Woman dying on hospital floor denied help by 911 operators

[mrs_pell]

:eek: :eek: Holy freaking hell!!!

Report: 911 Operators Refused Aid to Woman Left to Die on L.A. ER Floor (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,281775,00.html)

I just really don't know what to say about this! I feel so bad for that woman and her family (as well as the other pts/families that witnessed it!) :mad:

New 911 tapes released Tuesday reveal that dispatchers refused to send help to a woman ignored by hospital staff as she lay dying on the floor of a Los Angeles emergency room.

Edith Isabel Rodriguez, 43, died after dispatchers on two 911 calls refused to contact paramedics or an ambulance to send her to another facility, the Los Angeles Times reported Tuesday. The second dispatcher went so far as to argue with the caller over whether it was a real emergency.

Rodriguez died of a perforated bowel on May 9 at Martin Luther King Jr.-Harbor Hospital. Her death was ruled accidental by the Los Angeles County coroner's office.


A second 911 call was placed eight minutes later by a woman bystander who requested that an ambulance be sent to take Rodriguez to some other hospital for care.

"She's definitely sick and there's a guy that's ignoring her," the woman told a different dispatcher.

During the brief call, the dispatcher argued with the woman over whether there really was an emergency.

"I cannot do anything for you for the quality of the hospital. ... It is not an emergency. It is not an emergency, ma'am," he said.

"You're not here to see how they're treating her," the woman replied.

The dispatcher refused to call paramedics and told the woman that she should contact hospital supervisors "and let them know" if she is unhappy.

"May God strike you, too, for acting the way you just acted," the woman said finally.

"No, negative ma'am, you're the one," he said.

There's oh-so-much more at the link! I'm horrified at both the hospital employees and the 911 operators!! I certainly hope that several people are forced to pay some serious consequences for this!!

[jennylou]

I too was horrified at the 911 responders and the hospital. Moreso the hospital, I think. After all, if you were a 911 responder and someone called you from the hospital, it would be a bit odd, don't you think? I mean, I'd probably think someone was looney and just needed to go up to the nurses station/admission area rather than bug 911.

[sea74]

Moreso the hospital, I think. After all, if you were a 911 responder and someone called you from the hospital, it would be a bit odd, don't you think? I mean, I'd probably think someone was looney and just needed to go up to the nurses station/admission area rather than bug 911
I agree. If I were the 911 employee, I'd think the people were off. But the hospital staff? Unforgivable.

[mrs_pell]

I too was horrified at the 911 responders and the hospital. Moreso the hospital, I think. After all, if you were a 911 responder and someone called you from the hospital, it would be a bit odd, don't you think? I mean, I'd probably think someone was looney and just needed to go up to the nurses station/admission area rather than bug 911.

Yeah, I was thinking that too, at first, but after TWO calls from two separate people, I would think that someone would think, "hmmm, maybe we should at least check into this," instead of saying, ""No, negative ma'am, you're the one," he said."

But, yes, I'm definitely more horrified at the hospital. Nice to know they changed their name to try to re-organize after too many deaths... :rolleyes:

[sea74]

I've seen this story covered on TV, heard it on radio and now read the story at the link. But NO ONE has reported WHY the hospital staff wasn't treating her! Anyone know why?

[jennylou]

Yeah, I was thinking that too, at first, but after TWO calls from two separate people, I would think that someone would think, "hmmm, maybe we should at least check into this," instead of saying, ""No, negative ma'am, you're the one," he said."

But, yes, I'm definitely more horrified at the hospital. Nice to know they changed their name to try to re-organize after too many deaths... :rolleyes:

Yes, but this happened in a huge metro area. Two different 911 operators took two different calls, so they may have had no way of knowing about the other call.

[mrs_pell]

I've seen this story covered on TV, heard it on radio and now read the story at the link. But NO ONE has reported WHY the hospital staff wasn't treating her! Anyone know why?

Very good question, and I have no idea what the answer is! But, here is a little more info I just found from here. (http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1632450,00.html)

County and state authorities are now investigating Rodriguez's death. Relatives reported she died as police were wheeling her out of the hospital after the officers they had asked to help Rodriguez arrested her instead on a parole violation. Sheriff's Department spokesman Duane Allen said Wednesday that the investigation is ongoing.

The incident was the latest high-profile lapse at King-Harbor, formerly known as King/Drew. The Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors is investigating claims of recent patient care breakdowns, including Rodriguez's case.

Federal inspectors last week said emergency room patients were in "immediate jeopardy" of harm or death, and King-Harbor was given 23 days to shape up or risk losing federal funding.

Dr. Bruce Chernof, director of the county Department of Health Services, which oversees the facility, has called Rodriguez's death "inexcusable" and said it was "important to understand that this was fundamentally a failure of caring."

And more from here (http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-me-calls13jun13,1,2918357.story?coll=la-headlines-frontpage&track=crosspromo)
Rodriguez lay untreated on the ER lobby floor for 45 minutes before dying. A video camera captured the episode, showing that staffers and patients stood by as a janitor cleaned the floor around her. She was buried in Tehachapi on Tuesday. :eek: :mad:

Rodriguez's death was just one of the King-Harbor issues discussed Tuesday during a meeting of the county Board of Supervisors. Also at that meeting, the county health services director disclosed that the hospital had replaced its medical director, citing his handling of an unrelated lapse in patient care. In that case, a man with a brain tumor languished without treatment in the ER for four days before he was taken elsewhere by family and friends for emergency surgery.

[mrs_pell]

Yes, but this happened in a huge metro area. Two different 911 operators took two different calls, so they may have had no way of knowing about the other call.

Probably so...

But I'm still horrified by the way the 2nd person spoke to the person! I bet those 2 operators are not very happy right now with all this coverage and their calls being posted on the net!!

[sea74]

A video camera captured the episode, showing that staffers and patients stood by as a janitor cleaned the floor around her.
Can you even fathom just standing there and watching someone die and not do a damn thing about it? Or be the family member who was there and probably frantic and begging for someone to help! I'm ill.

[mrs_pell]

Can you even fathom just standing there and watching someone die and not do a damn thing about it? Or be the family member who was there and probably frantic and begging for someone to help! I'm ill.

No, I can't. I think that's why I'm so pissed off about this!!

[jennylou]

Probably so...

But I'm still horrified by the way the 2nd person spoke to the person! I bet those 2 operators are not very happy right now with all this coverage and their calls being posted on the net!!


Oh, I don't condone the way that he spoke to her. I dealt with my fair share of crazies on the phone before but you still have to be polite.

[larslobster]

Before I moved out of L.A., a year and a half ago, the Los Angeles Times wrote a long series of articles about the problems at King Drew Medical Center. After reading all of those, this incident doesn't surprise me. I'd be terrified to go there with all the problems and medical mistakes that are made there. But, the community it serves (poor and many uninsured) really needs a hospital and many believe they'd rather have it than nothing at all. They had just closed the trauma center back then so they could focus the hospital's resources on other things (like the emergency room) but it looks like nothing has changed.

[jnettie]

I remember hearing that LA (or maybe the state of CA) passed a law that said they would not treat illegal aliens in the hospitals, not even emergencies. Is this true? Perhaps this played into it as well - the staff assumed that she was illegal and therefor chose not to care for her. If so, this is a totally crappy law, IMO.

[Rositabean]

The hospital in question has a well deserved nickname of "Killer King". It is a horrendous hospital plagued with problems but anytime there is suggestion of reform or closure those making the suggestions are accused of racism aimed at the predominantly minority staff and patients "served." I don't think 911 is at fault because who calls for paramedics from within an ER when there are supposedly trained staff on the other side of the door? The call could have been assumed a prank because the proper channel would have been to get on the case of the triage nurse to get past the door. The problem is with the hospital, which should be closed. The fact that non-emergent patients clog ERs nationwide makes the incompetence of the hospital even worse. I feel sorry for anyone who voluntarily goes King or is taken there by ambulance.

[MsPeachy]

I'm horrified that this happened but not completely surprised. Emergency care for walk-ins at hospitals sucks. If you're not gushing blood from an open wound, they don't give a crap. And even then, you better hope you were brought in by an ambulance if you want to get seen right away. When I was a teen, my parents brought me to the ER one night - I was very ill, strange rash on my face, high fever and barely able to sit in a chair without passing out. I had to sit in the waiting room for 2 hours and then in a room for another hour before someone finally saw me and when they did, my BP had dropped to dangerously low levels (50/35). Nice. Earlier this year my stepson was brought to the ER by his mother after a skateboard injury where he'd cracked his head. A child with a head injury - yep - still forced to wait for several hours before being seen while he could have had bleeding in his brain or other internal injuries. The fact that non-emergent patients clog ERs nationwide makes the incompetence of the hospital even worse. This is so true for hospitals everywhere.

[LyLMyssChaos]

I'm horrified that this happened but not completely surprised. Emergency care for walk-ins at hospitals sucks. If you're not gushing blood from an open wound, they don't give a crap. And even then, you better hope you were brought in by an ambulance if you want to get seen right away. When I was a teen, my parents brought me to the ER one night - I was very ill, strange rash on my face, high fever and barely able to sit in a chair without passing out. I had to sit in the waiting room for 2 hours and then in a room for another hour before someone finally saw me and when they did, my BP had dropped to dangerously low levels (50/35). Nice. Earlier this year my stepson was brought to the ER by his mother after a skateboard injury where he'd cracked his head. A child with a head injury - yep - still forced to wait for several hours before being seen while he could have had bleeding in his brain or other internal injuries. This is so true for hospitals everywhere.

So, so true!

I was rushed to the ER with a heart attack and it took the doctor over an hour to see me because "I was too young to have a heart attack." What saved my tooshie was that I was smart enough to take aspirin at home before leaving for the hospital. When I had my stroke it took them almost 2 hours to see me. By that point some damage had already been done.

[katmg]

I saw this on the news and was horrified but not surprised. I waited 7 hours in an ER when I was having a m/c and told by my ob/gyn to go to the hospital and that they should see me "immediately." When they drew blood at hour 4, I passed out and started seizing and they sent me back to the waiting area since I came to. I was finally seen 3 hours later. :rolleyes: Emergency care is so screwed up in our country. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that so many people don't have health coverage and are forced to use emergency rooms for all their medical care. :(

[sea74]

LMC: and katmg: Wow! I'm so sorry that happened to you two.
And even then, you better hope you were brought in by an ambulance if you want to get seen right away.
When my grandfather was ill my grandmother specifically called an ambulance because she knew if she did not it would be HOURS before he would be seen and that wasn't going to be okay. Sad but true :(

[kristin]

As an ER nurse, I am absolutely horrified that such a thing could happen at a JCAHO credentialed facility.

I think the 911 operators are entirely blameless. When I worked in an inner-city hospital where there were long waits, many patients would call 911 from the parking lot, thinking that an ambulance could get them in the back door. If you've ever worked in an ER, I'm sure you've seen people do this. 911 then contacts hospital security to usher the patient back in the waiting room if they still want to be seen. The way people abuse the system is revolting - I have actually had people come in by ambulance for canker sores! Where I worked, the charge nurse would do a quick assessment of the ambulance pt, and then if she deemed the person non-critical, they were taken off the stretcher and ushered to the waiting area.

I can only imagine what was happening in that ER that day that there was absolutely NO health care provider to at least do a quick assessment on that poor woman. Where on earth was the triage nurse? That is just gross negligence.

Even where I work now, in a pretty affluent area, there are sometimes really long wait times. But patients have no idea what is going on in the back when they are waiting, and due to HIPPA regulations, you cannot disclose to other patients what is going on.

The other day we had a really bad asthmatic, a critical child with new onset diabetes, and then we coded a 2 year old (who didn't make it). The whole time patients parents where hounding the secretarial staff because they had been waiting an hour to see a doctor (which really is not that long). These kids had already been seen by a triage nurse and deemed non-urgent. These kids all had minor things, albeit they felt major to the parents. Splinters, sprained ankles, that type of thing. It is so frustrating to the staff not to be able to tell them why they are waiting. we can only say "We have some very critical patients". I have a feeling if they knew the staff was dealing with these very sick kids, they would stop screaming and realize how lucky they are.

[skyblu]

As an EMT and EMS dispatcher, I can tell you that, at least in our state, it is against OEMS (Office of Emergency Medical Services) regulations to respond (lights/sirens) to an ER in a facility qualified to deal with the patient's particular condition. As in, our company will LOSE THEIR LICENSE TO OPERATE.

Our paramedics do not have any jurisdiction to treat a patient that was already inside a qualified Emergency Room. We do have a contract with some smaller, less equipped facilities to which we are allowed to respond on a priority call with lights and sirens if they have a patient with a health issue that they are not equipped to handle. But there has to be an MD authorizing the priority request, and explaining the reason for the transfer. Otherwise, we can't do anything.

I take 911 calls and dispatch ambulances daily, and I would not be able to send a paramedic unit to assist a patient in the ER of a medical center unless there was a mass casualty incident and the hospital itself asked for help with a large volume of patients.

I'm not sure of the CA laws, but if they are like here, then the blame in this case lies squarely upon the hospital, not the 911 dispatchers. It is the hospital's responsibility to assess and care for all of their patients and to ask for help if needed.

[MsPeachy]

Saw this update on MSN today -

Hospital may lose license after ER lobby death (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19375461/wid/11915773?GT1=10056)

[Asha]

The fact that non-emergent patients clog ERs nationwide makes the incompetence of the hospital even worse.
so true! my dh gets rx's all the time from patients treated in an emergency room for non emergencies. he actually says most rx's from emergency rooms are for non emergencies. the problem is that hospitals cannot deny treatment to patients based on ability to pay but dr's offices can. also, i think some people are not well educated and don't truly understand the difference btwn emergency and non emergency, and they don't know how to use otc/natural methods to treat common ailments.

[jesvet]

Asha- in my area, the problem is so severe that many ERs are closing because they can't handle the burden of the non-emergent ER patients. So now we have MORE patients and less hospitals and the problem is even worse. It's a nightmare.

[jennylou]

so true! my dh gets rx's all the time from patients treated in an emergency room for non emergencies. he actually says most rx's from emergency rooms are for non emergencies. the problem is that hospitals cannot deny treatment to patients based on ability to pay but dr's offices can. also, i think some people are not well educated and don't truly understand the difference btwn emergency and non emergency, and they don't know how to use otc/natural methods to treat common ailments.

Dr's are also to blame. Some routinely tell their patients to go to the ER if they can't be squeezed in the same day. I was told to go to the ER for strep throat. I didn't - which meant I had to suffer until the next day. But, that was more stubborness on my part. Why should I pay a $100 copay when I could pay $20 the next day? Still it annoyed me to be told to go to the ER for something that was clearly NOT critical.

[mimieliza]

Dr's are also to blame. Some routinely tell their patients to go to the ER if they can't be squeezed in the same day.

This is very true. Plus, what's an emergency? My DH fell down the stairs and separated his shoulder. He wasn't going to die or have lasting damage, but he was in terrible pain. It was midnight, so we took him to the ER. Should he have waited in pain all night until he could get in to the doctor the next morning?

We need more Urgent Care centers with extended hours, and more options for people without insurance.

[Asha]

This is very true. Plus, what's an emergency? My DH fell down the stairs and separated his shoulder. He wasn't going to die or have lasting damage, but he was in terrible pain. It was midnight, so we took him to the ER. Should he have waited in pain all night until he could get in to the doctor the next morning?
i think extreme pain definitely qualifies as an emergency. i don't think you have to be on death's door to qualify as an emergency, but some things are obviously not an emergency such as constipation, small rash on the body, yeast infection, etc...

in my area, the problem is so severe that many ERs are closing because they can't handle the burden of the non-emergent ER patients. So now we have MORE patients and less hospitals and the problem is even worse. It's a nightmare.
there's been a lot of media around here about closing some hospitals. i wonder if it has to do with the overload in the emergency rooms.

jennylou - i also agree dr's share some of the blame. some make it nearly impossible to get an appt, so if you want to get a rx without suffering for too many days, you end up having to go to an emergency room.