Would you join a union?

[kiddo]

Some people in the municipality I work for are trying to organize a union. Currently fire, highway, and police are all unionized, but administrative professionals are not.

The biggest differnece b/t how union and non-union workers are treated is that union workers get a guaranteed raise each year for the length of their contract, where as the money for non-union raises first must be approved by a town vote and then raises are rewarded based on employee performance.

While I like the merit based raises, the fact that every year we have to hold our breathes to see if the town will vote for the raise really makes me uneasy. If the article doesn't pass, we get nothing, not even cost of living. Every year as taxes increase, the vote gets closer and closer to not passing.

In other municipalities, Selectmen have even ran under the platform of cutting spending by cutting employee benefits and have won. The idea of politicizing people's livelihoods really unnerves me.

So now I have to decide if I want to 'sign the card', which means I want to vote on whether or not to unionize. They need at least 50% +1 to sign to force a vote and then the vote needs to pass by a 2/3 vote.

I have mixed feelings about unions. Going to the informational meeting I obviously heard a lot of pro-union opinions, but I am also interested in hearing some anti-union opions.

So I was wondering, are you for or against unions and why? Would you join one? What factors would prevent you from joining a union even if you aren't opposed to unions in general?

[kam]

My mom was part of an admin group trying to form a union in the school system. I can see people's arguments against them but especially in this type of job, I am all for them. I think you make a point without even realizing it - in most corporations you get a pay raise based on merits. In a municipality, not so much. This means that even if you are superb at your job, you will not get a raise and job security (meaning not only your job being there but you continue making your salary) isn't exactly high. If you are in the municipality because of a life situation (for example, my mom chose the school system because this meant she had similar hours to her kids), don't expect much of anything because they feel they have you between a rock and a hard place.

So in your situation, I would definitely be for one.

[msnicolea]

I agree with Kam. In certain professions, Unions are extraordinarily useful, and really take care of the workers.

[kiddo]

If you are in the municipality because of a life situation (for example, my mom chose the school system because this meant she had similar hours to her kids), don't expect much of anything because they feel they have you between a rock and a hard place.

That's an excellent point. While I don't have kiddos now (we are TTC), once we do, if I decide to stay at work (but with my salary, I wonder if it will even be worth it) my hours will be very convenient, especially once they are in school. We already have several women with kids who work in my office that are able to work 9-3, which is the major reason why they work for the town. They certainly could be paid more money working in the private sector.

[kedzieb]

I think in your position, joining a union makes sense. I know if my raises were tied to the whim of the voters and I was in a non-elected position, I would want the security of a union. My mother is a member of a union in her private sector engineering/planning position and it has been extremely helpful in securing fair raises and benefit retention while she's been in it.

[allyray231]

My mom was part of an admin group trying to form a union in the school system. I can see people's arguments against them but especially in this type of job, I am all for them. I think you make a point without even realizing it - in most corporations you get a pay raise based on merits. In a municipality, not so much. This means that even if you are superb at your job, you will not get a raise and job security (meaning not only your job being there but you continue making your salary) isn't exactly high. If you are in the municipality because of a life situation (for example, my mom chose the school system because this meant she had similar hours to her kids), don't expect much of anything because they feel they have you between a rock and a hard place.

So in your situation, I would definitely be for one.

I agree with this. I was in a union at my old college and it was great.

[Rosebud]

Co-workers and I used to talk about this all the time earlier in my career. It would pretty much be impossible to unionize the kind of work we do, but we all wished it could happen. The crazy abuses we encountered are things you just wouldn't believe-- we always thought a union might allow us to say no to some of the things we were forced to do (buy drugs and procure escorts for bosses, for example) and still keep our jobs. Maybe our bosses wouldn't have just been allowed to reduce our health benefits or stop paying for our parking at the office ($15-20 a day) because they wanted to use overhead money to pay for their personal expenses instead (Birkin bag for the wife!). And maybe it would have prevented us from being fired for turning down sexual advances, becoming pregnant, etc. Who knows? Never going to happen in this field, but I certainly would have been interested if it did. Sometimes workers really do need protection and support.

[kari]

I did join a union, but not by choice. When I worked at UPS, I was automatically in a union, paying dues and all.

[tenofcups]

I'd join a union in a second. I honestly don't understand what possible objection a worker could have to being in a union. I do, of course, understand what objections management could have.

[Sin Nombre]

I'd join a union in a second. I honestly don't understand what possible objection a worker could have to being in a union. I do, of course, understand what objections management could have.

Ditto - a union affords a worker a great deal of protection (s)he otherwise might not have.

[twainny]

but does the cost off-set the potential raise you may get? I have no idea how much dues are, since i have never been in a union.

I also don't agree that you should be forced to join a union (ie. teachers).

[K&H's mommy]

I'm a registered nurse and belong to the CNA (California Nurses Association). I love it. Granted I have to pay $90 a month to the union (which may seem like a lot, but I get paid very well - and it's because of the bargaining that the union does for us). I don't have to argue pay raises or anything, it's already done. Plus if you have any problems with management you grab a union rep and ask what your rights are and they help you handle it. My job is very protected and I always have someone watching my back and helping out. It's very nice.

I don't know about unions in other professions though.

[pixiecat]

I work in management, so I'm obviously not pro-union (for my work at least, ha!), but DH is in one & I've seen it do good and bad things.

You've heard a lot of the good things (and I do think that working in a municipality is different than a private corporation). Some of the bad things are that is it often nigh impossible for the employer to get rid of bad employees. So you are often stuck working with slackers or people w/ low morale who only stay b/c they can't get a job anywhere else. The thought of everyone being equal doesn't sit well w/ me b/c I want to be rewarded if I do better/work harder than everyone else, KWIM?

I think that unions are great for certain jobs & certainly played an important historical role. Just not sure that modern-day unions are correct for every occupation.

ps - Rosebud - I know that you talked about unionizing tongue in cheek, but all of those things are illegal & you sure wouln't have needed a union to back you up there! yowzaa!

[Rosebud]

ps - Rosebud - I know that you talked about unionizing tongue in cheek, but all of those things are illegal & you sure wouln't have needed a union to back you up there! yowzaa!

Totally true, but filing a lawsuit means you will pretty much never work in this field again. It's a small town. But I'm also idealizing a union as an entity that could have prevented this stuff when that's not necessarily true.

[hub1176]

I'm not anti union, but there are negatives for employees in a union. Dues, for one. My DH is a teacher and has to belong to the union and has to pay dues. These are a sizable chunk of his paycheck. When you're already not making a lot of money, that sucks. I also know someone who went to work for UPS over her summer college break, she worked a week, they decided to strike and there went her summer job (and money for books,tuition etc.) I do agree union can offer some wonderful protections, but to say there isn't a negative to the employee simply isn't true.

[kiddo]

Some of the bad things are that is it often nigh impossible for the employer to get rid of bad employees. So you are often stuck working with slackers or people w/ low morale who only stay b/c they can't get a job anywhere else. The thought of everyone being equal doesn't sit well w/ me b/c I want to be rewarded if I do better/work harder than everyone else, KWIM?

This is really one of the few reservations I have, and it's kind of a big one for me. In jobs I've had with merit based pay, I've always been in the top tier for raises. And I wonder of a union would make the already underperformers more complacent doing even less work, making more work for me.

DH was in a union before he became management and they did help him with some issues. But when a friend of his almost lost his job because he got caught looking at internet porn at work (after he had already been warned to not be on the internet at all during work hours, he's always been a slacker), the union helped save him by coming up with the excuse that he had a porn addiction. :rolleyes: He'll admit he's just lazy and doesn't have a problem.

The dues are a bit of an issue for me too. Dues are 2.5Xs the average hourly rate per month and would probaby be around $40-$45 a month. Since I am one of the lowest paid and only work 30 hours a week, that would be about 3% of my salary.

Nobody could be forced to join the union and the current contracts for the Fire Dept and Highway Dept do not require non-members to pay any dues, so I would assume our contract would be similar. I do not agree with people having to pay dues if they don't want to.

[kiddo]

I also know someone who went to work for UPS over her summer college break, she worked a week, they decided to strike and there went her summer job (and money for books,tuition etc.)

As public employees we would not be allowed to strike.

When my mom worked in the office for the phone company, she was in a union with the line workers, but they had different contracts. The line workers contract was much better. When the line workers went on strike to keep a benefit that she didn't even have, she had to strike too. When the union came to an agreement, the line workers got the benefit and the office employees did not. Needless to say, mom's not too hot on unions.

My Dad on the other hand was in the electrical union and is a big supporter of unions. In times of big layoffs, his job was often saved because he had so much seniority. He was one of the last to be laid off and one of the first to be rehired.

[PG-rated]

DH is an independent contractor with the federal government, and he deals with a lot of the downsides of unions. He does the exact same job as the unionized employees, but he has no job security, no benefits, no vacation. Meanwhile, the unionized employees basically can't be fired, so they're often lousy workers. DH will have people lining up with jobs for him while a union person sits next door with nothing to do because everyone hates working with him. When the government agency he works for was facing a budget shortfall last year, they asked the supervisors to draw up a list of people who were most expendable due to lackluster performance. Several union people were on top, so they skipped all of them and went straight to the contractors rather than have to fight with the union to let these people go.

On the other hand, my mom is a special ed teacher in a state that's been making big education cutbacks (what state hasn't?), and her union has been really helpful in protecting its members as much as they can, and going to bat for them. In her case, there's no problem with the union protecting lousy workers, since all of her coworkers are very dedicated.

[salysaturn]

used to be, so yes I would again.

[Happy1]

We actually just fought off being unionized here at the municipality where I work. The unions which are currently in place for the police, fire, recycling and water depts. are a royal PITA. In fact, everything the union rep tried to throw our way to entice us, we got anyway. And the kicker was-the union they actually do represent (all the other employees) never did end up getting what they were promised. In our situation, we're much better NOT being unionized.

I'm not saying unions are bad. They have their places but the ones around our area don't provide any benefit to those under them. We're actually better (as has been proven several times) staying far, far away from the unions.

Nikki :D

[MrsBeckyLP]

but does the cost off-set the potential raise you may get? I have no idea how much dues are, since i have never been in a union.

DH's union dues are $63 a month (I just called him to find out).

Meanwhile, the unionized employees basically can't be fired, so they're often lousy workers. DH will have people lining up with jobs for him while a union person sits next door with nothing to do because everyone hates working with him.

This is very true. It also happens within the union: My (unionized) DH is a very hard worker, and he basically gets shit on at work because of it. The lazy guys in the union who don't work hard get to do all the cushy jobs and slack off, while DH is always assigned to do the hard jobs. They know he's going to do a good job, so instead of giving him a break once in a while, he's always busting his butt while the slackers drive around in their trucks all day and make the same amount of money. And as everyone knows, once their probation period is up, it's nearly impossible for unionized workers to be fired.

That said, we all know about the great job security unions provide. (He also has great benefits.) In fact, a supervisory position my DH is qualified for was posted today, and though he'd be making more money, he's not going to apply (it's a non-union position). He works for a utility company, and the chances of it being bought out within the next several years are pretty good. The supervisors are usually the first ones to go in those situations, so DH would rather stay in the union.

In the OP's situation, I think I'd vote in favor of a union, mainly for the reasons kam and kedzie posted.

[MrsBeckyLP]

We actually just fought off being unionized here at the municipality where I work.

That's interesting. I think you'd be the perfect person for the OP to talk to! :)

[kiddo]

That's interesting. I think you'd be the perfect person for the OP to talk to! :)

Yes, yes!

Happy1 would you mind sharing the specifics. In our case, the union health insurance is cheaper. They get guaranteed raises on July 1 every year. We are also supposed to get raises on July 1, but even though our raises are approved by town vote, the Selectmen still need to approve them and they usually table the vote until September or October. Another thing is holiday, vacation, and sick time all count as hours worked toward over time. And all union employees get insurance buy-out.

What types of things didn't they get that were promised?

[miel]

Yes!!!

My union is usually the bomb. We have a contract and basic working conditions are negotiable. This protects us in about 10,000 ways from arbitrary hour changes and a variety of ridiculous and arbitrary decisions.

Oh, and our union negotiated an AWESOME maternity leave and illness leave plan.

Unions rock. It is not free but it is worth EVERY PENNY.

(If you know of a job that has high wages and good benefits and is not also a white collar professional job you can be 95% sure there is a union. And even if there is not, the existence of a union in that sector makes management treat their workers better usually.)

[jennylou]

I worked for the county for some time. Part of the county was unionized and part were at will employees (of elected officials). While I understand being an at will employee of say, the County Commissioners, if you say were their Administrative Assistant - it made NO sense to me not to be able to unionize if you were say the Secretary for the transit system. You had no day to day contact with the County Commissioners and because of that were often not taken care of in regards to raises. When we did get raises, it was the same percentage across the board. And we did have slackers that everyone knew were slackers and nothing was done about it. In my mind, I would have rather have paid union dues and at least known that I was going to get some sort of raise per year.

That said, I do see the bad sides of unions. I think the unions have chased some jobs right out of our state. Yes, I understand wanted to fight for decent jobs, benefits, etc. But, I've seen first hand people who didn't even have high school diplomas making $25 an hour plus. Then, when the company moved so that they could have a cheaper labor force, these same people couldn't understand why they couldn't get another job making the same pay. I'm not saying that people who have worked for a company for years and years should have to take pay cuts, but I think understanding the economics of a region are important - sometimes the union needs to do more of a give and take which doesn't always seem to happen.

[Happy1]

Yes, yes!

Happy1 would you mind sharing the specifics. In our case, the union health insurance is cheaper. They get guaranteed raises on July 1 every year. We are also supposed to get raises on July 1, but even though our raises are approved by town vote, the Selectmen still need to approve them and they usually table the vote until September or October. Another thing is holiday, vacation, and sick time all count as hours worked toward over time. And all union employees get insurance buy-out.

What types of things didn't they get that were promised?


Before I go on, I just want to make sure that everyone knows I'm not bashing unions. Like I said-they have their place and for those, they're great.

As for what the employees were promised, while the union rep was trying to "reel" the rest of us in, they were trying to prove that they could give us things we couldn't get otherwise (which is understandable and what unions normally do). So...

1. they told their people that they could get an extra week of vacation a whole year before we would (so at year 7 instead of year 8). The Common Council thought of that, voted and passed it in the ordinances that we could get an extra week of vacation 1 year earlier. Suddenly the union didn't follow through on that for their people so they were still stuck at having to wait 8 years instead of the 7 we have to.

2. the union said they could offer us better health insurance options (again-totally understandable). Suddenly us non-union people got better benefits but the union people did not (I know this for a fact from talking with a couple of the union emloyees).

3. Then there was the pay scale-again, totally what a union is supposed to do. They said they could gauruntee without a doubt that union people would get raises every single year. Now we did go 2 years without raises due to the budget crunch so that would be an understandable benefit of a union. However, I also know that the union employees also ended up going without raises despite the promise of a raise every year and in 2007, the contract negotiations were still going on 6 months past where they were supposed to have been settled. So even though the union employees did get a raise for 2007 eventually and they were back paid for that raise to where they should have been starting to receive it, they didn't get it until 6 months past the time they should have. Some of the union people were ticked because that extra money could have been earning them interest in investments during that time. For others, it didn't matter to them.

This is a quote from the secretary who works down the hall from me. Her DH works in the Recycling Dept. which is unionized so this is from their personal experience:

"They don't find out about meetings, they don't get minutes and they find about union due increases on their checks and not b4. Scott's union has the street, sanitation and janitors in it. the street dept pretty much dictates what they will ask 4 & the other ones have no say in the matter. For 2007 they never did find out what their contract got settled for and WHAT they even bargined for. "

It really sounds like I'm bashing unions but I just speak from the experience of the one that's here-not all of them, I'm sure, are like this.

Nikki :D

[thedoorchick]

but I think understanding the economics of a region are important - sometimes the union needs to do more of a give and take which doesn't always seem to happen.
This is one of my big issues with unions. There is little or no consideration of local economy nor of the company's finances. Unions (understandably) have tunnel vision and guaranteed raises and other benefits are not always in the best interest of the company as a whole. I personally want my company to stay around and stay financially healthy, which manifests itself in my job security, rather than paying me a pre-set raise that has no bearing on what makes financial sense.

[kiddo]

Nikki, thank you for your response. I don't think it sounds like you are bashing unions, just being honest about your experience. I wonder if the reason you got better benefits in some instances is because the town wanted to try to stop you from unionizing.

I think sometimes the threat of unionizing can be effective in getting better benefits.

[Happy1]

I wonder if the reason you got better benefits in some instances is because the town wanted to try to stop you from unionizing.

I think sometimes the threat of unionizing can be effective in getting better benefits.

Oh I don't doubt that one bit. That's why I'll be honest in saying that my experience is a little skewed.

Nikki :D

[melmo]

I have had 2 experiences with unions. The first as a member. I was in a facility that voted a union in while I was there. It was a negative experience, but I believe that was the particular union. Some points:
1. They promised us tons of stuff. NONE of it materialized. As a matter of fact, we had to give up some of the things that the company were already giving us, because they were not in the contract and other union members weren't get it.
2. Lay offs came after Sept 11, 2001. The layoffs were based solely on seniority. Someone who started 4 weeks before me, and was not a good employee kept their job and I did not. The HR person was almost in tears when I was given my lay off. I was a good employee and would have never been laid off if it was based on merit. Another co-worker was laid off because he and another employee started the same day and his social security number was his used to determine who was more senior.

Now, I am a member of management at another facility. The union wanted Christmas bonuses to be made part of the contract. The company said they can't guarantee a Christmas bonus because it's based on the fiscal year successes. The union wouldn't let it go. Now, non-union employees get Christmas bonuses, union employees do not because it's not part of the contract.

I have been restricted in helping some of my employees with working with schedules for school or childcare because of the union. If there is a variation of the schedule it has to be re-bid, etc.

I feel unions have a place and some are really good. I have happened to have 2 experiences with unions that don't seem to care too much about their members as long as a select few get what they want and they get their $$$ (dues).

[WisWis]

Nope, I won't join a union. I'm a teacher, so our union is the NEA. I'm not a fan at all. Even if I did agree with their politics, I wouldn't join because I hate the high-pressure sales pitch we get every year. I'm grateful that I have the choice not to join; my father has to pay dues whether or not he's a member (he's not) because of collective bargaining.

[kiddo]

What are the politics you do not agree with?

[LyLMyssChaos]

I am very much against unions. I realize that they were started to insure that workers needs were protected and met. I do not feel that they function so much in that capacity these days as much as they function to get wants met.

I have seen the unions all but cripple the state I live in on more than one occasion. They have gotten overly demanding and pushy in my opinion.

[rileyandfredsmom]

I am very much against unions. I realize that they were started to insure that workers needs were protected and met. I do not feel that they function so much in that capacity these days as much as they function to get wants met.

I agree completely with this statement!

The story that sums up my feelings is this: I manage tradeshows and as such must deal with unions for every single thing that happens on the floor. At one particular show, I had a lighting truss that needed to be assembled and raised. I had to order the decorator's union to come assemble the truss, then the electrical union to come put the lights on the truss, then the riggers union to raise the truss in the air. But none of that was very clear cut in the rules so everyone was in our booth arguing over who was supposed to do what. Then, when it was all decided, the electricians could put the lights on the truss but the decorator's union had to match 1:1 the electricians so I was now paying 4 hour minimums on 8 guys in my booth while 4 of those guys stood around and watched. Then, the union that managed the freight delivered the frieght to our booth but even though we had been assured of an 8 a.m. move in, the freight wasn't delivered until 10 a.m. Well, we had made a labor call of 8 a.m. so those 8 guys sat around for 2 hours (because if I released them I would still pay their 4 hour mini and there were no assurances I could get that labor back when my booth finally arrived). So at 10 a.m., my 8 guys got started. Then at 10:15, they sat their tools down and said "break-time". They took a 30 minute break even though they had been sitting on their butts for 2 hours. AND I HAD TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING!!!

Rest assured, as a 'white-collar' worker, when those guys are getting paid OT because they are working past 4:00, I most certainly am not. And they are probably making more than me, working less and getting guaranteed pay increases. RIDICULOUS.

Personally, every person should be managing their own pay, own workload and commitment to their job. I do not think that someone should be afforded work protection simply because they give money to someone else, it should be based on quality of work and commitment.

But, that's my opinion and obviously not a very popluar one.

[HisSpicy]

No, I would not. I will be a public school teacher next year (being optimistic that I will finish my masters) and I will not be joining the union, even if they take my money anyway. I have seen them do more harm than good (the union at the aluminum smelter where my dad worked was the worst, but that was in high school so I don't remember all the details now) and I just don't believe they are the best way to accomplish things. Not that I am some genius with the perfect solution, I just don't agree with unions even in theory.

[betsyboop]

Co-workers and I used to talk about this all the time earlier in my career. It would pretty much be impossible to unionize the kind of work we do, but we all wished it could happen. The crazy abuses we encountered are things you just wouldn't believe-- we always thought a union might allow us to say no to some of the things we were forced to do (buy drugs and procure escorts for bosses, for example) and still keep our jobs. Maybe our bosses wouldn't have just been allowed to reduce our health benefits or stop paying for our parking at the office ($15-20 a day) because they wanted to use overhead money to pay for their personal expenses instead (Birkin bag for the wife!). And maybe it would have prevented us from being fired for turning down sexual advances, becoming pregnant, etc. Who knows? Never going to happen in this field, but I certainly would have been interested if it did. Sometimes workers really do need protection and support.


:eek:

What do you do for a living??

[PinkMartini]

I was a member of the union when I worked in the telecommunications industry. You paid union dues either way, so I figured I might as well get the protection since I'd be paying for it either way!

[pixiecat]

interesting that many *have* to pay dues, whether they join or not.... my sister is not in her union (yet) but is still afforded the same protection as those who are in the union.

when she was in school, she was working at a hospital (admin role) during the summer. It was a 12 week stint, so she didn't even look into joining the union. one day a man in a suit (who she didn't know) *stopped the elevator* (they were the only ones in there) to give her the strong arm about joining the union!! She was so scared, she almost quit.

not saying that all unions are like this, but that was scary for her & probably a reason that she has been slow to join now that she has a permanent position.

[kiddo]

Rest assured, as a 'white-collar' worker, when those guys are getting paid OT because they are working past 4:00, I most certainly am not. And they are probably making more than me, working less and getting guaranteed pay increases. RIDICULOUS.

See, to me that sounds like a good argue for a union. When I worked for an insurance company, non-union, I got 'promoted' and went from non-exempt to exempt when my job started requiring me to work a lot of OT. While I got a raise with my 'promotion', I was actually making less money because I no longer got OT.

[kam]

I think a lot of responses here are about unions in general and a lot of folks are failing to see that admins within a municipality are generally treated differently, and oftentimes more poorly, than others within the same municipality.

[kiddo]

I think a lot of responses here are about unions in general and a lot of folks are failing to see that admins within a municipality are generally treated differently, and oftentimes more poorly, than others within the same municipality.

Yes we are. Another example is for non-union employees, full time with full time benefits is defined as 40 hours. Anything less than that an you only receive 3/4 benefits. We have employees working as many as 39 hours a week and are still considered 'part-time'. Union employees are considered full time at 32 hours.

I keep getting asked by my boss if I want to work another day (I have Fridays off), which would but me at 37.5 hours and my response has always been only if I get full time benefits. Everytime the selectment reject making me full time. They want me to work more, but they don't want to pay me full benefits. One of these times I'm afraid my boss will tell me that either I work the 37.5 hours at part time benefits or find a new job.

[scout]

My mom was part of an admin group trying to form a union in the school system. I can see people's arguments against them but especially in this type of job, I am all for them. I agree. Last year, my school district added a seventh class to teachers' schedules, without giving them pay for it. If we didn't have our teacher's union, we wouldn't necessarily get a lunch or planning period. Our union demanded that if we teach seven classes, we must get a lunch. As it is, it sucks to have to teach an extra class without pay, but at least we get time for a (22 minute) lunch. Our district is always demanding that we do more, for less pay. Teachers already do so much for no pay (coaching certain activities, chaperoning dances, grading, planning, meeting with parents, etc.) that to add yet another thing was making a lot of teachers think about leaving the profession.

[keska]

There's a union at my agency that covers all the attorneys. I am not a member right now because the monthly dues seem a little high but it doesn't make a difference. Any contract the chief counsel negotiates with the union covers all the attorneys, whether they are union members or not.

Our union did a great thing by negotiating for voluntary alternative work schedules. We can choose to work 9 hour days and get one day off every other week. Also, a few people are being allowed to start a 4/10 schedule this month as an experiment. The chief doesn't like the idea but he's willing to try it after a lot of negotiating from our union rep.

The downside to unionizing is that the contract really locks everybody in - sometimes with silly results. For instance, I started this job just after the sign up window for alternative work schedules and because the contract only allows us to sign up twice a year, I had to work six months before I could take advantage of the program that everyone else was already using. Also, the admin staff has their own union contract. They are hourly employees. We've been told that at 4:15 if we even see them working, we have to tell them to stop. They can't do so much as make a photocopy after the scheduled quitting time. That's a little extreme.

[kiddo]

Also, the admin staff has their own union contract. They are hourly employees. We've been told that at 4:15 if we even see them working, we have to tell them to stop. They can't do so much as make a photocopy after the scheduled quitting time. That's a little extreme.

That's not really a union thing, it's an FLSA OT thing. The company probably doesn't want to pay them OT. If you require or allow someone to work over 40 hours, you need to pay them OT. Granted, the union probably helps enforce it, but it is something the non-exempt iemployee is entitled to anyway.

[keska]

Yes, you're right. Working more than 40 hours would be an OT thing. However, the admin staff has different hours than the attorneys by terms of their union contract, so the issue it presents sort of crosses over. The admin people leave at 4:15, everyone else stays and works later.

[Kristy]

Yes, I would join a union. My father was a union grievence officer and eventually union president at his job for many years. In his line of work (he worked in the steel mills), unions are almost a necessity. They really do take care of the workers. He worked hard to make sure they were treated fairly, and even now, 2 years retired, he's still called back to help with situations that arise.

I wish I had a union at my school. There have been many times when I've been treated unfairly, and had there been a union, someone could have helped me out. I think they're great for the people who have them, when they're run by the right people.

[Blondie]

I am not happy with being in a union. Part of it stems from lack of choice and that is just something I don't agree with. I am basically forced to pay union dues. Well, my option of course is to get a job somewhere else, but that is sort of hard to do when EVERY hospital in this town is union except ONE and they don't have any open positions. And there are 7 hospitals here. I am paying around $75.00 a month in dues. It pisses me off when I am getting the same 3 % raise/year that I would get at a non union facility. And out of all the hospitals I have worked for (this being the only one that is union) I have had superior benefits at all of them. And the health insurance that I get now is the worst I've ever had. So I don't really understand what this union is doing for me and with the money that I am giving them every pay period. So I pay a certain percentage of my hourly rate to them and when I get the stupid 3 % increase, my union dues also increase. So what is the point? Oh except that none of the employees who have the worst work ethic can ever be fired. I'm sorry I don't get it. I know that they were necessary in their time and maybe even still in some fields but I am very frustrated by this. The union that I belong to seems only to serve the people running the union and I feel powerless just having to hand them my money every pay period. It would be one thing if there was a choice, but there isn't and I don't think that is fair.

[Chimichanga]

I would sign the card at a minimum. It will give you time to think about it more, but it sounds like your mind might be made up.

I grew up in a union family (not admins) so I really don't have a negative perception of unions at all. DH is in a union now (UPS) and he doesn't like it but he can't tell me WHY. I think his dad always put down unions - since he didn't pass the tests back in the day. But, we get so many benefits from his union I think he's crazy.

If I could, I would join a union now, but there's not one that covers my industry.

[jnettie]

In my previous job, at a private college, there was no union, and it sucked. We were taken advantage of all the time. I was salaried as part time, but practically worked full time hours and had no benefits.

I now have basically the same job at a public university and am in a union, and I wouldn't give it up for anything. It really guarantees me so many things I wouldn't get at my former job. My dues are only $26/month. Totally worth it.

I do agree that sometimes the union doesn't help, but IMO, this is when the union gets too focused on raises alone, and not the well-being of the employees as a whole.

I also do independent contract work in the arts, which has it's union and non-union components. As non-union in that arena, I'm lucky if I get paid at all sometimes. Forget any other protections.

[miel]

We were taken advantage of all the time. I was salaried as part time, but practically worked full time hours and had no benefits.

Yes, that is right. At my school the adjuncts have health insurance and benefits. Why? Because there is a union. They have incredible job security, actually. It is greatly beneficial to them. I mean, there may be a few wrinkles to it. Maybe they have too much job security in a certain way but I guess that is better than not enough.

It makes me sad to read the things people say about unions here. Unions have done so much for this country but I think it is clear some unions are not communicating with their members and also may not be run well. Historically, unions dramatically changed working conditions for working people. Lots of people owe their health insurance and wages and hours and vacation time to unions. But I pretty much think if people are so unhappy with their unions then either their unions are badly run (very possible) or else their unions are not making it clear what they are doing. A well-run union is great. It's too bad some unions do not have their act together.