McCain...why do alot of conservatives not like him

[Renee34]

I have heard that some conservatives believe that McCain is a democrat in disguise. Can someone tell me why this is.

[Delta]

For starters, he was in talks with Tom Daschle to switch parties in 2001. ;)

But the NYT did a good job in solidifying his support among conservatives last week, that's for sure.

[nylons73]

Just a short list off of the top of my head...

He is against drilling in Alaska for environmental reasons
He believes in global warming and believes the US govt. should start taking broad steps to do something about it.
He opposes constitutional amendments to outlaw abortion and to ban gay marriage and he votes contrary to a lot of the Republican party on these issues.

He worked with Sen. Feingold of Wisconsin (D) to put together comprehensive campaign finance reform that the Republican party hates.

He worked with Ted Kennedy (D) to propose a bill on immigration that would come close to providing amnesty to the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants living in this country. (as opposed to deporting them which candidates like Mitt Romeny strongly supported.)

He put together a bi-partisan "Gang of 14" in the Senate whose purpose was to keep far right judiciary nominations out of the Supreme Court.

He voted against the Bush Tax Cuts of 2004 twice before he voted for them the last time around. He publically said that he did not vote for the tax cuts (the first two times) because they favored the wealthy and left out the middle and lower classes (a very democratic sentiment!)

He is very much against pork-barrel spending and has called out many Rep. members of Congress for sneaking $$ for their pet projects (like an Alaskan bridge to 'nowhere') into other important legislation that the 'sneaky member' knows that Bush will likely pass. Therefore when Bush signs the important legislation, the 'pet projects' also get funded.

That's just for starters....there's much more...

[Renee34]

Thanks both of you for responding. My vote was going to be for McCain (it still might, I don't know), but then I was hearing things about McCain and his democratic tendancies. I guess I really don't know what to do now, I'm for sure not voting for Obama or Hillary. Does anyone else feel like you're having to vote for the lesser of the evils....well, maybe not 'evil' but ykwim.;) I'm really not excited about any of the three.

[phoenics]

Thanks both of you for responding. My vote was going to be for McCain (it still might, I don't know), but then I was hearing things about McCain and his democratic tendancies. I guess I really don't know what to do now, I'm for sure not voting for Obama or Hillary. Does anyone else feel like you're having to vote for the lesser of the evils....well, maybe not 'evil' but ykwim.;) I'm really not excited about any of the three.

Nope. For the first time I feel like I can't lose with either Obama or Hillary, even if Hillary is the nom.

Choosing between the lesser of evils is likely what Republicans have to face and it's what America faced for the last 8 years.

[Dally]

So, McCain's fiscal conservatism (like going after pork spending regardless of which party it emanates from) makes him "evil" to Republicans now?

Republicans have really changed in the past couple of decades (especially during the Bush years). It seems like it's all about social conservatism, and not economic conservatism or even smaller government, like it used to be. I wouldn't be surprised if the Republicans eventually split into two parties: the Christian right/social conservatives and the smaller gov/fiscal conservatives.

[thedoorchick]

So, McCain's fiscal conservatism (like going after pork spending regardless of which party it emanates from) makes him "evil" to Republicans now?

No. Not to this Republican, anyway. Social issues concern me, but I am a capitalist at heart and fiscal issues are generally what sways my vote.

I personally am not really happy with any of the choices in this election. I will probably hold my nose and vote for McCain, but I don't really like him that much. More than anything, I can't say that I trust him.

I don't consider nylons93's list a good list of why some Republicans don't like McCain; it's more of a Democrat tongue-in-cheek post. I'm not sure if it was intended to be a dig, but it felt like one.

There are two reasons I think a lot of Republicans aren't comfortable with McCain. One is the trust issue I mentioned, and the other is his stance on social issues (by and large, not very conservative).

[am_81]

I don't consider nylons93's list a good list of why some Republicans don't like McCain; it's more of a Democrat tongue-in-cheek post. I'm not sure if it was intended to be a dig, but it felt like one.

I dont think that post was a dig, considering that I've seen several of those sentiments posted right here on CC.

[thedoorchick]

Well, the tone of the post seemed to me like, "McCain does x, y, and z which are good things, and is against a, b, and c which are bad things; therefore Republicans don't like him."

[nylons73]

Well, the tone of the post seemed to me like, "McCain does x, y, and z which are good things, and is against a, b, and c which are bad things; therefore Republicans don't like him."

My post wasn't meant as a dig at all and I am sorry that you took it that way. I worked on the Hill and have worked for 4 Members of Congress. I was relating what collegues on the Republican side have mentioned about McCain and what Mitt Romney recently used against him to discredit McCain as a 'conservative.'

Mitt Romney, Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, James Dobson and many others were going after McCain's "conservative credentials" using almost all of the things that I posted 'against him.' Since the NYT article the socially conservative base of the party has rallied around McCain, but I can present 100s of examples that what I posted have been some major criticisms of him by the social conservatives. Actually, all you have to do is listen to Mike Huckabee any given day and you will hear exactly what I posted coming out of his mouth about McCain.

I think you make an excellent point that the branch of the party that considers themselves 'fiscal' conservatives don't have too much of a problem with McCain. However the "Limbaugh" branch (social conservatives) do not feel the same way.

[thedoorchick]

OK, it seems that I stand corrected. Perhaps I'm a little oversensitive right now. I've got quite a few years of Republican bashing in my recent past.

[Dally]

I'm glad to know that fiscal conservatism isn't dead for all Republicans, although I've been gleaning that just from the fact that McCain is well on his way to getting the nomination.

I admit I've been surprised at the vitriol he receives, though. Sometimes it seems like if you are not pushing an evangelical agenda, than you aren't a "real" Republican these days. And that those who support such an agenda aren't that concerned about fiscal conservatism--like Bush.

Thanks, Thedoorchick, for your perspective. I'm not sure why you don't trust McCain, but that's a reason I get, at least. What's been strange to me is the people acting like he's either a) a Democrat (a check of his voting record should dispel that notion), or b) this close to evil.

For me personally, I respect McCain for his service to this country, his ability to make it through being in a POW camp, for calling bullshit when he sees it without regard to party (I know he doesn't always do this, but at least he does it sometimes), and for--yes--reaching across the aisle. Personally, I think working together--even compromising--is useful in government.

I'm not even a huge McCain fan (I disagree with him on many issues, but that's because I am a liberal-moderate), but I do find his demonization fascinating. I guess the NYT helped him out of that a bit, though.

[thedoorchick]

He's lied about some pretty obvious things; that's my main issue with trust. Of course, he is a politician, and if I wanted to support a politician that had never contradicted him/herself, I might never vote. ;)

[Delta]

McCain is complicated.

Conservatives have more issues with him than just his social policies. I think he is a mainstream social conservative, he just isn't a demagogue on the issues (ie support relevant constitutional amendments) or kowtow to those who do. Personally, I agree with him 100%.

As to the other issues, first, he opposed Bush's tax plan in 2001 and he's not being entirely truthful about his reasons for opposing it. In 2001 he called it a 'tax cut for the rich' - which sounds like something straight out of the DNC. Republicans just don't do class warfare. Well, now he claims his oppostion was because there were no spending cuts to go along with it. I guess forgetting (or not being aware of the fact that) there is such thing as Google. He now supports making the tax cuts permanent, of course.

Secondly, conservatives oppose the imposition on free speech that is the McCain-Feingold bill. It seems to have been some sort of personal soul-cleansing after his involvement in the Keating Five scandal. (And we see now that he's having lots of trouble with the FEC because of his own dang law.) Bush didn't veto it thinking that SCOTUS would declare it unconstitutional, but alas, he was giving them too much credit as they only declared parts of it unconstitutional.

Thirdly, (and this is only just now coming to light) he was apparently in talks with Dems to switch parties in 2001. Probably in reaction to the 2000 campaign, IMO. He didn't switch because Jeffords got there first.

And then there is the global warming stuff, and the Gang of 14, etc.

The think with McCain is that he's burned conservatives too many times on many different types of issues that they can't really trust him. The have no control over him. He doesn't answer to anyone but himself (and to a large extent, the media.) He tends to pursue policies that highlight his personal honor and virtue, and those that make him popular in the media.

The big exception, of course, is his support for the surge and indeed his warning that too few troops were being sent into Iraq in the first place. The guy is a superhawk.

In some ways I'll be delighted if he's elected (for fiscal responsibility reasons, national security, constructionist judges, etc.) But he is also sort of a loose canon, and that makes me uneasy. I want to know who his VP is first, before I decide how I feel about his ticket as a whole. The guy has the potential to be president until he's 80 - so his VP pick better be outstanding and ready to lead. And then there is this fishy NYT lobby influence investigation...

ETA - OMG - And how could I have forgotten the biggie? Immigration. McCain-Kennedy. He's pretty much with Bush on immigration. And Bush's ratings are below 30 mainly because even his normal base has abandoned him on immigration.

[Dally]

Thank you, Delta. You really laid that out nicely. I feel like I have a much better understanding of the Republican perspective now.