Would you move to Israel?

[hub1176]

Inspired by the other thread I have often wondered why people would move to Israel - I guess I see/hear about the violence and wonder why people continue to settle there - Is the violence that's reported out of proportion? If you would move there why? Do you feel it's more/less dangerous than a city in the US? Do you feel it's your religious duty to settle in Israel?

I'm not trying to be inflammatory just curious.

[wander_woman]

Absolutely. I am Jewish but I do not in any way feel that it is my religious duty to settle Israel. But I do feel a special connection to Israel and to the people. I have visited Israel twice, for a total of 8 weeks. I am pretty sure that I will live there at some point in my life (I do not plan to immigrate there, I'd just like to live there for 1-2 years to improve my Hebrew and Russian, get more of a taste for the country, etc.). I have never felt so at home, so much a part of a community, so exhilerated as when I was in Israel. There is a very special community feel to the country. People are joyous, they live fully, they believe strongly in family and friendship. And it's a gorgeous place to live. Jerusalem is my favorite city in the world. There is no city like it.

That said, I have major problems with many of the policies of the Israeli government. If I moved there, I would probably try to find a human rights or development job so that I could feel that I was contributing to improving the country (in the way that I would like to see it improved).

Israel is much safer than most U.S. cities. The West Bank and Gaza can be dangerous places to live; but most Israelis don't live there. I certainly wouldn't. What you see on TV is the absolute worst of the violence in the region. It's very real, but it mainly affects only a small percentage of the population. Jerusalem and Tel Aviv are relatively safe places to live. There is very little crime (compared to the U.S.). The periodic bus and cafe bombings are of course very scary, but they would not deter me from moving there. In my time in Israel I never once felt unsafe (except for when driving - I once heard that more Israelis have died in car accidents than all Israel's wars combined. I don't know if that's a true statistic, but I wouldn't be surprised).

[amew]

I doubt I personally will ever move there, but it has more to do with the fact that I am not Jewish and have no family in Israel than with the violence that occurs there. I would love to visit Israel, and I would not feel unsafe doing so. I have several friends who have lived in Israel for a period of time, including one who lives there now, and they have all feel that the media has given most Americans an inaccurate picture of Israel as being far more unsafe and violent than it actually is. I think there are many people who live there who feel very content, at home, and quite safe. Granted there are very real problems in Israel, but I don't think of the entire country as unliveable by any means.

[RobynScott]

I do feel a special connection to Israel and to the people. ... I have never felt so at home, so much a part of a community, so ... as when I was in Israel. There is a very special community feel to the country.

Ditto - I am Jewish too and would love to live there at some point (won't happen b/c I could never get DH to agree to it) - but I had a wonderful time visiting there.

Even though I consider myself completely American - in some ways I felt like I was "home" when I was there - as wander_woman said - I really felt like a part of the community (even though I was only there for six weeks)

I'd like to go back someday - but - it's my unwillingness to move 1/2 way across the world (in general) that stops me from moving there - but I do thing there is a very strong people to move there.

[artist]

No. But someday I would like to visit. (Besides the violence, there are very few places I'd be willing to live anyway. Not to mention the fact that I am not Jewish.) DH has visited Isreal before.

[kalogrias]

Yes. I would move there in a second. What you see on the news here is generally overblown in its proportion. Is there terrorism? Yes. Violence? Yes. Bad things? Yes. But. There is almost no personal crime, and, as a PP said, the people there are so alive and so joyous despite everything. It is safer to walk down a Tel Aviv street at 4 am than it is to walk around my San Diego neighborhood. Do I have to be careful and take precautions? Sure, but I do in any big city. Are there place I avoid and things I don't do (like take busses)? Yes, and that's because I'm able to avoid doing them, and because I care about my own hide -- but it's no different to me than my not walking around the lower Bronx on my own at 2 am, KWIM?

My father is a US diplomat, and he has been posted to Israel in a semi-permanent position since 1991. I have been there over 45 times since then, and love it as if it were my own home (which, in many ways, it is).

ETA: I am Jewish, but I am basically a-religious and somewhat anti-religion as a whole, so there is no religious zeal or fervor in my opinion.

[Rose]

No, because I have no connection with Israel. There are also plenty of other countries I wouldn't move to.

[wendalah]

No. But I would like to visit; I am fascinated by the history.

[IrisHope]

I am Jewish too but would never visit until this unrest is over, let alone move there.

[sue-bert]

Hi,

I'm an American Jew who made aliyah and now lives in Israel. I moved here mostly for reasons stemming from religious ideology. Of course, finding a fulfilling job also didn't hurt my decision any...

Israel is the birthright of the Jewish people, so by living here, I am helping secure that birthright. Also, on a practical level, I find it much easier to observe mitzvot (commandments) here than abroad. Day-to-day practical matters are so much easier here for Torah-observant Jews:

- Eating kosher is simple -- all the major supermarkets are kosher; I can choose from among hundreds of restaurants when I go out; I can eat in my work cafeteria without brown-bagging it.

- I don't have to use vacation time to take off Jewish religious holidays. Not just the more well-known holidays like Rosh HaShannah and Yom Kippur (those were usually easy to arrange in the U.S.), but also the holidays which are lesser-known among non-Jews (Sukkot, Shavuot, Simchat Torah).

- I love seeing the streets full of children in customes on Purim; I love walking around the neighbor on Sukkot and checking out everyone's sukkot. For me, Tisha B'Av is so much more real when you are sitting at the western retaining wall of the Temple whose loss you are mourning (as compared to sitting on the floor in some shul in America).

- In a few years, when my son is ready for school, I can send him to a state religious school for a fraction of the tuition at a Jewish day school in the U.S. (of course, my salary is also a fraction of what I could be earning stateside... :rolleyes: )

- Despite the attempts of our neighbors, it's still relatively safe here (no, CNN is not an accurate portrayal of everyday life here!). Violent crime is low. Kids often go out at night unattended and parents seldom have cause to worry. Not so in many places I've lived in the U.S.

sue-bert

[pocket]

I used to think that I would move to Israel one day. I was even in a “garin” for a year (means seed, a group who plan to move to Israel together) planning a move to an “irbutz” or urban kibbutz. I ended up dropping out of that group, but maintained a connection to Israel for many years, visiting multiple times a year, being politically active on Israel issues, working with a Zionist movement etc. I even met my husband at a meeting of the Progressive Zionist Caucus. This of course was in the early 1990’s when the peace process was in full swing and I was filled with hope and faith in Israel. Over the last 15 years I have been through the wringer with Israel to the point where I am no longer involved on any level because I am sick of the whole business. My husband was born there; my IL’s maintain close ties; one of my closest friends lives there. But I wouldn’t move there unless the political situation improves. By that I don’t just mean a reduction in the violence. I mean a constitution, a decrease in the influence of religion in politics and an attempt to differentiate those two things, and a reorientation of policy towards a real post-cold-war regional strategy and away from asking “how high?” every time the US says “jump!” Maybe that is harsh, but Israel is far far over the line for a normal western-style democracy. They have some serious human rights problems that they refuse to address.

When I was a kid and a teenager, I went to Hebrew school and attended an educational and political summer camp where we learned a lot about the history of political Zionism, Jewish and Israeli history. One of the things we learned as truth was a story that I bet a lot of you have heard too. Before the 1948 War, when Israel’s Arab neighbor states were on the verge of invasion, that night Israelis living near Arab villages went door to door begging their neighbors to stay – begging them to stay and make a country with them. But the Arabs refused and chose to flee their homes believing that soon the Jews would be pushed into the sea and they would be able to return to their homes and take over the Jewish land. And that’s how they all ended up in refugee camps. So for those of you who have heard this story….does that sound right to you? Or does it sound like propaganda? Because it stinks to high heaven to me, and from the day I understood that it was bullshit I have felt such intense resentment to the teachers and leaders who fed me such crap.

And let me tell you, no one at all was interested in hearing this new opinion of mine for many years, so it’s kind of a new thing for me to hear American Jews criticizing Israel so openly.

It’s not really as violent there as it seems everywhere in the country. It’s violent in particular places, and the threat of violence is everywhere. The entire country is battle-ready at a moment’s notice. I lived there during the first gulf war, and did the whole sealed room, gas mask, sit on the floor and listen to the news in Hebrew waiting for the all-clear to sound. We learned how to protect ourselves from chemical and gas attacks. I was also a student there in 1993 living in Tel Aviv with a bunch of friends and spending my weekends on my kibbutz near Beersheva.

I just don’t like Israel as much as I did. There are a lot of nice things about the country, and I get why people want to live there. But for me, personally, I find the political issues too troubling and the indifference to Palestinian suffering really pervasive in the society. Maintaining with every ounce of effort the country can muster, a political reality that involves your children oppressing and killing other people is just sick.

[Noa]

Interesting thread (especially Pocket's entry). While it is hard for me, as an Israeli, to read this criticism, I agree with it in many ways. While on vacation last month, I got involved in a political discussion with my mom (who is a bible and history teacher in a high school in Haifa, Israel). It mostly consisted of me pointing out where Israel has f*cked up but refused to admit it (or educate us about it). But that is always the problem when you learn history from one specific narrative (zionist/Israeli) as opposed to learning from a wide array of sources (which I did in university here in the US). While I am discouraged and disgusted by some critical issues (such as the lack of border between religion and politics, as Pocket pointed out), I maintain the belief that this can be remedied. Unfortunately, Israel has been on the defense mode for too long, leaving certain political issues on the sideline while trying to survive.

Would I live in Israel? Yes. I had lived there for 20 years, and my heart is still there, my family is still there. I think about this issue daily.... I do hope to return one day- its hard for me to imagine raising my children elsewhere.

My childhood was pretty innocent and safe (allthough it cannot be generalized for all Israelis, obviously)- I used to play in the streets during siesta, we knew all of our neighbours well, I was never offered drugs in my life, I hitchhiked home after clubbing at 3 o'clock in the morning on a weekly basis. Granted- some things have changed- we now live in the era of internet and cable tv and constant advertisement... But I still think that growing up there feels/felt safer than here in many ways.

Anyways- I don't think I am correctly conveying exactly how I feel about this, but I guess you get the gist. Hopefully one day I can set roots in Israel again :)

[Vishenka69]

I wouldn't move to Israel but not because of the unrest. It's a lot harder to make it there and we would never be as comfortable economically as we are here. Plus being anti-religious in general (even though I'm Jewish), I don't really have any emotional ties to the place. I also don't have any relatives there. I did visit once with DH last January for a friend's wedding (her husband is Israeli) and to visit his relatives. We didn't feel unsafe at all, but I guess being from NY we're used to being cautious. We had a blast and felt very comfortable, but for me at least the comfort was coming from the lack of language barrier. While I don't speak Hebrew, everyone in Israel either speaks Russian or English, so I never had a problem. But I didn't have any feelings of "finally coming home" or such. For me NY feels a lot more like home.

[yaya]

Eh, I live here in Israel, and moved back because my DH is Israeli and his whole family is here. We have lots of close friends here, and basically came back to be close to that community...

I think the bit about Israel being much less violent than America is something of a myth. It depends what kind of violence you're talking about. Yeah, we don't have drive-by's and don't have the kind of (non-military) gun violence you have in the states. But, IIRC, Israel's rates of violence in schools, organized crime, and domestic violence are on par with those in the states -- i.e. pretty bad. I believe that if you crunch the numbers, you're not actually safer here. People may *feel* safer, but that's different, I think.

(Feel free to correct me on any of this -- just going from memory, didn't research this.)

I have to say, since I've returned, I've found Israel even more provincial, backwards, and difficult that I remembered. I miss our whole constitution / bill-of-right thing, especially the separation of church and state. Plus there's the whole existential problem... I fear for the future, and hate hate hate hate hate the fact that one day my dear son will be called to army service.

Granted, I love love love our community of friends and family. Lots of warmth and intimacy, and an immediacy of experience I never had in the US, anywhere. I love the sort of frankness of interaction we have here, and like the spontaneity. But I struggle with whether or not this is sufficient to make it a "better life" for me and my family here. I am just not sure. It's a different one, that's for sure.

[lawyerlee]

I'm as likely to move there as I would be to move to any other place in the world, aside from third-world countries. I really love the area, but I don't think I'm cut out for the life of an ex-pat. I really wouldn't feel that my life was in danger because, as others have said, violence is concentrated in certain areas, but I think I would feel alienated from my culture because even though some things are the same, too many things are different.