So "effin" over it already

[Kimberland30]

Deep breath.

This is an ongoing argument in so many households, I need to learn how to deal with it. Money. I've posted complaints in the money thread, but right now I just need support before I kill my DH.

We bring home a healthy income. We should have enough money to pay bills each week (we get paid weekly), put some aside, and have some to play with. SHOULD is the key word.

Right now we are applying for a mortgage. For the last month, I've been asking DH for his W-2's and paycheck stubs. He kept on forgetting. Finally last night he brings them to me, and when I go to send off the paperwork this morning, the stuff he gave me isn't even right. ARGH!!!!!!!

While looking over his paycheck stub from last week, I see that he brought home almost $500 more than what he put in the bank. I told him last Thursday that I'd like him to only take out about $50 until I got the bills in order over the weekend, but he said that he'd need more because of a golf tournament they were having on Friday. He knows money is tight. We are blowing through our savings trying to pay off credit cards to get our debt down for our mortgage approval.

I did the bills last night. I saw a charges that equaled $120 for the golf tourney on our online CC statement. DH also took out an additional $40 out of the bank using the ATM yesterday. So my question is, where the hell did that $500 go that he took out of his check on Friday?

We have the same argument over and over. He has promised NOT to use credit cards, debit cards or cash his paycheck...empty promises. I'm so pissed about this I'm about ready to cry.

Each week we both get the same amount of cash. I pay my daughters allowance with mine, and normally have a lot left over at the end of the week. Unless DH has to borrow some. Meanwhile, he blows through his cash by the end of the weekend and has NOTHING to show for it. WTH?

So what should I do? Cancel his bank card and get the credit card back from him...basically cut him off from getting any money? Treat him like he's a kid because he's so irresponsible? He acts like money grows on trees and doesn't take our financial future into consideration AT ALL. He takes out what he wants, spends what he wants, and f*ck what bills need to be paid.

Ugh, I'm so over it.

[southerner]

My DH was the same way, until we sat down together w/ a financial planner. Years later he has admitted to me that he understood it better and was more likely to listen to a non-biased third party. I think it was the colored graphics and charts that sealed the deal for him. I had talked to the guy ahead of time and let him in on my little secret. That way, he took more of a "if you don't start saving" approach with the FNA (Financial Needs Assessment).

Good luck, I know it's stressful!

[Marie]

Ugh. I feel your pain. My ex husband was the same exact way. After countless battles he agreed to give up his debit and credit cards and get a small allowance each month. Checks were turned over to me immediately and deposited. I think we did that about 3 years before he was trusted with his own stuff again - and he promptly went back to his old habits. :mad:

If he'll give up control to you and just get an allowance then great - if not I like the idea of talking to a financial planner. Does he see the budget and see what bills are being paid? If not, perhaps he really has no clue as far as what is coming in and going out each month?

[Trillian]

Maybe drag him to a Dave Ramsey seminar? He gets the point across in pretty simple terms. And he wouldn't be afraid to tell your DH he's being an idiot. ;)

[Kimberland30]

Southerner: I've considered a financial planner but I know it won't make a difference. It will be wasted time and energy to schedule an appointment with someone when there will be no follow through. I think DH seriously lacks the ability to think things through "long term". He brings up things like buying a boat or going to Jamaica next spring, and when I tell him we can't afford it, he says I'm being a "party pooper". :mad:

Marie: I would love it if DH did that with me also, but he'd probably feel like I was in too much control over everything. I've threatened to cancel his bank card over and over again, but I feel like crap for doing it and playing "mom" with him, you know? And no amount of "allowance" will be enough. I've tried just leaving some money in our savings account - a SMALL balance, and it's gone in a day. When he lost his bank card, he used the credit card (emergency credit card no less) and wrote checks out for cash. Do I just take it ALL away from him and ask that he give me his paychecks each week and I'll deposit it with mine?

As far as the budget, yes, he knows how much comes in and what goes out. He knows what our debt is, and how aggressive I want to be with it to get it reduced by spring. The reason we have this much debt in the first place is because we had to max out our credit cards to pay for the wedding HE wanted (I was totally on board, but stressed for 17 months on how we were going to pay for it while he did little to help).

Trillian: That would have no effect on him, unfortunately. He is so one sided about money, it's all about the "bottom line" meaning what he knows our combined income is. But when it comes to bills and savings, he is a complete MORON about it and is no help.

[lawyergirl25]

The first thing that came to mind is "direct deposit." Everything gets DD'd into our joint account, then I pay the bills, then I split the extra money and put it into our separate accounts (ETA: I forgot - I put a % in our joint savings too!). After years of frustration, we found this was the best way.

DH really hated my controlling the finances at first, said it made him feel like a kid. My way of thinking was, "If you want to act like a kid with our money, I'll treat you like a kid." I didn't say that to him, of course. ;) But it seemed like I could have him read books or attend seminars and it wouldn't matter. He would spend money like it was going out of style - wouldn't even keep a register or track his balance - and no amount of discussion, nagging, or even begging would work. I think now he's actually happy with the way things are - he doesn't stress over money like he used to, all of his bills are paid on time, and we're actually in a position where we could get a mortgage loan - but he did hate it at first.

I have to say, when all this went down it was the lowest point of our relationship. By the time I took control of the finances, we were arguing about money A LOT. I would say, nip this in the bud now. If you put it on the back burner, both of you will only get more frustrated.

[keska]

Maybe have him give up his debit and credit cards. That's what my parents did and they said they spend much less because they don't carry the cards around with them.

[Kimberland30]

Lawyergirl25: How I wish we could have DD!!! That would solve 90% of our problems right now. Do banks do it on an individual basis if HR at our company will do it? The problem is the checks. DH has sworn time and time again to deposit them. But then he claims that he is broke, has no time to go to "our" bank (a mile from the one his payroll check is drawn on), so he cashes it, sticks some in his pocket, then gives me whatever is left.

We've had numerous arguments about it, I've cried about it, but NOTHING is working. And you know, he's been this way since I've met him. I really thought that once we got over the spending on the wedding, it would even out. I was totally wrong about that. Everything looks better on paper.

I'm about to just meet him at the door, give him the checkbook, the bills, the budget and our credit card balance sheet and tell him to F himself and figure it out. Isn't that a lovely way to think of my DH of 3 months?

Keska: I think that is the way to go. The CC he has is supposed to be used for emergencies - but since when is golfing an emergency? But I'm going to get that, his debit card, and his checkbook. Maybe if I come across with LASER EYES he'll retreat and not gripe about it too much, you know?

[DiscoDiva]

I took away DH's credit cards and debit card in our first year of marriage when I realized how carried away he was getting. I told him, "If you're going to act like a child, I'm going to treat you like one." Sometimes you just have to do such things.

Plus, we had a long sit down talk in which I honestly told him that if he continued such behavior with money, which threatened our security and our future, then I would leave him. And I meant it. When it comes to me, you don't screw around with money!! DH knew how serious I was and things changed.

The biggest thing we discovered was that DH was never taught how to manage money. He had no idea how to make a budget, how to organize the bills and pay them on time, how to read a credit card bill and see what you are really paying for, etc. He didn't understand credit reports, how they affect you, nothing! So, I taught him. It was rough for a while, but we got through it and DH is MUCH better with money now.

[lawyergirl25]

I honestly don't know about the individual DD - I would look into that, especially if your employer's HR is willing to do it.

I know you were just kidding about putting him in charge of everything, but do not give him the power to screw up your finances. I hear all the time how I have to just let my DH have some responsibility and he'll grow up - that controlling the finances doesn't teach him anything, I'm overbearing, yadda yadda yadda. But you know what? It's my credit rating too.

[Kimberland30]

Oh I was definately kidding about letting him handle everything. I couldn't even imagine! You are totally right about it being my credit rating too. When we bought his truck last year, we had to use my credit score but his income. I'm just happy that we've been able to keep up with the bills, although I have been a couple days late with CC payments recently. Like say a bill is due on the 5th and I pay it on the 6th, but it doesn't hit our account until the 9th...stuff like that. I hope that doesn't affect my credit score especially since we are applying for a mortgage this week.

[paiger]

The biggest thing we discovered was that DH was never taught how to manage money. He had no idea how to make a budget, how to organize the bills and pay them on time, how to read a credit card bill and see what you are really paying for, etc. He didn't understand credit reports, how they affect you, nothing! So, I taught him. It was rough for a while, but we got through it and DH is MUCH better with money now.
This is so true about my DH. We have our most bitter fights about money, but it isn't really a fight b/c it's just me screaming my head off. I made a budget, then sat down and completely revamped our budget. It still came down to my giving up things (as I have issues spending, too), and him continuing to spend money. The only difference is that he as a grad student makes basically nothing, so he could just keep saying I'm not spending that much. What he doesn't understand is that right now, we can't afford even little extras.

I finally told him that if he was going to continue to act this way that my solution was going to be that he had to fend for himself, and I gave him 3 months to better the situation. I said that we would just make our relationship roomate based. Literally, I would move into the second bedroom and we would pay for things based on a percentage for who makes what. But, that he had to pay for his own car payment and everything that he does. He knows that right now he would get nowhere like that as we live in a nice apartment. He just wants to keep up w/ his bachelor, living in a shithole apartment grad school friends, and we can't.

He is getting better, but after another huge blowout, I finally realized that it's because he can't see the long term picture. He thought about it, and he admitted it was true. I still haven't been able to get that into his head as we really dented our savings account this summer not even taking a vacation. He is trying finally and seeing what I'm talking about, but it is still really hard for him. I am trying to be more patient as we have already paid off a large portion of cc debt, and I am definitely including him more in the budgeting so he sees what I am talking about. Unfortunately, we are using his student loan to help out paying things off, which I hate to use debt to pay off debt but that's what we need to do from a financial aspect.

[Kimberland30]

The biggest thing we discovered was that DH was never taught how to manage money. He had no idea how to make a budget, how to organize the bills and pay them on time, how to read a credit card bill and see what you are really paying for, etc. He didn't understand credit reports, how they affect you, nothing! So, I taught him. It was rough for a while, but we got through it and DH is MUCH better with money now.

I know this is totally true about my DH also. In fact, most guys are financially irresponsible. I have yet to meet one our age (mid 30's) who is financially stable or has a savings account. A lot of men also don't pay their credit cards. I know my brother and DH are so guilty of this.



It still came down to my giving up things (as I have issues spending, too), and him continuing to spend money.

I've done the same thing! Not only spending money on BS items, my DH likes to golf and fish. So over the last month, I've taken extra money we had and bought a crapload of scrapbook stuff. And I feel guilty over it! WTH? If we both take out money from our paychecks (a set amount), guarantee he's broke by Monday. Then he has to borrow from me.

[greenbunny]

Unfortunately money is not one of those things couples can "agree to disagree" about. I would say he's left you little choice other than to severely restrict his spending. Not only does he need to learn how to handle money, but he also needs to remember that it's now also his responsibility to set an example for your daughter.

[Tanya]

Your DH sounds just like my best friend's DH, except yours seems to have more hope;). The thing I don't get and I am constantly asking her, is what is he spending his money on?? She says, fast food, and she doesn't know what else. Come on, fast food shouldn't be $75 a day. My DH really doesn't spend any money on anything but lunch out, groceries, Home Depot, and bottles of wine;). Mine doesn't really shop for clothes or anything for his car, so I can't figure out what her DH spends money on. Do you know what your DH buys? Maybe that would help.

My BF's DH just bought a $20k boat that she finally gave in to after promising her he wouldn't buy a new car for a few years. Then last week he told her he wants a $40k truck. Yeah, unreal. Oh yeah, he hasn't had a job for almost 2 years--he's been living off workman's comp and a settlement. And he won't get a job because he doesn't "need to." She finally just got herself her own account with her paycheck deposited into it and is letting him fend for himself. He squirrels away money for himself and opens up secret credit cards, but if he ever caught her doing that, he'd flip. When they bought their house they used his salary (when he had a job) but her credit, since his is beyond terrible.

I really don't have any advice because everything I tell her doesn't work, but at least you know you're not alone. It's apparent he doesn't listen to what you have to say, but there's got to be something/someone out there he'd listen to. I wish you luck!

[lawyerlee]

One thing I'd caution you about, that I learned from my therapist, was that you should make yourself live by the exact same rules as you do him and be very open about that. For instance, you each have $100 spending money, in cash, that you can spend without any accountability to each other. Even though you know you can trust yourself to spend yours out of the account, it is important to do yours exactly like his. I honestly think you could end up with *more* problems if he feels like you're trying to parent him. I know that works for some people, but some partners will freak out about that. :)

[Kimberland30]

Not only does he need to learn how to handle money, but he also needs to remember that it's now also his responsibility to set an example for your daughter.

This is so true. Not only that, soon she'll be going to be getting braces, and that's going to run us about $200 each month. Yipes! But I won't put off getting her teeth fixed just because we can't save money.



Do you know what your DH buys? Maybe that would help.

Oh it's a little bit of this and a little bit of that. He goes to 7-11 at least 4 times a day (it's right next door to his work). Then there's cigarettes, and lunches, and who knows what else. I know he gets a lot of bottled water at 7-11. I can't find Disanti water in bulk at any store near us and that is the only type he drinks. :rolleyes:



you should make yourself live by the exact same rules as you do him and be very open about that.

That's a good idea. I also carry a credit card and the only time I've had to use it was when I couldn't find my bank card. It's easier for me to control my spending because I've been a single parent most of my life and I watch every penny that comes in and goes out. If he gives up his bank card, credit card and checkbook, I'll do the same. I know I can live within my "allowance" so it's not a problem for me. I definately don't want him thinking I'm babying him or trying to control him...I know guys tend to react that way. But at the rate we are going, we'll have no house, no savings, nothing for college for DD and no retirement plan and we'll be screwed unless something is done NOW.

[trefoil]

We had some trouble with our spending habits a bit at the beginning of the marriage. I believe in emergency savings, he feels that if we have the money, we should spend it. Anyway, after a couple of, in his mind, understandable mistakes, I took over the finances which he had previously been doing. I don't have to worry about his spending or credit cards as he is pretty responsible with them. We do sit down and make joint goals and so he has plenty of say in what we spend our money on, but I organize it and make sure that long-term savings receive contributions.

However, we have had a situation where I felt like "mother" in a mother/child relationship. Cleaning!! It doesn't matter how we divide the chores, he managed not to be able to get his share done in a given week. So, we would go through this cycle: I get angry, he gets sad and apologetic, I tell him to shove his apologies and start doing his cleaning, he does his share for a week or two, then the cycle repeats with me simmering for a few weeks and then blowing up. I have no accepted that he will just not get his weekly chores done each week. If the chores he has left undone are important to me, I'll need to ask him to do them (he may be lazy, but he does understand that we are in a partnership and if he is asked to do something, he will do it). While I used to feel like a nag or like I was treating him like a child, I now just consider myself a "household manager" and that I'm just delegating some of the responsibilities. It's really just a change in my perception of the situation. I can't change his behavior. I can just work with it and change how I think about it. Like I said, he will do stuff, it's just a matter of requesting at a given time that a certain item be done. If I ask him to do something in the next couple of weeks, there is almost no chance of it happening. If I ask him to do something now, he'll do it immediately unless there is a compelling reason not to. If he wants to put something off until the weekend, I'll need to remind him when we roll around to the weekend. It's just the way that we both get what we need. He needs to be told/reminded about things that need to happen around the house. I need for things to be done. Yes, I would prefer not having to remind him, but that preference isn't stronger than my preference that the item gets done.

Okay, so while that seems like a long tangent, here's where I'm going with it. Your DH can't handle credit cards, debit cards, cashing his own paycheck, etc. He just can't. You'll have to live with that limitation. He doesn't understand what classifies as an emergency. He likes golf, but that doesn't make golf an emergency and he doesn't understand that. If you are going to achieve your financial goals (which hopefully are joint goals), you'll probably need to get his various cards from him. Hopefuly, you agree about your goals and he understands on some level that he isn't able to control himself with money and so the takeover will be peaceful. It may not be. You can think of it as having to act like his mother and giving him an allowance, or you can decide that you are more skilled at finances and so you are the financial manager of your household. As such, you would need control of the finances, including his "emergency" cards. As long as he has a cell phone or a calling card, he can contact you in the case of a true emergency. Clearly, he can't stay within his current "allowance" and so you might try upping that a tiny bit ($20 maybe) to soften the blow of him not seeing all of his paycheck anymore. Definitely contact his workplace and your bank and see if you can set up an individual DD. It would save you from any unnecessary stress of getting his paycheck from him, especially if he does act a bit childish and tries to keep it from you. In order for this to be effective, you'll have to stop loaning him money from your part of the "allowance" system. He needs to actually learn to spend from a set amount. Really, how much planning does one week take? I doubt you married an imbecile. He'll figure it out. I would anticipate that your gifts are going to be very sad for awhile. If he can't figure out how to make money last a week, he isn't going to be able to save to get you something nice. It's always sad to see a clearly thrown-together gift and so it might be something to emotionally prepare yourself for.

I do agree with lawyerlee that you should follow the same rules. For you, it won't be a problem. However, it will show him that it is a joint effort, not him being singled out.

Granted, everything I'm suggesting here is what I'm suggesting you *do,* not how I'm suggesting you phrase things. ;) You know how to be best phrase things to make them easiest on his ego.

[Kimberland30]

trefoil: ITA with everything you wrote. I won't even start in on the housework, but I totally know where you are coming from. On one hand I know my DH likes that I take care of the bills, no matter how much I get on his butt. He always calls me the CFO of the family. So I think if I approach it from a standpoint that we BOTH need to cut it way back and get on a pattern of using our money wisely, hopefully he won't feel like I'm babying him. I'll bring up that we have long term goals (a trip to Jamaica...and maybe eventually a boat). Maybe we can try it out for a month and see how that works...and make small adjustments then. I think not being able to access cash readily is going to make a big difference. Or at least I hope so.

[paiger]

We ended up doing the joint account w/ each of us having an individual account that was givine $40 a month. He was amazed that I was going to do the same for me, but I told him that we were both going to be accountable. He was much more into it when I told him that I was going to put personal extras at Target on my account (like nailpolish).

I did end up having write 'joint' on his joint account debit card, b/c he kept getting them mixed up :rolleyes:! However, he really wants to do better, so we are both attacking our putting things on his credit card (that generally doesn't carry much of a balance) this upcoming month.

The summer is SO hard: weddings, more going out and get togethers, less desire to cook, more things that come out of no where, etc, etc, etc. By including DH in seeing how things pop up that we need money for, he has definitely started to see the light (but unfortunately, he is still really far away from reaching it).

[MidwesternGal]

Okay, WOW--I am so glad that there are other DH's out there with the same problem as mine!!

We're young, and due to my giving up a 'career' job right now in order to forward DH's career, we are on a strict budget (think, total income VERY below 40k). DH grew up in a family that lived paycheck to paycheck, and even after his parents had more money, they still did that. No financial skills whatsoever got passed down. I, however, was taught from my very first babysitting job, that (if you can afford it) 1/2 a paycheck goes into fun, 1/2 goes to bills! Granted, that is impossible now, but I still am of that mindset.

DH came to the realization that he couldn't help himself, and we were fighting about money all the time. One day he got mad, threw the checkbook at me, and told me to take care of it. I never gave him it back (unless he was heading out to make "authorized" charges). We now have $1000 more in our savings account since he did this. He gets a weekly allowance of $70 cash. I get a weekly allowance of $40 cash, plus I put my hair coloring/cuts on the credit card, so that pretty much works out to about $70 a week by the end of the month.

We still fight about money, and I HATE that I have to be the "mom" and tell him "no" all the time. BUT, I'd rather be "mom" then let him squander away our hard earned money on cigarettes and CDs and eating out.

The newest fight is over getting him a new-er vehicle. He doesn't understand that we cannot keep our current lifestyle (which is all ready extremely modest!) AND get a new vehicle. I mean, YES, we could afford one IF and only if, he gave up his "allowance," gave up cable, gave up internet, gave up going to his figure 8 races, etc. He doesn't seem to "get" that he can't have both.

**It doesn't help that his parents recently came into an inheritence and have bought 2 Harleys and a new house and are taking lots of time off work. . . he can't understand that they are 40+ and have paid their dues, not 20-somethings just starting out. He thinks he should have it ALL and have it ALL RIGHT NOW. Sorry, dear, but life does not work like that!**

Based on all that, here is my advice for future money fights (You probably have done the first part, but bear with me until the second part.):

1. Go over your current budget. List all your bills, and the cost of EVERYTHING down to spending money, gas, groceries, etc. (Total and average your last 3 month's expenditures for gas/groc/spending to get a clue on how much this should be. If you don't keep track, start.). Then write down how much TAKE-HOME pay you get, and subtract it. The leftovers should go into savings for new vehicle, emergency fund, paying off the mortgage quicker, or investment. Remember, you all ready accounted for your personal spending money within the budget.

2. You need to write this down VERY VERY simply and explicitly, explain it ONCE to DH, make sure he understands and agrees (heck, even have him sign it!) and then hang it on the refrigerator. EVERY time thereafter in which he starts to pick a fight about money, walk over to the refrigerator, point to the budget and say, "This is our budget. We went over it once, and we agreed to the spending allowance and the amount we're putting towards x (savings, investment, extra on mortgage, etc). Unless you know of a change that I am unaware of, then we're sticking to it as we all ready agreed."

Lastly, just walk away and refuse to argue any more. He can't really put up a fight if the numbers that he's all ready "signed off on" (literally or figuratively) are staring him in the face.

Good luck!!!!

[mollyeilis]

First let me say that I'm not perfect, we do have fights over money. I'm not being "holier than thou". In fact, I'm not even speaking from my own experience, but rather, from my mom's.

Actually, first let me be basic and not talk about dire stuff. :)

If you have direct deposit for his check, he will HAVE to have access to it. When DH was being stupid with money I asked my bank, and they said the name on the check has to have access to it. I also know this from a friend who tried, with her then-fiance's help, to have his paycheck blocked from him.

But this cashing the check thing has GOT to stop.

That's what my friend's then-fiance was doing, and that's what my mom's second husband did. In the days of my then-stepdad, I don't know what they did about paystubs, but my mom never knew what Joe actually made (only what she was told). They would both bring home "enough" to make the significant other not suspect, but they had a LOT that wasn't showing up.

Dire...

In the case of my friend's then-fiance, he was gambling. Gambled online, mainly. Gambled it all away. She ended up leaving him and he went back to the midwest to live with his family and do some sort of intervention.

In the case of my stepdad, oh, I don't want to go into the details. My mom was still finding things out YEARS after their divorce. Decades, actually. There were illegal guns, the people from whom he bought the guns were also drug dealers (our neighbors, how lovely, yes?), and, well, there were drives to Nevada...long enough drives to get to the county where one certain illegal thing is legal. bleah.

She knew that this sort of thing was going on, she knew it from about their first week of marriage. She decided to ignore it, thinking that he was surely talking about his past, not his future. But it wasn't.

I'm not saying that your DH is doing really bad things with the money. But I just don't see how 4 trips a day to 7-11 is going through 500 bucks. There should be something *tangible* coming into the house with that kind of money. And if nothing new is coming into the house, then there's something going on.

And before you can make ANY decisions about it, you have to find out EXACTLY what he's spending the money on. Convince him you won't be mad, but you need to know what he's doing with the money. You need receipts, you need him to give you an accounting of the money. Only then can you figure out what your response is.

I was in your daughter's position (I assume she's his stepdaughter?) once. I loved my stepdad and didn't want him to leave (and I am still sad he never once contacted me or my brother after the divorce, after knowing us for 9 years). I knew he bought lots of presents and I knew they fought over money. But decades later, when I found out what he was spending that money on and the sheer amount of money he'd blown on it...I wished she wouldn't have ignored what she heard in their first month of marriage, and I wished she'd just have annulled the brand new marriage. What it did to my mom wasn't pretty, and what it did to my heart (and my little brother's psyche) was just too damaging.


ALL that said, it's hard to believe there's another person out there like my mom's second husband! So it's probably just stupid stuff like cigarettes and bottled water and maybe stuff he's keeping in his truck rather than bringing into the house. But you can't know until you know.

[lawyergirl25]

If you have direct deposit for his check, he will HAVE to have access to it. When DH was being stupid with money I asked my bank, and they said the name on the check has to have access to it. I also know this from a friend who tried, with her then-fiance's help, to have his paycheck blocked from him.
I don't think anyone was suggesting he not have access at all, but that the OP should take away his debit/credit cards. It's much easier to spend when you can just use your card all day long and you don't see the money actually coming out of the account. DH is like that, and when he had to actually go to the bank during normal hours and wait in line to get money, it made him think twice about spending money.

[Tanya]

I'm not saying that your DH is doing really bad things with the money. But I just don't see how 4 trips a day to 7-11 is going through 500 bucks. There should be something *tangible* coming into the house with that kind of money. And if nothing new is coming into the house, then there's something going on.
Exactly. I still think my BF's DH is doing something sketchy with the money (gambling, stashing it away), and she has no idea where it is all going since he won't account for it by giving her receipts. Of course, she thinks nicer of her DH, but my advice would be to get him to at least show you receipts (just have him empty his pockets) and keep your eyes open.

[Rose]

I don't think anyone was suggesting he not have access at all, but that the OP should take away his debit/credit cards.

Couldn't her DH just go and get a new card if he is on the account?

I totally understand, I have my own problems with DH & money, but it seems like that won't solve the problem if it's not something they both agree on.

[Kimberland30]

Up until the money this weekend (which I just found out about yesterday and today by looking at the statements), everything DH has spent has been accounted for. He always gives me receipts, even for cash purchases because he doesn't go through them first. Say he goes to 7-11 and spends $10.00 there each time (smokes, water, food, snacks, etc). It adds up over the course of a weekend. DH smokes at least 2 packs a day, and at $4.00 a pack, it isn't cheap. But that's another story. :(

He very well could have donated some of that money to the charity that was holding the golf tournament...I really won't know until our talk tonight about all of this. But deep down I know it's not going to something bad. I was in a serious relationship for 3 years with a guy who's money went up his nose, only I didn't realize it at first. The guy I dated after him had the same problem but I recognized the signs right away and dumped him. I look very closely at our statements and bank account out of habit. There aren't any funny charges. Plus, DH usually deposits his paycheck then takes cash out, so I can see what he brought in and what he took out. I can usually tell if there are cents in the totals, he usually keeps his change and deposits only bills if he cashes his check. Now that I look at the total of his checks and what was deposited, there is a difference of $250. Plus the $40 he took out yesterday and the $120 he charged on our account for the tournament. So it's $400 total, not $500 missing like I thought before (if that makes any difference).

We do have a monthly budget. Since we get paid each week, we pay bills each week. I have what is due, what we bring in for income, and what's left over. With that, I decide how much to put in our various savings accounts. Misc. bills pop up now and then and set us behind based on what I have budgeted, but it's rare. DH is aware of all our bills. I have him sit with me when I do the bills so he knows what's being paid out. The month before last I went ape shit over the grocery bill, and since then I've been clipping coupons going to the grocery store ONCE per week instead of several times. That has helped us a lot.

I also have a credit card payment plan that I've been trying to stick to. Using that, we've paid off two CC's in the last 2 months. Granted they haven't been big balances, but the money I've been putting towards those to get them paid off will go to the larger ones. I have this printed out and he's seen it over and over again.

My intent isn't to totally cut him off from any money or the bank account...just make it more difficult for us both to access our money right away. I'm in this as much as he will be because I want him to stick with it and not feel like it's all on him. He's never had to worry about a wife or kids or savings or buying a house before. This is all new to him. He's used to having "single money" and now it's "family money" (to quote Jeff Foxworthy :)).

He just has to understand what our short term goals should be (pay off credit cards, get approved for a mortgage at a good rate), and what our long term goals are (vacations, home repairs). If I have to post something to the fridge door to remind him of that daily, I'll do it. :)

[Kimberland30]

Rose, my DH could definately get a new card if his are gone. But, I honestly don't think he will.

Take his CC for instance. I paid it off in late June. He knows there is available money on it. We want to keep that account open for right now until we get a mortgage because our other cards are pretty high, and our credit ratio (what we have in credit and what we've spent in credit) is pretty high. Closing that account will make the ratio even higher...if that makes any sense. Anyway, his card expired and he got a new one (automatically) and it's still sitting in our bill drawer - unactivated. When it came in I told him that I don't want him using it because of our credit score, and he was fine with that. His name is only on that one and one of mine that he keeps in his wallet (for another hour at least).

[ejs]

My ex-SIL resorted to taking away the checkbooks, CCs, and ATM cards from my brother because he wasn't responsible with money.

Maybe your DH needs to see something visual, like a colored chart or graph showing him the money coming in, the money going out for bills, and the money going out for extras.

Does he at least acknowledge that he's wasting money on things? Or does he only get defensive?

[lawyergirl25]

Couldn't her DH just go and get a new card if he is on the account?

I totally understand, I have my own problems with DH & money, but it seems like that won't solve the problem if it's not something they both agree on.
Well, of course I didn't mean "take away" as in forcibly grab them and refuse to let him have them. (I have a vision of Kimberland dangling the cards over her husband's head as I type that. :) ) It doesn't sound like he's financially responsible enough to have instantaneous access to the account funds, and forcing him to make the drive and take the time to withdraw money manually may make him think more about his spending habits.

[Asha]

i would take a pay yourself first mentality, meaning that you immediately deposit a set amount of money each month into a money market account, savings account, or a roth ira (if you qualify). then pay your bills. after that, determine how much "free" spending money you will each have on a monthly basis.

i don't like the idea of having to tell my dh where every single penny i have spent goes. therefore, we have a certain amount of money we can spend each month without having to account for it.

[Kimberland30]

Well we've had "the talk". And we're still married so that's a good sign. LOL :)

Actuallly it went really well. The charges to our CC account were not for the tournament, it was from when he played golf with my brother last weekend. The cash he took out was for the tourney and spending money...but that still doesn't explain how come he went through it so quick and had to take out money twice this week.

He handed over his ATM card (that he never uses and I didn't know he had), his check card, and his credit card. The checkbook was on the counter from when we ordered pizza. I took all my cards and checkbook out of my wallet too and put everything together. We agreed that if we need to get gas or groceries, we'll take either the card or checkbook and use it for its purpose, then put it back.

I told him that there is money in our general savings account (very minimal) and if he needs it, he has to go to the bank to get it...same with me. Our checks are to be DEPOSITED each week, and we specified an amount of cash that we'll take out each week.

He even suggested selling his truck - it's a hefty payment - but we don't have to go that extreme. Our bills equal a little less than half of what we make, it's all the other BS that we spend money on that's draining us. I think he was mad for a while, but I explained that I'm to blame also. I can't come down on him too hard when I've spent $200 on scrapbook supplies in the last month (although it was only because he spends way more on golfing and fishing). :o

Anyway, we'll see how this goes. He only had $4 left so I gave him $20 of mine. I told him that borrowing from me isn't fair and he really needs to figure out what he spends so much on and decide how to adjust his "needs" so that he isn't broke a few days after getting his weekly cash. Even if that means bringing his lunch, eating a cheaper lunch, or (GASP) drinking tap water.

Starting next month I'll do up another budget, making sure to put money in savings each payday. We are going on vacation at the end of the month, and that's a week's pay I won't be getting. Luckily I planned ahead for it and put one of my paycheck into savings to cover it. He should get vacation pay so we should be able to keep that money in savings and build on it.

I've even considered opening up an ING or similar online account. That way the money isn't accessible by driving to a bank. I guess it couldn't hurt right?

[bluberry]

[/B]I think these ladies have given you some food for thought. I really don't have any advice to contribute since my DH has the opposite problem (doesn't spend enough). But I did want to say that this doesn't add up:


Say he goes to 7-11 and spends $10.00 there each time (smokes, water, food, snacks, etc).

Let's say he DOES go 4 times a day...that's $200 from Monday-Friday. Which doesn't explain the other $200. I understand that he smokes 2 packs a day ($8), but there is NO WAY he is spending $32 a DAY on water, food and snacks. No. Way. He'd have to buy like 30 things for it to add up to that! Please take a closer look and try to figure out where it is indeed going.

[B]Kim[B], I can see that you have pure intentions but this makes absolutely no sense...
He only had $4 left so I gave him $20 of mine. I told him that borrowing from me isn't fair

It's only Tuesday and he's spent his weekly $400 already? Do you see what I mean about things not adding up? Also, why are you lending him your money? You're right, it isn't fair and I don't think you should have lent it to him.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, I am just mad FOR you. ;)

[greenbunny]

Another little mind game you can use: when you mentioned taking out the card or the checkbook, definitely use the checkbook and make him write the check. It's so easy and fast to swipe a card. If he has to stand there and fill out the amount, while everyone behind him in line is getting impatient, maybe that number will really hit home in his mind. Plus, guys are generally impatient. If you make it an annoying hassle to do a transaction, maybe you can condition him to dislike spending money.

[Kimberland30]

Bluberry, I don't mind harsh! You are totally right. The main reason I gave him the $20 was because I "suddenly" stripped him of any access to money. If I'd said "Hey, starting Monday we are going to keep our CC's, debit cards and checkbooks locked up" he might have been able to curb his spending because he anticipated it. Maybe that makes no sense.

He also had a golf tournament that he paid for $150. If you add in beer and snacks (and I'm sure he bought a round for his team), that would equal out to the $200. :)

Greenbunny, that is a cute little trick! I know that he hates to write checks. He'll write 3 to my 30. :)

Well, to add insult to injury, I was laid off my job yesterday. I got severance pay (plus what I set aside for my upcoming unpaid vacation) and that should hold us over until next month. Unemployment won't kick in for 3 weeks, so if that won't make us watch our spending, I don't know what will. :) We should be able to do just fine until I find another job, but this might open his eyes. This makes the third time I've been unemployed in the last year (I'm seriously considering another field), but we've always had our "wedding fund" to fall back on...which is why we have a lot of debt now.

When it rains it pours!

[trefoil]

Oh no! I'm so sorry that you were laid off. :( I hope that you find something new in no time!

[Kimberland30]

Thanks! Fortunately I've been in the biz for a while now (12 years) so I have a lot of contacts. Right now it's just a matter if I want to stay in this type of work or go on to something else. With us trying to get a mortgage though, a change might not be my best option. But we'll see. Thanks for the good luck wishes!

[lawyerlee]

I'm so sorry to hear the bad news about your layoff. :( But that's great that you had such a positive talk about the situation. It sounds like you handled things really well, and he responded quite favorably. :)

The ING savings account sounds like a good idea. Another good thing is that I hear you can get a pretty good interest rate compared with your run of the mill savings account, too. That would certainly be nice!

I hope you're able to find another position in your field very shortly. Good luck with your job hunt. :)