Breastfeeding Help and Support Part VI

[Marisa]

This can be the new thread, I will copy links and info from the other threads here...

Breastfeeding Help and Support, Part V (http://www.constantchatter.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31293)

[Marisa]

saving, just in case

[Marisa]

I'm copying gator97's post from the old thread so it doesn't get lost --

I have been reading along in this thread since getting pregnant. Now DD is 1 wk old and I need some advice. DD was very sleepy the first few days and we had some issues with our latch. I had inverted nipples which I don't think helped. So I have some cuts on my nipples that are still healing. We are still working on the latch and are mostly getting the hang of it. Since my milk came in on Sunday, DD wants to eat all.the.time. Since Sun, we went from eating every 3 hrs then cluster feeding in the afternoon to eating almost all day--with maybe an hour or two in between.

I know some of it is for soothing herself b/c any time she is woken up she wants to nurse back to sleep-even if she just spent the last hour eating. So, my first question is how do I know she's really hungry? We'd like to find other ways to soothe her but not torture her by trying if she is hungry. Is it normal for her to eat this much? She has great output. Her poop is more orange than yellow, though--but it is seedy so she's getting that hindmilk, right?. Is it possible she's eating so frequently b/c she's not getting enough in each feeding--perhaps our latch is off?

My other question is regarding our latch. Sometimes DD rears her head back while searching for the breast. I have a hard time guiding her to the nipple b/c she fights me. I am making sure my fingers aren't on the back of her head but rather at the base.

Any help would be appreciated. I am one tired, sore momma.


gator -- are you using a nipple shield? Usually inverted nipples need a little help getting 'drawn out' in the beginning, to give a newborn something to latch onto. A nipple shield can serve that purpose. Since you mention that you've already got some damage, it sounds like you need to try something more than what you're doing right now. (I used a shield for about 6 weeks for the same reason, and by the time we were done with it my nipples had permanently changed shape.)

The nursing all the time is actually pretty normal for a newborn. She's going from eating 24/7, every time your heart beats, to eating only sporadically -- it might take her a little time to learn how things work here on the outside. :) A newborn's tummy is about the size of her fist, so they don't hold much at first -- a schedule of every two hours or so (from beginning of feeding to beginning of feeding) is common. Poop color sounds fine too -- there's a range of colors that are just fine, and it's seedy as you said -- that means she's getting plenty of hindmilk.

I would recommend letting her nurse whenever she seems interested, at least for the immediate future. Yes, it's partially soothing, but a newborn needs calories and there's no way you can overfeed her just by nursing her. Making yourself more comfortable while nursing will help this challenging time go more smoothly -- not only by getting yourself a nipple shield so that you can heal, but also by creating a nursing 'area' where you have your TV, your snacks, your boppy, your whatever-you-need to feel settled. Make sure you're asking DH and any friends/family for help whenever you can so you can get comfy and stay put with the baby.

Nipple shields are available at Target, BTW, in the baby feeding aisle. More info (http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/nipshield.html)

Almost forgot the last question -- Are you swaddling her before you feed her? Even if it's hot, she can be in just a diaper with a cotton receiving blanket swaddle. Newborns' nervous systems are not very developed at this point and she may just not be able to control the flailing. A tight swaddle can help some babies calm down (as it mimics the closeness of the womb).

[gator97]

Marisa- thanks so much for your help. I am not using a nipple shield but will go get one. We swaddle about 50% of the time and run into the same head issue either way. The swaddling helps keep those hands out of the way, though.

I notice today that we are having issues with the latch b/c she won't open very wide. She opens a little bit and then gets frustrated and starts fussing. Any idea on how to get her to open wide?

[katmg]

Yay for a new thread!

I've been BFing for 6 months now (woo hoo!) and have just started introducing solids. My doctor would like DD to be eating solids two times a day. How in the heck do you fit in eating solids twice a day separated by at least an hour from a nursing, plus 5 nursings, plus 2 naps (at least), plus a little bit of play time. Right now our schedule goes something like this:

6-7 am wake up and nurse
9 am nurse
9-10ish nap
12 nurse
12-1ish nap
3 pm nurse
6-7 pm bed time and nurse

Typing it out makes it seem easy to squeeze in the feedings after the nap but sometimes she doesn't go down for a nap right away. Then once she does nap and wakes up we miss the window where I could feed solids since it is time to nurse again. UGH. I'm definitely able to get in at least one feeding - usually in the afternoon. I just feel like all I'm going to be doing is shuttling her between her crib, the high chair and the glider (to nurse). Does this sound right?

[mimieliza]

Thanks for the new thread, Marisa! :)

I'm probably driving everyone crazy with my insecurities... :o

DD (8.5 months) has been ravenous. I nursed her at 5:00 AM, 8:30 AM and briefly at 9:30 AM when I dropped her off at daycare. She had water/juice at 10:00 and was put down for a nap. She woke after 40 minutes (usually sleeps 1.5 hours) in a cranky mood, so DCP tried feeding her. She wolfed down two jars of food, yogurt, and water. She was obviously tired at that point, so DCP put her back down for a nap and she slept 1.5 hours.

DD did the same thing yesterday - woke from PM nap after about 40 minutes. I nursed her, but she was cranky until dinner when she wolfed down her food.

We're only doing solids 2x a day - do I need to up it to 3x? Could my supply have taken a dip from the heat? I've upped the Fenugreek and water, but taking this much is hard on my tummy. I guess I'll see if that helps.

Anyway, I'm just worried that so much of her breastmilk diet is being replaced by solids. That's just the way it goes, right? 8 months just seems so young, and we're nowhere near being ready to wean, so I don't want to lose my supply.


gator - I agree with all Marisa's advice, but I feel for you - it's so ouchy to have a non-stop nurser and sore nips. Do what you can to help your nips heal, but also remember that all the time she spends nursing is sooooo good for her - she's getting lots of good milk and building up your milk supply. If you desperately need a break, maybe your DH can swaddle her and swing/sway or shush her (have you read Happiest Baby on the Block yet?). It's perfectly normal for a newborn to want to nurse whenever they are awake. I used to get positively murderous when someone would wake DD because then she would want back on my poor, painful boobs.

[gator97]

mimieliza- thanks for sympathizing. I feel so awful that I dread when she wakes. . .but I am just so sore.

I went to Target and got a nipple shield. It's a 24mm standard---all that they had. This is different then how the sizing is listed on Medela's website. Is this right?

[MrsKinnison]

Gator ~ I just wanted to add that I can remember during those first few days almost wishing DS would cry so that his mouth would open wide enough for me to shove myself in there for a good latch. Makes me laugh now to think back on it, but it was very frustrating at the time. Just know that you are not alone and it does get better!

[MrsKinnison]

Oh, and thanks for the new thread Marisa :D I am so happy to have you!!

Also, I never believed it would happen, but I really am comfortable nursing anywhere now! I've nursed at the park before, but yesterday I nursed at The 99 restaurant. It felt so natural and I was very proud of myself!

[lauren f s]

katmg: It's been 3 years since I did this, so I'm not 100% sure this is exactly how I did solids with Ava but I think it's close. It's what I'm aiming for with James at any rate (once we start). Anyway, I wanted her solids to be fed at meal times. So if I were to nurse at noon, I'd nurse, then feed her solids. Then do the nap. Then at 5 or so I'd do another serving of solids, bath, nurse, bed. I liked to do "dinner" right before the bath because she always go so filthy. This seemed to work well for us. Good luck!

[babylove]

gator ~ A good way to encourage baby to open wide is to put your thumb on her chin and gently pull down (to open her mouth) as you pull her into your breast. Holding your breast so that your hands form a "U" around the nipple (with your thumb and fingers facing up toward your face) makes a "sandwich" and makes it easier for your baby to get a good latch. I know it seems like you have to have three hands to make this work, but once you and baby get the hang it will be like second nature!


katmg~ Basically, you're right, you're basically shuffling between nap, nurse, solids all day! I never waited one hour between nursing and feeding solids just b/c it wasn't possible withour schedule. But, like mimieliza, we did try to orchestrate the solids around traditional "mealtimes". You might just have to tweak the nursing schedule a bit to make it work. Good luck!

mimieliza ~ I think it's probably different for everyone when it comes to solids, but by 8.5 mo, my DS was eating 3 solid meals per day, plus nursing 5X (though some of those nursing sessions were brief). Most of his nutrition was still BM. Can you send another bottle of EBM to daycare? Or add a nursing session when you're home with her? You don't have to add a third meal of solids if you don't feel comfortable doing so.

[gator97]

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone! We had a great afternoon and evening here. DH was able to take DD and soothe her using the S's from Dr. Karp (funny you had asked mimieliza) and all of us got a much needed long nap. I think she was getting a bit overtired. The nipple shield worked great. She didn't pop off as much as she was so it is helping her in that arena. We are all much, much happier.

You all are WONDERFUL!

[steelcitymama]

thank you for the new thread!

i have a question re: itchy breasts....mine have been itchy recently. really itchy. when i sleep bra-less at night they feel fine, but they're itchy during the day in my bras. in fact, last evening i had DD in a BabyHawk against my chest while we were visiting friends and when we came home, my breasts were super red and itchy. it died down a ton once i took my bra off. i thought it was an allergic reaction (new bra), but today i'm having a similar issue in an older, much-washed bra.

for the record (in case this is relevant), as of Tuesday evening, I began switching DD from eating from both breasts during a nursing session to alternating breasts. so, i've been a bit more engorged & leaky recently...but mainly at night (which is when i'm the least itchy, actually). ???? any thoughts?

[boilermaker]

steelcity, dried milk can most definitely make you itchy, as can breast pads. Are you using pads?

[juliemag]

I am feeling very discouraged about my output this week, and I could use some advice. My first pump Monday morning was a whopping record for me - 7 oz! I thought "wow, what a great way to start the week!". Well, fast forward to now - at my last pump of the week I didn't even get a total of 2 oz. My supply has steadily been decreasing all week. The only thing I've done different this week is introduce Fenugreek on Tuesday. Tuesday was the first day I noticed the dwindling of supply, and it's just gotten worse. I had been consistently pumping roughly 5 oz in the morning, then 4 oz at the other two pumping sessions. Today, I was at 4 oz, 3 oz, and then just now at barely 2 oz. Did anyone else have an issue similar to mine? I pump for 20-25 minutes each time I pump and I BF on demand when I'm at home. I give DS 4 oz bottles when I'm not there. My first thought was that AF was about to show, or perhaps I was ovulating - as I haven't been graced with my first PPAF yet. This is the third full day I've taken the Fenugreek, and am taking 3 610 mg capsules per meal. Has anyone been known to have a drop in supply from Fenugreek? I mean, I know its supposed to help - but it's certainly not been my situation thus far!

Anyway.... I'm rambling and could use some advice. Thanks so much! :)

[lauren f s]

Julie, this is exactly what happened to me last week. I started fenugreek last Tuesday and my supply seemed to get worse. I increased the amount of fenugreek I took and when I'd get home I'd nurse DS on one side and pump on the other. Then I'd wake up early in the mornings and pump first thing, too. I also increased the time I pump, from 20 minutes to 30-45. I don't know if you're able to do that at your job, but mine is fine with it. I've found that after a week of pumping a few minutes after milk stopped flowing I'm able to get a second letdown and milk starts gushing out. Today I pumped 6 oz at each session, which is huge compared to a week ago.

If I were you, I'd increase the fenugreek and squeeze in a little pumping at home, even if you're doing it while DS nurses. It's a PITA (for me at least) but I think it helped a lot. Spend the weekend pumping and nursing and I bet by Monday things will be getting better. They certainly have for me! Good luck :)

[steelcitymama]

thanks for the response, boilermaker! i am using Lansinoh breast pads during the day in my bras. not b/c i'm leaky, but b/c i put on the lansinoh lanolin stuff after every nursing session and i don't want it to leak through my bras onto my clothes. maybe i'll try going without and see how that works???

thanks again!

[boilermaker]

steelcity, do you need the lanolin cream? If you do, you may want to try switching to different pads. I found I had a reaction to the gerber ones but no problem with the lansinoh ones. I also was fine with the reusable cotton ones but didn't like the fact that for me, you could easily see them through shirts. Because if you are leaking into your bra, that can make you itchy as well. Also, if you aren't changing the pads often enough...3-4 a day sometimes.

[Ade]

DS has been exclusively BF since birth (as in no formula). At about 3 months, he started to get green poo, so I began an elimination diet. After keeping a food diary and watching DS's reactions and behavior, I've noticed sensitivities to Dairy, soy, tree nuts and peanuts.

I felt like I had things under control, but kept having set backs, so thought it best to consult with an allegist. After listening to my whole story, she did a quick scratch test, of which DS had a slight reaction to only peanuts, nothing to dairy, soy or walnut. She kind of regarded me as an over reactive first time parent and told me that I should start trying to "challenge" DS with foods I have cut out. After eating small amounts of some "forbidden foods", DS was up from 3AM -7AM crying.

So, my question is, is it likely that he does indeed have food intolerances even though the scratch tests were negative, or am I just an over reative first time mom that's looking for an excuse as to why her almost 9 month old still wakes up several times during the night?

[steelcitymama]

boilermaker~thanks again for the feedback. maybe i'll try a different brand of pads and see how that goes. what i did after i read your post was cut some some thin prefold diapers that someone gave us. i'm still feeling itchy, but i haven't showered since i removed the pads. i normally don't leak during the day (which is when i wear the pads), but i do leak during the night (when i'm bra-less). i'll make sure to really wipe off my breasts during the night and will keep using my make-shift cloth pads to see if that makes a difference. thanks again for your help!

[Wrighty26]

Julie - I consistently went through the pattern of starting the week off with high ounces and then diminishing through the week. It was especially noticeable when my supply regulated (which may be what it happening to you). Breastfeeding all weekend (and on demand) definitely makes my body produce more on Monday -- so I really have no advice -- I think it was just my body's reaction to the pump. I would keep taking the Fenugreek -- maybe add some Lethicin (which I always saw results from, more so than Fenugreek -- but everyone is different). I also think a tincture like More Milk Plus works better than talking tablets (again, I think it depends on the person). Oh and don't stress about it (easier said than done, I know), because it can really make it so much worse. HTH!

steelcitymama - You said you are using lanolin -- are you by any chance allergic to wool? I am -- and used lanolin without realizing it's a wool product and it led to itchy (and somewhat painful) bbs. Just putting that out there!

[boilermaker]

Ade, I thought the scratch tests were for allergies, not intolerances. My DD is not allergic to dairy, only almonds (though not any other nuts). But she is intolerant of dairy and it makes her miserable..which makes me miserable. I have tried to add it back in 3 times now and I can finally eat small amounts of cheese and yogurt but no milk yet. So I think there is a difference between intolerance and allergic.

[babylove]

Ade ~ Have you spoken to your DS's ped about the potential for food sensitivities? If you really think that your DS is sensitive to certain foods, then just eliminate them from your diet. Although green poops can be normal (my DS had green poops sometimes and had no food sensitivities), perhaps you can bring in a poop diaper to your ped so they can do a stool test. I think a call to the ped is probably in order.

[cosmic]

This is the third full day I've taken the Fenugreek, and am taking 3 610 mg capsules per meal. Has anyone been known to have a drop in supply from Fenugreek?

I haven't had a drop in supply from fenugreek capsules, but I did have some breakthrough bleeding. (I later read that fenugreek is an emmenagogue. :rolleyes: ) It also gave DS slightly green poopies. But Mother's Milk Tea, which has fenugreek, worked fine for me and didn't cause any problems. Also, as Wrighty said, lecithin really helps too. In fact, if I had to choose, I'd go with the lecthin! :)

[whitlockan]

juliemag you consistantly pumped 5 oz each session? May I ask why you decided to take fenu, now you have me worried I get about 6 oz a session each day, will this not be enough in a few months? Also I'd certinaly make sure to pump on the weekends as well, perhaps after each feeding if you can and extend your sessions until you get a second letdown if you can.

Ade I also thought scratch tests were for allergies and not intolerances? It sounds similer to what we go through when we had the dairy issues in the beginning. If you see a pattern as to what is bothering your DC it might just be easier to leave them out, well at least a lot less stressful, no one enjoys a crying baby for 4 hours, been there I know how you feel!! With DS's diary allergies, he'd cry for hours as well as developed a rash, but no green poops.

[daphne]

Is it really not possible to overfeed a breastfed baby?

DD has projectile vomited twice in the last week, after prolonged nursing sessions. I just took her temp & it is 99.0, which doesn't seem overly high, but maybe it is?

her birth weight was 9lbs 6 oz
discharge weight 8lbs 14oz (at 40 hours)
1 wk weight check 8lbs 14 1/2 oz
2 wk check 10lbs 1 oz
1 mo appt 12 lbs 4 1/2 oz

She's certainly gaining a lot of weight, which makes me wonder if she vomited only b/c there was so much milk in her tummy? is that possible?

any ideas? :confused:

[gator97]

size of nipple shield? This may be a stupid question:
I bought the 24 mm contact shield that they had at Target---but see that Medela makes smaller ones. My nipple does not fill the shield---there is a bit of a gap. Should I get a smaller shield? I don't want to limit our milk transfer by using the wrong size.

Thanks in advance

[vjel]

my ds is teething. I just bought some Hyland's teething tablets today and the box says to check w/ healthcare professional before using if nursing (or pg). Is there any reason why I couldn't use the tablets while nursing ds? He doesn't seem to be in a lot of discomfort but he is rubbing his gums w/ his tongue a lot so I'm sure it's bugging him a little bit.

TIA!

[Katie&Micah]

Please help.. I'm getting so frustrated!

DD is 6 days old and is still not feeding as much as she should be. She's also not having enough wet diapers. My milk has come in and there is plenty of it, but she gets upset every time I put her up to the breast. Up until today she was latching on great, just wasn't eating frequently or for very long. But today she's decided she doesn't want anything to do with nursing. She cries when I try to feed her and won't latch on. I've been pumping and I'm really tempted to just give her a bottle, but I don't want to make things even worse by confusing her. She's only had 1 wet and 1 dirty diaper all day (meaning from midnight last night up until now) and this really worries me. Do you think at this point its more important that she eats anything or that I keep trying the breastfeeding even though she is refusing it today? I'm not talking about stopping breastfeeding all together.. just right now. Should I go warm up a bottle for her??

[Marisa]

gator -- the smaller sized shields are typically for use with preemies -- your nipple shouldn't fill the shield, it will be drawn up into it a bit when in use but typically there's empty space at the tip.

vjel -- I believe that's a standard disclaimer put on products that have not been specifically tested on breastfeeding mothers. But the tablets are for DS anyway, and he's clearly not PG or breastfeeding anyone. ;)

Katie -- it's important that you start seeing the number of diapers increase. Rule #1 is always 'feed the baby', and she might be more receptive to nursing once she gets a little in her tummy first.

Can you try feeding by cup (a small medicine cup with an oz or so, hold it up so she can lap at it) or via syringe (one of those small medicine droppers that comes with the baby toiletries kit)?

You say you have plenty of milk -- are you getting a strong letdown? Maybe she's overwhelmed with the rush of milk when she does go to nurse, so now she's avoiding it? Can you try pumping a bit before you go to feed her (maybe when DH is offering the dropper of milk) -- then try again once you've already had a letdown, and see if she's receptive to a slower flow?

Just hang in there today, do what you have to to get through, and call someone tomorrow morning, either a hospital LC or LLL, someone who can see her nurse in person and give you other thoughts based on that. (Internet advice can be tricky, you know! :))

[Katie&Micah]

Marisa,

Thanks so much for the advice.

I'm not really sure about the strong letdown. To be honest I'm still trying to figure out what's going on since my milk just came in on Friday evening. I have tried pumping first and it didn't make a difference. She just doesn't seem interested in eating today. She will however go nuts if I stick my pinky in her mouth.

I'm definitely going to try the cup and syringe right now. Thank you! I think I'll stop by the hospital tomorrow and see if one of the nurses can help me. The LC was on vacation when I gave birth and will be all next week. And we're in a really small town, so she's pretty much our only option. If the cup and syringe don't work I'm going to warm up a bottle for her. You're completely right that her eating is what's the most important thing. I just needed someone to tell me that because everything I've read says not to go back and forth between the bottle and the breast.

[katmg]

Katie - My DD refused the breast at about 6 days old. I don't really know what happened even - for 2 or 3 feedings in a row I could not get her to latch on. She would just scream bloody murder and I was getting so upset. In our case, we gave her about an ounce of Pedialyte (some people disagree with Pedialyte) in a bottle so she would have something in her tummy and then the next time I fed her I used the football hold instead of the cross-cradle hold. Miracle of miracles - it worked! It took both my mother and my husband corraling DD and my boobs but we made it work. After that we were back to nursing without problem. I used the football hold until she physically got too big for it but that was at about 1 month-6 weeks. HTH!

[Katie&Micah]

katmg,

It's so nice to hear from someone else who has gone through this. I'm just so confused. She ate constantly the past 2 days and today she wants nothing. I've been using the football hold the entire time since I had a c-section.

I was able to get her drink an ounce from a medicine dropper and gave her another ounce in a bottle. I went ahead and tried to give her another ounce, but she isn't interested. I'm going to go pump and then try to breastfeed again in an hour or so. I think she may be having a hard time latching on because I'm so engorged, but I tried the reverse pressure softening technique on the LLL website and she still screamed. I just don't know. There's so many things to worry about as a new mom.

[Marisa]

Two oz. is a great amount for a tiny newborn, I wouldn't push any more than that. Remember that her stomach is only the size of her fist, so plan any more cup/bottle meals accordingly. :)

This is the page for LLL in the US: http://www.llli.org/WebUS.html

There may not be a meeting nearby but there may be a leader who can at least speak with you. This is the Missouri list: http://www.llli.org/Web/Missouri.html

Changing holds like kat said is a great suggestion too -- I also had a C/S but I found I could get comfortable with other holds once I figured out the magic combination of pillows (for me it was one behind my back, boppy in front, couch pillows on either side, feet up on the hassock. :))

[Katie&Micah]

So the night did get a little better. She ended up drinking another 1 1/2 oz (from a bottle) and nursed for a few minutes. She doesn't seem to be pulling the nipple in far enough anymore and she's only sucking 4 or 5 times and then letting go.

I did order a nipple shield on Friday, so hopefully that will come soon and we'll see if that helps.

She had a total of 4 pees and 2 poops for the day. The pee all seemed to happen at once. Maybe she was holding it in... lol

Thanks for the links, I'll check those out tomorrow. I really need our hospital's LC to come back from vacation so I can get some help in person.

[Marisa]

Katie, is there a Target near you guys? They sell the nipple shields too, in the baby feeding aisle, in case the one you ordered takes a while to get to you.

Just be sure to pump every time she gets milk from a bottle or other source, and be careful with her latch, that's the danger of the bottle nipple. When she does get to nurse, make sure she's latching deeply; unlike the bottle which will give her milk no matter how she latches, she needs to really get onto the breast to effectively suck (and you don't want to get sore from a bad latch either!).

Now that you're seeing the diapers you want, try to cut back on the bottle supplementing, you know she's getting some nutrition so you can see if after a 1/2 oz or so she'll hang out and nurse for a little bit too.

[Katie&Micah]

Unfortunately I'm about 2 hours from a Target or anywhere that would sell those nipple shields.

What a fantastic idea about starting with the bottle and finishing with the breast. I was feeding her a bottle when I read your post and now she's nursing. I'm not sure how long it will last for, but anything is better than nothing. Thanks :D

[RobynScott]

Hey all - I have been reading this thread for a while - and took a BFing class and been reading "The Nursing Mother's Companion" the last few days - so I'm not 100% clueless (though I feel that way ;))

I'm headed into the hospital for an induction tonight so will hopefully get to meet baby very soon. Anyone have any last minute / first timer advice to get BFing off on the right start? I know to try and nurse as soon after delivery as possible (and as much as possible after that) - but what else? My boobs are already really big - and based on the description in TNMC - I'm pretty sure my nipples are large as well (larger than a quarter) which she says can be one of the things that leads to BFing issues.

So - words of wisdom to get the best possible start?

Also, did you have your baby room in at night or head to the nursery?

I plan on instructing no formula / glucose water or pacifiers - anything else?

Thanks for any and all advice - I can't believe this is all about to happen!

(sidenote - we had a 'trial' run at the hospital on Saturday to check if I was leaking fluid and I told Dh I couldn't have the baby yet b/c I didn't know how to breastfeed! (hadn't read TNMC yet) - yeah - I'm being more than a little neurotic about this but I really want it to work - thanks!)

[Asha]

I'm pretty sure my nipples are large as well (larger than a quarter) which she says can be one of the things that leads to BFing issues.

i didn't know this could be an issue. my nipples have grown to a gargantuan size (lets just say they are MUCH bigger than a quarter or any coin for that matter). haven't given birth yet, so i don't know if this will be a problem for us, but if it does pose a problem, what are the suggestions on how to compensate for this?

[katmg]

I haven't had any problems with my gigantor nips.

My only advice would be to try to relax. Anytime I was stressed about bfing, DD could sense it and wouldn't feed as well. Good luck!

[Marisa]

Relaxing is good advice! :)

Make a sign for your baby's bassinet that spells out your wishes for no supplements/pacifiers. I thought I was safe not doing that, since Joey roomed in with me the entire time. In the 20 minutes they took him to the nursery one morning, so I could have a shower, they gave him sugar water. I am still angry about that.

We roomed in for the most part. They brought him to the nursery for about 2 hours the first night, but it was kind of like being on a sitcom, you know you just settle back into bed in the dark and there's a knock on the door, he's hungry again, it's really been two hours even though it seems like only 30 seconds!

So I realized that it was much less disruptive to have him right there, I could pick him up and nurse when he whimpered rather than having the nurse come in with him, turn the light on, etc. etc.

Figure out who your "friends" are at the hospital (I had a very nice IBCLC) and figure out who's rolling her eyes at you breastfeeding (that nurse with the sugar water!) -- be firm with them and don't let them sway you when they tell you "how hungry" your baby must be -- if he's producing wet diapers for their chart, he'll be ok. Babies are meant to live on just colostrum for a couple of days.

Don't worry about your nipples just yet. When you're nursing you'll want to make sure that baby gets as much as he can in his mouth, but I wouldn't worry about it being too much just yet. Ask your hospital's LC if there's anything else you need to do to help a tiny newborn with a large nipple. (You will be surprised, once you deliver, how much you don't care that someone's examining your breasts!)

[Katie&Micah]

Robyn..

I was lucky in that our hospital is incredibly pro-breastfeeding. All the staff were really encouraging and helpful. Don't be afraid to tell the nurses if you're having problems. They know lots of tricks that we don't. And I ended up keeping Maddy in the room with me the whole time except for a 1 hour period where they let me take a shower.

I'm sure everything will be great!

[wine_o_girlie]

Robyn (and anyone else with a teeny newborn),

The best piece of advice I got about breastfeeding is this - try to take things one feeding at a time. You will have good feedings and bad feedings. A bad feeding will leave you feeling like this is the end of the world, my baby will never learn how to breastfeed, I am a terrible mother because I can't breastfeed, if my baby doesn't eat well right now he/she will die, etc., etc., etc. Seriously, you will be hormonal and one bad feeding will seem like the.worst.thing.ever. Please, please, please try to take the feedings one at time and not stress for the next feeding. Your baby is not going to be in danger from one bad feeding, now if you are having 3 or 4 bad feedings in a row, then you may have an issue but there is help out there. We're all here rooting you girls on. :)



Marisa, again you rock girl. I will hit 6 months of breastfeeding my little guy on Friday and I AM SO THANKFUL for this thread. Truly, you guys have no idea how much just having this source of help available to me was key for me. :D I am now trying to "pay it forward" with some friends and so far have convinced 1 friend to keep going with breastfeeding when she encountered troubles and another pregnant friend to try breastfeeding.

[RobynScott]

Thanks for the advice!

Pacifier question - should I not allow them to give baby a pacifier at all in the hospital? I know they use soothies but I don't know if I need to absolutely forbid them or what. (I think they say wait until you have a good latch established - but I also know I have seen BFed babies come home using pacifiers.

Thanks!

[Wrighty26]

wine-o-girlie - Awesome advice! I concur :)

Robyn - For the paci - I think it depends on the baby. My DS just wanted to suck and I know I could have given him the paci before we left the hospital. He was already latching on without issues and eating like a champ. However, I waited until he was 11 days old (the hospital didn't even offer -- they are a very pro-breastfeeding hospital). In hindsight, I wish I given it to him earlier to give my nipples some relief. Honestly, I just didn't know at the time though and to me establishing the BFing relationship was more important.

[katmg]

Robyn - For the paci - I think it depends on the baby. My DS just wanted to suck and I know I could have given him the paci before we left the hospital. He was already latching on without issues and eating like a champ. However, I waited until he was 11 days old (the hospital didn't even offer -- they are a very pro-breastfeeding hospital). In hindsight, I wish I given it to him earlier to give my nipples some relief. Honestly, I just didn't know at the time though and to me establishing the BFing relationship was more important.

Ditto that almost exactly. Some people have problems with nipple confusion but we never have. I am so thankful she will take a paci with her intense sucking needs!

[vjel]

vjel -- I believe that's a standard disclaimer put on products that have not been specifically tested on breastfeeding mothers. But the tablets are for DS anyway, and he's clearly not PG or breastfeeding anyone.


LOL, true true...thx Marisa! :)

also, i think i'm gonna bite the bullet and try pumping. i hate pumping and didn't really do it regularly w/ dd. i'm lazy and pumping stresses me out when i don't see what i consider good output. the thought of being hooked up for 20min to only get 1-2oz. is not enticing! however, i would just like more freedom to be out and about by myself w/o worrying about rushing home to feed ds.

so my question is when should i pump? after each nursing session?

tia!

[Marisa]

wine_o_girlie -- great post! It's so true, there's so much going on emotionally and then they expect you to learn how to breastfeed on top of that. And the hormones involved are just soaring one minute, and dipping way down the next. Another good reason to hang in there at least 4-6 weeks, so your body can be back to 'normal' at least a little more before making any big decisions! :)


As for the pacifier, I really wouldn't chance it, that's my own comfort level. True, it's not common for a pacifier to mess with latch irreparably, but it's not a necessary thing for them to have a pacifier, it may mess with them waking for feedings, and what you really want is to have plenty of stimulation at the breast (to help your milk come in) and plenty of chances for baby to actually suck for milk (to keep producing dirty diapers, they'll check the chart in the hospital, as well as to keep from losing too much weight in the first couple of days). Rather than relying on the pacifier to prevent your nipples getting sore, be vigilant about your latch, and recruit DH to help with that too. (When you get a good latch, if the LC is there, tell DH, "Look at this, remember what we did to get here, and help me get here again when I'm loopy from the lack of sleep + hormones." :))


vjel -- you can pump after nursing, you may find you get a little more if you can wait a little while after he's finished. Usually your body has stored up a feeding's worth again within about a half hour. If you know he goes down for a morning nap that's typically an hour, let's say, you can put him down, go shower or chill out for a little while, then pump around 20 minutes later. If he wakes up a half hour after that looking for food you'll be back up to "full" again. Many women find they're a little fuller in the morning; afternoon is typically the worst time (based on your daily hormonal cycle, most women take a dip in the afternoon/evening).

[RobynScott]

Marisa - thanks for the great advice! (thanks everyone else too) We'll be off shortly and I really appreciate the help :)

Thanks!

[Marisa]

Good luck Robyn! :)

[steelcitymama]

wine-o-girlie~being a first time mom, i think your advice is so great. i know that when DD was about 2 wks old, i started really stressing about everything--was she latched on perfectly? was my nipple sore? did she eat for long enough? once i got more into a groove and relaxed and stopped being anxious about the next feeding or flipping when we had one that wasn't so great, things got a lot easier!

vjel--great question re: when to pump. i was planning on asking that myself. thanks for the helpful response, marisa!

so i have a random question...am i the only one for whom nursing without a pillow (say for example, in public) seems impossible??? DD will be 4 wks tomorrow and is probably about 9 ish lbs now, but try as i might, i can't nurse her properly without pillows....i just can't get her close enough to my chest. i'd like to be able to nurse her when we're out & about, but i just don't know how to do it without all of my props! any suggestions beyond lugging 'my brest friend' everywhere??? i always use the football hold with her, it seems to work best for us, esp b/c i have big boobs.

one last question---i've noticed DD will occasionally choke near the beginning of a feeding. does that mean my letdown is too strong for her? it doesn't happen all the time, but often enough that i feel bad b/c i know it must be uncomfortable for her and scary (and it's sure scary for me too!). should i pump before feeding her every time???? i really hate the pump but will certainly do it if that's what's best.

good luck, robyn!

[steelcitymama]

oh--another Q re: the pumping. so if i feed DD using one breast at a time and i want to pump approx 30 min later as marisa suggested, do i use the same breast i fed her on or the opposite one? or doesn't it matter?

[Marisa]

If you're pumping the same breast that you nursed on, the opposite side will probably feel a little left out -- lol, I'm kidding -- I mean engorged. (Sorry, I'm in a silly mood. :)) It'd be fine to do that, but you'll probably find that you'll feel better and more balanced if you pump on the other side. It's up to you and your comfort level.

Do you find that DD chokes more when she's in one position or another? It may be that certain positions lead to a faster letdown, so you'll want to experiment a bit and see -- and try not to lean into her as you're feeding. Not only will it save your back, but it will slow down the letdown if you try to sit up a little straighter and bring the baby to you, rather that dropping your breast down to her, if that makes sense.

As for nursing without pillows -- no, it took me quite a while to be comfortable doing that. My son was much bigger before I felt like I didn't have to prop him up with something! I remember going to one of those "mommy movies" when he was around six weeks old, and it was great -- I had him in the pouch sling, and then I was toting this enormous vinyl beach bag with the boppy and all my snacks and stuff! I must've looked a sight, but I still had less stuff than the moms schlepping the strollers and all. It was actually very comfy to settle into the theater seat with the boppy (I highly suggest it, if any moms with tiny babies have the mommy movies nearby!).

[melg]

I have another plugged duct...
i suffered from mastitis in my left breast 3 weeks ago, and then while on antibiotics got a plugged duct in my right breast. I was terribly engorged for a bit, then it was relieved in 36/48 hours but still hard and not drained for another few days. Finally relieved 2 weeks ago. I had basically cut off all pumping. I was pumping to build up a freezer stash...

Now...same spot in my right breasdt is plugged, and it's strange since it's the top of my breast. Wouldn't you think this would drain the best?! That spot is getting engorged and I can't relieve it. I am hoping maybe an overnight feeding tonight will do the trick.

Several questions:
1 anyone have experience with lecithin?
2 suggestions for draining?
3 do you think this is caused by pumping or a coincidence? I just started pumping a little in the morning after the first feeding and a little at night before bed and this happened... If so, what is the best strategy to pump and get reserves without getting plugged ducts
4 is it possible that my left breast is not producing milk where I had the mastitis? I think I noticed today when I got really full (due to trying to nurse more on the right to unplug) that the area that had the infection did not get full...
5. Books say to try all different positions, and use at least 2 a day. Do people really do this? DS will not do football hold, and seriously how often do I get to lie down to nurse side-lying?! We always end up doing cross cradle or cradle (in my mind the same... I usually switch arms once he latches in cross cradle)

I do love bfing and hope to do it for a long time. Also even beyond that I really want to have enough milk stored and continuing to express so that I will not have to supplement at all for at least a year.

Thaks!!

[Ade]

Thanks for the words of resurance Whitlockan, babylove and boilermaker. I know DS has intolerances, not true allergies, but that allergist's response really made me feel like it might all just be in my head. The good (and bad) news is that DS did respond to a challange diet, just in a negative way, confirm that he still cannot handle dairy, nuts, soy and peanuts. We have DS's 9 month appt coming up soon, so I'll talk with the ped and get her opinion. I think my only choice is to just continue do the elimination diet or get him on Neocate formula.

I would really like to keep BFing to at least the 1 year mark, but I have to say it is getting tough. It feels like I can't eat anything (soy is in everything!), especially when I eat out. And, DS's still waking often at night, making me think that there might be some other intolerance that I have yet to discover. Ugh, I wish this wasn't so hard!

[Lisa]

I have 2questions.
BFing is going pretty good with my 5 day old but he always seems to fall asleep while nursing and I cant get him back up. He then wakes up a hour or so later screaming to eat. Any ideas how to keep him up? I've tried wet wipes, diaper changes, tickling him but nothing really seems to work. Plus we seem to have days and nights.
Oh he loves to suck its hes comfort but he wants to do this ever hour or so during the night. what to do? Thanks

[jenjen0713]

Lisa - The only thing I found to keep my newborn awake during a feeding was to get a cold washcloth and each time he would fall asleep, I would put the washcloth on him to wake him up. The coldness seemed to startle him just enough to wake up and continue eating.

[steelcitymama]

thank you so much for the great response, marisa. the info re: pumping is helpful and i'm glad to know i'm not the only one who can't breastfeed with a little one without all their gear!

lisa~i found a magic spot behind my DD's ear that seems to get her going again. maybe try rubbing different parts on his body to see if he responds to any of them? i like jenjen's idea too--i bet that would work well.

[ausi2b]

Steelcity - another tricks I've seen other BFing mamas do while BFing in public is to use their diaper bag as a prop pillow under their child. I could never get the hang of using a pillow while BFing (I had a c/s and it rubbed too much on my incision) but this seems to work well for a lot of people.

[myshel]

SCMama: My DD is almost 3 months old (wow! I can't believe I made this long!), and I almost always feed her with some sort of pillow. When we travel, I take my second Boppy in the car and when we stop, I use that to nurse her. Obviously, I can't take it everywhere, so I have used my diaper bag in a pinch (in the car, dressing rooms, etc). It's not the greatest, but it works pretty well.

melg: I was getting plugged ducts frequently and started taking lecithin to help out. I really do think it helped. I never feed DD in a different position. She's addicted to the cross cradle. When I feel a plugged duct coming on, I take a lot of hot showers and really massage the area well. I have managed to fight off all plugged ducts this way.

[steelcitymama]

ausi2b & myshel~thanks so much for the great tip! i would have never thought of using my diaper bag. i've been totally hooked on the 'my brest friend' pillow, which is gigantic. i used a boppy this morning and it worked just fine and is somewhat smaller, so i'm going to try my outings today using it. i'll have to give my diaper bag a whirl, too. i'm sure i could use that if i had to. thanks again! myshel--congrats on making it to 3 mos!

[tinkerbelljenny]

My son is almost 7 months and he has started to bite me. How do I get him to stop. He doesn't do it all the time but when he gets frustrated then he will do it.

[CarlaB]

Tinkerbelljenny, I've just finished dealing with this. My DS's biting was limited to nursing only, so that is what I refer to here. I found that soon after he started biting, I began to dread nursing. I got very tense everytime he started to get ready to latch and that was when the biting happened, at the beginning of a session. I found that it was critical for me to relax, take a few deep breaths and try not to be tense. With that said, I tried two approaches. First, I would either unlatch him quickly, cover my breast, and sternly say "Do not bite Mom". After trying this for a few days, I was not seeing any difference. :o My second approach was to speak in a soft, low voice and say "Gentle" over and over again. I said it before he latched, used his hands to gently pat me, and while he latched and nursed. He responded much better to this method and stopped biting after 3 sessions of doing this. Also, it was important for us that I not react (way harder than it sounds!!). I kept repeating "gentle" and I think he understood.

[juliemag]

I am finding that the fenugreek isn't helping much with my supply. Any suggestions for what I should try next? I'm thinking of the Mother's Milk Tea - but wanted to get feedback from other people who have used this. Also, can I get this at whole foods?

TIA :)

[katmg]

My second approach was to speak in a soft, low voice and say "Gentle" over and over again. I said it before he latched, used his hands to gently pat me, and while he latched and nursed. He responded much better to this method and stopped biting after 3 sessions of doing this. Also, it was important for us that I not react (way harder than it sounds!!). I kept repeating "gentle" and I think he understood.

DD isn't biting yet but she does pull my hair and necklaces (on the rare occasions I wear jewelry). I do the same thing Carla does telling her, "Gentle" while removing her hands from pulling or scratching, etc. I don't think she entirely gets the concept at this point but it does seem to help some. When my DH has pulled her away quickly from pulling his hair she seems to think it is a game and doesn't stop as readily.

I've also read that if they are biting while nursing that you should pull them into you more to make them open their mouths rather than pull them away which will be more painful you.

[melg]

myshel - thanks. how much lecithin do you take?
I just bought a bottle that is 1200 mg tablets. Also a little taken aback by how large they are!

I'm hoping this will help to unclog the plug that I currently have and not just ward off future ones?! I'm massaging, nursing, drinking water, etc. and it's not coming unplugged!

[myangelsvw]

Hopefully there are still some folks with 4-5 monthers around. I'm wondering how often your babies eat both during the day and at night. Mine are still eating every two hours during the day and their night time feedings still haven't really stretched out that much. We often get one four-hour window, but it's from 6:30-10:30, so it doesn't help me get any more sleep. After that, it's back to 2.5 hours for the rest of night, sometimes less.

Is this normal? I'm totally worn out. I don't enjoy nursing because I'm nodding off during every session. I barely have time to eat and continue to drop weight -- pretty sure I qualify as officially underweight by now. And I'm really tired of having to hand off the babies once they are in good moods because the other one is hungry and screaming. I just don't know how much longer I can keep this up. I'm going to keep nursing them today, but, to be honest, I really thought that after five months I wouldn't still have to be using that kind of thinking to get me through.

[myangelsvw]

juliemag - On the Mother's Milk tea, I got mine at Whole Foods. I don't know if it really helped my supply or not because I don't know that I've ever had an actually issue. But it certainly didn't hurt, which I'm never sure about other teas.

[jenjen0713]

myangelsvw - I don't have twins, but I do have a baby who just turned 5 months. During the day, he pretty much nurses every 3-4 hours. I put him to bed at 7 after nursing him. I wake him up at 10 to do a dreamfeed. Probably 75% of the time, he'll sleep until around 6. I would say, the getting up every 2.5 an hour during the night doesn't sound normal to me. Could your DH maybe try and soothe them and get them back to sleep? My doctor (who is a little out there sometimes) told me at his 4 month WBV that DS wants to eat and I need to sleep...my need is greater than his want. If DS wakes up in the middle of night, DH will go tend to him. Usually, he has rolled over and can't get flipped back over or he has a leg stuck through a crib slate or has a wet diaper and DH can then usually get him back to sleep.

Also, is one baby waking the other baby up? You might check in the twins thread to see if anyone has any suggestions for you.

[catmom]

DD has finally weaned!

We nursed for 28 months! I started working on cutting out the before-bed nursing about 2 or 3 weeks ago. I let her nurse 90 seconds on each side, and then every other night I cut back by 10 seconds. By the time she was down to 30 seconds on one side, she was really not interested anymore. So she has been boob-free for 3 nights now, with no tears, fussing, or complaining at all. So I think she was really ready to be done. Anyway, I'm thrilled we were able to go this long- we had a really terrible start and had to start supplementing at 4.5 months. But it all worked out!

I also wanted to say thanks to Marisa, who has been such a big help to so many nursing moms, and to all the other ladies who helped me out so much during my nursing days. You rock!

[mel7dog]

myangelsvw - At 5 months my DS woke up every 2-3 hours at night. Heck he still wakes 1-2x a night and he's 15m. I think it sounds very normal. One thing you could try would be offering some extra feedings during the day to "tank them up" for the night. I find when DS nurses more during the day he barely wakes at night. Has the night waking every 2 hours been going on for a while? If not, hopefully it's just a phase they are going through.

BTW, you are AWESOME for nursing twins. I can't imagine how tiring that much be.

[isobel]

myangelsvw~ My girls are five months and still nurse every two to three during the day. However, they do go for four to even six hour stretches at night. What is happening at night? Do they nurse furiously when you go into them or do they nurse for a minute or two and fall back asleep?

I totally understand where you are coming from. It is exhausting to nurse twins and sometimes you feel like it is all you do (or at least I feel like that). Whenever I would start to get down about it I would ease off everything else in my life and just park myself in front of the TV with food, water, toys, and the girls and spend a couple of hours just relaxing. Wine helps too. :) I also started pumping every night and would have my husband feed them when I absolutely could not take it anymore.

[steelcitymama]

wrighty26~ you asked if i was allergic to wool and suggested that it might be causing my itchy BBs. i have wool sweaters and and sometimes get a touch itchy, but nothing crazy.

was your reaction to lanolin all over your breasts? my red itchiness is all over my breasts even though i'm obviously only putting the lanolin on my nipples. in fact, i never noticed my nipples being itchy before tonight...normally i just put the lanolin on right after a feeding and maybe i never noticed the itchiness since my nipple was just so stimulated from the feeding? but tonight i put it on randomly and my nipples did feel itchy. they're not red and blotchy though. any insight? also, if i want to put something else on, any suggestions for alternative products?

[Marisa]

I know that Earth Mama Angel Baby makes a nipple cream that uses calendula and cocoa butter. You can also actually express a little breastmilk and let it dry; the antibacterial properties can help soothe and speed up healing.

But do you think it's possible that it's thrush that's bothering you? It doesn't have to be a full-blown infection; if you've just got an imbalance of yeast you may feel just uncomfortable and itchy. You can see if you can swing the balance of 'good' bacteria the other way by taking acidophilus capsules -- when I feel like I need to, I'll take two with each meal, normally I take only 1-2/day. It wouldn't hurt, even if it isn't yeast, and you might get some relief within a day or two.

[steelcitymama]

thanks, marisa! hmm...maybe it IS thrush?? i thought since i wasn't having any breast pain that it wasn't possible. i'll bump up my acidophilus intake. like you, i generally take 1 or 2 a day. i'm also going to cut out the lanolin and pick up some of the earth mama angel baby. thanks for the tip!!

[myangelsvw]

jenjen - Oh, that sounds heavenly. :p Yeah, I agree that they probably don't need to eat every time they are at night, but DH just doesn't seem to be able to get them back down. At least not in a way that they actually stay asleep for any length of time. Not sure what to do about that.

mel7dog - I would totally nurse more during the day if it got us more sleep at night. We had a couple of nights where DS slept six hours, but that was probably a month ago now. Unfortunately, the trend seems to be one of consistently deteriorating night sleep, so if it's a phase, it's probably one that's here to stay for awhile. Unless I get a brainflash on how to improve the situation. Oh, and thanks. On days like today, I don't feel particularly awesome. :o

isobel - When it's three hours, they definitely eat. When it shrinks to an hour and a half or less, they aren't super hungry, but it's the only thing that gets them back to sleep. I'm sure this is largely my own doing because DD is the real issue at night (although by now DS may be starting to get used to eating during the night, too.) But since DD is my skinny twin, I've probably erred on the side of trying to catch her up by feeding her whenever possible. All fine and good, but I think we're all paying the price. At least I know I am. And unfortunately my nursing while watching TV days are over -- DS is way too interested in the moving images. Takes after his dad. :p

[boilermaker]

steelcity, I hope you get it figured out. It took me about a week to find out why my BBs itched and it was not fun.

myangels, I have a 4.5 month old who is still eating a few times a night. She was doing well eating at 7:30, dream feed 10:30, wake to eat around 3, wake up around 6:30. But the past 2 weeks she wakes up around 1 for the first feeding and then is up every 2 hours. Sometimes she is ravenous, sometimes she takes two sips and is back asleep. It is driving me crazy and makes for one tired momma. So i can definitely sympathize with you. I did find in our Feb moms thread, only about half the BF babies are sleeping through the night, so I don't think this is too unusual. If you figure out what works, let me know :)

[katmg]

catmom - Just wanted to say congratulations!

[MrsKinnison]

myangelsvw ~ First I have to tell you that I think you are an amazing mother for nursing twins! DS is 4 months old and eats every 2-3 hours during the day, more often 2-2.5, and occasional even more often. He typically cluster feeds at night. It was something I noticed he started when he started sleeping longer at night, so now I encourage it so he has all he needs to sleep throught the night. He typically goes to bed at 8:45 and sleeps until 5ish, I nurse and change him and he goes back down until 8:30. If he wakes during the night I always offer the paci first. It may have become a habit for them to wake up during the night, so I agree that it would be a good idea to have your DH go in. If they don't know you are there they may be more apt to go back to sleep without needing to eat. Also, could you pump and leave bottles for DH to feed them so you can atleast get a break and some much needed sleep?

[Scooter]

Anyone have any remedies for bleeding nipples? :(

DD has been teething and bit me a few times, so I've got some cuts that have been bleeding. I can't remember back to the early days well enough to remember what you can do for that. Is there anything you can put on to heal it faster? When she nurses it opens the cuts back up again, so it's been a really slow healing process. TIA!!

[AmyE]

myangelsvw - actually, I just posted in the multiples thread on a similar issue. DD is sleeping pretty well - 10 hour stretches, but has been up at night recently. DS, on the other hand, has been waking up every 1.5 to 3 hours lately. They are 7.5 months. I've been nursing him down at night usually, but he was going about 6 hours between feedings just a few weeks ago, if I remember right. (Maybe a month ago? Hard to keep straight.)

I don't know if 1) I've created a really bad habit of nursing him so often at night so that now he won't self-soothe or 2) maybe he's teething. Cant' really go to CIO training, even if I wanted to, 'cause Julia's in the same room.

We gave him some advil before bed to see if that would help - figuring if it were teething, maybe a painkiller would help him sleep. Nope - still up all night long. And he woke his sister up to boot. Tonight I"m putting DH on baby duty, first shift (8pm to 1am) and give him a couple of bottles of EBM to feed Ben. Hopefully Julia will sleep through, if Ben's not loud.

I'm hoping it's just a phase, 'cause I really don't know what I can do, either. Just a sympathy vent, I guess.

CONGRATULATIONS CATMOM!!

[bensgirl1222]

I am planning to nurse my son once he arrives and people have told me that if you nurse, you lose weight faster? Is this true? Also, Once he is about 4 weeks or so, I'm going to start pumping and give him bottles so that my DH can help with feeding him. If you pump, does it help the weight? If so, how? I just dont see the logic but its what I've been told :) Thought you ladies would know.

[lauren f s]

bensgirl: This has never been the case for me with either kid. But I do know several people who swear that they lost massive amounts of weight due to BFing. I think it depends on the person.

[Katie&Micah]

I am planning to nurse my son once he arrives and people have told me that if you nurse, you lose weight faster? Is this true? Also, Once he is about 4 weeks or so, I'm going to start pumping and give him bottles so that my DH can help with feeding him. If you pump, does it help the weight? If so, how? I just dont see the logic but its what I've been told Thought you ladies would know.

I delivered Maddy 10 days ago and have lost 24lbs so far. I started out breastfeeding and then switched to breastfeeding about 1/3 of the time and pumping the other 2/3. I believe I was down only 10lbs when I came home from the hospital.. so the rest has dropped off since then.

[Marisa]

Jess -- BFing, making milk in general, will burn extra calories. When a nursing mother is doing Weight Watchers, she's told to add 10 points to her food intake each day. As long as you're exclusively breastfeeding, you probably want to have about 400-500 more calories per day than you'd normally eat to maintain your weight.

That said, many nursing moms find that the weight drops off very quickly initially, but they might hang onto an extra few pounds (up from their pre-PG weight). This was true for me -- but I never was vigilant about exercising with my infant around. The last few pounds that BFing doesn't take off, you can knock those off with a regular exercise routine and good diet choices. :)

I didn't wean at a year, but the extra 5-10 pounds did come off then anyway -- when my son started walking and I was chasing him around! (I went from a size 10/12 in Nov. to a 6/8 in January, without dieting.)

[mel7dog]

Jess - I was below my pre pregnancy weight by 4m PP, with little besides walking and BFing. Now I still eat like crazy and have maintained my same weight. Before I used to work out all the time and really watch what I eat. Basically the more your body has to work to make milk the more calories you burns naturally.

[Wrighty26]

Jess - I was below my pre pregnancy weight by 4m PP, with little besides walking and BFing. Now I still eat like crazy and have maintained my same weight. Before I used to work out all the time and really watch what I eat. Basically the more your body has to work to make milk the more calories you burns naturally.

Ditto! I was a work-out-aholic before/during my pregnancy and while I actually go to the gym less (I average about 3 days a week -- I'm trying to up it to 4) I weigh less now --and I'm down a size (or two if I shop at ATL :p). I am SO thankful for the "breastfeeding diet.: However, I do think it's different for everyone. For some people it does make them retain those last 5-10lbs. Regardless, the potential weight loss is a good motivator!

[tinkerbelljenny]

that if you nurse, you lose weight faster? Is this true?

Not true for me with either of my sons. I wish!

[bluebunny]

I am planning to nurse my son once he arrives and people have told me that if you nurse, you lose weight faster? Is this true? Also, Once he is about 4 weeks or so, I'm going to start pumping and give him bottles so that my DH can help with feeding him. If you pump, does it help the weight? If so, how? I just dont see the logic but its what I've been told Thought you ladies would know.


It's the making milk part, whether pumping or nursing, that helps with weight loss (supposedly). It might be because you need about 500 extra calories to produce milk.

It was true for me. I was 10 pounds below my pre-pregnancy weight within 8-9 months PP with my son and am about at my pre-pregnancy weight now after having my daughter.

[CarlaB]

I'll caution that some women don't melt away the pounds with breastfeeding. I haven't and I eat a very healthy diet. In fact, I found that when I tried to lose those last few pounds by limiting my intake a little , my milk supply took a serious dive.

[katmg]

I got lucky and lost all of my pregnancy weight by about 2 weeks PP. BFing was the first time in my life that I could actually feel myself needing to eat b/c the calories were being burned so quickly. I'm about 10 lbs under my pre-pregnancy weight now and have been holding steady there since about 2 months PP. I totally credit BFing with the weight loss since I haven't worked out at all. Well, other than lifting a chunky-monkey baby around. :p

[JennW]

I'll caution that some women don't melt away the pounds with breastfeeding. I haven't and I eat a very healthy diet. In fact, I found that when I tried to lose those last few pounds by limiting my intake a little , my milk supply took a serious dive.
Ditto for me. I eat relatively healthy as well. BFing helped me lose some weight (I was back at PP weight by about 6-8 weeks PP), but I still had some weight to lose. I didn't really lose more until I was done BFing, despite dieting, working out, etc.

[ausi2b]

I agree - it depends on the person. I'm way below my pre-pg weight, in fact, I'm below my wedding weight - which is just insane. I'm eating just as much as I did while pregnant, and I never have time to exercise. However, I do have to say - that I'm at my all time low weight (I can't lose anymore!) but even though I should be a skinny-minnie - my body is just NOT the same. I should fit into size 0 or 2, but no way no how. Oh well!

[vjel]

thx again marisa for the pumping advice.

does anyone have tips for getting baby to take a bottle now??? i know its better if someone else gives him a bottle but thats not easy to do during the week when dh is at work.

tia!

[mimieliza]

re: losing weight

I think nursing did help me lose weight quickly - I was back to pre-pregnancy weight by about 4 months pp. And I never worked out and ate like a pig. I was always hungry until DD was about 5-6 months old.

[GA_GAL]

My DD will be 5 weeks tomorrow and I know I was supposed to be nursing her at least 8 times a day. She's started to sleep a lot longer at night though (8 hours two nights ago!) and I wonder if I'm feeding her enough. I wake up in the morning (or during the night) soaked with milk...I've filled the pad and it has soaked part of my shirt. She usually eats about every 3 hours during the day, and some days is only eating 7 times a day. Is that too little? Should I try to feed her even if she isn't giving me hunger cues? I don't want my milk supply to decrease.

[whitlockan]

re: weight loss

My initial loss was not directly related to nursing, mainly the fact I gained 21 total lbs and once I delivered I was only 7 lbs left which most was water weight since it was gone in a matter of days. But the rest of my weight loss has been related to nursing, I am 10 lbs below my pre-preg weight and I eat like mad, if not I find myself feeling extremely sick.

GA GAL as long as your ped is okay with it and/or your DC is gaining fine then it should not be a concern as to how many times per day DC eats. DS slept through the night since day one and our ped said as long as he is gaining weight dont wake him or bother him. Also keep in mind at this point your supply has most likely still not fully regulated and that will take time as well so you may want to sleep with a towel under you, in fact I slept braless and shirtless and just let the mess be made, it was unaviodable but it does make a sticky nasty mess, oh I hated that.

[Marisa]

GA GAL -- it really depends on how well your baby is gaining. Honestly right now you should probably be fine letting her sleep if she's sleeping so well through the night (your supply will adjust for that longer stretch soon if she makes it a habit, and as long as she's getting all her calories from breastmilk still, then your supply won't suffer).

At first I read your post and thought I saw five days old... and I thought "oh no, that's not enough!" -- but at five weeks, she's bigger and more able to take in more milk at each feeding -- it's entirely possible that she's getting enough in only 7 feedings per day. As long as you're offering every time you think she's hungry, not abusing the pacifier and all, it should be fine. :)

[micd]

Hi ladies! Got a few questions here. Has anyone use a nipple shield and successfully weaned from it? Just looking for some inspiration! DD is 5 weeks old and has been on the nipple shield since a few days old. I am seeing the LC weekly (if it weren't for her, I would have given up on BFing a loooong time ago!) and she has given me some tips on weaning. I try to put her on my nipple a few times a day after she has eaten for a bit with the shield and is calm, but she just gets so frustrated sometimes (I was in tears quite a bit the first few days after she was born becasue she would SCREAM when I would try to nurse her because she couldn't latch with my nipples, this is why the LC got us on the NS in the first place). My nipples are just pretty short and we also had kind of a slow start as she was in the NICU for a day and then in the hospital again for jaundice.

Obviously, I've had trouble with my supply from using the shield. I pump all throughout the day and have started taking fenugreek. This has seemed to help but it just seems that my supply is still low. Honestly, I never really felt like my milk came in all crazy a few days after birth; it was a pretty slow process. I never really leak either, is this normal? It seems that so many ladies I know have said they leaked all over the place all the time. Also, I will nurse her for an hour, give her what I pump in a bottle and she will still be hungry!! So then I have given her formula a few times in addition because I am out. Could the nipple shield be inhibiting her from getting enough milk? DH thinks it does because he reasons that it is an added valve that she has to suck the milk through. She will come off my boob with milk all over her face too so I am thinking she is at least getting some milk from nuring, so I don't know what is going on. :confused:

I enjoy nursing and want to do it for at least a year, but it has been so hard.

TIA!!

[Marisa]

micd -- I successfully weaned off the shield at around the two-month mark. We had been using it only since week three, though, so it was about 6 weeks total for my nipples to heal, and then get drawn out a ways so that my DS could latch on without the shield.

Leaking/engorgement is not a good gauge of your milk supply -- I know mamas who have nursed for over a year and never got engorged. Also, the amount you pump doesn't necessarily tell you anything either -- one of my best friends is currently nursing her nearly-1-year-old, he doesn't eat many solids but he's still almost 25 pounds - and she never got more than an oz. at a time when pumping.

I think that many new parents are also unprepared for the fact that a newborn will just be hungry all. the. time. She may not be *actually* hungry, but she's growing so fast that her instinct is to try to eat all the time, if that makes sense. She's doing it to try to up your supply, so when you give her bottles (pumped milk or formula) you're sort of defeating that instinct in a way.

Coming off with milk all over her face is a good sign! Even better, how are her diapers? Does she have several very wet ones each day, and dirty ones every day or every couple of days?

What would happen if you *didn't* offer the bottle after a feeding, but rather allowed her to continue to nurse until she comes off on her own? I know it's an added time commitment, but until she's past the 6-week mark or so it's like one big growth spurt for her, and this would help your supply as well as satisfying her need to suck.

Also, does she take a pacifier? At this point, if she's gaining well and she's still wanting to suck after a long feeding, you can try offering the pacifier; if she's really hungry she'll refuse it, but if she's just looking for comfort it might do the trick.

[steelcitymama]

hi there~marisa your response to micd's question was helpful as i have a newborn too and am looking for all the info i can get! :)

i have a sort of odd question/observation....sometimes when i put DD back on the breast (only one breast per feeding) after burping, my breast feels really soft/squishy and it's harder to get her to latch on properly. i feel like the initial latch when my breasts are a bit fuller & firmer is fine, but sometimes when trying to re-latch on the same breast it's more difficult b/c it's really soft. is this common? any tips?? i find myself doing this a lot recently because as of yesterday, DD seems to be more distracted when nursing---looking around, kicking her legs & flailing arms playfully. at any rate, she sometimes moves around so i have to take her off and put her back on.

[AmyE]

steelcity - I think that's totally normal. She'll learn pretty quickly how to latch on to different "kinds" of boobs; firm and engorged, soft and practically empty, etc. Part of the whole "it's very hard to BF for the first 6-12 weeks!" curve. As to the squirmy-ness: if you haven't already, try nursing her in the same location as much as possible, so there isn't much "new" to look at. Better if you can also dim the lights and keep it quiet. (Or put the same music on all the time. Kinda like "nursing" music, I guess).

[GA_GAL]

whitlockan and Marisa: Thank you for your responses. After only 2 weeks my ped said it was fine to let her go as long as she could at night. She had gained all her birth weight back in less than a week and was up from 7 lbs. 4 oz. to 8 lbs. 8 oz. at her two week apt. She's a good little eater. I just wanted to be sure I shouldn't be feeding her more often during the day.

[Marisa]

GA GAL -- It sounds like she's doing wonderfully! Over a pound in a week... yeah, I'd keep doing what you're doing! ;)

[steelcitymama]

thanks so much, AmyE! i appreciate the response and suggestions.

[twainny]

Just wondering how long should a NB nurse for? DS is 5 days old and he maybe nurses for 5 minutes at a time. Sometimes I can get him to stay latched on for 10 minutes, but rarely. I don't feel that 5 minutes is long enough. Plus, it makes him eat every hour. It also takes me about 10 minutes to get him to get a good latch. I really don't remember BFing hurting so much with DS1. I know part of the latching is that I am scared for him to latch on, cause it hurts so much, but yet, he has a good latch, I guess the LC said that he just sucks way too hard (I am getting over bruised, cracked nipples).

Any advice on how to make this somewhat not painful?

[steelcitymama]

hi, ladies~

twainny, i wish i could help but i'm a novice and am still figuring things out myself!

i have a few more questions (sorry, it seems like i have a million)--

overall BFing is going very well...however, we had a really bad latch 3 or 4 nights ago and then i didn't un-latch her very well and my nipple was totally killing me. it's still sore. is it possible that it's still sore from that experience alone or do you think something about the way i'm feeding her isn't quite right and is making my nipple continue to hurt???

also, for the past day and half or so, DD is making an intermittent clicking noise when nursing. she does it on both sides. i know that that's not good, but i'm not quite sure what it's indicative of or how i can remedy it. also, the clicking is intermixed with many "proper" suck & swallow noises. i'm mainly hearing the appropriate swallows with the occasional click. ???? any thoughts?

BTW, i called this morning to make an appt with an LC, i'm just not sure when i can get in and was hoping for some guidance in the meantime.

thanks in advance for your help!

[Katie&Micah]

twainny
I'm certainly no expert, but the nurses at my hospital told me they like to see at least 10 mins of nursing. But what I'd watch for is to see if he's fussy. If he's not then I would assume he's eating enough.

[melg]

Ok, really weird question...
If I am gassy (can't pinpoint what food triggered it, but I've been eating vegetarian...) does that mean that I should expect DS to be gassy as well?

[micd]

Thanks so much fo the advice Marisa!! She does have several wet and poopy diapers throughout the day. She is also gaining weight well...she gained 8 ounces this past week and the week before she gained 13 ounces!! I go to a breastfeeding support group where they weigh the babies every week and three weeks ago she was not gaining well at all, so that is when the LC had me start on the fenugreek. She also asked me to feed her everything I pump to get her weight up. It definitely worked! I think that is why I still give her the bottles. I have been giving her less bottles the past few days and have just been nursing her mostly to see how it goes. However, at the group today, I weighed her before and after nursing (I nursed for about 30 minutes) and she had only taken about 3/4 of an ounce of milk in. :( I was so bummed. So she is definitely gaining weight because of the bottles, and for some reason is not getting enough milk when she nurses. She still nurses for a long time and even after pulling herself off will want more within a few minutes. The LC thinks it is either my supply or it could possibly be the nipple shield inhibiting, though she is leaning towards my supply still being the issue. She said I may want to consider taking Regulin (has to be prescribed by my doc). I guess it can sometimes cause a slight depressing effect on mood, especially if there is a history (no history for me, but I am definitely having moments of stress with all of this). She said I can always stop it if I am really feeling down from it. So I have to think about it.

DD won't really take a pacifier. She actually had a pacifier before she had the boob...she was in the NICU for just the first day of life and they gave her a paci (without asking me I might add :mad:) before I could even try nursing her.

So I really want to get off this nipple shield. I am definitely having moments of doubt, especially when she cries if I try to put her to my bare boob, but I'm just going to keep trying and praying that it will just click one day!! :)

[goldengbridge]

Micd- Hang in there! My DD was addicted to the shield for 9 weeks! I tried everything to wean her from it but it just took time and patience! Hang in there! She will get it!

[boilermaker]

micd, I haven't gone through anything like you are, but I'm sending you hugs. BF is hard when it goes well, so I can only imagine how hard it is when you have issues. Good luck with everything and I hope that you can continue to work with the LC to get this figured out. By chance (I know nothing about this) are there different shields you could use or anything like that?

[twainny]

So I have bleeding, cracked nipples. Is it okay that DS is sucking the scabs off and ingesting them? I don't think I could bring myself to pick them off my nipples :eek: I have to assume it is okay, but I just wanted to check here. I couldn't find anything about it in two different books that I have on BFing.

TIA!

[vjel]

So I have bleeding, cracked nipples. Is it okay that DS is sucking the scabs off and ingesting them? I don't think I could bring myself to pick them off my nipples :eek: I have to assume it is okay, but I just wanted to check here. I couldn't find anything about it in two different books that I have on BFing.

TIA!

had this problem in the beginning too. my lc said it was fine, won't hurt them.

[vjel]

also, for the past day and half or so, DD is making an intermittent clicking noise when nursing. she does it on both sides. i know that that's not good, but i'm not quite sure what it's indicative of or how i can remedy it. also, the clicking is intermixed with many "proper" suck & swallow noises. i'm mainly hearing the appropriate swallows with the occasional click. ???? any thoughts?

steelcitymama, my ds does this sometimes too. for us i think it's b/c of oversupply. here's a link to kellymom re: clicking

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/clicking-when-nursing.html

[steelcitymama]

vjel~thanks so much for the link! i'm going to check it out right now.

micd~it sounds like you're doing such a great job w/ BFing! and i wholeheartedly agree with boilermaker---BFing is hard work when it's going smoothly, so i'm sure this has been taking an amazing amount of energy and i completely admire you for it. it sounds like your support group is really helpful; that's so nice that you have people to talk to and check in with and observe you & DD.

[Ohana]

Just wondering how long should a NB nurse for? DS is 5 days old and he maybe nurses for 5 minutes at a time. Sometimes I can get him to stay latched on for 10 minutes, but rarely. I don't feel that 5 minutes is long enough.

DD2 has always been like this. From the very beginning, she has only nursed a few minutes per session. She's growing fine, though, so I assume that's just how she is.

[tinkerbelljenny]

Thanks everyone for the biting advice. It has worked so far and he hasn't done it in a while. Another question.....DS is already 7 months old and I haven't given him any solids yet. We tried once and he refused to take any. Is he okay on breastmilk alone? Can I go another month with only BM or should I start to introduce solids soon?

[juliemag]

Hi ladies, I need some advice again - if you dont mind. Since I've returned to work, I've noticed that DS is not that interested in BFing anymore. The reason I say that is... everytime its time to eat and it's not from a bottle, he'll do the following:
- bop off every 10 seconds
- arch his back and pull away
- start fussing

I dont suspect that this is normal? He's 4 months old. I feel like I can barely get 20-30 mins of eating from him. And with all the bopping off and readjusting, it's probably more like 15 mins, if that. (He used to take about 45 mins to eat). I also feel like my supply is dropping because of this. What can I do to encourage DS to enjoy nursing again? Or heck, if he doesnt enjoy it - at least for him to focus and not protest? BFing him has started to become such a frustrating experience... and that makes me so sad! :( Oh, for the record - during his 3:00 am feeding he takes the boob without any protest. I think that's because he's 1/2 asleep.

Any thoughts would be welcome!

[Lisa]

okay ladies please help!
DS is 2 weeks old and I feel like BFing this time isnt working as good. DS latches good but seems to fall asleep even if he hasnt ate in 3 hours. I have try everything to get him up and sometimes I can get him up for a bit but we are right back to sleeping.
I have EBM in a bottle for my mom (who is with me this week) when I run errands and he eats like 3 oz or more but I dont think he is getting that much from me. I know I have it in there but he doesnt seem to get that much off my breast. He wakes up 1.5-hours later screaming to eat. where if he eats fromt he bottle he is fine. He is gaining weight but nothing to get excited about, its just enough. What do I do? He is just getting better from Jaundice and I hope thats why he is like this but I dont know so any help is MUCH appreciated!

[mel7dog]

Lisa - My first thought is that 2w may be a little young for a bottle since he hasn't had the 3w growth spurt yet and may be experiencing some nipple confusion. I believe it would be at this early stage to try and only feed from the breast to be sure your supply is growinf with the baby. AS you may know a pump isn't nearly as effective as a baby.

As for him falling asleep I have heard feeding them in a bright noisy area may help keep them awake. Also undressing the baby down to a diaper so they are not warm coazy and sleepy.

[BethIrish]

Can anyone point me in the direction of an article/webpage/general information about how breastmilk is an okay "main" food for the first year of life?

DH is freaking out because our 8 1/2 month old son is refusing most solids. Up to a few weeks ago he was eating with gusto...but then he got 2 more teeth AND roseola. He's still nursing/taking his bottles at daycare, and seems healthy and happy otherwise. But DH is insisting on shoveling food in his mouth, even if he's crying. It's driving me insane.

TIA for your help ;)

[Katie&Micah]

Lisa...

When we were at the hospital and I couldn't keep Maddy awake for her feedings the nurses stripped her down to her diaper and put a cold washcloth on her head. It pissed her off enough to wake her up.. for about 20 seconds.. but you might have better results.

[JennW]

Lisa We also stripped DS down, used a washcloth, tickled his feet, etc. It would wake him a little. It's normal for them to be sleepy in the beginning but it's tough to feed them!:)

[Lisa]

I guess I just forget how hard to feed them in the beginning. Hopefully he'll cooperate later. Thanks Ladies. Its just so hard at night to get up...I know I'm lazy:rolleyes:
Katie-is maddy better at getting up now?

[Marisa]

Beth -- poor baby! No wonder he's not "himself" right now! For you and for tinkerbelljenny I have my own experience to share. Joey didn't eat much in the way of solids at all until much closer to a year. He had been sensitive to milk and soy as a younger infant, and I was cautious about giving him new things anyway. I believe that his reluctance to try solids was an instinct of sorts, because when I did push it he'd get rashy or gassy. At a year, he was well over 25 pounds, however -- almost entirely on mama's milk. :)

You might find this site from the Netherlands interesting, someone posted it here on CC a year or so ago: http://www.borstvoeding.com/voedselintroductie/vast_voedsel/rapley_guidelines.html
It's about baby-led solids, giving baby access to foods but not pushing the purees and cereal.

More info on refusing solids, from Kellymom: http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/solids/solids-how.html#refuse
More info on baby-led weaning: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby-led_weaning
From Ask Dr. Sears: http://www.askdrsears.com/faq/bf4.asp


Julie -- it sounds like the kind of thing babies do when they're impatient for a letdown. Obviously with the bottle there's no waiting, the milk is right there. You might want to try making every nursing session as "peaceful" as the nighttime one -- go into a dark room, shut the door/curtains, turn on some soft music. He might relax a bit and then give you a minute to relax and have a letdown too. (I'm not a fan of people who say "just relax!" but in this case, being tense before a feeding could inhibit your letdown further. You should try to tell yourself "this will go just fine" and see if that helps.) Bottles should be avoided when at all possible outside of daycare, since he's getting used to the quick flow.


Lisa -- jaundice can definitely be a reason for sleepiness, that's great that he's getting past it! I agree with mel -- like Julie, your baby is starting to learn that the bottles are easier, and he won't have to work as hard as at the breast. Right now is when it's so important to train him to work hard! He can get lazy later, once he has the hang of things! :) Another danger of the bottle is that it sounds like you're giving him quite a bit at each feeding -- 2 oz. is probably sufficient for a newborn -- and he may not be hungry enough to want to give it a full effort when it's time to nurse.
I don't blame you for wanting to get out of the house, but it's really best to avoid the bottles. If you must be away from your baby in the next week or so, can your mom offer the milk in a cup (a small medicine cup, holding it up so baby can lap at it) or a dropper instead?
When you nurse, try to get him on there at 2 hour intervals during the daytime hours, even if he's not actively looking for food. It's great that he's gaining, but the more he gains the more he'll be able to stay awake longer, and then things will get easier and easier. (It sounds a little bit like he's in "energy preservation' mode -- sleeping more so he can get by on less food -- my son did the same thing for about three weeks.)
Get him down to a diaper only when you're nursing -- change him, then feed him skin-to-skin. That experience will often keep the baby interested for longer. If it's cool in your house, you can get him latched on and then tuck a blanket around both of you.

[Katie&Micah]

Katie-is maddy better at getting up now?
Oh yeah.. there's no way that little piglet would ever refuse/sleep through a meal now. In fact she's been wanting to eat every 1 1/2 hours lately instead of the 3 that we were going before. I'm hoping this is just a growth spurt and she'll space it out a little more soon.

[BethIrish]

Thanks Marisa. I have a feeling DH and I are going to have a fight on this one. I just don't think shoveling food in a screaming baby's face is the way to go, kwim? I emailed DH those links, and his response was:

I know, but he was eating very well for a couple of months and recently not so much. I don’t want to make him a big fatty baby, but I want him to be at a higher weight percentile or at least maintain the 50%. I also think that having a fuller stomach will help him sleep longer through the night.

ARGH! My reply was that I refuse to have him force-fed, and that if he was that concerned about his weight HE could call the ped and talk to her about it. The STTN thing - well, I don't disagree - he probably would sleep longer if he had more in his tummy...but I still refuse to shovel solids in, kwim?

[Marisa]

Beth, maybe it'd be a good idea for DH to talk to the ped. It sounds like although he's got *somewhat* of the right idea about percentiles, he's still thinking that being "average" or "above average" is something to strive for. We're not talking about intelligence here, just size -- and someone's got to be in the bottom 10%, someone's got to be in the top 10% -- and neither is really more preferable, at this age for a BFed baby it's all about the genetics. (Are you and DH at least average height/weight, or above average height/weight? Is DH willing to change his own diet to get himself there, if he's not? ;))

[polkadot]

HI girls...

Heres my question...My new baby is 9 days old...he is doing really well with Bfing in my opinion....my question is...when can I start pumping? I want to have a good supply for when I go back to work and my DH would really like to be able to give him a bottle every once in a while...I thought that i should have the Bfing down before I started to pump b/c i thought it might interfere with my supply.

Any thoughts?

[Marisa]

polkadot -- you can start pumping any time you feel you have the time and desire to do so. The 'giving bottles' part is the part where you should ideally wait 3-4 weeks, and that way DS is past his first big growth spurt. At that point you should likely have a well-established supply and BFing should be getting easier.
Ideally if you can, try to pump during the times that DH is giving him the bottle -- often in the evenings after Joey was about a month old, DH would come home from work and offer a bottle around 7 PM or so. I would take 10 minutes and pump for the next day's bottle, and then I was "off" for a blissful 30-40 minutes of "me time" with no infant attached to me. :) This not only made sure I had enough milk on hand for the next bottle, it was telling my body that the baby was still eating at that time, and that I still needed to make milk at that time (just in case we switched up the routine and he started nursing at 7 PM some of the time).

[Katie&Micah]

I think that I may have a strong letdown. DD sometimes seems to choke or gag right after we start nursing. Is there anything I can do about this? I was thinking about maybe pumping a little first and then nursing, but it seems like I may as well just pump the whole thing and give her a bottle.

[polkadot]

thanks marissa....i am about to take out the pump and get aquainted with it...:D

[Marisa]

Katie, have you tried nursing lying down yet? If not, give it a shot -- the gravity will help keep your letdown from overwhelming her as it might when you're coming down to her from above.

If you're not comfortable lying down, try leaning back in your chair as you nurse (bring baby up to you, using pillows, etc., so she's not pulling at your nipple). Again, the slight change in position will mean a slightly slower flow than if you were hunching over her.

I wouldn't really pump first at all, in this situation -- it might tell your body to keep making more milk and that might exacerbate the problem further. If you can keep a cloth diaper or burp rag handy, try to pop her off as soon as she starts gagging, hold up the cloth to catch the milk, and then put her back on.

Many of us have this problem; it should get much better as your supply settles and your hormones settle, within the next few weeks.

[jessmaine]

After dealing with a screaming baby for the past 2 months, I am offically dairy free. We have tried the Zantac and there was no change in his heartburn so now we are trying no dairy. Anyone have success with this? It is so hard. i did not really think about how many things have dairy in them. Any tips on good dairy free food?
Did anyone just scrap the breastfeeding? Did just the soy formula make a difference?
I am at the breaking point with the screaming :)

[jessmaine]

subscribing:)

[LoveBeingAMommy]

Just wanted to pop on and say how much I love this thread and all the advice people are so willing to give, especially Marisa. With DD #1, bfing was difficult. I gave up as soon as I got home from the hospital and just pumped for six months. If I didn't have this board (and a LLL leader in my DD's playgroup), I would have given long ago. I still can't believe I'm bfing twins!

Side note, my DD, who is three, pretends to bf her dolls and pump. It's so cute!

[Katie&Micah]

I think I may have mastitis..

All day yesterday my breasts were really achey, almost bruised feeling. I am leaking like crazy but when I go to pump there isn't much coming out. I'm getting about half of what I normally do. I was hot when I went to bed, but within minutes felt like I was in antartica. Basically I feel like I have the flu AND sore breasts. My temp is 101.8. I know I should go to the dr, but since it's Saturday, what do I do? Go to the urgent care clinic or emergency room? Or just pump/nurse like crazy and take tylenol until Monday?

[whitlockan]

call your OB on your after hours line, you can pretty much describe it and they will know 100% and can call in a scripts for you. Mine came after hours and thats what I did...per these ladies and it worked. I had my script within 10 min. Oh and NURSE NURSE NURSE. Find your clog and remember warm showers then nursing will help with a letdown and message it.......but I dont know how bad you have it, it might take a few days to feel good......but REST!

[Katie&Micah]

My dr's office's line says to go the emergency room or wait until Monday. There isn't any way for me to get ahold of him on the weekend. It sucks.. but I live in a rural area and I guess that's how they do things here.

I tool tylenol last night and my fever has disappeared. I'm still having the pain, but I can't seem to find a hard spot. I've been massaging the whole thing in hopes that that will help some.

Since there's no hard spot and I don't see any red area I'm wondering if it really is mastitis.. but everything else seems to match..

[melg]

Katie - I had mastitis too, almost at the same time as Whit. We had sort of different experiences though, so I would not rle out mastitis just because you cna't find a hard spot. I didn't have one at first, but it was red and very painful so I knew that was what it was. Do you have redness? It was crazy, the red was the painful part and it was very specific. If you touched on the red I would yelp, but just next to the red was totally normal.
IMO just the fever and pain is telltale enough.

[Marisa]

Katie, I agree with the others, there are a few symptoms that signal mastitis, but they don't all have to be there. Basically if you can manage going to the ER, if DH is around to stay with the baby, you might want to do so, just so you can get an Rx faster and start feeling better. Better safe than sorry -- wouldn't you rather be recovering by Monday rather than having to just start the meds Monday when you may not have as much help around the house?

jess -- I was dairy and soy free for about 8 months, so I know how hard it is! The good news is that it's becoming more and more common to find dairy-free products even in regular supermarkets. I was lucky that Trader Joe's and Whole Foods are not far from here, so I could go once a week or so and stock up on foods that I could eat.

This is a list I copied from Kiwi magazine last year, it should give you an idea of some things to start (again, many of these would be available at Whole Foods, not as many at your local supermarket, but you can check their websites). http://www.funkygiraffe.com/stuff/allergyfreelist.jpg

Eating whole foods in general is helpful -- packaged items can have hidden dairy, so you want to try to eat simply and prepare as much as you can yourself. Meat, chicken, rice, vegetables, fruit. Sorbet can be a great dairy-free dessert (steer clear of chocolate, which can have trace dairy). Instead of cow's milk, I began using rice and almond milks in everything (cereal, tea, etc.) Almond milk makes a great smoothie with bananas in the morning -- freeze 2 bananas in chunks, throw them in the blender and add almond milk (there's also chocolate almond milk!) to cover. You can add a spoonful of flaxseed oil to up the Omega 3 fats (DHA, etc).

No, I don't think that switching to soy formula would be better/easier. First, most babies who have a cow's milk protein intolerance are also intolerant of the soy protein, they're very similar and both are tough for baby's stomach to break down. As I said, I had to go soy free too. There'd be no guarantee that your baby would feel better on soy. Since the zantac didn't help, I'm guessing you just have a very sensitive little one. So you'd be looking at the hypoallergenic prescription formula, most likely.
The other downside to using formula is that you'd still be exposing your baby to the potential allergen -- albeit in a more digestible form -- and that may lead to a longer lasting allergy over the course of his life. Plus, of course, you're not getting the benefit of the live cells and antibodies that will boost his developing immune system even further. :)

It's tough, I won't lie to you, but I thought, if I can do this for a year, I can really give my DS a good start, and I want to know that I tried absolutely everything, KWIM? The up side was that I was much better about my diet and was able to lose much of the weight without trying very hard. :)

[RobynScott]

Hi all! Just posting to subscribe and give a big thanks to this thread! I posted a lot of questions before I went in for my induction on 7/16 - boy does that seem like a long time ago now! Our beautiful baby boy (I still can't believe I have a son!) arrived late in the evening on 7/17 and (*knock on wood*) has been exclusively breastfeeding ever since!

I know I will have a lot of questions (already do actually) - but just wanted to say thanks for the wonderful advice given in this thread - it really helped our breastfeeding get off to a good start!

[Marisa]

Robyn, so glad to see you back here! I've been wondering how it went for you! Congratulations on your son! :)

[steelcitymama]

congratulations, robyn!!

katie, so sorry to hear about the possible mastitis, i hope you're on the mend.

[RobynScott]

Thanks Marisa and steelcitymama! So, the questions begin ....

Seth is already back to his birth weight (2 ounces above birth weight at 6 days old, woohoo!) so we don't need to wake him at night to eat - but the ped said to wake him every 3 hours during the day.

1) How long do we need to keep doing this three hour thing and any tips for waking him up? I just tried everything I could think of for his last feeding (cool washcloth, undressed, diaper change) - and we got about 10 minutes on one breast - but I'm sure it was not enough.

2) At night then - we seem to be cluster feeding (I'm guessing that's what it is) between 12 and 2. I'll feed him - he'll seem to fall asleep at the breast (I try rubbing his feet, rubbing his shoulder, burping, undressing, etc.) - but then when I go to put him down - he's awake 5 minutes later. I need to turn this around somehow.

3) A few times today when I have tried to put him to the breast (both when he has given hungry / rooting signals and when I have tried to wake him up) he screams, pulls off and doesn't want to latch on. This happens even if I am not engorged. Any advice? Any idea what is going on?

4) He seems to fall asleep at the breast and not pull off. This has been happening the last few days - previously he stopped nursing and pulled off when he was done. Also, sometimes at night - he'll fall asleep - I'll put him down - he'll scream -nurse for a minute - and then go down - like he needed to be topped off although all other signals were that he was done. I don't want to be a human pacifier (and we have offered the soothie and he will take it on the rare occasion when he just needs to suck to soothe) - but I don't want to deprive him either if he's really looking to eat (if that's the case, I don't know why he's only on for a minute or so though). These 12 am - 2 am (or 1 am - 3 am) feedings are really starting to hurt. Advice?

Sorry for all of the questions - guess they've been storing up for a few days ;) All help and advice much appreciated!

Thanks!

ETA - Katie - I hope you get some answers and some relief asap!

-Robyn

[Marisa]

Hey Robyn! All good questions. :)

1) You are probably going to want to continue to wake him during the day -- not just for his nourishment, but also to encourage him to get his days and nights straight (days are when we are awake and we eat, nights are when we sleep and don't eat as much). It takes a while for newborns to get onto a new schedule -- as you probably noticed he was doing most of his moving and shaking at night while you were pregnant, so he's got to get used to the whole rhythm of things 'on the outside'.

2) It's common to cluster feed at some point in the evening. Babies also like to wake to eat at night because your milk will be richer overnight than it is during the day. (Neat, huh? :)) Are you comfortable nursing lying down yet? If not, this is a skill you *have* to master. You can get a sleep positioner for $7-8 (even at the supermarket sometimes!) and swaddle him and get all comfy, and then you can doze for that annoying midnight feeding. :) (The positioner will make it difficult for you to roll onto him, and your breastfeeding hormones make you a lighter sleeper, more aware of your baby. Just follow safe cosleeping guidelines (http://www.attachmentparenting.org/cosleepwork.shtml)!)
As I said before, he'll get his days and nights straight, but it'll probably be a few weeks. Best to figure out a 'coping' technique to get you through the long nights until then!

3) Can you change positions when this happens (football hold rather than cradle, or vice versa)? Have you tried swaddling him tightly before you try to nurse? He may feel insecure with his arms/legs out and swaddling might trigger the "calm down" reflex for him so he can settle and nurse.

4) I hate the phrase "human pacifier". No seriously, I mean, what's a pacifier -- a "breast substitute", right? Babies are meant to be at their mothers' breasts, and to imply that having a newborn nurse frequently means that you're a 'human pacifier' is -- well, vaguely offensive. Not you, Robyn -- I hear this phrase a lot from women who don't really 'get it' about breastfeeding. Bottle feeding moms do need pacifiers -- baby can't 'nurse' a bottle the way he's meant to nurse at the breast. You're not a 'human pacifier'. You're the real deal! :)
Now, rant over, LOL -- what you're describing sounds like really normal newborn behavior. First, he's programmed to want to nurse to keep your supply up -- it probably feels like he's been here forever but in reality you're very early in your nursing journey. It's normal for a newborn to be looking to nurse again quickly after finishing a feeding, and there's nothing you're doing wrong to cause it to happen. It's instinct.
Second, keep in mind that he's going from eating "constantly" (with every beat of your heart) to eating, then not eating for a while, then eating again, etc. It takes some babies a couple of weeks to get used to that idea too, and the fact that their stomachs are only the size of their fists doesn't help. As he gets past his first growth spurt (not long now!) he'll give you more of a break - developmentally he'll be ready for a more regular routine, and physically he'll be larger and able to hold more milk.
Until then, do anything you have to do, don't worry about "bad habits", don't worry about bringing him to bed with you (it's not necessarily a lifestyle choice, just a coping mechanism).... If you can manage it I really think that's the best way to cope with the nighttime marathon feeding for right now, until he can grow out of it.

Otherwise, like I said, he sounds like a normal, healthy, thriving boy. Congratulations again! :)

[RobynScott]

Thanks for the advice Marisa! Glad to hear everything seems normal. Re: the human pacifier thing - I hear you - but man, when that happens (and he's not eating so not properly latched) my nips start to hurt and I don't want to start screwing things up!

So, another newbie question - I was going to wake him shortly to eat (at the 3 hour mark) - however, he woke up about 20 mins ago for a diaper change and did 5 mins at the boob - does that count as a feeding or do I still need to wake him at the 3 hour mark?

Re: sleeping in bed - DH would never go for it. I've been nursing him in bed and then putting him back in the bassinet but I think tonight I am going to try and go into his room for a feeding - I seem to do better with the boppy within the confines of my glider rather than unsupported in bed.

re: changing positions - right now we only do football and cross-cradle - changing doesn't really seem to help settle him. I will try swaddling (he hates having his arms swaddled though) - usually I unswaddle him in an attempt to wake him for the feeding.

Another question- He will be 13 days on Monday and I think it's time to start pumping. (at our bfing class, they recommended you start pumping at 10 days but wait until 3 weeks to introduce the bottle) - does this make sense? I saw earlier in the thread that you pumped at the same time DH gave a bottle - but since we won't be introducing a bottle for another week or two - when should I squeeze in a pumping session?

Sorry for all of the questions but thanks again for the advice -it is REALLY helpful and much appreciated!

[Katie&Micah]

Thank you everyone that replied.. I'm feeling sooo much better today. Yesterday I spent the day resting/nursing/pumping. My pain, redness and fever are now gone so I'm guessing the clog is gone. I'm still planning on calling the dr. on Monday morning to see if he wants me on antibiotics.

Robyn..
The side-lying nursing that Marisa suggested is wonderful... especially when you've had a long night.

When I was in the hospital the nurses told me that 10 minutes counts as a feeding and anything less that than doesn't.

You can pump after he nurses.. or pump one side while he nurses on the other (that's a bit tricky and I never mastered that..). I know it's no fun, but you could get up early in the morning before him and pump. I pump twice at night and that's when I get the most milk. But my situation is a little different. than yours since I'm giving her bottles half the time and nursing the other half.

[polkadot]

Bfing was going great and then last night Eli slept from 10:30 pm till 4:30 this morning...my bb was so huge and full that he had a hard time staying latched on and kept fighting it. Was this b/c i was too full and he was having a hard time with all the milk? Also the milk was EVERYWHERE, he was so frustrated...he was only able to nurse consistently for about 7-10 minutes, and he was crying. So, what do I do? This happened at 4 am this morning and at 8:30 this morning

I pumped for 4 mins this morning just to relieve the engorgement and I got about an ounce...

so any advice about how to fix this problem?

[babylove]

polkadot ~ I had that problem when Jake started sleeping for longer stretches. You are correct that the reason why he had trouble latching was b/c you were so engorged. When it happened to me, I pumped for a few minutes before I nursed Jake just long enough to relieve the engorgement so he could latch on. Your breasts will eventually adjust to these longer stretches of sleep without nursing, which is why you probably don't want to pump during the night while he sleeps b/c it will only perpetuate the problem. This was actually how I began to build my freezer stash--just pumping for a few minutes before Jake woke up to relieve the engorgement. Great job Eli on such a long stretch of sleep!!

[Wrighty26]

polkadot - Wow - go Eli on the sleep! I'm no expert, but this often happened while I nursed my DS as a newborn. I think pumping was a good call - especially since you did it for a short time. I also recommend taking a hot compress (warm wash cloth or wet (with water) diaper that has been zapped in the microwave for 30seconds) and expressing your bbs by hand. Even though it may frustrate Eli, keep trying to get him at the breast - even if it means popping him off after 5-10 minutes and burping him. It's frustrating for sure, but it sounds like you have a bit of an oversupply issue. Hang in there mama.

ETA -- I agree with Babylove -- it will all even itself out over time!

[polkadot]

thanks girls...i didnt mention that i am only nursing him on one side at a time each feeding. SHould I keep givign this bb all day or until it feels better instead of the other bb or will that just make it happen on the other side too?


oh ps: I think the only reason he slept that long is b/c he was in our bed, i was cuddling with him about 15 mintues before he should have eaten again and I fell asleep...he was very content in our bed..

thanks girls

[babylove]

polkadot ~ I would definitely alternate sides each feeding rather than give the same breast at every single feeding (ex. 4am left breast, 7am right breast, etc.). If you don't switch, you'll get uncomfortable and risk a plugged duct. I always offered both breasts at each feeding so I didn't have to deal with this issue, but maybe someone else can speak to whether you should be pumping from the breast you don't offer. :confused:

[RobynScott]

polkadot - lucky you on the sleep! Seth was up from 12 - 3 (nursing a lot of the time - falling asleep - and waking up as soon as we put him down) and we couldn't really put him down - and nursing again every hour from 5:30 - 8:30.

Is it possible that the three week growth spurt is starting at 10 - 12 days? (he was one week late if that makes any difference). I just can't imagine this getting worse next week with a growth spurt!

From 12 - 3 - we would nurse (not for too long), he would fall asleep - and then be up (and screaming) when we tried to lie him down. I don't know if it's gas - something I ate - or just normal newborn cluster feeding. HELP!

I can see now why people wind up switching to formula. Not that I am even considering that at this point - definitely not since bf'ing is working overall - but last night was TOUGH!

Thanks for any and all help!

[jessmaine]

Thank you Marisa for the dairy free tips. The dr never said anything about no soy so i am still eating soy. The baby seem less fussy. I now don't know if it is the new dose of Zantac or the no dairy.
Does anyone know if I can eat goat cheese?

[steelcitymama]

polkadot~i had the exact same issues---DD is almost 6 wks old now and around 2 weeks old she started consistently sleeping at least 5 hrs. i was super engorged and she would have a really hard time latching on. like you, i pumped for a few min in order to get her on the breast. that worked well for me and like the others have said, it will regulate itself over time. it took at least 2 weeks for me, i believe. but now i'm pretty ok even if she sleeps for 7 hrs. if she sleeps for that long, i'll still be very full, but not so much so that she can't latch on.

robyn, your questions were really good and i thought marisa's responses were so helpful. i really need to figure out the side-lying position ASAP! i only feed DD once during the night, but it still would be really nice to do it lying down! marisa~just to confirm, when you say the sleep positioner, do you mean the kind that keeps that baby from rolling over??

thanks!

[Koala_Gurl]

Hi ladies!

I went on a trip and had some BM in a cooler bag. Some of it turned a bit slushy...can I refreeze, or do I need to thaw and use right away?

[polkadot]

1st~ thanks for all the advice about the engorgment this morning...I felt waaay better after I pumped and pumping just a few minutes before getting Eli to latch on helped a lot and I didnt even have to do it the rest of the day, he just latched right on....

More questions:

1. Since I was able to get about an ounce this morning pumping for about 4 minutes, ( i think thats pretty good) I was wondering if I should start pumping now to build up my storage supply or is it too early?

2. If i got 1 oz in 4 minutes then Eli only nursing for 10 minutes is ok right? I was concerned that he wasnt getting enough b/c he nurses for such a short period of time...he usually nurses for about 5-6 minutes, burps, then goes back for a few more minutes and then he's done...if either unlatches or stops suckign and falls asleep. Am I right to assume that if he is content then he is getting enough? ( we go back to the ped on Wed for a checkup so he will be weighed then)

3. I know that most books, etc tell you not to intro the bottle until 3 weeks but this weekend DH's cousin is getting married and I really wanted to go to the wedding but we cant take Eli, and I wouldnt want to nurse in public yet anyway, so my question is....Would it kill our nursing relationship to give him two bottles that night?

[lawgirl4]

polkadot, I would definitely pump a little each day if you need to build up a freezer stash - it will also help establish a good supply, especially if baby keeps up the longer stretches of sleep. I have never had a supply issue and I attribute this to my DD's bad sleeping skills in those first 3 months - it was terribly exhausting, but since I was feeding her every 2-3 hrs around the clock (!!!) it really ensured a good supply.

generally, baby will always get more out of you than the pump. at this stage, baby is eating so frequently that he is probably getting enough if he eats and contentedly falls asleep - and of course, getting weighed at the ped will help confirm this. if you do have concerns, though, you can always have a lactation consultant come over - they will weigh baby pre-feed, then have you feed him, and then weigh him again, and that will show you how much he's getting.

2 bottles is a lot at this age. I, personally, wouldn't do it. However, we did start using a pacifier when DD was 5 days old... and she never had any issues with nipple confusion, taking a bottle, going back to the breast - but I don't think there's any way to predict how each baby will react.

[isobel]

Allergies: For those that are having trouble with dairy and other food sensitivities, try eliminating tree nuts. My daughter's gastro dr. feels they are way overlooked in elimination diets. He had me get rid of them and it helped a lot. I actually added dairy back in five months and they were fine so I am wondering if it was tree nuts all along.

[melg]

HI Robyn! So glad to see you here, I remembering being in TTC with you!! Congrats on Seth and BFing!

I've been BFing exclusively for just 2.5 months now...I can tell you it does get easier, and the nights get better. I still am nursing every 3-4 hours around the clock. I remember early on as Robyn said realizing why so many women quit. But that will pass soon! Now I realize how difficult bottles are too! We are trying to give DS a bottle of EBM (expressed breast milk for newbies) a few times a week. They have to be the right temperatre, you have to time it right, you don't want to waste any, and you have to have it on hand! :)

[BrownEyedGirl]

I have to use a nipple shield when nursing (flat nipples, LC said to use it) and I'm wondering if ds gets more nursing with the shield or if I get more out from pumping. I know normal nursing is more efficient than pumping, but what if you use a shield?

BTW...I hate the stupid shield. DS swings his arms around and knocks it off, it falls off, I leak and it slides, ds gets lazy and doesn't want to latch correctly, etc. When I get ready to feed, I tell ds that mommy has to get the evil shield ready. Even though he is only 16 days old, I'm pretty sure he shares my opinion and thinks mommy is pretty funny for calling it names.

[Marisa]

Lots of posts yesterday! :)

Robyn -- if you know that he's going to nap for a little while at some point during the day, that'd be the best time to pump. Though you're always making milk, you might feel like you're 'empty' after a feeding. Your body will be back up to 'full' in about a half hour, so try putting him down, waiting 20-30 minutes, and then pump. Then if he's up again in another 20 minutes or so after you pump, you'll be back to 'full' and ready to nurse again (here's hoping he gives you a longer break than that!)

If you ask me, the first few weeks are like one long growth spurt! In my experience once babies get past the three-week point they start to give mama a bit of a break as far as nursing round the clock. You may see a couple of very laid-back days in there (rest up, the next spurt is somewhere around 6 weeks!)

jess -- I'm glad the dairy-free is making a difference for you! Like I said, cow's milk and soy proteins can be similar so some babies can be sensitive to both; just something to keep in mind I guess! :)

steelcity -- yes, something like this: http://www.target.com/gp/detail.html/601-5757837-0162568?asin=B000CRHR02&AFID=Froogle&LNM=B000CRHR02|The_First_Years_Little_Lamb_Adjusta ble_Sleep_Positioner&nAID=14110944&ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001
I've seen lots of different versions, they were very cheap at TJ Maxx near me last year. I didn't have one with Joey but I will get one for any future baby. Much more secure than rolled up blankets.

KG -- I'd probably thaw the slushy milk and use it -- it tends to get the funk pretty quickly when you freeze and thaw and refreeze.

polka -- You can pump now if you'd like to, I think much of the concern with starting too early is that you can get stressed about pumping and you want to focus your energy on making the BFing work first and foremost. If you find you have the time and it's not affecting your BFing, then go ahead! (See my comment to Robyn above!)
Your pumping output is not a great way to tell what your baby is getting from nursing. That said, it's fairly safe to assume that he's getting at least as much as the pump, so you can hypothesize that it's around 2 oz. in 10 minutes. Which is a great amount for a newborn. Sounds good to me! :)
The wedding is tricky. The bottles, I think you can recover from. Make sure to clear your schedule for the days following and plan to just sit around and nurse the baby, rest, etc. I think you'll be ok with him getting the two bottles. I'm more worried about you, so newly postpartum, being out and having to socialize for a long stretch, honestly. Please be kind to yourself, excuse yourself to take a breather if you have to. It's not that you don't want to be at the wedding, but your hormones are still a little funky, you may find that you're feeling emotional/ill/weird and that's totally ok. :) If you're going to be away from your baby for at least two feedings, you're going to have to find a place to pump at least once while you're gone. Do you have a manual pump? You can sit in the car (I did this at three weddings when my son was small) or maybe find a small room out of the way at the reception. Again, take care of yourself -- letting yourself get engorged is not just uncomfortable, it will leave you open to infection.

BEG -- I used a shield for about 6 weeks too, and I hated it so much. I used to say that (esp. at night) it was like trying to find a giant contact lens, getting it on. I had several of them because I kept dropping them and they'd wind up under the bed, under the couch.... Anyway, I believe that your baby should be getting enough milk with the shield; modern shields do not have the same impact on supply as the older rubber ones did. Your body reacts chemically to your baby nursing and you get a stronger letdown, so I think the choice would be nursing even with the shield, rather than pumping.
Hopefully you'll have the same experience I did -- after those 6 weeks or so with the shield, my nipples were permanently drawn out and Joey was able to latch without it. Hang in there, it won't be too long now. :)

[polkadot]

thanks marissa...I think i am going to forgo the wedding...i guess its just not worth it...

[EmilyZA]

In addition to polkadot's question, I'll have a wedding which I hope ends up being six weeks or so (at least) after our baby arrives (baby isnt' here yet!) Would it be okay to pump for that?

[Marisa]

Emily -- yes, absolutely! Just plan ahead in case you're one of the many women who don't respond right away to the pump, so you'll have plenty of milk on hand. And what I said to polkadot above applies as well -- take care of yourself, find out where you can pump at the event, go easy and rest if you have to, excuse yourself if you have to. Some women feel awesome at 6 weeks postpartum, and some are still sore/emotional/not quite themselves, so it's best to "baby" yourself any way you can. :)

[micd]

goldengbridge and boilermaker thanks so much for the encouraging words and hugs. :)

I am happy to report that I have been able to get DD to nurse without the nipple shield several times in the past few days, and with no crying (from either one of us...haha ;))!! I am a happy momma and just hopeful that she continue to latch without out and maybe be off it completely in the next few weeks!!

[Koala_Gurl]

Lots of posts yesterday! :)

KG -- I'd probably thaw the slushy milk and use it -- it tends to get the funk pretty quickly when you freeze and thaw and refreeze.

Do you mean I should thaw and use it today, or do you think it would be OK for just a few days in the freezer? I threw it all back in the freezer, and since I only use a supplemental bottle maybe once a day, I was wondering if I could just use that milk over the next 5 days. I guess I can just smell it too! :)

[BrownEyedGirl]

Marisa, Thank you for the hope. After reading your post, I thought I'd see if ds would nurse without the shield...he did for a couple of minutes! It was the best feeling yet! Now I am really hopeful that the shield is only temporary.

Flat nipples suck!

[babylove]

Koala_Gurl ~ I'm not Marisa, but I'll try to answer your question. It's not advised to re-freeze already thawed breastmilk. If it has been thawed, you should use it within 24 hours and not re-freeze it. See this (http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/milkstorage.html) from kellymom.com for more info on breastmilk storage.

[Hawaii2SJ]

How concerned should I be???

DD is almost 3mos and is EBF. A few times in her poopy diapers I've seen one or two tiny streaks of blood. They were small and looked more like lint but I know it's not lint. She isn't fussy or gassy but everything I'm finding about blood streaking is due to allergies/ protein allergies. I'm not on any resticted diets and eat all kinds of stuff so I just want to know if I should be calling the DR or not. She seems fine and I only see the tiny red once in a great while.

TIA

[Marisa]

Any chance the blood is from a rash or something like that? Since she's EBF you can pretty much rule out constipation (which could lead to anal fissure/bleeding).

You're right, blood in the stool can indicate a protein allergy or other food allergy. If she's not having any other symptoms then I'm not sure this is something to sound the alarms over, but you may wish to begin keeping a sort of 'food diary', just very basic, nothing too elaborate, but just so you can see if she reacts a few hours after you have a particular food. Do you remember anything in the last 24 hours or so (I'm guessing you saw this again today) that you ate that was different or in a larger quantity than usual? (You can admit to polishing off that half-gallon of ice cream, we won't judge. ;))

[steelcitymama]

yay, micd & brown eyed girl for the progress on getting the babes off the nipple shields!

[isobel]

Okay, almost six months in and I have my first nipple problem. That's not too bad right? :) My right nipple has a blood blister and damn it is painful. Nursing off only one breast is not always an option for me since the girls are often hungry at the same time. Any way to hurry the healing process? Any suggestions on how to dull the pain until it is healed?

[AmyE]

isobel ugh, sounds painful. Sorry, don't have any advice for you.


Did you all hear that Aug 1-7 is World Breastfeeding week? This year's theme is the "power of 1", referring to the importance of colostrum and nursing a baby in the first hour of life. Hits home for me right now because i"m in a country where they consider colostrum to be "dirty milk" and they don't feed it to the baby until the mom's "clean" milk comes in. :eek: The organizers say that one million babies could be saved every year if more moms did this.

[CarlaB]

Ladies, Today is a huge day for us. My baby turns one and we've hit our goal of breastfeeding for a year. It started out as a very bumpy road of no initial latching, fingerfeeding, nipple sheilds, no bottle till 6 weeks, lots of pumping, and returning to work at 6 months. And now, I BF anywhere, no sheild, no shame, but filled with pride. There is simply no way we would have accomplished this without the help and support from this thread, especially Marisa. While we've hit our goal, we'll continue until DS indicates otherwise. Thank you a million times over.

[angelgirl8]

congratulations carlab!

[boilermaker]

Congrats CarlaB!!!!

AmyE, thanks for that info. I was reading this month's issue of Baby Talk and it looks like there is some national legislation here to make NIP legal in all US States, vs the random state laws. Pretty cool if you ask me :)

[melg]

Congrats carlab!

[BrownEyedGirl]

ongrats CarlaB!!!! I love hearing the sucess stories!

[ausi2b]

Congrats Carla dear! :)

[Hawaii2SJ]

Thanks Marisa no rashes & I didnt polish off all that ice cream :p but I did indulge in a huge glass of milk with a few pieces of chocolate cake and have been eating cereal more often too. So I'm thinking it's only when I have too much milk to drink. I am going to try and keep a food diary. So far I haven't seen streaks and I've had a little milk. If it is some sort of protein allergy how long does that last? Am I hurting her by continuing to eat dairy since I don't see those streaks on a regular basis?? Will DD ever be able to enjoy a tall glass of milk and chocolate cake someday ;) j/k

Congrats to CarlaB BFing is so rough in the begining and Yay to your for sticking to it!

[Marisa]

Hawaii -- it does sound like if it's bothering her, it's mild, if that's the only symptom. It's definitely something that they will outgrow with time, most babies before age two, but remember this and go slow introducing her to whole milk in her sippy cup when she's ready, so you can judge any reaction. My brother and I were also allergic as babies -- I would get ear infections, my brother was worse and got rashes from lots of foods, not just dairy -- but we're both actually very un-allergic adults. :)

The less you can expose her now, though, the easier time she'll have getting over it, so if you can cut back on some of those big glasses of milk, substitute soy or rice milk for your cereal, etc. it can only be beneficial in the long run. It's only for a very short time, after all. :)


Carla -- I can't believe it's a year already! Go you!!! :)

[EmilyZA]

It seems that milk is such a common allergy in babies! This makes me nervous b/c I'm a big milk drinker... is it something I should avoid? I have a history of food allergies and my pediatrician already told me to avoid peanut butter (baby isn't here yet, BTW.)

[mkvh]

Ladies, just wanted to let you know that I made it to a year!!! (As of 7/12.)

Due to being pg again, my supply tanked, but I was able to give DD SOME BM every day of her first year! We nursed the last time the morning before her first birthday (we were down to once a day at that point anyway). Weaning was painless for all parties, and while I am sad to have that phase end, I can't wait to do it again with #2. Right now, I'm enjoying the break!

Thanks to everyone for the wonderful advice and support!

[Marisa]

Emily, it's true, I've read recently that as many as 20-30% of babies will have some sort of dairy intolerance in their first and possibly second year. This is a milk protein intolerance (not lactose intolerance -- babies who are truly lactose intolerant typically need a special pre-digested formula, they test for this with the PKU test in the hospital).

Milk proteins are difficult to digest and thus can pass whole or almost whole through mama's milk to the baby. If you know that you have a family history of allergies, then yes, it would be wise to cut back on dairy products as much as possible, especially in the beginning. This intolerance is something that most babies grow out of, some by the end of their first year, most by the end of their second year.

The signs of a milk protein allergy can be confused with colic; I read an article recently about a dr. who is researching "colic" and reflux, and stated that in his practice, most parents who eliminated dairy and soy proteins (soy is similar to dairy, thus all the soy-based formula) found that their babies "colic" symptoms all but subsided. The 20-30% figure came from this article, he stated that in his experience and research that as many as one in three babies had MSPI (milk/soy protein intolerance) or reflux or both. In cases of reflux, MSPI can worsen the symptoms.

Sorry for writing a whole article here myself, it's something that I had first-hand experience with. :) In my case, I eliminated dairy and soy in my diet (replaced it with rice milk/almond milk alternatives when necessary) until my son was 8 months old. At that point I started adding things back slowly, looking for a reaction (Joey would have rashes as well as gas/fussiness). By a year I was eating a regular diet again, and continuing to nurse.


mkvh -- congrats -- especially making it to a year while pregnant as well! I know that can be tough and uncomfortable!

[mkvh]

Thanks Marisa! Your help was invaluable. I feel like a great nursing resource for others thanks to what I learned here.

[EmilyZA]

Thanks Marisa! The pediatrician said I could try milk (I'm a big milk drinker, and told him I've never had a reaction from it) but I don't want to risk it.

[angelgirl8]

i'm late on this (where does the time go?!) but i wanted to come in and say that i've officially been nursing my twins for 18 months (oops, almost 19 now!)...let's just call it 3 years, shall we?! :)

it's been hard and wonderful all at the same time. they're starting to wean now and i've definitely shed a few tears. you guys have been invaluable (especially you, marisa!)

[JennW]

Congrats MKVH!:)

Congrats to you, too, angelgirl8. Nursing twins for 18 months! You are Superwoman!

[boilermaker]

Congrats to MKVH and angelgirl!

I also noticed that isobel's question about nipple pain got missed in all our congratulatory excitement :) I don't have much advice to offer you other than the fact that when I first started BF, DD had a bad latch. To sooth my nipples, I used soothie gel pads that I had placed in the fridge (rotated between 2 sets).

[lil_nance]

angelgirl8 Twins for 18mo is absolutely amazing. Congrats.

Don't know if these sites have been mentioned before but I just heard about them today. They have a wide variety of nursing bras, etc.
http://www.birthandbabyorders.com/index.php?c=35
http://store.breastchester.com/index.html

[mkvh]

Go angelgirl!! That's fantastic!

[whitlockan]

18 months......you go girl!! I really admire you and 10 times more since you did it with twins!! I'm going for 14-16 so this is so much insperation.

emily my DS was milk protien allergic showed up at 2 weeks old, 4 months the ped told us to give it a try again because its something we would have to eventually do. And low and behold he is over it, (he reacted with screaming/fusiness/reflux and a nasty rash) so nice. But I have to take it slow and cannot just gorge, can I say its hard on my system now. I say eat it and then if it bothers DC then certainly take it out to see if it would help, but I certainly wouldnt just oust it before you even know ecsp since a nursing/pregnant women calcium is extremely important.

My biggest milestone, 4 months dairy free and I can finally live a normal life **as of now at least** I'm still identifying milk that contains dairy from here on out just in case, but this has taken so much stress out of EBF.

nipple soreness this finally has got me, DS just turned 4 months and I finally have sore nipples I'm taking good care of them and making sure I dont wear anything to rub them for now and they seem to be healing well. Also had to reduce the suction I used to help expidiate the process.

[Toonces]

NYC Public Hospitals Eliminate Baby Formula Giveaways, Ban Promo Materials in Labor Units to Encourage Breastfeeding:

The New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation (HHC) today announced that its 11 public hospitals will exclude free baby formula samples from gift bags to new mothers, will ban formula promotion materials from labor and delivery units and will encourage initiation of breastfeeding in the baby’s first hour as part of a campaign to increase exclusive breastfeeding and improve infant health.

Press release here (http://www.nyc.gov/html/hhc/html/pressroom/press-release-20070731.shtml).

[Hawaii2SJ]

Just wanted to stop in and say Marisa you are so GREAT and provide so much info. How do you ever find the time?? You've actually helped me out with both my kids and addressed lots of issues for me. I hardly post in here but just wanted to say what a great resource you've been as well as the other posters who share their experiences. :)

[katmg]

I think that's pretty cool for NYC to do that. My hospital sent me home with formula so that I could get the free bag. :rolleyes: I should have told them to keep the darn thing.

[Katie&Micah]

That is neat.. My hospital gave me the special bag for breastfeeding moms.. but it still included formula. They just threw in some bm storage bottles too. :rolleyes:

[wine_o_girlie]

Hey guys, I just wanted to say that this thread really makes me smile - I feel like it's such a supportive thread and I think that is so important for breastfeeding. :)

I don't have nearly as impressive a milestone to post about as many others, but I did hit 6 months of breastfeeding on 7/20 and I am super proud of myself. I hope to keep going for a long while and am not sure when I plan to stop. I love breastfeeding now because it's really the only time my little guy will sit still and cuddle with me. :)

[boilermaker]

wine-o, that is excellent. You hsould be proud of 6 months!

I love that more hospitals and public in general is becoming more pro-BF. I have 7 pg friends right now and all of them are planning to BF, which I think is pretty cool. And the other day, I actually had to wait for a mom to finish using one of the private pumping rooms at work so I could get my turn in..and I heard that my company is going to expand it's mother's area because the demand is currently exceeding the capacity.

[katnbug]

My DD is now biting me while bf...what to do??

Hi- I haven't posted on here before, but now I need any help/suggestions/ideas you may have!

DD is 9 1/2 months and just got a bunch of top teeth in at once. She now bites me pretty much every time I bf her. Instinctively, I react, and she thinks it's funny and giggles.... then she latches on and does it again. It's not just an annoying 'nip', it's extremely painful. I end up stopping the feed and giving her a bottle. I am only a p/t bf-er at this point - she gets ff 2x a day, but I'm thinking I may have to stop bfing soon because of the PAIN! I don't pump at this point... I suppose that is an option. I have a DS who is almost 3 and I don't find a lot of time to myself.

Anyone else have this problem? Is there a way to stop it so I can continue bfing???

[jennylou]

kat - this was a very short phase for DD. Like your DD she thought it was funny when I reacted. So, I had to do everything in my power not to react. In addition, the only thing that worked was when she bit to push her into my breast. It sounded kind of cruel, but it worked. She did that a few times and after a few times of being pushed into the breast (and then putting her down on the ground and telling her "no, that hurts mommy" she got the hint). Now, if I could only have the same sucess with her biting my arms and legs.

[jennylou]

Okay, almost six months in and I have my first nipple problem. That's not too bad right? :) My right nipple has a blood blister and damn it is painful. Nursing off only one breast is not always an option for me since the girls are often hungry at the same time. Any way to hurry the healing process? Any suggestions on how to dull the pain until it is healed?

I used those refrigerator soothie gel type pads when N bit me so hard I had an open sore. They worked great for soothing my sore nipple!

isobel ugh, sounds painful. Sorry, don't have any advice for you.


Did you all hear that Aug 1-7 is World Breastfeeding week? This year's theme is the "power of 1", referring to the importance of colostrum and nursing a baby in the first hour of life. Hits home for me right now because i"m in a country where they consider colostrum to be "dirty milk" and they don't feed it to the baby until the mom's "clean" milk comes in. :eek: The organizers say that one million babies could be saved every year if more moms did this.

Here in Cleveland, next Monday is "World Breastfeeding Day" at the Cleveland Zoo. If you're in the Cleveland area and can make it - do! Those living in Cuyahoga County get in free on Mondays, and children under 2 are free too. A cheap, fun day!

[Ohana]

kat I'm going through this with DD as well. I try my best not to react (because I reacted with DD1 and scared her so badly she went on a nursing strike for 4 days) and just unlatch DD and put milkies away. I usually have to repeat a few times over the course of a few days, and she gets the hint (we already went 1 round when she got her bottom teeth).

I think it's great that NYC hospitals are no longer giving out formula! The hospital where I delivered both of my girls is designated baby friendly (http://www.babyfriendlyusa.org/), and they are the same way. Those formula companies are wily, though. Since they can't hand out samples at the hospitals, they give the samples and bags to the OB's to give to patients. I just had my OB take the samples out (because I still wanted the other goodies in the bag).

[whitlockan]

Okay I cant sit back and listen to this anymroe without giving my credit where its due....

I just want to say this thread as well as the MWP thread is a great resource. I really love to hear everyones experiences/problems because through open communication you are truely providing the best source of support. I honestly would not have made it this far without this place. My mastitis, I came in at 10PM one night and got answers and reassurance within seconds. If I would have not had a place to turn or that reassurance I would have probably given up on EBF all together. Its so nice to know your not alone, that someone else has had the same problem or experience and that it is managable and you will get through it so no need to just throw in the towel just yet. There are days I turn to my husband - primarly when he has friends that want my info to call for support since not many women BF much longer after leaving the hospital - and explain to him why I am so thankful I found you ladies, because I probably would have done the same as well. You all are truely the reason my DS is exclusivly BF and my insperation and motivation to make it to 16 months without being laughed at or feel as if its unattainable. When I share my goal with those BF mothers I work with they think I'm crazy they are pushing it to make it to a year. In fact now they all turn to me for tips etc.

All in all knowledge is power......... THANK YOU ALL!!!

[boilermaker]

Oh Jenny, I wish I could make it. But this working full time thing really screws with my schedule :( I hope you have a great day!

As for the formula samples, it really didin't bother me to get them because I can just donate them to people who actually need them. But I was not at all on the fence about BF. I can see how it would be a major deterrent to people who are not so educated about and determined to BF.

[Toonces]

Kat ~ Try pushing her into your breast when she bites. I know instinctually you want to pull back, but if you push her in you'll block her nose and she'll open her mouth. Then you can try putting her on the floor and firmly saying "no bite", then pick her up and try again. I went thru that for 2 weeks when C was 12 mos old. It's usually just a phase. i hope it passes for you soon!

[jennylou]

I too donated the samples, and still do when I get them in the mail (they even sent toddler formula!).

[whitlockan]

where do you donate them?

I have a TON of cans that I keep getting in the mail and what I brought home from the hospital that is just sitting my cabinet because I hate to toss it when someone else could be using it.

[katmg]

I plan to take them to our local women's shelter. They take in women and children and I know they always have a need for formula. I haven't done it yet b/c I'm scared that my supply will tank and I'll need to supplement.(although at 7 months now, I'm not too stressed about that!) I think I have 4 or 5 cans and a bottle of ready to feed. Ridiculous!

[RobynScott]

Another question - sorry I just keep coming in with questions (as you all know - computer time is very limited at this stage)

I am waking my DS every 3 hours to eat during the day (if he doesn't wake on his own) - however, sometimes he will want to eat again 45 mins - an hour after eating off the first breast (I try to offer both each time but sometimes he is asleep after the first).

Do I count the second breast as part of the prior feeding - so wake him 2 hours from the time he started eating again - or is it a separate feeding and the 3 hour clock started over?

I'm not sure if it's a big deal - but we are really working on the daytime eating so we can (hopefully!) get some sleep at night. I find that he eats much better when he wakes on his own to eat versus me waking him - when I wake him, we seem to eat a lot more often / eat less than when he wakes on his own, so I'd like to let him go longer if possible, but I don't want to screw things up.

Also, yesterday I was engorged - today I'm not. I hope it's just my supply regulating and not diminishing - I wasn't great on water during the day yesterday so trying to be better today.

Thanks for all the help and advice! And ditto whit - I cannot even begin to express how much this thread has helped me! I don't really know anyone who exclusively BFed and without the help of this thread (especially all the advice I got even before he was born) - I don't know if I would be able to do it (or would have even tried as hard as I am)

Thanks!

[katnbug]

Thanks for your suggestions regarding biting. I tried pushing DD into my breast when she bit me. I think it freaked her out a little, but she let go... then latched on and did it again! So I put her on the floor and said "no biting" she cried until I picked her up again.. a minute later I tried again and she bit me again. That was the end of that feeding! I know it will take time, but I'm going to try and stick to it and hope she gets over this.

[mel7dog]

Biting - Whenever DS bit me is was either because he was getting new teeth or was done eating and playing around. When I baby is latched on and eating, they shouldn't be able to bite. If she's teething I would give her something to chew on and if she is biting because she is bored, I would end nursing time for the session

[suzfuzsunflower]

Question: Just thinking ahead for the future....and baby #2.... I'd like to breastfeed at least a year, and longer if possible. Anyway, is it safe to breastfeed while taking fertility medications such as clomid or injectible fertility drugs. Thank you so much. :)

[Marisa]

suz -- in general, using clomid, FSH, other fertility meds would be less than ideal when you're still exclusively BFing. It's not definitively proven, but it's believed that it may cause suppressed lactation - lower milk supply - at least in some women. If you are planning to BF till a year, it would be best to try to time any fertility treatments for when your DS is starting to eat more solids meals, somewhere around 10-12 months maybe. After that point, if your production does drop it will be an appropriate time to try out cow's milk anyway, and you may get away with not having to supplement with formula.

[suzfuzsunflower]

Marisa - We would be waiting until DS is at least 10-12 months old. So the medicine is not transferred through breastmilk? It wouldn't harm DS?

[Marisa]

For Clomid, transfer is "unreported" -- the data is not available. For injectible FSH there would likely not be transfer into the milk, and it would not really be orally bioavailable anyway. Those are the two I looked up off the top of my head, but I'll be glad to look up others if you like. :)

[jennylou]

Question: Just thinking ahead for the future....and baby #2.... I'd like to breastfeed at least a year, and longer if possible. Anyway, is it safe to breastfeed while taking fertility medications such as clomid or injectible fertility drugs. Thank you so much. :)

There's a thread on this somewhere. Scooter and myself were discussing this....I forget where it was. Anyways, I believe it was Dr Hale who said that it's generally not advised.

Most REs will want you to have weaned for at least three months before starting a med cycle.

In researching, I believe that clomid was actually a bigger no for bfing than some injectibles.

[Delaney21]

Does anyone else experience crazy engorgement right around O time? Its nice that I have a built in fertility predictor!

[bensgirl1222]

Does anyone BF and pump? I plan to BF as much as possible but would like DH to feed the baby and plan to pump as well. Especially since I have a few things coming up that I cant take the baby too and when I go back to work (part-time).

My question is...when do you pump and BF? I mean, if you empty your breast after a feeding and you feed every 2 hours (lets says), when do you pump?

I havent had the baby yet (3 days late!) but would like some insighton when to do this or how exactly would be the best way. I have a Medela Pump in Style Advanced so it shouldn;t take me that long to pump.

[Asha]

what type of container do you use to store the pumped milk?

[bensgirl1222]

I will use the Medela storage bags.

Well, thats what I have now unless they start to leak or something.

eta-- And I will freeze the milk.

[Marisa]

Jess -- for the first week or two, relax and get some rest, recuperate from the birth. Don't stress about when to pump until you feel like you're "yourself" again a little. That's the best advice I can give you!

Once you feel up to it, you can try pumping in the mornings, about a half hour after you've nursed your baby. Your body is constantly making more milk so you're never truly "empty", but you'll find that you get back to "full" again roughly a half hour after a feeding ends. If you get into a routine where you know your baby usually naps for an hour, that would work out perfectly -- nurse your baby to sleep, chill out and take a shower, etc. for a half hour, then pump. Once you're done, if your baby wakes and needs to nurse again in 30 minutes you'll have plenty of milk again.

I hear that many moms find they have a good amount of milk when they pump in the mornings, so give that a try. You might also like a routine like the one I got into once my son was about a month old. My DH would come home from work and offer my son a bottle, and I would pump at that time, not only to let my body know that the baby was eating and I still needed to be making milk at that time, but also to get the bottle for the next evening. I was making a lot of milk in the beginning, so I would double-pump and get enough for the next night's bottle as well as to put a couple of 2 oz. bags in the freezer for a stash. (Freezing in 2 oz. increments is ideal for the first few weeks of bottles, since that's a good size for a newborn's bottle, and you can always thaw a second 2 oz. if you need to. If you freeze in 4 oz. increments and baby only takes 2 oz., you will have to dump that extra 2 oz. within a couple of hours and dumping that milk is so depressing!)

I would recommend waiting until after the 3-week growth spurt to start offering bottles. The first few weeks are crucial for your body to start recognizing your baby's demand, as well as for your baby to learn to latch. Offering bottles can screw with the supply/demand aspect of BFing, as well as making baby's latch lazy and possibly painful for you.

[whitlockan]

Ditto what marisa said. You will need to rest up and let your supply get in tune with baby first.....

A few other tips:

1) forget the medela bags, they are great as back up bags in your pump bag but a waste of money, too small and when you freeze the one seal busts. Go out and invest in some double sealed bags. I started out with the medela bags and after 3 bags of the seals busting with only 2 oz in them I was fed up!

2) I started heavy on the pump at 2 months a month before returning to work. I would feed DS and then immediatly pump afterwards. That little milk left really adds up. In fact thats how every sunday is when I'm trying to get his fresh bottles for Monday. Always try to stay in sync with your DS so I highly suggest getting somewhat of a routine down before pressuring yourself early on to pump.

3) also it may take a while at first, I have a PISA as well and it took a few weeks to finally get my body to respond to the pump very well. Not everyone responds to each pump the same so keep in mind it might take a little practice, dont sweat it. Now it takes me 15 min, 10 min to pump 8 oz and the rest is set up and gather up.

3) freezer stash, always always remember to only take out what you can replace once you get going. Because if not then you are essentially telling your body you dont need that feeding anymore, its confusing if you ask me my DH had to explain the article to me, I'm sort of a blonde at times though too. Remeber to try to get all the air pockets out when freezing.

[bensgirl1222]

Thank you both sooo much for the tips! I will def get some rest first before I start pumping.

[Koala_Gurl]

NYC Public Hospitals Eliminate Baby Formula Giveaways, Ban Promo Materials in Labor Units to Encourage Breastfeeding:

I think this is a good idea, but someone has got to get to some of these nurses.

If it weren't for my 110% dedication to making this work, they may have gotten to me w/ both kids (samples would not have been an issue...and I just took some home for my FF friends.)

With both of my kids, nurses were pushing formula ("your milk isn't in yet," "DS is a bit jaundiced," etc.) With my first, we did give some formula (maybe 1 oz after nursing at 3am), and you better believe that w/ #2, we didn't give any, even when the ped. who signed us out of the hospital said I had to. (I went to my ped the next day, and she just rolled her eyes at this.)

One more month until we hit our one year mark w/ DS!

[polkadot]

I have a question....

DS only nurses for about 6-8 minutes sometimes,is this ok? I am only doing offering one side each time I nurse b/c in the beginning he would fall asleep and he never actually got anything from the 2nd side and I was told that it was better for him to get the last milk from one breast b/c of all the good stuff...He is having wet and dirty diapers just like he is suposed too and he will sleep a good 2 sometimes 3 hours in between feedings and is always content when he is done. SO I guess i just need some reassurance that this is ok.

thanks :o

[Rancid13]

Just wanted to give a heads up on some BFing/pumping related discounts. Babytalk.com/discounts has $5 off the Bebe au Lait nursing cover and $10 off the Playtex Petite Double Electric Pump.

[Delaney21]

I have a question....

DS only nurses for about 6-8 minutes sometimes,is this ok? I am only doing offering one side each time I nurse b/c in the beginning he would fall asleep and he never actually got anything from the 2nd side and I was told that it was better for him to get the last milk from one breast b/c of all the good stuff...He is having wet and dirty diapers just like he is suposed too and he will sleep a good 2 sometimes 3 hours in between feedings and is always content when he is done. SO I guess i just need some reassurance that this is ok.

thanks :o

I had a problem with DS's nursing timeline in the beginning. He only nurses for 3-4 minutes at a time and rarely nurses on more than one side. When I had the issue I was told to watch the baby, not the clock because every baby is different. As long as he is having enough wet diapers, he should be fine.

People question me about it all of the time and they tell me that there is no way he is getting enough to eat in 3 minutes. I just tell them that he's just very efficient and gets down to business when nursing ;)

[polkadot]

good...i am glad that he is not the only baby who does this...I know in my head that he is getting enough, b/c when he nurses i can literally hear him sucking and swallowing and like you said he gets down to business....thanks for the reassurance...
:D

[steelcitymama]

like, polkadot, i think i'm just looking for some reassurance! DD is almost 7 wks old and has started sleeping through the night, from about 830P to 630A. she's eating 8 times a day now since she's sleeping so much. i presume she's just eating more at those feedings to make up for the longer stretches without food. it seems like she's eating for longer periods of time at each feeding and she's happy, etc. i'm sure she's getting enough food, i was just looking for some assurances!

[katmg]

polkadot - Yup, once we got past the first month or so DD would only nurse for about 10 minutes. She's down to about 6 -8 minutes now - and that's nursing on both sides! You've seen pictures of her cheeks though - she's definitely getting plenty to eat! :D

[Asha]

The New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation (HHC) today announced that its 11 public hospitals will exclude free baby formula samples from gift bags to new mothers, will ban formula promotion materials from labor and delivery units and will encourage initiation of breastfeeding in the baby’s first hour as part of a campaign to increase exclusive breastfeeding and improve infant health.
i'm in the city, and i have been impressed with how it seems very pro bf'ing. my ob has always talked with me at the beginning assuming i would bf. the hospital provides a lactation consultant. the childbirth educator is a nurse in the hospital and she clearly stated that nursing is better and gave tips on how to start a successful bf'ing relationship. also, my friend works in a headstart program here that educates mothers to be, and they highly encourage bf'ing and natural childbirth. they even provide doulas to the mothers who want that.

[myshel]

I have a question....

DS only nurses for about 6-8 minutes sometimes,is this ok? I am only doing offering one side each time I nurse b/c in the beginning he would fall asleep and he never actually got anything from the 2nd side and I was told that it was better for him to get the last milk from one breast b/c of all the good stuff...He is having wet and dirty diapers just like he is suposed too and he will sleep a good 2 sometimes 3 hours in between feedings and is always content when he is done. SO I guess i just need some reassurance that this is ok.

thanks :o

DD ate like this in the beginning too. I was a little worried, but the LC reassured me that this was fine.

like, polkadot, i think i'm just looking for some reassurance! DD is almost 7 wks old and has started sleeping through the night, from about 830P to 630A. she's eating 8 times a day now since she's sleeping so much. i presume she's just eating more at those feedings to make up for the longer stretches without food. it seems like she's eating for longer periods of time at each feeding and she's happy, etc. i'm sure she's getting enough food, i was just looking for some assurances!

DD has been doing this too. :p I think it's fine.

[juliemag]

I'm having serious issues today. I'm at work, and usually my monday morning pumping session is very productive. Well, I felt engorged last night and pumped before bed to releive some of it. It didn't work all that well, and I was still engorged this morning. I have several plugged ducts from wearing an ill-fitting bra yesterday. Anyway... when I try to pump, NOTHING comes out - and my boobs feel rock hard, like they are full of marbles! ACK!! It's soooo painful. What can I do while I'm at work to encourage these ducts to free up and let the milk out?! I'm inclined to just pump every hour to see if that works. But, I'd like to get some advice from you guys first. I didn't post this in the pumping thread, b/c it has to do more with my plugged ducts than anything else.

help! :(

[boilermaker]

Julie, that really sucks. Can you get ahold of a hot compress? When I have been REALLY plugged, it takes the heat, massage and a bunch of pumping/feeding to get it flowing again. And you can take some tylenol or motrin to take the edge off if it is really bothering you in that sense.

[Marisa]

Julie - :( I agree with Carrie, a warm compress might help move things along for you. If you're at work you can fashion a makeshift compress by running paper towels under the hot tap, then putting them in a ziploc bag. You might also want to run out at lunch and pick up some lecithin at the supermarket -- take up to 3-4 capsules per day while you're still feeling the plugs (all at once or 1 capsule with each meal) -- then start to wean down to just one per day after a week if you're feeling better.


I think this is a good idea, but someone has got to get to some of these nurses.

I absolutely agree with this and my mom says the same thing. She says that the nurses on her floor really feel like they're doing the new moms a favor by sending them home with samples, including the formula, and often they will get a larger bag and really 'load them up'.

One of my best friends delivered in a NYC hospital last summer, and I was just saying to her last night, I have *never* seen someone with so many nursing challenges. She was given good advice by the LCs on staff, I believe, but had a really hard time getting consistent advice from the rest of the nurses, and since she was there for four days after a c/s she saw a lot more of the nurses than the LCs.

[Delaney21]

I absolutely agree with this and my mom says the same thing. She says that the nurses on her floor really feel like they're doing the new moms a favor by sending them home with samples, including the formula, and often they will get a larger bag and really 'load them up'.


We were told by our nurse that we wouldn't be allowed to leave until we accepted the formula bag! :eek: I kept fighting back and forth with her telling her that I was BFing and didn't need it. She said even BFing moms need formula so I had to take it before I could be released. Finally I gave up and took it, but as soon as she wheeled me out of the hospital I walked over to the trash can, looked back at her and tossed the bag in the trash. Its amazing how much they try to push formula!

[juliemag]

Thanks so much for the advice boilermaker and Marisa... I'm going to RUN to get that Lecithin at lunch! And great idea about the makeshift hot compress... definitely trying that too.

PS... is Lecithin located with the vitamins?

[lauren f s]

You know, I delivered DD at what is supposed to be one of the best hospitals in Dallas for having babies and I was sent home with two huge bags of formula, samples, and coupons. Between having her and DS we moved and that hospital was just too far for us to this time around. I was a little hesitant about delivering DS at the smaller hospital we chose, but they were the most pro-BFing place I'd ever seen. I was given numerous handbooks about BFing, visits from very well-informed nurses and LC's, and not only was formula never mentioned but I was sent home with samples of Lansinoh and nursing pads instead of formula.

Julie: Good luck getting rid of your plugged ducts!

[angelgirl8]

julie...it should be with the vitamins!


nyc hospitals and formula: i also luckily encountered an LC who was helpful and encouraging, but she was only there a few hours a day and i needed much more help than that with my two. some of the nurses encouraged BFing but many of them were in the "you can't breastfeed twins, especially after a c-section" group. we were sent home with a lot of formula, especially for ds who was in the NICU and i promptly gave it all away. i figure it's just easier for the nurses if you don't breastfeed.

[alliannie]

I have a question. For the last week or so probably twice a day or so when we nurse DS gets hysterical. Sometimes it is right at the beginning of nursing so I thought it was just from to much let down. But now it seems to happen in the middle of nursing. He continues to nurse but cries and unlatches and latches back on. Sometimes if we switch sides that calms him down sometimes he calms down on his own. What could this be?

[steelcitymama]

allieannie~i'm definitely no expert as i'm a novice, too---but DD has done this twice and it totally freaked me b/c she's the most mellow kid...i suspected it was gas pains since she hadn't pooped in a day or two and had been farting a lot! :) also, she would un-latch and scream hysterically but when i shifted her to an upright position, she immediately calmed down a bit (but then tried to latch onto my shoulder). this happened a week or two ago and then again just yesterday. i switched her from the cradle to the football hold, which seemed to help a bit. then, a few minutes later she had a HUGE explosive poop that went absolutely everywhere!!

anyway, perhaps it's gas and it's more comfortable for him to lay on one side vs. the other?

[ausi2b]

Question for those of you that pump and freeze - how long can the milk last in the freezer? I don't have a stand alone freezer - just the one that goes with my fridge and I've been lazy and not rotated out my freezer stash. Is it 3 months? 6 months? Sniff and taste? DH says that my frozen stuff tastes gross compared to the fresh, but I have milk in there from March - eek!

[katmg]

houston hospitals - Apparently the hospital that I delivered at is not very BFing friendly. Since I had DD, I've heard of many people who were very discouraged there and ended up not BFing. I had the exact opposite experience. I was very, very adamant about BFing but all the nurses were extremely helpful and encouraging and I didn't have to do/say anything to get that reaction. My labor nurse put DD right to the breast, before even cleaning or swaddling, without me having to ask. I met with an LC both days and had all the nurses telling me how wonderful it was that I was BFing. I have a friend who BF her twins and had the same experience but everyone else that has delivered there had bad experiences. I think part of it has to do with attitude. I went in with the attitude that BFing WOULD work and that I would do my darndest to make sure that happened. Perhaps if I had been uncertain about BFing they might have pushed me to formula feed.

I know my attitude about making BFing work came from this thread and others like it. From learning from Marisa and so many people here I knew the pitfalls to look for and what to believe/not believe about those first days BFing. Yay CC and Marisa!!

[babylove]

ausi2b ~ Check out this link (http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/milkstorage.html)on kellymom.com for breast milk storage info! Generally speaking, in a freezer that is attached to your fridge (which is what I think you mean), it is good for 3-6 mo. You should store the milk at the back of the freezer (not on the shelves in the door) and use the oldest milk first. Frozen EBM definitely tastes and smells different than fresh EBM, so just because it smells or tastes different, doesn't mean its bad!

[melg]

How do you ladies do it?
I really do not want to sleep with DS in our bed...

I keep falling asleep during nighttime feedings. I nurse in our bed sitting up ith a boppy in my lap. I do have a tv, though it's not always on.

I seem to fall asleep so fast! I guess bc I'm so tired, anbd DS doesn't seem to mind but I feel bad.

[mel7dog]

melg - That is totally normal! I fell asleep with DS cradled in one of my arms almost everytime we fed. It actaully was a lifesaver for us because I could get some rest and he could nurse like he needed to. In the beginning I was nervous to fall asleep with DS next to me. But after I realized I woke is he even mved a finger I felt better. Co-sleeping can be a wonderful and safe experience when done correctly.

[Wrighty26]

melg - My DH was really against co-sleeping because he thought that it would lead to him sleeping in the bed forever. I got my way though, and we coslept for the first few months. It made BFing and attending to my DS MUCH easier. My DS is now 13 months and it's impossible to get him to sleep in our bed. You need to do what's easiest and best for you (and a baby cannot form habits when they are that young!).