Egypt

[thompso2]

My DH and I are planning a trip to Egypt in October with another couple, and we're struggling a bit with the itinerary. We've never been to the Middle East or North Africa, and I'm afraid we may be trying to pack too much into a 9-10 day trip. Unfortunately, given our friends' work schedules, we can't stay longer, and we'd really like to visit Petra in addition to seeing Cairo and the major attractions on the Nile. I'm hoping that some of you have been to Egypt and can comment on whether our plans are realistic!

Our current itinerary is as follows:

Friday - depart US on overnight flight
Saturday - arrive Cairo
Sunday - visit the Pyramids & Sphinx, Memphis and Sakkara or Dahshur ; sleeper train to Aswan
Monday - board Nile Cruise at Aswan; visit High Dam, Obelisk and Philae Temple
Tuesday - Nile Cruise; visit Kom Ombo & Edfu Temples
Wednesday - Nile Cruise; visit Valley of the Kings, Hatshepsut Temple, Karnak and Luxor Temples
Thursday - Nile Cruise ends in Luxor; sleeper train or flight to Cairo
Friday - daytrip to Petra, Jordan (http://www.memphistours.com/Sightseeing/Cairo_Petra_Tours_&_Travel_from_Cairo_157.php) (?)
Saturday - Cairo; visit the Egyptian Museum, the Citadel and Old Cairo (including the Khan El-Khalili Bazaar)
Sunday - Cairo; see Coptic Cairo (Hanging Church & Abu Serga), Ben Ezra Synagogue and the Alabaster Mosque
Monday - depart Cairo

I'm wondering if the trip to Petra is just too much. Can anyone comment on whether it's likely to be worthwhile, or whether we should spend an extra day in Luxor instead? Have we planned to much time in/around Cairo?

Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome!

[twainny]

Hi Thompso2 - youre in luck - I live in Cairo! We just moved here, but I have already learned a lot. I am jealous about you getting to go to Petra, I SOOO want to do that (we may move to Jordan, so I have time).

Friends of ours happened to be in Egypt the week after we got here. They had about the same itinerary as you have, except they didn't do the cruise, they just went to Luxor on their own. They then came back and said that the Egyptian Museum was dumb, since they had just come from the valley of the kings and queens. They also said that the pyramids at Giza were the low light of their trip. (honestly, I have been there a few times, and I think they are AWESOME!) We have also been to Dahshur, you can go in the Red Pyramid, that was cool. :)

Which cruise are you taking? We are thinking of going in April this year. Also, if you don't mind me asking, how much is the cruise costing? I looked it up online, and it is super expensive!

Don't know how much advice to give you (ie, do you know about getting your visa at the airport, do you know about tipping/cabs?) How much do you know about Egypt in general?

Let me know what else you need to know.

[tonic]

I really want to visit Egypt someday. This is probably a stupid question, but how safe is it to visit?

[twainny]

tonic - it is safe. As a westerner, female, & blond, I do not feel apprehensive to go out by myself. But I also live in a very well to do part of town, that is overloaded with Americans, Canadians and Europeans. Most of the Egyptians in our part of town speak some English, some (like the baker) surprisingly well. There are parts of town that don't see Westerns at all, and they just STARE at me (well, everyone stares, cause it is the culture). Not much English is spoken in those parts of town. My older son is VERY blond, and rather cute (if I do say so myself!), and both men and women will touch his head and young girls give him kisses on the cheeks!

I will say that, when doing touristy things, the first question we get asked is "are you american?" (I really want to say "NO, we are canadian" so they will leave us alone, but DH says I can't) Cause they know that allllll Americans are wealthy and they want in your pocket!

Cairo is a city of 20+million, so I am sure there is petty crime, but you have that in every town in the US. You mostly have to worry about fender benders as traffic is really bad here and there are no rules on the road (which can make driving surprisingly fun and yet deathly scary at the same time!)

[thompso2]

Thanks, twainny! We got quotes for a 3-night/4-day Nile cruise from Travcotels (http://travcotels.com/) and Egypt Highlights (http://www.egypthighlights.com/Program.aspx?PID=151) -- both were pretty reasonable; the second one is cheaper, but you don't know precisely which ship you'll get until you book.

We're trying to decide on hotel in Cairo. We're looking at one option a few miles from the Pyramids, and another a few blocks from the Egyptian Museum. Do you have a sense of which area might be preferable? We're hoping for something reasonably safe and with restaurant options -- we don't want to be stuck eating at the hotel, necessarily. (Actually, any restaurant recommendations you have would be much appreciated!)

[twainny]

thompso2 - I would say that you should stay in Zamalek. It is in between the museum and the pyramids. Friends of ours stayed at Hotel Longchance (I think that was the name) I have no idea what the rates are though. They did what you are doing, cario - luxor- cairo, the first night in Cairo they stayed at The Paris Hotel, and they didn't like it so they got a room in Zamalek.

[twainny]

oh, taking a cab in the downtown area shouldn't cost more than $5. So really, either the Pyramids or the museum isn't a big deal to get to anything else.

How do you plan to get to Memphis, Dahshur and Sakkara? Just wondering.

There is a tour company here called SEEqypt, and I can e-mail you their brochure. Their website sucks, so don't bother with it! They are the "go to" company for foreigners who live here.

[thompso2]

We're planning on booking a guide/driver for the trip to the Pyramids, Memphis and Dahshur. I've been looking at a few private day tours, but I'd love the SEEgypt brochure -- I'll PM you. Thanks!

We're leaning toward the Osiris Hotel (http://osirisegypte.free.fr/English%20version/Main%20page/Main%20Page.htm) -- I've heard great things about it. The Hotel Longchamps (http://hotellongchamps.com/) looks good too, though.

[twainny]

hotel longchamps is where my friends stayed. They liked it.

The other hotel website actually makes Cairo look nice!!! It actually looks like the air is clean!! Okay, I shouldn't say that, I haven't been here in the summer. Since we have been here it has been so polluted, it is just gross. But they are burning the fields now, so it is worser than normal. (and dont you love the shower stall with no curtain! LOL)

I would suggest hiring someone to get you through the airport and help you get your visa. I assume you are flying via Frankfurt or London. If you are coming from London, I think the flight gets in at midnight, you will be tired and might not want to deal with things on your own. I lined up a guy from CarlsonWagonlit to pick up my friends. It is $35 and the cost of the visa ($15/pp). and they will drive you to your hotel. Might be something you should think about doing.

[tonic]

tonic - it is safe. As a westerner, female, & blond, I do not feel apprehensive to go out by myself. But I also live in a very well to do part of town, that is overloaded with Americans, Canadians and Europeans. Most of the Egyptians in our part of town speak some English, some (like the baker) surprisingly well. There are parts of town that don't see Westerns at all, and they just STARE at me (well, everyone stares, cause it is the culture). Not much English is spoken in those parts of town. My older son is VERY blond, and rather cute (if I do say so myself!), and both men and women will touch his head and young girls give him kisses on the cheeks!

I will say that, when doing touristy things, the first question we get asked is "are you american?" (I really want to say "NO, we are canadian" so they will leave us alone, but DH says I can't) Cause they know that allllll Americans are wealthy and they want in your pocket!

Cairo is a city of 20+million, so I am sure there is petty crime, but you have that in every town in the US. You mostly have to worry about fender benders as traffic is really bad here and there are no rules on the road (which can make driving surprisingly fun and yet deathly scary at the same time!)

Thanks for the information. I really hope to visit Egypt someday.

[thompso2]

We'll either fly direct from NYC (getting in at 9:30 am) or we'll fly via Amman (getting in at 8:15 pm). If we arrive in the morning, we were planning to just deal with the visas and getting to the hotel ourselves, but if we arrive in the evening we'll definitely want professional help. $35 (plus the visa) isn't too bad, maybe we should go for it either way.

[twainny]

I will ask my friends who were just here what they thought (they arrived at midnight). This is how it was when we arrived.

We flew from DC to Frankfurt to Cairo. We got in around 5pm. My husband, me, by 2.5 yo and my 4 month old. We had 2 strollers (gate checked, that weren't there when we got off the plane), 5 carry ons and 8 HUGE BAGS. We arrive, we are all tired, I hadn't slept since the states, the kids barely slept. It is warm, not hot, in the 80s. We waited for our strollers (needed them to carry the 5 carry ons and the baby). They weren't there. Some senior Egyptian guy is yelling to some workers, someone freaking takes my baby (in his carrier) and the senior guy says to follow him. You walk to "immigration" there are tons of Egyptians, all pretty much yelling, someone kept showing us a sign and asking if it is us (a name on the sign, there weren't too many families on the plane, and it turns out the people also had two kids the same age). It is dirtier than dirtier. My baby is crying, my 2 yo is trying to pick up m&ms off the floor that he dropped. He starts crying. Finally someone from my husbands work shows up, and the first thing he says is "sir, you did not give anyone any money, did you?" LOL (tipping is a big thing over here) they load all the stuff into a van and we take drive.

The first thing the driver says is "don't worry... leave the driving to me." Hmm, okay. Yeah.... OHMIGOD... driving is CRAZY! I was so scared, I totally thought we were all going to die (okay, maybe that is a little over the top). There is SOOOO much going on.. people walking everywhere, cabs stopping anywhere to let people out, mules pulling carts, cars driving the wrong way on the road, people running across the HIGHWAY (and yes, even when the cars are going 60mph!). It is nuts! (we have been here 2 months, and my husband has had at least 3 fender benders and he had his side mirror taken off!) There are speed bumps everywhere, they streets are not wide enough for two cars to get down them... it is nuts! oh wait I already said that. And you need a good horn here... you honk for no reason at all!

thompos2 - try to figure out when Ramadan is this year... I would try hard to avoid it if possible. I know it is a month long, so it might be hard. I know it was in Oct last year (I believe it moves 10 days earlier every year). I don't think a lot gets done, and you may find it hard to find food places open during the day. And you shouldn't eat or drink in the open during Ramadan (though I don't really think that pertains to tourists as much as it does to local residents).

Also, you can look at this website, it offers tours too.... http://www.livinginegypt.orgI have not been on one (cause of the kids) but others say they are good.

[twainny]

here is the website for the cruise that I want to take

http://www.sonesta.com/Nilecruises/

click on St. George I

everyone RAVES about it. I guess the ship is really new and clean. For us it ranges in price from $100-$250/night/person. I really want to go in March. Did I mention above that it is normal 20 degrees warmer in Luxor than Cairo?

[thompso2]

Ramadan is supposed to be September 2 to October 2 this year, so we're planning to come about a week later. (My DH was in a country with a large Muslim minority during Ramadan once and he said it was hard to go anywhere or get anything done, so we'll definitely schedule around it for our trip to Egypt.)

I've heard great things about the Sonesta cruises generally -- if the St. George I had a 3-night/4-day schedule starting Monday or Tuesday, I'd be very, very tempted to splurge. Have you heard anything about any of these ships?
M/S Adonis
M/S Hamees
M/S Crowne Emperor or M/S Crowne Empress
M/S Zina
M/S Alyssa

[twainny]

I will ask around. I should be getting the Seegypt brochure today. I will send it when I get it. Also, a friend has some company in, and they are using Carlson Wagonlit. I believe they have a store the street over from where I live, I will try to see if they have anything they can e-mail me too.

Oh, a friend just used SeEgypt to just go to Luxor (they stayed at a hotel). She said it was great! So I guess you can't really go wrong.

[twainny]

In Cairo EVERYTHING (and I mean everything) can be delivered. Here is a website for restaurants http://www.otlob.com and click on the area where your hotel is to see what restaurants are around. Will also give you an idea how much food costs. The exchange rate is $1 = 5 LE (give or take).

I have the SeEgypt brochure, but for some reason it isn't letting me forward it, so I tried to cut and paste to word, but it says I don't have enough memory. I am not a computer genius - hope to send it out soon!

[thompso2]

Thanks for the restaurant website -- there are some very tasty-looking choices!

[twainny]

I went to Zamalek for the first time. That is a cool part of town!! That would be a great place to stay!

I finally sent the brochure! You should have it now!

Thompso2- what airline are you flying?

[thompso2]

I got the brochure, thanks! And we're either flying Delta or Royal Jordanian -- we haven't quite firmed up our itinerary (if we decide to go to Petra, we'll probably fly Royal Jordanian, otherwise Delta flies direct from NYC).

[twainny]

thompso2- a friend of mine just had friends in town. They did cairo in a week. not a problem at all! You can do all the pyramids in a day. I know Giza opens at 8am and that Dashour and Saqara close at 4 or 4:30, so plan accordingly. I believe it is 25 EGP to get onto each site and then 25 EGP (plus tip) to go into the pyramids.

Make sure when you visit old cairo, that you have something to cover your hair.

how are you planning to get around? Taxi? Just wondering.

[thompso2]

Thanks, Twainny -- we ended up booking our trip through American Express Travel (we found an agent who specializes in Egypt and the Middle East), and we'll have a private guide/driver in Cairo (plus a shared guide on the Nile cruise).

[twainny]

Then you are totally set! You should have a wonderful trip! I am starting to get friends and relatives booked to come visit! I would love to hear about your trip when you get back to the states! I love to hear other peoples opinions of it here. I really we see it differently living here than people visiting.

Always keep your camera handy - even sitting in traffic. Just today we saw (another) family on a motorcycle, mom sitting side saddle, holding a baby... weaving in and out of traffic... SOOOO scary!