How do I handle this?

[mrschica]

I got this message from my mother:

Can you talk to your little brother and help him understand the importance of school assignments that come with due dates, and that hiding progress reports from mom is not very smart. He has 4 major finals due this month and he missed turning in 2 already. So next time i call you can you do that for him? Thanks.


My brother will be 11 in August, he goes to a school for gifted and talented children, so he's very bright. He has, however, always had issues with turning in assignments on time. His teachers say that he's always daydreaming, in fact, that's how he was tested and then placed in this school because they figured he wasn't paying attention due to boredom.

Anyway, I don't know if he's still struggling with paying attention and turning in assignments on time because he's too advanced or if it's something else. My mom and his father got separated and divorced two years ago, she had to sell the house and now they rent a condo (my mom has custody). The dad used to see my brother every Sunday, but has slowly cut him out of his life (he has a girlfriend) and sees him maybe once a month, if that. I'm wondering if this might be affecting him even though he and his father have never been close (he takes long business trips for days at a time).

So now my brother is lying and hiding information about assignments he's not doing on time or at all, and his grades suffer because of this, not because he's not smart. He's already doing geometry and algebra, etc. His dream is to be an astronaut and work at NASA, or be a chef. LOL. :D

Anyway, I don't know what I can accomplish by talking to him, I feel like I'll just be another grown-up voice in the background, you know...like in "Peanuts". I really don't know what my mom thinks I can do to help, I suppose she feels at a loss. She's tried grounding him (a month with no video games or internet) and giving him more responsibility so that he can feel good about himself by accomplishing "grown-up" things (like taking out the trash and cleaning up the table, nothing outrageous), so I don't really know what to do to help. I have a six month old and am in baby mode right now, so I haven't read too much about older kids, gifted kids and these particular problems.

Any advice? I guess if I can say something meaningful that might help, I'll do it, I just don't know what exactly.

Thanks.

[phoenics]

Are you married?

If you are, maybe your DH could take him out for a guy-day. It sounds to me like a bunch of women talking about his school stuff could be like Peanuts, but maybe if a male role-model did some purely guy stuff with him, he might open up to him.

It just sounds to me like he needs a role model.

I suspect that seeing his father essentially not hold to his commitments and the like are probably affecting him - he might be wondering why he should be accountable when his father isn't.

If you aren't married, maybe you have some male friends that can help out? Do you live in the area?

Also, have you guys considered Space Camp? Maybe if you go down to where that is and let him see everything and get some of the male scientists (I only say male because I think he needs to see them) explain all about the hard work and about the importance of their work being on time, etc... and then explain all about how tough it is to get into space camp and etc.. It sounds like he needs motivation?

And it sounds like he needs someone to talk to. It must be hard to have your father cutting you out of his life.

[mrschica]

Are you married?

If you are, maybe your DH could take him out for a guy-day. It sounds to me like a bunch of women talking about his school stuff could be like Peanuts, but maybe if a male role-model did some purely guy stuff with him, he might open up to him.

It just sounds to me like he needs a role model.

I suspect that seeing his father essentially not hold to his commitments and the like are probably affecting him - he might be wondering why he should be accountable when his father isn't.

If you aren't married, maybe you have some male friends that can help out? Do you live in the area?

Also, have you guys considered Space Camp? Maybe if you go down to where that is and let him see everything and get some of the male scientists (I only say male because I think he needs to see them) explain all about the hard work and about the importance of their work being on time, etc... and then explain all about how tough it is to get into space camp and etc.. It sounds like he needs motivation?

And it sounds like he needs someone to talk to. It must be hard to have your father cutting you out of his life.

I am married, but DH and I live outside the U.S. right now, unfortunately. My brother has no other male role models...my grandfather doesn't speak english, and his two uncles who do, also live far away (one in Kentucky and the other in Ohio, my brother is in California). The only male he interacts with on a regular basis is my sisters fiance, so maybe I'll let my mom know about it and see if she'll go that route.

I think you're totally right about how his father doesn't complete with his commitments, so why should he feel he has to? Ugh, my mom was so great at picking husbands/fathers. :(

Anyway, space camp would be so great, but I can already hear my mother talking about the cost and being way too paranoid sending him across the country "alone". :rolleyes: I'll mention it anyway and try to convince her, it's a great idea.

If he were my son, I'd definitely send him, he'd love it.

Thank you!

[KristyK]

Mom of an Attention Deficit Disorder child here! A lot of what you are saying sounds like someone with ADD, BUT... your brother is also dealing with a ton of sh*t on his young plate.

Has he ever been diagnosed ADD? Some of his symptoms, like forgetting to turn things in, not doing assignments, daydreaming etc, are typical symptoms of ADD. He's also a boy, and boys do have tendancy to daydream. I had tons of things in place for my son to be reminded to turn in assignments, I spoke with teachers, had lists daily, checked his backpack daily, had daily calendars. None of them ever worked, and I was diligent.

I have to be honest, none of the things his mother has done are wrong, but they most likely won't do any good. If your brother is ADD, he most likely doesn't see consequences in things (and neither did my son), and if he does, he could be at a point in his young life that he really doesn't care.

If he's not ADD, and is just a troubled young boy, then he needs to get some help. His father right now is being a D*ck with a capital D! He needs to be told to take some responsibility for his son and NOT shut him out. Your mother might also want to get him some counseling, and she might also want to notify the school whats going on with his father.

I think your mother is probably at a loss and asking for you to fill his ear because she's frustrated. Believe me, I'm still frustrated and my son hasn't had schoolwork due for a year! But I think what she needs to do most of all is to get him to a counselor, and to make his father be more responsible (I know, easier said than done). I wish you all luck, I went through this for the last 7 years of his school, from 4th grade on with my son, once they start sliding and don't care, its hard to get them out of that!

[kedzieb]

I was similar to your brother in school, as was my younger brother. We always did great on tests but hated the homework/busywork. My least favorite class involved a 'notebook grading' where the teacher collected our notebooks and gave us a grade on the work we did to get to the answer. Hated that!

Anyway, my other brother was completely different from us - always on time with homework, neat notetaker, index card maker. We all got good grades but it was harder for him. But one thing he told me really got through to me. That even if I thought the assignment was stupid or the teacher was more interested in busywork than knowledge, you still have to play the game.

Somehow just admitting that the work was pointless but necessary allowed me to keep my pre-teen superiority complex but stop losing grades for late homework or not showing work. I started playing the game, even if internally I still thought (think ;) ) my teacher was slowing me down.

I'm not excusing your little brother's late work or skipped finals but thought it might help to hear from someone who went through it herself.

[mrschica]

If he's not ADD, and is just a troubled young boy, then he needs to get some help. His father right now is being a D*ck with a capital D! He needs to be told to take some responsibility for his son and NOT shut him out. Your mother might also want to get him some counseling, and she might also want to notify the school whats going on with his father.



Ugh. This is why I sometimes cringe at the blunt responses over in ES given to people seeking support, because I lived my whole life with a parent who at any criticism, breaks down and takes it as a personal attack. I've become used to walking on eggshells around people and trying to be as gentle as possible. :rolleyes: I'm going to tell my mom about putting him in counseling but I absolutely know that she'll cringe at the thought just because it'll look like a failure on her part...like evidence that she effed up. :rolleyes:

I had to put myself into counseling because God knows my mom would've never done it just because her fragile ego couldn't take it, and I was already a pretty messed up person by the time I got there.

Anyway, I'd really like to see her not make that mistake again and withhold the therapy my brother deserves to get past all this.

His dad stepping up to the plate is likely not going to happen a) because he abandoned his first son so I don't see why he won't do it again (and is doing it again actually) and b) the circumstances of their divorce (in other words, him having little to no communication with my brother, via her of course, is her wish come true).

So I think looking for a stable, loving male role model is a good idea and counseling. I know me talking to him isn't going to change things, we've talked about things like this before and it obviously has had no impact.

I love my brother, I don't want to see him waste all of his intelligence away and his life, period.

[Ellyn]

As a teacher, I've seen first hand the exact thing that is happening to your brother. I think sometimes those kids get in so deep with late work/missing assignments that it gets to the point of "why bother"...who cares if my F is a 25% or a 59%.

I agree with the male role model thing. If your mom truly wants you to help, could you call the school and see if they have a mentorship program? I know our school doesn't, but has contacts with males in the community that are willing to help out. Know that he can turn things around. We recently had a boy (who is actually repeating 8th grade :( ) because he was skipping school, smoking/drinking/smoking pot, etc. His father died a few years ago...ever since then that family has been in a downward spiral (sister in high school just had a baby). He recently was connected with a male from the community that is on his butt every chance he gets. This kid has not missed a day of school since he has been around (and he had missed MOST of this school year up until then), the boy is checking in with the teachers about missing/late work, always on time to class, staying out of trouble, etc. The reward: the mentor takes him fishing on the weekends, spends time with him, takes him to ball games, etc. He tells him he's proud of him and treats him like a son - I have never seen this kid cry, and when the mentor told him that he was like a son to him, he started to cry. So that long story was my way of saying it is never too late, call the school and see if they can help connect you with someone, and maybe talk to your brother too...not as an adult, but as his sister.

[Ali]

I think that a simple solution would be to have your mother be in contact with his teachers on a daily basis. She needs to know what the assignments are when they are assigned and when they are due. She needs to make sure he brings the proper materials to and from school. She needs to oversee his progress when he is working on things at home. She needs to make sure he turns things in on time. If he does not, she should be informed of this by his teachers. She may need to make the first step in contacting his instructors and forming a positive working relationship with them.

The schools in my district have most of this information online and parents are given individual access codes in order to log in and see their child's grades on a daily basis. She needs to see if your brother's school system has something similar. His grades and missing assignments should not be a surprise to him and they should not be a surprise to her.

[Scooter]

I have great respect for intuition, and if yours is telling you that he's having trouble adjusting to all the stuff he's going through, then that's the most likely thing. Jumping to the ADD idea bugs me, because everything else should be ruled out first--it's just way overdiagnosed these days. (Yes, some kids do have it, don't get me wrong.)

A few questions have come up for me about your mom's parenting choices, though, from your post. Of course, you said she's ultra sensitive and defensive, so I'm sure that won't go over well. ;) But I'm sure it's just because she's tried so much and is overwhelmed in so many ways. For example, consequences should fit the misbehavior. So if he didn't turn in an assignment, and she thinks he didn't complete it on time--because of too much video gaming, then it makes sense to take away video games for a week. NOT a month, that is really overblown! That builds resentment and doesn't connect the two concepts in his head in any meaningful way. That's more of a punishment, and the purpose of discipline is to teach.

The other thing that caught my eye was asking you to tell him about "the importance of school assignments that come with due dates." That sure sounds like a lecture to me, and honestly who of any age wants to hear that? He'll understand when he's older, maybe, but it's just going about it all backwards. It really needs to be more on his level and more immediate. Just because he can comprehend abstract and complicated ideas doesn't mean his brain is mature enough to have both the insight and motivation to change his longterm habits on his own. An option instead of that could be, "you have to work on your homework ahead of time instead of playing on the internet, and if you don't you won't be able to go online next week." Then look into other similarly concrete ways to support this change, like making sure he has a homework journal where he records all his assignments. If he won't fill it out, make a deal with the teachers that he has to get it signed off everyday to be sure he does it. And then he can't go on the computer each day until he shows your mom that he's completed (or worked on) everything due soon. OTOH, if the issue is he's doing the work but not bringing it to school, your mom could have him start showing her his backpack before he leaves in the morning. Getting his bag checked like a little kid is embarrassing and annoying, but once they do it for several weeks and he hasn't left anything out, he'll have earned the right to stop getting it checked. These are just suggestions from the top of my head, but hopefully you'll see where I'm going with this. It's not permanent, just to help him ease into a new habit.

The counseling suggestion is really the way to go. I think the habit aspect is really a neutral way to approach it with your mom. It's not about her, it's about him having trouble with some of his habits, and a counselor will be able to help him iron these things out. Once she's feeling more open to the idea, you can also add that while he's there it could really help him to talk about some of the changes he's been through the last few years. Not that they've 'messed him up' or anything ;) but more that talking about it to someone else could help him with the "adjustment." (another neutral term!) Often, kids can't really open up to their parents after divorce because they don't want to make their parents feel bad or angry, etc. They feel over-responsible for their parents' emotions. It's really not a bad thing, because if he doesn't want to talk to his mom about it, not only is he age-appropriate but it also shows that he cares for her and doesn't want to see her upset or hurt. Meaning she's done a good job raising a caring son and they have a good relationship. As you can see, there's always another way to look at things; maybe this direction will help you talk to her about it.

[HeatherH]

I agree with those who've said he needs counseling and a male mentor. Lecturing this child about turning in assignments is a waste of time and will be fruitless. Just as taking things away from him and grounding him will not be effective either. This child's spirit is not being nurtured in the way it needs to be, which is likely why he is withdrawn ('daydreaming') and not appearing to care about school.
My DH's father was absent for many years during his upbringing. He had a 'Big Brother' through a mentor program and it helped him tremendously. Perhaps there is a Big Brother program in your brother's region.

[mrschica]

Thanks so much for your insight ladies, truly, I agree with every word.

I talked to my mom and she said she's noticed that my brother loves to spend time with my sisters fiance (they've been together 3 years already) so maybe they can work something out to have one-on-one time. She also said that when my uncle from Kentucky calls, my brother always runs to the phone to talk to him, so she's going to see if my uncle can set up a schedule where he calls him on a regular basis and they can send emails to each other.

I'm going to see if she can do even better than that and hook him up with a mentor program. I myself had a mentor in high school who was a real gem and so I know the value of having one.

I do feel that he shouldn't be getting lectured with the idea that just because he's a gifted and talented child that he has the emotional capacity to cope with all of the difficult changes in his life like losing his father.

I'm approaching my mom in the most gentle way possible about getting him into therapy so she doesn't feel worse than I know she already does, and she thankfully said that she's going to investigate with her insurance to see what options she has.

I'm glad she's taking it better than I had expected (the advice I'm passing on to her), but then again I am being, as I said, as non-confrontational as possible. She does have a very, very low self-esteem and I would like to see her get some help as well just so she doesn't keep projecting herself and it affects her parenting.

Also, she always was on my brother about his work, checking his backpack, homework list, etc. She just had no idea about the school assignments done in class that he was turning in late or not at all because he wasn't taking those home to finish so, now she's going to talk to his teacher about that to make sure they can work something out so she's "in the know".

I hope all of this helps!

[ManteoChik]

I think setting up a mentor program is a great idea, but I wouldn't make it sound like that.

For example, I'm a photographer. I often have people ask me if it would be possible for their child to "shadow" me on shoots because they have an interest in photography. I think if you can find something your brother is interested in, you could find something like that for him to do. For example...does he like animals? Maybe set up some sort of shadow at the humane society or vets office. Something along those lines where it doesn't seem like a "set up".

I also really like the idea of having him be able to spend time with your sister Fiance - if he has the time. Your brother is probably just seeking male guidance - it can be hard to be a boy without a dad around sometimes....especially if you have no other close makes in the family.