Hybrid Cars

[Bellefior]

What do you think about hybrid cars in general, and do you know of any problems with them?

[emmjay]

Our next car will be a hybrid. I think they are great, not only because of the fuel economy but because I like to support alternative energy sources to oil. As for trouble with them, I think the earlier ones had more problems because the technology was newer, but I personally haven't heard of any problems lately.

Which one are you looking at? I like the Toyota Prius but the last time I looked into it, it didn't come with manual transmission and I don't really like automatics.

[kemaji]

I don't have any first hand experience with hybrid cars, however if you have a specific model in mind I would suggest getting a short term Consumer Reports online subscription so you can check them out and research more completely.

[fuzzy]

I've always read that they are good cars, generally speaking, but that the adervtised gas mileage is not exactly realistic. In other words, the advertised rate *is* the optimum GPM, but in order to get that you have to mimic their testing conditions, which is usually something like driving at a constant 20 MPH on a flat surface with no stops...or something like that.

Not that I'm discouraging the sale of hybrids -- I think they are great. I'm just sayin'. :)

[dionysia]

I'd love to buy a hybrid.

Unfortunately, when I was in the market for a new vehicle (late 2001), the only hybrids out there were the Insight (ick! too small!) and the Prius. The first generation Priuses (Prii?!) were not all they were cracked up to be and had reliability issues. If only the Civic hybrid had been out at that time, I would have seriously considered it.

Then when DH and I were in the market for a new vehicle to replace his (mid last year), the only hybrids available for the kind of car we wanted was the Ford Escape hybrid. Enh, no thanks. The Toyota Highlander itself was too big for our needs and the hybrid was put off for several months anyway (wasn't available until late '04 - early '05). The Lexus SUV was not yet available either and frankly is out of our price range.

That being said, we'd love to have a hybrid as our next car. I hope that the Big 3, Honda, & Toyota can address the consumer demand for hybrids, which some of the companies have downplayed or even denied existing. Really? How come there are huge waiting lists for the models out, hmmm? If they can produce enough to satisfy the demand and can lower the difference between the hybrid & conventional models to a reasonable amount (sorry, a $10K difference is not reasonable!), I'm there.

ETA: I second the recommendation of Consumer Reports. Hells, get a subscription to the magazine; it's well worth it.

Di

[greenbunny]

I read several years ago that the extra cost of the car would be more than the average person would save on gas. But I'd assume with skyrocketing gas prices and improved technology that that might no longer be accurate. And saving fossil fuels is always a good thing, whether you're actually seeing a difference in your pocket or not.

[villanelle75]

Anyone know about repair costs? We are just starting to think about a new car pruchase and this is a mojor concern. I'm guessing that repairs must be done by the dealer since the average reapir place down the street probably isnt' familiar with hybrid technology, and i'm guessing that they'll charge a premium because they can. Anyone know anything about this?

[emmjay]

And saving fossil fuels is always a good thing, whether you're actually seeing a difference in your pocket or not.
Definitely - I would get one regardless of the purchase price, just because saving fossil fuels is more important to me than saving a few grand.

dionysia- are there still problems with the Prius? I didn't look too deeply into it before, I just liked it based on looks and availability. ;)

[Sevilla]

1. The 2004 Prius is the first year that the technology and all the kinks were really fine-tuned. So if you get a 2004 or newer Prius it shouldn't have any problems that i've heard of. That is the car my DH and I wanted to get but cost was an issue so we got a Scion Xa instead.

2. If you buy a hybrid new (or even recently used) it should still come with the dealer warranty. We tend to take our cars to get serviced at Toyota dealers even when we don't have a warranty and haven't had a problem, so if i had a hybrid i'd to the same thing.

ETA: I third and fourth the suggestion to get Consumer Reports (if you go to Barnes and Noble they have a specific 'new car guide' and 'used car guide' that is really helpful).

[dionysia]

dionysia- are there still problems with the Prius? I didn't look too deeply into it before, I just liked it based on looks and availability. ;)Emmjay - I believe the reliability has improved; Consumer Reports has reviewed the Prius recently. Check it out! :)

Di

[lawyergirl25]

I'm totally with emmjay on this one. I'm getting a Prius in December (for Christmas!) and I'm not doing it because I expect to save a lot of money in the long run. I'm doing it because I want to save fossil fuels.

I wish the Big 3 would offer hybrid alternatives. I hate buying non-American, but I'm going to have to if they don't get their butts in gear!

[dionysia]

Melinda-
Ford offers the Escape hybrid.

From http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0508060114aug06,1,2361278.story?coll=chi-business-hed
General Motors will introduce versions of the Saturn Vue SUV and Chevrolet Malibu sedan with limited hybrid systems over the next two years and full hybrid versions of the Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon in late 2007.

The Chrysler Group is collaborating with GM and will use its system in the Dodge Durango in 2008.

IMNSHO, most of my Honda was assembled in the US, so I don't worry about not buying a Big 3 car. ;)

Di

[lawyergirl25]

Okay, wait, sorry - I want a hybrid that is American and not a Ford.

I hate Ford. ;)

But thank you for posting that info about GM, Di. I have a Malibu now and would definitely be interested in getting a hybrid version instead of a Prius.

[Sha259]

I don't have any first hand experience with hybrid cars, however if you have a specific model in mind I would suggest getting a short term Consumer Reports online subscription so you can check them out and research more completely.

I would also recommend this. I didn't get a hybrid , but it helped me get another reliable car. And even though I have had no experiences with hybrids, CR sings the praises of the Toyota Prius.

[lawyergirl25]

Just checked the GM website:

2006 - GM will introduce the Belt Alternator Starter hybrid system in the Saturn VUE (2007 model year). Provides 10 percent improved fuel economy and an affordable hybrid option for consumers.

2007 - GM will introduce the Belt Alternator Starter system in the Chevrolet Malibu. Provides 10 percent improved fuel economy.

GM will introduce the world's first two-mode full hybrid in full-size SUVs (Tahoe and Yukon). Provides at least a 25 percent improved fuel economy.
Looks like I'll have to wait until 2007 to get my hybrid Malibu. DH is interested in getting a hybrid as well, so maybe we'll buy a Prius in December as planned and then get either a hybrid VUE or Malibu for him in a few years. We'll see, though. I know he says he interested, but then his head spins around every time we see a muscle car go by. And those are great on gas. :rolleyes:

[Rancid13]

If I had a choice of hybrid vehicles, I would choose the Civic Hybrid. The Accord is really nice too-I mean, the Accord and the Civic hybrids both look like their non-hybrid counterparts but get excellent mileage.

I don't know what state you're in, but in California they're approving a bill that will allow drivers of highly efficient hybrids (45+ mpg) to drive in the carpool/HOV lanes solo with the purchase of an $8 sticker from the DMV. The 3 cars that currently fit reqirements are the Toyota Prius, Honda Civic Hybrid, and Honda Insight. That will be a huge deal here, where you have a lot of people with hybrids that drive solo to and from work every day...I'm even thinking about purchasing a Civic Hybrid as my next car in the next few years. My car is 9 years old and although it still gets 25-30 mpg, it's getting up there in mileage (almost 200K)...

Article from the OC Register (because you have to sign in and be a 'member' to read the website so a link didn't seem like a good idea, I wanted everyone to be able to see it):

Thursday, August 11, 2005

Hybrids to HOV
Law allows drivers of gas-saving vehicles to use car-pool lanes even when alone.

By SORAYA SARHADDI NELSON
The Orange County Register


SACRAMENTO - Hybrid car drivers who have been aching to move into the HOV lane have finally gotten a green light. A new state program announced Wednesday allows owners of approved hybrid vehicles to apply for a special decal that will let them use car- pool lanes even if they are alone in their cars.

The measure was approved by state lawmakers last year to reward drivers of energy- efficient and low-emissions vehicles. But it wasn't formally adopted until Wednesday when President George W. Bush signed a federal transportation bill clearing the way for California to become the second state in the union to enact it.

The state needed federal buy-in to avoid putting federal highway funds at risk.

Only certain models that officially get at least 45 miles per gallon will be eligible for the decal, which will cost $8. Certain other vehicles, including motorcycles and electric cars, are already eligible.

The hybrid policy change surprised some backers of the state bill. One of them, bill author Assemblywoman Fran Pavley, D-Agoura Hills, said she had expected clean-air regulators to take time ensuring that their version met federal regulations, but that she was pleased nonetheless.

Gennet Paauwe, spokeswoman for the state Air Resources Board, said the board had time to review both measures before Bush signed the federal bill and decided to proceed immediately.

"It's a common-sense policy that represents yet another step toward cleaning up our environment and reducing air pollution," Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said in a statement. "The more we can encourage Californians to buy and drive cleaner-air hybrid cars and trucks and give them some incentive to do so, the better off we will be."

According to the DMV, there are 57,164 hybrid vehicles registered in California. An Orange County Toyota salesman said he expected HOV-lane incentive to boost sales of his company's Prius hybrid sedan, which is so popular that there's usually at least a 30-day wait to get one.

"I'd already seen a dramatic increase in sales over the past 21 to 30 days," because of soaring gas prices, said Tustin Toyota salesman Greg Vernon. "But the phone is already ringing off the hook today (Wednesday) with people excited about the news. Three called me in the last hour."

Prius owner Pat Livingston of Newport Beach said she was thrilled the decals would finally be available. She anticipates being able to shave 15 minutes off her 50-minute drive to Torrance on weekdays to visit friends.

"It's definitely going to be an advantage to use them," she said. "On Tuesday afternoon I had my college roommate and her husband with me from Boulder (Colo.), and we used the carpool lanes to go watch a TV taping in Los Angeles. We saved a lot of time."

Irvine Mayor Larry Agran, who recently bought a Prius, said he, too, planned to apply for a sticker although he didn't know how often he'd exercise his new privilege, given how crowded car-pool lanes can be.

HOV lanes are traditionally reserved for cars carrying at least two people.

"I probably will use it from time to time although I try to be kind to myself and considerate of others," he said. "I don't want to feel like I'm taking advantage of anyone."

[hockeybrat]

My next car will be a Prius. In Washington State, it will allow me to be exempt from emissions testing which I think is nice. I've been internet car shopping for years now and I think I am coming up with a car that is practical and (hopefully) large enough for a child (one day). Haven't test driven them yet but I will when I get closer to placing my order.

I have read that there were some recalls on the 2004 and early 2005 due to some computer glitch which caused it to lose power during the drive but Toyota sent out notices to have them repaired.

We have looked at the Honda Hybrids but from what I have read, they aren't "full" hybrid systems right now, the electric engine is used along with the gas engine to help accellerate. Whereas the Toyota system is more of a full hybrid where the electric engine will kick in at low speeds and you can actually cruise (what Priuschat (http://www.priuschat.com/forums/) folks call "stealth" mode) for a bit (not sure how long exactly but I know you can't for miles upon miles).

I've looked in the Prius and for a smaller car (compared to my Camry), it looks really roomy inside and the technology they offer on these cars are really cool (the Smart Key system and the push button technology).

My husband is also looking at hybrids but will wait for a few more years until there are more choices for SUV hybrids though he loves that Lexus 400h.

[emmjay]

Emmjay - I believe the reliability has improved; Consumer Reports has reviewed the Prius recently. Check it out! :)

Di
Thanks! I'll look into it - we're not really in the market right now but we'll probably need a 2nd car in the next couple of years (I have a moped right now).

I hate my DH's car - he has a 1995 Ford Explorer which he bought before we even met, so it's paid off (which is why we're keeping it). The gas mileage sucks, and on top of that it's not even 4WD - why do we have this ridiculous car?? I always ask my DH why he even bought it - an SUV w/out 4WD is like a 3-speed Corvette. What's the point? :rolleyes:

ETA - I hate cars. I haven't owned one since 1997, but my husband seems to think that I will need one if/when we have kids. I don't think we will (a baby will fit in my moped basket, right? ;) ), but we'll have to wait and see. If we do, it will be a hybrid - that will make me feel slightly better about the stupid Explorer.

[angelpalgt]

I have a Toyota Prius and I LOVE it! We bought it because we really hate the fact that our economy is so dependent on oil. That, and (as my family says), DH and I are tree-huggers anyway.

The car runs so smoothly and is so dependable so far. We get roughly 46 mpg during the spring and fall months, though it drops to about 45 during the winter (for the heater) and right now we're down around 43 during the hot part of the summer (100 degree + days make that AC work!).

I love how quiet the car is and it is still quite roomy inside. I think there is more space in the Prius than there was in my Saturn L200. DH and I tried out the Honda Civic Hybrid during our decision making time, and we just preferred the Prius based on the way it drove, style, and hybrid system, so we went on the wait list. Since they stepped up production, though, I don't think most places have a wait list anymore.

I really like the keyless entry system where I never have to take my keys out of my purse. We find that we still fill up about as often as before since the tank is only about 10 gallons, but when we do fill up, it is nice that it is so much cheaper than it was previously.

So, there is a review from a Prius owner. I highly recommend my car to others and I think it is definitely worth the investment. On top of that, Toyota plans to convert their entire line of cars over to hybrid technology in the next few years, so keep an eye out for the changes.

[greenbunny]

I always ask my DH why he even bought it - an SUV w/out 4WD is like a 3-speed Corvette. What's the point? :rolleyes:


You sound like my husband! I always wanted an old Mustang and he says there's no point unless I learn to drive stick.

[hockeybrat]

I have a Toyota Prius and I LOVE it! We bought it because we really hate the fact that our economy is so dependent on oil. That, and (as my family says), DH and I are tree-huggers anyway.

The car runs so smoothly and is so dependable so far. We get roughly 46 mpg during the spring and fall months, though it drops to about 45 during the winter (for the heater) and right now we're down around 43 during the hot part of the summer (100 degree + days make that AC work!).

I love how quiet the car is and it is still quite roomy inside. I think there is more space in the Prius than there was in my Saturn L200. DH and I tried out the Honda Civic Hybrid during our decision making time, and we just preferred the Prius based on the way it drove, style, and hybrid system, so we went on the wait list. Since they stepped up production, though, I don't think most places have a wait list anymore.

I really like the keyless entry system where I never have to take my keys out of my purse. We find that we still fill up about as often as before since the tank is only about 10 gallons, but when we do fill up, it is nice that it is so much cheaper than it was previously.

So, there is a review from a Prius owner. I highly recommend my car to others and I think it is definitely worth the investment. On top of that, Toyota plans to convert their entire line of cars over to hybrid technology in the next few years, so keep an eye out for the changes.

Thanks Angel. Your review is very similar to those I've read on Priuschat.com (http://www.priuschat.com/forums/).:) I love the idea of the Smart Keyless system because I've locked my keys in the car with the motor running twice in my life... in this damn car I am driving! :)

[alical04]

We are looking into the hybrids for my next car also. I really like the Honda Accord hybrid because it is a larger car but with the excellent gas consumption. Most of the hybrids are smaller but I think that will change over the next couple of years. We are still a couple of years away from getting a new car so things will change during that time so I dont know about some of the problems with specific cars or the repair work that goes along with them but those are issues that you can research and speak with the delarship about. But I like the idea of a hybrid car and plus you get a return for owning one on your taxes!! :D

[bookworm]

One thing to keep in mind when buying a hybrid is the availability. I really wanted to buy a Prius a couple of months ago, but I needed a new car immediately (my 9-year-old Tercel was totaled when a tree fell on it), and the wait for a Prius was several months.

So, I bought a Corolla, and try to take public transport or walk to do my part for cutting down on dependence on oil :).

[Annette]

We have a Prius and love it! I echo what Angelpalgt said. The hybrid drive train has a 100K mile warranty on it. We waited 7 months for the car. Anyone know how long the waitlist is now?

[hockeybrat]

We have a Prius and love it! I echo what Angelpalgt said. The hybrid drive train has a 100K mile warranty on it. We waited 7 months for the car. Anyone know how long the waitlist is now?

I know the cut off for 2005 is coming up and the 2006 is scheduled to come off assembly around November.

[ejs]

We've actually been told by car dealers not to get a hybrid if we think it's going to save us money. It takes an average of 8 years to make up for the higher cost of a hybrid. If you're getting one for environmental reasons, great.

[hockeybrat]

We've actually been told by car dealers not to get a hybrid if we think it's going to save us money. It takes an average of 8 years to make up for the higher cost of a hybrid. If you're getting one for environmental reasons, great.

If you're comparing the cost of a hybrid model vs. a standard model purely on gas consumption, then yes, it will take x years to recoup the cost. For me, it won't be only gas consumption but it is also cleaner air (Partial Zero emissions), knowing that I am being less dependent on foreign oil, and the cool technology that is offered in a Prius. :cool:

[Rancid13]

We've actually been told by car dealers not to get a hybrid if we think it's going to save us money. It takes an average of 8 years to make up for the higher cost of a hybrid. If you're getting one for environmental reasons, great.

I think it also depends on how much driving you do. If you have a long commute, one might be driving an average of anywhere from 50-90 miles in one day (my former commute was 70 miles roundtrip, 5 days a week); those miles add up after awhile. Or if you work a job that requires you to be out on the road a lot, like my boss (an appraiser) and soon to be myself, and you drive far more miles than the average American, then I can see savings of gas consumption alone add up a lot quicker than 8 years.

[villanelle75]

Of course, I drive my cars for at least 8 years, so even if it was from money purposes (which it's not), I probably would come out ahead. Sometimes I forget how cheap I am compared to regular people!

*runs off to drive home in her 94 Civic*

[Rancid13]

Of course, I drive my cars for at least 8 years, so even if it was from money purposes (which it's not), I probably would come out ahead. Sometimes I forget how cheap I am compared to regular people!

*runs off to drive home in her 94 Civic*

LOL, I hear you! I have a '96 Saturn that I've had since, well, '96. :) I love my car and the only reason I would get rid of it will be to upgrade from a 2-door to a 4-door car (which is why I'm liking the Honda Civic Hybrids) in the next few years.

[hockeybrat]

Just a side note on Civics, they are doing a body change for 2006. Not sure if the hybrids are going to look anything like this or not.

http://automobiles.honda.com/civics/email.aspx

[SweetRed]

DH owns a 2001 Prius. Best Friend owns a 2003(?) Civic. Boss owns a 2005 Escape. I must know a lot of tree huggers :)

Everyone is very happy with their hybrids. Even DH's 2001 model, the one people have mentioned had reliability issues, has been issue-free and we now think of bad gas mileage as anything under 50 MPG. I'm used to driving cars with V6 engines, so I was pleasantly surprised to see good pick-up on DH's car the first time I drove it.

My boss really does get 35 MPG with his Escape, dead-on with Ford's claim. Not bad for an SUV if you ask me.

[ejs]

"I think it also depends on how much driving you do. If you have a long commute, one might be driving an average of anywhere from 50-90 miles in one day (my former commute was 70 miles roundtrip, 5 days a week); those miles add up after awhile. Or if you work a job that requires you to be out on the road a lot, like my boss (an appraiser) and soon to be myself, and you drive far more miles than the average American, then I can see savings of gas consumption alone add up a lot quicker than 8 years."


I think this is a silly argument. It could easily be flipped around to say if someone buys a hybrid but doesn't drive it everyday, it will take much longer than 8 years.

I'm not against hybrids. I just know that not all salespeople are really up front with their customers about the costs. As I said, if you're buying one for environmental reasons, that's great. But if you're buying one because you think you're going to save a lot of money, you should do some additional research.

[Annette]

The other reasons we got the Prius were that it was a hatchback and had lots of features a luxury car would have without the price tag. We have the smart entry/start, navigation system (this is an awesome feature) and bluetooth. DH can make calls on his cell without fumbling for the phone at all. It mutes the radio when making/receiving calls. There is a lot of storage space too, more than I could ever fit in my Civic.

[laurenc]

i would really like to buy a hybrid when i buy a car next summer. i don't care if i don't really end up saving money -- i like the idea of reducing my impact on the planet. the only thing is that i would want to buy a station wagon or something larger than a sportscar so that we have plenty of room for a family.

we currently have a 5-year-old 2-door honda civic. but next year i will likely be working outside the city, where i will not have such easy access to public transit, so we'll finally bite the bullet and get a second car.

[Rancid13]

"I think it also depends on how much driving you do. If you have a long commute, one might be driving an average of anywhere from 50-90 miles in one day (my former commute was 70 miles roundtrip, 5 days a week); those miles add up after awhile. Or if you work a job that requires you to be out on the road a lot, like my boss (an appraiser) and soon to be myself, and you drive far more miles than the average American, then I can see savings of gas consumption alone add up a lot quicker than 8 years."


I think this is a silly argument. It could easily be flipped around to say if someone buys a hybrid but doesn't drive it everyday, it will take much longer than 8 years.

I'm not against hybrids. I just know that not all salespeople are really up front with their customers about the costs. As I said, if you're buying one for environmental reasons, that's great. But if you're buying one because you think you're going to save a lot of money, you should do some additional research.

I didn't realize this had become an argument and I don't think it's silly. I was simply making a statement that I believe to be true. And hybrids (at least the Prius and the Civic) seem to be pretty well-priced as far as upfront costs go: both starting between $19-21K, certainly not what I'd call expensive or overpriced. Even if you add on all the extras you're still under $30K for a good, reliable car that gets excellent gas mileage, you'll save a considerable amount of money on gas if you're a person that spends a lot of time on the road in your car. :rolleyes:

[ejs]

I really hope this doesn't turn into a discussion on semantics. I was not disagreeing with what you said. I was just saying that your point could be used the reverse way so that a hybrid would take longer than 8 years to be worth the expense.

I think it's great if you can get a Prius or Civic at cost. Where I live, they go for a lot over sticker.

[Delaney21]

I just heard on the radio that hybrid car manufacturers are currently "under fire" because hybrid cars don't get the miles per gallon that they claim. They said that a recent study was done and they found that it was only accurate if you stayed off the highway.

[Rancid13]

Hubby has the Honda Accord non-hybrid model with navigation.

It's the V-6 model from 2004...we both really love the car: it's roomy, handles very well, has a great pick up (great for merging on the freeway or passing on two lane highways). Personally I don't feel comfortable driving it simply because I'm used to driving a smaller car and probably always will, but the Accord makes you feel very safe while you're in it. Airbags everywhere! Leather everything. Hubby loves the heated seat option and the moonroof/sunroof combo. We've taken it on numerous trips to the mountains with all our snowboard gear and you can fit quite a bit of stuff inside! And the navigation really helps us not get lost on our way to places-more so him than me, he's always lost! :) I give it a big thumbs up.

[Ribbit]

I've also been seriously considering getting a hybrid, but my Saturn gets pretty good mileage already, and I'm wondering how soon hydrogen cell cars will be available to the general public. Does anyone know much about them? The idea of not having to stop for gas at all is VERY appealing...especially with gas prices around her at $3 a gallon!

[lawyergirl25]

Congrats, Bellefior! Can't wait to hear about your experiences with your new car.

Ribbit, I don't know when fuel cell vehicles (FCV) will be available. The DOE (http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/afv/hydr_vehicles.html) says:
There are currently no commercially available hydrogen vehicles. However, various tests are being run by the U.S. Department of Energy's Advanced Vehicle Testing Activity to gauge the feasibility of using hydrogen in internal combustion engines.
Doesn't sound too promising. :(

[lawyergirl25]

15! :eek: And I get mad when DH's Grand Prix dips down around 22-23!

[Rancid13]

Bellefior - I have a Saturn too. What kind do you drive?

I've a 1996 SC2 with almost 175K miles on it and average about 25 mpg. I've already decided my next car (come December or January) will be a Prius. I've been obsessing over them for a few weeks now, especially after the bill passed that will allow them into carpool lanes with solo drivers in CA. And I need to upgrade to a 4-door vehicle anyhow, since next year we'll start ttc-ing. And it will help with my job-being an appraiser and driving pretty much all day long...plus, I've had my car for almost 9 years now, and have been getting pestered by family to 'get a new/newer car already' so I've decided that it's about time.

[Annette]

Rancid - You will love the Prius! When our friends visited, we were able to fit the car seat in the middle and not have to move up the front seats. 2 adults plus the carseat in the rear was fine. You may want to get yourself on the waiting list if there is one.

[Asha]

Bumping this thread...

we are in the market for a new car, and we are considering a hybrid car. does anyone have any specifics on the tax credit? also, how long is the waiting list for a prius? i was reading an automotive magazine and that one seems to be the best though pricier than the civic. also, if anyone else has personal experience with a hybrid car, do share.

[ktdelsur]

I don't own a Hybrid (yet) and unfortunately our next car will be a work truck for DH. BUT...

...a very close friend of mine has a Honda Civic Hybrid and loves it. The trunk space is a little less than that of a regular Civic though because of all the battery stuff stored back there in the Hybrid. Nonetheless she hasn't had major problems and says nothing but good things about it.

...I thought I heard that the tax credit was an across-the-board $2000 for buying a Hybrid. Am I wrong?

...I drive an old Accord (94) now and love it. My next car will probably be another newer Accord - we're having a baby in a few weeks and I realized just how small my backseat really is with a baby seat in there. :eek:

[Asha]

ktdelsur, thanks for the info!

oh, a $2k credit is good. does anyone know if there are any limitations like you can't get the tax credit if you make over a certain amount of money like some of the student loan tax credits?

i talked with dh last night about it, and we figured since we were going to spend a similar amount of money for honda crv we might as well just get a hybrid. we were thinking we might need a bigger card for any potential children, but then again that's why we bought this big ole house, and we realize it was silly to buy such a big house when children are not yet in the picture and who knows when and if they will be.

[kam]

Hybrid tax breaks change from 2005 to 2006. 2005, I believe it's straight $2k tax break. In 2006, it gets more tricky. We placed our order for the Mercury Mariner, but it probably won't be delivered until 2006. I'm told that this is actually good from a tax standpoint but not sure why.

We got the hybrid because we thought we might as well do what we can for ourselves and the environment while driving our car. We use one car as our primary mode of transportation so a smaller car wouldn't do. We already drive less than most people, but you do what you can. Hope you enjoy your Honda, Bellefior!

[Asha]

hmmm...if the tax break thing ends in 2005 then we should get off our butts now. kam - i understand why you are getting the 2005 tax break bc you purchased/ordered your vehicle in 2005.

[kam]

hmmm...if the tax break thing ends in 2005 then we should get off our butts now. kam - i understand why you are getting the 2005 tax break bc you purchased/ordered your vehicle in 2005.

Actually, the purchase will be in 2006 even though we ordered it in 2005. Apparently the 2006 tax break will be better for us, albeit more complex than the straight $2k deduction.

[Asha]

so, we are slow movers. we have finally decided its time to get another car, living off one car has become way too stressful especially since dh has a much longer commute.

what are the advantages of a toyota prius besides being a hybrid? my dh thinks its not worth it bc we are also considering another corolla which is also fuel efficient. how much can i expect to pay for a prius? consumer reports says something like $21,000, but that seems low bc one toyota dealer quoted us something like $27k!!!! does anyone know if it is more money to insure a prius?

[juliemag]

so, we are slow movers. we have finally decided its time to get another car, living off one car has become way too stressful especially since dh has a much longer commute.

what are the advantages of a toyota prius besides being a hybrid? my dh thinks its not worth it bc we are also considering another corolla which is also fuel efficient. how much can i expect to pay for a prius? consumer reports says something like $21,000, but that seems low bc one toyota dealer quoted us something like $27k!!!! does anyone know if it is more money to insure a prius?

My mom owns a prius and loves that little thing. The starting at price is about $20k. But if you get it with navigation and all the works, yes - your price will be around $27k. It's still a hybrid either way you choose though. She gets about 50-60 mpg. The corolla will give you 41 mpg highway. Also - I asked her about the car insurance question, and she seems to think it's the same to pay for a prius than any other (normal) car. Also, dont know if you considered the Camry Hybrid - but it just came out in May. :)

[Asha]

thanks, juliemag! we actually do most of our driving in city traffic, and the corolla only gets 20 mpg for that, but you're right that corolla's are pretty fuel efficient on the highway. it seems like the prius is rated the best for fuel efficiency, so i don't think we would go for the camry.

i just looked up the invoice price for a 2006 prius. it is $20,586. it said you should start negotiating at $20,151.

[juliemag]

Well then the prius sounds like it'd be best for you! They actually do better in city driving b/c of they use the energy from braking to recharge the battery. Also, My mom told me this year they have increased the tax refund on prius to $3000, if I recall correctly. Now's a good time to buy one, for sure. :)

[Asha]

oh, if its a $3,000 tax deduction that almost seals the deal for us. a prius is approximately $7,000 more than a corolla, but after 5 years you save $4,000 in gas. also, the prius comes with some features that aren't standard in the corolla le and definitely a lot more than the corolla ce.

[Annette]

The Prius is also a hatchback so there's a lot more storage than a Corolla. We can fit so much stuff in our Prius its incredible. So if your looking for a car with more storage, get the Prius, you will not regret it. If you make a lot of phone calls in the car, the bluetooth is worth it too. Smart start is great also, since you can open the doors and drive with the keys in your pocket.

go to www.priuschat.com if you want more info on the car from other users.

[Dally]

Edited. Sorry, I was just starting to look at this thread when my DD started messing with they keyboard and posted a nonsensical response.

[flygirl]

I've been vacillating between the Prius and Civic Hybrid and I've finally decided on the latter. It's a much better ride, smoother and more responsive, and the 2006 model is a very cute car (not to mention a little larger with plenty of storage space). The best part: it's cheaper :D. It doesn't get quite the gas mileage as the Prius but it's the only other hybrid that surpasses the 40mpg mark. I'm on a two-week countdown now (after talking about it since December :rolleyes: ).

[Asha]

thanks for the link!

i have talked with three dealers and two of them have nothing in stock. the other one said she could order it but is selling the base model for $23k. that's too much for me. i told her that, but she said since they are hard to come by she can't do any better.

flygirl - off to check out the civic hybrid. it may be cheaper, but the prius gives the highest tax credit.

eta - flygirl - how much are the civic hybrids? i like that the side/curtain airbags are standard.

[Rancid13]

so, we are slow movers. we have finally decided its time to get another car, living off one car has become way too stressful especially since dh has a much longer commute.

what are the advantages of a toyota prius besides being a hybrid? my dh thinks its not worth it bc we are also considering another corolla which is also fuel efficient. how much can i expect to pay for a prius? consumer reports says something like $21,000, but that seems low bc one toyota dealer quoted us something like $27k!!!! does anyone know if it is more money to insure a prius?

Now that I have my hybrid as of February (see avatar) I can actually be of some help in this thread.

One advantage the Prius has over the Corolla (which is also a fantastic car, btw, especially if reliability AND price is a big deal killer for you) is that it's a mid-sized car rather than a compact, and you have a lot more versatile cargo space inside. It's a lot roomier than the Corolla, the inside is sized more like the Camry.

You can expect to pay (without dealer markups) MSRP or just below for the Prius. My insurance (monthly) is currently $80 for a married female with ~10 years driving experience and no accidents/tickets. It's about $5 more than I paid monthly for my old clunky Saturn.

I got a fully loaded Prius, so I paid a bit more than the base price, but I also paid 'only' MSRP which was a pretty good 'deal' on the Prius earlier this year (I heard rumors that a lot of dealers currently have Priuses sitting on the lot and are thus more willing to cut a deal for buyers).

Try finding another car out there that you can pay less than $30K for and get such awesome options as leather seating, voice-activated navigation, Bluetooth, a reverse camera, 6-disc cd changer w/mp3/ipod playback capability and a smart key system. AND get 48 miles per gallon to boot (my average, although lately I've been getting between 49-51. http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/car/2107.html

It's nice being able to fill up the tank to the tune of 9-9.5 gallons (usually below $30 per tank) and know that I'll get a minimum of 450 miles on that tank.

Here's a good website to check out if you're interested in the Prius:
http://priuschat.com/forums.html

There are a lot of very helpful, very knowledgeable folks on there that will not hesitate to answer any and all question one might have with regards to the Prius, or basically to any hybrid in general.

Here's a thread where the OP asked the question "Why not get a Corolla?" and got a slew of replies that really makes you think and weigh the options:
http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=15382&hl=corolla

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v432/rancid13/pri5.jpg
I can never resist showing off my gleaming black beauty.... :D

[yby1]

If you want a car just for fuel effciency (and to save $$$), get the Corolla. You'll save more in the long run.

If you want to support alternative fuel vehicles, and want a "hip" car with extra gizmos, then the Prius is a better choice.

[Asha]

(I heard rumors that a lot of dealers currently have Priuses sitting on the lot and are thus more willing to cut a deal for buyers).


they are saying it will take 12 weeks!!! we can't wait that long as we will really need a second vehicle by the end of August.

If you want a car just for fuel effciency (and to save $$$), get the Corolla. You'll save more in the long run.
this is my dh's thinking.

If you want to support alternative fuel vehicles, and want a "hip" car with extra gizmos, then the Prius is a better choice
this is my thinking. plus, our current car is a corolla. i want to get something different. my dh wants to wait until we move out of nyc to get a nicer car like a prius bc cars get a real beating here.

btw, rancid your car IS a beauty!

[meggers]

I'm not seriously looking into a new car yet, but I have my eye on a Prius (hopefully we can afford it). I was wondering if it would make a nice family car (room in the back seat for car seats & good cargo space). I'd like to show that you don't need to buy a gas guzzling SUV once you have kids.

[Asha]

meggers - like you i don't understand why a family needs an suv over a sedan. most suv's don't seat anymore people than a sedan. i do understand the need for minivans bc they offer more seating that is needed for larger families, but suv's i just don't get unless you live in a really snowy place.

[flygirl]

flygirl - off to check out the civic hybrid. it may be cheaper, but the prius gives the highest tax credit.

eta - flygirl - how much are the civic hybrids? i like that the side/curtain airbags are standard.
$22,150 base, $23,650 w/ nav. Almost everything comes standard.

The full tax credit is only available for up to one quarter after the manufacturer has sold 60k total hybrids. Toyata surpassed that in May 2006, so the full credit (assuming you qualify; income affects eligability) is available through Sep '06. The Honda Civic credit is only $1150 less than the Prius, much less than the difference in price and should be available throughout the year.

[Rancid13]

they are saying it will take 12 weeks!!! we can't wait that long as we will really need a second vehicle by the end of August.


this is my dh's thinking.


this is my thinking. plus, our current car is a corolla. i want to get something different. my dh wants to wait until we move out of nyc to get a nicer car like a prius bc cars get a real beating here.

btw, rancid your car IS a beauty!

Thanks!

You should call around to different area dealers to see if they can do better than a 12-week wait time. I've been reading a lot of posts on Priuschat where people have basically driven to a dealer, seen a Prius on the lot that was unspoken for, and driven off in it a couple hours later. You might compromise your #1 color and package combo in order to get one quickly. I waited a few months (5.5 to be exact) for my #1 choice.

[Asha]

$22,150 base, $23,650 w/ nav. Almost everything comes standard.

that's more expensive than i recent quote i just got. i just got a quote for $21,691 for a basic prius. a lot of things come standard with the basic prius too. flygirl - grrrr...if income affect eligibility, we probably wouldn't qualify for it. i'll try to post the site one of my journal buddies posted about it, and it didn't mention anything about income.

rancid - yeah, i talked to some other dealers, and they aren't telling me as long - 4-6 weeks. we are not picky about color since we know they are hard to come by. some dealers have them in stock but they only have the higher end trim lines available.

[KarenS]

I've a 1996 SC2 with almost 175K miles on it and average about 25 mpg. I've already decided my next car (come December or January) will be a Prius.Hello, me. My 1996 SC2 currently has 156k miles on it and I am hoping to baby it through the end of the year. If everything works out right, I'm planning to get a Prius (possibly a new one, but maybe a pre-owned one if we can find one) early in 2007.

Karen

[Asha]

karen - i highly reccomend you pre order it sooner than you need it given all my problems with finding them in stock.

[KarenS]

karen - i highly reccomend you pre order it sooner than you need it given all my problems with finding them in stock.Stock doesn't seem to be an issue in Atlanta, for new or used.

karen

[Rancid13]

Hello, me. My 1996 SC2 currently has 156k miles on it and I am hoping to baby it through the end of the year. If everything works out right, I'm planning to get a Prius (possibly a new one, but maybe a pre-owned one if we can find one) early in 2007.

Karen

Good choice. My SC2 ended up with just over 180K miles on it when I sold it~got $1800 for it on Ebay to a local buyer. Buying the Prius was probably the best choice I've ever made. I was also considering (originally) an Accord, Camry or Mazda6 because we were planning on starting our family soon and I needed a sedan.

[KarenS]

My SC2 ended up with just over 180K miles on it when I sold it~got $1800 for it on Ebay to a local buyer.Oh that's good to know. I'll probably put a couple hundred $$ into it to get a few things fixed and try to sell it locally as well. It'd make a great high school car for a kid who wasn't going to drive it long distances or make huge road trips in it.

Kare

[flygirl]

Tax info from hybridcars.com (http://www.hybridcars.com/tax-deductions-credits.html[/url). It's more complicated than just your tax bracket. This credit comes after all the other credits, so it's easier to fall outside of it.

[Asha]

thanks flygirl. i will have to call my acc't to see if we fall in the amt. i have no clue about that. the only credit we currently take is the mortgage, so we should be able to still qualify for the credit considering we pay an abusurd amount in taxes.

we did some calculations and found that the over 5 years the prius is $2k more than the corolla. we decided its worth it to pay that much more bc it is a higher quality vehicle than the corolla and it is better for the environment. plus, my dh spends a lot of time in the car, and the prius seems to be more comfortable. tomorrow i am headed to the dealership that quoted me $21,691. i am skeptical about that quote since it is a couple thousand lower than all the other quotes i got. i have had bad experiences in the past with dealers quoting me low prices, and then doing the whole bait and switch move. if that's the case, then i will just walk out of that dealer. we will then have to expand our search to other states.

[Annette]

I'm not seriously looking into a new car yet, but I have my eye on a Prius (hopefully we can afford it). I was wondering if it would make a nice family car (room in the back seat for car seats & good cargo space). I'd like to show that you don't need to buy a gas guzzling SUV once you have kids.

When our friends visited with their infant, we were able to fit the car-seat (rear-facing) plus two adults in the back comfortably. The front seats were able to stay all the way back too.

Another cool thing, we are able to put 4 kayaks on the roof and still get above 40mpg.

[Asha]

yeah, from what i have been reading in the prius mesasge board that rancid posted the prius is pretty roomy inside, and it can hold more stuff in the back bc it is a hatchback.

just an update - i have been checking out the available stock in maryland and virginia and some dealers seem to have even the base trim lines in stock. also, they are selling them for msrp, whereas, almost all the dealers from around here are selling them higher than msrp. i just talked to a salesperson in ny, and she said that ny, nj, and conn falls in the same region, so if i want to get something faster, i should look outside those states.

[Pinz824]

Just bumping up to see if anyone has more recent experiences.

[PeanutButter]

I am curious, too.

We currently have one car - a 2000 Subaru with about 120,000 miles on it. My DH commutes 120 miles a day for work while I walk or take public transportation. We'd like to get a second car. We have two options:

1. Get a traditional vehicle, and not use it much during the week. I'll use it to run the occasional errand, or if I have to work very late. DH will continue to drive the Subaru until it dies, with the new car as a back-up in case he has problems.

2. Get a hybrid, and have DH drive that, while I keep the Subaru for emergency/occasional driving.

A good friend of ours has the Honda Accord hybrid, and is not thrilled. She says that she has to get oil changes ($55 each) done at the dealer, and she's already had some maintenance issues, including problems with her steering column. She thinks that *cost-wise* (NOT looking at environmental impact), a fuel-efficient gas car is more economical.

Any thoughts?

[jesvet]

I am curious, too.
A good friend of ours has the Honda Accord hybrid, and is not thrilled. She says that she has to get oil changes ($55 each) done at the dealer, and she's already had some maintenance issues, including problems with her steering column. She thinks that *cost-wise* (NOT looking at environmental impact), a fuel-efficient gas car is more economical.

Any thoughts?

Can't speak for any experience but mine, but we have a Lexus RX hybrid. I love it, but it's not saving us any money. The mileage savings is about 4 mpg, but we paid an extra $7k for the car to begin with. It will be a wash over time. I imagine the lighter sedans have more significant fuel economy, and we also bought ours before the hefty tax credit kicked in.

We were concerned about maintenance as this was a new model that year but 2 years later, no problems (it's the same engine as the Highlander, which has had reliable reviews.)

It's a good balance for me. With two kids and two big dogs and all the extra crap that goes along with them, I really couldn't manage a sedan, but I feel a wee bit better than I would with a big SUV.

[DianeCourt]

The good news is that, if you're interested in buying a hybrid these days, you have more options available, especially from the domestic auto companies. GM offers the following hybrid models:

2006 Chevrolet Silverado Classic and 2006 GMC Sierra Classic (Full Size Trucks)
2007 Saturn Vue Green Line (Small SUV)
2008 Chevrolet Tahoe and 2008 GMC Yukon (Full Size SUVs)
2007 Saturn Aura Green Line (Midsize Cars)

[Annette]

I have heard that Toyota is offering really good incentives on the Prius now.
If you don't want a hybrid, you can always get a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla which offer great gas mileage, but are a lot less money than a hybrid.

[villanelle75]

If you want a great commuter car for your DH with super low milage, I can not say enough good things about my (toyota) Echo. It gets well-over 30 MPG. It is a small car, but the trunk is surprisingly roomy. And they are cheap. It isn't made anymore (I think it was ditched for the Yaris) but you can get them used with low mildage for $5000-$8000. Mine had about 35k miles on it, IIRC, and is a 2000. I bought it about a year and I half ago for $7000.

I couldn't afford a Hybrid but wanted something environmentally responsible and cheaper to operate. This car not only gave me those two things, it was also ridiculously cheap to purchase. I have had zero problems and I could not be happier.

[PeanutButter]

If you want a great commuter car for your DH with super low milage, I can not say enough good things about my (toyota) Echo. It gets well-over 30 MPG. It is a small car, but the trunk is surprisingly roomy. And they are cheap. It isn't made anymore (I think it was ditched for the Yaris) but you can get them used with low mildage for $5000-$8000.

Thanks, villanelle. We'll check it out.

I wonder if it's as small as the Yaris? Our friend has one of those and my DH tried to drive it (he's 6'2" and very broad shouldered) and his knees were jammed up to the dashboard and his hair was touching the ceiling! It was actually really funny.

[meggers]

Thanks, villanelle. We'll check it out.

I wonder if it's as small as the Yaris? Our friend has one of those and my DH tried to drive it (he's 6'2" and very broad shouldered) and his knees were jammed up to the dashboard and his hair was touching the ceiling! It was actually really funny.

Maybe also check out the Honda Fit. I've heard it's surprisingly roomy for a small car and gets over 30 mpg.

[Amuse Bouche]

I believe the Honda Accord Hybrid was manufactured more for performance than for fuel economy, as well, so it might be worthwhile to look into some of the other Hybrid sedans -- Toyota Camry, Honda Civic both are manufactured in hybrid.

[DianeCourt]

Maybe also check out the Honda Fit. I've heard it's surprisingly roomy for a small car and gets over 30 mpg.

You might also look into the Chevrolet Aveo. Pricing starts at just over $10,000 brand new, they have 5 star frontal crash ratings, and get 37 mpg highway.

[whitlockan]

I guess I could chime in....I'm a prius owner

2005 prius bought it brand new for 28k (I have the model w/nav and keyless entry/start guess you could say the "loaded" one) you can certainly get a base model cheaper.

A few FYI's on it......

Mileage: Summer: 55 per gallon; winter: 43-44 per gallon (those numbers are highway mileage on main interstate traveling average 70 mph with about 12 miles worth of DC city driving)

Tax credit: this is where they get you; our first year we got a 2K credit back, your initial tax credit is based on the amount of cars produced and sold, so since we bought ours when they were first introduced we got the highest you can get back, now that initial credit is next to nothing (as what was explained to us by the tax preparer). Secondly once you claim the initial credit you get NOTHING the rest of the time its a one time deduction.

HOV lanes: I know in the state of VA all toyota prius's are legal with only 1 passengar in the HOV lane, its the only hybrid right now that they allow (at least last I checked).

Overall its a great car, well worth the price I travel 60 miles roundtrip each day and only takes a tank of gas a week, not bad! One thing to remember and this has always been the case, Toyotas are always higher in price than Hondas. Also the Camery is very over priced (mid 30's for general model not sure how much more the hybrid is) always has been and always will be due to demand and popularity.

[PeanutButter]

You might also look into the Chevrolet Aveo. Pricing starts at just over $10,000 brand new, they have 5 star frontal crash ratings, and get 37 mpg highway.

Personally, I am not as worried about the cost. Don't get me wrong - we're not shopping for a Lexus - but we're not necessarily looking for an entry-level car. In fact, we want to make sure it's big enough for a car seat for the not-too-distant future.

My question is more about whether it would be more cost-efficient to get a hybrid (we'd probably look at the Camry, Accord, maybe the Ford Escape) or to continue driving the high-mileage car for DH's long commute until it dies...

In part, it's a more general car question: do you keep driving the old car until it's at the end of its life, or pre-emptively replace it...

Of course, if he keeps driving the high mileage car, I get to use the *new* car! :D

Thanks for all the help! It's really interesting to hear everyone's thoughts.

[1MegMeg]

<snip> Overall its a great car, well worth the price I travel 60 miles roundtrip each day and only takes a tank of gas a week, not bad! One thing to remember and this has always been the case, Toyotas are always higher in price than Hondas. Also the Camery is very over priced (mid 30's for general model not sure how much more the hybrid is) always has been and always will be due to demand and popularity.

MSRP for regular Camrys start at $18,945 and $26,875 for the hybrid. ;)

[SingleWhiteFemale]

HOV lanes: I know in the state of VA all toyota prius's are legal with only 1 passengar in the HOV lane, its the only hybrid right now that they allow (at least last I checked). It appears in VA to depend on when the car was registered:Beginning July 1, 2006, changes will be made to how clean special fuel plates are issued. The plates issued on July 1st and after will have a new design, the blue clean special fuel plate. Only vehicles registered by June 30th will be able to get the original design, the white clean special fuel plate.

If your qualifying vehicle is registered with the original design for clean special fuel license plates, you will be exempt from occupancy requirements in all (HOV) facilities in Virginia until July 1, 2007. In addition, you will be able to renew your registration or transfer your plates to another qualifying clean fuel vehicle, as long as ownership in the vehicle has not changed.

Vehicles registered with the newly designed blue plate will only be exempt from the occupancy requirements in the following HOV lanes until July 1, 2007: Interstate 66, the Dulles Toll Road and the Hampton Roads area. However, these vehicles WILL NOT be allowed to use the HOV lanes in the I-95/395 corridor unless they are being operated with the required number of occupants.In Maryland, there are no hybrid exemptions to use HOV lanes. On Route 50, they agressively pull over HOV violaters, much moreso than speeders.

[DianeCourt]

My question is more about whether it would be more cost-efficient to get a hybrid (we'd probably look at the Camry, Accord, maybe the Ford Escape) or to continue driving the high-mileage car for DH's long commute until it dies...

It will take years to achieve a payback on the purchase of a brand new hybrid when you consider fuel savings. I personally wouldn't buy one if cost efficiency was your biggest priority.

Editing to add that there's a new domestic choice if you're considering a midsize hybrid. The Saturn Aura Green Line is all new for 2007. MSRP starts at $22,965, making it the most affordable hybrid on the market this year. Buyers qualify for a tax credit of $1,300.

[DianeCourt]

Some additional food for thought on the Prius:

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage (http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188)

[FallingforPhil]

We test drove the Saturn VUE greenline (hybrid) last night. I was really impressed. We're looking to replace my Ford Escape with another small SUV. Budget is forcing us to downgrade from our current V6 to a 4cylinder, and we've just been really unhappy with the way the 4-cylinders drive.

The VUE was a different story, though--great pickup, a very smooth ride, etc. The price is really appealing, too! The model we drove had side-curtain airbags, along with a few misc. upgrades to the radio, etc. and was listed at $24K.

Anyone have any experience with the hybrid VUE?

Also, what's the chances for wiggle room in the price? I know Saturn claims to be "no haggle," but how does that change/not change with hybrids?

(BTW, I'd love to buy a smaller hybrid car, like a Prius, but I need to be able to fit tubas, bari saxes, etc. in my car....:rolleyes: )

[Annette]

(BTW, I'd love to buy a smaller hybrid car, like a Prius, but I need to be able to fit tubas, bari saxes, etc. in my car.... )


You'd be surprised at what can fit in a Prius especially if you fold the backseats down. We were able to fit an 8ft kayak in there.

[hmbay]

subscribing.... Anyone have any experience with the Highlander Hybrid? Just wondering if the low 30's mpg the dealer told us was realistic. We're in the market for a 3rd row suv or a minivan the end of the year when #3 comes along and are used to higher MPG vehicles (our last three vehicles were 30+ mpg Hondas).

[Guinness]

We have a highlander hybrid and love it. That being said low 30's is laughable!! The highest we have gotten on a tank is 27mpg and that would be really concentrating on it. It really is dependent on how you drive it. I do better than DH. He likes to accelerate (and it has great pick up), and drive more modestly and try to find the sweet spot to get high mileage. The combo of the 2 of us we regularly get 25-26. That is town/highway driving. Now that is lots better than many SUVs, but don't let the low 30s number get you. I say no way! We have the 3rd row option and it works for small children. Adults there is no way to sit back there comfortably. It would work to cram everyone in for a short drive to dinner, but not much further. Kids in car seats or boosters though are fine. I really do recommend it, but you have to be realistic about what you are driving. It isn't a large SUV and it won't save tons of money on gas. We bought it to be more 'green' and to give us more room than the Passat we traded in (which we absolutely loved too). The reality is the highlander and Passat get the same gas mileage, but we got a bigger car and don't have to use premium gas.

HTH

[hmbay]

Hmm mid 20's is a lot less than the 32 average the sales guy told us (and I had a feeling he was full of sh*t or I'd be seeing more of them on the road). It's still on our list but it's making the $15K cheaper minivan that gets 20/26 not look as bad after all.

[FallingforPhil]

Just wanted to come back and post that we bought the VUE hybrid this week, and so far, I'm really loving it. Gas mileage is right on track with what we expected (27 City).

The regenerative braking (I think that's the right term...) is also making me much, much, more aware of my driving habits. I'm so much more likely to coast to a stopsign instead of braking hard when I get close. DH says it's improved my tailgaiting problem as well. :o

PS--thanks for your help, DianeCourt--that was awesome!

[villanelle75]

We are in the market and the Vue is on our short list. FallingforPhil, are you still happy with the car? Any additional thoughts about it, good or bad?

[villanelle75]

And one more thing, I see that no one answered your question, but now that you've been through it, maybe you have some insight. Was the Saturn price really "no haggle" or were you able to negotiate at all?

[FallingforPhil]

Villanelle,

So far, we're very happy with our hybrid VUE. Gas mileage continues to be very good. For comparison, I previously had a Ford Escape (w/the same sized gas tank) and was generally getting 220 miles between fillups. Now, I routinely get 375-380, with all city driving.

I really like the "feel" of the VUE, if that makes sense. IMO, it drives like a car, and not a truck like my Escape.

Another plus is that the oil life of the car is much, much, much longer. According to OnStar, we still have 60% oil life, and we've had the car since May. I believe that's because the oil life is calculated based off of engine revolutions, and since the gas engine doesn't run anytime your foot is on the brake, the number is drastically reduced.

The biggest issue we've had so far is a problem with the hybrid battery wiring harness. A few weeks ago, our check engine light came on, and OnStar wasn't able to diagnose it. It contineud to go on and off, and then the battery light started doing the same thing. We assumed it had something to do with the hybrid system and it's reaction to the incredible humidity we've been having. But, the day after we took it in to the dealership to be checked out, we got a letter from Saturn saying that it was a "common problem" and asking us to bring the car in to have a new harness installed. They're not calling it a recall, but seems to me that's pretty much what it is.

Anyway, we've had no problems since then. You can check out the Edmunds site for other people (lots) who have had the problem. There's lots of differing opinions, but honestly, I'm not all that concerned. It's the first model year for the car, so deling with bugs is a risk we took, KWIM?

As far as haggling, Saturn stays true to their "no haggle" claim, at least IME. They were running a pretty decent cashback/financing offer when we bought, though.

HTH--PM me if you have any more questions!

[Rancid13]

It will take years to achieve a payback on the purchase of a brand new hybrid when you consider fuel savings. I personally wouldn't buy one if cost efficiency was your biggest priority.

Editing to add that there's a new domestic choice if you're considering a midsize hybrid. The Saturn Aura Green Line is all new for 2007. MSRP starts at $22,965, making it the most affordable hybrid on the market this year. Buyers qualify for a tax credit of $1,300.

It depends on the hybrid vehicle that you buy when you're figuring how long it will take you to recover the so-called 'hybrid premium'. Consumer Reports even had to revise a story they ran about that very topic.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cu-press-room/pressroom/archive/2006/04/eng0604ehv.htm

As for the Aura hybrid, it's not even a full hybrid like the Prius or Honda Civic Hybrid. MSRP for the Prius starts at $21,610 and the HCH at $22,600. I'm no mathematician, but both those #'s are lower than the starting price on the Aura.

This article states that the hybrid Aura is a whopping $100 less than the Prius (dunno how they got that #) but IMO you're getting a lot less function & utility for a mere $100 savings:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070320/AUTO01/703200368


The best hybrid buy out there right now if you want to buy American is the Escape Hybrid. Unfortunately there's no American car match for the Japanese hybrid sedans right now.

[Kingdono]

I didn't get a chance to read the whole thread so sorry if this is already in here but on the radio this morning I heard that Nissan is coming out with a Hybrid Altima.

[villanelle75]

We test drove the regular Vue this weekend. They are out of 07's and aren't expecting 08's for a couple months, and this seems to be the case at most dealers across the country. But we were disappointed in the drive. It drove like a truck, which I guess shouldn't have been a surprise, but the bumpy suspension wasn't for us. We also drove the Aura hybrid and really liked it. Like the Vue hybrid, all dealers are out or almost out of the 07s and wont' get 08's for a while, but this dealer had one left on the lot. Though we really liked it, one of our desires for a new vehicle was soemthign a bit larger than our current cars (an Echo and a Civic). While the Aura was larger, the trunk is tiny due to the batteries and when you fold down the back seats, the opening is minuscule so fitting much of anything just wouldn't happen. However, I though we might have purchased it anyway, but it was just too expensive. Even though we were looking at an 07, they were only offering about $1000 in incentives, and even that was just because we currently own a Toyota. I get they they are selling out so they don't need to offer much, but full price for an 07 when the 08s will be out in a few months is crazy.

FWIW, we ended up with a Hyundai Sonata. It gets decent gas milage (4 cylinder, not the V6) and with all the dealer incentives for the 07, we got it for $2800 under invoice!!!

[Rancid13]

Some additional food for thought on the Prius:

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage (http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188)

Not quite...
http://www.toyota.com/html/dyncon/2007/september/hummervprius.html

And for anyone still wondering just how much "stuff" you can cram into a Prius, here's my list from our 2,500 roadtrip to Oregon and back last month:

2 adults
1 baby in Britax car seat
Pliko P3 stroller, folded
Booster seat (travel)
Beco baby carrier
Diaper bag
Hard plastic camera case (large)
Soft sided camera case (medium)
2 insulated coolers
Electric breastpump
2 pillows
2 blankets
Boppy pillow
Portable dvd player (affixed to rear passenger seat; plugged into armrest console)
4 beach towels
1 water floatie for baby
1 large duffel bag
1 medium duffel bag
2 small duffel bags
Backpack with books, magazines, phone/camera chargers
1 briefcase (laptop & accessories carrier)
Medium sized tote bag filled with toys
Activity/play mat
Small bag filled with bottles, baby food, baby snacks, utensils, dishes
Purse
Filled the armrest console with snacks
And a partridge in a pear tree. Just kidding. I think I got everything.

Even with all this stuff in the car, we still had a seat in the back that was clear for sitting (great for when one of us sat back there to entertain DS on occasion) and nothing was stacked higher than the seatbacks so my rear view was still completely unobstructed. I wish now I'd gotten a picture of the car with all the stuff in and with all the stuff next to it on the ground.

Here are the numbers from the trip:
2664 total miles travelled
44.8 average miles per gallon (due to travelling 75-90mph for 90% of the trip)
42.6 lowest mpg segment (80-90mph on I-5)
48.4 highest mpg segment (Tualatin, OR to Rockaway Beach, OR avg 45-55mph)
172.40 amount spent on gas for the whole trip (I still had 1/2 a tank left when we got home)
19.19 average cost per fill-up
0.06 cost per mile to make the trip

On snowboarding trips we've been able to fit (pre-baby & with one of the rear seats folded down):

2 adults
3 snowboards w/bindings
3 pairs of snowboard boots
2 large duffel bags
2 pillows
1 medium duffel bag
Toiletries case
1 cooler with food/drinks
backpack

I have a 2006 Prius, fully loaded -my first new car ever after driving a 1996 Saturn for 9 years and 180K miles- purchased in Feb 06. I now have 25,000 miles on it and am averaging 47 mpg in mixed driving. I have the CA HOV stickers (which they have since stopped handing out) so I can drive solo in the carpool lane until I think 2010. I also got the full $3,150 tax credit, which was really nice. I've been getting 400-450 miles out of each tank of gas, and only have to put in 7-9 gallons per fill up ($22-28). Not bad!

[JATTNJ]

Didn't read this whole thread but just wanted to add that I bought the Lexus 400H (SUV hybrid) in May and love it. I'm averaging about 25 mpg (almost all city driving). I needed something larger for kids, etc. but felt guilty buying an SUV.
This vehicle also qualifies as a Super Low Emissions Vehicle according to CA standards (although I'm in NJ!)

Edited to add: it costs me $40-45 to fill up with premium and the hybrid system is under warranty for 10 years.

[Rosebud]

I finally got a hybrid! I've been shopping for quite a while and finally took the plunge about two weeks ago. I'm now the proud owner of a gorgeous Camry Hybrid. So far, I absolutely LOVE it. It drives wonderfully, has all the latest equipment and safety stuff, has tons of space, etc.

When I first had it, I was driving mostly on freeways and getting about 41.5 mpg. Now, I'm doing mostly stop-and-go city driving and am getting about 38.5 mpg. Anyone have any tricks for increasing their mileage? I need to work on not accelerating so much in between stop signs and on freeway ramps and such, I think.

The fun thing about being a hybrid owner is how much attention this car gets. People stop me in parking lots and yell across to me at stop lights asking how I like it and complimenting me on it. The first day I had it, I looked out my window to see several neighbors checking it out in my driveway. I've been driving a beater for so long that all this attention is totally new and different!

My Camry Hybrid at its first and (so far) only trip to the pump:
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k284/rosebud03_2006/Misc/IMG_0311.jpg

[Rancid13]

Rosebud~ Congratulations! Nice color too! I got to take a look at the Camry Hybrid a year ago, just before they were released to dealers. I like the design style of the Camrys this year, the look more like Lexuses than Toyotas IMO. I liked the interior too. The only thing I didn't like was the trunk space (or lack thereof) because of the battery "hump". But then again, I've gotten so used to the spacious hatch of my Prius. ;)

Here's a thread from Priuschat.com about improving mpgs (it's somewhat Prius specific, but I don't see why a lot of these tips couldn't be used for other hybrids):

http://priuschat.com/forums/fuel-economy/14701-new-owner-want-mpg-help-read-first.html

And here's a link to the Camry Hybrid Chat forum:

http://priuschat.com/forums/toyota-camry-hybrid/

Happy Motoring!!

[bug]

Just found this thread! I have an 07 Hybrid Camry--Rosebud- you're gonna love it! I am still getting questions about mine & people asking for rides and I've had it for 1.5 years!

I took mine in about a year ago for an annoying rattling in the dash, and now it's doing it again but a different sound. Hopefully you won't have that problem. :)

I get about the same mileage, and find that coasting and not accelerating hard helps with mileage as does cruise on the highway. We frequently get in the high 40's on highway trips, but only on the totally flat parts, going about the speed limit.

Overall, it's a wonderful car, it's a shame that the trunk space is limited by the battery, but it's worth it. :) Off to check out the links Rancid13 posted!

We are looking at possibly getting a Hybrid Saturn Vue in a few years.

[Yvangeline]

Can any hybrid owners tell me how their cars or SUVs (whether 4WD or not) handle in snow and ice? I live in MA and my current car (a standard transmission 2003 Mazda Protege 5) is a total nightmare in the snow. I would really like to buy a hybrid for my next car, but I also want to make sure that it doesn't strand me in roadside snowbanks the way my current car does! :)

Thanks!

[hockeybrat]

Can any hybrid owners tell me how their cars or SUVs (whether 4WD or not) handle in snow and ice? I live in MA and my current car (a standard transmission 2003 Mazda Protege 5) is a total nightmare in the snow. I would really like to buy a hybrid for my next car, but I also want to make sure that it doesn't strand me in roadside snowbanks the way my current car does! :)

Thanks!

I have a Prius and it has traction control. It isn't great but it seems to get by in snow and ice fine here in WA. It doesn't get as cold as where you live so your best bet is to go online to places like Priuschat.com or other related websites to get a better picture.
:)

[Rancid13]

Here are a few threads I found on Priuschat about how the Prius handles in ice/snow:

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/41439-prius-cold-climates.html

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/41849-prius-safe-drive-snow.html

http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-main-forum/40601-prius-snow-ii.html

It's a very helpful website and I'm sure you could post a thread asking about hybrids handling in ice/snow and will get many responses from various hybrid owners (Prius and otherwise).

[Guinness]

We have the Highlander Hybrid and it handles very well. We have some ice here, but not nearly as much as you probably get. DH is from NY and he always comments on how well it handles on slick roads and he has plenty of experience on them.

[FallingforPhil]

We have a VUE hybrid, and it handles really well in the snow and ice (Chicago burbs). It's my understanding--don't quote me on this, though--that the hybrid has upgraded tires in order to make the auto stop safer on hills, etc. I also like the decel that happens when you take your foot off the gas. I don't have to tap the brakes as often, so I feel much safer when I'm driving in icy conditions.

[Rosebud]

bump

[L&D Nurse]

Does anyone have a Ford Escape Hybrid?