stuck

[Asha]

i have come over from wc to here. i have always appreciated the sound and wise advice from the ladies over there and i am glad many of you are over here.

i really don't know what to do about my marriage. first, let me give a brief overview of it for most of you who are unfamiliar. we were married amost two years ago. there weren't any major fights before hand. actually, i was more of the fighter and screamer, but shortly before we were married i realized that was not a respectful way to be and i basically stopped my screaming and cursing. fh, at the time, really didn't have any disagreements about the way i conducted my life before we were married. he did say i would have to be more careful with money, but i agreed with that and since we have been married have stopped a lot of frivoulous spending. we even had discussions about where his in-laws would live bc i knew that a lot of indian men want to live with their parents when they are married. i told him i would only be comfortable with that situation if we had a two family house and they lived in one apartment or we bought a house with a lot of land and built a cottage for them. he agreed to this before we were married. about two months after the marriage he became a different person. about every two weeks he would get into rages over really small things. he would curse at me, say he didnt' love me and constantly threaten to leave me. one time he actually walked out of the car when we were driving and went missing for several hours. he has never hit me in these rages. twice he has pushed me but really lightly. each and every time he would fly into these rages my heart would break and i felt worthless, helpless, and lonely. he still blames me for these fights and says that i make him do this. he will say he is sorry. but when we talk about them when we are not mad he says i make him do it bc i of my behavior. for about a year he was living in maryland for work, but he started this behavior before he moved and he still continues it since he has moved back. he has cut back on them. i used to beg him to not leave when he did this, but now i just say i want a divorce too and sometimes initiate that comment.

he also belittles and seems to not care for the things i care about. mind you i have really not changed about the things i have cared about since we were married. after we were married he would crititcize my job as a teacher saying i didn't make enough money and would be disappointed with me when i would work extra hours for no extra pay. so, i decided to pursue my phd in an education related field so i could earn more money and it is something i wanted to do, but honestly i wouldn't mind teaching again in the future if that's what my life led to. he thinks that's an awful choice to be a teacher. he has since decided he want his parents to move in. i have decided that it would be ok once we have kids so they can help out, but he wants them to move in now and is making me feel guilty bc that's not what i want. he gets irritated when i am out with my friends (not that often -every couple of weeks).

he has become a workaholic. he works 6-7 days a week 12 hrs a day. yes, we want to save for our future, but he wants everything now and isn't willing to wait patiently. he makes 130k a year, and he says we don't have enough money for a second car for me meaning i have had to walk 20 minutes in sometimes below freezing weather to get to the subway station. i go around wearing clothes that i have had for many years. i have to fight with him if i want anything for the house. we need a dining room table to fit our families, and i am working extra hours so i can pay for it myself bc he doesn't want to use his money for it. mind you i don't want a super expensive table either. also, in the past 3 months he has spent 12k on things he has wanted to spend his money on.

so every time he fights with me like this i feel like my heart has broken until now i feel like i don't have much heart left for him. it is really sad to me, but i have started envisioning my life without him. i have started making plans for how i will support myself if we were to be apart. i do still love him, but i don't think i love him as much as i did when we were married.

by the way, he is not willing to go to counseling. i have asked him several times. he says he thinks its a waste of time and money. i don't want this marriage to end, but i don't want to live my life like this. i just don't know what to do.

[camberne]

I'm so sorry that you're in this position. It's never a place we ever expect to find ourselves in. Rather than offer advice, I would just ask you to ask yourself these questions:

* Are you willing to be treated the way you are now, for the next 20 years?

* Are you willing to let your children grow up in a household where they will see you being treated this way?

I wish you the best of luck. Honestly. I think everyone deserves respect and happiness, but you have to be willing to make tough choices sometimes.

[Asha]

camberne - no, this is not the way i want to be treated ever and definitely not for the next 20 years. i don't want my children to see me being treated this way. i have actually thought about this and believe my children would be upset to see me being unappreciated and yelled at like this. though, he never does this in front of anyone we know so i am sure he would hide it from them too. thank you for listening to me.

******

right now, he is becoming obsessed to with earning more money and trying to think of ways to become richer. i think that is not a bad thing but it is something he talks about non-stop and is always on his mind. he works non-stop to make money. whenever i ask him to do things together he says we either don't have the time or money. i do believe in working hard but i think there is a point when it becomes extreme. i truly believe in appreciating today bc tomorrow is not guarenteed. he is focus is more on the future.

right now i am feeling deceived. a lot of him has changed. he was never this way before we were married. we used to go out and have fun. he was never a workaholic before. he never yelled at me like this.

[Cricket4]

[QUOTE=rebjc] but i don't think i love him as much as i did when we were married.QUOTE]

You really HAVE started imagining your life without him, as I think you didn't even realize you phrased this as though your marriage was in the past tense.

Obviously something has gone out of your marriage, or you wouldn't talk like that. I wish I had brilliant advice, but I only have support. Hearing what you said made me feel so depressed, and I can only imagine what it must be like to be in your shoes. I really grieve for you.

Being careful with money is fine, and can be a great thing, but if he is spending money on things frivolous things for himself while shaming you into buying nothing that you would like to have, that is unfair. It brings to mind the WC thread with the gal and her violin. Either your husband is SAVING, or he isn't, but buying 12K worth of fun stuff for himself isn't saving. He can't just make cuts in the budget where the things YOU loved used to be. That shows as much disrespect as anything else he's been doing to you.

I wish I could tell you what has happened to him, why he seems to have stopped treating you with love and tenderness. It sounds like if you suggested counseling, he would blow you off.

I think you ought to seek individual counseling, of course. I know that can be a pat response, but I feel that it will really help. When he screams and rages and says he wants a divorce, you need to learn how to say "I would hate to see it come to that. I want to have a good relationship with you. I love you." Because it sounds like you WOULD like to have a good relationship with him. If you could wave a magic wand, and bring back the DH of the past, you wouldn't leave him. So, ideally, you'd RATHER have a good relationship than leave him, but you don't feel like you have the power to change it yourself. But counseling might help you find ways to approach him that could break him down, unlock a door between you. And if it doesn't work, then counseling will point you down the right path you need to take to go in another direction. It will be a sounding board for you.

I wish you so so so so much luck. Please come here and update us on how things are going, because I'll be thinking about you.

[Asha]

cricket - thanks for your advice. i agree that i do need to go to individual counseling for myself. i meant to say that i don't think i love him as much as when we first were married. well, his 12k really wasn't all for frivoulous things. it was giving money to relatives, buying exercise equipment, and doing "shady" business ventures. i just makes me so mad bc we could have bought a car with that money. those were all unnecessary expenses. i completely remember the thread with the violin lady. i totally sympathized with her and posted on her thread. yes, i agree with you that i want to be with the old him. sometimes the old him is there but a lot of times i feel like i am with living with a stranger. actually, i sometimes don't feel like i am living with him bc he is gone so much. a lot of times i feel like a single person. oh, and he isn't always tempermental. sometimes he is the complete opposite and very attentive, cuddly, and loving. if he were horrible all the time i think my decision would be easy.

you know what i will go online now and search for a therapist who takes my insurance.

[artist]

Hi. First of all, glad to see you here!

But, sorry to hear about everything that's been going on. I just sent you an e-mail too in case you felt like talking more privately.

I don't know. If he won't even get counseling and he is blaming you for any problems, it doesn't sound too hopeful. If were at least willing to seek counseling, I might see it otherwise. It sucks, because I know you obviously love him. Plus you guys bought that cool place recently.

But, as others said, is it worth it to spend years of your life feeling like this? Probably not. I agree about the individual counseling. At the very least, if you do decide to leave, you will have someone to talk to.

My only concern for you is since you have recently decided to do grad school, would you be able to support yourself if you got divorced? Also, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't it complicated to get a divorce in NY? Not saying you shouldn't do it, but I am concerned about those details as I am sure you must be too!

[lawyerlee]

oh, and he isn't always tempermental. sometimes he is the complete opposite and very attentive, cuddly, and loving. if he were horrible all the time i think my decision would be easy.
Even people who mistreat their spouses the most are loving to them sometimes. You wouldn't have picked him or stayed this long if he didn't have good qualities. Life isn't that black and white. It doesn't have to be black and white for you to deserve to be treated better. I find the behavior you have described incredibly abusive. And if he won't work to change that behavior, I don't see how you can stay in this kind of marriage. I hope you will follow through with finding a therapist you can open up to, even if you don't find that person on the first shot. Please take care of yourself.

[Zelda Von Yitz]

You are dealing with three key issues here:

1-His temper and his belittlement of you: this is abuse. Period.

2-You've got a cultural issue to cope with. I don't see any way how you're going to come to a compromise about his family moving in with you: that's an accepted way of life to people in certain cultures. If you say no, it's likely he'll insist yes and there will not ever be a compromise.

3-You also cannot agree on how money is spent: he spent twelve grand on items HE wanted?! Are you positively sure that you know where this money went and on what?

And even if you do indeed know where that money went? Spending twelve grand on things that he demanded is still wrong. That's flagrantly pissing up money. (I'm wondering if this guy is having an affair or if this money went on something else he won't tell you about)

I don't think this guy is husband material nor is he father material. You're going to have to decide where you want to go from here. Good luck.

[artist]

well, his 12k really wasn't all for frivoulous things. it was giving money to relatives, buying exercise equipment, and doing "shady" business ventures.

"Shady" business ventures?

[Zelda Von Yitz]

"Shady" business ventures?

That is it exactly - I'd demand to know where the hell this money went. It is no longer *his* money and *your* money -- it is now *our* money.

That money could be between here and the moon.

[Sherb]

I agree with those who say that his behavior is abusive. Domestic violence is not just physical abuse or injuries; it is emotional and mental abuse. As a PSA, here is a checklist from the National DV hotline:

Are You in an Abusive Relationship? Relationship Quiz
Does your partner:

* Act extremely jealous of others who pay attention to you, or use jealousy to justify his/her actions?
* Control your finances, behavior and even whom you socialize with?
* Make you afraid by using looks, actions, and gestures like smashing things, destroying your
* property or displaying weapons?
* Threaten to kill you or commit suicide?
* Make all the decisions?
* Stop you from seeing or talking to friends, family or limits your outside involvement?
* Act like the abuse is no big deal, it’s your fault or even deny doing it?
* Threatens to kill your pets?
* Puts you down in front of other people, humiliates you, plays mind games and makes you feel as if you are crazy?
* Prevents you from getting or keeping a job?
* Takes your money or does not let you know about or have access to the family income?
* Threatens to take the children away?

Do you:

* Become quiet when he/she is around and feel afraid of making him/her angry?
* Cancel plans at the last minute?
* Stop seeing your friends and family members, becoming more and more isolated?
* Find yourself explaining bruises to family or friends?

If you answered yes to any of these questions, you may be involved in a relationship that is physically, emotionally or sexually abusive.

You may be in an emotionally abusive relationship if your partner:

* Calls you names, insults you or continually criticizes you.
* Does not trust you and acts jealous or possessive.
* Tries to isolate you from family or friends.
* Monitors where you go, who you call and who you spend time with.
* Does not want you to work.
* Controls finances or refuses to share money.
* Punishes you by withholding affection.
* Expects you to ask permission.
* Threatens to hurt you, the children, your family or your pets.
* Humiliates you in any way.

You may be in a physically abusive relationship if your partner has ever:

* Damaged property when angry (thrown objects, punched walls, kicked doors, etc.).
* Pushed, slapped, bitten, kicked or choked you.
* Abandoned you in a dangerous or unfamiliar place.
* Scared you by driving recklessly.
* Used a weapon to threaten or hurt you.
* Forced you to leave your home.
* Trapped you in your home or kept you from leaving.
* Prevented you from calling police or seeking medical attention.
* Hurt your children.
* Used physical force in sexual situations.

You may be in a sexually abusive relationship if your partner:

* Views women as objects and believes in rigid gender roles.
* Accuses you of cheating or is often jealous of your outside relationships.
* Wants you to dress in a sexual way.
* Insults you in sexual ways or calls you sexual names.
* Has ever forced or manipulated you into to having sex or performing sexual acts.
* Held you down during sex.
* Demanded sex when you were sick, tired or after beating you.
* Hurt you with weapons or objects during sex.
* Involved other people in sexual activities with you.
* Ignored your feelings regarding sex.

If you answered 'yes' to these questions you may be in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 or your local domestic violence center to talk with someone about it.

[tenofcups]

I think going to a therapist by yourself right now is probably the best thing you can do for yourself. When I started to realize that I didn't think I wanted to be with my ex-husband anymore, I started to go to a therapist on my own, in addition to the couples counseling we went to.

It was very helpful for me to have a place where I could say *anything* that I felt about my marriage. My friends and family were great, but there were times I didn't want to say too much--in case we did decide to stay together, I didn't want them to end up hating him forever because of things that I'd said.

The therapist didn't really "advise" me in any way--just asked questions sometimes and listened to what I was saying. (Although the day I came in and said that I was definitely leaving him, she did say she wondered why it had taken me so long to come to that conclusion!)

To respond to someone else's question about a divorce in NY--it's not hard, but there is no no-fault divorce. Which means that you either need to separate physically for a year and can then file for divorce without cause, or one or the other of you has to be the "plaintiff" and file for divorce with cause. In my case, my ex-husband and I together agreed that he could be the plaintiff and file on the grounds--ooh, I forget the official name, I think some sort of desertion--but it meant that we hadn't had sex in a year, which qualifies. Emotional and/or physical abuse can also be cause and I think there are one or two other reasons, but they all get "nasty." We were told that what we chose is what the majority of divorcing couples do in NY.

[Asha]

hi artist! glad to talk to you again. ok - shady business ventures are those, as you already know about, stupid pyramid "scams." i warned him many times about them, but he didn't believe me. not too, too much money went into them, but the point of those is that he didn't trust my knowledge to know that they were a bad thing. yes, i got really upset with him today about the graduate school thing. i told him the decisions we have made together have put me into a position where i couldn't support myself especially in nyc. he blurted out that he would give me half his salary, but that's not something i could count on. plus, we would have the issue of the house. i could never afford this place unless i were to get roommates. yes, it is very difficult to get a divorce in ny. there is no such thing as irreconcilable differences. you have to prove some sort of abandonment, abuse, or affair. though, i am not thinking that far ahead.

lawyerlee - i understand that people are not that black and white. actually, he never showed a tempermental side to him before we were married. we actually lived together for six months before we were married too. i am not saying he didn't show anything negative, but nothing severe.

zelda - regarding the issues 1) i used to speak to him the same way a couple of years ago. i feel it would be unfair of me not to give him a chance to improve his behavior because he stuck by me throught those times. since, he has shown self control before i believe he could return to his more respectful way of treating me. 2) i am really stuck on this one. bc i thought i prepared for this before marriage by making an agreement about his parents living arrangements. then he up and changed his mind. we did talk about some compromises about this such as going on monthly weekend getaways so we would have some private time. also, we would set up some ground rules about living spaces, visitors, house chores, etc... 3) we don't totally disagree about how money is spent. i am actually a pretty frugal person by nature, but he is much more so than me. i like how he has gotten me to think more about my future and think about how little things actually do add up. in fact, i do know exactly how his money was spent. i check our banking statements online and all money is accounted for. it is common among his family and friends to "borrow" large sums of money from each other. the thing is he never borrows from anyone, but they borrow from him. he did listen to me when he asked to give his brother several thousand dollars, and i told him no. his brother is totally irresponsible with his money and didn't really need the money. ------the thing is that he is already my husband, so, to me, it's not really a matter of being huband material.

******

several people have hinted at him having an affair. i find this completely unlikely. for one, he works non-stop, and i can account for where he is 99% of the time. i would have many more chances to have an affair than he does. plus, he is very reserved sexually, so i don't see that as something he would pursue. lastly, he is extremely practical. he would see this as a complete waste of his time and money since his main focus right now is to make a lot of money to save for our future.

also, i believe at giving him time to improve his behavior. we have had a very stressful marriage due to many factors outside of our marriage and i feel like that could be influencing his behavior. plus, i have not been perfect either so i need to try to improve the way i react to his behavior. i need to not cry so much bc that is completely counterproductive. and, i have to stop overreacting to his anger.

i can tell he is feeling very badly right now. he has called several times from work asking how i am. i don't really feel like talking to him right now, so i haven't really said much. i have literally done nothing all day bc i am so upset and confused.

[lawyerlee]

lawyerlee - i understand that people are not that black and white. actually, he never showed a tempermental side to him before we were married. we actually lived together for six months before we were married too. i am not saying he didn't show anything negative, but nothing severe.
I totally get that this behavior showed up after you were married. I just wanted to express to you that it doesn't have to be bad every single second of every minute of every day for it to be bad enough to qualify as abuse or something worth leaving. :)

[camberne]

I've been hesitant about this all day. The one thing that really keeps me from posting a lot is that I am unfamiliar with your cultural background and customs. Pathetic to say, I only know what I've seen on tv as far as Indian cultures.

I do give you credit for wanting to make your marriage work. There are so many people who give up so easily, and I love to see people work to make things work. Give him time... but not much. If he's not willing to go to therapy, that's just one more obstacle to overcome ~ because having that third party to mediate is a HUGE benefit. It doesn't even have to be a counselor, per se... maybe the person who married you?

Granted, you may have acted a similar way a few years ago during which he stood by you. This was pre-marriage and a time when you were finishing up school and maturing. Two wrongs don't make a right. The way you've described his behaviors are classic emotional abuse. And, in an almost textbook way, you take on a lot of the blame yourself. How are you supposed to react to being treated that way? Not well, I'll say. And being remorseful and loving after being abusive is a way for someone to manipulate you into not taking action.

I, again, wish you the best of luck.

[Asha]

sherb - thank you for the list. it was an eye opener.

tenofcups - yes, i know people in ny who do the same thing you did with your exhusband about your divorce. i hate the fact that you have to wait a year. i wouldn't want to put anything on record that could harm his future. right now, i am not at a place where i want to seriously consider divorce. we just had another fight this morning and i think it is best to think of things with a more level head.

lawyerlee-thanks for your support. ps. i like your user name - has a nice ring to it.

[Asha]

camberne - he is indian. i am not. i think this is where a lot of the problems are coming from. i think he views the way he is treating me as excellent compared to the way he has observed the wives being treated in his family. he actually grew up with his aunt and uncle and grandparents (not uncommon in india). his uncle physically abused his aunt and is/was an alcoholic. his grandfather sat at home and relaxed all day while his grandmother worked doing things around the house all day. he would never admit that this had an impact on him, but it must have. i think regardless of culture if someone was witness to abuse as a child that impacts their behavior in adulthood. another reason i want to give him a chance to improve.

[Zelda Von Yitz]

camberne - he is indian. i am not. i think this is where a lot of the problems are coming from. i think he views the way he is treating me as excellent compared to the way he has observed the wives being treated in his family. he actually grew up with his aunt and uncle and grandparents (not uncommon in india). his uncle physically abused his aunt and is/was an alcoholic. his grandfather sat at home and relaxed all day while his grandmother worked doing things around the house all day. he would never admit that this had an impact on him, but it must have. i think regardless of culture if someone was witness to abuse as a child that impacts their behavior in adulthood. another reason i want to give him a chance to improve.

This is expressly what I said: it is a cultural difference. And a VAST one.

Taking in the parents and ILs and siblings is accepted and common. So is letting the wife pull the entire load.

[camberne]

i think regardless of culture if someone was witness to abuse as a child that impacts their behavior in adulthood. another reason i want to give him a chance to improve.This is why I am very vehement on this particular cause. My father was abusive to my mother and then it filtered eventually down to my older brother. My early childhood memories consist of deciphering my fathers moods from day to day (feelings that I can still, to this day, recall) to determine if we could be a family or if we should spend the evenings in our rooms and spending nights on the benches at the magistrate's office when mom finally decided that enough was enough. Because of my childhood, I was a founding "consultant" of our local Domestic Violence Task force which was finally established here 15 years ago (I was the only adult survivor of a domestic violence situation to respond to the call), and I was for many years a court victim's advocate, which my mother and her friend established after her experiences in the system ~ someone who accompanied abused women to court to testify against their husbands. I've seen nearly all there is to see.

Just please realize... it takes a strong woman to stay and weather the storm in hopes that it will get better, but it takes a stronger woman to leave an abusive relationship.

Okay, now I'll leave you be. But I'll be keeping tabs... please keep us posted.

[Asha]

thanks camberne and zelda!

[tenofcups]

rebjc--Just wanted to be sure that it's clear I'm not necessarily advocating therapy as a stopping point on the way to divorce. I just think it can be helpful to have someone to speak with and help you sort out your thoughts--whether that leads to staying with him or leads to not staying with him.

(And just wanted to add that I, too, was not willing to have anything in our divorce papers that could come back and bite either one of us in the ass at some future point. I still can't think of the name of what we finally settled on, but whatever it was, I couldn't think of any way that it could harmful for either one of us to have it in our records that we didn't have sex for a year. I believe that the other possible reasons all could be harmful when applying for certain jobs or if certain future situations come up.)

[Asha]

tenofcups- ita with you.

[lawyerlee]

lawyerlee-thanks for your support. ps. i like your user name - has a nice ring to it.
Thanks! :)

I hope you'll be able to keep sharing with us as time goes on, if it is helpful to you. I know we'd all like to give you someone to lean on if we can. :)

[Zelda Von Yitz]

I went thorough a cultural difference with my xH. (he was Hispanic) The fallout from the cultural difference and situtations that resulted, thanks to the cultural difference, is one of the reasons why I divorced him.

A friend of mine has been putting up with a cultural difference, also -- Mary has been seeing Ray for nearly eight years.

Ray's father is Dutch and still lives in the Netherlands; the dad still comes here several times a year for extended visits with Ray, even though the dad's very ill with advanced lung cancer

The dad cannot stand Mary. Why? Because Mary is divorced with three kids.

The dad has given strict orders that whenever he is in the States, Mary is not allowed to put one foot in that house (the dad is half owner of the house). And what does Ray do? Why, he complies. What Daddy says goes.

The dad has been beyond mean to Mary in thought, word and deed. Oh, yeah: he has given strict orders that Mary's not even allowed to the funeral or wake when he dies.

Ray's sis Terry got married. Guess who was not invited? That's right...Mary. Ray went without her.

I'd have been LIVID if a SO pulled that shit on me. The buck was passed hither thither and yon between the sis, Ray and the dad *why* Mary was not allowed to attend. C'mon: it's as plain as the proverbial nose on yr face: the dad disallowed it!

Mary puts up with this crap because I'm convinced her self esteem's too low to tell Ray to take a high colonic and a hike.

Ray and Mary aren't exactly a couple of youngsters: Ray is 51 years old. And yep...veery eenterestink to note that he has never been married.

[claribella]

Hmmm....

This reminds me of how my marriage was. in fact when I was on WC I posted that WHILE I was 6 months pregnant my husband and I got in an arguement, he made me mad so I threw a book in his general direction not hitting him. He flew in to a rage and grabbed my arms (I was 6 months pregnant) and wasn't allowing me to leave the room. It all calmed down but it was a sign.

I posted this on the WC and all those great ladies told me "LEAVE LEAVE LEAVE" but I gave excuses, I said "well I started it" and such like that.

Anyway, we are divorced. I left him two months after I had our baby. He was a heartless, grumpy mean person who hates life and now hates me. I should have listened to all the wonderful WC ladies advice and left him RIGHT THEN AND THERE.

But the reason I am relaying this story is cuz I don't think, from the vibe I get from your post, that you wanna live like that the rest of your life feeling your heart die, as you said. My heart was dying too, my ex took all the fun out of me cuz he took the fun out of everything.

Just remember who you are and what you want and you will make the right decision. I know I didn't help much but I just want you to know I know where you are coming from

[kmtiger]

I just wanted to reply and try to give you some support, too.

I got divorced last year and a lot had to do with his mother. She completely controlled everything he did and said. We "had" to buy a house down the street, "had" to make her dinner most nights, "had" to do her grocery shopping, etc. Mind you, this woman was about 55...not exactly old and feeble by any means.

I tell you this because I woke up one day and realized I couldn't live the next 25 years like that. I was a miserable person to be around. Now, that doesn't mean we didn't try. We went to counseling, but it didn't work for us. BUT, that's not to say it won't help you. I think individual counseling may be called for here for you. It will help you to reassess yourself and your strengths. It certainly did for me.

Please keep your head up and try to stay positive!

[jbenny75]

I, like Camberne, grew up witnessing physical abuse and experiencing emotional abuse. When I hear you say he says it's your fault, that makes alarms go off in my brain. It's also very wrong of him to give money away to family and waste it on pyramid schemes while you are walking in freezing weather because he won't buy you a car. He thinks everything's your fault and won't go to counseling? Run, don't walk.....away from him or at least to counseling for yourself.

[Zelda Von Yitz]

I tell you this because I woke up one day and realized I couldn't live the next 25 years like that. I was a miserable person to be around. Now, that doesn't mean we didn't try.

We all tried. *sigh* Whether we tried valiantly to do something about this ourselves or you tried as a couple.

Consider yourself lucky: my xH wouldn't even go to counseling. He flat out refused.

[Reebs]

Hi rebjc. I'm so sorry to hear about your problems. I guess I'm posting because I have had similar experieces with regards to the money/job issue.

My DH will yell at me about how I don't make enough money and how I should work for a private firm (I'm a lawyer for the Government) and I would make more money. He will spin it around though and say that I'm not getting paid what I'm worth. But in the next breath he'll say how disappointed he is that I'm not a "go-getter" and he thought before we were married that I was going to be more ambitious. And I would tell him that I do not want to work 100 hours a week and have no life. As it is now I commute 3 hours a day and work 8-9 hours and that's enough.

But he constantly makes comments how I have to stop spending. How I buy too much food at the grocery store and we end up throwing it away. He does make more money than I do, because he receives very large bonuses, so it is his belief that since he makes more he can do whatever he wants with "his" money.

For instance. He had a 2003 Tahoe with about 30000 miles on it. On a whim he goes to the Chevy dealer and buys a 2005 Tahoe with all the bells and whistles. Now I have a 2003 Saab with 68000 miles that is falling apart because I commute so far every day. He commutes 10 minutes to work. Wouldn't you think if anyone should get a new car, it should be me? Not in his book. So we have to spend all this extra money but the next day he'll complain about my spending and how we have no money.

He makes me feel guilty for not making more. He makes comments about my law school loans that I am paying back, that basically he feels he shouldn't be paying them, I should.

Sorry for rambling, but I guess I just wanted to say I feel for you with regards to the money stuff. And I too hate how much he is into money. Now he wants to run for political office..even better right?

Again, sorry to hear, and if you ever need someone to listen I'm here.

R (hey maybe its something in our names..I'm guessing we have similar ones! :p )

[Asha]

zelda - thanks for your support and sticking around to see how i am doing. :) i feel badly for your friend mary. that is a similar thing to one of my ex bf's that i left. another cultural difference. he never even told his parents about me during the almost 2 years that we were together. also, it was so clear that he had not intentions of ever marrying me bc he knew his parents would not approve of marrying someone from a different culture/religion. he actually had the gall to say that he would like to stay with me even when he got married and keep me as a mistress. boy, i am glad that i was smart enought to get out of that one though it killed me to do it bc i was very much in love with him.

jbenny - well, he has agreed that he did indeed waste his money over the past few months. he has swore he won't give money away to relatives or friends unless we are settled and where we want to be in life. plus, he agreed to no more pyramid schemes. see below about some other comments you made.

kmtiger - that sounds like an awful experience you went through. at least, his parents are kind to me. once his father tried to tell me to turn off the lights bc we were wasting money on electricity. i told him i don't eat in the dark and i left them on. jagir didn't argue with me and told me that they were being a big ridiculous. also, he has agreed that he won't let his father just sit around and be lazy if and when they live with us. everyone will help with the house chores. yes, i have told jagir many times that his parents are not feeble nor elderly so they don't exactly need to live with us. it would be a totally different case if they were unable to take care of themselves.

claribella - thank you for your story. sounds like your ex like mine had difficulty dealing with your anger. yes, mine has difficulty having fun as well. he actually told me that i am the person who taught him to have fun. he is very serious most of the time.

*******

so, i talked with him last night about the situation. it was mostly me talking bc he didnt' really say much. i told him the way he is treating me is unacceptable and that i believe it is to be emotional abuse bc he is acting in hateful way and purposefully withholding affection and saying mean things to me. he then said if i am so abusive why are you staying with me. i told him bc i believe he could be a better person bc he was good to me before we got married. he then started blaming things on me. i said i am not responsible for the way he behaves. i told him it is his choice to behave in a disrespectful manner. then he starts talking about the morning how i was threatening him by being late for work. again, i had to repeat that he is still blaming his completely unacceptable behavior on my really trivial behavior. at that point he just walks out of the room. i follow him into the bedroom and say more basically saying how i want the old guy back and ask him why he changed. he basically shut off and didn't say anything at all. so i just decided to watch tv and drink a glass of wine to calm down. i fell asleep on the couch downstairs and slept through the night. actually, a good thing bc i don't think i would have slept through the night if i had slept with him. he was still grumpy in the morning, but i kinda just stayed clear of him. right before i dropped him off at work, he agreed that he will not yell or curse at me again. a step in the right direction. other things need to be improved by it might take baby steps. also, he mentioned that i should go upstate to the outlet mall and buy myself some clothes. i mentioned that we need to make a budget of our expenses, and he agreed. actually, he said that i should make it up and he will just look it over. i am going to wait until maybe october/november to broach the car issue bc i really don't mind walking in this weather. i think he won't have a problem with it bc i can just get a used car bc i won't be driving far - only to the train station.

i am going to start with counseling within the next month to clear my head and get advice. plus, i have a lot of other issues not including my husband that i need to deal with. right now, i am not ready to consider divorce especially since he just returned to living in ny again and we are going through an adjustment of trying to get used to living with each other again. i appreciate all of your advice. even if i am not taking all of it, i have listened to it and i respect and appreciate it. i am so grateful if have all of you to really listen to me.

[Asha]

hey reebs - wow- our husbands are very similar. are you a rebekah? well, i am. yes, my husband thinks my job as a teacher is a waste of my talent and i could be making a lot more money. i told him that i am doing a lot of good for the world, but he just says those kids are poor and their parents don't care about them so they will amount to nothing so i am just wasting my time. he got mad at me yesterday bc i wanted to go into school to prepare my classroom for summer school. he didn't understand it bc i wasn't going to get paid for it. let me say that i didnt' quit teaching bc of him. he did open my eyes that i could still be helping to make the world a better place and make more money. quite honestly, teachers cannot survive in ny on the pay they make. so, i decided to pursue my phd. my hope is that i will be in a position that i could still influence change in the educational system and make more money than i do now. he is ok with me having quit my job to pursue this especially since i got a scholarship so we don't have to pay any tuition costs and will hopefully make more money when i am finished. hey, i have a super long commute like you, but i take the subway so at least i can read or take a catnap. i totally can relate with you on the grocery store thing. he gets upset with wasted food. what i do is to make sure to clean out the fridge before he notices that we have a bit of rotten lettuce or spoiled milk. it's funny that our husband think we are not ambitious. my friends have always thought i was very ambitious and responsible. actually, i was/am one of the most established of my friends. i had my own apartment, never asked for money from my parents, didn't waste money on high end clothing, did well in school, had a steady job, etc.... oh well... i must admit though he is getting me to think about possibilities in my life that i had never dreamed of or thought were beyond my reach. i was kinda stuck in one place in my life, and we should always be trying to think of a bigger goal. i had reached the goals i had set in my life - teaching in nyc, buying a house, getting married, traveling... now, he has made me think of reaching higher goals and that is a good thing.

[Reebs]

Well I am actually a Rebecca. But close enough!!

I just don't get the obession with $$$. Well I do and I don't. Believe me, I love having money to spend. Its great. But I hate having to constantly hear about wanting more of it.

I think its wonderful you are pursuing your phd. And it sounds like you are doing it for you. In the end, its an even better thing because that is something no one can take away from you. DH can't claim it for himself. Its all your hardwork and effort that'll make it happen.

Funny about the friends and ambition because my friends/family has always called me ambitious as well. I immediately went on to law school after graduating college and worked part time and went to school. The thing that really irks me is when DH makes comments like I don't know the value of a dollar. Well buddy, tell me how you could pay $5000 a semester in tuition, commuting expenses, food, clothing (no shelter, I lived at home) on a part-time salary. I have always been very good at saving money. My Dad used to have to ask me for money!!

We, like you, are doing pretty well for our age. But I guess DH doesn't realize how much things cost. Now we have a house that needs furniture, stuff for the gardens, a lawn mower, all expenses we didn't have at our TH. But we'll make it, I know.

I think the phd will open a lot of doors for YOU!! remember to always keep yourself first (well almost always) because in the end, YOU are all you have.

[Asha]

hi rebecca!! wow, our husbands must be twins. jagir is totally fine with our place staying underfurnished, needing a paint job, and having no personality to it whatsoever. he is just happy to have a piece of property that he could build equity in. he really doesn't see it as a home. though, the other day i told him our house has no life. i said i liked my little studio apt better bc i had it filled with things i loved. all my friends who visited loved how i had decorated it and always said that it really showed who i was. and, i had used mainly hand me down things and decorated it with things i had collected over the years. now, jagir just wants blank walls. though, the other day i told him i felt like i was a visitor in my own home bc the place doesn't feel like me. i told him it felt heartless and empty. he told me that i should do whatever i feel like to the place and hang more things on the walls. i was glad to hear that bc he told me that he just likes blank walls. i do appreciate a minimalist look, but i feel like that requires very high end stuff and really doesn't suit my style anyways. yes, we are doing well for our age, too. though, jagir is a perfectionist so the thinks we could do better. yeah, i am excited about my phd. it would be so call that i would be dr. rebekah. plus, i know that i have the will power to do well in it. i am not going to give it up. really, i am not someone who quits on things.

[jbenny75]

Sounds like you are handling this well! Good for you for standing up for yourself!

[Asha]

so, i decided to do something that would make just me happy. i planted some flowers in a window flower box. i went and bought some flowers, cleaned out dead flowers and old soil and put in the new ones. now, it makes me happy to look at something i did for the house that i think is beautiful. i decided to make my own decision and just go and do it without informing my dh about it first.

[lawyerlee]

The flowers sound lovely. I'm glad you did something nice for yourself. :)

[dusthappy]

I am so sorry you are going thru this drama. But I have to add, abuse! This sounds like an abusive relationship to me. I am not just speaking out of my a$$, I have been there. An abusive partner always starts out very well behaved, considerate, loving. Then you marry, and things slowly start to change from good to worse, to awful.

I got married very young to my highschool sweetheart. We were totally in love, got along great. Never had any fights, or if we did, I instigated them. Shortly after the wedding, I started to see a lot of temper that I had never seen before. I rationalized it away: he is just upset because we don't have enough money. He is upset because of our living arrangement. So, I set out to change the things that he and I both agreed were causing the anger. I got a higher paying job. It wasn't good enough. I made arrangements for us to move. It wasn't good enough. Six months into the marriage, he started to call me hateful names when he was mad. It was always my fault. I could never figure out exactly how it was my fault, but it must be, or else he wouldn't be calling me a worthless whore, right?

He could buy whatever he wanted. Whole paychecks were gone in a matter of hours on HIS stuff. One day I bought a three dollar magazine, and he flipped his lid. How dare I spend money on something so trivial? How stupid could I be? Six months after that, he was throwing remote controls at my head. Because I needed to spend $50 bucks on a pair of shoes for work. I kicked him out. He left, but I decided to take him back. I commited to this marriage, and I was going to see it through, come hell or high water. His excuse for the throwing things and calling me names was that I was spending too much time with my friends. They were a bad influence. We moved again, this time two thousand miles away from friends or family. That is what he wanted. Then things got even worse. I couldn't spend more than $35 dollars on groceries a week. With a baby to feed and diaper, that was the limit. If I spent more, that loaf of bread was thrown at me and the baby. I couldn't have a car to drive. With a baby, living 6 miles from town. I had to consult him about everything. If what I cooked for dinner wasn't what he wanted, he would dump it out. It took six years, and by the end of that, I felt like I had no soul left. I had given my everything to him, and it was never good enough. I had no love for him, no love for myself, and barely the emotional and physical strength to walk from the bed to the bathroom. My children were suffering, I was beyond suffering, and I wished him dead. I just couldn't live like that, and I didn't wish that life for my kids.

I guess what I am trying to tell you is that your husband is abusive. While I admire your tenacity, imagine living this life for years, and see if you like who you are in that mental image. Abuse starts very subtly, and the abused are the ones who deny it the most adamantly. He loves me, it is my fault, and if I only did what he wanted when he wanted, everything would be roses. blech

I left while he was at work. I had $70 in my pocket, two kids with car seats, and one bag to check at the airport. I had no job, no home to go to, and was scared to death. The only thing that got me thru that three hour drive to the airport was the thought that being scared to death is a lot better than being dead. And to this day, I would rather be choked up against a wall than called names. The scars of emotional abuse last much longer than the actual physical abuse. Thank God my family loved me enough to purchase those tickets.

Look for a web site called verbalabuse.com I never realized how bad things were, and could escalate until I seperated myself from that life.

( I apologize for the length of this post )

[Zelda Von Yitz]

And cultural issues SUCK. Men that are not of Western culture treat their wives differently, period.

[Asha]

dusthappy - thanks for sharing your story. it still amazes me that these men can control themselves for a long period of time before marriage, and then all of the sudden switch once they get married to you. jagir, never had a temper at all before we were married. i agree with you that they act like two different people. jagir is many times very sweet, loving, and adoring. other times when he gets in a bad mood he ignores me, yells at me, curses, says hurtful things.

zelda - i believe you are right in a lot of cases. jagir recognizes that his father and mother aren't equals in their marriage. his mother never speaks up if she disagrees with something his father is doing. jagir is listening to me more and more when i have a different opinion.

*******

things have been improving since the last time i shared my story. after you all had told me that he was being abusive, i did let him know that the way he was treating me was unacceptable. i even told him i thought it was being abusive. i said if he was making me cry he was being very hurtful. i let him know that if things did not improve by x amount of time, we would agree on getting a divorce. we even discussed how we would split assets and everything.

now, i am not saying he is walking around happy as a clam. he still does get upset easily, but he does not say hurtful things to me or yell. i think he does have an issue with anger. i was watching dr. phil and there was this lady who displayed behavior very similar to jagir. he said that she had a problem with anger management, and her anger wasn't really about what her husband did, but it was about her not being happy with herself and there was something bigger that she is angry at. i think there are things that have hurt jagir badly in his past. for one, he is always slighted when it comes to gifts from his family. he was raised by grandparents and aunt and uncle, not uncommon in india, but i think it did have negative effect on him. he was a witness to his uncle physically abusing his aunt. this had to have been traumatic on him as a child. i have always wondered if he was abused either sexually or physically as a child. i even asked him that once, and he neither denied or confirmed it. he is of the mind that you should leave things that are in the past in the past. i know i am not a psychologist and i can't fix those things for him. i am going to read dr. phil's book and try to do some exercise in their with jagir.

we have been talking a lot more openly now. also, he has not criticized any of my spending habits for awhile now. for the first time i got a haircut and even splurged and got it colored, and he didn't even ask how much i spent on it. he even asked why i didn't get a facial too. we have finally agreed that i will get a car before the winter so i don't have to walk in the cold anymore. we are going to use the extra money to finally pay off my student loans. i did a budget online and let him know that we were spending far less money than most people of our income level, and that gave him a wake up call that indeed i was not spending too much money. we are even going to see a financial planner together so we can have a mediator to help us agree on how to spend our money. i have made a point of getting together with friends at least once a week. he did mention that i seemed to be getting together with my friends a lot, but i said that if he is going to be working all the time i needed to socialize, and so i was going to spend time with my friends. also, i don't think it's bc he doesn't want me to spend time with other people, he just worries about me spending too much money on going out to lunch, etc. he didn't criticize it after i calmly explained it to him.

thank you again for everyone being supportive and listening to me. i appreciate and respect everyone's opinions.

[nylons73]

Hey there Rebekah -
I'm just now seeing this thread or you know I would have been in here, lending you my support, earlier! However, jumping in 'late' has given me the opportunity to read what the others have posted and wow! we have some really strong women (including yourself) on this site! I want to say to dusthappy - that I so appreciate you sharing your story. There are many women reading this who might be in a similar situation and you might have just given them a way out and a way up! Kudos to you!!

Ok, now after reading everyone's post, I think Cricket said it best:
I think you ought to seek individual counseling, of course. I know that can be a pat response, but I feel that it will really help. When he screams and rages and says he wants a divorce, you need to learn how to say "I would hate to see it come to that. I want to have a good relationship with you. I love you." Because it sounds like you WOULD like to have a good relationship with him. If you could wave a magic wand, and bring back the DH of the past, you wouldn't leave him. So, ideally, you'd RATHER have a good relationship than leave him, but you don't feel like you have the power to change it yourself. But counseling might help you find ways to approach him that could break him down, unlock a door between you. And if it doesn't work, then counseling will point you down the right path you need to take to go in another direction. It will be a sounding board for you.

Ok, now you know I am a counselor, so I frequently praise counseling, but I really do think that what Cricket wrote is right on the money.

Everyone has to live their own truth. I don't know if you should fight for your marriage, hang in there, or look for a way out. However, I do know that seeing a counselor will help you to discover your truth and discover what is the best choice for you. I know that you have already posted that you are open to seeking individual therapy and I am really happy to read that fact. Make sure you find someone who you feel helped by. And, if you don't, go to someone else! There are many different counselors and many different 'styles' of counseling. What works with one client, might not work with another, and sometimes it takes a while to find a therapist who uses a style that is totally right for you!

And I want to comment on the 'teaching' thing. As you know, I am a school counselor. Every one of my cousins on my father's side (my father being the non-Western part of my parents) is a doctor or PhD. I am neither. This has caused much hurt to me over my 32 years of life. I have been called 'nothing' and 'worthless.' I married a good old American boy, who thinks that I am worthy and what I am doing is wonderful and is changing the world. He doesn't care if I make 200 dollars an hour or 2. ;) Point of me telling you that is this - no matter what anyone tells you, and no matter how much you bring home in your paycheck - YOU ARE MAKING A DIFFERENCE IN THE WORLD AND DO NOT EVER FORGET IT!

What you are doing in your career is truly life-changing. Without you, so many kids would never even have the chance to see beyond their surroundings and reach for the brass ring. You are a very important link in the American Dream for these kids and without you, some of them might never see what they can be! Don't give it up if you truly love it. Sure, you will never make $100,000 a year. (neither will I) But, both of us will have the satisfaction of coming home at the end of a day and saying "I did something for the world today." And you know what, we will be right! :) :D

BIG BIG BIG Hugs to you! I so want to come by right now and take you to lunch, but we're a little far apart. One day I hope we will make that happen!

Nayla

[kris97]

I don't have much to add that hasn't already been written, just that I am so happy things seem to be improving, and that I continue to root for you guys. :)

[GeekGirl]

Hi, Rebekah! I'm a Rebecca, too! :D

I also seemed to jump onto this thread a little late. I am an abuse survivor, and I must admit, after your first couple of posts, I was ready to fly to NYC and string your DH up by his toenails, LOL! However, after reading all 5 pages through to your most recent posts, I am glad to see that happy endings come in many different forms - and I offer congratulations that yours is enabling you to work through your DH's difficulties together.

Keep us updated, hey?

[Asha]

nayla - thanks for your advice. i forgot that you're a counselor. now, i want to go to a counselor that doesn't just listen. many of my friends go to therapy and seem to just talk to their counselor and the counselor doesn't say much. i don't want that. i want someone who will offer me strategies that i can utilize and maybe even some behavior management techniques (oooh - i am sounding like a school teacher) i can use with jagir. is there a name for that kind of therapist/therapy, so when i search around for a counselor i can ask what kind of therapy they use.

kris - thanks!!

rebecca - thank you. yes, you are not the only one to have that gut reaction with jagir.

[HeatherFL]

I haven't read everyone elses replies yet, but I have personal experience with this. I dated a man for two years who seemed sweet and wonderful and then as things progressed would go into rages. It started out with him yelling and cursing. Then it got much worse. The physical abuse began and while it seems it would have been easier to leave, it got harder. You wrote that your husband has already pushed you twice-even if lightly-he still put his hands on you. That is the stepping stone to much worse.

I encourage you to seek counseling on your own and as much as it may hurt, to move on with your life.

I wish you the best of luck. Please take good care of yourself. I am going to come back to check on you.

Heather

[gayle]

ITA with Heather
"You wrote that your husband has already pushed you twice-even if lightly-he still put his hands on you. That is the stepping stone to much worse.
"

I too was in an abusive relationship for 4 years. Every problem, issue or frustration he had in his own life was somehow my fault. His abusie escalated from verbal, to pushing, to throwing things, to one night attempting to strangle me, and when I bolted to get out of our apt he caught me and forcibly slammed me in a door and broke my left shoulder.


Well that was utterly the end for me, but in retrospect, the end should have come much sooner. Abuse is insidious, we find ourselves having higher tolerances, and putting up with so much more than we ever should. Kind of like the frog and boiling water story. That being if you put a frog in a pot of water, as the temperature rises the frog will do nothing to escape, because it doesn't realize the tremperature is increasing, and, that it's very life is in danger.

Also, based on that, what now feels "better" to you, may not even be close to acceptable behaviour.

This may sound harsh, but knowing what I know now, I would seperate from him, and agree to work on the marriage from a bit of a distance. He sounds like he has serious anger management issues, and trust me, that can be a time bomb just waiting to go off. Counseling even has the potential to make his anger escalate, as it can make him feel out of control.

I am sorry if I am not being more supportive of your staying with him, but the truth is, unless he is truly willing (and proves it) to take the journey to REAL self exploration, and ownership of being an abuser, not much will actually change. Oh, he may go throgh the motions, he may tell you that he is willing (this is very common), but unless you see him taking on the REAL work of this, he won't change.

I feel deeply for you, but number one, protect yourself, and don't wait.

[nylons73]

Rebekah-
The therapy that you are looking for (most probably) is 'Reality Therapy.' It was started by William Glasser. If you talk to a therapist and they ascribe to the teachings of Glasser, you're probably on a good track. (this is the theory that both Dr. Phil and I use, but I'm not quite as loud as Dr. Phil! heh heh)

The basic premise of Glasser therapy or 'Reality' Therapy is to figure out why we make the personal choices that we do and how we can go about doing something different. (behavior management techniques, as you so eloquently put it) Glasser focues on 1. Identifying the problem(s). 2. Figuring out what contributes to the problem(s) in one's life and 3. making a plan to change the way that life is lived in order to alleviate the problem(s) of the individual. I love the 'making a plan' part of this therapy. It makes me feel like I am really helping people (by helping them to make a plan) than just listening and saying 'oh, ah, um.'

If a counselor tells you that they are a fan of 'Reflective' or 'Rogerian' therapy (started by Carl Rogers) RUN! ;) This is the therapy you see lampooned all of the time (on South Park and other places.) This therapy consists of the counselor letting the client talk, and talk, and talk. The counselor is only supposed to act like a 'mirror' and 'reflect' the client's feelings back on to the client. This is how you end up with exchanges like:

Client-"My daughter is stealing out of my purse, my son is failing the 8th grade and my husband is never home."
'Reflective' Counselor - "Tell me, how do you feel about that?"
Client - I feel really angry! I feel confused! I feel sad!
'Reflective' Counselor - "So what I'm hearing is that you are feeling angry, confused and sad. "
Client! - "Yes!"
'Reflective' Counselor - "Why don't you tell me a little bit more about that."
Client- "Well, i just don't know what to do. I feel kind of lost. "
' Reflective' Counselor - "So what I am hearing is, you are feeling lost."
Client - "YES!"
'Reflective' Counselor - "Why don't you tell me a little bit more about that."

I am sure you can imagine the rest of the therapy session, without me having to go into it. :rolleyes: It might work for those who just need to talk things out with themselves, but I find it pretty ineffective. If you talk to a counselor and they identify themsleves as primarily 'Rogerian' or 'Reflective' in theory - be afraid! heh heh Ok, don't be afraid but I would recommend Reality Therapy to meet the needs you've expressed.

I think that Gayle and Heather have posted some very powerful personal stories. I would like to personally say thanks to both of them for sharing!

[Asha]

heather and gayle - thank you for sharing your experiences. i am sorry that you had to go through them, and i commend you for making the best choices for yourselves. your advice has certainly given me a lot to think about. i am not ready to make such a drastic move. also, my dh does actually treat me very affectionately and well when he is not in a bad mood. he is very affectionate, complimentary, loving, and giving most of the time. part of me has started to think he is just not a happy person in general. i am starting to think each and every time he makes a next step in his life he thinks it is going to make him happy. i think the first thing he did was marrying me. i suppose he thought that would be a fix for him and make him happy. then, i think it was getting a full time job. after that, was the house. now, i know he is still not happy inside of himself. he says, now, that having his parents move in will make him happy. i know i am not at fault for making him unhappy. happiness is found within. people who are truly happy make the best of whatever situation they are in.

[mrsfromage]

Rebekah,
I admire how hard you are trying to make your marriage work...you seem like a really lovely person. But I will second the others that I am concerned that you are not getting enough freedom in your marriage; it is scary to think of your DH being too controlling. Please take good care of yourself too. Wishing you the best.

[Zelda Von Yitz]

he says, now, that having his parents move in will make him happy.

I don't know whether this guy is using his "unhappiness" to emotionally blackmail you or what -- remember, also, parents living with a couple is accepted and pretty much a requisite in certain cultures.

I think the time has come for you to think about YOURSELF and what makes YOU happy. How long does this guy expect you to pander to him and build your life around whether or not he's happy or not?

Also consider he can't handle money at all -- that's bad news in itself.

[HeatherFL]

I used to make excuses too. I can't tell you what to do and I can't even say that I don't understand where you're coming from. I just see all of the signs and excuses being made for him. I used to do the same thing.

I think the time has come for you to think about YOURSELF and what makes YOU happy. How long does this guy expect you to pander to him and build your life around whether or not he's happy or not?

I completely agree!

I hope that you will concentrate on you. I wish you the best of luck.

~H.

[Irish Elf]

Most of my decisions are basd on what makes my partner happy. And DH feels the same way. It ends up we make ourselves happy AND each other happy. Rarely has his need for happiness caused me to be unhappy. Unfortunately that's what i see happening to you in this relationship. Every negative step your DH takes is about him seeking happiness. At what point are you going to stop and tell him that his contining happiness quest is making you unhappy? When is he going to put your happiness above his?

I commend you for wanting to make your marriage work. And from what you have written he *seems* to be working at it but even his attempts aren't that great. Has he accounted for the $12,000 or admitted he shouldn't have spent the money without discussing it with you? has he discussed his parents living arrangement with you or is it a done deal - they are moving in so he will be happy?

I hope his change of heart is true and not a ploy to kep you there. take care of yourself and I'll keep you in my thoughts.

[Zelda Von Yitz]

Any relationship is a two way street: the onus shouldn't be on you to see if he's happy and if he's satisfied.

This will be a lifetime of walking on eggs.

[dusthappy]

I am sorry, I just hear that he is most of the time loving and affectionate, and think, they are all like that. The reason why abused women stay is for those good times. And when things are bad, we have all said the things you are saying. He is doing better, he will get better again....

I truly hope he is sincere in his attempts. I know how heartwrenching it is to see that it is just a facade.

[gayle]

"This will be a lifetime of walking on eggs."

Yep, and that is not a good place to have to live.

It's not your job to make him happy. He has to find that within himself. Whether or not he is nice most of the time, Iagree with you, he doesn't seem happy or satisfied in himself, but, you are not responsible for that, nor can you "fix" him.

I am very co-dependent and I always believed that I could "fix" people and situations, and even (I must have thought I was God, LOL) make them happy.

One of the most difficult walks I ever had to take was to take a good look at that in myself. I had to ask myself, what was I REALLY getting out of choosing abusers?

The answer was of course, that for me, attempting to fix people gave me a sense of self worth. If I could make an unhappy person happy, then I was pretty special.

It took years for me to work through this. Lots of therapy, a divorce, a broken shoulder, and great pain and angst on a daily basis. But, the good news is somewhere along the line, I got it, and realized I was worth more than that, and (big concenpt for me) I DESERVED to have love and be treated with kindness and respect.

I am now married to a man who is the exact opposite of the abusers I seemed so drawn to for many years. He is always kind, even when angry (and sure, he is human and gets mad) he treats me with respect and love.

The best thing is I am never afraid, ever. I know this man deeply loves me, and even when I piss him off, it shows.

Abusers keep you questioning, on edge, and constantly in judgement of yourself.

I respect that you want to make your marriage work, I am however cautioning you to examine it, and yourself deeply. And, if there isn't REAL imnprovement in how he treats you, that you maintain enough strength and self worth to leave.

Meanwhile I would HIGHLY recommend that you buy and read this book.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/sim-explorer/explore-items/-/1558505822/0/101/1/none/purchase/ref%3Dpd%5Fsxp%5Fr0/104-3694030-9439168

It was a HUGE eye opener for me, and also gives you sound methods for dealing with verbal abuse.

[Asha]

i am really touched by how so many of you are coming in to offer your wisdom. so, do you think it is never possible for someone to change. i know it is impossible to change someone, but what if someone is determined to change themselves?

gayle - i really respect your advice. i have noticed your posts for a couple of years now, and you seem to have it together. plus, i noticed how you and your dh look so happy together. i will check out that book at the bookstore. i think you are right about me. i do like to help people out. i guess, that's why i am a teacher. though, i have a gut instinct about danger, and i will know if i am in danger, and i will leave. i have been in potentially dangerous situations before, and i have always had an instinct that i needed to get myself out. i have been doing a lot of thinking in the past few weeks, and it is not something that i am shoving to the side.

irish elf - he has admitted that he thought it was wrong of him to spend so much money. we have talked about it, and he recognizes the carelessness.

dusthappy - i agree with you about abusive relationships. nothing can be all bad.

heather - i am concentrating more on me. i am determined to get together with friends at least once a week, now. also, i have started picking up enjoyable hobbies like reading that kinda fell by the wayside. also, i am trying to keep up with my appearance more, though, i never did that much to begin with because i am pretty low maintenance to begin with.

mrs fromage - thank you.

zelda - thank you for your continued advice.

[artist]

Hey. It sounds like you are taking some good steps to take care of yourself. Can a person change? Well, maybe. But be aware of things and don't put up with crap. I think the counseling will help you make the right decisions. It would be better if he were in counseling too though. Whatever happens, I hope you will be okay. You deserve happiness.

[Zelda Von Yitz]

Like I said, I put up with a similar situation, also, in my marriage: he was Hispanic and there was a sizable cultural issue there. And that cultural issue is part of what killed my marriage.

They are nigh impossible to breech; like I said, this is an accepted way of life to the person of that culture.

[Asha]

artist - thanks for your well wishes. btw, i can't seem to figure out how to access your lj. i haven't been ignoring you. help!!! come visit my cc journal when you get a chance.

zelda - ita with you on the cultural differences. this is one of the things i admit that i was very naive about before marriage. i should have considered this more closely. though, i think it would have been difficult to predict bc the dynamics changed when we became married. also, culturally his behavior is considered ideal not abusive at all.

[artist]

This link should work for my livejournal...

http://www.livejournal.com/users/artist_wc/

Where is your CC journal?

[artist]

Oh, and sorry I missed your call that one day! I think I was at the store, and in the 10 minutes I was gone, you had called. Oh well.

[Asha]

kristin - my cc journal is under the journal section with r's and some other letters. though, more easily i have a link to it in my siggy.

[mkredhead]

I agree with the other posters who said that something that is seemingly small can escalate into a much bigger, and much more dangerous situation. My former husband was Hispanic (still is!), and although we had cultural differences that were inherent, his anger management issues were the problem. He didn't worry about spending - he bought anything he wanted. I tried to make up for it by not spending money on anything, but that wasn't enough. He would blow up over the smallest things, refuse to attend family functions, complain whenever I was commended at work or promoted (I was "working too hard/too many hours/etc." when I should be at home, sitting on my keester not excelling), bitch about me going out with friends, etc. He did everything in his power to make me feel like less of a person - like this was as good as it could get, and I was wrecking the best relationship of my life. :rolleyes:

He was never physically abusive, but the emotional abuse was almost worse. I didn't feel like I could tell anyone what was happening for fear they would give me the whole, "I'm sure it's not that bad" response. I thought that I was overreacting and tried to talk myself into believing that.

When I finally decided I couldn't take it anymore , I decided to leave. To this day, I haven't told anyone how things were behind our closed doors. After some of the very public cases where husbands overreacted violently (specifically Lori Hacking), I am thankful I'm still here and typing this message.

Emotional abuse is very difficult because there aren't any visible marks. However, the outcome and results can be life threatening.

Please continue to take time for yourself. See a counselor personally if you can. Write in a private journal. Get a pedicure and take that time in the massage chair to think about things.

We're here for you! Hang in there and use the wisdom and experiences of the ladies here for support. :)

Happiness,
mkredhead

[Cat Bride]

before i met dh i was in a very emotionally abusive relationship and i was in total denial. my then bf was asian and i'm white. we had a lot of cultural clashes but i was determined to make it work because i was coming out of a failed marriage. bf spend money on himself, never me because i didn't deserve it. in the two years we were together he never got me a b-day, christmas or v-day gift. he was very competive/controling and would belittle me when i got a job promotion or when i graduated from college. he isolated me from my friends and my volunteer organizations. it was the most horrific, draining 2 years of my life that took many years of counseling to help me heal and rebuilt. you have 2 choices, stay and accept that this is going to be your reality for the next 40+ years or walk away. I say salavage your dignity and walk away. i did and i never looked back!!!

[Asha]

catbride & mkredhead - thank you for sharing your stories. :)

i think i have had enough. i don't deserve this. though, i am so so scared about what i have to do next. i know i can't take this anymore. i have waited patiently and lovingly for two years for him to change.

i have prepared a letter saying goodbye. i don't know if i am going to just leave today and leave the letter or will wait for him to come home and had him the letter then leave.

this is an excerpt from the letter...

many, many times you have said you want to divorce/separate. each and every time i persuade you out of that position. i shouldn't have to convince you to not leave me. i shouldn't have to shed so many tears to convince you of the pain you would cause me if we were not to be married. i need to believe your words. i need to believe that when you say this it means you don't want me in your life. since i have to believe your words, i must go. i don't deserve this. i shouldn't have to force you to stay with me. no, you have not abandoned me but your words and actions tell me that you don't want me to in your life. i can't live with the fear that you will one day just leave.

i am so incredibly sad right now. all i wanted was stability, compassion, acceptance, and love. why is that such a hard thing for him to give me? why did he change after we married?

[gayle]

Oh Reb. I am so sorry it has come to this, and what you are doing shows tremendous strength and good, healthy self-esteem.

I wish you the very best of luck, and from one who has walked this very path, and been in exactly the same place you are now, believe me when I say, your life will get better, and happier.

You deserve to be loved and valued, and treated properly.

[Asha]

thank you for your support, gayle.

now, i don't know what i am going to do next. i think i will pack an overnight bag if i decide i need to leave immediatedly after i give him the letter later today when he comes home.

the thing is i know that he will still not be in his right mind. it is taking him longer and longer lengths of time to come out of his bad moods.

though, i need to stop worrying about his state of mind and just worry about mine.

[HeatherFL]

Rebekah, I just wanted to tell you that my thoughts are with you. When Aaron and I separated it was one of the most painful things I had ever been through. In the mornings I did not want to move or get out of bed. I never believed I'd make it through. It was so hard. But I did make it through. One day I woke up and it just didn't hurt anymore. And I realized how much happier I had become without him. And I still am so happy. Now I am in love with someone who treats me as I believe I should be treated and communicates and who just makes me smile and laugh daily. I hope you find the happiness that you deserve.

I truly wish you the best of luck. Please let us know how you are doing.

H.

[trefoil]

Yes, please do worry about yourself right now. It would probably be best to leave immediately after letting him know. It sounds like his temper is unpredictable and after giving him the news, you shouldn't have to deal with his reaction. Please bring the material possessions you most value and make sure that you have some money with you. Maybe it will be fine and he will be understanding, but there is no reason to take the risk if you don't have to.

[nylons73]

Rebekah - for the love of GOD, GO! Go, just go! I know that you probably want to see him when you hand him the letter, and I know there are a lot of things that are probably left unsaid, but when you are dealing with somone who is as unpredictable as Jagir is, you have to think of yourself first and put yourself in the safest position possible. Facing an angry husband who is going to be handed a 'Dear John' letter is not a safe scenario for you to be in. IMHO!

Please, please, please, when you read this, call a friend (preferably one of the ones who have been "living this" with you) and go to that person's home, apt, condo, immediately!!!!

If I lived anywhere near you I would be in my car already coming to get you. GO! and let us know when you do!

My prayers and thoughts are with you today. Take care of yourself!!!

Nayla

[Pineknot]

I just fell across this thread.

I wanted to tell you how courageous I think you are. I have never been through this, but I have watched my Mom go through it. I have also watched my best friend just end her second marriage.

Although I don't have the knowledge of the pain, I always felt the worst pain my friend went through was BEFORE she left. It seemed once she left the situation, she saw things with much more clarity and started having realizations about just how bad she had been feeling. That really helped her start healing.

I will be thinking about you all day, Reb. I know you must feel like you are running in circles right now. Just remember there are thousands and thousands of women that go through this every day and we all make it through.... It will really be okay.... {{{{REB}}}}

[granada]

Rebekah ~ I've followed along in your story here and there, but I never posted, because I didn't think I had much more to add. But I just wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you. Your story really touched me, because I was in a relationship very similar to what you describe your marriage to be like. He never got physical with me, but it was a constant struggle, and I was always afraid something would set him off into one of his moods or make him mad. I was always so frustrated, because I knew I was a good person, but I could never make him happy.

You are being very strong right now, but you should also prepare yourself for the very likely possibility that he will beg for you to come back. Just know that it is coming and know how you will react.

It took me several attempts before I was able to break it off for good. Take care of yourself, and as you can see, there are many women here who will support you during this time, including me.

[suzubeane]

Rebekah, I had not seen this thread before today; I'm so sorry for everything you're going through – he sounds so much like my first husband! I know you're sad, but you're not going to believe how liberated and satisfied you'll feel once someone is no longer belittling you.

The most surprising thing that happened to me after I left my first husband (about 6 years ago now) was how my friends embraced me. I did not need to feel shame, and neither do you. You'll see!

I could go on and on … your situation is so familiar to me (cultural differences and all; my first husband is native Italian.) but for now I'll just say I don't think you need to give him the note. I don't think it will affect him. You just need a firm resolve and PLEASE move some money into a separate account before you do anything. You may not have thought about this, but I guarantee you HE has, or shortly will.

If this is what you really want (and of course it's not, but you can't have him back he way he was) then please … stay strong. I had to leave my ex three times before it took. And each time our reconciliation was absolutely text book – it was followed by a higher level of commitment. Abusers – even mental abusers – do things to step up the level of commitment after a reconciliation to make sure you won't leave again; even the ones who say they'd rather be without you. I know – believe me, I know! (After the last reconciliation, we had our second child, and I world not trade that for the world, but in my heart of hearts I know why she's here.)

I realize this is rambly, but your story really touched me because it's just. so. familiar.

Chin up; stay strong, and please keep us posted. We'll be here no matter what you decide, even if its to stay a little longer.

[Asha]

everybody thank you so much. your support means everything to me right now.

i am taking steps to make sure i am all right.

[DiscoDiva]

I'm so sorry to hear it has come to this, but it does sound like the right decision. Please be careful and take care of yourself. Let us know if you need anything!

[Asha]

just wanted to let you know that i am ok. dh decided to go to his parents last night, so there was no need for me to go anywhere else.

again thank you so much.

[Esq.]

Rebekah, I am thinking of you. Please know that we are here to listen and support you through this.

[lawyerlee]

I'm so sorry things turned out this way, Rebekah. You seem like such a wonderful person - always so positive and giving. You must know you deserve more. I can't imagine how much you are hurting right now, but please know that you've got lots of supporters out here. It really sounds like you did the only thing you could at this point. It is impossible to make someone else happy, and you are much too valuable to be the scape goat for your husband's issues.

[Asha]

krysten & lawyerlee !! thank you!!

just to give everyone a heads up. it is becoming difficult to xpost information between my journal and here. there's more detailed information in my journal, so if anyone cares to pop by over there, that's quite alright.

i'm not trying to be evasive just too much effort to go back and forth. though, i will come back with periodic updates for those who don't want to plod through my journal. :)

[Mrs. M.]

Just wanted to wish you all the best.

[Asha]

mrs. m - thank you for thinking of me. :)

[MandyMaloo]

I just wanted to offer my support. Please take care of yourself.

[December27JJB]

I am so sorry you have to go through all this. Its so important to take care of yourself so please do!

[jarm]

I also read your thread in ES and just wanted to let you know that I'm reading along and thinking of you.

[kemaji]

I just came across this thread and want to offer you my support as well.

[IrisHope]

Rebj, I truly believe people could change if they are sick of being a certain way. He needs to want to change for that to happen. The fact that when you told him how you felt he walked out of the room only to tell you the next day that he won't curse or scream at you, is a cause of concern for me. He can't make promises if he won't even listen to how his actions are hurting you. I offer you hugs.

[artist]

For some reason I can't access your journal. But I hope you are doing okay. You are a very strong woman!

[IrisHope]

artist, not sure why you can't access it but it sounds as if she's doing okay.

[suzubeane]

For some reason I can't access your journal. But I hope you are doing okay. You are a very strong woman!I couldn't get there through the sig link either. It's here. (http://www.constantchatter.com/showthread.php?t=1842)

[princess1224]

Rebekah, I too only stumbled on this thread today.

I had the same strong opinions as others as I read about the way you were being treated. I've spent the better part of my morning reading this thread and my kids are going to be eating lunch a little late but I had to keep reading to find out what's going on with you. I'm so proud of you for making the decision to leave. I realize that it must be so hard for you. Stay strong. (((HUGS))) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v62/sunshine4376/hug.gif I know everyone has said it but I want to reiterate that you have a lot of support here.

[Asha]

thank you all for your continued support and concern. i am doing fine.