NCAA bans Native American mascots

[littlemia]

"On Friday, the NCAA adopted a new policy prohibiting its schools from displaying "hostile and abusive racial/ethnic/national-origin mascots, nicknames or imagery" at any of its 88 championship games.

Beginning in February 2006, any school whose logo or nickname is deemed "hostile or abusive" will be banned from using them in postseason events; then, starting in August 2008, the policy will extend to cheerleaders, dance teams, and bandmembers. Students whose uniforms sport such references will be barred from wearing them at tournament games. Effective immediately, student athletes wearing uniforms with those references must ensure that the references are concealed at competitions.

Eighteen colleges and universities were targeted — all of which had nicknames bearing Native American connotations — including the University of North Dakota (Fighting Sioux), Mississippi College (Choctaws), Southeastern Oklahoma State University (Savages) and Carthage College (Redmen). Several schools with teams nicknamed Indians or Braves were also singled out."

While I think banning "hostile and abusive" names is right, I don't think all of the targeted teams had offensive names. In particular, the Seminole tribe of Florida supports FSU's use of the Seminole nickname and mascot. I believe some of the other teams that use Indian tribes names as mascot also have permission.


Below is an article by Mike Bianchi of the Orlando Sentinel. While a lot of the article is tongue-in-cheek, I think he makes a good point.

Now that the NCAA is in the business of legislating against "hostile and abusive" nicknames, let them not stop with American Indians.

Let all of us have our say before the NCAA Can of Worms Committee.

And so . . .


I am an animal lover and am offended by South Carolina's nickname of Gamecocks -- an obvious endorsement of the grotesque sport of cockfighting. For the NCAA to give its tacit approval to an activity in which proud and beautiful birds are bred for the purpose of mutilating and killing each other for human entertainment is appalling.


I am an advocate of gun control and I want the NCAA to explain why it allows Gettysburg College to use the nickname "Bullets." With nearly 30,000 gun-related deaths in America every year, isn't this the most "hostile and abusive" nickname of all?


I am a victim of Hurricane Charley and demand that the NCAA forbid Miami from ever again using its "Hurricanes" nickname. To extol the virtues of natural disasters that have caused devastation and death and cost our state billions of dollars is inexcusable.


I am an African-American and I am outraged by Ole Miss' nickname of Rebels, which is a clear glorification of the South's fight to preserve state rights and slavery in the Civil War.


I am a Christian woman and I am insulted by the plethora of satanic nicknames such as the Duke Blue Devils and Northwestern State Demons. For the NCAA to endorse the work of The Dark Prince himself -- the enemy of God and all of mankind -- is an assault on America as a Christian nation.


I am a Muslim man and I am offended by Holy Cross's nickname -- the Crusaders. Thousands of my ancestors died during the Crusades, including thousands of captives slaughtered in cold blood by Richard the Lionhearted in 1191.


I am a devout Hindu and am starting a petition to ban the nickname of the South Florida Bulls. The cow is a sacred animal in my religion and to caricature it as some sort of loony, ridiculous mascot is an insult to the 1.1 billion Hindus worldwide.


I am a peaceable pacifist from Dublin and I am disgusted by Notre Dame's stereotypical portrayal of the "Fighting" Irish as a bunch of rowdy, drunken barroom brawlers.


I am a snakebite victim and cannot believe the NCAA allows Florida A&M and Florida Southern to use two deadly snakes -- Rattlers and Moccasins -- as their nicknames. Poisonous snakes bite more than 8,000 Americans each year, and rattlers and moccasins are among the most dangerous.


I am of Roman descent and I am offended by Southern Cal's mascot, The Trojan Horse, which, according to ancient history, the Greeks used to massacre thousands of my ancestors in the bygone city of Troy.


I am a reformed alcoholic and would like to lodge a complaint against Vassar College calling itself the "Brewers." Binge drinking in college is an epidemic, with one study reporting that alcohol is a factor in 1,400 student deaths each year. For the NCAA to allow a nickname so closely associated to beer-making is criminal.


I am not a spokesperson for any group; I'm just a frightened citizen of a violent world. Which is why I'm writing to complain about the nickname of the Ithaca College Bombers. In this day and age of suicide terrorists, isn't "Bombers" an affront to all of us and much more "hostile and abusive" than Florida State paying homage to an Indian tribe?

Hey, NCAA, give me the proud names of the Seminoles and Chippewas any day over the death and destruction of Bullets and Bombers.

[lawyergirl25]

Someone here in town suggested that the Univ of Toledo Rockets should change their name so as to be sensitive to pacifists who don't like the missile imagery.

I can just hear the outcry from the sports world now...

[mermccau]

I agree that some of those terms should not allowed to be used, although I do not see a problem with "Fighting Sioux".

That article by Mike Bianchi is silly. He fails to make a point.

[Irish Elf]

I know a school that used to be the Mocs. I always thought it stood for Moccasins - like the water snake which are in abundance there - but supposedly it's in reference to Indians (which used to be in abundance). now they are the Mockingbirds. When I heard this I started laughing, ooo, big scary mockingbirds. then I was told mockingbirds are some of the most aggresive birds around. I laughed and peed my pants. (sorry Mom) :D

[lawyerlee]

I agree, Meredith. :rolleyes:

As for the larger issue, I think the NCAA has gone too far when it meddles with the operations of a university like FSU that has done all the right things to ensure it is being respectful of the tribe its mascot refers to. I don't think a clear-cut rule fits for this issue. Some mascots are perfectly respectful and honor Native Americans. Others are cartoonish and extremely disrespectful. So I fail to see how a blanket rule can adequately handle the situation, and therefore, I think the NCAA should stay out of it and let the conferences handles things themselves.

I get so tired of the heavy-handedness of the NCAA. They need to back off!

[littlemia]

That article by Mike Bianchi is silly. He fails to make a point.
Well, I think the point of the article is to be silly and that the NCAA rule is silly and inconsistent. I do think that some of the mascots he names such as the Fighting Irish, Crusaders, and Rebels are as offensive as Native American mascots.

I also wanted to add that I think there's a big difference between having Savages or Redskins as your nickname and using the name of an actual tribe.

[mmeblue]

I heard on the radio this morning that FSU is willing to take it all the way to the Supreme Court if they have to in order to keep the Seminole mascot. Here's an article (http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/12353232.htm) from our local paper. I found this part amusing:
FSU has received solid political support, including backing from Gov. Jeb Bush. Florida's U.S. senators, Republican Mel Martinez and Democrat Bill Nelson, and members of the state's delegation in the House of Representatives also have come to the school's defense, mounting political pressure on the NCAA.

"The NCAA has found a way to unify Democrats, Republicans, Washington, the state of Florida - what we could not do, they have had the ability to do," Wetherell said. "I don't think we're going to be short of help in this regard."

[thedoorchick]

I agree, Meredith. :rolleyes:

As for the larger issue, I think the NCAA has gone too far when it meddles with the operations of a university like FSU that has done all the right things to ensure it is being respectful of the tribe its mascot refers to. I don't think a clear-cut rule fits for this issue. Some mascots are perfectly respectful and honor Native Americans. Others are cartoonish and extremely disrespectful. So I fail to see how a blanket rule can adequately handle the situation, and therefore, I think the NCAA should stay out of it and let the conferences handles things themselves.

I get so tired of the heavy-handedness of the NCAA. They need to back off!

I agree with every word of this.

[greenbunny]

I'm offended by the Trojans not because I'm Roman, but because I think woman belong in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. How dare they control their own bodies and destinies using prophylactics?

[dionysia]

I'm offended by the Trojans not because I'm Roman, but because I think woman belong in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. How dare they control their own bodies and destinies using prophylactics?*groan*

I'm Greek-American and I heartily approve of the Trojans. The historical ones. :p

And it looks like the NCAA is unifying us here too, since ITA with both Diana & Emily. :eek: :D

Di

[greenbunny]

*And it looks like the NCAA is unifying us here too, since ITA with both Diana & Emily. :eek: :D

My left arm is tingling! I've having chest pains! Call 911!

[fuzzy]

Former D-I NCAA athlete and former Lady Gamecock (who for the record hates the damn mascot, except when they announced us at games as "The Lady Cocks" because, I'm sorry, its just sounds too funny to change).

My knee-jerk reaction was: There are SO, SO, SO many problems with collegiate athletics that seriously negatively impact the health and overall well-being of the students involved (I'm almost ashamed I was involved...although the scholarship was nice), and THIS is the issue they chose to address?

[dionysia]

My left arm is tingling! I've having chest pains! Call 911!"Hello? Reno 911?"

Di

[kris97]

My knee-jerk reaction was: There are SO, SO, SO many problems with collegiate athletics that seriously negatively impact the health and overall well-being of the students involved (I'm almost ashamed I was involved...although the scholarship was nice), and THIS is the issue they chose to address?

Exactly what I was thinking. Given the horrendous graduation rate for so many DI men's basketball programs (just the first issue that comes to mind), you'd think the NCAA would pick a more pressing issue.

I understand the impetus, I really do, but I've always wondered why the Celtics and the Fighting Irish are never included in these discussions. I guess we Irish are fine with being a mascot. :)

[mermccau]

Well, I think the point of the article is to be silly and that the NCAA rule is silly and inconsistent.Ah, I missed the sarcasm.

[SiValleySteph]

I agree that some of those terms should not allowed to be used, although I do not see a problem with "Fighting Sioux".

I just read something yesterday which said that the term Sioux is a disrespectful term for Native Americans (equivalent to the n-word to some Native Americans). I tried googling for a reference for this and could not find one.

[msnicolea]

I do think there needs to be a distinction made between "Fighting Irish" and the "Indians." You can't talk about these mascots out of context, and in THIS country, native americans are a persecuted minority, even today. Equating them with the Irish is simply apples and oranges. Yes, there is a difference between the Seminole of FSU and the Indian of Cleveland--but it's a slippery slope, so I think a blanket judgement is best. I think it would also be ok if the NCAA allowed schools to conitnue to use their mascot if they had a letter of supprt from the tribe they are representing/using as its mascot. If the Seminoles of Florida don't care, then why shuold I? But if they do mind, then it should not be a mascot.

Would it be ok to have the "fighting Negroes" if the school claimed they meant this "respectfully?

[thedoorchick]

If I'm recalling my history correctly, the Sioux were very peaceful Native Americans and so the term "fighting Sioux" is simply wrong and inaccurate.

Maybe that's what is offensive about that particular one.

[wendalah]

For everyone commenting on the Trojans:
Be nice or I'll kick your ass. Fight on!

[fuzzy]

Just for the record, I'm not disagreeing with the NCAA's decision.

Some of those mascots are blatantly offensive.

But there are a whole slew of (predominately) young naive men who, while still in high school, are being told: "Just come play for me. No need to study or go to class. You'll be going pro anyway."

They go visit and they school sets them up with an "escort" [read: glorified prositute].

They end attending said school and some members of the administration find people to attend their classes and take tests on their behalf.

Four or so years later, they are often rehabilitating from a serious injury, are illiterate (seriously, I tutored these students in grad school), are no where near the pros, and have no viable job prospects.

And then there's the trainers handing out steriods, the totally bogus drug testing programs (which are currently not given oversight by the NCAA until post-season competition) etc etc etc.

I'm not absolving anyone of any responsibility -- these athletes should be takig beter care of themselves and of their academic careers, but I do think the NCAA and NCAA member schools are making a lot of money by manipulating a lot of naive adolescents. Those issues should be priority #1, IMHO.

[artist]

I do think there needs to be a distinction made between "Fighting Irish" and the "Indians." You can't talk about these mascots out of context, and in THIS country, native americans are a persecuted minority, even today. Equating them with the Irish is simply apples and oranges. Yes, there is a difference between the Seminole of FSU and the Indian of Cleveland--but it's a slippery slope, so I think a blanket judgement is best. I think it would also be ok if the NCAA allowed schools to conitnue to use their mascot if they had a letter of supprt from the tribe they are representing/using as its mascot. If the Seminoles of Florida don't care, then why shuold I? But if they do mind, then it should not be a mascot.

Would it be ok to have the "fighting Negroes" if the school claimed they meant this "respectfully?

I agree with you!

And I also TOTALLY disagree that a Native American team name or logo is ever "honoring" Native Americans. Do Native Americans feel honored? I kinda doubt it. But hey, maybe one of you has a close personal (Native American) friend who feels "honored".

[msnicolea]

I agree with you , fuzzy --I certainly don't think this is the most important issue the NCAA has on its plate. But I do support its decision.

[littlemia]

And I also TOTALLY disagree that a Native American team name or logo is ever "honoring" Native Americans. Do Native Americans feel honored? I kinda doubt it. But hey, maybe one of you has a close personal (Native American) friend who feels "honored".

I don't know if they feel honored necessarily, but the Seminole Tribe does support FSU's use of the Seminole mascot. It's because of this reason that I don't believe this should be addressed on a case by case basis.

From http://www.fsu.edu/news/2005/06/17/seminole.support/
The Tribal Council's resolution reads, in part, that the "Seminole Tribe of Florida has an established relationship with Florida State University, which includes its permission to use the name, 'Seminole,' as well as various Seminole symbols and images, such as Chief Osceola, for educational purposes and the Seminole Tribe of Florida wishes to go on record that it has not opposed, and, in fact, supports the continued use of the name 'Seminole.'" The resolution also supports the use of the Seminole head logo, which is endorsed by the university.

I do believe that the NCAA has more important things to worry about. And yes it's strange times when Repubs and Dems are agreeing on something. I think this is only the 2nd time I've ever agreed with Gov. Jeb.

[Wrighty26]

And yes it's strange times when Repubs and Dems are agreeing on something. I think this is only the 2nd time I've ever agreed with Gov. Jeb.

Not only is it uniting Republicans and Democrats-- it's uniting FL schools! I've read several articles where UF (Gators) and Miami (Hurricanes) have both supported FSU's potential law suit.

And yes, the Seminole tribe of FL is actually proud to be FSUs mascots. Not only do they give us permission to use their name/identities, but they also provided with the basis of the uniform that Chief Osceola wears while riding Renegade (the horse). The issue with the Seminole name actually stems from the Oklahoma Seminole Nation that DOES NOT endorse FSU. Their tribe consists of members that were kicked out of FL, which is where (I believe) the disagreement really lies.

Have you read this article?http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8564

[wendalah]

In all honesty, Trojans aside, stuff like this makes my head hurt. Change the team names if people are really that upset about it. Who cares?

[littlemia]

Not only is it uniting Republicans and Democrats-- it's uniting FL schools! I've read several articles where UF (Gators) and Miami (Hurricanes) have both supported FSU's potential law suit.

Yeah, I actually cheer for the Gators although I don't have any hate for FSU or any FL school for that matter (except maybe Miami).

The issue with the Seminole name actually stems from the Oklahoma Seminole Nation that DOES NOT endorse FSU. Their tribe consists of members that were kicked out of FL, which is where (I believe) the disagreement really lies.

When I was in college, we had a Seminole woman speak to our Anthropology class and she mentioned that the Florida Seminoles don't really like the Oklahoma Seminoles.

[littlemia]

In all honesty, Trojans aside, stuff like this makes my head hurt. Change the team names if people are really that upset about it. Who cares?

Hey you're talking about college sports here. That's religion to some people! :D ;) (Not me, I stopped watching college football after one too many horribly officiated games).

[Wrighty26]

Hey you're talking about college sports here. That's religion to some people! (Not me, I stopped watching college football after one too many horribly officiated games).

And it's not "JUST" college sports-- a mascot=tradition! I honestly could care less about college sports, but it pisses me off that a random group of people decided this.

[amew]

I agree that team names like "Redmen" are offensive and should be banned, but I also think that teams named after Indian* tribes (like the Seminoles) should be allowed, with the tribes approval, to continue using those names. The NCAA telling tribes when they can and cannot authorize the use of their names seems extremely patronizing to me. Can we please allow Native Americans just a teensy shread of self-determination for once and let them decide for themselves what is and is not acceptable or even honorable to them?

And yes, I can see how a tribe might consider it an honor to have a sports team named after it (assuming no racial slurs or offensive caricatures are used). Most groups appreciate having their place in history recognized, and the naming of a sports team is one way (maybe not the best way, but a way nonetheless) of doing that. Often, the names chosen for sports teams are chosen because they reflect strength and athletic prowess and/or because they reflect the history of the area -- to have a team named after one's group can be a nod to the group's strength and historical significance. I grew up in Oklahoma, where half the state seems to be at least part Native American. Frankly, I suspect most of my Indian friends would feel very honored to see the OU Sooners named after one of the tribes that called Oklahoma home during its days as "Indian Territory" rather than after a bunch of white guys who jumped the gun so that they could beat out the other white guys in a race to claim "free" land previously inhabited by Native Americans.**

*I tend to flip-flop between Indian and Native American because I know many Indian people, including activists in the field of Indian rights law, who much prefer the term Indian. I mean no offense to anyone reading this who may prefer one over the other.

**No disrespect to the beloved Sooners. Nor do I mean to suggest that they should change their team name.

[kanga1622]

My DH is a RABID Illini fan. Seriously, he has more Illini gear than the college bookstore. He's extremely upset by the NCAA ruling. Their mascot is Chief Illiniwek. The entire state of Illinois is named after an Algonquin word meaning "the tribe of superior men." It follows that the University of Illinois would also use a tribal mascot as a way to connect with the history of the area.

I agree with Fuzzy that there are much more important issues that the NCAA could be focusing on.

[wendalah]

Look at it this way: If they outlaw the names, all the original fan gear will be worth a load on eBay.

[Wrighty26]

Look at it this way: If they outlaw the names, all the original fan gear will be worth a load on eBay.

I'm not really getting this theory... but whatever...

[msnicolea]

She's saying that if they truly go through with the ban and eliminate all things "Illini", for example, then the old Illini stuff will become collectables and be worth some $$$$.

[emmjay]

Can we please allow Native Americans just a teensy shread of self-determination for once and let them decide for themselves what is and is not acceptable or even honorable to them?
This is exactly how I feel - can the NCAA be any more patronizing? It's embarrassing.

(I am referring to the teams named after specific tribes and endorsed by those tribes, not teams named after derogatory nicknames for Native Americans)

[wendalah]

:confused: Was it really that hard to understand what I was saying?

ETA not trying to be snarky just wondering how that was unclear?

[wendalah]

BTW, I mentioned the Trojans because I am about as Trojan as you can get--I got my BA and MA there, and I teach classes now there--and if y'all aren't familiar with the culture there, it's one of the most "WE ARE ALL ABOUT TRADITION" schools that exists. (I tell people in job interviews I went to USC because, no kidding, it will give me an edge over the competition if there are Trojans recruiting at the company!) I watch Trojan football. I have Trojan slang with my college buddies. It's annoying to outsiders ;). That said--I still think, cripes, if this is really going to stir up such a hornet's nest, then change the names. Life is too short.

[Wrighty26]

:confused: Was it really that hard to understand what I was saying?

ETA not trying to be snarky just wondering how that was unclear?

It wasn't unclear, I got what you were saying. I guess I didn't "get" your theory because IMO that stuff would initially be worthless. I also thought the comment was a little rude and unnecessary, but like I said, whatever! Life IS too short.

ETA: I apologize for coming off as rude and bitchy. I'm in total PMS mode at the moment.

[lawyerlee]

I'm not really getting this theory... but whatever...
I thought it was funny. A little levity is always welcome from my perspective! :)

[Atlanta_eBride]

My biggest problem with giving into the NCAA with this (not that we may really have a choice) is that where does it stop? Do we have people who then feel that naming teams after Tigers, Gators, Yellow Jackets, etc. is cruelty to animals? It becomes a game within itself - I think the only ones that are safe are the Miami Hurricanes and the Carolina Tarheels (but yet, is that slang for something - probably).

It seems to me it's a few noise makers getting there way and the NCAA is oiling the squeeky wheel. While I may be way off base, I don't think the majority of the Indians/Native Americans have a real problem with most of it - I can see the derogatory ones but that could be handled on an individual basis.

[Atlanta_eBride]

wendalah, I'll have a TON of FSU stuff on eBay if this goes through! ;)