Support for a late term loss/stillbirth/infant loss - TTC or not, all are welcome

[jennylou]

I know we have a ttc after a loss thread, but I think with the different experiences we go through with these types of losses, compared with a miscarriage that it might be helpful to have a different thread. I am not trying to downplay a miscarriage in any way. It's just that we are going through different experiences surrounding our losses.

So, anyone else care to join me on this journey?

I can tell you that things this time around ttc is much more emotional for me. Having used clomid before, I didn't think that was possible, but it is. I am impatient to get pregnant, scared to be pregnant, but mostly, scared to death of another loss. I don't like the let down each month, won't stop ttc. Like I said, lots of emotions.

How do you ladies deal with the "do you have kids" questions?

[LyLMyssChaos]

I'm sure that LDS will be stopping by here, but I wanted to let you know that I think this is a great idea for a thread as there are so many different issues that you face losing a child later on rather than sooner. I hope that you all can bring each other much love and support as you continue on your journey as parents! I'll be lurking along and trying to offer whatever support I can! :)

[Ericka_Jarett]

Hi Jenny,

Thanks for starting this thread.

I actually was asked the do you have children question the other day. I said I have a daughter that passed at 24 weeks. The person said I'm sorry and we just finished the conversation.

I am anxious to get pregnant again now.
__________________________________________________ __________

For those that don't know about my loss:

Had my daughter, Rebekah Joy at 24 weeks and 1 day gestation. She was born April 18, 2005 at 6:39pm and passed at 7:50pm. She never once caught her own breath, her heart continued to beat until the very end. She passed from chorioamnionitis (placenta infection) and funisitis (cord infection) which got in from 2 cervical bacteria that I was unaware I had. Otherwise my daughter was perfectly healthy. The chorioamnionitis caused Rebekah's growth to slow down so her lungs were only developed to 22 weeks. They said it happens in less than 10% of babies and that it's usually isolated and shouldn't happen again to me.

[jennylou]

lds thanks for being our cheerleader. I'm sure we can all use some encouragement around here.

ericka - I am incredibly anxious to get pregnant again. At the same point, I'm scared. Scared of getting through the first trimester, with all of its increased risk so that I can hopefully relax and then enjoy the rest of the pregnancy. Since my loss was SIDS and something we weren't expecting, nor was there anything we could do to prevent it, I don't think I'll worry about the pregnancy. Actually, I've often thought that I was able to better take care of Andrew inutero than after he was born. I know I couldn't have prevented his death, but, he was so safe in my womb and I feel like I failed him outside of that. So, I'll probably be most nervous to actually have a baby, not carry one (outside of those first tri jitters).

How long will you wait before announcing any when you are pregnant again? We have talked about not announcing it until after the first tri.

How will any future pregnancies be treated for you? Because ours was SIDS, and not a problem with pregnancy, we likely won't have any additional tests. Though, I think one doc mentioned a level three ultrasound, just to double check that everything is okay. After birth the baby will be put on a monitor. It will remain on a monitor for at least six months.

[Jessie]

I just wanted to say this is a wonderful idea for a thread. I know that I was never all that comfortable posting in the m/c thread because I felt my experience was different from most of the women there.

For those who don't know, our son was stillborn at 38 weeks due to a massive fetal-maternal hemorrhage on March 28, 2004. I have since given birth to a healthy baby girl four months ago. Not a day goes by that I don't think about and grieve for my son.

I will be lurking along, cheering all of you ladies on through your journey. Lots of love to all of you.

[Sully130]

I hope you won't mind if I join. I know I'm currently pregnant, but I'm in that "scared to death, yet cautiously optimistic" point of everything. And who knows what the future will bring. I'd love to be able to come around and talk about these issues with people who understand. Many of the questions jennylou has asked, I am dealing with, and have been dealing with.

I lost my first child, my daughter Hannah, in April. She was diagnosed with a fatal genetic condition at 22 weeks and I delivered her, stillborn, at 23 weeks. Our genetic counseling tells us that it is unlikely that we will deal with the same problem again, but as it was, we were on the wrong side of 1 in 60,000 odds (some say 1 in 100,000). So who believes in probabilities after that? Not me.

As for this pregnancy/future pregnancies, I will get more early ultrasounds. They aren't sure when they will be able to tell, but definitely by 18 weeks. Until then, they'll just keep looking for any abnormalities. At least now, they know what they are looking for. With my last pregnancy I had lots of spotting so I ended up with about five ultrasounds in my first trimester anyway, but they were never looking for abnormalities with her.

I could have CVS testing done, or an amnio, but I'm just not willing to throw in any extra risk when an u/s can tell me not long after those tests could.

As far as when to announce, I haven't figured that one out yet. I've told my family and my closest friends, but as for everyone else, I don't know. Part of me wants to wait until I'm 18 weeks, but I guess they'll figure it out by then. Besides, if we lose this pregnancy/baby, then I know I'll need their support just as I did last time. It's such a hard decision. I want so very badly to be able to shout from the rooftops, "I'M PREGNANT!" And when people say "Congratulations!" I want to say, "Thanks!" and not the "Thanks, but we'll just have to wait and see" that I actually say.

As for the "how many kids do you have?" question. I hate that one. I try to avoid it. I usually just say "We're trying very hard to start a family, it's just not always that easy." -- or something like that. Sometimes I tell them I lost my first child...but I usually just gauge how much I share based on who's asking.

When I do tell them, people always will say "well, I'm sure the next one will work for you." The cynic in me wants to shout out, "Really?!? What makes you so sure? Before I lost Hannah, I had a miscarriage. So excuse me if I'm not optimistic." But I figure that's more than they really want to know anyway. And I know they are very well intentioned.

jennylou - I'm familiar with the feelings of guilt you mentioned. Though unlike you, I feel like I failed my daughter while she was in my body. From the moment her cells formed, she never had a chance on this earth. I felt so responsible. I felt much like you did, like I failed her. That my body failed her and it failed me. I think it's normal to want to blame someone for our sadness in life, and many times, when there is no one else to blame, we blame ourselves. It's not right, but it's a fact of life.

But the bottom line is, if there was anything we could have done differently that would put our children back in our arms, healthy...well, then there's nothing I wouldn't do.

I'm just going to be nervous for the whole time. I'm scared until I get to the 18 week milestone, and then after that, I'll be convinced that something else will go wrong. It's hard not to feel that way when you have a miscarriage and think things can't get worse, then they do. You know?

I hope you won't mind my being here. I'd love to cheer you gals along in your journey, and I sure could use the support in mine.

[LDS Angel 19]

Thanks for starting this. I agree that what we have gone through is rather diffrent then a early misscarriage. It's a little hard for me though, to understand. The medical world does refer to my daughters death as a 'late misscarriage'. That's not really what it was though, she lived for 40 mintues outside of the womb.

For anyone that dosen't know, I lost my daughter Allison Grace at just short of 23 weeks. My Dr's *think* I may have an incompitant cervix, but no one has been able to give me a staright answer. She was born on June 17th, 2005 at 4:00am and passed at 4:40am. She was 1 pound, 2.3 ounces and 13 and a half inches long. We didn't get to see her while she was alive.

I tell people I have a daughter that lives in heaven. I try not to be shy in talking about her. It helps me to talk about her as much as I can.

We're not sure when we will announce our next pregnancy. I think we will just play it by ear a little and see how we feel.

Right now, I'm trying to enjoy my first ride on the TTC roller coaster. When we concieved Allison, we were "seeing what happens". Now I feel like there is so much pressure to get pregnant again. To try to fill that hole in our hearts.
We know there will always be a void that only Allison can fill, but we feel another baby will help us heal in other ways.

[Ericka_Jarett]

We didn't find out we were expecting until I was 14 weeks, so I know we will be waiting until 12 weeks if we can hold out that long.

I asked my doctor about future pregnancy treatment and she said that I would have more tests, be sent to a perinatologist immediately (had an appt scheduled for when I was 26 weeks, since I had blood sugar level of 200) and watched closer with probably more doctor's appt, possibly as much as 2 or 3 a month as well as more ultrasounds.

I try not to think of what should have been, but looking to the future and having a healthy baby in my arms. Rebekah will always be a part of my life and a hole will always be there just as Michelle said with Allison.

[Nigellas]

I'm not sure if I qualify for this thread or not... I lost my son at 19 weeks – I missed the official "still born” definition by a week and it is considered a "late miscarriage" which just doesn’t seem appropriate…

Even though I lost Andrew years ago, even before I met my DH, I still think about him all the time.

[jennylou]

jessie - thanks for stopping by and showing us ladies that there is some hope of having healthy babies after dealing with something so horrible. I'm sure I will grieve my son every day of the rest of my life, a part of me died with him. However, I hope to regain some of my former happy self soon.

sully - Of course we don't mind that you're here. How far along are you now?

LDS - Good luck enjoying the TTC ride. I think I'm bitter that I'm back here so quickly, so I'm not enjoying it at all. Add all the fun of clomid and grief, and I'm a barrel of fun to be around these days.

nigellas - I'd think you would qualify. 19 weeks is a long time to carry a baby and then lose it. I didn't want to minimize the pain of an earlier miscarriage, but I think that those of us (like you) who made it further are dealing with different issues. My sons name was also Andrew, beautiful name. :)

One issue I'm currently dealing with is the baby weight. I'm now about 15 pounds under pre-PG weight (gained 22 pounds during pregnancy) and I still have a belly! I look like I'm still five months pregnant! Add in the fact that I had a c/s (what an additional insult imo) and I have this roll of flab that I've NEVER had. I've never had my belly roll over and touch another part of my body. So, blech. Since it's been hot, I sweat and I just think it gets gross. Since all the muscles were cut, I wonder if I'll ever regain strength?

[Dotsie]

This didn't happen to me but it happened to my best friend. She was pg with her 2nd child a boy. He was diagnosed as having an omphalacele. Basically his intestines were growing outside of his body. The dr's thought that he would be fine and would just need surgery the 1st day of his life. He was due to be born 9/12/05 but on 6/20/05 my best friend was induced because he died in utero. She and her DH are still devastated. This month is the 1st month they are able TTC. She is so anxious and nervous. Just like what JennyLou has said. I just wanted to stop in to say my thoughts and prayers are with all of you.

[Sully130]

jessie - Thanks for giving us hope. I can't imagine how difficult that must have been for you. But sounds like you were able to get pregnant again pretty quickly. Since that's what I'm currently experiencing, I am pretty familiar with the fears I'm sure you had then. But I'm so glad to hear that things turned out so well for you.

LDSAngel - It helps me to talk about my daughter too. Many times I don't say anything for fear of making the other person in the conversation uncomfortable, but if I do bring it up, they are usually shocked at how much I want to talk about her. But it is so therapeutic to me. It reminds me of how "real" she was.

I got so frustrated with well-intentioned people who would come up to me after her death and say, "I know how you feel, I had a miscarriage too." And I would say, "Yes a miscarriage is terrible, I had one also, but this was a child that I held in my arms and lost. She had a name and a face."

Isn't that "pressure" to get pregnant the worst? I hope that y'all can enjoy it as much as is possible.

Ericka - I can't believe you didn't know until 14 weeks! I WISH that could be the case for me. Wow, almost all of my worry time would be over! :)

Nigellas - 19 weeks is a long time to carry a child and I would not call that a miscarriage at all. You were almost halfway to bringing him into this world. I also love the name Andrew though. And it's good that you think of him so often.

jennylou - Thanks for making me feel welcome. I try not to even pay attention to where I am in the pg right now. I go next Thursday (9/8) to hopefully see the heartbeat. Until then, I'm dealing with spotting and just hoping and praying that this time will be different. I guess though I am about 6 weeks tomorrow.

As for the weight issue...let me see if I understand... You lost 37 pounds and you are still showing? That's crazy! I know that must be very frustrating. I had just started losing the last five pounds (and that baby belly pudge) when I got pg again. One thing I have noticed is that my muscles are completely out of shape. If I overeat, I instantly have this huge belly and that never used to happen to me.

But feeling like you still look pregnant is so hard. For me, it was a double-edged sword. On one hand, I wanted to be pregnant again with my child, and for her to be healthy, and I didn't want reality to be true. But on the other hand, I hated looking pregnant and having that constant reminder when I was not.

I didn't realize you had a c/s. I agree that is an additional insult. If I had carried Hannah much longer that was a distinct possibility for me too -- not to mention, I would have had an increased build-up of amniotic fluid. That would have made me twice as large as I should have been. Anyway, I'm sorry you had to go through that too.

Dotsie - I'm so sorry about your friend.

~~~~~~~

I'm just curious what you ladies have learned from your experiences? For me, I've learned the importance of always being a friend, no matter how uncomfortable I might be. I was surprised at the number of people who said nothing to me and it was so incredibly hurtful. I Know they didn't know what to say, but saying nothing was so much worse than saying the wrong thing. All I wanted was for people to acknowledge my loss and say "I'm so sorry," and if they felt so inclined, to listen to me talk about her. My mother lost a child, my sister, five years after I was born. She lived for 13 days. Because of her experience, my mom prepared me for this "silence." I was glad she did because I think I would have really taken it personally had she not.

In the future, I will always say something. I also learned that I will never say "I understand exactly how you feel," because I know that all of our experiences are different.

Anyway, I am just curious, what did you learn from your loss?

[Ericka_Jarett]

I felt like you to a degree also Sully. At the memorial service I saw such support for Jarett and I. One person in particular came that I didn't expect to see at all. He is a young guy, close to my age, he is also the one that saw the most profound thing at the service. He said as everyone was filing past the casket paying final respects, he looked over and saw 2 blue eyed angels on either side of Rebekah's casket. Guardian and Honor were with my baby girl.

Through my experience I also got to meet a woman at church that I have talked to just in passing of saying hi. She suffered 5 miscarriages and 1 2nd trimester miscarriage. Upon talking with her I found out she also was trained in grief counseling of parents of infant loss and also of miscarriages. What a blessing she is to me. She prays for me every 18th of the month and thinks and calls me and it's always perfect timing, cause sometimes I am feeling down the day she calls and she helps by just listening to me.

I try not to be so short with people now is what I have learned from all this. Some people just don't know how to react to a tragedy such as this. I also know that I have a huge group of people that if I bust out crying, I can look to any of them to pray and hold me.

[jennylou]

As for the weight issue...let me see if I understand... You lost 37 pounds and you are still showing?

Yep, probably the fact that my belly was all stretched out from a full term baby and then the c/s cut my muscles, so my belly is just jiggly and there. It's also still very weird feeling, I feel it, but it's tingly. That probably makes no sense at all! When I finally get pregnant again, I'm sure that I will pop out quick since my muscles just aren't what they should be.



Anyway, I am just curious, what did you learn from your loss?

Hmmm...I think I've learned a lot. First, people were so good to us after Andrew died. They really took care of us when we couldn't think about caring for ourselves. People, I think, naturally want to help others when they are down. People that I did not even know sent cards, flowers and money.

Now that we are a few months out, I do see that people sort of don't talk about him anymore. I'm not sure if they think it's better that way, but I WANT, no NEED people to acknowledge him.

It is devastating to lose a child. There is no other way to put it. I remember googling infant death a few weeks after Andrew died. And, if it wasn't bad enough to think about his death, then I had to read about the possibility of my marriage breaking up. Just what I needed to be thinking about. But, maybe it was. I know that we have been kinder and gentler to each other since Andrew's death. We are concerned (more than before) about each others feelings. We've always had decent cuddle time, but I think we sneak more hugs and kisses throughout the day. I think our relationship has strengthened because of this tragedy. How has this affected your relationship with DH?

Another question, Have you begun seeking counselling? I cried so much after his death that I didn't think it was a good idea to go and sob for an hour a week. I also didn't want to admit that I needed help to get through something. I've always been so strong before. Now, I think I need some additional counselling. At the very least I would love to go to a support group. I really need to look into whether or not there are any locally here.

[Sully130]

jennylou - That makes sense. I forget sometimes that I didn't go full term. And I do have many friends who have hated that excess skin after a pregnancy. I know that for most of them it took 4-5 months to go away. I know that is frustrating (and I can understand the gross part too!). I wish there was a magical cure to make it go away, but I think it's only time.

Ericka - I didn't mean to sound earlier like no one had reached out to me. I have had numerous people who have been wonderful. People made our meals for a few nights, and my best friends have been rocks for me. And I certainly could not have made it through all of this without my parents -- whose own experience of losing their child allowed them to really help me in ways no one else could. And I had strangers write to me (through email) stories of similar losses and it was so nice to realize that no matter how lonely you feel, you really aren't alone.

That woman at your church is a Godsend. :)

~~~~~~~~

As for the new questions:

How has this affected your relationship with DH?
I also saw the startling statistics about divorce after the loss of a child. I think I read it is at least as high as 50%. The nurses at the hospital were great in many ways, but the most important thing they told us before we left was to make sure we understand that women and men handle grief differently and that is okay. As she said, men like to go away, go be busy, go do things. Women, like to cocoon at home. And that is exactly how we both were. And for us, my husband is in the military and has been in training in another state throughout the whole ordeal. He came home for about a week, but then had to leave again. So I was with my parents. And I think that the distance from each other was probably helpful, as horrible as that might sound. But I think just because we did handle our grief much differently, I might have been upset if I had seen him every day and perceived his "going on with life" as not caring about our loss.

And now that I'm pg again, I see that he is just as scared as I am, but also just as excited about the possibilities. And going through the loss with him showed me an entirely different side of my husband. I fell in love with him all over again. He has never cried in his adult life. Never. But he cried when our child was baptized and he cried when we said goodbye to her. I will never forget those moments we shared together. And seeing his emotion just made me love him more than I thought possible.

Have you begun seeking counselling
No. I thought about it. I really did, b/c like you, jenny, I cried and sobbed so much right after her death I couldn't take it. But I also thought I'd be useless if I tried to talk about it with a professional. Besides, my mind just wasn't working right.

Like you also, I think of myself as strong, and independent. And I had a hard time thinking of reaching out. I did consider the support groups I was offered, and I still might go some day. Here there is a group called Caleb's Ministries...not sure if they are where you are too (I know they are around the country).

[jennylou]

Hello ladies.

I hope that you were able to enjoy your holiday weekends.

I just noticed this question:

Isn't that "pressure" to get pregnant the worst?

I admit that I've been putting a lot of pressure on myself. Right now, we are on cycle 3 of clomid. We just bumped up to 100 mg, from 50, so we are hoping this is the cycle. Fingers crossed. I'm sick of this ttc business...I want to be pregnant again.

[LDS Angel 19]

Good morning everyone. We had a very nice long weekend. Our anniversary was Sunday. We went over to Toronto, went to the zoo etc and had a really good time. (I'll have pics up in my journal at some point.)
The only downside was that AF decided to tag along. She showed up in full force on Saturday. Bleh.

What have I learned Well, at this point, I think it's still too fresh for me to have learned much in the grand scheme of things. But I have been reminded that I truly can depend on my DH for anything. He has been my rock the entire time. I learned first hand that bad things happen to good people, and I'm learning how to deal with that.

I guess that sort of goes right into the question of how our loss has affected mine and DH's relationship. We have become much closer. It's almost sort of stange. I mean, I thought we were close enough before, lol. But now, it's pretty amazing. He has been so caring and attentive to my needs during everything.

Counselling? I've thought about it. I think it might help. We have access to free counselling within our church and I think we will take advantage of it at some point.

Well, time to get to work. Have a nice day ladies.

[amygrrl]

i hope you don't mind me popping in since i'm now 8 wks pregnant, but i wanted to tell you guys that i think this is a wonderful thread. for those of you who don't know my story: we tried for 2 years to conceive and finally became pregnant with IVF. we lost our daughter, Avery Elizabeth, at 27 weeks due to a suspected cord accident though this can never be confirmed since the hospital lost the paperwork for her autopsy and released her for cremation. i delivered Avery on June 3rd and on August 5th we learned that i am pregnant again... amazingly enough all naturally.

What have I learned? i learned that i'm much stronger than i ever thought i could be and that my husband is truly AMAZING. i learned to embrace every moment of pregnancy. i truly loved the little time i had with avery. my tummy was the only home she ever knew and there's a closeness i feel to her because of that. i learned that no matter how much i want to be, i am not in control... this was a hard one for me.

Counseling? yes. we started with a grief conselor who specializes in infant loss and infertilty within a few days of losing avery. it was money well spent as it helped us to know that our emotions were completely normal and we were doing all the things we needed to be doing to get through the loss.

Isn't that "pressure" to get pregnant the worst? this one is hard for me. i really did feel signficant pressure from the time we lost her. what if we never got pregnant again? but then i got pregnant so much easier than before that now there's so much guilt. like if i enjoy this new baby, i'm somehow abandoning avery. it's so hard to balance this especially now that we've learned our new baby is also a girl. i also hate that my friends will say things like, i'm sure you feel a lot of guilt now, but once this new baby is in your arms that will go away. it's just not that simple. in the worst is my friend who keeps saying about the new baby 'well this one is just meant to be' as if avery wasn't ... she absolutely was. even if it was only for 27 months. i also have to remind myself that this is a new baby b/c it often feels like one really long pregnancy.

How has this affected your relationship with DH? we came out of this so much closer. i'm actually amazed at how it took us to a much deeper level.

[jennylou]

amy - of course we don't mind you stopping in. :) You are going through a lot of the same issues that those of us here are.

LDSAngel - sorry about AF. She sure is a hag with horrible timing.

The last couple of days have been bittersweet for me. We got our BFP September 9th of last year and I'm just remembering all of the early pregnancy memories. It's amazing how all the little things even mean a lot now.

[Bubbas]

This is a great thread! If you all don't mind, I would love to be a cheerleader for you. If not, I totally understand.

I lost my son at 18w4d due to premature rupture. I did get pg almost exactly 1 year after I was pg with my first and I have a wonderful DS who is just past 10 months. I got a new OB and they were wonderful to me. They saw me every 3 weeks and then weekly starting at about 26 weeks because of high BP and swelling. My water broke early again with my son but it was at 33w and I delivered him at 34 weeks.

The second pregnancy was very nerve-wracking and the innocence of pregnancy was gone but once I was past the 18w mark I felt much more confident.

My one piece of advice is that if you have doubts about your OB, switch. There is a long story but I still blame my first OB for basically not doing anything after I thought my water had broken.

I wish all of you luck in your TTC efforts!!

[Ericka_Jarett]

welcome Bubbas, you are more than welcome here.

[Bubbas]

Thanks, Ericka!

I know that there is a difference when TTC and being pg after a late-term loss than a m/c in the first trimester and that's why I think this is a great thread.

I posted this in the TTC after a loss thread and I'll post it here as well. I am going to start a M/C and Infant Loss Survivors thread but I'm not sure where to put it. Any suggestions?

[jennylou]

I posted this in the TTC after a loss thread and I'll post it here as well. I am going to start a M/C and Infant Loss Survivors thread but I'm not sure where to put it. Any suggestions?

Pregnancy and Beyond Groups? I mean, technically, those who lost are now beyond that pregnancy.

Either that or in Misc Groups, though I'm not sure how much foot traffic that gets.

[Astro]

How do you do it? How do you get happy for a friend who just announced her pregnancy when you just lost your kids?

We were pregnant with two boys after years of trying and a round of IVF. We lost them on September 5th at 16 weeks 1 day. The Dr's don't know why we lost them, everything looked great. The boys were perfect when born, they were just still born.

A good friend of ours just told us he and his wife are expecting again (they had a miscarriage at 10 weeks early in the year. They are 2 1/2 weeks behind where we should be.

I'm sitting here at work crying, wanting to be happy for them (I think a small part of me is), but a major portion of me is filled with sadness. I don't want anything to do with them for the next 6 months, but I know that's impossible. Are any of you able to be happy for pregnant friends due near the time your baby would have been born?

[Ericka_Jarett]

My friend is due about 7 weeks from when I was due (August 7th was my due date, lost my daughter in April at 24 weeks) My friend is due first week of November, she has a son already and is due to have another now. Her pregnancies have been pretty easy for her, her oldest is going to be 2 the same week she is due to deliver baby #2. She never suffered a miscarriage or infant loss (which I am very thankful for, I wouldn't wish either on my worst enemy) and here I was with my 1st baby and I lost her. Still struggling to get pregnant, was given a green light in May to try again starting in June.

I haven't seen my friend since we went camping together back in June for Father's Day weekend. I am due to see her sometime this week as my mom will be visiting and she wants to see my friend's mom who now lives with her. I don't know how I will feel since my friend will be 7 months along and I should be showing up at her house with my 1 month old.

[jennylou]

Astro - I am able to be happy for my sil. She is due in March. I think one of the only reasons I can find happiness for her is b/c her and bil tried for 2.5 years. That's not to say that on occassions I don't feel sad that it's not me. She's very good about being sensitive around me, always asking about us. I think she's treating me just like I treated her while pregnant. Since we both had trouble getting pregnant, we are more sensitive towards each other. Mind you, this is the same sil that I couldn't stand at one point. With us both experiencing IF we were able to work out our past differences and were able to become friends again. Honestly, she has been one of the very best people for me to be around since Andrew's death. I really gather that some people think we should be over it by now, but she's never given me that impression. She cries with me when I need to cry, laughs when I can laugh, etc. That said, I do have other issues with pregnant people/babies. Last week DH's cousin decided to tell us the "great news" about his sil giving birth to a healthy baby. While in reality it really is great news, I wanted to tell him to F off because I *don't* have a healthy baby with me and it was another reminder. I also have great issue with my youngest sister. She's a newly reformed meth addict, who had a shotgun wedding to her illegal alien, doesn't speak any English husband and they have a healthy baby, who is only a few weeks younger than Andrew would have been. Yeah, don't ask me to be happy for them! My step mom made the mistake of sending me pictures (I think it was just last week). Know that what you're feeling is perfectly normal and if you have to take a step back from the friendship, well, either they will be really good friends and understand and give you that space or you will drift apart from them. There is nothing wrong with you being selfish right now. You just had the most horrific thing happen to you that should never happen to anyone. Sending crappy internet hugs to you, hoping that some of my babble will help you in some way.

[LyLMyssChaos]

I'm sitting here at work crying, wanting to be happy for them (I think a small part of me is), but a major portion of me is filled with sadness. I don't want anything to do with them for the next 6 months, but I know that's impossible. Are any of you able to be happy for pregnant friends due near the time your baby would have been born?

As someone who's best friend lost their baby a month after I had my son, I can tell you that what you are feeling is normal, and honestly, if you explain your feelings to your friends? They most likely will understand. My friend is a member of this thread(LDS_Angel) and as she can tell you, we are always worried about bringing kid's around them too much. We tell them over and over that if it's too much, let us know and we would totally understand. You are in a very rough spot, you want to share in your friend's joy, but you are angry and jealous because you got your joy stolen from you. The best thing is for you to tell your friend that although you are happy for her, you really need some space right now, and you will let her know if/when you feel comfortable being around her/her baby again.

[LDS Angel 19]

For some reason I'm not getting updates for this thread.... anyway.

Astro... ((((HUGS)))) As LyLMyss mentioned, a good friend of mine has a young baby. When I was pregnant we always joked that we would hook up her son and my daughter some day. My gosh is that a painful memory now. But she's a great friend and has been amazing to me through all of this.
I think if you and your friend are close, you should just tell her exactly how you feel, and she will do her best to understand.

As for us, Allison's marker was delivered to the cemetary a few days ago. Not sure when it will be placed, hopefully soon.
I took a new position at work, starting Monday. It's a very hard change, since all I keep thinking is I should be going on maternity leave instead.

I hope you all have a peaceful weekend.

[LyLMyssChaos]

I just stumbled across this song on a miscarriage/infant loss messageboard that I lurk at, and it brought me so much comfort that I wanted to share it with you ladies(he said he wrote it about miscarriage.) I know that most of you had a name for your Angel, but maybe it will help none the less?

Listen to My Name (http://www.georgecanyonstreetteam.com/mynamepage/)

My Name
by George Canyon

It’s cold in here fells like everything’s upside down
I can feel you talking but I can barley make out the sound
I been kicking around these parts, feels like a year
I’m gonna change this world if I ever get out of here
She wants to dress me in pink, paint’s my bedroom blue
And I just laugh to myself, because only I know the truth
This love is my only emotion
Haven’t learned any fear any pain
It’s kind of funny with all this commotion
I guess they’ve got me, to blame
And they don’t even know my name
And they don’t even know my name

Well I’ve never felt so ready, think it’s finally time
Cause that big old world is waiting, and it’s mine all mine
Just then everything got real quiet, it got real bright
And a man took my hand said don’t worry, your mommas gonna be alright
Then he opened the gate, & I followed him in
Said you can wait right, here till it’s your turn again
And his love is the one true emotion
Heaven knows no fear no pain
I never got to set my wheels in motion
But they loved me just the same
And they never even knew name
Didn’t even know my name
You loved me just the same
And you didn’t even know my name

[jennylou]

astro - how are you doing today? I'm thinking about you. I remember feeling so out of it those first few weeks. It's like everything was going on, but I was still standing still.

How is everyone else doing?

Myself, I am just going through another 2WW. Ugh...this is the part that I dread of the cycle. I have no control over it. At least prior to O and leading up to it, we have the control of peeing on OPKs and trying to time things right. At least, I'm 5 dpo, so not too much longer to go.

Today Andrew would be four months old. It is also our anniversary, two years married now. We also passed up our dating anniversary earlier this month, and I didn't even think about it until right now. I guess that one we are done celebrating now.

I hope each of you are doing okay.

[Astro]

jennylou I'm doing ok. Some days are better than others, but that's expected. I hope you had a nice anniversary.

As for us, it's been 2 weeks, 2 days since the boys died. The Dr's still don't know why it happened, everything looked perfect. The path reports came back on the placentas with everything fine. I just want an answer. I want to know why it happened and how we can prevent it next time.... but I have to wait. My Dr thinks perhaps I have a clotting disorder, but she doesn't want to test for it until the end of October, after my body has returned to normal.

General question for all... How long did you bleed after the birth of your baby? I was told 2-3 weeks is normal.

thanks

[jennylou]

bleeding - It was heavy for about a week. Then it slowed down to the point that I could just wear a panty liner. I think by the end of four weeks I was still wearing a panty liner but it would just be spot occassionally. Then, I had my first pp period around 7 weeks.

good days and bad days - totally understandable. It will be four months tomorrow. I think now I have more "good" days. By "good" I mean that I'm not in complete meltdown state. I hope one day, I can have more joyful days.

Our anniversary was okay...thanks for asking. It was hard because nagging in my head was that Andrew should have also been four months old.

I also wanted to say that I understand wanting to know what happened. Andrew was ruled SIDS, which is just a diagnosis of exclusion. That can be so frustrating to think about because in every other way he was perfect and it just makes no sense.

[Sully130]

Hi ladies. I hope you are all doing as well as you can be doing. I think of you often.

By today's date, it has been five months since I lost my DD; though technically, tomorrow it has been 22 weeks. It's hard to believe it in a way. Sometimes it seems like so long ago, and sometimes it seems like yesterday.

good days, bad days... Five months later, I still feel that way. Not a day has passed that I haven't thought of my little girl and wonder what might have been...what should have been. I definitely have more good days than bad these days. And I'm starting to believe that my minister was right in the days surrounding her death. That "brighter days are truly ahead."

bleeding... - Geesh. I bled for almost eight weeks. It wasn't that heavy, but I had at least spotting for all of that time, every day. As if losing my child wasn't bad enough, I had that constant reminder. The doc said it usually lasts 4-6 weeks, but could last as many as eight. Of course my body decided to go to the extreme.

knowing what happened... - For me, this was a blessing and a curse. Knowing there was nothing I could have done to prevent what happened was "comforting" (if there can be such a thing), but knowing how incredibly unlikely it was to happen in the first place made me feel so sad, so angry, so cursed. And I was so distraught that my daughter had to be one in 60,000. Yet from the moment she was formed, she never had a chance in this world and that just breaks my heart. I guess in the end, it's good to know, but nothing ever makes you feel better, you know?

jennylou - Good luck in your 2WW.

LDSAngel - I hope having the marker gives you more closure. Good luck with the new position at work.

Astro - I hope and pray you will find the answers you seek. I wish you the best in your healing (emotionally and physically).

Everyone else, sorry for not mentioning you by name, but know I am thinking of you.

[amygrrl]

bleeding - i bled on and off for 6 weeks. sometime in the last 2 weeks of bleeding it might have actually been a period as i apparently o'd 7 weeks after delivering avery.

good days, bad days... - after almost 4 months, yes i still have them. this afternoon was particularly rough as i received an email from dh's uncle who did a family tree of the entire family dating back to the 1830's. everyone in the family was on it... everyone but avery. this killed me. perhaps they thought mentioning her would hurt... but they should have at least asked. my bad days are usually triggered by something like this... when it seems people don't recognize that she ever existed. i want to scream and yell at them... 'how could she not have been here when i have her ashes on my mantle to prove it?'

knowing what happened... - we don't know what happen, though they suspect a cord accident. this kills us. especially since the hospital screwed up and didn't do the autopsy. it's horrible knowing the answers might have been there if only someone hadn't 'lost the paperwork'. but i don't know how much peace that answer would have brought.

jennylou - your weight loss is incredible. i'm crossing my fingers for you.

Astro - hang in there. you absolutely will never be the same. but you will find a new normal that somehow includes this tragedy along with your happy times.

still hoping for everyone else, even if i didn't mention you by name.

[Lobeth]

Please forgive me if I’m overstepping my boundaries, but I thought that you ladies could give me the best advice. My heart goes out to all of you. Your strength is amazing.

A very good friend and co-worker (boss actually) of mine just lost her baby at 22 weeks late last week. We were due within two weeks of each other (I’m 24 weeks). We often talked about our pregnancies together and made plans to have a preggo ladies pamper party (along with another friend), and planned for our kids to get together after their births.

I can’t imagine what she is going through right now. I sent her a letter of support, but I feel that there’s more that I should be doing or saying. At the same time, I understand that she may not want to see or speak to me at all, so I’m trying to be sensitive to that as well. She plans to return to work mid-October, and when she does, I was considering taking a few days off, so she would not have to see me at work. Hopefully that would make it a little easier on her to ease back into her work.

My heart is just aching for her as I know how much she wanted her baby and I feel so helpless. Should I continue to email her periodically to let her know I’m thinking of her? What kinds of things did people do, or could have done to make things a little easier?

Many thanks for any advice you can give.

[Astro]

Lobeth that's very kind of you to recognize your friend might have difficulty seeing you. I'd say let her lead on if she wants to see you. What I mean by that is she knows you're there, due to your e-mails (keep sending them, but not every day). There are a few things I appreciated from friends.

1) meals delivered (have your DH drop them off, but not go in or stay).
2) my best friend sent cards once a week, just so I know she's thinking of us.
3) some good friends who also lost a baby gave us a hallmark christmas ornament. It's a baby wrapped up in a little blanket with wings.
4) I think you're doing the best thing, letting her know you're there. Don't take offense if she avoids you sometimes or breaks into tears when she sees you.

[jennylou]

Lobeth - I'm going to agree with Astro here, let her take the lead on when she wants to see you. I can tell you that personally, I would probably not want to see someone who was so close in the pregnancy to me. Just continue to try and be her friend, through cards or emails.

Astro - do you know where your friend found that ornament?

[Ericka_Jarett]

I was wondering about the ornament too.

Definately keep in touch with her as you are now, glad to hear you say you wouldn't take offense to if she doesn't want to talk or see you right away.

I know we got together in May with some friends for a camping trip she was just about 14 weeks at the time. We saw them as for fireworks the 4th of July, but that was it for me, I just went with my mom last week to see my friend and her mom. I just needed time to get through the rough points in my life with dealing with my loss. I didn't tell my friend this but she e-mailed me a few times in the time we didn't see each other. I only said at this visit I needed a little time to myself since losing the baby. She completely understood and tried not to talk about her pregnancy much, unless she got a clue from me that I was interested in hearing about it. She is due the 1st week of November. I did tell her that the part that was the hardest with it being 5 months now, is that I am still not pregnant, not even the mourning of Rebekah. Don't take that wrong I love her and miss her everyday, but the pain is decreasing a little, the hard part is what AF shows up, it's another month I won't be pregnant. I am not looking at prayerfully going to have a June baby now. Only weeks will tell if that will happen or not.

[Astro]

I looked for the ornament on line and couldn't find it. I'll get the info at home and post it later this week.

[Astro]

I found it. It's actually from Hallmark. It's one of their Department 56 ornaments (not a regular ornament). Here's a link to a bad picture. The actual item is very beautiful, all cream colored porcelain.

http://www.cherrylanecollection.com/html/7249.html

[jennylou]

Thank you for the link, astro.

Ugh, another bust of a cycle. :( Why does this have to be so hard? Why can't I get pregnant the first cycle I want to like so many others? :(

[Ericka_Jarett]

Just catching up now.

good days, bad days... Five months later. I am always thinking of Rebekah, have a mini memorial set up on the entertainment center. It's been 5 months already and on the 18th it hit me like a ton of bricks. It wasn't so much about mourning Rebekah (although I miss her terribly) it was because AF had showed up the day before and I still wasn't pregnant. Each month goes by and it gets further and further away from when I hoped to be pregnant. Right now I am looking at if I get pregnant this month I will have a late June baby.

bleeding... - I bled for about 4 days sort of heavy and than lightly for about another week. I had 4 week pp appt, although I went to the doctor at 2 weeks (I was going on a trip and wanted to know what I could and couldn't do) I actually stopped bleeding the day before we left for the trip and was done with it until I came home from the trip I went to my 4 week appt the doctor said there was still blood at my cervix, sure enough later that day it started again for 5 days, so I thought it was my first AF. Went back to the doctor 2 weeks later to get re-cultured (had to get cultures and blood drawn to make sure I was free of infections, was found to have 2 bacterias that I needed to be retested for) When asked when my last AF was I said the dates. Well a week later AF showed up and lasted for 4 days, so the other I still have no clue about.

knowing what happened... - I was told at the hospital her lungs were not developed enough, blood work came back normal so far at that point. Found out 2 weeks later, Rebekah actually died of chorioamnionitis (placenta infection) which slowed her growth down and caused the lung issue. Then I found out more about the infection 2 weeks later and got the cultures. A week later found out that I actually had 2 cervical bacteria that caused the infection to get into the placenta in the first place. I felt that it was all my fault, I caused her passing. So it's good to know in a way because I will be watched more closely and tested more often. Mad at myself cause maybe if I didn't have sex a few days earlier it wouldn't have gotten in, wonder if the last doctor I saw at a regular appt had measured me and done the routine things she would have caught that something wasn't right. If the doctor the day I delivered had checked my cervix instead of letting the nurse say whatever she did (the nurse didn't check, she said there was too much fluid, when I told the doctor at my appt, she said I thought you were checked) Rebekah was 1 in 10% of babies that die from this infection, usually in the 1st trimester though, so they say.

Sorry for writing a book on this.

[jennylou]

Has anyone been to any support groups? What can I expect?

[sophiapb]

Has anyone been to any support groups? What can I expect?

We went to our first group last month. It meets from 7-9 the second Tuesday of every month on a meeting room at a local hospital. The way this one worked, the moderator went first and told her story. After that, the couples who had been going to group the longest told their story and then the floor was opened up to newbies if they wanted to share their story as well. Everyone ended up talking at one point or another. There was one woman who came alone, everyone else was in couples. The whole set up was pressure-free and totally supportive. Nothing you said was right or wrong, it was just how you were feeling. There was a lot of nodding as people related to each others stories. Everyone there had either lost a mid- to late-term baby or soon after delivery. Unless someone has gone through that, no one can really fathom the emotional pain. For the first time since we lost our son, we really felt like someone understood our situation. We had gone to a therapist a couple of times before going to the group and I felt that the group was much more helpful although I did like our therapist. Honestly, I wish I had started going to a support group earlier. We didn't even know about this group until three months after our loss.
Definitely go if you have the chance.

[jennylou]

Thanks sophia. I just found out about this group, it's been about 4.5 months. I still have trouble talking about our loss. I can talk about the specifics...what the doc said, etc but actually talking on a more personal level is still very difficult for me without having a mini meltdown. It helps to talk here and in my lj, but I realize it could be completely different in a IRL setting. I do agree with many of your sentiments...no one will understand the pain, unless they'd been there before. By the way...is this the first time you've posted here in this thread? I don't recall seeing you before, so if it is...welcome to our little group. It's no place that any of us would like to be, but I'm for one, thankful that there are others who understand.

How is everyone else? How is ttc going, ericka, ldsangel (and anyone else I missed)? How are our preggos [b]amy and sully? And thanks to all our moms who stop in to encourage us, we need all the hope we can get. :)

[Ericka_Jarett]

HI Jenny,

Thanks for asking about me and TTC. We are seeing what happens this month, I have temped a little this month, but not every day like the last 2 months, just makes me feel bad to go through all I did last cycle just to have it end up a bust, you know? FF said we had high for the BD and everything and than to get a BFN and have AF show the next day, ughhhhh!!!! This month hubby is constantly asking me what day I am on, when I should be Oing and wondering when he needs to forget about getting any for a day so that he can "build up" (his words) I would love to have a June baby now. I was getting a little upset talking about TTC and hubby said, remember God's timing, it will only happen in HIS timing. I know that in my heart and mind, just crying out to the Lord constantly about it at this point in time. I want to be pregnant again so bad. I watch a Baby Story from time to time and seems almost every time the women are saying, I can't wait to have my body back, I hate being pregnant, I can't ..., I hate... I want to scream enjoy every minute of it, it can be taken away at anytime. (sorry my little vent there)

We are going to Disney for Christmas this year, as we have a Missions conference to attend down in Cocoa the last week of December. Than we are hoping to get approved for a trip to TN for a VBS conference. I don't have our VBS date set for church yet, because I am waiting to see what happens. This year's was August 1-5 and that was set before I found out I was pregnant with an EDD of August 7th.

[LDS Angel 19]

Jenny, you'll have to let us know how the group is, if you go. There's one near me but I haven't had the courage to show up yet.

Right now, I'm in TTC limbo! I took a break from temping this cycle, today is CD32, no AF, but no BFP either. I think it really could go either way.


October has already been a hard month for me. Alli's due date is coming up. I think about her all the time. It's so hard to be at work and be stressed when I know I could be at home enjoying maternity leave by now. And this TTC business is not helping. *sigh*
I think I mentioned that Allison's marker was delivered to the cemetary, about two weeks ago. And it hasen't been placed yet. We've called a bunch of times. At first they said they lost our paperwork, and then yesterday afternoon they left us a very rude message and said they would 'get to it when they had a chance' ARGGHH! You'd think they'd understand that this is important to me and have a little compassion.

Back to work....

[LyLMyssChaos]

I just wanted to stop in and say that I know that LDS Angel has been really tied up with her current job. It doesn't give her much time to get on the computer at work anymore, but I did see her over the weekend, and she is doing ok. There still isn't word on Allison's headstone ( I swear if it is not in place by the 15th, I will be wringing someone's neck and tell them I'll just do it for them!) I also know that she is currently in the "testing" phase and so far receiving BFN's, but no AF either, so I'm keeping my finger's crossed for her.

ETA: Sorry Shell, we crossposted!! LOL

[LDS Angel 19]

Gosh Tiff, you know my life just as good as I do.... STALKER!!! :D

[LyLMyssChaos]

Jenny, you'll have to let us know how the group is, if you go. There's one near me but I haven't had the courage to show up yet.


If you feel you want to check one out and Aaron isn't quite ready or you just feel you need a little more support, just let me know and I'll go with ya to a meeting to check it out if ya want!

[LyLMyssChaos]

Gosh Tiff, you know my life just as good as I do.... STALKER!!! :D

What good is a best friend if ya can't stalk them?? ;)

*sorry about the hijack* We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread! LOL

[amygrrl]

hey girls...

saw your note, jenny. i'm doing ok. we've just finished the first trimester, but since i've never had a miscarriage and only a stillbirth, that wasn't really a milestone for me, kwim? we are getting ready for a picnic at avery's tree in 2 weeks. and my brother had his baby today. thank goodness it was a boy, caleb. i don't know what i'd do if he had a girl. i'm getting better at telling people when i'm hurt by what they say. my mom bought a new house and wants a tree for her yard for christmas. i offered to buy her a redwood like avery's tree. she liked this idea, but then decided she needed to plant a tree for each grandchild she has. this really bugged me. so in a very calm and non-confrontational way, i told her that we didn't want her to do that. that the tree was all she would ever have of avery, but these future grandchildren, well she'd be able to love on them all she wanted. there's so much those baby's will get that avery will never have, so shouldn't she be able to have just this one special thing to herself. my mom immedately agreed... as long as it didn't mean she couldn't plant other trees in the yard just cause she wants more trees.

LDS Angel 19 - if you don't smack someone at the cemetary, i'll do it for you!

Ericka_Jarett - i know it's hard to accept that you have no control over the timing. we wrestled with this a lot when we found out i was pregnant with this one only a few weeks after delivering. we had just decided that we wouldn't be ready for another few months when it happened.

jennylou - how are you doing? i've been thinking about you!

sophiapb - which group did you go to? we were thinking about going, but with the new pregnancy, we didn't want anyone to feel uncomfortable around us.

[Sully130]

Hi ladies. I hope you are all doing as well as you can be.

LDS Angel - I hope you are doing well as your due date approaches and I hope that Alli's headstone has been placed. I know how important that must be to you.

amygrrl - I just had to comment about this:
and my brother had his baby today. thank goodness it was a boy, caleb. i don't know what i'd do if he had a girl.
My brother's wife is pregnant with their first child (will be my parents first living grandchild assuming he/she is born well). She is due 7.5 weeks before me. Anyway, I have this feeling that she is having a girl and I am having a boy. And in a way, I hate it because it's just too soon from me losing my daughter...and it is just hard for me to handle (as selfish as that may be). So I totally understand what you are saying and I'm glad it was a boy too. :) Oh, and good for you for speaking your mind to your Mother. I'm sure she appreciated your honesty and candor. I think the tree is a great idea.

Ericka - I'm thinking of you and hoping something wonderful happens for you very soon.

jennylou - Did you go to the group? If so, how did it go? Otherwise, how are you doing? Thanks for asking about me.

~~~~
As for me, I'm doing well. I am now 10w3d so I feel like I've escaped the miscarriage window and now my fears turn to genetic issues. I'm really not obsessing about it like I thought I would. I'm relatively calm. I go next week for my first Level II ultrasound to check for things. Then I should have two more over the next month or two. Hopefully we'll know by Thanksgiving if this baby is going to make it (genetically speaking...of course as we all know, there's always a whole different set of worries too!).

I wanted to share something with all of you that was in my church bulletin a month or so ago. Once a month we have a full-color insert that is like a little newsletter packed with little tiny snipets of information and stories. At the top of the page last month was this:

Grieve The Loss
The pain of losing a child is not lessened because the child is an infant or born with physical infirmities. Anyone who mistakenly thinks, "You didn't have your child for very long, so you won't be as sad," is very wrong. There is intense bonding even before a child is born.

The loss of an infant is also the loss of all-that-might-have-been -- all the talents and giggles, all the love and joy -- that comes when you watch your child grow up. It hurts a grieving parent to hear a well-meaning friend say, "God must have needed another angel in heaven," because such a show of sympathy seems to ignore the powerful, legitimate sorrow.
--Barbara Bartocci, FROM HURTING TO HAPPY

Not that all of us don't know this to be true, I just thought it was a welcome reminder that what I feel is okay. And that goes for how I feel toward otherwise well-intentioned people who say the wrong thing, or how I feel about the great loss I endured. So I just thought I'd share.

Take care all of you. I hope sunshine makes its way into your lives in wonderful ways soon.

[jennylou]

The group is next Thursday night, so I'm planning on going.

My SIL is pregnant, and just found out a couple weeks ago that it is a girl. I was so relieved, which may sound horrible, but I was.

I am up and down. I am getting frustrated that I am still not pregnant. This is round 4 of clomid. It's the second of 100 mg. It makes me a bear to be around. I just really want to be pregnant....I can't bear the thought of the holidays if I'm not. And really, we only need to get through Thanksgiving as Christmas Day we'll be flying to Hawaii, which will take our minds off of things.

but since i've never had a miscarriage and only a stillbirth, that wasn't really a milestone for me, kwim?
Completely. I don't know when I will ever feel comfortable because it was an infant loss. I'll be worried through the pregnancy, just like I was with Andrew, only I won't feel relief when we have our next baby because that's when I had the rug pulled out from under me.

[sophiapb]

is this the first time you've posted here in this thread? I don't recall seeing you before, so if it is...welcome to our little group.

Yeah, I revealed myself as a lurker on this thread by answering your question. There have been so many times when I've wanted to jump in on this discussion but have restrained myself.
I was pregnant with twins and at 36 wks 6 days went to the hospital when I was feeling minimal movement from the little boy. Our son, Alexander, was delivered still born later that evening but his sister, Alexa, came out strong, healthy and yelling.
Alexa has been our lifesaver and I don't know what I would have done without her. However, I still think about Alexander everyday and even four months later, still cry at least a few times a week.

which group did you go to? we were thinking about going, but with the new pregnancy, we didn't want anyone to feel uncomfortable around us.

We went to a group at St. Peter's Hospital in New Brunswick NJ. Are you a Jersey girl?
I would not worry about going to a group while pregnant. Our therapist tried to prepare us for anyone who might feel like we didn't belong there because we did have a surviving child but that was not an issue at all. Losing a child is a devastating thing whether you have a surviving child or went on to have more children or whatever. Anyone who has lost a child realizes the birth of another child does not replace the one who was lost.

[Astro]

Sophiapb Hi. I'm glad you're lurking here as I remember you from the twinmama's thread. I was very sorry to hear about Alexander.

[sophiapb]

Astro-I felt like I had the breath knocked out of me when I read your post about losing your sons. I can't tell you how many times I've started an e-mail to you but didn't want to freak you out or even if you knew who I was. The first name we chose for our son Alexander was Stephen and Phillip had been another consideration so I sort of felt like I knew your boys (sounds stupid even as I write it). I'm so sad for you and your DH as well as all the other women on this thread, most of whom I knew or at least knew of, on the WC.
Don't take this the wrong way, ladies, but it's lousy being a member of this thread. :(

[LDS Angel 19]

Don't take this the wrong way, ladies, but it's lousy being a member of this thread. :(

I totally agree with you. It's so horrible that any of us would need a thread like this. But I am greatful that it's here for those of us that do.


Just got a call from DH, Allison's marker was installed today!! I am so relieved.

[LyLMyssChaos]

Just got a call from DH, Allison's marker was installed today!! I am so relieved.

Oh good, now I can put away my butt kicking boots and use my energy for something more important like, I dunno, say planting flowers on Saturday?

[LDS Angel 19]

Aaron was talking about working Saturday, and next Saturday is her actual duedate, so I think we'll do it then if that works for you guys. I don't know though, at this point we might just be better off waiting until spring.

[LyLMyssChaos]

Whenever works for me, but I thought you guys were going to his aunt's wedding on your due date, or have you decided against that? And it's not too late, there are actually some really pretty fall blooming plants.

[LDS Angel 19]

Still haven't made a decision on the wedding. I think it's at like four... We could do the flowers earlier in the day.

[LDS Angel 19]

There is a pic of Allison's marker in my LJ, if anyone wants to see it let me know and I'll add you to my friends list.

I hope all of you are doing well. Still no action over here, CD35 and no news either way. I'm just ready to get on with the next cycle.

Have a good weekend Ladies.

[jennylou]

Is anyone doing anything on October 15th? I checked out that website, but I was still unsure as to what exactly they are trying to do...seems like sell merchandise?

[LDS Angel 19]

Bah CC ate my post!!

Anyway, Oct 15th we'll be planting flowers at Allison's grave, and then going to DH's aunt's wedding. :rolleyes:

As for october15th.com, as much as I love the cause, they seriously need to get someone in there and redesign/udate thier site.
As for what they are actually all about, here's the mission statement from the site:

To diligently work with local, state and national leaders to obtain a National Day of Remembrance recognizing the need for community education and awareness when a family loses a child to miscarriage, stillbirth, and/or neonatal death, while promoting the need for openness, understanding and compassion during a family's time of grief and most importantly, allowing those who wish, to remember these children who we now hold dear.

[LyLMyssChaos]

On October 15th we will be taking a family trip to the pumpkin patch and I'm going to get a small one for our "Angel Baby" and since we plan on painting them instead of cutting them this year, I'm going to paint an angel on it. Then we will be going with LDS to plant flowers for Alli, and then we're going to send our kids to my mom's and spend some time just grieving. It is supposed to be "Sweetest Day," but I'm really not feeling up to celebrating that with it being what was supposed to be our Angel's 1st birthday. I'm thinking about trying to talk DH into letting us get a small birthday cake or something like that, but I don't think he'll go for it.

[LDS Angel 19]

That would be so sweet to get a cake. Great idea. :)

[LyLMyssChaos]

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/sign/sign0101.gif
That would be so sweet to get a cake. Great idea. :)
You want to? We could do one together?? Unless you think that will be too emotional for you guys? I mean, I've had over a year to come to terms with losing my baby, it still might be too fresh for you guys.

[LDS Angel 19]

Ya know, like I've been saying, I have no idea how I'll feel. I think this time I'll let you guys get some time to yourselves. We'll have cake for Allison next June.

[jennylou]

Hi ladies....

Thanks for the explanation on Oct 15th. I wish they were using it more to spread the word....

Tonight is our first support group, so we'll see how it goess.

[LDS Angel 19]

I hope the group goes well! I found by me that meets next week, I'm thinking about going. Let us know how it was.

[sophiapb]

Hey Jenny-How did your group go? I hope it helped you.
We had our group last night as well (it's the second Thursday of the month as opposed to the second Tuesday as I originally posted). Last time DH told our story and I filled in missing info. This time I told our story and started bawling from the first word out of my mouth. It was very therapeutic though and I'm glad I went. There was a woman at group who lost twin boys at 15 weeks just the week before. She didn't know it was twins until she went for a check up and the U/S showed twins without heartbeats. She was a total mess. I don't know if I could have gone to group that early and was totally awed by her bravery. I didn't see anyone the first two weeks we were home from the hospital but this woman was able to search out help within the first week.
There was another woman there who had lost her little girl twin but her little boy twin was born strong and healthy. She went on to have another daughter but she said that two years later, she still thinks about her first daughter everyday. We spoke after the group and she told me about a web support group that deals with the loss of multiples. I'm going to check it out.

[jennylou]

Thanks for asking sophia. It was okay. I got a weird vibe from one of the husbands there and then come to find out it's because I should have gotten a weird vibe from him! Anyways, I won't go into details here (it's all in my lj). There was a lady there who had triplets and lost one of her triplets about 9 months old...I thought of you, sophia because of that. On one hand I don't know how you do it with the constant reminder of your other little one right in front of you. And on the other hand, maybe it helps you get through it because you have a baby that needs taking care of. I dunno, seems hard no matter how you slice it. Your case is different too, I suppose, than the rest of us.....we're all talking about TTC here as well and I haven't seen you talk about that (of course, maybe you are!). Maybe I should change the title of this thread to reflect that we welcome all moms that are grieving late term losses/stillbirths and infants?

I bawled telling our story as well.

[sophiapb]

I got a weird vibe from one of the husbands there and then come to find out it's because I should have gotten a weird vibe from him! Anyways, I won't go into details here (it's all in my lj).

Can not believe you left us dangling like that! Now I've got to figure out LJ so I can see what kind of freak this guy was.

Concerning TTC, we are going to try again Feb/March 06. That's another reason why I lurk here.

Edited because I can't post my info in your journal to gain access to your journal. Aaargh! My username is sophiapb if you wouldn't mind adding me to your friends list.

[Astro]

sophia could you please post the information about the web support group that deals with the loss of multiples.

thanks

[sophiapb]

This is the website for SHARE, the organization that sponsors my monthly group. It's a very good website for anyone dealing with the loss of a pregnancy or infant.

http://www.nationalshareoffice.com/index.shtml



This is the webgroup that was recommended to me by the other twinmother last night. I have yet to check it out thoroughly.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/eLIMBO/


And this is a website I found on the SHARE website that deals with the loss of multiples.

http://www.climb-support.org/


Called my mom this morning to see how Alexa was doing (my mom moved out from Michigan to live with us and to care for Alexa while we are at work) and asked me how the group went last night. I talked to her a little about it and she said "Well, I'm of the mindset that you need to care for the living." :rolleyes: Thanks, Mom! Thanks for letting me think I'm neglecting my daughter for going to a support group for the loss of my son.

[LDS Angel 19]

Called my mom this morning to see how Alexa was doing (my mom moved out from Michigan to live with us and to care for Alexa while we are at work) and asked me how the group went last night. I talked to her a little about it and she said "Well, I'm of the mindset that you need to care for the living." :rolleyes: Thanks, Mom! Thanks for letting me think I'm neglecting my daughter for going to a support group for the loss of my son.

Yikes. I can relate though. Most times when I talk to my mom all she talks about is how I should have eaten better and had my teeth cleaned while I was PG. Yeah. that's EXACTLY what I need to hear! :(

[LyLMyssChaos]

Yikes. I can relate though. Most times when I talk to my mom all she talks about is how I should have eaten better and had my teeth cleaned while I was PG. Yeah. that's EXACTLY what I need to hear! :(
I'm sorry, but in no way did you lose Alli because of how you ate or because of your teeth!! That is a bunch of bull!! Ummm, hello??? Have ya seen my teeth??? And yeah, well, I've got 2 healthy babies through that, so to heck with that teeth garbage! And ya saw how I ate with Timothy! LOL I swear, if I ever hear your Mom say that, so help me!

[Astro]

Called my mom this morning to see how Alexa was doing (my mom moved out from Michigan to live with us and to care for Alexa while we are at work) and asked me how the group went last night. I talked to her a little about it and she said "Well, I'm of the mindset that you need to care for the living." :rolleyes: Thanks, Mom! Thanks for letting me think I'm neglecting my daughter for going to a support group for the loss of my son.

I think you are caring for the living by caring for yourself. You need to take care of yourself (attend groups if that helps) in order to be there for your daughter. You are NOT neglecting her. (just my humble opinion) :)

Thanks for posting the group info.

[kinaida]

Hi ladies,

I saw the title of your thread and my heart goes out to each and every one of you. I cannot fathom the degree of loss that each of you have experienced.

My heart goes out to each one of you. Praying for those who are TTC and for those who are already pregnant that you'd be blessed with healthy babies...

Kindra

[amygrrl]

and please give me an honest answer cause my husband and i don't know if we are over reacting or not....

so tonight we found out that if my brother and SIL who just had a baby boy (his due date was only 3 weeks after Avery's) had had a girl, they were going to name her Emery. I assume this also means that if they have a girl in the future they would name her Emery. Emery just seems WAY to close to Avery. really plain old inappropriate. This is really upsetting to us. My husband actually says they are mean and hateful people now because he can't imagine someone being so clueless as to not think about how much the 2 names sound alike. i think it's weird b/c in our extended family, they are likely to get the 2 names confused. they seem to do that a lot. heck my great grandmother called my brother the wrong name from the day he was born until the day she died 20+ years later. also, i think if it was me, i would NEVER want to consider a name so close to my dead neice's name for fear that people would think of the my dead neice everytime they said my daughter's name or looked at her.

but maybe we are being overly sensitive.

what do you think?

[Jessie]

Hi ladies, I wanted to post and let you all know that I think of all of you often.

I was looking back on my LJ post from October 15th of last year. I had posted this poem and thought I would share it with you.

Dear Mommy and Daddy,

I did not die young.
I lived my span of life,
Within your body,
And within your love.

There are many,
Who have lived long lives,
And who have not been loved as me.

If you would honor me,
Then speak my name,
And number me among your family.

If you would honor me.
Than strive to live in love,
For in that love, I live.

Never ever doubt,
That we will meet again.

Until that happy day,
I will grow with God
And wait for you.
-Author Unknown

[Astro]

amygrrl The names are very close. Did your brother and SIL give any special reason for picking the name? Is it a family name she wanted to use? I could understand it in that case, otherwise I'd think they just weren't thinking. I'd be upset if I were in your shoes, but I'm not sure how hard I'd push back on them. I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt, that they didn't realize how hurtful it'd be for you. Of course that makes them clueless idiots.... not sure if they'd rather be rude twits or clueless idiots. ;)


How long did it take for everyone's cycle to get back on track. Our boys were still-born September 5th, and I'm still waiting for my cycle to start. I'm not known as a real patient person, so it's bugging me. I want it to hurry up and get here so I can continue healing.

thanks

[jennylou]

Astro - surprisingly, I had a period about 7 weeks PP. Shocked the crap out of me since I normally need some provera to jump start my period.

[Bubbas]

Astro

I got AF exactly 4 weeks after I delivered my first son. I know that's not the norm but apparently my body just didn't skip a beat.

[LDS Angel 19]

Allison was born June 17th and AF was back the first week of August, so about 6 weeks.

We found a support group around here finally. Meeting is tonight. I'm pretty nervous.

[jennylou]

michelle - Good luck at your meeting.

Also, amy, I didn't mean to ignore your earlier question, but I think I told you in lj what asshats they're being with that name.

[amygrrl]

my body is screwy too. it seems that i o'd 7 weeks after delivering avery and that's when i got pregnant with this one. i actually never had what i thought was a period, just bled off and on for 5 weeks.

update on the name thing... i actually sent my brother an email last week that everyone agreed, including our therapist, was exceptionally nice which asked them to not use a name that was close to avery. he didn't respond. nor did they respond to my email stating that we were VERY happy for them but wanted to be off the 'baby update' emails as it was still very painful for us. i guess you guys can decide what that means about them.

[jennylou]

Amy, I too had to ask not to be on the baby updates email list for my youngest sister's baby that was born two weeks after Andrew. If people don't understand, I say screw 'em...we've got to be able to do what's right for us right now. Selfish? Yes, and we deserve to be selfish during this time.

For our now pregnant members, can you tell me how long it took to get pregnant again? How was the previous birth (ie, vaginal, c/s)? Thanks.

[amygrrl]

7 weeks to get pregnant after delivery. but i am a complete anomoly and the dr.s are stumped. oh, and i had a vaginal delivery. i think what might have made a difference for me was the combination of hormones from the pregnancy, i was doing really good on the low carb thing after the delivery, i had lost 15 pounds with the pregnancy with avery, i was working out every day with hard core cardio, and a few days after i O'd i went and had a 2 hour massage (ok..mostly i add in the last one b/c now dh thinks i should get 2 hour massages regularly since they seem to be so 'good' for me ;) )

and yup... they might say we're selfish, but i don't think there's a person with a sensitive bone in their body who would blame us. knowing this makes me feels so much better since this is one case where i feel just about EVERYONE would be in our corner if this turns into a big issue. heck, our grief counselor would likely get on the phone with them and set them straight in a heartbeat if we asked her to.

[Sully130]

Hi ladies. I've been following along but have been way too busy to post. I thought of y'all this weekend on the 15th. The infant loss group at my hospital had a "walk to remember" but I just didn't feel up to participating. I just still feel like I have to handle a lot of my grief and recovery on my own.

Anyway, I thought I'd pop in and answer a few questions.

Return of AF... I'm a freak. I bled for eight weeks (mostly light spotting, but enough to wear at least a pantyliner). Then I had two weeks with nothing, then AF came.

Pregnancy after delivery... I had a vaginal birth at 23 weeks, so Jenny, I know it's not exactly the same. Anyway, then I bled for eight weeks, then my period two weeks later, then say probably four weeks until the next...then I got pregnant that following cycle (so I guess I ovulated about two weeks later). So, all total, let's see...16 weeks post-delivery I conceived? We were very lucky. I know that's not the norm. I hope it happens for you very soon though.

Amygrrl - I'm sorry about your brother and SIL. That would be hard on me too. You are not being "overly sensitive."

Jenny - I didn't realize your sister had a baby so soon after Andrew's birth. I can't imagine what that must be like for you. I don't blame you at all for keeping your distance for a while.

Everyone else...take care!

[jennylou]

Sully - Yeah, it's my youngest sister. The father is an illegal alien (who she married...so I guess he could become legal now?) whom she met when my parents shipped her off to Texas to live with my Aunt so that she could get off of Meth.

[Delta]

I just wanted to post here to offer my support for what you guys are going through. I am so sorry for all of your losses, and I wish you luck on your subsequent TTC efforts. I think it is impossible to understand unless you have been there.

Almost 3 years ago we lost our son at 26 weeks - he died in utero due to my placenta malfunctioning because of my then-undiagnosed clotting condition. My husband saw him after he was born, but I chose not to. However, I later held him, wrapped in a blanket, at the funeral home before we buried him. I am so grateful for getting that chance. As you all understand, that was the darkest time of my life.

We got pregnant about 6 months later and that entire pregnancy was absolutely terrifying - and we had major complications at birth but today our 2nd son is a happy and healthy 21 months old.

I remember how painful it was to even see moms and their babies out and about in that time period. I remember thinking there should be some type of ban on moms 'flaunting' their babies to those who had lost their own. Of course this was ridiculous thinking but that was how I felt. Much less trying to be happy for others. I couldn't do it. I was devastated when my sister got pregnant 2 months later. Of course I got over it and I love my nephew to pieces, but the pain at the time was unbearable. I too remember the silence of friends, but what I remember more clearly is the support I got from my friends at WC. They were amazing.

The loss of my son changed my life and my thinking profoundly. I think of him every day and wonder what he would have been like. He would have been about two and a half today had things not gone so wrong. But at the same time, had this not happened, we would not have had our precious son we have now. The only thing that makes sense to me about this is that God had a plan for us and a meaning for our baby we lost - his loss changed us forever, for the better and made us the parents we are today.

I guess you could say we are TTC again - though AF is still not back due to nursing, but we are not preventing. Who knows how long it will take. I am not in a big hurry though. I am terrified of going through another pregnancy.

[amygrrl]

that's one thing we hang to on tightly... my aunt sent us a card with note that said one day our future children would be so grateful that avery paved the way for us to become the parents that we are. i'd like to think that this little new one will understand how so much about the way we love her is driven by the loss of avery.

[LDS Angel 19]

Lots of activity in here, yay. :) The group last night was actually very nice. DH went with me, there were about 5 other ladies and one other couple. Everyone else had been there before, so it seemed like we did most of the talking, telling our story. One woman there was pregnant at the same time as her best friend, their duedates were a few days apart. Her friends baby was stillborn at 37 weeks, and then her baby was stillborn a week later, both because the cord wrapped around them. I can only imagine going through that with your best friend at the same time. Like she said,It was like lightning had struck twice.
Anyway I really enjoyed the group and we will most likely go again next month.

Delta Thank you so much for that post.

[Bubbas]

The loss of my son changed my life and my thinking profoundly. I think of him every day and wonder what he would have been like. He would have been about two and a half today had things not gone so wrong. But at the same time, had this not happened, we would not have had our precious son we have now. The only thing that makes sense to me about this is that God had a plan for us and a meaning for our baby we lost - his loss changed us forever, for the better and made us the parents we are today.


This is exactly how I feel as well. I miss my first son so much but had I not lost him, then I wouldn't have Zachary today and I just can't imagine my life without him.

[jennylou]

Michelle - glad that the group went well. :)

Delta and Bubbas - thank you for your posts.

[jennylou]

Just bumping us back up. :)

How are you all doing?

[LDS Angel 19]

Hi. Things are still a little rough over here. I'm just ready for October to be over.

[Astro]

just checking in. I'm doing better, slowly. I finally started my first cycle since the boys birth in the beginning of September. Still no answers yet as to what happened, but my OB thinks it was possibly clotting related. She's running tests, and the results might be back in the next couple weeks.

Not sure what religion everyone here is (and I don't need to know). Just wanted to let every one know this Sunday is All Souls Day at our church. It's the day where prayers are said for all those who've passed away this year. We're going in memory of Alex and Ryan. If you're religious, you might want to check your churches.

[Ericka_Jarett]

Hi Ladies,

It's been a while since I have been in here. Sorry to hear of the hard times for some of us. The 18th was Rebekah's 6 month anniversary, I was pretty good, better then when it was the 5 month anniversary. I think because at 5 months I got my period the day before, this month it came a few days later. I am not charting my temps this month, I am hiding the thermometer. We are busy planning our Disney trip for Christmas Eve and than the Missions conference a few days later, will be away from computer access until the 3rd of January when the trip happens.

I truly am seeing what happens this month, trying not to freak of what day it is and such. I have a good idea of when we will have our VBS this year, it will be in mid-July, cause even if I am pregnant my due date would be late July, early August.

[jennylou]

Just wanted to post to bump us up.

It looks like we're going to have to take our fifth cycle off to do the doc's office not calling in a new prescription.

How is everyone else doing?

[LDS Angel 19]

Jenny, poo on your dr's office! That's a bummer.

Doing alright over here. Just waiting really. I'm hoping AF will show up and this cycle will end in about a week, and we can get back on the TTC train.

[Ericka_Jarett]

Not a whole lot going on here. Waiting to O still. Think these will sum everything up on my life :)

http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt/d/4;10713;112/st/20051214/e/4th+Anniversary/k/e5cf/event.png
http://tickers.TickerFactory.com/ezt/d/4;10707;130/st/20051224/e/Our+Florida+Vacation/k/0766/event.png
(http://www.TickerFactory.com/)

http://www.snugglepie.com/ezb/166050.png (http://www.snugglepie.com) * http://www.snugglepie.com/cb/22768.png (http://www.snugglepie.com) * http://www.snugglepie.com/ezb/221783.png (http://www.snugglepie.com)

[LDS Angel 19]

Gosh I can't believe it's only 51 days till Christmas. That's slightly insane.

[jennylou]

How's everyone handling the upcoming holidays?

For Thanksgiving, we're all supposed to get together at DHs Aunts house. I don't think that I want to go. I think I'd rather go out to the cemetary and then go do some work (we're in the middle of a rehab on an apt - so we've got plenty to do!). I just don't really feel all that thankful after the events of this year. Why would I want to celebrate Thanksgiving? People seem to be horrified at the thought that I don't want to celebrate.

For Christmas, well, we will celebrate Christmas Eve with DHs immediate family. Then, Christmas Day we will spend the day flying and in airports. No real loss for me, since I don't particularly want to celebrate Christmas either this year.

It sucks because these were supposed to be happy holidays for us this year and we were looking forward to them.

[Astro]

I'm so upset right now. Since the still-birth of our boys in the beginning of September, I've been having to go through oodles of tests while the Dr's try to determine what happened. All my tests have come back normal (which stinks because it means they don't know why the boys were born at 16 weeks). All of this has been done in preparation of our next IVF round. I've been talking with the RE, saw her in October. I told her I'd like to cycle in November, she said that might be a bit early. I went through my last round of tests this Tuesday and was given the go ahead to proceed. I called the RE, and the nurse said I can't cycle this year. What the F! Apparently the new "lab" they're using for the embryo storage requires you to sign up over two months in advance.... if they have an opening! Gee, thanks, My cycle isn't exactly perfect, I don't know when my next cycle will start or the one after that, why the hell didn't my RE get my name on the list since she knew I was going to cycle this year!

It really stinks. I'm going to see my 39th birthday go by without being pregnant with my boys, without having my boys in my arms, and without being pregnant with our next child. What really stinks is I'll have to experience the boys due date in that same state. It shouldn't be this way.

If you have to experience a late-term or still-birth loss, you should be able to get next in line rights when doing IVF.

[LDS Angel 19]

How's everyone handling the upcoming holidays?

For Thanksgiving, we're all supposed to get together at DHs Aunts house. I don't think that I want to go. I think I'd rather go out to the cemetary and then go do some work (we're in the middle of a rehab on an apt - so we've got plenty to do!). I just don't really feel all that thankful after the events of this year. Why would I want to celebrate Thanksgiving? People seem to be horrified at the thought that I don't want to celebrate.

For Christmas, well, we will celebrate Christmas Eve with DHs immediate family. Then, Christmas Day we will spend the day flying and in airports. No real loss for me, since I don't particularly want to celebrate Christmas either this year.

It sucks because these were supposed to be happy holidays for us this year and we were looking forward to them.

This is what I was thinking, but didn't know if I wanted to say. I have similar feelings. It's very hard to feel thankful right now.
Our plans are to have a quiet thanksgiving with my mom and sister. No one has even talked about Christmas yet, we don't plan ahead much in my family :p.
It's hard to even think about it though. No matter what we do, things won't be the way that they should be.

[jennylou]

Astro - ugh, I'm so sorry about not being able to start your IVF cycle this year. That just sucks. :( I've been having problems getting the nurse to even call me back...I have to start the clomid late because of them. I completely understand your rational for getting to go first. I sort of felt that I should have been put on the very top of the list for a call back, instead four days later I had to call them. So frustrated on top of everything else.

No matter what we do, things won't be the way that they should be.

Very well said Michelle.

[amygrrl]

we will definitely be alone for thanksgiving, unless some friends want to come over. avoiding family is the name of the game around here. we told dh's parents several months ago that we would be going out of town alone for xmas since we found out we were preg with avery on xmas day last year. then we went to lunch w/ them this last weekend and his mom started talking about how they (the entire family) should tag along with us to go out of town. she said if we needed time alone we could drive our own car. dh said one again that we needed to be alone b/c of avery and she responded with 'but god blessed you with a new baby and all naturally'. as if that's supposed to fix everything. we love this new baby, but she is completely seperate from her sister. sure, existance of both babies dulls some of our feeling both good and bad... if we were grieving at a 10, we might now be at an 7 b/c of the new baby... and if we could have been ecstatic at a 10 over the new baby, we can only manage a 7 or so b/c of the death of avery... does that make sense? but they are still 2 seperate emotions and we still have a long way to go to get through what happened. why are people so dumb?

and mostly, i just don't want to be around them b/c they don't share our grief and won't let us just be sad. when we go there, they start telling us not to be bitter or shouldn't we be happy about a new baby or whatever instead of just letting us feel the bad stuff and work through it. on the other hand, my mom cries with me and tells me how much she's thinking of avery. it hurts her to have lost her first grandchild and to see us in such pain, but she respects that we have to go through it to get to the other side.

-------------
jennylou - that nurse sucks. you should send her some dead flowers or something (trying to think of something mean but not hateful like smacking her up side her head)

on being thankful - it's a tough one. i especially hate the way dh's parents pray before meals and always thank god for the new baby but never for avery... as if she wasn't a blessing in her own right. first, we have absolutely NEVER been happier than we were when we were preg with her. and i wouldn't trade those moments of the 3 of us together for anything in the world. she changed us and had more impact on who we are than anyone ever has. but secondly, this new baby owes her life to her sister. she wouldn't be here if avery hadn't come first. arrggg...

Astro - that sucks. can you move on to another RE?

Ericka_Jarett - sounds like you have a lot of stuff to help keep you busy... good since the holidays are bound to be rough for all of us.

[jennylou]

Hi ladies. I just wanted to stop by and ask how all of you are doing?

Heard this song on the radio today and it touched my heart so I wanted to share with you:
Artist/Band: Allan Gary
Lyrics for Song: Life Ain't Always Beautiful
Lyrics for Album: Tough All Over
Life ain't always beautiful
Sometimes it's just plain hard
Life can knock you down, it can break your heart

Life ain't always beautiful
You think you're on your way
And it's just a dead end road at the end of the day

But the struggle makes you stronger
And the changes make you wise
And happiness has it's own way of takin' it sweet time

[chorus]
No,life aint always beautiful
Tears will fall sometimes
Life aint always beautiful
But it's a beautiful ride

Life aint always beautiful
Some days I miss your smile
I get tired of walkin' all these lonely miles

And I wish for just one minute
I could see your pretty face
Guess I can dream, but life dont work that way


But the struggles makes me stronger
And the changes make me wise
And happiness has it's own way of takin' its sweet time

No, life aint always beautiful
But I know I'll be fine
Hey, life aint always beautiful
But its a beautiful ride
What a beautiful ride

[Ericka_Jarett]

Not a whole lot going on here.

I have a craft show next weekend where I will be selling my diaper-cakes. I am trying to work new designs and taking photos of them for my website. I just made final payment for our Disney trip and we added an extra day to our trip. Now just to book a hotel for the final day of our trip, since we want to be closer to the airport since our flight is at like 7 am. Also have a consultation appt for my wisdom teeth. Things have been keeping my mind busy.

I did have a good long talk with God on Sunday after I left church and went to the cemetary. Just sat next to Rebekah's marker and talked with God about what I was feeling and how it wasn't fair that any parent would have to see their child's name on a grave marker.

[LDS Angel 19]

thanks for posting that beautiful song, jenny.

things have been a little rough for me these days. Last night was DH's grandma's 70th bday party, his whole family was there. After we left he told me that the whole time we were there, he felt very empty. He said that it should have been our first family get together with Allison, we should have been showing her off like proud parents get to do. It was nice to know that he was feeling the same things as me, so we bonded a little, but it was still very sad.

Also, I've started working on some of my geneology, and that's really bittersweet. I think about all of my ancestors, and all of the stories that they have of thier lives, some that I know, some that I don't. And then there's Allison, stuck in the corner of the family tree. She dosen't have any stories. She didn't have enough time to make any. It's almost like she's nothing more then a name. I mean, she's much more, I know that, but most other people don't.

My best friend has been so wonderful, I love her. A few weeks ago she bought me an early Christmas present:

http://www.preciousmoments.com/shopping/product_images_standard/108541.jpg

It's called "Forever in our hearts" Technically it's a boy angel, but they didn't have a girl one and I can't really tell the diffrence. It sits on a shelf in our living room to watch over us and be a reminder to us of the angel that watches us from heaven.

[Ericka_Jarett]

Here is the pic of that piece, some reason it's not showing up .
http://www.flossiesgifts.com/photos/108541-2.jpg

[LDS Angel 19]

That's odd, it showed up this morning. Thanks!

[Ericka_Jarett]

A piece my friend from CA sent me was this one called Safely Home:

http://www.great-quotes.com/photos/8537.jpg

Needless to say, I cried when I opened the box, I didn't even know this piece was made so to see it I was both shocked but touched that my friend (who I worked with for 3 months and haven't seen since we were both let go back in 2001) would pick out such a perfect piece for me.

[Astro]

Hi everyone,

I'm still here lurking. We're doing much better, but still having crying moments. I think we'll always have those, but I'm happy they aren't happening as often. I know the next few months are going to be very difficult for all of us here, but hopefully we'll do ok with each other's support. :)

We finally have an idea of what happened to our twins at week 16. After millions of tests with 3 different doctors, we think we know what happened. We'll never know absolutely what happened, but this makes the most sense with all the tests. Ok, I didn't have millions of tests, but I've had over 100. UGH! Bloodwork all came back fine and pathology reports on the placentas came back fine. All Drs agree there was nothing wrong with the boys and nothing wrong with me.

The Perinatologist (high-risk specialist) believes I had a hematoma behind one of the placentas that was undetected by the ultrasounds. He believes it developed in the 8th week, when I had major bleeding. He believes it continued to be a problem (another major bleed in week 10 and constant spotting requiring a pad through week 14). He thinks the placenta never was completely attached, and therefore separated the weekend we lost the boys. He says he thinks it was placentia abruption (or however you spell it). Next time we get pregnant, he said I have a 10% chance of this happening again, but there are things we can do to help prevent it. Next time I am to quadruple my follic acid (that's a lot of follic acid) and take 1 baby aspirin a day. He thinks this will give us our best chance. So hopefully next year we'll get pregnant and try this route.

It's nice to have a possible reason as to what happened, but frightening to know there's a 10% chance of it happening again. I'm hoping with the 3 Drs working together, my DH and I can get pregnant and deliver a healthy baby next year.

[jennylou]

Astara - I'm glad that you were able to get some answers. When will you join the madness of ttc again? Early next year? I hope your journey is quick!

How is everyone else doing? How is the ttc going? How about our pregnant members? Any thoughts on being pregnant after a loss like this? How about everyone else?

[LDS Angel 19]

Here's another one to file under "Things people say that should never be said"

A few days ago, I called up my mom. I told her I was having a tough time. I was really lonley and empty. She tells me I "need to move on and stop thinking about it everyday." WHAT the heck?? First of all, "it" is my daughter. She's a person, she has a name. USE it. Second of all, I'm pretty sure that there will never be a day where I don't think about her. I WANT to think about her and rememeber her. I NEED to. I mean, I was just baffled by this coment. Do you think about your kids mom? Then why the hell can't I think about mine?? Argh. She is just so far from understanding.

[Astro]

LDS Angel 19 I'm sorry your mom said that to you. I can't believe what people say.

Things I now know to never say if anyone I know has to go through this...

1) (said by some good friends who also experienced a late term loss) "Your pregnancy was just going too easy without complications, so something had to happen." um, huh? First, my pregnancy was not without complications, I had been bleeding weeks 8-14. Second, even if my pregnancy was easy, no complications, what does that have to do with the death of my children?

2) (list of things said by good friend of my husband... said almost every day to my husband since we lost the kids). "Oh, I felt the baby move today, We're going to buy more baby things today, we're returning some of the baby clothes, we're painting the baby's room, my wife is getting so much bigger due to the baby, etc." Please don't misunderstand, we're very happy they're pregnant. They are 2 weeks behind where we would have been if we hadn't lost our boys. My husband just gets tired of hearing about their baby every day. It's hard to heal when you keep getting it brought up at lunch.

3) (said by good friends soon after we got pregnant) "My wife's OB says most women miscarry their first pregnancy." Why was that said? Yes, these people had a miscarriage in the 8th week; but they knew we were trying.

I think the thing that bothers me is people just don't think. In all the above statements, they didn't think how it might make the other people feel. My DH and I try to be very courteous, but I feel the above comments were said without any thought.

oh well, enough rambling.

LDS Angel19 I think it's perfectly normal to think about your daughter. She was and always will be a very important part of you and your life. Some times you'll feel lonely and empty, and that's normal. It's ok to grieve and miss your daughter. You loved her very much, and you always will. (hugs)

[amygrrl]

file under stupid things people shouldn't say...
at our peri appointment yesterday we saw the resident first. she mentioned that my non-stress tests and cord blood flow monitoring wouldn't start until 32 weeks. i corrected her and said no, Dr. D (my peri) said they would start much earlier b/c my loss was at 27 wks for unknown causes. she says, 'oh. ok. but you know you really don't want to be monitored that early because it's very stressful and you'll end up being in the dr.s office and hospital all the time. and besides, the downside to being monitored that early is that it may cause us to take the baby b4 28 wks and you don't want your baby b4 28 wks b/c they have all kinds of issues. and besides, there are babies we monitor very closely and the mom still comes in and suddenly the baby is dead. it happens." HELLO?????

first, i want my baby. if that requires numerous dr and/or hospital visits, who cares if it insures the health of my baby. second, i would assume that if after one of these test if the dr chooses to induce me b4 28 weeks he has a damn good reason that involves either saving my life or the life of my baby. if the baby has better odds outside of me than inside, then they better ta