Expats?

[justHB]

After having traveled to a destination, have any of you - or anyone you know - seriously considered moving to said destination and what steps did you (or didn't you) take to make it a reality?

[ejs]

DH's best friend and his family moved to London last year. It was a little easier for them because DH's friend has a US passport and a UK passport because his parents are British citizens. He did have to jump through some hoops to get his family over there, though.

[kalogrias]

Yes. I'll give you a run-down (sorry, it's a little long) ;)

I've been an expat for most of my life (parents in the State Dept, husband in the military), but in a more targeted way...

1. LONDON

I knew I wanted to live in London when I visited as a 17 year old (wasn't the first time I had been there, but it was the first "conscious" time). I moved towards that goal when I did my Junior Year Abroad there when I was 20, and I made some really good friends. Then, as a senior, I applied to jobs that would take me internationally, but I met then-BF, now-DH...blah blah blah. Anyway, I got a job in London but turned it down to stay with the guy (ugh, sometimes I still can't believe I did that!!! Even though I got the guy!). I'm still working at getting us to London.

How am I doing that? I'm cultivating contacts over there. I've basically raked my business contacts for any contacts they might have there, and I've made a few trips over there (for pleasure) where I've arranged to meet with said contacts. I'm hoping that when our time in Asia is up, I can get a job through one of those contacts. I've found that the face time has helped a lot, and the people I'm talking to know that I'm serious because I've made the effort to come back to London so.many.times. over the past 7 years (about every 9 months). I'm hoping it works out.

2. ASIA

This is less of a "me" thing, but I've wanted to live in Asia every since I visited Singapore and Hong Kong. When DH came up for orders, we took the only reasonable job on the list that was in Asia -- and now we live in Korea. It's not exactly what I envisioned, but I'm really glad to be an expat again!!!

[tlew12778]

Almost all of my friends have done this at some point. Me too obviously.

Me:
I came to Italy to study abroad, met DH, decided to stay. 7.5 years later we got married. No intention to go back to the states right now.

That's it in a nutshell but there is a long and complicated story about visas and job hunting. I can elaborate if you want, but to make a long story short, you need a visa and to get a visa you need a job, but to get a job you need a visa.

FBF in the US:
She also studied abroad in London then lived there. She is not back in the states but her company is based in London so she goes back and forth.

FBF in Milan:
She met her DH online and then in real life in the US. He proposed after only 2 months, they moved to Italy 6 months later and got married here. They live in Milan now. Mainly, they got married to get her a visa.

DH's friend's fiancee:
I have no idea how they met but she is Dutch. I think she was here on study abroad too actually. She finished med school, then moved here permanently to do her medical residency here. Now she works here. Her story is easier bc she is an EU citizen and so her degree is valid here and she does not need a visa.

DH's friend's fiancee #2:
She was a teacher at the American School of (?) in India and an Italian family asked her to repatriate with them back to Italy and teach in their son's school here. She came and while she was here, met her FH.

All my ex-co-workers:
All on expat contracts with their American company that has a subsidiary here. They were hand-picked by my ex-boss and chose to accept an assignment abroad.

[Geranium]

We seriously considered becoming expats. In 2004 DH's company temporarily relocated to Belgium for 6 months. We ultimately decided to turn down a permanent relocation because I really struggled with the adjustment of living in a new country.

When I first arrived, I became involved with the "American Women's Club of Brussels" and they provided a fantastic support network for new expats. The women that help out new arrivals made it clear to me that it takes a good 6-12 months to fully adjust to living outside the U.S.

FWIW, living abroad was always something DH and I planned on doing. Both of us grew up in families that traveled extensively and I really thought I had what it took to raise a family abroad. I loved the travel opportunities the relocation provided but ultimately the language barrier and lifestyle differences drove me back to the U.S. Also, we left with a 6 month old baby and I think trying to adjust as new parents and the new location was just too overwhelming for us.

Something I did not understand but learned through the experience is that living abroad is NOT a vacation. Buying groceries, taking out the trash, doing laundry and all the other mundane parts of living require learning a new process and a new routine when you live in another country. I really had a romantic image of our family sitting in cafes and strolling down historic streets everyday but never imagined how difficult it could be to pay a cable bill or find baby tylenol on a Sunday.

We still consider relocating and it might ultimately become a requirement for DH's career growth. In the meantime, DH's company allows him to commutes back an forth between the European offices and the U.S. We even took a short 6 week location recently to England and although I loved the travel, was ready to get back home.

I would NOT consider relocating unless the company asking for the placement provided for the move of all household belongings, an allowance for housing, a cost of living adjustment calculated into DH's salary, a company car with an allowance for gas, and all that all education expenses be paid for our children. Also, I would not go unless if the company covered expenses for us to travel back to the U.S. at least twice a year.

[emmjay]

DH and I have talked about this quite a bit, especially after spending 2 months in New Zealand. We've also talked about moving to Ireland since I have Irish citizenship and a lot of family there. Those possibilities are pretty theoretical at this point primarily because we need to be settled in one place for a while after having two years "missing" from our careers due to a sabbatical.

Realistically, if we go anywhere in the near future it will be Bangalore, India if DH can manage to get relocated within his company. He has mentioned several times to his boss and his CEO that he would be willing to move there if/when they need a permanent person living there (he works for a software company and they have a ton of clients in Bangalore). If his company does create that position, DH has a pretty good shot at getting it - probably because no one else seems to want to move to India! The other option within his company would be London but I think both of us are more interested in Bangalore. If we moved to London, DH has already said that he would need a huge raise and to be paid in pounds in order to make up for the cost of living. Also DH has taken the Foreign Service exam for the past 2 years and will pass soon (hopefully)!

A good friend of mine lives in Bangkok. He works as an intellectual property attorney for a Thai law firm. He was very focused on moving there after visiting and took the steps of getting an IP-related job in the US and also getting an additional law degree in international law w/ a focus on IP before moving. He visited several times and make lots of contacts beforehand. He was offered the job before he moved there.

[justHB]

Thanks for all the really interesting, thoughtful feedback everyone.

I've always wanted to live abroad, but have never had the opportunity to do so. I wanted to do a semester in college, but because of financial issues, was not able to. Ever since then, it's always been at the back of my mind.

DH and I have been talking about it more a bit recently and are in the process of investigating it. Obviously, there is a lot to investigate, so we've set a tentative 3-5 year timeline for it. DH and I do not have any children, nor are we going to have any children, so I feel like I'd rather try to make a go of this while we're younger, rather than older (as many of the people I know IRL have done). Ultimately, our going depends on many factors, which we're also weighing into our decision.

We're of two minds right now -

1. Move to a country where DH could continue on in his field with his company providing the relocation. This would most likely take us to one of the areas where major US corporations have satellite offices and HQs.

2. Move to a very cheap country and live like bohemians. :p If we went this route, we would obviously need to save up enough $$$ to support ourselves in a move like this because without a whole lot of income, well ... you know what I mean.

My true, ultimate goal is more of a pipe dream, and I understand that, but if we could somehow make it work (which many people seem to do, so I figure it has to be doable, somehow) is to eventually buy a small inn or b&b that we can run, where we can also coordinate weddings for American couples. Anyone who knows me well understands where I'm coming from with this. With the right capital, it's something we could definitely do here in the states, but I'd rather investigate opportunities abroad.

Initial research indicates various countries have very different rules and regulations for "work" and whatnot. For instance, Italy is very strict about this. Mexico and certain countries in Central America? Not so much.

If we were to move to Italy, we have 2 options.
1. Use DHs mother to obtain citizenship (we're investigating whether or not her father and mother gave up Italian citizenship before she was born)
2. Go over on an extended stay Visas (this would require us selling our house and DHs company being bought or going IPO)

I dunno. These are all just a bunch of thoughts. As I said, we're still in the VERY early stages of thinking this through so hearing about all of your experiences is very helpful and I really appreciate it.

[justHB]

FWIW, we have a couple of friends who are scattered around the globe, but I wouldn't so much call them expats as young, single men sowing their wild oats.

[justHB]

emmjay - DH is in software too and has managed an Indian team in Bangalore. He's said a couple of times that his career will ultimately have him traveling there, but I don't know if I'd want to move there. Admittedly, I've never been ... so that is based solely on my lack of knowledge and overwhelming desire to live in either Europe or the beach.

Our friend in Hong Kong absolutely loves it and has switched jobs and moved up the career ladder to ensure that he stays there. The funny thing is, he went to school for psychology and through a series of very fortunate decisions, somehow ended up at very successful IT organizations that work with the Asian stockmarkets. Sometimes it's all about luck and timing, I guess.

[emmjay]

I know this isn't the same and doesn't address your ultimate dream, but as for this:

2. Move to a very cheap country and live like bohemians. :p If we went this route, we would obviously need to save up enough $$$ to support ourselves in a move like this because without a whole lot of income, well ... you know what I mean.
you might not need as much money as you think! DH and I spent 19 months traveling and we went to around 25 countries (including several that weren't cheap in Europe) and we spent maybe $50k. And traveling around is way more expensive than staying in one place. We weren't really roughing it either, at least not as much as many other people we met - we went out to dinner whenever we wanted, had drinks several times a week, bought souvenirs, went on excursions, etc.

You might already know that and I'm not trying to assume you haven't done your research - I just wanted to mention it since lots of people are surprised at how little we spent for such a long time.

ETA - actually I haven't been to India either but after having spent many months in various developing countries and reading about Bangalore and expats there, I think it would be exciting. Plus it would probably be the most valuable in terms of DH's future career, even if he eventually ends up with the State Dept.

[mpc863]

Realistically, if we go anywhere in the near future it will be Bangalore, India if DH can manage to get relocated within his company. He has mentioned several times to his boss and his CEO that he would be willing to move there if/when they need a permanent person living there (he works for a software company and they have a ton of clients in Bangalore). If his company does create that position, DH has a pretty good shot at getting it - probably because no one else seems to want to move to India!

I would love to be an expat in Bangalore! We were just there in March and I could totally see us there for a couple of years.

[ejs]

2. Move to a very cheap country and live like bohemians. :p If we went this route, we would obviously need to save up enough $$$ to support ourselves in a move like this because without a whole lot of income, well ... you know what I mean.
DH's cousin is doing this. She went to South America and makes money selling handmade jewelry. She met a man and they have a child. They live in the jungles and wander from village to village. In these areas, they rent very primitive shelters (two or three walls, thatch or tin roof, no running water, no electricity, etc). She emails her family every so often and they've been to see her. They definitely don't have a lot of money, but they're happy.

[tlew12778]

If we were to move to Italy, we have 2 options.
1. Use DHs mother to obtain citizenship (we're investigating whether or not her father and mother gave up Italian citizenship before she was born)
2. Go over on an extended stay Visas (this would require us selling our house and DHs company being bought or going IPO)
Actually only his grandparents needed to be citizens. A lot of ppl get citizenship this way. What do you mean by extended visa. You need a visa for a reason and to work you need a work visa. But having a work visa here is by no means a guarantee to finding a job. It took me 1.5 years to find my current job and I speak Italian fluently and have an MBA from the top Italian business school.

The wedding planning thing is something I actually seriously considered. It's still in the back of my mind but I actually love my job. There is tons of competition.

You should come check out the international members thread (http://www.constantchatter.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1397824). It has been deadish for a while but I will bump it back up for you.

[justHB]

Actually only his grandparents needed to be citizens. A lot of ppl get citizenship this way. What do you mean by extended visa. You need a visa for a reason and to work you need a work visa. But having a work visa here is by no means a guarantee to finding a job. It took me 1.5 years to find my current job and I speak Italian fluently and have an MBA from the top Italian business school. I read on an expat forum that if they rescinded their citizenship when they came to the US then we could not get citizenship through his ancestral line. Is that not the case? Regarding the "extended stay" visa, I read that there are three options for moving to Italy - dual citizenship, work visa, and an extended stay/retirement visa. Basically, you won't be able to work so you must show that you have the financial capital and health insurance to fund your ... extended stay, essentially ... to the country. A lot of dot-commers and people from the Bay Area - where we live - who have cashed out of the housing market have done this because it's the easiest route if you've got excess cash.

The wedding planning thing is something I actually seriously considered. It's still in the back of my mind but I actually love my job. There is tons of competition. I imagine there is. It's something many of us have considered, I'm sure. What I'm thinking of, regardless of where we end up, is sort of a one-stop shop thing. Since I'm also an amateur photographer (who is pretty good, even if I do say so myself), I could also explore that option - which, I'm sure is equally competitive, but I would offer my services not necessarily to locals, but to Americans doing destination weddings. I've been reading up on this and think that'd be the "easiest" way to break into something like that.

You should come check out the international members thread (http://www.constantchatter.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1397824). It has been deadish for a while but I will bump it back up for you.Heading over now! Thanks for the bump.

[diam124]

DH and I have talked about moving abroad. There is a (very) remote chance that this could happen with his current company. IMO, it's harder to do it on your own without having a job pre-arranged. Also, if you move for a job they would hopefully help out with some of the moving and/or storage expenses and other expenses. As a kid I lived in Germany for 2 years because my Dad had the opportunity to work there through his company. We knew it was only for 2 years, and I think that helped a lot because when we were homesick and frustrated we knew there was an end in sight.

It took us a long time to get adjusted (esp. since my Dad was the only one who was fluent in German) and we had a lot of support and American friends through my Dad's company and our school.

I don't know if you'd have any interest in teaching, but most of our teachers were American. A lot of them (and the other school employees) were not really "career teachers" but wanted to live abroad and were able to do it by teaching. I have no idea what the legal requirements are for that though.

[am_81]

Well, you know all about my situation and how we've ended up where we did. Obviously, the easiest way to go about moving abroad is to do it through a work transfer situation. DH had always talked abstractedly about living in Europe, but until he got the offer for the job in Zurich, it was pretty much an impossibility. I cant remember where your DH works, or where his company have offices, but definitely look into that angle. Relocation normally comes with a good package -- moving expenses, COLA, housing allowance, etc. We also got a car (and all related expenses paid for) and one home-trip a year for each of us.

Also, depending on where youre looking into going, the "extended stay" visa may be worthless. Like here, it was only 3 weeks! That is considered normal travel in most EU countries and requires no special visa, but here, anything over 3 weeks had to be approved by the govt.

[Mrs U]

I'm an Expat! I moved to Switzerland after meeting ex-hubby. He basically got all the paperwork in order for me to stay.

On a side note- with the divorce behind me it was a costly PIA to stay. Fortunately I met a loving Swiss man, had a child which turned into my ticket to stay (not intentionally done)

You might want to investigate on the countries cultures- I know here in Switzerland it was very hard to learn that one cant just drop on by, cheers had to be said while looking at the other person in the eye, all the holidays (which differ from canton to canton), ect..

[villanelle75]

We are trying very hard to get the military to send us to Italy. Because the military pays for shipping of all household goods and even a car, and they assist with finding housing, etc., it would be easier for us than for most people trying to do so on their own. Also, we could avoid the Visa issue, which is often the killer, especially in Italy, form what I understand. I wouldn't be able to work except for on-base, where jobs are limited in both scope and availability. But DH would get generous COLA and other benefits, so we'd be fine on one salary. We actively pursued this opportunity and are fighting hard to get it, so it is definitely something we sought out, but still sometimes when I think about it, I get very scared and overwhelmed. One thing that is comforting is that because there is a good sized military base there, I know there are many American people and things. I don't want to only hang out with Expats and on base as the whole reason we want to do this is to explore another culture, but it is reassuring to know that that safety net exists.

If you are interested in Italy specifically, JustHB, check outwww.expatsinitaly.com/ (http://www.expatsinitaly.com/). I found a lot of useful information in the site and on the boards.

As for us, we are hoping to get an answer in the next month. Of course, I've been saying that since February, but this time we've been told it should be 3-4 weeks before we hear something, so my fingers are firmly crossed until then!

[BridalLace]

i was an expat for 2 years from 95-97. a lot of people go the English teaching route to make an income as an expat. in Asia, teaching English can actually be pretty lucrative, although the cost of living there is comparably high, unfortunately. i really only know about Asia, and you seem interested in Europe or Mexico/Central-South America, so i can only say that there are English teaching jobs there too, although i can't say how much they pay. BUT you really only need a 4 year degree to get a lot of these jobs, and they don't have to be Ed degrees, either. and some of these jobs can be pretty easy, light on work load or hours etc.... anyway, that is the best way i personally know of to get abroad if you really want to go....

p.s. Dave's ESL Cafe has a lot of jobs all over the world for English teachers. daveseslcafe.com, i think. well, if that's wrong, you can google it.....

good luck!

[daener]

Yes, I am craving to be an expat! My mother is from Switzerland and I spent a good part of my childhood there. Through my mom, I have Swiss citizenship (which means I can work in any EU country) and have always craved an expat experience.

Several years ago DH and I seriously considered moving to Ireland. We figured pretty much everything out (from how to get the dogs into the country most easily to locating an apartment that was dog-friendly), then he was diagnosed with a heart ailment requiring surgery and everything was put on hold. Now -- five years and two surgeries later -- we are again looking for an opportunity to move abroad.

Obviously, my citizenship status will benefit us and I am the one who needs to find the right opportunity to make it happen. So, I'm looking for jobs in Europe where fluent English and dual citizenship are welcome attributes. I speak conversational German, French and Spanish, so we'll see if this is beneficial, but a job in a location where English is the business language would be most welcome. Fingers crossed!!!

[kalogrias]

Daener -- I'd check on the working situation with Swiss citizenship -- as far as I know, it's not a Schengen country, and therefore might have different visa rules apply.

[Mrs U]

Daener- Switzerland is soon to be included with Schengen :D If you hold a lovely red passport, jobs are no problem ;)

Take a gander at www.englishforum.ch for a ton of info about Switzerland and job/housing/visas/ect.

[kmack]

we are moving to dublin in the spring. DH's firm asked him to run the office over there for 2-3 years so they are doing everything for us. unfortunately it is not the best timing since we are due with DC#2 in early march and they wanted him there at the beginning of the year so he is 'commuting' for a bit.

while it is really stressful dealing with all of this now, i am very excited about the move. i have never been to ireland before but am told i will love it!

[tlew12778]

Sorry I don't think anyone is getting notifications anymore :( And a lot of ppl have left the boards in general...