If it were your first trip to Europe...

[wendalah]

And you had about 10 days to spend, with a moderate budget for lodging (about 2-3K not including flights), what country (countries?) would you start with?

Remember, you've NEVER been to Europe, this is your first time, you are lost and clueless!

[kalogrias]

I would start with the Czech Republic -- Prague is so totally beautiful and very VERY affordable. When I was a poor student on my year abroad, though Prague wasn't my absolute favorite place that I went to (Berlin took that prize), it was the only place that could eat three full meals/day without thought about cost! ;)

ETA: Italy would be a good place to start, as well. People are very friendly, and it's not cost-prohibitive.

[Mrs. M.]

What time of the year would this be?

[HeatherFL]

Greece and Italy.

~H.

[wander_woman]

Italy and England.

[emmjay]

I think it depends on how far out of a comfort zone a person is willing to go. If I was nervous about going to Europe, I would choose the U.K. and/or Ireland - no language barrier and while the culture is different enough to be interesting, it wouldn't be a shock. It would be expensive though.

If you wanted a bit more adventure, I would recommend Spain and Portugal just because I love both of those places.

[tenofcups]

Italy! Depending on what you want, there's thousands of years of history, religion, art, achitecture, beaches, food, shopping--pretty much everything! It's relatively easy to get around, language is rarely a problem, and while you are definitely "away," it's not so foreign as to be intimidating.

[funky$meg]

Are you looking for somewhere to shop? Relax? Go out? Are you strictly sight-seeing? Into art?

Without knowing any of that, I'm going to suggest Switzerland and Belguim...in both cities, the people are friendly, the clubs are fun, and the scenery is absolutely gorgeous ...
I think the best thing about these two places is that they are somewhat old-world Europe, and are not touristy like many other areas. But where ever you go, you're going to love it! :)

[wendalah]

Italy is my first choice!
DH is interested in Spain and Amsterdam.
We both are interested in London but it does seem really expensive, and we aren't ones for gross hotels (they don't have to be 5-star, but we're definitely ugly Americans in this regard).
Not sure what time of year to go--any suggestions?
Meg: We want to do everything--whatever place we visit, we will want to see all of the culture, plus shop, plus relax, plus eat!

[mgrace]

France!

[lawyerlee]

I haven't been, so this isn't hypothetical at all for me, and I'd go to Italy and/or Greece, I think. :)

[Rose]

Italy and England.

Ditto.

[amew]

I would do France and Italy. Spend a few days in Paris, take the train to Provence and get a taste of some smaller towns (I love Arles), continue down to the French Riveria, cross over into Italy, spend a couple days in Cinque Terra, then end your trip with a few days in Florence, with maybe a day trip to Sienna or something. That gives you a nice mix of cities and small towns (plus hotels in Provence and the Italian Riveria can be very affordable, much more so than the big cities), and it lets you get a little bit of a feel for two great countries without getting too overwhelming (I have never been a fan of trying to see 8 major European cities in 10 days -- it's just too much).

[Rosebud]

For your first time, I'd stick with major cities and a simple itinerary. Here's my recommendation.

Fly to London. It's an inexpensive flight (for Europe) and you can spend 3-4 days there surrounded by English speakers, getting your bearings.

Take the Chunnel to Paris. It's a quick, easy, 2 hour trip. You can spend the rest of your time in Paris and the surrounding areas (the Loire Valley is nearby and easily accessible by train, if you'd like to see some countryside). Fly home from Paris.

Or, if you'd like to see a little more, spend just 4 days in Paris and continue on to Amsterdam via train. It's just a couple of hours on the TGV (high speed train). Amsterdam, like London and Paris, is easily walkable, easy to get around, everyone speaks English, great for first time visitors to Europe. Fly home from Amsterdam.

:)

[Dunja]

Yup, Italy and France were also my first thoughts. Perhaps even Switzerland and Italy - you'd get more varied landscape that way :)

But be warned - I've been in dodgy hotel rooms in Italy far more often than I've been in them in London :) But I think one can always find something decent with a little research. (Try to find sites where you can find reviews on the hotels - that always feels honest. http://www.tripadvisor.com/ is one such site.)

As for time of year - I've always liked June. By that time it's already summer, not stiffling hot, and most European children are still at school, so there aren't as many tourists as in July and August.

And Prague is lovely but it get's more expencive every year! I went there in 1992 or 1993 and again in 2002 and the prices just didn't compare.

Have fun, whenever you go :)

[irish74]

Paris definitely, the South of France if possible. If you don't mind more traveling around I would take the train from Paris to Florence and then explore Italy a bit too. Out of all of the traveling I've done, Paris and Nice are two of my favorites. I cried leaving because I wanted to stay so bad.

[HeatherFL]

Since I've been there, I want to tell you Belgium. I had a dream about it -that I went and fell in love with it. So last year, I went! And I loved it. ;) (I also love Ireland and Holland.)

BUT my first response is still Greece and Italy.

~H.

[Amuse Bouche]

Paris, definitely -- I adore London, but it IS expensive, and you can do Paris well on a budget -- eat and drink well, and the hotels aren't too bad. (Whereas I think the hotels in Italy have gotten outrageous, there are still relative deals to be had in Paris). Though I think Rosebud's suggestion of flying into London is a good one because flights do tend to be cheaper.

There are a bunch of great day trips from Paris, and the trains are pretty efficient -- the Loire, Normandy, Giverny, Versailles. And the people watching is top notch -- sit in a cafe and watch the world go by. And the shopping's great -- and the museums. And I think everyone should go to Paris at some point.

[wendalah]

Erin, that sounds just about right for us--I'd like to do three cities at least, since it's a long flight from L.A. and we won't be getting over there often. We could do three days in each city perhaps? Any suggestions for hotels?

[bookworm]

If you're doing cities, go in the off-season (mid-Nov to mid-March). It's so much less expensive and crowded, and you don't go to cities for the weather.

I love London--I lived there once and have never gotten over it. History, theatre, great for wandering... You can get some reasonable and not gross hotels out by Gloucester Rd. (There are also grotty ones there as well though--I'll see if I can remember any names of decent "American tourist" ones.)

Given that I'd start in London, I'd also go to Paris. It's not my favorite, but I liked it much better the 2nd time. Certainly worth a visit.

From Paris, you could pick a country-side destination, or IIRC (it was 10 years ago), the train to Amsterdam isn't hideously long.

Oops, just realized I put out a similar itinerary to Rosebud03 :).

If you go in the spring/summer, I'd do Italy (some cities, plus maybe the coast), and save London/Paris for less lovely weather.

[framboise]

Paris is my very favorite so I have to vote for it to show up on your itinerary. :)

I agree with the people who have said not hitting too many cities too quickly. It's just too hectic. Something like Rosebud suggested is a very good idea. For your very first trip, starting in London would be good to get used to being out of the US whithout having to worry about language problems.

If you make it to the south of France / the north of Italy, put Cinque Terre high on your list of places to go!

One more thought: when you're scheduling everything, don't be afraid to take trains in Europe. They are so convenient and quick that sometimes it's not even worth it to fly.

[laura]

Italy, Italy! But you can't go to Italy and not see Rome. I almost did and that would have been a huge mistake!

What time of year would you go?

[Rosebud]

Hi Wendy,

One of my co-workers just honeymooned in London and he raved about his hotel there. Here's the website: http://www.thecranley.com/

It's not cheap but not super expensive either.

I think this place is a reasonable price for a nice place in Paris. I've seen it recommended on the message boards at Fodors.com: http://www.hotel-madison.com/

Be sure to check reviews at tripadvisor.com before you book a hotel-- Some of the hotel websites are a tad deceptive about the condition of their building. Also, hotel rooms in Paris tend to be small in general, even at the nice places. The city is phenomenal, though. I think you'd really like it.

We're honeymooning in Paris and Amsterdam and we had a really tough time finding someplace affordable but nice in Amsterdam. I'll think about the places we looked at and I'll chat with you about it on Sunday. :)

[Rosebud]

Oh, and as for what time of year is good to visit....

May is a good month. Not too hot or crowded yet. Maybe some rain here and there, depending on where you go-- but mostly a great time of year for Europe.

I'd avoid June-August (particularly August) just because it's peak season and the cities are very hot and overrun with tourists. It's not the best environment to experience Europe for the first time. August is when all the Europeans take their holiday, so lots of shops & restaurants close in the cities.

Late September/ Early October is also a great time to go. Sorta the same conditions as May- pretty nice weather, not a ton of crowds.

[Sophia]

England & Italy.

[Amuse Bouche]

Ooh, we stayed at the Cranley for part of our honeymoon and it was just HEAVEN. I think we got a discount through Londonnights.com -- check the fodors.com message boards for verification (this was two years ago). It's a great little boutique hotel, in a great location, but yeah, not super inexpensive. And you can get afternoon tea in your room and a glass of champagne before dinner ... and they bring you breakfast in bed because they don't have a dining room.

The Academy Hotel is also lovely, but a little more expensive. I think there are some other places on Gower Street in Bloomsbury.

My parents travel to London and Paris all the time for work (my mom does research in London, and my dad figures they might as well go to Paris) -- I can ask them for favorite hotels in London, but I know they like the Hotel Bonaparte in Paris -- also a great location, on the left bank. ]

[littlemia]

I second (third?) the London-Paris-Amsterdam trip. I would try to book an open-jaw ticket if possible. If you're at all worried about the language barrier, you won't have any problems with these places (well, you will have to know a little bit of French but that's all). I would recommend late April-early May, especially if you go to Amsterdam. The weather warms up at that time and Keukenhof gardens is still open (tulip gardens-highly recommended). Also, Queen's Day, the Netherlands national holiday, is April 30th and it's a lot of fun.

Sorry I can't help with hotels. We're budget travelers and try not to spend more than $100/night for accomodations. I have heard that the larger chains that cater to businesspeople are more up to "American" standards. Not a lot of charm in them, but if you can't stand to have a room only slightly larger than a walk in closet or with some interesting quirks, you might want to consider that.

Rosebud, we also honeymooned in Amsterdam and Paris. We had a fantastic time and I'm sure you will too.

[BSBC]

London is terrific.

Ireland is great - very easy to get around and the people are extremely nice. I spent time in Ireland and London a few years ago. It is a quick flight from either Sharon or Dublin to London (Sharon to London is 1 hour and Dublin to London is a 1/2 hour). We used the Tube the entire time we were in London.

Flying from London to other major European cities is pretty inexpensive. Sometimes you can fly for about 30 Euros one way.

I would love to go from London to Paris on the Chunnel Train. Paris is a great city and France has a lot to offer.

I also recommend Spain. I recently went to Mallorca (an island off of Spain) and it was fabulous - very easy to get around, the people were friendly and the language barrier was not a problem. Now that I've been to Mallorca, I would really like to go to the mainland part of Spain.

I've also heard that Portugal is fabulous and relatively inexpensive.

Have fun on your trip.

[wendalah]

OK, so I talked about it with DH and he *really* wants to go to Spain. Could I do possibly France/Spain, you all think?

[emmjay]

I have only been to Madrid and southern Spain, and Paris in France, but my husband and my parents each did a France/Spain combo trip.

My parents went around to several wine regions in France and then went to Bilbao and San Sebastian in Spain.

My husband did the running of the bulls in Pamplona and also went to Barcelona, San Sebastian and then into France for a few days. You can definitely see both, but I don't have any specific advice since I've never been to those regions myself!

I do LOVE Spain though - you will have a great time. Maybe you can fly into Paris and out of Madrid or Barcelona, or vice versa? That would save a lot of time.

[meatpie]

Spain and France would be very doable. I agree with emmjay about flying into Paris and flying out of Madrid to make best use of the time you have. I think some of the most charming places (as other have said) in France are the smaller towns and cities like Provence and Nice.

The first time I went to Europe (not including London) we did a 10-day cruise and it was amazing. Not the best way to soak up the culture completely because you might be in a city for a day or so, but a really incredible way to visit a ton of places. On our cruise we did Portugal, Africa, Spain, France, Monaco, and Italy.

We also did a 10-day trip in Italy hitting the big three: Rome, Florence and Venice. It was not too much traveling and we had ana amazing time seeing three very difference regions of a beautiful country.

Time of year - I'd suggest late September. Weather is good, crowds much less of an issue.

[wendalah]

DH's main requirements are seeing some Dalis and Picassos, and getting some beach time in. I want to do some shopping; attend mass someplace historic, see something "massive" that I've only seen in pictures (like the Eiffel Tower).

[emmjay]

There is a Picasso museum in Barcelona - my husband said it was great. And I am pretty sure you can go to mass in the Sagrada Familia cathedral there.

You can definitely attend mass at Notre Dame.

[HeatherFL]

DH's main requirements are seeing some Dalis and Picassos, and getting some beach time in. I want to do some shopping; attend mass someplace historic, see something "massive" that I've only seen in pictures (like the Eiffel Tower).

I am not religious, but I attended mass and heard the choir at St. Patrick's Cathedral in Dublin, Ireland. It was beautiful.

~H.

[Amuse Bouche]

OK -- I would fly to Paris -- eat great food, go to the Dali museum in Paris, and maybe the Picasso museum. Do some shopping -- there's a street in the 6th Arrondissement near the Bon Marche department store that has great bargains, BTW. Hear mass in Notre Dame (grand and historic, probably touristy) or Sainte Chappelle (smaller, but absolutely beautiful stained glass), or Sacre Coeur (big domed building on the hill). Then fly from Paris to Barcelona, go to the beach, more art, more great food, some tapas, some Sangria. Possibly rent a car and do a little driving along the coast. Maybe fly back to Paris from Barcelona, then take a flight home.

[wendalah]

This all sounds so exciting! Will we miss out if we go to Barcelona only and not Madrid?

[HeatherFL]

I also went to a mass in Sacre Couer (didn't get to hear the choir)-very pretty church.

~H.

[bookworm]

I like the Paris-Barcelona plan. I've never been to Spain, but it's on the list...

I don't know if you're a history dork (I am), but I really loved some of the Paris Walks (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/pariswalking/). They are ~2 hour walks (in English) around a particular neighborhood. I hate tours, but I liked some of these--especially the Marais and Montmarte. The Hemingway one was disappointing.

There was a thread on Paris a little while ago, but my in-a-nutshell advice is
1. Do not try to see too much of the Louvre (3 visits later, I'm finally comfortable saying I hate the Louvre. It's too much.)
2. Allow plenty of time to sit and drink wine and people watch

ETA: Yes, mass at Notre Dame has some "tourist" elements (i.e. a line to get in--but that may have been because I was there on Easter) but at the end of the day it's mass. As lapsed a Catholic I am, I kind of like that it's the same at Notre Dame or St. Peter's as it is at my own parish. So yes, I'd go. Sacre Coeur is lovely, but Notre Dame is....well, it's Notre Dame.

[Rosebud]

I went to Good Friday mass at Notre Dame last year. It was pretty cool-- definitely memorable. The Paris-Barcelona idea sounds appealing. Barcelona is supposed to be awesome-- we *almost* honeymooned there, actually. I would recommend doing an open-jaw flight into Paris and out of Barcelona if you do this itinerary, just to save yourself some time.

[HeatherFL]

These reminded me of this thread LOL

France
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_12_3v.gif

Belgium
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_9_23.gif

Holland/Netherlands
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_14_5.gif

Ireland
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_28_2.gif

Spain
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_20_3.gif

~H.

[emmjay]

This all sounds so exciting! Will we miss out if we go to Barcelona only and not Madrid?
I don't think so. I have been to Madrid and while it was nice, it was just a big European city and if people weren't speaking Spanish we could have been anywhere in Europe. It just didn't have a lot of character to me. Everyone I know who has been to both cities prefers Barcelona.

I'm not trying to bash Madrid - the Prado is great, we went to some fantastic restaurants and overall we had a nice time there. It just didn't stand out as one of those *special* cities.

You must be so excited! Going somewhere new is the best feeling! :)

[msnicolea]

Barcelona definitely trumps Madrid!

[BridalLace]

Paris is definitely a place i want to eventually return to - went there by myself in '99 and it blew my mind. i didn't spend much, stayed in hostels etc. i went to Scotland & England in 1986, Scotland was very pretty and Edinburgh was very ancient & interesting & beautiful. i thought London was cool, but kind of dirty honestly...at least the parts i saw.

Went to Spain in '97, Barcelona is a beautiful seaside town and very interesting. I also liked Madrid.

Romania is cool, you can see a lot of the country for very cheap and there is a lot of history there too. stuff about Dracula, old castles etc.

[lil_geek]

Our first trip to Europe was this past fall.

8 days
We did Edinburgh, Scotland (3 day)
London, England (3 days)
Paris, France (1 day)

We saw a lot of the 'big' things (Edinburgh castle, Tower of London, Westminster Abby, Big Ben, Effile Tower, Mona Lisa, Arch de Triomph).... only spent about $4000 Canadian on the entire trip including flights.

[dionysia]

www.frommers.com has some good links to packages.

www.go-today.com is a good package company.

www.1800flyeurope.com has cheap airfare. We bought our tickets to London through them.

Di

[designer]

i just found this thead and it was great to read everyone's opinions/experiences....

I'm planning a trip to europe - and bumping this to get more ideas of where we should go!

[tlew12778]

I don't think so. I have been to Madrid and while it was nice, it was just a big European city and if people weren't speaking Spanish we could have been anywhere in Europe. It just didn't have a lot of character to me. Everyone I know who has been to both cities prefers Barcelona.

I'm not trying to bash Madrid - the Prado is great, we went to some fantastic restaurants and overall we had a nice time there. It just didn't stand out as one of those *special* cities. I don't agree with this. I actually prefer Madrid over Barcelona. I felt like Barcelona was a business-centre, touristy city whereas Madrid is very Spanish. You can feel life breathing in Madrid, there's an undercurrent in that city that is VERY Spanish IMO. I dunno... maybe we just did very non-touristy things that gave us a better feel for the city?

[PaulsGirl]

I'd start with Ireland.

[HeatherFL]

I don't agree with this. I actually prefer Madrid over Barcelona. I felt like Barcelona was a business-centre, touristy city whereas Madrid is very Spanish. You can feel life breathing in Madrid, there's an undercurrent in that city that is VERY Spanish IMO. I dunno... maybe we just did very non-touristy things that gave us a better feel for the city?

I'll be in Spain this October (and won't be in either of those cities except for the Madrid airport), so can't weigh in for myself, BUT my ex-husband (we're still friends) was in Spain last year and much preferred Madrid to Barcelona too. He was disappointed with Barcelona and expected so much more after hearing about it.

I think it just depends on the traveler. I absolutely adore Belgium. I know people who could take it or leave it. I don't care for Paris very much and have no desire to go back. Some people think I'm nuts because of it. I always appreciate feedback and advice, but ultimately the best opinions are formed by my own experiences. :D

~H.

[bellabonga]

I would do London, Paris and Venice. The hotels in London tend to be uglier than elsewhere but if you search properly, you will be able to find something affordable and okay (at least we did). Maybe a search on www.tripadvisor.com can help you with that. I would go between May and August.

[Shapsgrl]

I would do Barcelona -south of France - Florence (time permitting) - Rome. Seriously you can't do Europe (especially since you're Catholic) without visiting the Vatican.

[emmjay]

I don't agree with this. I actually prefer Madrid over Barcelona. I felt like Barcelona was a business-centre, touristy city whereas Madrid is very Spanish. You can feel life breathing in Madrid, there's an undercurrent in that city that is VERY Spanish IMO. I dunno... maybe we just did very non-touristy things that gave us a better feel for the city?
Maybe, although we spent our time with a family friend who lives there and didn't do much touristy stuff in Madrid. I think it's probably because I have spent more time in southern Spain and I think that region just exudes "Spanish-ness" (I know that isn't a word, but you get the idea!). For me, Madrid suffered by comparison and I didn't get that same sense of Spanish character.

Anyway, I agree with Heather that it depends on the person and the experiences they like when they are traveling. In fact, with the exception of a few cities, I prefer going to smaller towns when I'm traveling so that is probably a factor in my feelings about Madrid as well!

[HeatherFL]

Hi everyone,

I know this is a bit late in the game, but maybe it will help someone. I just got back on Friday from a week in Barcelona. NOT what I was expecting. We liked it just fine, but I will tell you that if you are looking for "Spanish" - well...Barcelona may not be the place to start.

First, the majority of people in Barcelona consider themselves not "Spaniards," but Catalonians who speak not Spanish, but Catalan (Many do Speak Spanish, more on that in a sec.) Those that do are VERY outspoken about it if you ask them. I speak Spanish as my grandfather and his family are Spain Natives and my grandmother/mother and their family are Colombian natives who descended from Spain. Some people would RATHER speak in English to me then speak in Spanish. If you don't speak their tongue of Catalan, some people just downright don't want to hear Spanish. If people didn't speak English and I didn't speak Catalan they were sometimes almost frustrated to "settle" for speaking in Spanish. I do not speak Castilian Spanish but with "regular" Spanish I got along just fine. At the same time it is EXTREMELY touristy (you have to seek out the more off the beaten path places) and everything seems geared toward tourists so English speakers do just fine. (Who am I to talk, right LOL being a tourist myself!)

I didn't feel the same warm reception from the people of Barcelona in the ways I did from other parts of Europe. Being that I was raised with Hispanic heritage (though not the exact same) as a huge part of my life, it was surprising to me. I felt thrown off.

The city is busy, QUITE busy all of the time. If you want a quiet, slow pace of life with NICE beaches staying in the city of Barcelona may not be for you. If you go out to the surrounding areas you will find quieter places to relax, nicer beaches and maybe more of what you are looking for if the slower speed is your style.

In some parts of Europe I was aware of the fact they're not so fond of their neighboring countries. Such as Belgium - I was aware that they weren't so fond of the French. It was presented to me in a manner, though that was almost acceptably humorous. In Barcelona I was completely taken aback at some of the downright insults toward the Germans. It was blatant and almost snobby.

On the other hand, the architecture was fabulous. Some of the food was absolutely magnificent. Do not get me wrong, not everyone was cold or awful. It just wasn't the same as my last visits to Europe or quite what I was expecting. A week was a good amount of time. I did get to see some amazing things and we certainly did meet some great people. I'll look forward to seeing Madrid, Sevilla and exploring the Baeleric islands as we didn't get a chance and had to return early due to family illness.

If you are looking for a very city-like, busy and trendy atmosphere then I think Barcelona is a good place to start. Do not get me wrong, there area beautiful parts to it and like I wrote, some of the people were great. Plus the shopping was EXCELLENT. But slow-paced and relaxing it is not.

I will start posting photos in my journal tomorrow too.

Thanks!
~H.

[Annette]

Our first trip to Europe was Italy. I loved it! We had a great time and what made it easier was going with friends who had been there before and knew which big sites to see. They hadn't been in years and were excited to go back. We went to Sorrento, Florence, Ravenna, Venice, & Rome. I really enjoyed all the cities and they were very easy to get around. The food was awesome too.

[Mrs. Alting]

I just got back from Italy yesterday and it was my first trip to Europe. I loved it.

Rome was amazing and we stayed in Tuscany for a week at this farm house http://www.poggiacolle.com/ The owners name is Stefano. He is so nice. We had really good weather and the veiws are amazing. Not only was it a cute place to stay but it was very affordable. I think we paid 70 Euro's a night. We had a car so we were able to visit all of the cities in Tuscany (Florence, Seinna, Pisa, Volterra) The farm house was just out side of San Gimagnano which is a very neat city.

Then we went to Lake Como. Very nice but the weather did start to turn as we got further north it was very foggy there so it was kind of hard to appreciate the veiws we had.

After that we headed to Milan. We had opera tickets at La Scala and I wanted to do some shopping. Milan is very city like and not much site seeing. You can see the last supper and the famous shopping. We only spent 2 nights there so we did not see much but the food was the best in Milan.

We used trip advisor alot to find good rates on hotels. We ended up with very good places to stay.