Finding "good schools"

[BTB]

We're casually looking now, househunting for real in January, and I'm so clueless on this stuff it's not even funny. We know we want to move into a "good" school district (naturally, who looks for bad ones?) :) but don't know what to look for - what characteristics make "good schools?" Is it class size? Per pupil spending? State test results? And once we know what to look for, is there a website that contains that kind of information? Or places to call? So clueless. :p

[emmjay]

I know of a good website that might help:

Great Schools (http://www.greatschools.net/) has school profiles, testing info, comments from parents, etc. for CA, AZ, TX, FL, CO, NY, WA, PA, OH, IL, and NJ if you live in any of those states.

I have only glanced at it myself but my sister lives in CA and she said it was really useful when looking for a new house.

[BTB]

Thanks emmjay! I'm actually moving out of one of those states, but it's a good site and gives me some tips on what to look for! :)

[2kCougar]

Every year, our newspaper reports on how the local schools are doing. The website emmjay posted is a good starting point for most areas. It was accurate to how I would rate the schools in NY, but my sister is in KY and it doesn't reflect her schools very well.
Things that I would look for are:
student : teacher ratio (this may be misleading if the district is small), I wouldn't be pleased with one that is more than 15 or 16
# of students that continue onto college
Check out the high schools that offer more than the basic curriculum, you would want ones that offer A.P. courses and a variety of electives in each discipline
Special Ed. department. Some schools have almost nothing. These people are wonderful--even if your kids don't have special needs.

There are some districts that I would not move into b/c they were too big--that's a personal preference. There is 1 huge school in the area and it's impossible for the average student to play sports.

I'm sure there are other teachers on here to give some suggestions

[e&d]

The statistics are a really good place to start, but I think asking around in your new area is very important too. It also depends on what you're looking for. Sometimes the schools with the highest test scores and rankings are there because they push their students really hard and focus on the test...this is good for some kids, but not as good for others.

Also, some schools that appear lower in the test score rankings might be lower because they have a greater emphasis on the arts, for example, or have other strengths that may not be as apparent statistically.

If you find a trustworthy person whose opinion you value in your new area, I think they are also a great source of info. Good luck with your move!

[SingleWhiteFemale]

Check out the high schools that offer more than the basic curriculum, you would want ones that offer A.P. courses and a variety of electives in each discipline I have a small tiff with this being used to say what's a great school. Long story short, my high school was continually ranked top 5 in the country by the US Dept of Ed. However, in the local rankings, it was in the 70s of the top 100 (my graduating class was offered slightly over $30 million in scholarships to various colleges... so I don't think we rank so low when that's the most in the area, if not tops in the country!)! The reason is the formula they're using is one that is not to the advantage of schools with poor or struggling students who make great strides, but instead those who have a better pool of students to begin with.

They factor in number of free lunches as the factor for poverty/disadvantaged, but so many people in the county just barely are not qualified. So, they're poor and cannot afford the resources the "rich" parents can, but not poor enough to be counted in statistically. The AP tests bug me to no end. I have friends who were unable to take AP tests because their parents could not afford it, and they were not poor enough in the eyes of the College Board to have the fees waived. But in counties that have money, "upper middle class" and above, parents tell their children to take the exams because what's the worst that happens--$90 and they don't pass, no big deal. The numbers are how many tests are given, not the percentage passing. In all honesty, I've stopped looking at the rankings Newsweek puts out.. they make my blood boil more than anything!

Also, I don't want to sound paranoid, but just know that schools can take quick turns for the better or for the worse. In under 10 years, my high school went from just another school, to top 5 in the country. The HS my sis went to has been on a gradual decline for just as long, if not longer (it's known as "Bowie bomb school," as when she went there they had over a dozen bomb threats in a few short months).

After you find a house you like and put in an offer, just go and check out the schools zoned for that development. I've done some sub work at elementary schools recently. I've been in poorer areas and I've been in the richer ones. As you know, there's so much more to learning than just numbers and letters. I personally love subbing in the not so rich areas... those kids seem to have the biggest spark in them (and no, I'm not saying that those with privilege aren't motivated to learn)!

Disclaimer: My opinion, so don't jump on me! My personal feeling is that parents are a tad bit pushy today. They want the best school, they want a 4.0, they want an Ivy League college, they want to have their kid grow up to be a doctor/lawyer/president/Supreme Court Justice, etc. They need to give guidance and encouragement (and sometimes a good swift kick in the pants). It's natural to want the best, but... Honestly, put them in a decent school, love them, make learning fun and do small stuff with them at home so they love learning--and they'll be alright! Some of the best and brightest from my high school class are failing in their Ivy League classes, dropping out of college... yet those who did mediocre at decent schools are fairing quite well! It feels that mommy/daddy and their caring, their involvement, their teaching/reinforcing the fundimentals trumps the educational opportunities that were presented in the K-12 level.

Evie will do wonderfully whereever she may be in elementary, middle or high school, because she has 2 wonderful parents who are there for her to make sure learns all about this funky world around her ;)

[miel]

My personal feeling is that parents are a tad bit pushy today. They want the best school, they want a 4.0, they want an Ivy League college, they want to have their kid grow up to be a doctor/lawyer/president/Supreme Court Justice, etc. They need to give guidance and encouragement (and sometimes a good swift kick in the pants).

TOTALLY!

This is soooooo true! It cracks me up to think about my brother, the TV addict at the #1 college in the country, though...kind of a fluke and it does give me a sense that maybe I should care about where my kid goes to school, at least a little...since he just by accident went to very good schools.

[Kanga]

Another thing I would look at it is the graduation percent. You want a school where the student feels like dropping out isn't an option. And if your child's school has a high drop out percent, it makes it look like it's that much easier to just quit and drop out.

[2kCougar]

I have a small tiff with this being used to say what's a great school.
The AP tests bug me to no end.


So, you're saying that the AP courses are worthless and schools that don't offer electives are "good schools"? I took wonderful AP courses in high school and they were a great help in college. Most of the students in my college classes had taken at least 2 AP courses in science, and they were much better prepared.

Most of my current students have taken all of the electives that they're interested in by the spring of junior year. Why shouldn't they be able to take interesting courses throughout their high school experience?

I've sat in on a number of talks by college admissions counselors. They never say that they want students who just get by. They want students that challenge themselves both academically and in extra-curricular activities. These are not ivy league schools. They are liberal arts schools. The technical schools (engineering) are looking at academics more than anything else.

We all see things differently based on our own experiences. I wish that I could have taken more electives in high school that would have better prepared me for college. Bio and calc were a breeze b/c I had already been exposed to the material.

[Rosebud]

This is a great thread. Thank you! We're looking for neighborhoods with good schools in L.A., which is really difficult. I've had no idea where to start. And reading these posts I realize how much there is to take into consideration.

The AP tests bug me to no end. I have friends who were unable to take AP tests because their parents could not afford it, and they were not poor enough in the eyes of the College Board to have the fees waived.

Just to defend the AP a bit.... I took 3 AP tests in high school, all of which I paid for with money I earned at my after school job. Those AP tests completely placed me out of college English (at a very good university) and ended up giving me enough extra credits that I graduated in 3.5 years. This saved my parents a full semester's tuition, which was $12,500 at the time. Definitely worth it.

Also, the AP program was so much more challenging than the regular classes at my high school. Even if you don't take the tests, you really want to have access to the classes.

[BTB]

Disclaimer: My opinion, so don't jump on me! My personal feeling is that parents are a tad bit pushy today. They want the best school, they want a 4.0, they want an Ivy League college, they want to have their kid grow up to be a doctor/lawyer/president/Supreme Court Justice, etc.

For my little pumpkin, that occupation list is an and, and, and, not an either/or... and you forgot Nobel Laureate and astronaut. ;)

Kidding, of course. I'm not looking to give the kid a complex. Nor am I looking for the "best" school. I don't want one that will have her doing quadratic equations instead of playing tag at recess. If I wanted that, I wouldn't really care what the public schools are like, would I? My kiddo'd be headed straight for the uber-exclusive and private Kindergarten Academy of the Sciences.

The area we're moving into, so I've heard, has some very strong schools, lots of decent ones, but a good number of weak, floundering districts as well. I'm just looking to find a district currently providing good, solid educations in a safe environment with decent resources.

[FallingforPhil]

Another thing to consider when looking at the size of a prospective district....

I live in the Chicago suburbs. The growth is ridiculous, and therefore, schools are popping up all over--one nearby district has opened 2 new high schools in the past 3 years. The schools themselves look great on paper--tons of AP classes, gorgeous facilities, great technology, etc. etc. However, because they're so strapped for cash, they're hiring only teachers with little to no experience.

I ran into this myself this past summer when I was looking for a new job. The district I was pursuing couldn't hire me for the 3 positions I put in for, because I was "too expensive." That's with 4 years experience and BA + 12 hours toward my masters. Definitely not what you'd call a veteran teacher. Thankfully, I finally got into the district, but only by accepting a HS position, where they have a little more flexibility in hiring. (I'd prefer to teach middle school).

I guess what I'm saying, in a nutshell, is to check out the experience level of the teachers within a district. Of course, not every new teacher is bad, and not every veteran teacher is good, but it's something to think about.

[miel]

For my little pumpkin, that occupation list is an and, and, and, not an either/or... and you forgot Nobel Laureate and astronaut

TOTALLY! Doctor, though...it's gotta be doctor. Too many lawyers in the family. Astronauts--there are some ethical issues with astronauts. So doctor it is! She's only 17 months old so there's plenty of time to mold her.