Daughters of Toxic Parents

[Soulmate]

I wanted to start this thread as a place for us, as women, to process about sorting through the difficult experiences and decisions with regard to our dysfunctional and toxic parents. This group stems from a situation detailed here: DS' relationship with g'ma: when to cut it off? (http://www.constantchatter.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1612882&posted=1#post1612882)

This is a place for support and advice without judgment for those dealing with the losses and struggles created by these relationships.

[seastars]

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[camberne]

Hi, my name is Alice, and my toxic SOB father is dead I'm glad to say. He was an alcoholic for most of my life and made the choice of alcohol over a relationship with me when I finally got past the horrible things that he did under the influence and tried to reconcile with him. I finally cut the ties with my father when my son was three-ish (he's almost 16 now), because I wasn't going to expose another generation to the life I lived through. He died a few days before I got engaged to my non-drinking husband. Good riddance!! (Gosh, I sound bitter, huh?)

[eponymous]

Hi, my name is my name (sorry, bad joke based on my user name).

My name is Kitlyn, and I'm the child of toxic parents. My mother was mentally ill as well as physical disabled. She died when I was a teenager, only a few months after my other surrogate parent. (My biological father is alive, but was not a part of my life growing up.) My mother, as a solo parent, had enormous influence over me with nothing to check it - I was an only child, as was she, and I didn't know my father's family, so there were no siblings, aunts/uncles, or cousins to keep her behavior in check or help me realize that she was crazy. She died before I was old enough to realize that our parents can be flawed and I struggled for five or six years after her death believing that her comments about me (horrible human being, didn't deserve to be alive) were true. This was intensified by the people around me - of course, we don't say bad things about our parents and we don't say bad things about the dead, and when the dead are your parents... well, they were perfect, right?

It took me years to realize that my mother's behavior was abuse (physical as well as emotional) and that she was ill, and then years to "get over" the damage from her abuse. I'm still not "over it" and probably never will be, but I'm honestly grateful that she's dead so that I don't face the sorts of issues that Soulmate and others are facing. Then, of course, I'm a terrible terrible person to acknowledge something like that, right? It's a never-ending cycle.

[camberne]

I'm still not "over it" and probably never will be, but I'm honestly grateful that she's dead so that I don't face the sorts of issues that Soulmate and others are facing. Then, of course, I'm a terrible terrible person to acknowledge something like that, right? It's a never-ending cycle.Hey, that's what I said, too!! I felt like a huge weight was lifted from me when I got the news that my father died. There was no more wondering if he was going to show up in my life, on my doorstep, or call my house. I can walk outside in the dark and not wonder if he is lurking in the bushes (which was a real and justified concern for many many years).

So don't feel like you're a bad person for enjoying that she's dead, because I'm sure we're not the only folks who feel that way about the toxic people in our lives.

[seastars]

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[seastars]

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[PinkMartini]

I have an addict of a mother who is also bi-polar...

My childhood was anything from 'sunshine & roses', my parents sometimes chose drugs/alcohol over feeding myself and my 2 brothers. I grew up in a very dysfunctional house and at the time, both of my parents were toxic. I question what ever made them think they should have children....

My dad has been clean & sober for going on 10 years now and the r/s we have is 'ok.' He was a heavy pot smoker/drinker throughout my whole childhood. What cleaned him up was loosing his job (he was out of work for 3 years - while we lived with my grandparents) and got into a car accident while driving drunk/high almost killing himself. Now we talk about once a month, he sends $$$$ for birthday/christmas presents for my 2 children, I email him pictures/updates, ect. He has a hard time showing emotion (doesn't say he 'loves me' even though I know he does) but I chalk that up to his own childhood. He seperated from my mother 15 years ago and as to why they've never officially gotten a divorce, I have no clue. They both have SO's at this point (for a few years now actually).

My mother has been clean & sober for (AFAIK anyway) going on 3 years. She was heavily addicted to meth throughout my whole childhood and finally got clean went she went to prision for 18 months, 3 years ago. While she was in prision they diagnosed her as bi-polar (although I have a feeling she's been bi-polar since before I was even born). She suffers from extreme depression and while she is on meds (and takes them) they don't help her that much. My youngest brother & I are really the only ones in the family that have a r/s with her. My middle brother holds a grudge against her (which I completely understand) from our childhood and my dad will be polite when he sees/talks to her (which isn't often). I talk with her almost daily and so does my youngest brother. Sometimes when she is going through one of her mood swings, I feel EXTREME guilt when just have to get off the phone. I just can't handle it anymore. I haven't really changed anything in our r/s because I really am one of the only people left in her life. My DH has lots of problems with her (although they are polite around each other it's a huge strain when they are around each other) and although I've tried to keep him out of 'the drama' sometimes I need his support, kwim? She absolutely adores my children and loves being a grandma. I don't know if I'd ever cut off all contact with her because of the health problems she has - in addition to the mental health problems. She has late stage emphysema and I honestly don't see her living another 20 years (and she's only 45) :( I feel like if I did I'd regret it for the rest of MY life. I love her and she's gotten a lot better now that she's clean & sober, I can only hope she'll stay that way (now that she's off monitoring probation)....

[camberne]

We actually got the call about my father dying. One of my brothers (who my father absolutely hated, and who did not have contact with my father for over 30 years) went up immediately to see him. I was actually going to go (so that my now-husband could meet him and so I could say goodbye), but he died the day before we planned to go (we were going to go up Friday night, he died on Thursday). At first, I felt bad that I didn't get to see him, but then I know that nothing would have changed. He had the opportunity to apologize several times, but he always made everything about him. He blamed me for not picking up the phone to call him or to write him... why should I have?? He was such a victim in his own mind, never acknowleging what he did to us and how it affected all of us.

I don't regret initially trying to re-establish a relationship with him once; but after he blew that with me, I felt no desire to try again. And I feel absolutely NO guilt whatsoever about it!! Oh, and I have to add... he died from cirrhosis of the liver. So, the alcohol that he just couldn't bear to give up for us is what ended up killing him.

[Lizard]

You have no idea how much the creation of this group made me smile. :)

I'm Liz. My mother is the main parent that I have issues with, although certainly my stepdad is involved too. Both my parents are recovering alcoholics and drug users, and have been clean from that for 15-20 years. However, my mother is now addicted to prescription pain meds, and my dad is addicted to poker.

I've decided over the last year that my mom is mentally insane. She has phobias for everything... riding in a car, swimming, airplanes, talking to people, being out in public, etc.. She doesn't drive, she's hasn't held a job since she was a teenager. She doesn't get her hair cut, go out to eat, do ANYTHING. All she does all day is sleep, pop pills and call me. Sometimes she will try to call me 10 times a day. I've stopped picking up, for the most part. She does make friends once in a while... more on that later.

She has ailments, but I can't distinguish her real ailments from her fake ones. Off the top of my head, she has degenerative joint disease, emphysema, fibromyalgia, high blood pressure, TMJ, thyroid issues, allergies... oh gosh, who knows. Any time my daughter or I get sick, she all of a sudden gets the same thing. Funny, since we live 8 hours away. Even when I was pregnant with #1, she was telling me how she was having morning sickness, contractions, etc. I'm sure she has legit illnesses, but I've stopped wasting my time trying to figure out what's legit and what's real anymore.

The pill addiction started probably 10 years ago and is just getting worse. She's been kicked out of 1 pain clinic (although she claims the doctor "hated her"), and is currently in another. I can always tell she gets a new script, because she calls me totally high, slurring her words. I've called her bluff on it but she just denies and says she's tired. Whatever. She also goes to Urgent Care 1-2 times a month for pills, I think because they don't report to her pain doctor.

She's said on multiple occasions that she still believes that I'm 15-16 years old. I'll be 33 on Friday. She doesn't like my husband because he's "too normal". She thinks I should have married a long-haired musician or an ex-con. She's always trying to stir up stories about my husband, and I'm 99% positive that she's told my relatives that he is controlling and abusive. She loves telling people that DH reminds her of her dad, and then in the next sentence talk about how her dad beat her up all the time (which I'm not sure happened anyways, her brothers say it never happened).

Her and my dad are constantly befriending unsavory people. Her current "best friend" is a 20 year old guy that showed up at their door looking for work. They hired him to paint their house, and were friends with him for several months. She would call me and tell me he was "my brother", so perfect and wonderful, she wishes I'd be friends with him, etc. He ended up getting arrested after a police chase, for an outstanding drug warrant. Also, he gave my parents a fake name! My mom forgave him, writes to him in prison and constantly talks about him and how great he is. When he gets out, him and my dad are supposedly starting a business together. sigh.

God, I could go on and on. I haven't even said anything about real specific things she's done. I'll save more for another time. Let's just say that I need this support group so, so much. I'm an only child so this burden falls squarely on me. I've been to counseling about it, and it helped, but it's still so hard.

[Natasha]

Hi, my name is Natasha, and I have a toxic mother. She is a drug/alcohol addict who has been clean and sober for 7 years now.

Our relationship now is passable, but it is much more of a friendship than a mother/daughter relationship. She is good with my kids, for the most part, and we get along ok. She strongly favors my younger sister, probably because my sister has little to no memory of our childhood.

As a kid, she and my parents divorced when I was 4, and she got custody of us. She was physically and verbally abusive, and her custody of us ended when she left my 6 month old brother (who has a different, unknown father) home by himself and drove my 6 year old sister and me (8 years old) out to a deserted mountain road and left us there to live with the wild animals, because we didn't deserve a real home.

She got visitational custody of us a year or two later, and was still verbally abusive and, well, just odd. I won't go into too much detail, because it is embarrassing. She and I routinely fought, and she would leave me in parking lots and on the side of roads because she knew how much it freaked me out. To this day, I have an huge fear of abandonment.

She had small bouts of sobriety, but she went through "recovery" at least 4 times between me being 8 and 18. She finally sobered up for good the summer I turned 18 after being arrested and detained for 60 days, missing my brother's 10th birthday, for multiple DUI citations.

I am still a little bit bitter about her sobriety not coming until I was an adult, but at least it happened. We didn't get close again until I was single and pregnant at 19 years old. My children have brought us closer, and for the most part, she is a good grandma. She loves my kids, although she is not one of those grandma's who wants to baby sit or help out. She likes being around them, and likes their affection, but that's about it.

She is a very strange person, and she often makes me slightly uncomfortable. she licks my kids faces, talks to me about her sex life, and often refers to me on how to parent my 17 year old brother. In fact, he has come to stay with me several times in the hopes of getting him "straightened up".

Basically, she is completely self absorbed and always, always thinks of herself first. I love her, and I am glad we are closer now. But, she was extremely toxic when I was a child, and while she is pretty harmless now, she is in no way a parent. I always wished for a real "mom", the way I had thought of a mom to be. Now, I try hard everyday to be that for my children.

[isign]

I'm really glad this thread was formed. I love my mother, I do, she gave me life, but at times I really do not like her. She is controlling and is manipulative. I am only just starting to see how bad it is. She's perfected the guilt trip which comes between myself and DH. She really does not respect my marriage, and refused to be sensitive to our IF issues, saying it wasn't like I had diabetes or anything. Two of my brothers had 3 children before DH and I were able to get pg. One was engaged and my mom insisted I attend then FSIL's shower, despite my struggle and emotions on the subject. After promising to only stay 30 minutes max, we stayed the entire shower and I fought tears through the whole thing.

She favors my niece over DS, even going so far as to give niece her own room in the house they are building and not doing anything for DS. They live 30 min from us, but haven't been at our house, except for one incident when we were doing something for them, since DS was 3 weeks, and he is almost 4 months. We asked if they would baby-sit so we could go to DH's work party that was down the road from our house. It was fine if we took him there, but she would never give us an answer on coming here. Finally DH called MIL who lives 1 1/2 hours away, and she and FIL came to stay the weekend. My mom was 'relieved' because they had work to do on the house they are selling.

DS was recently in the emergency room, DH was at work and I was alone. Later we (DH too) were sent via ambulance to a major hospital 1 1/2 hours away. She didn't even come to see or help, but instead said she was sick and had to do something for church instead.

I have major guilt issues over how I deal with this. I try to 'keep the peace' for my dad's sake, but I'm so ready to cut ties. The only reason I don't is because I want DS to know I've done whatever I can to let him know his grandparents. At times I am just at my wits end.

[Soulmate]

Wow, I'm really glad so many people are sharing their stories as I resonate with different parts of everyone's story.

seastars I work with teenagers who, many, are on the road to being borderline (can't diagnose until they are 18) so I can totally see what you are talking about. I've seen 13 years olds manipulate and con like no one has ever seen and can win academy awards for their fake behavior (usually being "sad" or "angry"). But people with borderline are extremely difficult as they often suck people in with a great deal of charm and appeal and then turn on you in a very major way the second they think you've crossed them or you stop letting them control you. I often refer to them as a puffer fish. They swim around very innocently until you get close and then their spines come out. Unfortunately those closest to them (usually only children since they are not capable of true intimacy) suffer tremendously. I'm so sorry what happened to you with custody...how completely terrifying!

eponymous I don't think it is bad at all to be happy a parent is dead. I think it is healthy as it means you acknowledge what she did was wrong. If it was a stranger their would be no shame in feeling that way. I think it is worse when a *mother* does the same thing a stranger would feel the right to do. I had a similar experience as my brother left the house after my parents divorced when I was 8 and to the outside world my mom was caring, bubbly, and innocent. Absolutely NO ONE ever ever checked on me or asked me how I was doing. That is why I wrote in the original thread that I have a real time really figuring out what is real and what is right and wrong. My mom's crazy rationalizations and thinking was real to me and now I have to realize that it is not. It is hard being a parent and really trying to figure out what to say no to and what to really teach them in the day to day as I was pretty neglected except for basic needs. This board has helped me in more ways than anyone could ever know.One thing that's helped - not cured, but helped - is articulating some of my grief as not missing the person, but "grieving the dream": in the parental context, mourning that I never had healthy parents and a safe childhood.OMG this is so me too. I was so upset when my mom came to visit DS when he was 4 weeks old because that was when she died to me and I lost my mother. Up until then I had this delusion of who she was (ditzy, not knowing any better, etc). What made me most upset was that my SIL is so much like her (but not crazy) and I even said to my mom during the argument after her visit that my SIL is more of the daughter she wanted and that she lost the chance to really be my mother. She agreed (but not in a bad way, but a finally truthful, revealing way). What that means for me is that my SIL gets the mother she always wanted (seemingly nurturing & accepting) and I get nothing. I cried so badly that I just wanted my mommy. I wanted a mommy from birth who would just hold and love me and give me kisses and keep me warm. But no matter what I don't have that nor is that ever possible. I find so much joy in being that for DS and it is sort of like re-parenting myself in a way if that makes sense.Sometimes I'm angry - and tired - that so much of my adult life has to include learning to love, trust and set boundaries: lessons that other people learned in childhood.This is so incredibly true for me too. I still have to learn trust but I've come a long way. But I am so angry that I had to learn this the hard way and experiences the scars and bruises from having to do it on my own. But I also feel so much stronger and completely resilient. Even if the apocalypse came I know, for a fact, I would make it through and keep my family safe. There is nothing I can't face. Plus I can see dysfunction from a mile away so it has kept me from some pretty bad situations.

guilt when they die Nope. I've tried. Over and over and over again. I know my mom like the back of my hand. Better than she knows herself. I don't need to keep experiencing that crap and put my family through that "to get time in" before she dies. Sorry, she made that bed. I just hope she gains some clarity in the afterlife.

Natasha What your mom did you you and your siblings sound so horrible :( That is the part I really don't get. How in the hell do you do that to children? Your children? I'm so glad she has been able to straighten up enough to be a good grandmother. I can imagine though there would be some jealousy.

isign I think your mom and my mom could be BFFs :( My mom constantly thinks DH and I are going to get a divorce and/or unhappy. After I had a miscarriage and was crying on the phone to her about it she sent me a package of children's books "for my future children". I was still bleeding when I got it. Since I was 18 she's come to visit me maybe 3 times and she travels all around the country many times a year. The only reason I don't is because I want DS to know I've done whatever I can to let him know his grandparents.This was the same thought I had that led to me asking the question in the original thread. But I realized that I didn't want DS to know that. I grew up with my mother thrusting me into her dysfunctional family "to keep the peace" and to "be together as a family". I resent her so much for that more than anything because she never protected me. Never told them no. Not to mentioned totally ruined the concept of christmas for me. Even to this day I feel guilt about not letting my mom experience being a grandmother to my son. But then I remember how much she rubs in being "grandma" to a friend's daughter. I see it that she hasn't earned the right to be around someone so amazing as DS and it is my job to make sure that, no matter who you are, that right has to be earned.

Does anyone struggle with having compassion for the parent(s)? I guess my problem is that I have a background in psychology so I know full well how much all of this stems from their own trauma. I know my mom experienced a lot of bad stuff and stuff I know happened but no one has ever admitted to. I know she has been damaged by someone just as she has damaged me. On one hand I do feel for her but on the other hand, she had choices. I am healthy and I worked my ass off to get here. She had the same choice but she chose to bury her head in the sand. But I still can help but wish that she was never hurt so that I was never hurt and had the change at experiencing an authentically loving mother. It is hard being bitter and angry and trying to see them as human.

[Natasha]

I have no idea how someone does that to their kids. I just don't. And, since she was using at the time, she very conveniently blames all of what she did on her problem. :p

I definitely struggle with compassion for her. I know her life was not all that bad, and she made some pretty dumb choices that led her down the path she chose. I also agree that I went through some pretty horrific crap, and I am a pretty normal, loving mother, wife, family member and person in general.

I guess what makes me the most bitter is not taking responsibility for the mistakes she made, but wanting to take credit for the good things I do and am. It honestly makes my eye twitch a little when she says we're alike.

[isign]

Soulmate - yeah, I think they could be BFFs. I like what you said
I see it that she hasn't earned the right to be around someone so amazing as DS and it is my job to make sure that, no matter who you are, that right has to be earned.

I need to remember that. My mom and I just got into it over something stupid, but it was the same type of guilt, same type of fussing. Growing up, I didn't live anywhere near my grandparents, and I don't want that for him, I want him to be close, but I'm not going to let him get hurt, and I don't want him to hear DH and I arguing about it.

I do struggle with compassion for my parents. I know my mom goes off the deep end for any little stressful situation, and my dad (actually my step-dad, who adopted me) deals with it. I feel bad for that, and try not to say anything. I am a very forgiving person, but that makes it worse for this situation. I hate fighting and I hate the way I feel when we do, but when it happens, I know that no amount of talking will resolve it, so I just close myself off to the situation. I have so much frustration and anger towards them, and I hate myself for it, but on the flip side, I have to learn to deal with that.

[Lizard]

Compassion - Oh yes, I struggle with this daily. Like all 3 of you said, it's hard to find compassion for someone that doesn't even try to own up to things and continues to be a crappy person in general. I have tried in many ways to help her find herself - one year for Xmas I gave her a computer, because I thought she could get on the web, find message boards, look up things she's interested in, etc. I also got her some language software because she said she's always wanted to learn foreign languages. The software's never been touched, and all she did was complain that I didn't show her how to use the computer properly, so it's useless to her. :rolleyes: It's things like that, that make me not want to show compassion at all.

I heard something on Dr. Laura once... she said that a person has 2 chances in their life to have a parent/child relationship. Once where they're a child, and once when they have children of their own. I think of that a lot... I know that being a mother isn't quite the same as having a mother, but I'll be DAMNED if my kid is going to grow up in the same type of household I did, and be 33 years old grieving the loss of someone who hasn't even died yet.

I must say that my MIL is awesome. :) I am so grateful for her and the way she treats me. She's so normal! I can go out shopping with her and enjoy a regular conversation. It feels so alien, yet so good.

[Natasha]

I am another one grateful for my MIL, Liz. There is a pretty big culture gap (She was born in China and lived there till she was a teenager), but she is pretty normal and we get closer all the time. I also have a step mother who is not exactly normal, but since I have been an adult we have gotten pretty close. Neither of them fill the void, necessarily, but they help keep me sane. :)

[diam124]

I have to say, I am stunned by many of the stories in here. You are all amazingly strong.

My relationship with my Mom is nowhere near as difficult most of yours, but it is difficult nonetheless. She has a history of mental illness (serious depression, possibly ADHD and some OCD-tendencies as well). I love her very much, but she can be very difficult to deal with and I also struggle with the compassion issue. I truly believe that many of her actions are because of mental illness, but at the same time I need to hold her accountable for her actions. It is so tough and it seems to become more difficult as the years go by.

[isign]

I'm adding to the wonderful MIL praises. We had a rough start, but it's made me appreciate her all the more. I'm really hesitant to talk about my mom, but when she didn't show up at the hospital when DS was admitted, MIL figured out alot. It helps to talk to her, and try to get her perspective, as a mother, on things.

I have 2 questions.
How does your DH deal with your mother?
DH and I stayed up for a long time talking last night this thread, and my mother. I did not realize how much the drama and mess has taken a toll on him. He is ready to cut all ties with both of my parents, but is being patient, because it is my call, and I'm not there.

Does your mother realize what she's doing?
I'm super passive aggressive, which I know is due to the way things were handled growing up. I have a very hard time calling her on crap, mostly because it just turns into an argument. I honestly wonder if she realizes how damaging her actions are , or if she just has no clue.

[maxandmolly]

*deleted*

[Soulmate]

I wish I had a MIL I was close to. My MIL has a really big heart and cares for me but is very stoic. I will say that she loves DS to absolute pieces which makes me so happy. My step-mom has mellowed a lot but we don't have a direct relationship at all. I actually have no one in the parent generation I can count on besides my dad. Even then he can be decently self-centered but he is healthy and always there for me when I need him. That is why losing my mom was so upsetting. She showed a lot of progress and was looking a lot more like natasha and maxandmolly's moms. Then I had my son and it was like I was 16 again. I do have a role-model family in the family of a good friend of ours. It is funny because their family seems to attract all the orphans.

maxandmolly I'm sorry you had to go through the things you've been through too. It sounds like your mom is a serious survivor and even more so being able to have some clarity to realize she needs to change things. I can understand how it would be hard to be angry and I guess that compassion seriously comes into play in your situation. You still have a right to be angry though, at your grandmother, at your mom, and others who never stepped in.

How does your DH deal with your mother? DH has always been good at emotionally distancing himself from things (too much sometimes but anyway ;) ). He sees her for who she really is and is super good at setting limits when I am not seeing clearly and on auto"mom"pilot. The only time we disagree is when he wants to be a bit too harsh. My mom's christmas and birthday presents upset me so much to the point of ruining the event every single year. I've told her time and time again to send gift cards, money, or something off of my amazon wish list. She never does. He wants to send the presents back return to sender. I am not at that point where I am just going to be cruel like that. He never talks to her directly and like Lizards' mom doesn't like him because he is normal and would rather I married a biker or ex-con. DH could care less.

Does your mother realize what she's doing? That is complicated. On the surface...not at all. She thinks I am the one with the issue and does not understand why I am so upset. I try to get deep and psychological with her and she says I just don't understand her and she is "just a simple person". But what I saw when she came to visit DS proved to me she knows on some level. My step-dad has an insanely bad back and needs to be on Vicodin but can't because of an ulcer (because he puts up with my mom!). She was asking him to lift a like 150lb object she wanted to buy. I told her point blank that he shouldn't be lifting it because of his back and said so like 3 times. One of those times she said "oh, he lifts things all the time" with these cold eyes. I said, "well he shouldn't be". Once the object was in the truck (which he loaded) she broke down in this little baby voice and whimpered to my step-dad "oh Soulmate thinks I am a horrible person". I just walked away. That is when my mom died to me. She was no longer this innocent "simple" person to me. But basically, all of our mom's are trying to get their needs met. The only way they know how is through these really screwed up and hurtful means because they never learned the right way from their parents. So ultimately the answer is always "yes" they do know what they are doing but they are not always conscious of how hurtful they are and may never see that. Imagine how threatening that would be if you realized you spent your whole life leaving a huge trail of carnage just so you can survive. They built up these walls of delusions protecting themselves from that reality. I'm just not going to play that game for my own survival. And that is ok. I'd rather sacrifice my mom for the survival of myself and my whole family any day. She never sacrificed anything for me. But I call my mom on her crap all the time which is why she said in that one letter about having to walk on eggshells around me. She is conflict avoidant and I can't let issues just rest. She thinks it should be ok to continue to hurt me and I disagree. So like oil and water we need to separate. It will always be an argument until the day one of us dies. So we don't talk at all anymore.

[maxandmolly]

*deleted*

[seastars]

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[Natasha]

Soulmate, my MIL is like that to. I know she cares about me, but she struggles with showing it. She is great to our kids, even my son, who is not hers biologically. But, when we called to tell her we were having #3, her response was "oh no!". She didn't know we were trying, but still...

How does DH deal with your mother? Well, she is better now than she used to be. He basically just laughs along, and tries to be nice. He also agrees that she is crazy, and if she ever posed any sort of threat to our children at all in anyway, he would completely support me distancing ourselves from her.

Does you mother realize what she is doing/has done? Nope. She truly does not. She is so wrapped up in herself, and she has made so much progress from her past that she thinks she is "all better". She refuses to accept she has any sort of problem outside of her previous addiction issues. She thinks she is a great mom now, and a great grandmother. :rolleyes:

seastars--I was the opposite of you. I wanted so badly to replace my mother that I attached myself to any sort of mother figure I could find. This was when I was a teenager. Now I have learned that there is no replacement. I will never have the mother I imagined. All I can do is try to be a good mom to my kids. I completely understand the fear of trusting and loving again and I think you are perfectly justified in feeling that way.

A question for those of you with children:

Do you ever worry about being like your mom? I do, all the time. Any time I lose my temper with my children, it freaks me out. I actually had a good cry about this tonight because I am petrified of becoming like her. I am sure I won't as long as I am conscious of wanting to be the opposite, but it is still such a scary thought.

[K Mayer]

Hi I do not know if my situation counts but I will chime in. I grew up not knowing my father, I still do not know his name and was raised but a mother who was not able to acknowledge her feelings or emotions. I was told I was stupid when I cried. There were times that she hurt me so bad emotionally, that I would cry to her and she laugh at me and make faces at me ( ugh starting to cry as I type this ). I don't think I can type much more about my experiences.

I can say that our relationship is getting better, but that pain from not having an emotionally available parent is so hard to get over. I never had anyone to cry to or talk to as a child, I was shunned and felt shame for expressing myself. There were no male influences in my life at all. As a result, I grew up fearful of my emotions and scared to open myself to others. I was so afraid of the opposite sex. I get embarrased when I start threads asking simple questions about guys, but I am totally clueless. I currently attend therapy sessions to help me and I have gained so much strength, now I think I open up too much. I just hate that alot of my friendships are reflective of how I was treated by mother. I understand this now and I now realize I don't want these people in my life, but it is a lonely place. Hopefully, I will continue to yearn for deeper connections with people.

[seastars]

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[Niobe]

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[isign]

Do you ever worry about being like your mom?
- all the time! I see myself unconsciously rebelling against things she pushed. Example - I am not an organized person, I never have been, it's just not me. I would have to spend entire Saturday's in my room 'cleaning'. That was super important to my mom that, at the age of 8, my room be clean. I HATE to clean now, almost to a fault. DH realized long before I did why i have an issue with it.

I am so scared that I will become like my mother and am constantly second guessing myself. I never want to do to DS the things that happened while growing up, I never want him to feel about me the way I do about my mom.

[Lizard]

Do you ever worry about being like your mom? - Funny enough, I really don't. As seastars said, I spend way too much time focused on being her polar opposite. However in that respect, I think that I worry about THAT... that I'm holding myself back because I don't want to associate with things that would make people identify me with my mom... if that makes sense. For example, I don't drink... I've had maybe 5 drinks in my life, and didn't have one until I was close to 30. I know I won't turn into an alcoholic, but I still stay away from it and have a lot of anxiety about it.

How does your DH deal with your mother? - In the beginning, after he figured out how insane she is, he wanted me to sever all contact. He rarely talked to her and had no desire to. Now, he's actually gotten a lot more zen about it than I have... he can talk to her on the phone, and put on a good face when he has to. A few Christmases ago, we were at their house and taking one of our cats home with us (my mom loves cats and offered to watch ours while we lived in an apartment that wouldn't take him). She was being nuts and treating us like we were 5 year olds... telling us about how he ate, needed the litter box, etc and the whole time insinuating that we didn't know how to take care of him. This was my husband's cat for the last 10 years! He told her that he knew all this, he knew how to take care of his cat and she didn't have to worry about it - not being mad, not accusatory, just factual. Mom ran out of the room crying and screaming that we hated her, and didn't talk to us for a week. To this day, she still calls that incident "The time when your DH yelled at me and made me cry." :rolleyes:

Does your mother realize what she's doing? - Some things she does, and some things she doesn't.... I think. I really don't know. Like I said in my initial post, I really can't distinguish from fiction and reality with her anymore. She's very book smart, but yet will act sometimes like she's an idiot. Just yesterday she called... DD has been having sinus issues and is seeing an ENT. Every time she calls she has a new theory about it. She said "All the kids in our family that were born premature have problems". DD was born at 39w 2d! She knows this and I reiterated it, and she started yelling and saying that all babies that are born before their due date are premature, and babies should be born exactly on their due date, otherwise their doctor did something wrong. I am not kidding!! I have been back and forth with her about this since DD was born, but she is always telling people that DD was premature, probably to get sympathy. I don't know if she says these things to get my goat, or what.

[Niobe]

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[Natasha]

That's such an observation some of you have made, about cleaning. I am not the best house cleaner in the world, I keep the house straightened at best. I can remember my mother using a piece of cardboard to scrape all of the lint and debris out of the carpet instead of using a vacuum. She would get so fixated on one little portion of cleaning it would take her all day to get through one room, and if you messed it up afterwards, well, I am sure you can imagine. I never really thought of it that way, but it does probably have an impact on my aversion to deep cleaning.

[camberne]

Does anyone struggle with having compassion for the parent(s)? I honestly didn't because I watched what my father did to our family from the time I was 2-3 years old. I would be woken up in the middle of the night, rushed down the street in my pj's to a waiting friend in a car who drove us to the magistrate's office where I would nap on the church-like pew in the foyer. When my father was finally sent to prison when I was five, he was dried out. Then when he was released several years later, he chose to start drinking again. When I was old enough to track him down on my own, I tried to establish a relationship with him, and then again when I had my son. My father chose drinking over us... so there wasn't much compassion I could muster up for him.

How does your DH deal with your mother (father)? He didn't have to... the SOB died just before we got engaged and he never met him.

Does your mother (father) realize what s(he)'s doing? He did, as we had discussions about it after I had my son. He just believed that his drinking didn't matter and that "the past was the past" and he refused to address it, apologize for it, or acknowledge the evil he did. My father was a very suave and persuasive man. Anyone who didn't know the inner-story and was just looking at him from a stranger's perspective though that he was wonderful. Even the folks at our church who knew us, but didn't know the situation, were absolutely stunned when everything came out.

Do you ever worry about being like your mom (dad)? Oh my goodness. When I was growing up, I believed that I had "bad blood" and was very concerned about it. I thought I was cursed and wouldn't be able to overcome who I thought I was. It's one of the reasons I became a counselor (for the few years that that lasted). When I got into a scrape with the law when I was 20, I went to counseling and they dismissed any emotional problems I had in favor of "drinking issues". Um, I didn't drink except in specific circumstances because of my father. I still drink very little, and my husband doesn't drink at all. So, I wanted to be able to help people I knew were being misunderstood. Anyhow, I have been able to overcome the "bad seed" syndrome and realize that I have the choice to make my life what I want it to be... and I preach that to anyone and everyone who will listen!

[isign]

I have this same problem. My mom is crazy OCD and I swear I have developed a mental block against cleaning. I will sit in my room, staring at the mess, and just not know how to begin. I have anxiety attacks trying to find a starting place. My SO will have to actually suggest something to start with, something to move on to, etc, because it overwhelms me so bad. :o

I'm so glad I'm not alone. I'm in the middle of this now, looking at my living room. The ONLY way I can accomplish anything is to make a list of exactly what I want to clean and then mark it off as I go. I kid you not, it lists everything I want to clean - tables, couches, chairs, floor, dusting, vacuuming, everything. DH swears I have ADD as well, but I seriously can not clean just by looking at the house. I swear it's from those hours of sitting in my room, being told to clean, not really being taught how to properly clean and organize, and finding something else to do like reading a book.

[rileyandfredsmom]

Oh yes, I have toxic families....where to begin???

Mom - Mom is crazy. Pure and simple, crazy. She spent about 6 months to a year in a mental institution when I was little...she should have spent more time there. I do have to say, she had a HORRIBLE childhood and that is what scarred her so badly and put her on this path. My mother is one of the sweetest, most normal people to the outside world and if you only interact with her for a couple of minutes. When you really spend time with her...oh, say, over 30 minutes, you realize just how off she really is. Growing up she would SCREAM at us if we used her hairbrush, but we didn't have our own. As we got older, the screams would turn to threats like "when I find out who used my brush I will break every finger in your hand so you won't use it again" and then 2 minutes later she would say "RileyandFredsmom, come on in here and get your hair brushed" in the most normal way possible. :eek:

She is also a 'collector' of mail order catalogs. She has piles all over her living room. Once, when DH and I went to visit, about 10 minutes in she said, "RileyandFredsmom, get me that magazine with the shoes in it." To which I respoded "Which one?" and she started SCREAMING at me that I knew which one and that I was being mean by not getting it for her because I know she can't bend over to find it. DH came from the other room wondering what I had done but he soon realized, that is just who she is.

I find it interesting that so many of you have issues with cleaning because I do as well. Growing up, I had to make my bed every day as well as my parent's bed and if I didn't get their bed made before they got home from work, boy, oh, boy did I hear about it. My sister and I also had to do the dishes everyday and when she and dad got home from work, we would get in trouble if the dishes were still warm because we had just done them instead of doing them right when we got home from school which is when they wanted them done. Why it mattered, I still, to this day, have no idea. My mother would go on rampages about how filthy the house was because my sister and I hadn't washed the baseboards in 'weeks'...well, I never once saw her on her hands and knees washing them. To this day, I will not make-up my bed, wash baseboards and I do the dishes when I want.

So, while my mother wasn't addicted to drugs, she was and still is the most irrational, manipulative woman.

My father....well, he didn't/doesn't like me. Never has. My sister was his favorite and he showed it in every way. I am very loud, outgoing and assertive, just like my mother and he can't stand her so, naturally, I wasn't at the top of his list of favorite people. Growing up knowing you own father doesn't like you is very difficult. And to top it off, he has now become an alcoholic. My mother has very significant medical problems and there are times when he is too drunk to help her....she will call me screaming, crying, etc. but there is nothing I can do....I'm 13 hours away. Before we knew he was an alcoholic we went through a year of pure hell. We had no idea the passing out/losing consciousness, difficulty breathing, trips to the ER for falling were the result of alcohol and not the heart/lung condition he was being treated for. I went through a year of frantic phone calls of Dad back in the ER/admitted to hospital, and guilt of not being there and calls of 'he may not make it through the night' all due to his alcohol. So many calls during the middle of my workday regarding his medical status that would send me home with worry. And then, to find out all of that, all of that worry, guilt was because of alcholo....When I went back to visit 2 years ago, we had to find my dad's stash and throw it out, he was extremely mean and hateful to me...beyond words. And they wonder why I only come home every 2 years or so???!! We haven't spoken over 3 minutes at one setting in the past 2 years. He owes me an apology for the things he said and did that weekend...but as DH says, I need to stop waiting for it, it won't come.

Growing up unloved by one parent and the other so mentally unstable has made me a very cautious adult. People will tell me I'm 'odd', and I know deep down I'm not normal, my family isn't normal and they have shaped who I am today for better or worse.

[Soulmate]

Do you ever worry about being like your mom? Overall, not.at.all. In some ways yes. I catch myself saying or almost saying certain catch phrases that I used to hate especially since DS was born. But I, thankfully, take after my dad in so many ways that I don't think I could ever be like her. Like the other's I've worked incredibly hard to be the exact opposite.

cleaning I almost have the opposite problem of the PPs. My mom was not aware of certain things that she should have been aware of like the dog having worms and deep cleaning. Certain aspects of cleanliness I had to learn later and on my own. Things were not OMG disgusting but I would not want to be a visitor in my childhood home either. I of course didn't know any better. Now, I still don't like to clean but when things are not clean or even messy it really effects me emotionally. Now, I will not under any circumstances allow a plastic cup to remain in the house and just recently became ok with tupperware.

maxandmolly I had a similar situation with my mom's side of the family. After my parents divorced everyone was soooo supportive to my mom emotionally and monetarily. Did anyone ever ask about me, give me a hug, or even speak to me directly. Nope. I was left alone to the wolves while my mom got the pity party parade. Of course she was eating it up.

Natasha I think the stoicness has a lot to do with the Asian culture. DH is Korean and the first time DH heard his dad have a conversation in his presence was when he was in his late 20s.

rileyandfredsmom I think so many of us struggle with living in the "normal" world. It becomes pretty lonely when just the way you receive the world is so foreign compared to everyone else. On the positive side, I think it gives up great creative ability and to see thinks in a different light. But it is a hard road having to learn so much so late that isn't even a thought to most people.

Does anyone else have intuitive abilities? They say that children of extremely dysfunctional families develop an intuitive ability because they must learn to predict in unpredictable environments. Like that sense develops as a means of survival. Not saying that we all can predict the future but in others ways like extreme empathy, a sense of knowing, dreams, seeing/sensing spirits, etc. Mine runs in my family but so does extreme dysfunction. I just always wondered how much of that was true.

[rileyandfredsmom]

Does anyone else have intuitive abilities?

I can't predict things but I do have an amazing ability to read people and are super-sensitive to people's body language and tone. I can typically read people within one or two meetings and know who/what they are all about. For instance, I worked with a women that everyone thought was the be all/end all. I couldn't stand her. I knew she was a fake, manipulative, insecure and a user after 2 meetings with her. Now, after 2 years, the rest of the company is seeing it. People are saying the same things about her that I knew so long ago.

As a child, I had to be able to read both of my parents in order to know what kind of mood they were in, know what to expect when we walked in the door of our home after being out in public (you never knew if something you did would provoke mayhem once you crossed the threshold of the door, even if they gave no indication while out in public), know how to read their reactions to everything (even if they said one thing, you had to know to look deeper into their body language and eyes to see what was really going on).


You would think I would be a master at hiding my emotions but I am truly the opposite. My thoughts are written all over my face. I can't hide a thing!

[seastars]

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[kalogrias]

This discussion is so timely. I was just telling DH that I think I need still more therapy for the things my mother did (and I've had about 10 years of therapy) after I freaked out over a seating arrangement at a restaurant. Hmmm....need to control something, right?

My mother is...I don't know what she is. Clinically diagnosed -- she's severely depressed, OCD (but won't admit it), and a functioning (most of the time) alcoholic. My father is just absent. Mentally, physically, you name it.

But to start from the beginning...

My parents got divorced when I was 10, and the way that I found out was when we returned from vacation and he wasn't there anymore. Neither were any of his things. I supposed they somehow thought they were 'shielding' me from reality, but that's not quite how it worked out. I later found out that she left him for someone else (found this out while reading her diary to make sure she wasn't on drugs...morality of this is questionable, but I needed to know, and she's a liar).

My mother had her first nervous breakdown when I was 13. She threw me into a wall in a fit of rage. Then she just sort of collapsed. I didn't know what to do, so I just kept on living life the best way I could -- by pretending everything was fine.

We moved countries when I was 14 (back to the US; we were stationed abroad), and my mom started drinking. Then she had her second nervous breakdown where she lost all abilities to do anything that normal people do -- like buy groceries or pay bills. How she managed to stay employed is amazing to me. But she did, thank God, otherwise I have no idea what would have happened. So I did all that stuff -- bought food, paid the bills. I knew not to talk to her after 5 pm because she wouldn't remember anything the next day (black out drunk).

When I was 16, she became suicidal. There were reasons for it that I don't want to go into because they're not really relevant (related to her own past), but nothing that warranted such an outsize reaction. She told me daily that I wasn't enough to live for, and I would spend half the night at her bedside, begging her not to kill herself the next day while I was at school. While my peers were going to parties and having fun, I was rushing home to make sure my mother was still alive at 3 pm. During this time, she was completely unable to do anything (again), including care for herself. So I did that. I had to follow her around when I was home to make sure that she didn't do anything to hurt herself (or me). It wasn't fun.

During this time, I'd had enough, and I asked my Dad if I could come and live with him. He knew everything that was going on. He said no, that his lifestyle wouldn't support a teenager. Basically, good luck kid.

My mom got herself together for about a year and a half when I went off to college. She still drank, but she managed to deal with normal life. I think my leaving had a lot to do with that. Unfortunately, things went downhill again when I left for my Junior Year Abroad. While I was in London, she started spiralling out of control again -- I think it was because I was suddenly SO far away. She started calling me in the middle of the night, incessantly, only to rant and rave at me when I picked up the phone. The worst thing that she told me was that my father had never loved me, and that <insert name X> loved me more, and that he would have been the better father, etc etc etc. I finally ripped the phone out of the wall. When she couldn't get ahold of me, she showed up a few days later. SHe was chatty and normal, and told me that she was worried about me. :confused:

The summer before my senior year in college, my mom was alone at home one night. We had had the floors re-done, so the movers had been there all day. She says she was tired and slipped. I saw an empty wine glass. Whatever the reason, she fell in the tub and blew out one of her vertebrae. I was out of town, and somehow sensed something was wrong, so I asked one of her friends to check on her for me. SHe found her in a pool of blood. When I got home, I walked into a house that was covered in bloody handprints and footprints. It was something out of a horror movie.

She spent a month in the hospital, had two spinal surgeries, and told me twice (before each operation) that the reason I was making her go through this was because I wanted her dead; that I didn't want her to survive the operations. SHe still doesn't think that they were necessary (how she was going to walk with a missing vertebrae, I don't know). When I called my Dad to tell him -- and to get some support from somewhere -- all he said was, "Don't drop out of school to take care of her." Thanks a lot, Dad. The best part of this entire episode was that when the hospital asked me to bring in all her meds, I literally filled a GAP bag full of anti-depressants and other prescription meds. She told me that she would never take more than one or two and then would leave the rest...The doctor almost fell over when I handed it to him.

The year after I graduated, she met a man that she fell in love with. He's more toxic than she is, and he turned out to be abusive (physically, mentally, emotionally). Unfortunately, he lives in her apartment building in NYC, so there was no escape. Not that she wanted escape. She was so into him that she put up with all that crap, and she'd call me multiple times a day to discuss and cry about what X had done with her, to her, etc. I held an intervention the weekend after she called me in the middle of the night to tell me that he didn't believe she'd been talking to me earlier, and that the only way to prove it to him was to get me involved. I could hear him yelling in the background, and I finally told him to get the hell out of her apartment, and that if he didn't, I'd call the police and he'd lose his license (he's an anesthesiologist). The intervention didn't work.

He broke up with her about 7 times in three years. Each time, she collapsed totally. She clung to me, calling me 10+ times/day. I stopped picking up the phone at home, and she started calling me at work. Finally my boss told her to stop because it was interrupting everyone's work day (she wouldn't listen to me when I told her to stop), and she did. For about 5 months.

She's like a young teenager emotionally. And she's not getting any better. She's still clinging to the man, even though he broke up with her for the final time a year ago (because of -- get this -- he thought she drank too much). When I asked her about that, she told me that she drank because of him. Okay, whatever. She just can't move on from him, sort of like we couldn't move on from our 16 year old selves in relationships. SHe's completely obsessive -- she checks to see if his light is on when she comes home at night, or looks to see where his car is. ANd she calls me about that ALL.THE.TIME. I've told her to stop or else I just won't talk to her. ANd she does for a while. ANd then it starts up again. It's always the same -- she's so unhappy, so depressed, so upset, life isn't worth living, nothing is good, yadda yadda yadda.

Last weekend she told me that she got into a car with a friend of hers who was, in her words, "not so drunk that he was slurring" because she didn't want to walk home in the rain (she lives in NYC). I was incensed, especially because she was obviously telling me this to get a rise out of me. ANd she was drunk when she was telling me.

When I finally confronted her about her actions, she listened (I thought she was sober, turns out she was high on Ativan), and her only response -- "Yes, it was terrible, but all that matters is that you and DH have a good marriage and are happy." Nothing like having feelings completely dismissed.

Anyway, to wrap this all up...I never had a childhood because I was parenting her. Neither parent was at all supportive of anything I ever did; in fact, they both could have done a lot less damage if they had just left me alone completely. I have some compassion for my mom because her own past was very hard -- she's the daughter of a Holocaust survivor who was very (understandably) mentally twisted -- but I have no respect for her. I have huge fears of abandonment stemming from my father's treatment of me, and I react extremely negatively when I feel that people are dismissing me or else otherwise curbing my options (because I never had the chance to exercise options when I was younger; it was all about what will keep Mom in check or at bay). Hence the dinner fiasco (and I was tired and grumpy and there were a few other factors in there). I have no real direction in life because I never had the chance explore anything and, it goes without saying, I had no guidance whatsoever. So, despite being very well educated, I'm sort of floundering. I'm very lucky to have a DH who understands all this and accepts it -- and helps me through it (like one night when my Mom was high on pain meds following her surgery and she decided that I didn't need to live with her anymore and dumped all my stuff at the curb for trash pickup...DH (then BF) came over in the middle of the night to help me cart it all back into the house). He deals very well with my need for constant reassurance and my need for constant space at the same time. He can't stand the way they treat me, but he likes them as people -- as I probably would if I didn't have this history. Well, my Dad and I worked a lot of this out, so he and I are fine now, but I have no idea what to do with my mother.

Oh, and the kicker -- she's very successful professionally, and very well off. So no one believes that this crap goes on. And I have no siblings to back me up. Which makes it all even more isolating.

Phew. Thanks for reading -- if you got through all of that, KUDOS :)

I'll get to the QOTD later...DH is waiting for me...

[diam124]

While my peers were going to parties and having fun, I was rushing home to make sure my mother was still alive at 3 pm.

Oh Kalogrias, I can so sympathize with this. Before my Mom sought help for her depression I lived alone with her (older siblings were in college and Dad conveniently worked in another state). It was so tough. Thank God I had my drivers license otherwise I don't think we would have eaten! The worst part for me was that she insisted I keep her "condition" a secret from everyone. I told a close friend once (I needed to confide in someone) and my Mom apparently snooped through my desk and found a note from the friend that said something about hoping things were better with my Mom. She was so furious. That makes me mad to this day - she should have gotten counseling for both of us rather than forbid me to talk about it.

[Sha259]

It seems so sad that there are so many of us who seem to have this issue in life. :(

Hello, my name is Shamena and I have toxic parents. It tends to be a very long story to recount so I will go to a bulleted synopsis:

-Both parents were addicts (mom - weed, dad - weed/cocaine/alcohol) during my childhood.
-Parents had a verbally and physically violent relationship throughout their 16 years of marriage leaving us 4 kids to watch (my father was verbally and physically abusive to my older sister as well)
-Parents split when I was 16. My father blamed me specifically for my younger brothers and I staying to live with my mother(who I saw at that time as the lesser of two evils). My father continued to use drugs.
-I have not had real contact with my father since the separation in 1999 (one toxic parent down).
-My mother begins a downward spiral of selfish and childlike behavior which continues and worsens to this day.(This one really is too long to elaborate on. Suffice it to say that she was always opinionated, but she then became a pathological liar and manipulator.)
-My sister begins to follow the path of my mother :( (I really feel for her, as I believe that she got all of the psychosis from BOTH sides of the family, and seriously needs to seek help.)
-Life continues on... I am still working on how to deal with this situation. I don't want my children to only have one side of grandparents. If I cut ties with my mother, I will be parentless, if I don't I will have to face her and her issues indefinitely. I really don't know which is worse.

I really think that growing up in these types of situations mold you, but the outcome can be soooo varied. My sister went the same road as my mom. She is very emotionally weak and almost childlike in behavior. I went the complete opposite, I am very closed emotionally, being the "grown up" and "role model" since I was very young and have an extremely hard time expressing my true feelings. I have often thought of seeking counseling, as I can see that in ways my issues are starting to seep into how I deal with my marriage and I don't like it.

[Soulmate]

I think the most interesting thing reading everyone's stories is how many of us are so closed up emotionally. I am apparently a really deep feeler but, in meeting me, would think I was very laid back and level-headed. My mom shamed the crap out of me especially when it came to feelings and opinions. Since having my son I really opened up but still not really to normal levels. I have an extremely hard time relying on DH when I am upset about something. I often suck up my own feelings to support others and then have no one to turn to for myself because hell if I am going to count on someone to be there for me emotionally (was severely emotionally neglected). So I end up losing in the end. I thought about counseling too but I am afraid to change. I've been very successful in all aspects of my life and am overall very happy. So why risk opening myself up when I am coping ok. I am terrified of letting people in (DH has been the only one). It was so bad in college that I would take a bus to go grocery shopping when my roommate had a car and was more than happy to lend it to me for an hour or two. I know I can count on myself 100% but when you let other people in you take so many risks. Will they exploit you, hurt you, ridicule you? Ugh! I think the biggest reason to change is to model emotional openness for DS. My model family (a friend's family) is so open and warm and "adopt" so many people who feel like part of their family. I want so much to be like them and I can't if I am always so skeptical of everyone.

Sha259 I too had to face cutting off my mom and ultimately chose to do so. It is very hard officially losing your mom when she still physical exists. I hate that I have to raise my son "motherless". But I realize that my mom wasn't going to teach me anything. She said when my son was 4 weeks old that I was a better parent than she was. How sad. She wasn't supportive or any other way a positive influence. All she did was cause me more pain. Maybe it is like having breast cancer. These vital parts of your body that you've had all of your life and helped shape your identity are diseased and unless they are removed you will suffer. It is a huge loss losing them but the sacrifice is essential to your quality of life. It is possible to reconstruct them though they will never be the same. But can give you some semblance of normalcy. We did not ask for crappy parents but, as adults, we have choices in how to deal with them and have the power to re-create family in other ways.

[Sha259]

I often suck up my own feelings to support others and then have no one to turn to for myself because hell if I am going to count on someone to be there for me emotionally (was severely emotionally neglected). So I end up losing in the end. I thought about counseling too but I am afraid to change. I've been very successful in all aspects of my life and am overall very happy. So why risk opening myself up when I am coping ok. I am terrified of letting people in

I could have written this word for word.

As for cutting off my mother. I know that I am really not in the mentality to do that yet. I still think that she can change. Ultimately though, I know that the final decision will come when DH and I have kids. If she shows any sign of wanting to continue to manipulate me or my child then, I will have to cut ties. I refuse to knowingly subject my child to toxic people. But I pray that this will not be the case with her when the time comes.

[kalogrias]

I have an extremely hard time relying on DH when I am upset about something. I often suck up my own feelings to support others and then have no one to turn to for myself because hell if I am going to count on someone to be there for me emotionally (was severely emotionally neglected). So I end up losing in the end...I know I can count on myself 100% but when you let other people in you take so many risks.

I agree with this 100%, too. I don't depend on other people for anything -- emotionally, physically, mentally, financially. Even now that I'm married, I still feel really guilty taking DH's money (which is really our money) without "paying it back" in a sense, because I'm afraid that it will somehow indebt me to him, which would in turn cause some sort of dependency. It drives him crazy.


Intuition -- Yes. I'm like a tuning fork when it comes to other people's emotions. Very good at seeing which way the wind blows. I get really worked up when I think that other people are upset or angry.

Seastars -- I think some people do choose toxicity because it is familiar. My mother did that with her BF (because her mother was so toxic, and the two situations mirror each other). My therapist said something interesting about that: When I was engaged to my DH, he pulled some crappy stuff. Not worth going into, but everything that happened was really trust damaging (for me; might not have been for someone else), and I wasn't sure if I could go on with things. Anyway, she said that I'd chosen him for a reason -- that I knew and understood things about him and knew that what happened would happen, and that I picked him because he was "breaking my cycle". That by choosing someone whose trust offenses were similar in pattern to those of my mother (though not at all similar in severity), I was recreating a scene, if you will. And that by knowing that he would be willing to work through them (which I did), I was helping to heal myself. SHe also astutely pointed out that, because he's in the Navy, he has to "leave me" very often, thereby triggering my anxiety over abandonment, but that he leaves me in a safe way -- only physically -- and he always returns home. Not sure where this was going; only saying that a lot of times, when we recognize what is going on, we subconsciously work to prevent history from reoccuring.

Diam -- I'm so sorry that happened to you. I completely sympathize.

Sha -- I'm dealing with that, too. I want to disengage from my mother, but I don't know how, and I don't know if I'm ready yet. It's so hard.

Question -- How do you all deal with the anger that comes from having parents like these? I am starting to realize that I am so so angry. The kind of anger that is dormant until it is prodded, and then it's so fierce that it scares me.

[KAF]

I’ve been reading all your posts and going back and forth about adding my story. I hate to hear that others have gone through trauma from the very people in the world that were supposed to make the world safe for us- our parents.

My mother is toxic and my father has just always been absent. My mother experienced a lot of trauma herself when she was a child, she lost both her parents when she was very young and was raised by abusive family members. I firmly believe she has borderline personality disorder, and I know she suffers from depression and abandonment issues.

When I was growing up she was always threatening me with her death. One of the first very clear memories I have was of her locking herself in the bathroom with a butcher knife, telling me she was going to kill herself and that it was my fault. She finally came out of the bathroom and told me I didn’t deserve to call her mommy, that I was to call her by her first name and that maybe if I begged her for forgiveness, I could call her Mommy again. I was no more than six or seven years old. She of course denies that ever happened but there is no way I could have made that up.

Although my parents were married, my father was literally never around. He traveled for work and would be home for maybe one day a week. I was left alone with her all the time. With some time perspective, I think he didn’t know how to handle her so he tried to escape her craziness, but I resent the fact that he, as an adult, couldn’t handle her but left me as a little girl to try to handle her behavior.

When I was twelve, my dad officially left. On Mother’s day. Yeah, that was fun. I hate Mother’s Day because there is always some sort of acting out. I can’t win on that day. No matter what I do, try to acknowledge it, ignore it, it’s not right. After my dad left, my mother started getting physically ill. I believe she always had an eating disorder (bulimia) and one day her body just shut down. So, we began a cycle of her being in and out of the hospital. She would be in for several weeks, out for a week or two and back in. She was e was completely fixated on herself and really didn’t pay attention to me except to tell me how close to death she was. She would say things to me like “well, you know that I could have a heart attack at any minute. You could come home from school and find me dead at the bottom of the stairs.” She didn’t understand why I started skipping school and coming home early. She would always say that I was acting out to get back at her- everything I did was about her. I was paralyzed with fear that she would die because she always told me that my father didn’t love me. That she was the only one who loved me. So although there was a part of me that wanted her to die, I was terrified that if she died I would be alone in the world.

As I got older, I became less tolerant of her behavior but still struggle with her. I too, am very distant emotionally. I was engaged a few years ago but we were always fighting about my mother. My fiancée wanted me to cut ties with her and I couldn’t do it. I couldn’t walk away from someone who always made me feel as though I was responsible for her well being. I would never have forgiven myself if something happened and she died because I cut ties with her. I have no doubt she would work herself up to the point that at the very least she would end up hospitalized- she’s done it before. Ultimately, she wasn’t the reason the relationship ended, but her presence didn’t help.

The thing I struggle with the most right now, is how much I don’t like my mother. I just don’t like her. I love her because she is my mother, but I don’t like her. I can go weeks w/o talking to her and be just fine. But there are always ramifications to that. I couldn’t begin to imagine treating a child the way I’ve been treated. I think my mother’s main motivation for having a child was to find someone who loved her- not to unconditionally love someone else.

Wow, this was long and if you’re still reading, thank you. As I often am around the holidays, I’ve been somewhat pensive and contemplative about my life and of course relationship with my mother. I don’t know that will ever end until she is gone. But in this holiday season, my wish for each of us to get to a place in our lives where we are “okay” and find the happiness so often in jeopardy because of the people in our lives.

[Lizard]

The thing I struggle with the most right now, is how much I don’t like my mother. I just don’t like her. I love her because she is my mother, but I don’t like her. I can go weeks w/o talking to her and be just fine. But there are always ramifications to that. I couldn’t begin to imagine treating a child the way I’ve been treated. I think my mother’s main motivation for having a child was to find someone who loved her- not to unconditionally love someone else.

Wow, this hit spot-on with me. I often think how, if my mother was a neighbor or a co-worker or something, I'd HATE her. Yet, she's my mother. I too think that my mom's motivation for having me was to ease her loneliness. She had very distant parents and they died when she was 22/23. She often talks about how she had been trying to get pregnant for many years before having me. Yet, she wasn't married when she was pregnant with me. Fast forward many years... I left home at 18 to go to college and never went back. She's never forgiven me for that and says she still wants me living at home. Up until a year or so ago, she had a little girl's room set up in their house for me (no, I'm not joking). Her sense of reality is so gone.

I hope that everyone had a healthy & happy Christmas. Remember, we're here for you if you need to vent. Mine was great because I spent it with the in-laws.... we won't be visiting my parents until late January.

[rileyandfredsmom]

I had a very nice Christmas with the In-Laws yesterday and a reminder of why I don't go home all that often today!

DH and I celebrated with my family on Christmas eve, which consists of us calling them, getting put on speaker phone while everyone opens their gifts. It is actually pretty fun and we don't have to all be together. My sister did go home to be with them this year....which is how I got the reminder today!

My sister arrived on Sunday and is leaving tomorrow...so that is what, 3 1/2 days with them. When she got home on Sunday, she called me 7 times...yes, 7 times but only left a message once (my sister is also somewhat toxic). When I finally called her back she just wanted me to know she had gotten to mom and dad's house. So, my thinking was this "Um, OK, you could have left that on voicemail and didn't really need to call me 7 times to tell me that. Interestinly enough, I do have a life and while it may not be the most exciting, I'm not always available to take your call. And sometimes, I just can't deal with talking to you." So, she was there with them for 3 1/2 days. She is leaving tomorrow "as soon as possible after her 8:15 a.m. vet appt."

So, how did I get the reminder of my family's insanity? I was talking to my sister, walking her through how to do something on the computer and evidently she shut the door to the computer room. She starts telling me how, next time she tells me she is going home for 3 or 4 days to tell her not to and remind her of her current visit and then all of a sudden I hear the bedroom door being thrown open (yes, I could hear the door open so you can only imagine how loud it was there) and my mother yelling at my 37, almost 38 year old sister to keep the door open because her cats live there and they have to be able to get into the room if they want in. And this was said in the most hateful tone.....it just brought it all rushing back.

Oh yeah, on Sunday, when I tried to call my family they were getting poor cell service and I could hear my Dad but he couldn't hear me so he didn't know I could hear him. I heard him say, "Hello, Hello??!!', then I hear my mother ask him who it is and he responds "Oh, it's Shannon" and then hangs up! But it was how he said 'Oh, it's Shannon', so mean and uninterested.

On Christmas eve, I got a little teary thinking about them and missing them but after hearing them in the background today....I know why I don't go home and when I do, it's only for 2, maybe 3 days.

Does anyone else do the trick of remembering things in a pleasant way and making things up about how it's going to be different this time only to get jolted back to reality? I don't know why I think things are going to be different and I get frustrated when they aren't. DH is always reminding me that they are who they are and I will just have to deal with them unless I want to cut them off...which I just can't do.

[seastars]

...

[Niobe]

delete

[lucycat]

can i join in?:o
I would say my parents are toxic. For a long time I believe my father has been bi-polar or has some type of chemical imbalance. Since I was a little girl I can remember him coming home from work and throwing plates at dinner time(sometimes at my mom) b/c the spag noodles were sticking to each other:eek: There is a list of other things he has done- he is also emotionally abusive to my mother. He will get upset about the littlest things and fly off the handle- when a "normal" person would just have a discussion with their spouse he will YELL so loud or punch holes in doors or throw various things! what else- oh there was the time he came at my sis's car with a bat and took something out of her car so she couldnt drive away(my mother and I were in the car- i was maybe 11)my mom was trying to leave. that is just the tip of the iceberg.
my mom- well living with that she has completely lost all self confidence. She worries about any and everything. Really! to the point where if I dont answer my cell phone she will call it multiple times then call DH's phone too. But when I say something to her about this she get upset like i have hurt her feelings?? i dont understand where she is coming from. We talk on the phone alot and she will complain that my father has done this or that- but she never leaves him she claims she has no place to go. I have told her to come live with me- but she worries about her"stuff"- whatever!!!!! I dont know what to say anymore and I hate hearing all the mean stuff he does.
Usually at holiday time there are fights and someone leaves or something gets broken
Growing up in a house where your parents are always fighting (really bad fighting) has really damaged my self confidence too-and God knows what else its done to me. Fortunatley I have a wonderful Dh who would never treat me like that. He knows what my family is like, he has also witnessed it. I get jealous of friends that have parents that are loving to each other and have good relationships with their kids. My dad never really tried to be close to me as a kid/teen. Anyways- im glad to get that off my chest

[rileyandfredsmom]

lucycat - sorry to hear you have had such a hard time. My parents fought like cats and dogs...very ugly, mean fights. I hated them. They were so loud you couldn't even go outside to get away from it and they didn't care what time of day or night they fought, it could be 2 in the morning on a school night and they would be screaming and shoving each other and throwing things...just awful.

So, I know what you mean. It isn't fun but at some point you have to recognize it is their marriage and you can't fix it. Of course, that little sentence took me about 3 years of therapy and a lot of money to accept!! :rolleyes: Sometimes, I think they like living like that, why else would they continue?

[lucycat]

Sometimes, I think they like living like that, why else would they continue?

i have thought this too many times to count. Of course I still dont *get* it- ya know. I am just glad that I was able to be in a healthy relationship after growing up in that. Its funny cause in front of other people my dad acts completely normal- you would never think he is like that:rolleyes: and its hard too since my mom calls me complaining about him everyday- I just dont know what to tell her without hurting her feelings- I feel like im the only one left that will listen to her. my bro and sis dont want to hear about it anymore. It puts me in a tough position. My mom called me Christmas and was complaining that my dad didnt buy her anything- JERK!-but not surprising.

[Lizard]

So is this thread officially dead? No one posts in the LJ thread either. :(

I confronted my mom about her drug addiction, but it didn't matter, she denies it all. I knew she would so it was no big loss, but I feel better personally. I know at least part of it hit home, because she's called me several times acting very paranoid and wanting to know more details about why I "feel" she has problems. I gave her very specific reasons, and instances, but she gave me excuses for everything. I did tell her at this point the only thing that would make me feel a little better would be to talk to her doctor personally about how she's being medicated, because if she doesn't have an addiction issues, then maybe she's being over-medicated (I thought this was a good route to go, giving her an 'out'). Mom refuses to let me do that... I think that's telling in itself.

We are heading out to visit her and the rest of my family this weekend, I am dreading it. We waited until just a couple weeks ago to tell my parents I was pregnant again... at first they were happy, then Mom called me back a couple hours later crying and screaming about how she'll never see her grandkids and how I need to move home soon (LOL, not gonna happen, ever). Every situation needs to be all about her, as usual.

There is so much more I could say, but if this thread is dead I won't bother. :( Hope you all are doing well.

[starxed]

I just found it so I hope it's not a dead thread cause I'd love to have a place to share and gets things off my chest about my toxic parent.

Sorry to know of the situation with your Mom, Lizard. It sounds like an uphill climb you have going there.:(

[kalogrias]

Not dead! I'm here listening...don't have much to say as both parents have been quiet of late...

[Soulmate]

Definitely not dead either. I have no new developments and still not talking to my mom so I haven't had much to add. Definitely listening though.

[Soulmate]

Ugh. I spoke too soon. I would really like opinions on what to do.

I wrote this in DS' baby blog:Logan has been doing this amazingly cute thing that is just melting my heart. He will point to me and say "mommy" in this really sweet voice and this cute little half smile. At first he liked it when I pointed back to him and said "Logan" but this morning he got mad and just wanted to say "mommy" to me. It just reminds me that I am a mommy and to this amazing little person that adds so much joy to life. How did I get so lucky?My mom sent me an email today, Valentines Day, in response to that post:dear [soulmate]: being a mommy is an amazing thing. having that little person love you so much is a feeling that cannot be duplicated. if logan ever ended up feeling about you like you feel about me, no matter what the reason, it would break your heart. mine is broken. parents do the very best they can raising their children. children don't come with manuals. i love you and always will. that is what being a mom is. our relationship has unfortunately gotten to a point where you do not like me, do not respect me and want nothing to do with me. that is your choice. i never see us being able to regain the unbelievable bond there was, and it hurts like hell. have a happy valentine's day. love momThis really breaks my heart because I don't *want* to not have a mother. I don't *want* to not have an "unbelievable bond" (which I think is exaggerated on her part...I believe she was a depressed mother and there was never an unbelievable bond that I can remember. She always acted like I annoyed her and that she didn't like me) with her. And it is messed up she sent this on V-day. I'm sure she is hurt too but he also fails to remember my last email with her that told her we could have a relationship once she took a good look at her actions and realized why I was upset. And f@$# her for saying I don't respect her. She is playing the victim again. My initial reaction is to take her off the reminder list for when I update DS' blog. I hate that she is using it as ammunition against me. This is not restricting her from his blog but just not reminding her when I update. I am tempted to restrict her from that but that means I cut her off completely and I don't know if I am ready for that. My other thought is to resend her the email telling her that we can have a relationship when she does some work instead of it always being me. My thought about that is that part of her communication with me is manipulating me into re-initiating contact and if I do I am afraid of opening up another shit-storm. I would love anyone's thoughts on the topic.

FYI - The copied emails will be deleted at some point to eliminate google-ability.

[starxed]

Soulmate- If I were you, I wouldn't say anything back. I don't even know the whole situation with your Mother (as I don't have time to read back posts), but it sounds like she is trying to be manipulative. I also find it to be sort of cruel in a way that she would use your blog about your Son as ammunition (like you said). It seems like instead of appreciating the innocence and sweetness of your blog about him, she saw it as an opportunity. :(

So I wouldn't delete her from the notifications or block her or reply at all. I'd just take note of the email and move on with the same intentions for the future (having a relationship after she looks at herself and realizes why you are upset).

Hope that helps!

Good to know the thread isn't dead, maybe I'll come back and share when I have time to explain my situation.

[camberne]

Soulmate, I'm so mad on your behalf that your mother used your blog for your son to turn such a beautiful post into something with which to manipulate you.

I would probably not respond either. You've told her what you've needed from her in order to re-establish a relationship with you. If she's not willing to do what you need her to do, then you shouldn't let her goad you into a dialogue like this.

I probably would take her off of the reminder list. You don't need to spoon feed her opportunities to hurt you!

I hope you didn't let her behavior ruin your valentine's day and more importantly ruin the beauty of the post you wrote!

[Soulmate]

Thank you so much starxed and camberne and thank you camberne for your compassion :D

Her email only made me lose like 20 mins of sleep last night but that is it. My mom has this great habit of making holidays dysfunctional but V-day is a first. I don't ever take what she says personally because I know her thoughts are messed up and not wholly based in reality. She just has a whole bunch of pain from throughout her life and was never taught or made to deal with it. Most everyone in her life enables her because she can react so emotionally (as you can tell). The really funny thing is that she absolutely HATES conflict and her avoidance of conflict is a big reason why our relationship deteriorated to where it has. I cannot have any close relationship with someone and not tell them when they hurt me and then we work it out. She can't stand this and wants everything she does just to roll off their back and not hear about it. But here she is goading me into a fight. She *knows* that my response is going to incite conflict. She just wants to continue to be the victim and me an "abuser". So you guys are absolutely right. I won't respond back to her. I don't know what to do about DS' blog though. I kinda want to leave it as it is because taking her off of the notify would tell her I reacted to her email.

I just wanted to add (venting) that this statementparents do the very best they can raising their children. children don't come with manuals. is total bullshit. Her behavior was more than just ignorant it was negligent. This is the woman who weaned me onto cow's milk at 3 months old when my brother who is 7 YEARS older than me got formula. There are so many other things as well. I didn't have any parent figure to tell/show me how to raise my son, he doesn't come with a manual, but hell if I am going to use that as an excuse to poorly parent him.