BreastFeeding in Public... [Archive]

Little Angel '77

08-10-2005, 05:22 AM

I know this thread is going to catch fire, but its not my intent to start a war.

There was a women who wanted to bring her baby to the patriots football preseason game. They told her, her baby had to have a ticket (the baby is 4 months old and she assumed it could sit on her lap). Well, she gets on the news and starts crying saying how unfair it is that she can't bring her baby to the game, ya da ya da. They want her to buy a ticket "she can't afford it" after spending 541.00 on four other tickets, 49.00 is too much money. :rolleyes: So she returned the tickets and then someone came out of the wood work and gave her and her family BOX SEAT tickets, but they want to be kept secret. So getting free tickets to the game was not enough. Now the lady has the tickets....and she has the medias attention so she is now having a push for breast feeding in public being allowed at all stadiums in MA.. She thinks she should be allowed to breastfeed in public IN HER SEAT!....in her seat.

If I am sitting next to her, I am going to be REALLY uncomfortable. I don't want you sitting next to ME breast feeding. Its a public place.... your in my personal space bublle, and I should be able to go to the game without having that next to me. (I know.. i know.. you should be able to breast feed) . I am NOT saying don't breast feed, I am asking you NOT to do it next to me in your seat! Why can't people be considerate of others around them (I know I know... its a natural thing... and I fully plan on doing it when I have kids...)

PLUS- WHY ON EARTH WOULDN"T YOU WANT TO GO OUT TO THE GAME WITHOUT THE BABY!!!!! Parents night out?! augh. I just don't understand what is up with people.

Do they not have consideration of personal space. I am not saying DON't Breastfeed, but they have designated areas for it. Just like changing a diaper.

Would you change the dieaper in the seat? I hope not, (but then again i was on a jet blue flight where the mother stood up and changed the kids diaper on her seat. I was so grossed out.)
Here is the article. I'd love thoughts.

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=97366

Lydia

08-10-2005, 05:31 AM

I BF in public all the time with a cover up or a blanket. It's very discreet and it's possible that a lot of people don't know that I am even feeding DD at the time. Hopefully that will be your experience.

I don't agree with your sentiments about NIP but I do hope that you are not uncomfortable during the game. It SHOULD be an adults only event, IMHO!

Little Angel '77

08-10-2005, 05:43 AM

You know- honestly, I think thats what I am looking for, discretion and not someone FULL out, openly... feeding. I was at a restuarant, and a women was at the table next to me, feeding her child.......and I was so upset, because here I am having a nice dinner, and she was openly feeding. I wish more people were like you and were discreet about it

I also believe it should be an adult only event. You child is not going to gain anything from being there at 4 months!

tlew12778

08-10-2005, 05:43 AM

I wouldn't really be bothered if she was NIP discreetly even I were next to her... but her whole attitude about not wanting to pay for the extra ticket and then using the situation as her personal soap box annoys me. I personally would never bring a baby to a baseball game anyway.

Asha

08-10-2005, 05:50 AM

i admit i do feel uncomfortable when women openly breastfeed in public. i can tell my dh is really uncomfortable with it. i know it is a natural thing, and it isn't the act that makes me uncomfortable. to me it is seeing the woman's breasts. i am pretty conservative when it comes to nudity. :o

the problem is there aren't really many places to go when you are in a public location. i wouldn't want to go to the bathroom bc i would feel the place was full of germs, so i guess i would have to be forced to do it in public, but i would cover up with a blanket, and remove myself to a less crowded area.

taraw

08-10-2005, 06:03 AM

... It SHOULD be an adults only event, IMHO!
Why in the world should a football game be adults only? I am sure there are a lot of people who bring older children. Why are some children allowed and not others? You have no idea how difficult it can be to leave your child for long periods of time when you are nursing. Should this women hire a baby sitter then go to the game without her child only to get totally engorged and have to pump in a public restroom to relieve herself only because you don't think she should have the right to nurse in public? Or should this mother stay home and not go to a football game that she loves to go to because you feel uncomfortable sitting next to her?

I also don't blame her for refusing to by an extra ticket for a 4 month old baby. That is ridiculous. There is no way that a 4 month old baby needs it's own seat. I have gone to baseball games, football games and hockey games with my daughter when she was younger and I didn't have to buy extra tickets for her.

Lastly, I cannot believe that you were so upset about someone nursing their child at a restaurant. When I was still nursing my child, you may have known I was nursing because of the position my baby was in, but you would not have seen any of my breast. I was completely covered up and I did NOT even cover up my baby's head with a blanket. In many states there are laws that give women the right to nurse anywhere the mother is allowed to be in public. I know you said that you don't mean to start a fight with this thread, but that is probably what you will end up getting here. There are many women who feel much stronger about this than I do, and I found your thread offensive.

Jen1098

08-10-2005, 06:06 AM

Well first of all I wouldn't have brought my 4 month old to a football game, it's to nuts with all the drunk obnoxious people.

I nursed my ds for a year and only did it in public a handful of times b/c I was uncomfortable which was a shame. I'm sure you've been around more people bf then you've realized b/c they've done so discreetly.

Now if I did end up bringing my ds to a game while bf and he was hungry I'd feed him in my seat b/c really in a stadium I can't think of anywhere to go and there is no way in hell I'd bf in a bathroom.

I'm pretty sure you probably wouldn't even notice someone bf next to you anyway b/c you'd be staring forward watching the game not the person next to you. :D

LDS Angel 19

08-10-2005, 06:12 AM

I was at a restuarant, and a women was at the table next to me, feeding her child.......

Oh my god. Children eating in a restuarant. You're right. That should be outlawed. :rolleyes:

IrisHope

08-10-2005, 06:15 AM

Little Angel, your post was just the most ignorant post I ever read.

ETA you're right RileyMom

RileyMom

08-10-2005, 06:15 AM

Oh, for the love of Pete. :rolleyes:

BF'ing Mamas, I am pleading with you not to give this thread life. It doesn't deserve it.

Little Angel '77

08-10-2005, 06:17 AM

why is it ignorant? My sister breast feed around me, but was discreet. I am talking about DISCRETION! People are uncomfortable with breast feeding and seeing boob.. (like at the restuatrant!) and its natural, but you can do it without making people uncomfortable. This women could breast feed, but when people at the stadium notice it and are uncomfortable, then you are not using discretion.

Why can't she go to the stadium with a blanket... and breastfeed???? I mean, if she was sitting next to me, and I didn't notice, then fine.. feed away! But when I see boob and nipple and people are uncomfortable... then thats when I have the problem. Thats when security notices, and ask people to do it else where.

I am sorry, I was not upset about the women feeding her child in the resturant.... but excuse me, I don't want to see your boob. Thanks. Is that SO much to ask? If she was sitting there, with a blanket and I didn't see FLESH and nipple while I was eating....I wouldn't have been upset.

KKay

08-10-2005, 06:18 AM

In total agreement with what Taraw said. It amazes me that people are so uncomfortable with BF.

andrew&shannah

08-10-2005, 06:23 AM

I think that many of you are missing the OP's point about the woman feeding her child in the restaurant. She has already said that the woman was NOT discreet and she would have very little problem with the BF if the mother was!
I too get very uncomfortable when a woman is openly BF their child in public. I just don't think it is appropriate as the people around you (most of whom don't know you!) really do not need to see your breasts. Heck, I get uncomfortable seeing people I DO know very well BF in front of me if they are not discreet.
I also agree that the football game is not really a place for the baby to begin with. My hunch would be part of the reasoning for the stadium requiring the purchase of the ticket for the child even though he/she will not require an actual seat is to deter the mother from bringing such a young child to a rowdy sporting event. Plus, that seat would provide extra space between the mother and person next to her for storage of all the gear that goes with the baby as it is usually more than will fit in front of the mother on the floor.

IrishMeg

08-10-2005, 06:28 AM

I'm not a BF mom(in fact I'm not even a mom at all) and I really wanted to let this one go but I just can't.

Your post is ignorant. It's clear you aren't informed about BF or you wouldn't have made the statements you did. It's not easy for a BF to leave her child for many reasons. So she took her 4 month old to something you think should be adults only. Well, thats your problem. She has a child and she is the food source, so what is she supposed to do? Sit at home until the kid is weaned? Not possible!

And if you don't want her to BF in front of you, where exactly is she supposed to go to feed the baby? Haul herself and the child all the way to car? That's not realistic. Feed the baby in the bathroom? That's disgusting! Would you eat in a public bathroom?!

It's ignorance like this that makes it so difficult for BF mom's in this country. Babies are actually supposed to BF. It is was is supposed to happen. Why make it more difficult than it already is for them by imposing your issues on them. If you have a problem with seeing a small portion of a woman's breast that's YOUR problem.

Leave the BF mom's alone to do what is right for their baby and their families. It really isn't any of your business.

cantwait

08-10-2005, 06:31 AM

Little Angel '77, I think the fact that you do not have children is showing, and while it was not your intention to "start a war" I am pretty sure some people are going to be offended by your post.

I am one of the biggest advocates out there for nursing discreetly. When I BFed my son (for 8 months) I took pains to make sure I was always covered. I also have some experience with the situation you mentioned re: the football game. When my son was almost 7 months old, my sister bought surprise tickets to a Colts game for us and my dad to go to the day after Christmas. I left my baby for about 12 hours that day, since it is a 2 hour drive both ways. I don't regret it. It was a great game and I enjoyed it. However, because of that day my supply dropped dramatically and it hastened weaning. We weren't really ready to do that yet and certainly a 4-month old baby would be more dependent on nursing than my son was.

I am really curious about what you mean when you talk about "designated places for BFing" in a football stadium. I can tell you, I looked for a place to pump when I was at the game. The options are not good - either you a)nurse/pump in a filthy, disgusting bathroom stall and miss the game or b) do it in your seat. I did choose option A, which meant I had to sprint to the restroom during halftime and I couldn't really pump anything, because I wasn't relaxed and it was a nasty scene. There was not a designated mother's room or a nice couch. If there were, I would have taken advantage of it.

A 4-month old infant is very portable. You say, "what about Parent's Night Out?" and I agree that is important. However, when a baby is that young it is much easier to take them places since they will sleep in the infant carrier. My son is 14 months now and we definitely take advantage of babysitters because none of us would enjoy an experience like a football game with a toddler in tow.

Moms have to do what they have to do, and someday perhaps you will realize that. I have never met a mom who deliberately "showed her boob" to make people uncomfortable. Babies get hungry, they need to eat. You might be surprised, you may have been sitting next to a nursing baby and not even have known it.

Little Angel '77

08-10-2005, 06:33 AM

I know ALL about BFing....
I have a sister with two boys both BF and a sister in law with a BF litle one right now. So please please don't think i am 16 years old... and have never been around children.

I totally understand the need for BF and I PLAN on doing it! I just plan on being discret. My point is NOT against BFing... its about this women at the football game.. who wants to BF. GO AHEAD! BE DISCREET! If no one notices... theres not a problem, now is there....... If people are noticing... don't you think you are doing something wrong?

LittleFredPunkinHead

08-10-2005, 06:34 AM

Personally, I don't think a pro-football game is a great place for a baby because it's noisy, rowdy, etc. Just like I don't think a horror movie is a great place to bring a young child. However, if that's what the parent wants to do, fine, whatever.

As far as breastfeeding in public, I don't find it particularly thrilling, but I imagine some people don't find it particularly thrilling when I fix my makeup in public.

The thing about being required to purchase another seat for a baby though- absolutely she should have to. Let's face it- taking a baby out for four hours is going to require a lot of gear. Even if the baby is sitting on the parents' laps for the whole game, they're going to need that seat space to stow the gear.

kanga1622

08-10-2005, 06:36 AM

I gotta say that Breastfeeding is what breast were designed for so she should be able to nurse her baby anywhere she wants to. And many mothers find it difficult to leave their child with a sitter especially when they are that young.

I'd much rather see a woman OPENLY breastfeeding sitting right next to me than listen to that baby cry while she is trying to be discreet and cover herself so that others are comfortable. If she wants to be discreet for HER comfort level that is one thing, but that baby's needs are paramount to any other people's comfort level.

My husband calls me the biggest prude he's ever met and I get upset by belly baring shirts let alone any actual nudity. And yet I still think that a mother OPENLY nursing her baby is one of the most beautiful things to see.

ETA:to subscribe

Kristen78

08-10-2005, 06:38 AM

WOW.

Changing a diaper is alot different than eating, IMO. Maybe this mother doesn't want to see you eating next to her. Maybe she thinks its disgusting to watch the dude in the seat next to her wolfing down a huge slice of pizza or a sausage dripping with grease?

And the horrors of seeing a child eating at a restaurant. Where are babies supposed to eat?

I'm sorry but I've seen way worse than NIP. I will admit that I am not 100% comfortable with NIP, but thats my problem, not the nursing mothers. I wouldn't say I am uncomfortable, but I guess I feel like I dont want to look because I might be making the mother uncomfortable.

IrisHope

08-10-2005, 06:39 AM

Let's talk after you have a child and BF him/her. Just because it makes you uncomfortable doens't mean she needs to change anything. And please don't try to decide when a parent should have a "parents night out". If it is legal to bring in children then people need to mind their own business.

LDS Angel 19

08-10-2005, 06:41 AM

I'd much rather see a woman OPENLY breastfeeding sitting right next to me than listen to that baby cry while she is trying to be discreet and cover herself so that others are comfortable. If she wants to be discreet for HER comfort level that is one thing, but that baby's needs are paramount to any other people's comfort level.

Ditto this.

And, just because the women is not hiding under a blanket doesen't always mean she's not trying to be discreet. I don't think she stood up and yelled "Ok, I am going to breastfeed now. Everyone look over here!"

Nigellas

08-10-2005, 06:43 AM

Little Angel... Did you read the article? Maybe you should reread the part that said:
I don't know why a child should be withheld food because someone else's comfort level is being compromised
ITA.

Little Angel '77

08-10-2005, 06:43 AM

I

If she wants to be discreet for HER comfort level that is one thing, but that baby's needs are paramount to any other people's comfort level.

.

You have to to be joking! You're in public, consideration and common courtesy is a dying trend.

Its just so sad that people don't care anymore about the comfort level of the people around them in public anymore. I truly can't stand when people are at a stadium and smoke around me. Your in my public space.... Your taking my FRESH air and filling it with toxins... Thanks.

Does anyone remember after 9/11 how considerate everyone was to everyone else? It was amazing... People actually cared. Now we are back to being mean to everyone. I can't remember the last time I let someone in - in traffic, and they waved THANkS! :) People use to do that ALL the time, not anymore.

The BF OPENLY (not discretly) in public goes along with not smoking around me, and not swearing around my nephews... its common courtesy .... IMO,

Thats what bothers me.. thats all.

dal

08-10-2005, 06:43 AM

You can think you know ALL about BFing. I thought I knew all about it too until I actually did it.

As for nursing discreetly, I am all for that. However, it is much easier said than done. My first daughter wanted to nurse 24/7 and she was not an easy nurser. She would latch on and off, pull blankets off of my shoulder etc. So yes, I nursed in public (or I would have never left the house) and yes, people sometimes saw boob I guess if they were LOOKING. And no, I don't think that if people were noticing that I was doing something wrong. Nursing is complex. It is not the same experience for everyone. Yes some women can latch a baby on and cover themselves up and that's it. I don't think that's the case for most.

And as for why a woman would bring her 4 month old baby to the game - maybe her baby didn't take any bottles. Maybe she didn't want to give her baby bottles. Neither of my girls took bottles so where I went, they did until they were sleeping through the night.

Clearly you think you know ALL about BFing but you just don't.

Alioop12345

08-10-2005, 06:43 AM

Just wanted to reply to the OP....Your comment about no wanting readers to think you don't know about BF'ing struck a chord with me....trust me... you don't know about BF'ing until you have done it yourself.... I don't know if it's because of how difficult those first few weeks are but I felt that since I hard worked SO HARD to establish a BF'ing relationship, that I would protect it at all costs....even BF'ing DISCREETLY in public. ALso...I wanted to add that my son is 18 months old and I still have not spent a single night away from him. I waited a long time to have him and worked hard to get him and I really have no desire to be away from him right now.....especially when he was 4 months old...I would not have hesistated to take him to a football game and I personally feel that it is crazy that she was expected to pay for a ticket for an infant.

RileyMom

08-10-2005, 06:48 AM

Okay, I can't resist.

The BF OPENLY (not discretly) in public goes along with not smoking around me,

THIS has got to be the most stupd, ignorant statment I have ever seen. Ever.

DiscoDiva

08-10-2005, 06:48 AM

I'm fine if women want to BF in public, as long as there is some discretion. It is a natural thing. I also agree that I've probably passed many women BFing before and I never even knew it.

But - I would possibly feel uncomfortable if I was in a stadium seat and someone was doing it inches from me - or maybe not. If I wanted to nurse my child in a stadium, I'd probably move to somewhere where I wasn't so close to another person, maybe a lounge, an area where nobody is sitting, or the restroom. Then again, who knows...

PrincessTommi

08-10-2005, 06:49 AM

It's difficult for me to understand any reasoning that compares breastfeeding to smoking/secondhand smoke and human waste.

IrisHope

08-10-2005, 06:52 AM

You have to to be joking! You're in public, consideration and common courtesy is a dying trend.

I agree, so maybe you could have been a little more considerate and understanding to this women.

IrisHope

08-10-2005, 06:52 AM

Nigellas

08-10-2005, 06:55 AM

Its just so sad that people don't care anymore about the comfort level of the people around them in public anymore.

It's just so sad that people care more about their own hang ups then the health and needs of a BABY.

kanga1622

08-10-2005, 06:58 AM

It's difficult for me to understand any reasoning that compares breastfeeding to smoking/secondhand smoke and human waste.

ITA. Comfort level is one thing. The ability to breathe is an entirely different issue.

andrew&shannah

08-10-2005, 07:00 AM

It's just so sad that people care more about their own hang ups then the health and needs of a BABY.

Now, wait a second...the baby doesn't NEED to be at the game in the first place. The mother is potentially comprimising the needs of the baby to enjoy the game because she knows that breastfeeding in the stadium openly is not allowed. So, if the mother isn't taking into account the needs of her child...why are you condemning a perfect stranger to this family for putting her needs above the baby?

IrishMeg

08-10-2005, 07:01 AM

....trust me... you don't know about BF'ing until you have done it yourself....

You know, usually I hate statements like this because it seems dismissive but in this case I think it is true.

Little Angel 77, I think after you've had a child and BF for a while you will see why your comments are so selfish and ignorant. I'm not a BF mom but what you are saying is offensive to me as a woman who hopes to someday BF. I think actually experiencing BF will be the only thing that will make you see why it bothers women to hear you say what you are saying.

Little Angel '77

08-10-2005, 07:03 AM

I'll breastfeed my daughter in the bathroom at Yankee stadium after you've had your lunch there.

Hehehe.... Ok ok.... You win. But honestly, I don't see how the stadium is cleaner than the bathroom.. I know its a bit cleaner, but not by much. I hate Fenway park, its SO filthy, I wear sneakers and long pants when I go.

I am trying (but failing) to make the point, that smoking around me, in an open public place really bothers me, ... as it probably does others. - As well as seeing nipple. Thats all I am saying... for the love of god, I don't wnat to see your nipple/boob, is that SO much to ask :) I really am not being mean at all in this thread, and I know tone is something thats difficult to read on here.

I guess I am trying to figure out why you'd WANT to feed your child around a bunch of strangers, in a stadium with beer being dumped down your back and a guy spilling nachoe chips in your lap. :confused:

thedoorchick

08-10-2005, 07:03 AM

Well, technically babies don't really NEED anything, except to eat and sleep and be diapered and cuddled. I'm willing to bet that the baby doesn't care if s/he's at a baseball game, a restaurant, or home on the couch as long as the food keeps coming...

I would probably take an infant to a baseball game, just because little babies are portable enough that it's not an inconvenience to anyone. Toddlers are a whole different story.

I believe at our local baseball games, children under two are admitted free, but I may need to double check that info. The Rangers rarely sell out, so from the team's economic standpoint I'm sure they would rather have two parents paying and the baby get in free than have no tickets sold to that family at all.

andrew&shannah

08-10-2005, 07:07 AM

I would probably take an infant to a baseball game, just because little babies are portable enough that it's not an inconvenience to anyone.

See, I disagree with this.
In a crowded stadium, an infant is very much an inconvenience because of all of the stuff that is necessary when taking a baby out for a long period of time. Sure, it's fun to take your child with you BUT (especially if there is not an extra seat to store the baby bag, carrier, etc) it can be a big inconvenience to the people around you having an infant present.

Little Angel '77

08-10-2005, 07:11 AM

Now, wait a second...the baby doesn't NEED to be at the game in the first place. The mother is potentially comprimising the needs of the baby to enjoy the game because she knows that breastfeeding in the stadium openly is not allowed. So, if the mother isn't taking into account the needs of her child...why are you condemning a perfect stranger to this family for putting her needs above the baby?

Thank you andrew&shannah...

I believe that if you know your child is going to be need to be feed at 7... then, why can't you wait to go out at 7:30 or 8... and make the public less uncomfortable? I guess everyone is selfish -huh? That way- you get to go out.... your baby gets to come, and I don't have to see your boob. Win Win.

*yes I know..this isn't ALWAYS possible,***

but Case and point... that lady at the restuarant could have had a later dinner. That was a leisure activity.... and honestly....if you can't be "bothered" to wait to go out so you can feed your child and your going to just "do it on the fly", I think that is COMPLETELY inconsiderate. That lady could have gone out a smidge later.

And since I "don't" know anything about BF.... for some instances such as going to a game with Jr. Can't you pump and bottle it? (*I AM ASKING....*)

Lizard

08-10-2005, 07:12 AM

elladee

08-10-2005, 07:12 AM

See, I disagree with this.
In a crowded stadium, an infant is very much an inconvenience because of all of the stuff that is necessary when taking a baby out for a long period of time.

But how much stuff do you really need for an infant? Obviously this baby is being bf, so no bottles/formula. You could carry the baby in a sling. You'd probably needs some diapers/wipes and a change of clothes. That would fit in a small bag or backpack that would easily go under your seat.

thedoorchick

08-10-2005, 07:12 AM

thedoorchick

08-10-2005, 07:16 AM

Jen1098

08-10-2005, 07:18 AM

For some moms it's not possible to pump for a varity of reasons. My ds wouldn't take a bottle until he was about 5 months old. Not for lack of trying on our part.
So yeah times when we'd venture out I'd bf him but that doesn't mean he'lll wait 3 hours to eat again. When he wants to eat I'd better feed him quick or I'd get more dirty looks than from bf.

cantwait

08-10-2005, 07:18 AM

See, I disagree with this.
In a crowded stadium, an infant is very much an inconvenience because of all of the stuff that is necessary when taking a baby out for a long period of time. Sure, it's fun to take your child with you BUT (especially if there is not an extra seat to store the baby bag, carrier, etc) it can be a big inconvenience to the people around you having an infant present.

OK, so say someone obese is sitting next to you and taking up part of your "personal space". Could that not be considered an inconvenience in a crowded stadium? Should that person need to feel responsible for your comfort level? Should that person be banned from the stadium or required to buy an extra seat, or should they just stay home and watch the game on TV? Or another example. Should people not be allowed to carry large purses or backpacks with them into a stadium? That is a lot of stuff. It might get in your way and hinder your enjoyment of the game.

Not to get into another issue entirely, but it is a slippery slope when you start saying that others are inconvieniencing you in a public place just by their very presence.

lawyerlee

08-10-2005, 07:23 AM

I'm not sure what changing a diaper has to do with a baby eating. One involves waste, the other involves food. I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't go to the bathroom and eat in the same place.

Nigellas

08-10-2005, 07:23 AM

Now, wait a second...the baby doesn't NEED to be at the game in the first place.

I'm looking at this from a more broad view- NIP in general- not just at a game.

andrew&shannah

08-10-2005, 07:24 AM

Well, this is probably getting off on a bit of a tangent but a lot of "stuff" isn't all that necessary for most people. Most moms I know would sling the baby, carry a couple of extra diapers and they're all set. Maybe a bag with an extra outfit or a couple of odds and ends but honestly, often they're no bigger than the average purse.

Ok, just as moms are very different in their feeding styles, moms seem to be very different in what they take along with their children. I have season tickets to my husband's college football team. We got to every game and EVERY game is packed! On 98% of the occasions I have seen young children (infants, toddlers, whatever), they have been accompanied with a TON of stuff...much more than the size of an average purse.

Of course, not every mom is that way...just giving my experience and reasoning for saying the child, even though he/she would sit on the mom's lap, would need his/her own seat. Unfortunately, in all of these situations, the mother tends to use the same logic of 'the child's needs are more important than anyone around me' and not ensure there is adequate space to hold all of the stuff without it being a huge nuisance to those around her.

I don't think anyone here is asking for children NEVER to be brought into places other than playgrounds, daycare, etc. I think they are just asking for some courtesy just as any mother would request that the people around her NOT spew profanity, smoke incessantly, or just generally act in a way that may affect her child negatively. It's all about considering the feelings and comfort levels of the people around you to a reasonable degree.

amew

08-10-2005, 07:26 AM

I don't have kids, and I therefore don't know all that much about how difficult/easy it is to breastfeed discreetly. But I do know that comparing the uneasiness you feel as a result of public breastfeeding to the effects of secondhand smoke is beyond ridiculous. Until several thousand scientific studies prove that exposure to the female breast causes cancer that analogy has no place in a discussion about the relative merits of nursing in public.

BTB

08-10-2005, 07:26 AM

I was so upset, because here I am having a nice dinner, and she was openly feeding.

Oh my gosh!!! Do you mean that you were openly..... feeding? I'm glad *I* wasn't sitting next to you, because I would've been very uncomfortable. I really hope you were discreet about it!

LittleFredPunkinHead

08-10-2005, 07:27 AM

IMO, if a person is going to take up more space than one seat, then they need to pay for more than one seat. There may be some people who manage to take up no more than one seat when they bring their baby and baby's accoutrements, but what I see more often than not is a large bag (in addition to the purse) and a stroller. That just plain will not fit in the space of one seat, along with an adult and a baby.

As far as people bringing in large backpacks, people who are heavy and take up more than one seat... Well, at most stadiums I've been to, backpacks aren't allowed. And, if you're large enough to require more than one seat to be comfortable, then you'd better be prepared to pay for more than one seat. Because if you're sitting next to me- I feel for ya, but I'm not sharing the seat I paid for.

thedoorchick

08-10-2005, 07:29 AM

LOL BTB!

Why was this thread moved? I don't see how it has anything to do with news OR politics.

As someone else was asking in the last few days, what exactly constitutes "chit chat"?

Or should this forum be renamed, "News and Politics and Anything That Could Remotely Be Considered Controversial"?

lml41981

08-10-2005, 07:29 AM

The thing about being required to purchase another seat for a baby though- absolutely she should have to. Let's face it- taking a baby out for four hours is going to require a lot of gear. Even if the baby is sitting on the parents' laps for the whole game, they're going to need that seat space to stow the gear.
I don't know if this has been posted, but I looked on the Patriots website and it says that strollers and car seats aren't allowed in the stadium. Nor are coolers or anything like that. So, an infant who can't sit in a car seat in her own seat - thus necessitating holding - ought not be charged for a seat.

Not touching the breastfeeding issue with a 10-foot pole.

RileyMom

08-10-2005, 07:32 AM

Why was this thread moved? I don't see how it has anything to do with news OR politics.

As someone else was asking in the last few days, what exactly constitutes "chit chat"?

Or should this forum be renamed, "News and Politics and Anything That Could Remotely Be Considered Controversial"?

I agree. No offense, Mods, but I think we're getting a little crazy with the moving around of threads. Why is something controversial automatically "political".

DiscoDiva

08-10-2005, 07:32 AM

If I wanted to nurse my child in a stadium, I'd probably move to somewhere where I wasn't so close to another person, maybe a lounge, an area where nobody is sitting, or the restroom.
I'll breastfeed my daughter in the bathroom at Yankee stadium after you've had your lunch there.
ETA Disco, this struck a chord with me but I know you didn't mean it that way.
Notice that I said If I wanted to nurse my child in a stadium, I'd probably move to somewhere where I wasn't so close to another person, maybe a lounge, an area where nobody is sitting, or the restroom. I was talking about what I would feel comfortable doing. Why would that strike a cord with you, if I'm talking about what I'd feel comfortable doing? You can do whatever you want!

paiger

08-10-2005, 07:33 AM

cantwait

08-10-2005, 07:34 AM

I don't know if this has been posted, but I looked on the Patriots website and it says that strollers and car seats aren't allowed in the stadium. Nor are coolers or anything like that. So, an infant who can't sit in a car seat in her own seat - thus necessitating holding - ought not be charged for a seat.

That is interesting information. I also agree that a young infant (not mobile) should not be charged for an extra seat as all they will be doing is sitting on a lap or being held. But, I suppose the organization has to draw the line somewhere about who has to pay for a seat and who doesn't.

eli1126

08-10-2005, 07:35 AM

I agree. No offense, Mods, but I think we're getting a little crazy with the moving around of threads. Why is something controversial automatically "political".

I wanted to second this, the thread moving is getting a little silly.

Beth

paiger

08-10-2005, 07:37 AM

I wanted to second this, the thread moving is getting a little silly.

I'll third this sentiment :p

Little Angel '77

08-10-2005, 07:37 AM

BTB - well, your child is also peeing his pants, should I do that as well --at the table???

lawyerlee

08-10-2005, 07:37 AM

Why was this thread moved? I don't see how it has anything to do with news OR politics.
The OP said the topic came up as a result of a news item. If you think you can do a better job of determining where things should go, perhaps you'd like to be a mod on these forums?

LyLMyssChaos

08-10-2005, 07:37 AM

Thank you andrew&shannah...

I believe that if you know your child is going to be need to be feed at 7... then, why can't you wait to go out at 7:30 or 8... and make the public less uncomfortable? I guess everyone is selfish -huh? That way- you get to go out.... your baby gets to come, and I don't have to see your boob. Win Win.

*yes I know..this isn't ALWAYS possible,***

but Case and point... that lady at the restuarant could have had a later dinner. That was a leisure activity.... and honestly....if you can't be "bothered" to wait to go out so you can feed your child and your going to just "do it on the fly", I think that is COMPLETELY inconsiderate. That lady could have gone out a smidge later.

And since I "don't" know anything about BF.... for some instances such as going to a game with Jr. Can't you pump and bottle it? (*I AM ASKING....*)

Okay, as a former Bf-ing mom, I have total and complete issue with the above statements for SO many reasons:

1) Not all kids eat on a "schedule" and and even fewer BF babies do. In fact, my DD is now 25 months and still truly does not have a schedule. I don't eat on a schedule, so why should my child be forced to.

2)Why should the mother eat later to please you???? If she is hungry??? Then by golly, she should be allowed to eat whenever she darn well wants to. How would you like it if when you got to the restaurant a worker looked at you and said "oh, we're sorry, we're only serving people whom are 5 foot and shorter right now, we'll serve you in 30 minutes or so, when we get to the 5 foot and over group"? or something equally as ignorant.

3) My DD BF for 15 months and not once did she take bottle. She started a sippy cup at 3 months and refused to drink breastmilk from anything but the "tap." Strange how a child wouldn't want to go against nature just to pacify society, go figure!

And who would have thought that it would be wrong to take a child to a sporting event???? In our family, appreciating sports is a total family event, and we've been taking our children, nieces and nephews since they were born. I think it's a shame that our society is getting so self centered as to think that they can begin to dictate when and where a child should be seen. Our children don't belong at sporting events??? Perhaps this is partly what is contributing to the epidemic of obesity in this country. You make it sound like you were at a bar or a dance club or something. And if you can't take your child to a sporting event, I think it's the overzealous loud mouth jerks that are in the wrong!!!

DiscoDiva

08-10-2005, 07:38 AM

This country is in such a sad state of affairs... filth on TV is OK, declining morals are OK, allowing your kids to dress like whores is OK. But breastfeeding in public... Oh no, get the lynch mob!
Filth on TV is NOT okay, declining morals are NOT okay, and little kids dressing like whores is NOT okay, and breastfeeding in public is fine.

lawyerlee

08-10-2005, 07:38 AM

Who said it was "political"? It is related to a news item. Perhaps you guys should play Mod for a day. I really don't appreciate all the criticism. We don't get paid for this, you know.

justHB

08-10-2005, 07:39 AM

The fact that this woman wants to breast feed at the stadium isn't what grabbed my attention about this story - it's the fact that the woman assumed she could get something (a seat) for nothing (free) and then did.

If the stadium's policy is that ever attendee must have a ticket ... well then, there you go. Why should she get special exemption? In my mind, she shouldn't. Sadly, too many people have entitlement issues these days and don't think certain rules and regulations should apply to them. If only I had $1 for everytime I've heard someone around me describe their situation as "special circumstances" I'd be a rich woman and could afford my own box seats.

lml41981

08-10-2005, 07:40 AM

That is interesting information. I also agree that a young infant (not mobile) should not be charged for an extra seat as all they will be doing is sitting on a lap or being held. But, I suppose the organization has to draw the line somewhere about who has to pay for a seat and who doesn't.
The website does say that all fans, regardless of age, must have a ticket to enter the stadium. I disagree with that policy as other stadiums I know of (and even some airlines and other ticket-driven businesses) will say that if a child is being held non-stop in the lap or is under a certain age/height, a ticket doesn't need to be purchased. But I suppose in my disagreement, I have the choice not to go.

justHB

08-10-2005, 07:41 AM

Who said it was "political"? It is related to a news item. Perhaps you guys should play Mod for a day. I really don't appreciate all the criticism. We don't get paid for this, you know. Not to sound bitchy, but criticism is part of the job (whether you like it or not). You know I like you Diana, but your post is condescending and comes off ruder than people asking for clarification on why the post was moved in the first place.

Witty Username

08-10-2005, 07:41 AM

Little Angel '77 - I know you said you didn't want to start a war but I'm having a hard time figuring out what your intent was when you started this thread.

I'm also not a BF'ing mom and I found your comments offensive, how did you think people were going to react? Nowhere in that article did it say that this woman planned on whipping out her boob and flashing it on the Jumbotron, she's just asking to feed her baby in her seat. How do you know she won't be discreet?
In my entire life I've only run across two blatantly indiscreet breastfeeding moms. One was in the early '70's and was a free-love hippie chick and the other was more recent but she had a fondness for flashing her boobs long before she became a mom. :rolleyes:

This doesn't mean that once in awhile even the most discreet won't accidently become exposed but they're NOT doing it to make YOU uncomfortable.

RileyMom

08-10-2005, 07:42 AM

You know I like you Diana, but your post is condescending and comes off ruder than people asking for clarification on why the post was moved in the first place.

ITA.

lml41981

08-10-2005, 07:42 AM

BTB - well, your child is also peeing his pants, should I do that as well --at the table???
Lately, I pee my pants a little when I sneeze. You're welcome to pee your pants, if you'd like. It would probably make me feel more comfortable.

lawyerlee

08-10-2005, 07:43 AM

Not to sound bitchy, but criticism is part of the job (whether you like it or not). You know I like you Diana, but your post is condescending and comes off ruder than people asking for clarification on why the post was moved in the first place.
Is it necessary to continue to clutter up this topic with a discussion about whether I'm bitchy? I think we've covered that and can move on. :)

msnicolea

08-10-2005, 07:43 AM

I'll breastfeed my daughter in the bathroom at Yankee stadium after you've had your lunch there.

Exactly!

re: the smoking "analogy"-- I for one have never read about anyone getting cancer from second-hand breast milk!

They are BREASTS people! We all have them-- get over it!!!!

I do think she should have to pay for an other seat if there is a great deal of "gear" etc, that will compromise those sitting next to her. Otherwise, if she holds the baby the whole time, who cares?

LDS Angel 19

08-10-2005, 07:44 AM

Lately, I pee my pants a little when I sneeze. You're welcome to pee your pants, if you'd like. It would probably make me feel more comfortable.

LMAO! That was great.

justHB

08-10-2005, 07:44 AM

Lately, I pee my pants a little when I sneeze. You're welcome to pee your pants, if you'd like. It would probably make me feel more comfortable. You and Fergie (Black Eyed Peas), I imagine. I still feel so bad for her that she peed her pants on stage and didn't know.

lawyerlee

08-10-2005, 07:44 AM

You and Fergie (Black Eyed Peas), I imagine.

:snicker:
No kidding. See, you're *not* alone, Lyndsey. ;) :D

thedoorchick

08-10-2005, 07:45 AM

Who said it was "political"? It is related to a news item. Perhaps you guys should play Mod for a day. I really don't appreciate all the criticism. We don't get paid for this, you know.

If I had been invited to "play mod" for a day or much longer than that, I would have been happy to. Choosing the mods wasn't up to me; all I could do was express my interest and willingness.

There has been a lot of moving threads to different forums lately, and it happens to be something that I consider unnecessary at the level that it's happening. At some point it gets to whether some people don't want to start threads because they might get moved because someone decided it didn't belong there. It's like saying the OP doesn't have a clue where his/her thread should be.

And, lest you take this too personally, I am having a similar issue with a board my husband runs, and I've expressed this same sentiment. And he doesn't get paid either.

ETA: I cross-posted and now see the post requesting this be dropped. Consider it done.

LyLMyssChaos

08-10-2005, 07:46 AM

"Everybody my age pees their pants, it's the coolest!"--Billy Madison

katmg

08-10-2005, 07:48 AM

Lately, I pee my pants a little when I sneeze. You're welcome to pee your pants, if you'd like. It would probably make me feel more comfortable.

BWAAH! That totally made my morning.

I'm not a mom but the opinions on BF in this thread strike me as incredibly ignorant. That mom's job is to care for that baby. What happens when the baby is suddenly hungry during the game, or is upset and the only thing that will soothe him/her is to nurse? I guess she should put the needs of the strangers around her first because that would be the "considerate" thing to do?

IrisHope

08-10-2005, 07:48 AM

Lyndsey, LOLOL

Little Angel '77

08-10-2005, 07:50 AM

Whitty Username... if she didn't intend to be offensive well she breast feed than WHY in the name did she feel the need to get on a soap box about BFing???

She got free tickets to the game after complaining about having to pay 49.00 extra to bring her son. So she returned the tickets and now has BOX seats....

Now that doens't make her happy... she has to go on a rampage about "where" she can BF. No one said SHE COULDN"T... they just have a designated area.......

Why is having a designated area for you to do it, completely out of hte question???? Why MUST you do it in your seat? If people didn't have a changing room for the baby, people would be up in arms, but god forbid we give you YOUR OWN area to bfed...

You have a PLACE in the stadium to go.... why can't you go there? and its NOT the bathroom and its ALL yours :) ... Gilette Stadium is VERY nice..... and they have a nice little area for you to feed. Whats the big deal, why can't she go there... ?

lawyerlee

08-10-2005, 07:55 AM

Why is having a designated area for you to do it, completely out of hte question???? Why MUST you do it in your seat? If people didn't have a changing room for the baby, people would be up in arms, but god forbid we give you YOUR OWN area to bfed...
I guess she feels that if people are able to eat their hot dogs there or if she is allowed to bottle feed there, it is no different to breast feed there and she is trying to break down a barrier.

Little Angel '77

08-10-2005, 07:55 AM

What happens when the baby is suddenly hungry during the game, or is upset and the only thing that will soothe him/her is to nurse? I guess she should put the needs of the strangers around her first because that would be the "considerate" thing to do?

You go to the DESIGNATED area... just like smoking has a designated area and changing the babies diaper has a designated area.....

There are places to do these things... do you understand what I am saying? I am NOT against BFing...

This women has her feathers ruffled because *gasp* she must get up and go to an area that the stadium asks her to BFed. just like the area we ask she change the childs diaper.

justHB

08-10-2005, 07:57 AM

Is it necessary to continue to clutter up this topic with a discussion about whether I'm bitchy? I think we've covered that and can move on. :)I didn't say you were bitchy (rude and condescending were actually were the words I used to describe the tone of your post). I said *I* didn't want to sound bitchy. Geez. I see some things never change ... mods aren't allowed to be criticized but members can be. Got it.

:heading to work now:

thedoorchick

08-10-2005, 07:58 AM

The issue of BFing in front of people aside, if I paid the going rate for a professional football game ticket, I'd surely want to see the whole game and not be cooped up in a "feeding room" somewhere away from the action.

I realize in this particular case, this woman was given free tickets, but generally speaking, people who are at sporting events have paid good money to see them.

lawyerlee

08-10-2005, 07:58 AM

I didn't say you were bitchy (rude and condescending were actually were the words I used to describe the tone of your post). I said *I* didn't want to sound bitchy. Geez. I see some things never change ... mods aren't allowed to be criticized but members can be. Got it.

:heading to work now:
I didn't say you said I was being bitchy. I was acknowledging that I probably was being bitchy, but asking that we not get into a lengthy discussion of it, like this. I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I'm grumpy today. :)

kam

08-10-2005, 07:59 AM

Breastfeeding is not "just eating" to some people. I hear "it's just a child eating". Okay, fine. But then, I hear "it's a beautiful thing" or "it's a bonding thing". Now, when I eat, I never ever think "wow, this is a beautiful thing to watch". It's eating. So I guess if you (general you) want to call breastfeeding "beautiful", you (again, general you) do put it on a plane other than eating. Therefore, people will have different reactions to it as a result. What I may consider beautiful may get an opposite reaction by someone else.

I think they should be charged for bringing in the baby. To me, if they only sold "seats", I know plenty of college students who would say "we'll share a seat". I totally would've done that. Airlines have different rules for children and it's up to the parents to find out what they are. I would imagine this should be the case for the stadium. I imagine some parents would never imagine being charged for their child, but throwing a hissy fit as a result isn't exactly the way to resolve the issue.

Little Angel '77

08-10-2005, 08:00 AM

See the thing is, that argument about paying all that money to watch the game, and you being inconvienced to go breast feed in the designated area, and miss the game, doesn't work.

They have tvs in the designated area

dionysia

08-10-2005, 08:00 AM

lml41981

08-10-2005, 08:00 AM

You go to the DESIGNATED area... just like smoking has a designated area and changing the babies diaper has a designated area.....
Well, there's no rule saying people can't eat a hot dog or drink a beer at their seat...so why should there be a rule that a baby can't drink some milk at its seat? If the mother has to get up repeatedly to feed, then don't charge the mother (or the baby) full price for the seat, as they aren't getting full use of it. Being forced out of your seat for any reason other than violence or misconduct ought to be grounds for refund - at least partial, IMO. I realize this woman didn't pay for her seats, but somebody did.

lml41981

08-10-2005, 08:01 AM

They have tvs in the designated area
If she wanted to see the game on tv, she'd have stayed home.

thedoorchick

08-10-2005, 08:01 AM

If I wanted to watch a game on TV and not live in person, I'd stay home to do it.

Additionally, there are many people (I am not one of them) who are offended by bottle feeding. Should bottle feeding moms be banished to the DESIGNATED room, just so people aren't uncomfortable?

LittleFredPunkinHead

08-10-2005, 08:03 AM

Totally off on a tangent here, but it is so wrong in my opinion that airlines will allow babies to be held as opposed to being required to have a seat (with a carseat). That's just plain dangerous for the baby. If there's heavy turbulence, or god forbid, a crash, that baby has no chance.

Little Angel '77

08-10-2005, 08:03 AM

Well, there's no rule saying people can't eat a hot dog or drink a beer at their seat...so why should there be a rule that a baby can't drink some milk at its seat? If the mother has to get up repeatedly to feed, then don't charge the mother (or the baby) full price for the seat, as they aren't getting full use of it. Being forced out of your seat for any reason other than violence or misconduct ought to be grounds for refund - at least partial, IMO. I realize this woman didn't pay for her seats, but somebody did.

I feel thats a stretch. Then every one who smoked, went to the bathroom and got a beer should only pay for the "time" they use the seat. Actually, maybe someone should suggest that to stadium. Rent a seat for 12 minutes at a time. :)

dionysia

08-10-2005, 08:03 AM

BTB

08-10-2005, 08:03 AM

BTB - well, your child is also peeing his pants, should I do that as well --at the table???

Yep, my DD is an avowed pants-peer. She likes pooing even better - usually makes her smile. If you'd like to have a little pee-in and join her, by all means, have at it. Wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

There's lots of people with incontinence problems, pg ladies with temporary ones, apparently the Black-Eyed Peas lady, plenty of older adults have permanent issues. I personally guarantee you've occupied seats in your life previously enjoyed by adults with diapers.

They have tvs in the designated area

Right. Because that lady paid a lot of money for tickets to get the same experience she could've had on her couch?

taraw

08-10-2005, 08:04 AM

...You have a PLACE in the stadium to go.... why can't you go there? and its NOT the bathroom and its ALL yours :) ... Gilette Stadium is VERY nice..... and they have a nice little area for you to feed. Whats the big deal, why can't she go there... ?

The article you posted states that the designated areas are "bathrooms or first aid stations". You are making it sound like they have this nice little lounge for bf moms, but from the article it doesn't sound like that is the case. I have never been to that stadium, so I personally don't know. In any case, it doesn't matter. You are more likely to see more of the cheerleader's breast, then the breast of the women next to you nursing.

Little Angel '77

08-10-2005, 08:04 AM

katmg

08-10-2005, 08:04 AM

This women has her feathers ruffled because *gasp* she must get up and go to an area that the stadium asks her to BFed. just like the area we ask she change the childs diaper.

IMO, that's still putting the needs of others above the needs of the babe.

As a society, we tend to get peeved when parents don't pay attention to the needs of their children. (They're screaming in public, they're being destructive, etc.) But when a mom simply wants to do the natural thing and nurse her child we freak out about it. Strange.

greenbunny

08-10-2005, 08:04 AM

andrew&shannah

08-10-2005, 08:05 AM

Additionally, there are many people (I am not one of them) who are offended by bottle feeding. Should bottle feeding moms be banished to the DESIGNATED room, just so people aren't uncomfortable?

This is ridiculous. I have never seen a body part exposed during bottle feeding. The whole argument (and reason for their being a special place for breastfeeding) is over the fact that many times, whether intentionally or not, the breast is exposed during breastfeeding and that is not appropriate in all situations. If so, we'd all be able to run around with our breasts bare everywhere.
It isn't the act of eating that offends people or makes them uncomfortable, it is the display of the breast that comes along with the feeding.

lawyerlee

08-10-2005, 08:06 AM

I feel thats a stretch. Then every one who smoked, went to the bathroom and got a beer should only pay for the "time" they use the seat. Actually, maybe someone should suggest that to stadium. Rent a seat for 12 minutes at a time. :)
The difference is that it is that person's choice to miss out on seeing the game live. The mother is not allowed a choice because she is being told she is not allowed to do something in her seat that there isn't any real obstacle to her doing.

lawyerlee

08-10-2005, 08:07 AM

mommycal

08-10-2005, 08:08 AM

While I have problems with the woman in the article's feeling of entitlement and the rewarding of it by getting a free ticket, I am embarassed by the fact that MA does not have a law protecting the right to breastfeed in public. Di

There is an interesting fact in American baby about the best cities in the country and BOSTON is the highst and one w/most breastfeeding support in the US.

There are 34 branches of La Leche League and a HUGE support BFing network. Guess thats' why in the entire 14 months I've nursed my child, I've NEVER had an issue feeding her when ever I felt like it. And I plan on doing the same once baby #2 arrives.

All I have to say is thank goodness for a free country that I can nurse pretty much whenever I feel like it as long as I'm not running around naked. :p

lawyerlee

08-10-2005, 08:09 AM

The woman about whom the article was written seems like an attention-grubbing media whore. It's a shame that she's using her child in such a fashion. I think that her entitlement issues are more of a problem than the actual BFing.
I agree completely. I don't understand why she thought she shouldn't have to pay for the ticket for the baby like everyone else if she wanted to bring the baby.

katmg

08-10-2005, 08:09 AM

The woman about whom the article was written seems like an attention-grubbing media whore. It's a shame that she's using her child in such a fashion. I think that her entitlement issues are more of a problem than the actual BFing.

I am also uncomfortable with public BFing that is not discreet. But anyone who says so gets the "if you're not with us, you're against us" Bush-like parent smackdown.

If I'm honest, it does weird me out a bit when I see a woman BFing in public. I haven't BF (don't have kids yet) so I don't know how to react. Do I look away, do I not look away? But, I know that the mom is not doing it to weird me out. She's doing it to feed her child and get on with her life. My reaction is what needs to change, not her actions.

dionysia

08-10-2005, 08:10 AM

Mommycal:
More reasons why it's amazing to me that such legislation has not been passed here.

Di

mommycal

08-10-2005, 08:11 AM

Mommycal:
More reasons why it's amazing to me that such legislation has not been passed here.

Di

ITA, I just RECENTLY found that out and was in complete shock! Maybe there isn't a "need" for it since most peopel in MA are pretty open and ok with?

thedoorchick

08-10-2005, 08:12 AM

This is ridiculous. I have never seen a body part exposed during bottle feeding. The whole argument (and reason for their being a special place for breastfeeding) is over the fact that many times, whether intentionally or not, the breast is exposed during breastfeeding and that is not appropriate in all situations. If so, we'd all be able to run around with our breasts bare everywhere.
It isn't the act of eating that offends people or makes them uncomfortable, it is the display of the breast that comes along with the feeding.

It's ridiculous to you (and, frankly, a bit ridiculous to me), but not to some people. Bottles are equally as offensive to them as breasts are to you.

Everybody is offended by something.

IrisHope

08-10-2005, 08:13 AM

You can go on being uncomfortable and I will continue breastfeeding in public. I hope you can get over it but if you can't I guess you will be the one not enjoying the game.

dionysia

08-10-2005, 08:14 AM

ITA, I just RECENTLY found that out and was in complete shock! Maybe there isn't a "need" for it since most peopel in MA are pretty open and ok with?That's entirely possible, however I remember reading that one state legislator proposes such a bill every term (?) and it never passes.

Di

BTB

08-10-2005, 08:17 AM

It isn't the act of eating that offends people or makes them uncomfortable, it is the display of the breast that comes along with the feeding.

Oh, fer cryin' out loud.

"Display of the breast?" Puh-leeze. It's not a display, it's a tiny sliver of flesh showing, usually not even that. As someone wise once said in this exact same thread a month ago, "if you're seeing nipple, you're looking WAY too hard."

This is an NFL game, with prancing cheerleaders, and we've got our panties twisted over a tiny slice of flesh? It's August - did you look around at what your fellow game-watchers were wearing? Did you police the ladies in too-low tank tops?

Face it - it's not the flesh flashing. Breasts are "on display" all the time. It's cultural squeamishness at seeing a breast used for it's intended purpose which, it turns out, is actually not selling beer.

mommycal

08-10-2005, 08:19 AM

dionysia, I've emailed my LL leader who I'm fairly close with to find out more details. Are you from Boston?

RileyMom

08-10-2005, 08:20 AM

BTB, you rock. :)

Little Angel '77

08-10-2005, 08:21 AM

They have a couple bills on the hill right now, waiting to go infront of congress.

greenbunny

08-10-2005, 08:23 AM

Ignoring the discreet breastfeeding altogether:

If a woman is exposing her breast at a mall to breastfeed her child, I can walk away. If it's in a restaurant, I can turn around or ask to be moved. But if I am in my seat at a football game, or a concert, or the movies, it isn't as easy. The fact that I have that one tiny seat as my domain for that paid event is what makes the difference to me.

The mothers in this thread who are offended are probably all doing it in a discreet fashion, and therefore can't see what the uproar is about. But I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about the women who just whip up their shirt and sit there topless. I don't see them often, but it does happen every now and then.

IrisHope

08-10-2005, 08:23 AM

I am a vegetarian and I really think restaurants should have a room where all meat eaters go.

paiger

08-10-2005, 08:25 AM

as long as I'm not running around naked. :p
It seems to me that you are much more likely to see a person streaking than a whole boob while someone is breastfeeding :p!!

To me as a non-BFing woman addressing, the occasional child who does cause for a little more breast to be exposed during BFing is not nearly as bad as what some women are wearing these days (including cheerleaders) in order to show as much flesh as possible.

It seems to me that instead of harping on BFing mom's, you go after the FCC to get all pictures of these women taken off the public airwaves. Or, even better, we should require all women to be covered head to toe in order to keep from showing 'boob'.

taraw

08-10-2005, 08:26 AM

...Face it - it's not the flesh flashing. Breasts are "on display" all the time. It's cultural squeamishness at seeing a breast used for it's intended purpose which, it turns out, is actually not selling beer.

LOL! I totally agree!

Lydia

08-10-2005, 08:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lydia
... It SHOULD be an adults only event, IMHO!

Why in the world should a football game be adults only? I am sure there are a lot of people who bring older children. Why are some children allowed and not others? You have no idea how difficult it can be to leave your child for long periods of time when you are nursing. Should this women hire a baby sitter then go to the game without her child only to get totally engorged and have to pump in a public restroom to relieve herself only because you don't think she should have the right to nurse in public? Or should this mother stay home and not go to a football game that she loves to go to because you feel uncomfortable sitting next to her?

Ummm...yes I do know how difficult it is. My DD is 4 months old and is excusively breastfed. I'm guessing everything after the 1st three sentences of your paragraph is not directed at me b/c I do NIP. I have gone to events without her and even an all day/night bachelorette party and I fitted the pumping in around the day's events. It can be done.

I personally don't like to see boob (my own or anyone else's) in public and I empathize with others who feel the same. But I won't compromise my child's eating and I nurse anywhere I damn well please!

My family is so not used to BFing and they all thought it was so weird when I started. Once, at a family party, I went upstairs to nurse and as I could hear the party going on downstairs I felt sad that I was missing out. Little Angel, I hope you can see the other side of the fence. :-)

andrew&shannah

08-10-2005, 08:28 AM

The mothers in this thread who are offended are probably all doing it in a discreet fashion, and therefore can't see what the uproar is about. But I'm not talking about them, I'm talking about the women who just whip up their shirt and sit there topless. I don't see them often, but it does happen every now and then.

Exactly! I am not talking about the woman who show a sliver of skin. I am referring to the ones whose nipples and entire boobs are showing. Just yesterday I experienced this. She was not being discreet and only showing a sliver of skin. She had her entire breast...nipple and all exposed. That is what makes me uncomfortable. I don't think you can compare that to a low cut shirt that shows cleavage...

BTB

08-10-2005, 08:30 AM

I am referring to the ones whose nipples and entire boobs are showing.

If your entire breast is showing, I'm not sure what you're doing, but it's not breastfeeding.

It's not easy to get the hang of, but step 1 is nipple into baby's mouth.

sparkle&shine

08-10-2005, 08:30 AM

It isn't the act of eating that offends people or makes them uncomfortable, it is the display of the breast that comes along with the feeding.

Okay I see the following pic is okay and would be fine for the game since she isn't 'Feeding a baby':

http://www.farandulas.com/archives/pam5.jpg

But these pics are offensive - especially the one where *gasp* the top of her breast is showing?
http://www.breastnotes.com/picts/breastfeeding.jpg

http://www.sshosp.org/med_services/maternity/sc_nursery/photos/breastfeeding.jpg

I just don't understand that when a woman is showing breasts by doing what they were meant to do it makes people uncomfortable but by showing cleavage to look 'sexy' that is okay.

wendalah

08-10-2005, 08:33 AM

Two thoughts:
1) I'd rather have a crying baby next to me at a sporting event than next to me on a plane or quiet restaurant.
2) Please, not the "eat your lunch in the bathroom" argument--I hate this--babies stick their fingers up their butts, eat out of the dog's bowl, eat their own boogers...they don't give a hoo-ha about where they eat their lunch.

wendalah

08-10-2005, 08:38 AM

BTW, fine with NIP, I could care less.
But babies are NOT ADULTS and I'm sick of the comparison to adults. Yes, adults don't eat on a schedule. Yes, they don't eat in the bathroom. Et al. Well, babies don't walk, bathe themselves, dress themselves, drive cars, or earn an living. I adore babies but please, comparing them and their needs/sense of reality to adults drives me nuts.

BTB

08-10-2005, 08:39 AM

they don't give a hoo-ha about where they eat their lunch.

I don't agree with this premise, but I don't have to for it to be bunk. As soon as all the bottlefeeding moms are sent to the bathroom to feed their kids - and go quietly - I'll quietly join them.

wendalah

08-10-2005, 08:41 AM

BTB, my point is, the mother cares. The kid doesn't care. Give me a hungry child and I will bet my stock portfolio the kid will nurse/take a bottle in a pile of pig poop. If the mom is uncomfortable, fine, that's a reason to be upset. I just have an issue with the "why should my child eat in the bathroom?" It's silly to me. Say, "Why should I have to stand here and smell farts and pee?"

IrisHope

08-10-2005, 08:43 AM

Wend, my daughter also wouldn't mind eating dog poop. I am the one who makes the decisions and I don't think eating in a bathroom is where I want her to eat.

It screams second-class citizen to me. Her rights shouldn't be violated so you can be more comfortable.

BTB

08-10-2005, 08:46 AM

Come meet my DD, and hand over your stocks! :D

Some kids are pickier than others. Some moms are pickier than others. And I agree the bathroom thing is often more about mom's comfort than the babe's. But so what? Why does that make it okay to ship her and babe off to the bathroom?

This past weekend I BF'd DD while sitting on the floor of a bathroom. The toilets had no lids and I'm left to wonder: should I plunk down clothed? I'm no germ-phobe, but it just felt weird. (BTW I'm not a hover-peer). ;) Or should I pull my pants down to feed DD? I just sat on the floor. I was uncomfortable, and she didn't eat well. The ONLY reason I did that is because this was in a church, the one place my great state doesn't give me carte blanche to NIP.

Breastfeeding is great for kids, and great for moms. Formula feeding is inferior food via an inferior delivery system. Why should our culture make what is already not always easy even harder? If we send bottlefeeding moms to the bathroom, then and only then is it remotely right to send breastfeeding moms there too. Anything else is our cultures' desire to see breasts reserved for men, not babies.

wendalah

08-10-2005, 08:49 AM

What if it was a really nice bathroom, like the Four Seasons or something?
The child is not going to remember eating in a bathroom, regardless. It's not going to scar his/her Ivy League potential. Like I said, I think it's about the mother's comfort, and I fully support that, as I really wouldn't want to have to hang out in a gross bathroom any longer than I had to. I am down with that--it's not fair to the mom. I just personally think it's disingenuous to pose it on behalf of the baby, who doesn't care.

ETA: I don't think your DD was not eating well because of her location per se. She wasn't eating well because you were not comfortable. I'm just making the point that a baby does not look around herself, think "Oh, fiddlesticks, this squalor is making me lose my appetite!"

IrisHope

08-10-2005, 08:50 AM

Wend I do understand what you mean. I just have a habit of making the same decisions for my DD that I would make for myself.

deliciousjones

08-10-2005, 08:51 AM

wendalah

08-10-2005, 08:52 AM

I just have a habit of making the same decisions for my DD that I would make for myself.

Be careful with that. I see you have a glass of wine in your hand ;).

BTB

08-10-2005, 08:53 AM

What if it was a really nice bathroom, like the Four Seasons or something?

You can put a necklace on a sow... a bathroom is a bathroom is a bathroom. Shit don't stink less when surrounded by marble and gold leaf.

My point is, the "the bathroom sucks" argument is but one of many good ones why people who get all flustered over NIP should take a long hard look at why they're so uncomfortable with it. Sparklenshine's pics are fabulous. Why is one okay, and the other triggers what - 12 pages, in a couple hours?

IrisHope

08-10-2005, 08:55 AM

Wend, there are many things that my daughter wound't *mind* doing that I just wouldn't allow. I find it degrating and I would never put her in a situation like that.

Lydia

08-10-2005, 08:56 AM

What if it was a really nice bathroom,

There is some statistic out there that talks about what happens when a toilet flushes...like millions of particles from the toilet come flying out for several feet. That's why people are advised to store toothbrushes in cases or in their cabinets. Not a place I'd want to eat.

I have never nursed in a public restroom and hopefully won't have to! :D

BTB

08-10-2005, 08:58 AM

BTB:
Can you expound on this?
The ONLY reason I did that is because this was in a church, the one place my great state doesn't give me carte blanche to NIP.
There are tons of nursing mamas at my parish who nurse during Mass. I didn't know it was a no-no?

Happily. :)

Illinois lets a mom BF wherever, whenever, so long as she's not trespassing, no matter how much breast and/or nipple she shows or doesn't show in the process... with ONE exception. If in a house of worship, she is to "comport herself with it's norms".

I was at the dedication of my niece on Sunday, in a church I'd never been to before, and asked my sister what flies and doesn't fly around there. She is a huge BF supporter - BF'd said niece until niece weaned herself at age 2 - and looked quite pained to tell me it would be frowned upon. Okay, that I'll respect. It's the law. It's a stupid law, but it's the law. Off we went.

I'm originally from WI, and hope to be back there soon... my references to that may've given the impression I'm in a different state than I currently am?

wendalah

08-10-2005, 08:59 AM

I'm down with the mother being uncomfortable...and as I said, NIP is fine with me, I don't care, I am not prudish about that kind of thing. (I went topless in Tahiti this spring and I have also been to several nude beaches...LOL...my boobs aren't anything people haven't seen a billion times before, nor are anyone else's boobs.)

However, on a practical note, I don't think it's terribly helpful to NIP's cause to personify babies in an adult manner. That's all. Carry on!

BTB

08-10-2005, 09:02 AM

It's a stupid law

To clarify what I mean by this, because I otherwise *heart* Gov Blagojevich's mostly awesome legislation:

I can't imagine the Creator is all upset by bare breasts and babies, since the whole thing was His/Her idea in the first place.

But people get so offended, so whatever. I follow the law. :)

deliciousjones

08-10-2005, 09:02 AM

BTB, thanks for the explanation. I never knew that about churches. I'm in Wisconsin and I'm unsure if we have a law similar, but I guess that the norms of my church are pro-breastfeeding!

kimthebride

08-10-2005, 09:06 AM

I am not fond of strangers seeing my boobs, yet I am fond of BFing my son.

I am not fond of seeing strangers' nipples, yet am supportive of them BFing.

However...I know I want to do it someplace I am comfortable. And quite frankly, 99% of all public bathrooms gross. me. out. Even when I use my Hooter Hider to protect DS from the microscopic nasties that fly around at every flush, it skeeves me out.

I just find it unfair that I don't have more options to NIP, even when I am completely covered up by my HH.

BTW: this is how covered I am when I NIP:
http://www.bebeaulait.com/gallery/8.jpg

wendalah

08-10-2005, 09:08 AM

Hooter Hider! That is RAD! I'm laughing at my desk right now...what a great name.

greenbunny

08-10-2005, 09:09 AM

Regarding those pictures posted by sparkle&shine:

If I saw someone with as much breast showing as Pam Anderson is showing in that picture, I would be very uncomfortable. It would also make me go off on a "what's with kids these days" tangent, after which I would have a panic attack about turning into my mother.

The second picture, showing the whole breast, would also make me uncomfortable if I saw it in public. But this would not cause me to go off on a tangent about anything.

The third picture I find very discreet and have no issue with.

As far as why it's okay to show breasts to be sexy and not for BFing, I don't feel that way. I feel seeing a certain amount of the breast is disconcerting, no matter what the particular purpose for showing it is. If someone is wearing a slightly skimpy V-neck, and next to her is a BFing mom showing the exact same amount of breast, I have no issue with either of them. It's when aureoles are flying all over and the majority of the breast is coming out that I get uncomfortable.

ETA: The hooter hider looks very classy. I would not be at all uncomfortable if someone were using that, and I'd probably thank them for doing so.

Little Angel '77

08-10-2005, 09:12 AM

Ok, can I make a comparision??? People are missing the point here, that we are uncomfortable with breast feeding.... I am sorry, I just don't want to see it.

I have said it before, its not the act of breastfeeding.....
Its doing it around me in public, in a place that I came to enjoy an event or dinner... when YOU HAVE the option to get up to feed your offspring in another area making the people around you happy and keeping their comfort level the same........I don't want to see it. I am sorry......

It was awesome that the person at the part went upstairs to feed the child. Thank you. All the people at the party were proably THRILLED!!!! I am sorry you had to miss part of the party, but you had a child and you make sacrfices for that child and missing ten to twenty or however many minutes it takes to feed them is what YOU signed up to do. I did NOT sign up to be near you when you do it, and I should not have to change my lifestyle for something YOU NEED to do. I DON"T NEED TO DO ANYHTING. I need to go on and ENJOY my time at the party/game/dinner... without being uncomfortable with someone doing something they could do in private. You are in public, and if I wanted to watch/be around/be near someone BF'ed I would go to a maternity ward!

Someone who needs insuline injections.... I would hope to god they would do those else where! If I am at a game and someone shoots up.....I am going to VERY uncomfortable with that too....

There is just a time and place for everything, and people who BF'ed (the ra ra... I am women hear me roar ones) feel that they should be able to do it WHERE EVER and WHENEVER they need to. I strongly disagree. Thats my point, there is a time and a place for everything. Honestly, I think this is awesome. Why can't more people do this?!
http://www.bebeaulait.com/gallery/8.jpg
This in public would be ok with me.

Honestly, BF'ed ... watching others do it.... is a huge pet peeve of mine, I can't tell you WHY it bothers me.... It just really does, and I would like not to be around it when its open display.

momama.. sorry... I loved it., I had to have it :) I tried to find another one, but it was perfect :)

Come on... Sox fans need to stick together. I am off to the game friday night!

momama

08-10-2005, 09:17 AM

Well, she should have to pay for the ticket. Its the stadiums policy. I'm sure people would start bringing their 3-4-5 year olds with the idea "they'll just sit on my lap." If its policy, its policy. No bending the rules.

As for having to pay extra for a seat? Its not that easy. I'm certain that the seats next to her were already sold. Should the baby sit on the other end of the stadium? Likely why she returned her tix.

Getting free seats - lucky.

As for the OP hating Fenway Park well, stop buying tix then, so my DH & I can purchase some. ;-) (we'd bring our daughter, too.)

As for the issue of BFing in public...... it seems your "issue" is her being discreet about it. Um, how do you know she wasn't????? And, if she wasn't... why do you care? Were you actually sitting next to her, or is this just a generalization?

momama

08-10-2005, 09:19 AM

You stole my avatar. Thats not considerate, either. :p

kimthebride

08-10-2005, 09:19 AM

So if I sat next to you in my Hooter Hider and you listerally saw no flesh, no baby, heard no sucking, saw no milk, you'd still be offended?

I'm not a BF-flag waving maniac, but I also know how to feed my child in public without grossing people out.

I personally think that cursing like a sailor, making out, getting piss-drunk and talking about your very personal life should all be done in private, too. Doesn't mean people are going to stop doing it in public, just means I need to understand that people are people and we need to all be a little more tolerant of each other to get along.

Little Angel '77

08-10-2005, 09:21 AM

Marisa

08-10-2005, 09:25 AM

This kind of talk is confusing me:

I don't think it's terribly helpful to NIP's cause to personify babies

Um, babies *are* people. Very very small people.

Whether we treat them as such doesn't change the fact that they are. And some of us believe that every action we take as parents, no matter how young they are, has some impact on how they turn out when they're larger people.

Just saying.

LittleFredPunkinHead

08-10-2005, 09:25 AM

Little Angel, I think people are getting your point. I just doubt that many people think your desire not to see someone breastfeed should trump someone's right to feed their child. If it was a venue where no food or drink was allowed, that would be one thing, but clearly, that's not the case.

Y'know, I don't personally want to see someone breastfeeding, but I think women should be able to do it whereever they need to. I don't want to see someone wearing a toupee- it makes me uncomfortable. But jeez- that's my issue.

ssstephanie

08-10-2005, 09:26 AM

New to this thread

LittleAngel77: I am with you. I hate seeing women whip out a teet at restaurants, the mall, etc. I have never known any woman to openly BF at a party or family gathering either, thank God. All of my cousins, aunts, friends, etc. take it upstairs or in a private area. There's nothing wrong with that, take a friend or family member with you to pass the time if you're bored and sad.

IWhen I go to the Women's Lounge at any Nordstrom in this country, I am thrilled to see mothers nicely covered up and Bf'ing their babies. What a refreshing sight. I smile warmly each time I see them because I appreciate their being mindful and respectful of others.

lml41981

08-10-2005, 09:34 AM

Someone who needs insuline injections.... I would hope to god they would do those else where! If I am at a game and someone shoots up.....I am going to VERY uncomfortable with that too....
Little Angel '77, I talk with my endocrinologist today about insulin injections. I'll be sure to ask him if he thinks I ought to take time getting to a bathroom or a private place to give myself injections or if he thinks I ought to do it wherever I am. I really have no idea how this whole insulin thing works. I'll let that decision be between my doctor and me, though. I'll be damned if I'll take your feelings into consideration when it is my health. It isn't like I'll be "shooting up" heroin. :mad:

greenbunny

08-10-2005, 09:36 AM

This kind of talk is confusing me:

Um, babies *are* people. Very very small people.

Whether we treat them as such doesn't change the fact that they are. And some of us believe that every action we take as parents, no matter how young they are, has some impact on how they turn out when they're larger people.

Just saying.

I think she meant instead that people were giving them adult sensibilities and mindsets, when they in fact do not have them. Sensitivity to the morals and mores of bathroom etiquette is not something babies experience, else they would not relieve themselves inside their clothing.

wendalah

08-10-2005, 09:36 AM

Um, babies *are* people. Very very small people.

Really! I didn't know that!
Sorry to be a chump. But my point was personifying in an adult manner, which is very different from calling babies hamsters.

ETA thank you Greenbunny. I'm a hair grumpy today, coming down with a cold.

deliciousjones

08-10-2005, 09:37 AM

amew

08-10-2005, 09:37 AM

I hate seeing women whip out a teet at restaurants, the mall, etc.

Do people seriously see women "whip out a teet?" I frequent malls, restaurants, grocery stores, etc. as much as the next person, and I have never seen a nursing mother do anything that even approaches what I picture when I hear that phrase. I do occassionally see a woman with a baby pressed against her chest who I can only assume is nursing, but honestly, without looking a whole lot more closely than I generally look at stranger's chests, I can't see a thing.

dionysia

08-10-2005, 09:38 AM

dionysia, I've emailed my LL leader who I'm fairly close with to find out more details. Are you from Boston?Yup! I live in MetroWest. :)

Ah, here we go!

http://news.bostonherald.com/localPolitics/view.bg?articleid=96060

State Rep. David Linsky (D-Natick) has filed a bill for a third time that would prevent police from charging women for breast-feeding in public and prevent people from booting them from public places. Linsky filed the bill in 2000 and again in 2002, but it stalled both times.

and

State Sen. Susan Fargo (D-Lincoln) has a bill pending that would allow women to breast-feed in any public or private location. The bill would also require employers to give employees unpaid break times to express milk and provide them with a private room. Fargo first filed the bill in 2002, but it too stalled.

I'm not quite sure what 'stalled' means...

Di

greenbunny

08-10-2005, 09:39 AM

So if I sat next to you in my Hooter Hider and you listerally saw no flesh, no baby, heard no sucking, saw no milk, you'd still be offended?

I wouldn't be, I can't speak for Alicia.

I personally think that cursing like a sailor, making out, getting piss-drunk and talking about your very personal life should all be done in private, too. Doesn't mean people are going to stop doing it in public, just means I need to understand that people are people and we need to all be a little more tolerant of each other to get along.

Interestingly, though, several of those behaviors are already legally regulated. So doing them in public is technically punishable, though not always followed through on.

ETA: amew, I have, several times, seen a woman strip off her shirt up to her shoulders to breastfeed in public. So she was sitting there with her shirt only around her neck and her breasts fully exposed. Since she only had one baby with her, the other nipple was in full view. This isn't common, I've seen in maybe four times in the past ten years. But it does make me very uncomfortable.

dionysia

08-10-2005, 09:42 AM

They have a couple bills on the hill right now, waiting to go infront of congress.Did you mean Beacon Hill or Capitol Hill? Because if it's the former, then you mean "go in front (sic) of the State Legislature."

Di

greenbunny

08-10-2005, 09:43 AM

Lil Angel:

People DO get what you're trying to say - they're hearing you loud and clear. They just don't agree with you. I think that by overexplaining yourself (and consequently offending others more and more), you're just digging yourself a deeper hole.

I have to say, I don't see how she's digging a hole. She's entitled to her opinion, though it's certain to be unpopular with the mother crowd.

IrisHope

08-10-2005, 09:47 AM

and some non-mothers too

kam

08-10-2005, 09:51 AM

Do people seriously see women "whip out a teet?"

Yup. I saw someone fully exposed, with the other breast in full view, under the guise of "breastfeeding". Now, as BTB, obviously there was something more to that as it doesn't take one's fully exposing both breasts in order to breastfeed, but I think there has to be some understanding that while YOU may not do this, others do. I personally think they aren't doing it to nourish their baby rather than try to get some attention but I am surprised people are actually shocked that this happens.

I would say that I miss about 90% of the public breastfeeding because of the discretion many mothers use. My SIL breastfed and went into another room because it creeped her out with her father and her brother in the room. So I guess I notice when someone is not only less than discreet but appears to be trying to make a scene and then say "What? I can't feed my child?" Unless there are twins or the child has two mouths, then I'd say no to that.

My problem with this discussion is that it seems that folks are saying "all breastfeeding in public, good" and "all breastfeeding in public, bad". Believe it or not, not everyone is as courteous, understanding and thoughtful as you may think. There are those who can't stand any type of breastfeeding, but I think most folks can understand it to a point. There are those who breastfeed in public, but I think there are a very few who make it into something it's not.

dionysia

08-10-2005, 09:55 AM

I have to say, I don't see how she's digging a hole.I think it's fair to say that her statement of wishing people who have to inject insulin would go elsewhere to do so was digging a hole. Maybe she also wishes my mom would go elsewhere if $DEITY forbid she had to use an epi-pen[1] to attempt to stop a potentially fatal allergy attack? Anaphylactic shock, anyone? It ain't pretty and neither is someone going into a diabetic coma.

As for the Hooter Hider, I can't think of anything that screams "I'M BREASTFEEDING!!!" louder. Discreet my foot.

[1]: an Epi-pen is an autoinjector of epinephrine (i.e., adrenaline).

Di

Lydia

08-10-2005, 09:56 AM

As for the Hooter Hider, I can't think of anything that screams "I'M BREASTFEEDING!!!" louder. Discreet my foot.

Di

LOL! Especially when they're cherry print! (See the link in my sig)

dionysia

08-10-2005, 09:58 AM

LOL! Especially when they're cherry print! (See the link in my sig)Ooh! A Tryndy Hooter Hider! Do they sell them at Hot Topic? :p

Di

LittleFredPunkinHead

08-10-2005, 09:58 AM

Oooh... You know what I'd like to see... A hooter hider with pictures of Pam Anderson's cleavage on it. How discombobulating would that be?

Lydia

08-10-2005, 09:59 AM

I've been trying to think of a good (original) name for my creations. Hooter Hider is taken. My mother suggested Ti++y Tent. Ummm...no.

LOL!

IrisHope

08-10-2005, 10:00 AM

Oooh... You know what I'd like to see... A hooter hider with pictures of Pam Anderson's cleavage on it. How discombobulating would that be?

Littlefred, LOLOL

kam

08-10-2005, 10:00 AM

A hooter hider with pictures of Pam Anderson's cleavage on it. How discombobulating would that be?

Imagine Pam with that on? She would so find a way to show her breasts with that thing on.

So this would be like the apron with a picture of a girl in a bikini, yes?

IrisHope

08-10-2005, 10:00 AM

"Stop looking at my tits" holder

dionysia

08-10-2005, 10:01 AM

Oooh... You know what I'd like to see... A hooter hider with pictures of Pam Anderson's cleavage on it. How discombobulating would that be?Don't you mean "discomBOOBulating?" :D

Di

ssstephanie

08-10-2005, 10:03 AM

Do people seriously see women "whip out a teet?" I frequent malls, restaurants, grocery stores, etc. as much as the next person, and I have never seen a nursing mother do anything that even approaches what I picture when I hear that phrase. I do occassionally see a woman with a baby pressed against her chest who I can only assume is nursing, but honestly, without looking a whole lot more closely than I generally look at stranger's chests, I can't see a thing.

The phrase was mostly for emphasis, but I still back up my words 100%. In no way do I mean it in a hateful or inconsiderate manner though. ;)

wendalah

08-10-2005, 10:06 AM

I've been trying to think of a good (original) name for my creations. Hooter Hider is taken. My mother suggested Ti++y Tent. Ummm...no.

How about Rack Rider?

suzubeane

08-10-2005, 10:12 AM

I was at a restuarant, and a women was at the table next to me, feeding her child ...Whenever there's a thread about nursing in public, someone always tells an anecdote about having been in a restaurant near someone half undressed, or having seen someone "whip out a teet" at the mall.

You know what? I'm not buying.

I'll be 42 in a few weeks, and I've been a mother/step-mother for 17 years. I live in New England's second largest city, worked summers in Boston while in college, and I grew up in New York City where I worked in food service while in High School.

If anyone were likely to have seen a nursing exhibitionist by now, I think I'd be high up on that list … but I never have. Never. Not once, and not anything remotely similar.

Does this mean it doesn't happen? No – it just means that I doubt it happens with the frequency many would like you to believe it does. Maybe people think it helps prove their anti-NIP point, but to me, it lacks credibility, and detracts from the argument.

Witty Username

08-10-2005, 10:13 AM

I have to say, I don't see how she's digging a hole. She's entitled to her opinion, though it's certain to be unpopular with the mother crowd.

You're right she certainly is entitled to her opinion but I agree with every explanation the hole gets deeper.

The bottom line is - if in a situation where food and drink are permitted, breastfeeding should also be permitted, regardless of your comfort level.

Lots of things make me uncomfortable for a variety of reasons, but at no time do I feel my comfort should trump their right to the same freedoms I have.

Should we have separate rooms for burn victims to eat in because it breaks my heart and makes me uncomfortable? No.

taraw

08-10-2005, 10:15 AM

Oooh... You know what I'd like to see... A hooter hider with pictures of Pam Anderson's cleavage on it. How discombobulating would that be?

This is hilarious!! THAT I would buy!

pocket

08-10-2005, 10:16 AM

Lil' Angel -

With the vast amount of things you are uncomfortable with I just don't think it's realistic for other people to try to accomodate you. I'm not saying you need to be more comfortable with NIP, nipples, injections etc. Just that other people may have different squeamish levels. And you do not get to set that standard because you are uncomfortable with the way that babies eat. This is just how they eat. You don't get to set the standards of behavior in a public place because you are uncomfortable with something. What seems like an obvious behavior standard to you is actually only your own opinion, your own upbringing, and your squeamishness.

I am however a big fan of adult space for adults, and children who know how to act in public places. As I get closer to having kids myself I have really started to notice - no shocker here - that horrible people often have horrible children and horrible dogs.

taraw

08-10-2005, 10:16 AM

I've been trying to think of a good (original) name for my creations. Hooter Hider is taken. My mother suggested Ti++y Tent. Ummm...no.

LOL!

"Cover Your Cans!"

RileyMom

08-10-2005, 10:16 AM

I have to say, maybe its the area I live in, but I have NEVER, EVER seen a breastfeeding mom with her shirt up to her neck or stripped off completey, braless, with both boobs hanging out for the world to see while the babe is nursing on just one side. Honestly. Does this kind of thing happen sooooo frequently that it warrants a monster thread of several pages to talk about it? I think this is an example of using a couple of extreme cases to make a point and it doesn't really fly with me. Sorry.

I tried the blanket cover-up thing when I was nursing. My DD HATED it. She would rip at it and pull it right off of us. It actually made us more of a spectacle trying to manuever the blanket, latch her on, keep her from pulling the blanket off, etc. It was much easier to just ditch it altogether.

greenbunny

08-10-2005, 10:19 AM

I think it's fair to say that her statement of wishing people who have to inject insulin would go elsewhere to do so was digging a hole. Maybe she also wishes my mom would go elsewhere if $DEITY forbid she had to use an epi-pen[1] to attempt to stop a potentially fatal allergy attack? Anaphylactic shock, anyone? It ain't pretty and neither is someone going into a diabetic coma.

As for the Hooter Hider, I can't think of anything that screams "I'M BREASTFEEDING!!!" louder. Discreet my foot.

[1]: an Epi-pen is an autoinjector of epinephrine (i.e., adrenaline).

Di

You're talking about an emergency life event, though. I mean, is someone who freaks out at the sight of blood going to start verbally thrasing people at the scene of a car accident? A planned situation, like BFing or giving yourself an insulin injection on a regular basis, isn't quite the same thing.

I do think someone with a needle phobia who asked said diabetic to turn away from them would be lambasted less than someone who is made uncomfortable by BFing. People get so defensive about anything having to do with their children.

I still disagree that saying she's "digging a hole" is appropriate. It implies she's in the wrong for feeling the way she does.

suzubeane, you are right that it is probably not common to see BFing done blantantly; as I mentioned before I've only seen it done that way maybe 4 times in 10 years. But I think the people who do such things are often people who seek attention and controversy, and the woman in that news article does seem like that type of person. Since the thread began based on that article, I would expect that type of behavior to be the issue being discussed.

pocket

08-10-2005, 10:20 AM

I see lots of women NIP around here - SF Bay Area. Some cover with a scarf, some don't.

saathei

08-10-2005, 10:26 AM

I have twins, and I nurse them. Since I've never really gotten the hang of tandem nursing, I nurse them one at a time; thus, I spend twice as much time nursing as the average mom. I have a baby on my boob about 65-75% of the time.

Thus, if I were to avoid nursing in front of people, I would have to avoid people altogether. If I'm invited to a get-together, I'm going to nurse. Going someplace else while I'm nursing means that I miss most of the event, in which case, why bother even going? (Pumping is not an option. I pump twice as long to get half as much.)

Discretion is something that's difficult to legislate. Just saying a woman should "be discreet" leads to all sorts of different interpretations, but how do you enforce "X square inches" or something? In addition, by making hard rules for what is acceptable and what is not, you may end up making it possible for A-cup women to NIP and impossible for F-cup women.

Irish Elf

08-10-2005, 10:26 AM

I've never been to a sporting event where I paid more attention to the people next to me than to the game itself. Sorry, but maybe the person next to you is uncomfortable with how you keep looking over at her in a judgemental way. maybe everyone should mind their own business more and it wouldn't matter if someone was BF or not.

I asked DH his opinion on BIP - his response: depends on what the boob looks like. Someone is getting bread and water for dinner. :rolleyes: On a serious note. He is very uncomfortable with seeing a woman BF. But he is more uncomfortable with the alternative (BF in a restroom, hot car, etc). he knows it's his hang-up and his has the option to look away or walk away. Just b/c he's uncomfortable doesn't mean a woman shouldn't be able to do it.

kam

08-10-2005, 10:26 AM

suzubeane, you are right that it is probably not common to see BFing done blantantly; as I mentioned before I've only seen it done that way maybe 4 times in 10 years. But I think the people who do such things are often people who seek attention and controversy, and the woman in that news article does seem like that type of person.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have to say, maybe its the area I live in, but I have NEVER, EVER seen a breastfeeding mom with her shirt up to her neck or stripped off completey, braless, with both boobs hanging out for the world to see while the babe is nursing on just one side. Honestly. Does this kind of thing happen sooooo frequently that it warrants a monster thread of several pages to talk about it? I think this is an example of using a couple of extreme cases to make a point and it doesn't really fly with me. Sorry.

Agree with greenbunny here. Someone asked if they've ever seen it and I indicated I have. I think everyone, including the mothers at the same table as the woman doing this, were as shocked as we were. Does that indicate a growing trend of breastfeeding moms being, on the whole, more inconsiderate and exhibitionist? Nope. Just people finding more creative ways to use something to make it all about them, perhaps.

Darlene&Scott

08-10-2005, 10:27 AM

As a society, we tend to get peeved when parents don't pay attention to the needs of their children. (They're screaming in public, they're being destructive, etc.) But when a mom simply wants to do the natural thing and nurse her child we freak out about it. Strange.

That's because we're in a patriarchal society and the men that run things are wild to see things that promote their oppourtunity to procreate (like cleavaged cheerleaders, short skirts, and makeup) but once an offspring is created (a baby) they lose interest in seeing the result of procreation. They get irritated at other peoples offspring, especially when they have none of their own or don't have a partner for the oppourtunity to have offspring.

For example, men that are at a game without their wives want to see the cheerleaders but are irritated by someone's child being a child and reminding them that even though they came to the game to experience escapism from their daily grind of a life (even if they are fathers themselves) there are still calls to reality around them.

People that are not bothered by public nursing (I don't care as long as there's a little blanket over the baby to give it some calm within an exciting place with things to distract it like a game) generally have kids themselves and can relate to a kid's needs. People that do not have young kids in their families are less likely to relate and find their call to real life an irritant.

I mean games like that are so loud and so much is going on that I wouldn't know if two people next to me peed their pants, no less someone nursing their baby (unless it was a sunny day and that boob was so white that it literally reflected sunlight like a mirror :eek: ) :D

saathei

08-10-2005, 10:27 AM

I tried the blanket cover-up thing when I was nursing. My DD HATED it. She would rip at it and pull it right off of us. It actually made us more of a spectacle trying to manuever the blanket, latch her on, keep her from pulling the blanket off, etc. It was much easier to just ditch it altogether.

Ditto, x2.

lml41981

08-10-2005, 10:29 AM

You're talking about an emergency life event, though. I mean, is someone who freaks out at the sight of blood going to start verbally thrasing people at the scene of a car accident? A planned situation, like BFing or giving yourself an insulin injection on a regular basis, isn't quite the same thing.

I do think someone with a needle phobia who asked said diabetic to turn away from them would be lambasted less than someone who is made umcomfortable by BFing. People get so defensive about anything having to do with their children.
Again, I don't know how the whole insulin thing works...I'll find out around 3:30 today... I don't know if it is time-sensitive that I get insulin at a moment's notice or if I will generally have time to get up and go elsewhere. I do know that, IMO, my health trumps someone else's squeamishness about needles. Hell, *I* am a needle-phobe and I'm going to have to be doing this. If people can't be compassionate about the health needs of others, then...well...they can go somewhere warm.

BTB

08-10-2005, 10:29 AM

People are missing the point here, that we are uncomfortable with breast feeding.... I am sorry, I just don't want to see it.

No, I totally get your point. Here's mine:

I'm not going to spend my life running around and asking everyone near me if they're ok with whatever I'm going to do next. My own life is too short and too precious to me.

Ok, so, you're uncomfortable. Why should I have to do anything about that?

I'm not some heinous witch who doesn't care about your feelings. I care. But I'm not going to change my life to suit yours. Where would it end?

Do you want me to give you a list of things I'm uncomfortable with? Would that make you willing not do those things near me? Maybe we should all print out our lists and hand them in at the stadium door. What would be left on the list, that no one is offended by? We'd all have to give up and stay home.

greenbunny

08-10-2005, 10:30 AM

FTR, I don't think breast-feeding should be legislated at all. I just wish that those who do so in a non-discreet fashion would reconsider.

But I think creating laws about this sort of thing is too militant.

Edit: lml, best of luck to you.

I, personally, would think that someone needing to give themselves an injection would want to move away from a crowd merely for their own safety. Getting jostled or bumped while using a needle is definitely not good.

dionysia

08-10-2005, 10:31 AM

You're talking about an emergency life event, though. I mean, is someone who freaks out at the sight of blood going to start verbally thrasing people at the scene of a car accident? A planned situation, like BFing or giving yourself an insulin injection on a regular basis, isn't quite the same thing.But sometimes an insulin injection or BFing is NOT a planned event.

Which is more disruptive for all parties:
- baby screaming at the top of his/her lungs, Mom gathers up her gear, has to make 6 people stand up, she and Bebe climb over them, she's blocking the game, baby is still crying, she goes up the bleachers, into the covered portion of the stadium, baby still screaming, and into the loo.
OR
- baby is screaming, less than 2 minutes later, there is silence b/c Mom is nursing.

Or to use the insulin example:
- person feels dizzy and realizes that his/her blood sugar is low. Damn! S/he doesn't have any food or drink to help with this, so s/he needs to inject his/herself. Again, get up, walk over several people, up the bleachers, all the time dizzy, just to get into the bathroom to inject?
OR
- person feels dizzy, takes out self-injector and less than 2 minutes later, his/her blood sugar is stabilized?

Di

greenbunny

08-10-2005, 10:35 AM

Di, I don't really see a problem with what you're saying. My issue is more along the lines of:

Mom is breastfeeding child without drawing attention to herself
vs.
Mom is breastfeeding fully exposed, being militant about her right to do so, inviting argument and creating controversy about it.

I have yet to see someone do something similar with a diabetic injection. If someone were to stand on his chair, wave around his needle, bend over, and give himself an injection in his exposed backside, then I would consider that a similar situation.

IrisHope

08-10-2005, 10:37 AM

greenbunny, I get what you're saying. I agree that mothers should do their best to expose themselves minimally.

vikib

08-10-2005, 10:45 AM

As a mom of an infant and a toddler and season tickets to baseball and hockey I'd have to say I disagree with the need to purchase a ticket for an infant. Really my DD does not need a seat since she doesn't sit in it. Most people if they're going to a game do not bring out all the arsenal that goes along with having children (and if they do they sit in an area that allows for that space - the Padres have a park) I bring a diaper bag the size of a small back pack and when she fit in it I brought DD in a soft carrier (bjorn) and she didn't leave the carrier, I wore it the whole game. My DS, the toddler, does not sit in a seat himself either, he's too short to see the game sitting in a seat so he also sits on a lap, so I can't see purchasing a seat for him, but if they required it I might.

As for the BF issue. I too am uncomfortable if someone exposes themselves in public, but BF, which is for the most part done discreetly (I've yet to see boob or nipple) is just fine with me. I've BF my DS at a baseball game. I did leave my seat since there just wasn't enough room to do it in the seat, but if someone can do it in the seat discreetly then why not? They aren't in your personal space, they're in their own. If I'd need more room I'd use my DH's seat space rather than the person on the other side of me because I wouldn't like it if someone took up my seat space, but just doing it next to me, whatever.

Oh, and my DS and DD have done fine at baseball games, my DD actually takes a nap sometimes. And my DS loves both. My DD hasn't been old enough to experience hockey yet. ;)

About changing a diaper on a plane. If I can get up and change a diaper in the bathroom (which is a bear in itself - there's no changing table in there and its cramped with just one person in there let alone 2!) then I'll go in the bathroom. BUT if the fasten seat belt is illuminated and my DS or DD has just pooped and its going to get everywhere if I don't change it, then YES I'll do it in the seat, away from other people looking, but that's the only choice I have. So far I haven't had to do that, luckily.

lml41981

08-10-2005, 10:46 AM

I think everyone would prefer that moms who breastfeed expose as little flesh as possible. That just makes it easier for other moms to breastfeed without getting a bad name.

(Di, I'm not sure, but I think insulin is only given when blood sugar is too high. Sugar would be given when blood sugar is too low, I think...)

Elizabeth

08-10-2005, 10:54 AM

That's because we're in a patriarchal society and the men that run things are wild to see things that promote their oppourtunity to procreate (like cleavaged cheerleaders, short skirts, and makeup) but once an offspring is created (a baby) they lose interest in seeing the result of procreation. They get irritated at other peoples offspring, especially when they have none of their own or don't have a partner for the oppourtunity to have offspring.

I don't think they get *irritated* because it's annoying, I think they get *uncomfortable* because it's arousing. Unlike scantily clad cheerleaders, which everyone expects to be arousing.

greenbunny

08-10-2005, 10:55 AM

That's a really insightful point, Elizabeth. I'd love to see a comparison of women's reactions to public BFing versus men's reactions to public BFing (or even include lesbians, to be fully fair and technical about it).

wendalah

08-10-2005, 11:07 AM

I don't think they get *irritated* because it's annoying, I think they get *uncomfortable* because it's arousing. Unlike scantily clad cheerleaders, which everyone expects to be arousing.

Good point, I agree.

Jazz

08-10-2005, 11:09 AM

Discretion is something that's difficult to legislate. Just saying a woman should "be discreet" leads to all sorts of different interpretations, but how do you enforce "X square inches" or something? In addition, by making hard rules for what is acceptable and what is not, you may end up making it possible for A-cup women to NIP and impossible for F-cup women.

Yeah, I agree with saathei here. I'm not a mom and am fine with NIP, however it happens. The "it's okay with me if you're discreet" argument bugs me. Things are either okay and we trust each other to be adults or they are not okay. I don't like trying to carve out a middle ground with disclaimers that make an activity a-okay for absolutely everyone.

If a mama is not "discreet", it seems most likely that she's trying to get the hang of nursing in which case we just need to leave her alone (and she will likely ultimately be more "discreet"). Some have described cases where a mama seems to be "indiscreet" for the attention. In which case, don't give her the attention, and don't lump her in with all the other NIP mamas. Just move along.

SiValleySteph

08-10-2005, 11:17 AM

I took my 2 month old to an NFL game. We were at Qwest field which does not require you to purchase a ticket for kids under 2. We did not purchase a ticket for my baby. He slept almost the enitre game. I honestly can't remember if I NIP at the game, but I'm reasonably sure I must have at least once. I must be one of *those* moms. :D

I have never used a Hooter Hider and never will. I have at times tried to cover my baby with a blanket to feed him. Didn't work and was annoying.

Seriously, this is a tired debate. I don't understand people who think NIP is so horrible. I think we can all agree that it would be weird and uncomfortable to see someone with their entire top off to breastfeed. But surely this is an extreme exception and one I've never witnessed. I hardly ever see people NIP. I've come to the conclusion it's becuase it's really not that obvious when someone is nursing. And I'm looking for it because I'm a nursing mom and I want to feel like I'm not the only one!

I NIP all the time. Still do now that he's a 10 month old. NIP on the plane last night. I'm sure if someone stared intently at my boob for the entire time, they would have glipsed a shot of nip when my son de-latched. I don't feel like I need to be concerned about someone feeling uncomfortable for that split second possible nipple flash. And I am a courteous person. :)

DiscoDiva

08-10-2005, 11:22 AM

It should be called a "Booby Blanket"!

I have to ask, what is this about Fergie peeing her pants in concert? I must have more info! (sorry I brought this up 4 pages later...)

dionysia

08-10-2005, 11:22 AM

(Di, I'm not sure, but I think insulin is only given when blood sugar is too high. Sugar would be given when blood sugar is too low, I think...)You're probably right, my bad.

Hopefully the point of my example isn't lost, even if my explanation was faulty! ;)

Di

Elizabeth

08-10-2005, 11:23 AM

Good point, I agree.

Hi Wendalah! Cool! we agree about something! ;)

lml41981

08-10-2005, 11:29 AM

I have to ask, what is this about Fergie peeing her pants in concert? I must have more info! (sorry I brought this up 4 pages later...)
Well, Little Angel '77 said BTB's baby pees her pants at the table and should she pee her pants, too? I responded to that comment (though not directed toward me) and said that lately I pee my pants a little bit when I sneeze and that she's more than welcome to pee her pants, if she'd like cause it would make me more comfortable. Then, HB mentioned that Fergie of the Black Eyed Peas peed her pants on stage during a concert. I didn't know that, but I think you ought to pull a Fergie and pee your pants at the next wedding you DJ. :)

Di - no, I don't think your point was lost. I think the point was, "Do what you need to do as long as it doesn't hurt anybody else or endanger anybody else and leave other people alone to do the same," right?

amorey

08-10-2005, 11:36 AM

More info on Fergie with pics at http://comms.planetsidesyndicate.com/showthread.php?t=2237

lawyergirl25

08-10-2005, 11:40 AM

I know I should never wander into threads that start "I know this thread is going to catch fire..." but here I am anyway.

I'm uncomfortable with NIP - but it's my issue. And I think the only way I'm going to get over my stupid and childish queasiness is with time. For some reason, thinking about it being natural or a great bonding experience doesn't make me feel any better.

It was something that was always done in the back bedroom at family parties or in the bathroom at church (sorry, BTB, that sounds darn uncomfortable). So I think I grew up thinking it was something to keep private and hush-hush. Now when I see a woman NIP'ing, I get distracted and have to remind myself that there's nothing wrong with it. I think that's really sad. I need to be re-programmed! I think a lot of society does, to be honest.

ETA: amorey, that is funny! Kinda gross, but funny. :)

BTB

08-10-2005, 11:49 AM

I'm uncomfortable with NIP - but it's my issue.

Wow - in a good way. I have the utmost respect for that. :)

In a diverse society, people are going to be made uncomfortable by different things. Since we've talked so much about restaurants, it bodyslams my appetite to see and hear someone chomping away with their mouth open, gabbing as little foodbits fall back onto the table. I see that way more than I see NIP. Should I get to play dictator and banish such people to a dark room in the back?

Nah. 'Cuz it ain't all about me. If I'm gonna leave the house, I'm gonna run into people doing things I'd rather they not do. But that doesn't for a second give me any right to stop them. (I'm assuming we're talking about legal things, here.)

BethIrish

08-10-2005, 12:22 PM

Personally, I'd rather have a Mom NIP than listen to a hungry baby scream! If the baby is hungry and needs to be fed - then feed it. Nurse it, give it a bottle...whatever. Who am I to tell someone they can't feed their child in front of me? No, I don't want to see boob, but most nursing Moms I know want to be very discrete about it.

That said, I really don't like seeing 2-3-4 year olds walking up to Mom and pulling her shirt up for a drink. (I saw this happen on a city bus more than once - same family.) Honestly, it freaks me out. But really, that's my problem, not theirs.

kimthebride

08-10-2005, 12:52 PM

1. Fergie Peeing: frickin hilarious. gross, but hilarious. thanks for the link.

2. Hooter Hiders Not Being Discreet: I NIP at a funeral home in the lounge area near the restrooms and had about a dozen people walk by or up to me. A few actually stopped to chat and asked me where Thomas was, and I had to point out to them that he was under the HH eating. I think that is discretion!

3. What to Name The Nursing Blanket: Boulder Blocker, Mama Bib, Milk Magnet, Distreet Teat Sheet, Teat Towel, Boobie Blanky, The NIPster

4. Seeing A Teat: I've seen this. But today I was impressed - in BRU I saw a woman walking holding a BFing baby on one arm while shopping with the other. I saw no nip at all.

dionysia

08-10-2005, 01:06 PM

Kim,

I have to ask.

WTH did they think the tent on your torso was??

Di

ptrecluse

08-10-2005, 01:13 PM

I nursed my daughter everywhere I went but I always covered up myself. Mainly because I am way shy to allow my boob to be seen by strangers. I nursed on a plane when DD was a month old, no one said anything. I also nursed at Scoma's but again I kept it covered and it really appeared that I was trying to get DD to sleep. I really tried not to draw attention to myself.

I have seen ladies with older children who are still nursed at 18-24 months where the child went and pulled up the moms shirt and nursed themselves. That bothered me a bit or when a lady will just whip out her breast without regard to where she is or who is present. I think discretion and respect should always play a role in whatever we as adults do.

*** lawyerlee: fwiw I think the mod's are doing a great job and think the tone of this place is wonderful compared to you know where.

~PT

Hangin'in

08-10-2005, 01:34 PM

I'm not a mother, so I have no first hand experience with NIP. It does not bother me in the least to see someone NIP.

Actually the only time I have ever even raised an eyebrow was when I was working in Macy's Dept. store, and I had been talking to a little girl, she told me she was 4 yrs old. Her mom came out of the dressing room, and this little girl told her that she was hungry. Mom sits down in the chair, and does have to expose most of her breast... but the part I was uncomfortable with was the fact that the child told her mom which breast she wanted to drink from.

I might get flamed, but I think a child is too old to breast feed when they can carry on a conversation in full sentences, and tell Mom which breast is best.

kimthebride

08-10-2005, 01:35 PM

Di-
I have the dark one and was wearing all black, so it didn't really stand out. I was sitting on a couch BFing, and my son was small enough that his legs weren't sticking out from under it.

PG-rated

08-10-2005, 01:47 PM

I might get flamed, but I think a child is too old to breast feed when they can carry on a conversation in full sentences, and tell Mom which breast is best.
Well, I'll disagree that s/he's "too old" to breastfeed, but s/he IS too old to be doing it in public.

In general I think that once your child is eating solid food ("adult" food, that is), the whole argument of him/her "needing" to eat goes out the window, and you really can't insist that it's your "right" to breastfeed in public anymore.

dionysia

08-10-2005, 01:48 PM

Kim-

Ah, that makes sense!

I was trying to envision a large white canvas rectangle somehow being camouflaged. ;)

Di

Elizabeth

08-10-2005, 02:11 PM

Mom sits down in the chair, and does have to expose most of her breast... but the part I was uncomfortable with was the fact that the child told her mom which breast she wanted to drink from.

Ew! Ew ew ew ew.

Camdynlyn

08-10-2005, 02:19 PM

I wanted to jump in and say that I agree with the OP, I have no problem at all with BFing mothers. I think it is the most natural thing you could do and beautiful; however, I DO NOT want to see other's NIP. I know it is natural and all but I would rather see someone covering up as much as possible than displaying their NIP openly. Slightly pulling up the shirt or using a coverup is much better than hauling out the boob.

BTW, I am *very* proud of my boobs, as most of you know but I do not want to have my child BFing on display when I decide to do it.

So, yes, BF all you want (beside me if you are doing it discretly) but do not do it in a flashy way.

dionysia

08-10-2005, 02:45 PM

The problem is, what's 'discreet' to one may be 'flashy' and 'whipping out the boob' to others. What works for an A cup may not work for a DD cup (or not as much!).

I'd hate to throw the baby out with the bathwater (no pun intended!) because people's definitions of what's 'discreet' differ.

Di

IrishMeg

08-10-2005, 02:58 PM

I'm tired of hearing "I'm okay with breastfeeding as long as you do it discreetly." What is discreetly? Who gets to decide what discreetly is? And who are you(general you) to tell me what discreetly is? It really isn't any of your business how I breastfeed. It's my body and my child.

For those of us who are nonmoms(myself included) I wonder if we are more preoccupied with "discretion" because we haven't experienced pregnancy, birth, and breastfeeding. I have to think that after being pregnant for 9 months(where your body essentially belongs to someone else ), giving birth(having the most private parts on display for several hours), and having someone suck on your boobs for hours at a time may change what you view as being modest or discreet. Maybe after we experience all of that, discretion and modesty just won't seem as important anymore. I really believe that after we push an 8 lb baby out of our vaginas in front of doctors, nurses and our family we wouldn't really care if a flash of boob happens in the grocery store.

Just my opinion.

BTB

08-10-2005, 03:11 PM

I know it is natural and all but I would rather see someone covering up as much as possible than displaying their NIP openly. Slightly pulling up the shirt or using a coverup is much better than hauling out the boob... So, yes, BF all you want (beside me if you are doing it discretly) but do not do it in a flashy way.

Camdynlyn, when's your avatar going to cover up? ;)

I'm tired of hearing "I'm okay with breastfeeding as long as you do it discreetly."

Ditto. It's like saying - "I'm openminded and not squeamish, and supportive of mothers breastfeeding... so long as I can pretend they're not."

If a mom is BFing in a "flashy" way, there are two possible reasons. Someone else (apologies to whomever) already laid this out so well:

1) She's either a new mom, feeling like she's all thumbs and working hard to provide superior food for her child, in which case, cut her some slack, or

2) She's trying to get a rise out of you, for whatever reason. Ignore it, and it won't be "fun".

I don't think there are very women out there who sincerely are after #2.

PG-rated

08-10-2005, 03:15 PM

I'm tired of hearing "I'm okay with breastfeeding as long as you do it discreetly." What is discreetly? Who gets to decide what discreetly is? And who are you(general you) to tell me what discreetly is? It really isn't any of your business how I breastfeed. It's my body and my child.
Well, I think many/most people won't think twice about a woman who is clearly making some effort not to flash strangers. That's discreet, as far as I'm concerned. And I agree that there should NOT be laws/restrictions/regulations about breastfeeding in public, but common courtesy for other people says that you should also recognize that you're in a public place and continue to behave accordingly. If the "it's my body" rule held for all public behaviors, society would be even worse off than it is now. :) Yes, some people will be offended no matter what you do. Screw 'em. Those people will always find something to be offended by. But that doesn't mean that we can all just do whatever the hell we want.

villanelle75

08-10-2005, 03:30 PM

I have no probelms at all with NIP, and that's probably surprising since I admitedly don't care all that much for babies and I'm the first to get annoyed what what I consider to be out-of-control children disrupt experiences (like dining, movie going, etc.) for me. Or maybe it's not surprising since I'm thrilled if a crying baby can be soothed into silence by a breast or anything else, whether I may get a flash of the good or not.

But I really am curious as to why so many mom's seem so militantly against discretion. I don't think it shoudl eb legislated, but I also dont' see why, knowing it make some people higly uncomfortbale, there is such a refusal from some moms, to make the effort to be a tad more descreet, or why the mear suggestion that some discretion when NIP is a good thing makes some people so upset.

There are so many things in life that people have varying comfort levels about, and it seems like the decent, sensitive thing to make accomidations when reasonable. Why is it asking so much (in the views of some) to ask NIPers to do the same? If the blanket on baby's head doesn't work, fine. But if it does work with you and your child, why is so terrible about doing that out of respect for others?

For an example other the NIP, I think people are way to hung up on sex and nudity. When I'm at my best friend's house, I'll change clothes in front of her and her husband because I know none of us could care less about it. But I also know that many people do care, so I'd never change into my jammies in the living room of a person I thought might not be 100% okay with it, especially because there is an easy alternative. I want to be sensitive to other people's issues, even if I don''t agree with the reasons why they have those issues in the first place. It seems like an unnecessary inconvenience to wait for three other girls to finish with the bathroom so I can have my turn to chaneg in there, but I'll do it out of respect for the feelings of others because it really is a fairly small thing.

So I'm curious as to why it's so offensive to some people when someone suggests you be sensitive to someone else's issues and make some accomidations. It seems like some of you are willing to do this, to the extent that those accomidations are a nuisance rather than an absolute PITA that just isn't practical, but that others of you aren't even willing to take that step, and I have trouble understanding why that is?

Witty Username

08-10-2005, 04:03 PM

villanelle75 - I think it's more a reaction to someone stating that a bf'ing baby is ruining their dinner/sports watching/plane ride and that they should "go somewhere else" if they're going to do that.

I don't think any of the mom's in this thread are militantly against discretion, I think they've all stated otherwise. Unless you're suggesting that the only way to be discreet is to breastfeed in the bathroom, then yes they'll probably find that offensive.

Camdynlyn - I DO NOT want to see other's NIP. I know it is natural and all but I would rather see someone covering up as much as possible than displaying their NIP openly.

By "their NIP" do you mean their 'nipple'? Because I think in this thread NIP is the abbreviation for Nursing in Public, which does not mean they would be "displaying" it openly.

trefoil

08-10-2005, 04:04 PM

Ditto to vilanelle75. Well, I don't change clothes in front of my best friend's husband, but "ditto" to the rest of it. ;)

Yes, in some areas, you have the right to be indiscreet while breastfeeding. In many areas, people also have the right to use impolite language in front of your children. IMO, consideration for the people around you would be a good thing in both situations. No, people don't have to be considerate and, yes, they can say, "I'll do whatever I want. If you don't like it, it's your problem." It just makes for an unpleasant society.

I don't think I've ever seen a woman breastfeeding in public without discretion. Some people have. I'm not going to dismiss their experiences simply because I haven't shared them. Since the majority of women are discreet while breastfeeding in public, it seems strange to me that there is such an outcry from mothers, most of whom were statistically likely to have been discreet while breastfeeding, that discretion shouldn't be used. Again, this isn't about the "right" to do something. It's about consideration.

As for the woman in the original article not wanting to pay for an extra seat, she has no sympathy from me. I don't care whether or not a sporting arena requires tickets for children, but I do respect their right to set their own rules, regardless if their rules suit my preferences.

Elizabeth

08-10-2005, 04:11 PM

Vilanelle, I agree with a lot of your points, but

When I'm at my best friend's house, I'll change clothes in front of her and her husband because I know none of us could care less about it.

Really??? Maybe it's just me, but I would so not be okay with one of my friends changing in front of my husband.

amew

08-10-2005, 04:25 PM

Since the majority of women are discreet while breastfeeding in public, it seems strange to me that there is such an outcry from mothers, most of whom were statistically likely to have been discreet while breastfeeding, that discretion shouldn't be used.

I don't think any mothers in this thread have argued that discretion shouldn't be used, just that it shouldn't be legislated, that discretion itself is very subjective, and that complete discretion isn't always possible. Frankly, I think most people in this thread, nursing moms and many of those uncomfortable with nursing alike, agree that nursing mothers should use reasonable efforts to be discreet but that some subjective notion of discretion should not be a legal requirement. The only comments most of the moms on this thread have taken issue with are comments suggesting that breastfeeding shouldn't be done in public at all, that moms and their infants have no business at a public sporting event (or other public space), or that discretion requires retreating to a bathroom or otherwise removing oneself from the main event. Maybe the disagreement lies with the definition of discretion. I consider pulling ones shirt up or down as little as necessary to nurse comfortably, possibly covering with a blanket or sling if the child will tolerate it, and replacing one's clothing immediately after the baby finishes nursing to be exercising discretion. In 28 years, I have yet to see a woman nurse publically in what I consider to be an indiscreet manner (though I am sure it happens on very rare occassions). Obviously others believe that discretion requires more.

amew

08-10-2005, 04:31 PM

Really??? Maybe it's just me, but I would so not be okay with one of my friends changing in front of my husband.

In college my friends changed in front of my husband (then boyfriend) all the time. Once half my college sorority sunbathed topless on the roof of a beach house we were renting while my husband hung out with us (he was the only guy there). He still tells his friends that sitting there while 25 women stripped off their swimsuit tops was among the highlights of his life. Never bothered me, but I can see where it would bother others. Can't imagine my friends would strip down in front of him anymore though.

Elizabeth

08-10-2005, 04:37 PM

He still tells his friends that sitting there while 25 women stripped off their swimsuit tops was among the highlights of his life. Never bothered me, but I can see where it would bother others. Can't imagine my friends would strip down in front of him anymore though.

:eek: Wow! You're some kind of woman!

BTB

08-10-2005, 04:44 PM

And I agree that there should NOT be laws/restrictions/regulations about breastfeeding in public

This has been said more than once and I'm not sure what it's supposed to mean.

Is it trying to say that there should not be laws PERMITTING breastfeeding in public?

Or that there should not be laws PROHIBITING it?

villanelle75

08-10-2005, 04:48 PM

Don't worry. Elizabeth, if you invite me over for dinner, I promise to stay fully dressed. Pinkie swear! A group of friends and I put together a Girls' Club where we meet every 6 weeks for a full day of some activity or another. Since we usually end up doing something that requires changign clothes, they joke that it's not an official Girls' Club meeting until they've seen me partly naked.

I've absolutely gone topless in fron of now-DH's (at the time, FH) friends adn one of my favorite stories from whe we were dating involed just that. DH was still in flight school at the time and his roomrate's girlfriend and I were all on the topless on the beach in Corpus Christi, TX. SHortly after DH showed up (he had class and was late), she and I decided to go into the ocean to cool off. Just when we got in the water up to about our knees, a training Search and rescue helicopter full of Coast Guard student pilots flew over, fairly low. She and I waved. Two heads pooped out of the back, and another head leaned out the side of the co-pilot's seat. Next thing we knew, they circled back around, lowered their altitude, and took another pass. One of DH's friends took a picture at that point and it ended up on the wall of the wardroom (like a military breakroom) of DH's training squadron. (Our backs were to the camera.) It was so hilarious. You'd think those poor flight students had never seen breasts before!

I

wendalah

08-10-2005, 04:58 PM

Um...friends changing in front of my DH. It depends on the friend. I have a few goofball friends who I've known forever, like all my life, who might do it...and it wouldn't bother me because DH would think it was hilarious, not sexy. He doesn't find any of my girlfriends attractive. Pretty, but they're like sisters to him.

suzubeane

08-10-2005, 05:04 PM

I'd hate to throw the baby out with the bathwater (no pun intended!) because people's definitions of what's 'discreet' differ.Yes, and aternatively, there is only one thing that can be defined as "not looking."

Interesting, huh?

BethIrish

08-10-2005, 05:43 PM

/off topic/ I'd change in front of DH's friends and I honestly wouldn't care if my girlfriends changed in front of DH. We're all a pretty open and carefree group. I love our friends for just that - we're comfortable in our own skin and comfortable with our friendships. Plus, it probably helps that none of us would really be considered 'shy' ;) /off topic/

BTB, I always read that as there shouldn't be laws restricting BF in publie ie. it should be allowed w/o restriction.

Toonces

08-10-2005, 06:01 PM

For those of us who are nonmoms(myself included) I wonder if we are more preoccupied with "discretion" because we haven't experienced pregnancy, birth, and breastfeeding. I have to think that after being pregnant for 9 months(where your body essentially belongs to someone else ), giving birth(having the most private parts on display for several hours), and having someone suck on your boobs for hours at a time may change what you view as being modest or discreet. Maybe after we experience all of that, discretion and modesty just won't seem as important anymore. I really believe that after we push an 8 lb baby out of our vaginas in front of doctors, nurses and our family we wouldn't really care if a flash of boob happens in the grocery store. Just my opinion.

IrishMeg ~ For someone who hasn't had a baby yet, you sure are right on target with what you wrote above. I never thought I'd NIP until after I went through the above. I'm a lot more open minded about a lot of things now that I've had a baby, NIP included. I didn't have the foresight that you have before I went through all of that.

I don't have any problems with a mom nursing a child of any age in public. If she's not being discreet, according to how I define discretion, then all I have to do is not look. I've been to mommy and baby movies where there are moms sitting on either side of me, nursing their babies, and I don't look at their breasts, whether they're covered up with a blanket or not. It's pretty simple - I don't want to see another woman's breast/nipple so I don't look. I nurse my DD in public on a regular basis. I figure if someone sees something that offends them (with regard to NIP), then they're looking too hard. Honestly, I'm likely to see more of a woman's breast at a beach than I am if someone is NIP. I think most people in the US are way too hung up on breasts as sexual objects and that's what causes most peoples' discomfort.

Camdynlyn

08-10-2005, 06:20 PM

Camdynlyn, when's your avatar going to cover up? ;)

I warned y'all that I was proud of my boobs! ;) I normally have no problem with boob showing (yes I get a little uncomfortable if it is people I do not know) but I think women BFing should be a little considerate about BFing. That means, don't throw your shirt up and hand an arm out, but pulling it up to feed, that is fine by me. I know I stare at women BFing not because I am embarassed, but because I can't wait to do it myself.

Camdynlyn

08-10-2005, 06:22 PM

Witty usernamep: Thank you for clearing that up. I was meaning it as nipple. Sorry for the mistake. I was wondering why it was in all caps. Sorry for the confusing!

SNK2004

08-10-2005, 06:55 PM

I have no idea how I found this thread, and I haven't read it all, but I am not at all bothered by breastfeeding. I don't even have a problem with people breastfeeding their 3 year old. Its their choice to make within their own family dynamic. Will I do it? I have no idea!

Like Summer said, I tend to stare at breastfeeding women because I look forward to doing it.

I have training as a Doula (and have taken classes to help women to breastfeed correctly, help mother to help baby with latching on and encourage them to keep trying) so seeing breasts flop out of a shirt- in public or otherwise doesn't bother me.

I was once a nanny for a lady who breast fed her 2 year old and she would completely take off her shirt and let her child play with her free nipple. This, I didn't like to be around. For me it was a little much...

Dally

08-10-2005, 07:02 PM

I'm still only on page 11 of this thread, but I'm already so upset. Don't people realize that such negative attitudes toward BFing are why so many women quit or don't do it at all? "House arrest" is not good for me or the baby, but I am very shy about BFing in public because of people's attitudes. I hate how our society is so obsessed with breasts. :(

For those of you uncomfortable with public BFing, please realize that I am FAR more uncomfortable having strangers look at my breasts than you are looking at them.

So please, have some consideration for my child and me, and, if you happen to see breast while I am trying to discreetly nurse my child, STOP STARING AT MY CHEST. Please be polite and just look away. Can't you do that? Is it really such a hassle? Because believe me, looking away is MUCH easier for you than BFing in public (or trying desperately to go out around feedings or staying stuck in my house) is for me.

And yes, I support the woman's right to BF in her seat. She should be able to quietly feed her child without people staring at her and then criticizing her.

BTB

08-10-2005, 07:13 PM

but I think women BFing should be a little considerate about BFing.

And the general public should show an ounce of consideration in turn. BFing moms should not be made to feel like they're doing something gross, dirty, nasty, or otherwise hide-worthy.

It's a sad day when porn is funny or cute and dirty jokes can be told with aplomb but a woman feeding her child should cover up, already.

BTB

08-10-2005, 07:19 PM

I warned y'all that I was proud of my boobs!

Hey, you gotta get what you paid for, right? :D But are you so proud of your avatar's, too?

It just was so incongruous a page or two back to read you didn't like to see breast when your avatar's showing way more skin than a mom who's babe is feeding.

To paraphrase myself, if I can, from a couple pages ago - if nipple's hanging out, I don't know what you're doing, but it's not breastfeeding. Once the babe's latched properly, you see way less than what your cartoon lady's showing. And if a little bit could possibly be seen during the latch + delatch process - you're looking way too hard!

Dally

08-10-2005, 07:20 PM

Right on, BTB. :)

BTB

08-10-2005, 07:22 PM

Please be polite and just look away. Can't you do that? Is it really such a hassle? Because believe me, looking away is MUCH easier for you than BFing in public (or trying desperately to go out around feedings or staying stuck in my house) is for me.

Superbly put.

And on a related note. I know some of the starers mean well ("that'll be me someday") but I wouldn't know that when I saw I was being stared at. I'd wonder if they were staring in horror or delight - or misinterpret the looks as glares.

bookworm

08-10-2005, 07:22 PM

I can't figure out how to quote two posts at once, but I think the

"women BFing should be a little considerate about BFing" and "the general public should show an ounce of consideration in turn"

are exactly right.

Yeah, it makes me a little uncomfortable, but I don't want anyone to stop. In general, good manners are about making those around you comfortable, and it goes both ways. I'm not suggesting mothers who need to feed their children shouldn't do so--by all means, go ahead. If you need to, and I'm uncomfortable, I'll pretend not to notice so as not to make you uncomfortable.

If we all practiced "make others as comfortable as possible, within reason" I think this would be less of an issue. Those who are "militant" with the glares and "I-challenge-you-to-challenge-me-feeding-my-child" and those who would say "that's digusting, go elsewhere" are equally rude.

But, there are rude people, and we all have to deal with them....

IrishMeg

08-10-2005, 07:31 PM

Great post, Dally!

thyme

08-10-2005, 07:42 PM

I do not care if you NIP, as long as you try to be considerate of the feelings of people such as myself, who don't want to see your entire torso from six inches away. And in return, I will try to be considerate of your feelings -- I will not stare, and I will not make a point of looking away in disgust as though you were torturing kittens, and I will not cuss like a sailor in front of your little widget. Just a little consideration on both sides here.

BTB

08-10-2005, 07:52 PM

who don't want to see your entire torso from six inches away.

You didn't really mean to write inches, did you? Feet, ok. But inches, you're definitely looking too hard. :D

LittleFredPunkinHead

08-10-2005, 08:08 PM

But inches, you're definitely looking too hard.
Sitting in a stadium seat? "Inches" is quite possible.

Camdynlyn

08-10-2005, 08:16 PM

BTB: I am not uncomfortable seeing a little nipple if the baby is trying to latch on. I said I don't want to see a woman taking one arm out of her shirt (like I have seen many times) and then BFing.

About my avatar, I chose it because it fits me pretty well looking wise. As far as BFing. I have no problem with BFing if it is done in a polite manner to those around you. Trying not to bring attention to yourself and giving yourself as much privacy is okay. I just don't want to see someone whipping out the boob and making a scene.

wendalah

08-10-2005, 08:33 PM

Don't people realize that such negative attitudes toward BFing are why so many women quit or don't do it at all?

I think the question is, do people really care?
I don't care if you OR ANYONE breastfeeds. It's an individual choice to make. I truly sympathize with your feeling ostracized in doing an act that is absolutely 100% your right to do, but that's where it ends. I'm not on any BF evangelical trip. If you (general you) want to do it, great. If you (general you) don't, great. The human race will go on regardless.

ETA: And, Camdylyn, if you or any other woman wants to show her boobs off in a sexual manner, I could care less if you do THAT either. They're your boobs. Do what you want with them!

BTB

08-10-2005, 08:38 PM

Littlefred, I admit I'm short, but my eyes are already more than six inches above my breasts. Unless I'm sitting next to someone truly vertically challenged, I'm willing to bet their's will be too. :D

Trying not to bring attention to yourself and giving yourself as much privacy is okay. I just don't want to see someone whipping out the boob and making a scene.

As much privacy as what? And where are all these boob-whippin' mamas? I've never seen a BFer make a scene - I've seen lots of people make a scene over a BFing mother, but none where the mother herself was responsible for the brouhaha.

Seriously, I think there's a huge disconnect here. Sure, there are probably a few exhibitionists out there. But I've never met a single one. Even on the CC's large parenting boards, I've never come across one nursing mom who wants to attract attention BFing. Most NIP with some chagrin, because the only alternatives are "mothers' rooms" (which are often filthy), bathrooms, and we've been there and back this thread, or just not going out, which is not practical for the entire year the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends children receive breastmilk for. The things written in this thread and the things that cross the minds of most nursing moms are just worlds apart. It's really unfortunate.

BTB

08-10-2005, 08:40 PM

I don't care if you OR ANYONE breastfeeds.

If that extends to "near/around me", then awesome, wendalah. That's all nursing moms ask. :)

Dally

08-10-2005, 09:08 PM

wendalah--That's a good point. There are many people who are not concerned about general health matters. I'm so buried in it right now, my perspective is off. I was thinking in terms of people caring about the cost (insurance/taxes for state insured). Because BFing is better for babies, it can lower these costs for all. But even still, I know a lot of people don't care, and that's fine. It wasn't crucial to my main point anyway.

suzubeane

08-11-2005, 03:45 AM

I do not care if you NIP, as long as you try to be considerate of the feelings of people such as myself, who don't want to see your entire torso from six inches away. BTB: I am not uncomfortable seeing a little nipple if the baby is trying to latch on. I said I don't want to see a woman taking one arm out of her shirt (like I have seen many times) and then BFing. Again I have to ask, where are all these exhibitionist nursing Moms? I have lived in major East Coast cities including New York where I grew up. I worked in food service where these mothers are supposed to be throwing their breasts on the table, and I have never, ever seen anything that could be described as "letting a boob hang out."

To those of you who are using this scenario as a way to justify your own discomfort, I just have to repeat: you're doing your argument a tremendous disserve. It goes to creditability. Exhibition while nursing can't possibly be happening enough to be part of the equation here, particularly if those of us who have nursed/are nursing have not noticed it. (We tend to notice.)

Would you believe me if I told you that you might have been near a woman who was nursing and didn't know it? I once nursed while sitting right next to someone who I later realized had not known. How would that scenario factor in?

Women who are bold about showing breast while nursing are the exception – not the rule, and no one here is advocating for the right to nurse topless. Why even bring it up? Unless you're uncomfortable with the whole concept and are just cloaking it in the indiscretion argument.

ETA: if you or any other woman wants to show her boobs off in a sexual manner, I could care less if you do THAT either. They're your boobs. Do what you want with them! I agree. And I'd add "but then don't turn around and try to dictate that others can't do the same."

Just don't look, people.