4 Yr Old DD hurting 2 Yr Old Sister. Help!?

[mollymac]

I'm not sure what to do. Lately our 4 1/2 year old DD has been playing pretty rough with her little sister who is 2. Our 2 year old can usually hold her own but in the past week our older daughter has scratched, bit and poked her little sister with a pen to the point of drawing blood. Most of the time they get along great and are very loving to each other but every now and then we see this "mean" side.

Today 4 Yr Old was writing in her princess journal when her little sister came over to see what she was doing and our older DD poked her under her eye with the pen and said "get away!"

Each time we've put her in the "naughty corner" and then talked to her about playing too roughly and hurting her sister. But obviously we are not getting the point across. Today after the pen poking incident I lost my cool and yelled and told her to go right to her room until Daddy came home. When I went up there to talk to her she was fast asleep.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do?

Any help or advice would be GREATLY appreciated!!

Thank you!

[AmyE]

Ugh, scary.

Have you taken away privledges or the toys? Tell her that she can't do whatever she was doing when she acted out. For example, if she uses the pen as a weapon when she's writing in the journal, the journal and pen go away for one day. (Or whatever timeframe is fair.)

Or, no favorite show that night, or the bicycle stays in the garage, or whatever.

Something to escalate the punishments if the time outs are not working.

ETA: You might also try to work with the 2-year-old about leaving her sister alone sometimes. 2 is pretty young for that (at least I'm not sure my almost-3-year old would get it consistently!) but at least you can start working with her on boundaries.

[Ellyn]

I agree with Amy...take away then pen for a while (I know that doesn't take care of the problem though...just the "weapon".) My DS doesn't "care" about timeouts...at least he pretends not to. I threaten the naughty spot and he just shrugs it off and sometimes does it anyways. I guess he thinks whatever he is doing wrong is "worth it". :rolleyes: Have you talked to your older daughter to see what is going on? I would think a 4.5 yr old would be able to tell you some of what she is feeling (if she is feeling "invaded" by the 2 yr old, or if she is angry for another reason, or is doing it as an attention getter). And my DS (2.5 yo) would probably understand some of a "boundries" discussion. he may need lots of reminders but he'd get the idea.

[Kanga]

Does your ODD have a place all of her own that her sister can't get to, along with a place to keep special toys, etc that her sister is not allowed to bother her in? I know growing up, my sister and I had our own rooms and if we didn't want to, we didn't have to allow anyone in there ever, except Mom strip sheets, etc and the cleaning lady when we had one. It gave us a nice sense of security and our own thing. If your girls share a room, maybe have it be just their bed, or a pile of pillows in the corner or their bedroom or playroom.

[mollymac]

Thank you for the responses so far and good advice. We've tried taking away toys as punishment but our DD seems to always be ok with this. She'll say things like "Oh, I don't like that toy anyway" (even if it's her favorite doll) or if we take away something fun or her favorite TV show she does not seem that bothered "ok, I'll just watch Dora tomorrow"

I like the suggestions of talking to our younger DD about letting older DD have some space - I think that should help. We have another baby coming in April - a boy - and older DD is so excited. Her teachers at school tell us that it's all she talks about - holding her baby brother, singing to him, how she can't wait until he comes out, etc. Maybe there are still some underlying fears of yet another baby coming into the family and having to share Mommy and Daddy with another sibling.

Thanks again for the advice! Keep it coming!

[mamax2]

My girls are the same ages as your two girls and I know exactly what you're going through!

What jumped out at me about your post is the part where your oldest fell asleep. I'm not always good about catching it in the moment, but I find that when she's hungry or tired (neither of which she verbalizes well), she gets really peevish.

Does your oldest still nap? If not, does she have a 'quiet time'. I make sure my oldest has a quiet time every day while her sister naps and this is her chance to work at her desk, play whatever she wants in her room, etc. About 1/2 the days, I am also able to work in some time to do something one-on-one with her like a craft, play a board game, etc. That seems to help direct her a little better for the rest of the evening (her worst time).

Once an offense happens though, I take away the weapon and tell her that just because she's bigger, she can't hurt another person. I usually ask her if I can pull her hair, kick her, etc. just to make the point that even though I'm bigger, it's not o.k. for me to hurt her. For some reason, that really illustrates the point to her better than anything else. I then ask her to do something to make her sister feel better.

[AlisonCO]

My kids are 4 and 2 also and one thing that works for us is to make sure that whenever my 4yo wants, he can go to his room and play by himself. I think that it helps him have some control over the situation - like when DD just won't leave him alone and he can't do anything without her following him, he can have a time out from her.

I also agree about some one on one time with you while your youngest naps. From 1-2 everyday, DS and I do something fun like puzzles, art, games - things that are hard to do with with the younger one too. Then from 2-3 he has quiet time in his room.

It is hard for me sometimes to decide when to intervene and when to let them works things out. Of course when things turn physical, I intervene, but otherwise I feel like I don't always know what to do.

[Renrel]

I don't have 2 so I don't really feel knowledgeable in this matter but I wanted to share something my SIL and BIL told me. I don't think it is relevant to the immediate problem but it might be to related problems. They used to intervene whenever their oldest hurt their youngest until they started noticing the youngest was taking advantage of this. Intentionally provoking the older, physically or otherwise to get a reaction which would get the oldest in trouble. They then backed way off and, within reason, allowed the youngest to reap the consquences of his provocative behavior. They of course would not allow use of a weapon or anything likely to cause serious injury but if the little one was asking to be shoved or pushed then the oldest was not going to get in trouble for giving him what he was asking for. I realize that this may not be in keeping with the message that it is never ok to hit or that might does not make right, but it may still make sense in some families given the dynamics of sibling relationships. I remember realizing with shock that my baby sister could turn on the tears and hysteric at will one day when I grabbed her wrist to keep her from hitting me and she started screaming bloody murder that I was strangling her wrists. I know that I was not trying to hurt her. I just remember being in total shock because I did not realize it was possible to fake pain and such so well. I was lucky though that my parents were both oldest kids and understood how little siblings could take advantage.