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Millie03
08-24-2005, 06:20 PM
OK, I saw a story on this on the Today show (while I was working out, of course). I was just curious to get some opinions on this:

Nike jumps on 'real women' bandwagon
Company's new campaign features close-ups of toned women
The Associated Press
Updated: 9:01 p.m. ET Aug. 18, 2005

PORTLAND, Ore. - It’s no longer just rail-thin models who are showing up in fashion magazines and on billboards. Large women, or what are being called "real people," are now gracing ads of companies selling everything from tuna to cellulite cream.

Nike Inc., the world’s largest maker of athletic shoes, has jumped onto the bandwagon with a campaign featuring close-ups of “big butts” and “thunder thighs.”

Look closely at the text, however, and you discover that the body parts featured in the pictures belong to women who spend a lot of time working out.

“It looks like a volleyball player. Like a very athletic woman — not someone fat,” said Britt Hansen, 20, poring over the “thunder thighs” spread inside the locker room of a local gym in downtown Portland.

“It ain’t that big,” agreed Douglas Burzell, a computer tech who glanced at the “My butt is big” ad while sipping his Starbucks coffee about 10 miles from Nike’s Beaverton, Ore. headquarters.

The new Nike campaign, said company spokeswoman Caren Bell, is attempting to portray “what is real” as opposed to “the ideal.”

When a woman works out, her body develops, becoming more muscular, instead of model-thin. And that’s a look the ads are trying to celebrate, she said.

It fits right in with a reality trend in the beauty industry overall, said Cindi Leive, editor-in-chief of Glamour magazine, which is prominently featuring the “big butt” ad in its September issue.

“If you’re born a size 12, you will not become a size 0 and any product that tells you (that) you have to do that to be happy will not get your attention anymore,” she said.

A recent survey of 1,000 American women by Allure magazine supports that conclusion, said the magazine’s publisher, Nancy Berger Cardone. Editors at the magazine were astonished, she said, when 91 percent of the respondents said they were satisfied with what they see in the mirror.

For that reason, it makes sense for advertisers to pitch products to women who hope to improve their looks in a realistic manner, rather than those indulging in a faraway fantasy.

“Women are wanting to be themselves — but better,” she said.

Nike’s campaign comes on the heels of ads for cellulite cream by Unilever N.V.’s Dove showing unretouched, “real” women of varying sizes in bras, panties and a broad smile. “As tested on real curves,” reads the text underneath the photograph.

In the food industry, Chicken of the Sea just launched a TV campaign featuring a beautiful woman, who runs into an elevator and allows herself to exhale, exposing her large tummy.

The people in Nike’s new campaign are toned women, whose curves are the results of swimming, dancing, playing soccer and running.

“My butt is big and round like the letter C,” states the text that goes with a picture showing a woman’s tight derriere. “And ten thousand lunges have made it rounder. But not smaller. And that’s just fine.”

Showing an image of a woman in shorts from the waist down, another ad proclaims: “I have thunder thighs. And that’s a compliment because they are strong and toned and muscular.”

'Marathon legs'
Asked to look at the ads without the words, randomly chosen people in downtown Portland described the women as fit. When they saw the accompanying description, several were surprised.

“Thunder thighs? No, she’s not fat. Those are marathon legs. That’s a healthy woman who’s active and in shape and cares about her body,” said Kim Lynn, 33, a Pilates and Spinning instructor at a local gym.

Lynn concluded the ad had a positive message: “It’s as if they’re taking a derogatory statement — and making it not be that.”

The ad is at odds with itself by using terms like “thunder thighs” next to fit women, says Barbara Lippert, the New York-based ad critic for Adweek, a trade magazine that chronicles the advertising industry.

But she said the ad is truthful to Nike’s core audience — the athletic woman, who is not a waif, but not obese, either.

She said depicting a truly obese subject is not likely to please anyone: “If they were actually cellulitic and gross no one would want to see it.”

The anti Barbie doll movement has a long history in advertising, said Liz Schroeder, executive director of Advertising Women of New York, an industry association.

In the 1990s, the Body Shop built a campaign around a voluptuous doll named Ruby, the company’s “self-esteem mascot.” On one set of images, the tagline below her ample figure read: “There are 3 billion women who don’t look like supermodels and only 8 who do.”

What is new, Schroeder said, is the fact that big companies like Nike are using the same marketing strategy.

“The average woman is not 5’2, blond with blue eyes and straight white teeth, and somebody somewhere along the line has realized that women want to see products that they can relate to,” she said. “And when a company like Nike does it, it really gets attention.”
© 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

© 2005 MSNBC.com

I'm sure we've all seen the Dove ads for the firming lotion that is "real women."

My questions: Does seeing ad campaigns like this help women? Does this help our self-image? Do you think that it will attract women to buy the products? Are these women "real" enough? Or if they were more real, would we even buy the products?

MLA
08-24-2005, 08:39 PM
I like the Dove ads, though I have to admit that at first they made me uncomfortable. I mean, you're not supposed to look at "real" people in their underwear, right? ;) But I've gotten past that . . . and I think the Nike ads are really great. I'm pretty athletic, I'm very slim, but I don't have the body of a super-model, and I never will; I think that celebrating what happens to a regular woman's body when she takes care of herself is great.

But it's hard to say what effect these ads will really have. I think we'll have to see how long this trend lasts. I think that showing more reasonably shaped women can't hurt us, and if the trend really becomes more than just a "trend," it will be a good thing for young girls' self-esteem throughout the country.

DiscoDiva
08-24-2005, 09:36 PM
I like the ads and think they should be in men's magazines and teen magazines, so they will develop proper views of what a 'normal' healthy woman looks like. Putting those ads in women's magazines is like preaching to the choir!

LRL
08-24-2005, 10:01 PM
When I first saw the Dove ad on a bill board driving in to work, I was a little bit confused. I thought "Do they know that they photographed normal looking women?" Then I realized, hey, this is great. What a fantastic message to be sending to women- It's ok to look different, and it is sexy despite the message that advertisers have been sending for years.

Other than portraying what more women in America look like (essentially I feel that this is more effective marketing), I think that ad campaigns like this will make a world of difference to teenage girls. Advertising in America (waifs in ads) has long been a contributor to eating disorders in young women. It makes them want to be the size 0 that they see, because that's what they percieve to be sexy and acceptable. I think that these ads are a positive move in the right direction.

Will the ads be around for the long term? Who knows... I don't know that showing real women in their ads will improve/boost their sales, but it might be great for the image of the company. The ads with the waifs in them give me a very negative feeling toward the company- these new ads by Dove and Nike make me feel that they are considering all consumers and I will probably purchase from them instead of the other companies. If more women think like I do they might be on to something. I overheard some men talking about the ads, and their words were "What? They are larger than the other models? Man, they are hot!" This was encouraging to hear. :)

Vorian's_Leronica
08-24-2005, 10:58 PM
I love the ads. ITs about time the media recognized we aren't stick figures. I also love the new "bootylicious" mannequins.
Will this trend stay? I dont know but I hope so.

Millie03
08-25-2005, 05:41 AM
I guess my take on it is a little bit different.

When I look at these ads, I don't see "normal" women. They are gorgeous! And they are the smallest "large" woman that I've seen. And frankly, the text on some of the Nike ads I find abrasive and not flattering in general.

Call me crazy but I find it more insulting when an ad campaign is concocted to show the "normal" woman and they are still anything but. At least with Twiggy type models I can recognize that they are not realistic. Even on a good day, I still don't look like those Dove models.

On the other aspect, I think that women are our own worst enemies sometimes. We judge ourselves and each other worse then men. But when it comes down to it, I think that all women covet each others bodies (and PLEASE correct me if you disagree because I'm generalizing here..). And when we see ads with products, our ultimate goal is to look like the model/actress so that's why we buy the products. So, I don't know that we are ever going to get away from the "idealized" woman.

I don't know what my point is ultimately other than the fact that it frustrates me. I think the media has a lot of power over women's image of themselves and that frustrates me. :o

DiscoDiva
08-25-2005, 05:45 AM
On the other aspect, I think that women are our own worst enemies sometimes. We judge ourselves and each other worse then men. But when it comes down to it, I think that all women covet each others bodies (and PLEASE correct me if you disagree because I'm generalizing here..). And when we see ads with products, our ultimate goal is to look like the model/actress so that's why we buy the products. So, I don't know that we are ever going to get away from the "idealized" woman.
Honestly, I don't want another woman's body. I've worked hard to get mine where it is, and I like it. As I've gotten older, I've gotten much more comfortable in my own skin. I like who I am, flaws and all. That's what makes me unique! I also don't read beauty magazines or watch ads, and I don't buy products based on the woman in the ad. I buy products based on effectiveness and price: I don't care who is the spokesmodel.

IrishMeg
08-25-2005, 06:31 AM
I like the ads and think they should be in men's magazines and teen magazines, so they will develop proper views of what a 'normal' healthy woman looks like. Putting those ads in women's magazines is like preaching to the choir!

I agree, DiscoDiva!

I think the ads are great. I hope this is a trend that will stay. There was an article in my People magazine about the Dove models and I thought they looked great. There was 2 or 3 who made me think "I wish my body looked like that." But it didn't make me feel bad about myself. I just admire other women's features.

BethIrish
08-25-2005, 07:04 AM
I overheard some men talking about the ads, and their words were "What? They are larger than the other models? Man, they are hot!" This was encouraging to hear. :)

I *love* it!!!

lawyerlee
08-25-2005, 10:14 AM
When I look at these ads, I don't see "normal" women. They are gorgeous! And they are the smallest "large" woman that I've seen. And frankly, the text on some of the Nike ads I find abrasive and not flattering in general.
I agree with you. I like the Dove ads, even though I agree that those women are hardly "average" - they're extremely attractive, IMO. But I can't stand the text of those Nike ads. It is exactly the oppositive message that we need to send ourselves, I think. You don't have "thunder thighs" just because you have big muscles!

wendalah
08-25-2005, 11:50 AM
I hate the Nike ads. They annoy me. And the Dove ads also annoy me--not because they are using "real" women, but because how on earth does showing a bunch of non-model, non-stick-thin women prove to me that the product works, any more than showing a stick-thin model proves it works?

If they're going to use "real" women, let's see some before-and-after photos. I want to see some cellulite-y "before" shots. As it is, all I see is a bunch of women who aren't a size 0 but aren't showing anything particularly "real" either prancing around on a billboard in their skivvies. Big deal!

wendalah
08-25-2005, 11:51 AM
BTW I am LIVING PROOF that skinny chicks get cellulite. So if the Dove ads showed some proof, I'd buy their stuff. But looking at some chick who simply weighs more than me in her underpants isn't doing me a damn bit of good any more than the gorgeous model does.

lawyerlee
08-25-2005, 11:55 AM
Models are never about the products, though. They do, however, have a powerful impact on women and their self-images. So I think that seeing a wider variety of women represented is undoubtedly healthy because it tells you that you are OK just as you are, even if you are slender. Because we all have things about us that we're not that happy about. For a lot of women, seeing someone who doesn't fit the stereotypical slender, "perfect" woman mold may make them feel more comfortable about their own flaws, such as cellulite, to use your example, Wendy.

wendalah
08-25-2005, 12:11 PM
I don't have an issue with the women in the ads themselves and I think it's great if men/women/impressionable children find them sexy. Honestly. What I'm tired of is advertising in the beauty realm in general. You have a wrinkle product? Show me before-and-after shots. You have a firming skin cream? Show me before-and-after shots. I could get behind that. The Dove girls are just another ad not really showing me anything except attractive women running around half naked.

PrincessTommi
08-25-2005, 12:41 PM
Sitting in an airport, reading Glamour this weekend, I saw the new Nike print ads. I actually really liked them. I haven't given it much thought, but they definitely got my attention at the time.

artist
08-25-2005, 01:11 PM
I think it's a good step in the right direction.

greenbunny
08-25-2005, 01:18 PM
I still think they're a lot better-looking than average. They may not be waifs, but they have nice teeth, good skin, and even features--all probability of airbrushing aside. Put my mole-covered skin and huge honkin' nose in those ads, and then I'll agree that their money is meeting their mouth.

One thing I do like seeing is a lot more gray area when it comes to race and nationality. It used to be there'd be one super-pale white chick with blue eyes and wheat-blonde hair, one very dark African-American woman, one obviously Asian woman, etc. Now there are more woman whose race I can't always identify. I think showing multiracial models is more realistic, it seems more about real people and less about "okay, make sure someone of every ethnicity is in the picture".

daydreamer
08-25-2005, 03:50 PM
Models are never about the products, though. They do, however, have a powerful impact on women and their self-images. So I think that seeing a wider variety of women represented is undoubtedly healthy because it tells you that you are OK just as you are, even if you are slender. Because we all have things about us that we're not that happy about. For a lot of women, seeing someone who doesn't fit the stereotypical slender, "perfect" woman mold may make them feel more comfortable about their own flaws.

ITA
Now while I'm a big woman ;) and am enjoying the fact that "my type" is finally being seen for somethng other than "fat and lazy", I want to see all women represented from under 5' to 6+'; every skin tone imaginable; waifs to giants, and every other way we are different and special. We, as a group, have got to quit "buying in" to society's portrait of a woman, which but the way wouldn't have happened if we had not bought into it in the beginning and we have got to address eating disorders in this country. There are natural waifs - they are fine; but girls & WOMEN who are straving themselves for an unattainable, unhealthy, deadly ideal are very sick. And I think society is feeding them the poison.

Lizzie Beth
08-25-2005, 07:15 PM
Like 'em. Hope this is a trend.

Hope it means someday designers will start making clothes to fit girls with boobs again...

Hope it means we can all stop obsessing about carbs or fat grams or whatever again, although I do love the trend towards exercise and physical fitness.

Asha
08-26-2005, 12:22 PM
i like them. actually, my dh has never turned a head for any beautiful looking woman walking by or underwear model ad in times square, but boy did the dove ad billboard turn his head. :p

though, i agree with others that these women are beautiful. they should have some ads with people with "plainer" features like myself.

Asha
08-26-2005, 12:24 PM
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2005/07/22/dove/story.jpg

these women do not look fat all. actually, they look pretty firm, and i am jealous bc i don't see any cellulite.

Asha
08-26-2005, 12:26 PM
i had never seen the nike ads so i thought i'd try to post some.

http://vh10018.v1.moc.gbahn.net/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=J5&Date=20050821&Category=BUSINESS&ArtNo=508210390&Ref=V1&Profile=1003&MaxW=500&MaxH=400&title=1

Asha
08-26-2005, 12:29 PM
http://www.adrants.com/images/nike3_081205_big.jpg

flygirl
08-26-2005, 12:52 PM
The best commercial I have seen using "real" women was for Zelnorm, where women hold up their shirts to show different symptoms written on their tummies. There were at 2 dozen women of all shapes, sizes & colors, many with a little (or a lot) of fat bulging above their pants. I recently saw a similar commercial using men.

IrishMeg
08-26-2005, 02:04 PM
i like them. actually, my dh has never turned a head for any beautiful looking woman walking by or underwear model ad in times square, but boy did the dove ad billboard turn his head.

FH did the same thing. I showed him the article and he said "Whoa, they're hot!" He claims not to like the stick thin super model look. (But he may only be saying that for my benefit.)

The best commercial I have seen using "real" women was for Zelnorm, where women hold up their shirts to show different symptoms written on their tummies. There were at 2 dozen women of all shapes, sizes & colors, many with a little (or a lot) of fat bulging above their pants. I recently saw a similar commercial using men.

Everytime I see the Zelnorm commerical I think "I wish my stomach looked like that!" I think the women in that commercial look great. I hate my stomach the most out of any body part.

julietchicago
08-26-2005, 04:38 PM
One word - FINALLY! I am so sick of looking at twigs w/ pretty faces. I love the fact that these are "real" women. We are not all twigs, we do not all have perfect bodies. It's nice to see someone step forward and take a chance with these ads. Way to go Dove!

When my 5 year old niece asked me one day if her belly looked fat in a certain outfit she had on, I couldn't believe it. My jaw dropped. The media has really done a number on our self image. They should be ashamed!

wendalah
08-26-2005, 05:21 PM
To be honest, I'm not surprised a lot of men like the billboards. Men like looking at scantily clad chicks, regardless of their size. After decades of seeing skinny models, the Dove girls are a whole new ballgame for them to ogle. They are by no means unattractive and they aren't even particularly heavy--just larger than a size 2 or 4. So again, if it makes women feel better--that's good--but I'd still prefer less smoke and mirrors when it comes to beauty advertising. Or hell, I'd prefer it if women as a whole just didn't give a hang if their skin was firm or not. But that ain't happening any time soon.

ZoeGirl
08-29-2005, 10:24 AM
I love the Nike ads. Possibly because I have "thunder thighs," a "bubble butt," and tomboy knees (I play soccer, which is where I got every one of those). It makes me feel a bit better about myself...although I have to say it hasn't really overcome my brand loyalty elsewhere.