Kindergarten-- what age?

[myshel]

I have a question for those of you with older children or kids close to kindergarten age. There was an article recently in the largest state newspaper about the age/date-cutoff for kindergarten in our state. The current cutoff (and the one that has been in place since 1961) is September 15th, meaning your child must turn 5 before this date to register and attend kindergarten in our state.

DH and I were talking about this today, because our son is a late July baby. He will obviously turn 5 before the cutoff date but would probably end being one of the youngest in his class. We are considering waiting until he's 6 to register him for kindergarten. One of my "gut" feelings about this is the fact that he's a small child. At age 2, he's of average height but only weighs 23 pounds. For some reason, I think that an extra year might benefit him physically. The flip side of that is that he's pretty much on target for his age in terms of emotional, social, and intellectual milestones. I worry that maybe holding him back might hurt him in these ways.

So, what's the cutoff in your state? How do plan on handling this issue with your own child/ren? What are your reasons? Thanks!

[dal]

Our cutoff is October 1. My oldest DD's birthday is in July too so she will also be one of the youngest in her class. Also similar to your situation is that my DD is small for her age. However, I will definitely be starting her in kindergarten when she turns 5. For me, it's all about whether she is ready intellectually, socially, and emotionally and I have no doubt that she will be. I'm not really taking into consideration her phsyical size.

My DD has been in preschool for a year and is now starting pre-k in our public school system. While she is physically smaller than most of the kids, she is definitely with the right age group with respect to intellectual and physical milestones.

What exactly are your concerns about starting him at 5? Even though he may be smaller than the other kids physically, as long as he in on track with all his milestones, I don't really see what the problem would be. kwim?

[Sarah]

DH and I were talking about this today, because our son is a late July baby. He will obviously turn 5 before the cutoff date but would probably end being one of the youngest in his class. We are considering waiting until he's 6 to register him for kindergarten. One of my "gut" feelings about this is the fact that he's a small child. At age 2, he's of average height but only weighs 23 pounds. For some reason, I think that an extra year might benefit him physically. The flip side of that is that he's pretty much on target for his age in terms of emotional, social, and intellectual milestones. I worry that maybe holding him back might hurt him in these ways.The cutoff in our state is August 31/Sep 1, and my DDs are July and August babies.

It's sort of irrelevant for us, because our DDs are being homeschooled right now, and there's no need to call it Kindergarten or Preschool or First grade, but I imagine I'd be putting her in K this year, were we sending her to school.

I think this is a decision which you have a lot of time to make. At 2 my DD was not really talking at all (I had concerns about developmental delay), very think (she had FTT as an infant) and was of average height. At 5 she is now very tall for her age (though thin, still), verbally somewhat advanced for her age, and perfectly fine to go to K. I don't think you can make predictions at 2 for how your son will be at 5-6. That doesn't help you much, but I think it's true. You can always bring him to the local school and talk about it with the preschool/kindergarten teachers there.

FWIW, I went to kindergarten in the Sep that I was 4.5, and I was always fine. I graduated at 17 and it didn't ever seem to effect me academically or socially, though it was sometimes annoying to be the youngest. I think that someone's got to be the youngest, and it's silly to hold kids back to help them get a leg up or an advantage. I'm a certified teacher (k-6) and I never found the younger kids I've worked with to be lagging behind once they hit the older grades.

[mimieliza]

My DD's birthday is the end of October, so she'll be one of the oldest in her class. I am glad about this. Even if she's advanced, I don't think there's benefit in rushing her. I think about it this way - would I want her to be just 17 years old when she goes away to college? To me, that's too young - I'd rather have her at home for an extra year.

[mia's mama]

Our state's cut off is Aug 31 and DD's B-day is in November so she'll be nearly 6. I think she'll be ready in every aspect before then, but this way she'll have 3 years of preschool which I think she will benefit from in many ways- her preschool has a 2/3, 3/4 and 4/5 class with different curriculum each year.

My son on the other hand is a July baby and I will consider waiting an additional year to put him in Kindergarten. He too is small (although he's only 13 months now, so who knows how big he'll be at 5) and I think it's considerably harder to the smallest boy in your class than it is to be the smallest girl. The compeition to be smarter, taller, faster, a better athlete is always there, especially as he gets into Jr. high and high school. In my opinion it can't hurt to wait a year and suppliment with other activities in the meantime. Of course if he is right on track intellectually, socially, emotionally and is of average size he'll probably start at age 5...we'll see.

[myshel]

FWIW, I went to kindergarten in the Sep that I was 4.5, and I was always fine. I graduated at 17 and it didn't ever seem to effect me academically or socially, though it was sometimes annoying to be the youngest. I think that someone's got to be the youngest, and it's silly to hold kids back to help them get a leg up or an advantage. I'm a certified teacher (k-6) and I never found the younger kids I've worked with to be lagging behind once they hit the older grades.

This is good to know. I, too, am a certified teacher (7-12) but don't really know how an issue like this would affect the elementary aged kids, because I lack the experience there. I can, from time to time, see marked differences at the high school level through different kids' maturity levels.

[mamax2]

FWIW, I went to kindergarten in the Sep that I was 4.5, and I was always fine. I graduated at 17 and it didn't ever seem to effect me academically or socially, though it was sometimes annoying to be the youngest. I think that someone's got to be the youngest, and it's silly to hold kids back to help them get a leg up or an advantage.

Ditto. I have a December b-day and also started school 'early'. My Mom got a LOT of grief over it, but you know what, I was ready. I was emotionally and intellectually ready and I always did just fine and school. As for size, well, someone is always going to be smaller, just like someone's always going to be the tallest. This is part of what makes us unique and IT'S REAL LIFE.

To answer the OP, my state's current cut-off is Sept 1 (although they will allow people born in the month of Sept to 'test in' if desired). My DD's b-day is August 10th. I have absolutely no qualms about starting her in pre-k this year (just turned 4) or in kindegarten next year at 5 years, 3 weeks old.

I can say with certainty that my criteria for entering a boy vs. a girl in school would be exactly the same. If a child is academically, intellectually and emotionally 'fit' for school, I see no reason to arbitrarily hold them back just so they'll be bigger or older than their classmates.

[Sophia]

Our cutoff is Sept. 1, and DS's birthday is Sept. 11, which means he missed the cutoff by 10 days and is considerably older than most of his classmates (must be 4 by that date for pre-k, and 5 by that date for K). I was annoyed he had to wait because he'd been ready skills-wise for a long time and had to wait a year longer just because of 10 measely days. I feel it was a disservice to him.

On the other hand, my birthdate is July 31, so I was one of the youngest in my class. I'm also really tiny, so the effect was exaggerated. Even though I was really small/young, I had no problems adjusting to school. I really enjoyed it--I was very ready for it. I think it would have been awful to have to wait, especially since I was already reading and writing.

Personally, I wouldn't hold a kid back just because he'd be on the young side or small. I could maybe see doing it if the child seems emotionally or developmentally immature, but otherwise I'd start the child on time.

[catmom]

I think I am on the flip side from most of the other posters... I think when in doubt, it's wiser to keep them out an extra year. There was a big article in the Washington Post about this a few months ago, and one of the things that many of the teachers and parents who were interviewed said was that kids who are too immature in K are still lagging behind in upper elementary. They get behind, develop a dislike of school, and never really get over it. You also have to remember that kindergarten nowadays is not like it was when we were kids- it's much more like first grade. And with many schools mandating full-day programs, some of the less mature kids may just not have the stamina for that long of a day.

I do think it is too early to call in your situation. I wouldn't make a decision like that until he's really on the verge of needing to register for school, and then if you want you can keep him in preschool another year. I probably wouldn't make the call just for size, though. But if you really don't think he's ready socially or academically, it won't hurt him to keep him out an extra year.

FWIW, I'm sure tons of kids are ready for kindergarten at 4.5. But some really aren't ready until closer to 6. I think it's better to look for developmental markers rather than just chronological age- kids differ SO much in terms of their development at this age. (and also fwiw, my mother and DH both ended up needing to repeat kindergarten because they really weren't ready yet. It didn't ruin their lives :) And I had to wait until I was 5.5 and I was absolutely bored stiff- I think I would have done better to start a year earlier ).

[Sophia]

And by the same token, it sucks to be ready and have to wait because you missed the date, or because your parent wants to ensure you're not the smallest. Imagine a kid who is emotionally and intellectually ready who has to wait and later gets bored because he's more advanced and mature than his peers. Kids start tuning out and get turned off to school for that reason, too. I've seen it happen, and it's sad.

The bottom line--it's up to the parents to decide if a kid is ready or not.

[catmom]

Sophia- I totally agree.

This is one of the reasons I am leaning toward montessori for preschool and kindergarten (if I can afford it- which is a big "if"). I like the fact that the classrooms are mixed-age and the kids learn at their own pace. Since the classroom spans 3 years, there is already lots of variety in terms of kids' abilities, sizes, and emotional development. Since the curriculum is child-directed, the advanced kids don't get bored, and the less mature kids don't get frustrated and left behind.

[Sophia]

Yeah, it's really expensive. I wish traditional/public schools were more attuned to the fact kids learn better when classes are self-paced.

[KRL626]

It's interesting what a teacher said about not noticing difference academically and socially in the younger children. Here in NYC the cut off is Dec 31st. So our DS will be one of the oldest in his class. I personally think a cutoff that late is ridiculous and as a teacher of 2nd and 3rd graders I HAVE noticed a difference academically at least in my Nov. Dec. born students. I really feel like they were too young to start kindergarten. So maybe those few months of Oct./Nov./Dec. do make a difference developmentally.

[LeslieR]

It's interesting what a teacher said about not noticing difference academically and socially in the younger children. Here in NYC the cut off is Dec 31st. So our DS will be one of the oldest in his class. I personally think a cutoff that late is ridiculous and as a teacher of 2nd and 3rd graders I HAVE noticed a difference academically at least in my Nov. Dec. born students. I really feel like they were too young to start kindergarten. So maybe those few months of Oct./Nov./Dec. do make a difference developmentally.

The cutoff here is Dec., too. I find it so bizarre. I'm used to an Aug/Sept cutoff. DS is an August baby, so I don't even think about it being an issue, but our neighbor has an October baby (same age) and she's considering holding her back. She's a teacher also and she said she's noticed the difference-usually the younger girls adapt well whereas the younger boys do not, but she also says that is not always the case.

I would assume it would be better to make a decision when the child is closer to that age and you can see their skill base and emotional level.

[Renrel]

The cut off in the town we plan to live in is age five by August 31. Our son is an October baby so he would be one of the oldest in his class. Before having my particular son I had always thought I would error on the side of holding back if I had a son so that this birthday would be ideal. My sense is the physical size and ablity tends to matter more to boys. That they tend to look up to the biggest kids and the best athletes more than to the kid who his the smartest. I have a SIL who fretted this with her son and she told me that of all the Mom's she spoke when making her decision, none regretted holding their son's back a year but several regretted not doing so.

Now I have a almost 4 year old son who is small for his age, is good for his age at athletics (he can hit a tennis ball with a real racket it you toss it to him and can make a basket in an basket of an appropriate height for a preschooler) and is already doing Kindergarden to 1st grade academic without being in an academic based school (he types out 3-4 sentence stories on the computer by himself, writes his letter and does addition and subtraction for numbers under 10). He just picks the stuff up quickly if you give him a taste and then keeps going.

He has been in full time daycare/preschool since age one and for the most part has decent to good social skills. He his great a sharing, understands taking turns, never hits or bites (well on occassion he swats at me or dad in frustation but never at other kids), I am told he shows empathy for his classmates and gets along with everyone, older and younger (ages 2.7 to 6) and has an unusally good relationship with a child in his class who is developmentaly delayed.

But he can also be a bit immature. He has a tendency, as of late, to throw small trantums or cry when he does not get his way either with his friends or with adults and to get stubburn about doing what his parents or teachers want if he happens to feel like doing something else. He likes to be babied, trying to get me to carry him instead of walking, wanting me to dress him, feed him, and other things he is capable of doing on his own if I am not there. (Part of being an only child of older parents who focus much of their time and attention on him.)

I find myself baffled as to what would be best for him when he hits age 5. A part of me thinks I should try and get an exception to get him into school early if at all possible because otherwise he may get bored with the school work. But I also want to be sure that he is emotionally and socially as competent as possible before starting grade school because I think those areas will have more to do with his utimate happiness and success in life than academics. But if he is bored academicly that could have a negative effect on the emotional and social parts of his life.

So you are definately not alone in wondering what is best for your child as far as the best age to start Kindergarden.

[Tracie]

The cutoff in New Hampshire is September 30. I used to teach kindergarten and I could see a huge difference from the kids born in October to the kids born the following September. I think if I had a child born in September or even August I would consider keeping him/her back unless he/she was really mature. I don't think I would take physical size into account. My son was born in March, but I will keep him back if I feel he is not ready.

My birthday is at the end of August, and my parents considered keeping me back because I was socially/emotionally young, although academically more than ready. (Cut-off was Dec 31 in Mass at the time, it's Aug 31 in Mass now.) They ended up sending me because of the academics. Who knows if it was the right decision. I did fine but maybe I would have more success a year later.

In my experience, when in doubt, keep them back. It is better to be kept back a year before kindergarten than to be retained later on.

[MidwesternGal]

myshel--I *just* discussed this with my mom today. I'm sure we read the same article in the Register! Was it me, or did the dad seem to think his girls were just *oh so smart* and it makes me wonder how he'd feel if they didn't test in (per the NE example) and blame it on the test, or if he'd feel better if the date was changed --but what if they backed it up to Aug 1 so that they missed the "arbitrary" date by 40-some days instead of 11--then what would he think??? Kids are born 365-days a year. . . so someone is going to get "screwed" by the date, regardless, and they need to be grouped *somewhat* according to age.

______________________________________

This was my mom and I's take on it:

When in doubt, hold them back.

Of course, if your DC is ready, by all means, start them if possible. It's better to be a bit ahead rather than behind. If your DC is very advanced, a good teacher/school will enter them into a talented/gifted program or even consider skipping a grade (they considered skipping 2nd grade for my sister, but opted not to).

And as Tracie points out, some kids may be academically gifted (and therefore, "bored" at home) but not be ready socially or emotionally. All three factors need to get taken into account.

Long story short--you just need to decide for yourselves when the time comes, and consider academics, social skills, emotional skills, and that K in our state is all day, everyday and if your DC can handle that or not.

FWIW, my mom is a 1st grade teacher and she feels that the more mature students do well. I have an Oct. baby, so he will be one of the oldest when he starts school and my mom and all her teacher friends think that is excellent. (In their own experiences. As highlighted by other teachers here, this can vary widely--I'm sure some depends on community and educ. level of parents, etc.)

[kdotp]

As you know, DH was always one of the youngest in his class, and it never seemed to affect him much (then again, he was never as small as L, so he never had that physical "disadvantage.")

I think it's really too early to start thinking about that yet. L could hit a big growth spurt and be closer to average size. If, when he turns 5, you and C. still think he's not ready physically, then you can discuss more about holding him back.

I was smack in the middle with my early January birthday and while I was definitely fine in terms of physical size and intellectual development, I think I was a bit behind with regards to my emotional development. (And I still feel that way 23 years later...)

[SiValleySteph]

We have a December 1st cutoff here. My son was born in late September and will be starting kindergarten at 4, almost 5. I'm not going to hold him back. I don't think there's a lot of people here holding their kids back, AFAIK. If anything, I know more kids who skipped grades (Silicon Valley and all ;)).

My son is very serious and I have no doubt that he will be fine starting K in 2 years. His best daycare friend right now is 5 and starting K this week. Yesterday we had a party and the kids he spent the most time playing with are going in K and 2nd grade. He enjoyed playing with them more than the kids his age or a little bit younger. I think he'll be fine.

It seems to me that holding your child back is probably more of an upper middle class/middle class thing because if you are working class, you can't afford to pay daycare for one more year. I suppose if you are SAHM?

On another thread about this topic, I posted a link to a NAEYC article, here it is again:

An Updated Look at Delaying Kindergarden Entry (http://http://www.journal.naeyc.org/btj/200309/DelayingKEntry.pdf). I would say that article is not really in favor of delaying entry.

ETA - I personally have a summer birthday and I never really noticed that I was younger than most. It was never an issue.

[pixielou]

my dd is a late september birthday. when we were looking at houses to buy, one of the towns on the top of our list had a september 30th cutoff, the rest had 31 august. we ended up in a 31 august town, so now dd will be almost 6 when she starts kindergarten. we will not be doing pre-school or pre-k at all.

if dd is ready for school when she is almost 5, dh and i will send her to a private kindergarten. i'm not too worried about her being bored in school - no matter what age she starts. since i will assure that she has plenty of intellectual stimulation and learning opportunities outside of the classrooom.
i personally was always bored in school - but my parents kept me learning the rest of the day.

~pixie

[DisneyGirl]

The cute off where I live is September 1 and my DS missed the cute off by 1 month. At first i was so annoyed that he missed the cut off becasue before I moved he would have made the cut off(october 31). Bu, talking to his pre school teachers and my own friends that are teachers I am happy that he will be one of the oldest.
Now, with the baby i have coming its very possible that he/she will be here before th 9/1 cut off and though its many years away i think I will hold he/she back.

[Phen]

The cutoff here is September 1. My boys have a mid-July birthday. Several teachers have recommended we delay their starting kindergarten, citing the immaturity issue. Also that twins are often slightly more immature than their peers, so they'd really be doing a whole lot of catchup if we sent them to kindergarten just after turning 5.

DH and I have been discussing it off and on for the past few months, but just today, we were told the boys weren't ready for a sunday school class geared for 3- and 4-year-olds due to immaturity issues. They simply weren't able to follow at the same pace as the rest of the class. We take today's development to mean that there really might be something to the immaturity issue. We don't want to think they might struggle in school simply because we sent them a year too early, so we're seriously considering an extra year of pre-K now.

~ phen

[myshel]

Thanks for all of the input. Obviously, DH and I aren't making a decision on this now. DS has a lot of growing to do before we make a final decision. This is a topic we'll surely revisit again.

It's hard for me to judge DS's maturity at this stage. I do know that being in a scheduled setting over the last year has helped him in the milestone department, but that doesn't speak to his maturity. It's just hard for me to judge, because he's the only two year-old I'm around on a daily basis. If you were to show me a HS aged student and ask me the same question, I could answer that in a heartbeat; then again, I spend 8 hours a day with 145 of them.

I surely wouldn't base this completely on physical development, but as someone mentioned before, I think it's a much bigger issue with boys than girls. I guess we'll see where the next two years take us.

Thanks again for your veiwpoints. They've been very enlightening.

[Sarah]

I wanted to add that I don't see anything wrong with delaying a kid who's on the cusp or 5 or just barely 5 if he or she seems to be slightly behind, or to not be ready emotionally or socially or intellectually. But to delay based on size seems a bit odd and unnecessary. It does seem like more and more UMC parents are delaying for issues of size, or wanting to give their kids a leg up. It seems like there's a big difference between wanting to give your kids the upper hand or a leg up and wanting them to be developmentally ready. KWIM?

[KJBean]

Until this past January when the time was coming up to re-register DS for the next year of preschool, I'd never even considered holding him back. Our cut-off is Oct 1 and DS has an early September birthday. But after hearing some feedback from the school director and the pre-k teachers, then getting recommendations from friends who were just going through this issue with their kids at the Pre-K/K age, we're looking into our options.

Rather than go into explaining our reasonings and pros and cons, b/c most have been mentioned here, I'll just add a few points we are considering...

While we are leaning towards having DS wait to start K, we have not yet completely decided, as he is just about to turn 4 and still has this next year of Pre-K. We did, though, change schools b/c of the program, so this year he will be in a 'young 4's' class with other kids his age (late summer and early fall), and while most will not make the cut-off, some of those that do still may not go to K the following year. Then, there is a Pre-K class he could move up to if we don't send him to K.* So come next spring, when it's time to register for K and Pre-K, we plan to register him for both and wait and see how ready he really is come late Spring/ Summer based on evaluations and other teacher recommendations (that come after registration is over). There we are leaving our options open and not committing either way.

* If we kept him in the same preschool as last year, and we did wait to send him to K, he'd basically repeat the same pre-k class and that didn't make sense.

Another thing I've considered with waiting, and worrying about him being bored in class as he got older, is that he could always take extra classes or extracurricular activites to supplement, rather than feel like he's struggling just to keep up if he started too early.

[kristin]

This is a really hot topic in the community where I live right now. People are holding kids back when they are birthdays are in the winter/spring - hence they would be 6 going on 7 in kindergarten. Although alot of parents site maturity, the vast majority seem to do it for physical reasons - the athletics in this community are highly regarded and parent strive for their kids success in these programs at a very young age. I think it's silly - I mean, what kid wouldn't benefit from another year of preschool?

I am certainly not talking about kids that are on the cusp of the cut-off (summer b-days too), but when a child has a February birthday and no special learning needs, to hold him back because you want him to be the quarterback of the high school football team one day is crazy!

The cut-off in our district is Oct 1st. Our town addressed this issue by sending out a letter to parents stating that kids whose birthdays fell between Oct and Dec could opt to be tested and allowed to start kindergarten early. So this was making the classes even younger - I think they thought this would dissuade parents from holding their kids back. But parents continued to hold their kids back, so now there is a huge age range in our kindergartens!

We are moving, and our new school district has a December 31st cut-off - the latest I've ever heard of! I'm relieved, since my DD is an Oct 3rd b-day, and we were hoping to start her in kindergarten at 4, so she would only be a year behind her brother.

[AlisonCO]

Our cutoff is Oct 1 so DS will "miss it" and DD will "make it." Right now it seems like it will all work out for my kids. I think that DS will definetely benefit from being older and more mature when he enters K at almost 6. I am not sure about DD yet - I don't forsee holding her back unless something during preschool shows us that she is not ready. My husband has a friend on the school board and he says that they rarely let parents test their older 4 year olds in to K - they apparently are very strict about the cutoff here.

I am of the opinion that for the most part, boys do adjust better when they are older. I used to work in 3 elementary schools and saw first hand how difficult it was for the really young boys to adjust and how much easier it seemed for the older ones. If I had a son that had a late summer b-day I would seriously consider waiting a year.


so she would only be a year behind her brother.

Interesting - I am freaking out at the thought of having my kids only be 1 grade apart - not sure why:).

[Renrel]

Just a few thoughts on holding kids back to give them a leg up. I am just thinking as I type. I have not come to some deep seated belief on the topic.

First, I am not planning on doing this since , as I stated earlier, my child is likely to be one of the oldest in his class and is already doing Kindergarden/first grade work at age 3. I have given fleeting thought to trying to get him in early but do not expect I will really do this unless he starts having issues in preschool this year. I expect he will be fine starting when he is supposed to start and that my worrying is just me having too much energy to focus on my dear only child. I talk and worry much more than I act.

But I can see why parents would try to give their kids an advantage by making them older than the rest of the class and thus more likely to be at the top of a curve intellectually/socially/and athleticly due actually being a year ahead in learning than their peers. It is in my option an unfair but very real advantage which it may be foolish to ignore when some and perhaps many other parents are doing it. When it comes to getting into top colleges in 12 year being the quarter back or first string violin, or newpaper editor, or science fair winner maybe the tie breaker for entrance or for a scholarship. One or even two whole extra years of learning, practice and experience do mean something in any form of competion. Particularly if the parents are training these kids to be competitive and not just enjoy the easy ride the advantage may give them. I was not trained to compete and I am not sure I really have it in me to teach my child a drive I myself don't have.

I do realize that what I am saying can result in a keeping up with the Jones' mentatilty is likely dangerous for our kids and to our society as a whole. I know a lot of people are already worried about the fact that pre-K has replaced kindergarden because some parents so many years back thought to give their kids an advantage and now all the kids have to grow up faster. I am not sure that I would hold my kid back even if it seems like my child would benefit from it. I tend to be a play by the rules kind of a person. But at the same time I think it is important to pay attention to the reality of the world caused by what some parents are doing when we make decision on what to do for our own kids, rather than just comment on the wrongness or foolishness or whatever of what the are doing. I think our society is becoming more and more individualistic, where the good of society takes a backseat in most individuals minds when they are making decisions for themselves and their families. Most people I think vote based on what will best serve them and their families not based on what is best for society as a whole. It becomes hard to make choices for the good of the community if you feel you are the only one doing so and that you and your family are going to suffer for it.

Maybe what we need is some kind of testing process, where if a child is the normal age for 1st grade and they pass the testing then the go into first grade regardless of whether their parents choose not to take advantage of the available pre-k and/or kindergarden program. Testing would cover academic, social and emotional standing so kids who are really not ready would not be forced to compete where they did not yet belong. But if your kid was average or above then they would be with their peers and not allowed to make themselves appear above average by competing with an inappropriate group of kids. I don't know, I am just thinking through my fingers at the moment.

[jay&erinn]

The cutoff in our school district is June 1st- very early. Older DD starts 3 year old preschool this week and will turn 4 in Sept. My younger DD will start 3 year old preschool 2 months after turning 4 because of the cutoff date. However, after looking at the birthdays of the kids in my older DD's class- having a Sept birthday will put her more in the middle of the pack, not as one of the oldest. There are quite a few kids who have late spring and summer birthdays and will already be 4 (meaning, already 6 before kindergarten starts). People have suggested that I push my younger DD through since she has a June birthday and start her early (at least early by the school district standards). I most likely won't though. It has become fairly common for people to hold their kids back around here so if I sent her early she would just turn 5 before kindergarten, when many of the other kids would be a full year to slightly more than a year older than her. Not the best social situation, especially 10 years down the road when it comes to smoking, driving, drinking, sex and drugs (at least in my opinion).


It seems to me that holding your child back is probably more of an upper middle class/middle class thing because if you are working class, you can't afford to pay daycare for one more year.
That's not true around here. Even though there are extremes throughout the school, our district is quite low income overall. And the general area around here would be considered middle/lower income.

My mom used to teach 1st grade. After many years she moved and now teaches 6, 7, and 8th grade. She states that 5th and 6th graders today are like 7th and 8th graders were 15 years ago. The kids, overall, know much more and are much more mature (physically, emotionally, etc).
Because she changed grades within the same school she had some kids in 1st grade and again in 8th. She felt many times that the same kids she recommended be held back in 1st grade (and usually the parent would ignore the recommendation), still needed to be held back in 8th. So, regardless what you decide I'd listen to the teacher. If they recommend you hold your child, it's probably a good idea to do so.

[lins_n_derek]

I personally would hold him out until he's 6. I don't have children yet but this is what I would do if I were in your situation. The cutoff in our district is Oct. 1. My cousin's birthday is Aug 30. She started when she was 5 and was held back in the first grade because of immaturity issues. She had a very nervous stomach and the teacher's felt it was because she was immature and so much younger than others in her class. A good family friend has a daughter whose birthday is in Sept. She sent her before she turned five because she got a job as a teacher and so she thought she would be fine since they would be at the same school. She was held back in the fourth grade. She also had a nervous stomach and would get sick when she was nervous or anxious. The teachers also thought this was because even though she was smart for her age and excelled in school there were always kids a year older doing so much better.

I think it is just easier to hold them back than to have to deal with these issues. I also think that 17 almost 18 is too young to start college. There are immaturity issues that will show up at that time as well. It is also hard to decide on things such as dating. My birthday was in April so I was right in the middle of my age group. However, when I was a freshman there were boys who were turning 16 and getting their license. My parents wouldn't let me date them or ride with them but that was hard because we were in the same grade and in all of our classes together. Our district is also really bad about holding kids for sports purposes. Almost all the kids on all the teams were held back to be better at sports....so if you want your child to have a chance to play sports then you have to do that as well. This will not be a deciding factor for my husband and I but something we will keep in the back of our minds when making the decision.

[Traciann]

I think there is a difference between the maturity level of boys and girls. If I had a DS who had a late summer birthday I would most likely hold him back regardless if he was "ready" in every other way. I think it would depend on the girl. We have several schools that offer a bridge to kindergarten class, and that is where I would put them if I held them back.

[SiValleySteph]

Traciann, When you talk about the maturity level of boys and girls are you talking about the age when you start K or when they're older?

Also, isn't that a sweeping generalization about boys? I feel like my son is going to be saddled with negative stereotypes when he starts school that don't really fit him.

[Brady]

Our cutoff is Aug. 31st. My son's bday is in March, which I am glad about as he'll be 5.5 when starting, not the youngest, not the oldest.

Like others, with a Dec. bday I also started at 4.5 (back when the cutoff was 12/31). I did fine. On the other hand, my brother who was a Nov. bday, also started at 4.5 and ended up being held back in 3rd grade. My mother always said she felt he was a little on the immature side, and needless to say- she wished she had waited that extra year to send him. I think as a parent, you will know if they seem ready as it gets closer to that time.

ETA- I hadn't read the previous comments before posting. As the mom of a boy, I am certainly not generalizing and saying boys are more immature. But, in my brother's situation, that did happen to be the case and it would have def. benefited him more to be held out a year before starting school, then be held back later (in his case, 3rd grade).

[SiValleySteph]

Brady, I certainly do not object to anyone evaluating a particular child and decided he/she is immature or has other issues and should be started late. I just don't like the blanket thoughts such as "summer boys should be held back." I think all of us and our children our individuals and should be looked at as such. I'm probably sensitive to it because I don't feel like my son meets all the "boy" stereotypes as he has always had a long attention span and the ability to sit still and concentrate.

[kristin]

When it comes to parenting issues, I'm usually in the "to each his own" camp. However, when it comes to chosing when to start a child in kindergarten, i'll make an exception.

It affects the balance of the classroom when you delay kids just to give them a head start (and again, this is not referring to kids with identified needs or kids on the cusp). When you've got kids that are summer birthday that have just turned 5 and kids that will be 7 in the spring, that is a huge age difference. Who are the teachers supposed to gear their teaching too? I know there is a set curriculum, but I believe most teachers will find the average ability in the classroom and teach at that pace. What happens to those kids who have just turned 5? They are appropriately placed in kindergarten because their parents followed the guidelines and yet they face possible being the "slower" kids in the class.

In the community where I live, it is common to hold kids back for purpose of athletics/giving kids the edge. But these same parents tend to turn around and complain that their kids aren't being challenged, question the teachers ability and push to "move faster" in the classroom. Is that really fair to the kids who are appropriately placed per school district guidelines?

Also, if you push a child ahead, you always have the option of holding him back. But if you hold a child back when they've already started school later than their peers, they would be considerably older than their classmates - and I imagine that would be fairly tough on a child, boy or girl, when they are adolescents.

[AlisonCO]

My initial reaction is the same as yours sivalleysteph - as my son has a long attention span and is a very calm child but is also very sensitive. But after talking to countless elementary school teachers they all say that for the most part boys do mature slower (emotionally) than girls and that they do better in the short term (adjustment-wise) when they are slightly older. Again this is the majority and of course there will be less mature older girls and more mature younger boys but on the whole boys do adjust better when they are slightly older. Now I have no idea what I would do if my son was on the edge - our cutoff is Sept 1 and is very strict (like they almost never let anyone test into K early) and my son's b-day is Oct so he will turn 6 a few weeks after he starts K. For me I might have a serious talk with my preschool teachers and see if they thought that my child was ready for the demands of K today which is much different than when I went. Also because he will be older we have the option of full day K which might be a good option. On the other hand DD will be one of the youngest and I don't foresee holding her back but would have no problem doing so if there were clues in preschool that she was not ready - for me I would rather do an extra year of preschool rather than potentially have to make the decision later and hold back a grade in elementary school. So I guess we will see if the idea of girl vs boy maturity hold true for us!

[Paula R]

Brady, I certainly do not object to anyone evaluating a particular child and decided he/she is immature or has other issues and should be started late. I just don't like the blanket thoughts such as "summer boys should be held back." I think all of us and our children our individuals and should be looked at as such. I'm probably sensitive to it because I don't feel like my son meets all the "boy" stereotypes as he has always had a long attention span and the ability to sit still and concentrate.

I totally agree with not liking the blanket statement about "boys". My son was completely potty trained at 26 months. Started talking at 1 and always spoke cleary and had a very large vocabulary very early.

His birthday is September 26. Our school cutoff is September 1. I thought about holding him back because of the thought of him having to attend school with kids in his grade level that wil be almost 2 years older than him. I spoke with his teachers and they thought he would do just fine. He's 4 now and started Kindergarten on August 13. He is in a private school that has a October 31 cutoff. It has only been a short time but he's doing fine. I think he will adjust well.

[Traciann]

I guess alison explained it better. I am going to school to be a teacher, and have talked about this issue with many of my friends who are currently elementary school teachers and they all agree that boys do not mature as quickly as girls. So for that reason I would be less likely to put a boy who has a late summer birthday in school right after they turn 5. I know that there are always going to be boys who are more ready/and girls who are less ready and I would go with what is best for the child.

[ellybelle]

This is a very timely issue for me right now!

My daughter was born November 26, and there's a Dec. 1 cutoff in our state. The irony is that her due date is December 2 -- so if she'd waited a few more days, there'd be no question as to when to start her in school!

I'm looking at a bilingual immersion program in our school district -- which would mean signing my daughter up in January-- 5 months from today. She'd start kindergarten in less than a year!

And I have to say that I'm really torn about it. On the one hand, she's tall and appears to be reasonably coordinated/athletic (kid didn't get it from me, btw!) . She's adapting pretty well to preschool social life, etc. On the other hand, I worry about whether she'll developmentally and tempermentally ready to go into kindergarten (and 1st grade!) as it exists today, especially if she's plunged into a second language environment (the K/1 classes are taught almost exclusively in Spanish, and students are expected to be reading in Spanish by then end of first grade).

To complicate things further, she generally "stores up" learning, and refuses to move forward until she's mastered something. So it's sometimes hard for me to know what she knows, because she doesn't want to "embarrass" herself by making a mistake. I'd really want to know that she'd feel safe in the classroom -- otherwise, I worry that she'd get frustrated or give up.

[ellybelle]

As for the issues of boys and girls, I really think it depends on the kid. Sure, girls tend to mature faster than boys, but there's a huge range. Saying a boy isn't ready to go into kindergarten because of his age is like saying a 13 year old girl isn't ready for algebra because girls tend to lag behind boys in math! That's not to say that there aren't general trends, but blanket statements are ridiculous. I believe parents should think for themselves, be honest about their own kids, get good feedback from people who know about the research AND the kids, and do as much research as they can, rather than just accept some decision based on popular opinion and fear. The question then becomes -- is my child ready/capable of doing XYZ? And am I honest about it?

There are bell curves involved in this, like anything else. While girls may be ready for school at an earlier age than boys (for a variety of reasons, including the way that most classrooms are run), there's a real variation. For example, I was an older (January) child who was ready academically, but had ADD and wasn't very good at following directions. I struggled mightily in early grades because I couldn't sit still and follow directions, yet I could do grade level math w/o much problem and could read 1st grade texts at the age of 4. At the same time, I struggled with social and physical (sports-related) issues.

[ellybelle]

When it comes to parenting issues, I'm usually in the "to each his own" camp. However, when it comes to chosing when to start a child in kindergarten, i'll make an exception.

It affects the balance of the classroom when you delay kids just to give them a head start (and again, this is not referring to kids with identified needs or kids on the cusp). When you've got kids that are summer birthday that have just turned 5 and kids that will be 7 in the spring, that is a huge age difference. Who are the teachers supposed to gear their teaching too? I know there is a set curriculum, but I believe most teachers will find the average ability in the classroom and teach at that pace. What happens to those kids who have just turned 5? They are appropriately placed in kindergarten because their parents followed the guidelines and yet they face possible being the "slower" kids in the class.

In the community where I live, it is common to hold kids back for purpose of athletics/giving kids the edge. But these same parents tend to turn around and complain that their kids aren't being challenged, question the teachers ability and push to "move faster" in the classroom. Is that really fair to the kids who are appropriately placed per school district guidelines?
.

I really agree with this -- I worry that my not-yet-5 year-old daughter would start in a class with 6 year olds and feel intimidated. So I feel like I'm being pushed to hold her back a year. On the other hand, as a January baby, I remember feeling more comfortable with older kids, especially once I was in high school. It's enough to make me throw my hands up!

[AlisonCO]

It affects the balance of the classroom when you delay kids just to give them a head start (and again, this is not referring to kids with identified needs or kids on the cusp).

ITA especially if you are holding them back for a reason like size or sports potential! I think that on the other hand (and I have seen this years ago when I was in schools) that pushing kids ahead or testing them in when they are not emotionally ready for the demands of K today you will also see negative affects on the balance of the classroom. When I was teaching I became friends with the TAG and am K teachers and in that district (unlike mine) testing early into K was just about academics and not at all about other readiness signs so you might have a K class with a bunch of 5 and 6 year olds and 2-3 old 4 year olds. One class in particular had 2 old 4's who were bright but were SO not ready for the structure of K, dealing with that many other kids or the fact that they could not run their own day they had to follow the activities. The poor K teacher was so stressed because all she was doing all day was dealing with the behavior issues that she ended up getting a part time aid and she spent most of her day with the younger kids. She felt like maybe they would be better off doing a second year of K but of course the parents would have none of that and off to first grade they went where the demands increased and the one on one decreased.

Of course like I said before, there will always be kids on either side so I do think that the best thing to do is evaluate each individual kid to deside what is going to work best for them.

[Ohana]

Where I grew up, the deadline was Sept 15, and I was born on the 18th. My parents opted to have me start per the deadline (they could have petitioned to have me start a year early), so I was always the oldest in the class. For me, it worked out to my benefit.

DD#2 is in the same boat, as her birthday is on the cutoff date of Sept 1. DH and I do not plan to petition the school to let her start early (if your child's birthday is prior to Oct 1, they let you start the child early if you want). I benefitted from being the oldest in the class, and for now, I think DD will, too.

[PinkMartini]

Cutoff date in Wy (where we'll be living when DS is old enough for K) is September 30. DS was born October 19. Sooo he'll be almost 6 before he's able to start.

[catmom]

ITA especially if you are holding them back for a reason like size or sports potential!

Just curious- does this really happen that often? I know I hear about it in the paper and whatnot, but no one I know knows anyone who has actually done this. I wonder if this is one of those things that has been overblown in the media.

[kristin]

Catmom - I think it is overblown in the media to a certain extent. It varies by community, and in my opinion, the wealthier the town, the more likely it is to happen.

In my community, I can think of about a dozen moms I know who have held kids back or are contemplating holding kids back to give their kids the edge. We are moving, and honestly, I can't wait!

[catmom]

the wealthier the town, the more likely it is to happen.


That's what I would guess, too, but I live in the DC suburbs in one of the wealthiest counties in the US. I wonder if this issue may have more to do with sports, though, since I don't think parents get quite as stressed about them as other places- the focus is much more on getting your kids into a top college.

[Abby'sMom]

We live in a wealthy area, and parents are absolutely holding kids back to give them the academic edge.

Incidentally, catmom, I bet I'm originally from the county you live in now. ;)

[pocahontas]

I always read these threads (school related) with interest being a teacher. But this comment comes without my "teacher hat" on...rather from personal experience since I see so many of you grew up in or at least close to New England where I was born and raised. I see that for most of us Northerners the cut off was LATE. I think the latest I read anyone comment in this thread was December 31. Some of you all thought that was beneficial and some of you thought it sucked. Well, I think I can beat that...can you imagine if your cut off was March 31?! :eek: (YES, that is what it was where I went to school although I believe it has changed now this was in the 70s). Now I was a May baby...so I missed this by over a month. Therefore, it wasn't an issue for me but my little cousin was born March 18 and YES, she was in kindergarten at 4 and remained 4 for most of the year not turning 5 until 3 months before school ended. This is the way it was for most of her time in school...always the youngest by far. (Incidentally, she turned out just fine, has 2 college degrees, is a college professor and assistant headmaster at Massachusetts high school.) She didn't really have any negative school experiences as a result of being so young and in fact it was her younger sister who had all the academic trouble and she was born in October so wasn't as young in her grade at all! Therefore, I have to agree with those that say it isn't chronological age but readiness.

[catmom]

We live in a wealthy area, and parents are absolutely holding kids back to give them the academic edge.

Maybe I'm just talking to the wrong people, then. Most of the people I know are itching to stop paying for preschool, which is sooo expensive. Of course that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people who are holding their kids out. I wonder if there are stats on this somewhere? Like the % of kids who start K past the age of 6?

[SiValleySteph]

I also live in a wealthy area. I really have never heard of this IRL. Maybe I'm talking to the wrong mommies.

My county is also 30% Asian and culturally this would seem unlikely in the Asian community. (It is desirable to have your child be ahead, not behind. This is a bit like holding back.)

Also, most of my friends work and daycare is a big expense. I can't imagine voluntarily paying for another year of daycare if there wasn't an obvious issue to hold a chlid back a year.

[coquelicot]

Around here, I don't know what the cutoff date is, but they're talking about moving it up to July 1st. Back home, it was October 2nd. As a late July baby, I was always one of the youngest in my class--and the very youngest for a year or two in elementary school. Starting kindergarten at barely 5 didn't seem to affect me. I actually ended up in accelerated classes by second grade, and stayed in them until I graduated HS. I never felt like I was "behind" the other kids just because I was a few months younger. It helped that I was average height and build, and that I...um, blossomed early. ;)

DH's nephew, though, has a Sept. 30th birthday. Due to him being so close to the cutoff, his mom did wait a year before starting him in kindergarten.

I just think it depends on the child. I understand the need for a cutoff date, but to say that every child before that date is ready, and that every child after the date is not, is a rash overgeneralization.

[Abby'sMom]

Perhaps I should clarify my earlier statement with a few details:

1) I run with an almost strictly SAHM crowd. So, we don't deal with daycare costs.

2) Money isn't really an issue for most of the families I know, so spending another $2K for a year of preschool is a moot point to them. - They figure they'll more than make it up when their ahead-of-the-curve child gets an academic scholarship down the road.

[catmom]

$2K for a year of preschool is a moot point to them

ah, this may be the issue. You can't send your child to preschool in my area for $2k, even for only 2 days a week. For a 5 day, prek program, you're looking at more like $6-7k. Some (like montessori), are more, and if you have more than one child that really adds up. And I would also say that most of the women I know plan to go back to work as soon as their DC is in kindergarten if not sooner (assuming they don't have a younger one at home), so pushing that back an extra year is kind of a big deal to some people.

[Abby'sMom]

Ok, so I probably took liberties when it comes to the cost of preschool programs ;) because my DD's program IS only about $2K/year. Most of them are in the $4-6K range, based on the research a friend of mine did last year. The really exclusive schools with long wait-lists have costs equivalent to those of private schools. I don't know why they don't care about the cost; I do. That's why DD goes to a cheaper program.

Sort of unrelated, but it's also en vogue to send your 2 year old to preschool these days, too. DD is coming up on 3, and she's going because *I'd* like 5 hours a week with just DS. Plenty of moms I know send their kiddos at 2 in order to get an academic head start.

[catmom]

it's also en vogue to send your 2 year old to preschool these days, too.

That's the case here, too, for sure. DD is 2.5 and people think it's downright strange that I'm not sending her this year (I looked into programs and decided she just wasn't ready yet). So I guess if you send your kid to preschool at 2 and then hold them back for K, they are in preschool for 4 years!

[kristin]

It's "en vogue" to send your two year old to preschool where I live too. My DS is a March b-day, and I assumed he would be one of the youngest in his class last year, but he was actually one of the oldest! I sent him because I thought he needed the socialization, and I have alot of friends who tend to be rather flaky with scheduled playdates. Also, I wanted some one-one one time with my infant. It was only two hours each morning, two days/week.

Where we are moving, they dont' even have the option of 2yo preschool. Some of my friends have commented that this is great, because he will be ahead of his new classmates in his new school. I think this is laughable! Ahead in 3 yo prschool! Let's get him on the fast-track for Harvard now!

[jki]

DS's preschool has about 30 kids and I was looking at the birthdays on the roster - there are 5 kids whose birthdays would qualify them for Kindergarten this year. So - half of the Pre-K class consists of kids who are 5 or who will turn 5 before December 1. IMO, that's a lot. It's definitely popular where we live to hold kids back a year - kids with birthdays as early as May or June. I've heard athletic reasons cited more often than anything else, which I think is ridiculous. Oh and we are also in a wealthy area where preschool averages $700/mo for 3 mornings/week and goes up to $17K/year for Montessori preschool.

[jewel]

Not all boys should be held back, but I have yet to talk to a parent of a fall boy who was unhappy that they held him back.

DS1 is an October baby. Our cutoff here is Dec 15 or something like that. The other part of the issue is that we have full day Kindergarten.

Yes, we could have sent DS1 to Kindergarten last year. But he really benefitted socially from another year of preschool. We found an excellent and inexpensive program. So in a way, we did give him a "leg up" by waiting a year to start, but really I feel like all we did was offer him a level playing field. He isn't having to learn all the academics and mature socially to catch up with his peers.

[SiValleySteph]

Just for fun, I took a survey of 5 coworkers on our way to lunch today. All have children (okay, one is expecting), and 2 of them have multiple children already in school.

None of them have ever heard of this.

All 5 were also Asian or Indian, which is the demographic for Silicon Valley engineers. :)

[jesseybell]

pocahontas - I grew up and still live in New England. You are right. When we were in school it was December 31. What ended up happening was that every single kid started school when they should have and every single one with a birthday of September 1 - December 31 ended up staying back in first or second grade. And do did the grade ahead of us. My birthday is August 20 and I was one of the youngest kids in my class - there were quite a few kids who were 48-50 weeks older than me. It was fine during elementary school, but when we got to middle school and kids started going through puberty (and I was a late bloomer anyways) that it was noticeable.

Even before DD was born people were commenting about whether we would be keeping her back.

Now the cute off is September 1st and my friend's DD is September 14. She is more than beyond ready to go to kindergarten, but she can't even petition to have her start. She knows in the long run it will be best for her to be the oldest in her class, especially because she has the potential to not be a very tall kid.

[catmom]

every single one with a birthday of September 1 - December 31 ended up staying back in first or second grade. And do did the grade ahead of us

Yep- I remember when the cutoff was later, and I can't tell you the number of kids I knew who were held back sometime before 3rd grade. I think it used to be really common, at least based on my own observations. And I'm sure it was pretty hard on the 1st and second graders, because by that time there is more of a stigma about being held back. I remember kids making up all kids of wild stories about why they were staying back since I think they were kind of embarrased about it.