Allowance

[emschwar]

We've decided to start giving Noah an allowance. He's really into playmobil and always wants more, and DAMN, those things are expensive, o it's time for him to start saving and contribution his own money rather than just having everything appear from on-high, so to speak.

How much is appropriate for a 4 year old to get? I don't want it to be too much, because I just don't see him needing much money, but at the same time, I want it to be possible for him save up for some of these things, so if we only give him $1/week, it could be the better part of a year before he can buy something.

Also, we're going to start making him do chores, since he's getting an allowance. Allowance won't be dependent on completion of the chores, since doing chores is part of being part of a family (as is his own spending money). Any ideas?

Thanks!

[mamax2]

I have no clue how much Playmobile accessories cost, but I think $1 still seems pretty good for a 4 y.o.! I wouldn't want to give my DD (almost 5, but we don't do allowance yet) much more than that because money burns a hole in her pocket and she'd constantly be looking for ways to spend it, lol!

I'd also come up with ways for him to earn more - like chores that he could do that are outside of his normal responsibilities. My parents did this and it REALLY instilled a sense of wanting to go 'above and beyond'. I also got pretty creative about coming up with things that would earn more money so it made me somewhat entreprenurial (sp?) as well ;) It works w/my DD too. She's asked me before if she can make my bed for $.50 or put away my socks, etc. It usually happens if she sees change lying around and wants it :p

If you're worried that it would take too long for him to save enough, perhaps you can do a 'match system'. Like, if he saves up $10, you'll match the other $10 to buy the $20 Playmobile. I think that's still really motivating for a kid.

[Renrel]

I don't have an answer since I have been talking/thinking about an allowance for awhile but have not yet acted on it.

I think extra jobs to earn more money is a good idea. Another thing to concider is breaking each allowance into catagories so that he learns about saving, spending, charity ect. For example you could give three dollars with $.50 to spend now at a dollar store or ice cream truck or whatever, $2.00 to go towards long term savings so he learns how its pays to save up for something big and $.50 to go to charity so that he learns about helping others who have less than he does, and he gets to chose the charity after you do some research to given him understandable choices. They even make special banks which are broken up into catagories so that it is easy to divide it up, though you could easily come up your own bank or system. Y

ou could also match him in a purchase, so he would have to save $5 to get a $10 toys. I thought about having him earn interst so that it build up faster, but I can't see a 4 year old "getting" the concept.

I have also been thinking about an electronic bank that tells you how much you put in and how much you have added up. DS seems to have trouble remembers how much each coin is worth but does understand addition and subtractions, so if I could find the right one I think it would help him alot, but I am worried that most of these banks are junky and break quickly. If anyone has an recommendation I would appreciate them.

[LeslieR]

My friend who has a 6 year old said she gives her son the amount of his age per week (she got the idea from a parenting magazine-not sure which one). She also gives him the opportunity to earn additional money outside of his regular chores.

I thought this sounded like a great idea, but it seems like a lot of money over a month's time.:confused: I wish I knew which magazine she got the idea from.

[emschwar]

renrel - see if you can find the leap frog learning bank on ebay. My mom got one for Noah at a thrift shop and he loves it. It adds up what you've saved and it tells you what each coin is worth. They stopped making it though. The only downside is it doesn't hold much.

I heard the $1 per year of age, but $4 seems like a lot for a 4 year old to me.

The matching thing is a good idea. So much to think about!

[AlisonCO]

Our plan is to start when DS turns 5 this fall. We have discussed starting at $2 per week but also having a list of things he can do around the house with a $ amount attached. We will talk about saving for bigger items (DS isn't really into small $1 toys) but I also imagine that the new-ness will make him want to go out and spend it and we will let that go until it wears off (hopefully). I love the matching idea and will definetely keep that in mind.

As far as chores, DS already does chores and I agree that they are seperate from getting allowance - I believe that chores are just part of living in a family and we all need to contribute to household chores. Right now DS puts all dirty clothes in his basket, sets the table for lunch and or dinner, clears his plate and cup from meals and throws away everyones napkin, helps unload the dishwasher, straightens up his room every evening and puts extra toilet paper in each bathroom twice per week.

[jennylou]

LOL, I was thinking $4 per month (the amount of his age for the month, never mind the weeks!). I agree with teaching him to save as well, give, etc.

Also, does he get any bday money, etc? Perhaps allow him to have some of it for fun stuff (as opposed to putting it all in savings for him).

[emschwar]

LOL, I was thinking $4 per month (the amount of his age for the month, never mind the weeks!). I agree with teaching him to save as well, give, etc.

Also, does he get any bday money, etc? Perhaps allow him to have some of it for fun stuff (as opposed to putting it all in savings for him).

I'm kind of leaning towards $5 a month, but I think that what I give him needs to be weekly, so he gets the reward sooner, rather than waiting a whole month. Maybe I'll do $1 a week and then I can throw an extra in when he's not looking at the end of the month ;)

He does get some birthday money, but usually gets to spend it anyway. Of course, birthday money is generally less than $10 per giver. This year he got many cards with $4 in them, since he turned 4. He gets a large sum of $ at christmas (usually $60 from his great grandmother) and that he gets to spend as well, but we slowly dole it out over the next few months and only on purchases we approve of (whereas he can blow the $4 at the dollar spot if he really wants to). The other $ givers tend to give him bonds, which just go in the safe deposit box - so much fun for a 4 year old ;)

As for charity, he's already got a tsedaka (sp?) box that my mom gave him. Loose change goes in there, and that goes to the charity of his choosing. We narrow it down for him by asking if he wants to give it to (for example) a charity that gives toys to kids that don't have any, a charity that feeds hungry people or a charity that helps animals.

[Renrel]

I did a search for that leap frog bank. It is going for a starting price of $45 on ebay with days to go. Not sure I want it that much, though if it would really teach him about the concept of money and savings it might be worth it in the long run, I just have trouble justifing that kind of money on a learning toy that may or may not suceed in teaching the concept and which might have a less expensive alterative out there somewhere. I wonder why they stopped making it when it was so well recieved?

[emschwar]

I did a search for that leap frog bank. It is going for a starting price of $45 on ebay with days to go. Not sure I want it that much, though if it would really teach him about the concept of money and savings it might be worth it in the long run, I just have trouble justifing that kind of money on a learning toy that may or may not suceed in teaching the concept and which might have a less expensive alterative out there somewhere. I wonder why they stopped making it when it was so well recieved?

I was going to say $45 was ridiculous, then I saw this: http://www.amazon.com/LeapFrog-Super-Saver-Teaching-Bank/dp/B0001X0DRQ/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1211310268&sr=8-1
Holy crap! Who pays that kind of money?

ETA - here's one on ebay that's only $4 right now: http://cgi.ebay.com/LEAP-FROG-SUPER-SAVER-TEACHING-BANK_W0QQitemZ140233795950QQihZ004QQcategoryZ15869 4QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Kanga]

If you want to do $5 a month, you could just do $1.25 a week. That could also help with learning between bills and change if he doesn't know yet.

[dziner]

I started DD (also 4) on an allowance recently. She gets $1 a week if she puts away toys and craft supplies, plus puts her laundry in the hamper. I'm still having to bug her to do it, but at least she is more willing. She hasn't spent anything yet and has a wishlist going, at my suggestion. Anytime she wants something I'm not willing to buy her, she can add it to her list. Then when she's saved up some money she can go back and select something she REALLY wants, not just whatever looked appealing during that ten second timeframe! I think it will help give her a sense of what is reasonable, ie, getting a pink and purple Leapster instead of the green one she got in December just b/c purple is her new favorite color. When I told her she'd have to save her allowance for 65 weeks it kind of made her think twice about that plan.

[Renrel]

DS has suddenly gotten very intersted in money. He wants all the change he notices lying around. He is putting it all into a fire engine bank he made at home depo a year or so ago. He wants to count it out every night. He asked if he could earn some money for doing a chore and I said yes and he did it and got a few cents. Now he is asking for more chores so that he can fill up his bank. So I think he is ready to start an allowance, have some expected chores, and a list of things he can do to earn extra money.

I have sort of held off on required chores because I am not sure what to do when he says no, he does not feel like doing them. He was helping set the table for awhile and then stopped being interested. I let it go because he was just 4 and I got some flake on CC for expecting too much from a 4 year old. I did not know how to enforce the expection so I did not make it an expectation. He helped when he felt like it. Now he is closer to 5 and I think it is time for us to take this step but I am not sure exactly how.

I was wondering how others, who did not tie allowance to chores enforce the chores rule. I don't want him thinking he can charge us to do things we just expect of him but I am not sure how to discipline chore refusal other than docking allowance, which will amount to him being paid for doing the chores. Also some ideas on chores would be appreciated. A time out? Loss of TV or computer time? Living in his own mess?

[emschwar]

Renrel - we got this for noah:
http://brightproductsinc.com/index.php/Shop-All-Products/I-Did-My-Chores.html
We're kind of doing it half-assed right now, but since we got it, he always puts his shoes in the right spot, and after almost every meal, he puts his plate in the dishwasher and wipes off his spot at the table.

[Txfish]

I have some input on the chores issue. I've been doing a behavior modification program with my almost 7 year old, and the concept of the reward/consequence issue is a point system. We have a set of rules/desired behaviors/household responsibilities, and at the end of each day she gets a certain number of points based on her performance for the day. In our case, she then uses her accumulated points to purchase priveleges off a "menu" we created (ie, 30 minutes of tv time is 50 points, etc.)

Here's the part that may apply more to what you are doing, ie giving allowance and separately expecting chores to be done: when she breaks one of our rules, we do not take points away. She is given a time out, and if it is a more serious breach, is given a "community service" as well. Her priveleges are suspended until she completes the consequence. We don't spend any time arrguing about the time out; if she goes and does it, then we're done. If she doesn't, essentially she grounds herself until she decides to do the consequence. However, her points still accumulate based on what she accomplishes.

So maybe, if all chores aren't completed, then spending priveleges for the allowance are suspended. Or, you just do the time out for Not Being Responsible, and don't connect it to the money at all. Good luck!