Kansas serial killer jailed for 'life'

[lawyerlee]

Kansas serial killer jailed for 'life' (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050818/ts_nm/crime_btk_dc&printer=1;_ylt=AkMdSH.u6eyOgT0_.Ddufhhg.3QA;_ylu=X 3oDMTA3MXN1bHE0BHNlYwN0bWE-)
Reuters

Confessed Kansas serial killer Dennis Rader was sentenced on Thursday to 10 life sentences after two days of gruesome testimony, tearful pleas by victims' relatives for harsh punishment and Rader's own statement that demons drove him to torture and kill 10 people.

Sedgwick County District Judge Gregory Waller said the 60-year-old Rader will not be eligible for parole for at least 40 years.

Rader was arrested in February and pleaded guilty in June to stalking, torturing and killing 7 women, two children and one man. He is not eligible for the death penalty because Kansas did not reinstate capital punishment until after his crimes, which ran from 1974 to 1991.

In a rambling, disjointed statement offered just before the judge passed sentence, the former dog catcher, Boy Scout leader and church congregation president called himself a Christian, quoted a Bible verse and talked about demons he referred to as "factor X" that drove him to torture and kill.

"I hope someday God will accept me. The dark side was there, but now I think light is beginning to shine," he told the judge.

Rader, who had dubbed himself BTK for "bind, torture and kill," also spoke fondly of his victims, tearing up as he said he had a lot in common with them, attending the same church as one woman and sharing a love for animals with another.

VICTIMS

Rader's first victims were four members of the Otero family, including 11-year-old Justine, whom Rader hanged while he masturbated.

In another killing, Rader strangled a 53-year-old neighbor and took her body to a church, where he posed her in bondage positions on the altar as he snapped photos. He then rejoined the Boy Scout camping trip from which he had slipped away to commit the murder.

"This man needs to be thrown in a deep dark hole and be left to rot," a crying Beverly Plapp told the court. Rader killed Plapp's sister Nancy Fox in December 1977. He confessed to breaking into her home, binding her and strangling her before masturbating on her body.

As the family members took turns at the microphone, Rader removed his glasses, wiping his eyes and nose.

"It's been almost 19 years now that my brother and I had the most important woman in our life taken from us," said Stephanie Clyne, who was 10 when her mother Vicki Wegerle was murdered. "We didn't have enough time with her. Every day is a struggle to get through without her."

During the two days of testimony, law enforcement agents said that Rader, a married father of two, had a secret lifetime obsession with sexual bondage.

When he was young, Rader would dress in women's clothes, take pictures of himself and torture and hang animals, according to court testimony.

During his murder spree, he collected souvenirs from his victims to remember the thrill the crimes gave him and wrote down fantasies about how his victims would serve him as sex slaves and servants in the "afterlife," police said.

Plapp referred to that in her statement to the court.

"I have some afterlife scenarios for him," Plapp said. "On the day he dies, Nancy and all his victims will be waiting with God and watching as he burns in hell."

[LittleFredPunkinHead]

Do you know Diana, does he have to become eligible for parole? Or was that something the judge had some control over in the sentencing?

[lawyerlee]

Do you know Diana, does he have to become eligible for parole? Or was that something the judge had some control over in the sentencing?
The "worst" punishment we had on the books when he committed these crimes was the so-called Hard 40, which is where the idea that he won't be eligible for parole for at least 40 years comes from. The Legislature did not enact a true life sentence without the possibility of parole option until very recently. But I am acquainted with the members of the parole board, and I would bet a significant sum that Dennis Rader will never be paroled, even if he lives to be 200 years old.

Good question, though. :)

[usafwife]

Regarding the question about when he might be eligible for parole they said it would be at least 175 years before that would happen. So he won't ever have the chance of getting out. And he was sentenced to serve his 10 life sentences consectively instead of concurrently.

[Jaycee]

In a rambling, disjointed statement offered just before the judge passed sentence, the former dog catcher, Boy Scout leader and church congregation president called himself a Christian, quoted a Bible verse and talked about demons he referred to as "factor X" that drove him to torture and kill.

Next time someone tells you they're "a Christian" ... ;)

[lawyerlee]

Regarding the question about when he might be eligible for parole they said it would be at least 175 years before that would happen. So he won't ever have the chance of getting out. And he was sentenced to serve his 10 life sentences consectively instead of concurrently.
I'm not sure who said that, but it is actually incorrect. In this story, the judge says he won't be eligible for parole for at least 40 years, and this is correct. Under Kansas law at the time of his crimes, even if you were sentenced to ten life sentences, as he was, you are eligible to ask for parole after 40 years.

[BTB]

Next time someone tells you they're "a Christian" ...

Is that necessary?

Do we wink at Timothy McVeigh's rantings and ravings because hey, next time someone tells you they're "an American".... ;)

Do we want to restrict people's rights to call themselves whatever they want? Or do we prefer lunatics continue to say such things so we can use it as an opportunity to mock everyone said lunatics decide to associate themselves with?

[bethnjim]

Next time someone tells you they're "a Christian" ...

That is pretty offensive!!

[Tanya]

Next time someone tells you they're "a Christian" ... ;)
Wow. Are you implying that all Christians torture and kill (or at least think about it)? Because that's what I see. And that really doesn't deserve a "winky".

[Jaycee]

Wow. Are you implying that all Christians torture and kill (or at least think about it)? Because that's what I see. And that really doesn't deserve a "winky".
Nooooo, I was not implying anything of the sort!!absolutly not and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I was alluding to the fact that sometimes someone will use that as if it gives them some sort of extra credibility, and automatically makes them a good person.

[IrisHope]

Jaycee, I understood what you meant.

[lawyerlee]

Nooooo, I was not implying anything of the sort!!absolutly not and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I was alluding to the fact that sometimes someone will use that as if it gives them some sort of extra credibility, and automatically makes them a good person.
That's how I took your comment. It's sickening that he thinks labeling himself as a Christian wipes away these atrocious things he did. :( I hope God can help him. I don't know that anyone else can.

[LittleFredPunkinHead]

He must've bought his Bible in a seconds store, because he clearly missed that whole "Thou shalt not kill" part.

[Tanya]

Why pick on "Christian"? Why not "boy scout leader"? I have a feeling that if he had said he was "Muslim" people wouldn't be so willing to wave that comment away.

And I didn't see him saying that because he was a Christian it wipes away the things he did. Where was that?

Lots of crazy people claim to have done bad things in the name of God. Doesn't mean God, or even people who believe in whoever God they are alluding to, condone these things. That's all I was taking exception with.

[lawyerlee]

He was extremely active in his church and is always referring to himself as a Christian. I find that offensive, not Jaycee's comment. I think you might need to consider that you misunderstood her.

[Jaycee]

Why pick on "Christian"? Why not "boy scout leader"? I have a feeling that if he had said he was "Muslim" people wouldn't be so willing to wave that comment away.

And I didn't see him saying that because he was a Christian it wipes away the things he did. Where was that?

Lots of crazy people claim to have done bad things in the name of God. Doesn't mean God, or even people who believe in whoever God they are alluding to, condone these things. That's all I was taking exception with.
Because as I said, people say that all the time, as a way to gain credibility, and it just goes to show that not all good people are "Christian" and not all "Christians" are good people. I would have said the same thing had he said "I'm a Muslim" or "I'm a Jew".

ps. Boy scout leaders already have no credibility.

[Tanya]

Yes, I understand he was a pastor in his church, I've read a bit on the case. I admit my interpretation of her comment was kinda facetious, but any way I interpreted it, I found it offensive. I wasn't the only one. That's all. Carry on.

ETA:
Because as I said, people say that all the time, as a way to gain credibility, and it just goes to show that not all good people are "Christian" and not all "Christians" are good people. I would have said the same thing had he said "I'm a Muslim" or "I'm a Jew".
I have a problem with people trying to gain credibility by just saying they are Christian. That's just silly, why would I blindly trust someone because of what they say they identify with? There's an ad campaign running for "Christian Trial Lawyers," and it obviously plays off that mentality. Ridiculous.

[LittleFredPunkinHead]

ps. Boy scout leaders already have no credibility.
I was actually thinking the same thing. :D

[ginadc]

Why pick on "Christian"? Why not "boy scout leader"?

I would guess that that's because people don't nearly as often go around declaring "Hey, I'm a Boy Scout leader!" and waving that as a flag that people should automatically see as proving they're a good, trustworthy person.

I got your point too, Jaycee--that just because someone says they're a Christian doesn't mean they are automatically a good person, or that they live by the principles that most of us would probably think Christianity was founded on. (Side note: I am not Christian, but I always loved the comment my mom's best friend makes to her husband: "Chuuuuck, just because you go to church it doesn't mean you're a Christian. If you sat in the garage would it make you a car?")

It's interesting--someone raised this on an adoption message board I frequent, noting all the hoops that we have to jump through in order to be allowed to adopt, and wondering if, given his "pillar of the community" standing, this guy probably would have been given the green light to adopt a child should he and his wife have wanted to do so. :: shudder ::

[paiger]

I understood what you meant as well Jaycee. I just can't imagine that a person can go on so long without anyone know that he had this second side.

How many true serial killers have there been? Ones that led a second life and went on for years without people knowing what they were doing like this guy and Ted Bundy being a suicide hotline volunteer.

I am just really amazed sometimes at how truly complex and baffeling the mind/a human can be.

[paiger]

I have a problem with people trying to gain credibility by just saying they are Christian. That's just silly, why would I blindly trust someone because of what they say they identify with? There's an ad campaign running for "Christian Trial Lawyers," and it obviously plays off that mentality. Ridiculous.

But I think that there is a huge majority of people who are this trusting at least in a small town mentality. I don't know if you are from a big city, but I think even smaller cities have this 'trusting' feel to them.

[Jaycee]

Did anyone watch the dateline special where he was interviewed in jail? I stupidly watched it one evening while DH was out of town. I was so freaked out I had to take a Tylenol PM to go to sleep because I thought I kept hearing someone trying to break in. :eek:

[Tanya]

I would guess that that's because people don't nearly as often go around declaring "Hey, I'm a Boy Scout leader!" and waving that as a flag that people should automatically see as proving they're a good, trustworthy person.

They don't?? You haven't met the ones I know;). See my previous post, I understand what you are saying, and I find it terrible, as well.

And yes, it is mind-boggling how he was able to get away with this in front of all these folks for so long. I read the Reader's Digest article on this, and his dog-catching partner of 10 or so years or so was interviewed, and she had absolutely no idea. She had even discussed the case with him many times. She even found his evidence he left on the side of the road and told him about it. Crazy.

[APCullip22]

Thankfully Jaycee, I missed that interview. I understand what people are saying about his reference to being a Christian. The whole situation is very disturbing to me, as I'm sure it is to everyone who has heard about it. It's very shocking/alarming/eye opening to contemplate the fact that he was so sneaky about what he did, how he could carry on about his "normal" life and no one was the wiser...ewwww that's just unsettling if you ask me.

[lawyerlee]

He did a really good job of intimidating anyone who caught onto him for such a long time. :(

I know you don't understand what people in Kansas are like if you don't know them, but I defintely do. And the fact that he was a church dude gave him a LOT of credibility.

[ginadc]

Diana, I'm from Nebraska, which is close enough--and I know exactly what you mean.

[APCullip22]

Being a Christian myself, I totally understand the credibility that is associated with church go-ers IMO anyway. I don't know, it's just so creepy...In what readers digest is the article in? ETA Nevermind, just found it.

[lawyerlee]

Diana, I'm from Nebraska, which is close enough--and I know exactly what you mean.
I'm sure you do. We're certainly very similar. :)

And I guess some people might think that Wichita is big enough that it wouldn't be like that, but it is actually one of the most concentrated areas of conversative-thinking people in the state. It's very interesting.

[Tanya]

He did a really good job of intimidating anyone who caught onto him for such a long time. :(

I know you don't understand what people in Kansas are like if you don't know them, but I defintely do. And the fact that he was a church dude gave him a LOT of credibility.
Sadly, maybe this will wake people up to not be so blindly trusting. How many sleazy televangelists are there that people still think could do no wrong? No matter how many exposes? Scary :(.

[paiger]

I know you don't understand what people in Kansas are like if you don't know them, but I defintely do. And the fact that he was a church dude gave him a LOT of credibility.
I definitely can understand having always lived in the south. I grew up in tiny town KY and have never lived anywhere that could ever be called a city.

I am more amazed with his ability (and the ability of other serial killers) to cover up his double life and seemingly be just a 'normal, good ole, red blooded american' than that the people around him didn't know. It's something I just have no ability to comprehend.

[usafwife]

I'm not sure who said that, but it is actually incorrect. In this story, the judge says he won't be eligible for parole for at least 40 years, and this is correct. Under Kansas law at the time of his crimes, even if you were sentenced to ten life sentences, as he was, you are eligible to ask for parole after 40 years.


No death penalty at time
District Judge Gregory Waller handed Rader a sentence Thursday that was the stiffest possible; Kansas had no death penalty at the times of the murders. He is to serve 10 consecutive life terms with no chance of parole for 175 years. It's right here in this story. BTK story (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9005119/)

[lawyerlee]

It's right here in this story. BTK story (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9005119/)
That's interesting. They're completely wrong. I don't mean to sound like a know it all, but I'm an attorney in Kansas, and I have extensively researched this issue for legislators. After he serves 40 years, it will be entirely up to the Kansas Parole Board. Maybe they are looking at the sentencing guidelines or something and got confused. :confused: The sentencing guidelines don't apply to him because his crimes were committed before we had the guidelines, specifically, when we had the Hard 40 on the books.

[usafwife]

I've seen it in other stories that I've read as well. And it's been on the news here. And we aren't that far away from where it happened.

[lawyerlee]

I've seen it in other stories that I've read as well. And it's been on the news here. And we aren't that far away from where it happened.
Well, that's fine, but I'm telling you they are wrong. The story I posted even quoted the judge as stating what I am, and I'd certainly believe him over MSNBC. :)

I'm starting to see where this misinformation is coming from. The DA is trying to make it look like it is possible for Rader to be kept in prison for 175 years because of this sentence, when, under the law, he will actually be entitled to ask for parole after 40 years. This is one of many reasons why it is dangerous to always turn to prosecutors as your sources. They've got a version of events to spin, just like anyone else. :( Just because someone is sentenced to a particular number of months doesn't mean he will actually serve that sentence. This was one of the many arguments for enacting sentencing guidelines - truth in sentencing.

[usafwife]

If 40 years is the earliest then he'll be around 100 years old. I rather doubt that he would still be alive then.

All I know is what they have said here on the news regarding when he will become eligible to apply for parole.

[lawyerlee]

If 40 years is the earliest then he'll be around 100 years old. I rather doubt that he would still be alive then.
Well, obviously. But if he does live that long, he can apply for parole.

I wouldn't exactly consider the news the most informative source of legal information. I was trying to be nice by sharing my knowledge.