View Full Version : The Waiting Is Killing Me...(Selling)
We are flipping our condo...and spending money we don't have on repairs, etc. We aren't living in it now. We bought a 2 family and are turning them in to condos. We are renting both of these units (long story--deleading, work deadlines so can't move, etc.) and trying to sell one of them...
It's been 3 weeks and it hasn't sold. But also no one seems to come to the open house. It's in a good neighborhood--a 'hot' neighborhood, it's a nice place...it is possible we overpriced it slightly...
I'm just babbling and rambling but the agent who was our buyer's agent is this very sexy, charming French woman. Personally, she is lovely but I wasn't 100% sure about her as a sales agent. My husband said we should stick with her. It's business, of course, so even though I personally like her I don't necessarily feel any need to have loyalty to her and hire her but I said OK because I trust my husband's judgment.
I'm not second guessing him now. I'm just bummed because the repairs are killing us and if we could sell, we would have plenty of money for repairs. Plus, it would be one more thing off our plate.
If you want to give my advice, here is my question: Should I trust my instincts? My instinct tells me to renovate further. The kitchen is renovated...the bathroom isn't. There is carpet and all the new 'rehabs' are 100% hardwood. (The carpet is really, really nice and there is some hardwood already...but it isn't 'done.') It's even tempting to de-lead. I was thinking of sinking more money into it if it isn't selling in the early spring next year...
What do you think of that? It's just my gut telling me that we could put in $10,000 and sell it for $30,000 more (what the rehabs of this size are going for.)
Of course, most of you aren't trying to play the market (as we idiotically are--we're POOR...I don't know why we are doing this except that we are trying to find a way out of our eternal brokeness). But even if you aren't and you are just selling, what do you think?
We are considering getting into flipping with our neighbors. Our idea is to update everything. May I ask why you haven't?
My instinct would be to update what you can. But I also don't know your financial situation and spending more money might make things worse for you.
Thanks ejs...It's hard to know but we live in what's supposed to be a hot market.
Our agent told us we didn't need to update but I don't think she is infallible...Maybe I will look for a second opinion.
Good luck with your attempt!
I think a second opinion is a great idea. Have you and your DH looked at what else is on the market? Are they completely updated? Or just partially?
I wish you luck!
Hi Miel- I completely understand being anxious. Even though you live in a hot market, in a good area, could it be that you overpriced it a little?
My sister had to reduce her home price in order to get people to come in by 60K. Usually, most people are attracted to a home (to see it) by the price, and then are sold by the other factors. Just because you price it a little lower, does not mean that you will not get the amount of money you are looking for. It just means that perhaps buyers will have competition, and you know that competition makes people bid more. When you know that there is little competition, you try to make it a bargain, no?
As long as the bathrooms are not hideous, I personally would not invest more money into them. (Or if you can replace only a couple of things like faucets and new floors, that might make a huge difference).
I would shoot for trying not to leave it on the market too long. Stale listings are never something that people like to see. It either indicates greedy sellers or problems with the home. My view is that all markets are going to be changing in the next couple of months. The feds just raised the rates again less than two weeks ago, and I know that home sales in our area have slowed ( :eek: We have also been thinking of listing our property). I say these things from one of the hottest housing markets in the country, and from having been on both sides, buyer/seller.
I hope you get some interest soon!!! Good luck!
i think there are types of buyers and you have to decide what type of buyer you want to attract to your house.
the first type wants a fixer upper, but wants it at good price bc they are going to have to invest their own money to fix it up.
the second type wants a turnkey house, and doesn't have any desire to do any work for the house. they are probably willing to pay a bit more than the first type bc they are looking at houses that have the whole kit n' caboodle.
it sounds like your house is not completely turnkey yet bc of some work needed in the bathroom yet it from what you have said is a bit overpriced for the neighborhood. i am guessing people aren't willing to pay more for a house that isn't completely luxurious and turnkey.
though, you have to be careful when lowering your asking price bc some people may take it as a sign that you are desperate.
also, you might want to consider staging your home. empty houses don't seem to be that attractive to buyers. also, perhaps work on your curb appeal if you haven't had too many people drawn in by the open houses.
Thanks! We're re-doing the outside of the house. So the curb appeal should improve.
These are the things I keep saying but our real estate agent and my husband do not seem to believe it. I have a lot of opinions just based on the fact that I've spent YEARS looking at open houses...and I really know the market now.
First, I said it was overpriced but we went with our agent's judgement. Second, I do think it needed more updating.
We are taking it off the market in about 3 weeks and will re-try for the Spring. Yes, I think the market is slowing and I think we may be in trouble. But we'll see.
ejs--There are many, many updated units on the market right now. Not a whole lot in the exact price range we have...but there are a lot. So that is a consideration for me.
LRL Yes, our market is not quite as hot as San Francisco's...but yes, I think things are slowing. I think many, many people have come in on this business and there are a whole lot of units out there now. However, rents are very, very high and there is a very low vacancy rate. So it isn't like it's still cheaper to rent or anything. There is some incentive to buy still. There may not be forever, of course.
rebj This is part of the reason I have second thoughts about our agent, even though my husband doesn't...just by reading the listings for a number of weeks I could tell we had priced too high. I don't know if she really knows what she is talking about--she gave us much too high a figure on both units. Actually, we rented it to tenants at lower than market--and as a sublet--so that the place had a nicer look to it. One of the problems is actually that we aren't getting people at the open houses.
I'm not pleased but I am letting my husband make all the main decisions. This means we fight--of course we would fight anyway. It is very unlike us to fight. However, I have such a strong feeling about things and I really feel like I know what I'm talking about...So I try to say what I think and I feel I get shot down. The thing was that he was going to make the decisions but I was going to understand the reasons for them. When we fight it is that I want to know why the information I have isn't a part of the reasons....I think I am the one who gets frustrated.
I know that sounds weird. The reason we're leaving it up to him is because my job really doesn't give me the time to do the research...he is being a champ about doing ALL the work now...We decided to let him make the decisions because it seems clear he is better informed...but the whole thing stresses me out and I jump in like 'why? Why don't we do it this way?' And then when it seems like he is dismissive I get upset...I'm probably scared we have destroyed ourselves financially.
I don't know why I'm telling you all this...But here's another question if there is anyone who wants to help me think this through:
1. We have really, really nice carpet through 3/4 of the unit. Would it be better to
A. Leave the carpet so as not to incur expense about the flooring? It's a neutral, light, tasteful modern carpet.
B. Remove the carpet throughout the entire house (could be between $3,000-$5,000)
C. Remove the carpet for the downstairs and keep the carpet for the staircase and 2 upstairs bedrooms.
I know it's hard to say but here's one fact--The updated units that contractors do always have wood floors. Always. I'm assuming these people know what they are doing.
A second question: The bathroom is icky but probably the most noticeable thing is the tile floor--very 1970s brown tile. Annoyingly, the walls are tiled all the way up to the ceiling. What if we just re-did the 1970s floor but left everything the way it is? Unfortunately, the toilet is beige and the sink matches the toilet. Contractors I've brought in have remarked they don't think the fixtures are hideous.
i hate to be stereotypical but contractors are generally men who don't have a ton of fashion sense. personally, i don't like colored bathroom fixtures. we bought a house with them, but i don't like them. definitely think about updating the tiles. people know that removing tiles is a lot of work, so they may be wary of buying a house with hideous tiles.
keska
10-03-2005, 07:42 AM
Have you ever watched that show Property Ladder? It's about flipping houses and the show advisor always tells the people renovating that bathrooms and kitchens sell homes. Personally, I think this is really true. DH and I haven't purchased a home yet, but we've started looking around to get an idea of the Bay Area market for when we move out in December and, of course, we've rented tons of places. I absolutely draw the line at renting or buying a place with a yucky kitchen or bathroom. I think it's because people like us, who don't know the first thing about renovating, are comfortable with the idea of painting or changing carpets, but the idea of redoing a bathroom is really beyond us.
That said, HW floors would also be a huge draw to us. It's the thing I look for after a nice bathroom and kitchen. I've noticed that HW is much more prevalent in San Francisco than it is some other areas. It's really hard to find a rental in DC with HW unless it's really old parquet, though I think it's more common in new construction. That's one reason I can't wait to get back to SF. If you wanted to change out the floors, I think you'd be fine with putting HW on the ground floor only. I know when we lived in SF, our loft had carpet upstairs and HW downstairs, and that's really typical.
Miel- Hmmm. I don't think that I would worry too much about the carpet. As long as it is in good condition, I don't see it as being the swaying factor to buyers. But, if you are going to try to sell in Spring, and EVERY other place has wood floors then you may be looking at a selling factor.
Now the colored tile I would think about changing/replacing. You may want to reglaze the tile. It seems to be a minimal investment- in fact there is someone in one of the home improvement threads who did this at a rather low cost. If you reglazed to all white, you could totally spruce up the bathroom and make it look new. The tub/shower could be reglazed, and the toilet replaced (not too much of an investment). The 70's were not a good era for bathrooms!
Keska- Oh yes, most SF properties have fab wood floors- but I am more attracted to the architecture. Everytime we pass by a 1.5MM Victorian or Tudor home in the area I just sigh. DH has learned to ignore me- :rolleyes: I must want too much! In fact, I just told DH that we should hold off on looking at any other homes until we can afford what we REALLY want- AND I am being reasonable. I only want about 2500 square feet! ;)
Sorry for the high-jack Miel!
larslobster
10-03-2005, 05:07 PM
We just sold our house and it took a whole two weeks. Given that homes in our area were selling in a day just a few months ago, the two week wait frustrated me. But, as our realtor pointed out, this is generally a slow time of year. I also think Hurricanes Katrina and Rita freaked people out a little. If you can hang on to the place until spring, you might do better.
As for renovations, here's what I'd do. If I recall, you're in the Boston/Cambridge area right? I'm assuming your renovating an old home and will be getting buyers that like old homes so I'll be giving you suggestions based on that assumption.
1. Deleading - don't bother. Most people looking for old homes won't care if there's lead paint as long as it's not chipping. Just make sure to encapsulate it by painting over it. Much cheaper if you do the work yourselves than hiring professionals to delead.
2. Wood floors/carpet. I think most people looking for an older home want wood floors, at least in the common areas (living and dining rooms). When I lived in Boston, that was the one thing I refused to settle on when looking for a place. I don't think it's as big an issue if you're renovating a suburban home in a development though.
3. Bathroom. 'Old' 1920s is good. 'Old' 1970s is bad. As someone else suggested, I'd at least reglaze the tile and replace the toilet. And replace the floor tile if possible.
Thanks for your comments...We are putting it on hold until the Spring.
I mean, it's still on the market but I don't expect it to sell. There is too much stock out there.
I'm getting discouraged. Husband says I'm being very negative. Met with the deleaders today and they were hassling us to get aluminum siding. Bugged me a lot! Then the guy told me that our asbestos siding is going to be illegal in 2 years and we will have to get vinyl siding. There is no way in hell I'll get vinyl siding.
That would kill the value of the house. (All the houses have vinyl siding in this town but not the fancy schmancy condos.)
Oh, and guess what? OUR YARD SMELLS LIKE PEE. Someone peed in the driveway (not ours) next to the house? Or in our yard? I can't locate the source and thus cannot do anything about it. Husband says it might be a cat. Oh, God why me?
It'll probably be about $15,000 to do the outside--delead, paint, repair. I didn't like this guy though--my husband did.
But I am a negative person. Husband believes it will all be fine. Even a real estate developer I talked to seemed confident anything in this town will sell (although he is more of a landlord and not an experienced developer so maybe he's an idiot.)
The interest rates are going up...Aaaaaaahhhhhhhh......OK, I'm trying to stay calm, breathe, etc. I think the pee smell was really the thing that put me over the edge today...
Buying a house wasn't really my idea but honestly they are going to evict us and turn our places condo anyway...
glensgirl
10-06-2005, 05:54 AM
I had my condo on the market last fall for about 6 weeks. It was in Boston and NO ONE was coming to the open houses. Everyone was too wrapped up in the Red Sox playoffs and the Patriots winning streak. On top of that I could not stand my agent. I had used her when I bought the place but she turned out to be not a good seller's agent. We took it off the market and put it back on in the spring with a different agent and it sold within 10 days after only one open house. It sounds like your agent isn't too good at researching all the comparable sales if it's overpriced. Or if she is pulling them she isn't taking into consideration the level of detail of those that are selling.
I am not sure where you are selling, but I think with a condo it should be turnkey. I would definitely renovate the bathroom and replace the carpet at least downstairs. There are too many places out there that have top of the line finishes like granite kitchens, marble tiled bathrooms and hardwood throughout. If you're priced similarly to those without a renovated bathroom and with carpet then it will not sell. My place had all of those things and it still would not sell in the fall. Spring was definitely a better time for me but it's hard to say what next spring will be like. Good luck!:)
i would get a second opionion on the deleading work. i got one opionion for work on our house and it seemed high so i went with a second company and they were literally half the price!!!!
Delaney21
10-06-2005, 04:16 PM
Miel-Now the colored tile I would think about changing/replacing. You may want to reglaze the tile. It seems to be a minimal investment- in fact there is someone in one of the home improvement threads who did this at a rather low cost. If you reglazed to all white, you could totally spruce up the bathroom and make it look new. The tub/shower could be reglazed, and the toilet replaced (not too much of an investment). The 70's were not a good era for bathrooms!
I was the one who just reglazed my 40s bathroom. It only cost $25 to do it, but it looks great! You can't tell its not tile. You can reglaze tile, sinks, tubs and toilets. I have pictures in my journal and there is a reglazing thread with Q&A.
Reb The funny thing is that even though contractors are men, there are these standard features in gut rehabs....and they are kind of nice. I wouldn't put them in my own home but it's the granite countertops thing glensgirl talked about...I'm not in to them but they are the reason places sell...I swear there were these 2 condos near my house in the hot hot hot neighborhood with corian and they did not sell for months while everything around them was vanishing.
Of course I roll my eyes and think 'people are sheep.' Or: They just want to impress their friends. Because seriously, WHO CARES?
Delaney Wow! That's cheap! Did you do it yourself? Unfortunately, besides not looking good the entire bathroom--including the ceiling--is tile. It's tile from top to bottom. And it's not well tiled, either. It's not perfectly even. I wonder if re-glazing could fix that? We're going to get an estimate and talk to the guy about what they can do.
glensgirl Yes, we're in Boston and we don't know what's distracting people but we're going to renovate when we get a chance. We have to rent in November and if we don't get tenants right away, we're at least going to do the floors. One issue is just that the unit is rented so there are limits on how much renovation we can do...
Reb DH is so sweet and is taking on a lot of the stuff himself...but he is not as wary (suspicious? cynical?) as I am and alas, we are already getting kinda ripped off by the de-leader...He is pushing aluminum HARD.
What do you think about aluminum trim? It's all over the place where we live...but is it tacky? Will it destroy the price of the house.
Already I'm almost decided not to do it...
Well, anyway, thanks for the advice...I'm taking it! The one thing that made me feel better about this whole venture was that we met with our accountant today (who we're going to end up paying $1,000 a year! To do our taxes! Because they are so complicated now!) And he ran the scenarios and we're pretty much right about the tax liability. So we still have a shot at this crazy plan working...sort of...kind of...Because we CAN just move in to the unit we're trying to sell and live in it for 2 years and renovate/try to sell off and on over the course of those two years...and if it doesn't sell we save $$$$ on taxes!
So I think I'm going to relax about the sale...
Anyone else trying to sell and having to wait...
I've actually mellowed a bit about this...we can wait! Unless the market--or America--collapses for 5 years running we should be OK.
Still, I'd like it off my hands.
did you end up doing more reno's on the house?
good luck!
Yes, we did more renovations but we left off some. If it does sell now, I'll be very happy we didn't go further in our renovations. Even if it doesn't sell now, I do take it as encouragement that people liked our house--more people are bound to like it. It's a pretty nice place!
The market is picking up over here also.
jenahdawn
07-18-2006, 12:28 PM
Just coming to chime in: Hardwood floors are NOT a selling point for me. But, there were a few houses we looked at that the house was okay, but the bathroom/s turned me off.
Hope you get good news soon!!!
justHB
07-18-2006, 02:10 PM
i think there are types of buyers and you have to decide what type of buyer you want to attract to your house.
the first type wants a fixer upper, but wants it at good price bc they are going to have to invest their own money to fix it up.
the second type wants a turnkey house, and doesn't have any desire to do any work for the house. they are probably willing to pay a bit more than the first type bc they are looking at houses that have the whole kit n' caboodle.
it sounds like your house is not completely turnkey yet bc of some work needed in the bathroom yet it from what you have said is a bit overpriced for the neighborhood. i am guessing people aren't willing to pay more for a house that isn't completely luxurious and turnkey.
though, you have to be careful when lowering your asking price bc some people may take it as a sign that you are desperate.
also, you might want to consider staging your home. empty houses don't seem to be that attractive to buyers. also, perhaps work on your curb appeal if you haven't had too many people drawn in by the open houses.I agree with everything Asha wrote.
Two years ago, when we were looking at condos, I either wanted a fixer or one that was spotless. For some reason, I didn't want anything in between. There's just something rather frustrating about having a beautiful kitchen but a shitty bathroom, in my mind.
I also agree staging is important.
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