Christians meet here! [Archive]

Elizabeth

07-25-2005, 05:20 PM

Hi guys! I thought I'd make a group for us Christians on CC... since sometimes we can feel a bit "persecuted"! ;)

All kidding aside, I'd like this to be a place where we can share prayer requests, answers to prayer, theological discussions, thoughts about God, and perhaps even field questions from inquisitors.

Wondering if you're a "Christian?" Yes, Catholics, you are Christians too! Hope no one takes offense to that, but I've met several Catholics who thought they might be excluded from that label. Everyone who proclaims that Jesus Christ is Lord is a Christian. (Romans 10:9)

Christians around the world, in the Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Reformed (Protestant) traditions all believe the Apostle's Creed:

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.

So if this statement describes your beliefs, welcome! Maybe we can start out by introducing ourselves and sharing how you became a Christian. My name is Elizabeth (duh), I'm 26, and I was born into a Christian family. My dad was a Presbyterian minister. I asked Jesus to "come into my heart" when I was 6 so I didn't have a radical conversion experience. My relationship with God has undergone challenges throughout my life, but I owe everything to Him and his guidance.

"If the WORLD hates you, know it hated me before it hated you. If you were of the WORLD, the WORLD would love his own: but because you are not of the WORLD, but I have chosen you out of the WORLD, therefore the WORLD will hate you." John 15:18,19

mrs_pell

07-25-2005, 06:40 PM

Yikes...took me forever to find this thread, since I just saw the mention of it in the "why do people use religion to identify themselves" thread! But, I did find it!

I'm glad you started this thread. I became a Christian at a very young age (around 5 I think?), so like you, not really a radical conversion or anything. I grew up with Christian parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. I went to a small Christian school, and church 3 times a week. It was just my "way of life," I guess.

When I went to college, I started partying, and questioning a lot of my beliefs. I stopped going to church, stopped reading my Bible, and basically lived my college life "to the fullest" (or so I thought). This pretty much went on all through undergrad and graduate school. I met my now DH in grad school, married 2 years ago, and started going back to church now and then because I felt like "I should."

THEN, in January of this year...I started reading the "Left Behind" series. Books that I had no interest in whatsoever when they first came out (probably because I didn't want to have to think about things...I was having too much fun). Those books just really made me miss what I had when I was younger and I wanted it back. I asked DH to start going to church with me, and we found a church that we both really, really love. He didn't grow up around church, so this is all very new to him (but he's sooooo open to it, and asks so many questions).

Anyway, I feel as though these last few months have just been a great experience for me. I see things that God has done for me that I can't believe I "missed" seeing/noticing in the last few years. But, in one way, I'm almost glad that I went through that phase of questioning my beliefs, because now that I've found my way back, I think my beliefs are stronger now than they ever were. It's as if instead of just taking everything I'd always been around as automatic truth, I've really come to that realization on my own (and through the prayers of a lot of people!).

Ok...so there it is...my life story. :) Didn't intend on this becoming so long!

isign

07-25-2005, 07:23 PM

Hi
I am glad you started this thread. I am a Christian, and have been since I was 10. I grew up in the church and went to a Christian school for a while. I was always 'Miss Goodie two Shoes' so I felt I had to prove I wasn't, and I did, but then proved how much I really was when I knew I had done wrong and returned to my first Love. I met my husband in church, who had gone through the same things I did. He served as a bi-vocational youth pastor the first year we were married. We were very burnt by 'church' and very burnt out. Even though I know that I am not where I want to be, I know that God has his hand on us and our marriage. That's the best feeling in the entire world :)
One thing I do have to say -
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting

I'm not catholic :) I do belive in everything else that was said.
One thing DH and I say over and over. I do not belive that you have to be a specific denomination. Catholic, Baptist, AOG, Buddist, Muslim, whatever - it doesn't matter the 'title' of your church. What matters is you reaching the point in your life where you do 3 things Admit that you are a sinner, Belive in Jesus Christ, death & resurection, and Commit to changing your life and living it to glorify Him. That I think we can all agree on.

ETA - Dh and I were talking about this last night. He corrected me. He said that Catholic in this sense wasn't talking about the specific denomination, but it meant the church as a whole. He reminded me that Catholisism wasn't around then. :o

mrs_pell

07-25-2005, 07:32 PM

Isign...it's really funny that you mentioned that part of the Apostle's Creed. Our preacher actually read that out loud this week, and talked about that exact phrase, and how it means something "different" than believing in the Catholic church. He said every time they read that passage in a church service, someone will come up to him and say, "What? The Catholic Church?" Now, I'm trying my very best to remember how he explained it!! Here is what I found on the actual meaning of the word "catholic:"

Etymologically, the word "catholic" comes from the Greek adjective katholikos (καθολικος) – καθολικήν is the accusative feminine singular form – formed on the basis of the adverb "katholou", which means "in general", "according to the whole". The word "catholic" thus means "general", "universal".

So, it just means "the universal church," as in all believers. Not necessarily the Catholic Church denomination (or at least that is how protestants interpret it).

(I'm still just laughing about how weird it is that this came up, since we JUST talked about it YESTERDAY!!)

annie_girl

07-25-2005, 08:06 PM

Hiya, another Christian checking in. :)

I grew up in the Catholic church. I was baptised as a baby (of course) took first communion in 3rd grade (of course) but my parents divorced when I was 11, and we were "allowed" to stop going to church, so I was never confirmed. My sister and I were both thrilled that we didn't have to go to church anymore. I hated going. I hated sunday school, and hated getting up for church. I didn't exactly hate GOING to church or being in church, I just found it horribly boring.

It did put the fear of God in me though, which I have always thought was a good thing. I was a good kid throughout school and even into my 20's. Well, good is a relative term. I didn't steal anything really big, didn't tell too many lies, didn't do any really BAD drugs..... Yeah, I was a pretty good person. Drinking was fun, sex was fun, life was great. But I was always searching for something, a better looking guy, better sex, a permanent boyfriend or husband, better job, more money, whatever would make me happier.

It wasn't until I was 30 that I realized what it was, and it came in the form of my most wanted boyfriend ever. A gorgeous Christian guy, saving himself for marriage, which was the most refreshing thing that had happened to me in my entire adult life. For the first time I could hang out with a guy and not have to worry about him pushing sex on me. (I was always a willing participant anyway, but I WAS looking for a husband and tried to hold them off as long as possible) I also didn't have to worry about a potential marriage since he wanted to marry a virgin as well. But we had an awesome summer and long story short, I wanted the happiness he had, that he found in Jesus.

**very long drawn out stuff omitted**

And that was that, in the fall of 2000 I found what I had been searching for my entire life. God. I went back to Catholic church, felt at home there, felt God's presence definitely. But I was also feeling a hunger for the bible, and wasn't getting fed there, so I went in search.... Next I attended an Assembly of God for almost a year. Loved the sermons, people didn't reach out to me, it was lonely, and I didn't like the "audience participation" so I searched again. Turned out my Assembly of God was quite a mild one. I tried a bunch of different churches and finally in the summer of 2002 met a friend on a misison trip who introduced me to her church, Calvary Chapel, a non-denominational church which I love. I was baptised in the Gulf of Mexico in September of 2002.

But I am telling you, I have NEVER been happier since becoming a Christian. I would have never thought feeling this way was possible. I want to shout from the rooftops how happy life is with Jesus. (Of course it isn't always roses only, but at least it isn't always thorns like my life before. It is a happy medium, and I strive for more "roses" :D )

But then again, had someone shouted from the rooftop to me at anytime in my life before 2000, I would have called them a freak and split. So I refrain as best I can, and wait for people to come to me. I try to be an example as best I can to my friends, co-workers, and family.

And like Cori said, I didn't intend for this to become so long, but there you have it, there's my entire life story! Geez! :D

DiscoDiva

07-25-2005, 08:11 PM

isign: it may be my monitor, but i can't read your post in pink.

I'm a Christian too!!! but I'll have to come back tomorrow to post my story.

kmmommy

07-25-2005, 08:17 PM

I'm a Christian too. Born and raised as a Catholic I don't remember a time when I wasn't a Christian. My name is Kelly and I'm 24 years old. Both my parents are Catholic (although my step-dad is Lutheran) and my mom and grandfather are devout. My DH decided to convert when we were dating and our children will be raised as Catholics also.

I am admittedly not a great Catholic. I'm not good about attending mass or going to confession, etc. But I'm a good Christian. God is in my heart and my home and I'm working hard to instill Him and His values in my son.

Thank you for starting this thread. I do believe it will be a good source of comfort to us in our times of need.

mrs_pell

07-25-2005, 08:17 PM

isign: it may be my monitor, but i can't read your post in pink.

It's a little difficult for me to read it, too, but I can. And, DD, I never answered your question in the other thread about "why orange?" Honestly, I don't know. I've just been on this MAJOR pink and orange kick lately. My LJ is all pink and orange, too. I figured orange would be easier to read than pink, and on my monitor, the orange I had before was fine. But, after a few people told me they were having problems seeing it, I switched to bolding it, hoping it would work b/c I didn't want to go back to "just black." ;)

annie_girl

07-25-2005, 08:22 PM

I always find that when I can't read someone's post because the color is too light or whatever, I just highlight the post. Then the colors change and it's all crystal clear. :) That's just my quick fix. Hope it helps.

Otherwise, get a new monitor! :D

JillyBean

07-25-2005, 10:37 PM

Another Christian checking in :)

charliezangel

07-26-2005, 06:56 AM

I was born and raised Jwsih, but have been "Born Again" since I was about 15. Through the years, my faith in God has fluctuated, and it has only been recently (the past couple years) that I have stood strong in my faith and rededicated my life. It's nice to have a place to meet other christians.

isign

07-26-2005, 07:03 AM

Marie

07-26-2005, 07:19 AM

Hi everyone.

I was not raised in any church. My family never went to church but did talk about God. I was somewhat taught to distrust church and organized religion. Growing up I saw a lot of people who seemed to reinforce this idea. "Sunday Christians" so to speak. Lots of people who would be horrible during the week, go to church on Sunday and think they were good Christians.

Sometime in my mid-20's I started reconnecting a bit and questioning the skepticism. I also started reading the Left Behind series and that lead me to read the Bible. My husband was raised in the Episcopal Church and after a long absense (most of his adult life) he decided he wanted to start going back as well. We now attend a Calvary Episcopal Church.

I'm very glad God was brought into my life. My days are so much richer because of His presence. I'm sad that I was not exposed to His teachings earlier in life and will raise our children differently.

annie_girl

07-26-2005, 07:55 AM

Hi Marie!! That's a great story! So many people like to say Christians are Christians because that's the way they were brought up. Your story sure proves otherwise. :)

bethnjim

07-26-2005, 08:35 AM

I am a Christian...and I am so happy to see a place where we can talk about our beliefs. I was born and raised in the Christian faith.

TX Sweetheart

07-26-2005, 08:51 AM

Elizabeth

07-26-2005, 09:23 AM

Yea! I'm so glad that this thread has gotten such participation already! It warms my heart to see so many Christian sisters here on CC ...

Charliezangel - I'm curious to hear your story - how did you become a Christian?

Verse for the day!
"I'm not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of every one who believes; first for the Jew, then for the gentile." Romans 1:16

sea74

07-26-2005, 10:33 AM

Hi! I’m checking in, too! I’m at work so I don’t have time for my whole “story,” but I was raised catholic until just after I made my 1st communion. Then we started going to a nondenominational church. I’ve always believed in God and in Jesus Christ, but it wasn’t until my very early 20s that I really found God myself. Not to say I didn’t have strong beliefs when I was younger, but in my early 20s, I really stared to “know” God.

I’m 31 now and attend Mt. Zion in Clarkston Michigan. I love my church. I know God is real and his presence in my life in amazing. I cannot comprehend not having a personal relationship with God/Jesus/Holy Spirit let along how some people don’t even believe in God/Jesus/Holy Spirit.

Like some others have said, I read the Left Behind books and LOVED them.

al'sgirl

07-26-2005, 10:46 AM

I'm joining in too ...

I was born and raised in a wonderful Christian home and asked Jesus to be my Lord and Saviour when I was 7 years old. It wasn't a dramatic conversion, but I feel very blessed to have had God in my life since the very beginning.

Life still has it's ups and downs, but over the years, God has certainly been leading and taking care of my life and I'm very thankful for all his blessings!

Thanks everyone for sharing your stories .... :)

juliemag

07-26-2005, 11:58 AM

Hi-ya! I'm a Christian too! Great idea for a thread. :D

tbell

07-26-2005, 12:41 PM

Count me in!

I was raised a Christian and it was a big part of my life from birth to college. I was a "good girl" and would have never even contemplated living outside my faith. My parents were ultra-religious and that's just the way life was to me.

Fast forward to my freshman year of college. My parents got divorced and all of a sudden my dad, who I was extremely close to and a great Christian male role model, disappeared from my life. I decided to try everything I never did in high school and totally fell away from my faith. But there was always a little nagging voice, almost like a piece of my life was missing. I thought I was having so much fun, sleeping around and partying, but I was actually miserable. I tried everything to fill the void but nothing worked. I had a nervous breakdown my junior year of college, was in a string of horrible relationships and miserable. I totally swore off all men and kept searching for something to make me happy.

After college, I became friends with a co-worker and she invited me to her church. This is the same time I met DH (another co-worker) but had no idea of his religious beliefs (we were acquaintences). I started attending church with my friend and while it was intially a little awkward, I remembered the feelings of absolute joy that I used to have when God and I were on the same page. DH and I became closer, and I found out that he was deeply religious and he eventually joined the same church. DH and I had a lot of problems early in our relationship but through it all, he was a great influence to me and I knew God brought him into my life for a reason. I hoped that reason was romantic, but I knew that even if it didn't work out between us, he did me a huge favor by showing me that good, decent men existed and that my faith was most important.

After 5 years, DH and I were married at the same church and still attend. I have come back to where I was in high school, but it's SO much better now that I'm older. I'm not self-conscious about it anymore but am so thankful that I had my "stupid" years because I know that my faith is real, not just something my parents taught me. I've looked around and nothing brings me the joy that my relationship with Christ does. I am very thankful that God brought me a Christian husband who I know I will be with even after I die. No one in my family is a Christian anymore, which breaks my heart. Really, none of my friends are either. My sister and one of my close friends are very condescending about my faith, and it frustrates me that to a lot of people, Christians are perceived as stupid or deluded.

I have been hoping a thread like this would get started--it seems like there are plenty attacking Christians!!!

Graffy

07-26-2005, 12:45 PM

Good thread, I was hoping someone would start one.

DH and I attend the same evangelical Christian church that I've attended all my life. I love hearing everyone share their testimonies.

We're currently holding a Bible study for high schoolers in our home on Tuesday nights. We started it in June and have had anywhere from 2 to 13 kids come. That could use some prayer because neither of us feel particularly equipped for this kind of ministry, yet we both really feel that God has led us to do this. And we have dinner for them each Tuesday night, too, so if anyone has ideas of fairly simple, inexpensive recipes that make quite a bit of food I'm very open to hearing those!

al'sgirl

07-26-2005, 12:54 PM

Graffy ... We host a Bible study group for our high school group as well. Actually, only for half of our whole church group. Ours only runs during their school year, so we are currently having a little break, and regrouping for the next session! We have between 8 and 20, and split off into guys and girls within the house too. DH and I both love working with this age group.

You are pretty adventureous providing dinner for them each week! The most we've done is two pot-luck dinners, otherwise they come after dinnertime. A few food ideas for you that we found worked really well during retreat weekends and such ... grilled cheese sandwiches, tacos, chilli, and of course, pizza :)

Graffy

07-26-2005, 01:15 PM

Andrea...The whole dinner thing is a little scary, especially since I'm far from talented in the culinary arts :rolleyes: , but the reason we're doing it is because we're modeling it on a Bible study that DH and I attended for a few years that was really an awesome, special time. It was based Acts 2:42 and the idea of coming together for breaking of bread, prayer, and teaching, and since it was so meaningful for us, we wanted the high schoolers to be able to experience something like it.

It was actually DH who first had the idea, and my first reaction was kind of like :eek: ! We lead the high school youth group during the school year, so we decided to try this during the summer and just see where it goes- with the hope that it might expand beyond our church, and that's starting to happen a little bit! DH is leading a chapter by chapter study of the book of John and I think some of the kids are surprised at how interesting it is.

Thank you for the ideas for food. The grilled cheese is something I hadn't thought of, and if it continues past the summer chili will most certainly become a staple on the list.

Chris'slady

07-26-2005, 01:21 PM

I'am a chrisitan too.

Like most others I have had my faith tested and went in the wrong direction.
My parents were deacons pretty much my whole life (still are.) My parents used to always tell me what was right and wrong, and that i should have faith fot the things I'am believing for. When i turned 18 i decided to meet a few new girls which were clearly bad, but i wanted to do all the things i was'nt supposed to do and prove to them that it was'nt bad i would get home at 2-3 in the morning, day in day out. I soon realized i was miserably, and these friends make me miserable. so after 7 months i took everything to the altar, i prayed and prayed,and spoke postive affirmations god gave me the desires of my heart for 2 and a half i spoke blessings and a good man in to my life. God brought this man to my church from michigan( till this day i laugh at how funny life works) I beleive it is awesome how when good feels you are ready to handle the desire he puts it their with a snap of his fingers. and we are getting married this August.
Although, like tbell said it is hard, i feel alone sometimes like on weekend and i need a friend to go shopping with etc.etc.. to go out to dinner and a movie (Double date) it is hard although i do shop with my mother alot sometimes you need someone your age.
But I'am speaking a strong christian couple with come in to our lives.

Sorry i'am going on and on.

al'sgirl

07-26-2005, 01:22 PM

Nicole ... the nice thing about teens, is they will eat practicially anything! They certainly don't care if anything fancy happens or not. :) Will you lead the youth group again for this coming year? or just do the Bible study?

BethElena

07-26-2005, 01:47 PM

Hi guys! I thought I'd make a group for us Christians on CC... since sometimes we can feel a bit "persecuted"! ;)
Very funny...you must have read what I responded to about the whole coworkers nasty comment thread...It's nice that there will finally be a place to talk to with other Christian's without feeling "persecuted." For over 24 years now, I have felt that I have to be supressed into not sharing my faith because those around me don't have the same beliefs I have.

I grew up in a Christian home, and have attended church for as long as I can remember. Our church has the word "mennonite" in it, although we do not follow the mennonite tradition anymore...I accepted Jesus Christ into my heart at the tender age of 4, with the help of my Grammy :) , and have been trying to live the Christian life since. I have had my ups and downs with what life has thrown at me. My mom has been a strong influence on my life since my father abandoned us a few years ago. Her faith and strength has shown through and she has been an excellent witness to others through these tough times.

It's hard living in this world when it seems like your morals and beliefs are put down everywhere you turn. But then I see the good things that God is doing in my life, and I have to remember to say a prayer of thanks. My favorite Bible verse is "In my anguish I cried out to the Lord, and He answered by setting me free. In my anguish I cried to the LORD, and He answered by setting me free. The Lord is with me; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?" Psalm 118:5-6

I actually started my journal with the title "The Road Less Traveled" because I wanted to share my experiences in life involving Christ. I will hopefully be able to do that in the weeks to come. I honestly put it off after that one thread became an attack....

annie_girl

07-26-2005, 01:48 PM

We did go to Sunday School (which makes me think we went to church every week?) but I don't remember much about it. My dad never attended

Sometimes, we would go to 9:00 mass, and mom would drop us off at Sunday school right after. Other times, she would drop us off at Sunday school, and then SHE would go to church while we were in Sunday School. My dad never attended either.

After high school, I went to (a Catholic) church about once every few years just because I had a desire to be in a church. I always believed in God, but that was about it. I went to a Catholic church because that was all I knew.

I had no desire to go to church in my 20's. I probably DID have the desire, but I just didn't realize that's what I was searching for. I had NO Christian influences in my life until I was 30. Strange, huh? Even when I was 16, I got a bible somewhere, and started reading it, and decided that year God was going to be my best friend. But I had no one to help me, no one to talk to about it, and I didn't know that there were other churches besides Catholic church (I mean, I should have known, I passed one every day when I went babysitting). I could have been a Christian when I was 16 and avoided the mess that was my 20's!!! But again, I am so incredibly happy with my life right now had it been any different in my 20's, boy would it be radically different now. So I'm glad I had to make mistakes to come to the point in my life where I am now.

but am so thankful that I had my "stupid" years because I know that my faith is real, not just something my parents taught me.

Me too!! Exactly what I was trying to say. :) I certainly had a lot of stupid years and my 20's sounds very similar to your story, I could have told my story much better saying what you said (sleeping around) rather than what I said (sex). I guess it's the same thing.... It just sounds awful the way I put it I think.

tbell

07-26-2005, 01:54 PM

I had no desire to go to church in my 20's. I probably DID have the desire, but I just didn't realize that's what I was searching for. I had NO Christian influences in my life until I was 30. Strange, huh? Even when I was 16, I got a bible somewhere, and started reading it, and decided that year God was going to be my best friend. But I had no one to help me, no one to talk to about it, and I didn't know that there were other churches besides Catholic church (I mean, I should have known, I passed one every day when I went babysitting). I could have been a Christian when I was 16 and avoided the mess that was my 20's!!! But again, I am so incredibly happy with my life right now had it been any different in my 20's, boy would it be radically different now. So I'm glad I had to make mistakes to come to the point in my life where I am now.

annie girl--I think this is awesome. I guess you take for granted growing up in a Christian household. To me, the decision to "come back" to the church was easy because it was familiar. I admire you for coming to the decision all on your own.

MrsSmith

07-26-2005, 01:55 PM

I got this from Christianitytoday.comAn e-prayer partnership grows a friendship despite busy schedules and geographic distance. Here's how it can bless your relationship with your friend—and with God:

Closeness. Several years pass between visits, but Linda and I are involved in each other's daily life. Even though our prayers are only a few sentences long, they hold pertinent concerns. Today's concerns. While I prepare dinner, I pray for the neighbors Linda invited to her house tonight. And tomorrow morning, I'll log on to see how it went.

Focus. Just as journaling a prayer provides clarity, so does composing an e-prayer. Written words help crystallize what we need from God: "Lord, you've always taken care of my needs. I ask for peace as I trust you to guide us in paying for this unexpected bill."

Writing out prayers—and God's responses—is also a good way to record his individual attention. Not only can we see a pattern of God's work in our life, but the entries also serve as reminders that our requests are with God. He holds them in his hand. How often we need that reminder!

At the beginning of each year, Linda and I send each other a list of the areas in our lives that need fine-tuning. Throughout the year, we save copies of our prayers as a record of how God worked. It's as easy as cutting and pasting from the e-mail message to a file in a word-processing program. By the end of the year, the electronic compilation is a clear testimony to God's faithfulness.

Accountability. The commitment to pray together builds accountability. As we remind each other of areas for growth and change through e-mail or instant messenger, we can make immediate course corrections. For example, one of my goals last year was to show grace to a friend with whom I had frequent conflicts. When a new conflict arose, I expressed my frustration both to God and Linda. Linda reminded me the conflict was an opportunity for God to help me grow and for him to be reflected through me. The next time I had an encounter with my difficult friend, instead of reacting, I paused, knowing I was upheld by Linda's prayer earlier in the week, "Please give Connie patience and love beyond her own."

Immediacy. E-mail provides immediate access, an opportunity for instant pleas. I often think of the missionaries 100 years ago and their urgent prayer requests in the midst of serious hardships. Their requests, sent by boat across the seas, sometimes took months to reach their faithful supporters. Today when my friends share requests, not only do I reply immediately with a word of encouragement but also with a prayer.

Chris'slady

07-26-2005, 01:57 PM

tbell should we were name tags tonight..... hehehe.:)

DiscoDiva

07-26-2005, 04:33 PM

No one in my family is a Christian anymore, which breaks my heart. Really, none of my friends are either. My sister and one of my close friends are very condescending about my faith, and it frustrates me that to a lot of people, Christians are perceived as stupid or deluded.
I know the feeling. But, I won't let them sway me either. If they want to make dumb comments about my faith, so be it. I know how much harder it can be to come to faith when you have a family of non-believers. I had nobody to raise me in faith, and I had to do searching on my own. In an odd way, I think God did that on purpose! I am so 'prove-it-to-me' stubborn, I probably would have rebelled if I had Christian parents. (I said earlier that my mom 'tried' to take us to church sometimes, but I don't think she is a Christian. I think she just went through the motions, just as her mother did.) I was really on my own in regards to religion.

My family knows I am a Christian, but I've never spoken the words to them. I know that sounds weird, but saying the words could alienate them. So, I live my life being the 'good' one in the family (their words, not mine). They know I will do the right thing, even if costs me in other ways or if it means I won't do what they do. Sometimes, I feel left out. :( But I do feel good knowing that I live my life to be a positive example for others. And, that when they need sound, ethical advice, they call me.

Question for all of you: I've heard different views from Christians on whether or not you will see your loved ones again in Heaven. One view says we will be reunited with those who have passed on before us. The other view says that since there is no negative or bad things in Heaven, that we aren't reunited with others, since it would bring up memories of negative things that happened on earth. What do you believe? Why? Do you have scripture to back your views?

isign

07-26-2005, 04:39 PM

I belive we will see each other again,but it won't be the same. I don't think we'll remember the bad things, only the good.

mrs_pell

07-26-2005, 05:21 PM

Disco, my grandfather was saved after watching Billy Graham on television. Now I know two people who have been saved as a result of a televangelist. :)

I am really enjoying seeing all these stories. They are all awesome stories (but Disco, gotta tell ya, your's gave me chills). It's amazing to see how God works in everyone's lives differently. My mom and I were talking last night about how God lets us go down the wrong paths sometimes (and even knows we're going to do it - talk about mind-boggling), but that He's so faithful to us in never leaving us and always "taking us back."

I do think that we will be reunited with our loved ones in Heaven (those that are in Heaven). I don't have anything off the top of my head that backs that up, though. Maybe it's just a hope! Because I can't wait to see my uncle and great grandparents!! :D

Elizabeth

07-26-2005, 05:29 PM

An interesting article on The Doctrine of Heaven (http://www.baptistpillar.com/bd0487.htm).

I believe that Heaven is a real place that exists in another dimension that humans don't have access to until death. I was going to say that it is a *spiritual* place, the state of being with God for all eternity, but I think it's a physical place too.

As far as painful memories... or even people we dislike... I've always thought that my perceptions would completely change when I got to Heaven... that I would no longer have any negative emotions period. We will just be overwhelmed with love for all eternity.

The concept of eternity scares me though. Is that weird? The thought of it going on forever and ever... I actually don't like to think of it because it makes me tired! I can't imagine being conscious for ever and ever. It seems like I would want it to stop eventually! But then I guess Heaven is so wonderful that we will want to be there forever!

it's a bug

07-26-2005, 06:36 PM

Hey gals! I'm joining in with my story...another one of those who doesn't have an exciting (so to speak) conversion story. I was 6 when I realized my need for Christ in my life. I toed the line most of my life because I was afraid of the consequences of doing sinful things. It's made things lots easier when I was tempted to do things I WANTED to do even though I knew they were wrong. Today I'm working at a non-denominational church as a preschool director where our 2 main goals are the teach children about Christ and to do it in a fun way. I want kids to have a good experience with church, just like I did, so they will come to know Christ early in their lives. It's awesome to work for a boss like God!

I'm looking forward to seeing more stories and discussion here! Thanks for all of them so far!

charliezangel

07-26-2005, 07:03 PM

Another Christian checking in...
I'm Renee, age 22...
I also grew up in a Christian household... I was baptized as a baby, was confirmed when I was in 6th grade (however old that would make me LOL) and I was an acolyte from age 11 'til I graduated from high school. I went to church every single Sunday.
I "became" a Christian when I was about 6 or so... and I was a good little Christian girl 'til I went off to college... I was a freshman when 9/11 hit and that *really* shook my faith... I think I went to church once or twice in the week that followed, but didn't go to a regular Sunday service 'til December '01...
I eventually failed out of college, moved to Texas (I was in Virginia) and began "living in sin" with my now-DH... It wasn't 'til a few months ago that I really began to turn back to God and I joined DH's church (which was also where we were married a year ago) on January 2, my birthday.

Except for the being baptized as a baby, our stories are freaking identical.

Elizabeth, I'd be happy to share my story. Both my parents are jewish. My mother was raised orthodox (kept kosher, always went to synagouge, didn't drive or turn the lights on on saturdays....), my father was raised fairly reformed. By the time they had met, they were not realy what you'd call practicing, so when they had my sister and I, we were basicly "holiday" jews (I know many Christians who are the same way). When I was 5, my parents divorced. My mother dated and eventually married the man who is my step-father and has raised me since i was 6. He was raised episcopal, but I don't think he was ever exposed to the "saved" concept. My Father dated and married the woman who is now my step-mother, and has also been around since I was 6. She was a born again "wild Child" and a practicing Seventh Day Adventist. I remember going to to visit my dad at her house when we were little. He lived in an RV on her lawn because she did not believe in living together before marriage. Before they married, my father began to study the bible and seek Gods place in his life. He eventually was "born again" and baptised in the SDA church. My mother and step-father were not interested, so the majority of my "christian" upbringing was in my father's home. When I was 8, my Father and Step-mother sent me a to a Christian camp called Camp Kulaqua (it is SDA run, and I went every summer after that till I was 17!!!). I came home from camp singing bible songs and thirsting for the word of God. My mother was freaked out, and relly didn't know what to do. My father prayed for us everyday that my mom and step-dad would find Jesus so that we would be raised in a Godly home. We started going to a unitarian church, a giant step for my mom, and eventualy found outselves in a messianic synagouge (Jews for Jesus) when I was 12. It didn't take much for my mom and step-dad to become believers as they had been searching so long for the "true" meaning of life. I however, despite my summers at camp, was "too cool" to become a "christian". I spent a few years avoiding "church" and making a fuss when my parents made me go. When I was 14, we moved into a neighboorhood where everyone went to church and all theird kids were bible totin, sunday school brats. i hated it, and it turned me off even more. There was a youth pastor who lived in our neighborhood and he invited me and my sister to go to his church one wednesday night. I was hooked. Here were all these cool teenagers who were christians, but were also normal kids. I joined the worship team and was having a ball. That summer we went to a youth conferance called "Aquire The Fire". There was a speaker there who used to be a gang member and did time in prison. He found God and became a prison minister for kids who had been in gangs. I figured, if God could save a man like that, it couldn't be THAT bad to be a Christian!!! I gave my life to Christ that day. I did a lot of "falling off the wagon" you might say in the years to come. It was my freshman year of college that knocked me off my feet and onto my butt. When 911 happened, I was so quick to run back to God, but it took alsmost a year after my grandfather's death to realize that God wasn't out to get me. DH (then BF) was the one to open my eyes to my need for God in my life. Since then I haven't looked back.

annie_girl

07-26-2005, 07:43 PM

tbell: annie girl--I think this is awesome. I guess you take for granted growing up in a Christian household. To me, the decision to "come back" to the church was easy because it was familiar. I admire you for coming to the decision all on your own.

Well I was born and raised as Catholic, so I learned a lot about GOD, but not much about Jesus. I don't know if they didn't teach me about it or if I was just so bored I didn't pay attention. :) So I did grow up with some religion. But after we stopped going when I was 11, after that I had no Christian influence in my life.....

charliezangel, I have done work for Compassion International at Aquire the Fire!!! I love those teen retreats!! (can't think of the names of any of the others I went to) I am an Event Facilitator for Compassion. That means I am volunteer, I don't get paid, but they fly me out to where ever they need me 4-5 times per year. I set up the booths, usually 5-6 of them at big teen events, co-ordinate the other volunteers (that volunteer for a 3 hour shift) and take care of all the child packets, etc etc. I love it. I absolutely would LOVE to do this full time. But for now 4-5 times per year is just wonderful. :)

saathei

07-26-2005, 09:48 PM

Will you all accept a Mormon? I know that some "regular" Christians feel very strongly about my church, but I believe in Jesus Christ, I go to church on Sundays, and I read and believe in the Bible, just like you do.

I was Presbyterian and then Methodist growing up, but I didn't really start taking an interest in religion for my own sake until I started dating DH (now my husband). I read the Book of Mormon (scripture peculiar to my church) first, and it really resonated with me. It made me want to go back and read the Bible (I had only thumbed through parts of it before).

It was such an exciting time - I had never been much for praying or reading scriptures or going to church, and all of a sudden this completely different world opened up to me! I can't imagine how I faced life before without God as the center of it.

I majored in Near Eastern Studies for my undergraduate, learning Hebrew, a bit of Greek, and some Syriac and Coptic (two languages used by ancient Christians in Palestine and Egypt, respectively). My senior thesis was on martyrs in the conversion of Armenia to Christianity. It was really interesting to compare those martyrs with other martyrs across the Roman empire to discover any possible trends.

Since graduation, God has shaped my life in so many unexpected and amazing ways! My twin daughters were born in April, and while the pregnancy was wrought with trials, there were also so many blessings that helped us through the difficult time. Originally I had been in a MA program for Linguistics, but I had a distinct impression while praying one night that I should consider special education instead. I never would have thought to do such a thing, but it turned out to be the only program I could do after the twins were born.

The most amazing example of God in my life recently was two months ago, at the end of May. I was home alone and I started hemmorrhaging severely, and I passed out while on my way to the phone. When I regained conciousness, though, I was thinking more clearly than I ever have in my life, and was able to call 911 and give them enough information so they could take me to the hospital. I know that without God's help that day, I probably wouldn't be here writing this.

Wow, I didn't mean to share my life story here, but I felt like I should share some of the miracles that have been in my life. :)

lady1297

07-27-2005, 04:07 AM

Hi all! I found this community this morning and while I'm not sure how comfortable I'll feel overall, I'm willing to join.

I say "how comfortable I'll feel" because I've had a lot of strained relationships with friends who are "born again" (should that be in quotes, I don't know). I'm Roman Catholic. Born and raised. My mom is Roman Catholic and my dad is Lutheran, Eastern Synod. We were raised to respect other's religions since my dad is not Catholic, but we were also raised in the old school Catholic tradition that Catholisism is the "true religion". And it is hard, then, for me to understand "born again" and other people's "faith journeys". I guess it's mostly because God and Jesus have alwayss been a HUGE part of my life. I find it hard to realize some don't have this blessing.

I was baptised as an infant, had my first reconciliation and first communion in 2nd grade, confirmed in 8th grade and DH (also Catholic) were sacramentally married in the Church. I have a special devotion with the Virgin Mary. She has helped me become much closer to her son by providing me with a starting point when I have requests. She has been my companion over the years as I became/become closer to her son. I felt particularly close to her once I found out I was pregnant and as I work through being a mother to a little boy. I often have the thought "Mary saw Jesus at this age, doing these things, how blessed she is". My little family has a what we feel is a special relationship with the blessed family and strongly feel that they (St. Joseph, The Blessed Mother) are our role models.

I've had my share of rocky moments. My relationship with my DH wasn't always as "sacred" as I wanted. We did things that part of me now regret in some ways. I've been to confession about my past sins, but still carry around a guilt that I just can't shake. It's a difficult thing for me to deal with. I love my DH so much and don't really regret what we did because it made us who we are now, and it's hard to feel guilty about something that we activly chose to do. But then again, it wasn't the right decision from our faith's perspective. So it's got my conscience in a canundrum that has been occuring for several years. My DH has a past that is less than wonderful which is sad for me to think about.

As for the question posted earlier, about seeing our family and friends in heaven. I believe that we will, just in a different light. It won't bee a physical reunion per se. Rather a feeling of goodness that we had when we were in their presence that will return. My fear, though, is that those I love most dearly will not be there (or that I myself will not be).

BethElena

07-27-2005, 05:36 AM

Question for all of you: I've heard different views from Christians on whether or not you will see your loved ones again in Heaven. One view says we will be reunited with those who have passed on before us. The other view says that since there is no negative or bad things in Heaven, that we aren't reunited with others, since it would bring up memories of negative things that happened on earth. What do you believe? Why? Do you have scripture to back your views?

I believe we will be too busy worshiping God to even notice. I imagine Christians in Heaven worshiping our Lord and Savior day in and day out. I don't think we will be searching for lost loved ones, just worshiping together.

isign

07-27-2005, 07:26 AM

Will you all accept a Mormon? I know that some "regular" Christians feel very strongly about my church, but I believe in Jesus Christ, I go to church on Sundays, and I read and believe in the Bible, just like you do.

I know I've said it before as well as others, it doesn't matter what your 'religon' title is, Baptist, Morman, Lutheran, what matters is that you belive 3 things, 1 Jesus is the Son of God 2 - died for sins of all people, and 3 rose from the dead. The only way to get to heaven is by accepting him as your Lord and Savior, or as some put it, asking God in to your heart, and being Born again.

Actually except for those saying their catholic, I don't think everyone's identified themselves as far as what denomination they are. I am Baptist, but I prefer to say my Faith, not religon is Christian.

ag-girl

07-27-2005, 08:22 AM

I am to glad to have found this thread...kind of in a strange spot though!

Thanks all for sharing your amazing stories!

Here is the short version of my life story. I was baptized in the Lutheran church as a baby, although my parents and I never really attended church growing up. My dad believes church is for hypocrites and I would say my mom does believe in God but it's not something we ever really talked about much. I had always considered myself a christian, but to know now what living the Christian life is all about....I had no clue. In college, I did the whole party scene to an extent and got involved in a bad relationship. During this time I attended a Passions conference with a strong christian friend from hs....I broke down there and dedicated my life to Christ in 1999. After that it was still hills and valleys, but I finally came around and I know God had is hand on me at all times. DH and I were baptized in September of 2002, have been attending church and making christian friends in our small church home group.

I know what it is like to go through trials with God and without.....I just can't imagine how people do it throughout there whole lives without Him. I am so joyful now that I have Christ in my life.

The concept of eternity scares me though. Is that weird? The thought of it going on forever and ever... I actually don't like to think of it because it makes me tired! I can't imagine being conscious for ever and ever. It seems like I would want it to stop eventually! But then I guess Heaven is so wonderful that we will want to be there forever!

Not weird at all. I myself have a hard time grasping ETERNITY. I try not to think about it...not that it won't be wonderful, but it's still a hard concept to grasp.

ag-girl

07-27-2005, 08:23 AM

Okay, sorry all. Obviously I didn't 'quote' correctly. Any tips?

annie_girl

07-27-2005, 08:43 AM

I don't know what's up with that quote! :)

As for Mormons and Catholics, I don't know exactly what Mormons believe. But like someone else said, if you believe that Jesus Christ is fully God, and fully man, died for our sins, was ressurrected, etc etc etc, then you are under the umbrella Christian.

I know Catholics believe in Jesus, but I also totally understand why a Catholic says they are "Catholic" rather than "Christian". Catholics are Christians. Baptists are Christians. Christian is the big umbrella, and I completely understand why people use denominations rather than just all encompasing "Christian".

Just like an American living in America will not say to another American, "I'm American" They will say "I'm Floridian" or something. In Florida though, I wouldn't necessarily say "I'm Floridian" I'd have to say I'm in SW FL or more specifically, Fort Myers. Because I'm in Fort Myers, it's obvious that I'm in Florida and that I'm in America. That's how I feel about denominations. If you say "I'm Catholic" It's already obvious to me that you are Christian. For me, I have no denomination, so I just say I am Christian. If asked about my church, I will say "I go to Calvary Chapel, it's non-denominational."

(of course there are people who say they are Catholic/Christian/Baptist etc and don't believe in the bible or anything, but for the sake of discussion I am not talking about them. Just like there are people who live in Fort Myers FL and are obviously currently in America but they are not American, they just live here. KWIM?)

lady1297

07-27-2005, 08:50 AM

I identify myself as Catholic because the church, the Catholic church is part of my identity. It is a Christian church, yes, but it has enough difference from many other churches that I feel it is important to mention my background. It helps explain why I say things like my devotion to Mary. Many other religions don't have that devotion, so it helps explain things when I say I'm Catholic. And as I stated, it is a big part of my identity just as being an American, a woman and a mom is. :) It's just me! :D

ShannonGH

07-27-2005, 04:10 PM

I'd love to join! I've been reading all of your stories and they've all been so moving. Here's mine (probably not so moving ;) )-

I was born and raised in a Catholic Church and come from a HUGE Catholic family (both sides). I attended Catholic school K-12 grades. Attended church every sunday but never felt a strong connection to my church...kinda like I was going through the motions. Fast forward to when Dh and I were dating and we had the "religion talk." Dh is non-denom Christian and straight out told me that he would never become Catholic. After I got over the initial blow (I was crushed because I felt that "Catholic" was part of my identity and my family's identity), I became open to finding a church together. So up until 3 months ago we had been "church shopping." We probably attended 10 different churches looking for a right fit. Well we finally found OUR church (Covenant Church) and it is the first time ever that I've looked forward to going to church on Sunday morning. You just walk in to this place and you feel the energy from it's members and their love for the Lord. It's *such* a wonderful place to be and I'm so glad we found it.

Elizabeth

07-27-2005, 04:14 PM

I don't want to single anyone or any religion out, but suffice it to say that I posted the Apostle's Creed as a lithmus test. I don't want to exclude anyone, but people that believe that confession of faith is what I mean why I say "Christian." However, I did open the forum up to inquisitors, and we will welcome with open arms anyone who doesn't share our beliefs - and we will share with you the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

lawyerlee

07-27-2005, 04:31 PM

I'm not entirely sure I belong here, but I spent my entire childhood reciting the Apostle's Creed in my United Methodist Church. So at least I know I fit to that extent. ;)

I'm not sure how much I have in common with a lot of you because for one thing, I'm a liberal Christian. For another, I don't attend any church services and haven't for the past eight years or so. It is something I'll probably get back to fairly soon, but I'm searching a bit for the right fit. I'm having a bit of a "crisis of faith" with respect to my denomination. I've always been a Methodist and been comfortable in that setting. But recently the United Methodist leadership took a stance on gay marriage that offends and saddens me. So now that I'm ready to go back, I'm not sure if it is the right fit for me. I'm currently trying to decide if I'd like to go to a denomination like Unitarian, which is accepting of everyone, or stick with my denomination and try to encourage a change in policy.

I was raised in the church. My grandmother was raised a United Methodist and she and my grandfather were married at our church. Then she transferred to my grandfather's church. She always said that she changed her religion for him, but she wasn't going to change her politics. ;) (And I guess I'm a lot like her. :D )My mom was raised in that same United Methodist church, so, coincidentally, my parents were married there, too. My brother and I went to Sunday School and church there until we went to college. I was very active, too. As a child, I attended Bible School, participated in the Christmas and Easter programs, and did baby-sitting in the nursery. As a junior high and high school student, I helped lead youth group and Bible School, did tons of fundraisers, participated in a regional camp-like program where I met some of the most awesome friends, and was a member of the church administrative committee as a youth representative.

Cliff and I were married by a Methodist minister, because that was really important to me. But that's the extent of our recent contact with the church.

It is a little weird that I don't do anything now. But I do know what's in my heart, and I know that Cliff and I share similar beliefs, which is really important to me. :)

Elizabeth

07-27-2005, 04:34 PM

Just to clarify, I don't mean that you recite the Apostle's Creed every Sunday or even that you've heard of it before! I just wanted to use it because it is a statement of beliefs that encompasses both Protestants and Catholics.

TX Sweetheart

07-27-2005, 04:48 PM

To answer isign's question or whatever LOL: I grew up Episcopalian and now am Methodist...

lawyerlee

07-27-2005, 04:51 PM

Elizabeth

07-27-2005, 04:51 PM

I have a couple of prayer requests:

That my mom can successfully quit smoking, and that God will heal her from her mood disorder.

That my friend Maria passes the bar. (She's already failed once and she's been studying her little heart out.)

Any more?

Elizabeth

07-27-2005, 04:54 PM

You're right, I totally misread it! :o

But I did think that was an impt. clarification to make anyway! :D

mrs_pell

07-27-2005, 05:13 PM

I grew up (and still am) a Baptist. I was in a General Baptist church all through school, and now am attending a Southern Baptist church. Don't ask me all the differences, because I really don't know. All I know is that they believe the same way that I do, and that I love the church. That's all that matters to me! :)

I don't really have any prayer requests that I want to post right now, but I do have a praise!! I sent out an email at work the other day to see if anyone would be interested in doing a Beth Moore Bible study. 14 of us will be starting it in 2 weeks!! :) I'm a bit overwhelmed, since it's a larger group than what I anticipated, but I'm so excited about it!

lawyerlee

07-27-2005, 05:18 PM

I love the idea of sharing our prayer requests. I would just ask that you keep me and my family in your thoughts while we mourn the loss of my grandmother. Her funeral was on Monday, and I'm still pretty out of sorts. :(

Elizabeth

07-27-2005, 05:24 PM

Mrs. Pell Praise God! I would be terrified to publicize my faith like that in my workplace. Sharing my faith (both in word and in deed) is something I need to work on. You go girl!

Lawyerlee I'm really sorry to hear about the loss of your grandmother. You and your family will be in my prayers.

mrs_pell

07-27-2005, 05:27 PM

Praise God! I would be terrified to publicize my faith like that in my workplace. Sharing my faith (both in word and in deed) is something I need to work on. You go girl!

You know, it's something I've always had a problem with, too. But, there are several people that I knew would be interested in, just from knowing them. So, I think that made it easier.

I will keep your mom and Diana's family in my prayers.

ShannonGH

07-27-2005, 05:31 PM

Lord I pray that you give Elizabeth's mom and my husband the strength and guidance to quit smoking (Dh quit 10 days ago). Please be with them during this very trying time.

Lord I also pray that you give my doctors the knowledge and guidance to diagnose and treat this fluid in my abdomen that has everyone baffled. Lord please also keep this baby that is growing inside of me safe. In Jesus's name I pray. Amen.

ShannonGH

07-27-2005, 05:41 PM

I have to share this with you ladies...
I recently sold a flat screen monitor on ebay to a man in TX. He emails me today and said that the monitor was not in "new condition" as stated in the description...evidently there were 2 pixels that were "blown." I honestly had no idea because we had received the monitor as a gift from my Dh's work and had never even taken it out of the box. So I immediately apologize and refund his money in order for him to return it to me. So he just replied today with this:
"You know what, you are a good person. You must be a Christian. :)
Thank you for your kindness, sorry we couldn’t work it out."

Was that not the coolest email?!? That just made me smile so I wanted to share. :)

mrs_pell

07-27-2005, 05:51 PM

Shannon, that's hysterical! I'm sure it did make you smile! :)

annie_girl

07-27-2005, 07:12 PM

Shannon, I don't know that we ever really crossed paths over on "the place that shall not be named", did we? But did you know that we are birthday twins?!?!?!?!? :D

(ok maybe not twins because I'm sure it was different years, but same birthday!)

ETA: wow all this Catholic/Christianity talk on this page, those two words in particular, and we have two mentions of quiting smoking, and all the ads on the page are for that. :) Bizarro. Maybe that will change with the next click though. I never pay attention to ads, don't know why I even looked that time! :)

Atlanta_eBride

07-27-2005, 08:07 PM

OK, I'm finally subscribing/joining too.

My immediate family didn't really go to church. Luckily, for me, both of my grandmothers cared enough to make sure I was at least exposed to religon. I more or less grew up Southern Baptist, going to VBS and some church when I visited my mom's mom. In high school I got involved in a group called Young Life. Despite the fact I ran around with a pretty wild crowd I really got into this non-demoinational Christian group.

During one of our meetings (we met once a week at different people's house - about 50 or more kids) the leader/counselor passed out styrofoam cups. Using them as a metaphor of having the cup in the upright position and letting yourself be filled by the Word and Jesus. While the cup upside down represented no way to enter the cup. I took mine home and placed it on its side. I really had no home influence on religion and was searching. By this time I was alone living with my father who to this day is agnostic.

So, I went on a weekend retreat type thing to a Young Life camp in NC. I was so filled by the Spirit that it was trully the moment I was saved. When I went back home I went straight for my styrofoam cup and turned it up. I still have that cup.

For many years I realized that I was seaking more and more of a conservative approach to religion. I went to Methodist, Presbyterian (really involved), Episcopalian, Moravian, you name it, I kept searching for where I "fit." Two years ago I went through RICA and officially became Catholic. More than anything for me I'm a Christian and it's how I treat my relationship with God that is most important.

DiscoDiva

07-28-2005, 08:19 AM

A few prayer requests:

Pray for my grandma. My grandpa died suddenly, of cancer, about 3 weeks ago. Pray for grandma that she is okay and has friends and family with her so she isn't lonely.

Prayers for me, please. I am really struggling with something right now and I really need help getting through it. Prayers to send me strength and support will be greatly appreciated!

ShannonGH

07-28-2005, 09:03 AM

annie_girl, no I had no idea we were bday twins! I was born in 77, how about you?

annie_girl

07-28-2005, 12:50 PM

DISCO I will definitely be praying for your grandmother, and also for you as you are struggling.....

Shannon, I was born in '70. :)

Please pray for me and my group, I/we are traveling to Ecuador tomorrow (I'm in Miami right now getting ready to meet the group this evening) for 10 days for a mission trip!! I will be meeting my sponsored child, but also visiting the projects and getting a first hand view of how Compassion works. Second half of my trip involves meeting up with a full time missionary down there (I have met her before) and staying with her for a week, working with her. It will be a busy and exciting week, but unlike all my other mission trips, I won't be doing strenuous work (building schools or other buildings). I am really hoping my fluency in spanish improves! :)

TX Sweetheart

07-28-2005, 12:54 PM

A small prayer request for this weekend (Fri-Sun)... Tomorrow (Friday) is my/DH's 1-year wedding anniversary and we're going out of town for the weekend... just pray that a) we get to and from places safely and b) this trip is better than our honeymoon :p Our honeymoon was not the best, to say the least. But WE planned our honeymoon (which we learned we're not too good at) and MIL planned this trip (she planned our wedding which we loved, so we know she's good LOL)

Elizabeth

07-28-2005, 04:54 PM

AnnieGirl I will say a special prayer for you and your group as you do your missionary work in Ecuador! I'm impressed! May God guide you, give you safe travels, and may he bless you to be a blessing to all you encounter.

ShannonGH

07-29-2005, 05:45 AM

Amen, Elizabeth. :)

What wonderful mission work you are doing AnnieGirl . May God Bless you and keep both you and TX Sweetheart safe as you both travel.

guinevere

07-29-2005, 06:10 AM

deleted

BethElena

07-29-2005, 07:43 AM

Wow! I didn't realize how many Christians were on the boards!

I really never grew up knowing the apostle's creed, because around here it's said more in Lutheran churchs, and I wasn't raised in one.

But anyway, I will keep you ladies in my prayers who have asked for it! I know how exciting and yet sometimes scary missionary work can be. My Aunt has been a missionary in Philadelphia for I think over 40 years now, and we constantly keep her in our prayers. She lives near Kensington, and walks to St. Christopher's on Fri & Sat nights (she's an ER nurse) by herself, which is scary enough! During the week she works at a place that helps with reading, sewing, and various other things that children do not get from the public school system...

When I was in high school, I helped at a camp in Mississippi, and have many valuable experiences from there! I was able to get a children's bible for one of my little campers, and help console another child who was having a hard time dealing with a cousin who passed on who looked like me (I'll tell you, the Lord does work in mysterious ways!) The whole missions trip was a real eye opener on how important it is to share the Love of Jesus with others!

I do ask for a prayer request myself - I ran into the mother of a friend of mine who passed away at the age of 24. She is really struggling with this. Please keep "E" in your prayers.

isign

07-29-2005, 08:05 AM

Beth - where in Mississippi did you work?

amew

07-29-2005, 08:16 AM

Can I follow along?

My situation is essentially identical to lawyerlee's: I was raised in the United Methodist Church and married in the Methodist Church by my childhood minister, but I have struggled with finding the right church for me over the past several years, due in large part to my more liberal views on things like women's rights and gay marriage (and made harder by the fact that I moved constantly for college, law school, jobs, etc). We have toyed with the idea of attending a Unitarian church (at the suggestion of the Methodist minister who married us) and have also attended several Methodist and Presbyterian churches in search of a place where we feel comfortable. We are hoping to find a church we love soon.

I believe in the Apostle's Creed (which we recited weekly in my church growing up) and define myself Christian, so I guess I fit here. I am also interested in religion in general and enjoy reading about other's beliefs and faiths.

katmg

07-29-2005, 10:29 AM

I want to join as well please.

I was raised in the Methodist church and became a Christian when I was 5. (Although, I don't think I really knew what it meant, I just wanted the little white Bible they were handing out) :o I went to Christian camp every summer and I think that helped solidfy my faith more.

DH and I have had a hard time finding a church together. When I lived more "in-town" I had a church that I really liked - we got married there. The church we got married in is rather far away from our house and makes it difficult to go there now. We weren't all that wild about the Methodist church near our house. He grew up Lutheran but I have some doctrinal (Is that a word?) issues with the Lutheran church regarding communion so that won't really work. I'm really feeling a need to have the church in my life, I'm just finding it difficult to find one that works for us. (Amew - our situations sound pretty similar, huh?)

Would y'all please pray that we are able to find a church? Thank you!

honeygirl

07-29-2005, 10:46 AM

I've been too busy posting in all the social work threads to get over here :) But I too am a Christian, and like many of you have been for the majority of my life. I accepted Christ into my heart at age 5. I was blessed to have been raised by strong Christian parents who provide a great example.

However, my road was a little bumpy :) I think it is difficult is some ways to grow up as a Christian b/c you don't feel the enormous grace of God's sacrifice at age 5, and then can take it for granted. KWIM? So I went through a rebellious stage in college and was very unhappy at the time. Fortunately I got connected with a great church when I moved to Hawaii for grad school and was able to use my years there to heal from emotional wounds and to grow close to God.

My DH and I are currently attending a non-deominational church, but in the past I mostly attended Foursquare churches. We're also going to a co-ed small group together every friday night.

katmg

07-29-2005, 11:36 AM

honeygirl - My best friend and I talk about that a lot - the fact that we both accepted Christ early in life and how that affects our life as a Christian. You don't have that "high" as much as people who found God later in life. It's more about sustaining, maintaining and increasing your relationship with God - very difficult for me to do all the time. I wonder if I don't take it for granted more, since I've practically always had God in my life. I don't know the feeling of not having that comfort and then having it. Strange...

Not sure if this makes sense to anyone else...just rambling.

Elizabeth

07-29-2005, 01:11 PM

I think it is difficult is some ways to grow up as a Christian b/c you don't feel the enormous grace of God's sacrifice at age 5, and then can take it for granted. KWIM?

Honeygirl and Katmg That totally makes sense to me. I think in one sense we have the advantage of having known Christ all our lives, and in most cases having been raised by a Christian family, but we have a disadvantage in that we don't know what life was like without God, so we can't harken back to a "Road to Damascus"-type experience. (I.e. I was so lost without God and I was a sinner and when I accepted Christ everything changed and I was filled with this joy...)

It's more about sustaining, maintaining and increasing your relationship with God

ITA. It's about staying "on fire for God." I guess you can compare our agape love to eros love. Adult conversions are more infatuated and "in-love" with God - a more passionate, intense feeling. People that have known Jesus longer have more of a slow-burn, warm, contented intimacy like that of an ideal marriage. So like marriage, we must work to keep the passion alive, and keep our faith front-of-mind. To stretch the analogy way too far, when you first fell in love w/ your man, you couldn't get him off your mind. Now that you're married, it's not quite the same. Same thing with new Christians.

I have several friends that are "adult conversions" - and I find that there is a totally different (totally wonderful!) dynamic there.

ETA - It also makes it difficult for me to identify with the "born again" experience.

BethElena

07-29-2005, 01:30 PM

Beth - where in Mississippi did you work?

We got off the train in Meridian, and worked at a camp called Pine Grove I believe...i will have to check my notes tonight....

katmg

07-29-2005, 02:10 PM

Elizabeth - I'm so glad you made the comparison to marriage. I was going to but I thought it might come out weird. The way you phrased it makes perfect sense.

Sooo...How do you maintain your relationship? What keeps you "on fire for God?" I have to admit I feel like a cheeseball writing that sentence.

lady1297

07-29-2005, 02:16 PM

...How do you maintain your relationship? What keeps you "on fire for God?"

Good question. For me, as a long-time Christian, it's not easy. Retreats are a great help but I don't get to go on them very much anymore. Church on Sunday, every Sunday, grounds me, even though right now I'm more distracted by my 1 year old. But the community makes me feel recharged. I do want to start studying the Bible. As a Catholic, I never felt real encouraged to do that as much as other Christians have, I think. So, I'm hoping if and when I get that started, I'll feel more "on fire for God". So, where to start, where to start....

Elizabeth

07-29-2005, 03:15 PM

...How do you maintain your relationship? What keeps you "on fire for God?"

For me it's going to a church (I'm fortunate to love my church), singing praise songs (especially the ones I like :D ) and hearing a great sermon.

Going on retreats, especially to the mountains.

Reading the Bible or theology books like C.S. Lewis.

Praying/talking/Bible Study with my Christian friends.

But the absolute best for me personally is to go to someplace beautiful. Yosemite is a big one for me, the beach ... the more awe-inspiring the better. That way I can be amazed by how the God that made such awesome creations is the same God that loves me!

When I was in youth group in h.s., I had a great youth leader. He was wonderful on the guitar. I remember going to retreats at the beach with the youth group, and sitting on the sand in a circle around Dave, singing beautiful praise songs with my really good friends. Those are some of the happiest moments of my life. He would tell us that what we were doing was a preview of Heaven - we will be worshiping God for all eternity. I miss Dave and all my youth group friends a lot, so I like to imagine that in Heaven we will all be reunited, and we can get together on a beach and sing praise songs again. Maybe there will be beaches in Heaven? They're so beautiful it seems like there would have to be!

ptrecluse

07-29-2005, 03:30 PM

I'm also a Christian. I will try and post my story later.

Lawyerlee - I went to a Church for several years that is just what you described. Here is the main Church's web site, www.disciples.org . They have woman pastors. I left the specific one I was going to because the pastor got very ill and the new pastor made so many changes that it no longer felt like home.

ag-girl

07-29-2005, 03:34 PM

...How do you maintain your relationship? What keeps you "on fire for God?" [SIZE=1]

Our church is all about presentation....it's almost like going to a rock concert and our pastor is incredible too! This makes it exciting and relevant to our lives.

Also, I've been bad about it lately, but doing daily quiet times help keep me focused. Women's bible studies are great, as is our small church group we meet with outside of church.

ETA: I wanted to recommend a wonderful book....Calm My Anxious Heart by Linda Dillow. You can do it in a group or on your own, there are questions in the back. I think it's great!

Atlanta_eBride

07-29-2005, 05:38 PM

...How do you maintain your relationship? What keeps you "on fire for God?"

Like a marriage, my feelings are stonger at times than at others. For me I listen to music to help keep that fire lit and I use church as a source to focus. I'm lucky enough to have someone in my life (FH) that wants to go to church and share worship together - that trully helps.

ptrecluse

07-29-2005, 05:45 PM

Hi may I join?

I didn't grow up in a spiritual home, step-mom is Catholic and made us go on holidays except my dad (strange). He isn't any religion although I believe is does believe in God not sure he knows Jesus though.

In 6th grade step-mom got in into her head that we needed to go to a private school because one of my dad's colleagues sent his daughter to a one. So she enrolled my older sister first and then sent me in Jr High. It turned out to be a Baptist school that went from K-12 with around 100 kids total in it. At first I hated it; we had to wear dress everyday with hose or socks, no mini skirts and attend chapel every morning. I was not a happy camper. I wasn’t a happy kid in general. After my mother died I was so angry, at everyone and everything. Having step-mom send me hear just seemed like a nightmare. I was flunking all my classes and had to stay after everyday to make up the homework and test that I hadn’t done or received an F on. For an angry child this wasn’t the key to happiness but it was a path that led me to Jesus. After a full year of this my main 7th grade teacher took my aside during one of my afternoon study sessions she finally reached out to me and helped me to understand my mothers death.

She led me to Christ that day, I believe I was 12. It was strange because suddenly my grades shoot up and I was happier (as long as I was at school). I think my happiness made step-mom made because at about the same time she started using me as her own personal punching bag. We left the area when I was 15 but I still tried to maintain my faith and went to church as soon as I received my driver’s license. College came and so did all my anger and pain from step-moms abuse. Needless to say I wasn’t very Christian like in college.

Several years later I found myself pregnant and facing a strange pregnancy because some test came back that my baby my be born with down syndrome or other neural defects. I was so blown away and everyone in my family immediately said “Have an abortion” but deep down inside I just couldn’t imagine doing living with myself after that. Even my doctor was pro do it (I guess my afp test were really low). I decided to have an amnio done and waited forever (at least it seemed like it) to find out my little girl was absolutely perfect. This brought me to my knees and so did my little one.

I have tried to be faithful to God ever since and I know that my life isn’t the perfect testimony. I take DD to church, VBS ended today. She loves the Lord and is truly a gift from God. Lately, I have been struggling because FH (we never married) is so incredible negative. He puts down everything Christian, everything that has to do with Church and it is starting to rub off on me. DD attends a Christian summer day camp and goes to Sunday school. I try to keep her from the effects of the negativity in our home by reading the Bible to her everyday and playing only Christian music in our house. But right now it is hard to stay focused on God when I have to sneak out to church to afford hearing about how dumb church is and other negative things.

Anyways, If you read this far thank you

I'm very sorry this ended up so long

DiscoDiva

07-29-2005, 06:35 PM

ptrecluse, how are you able to be with a FH who mocks your faith? I can understand being with someone of no faith, or someone who is unsure of their faith, but to mock it..... That must be very tough. :( Though my DH is not strong in his faith, he would never dream of mocking mine!

Elizabeth

07-30-2005, 10:39 AM

Lately, I have been struggling because FH (we never married) is so incredible negative. He puts down everything Christian, everything that has to do with Church and it is starting to rub off on me. DD attends a Christian summer day camp and goes to Sunday school. I try to keep her from the effects of the negativity in our home by reading the Bible to her everyday and playing only Christian music in our house. But right now it is hard to stay focused on God when I have to sneak out to church to afford hearing about how dumb church is and other negative things.

ptrecluse - I know I don't know anything about your story except what you've just shared, and I know this is easier said than done, but my first impulse when I read this was to say RUN AWAY from this man!

Not being a Christian is one thing, but mocking you - for ANYTHING - is not okay. I would not only be concerned about how he treats you, but what type of man he is that he thinks it's okay to behave like that. What else is he is going to criticize you for? Why is he so negative against Christianity?

I know you didn't ask for that, I'm sorry. But you mentioned that you "never married" ... is there a story there that you'd be willing to share?

Hugs.

ptrecluse

07-30-2005, 04:14 PM

RUN AWAY, so many friends and family have said this. It's easier said than done when you have a kid. He hasn't always been like this but has gotten really bad lately. He isn't a bad guy and he is a "Christian" because he was raised Catholic (not putting it down at all). We used to go to church as a family but he resented me getting involved and being an active member of the church. I taught Sunday school for a few sessions. Tomorrow we may try to get to a Calvary Chapel that isn't to far from us if it starts after he leaves for work. How lame is that, that we have to plan for him to leave to go, ugh it annoys me. Sorry.

I can't really go into anything right now because DD keeps coming over. FH is at work right now and DD are going to go to see a musical that is in town and I really need to shower since I spent the whole day cleaning and now feel icky.

BethElena

08-01-2005, 01:34 PM

ptrecluse - I will definitely be praying for you and your daughter. I know that I would have a hard time in your shoes right now. I will pray that Jesus will soften your FH's heart....

MrsSmith

08-01-2005, 04:17 PM

Disco, you're in my prayers.

TX sweetheart Happy belated anniversary!

jenji

08-02-2005, 02:13 PM

hi there! another Christian here! I'm so delighted to find you all here. I have to thank BethElena for telling me about this group

I was raised in a strong Christian family. I have gone to church my whole life (minus the first couple weeks) 3 times a week and I don't know what I'd do without my church family. My dad was in the air force when I was younger, so we moved occasionally and every time we did, the first thing we did was find a church home. My parents have been wonderful Christian examples and continue to grow, for which I'm thankful.
I made the decision to become a Christian when I was 12. I confessed Christ as my savior and put him on in baptism 2 days after my 12th birthday. It was THE happiest day of my life.
In high school I took a world religions class that studied NUMEROUS religions throughout the world and it was the first time I learned much about other faiths. I had even more questions than ever and through lots of searching and praying, my faith became even stronger. In college I had a great group of Christian friends and I know that they saved me from getting into too much trouble because I also had a lot of friends that were pulling me hard in another direction.

My senior year in high school I met DH at church when he moved here to go to college. we became friends the next year when I was in college too and were great friends for 4 years before we started dating. we were married at our church 2 years later.
Both of our families (parents and grandparents) are strong Christians, but our siblings aren't really and that's something that really breaks our hearts.

I guess that's the story of me. I have to say though that as much as I've studied and loved God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit to this point in my life, nothing has helped me grow like marriage. It's amazing to have a partner who encourages me and who I encourage to be better each day and to study and pray with. we have several Christian couples we are close with and we all just help each other grow so much

I guess I should stop before I fill up a whole page by myself

DiscoDiva

08-02-2005, 03:13 PM

Welcome jenji!!

Question for all of you: I've heard different views from Christians on whether or not you will see your loved ones again in Heaven. One view says we will be reunited with those who have passed on before us. The other view says that since there is no negative or bad things in Heaven, that we aren't reunited with others, since it would bring up memories of negative things that happened on earth. What do you believe? Why? Do you have scripture to back your views? (I posted this a few pages back at the end of a post, but I don't think anyone saw it)

katmg

08-02-2005, 05:42 PM

Disco - I missed this question before. I'm definitely torn on this one. If I think logically, and base my answer solely on scripture and theological study, I would say probably not. However, if I base it on what's in my heart, I want to believe that I will "see" or be with my loved ones again. I would love to believe that my brother and grandparents are together in heaven, rejoicing together.

One thing that sticks in my mind, and this may be silly, is what happens to widows/widowers who remarry? Who do they get to "hang out with" in heaven? Is it the person they first married or is it the last person they married? It all seems very complicated. Plus, if I'm able to see my grandparents but they're hanging out with their grandparents as well, isn't that a whole lotta people "hanging out" together? What about my good friends - do they not count? It brings on a whole 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon in heaven type thing.

Perhaps we're not meant to understand. My logical thinking about how could we all be with the people we love? How would that work? Why does it have to work like it works on Earth? Maybe I'm applying too many Earthly rules to something that is not bound by those rules.

Obviously, I have my conflictions on this topic. I'm interested to hear what others have to say.

DiscoDiva

08-02-2005, 05:52 PM

Rico'sAlice

08-02-2005, 11:54 PM

One thing that sticks in my mind, and this may be silly, is what happens to widows/widowers who remarry? Who do they get to "hang out with" in heaven? Is it the person they first married or is it the last person they married? It all seems very complicated.
Not a silly question at all. The Sadducees asked Jesus something similar concerning the resurrection. Perhaps the answer will help this discussion.

Matthew 22:23-33 (New International Version)
23That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24"Teacher," they said, "Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27Finally, the woman died. 28Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?"
29Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
33When the crowds heard this, they were astonished at his teaching.

BethElena

08-03-2005, 05:32 AM

hey jenji! good to see you found this thread. I wish it was more prominent, because you kind of have to dig to find it! :)

DiscoDiva: I think I answered you a few pages back. I believe I said something to the effect of we will all be too busy praising the Lord our Father to be looking for loved ones. I can only image what it will be like to stand in His presence for eternity.....

I do have this really cute plaque at home that says "I hope your mansion in Heaven is next to mine" that my cousin gave to me...

I do have a prayer request. With our impending wedding, it feels like there is a whole lot of stress in our lives right now. I ask that you girls keep me and Ben in your prayers. There has been too much un-needed arguing, and Ben just seems miserable all the time now. I think he just is stressed out. i left him a little prayer note this morning that said I was thinking of him.

jenji

08-03-2005, 06:06 AM

BethElena - I will be praying for you. Before DH and I got married for about the last month we were both stressed out with him finishing up his masters, me going through tax season at an accounting firm and our wedding coming up we were constantly at each other's throats. I briefly thought maybe we shouldn't be getting married, but as soon as the wedding day rolled around, it all melted away and we had 2 blissfully happy weeks together and with only each other and that did wonders to wipe away the memories of the stress and arguements.
it'll all be ok!

DiscoDiva

08-03-2005, 07:43 AM

BethElena, I just said a prayer for you.

28Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?" 29Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.
Thank you so much for this! So, once in Heaven, if I see my ex husband and my current husband, I won't 'know' them as husbands, but as people I love. The marriage part won't enter into the picture.

This answers the marriage part of the question, but what about seeing others you love, such as your parents or siblings?

BethElena

08-03-2005, 08:08 AM

Thanks DD & jenji - i really appreciate that!

Atlanta_eBride

08-03-2005, 09:23 AM

BethElena, you're both in my prayers. I know it's stressful but it will be sooooo worth it. BTW, the prayer note was a great idea and very sweet.

ptrecluse

08-03-2005, 12:30 PM

Answer: I think that we will see and know our loved ones in Heaven but I think that we will be worshipping and praising God as we stand in His glory.

I love the Mercy Me song "I Can Only Imagine".

Thanks for your prayers. This week has been tough since FH hasn't spoken to me since Sunday. He is mad at me because DD loved the play I took her to see and she liked it better than the one he was in last year. So childish of him. Mind you the one he was in last year wasn't a play for kids and I thought some stuff was inappropriate but he insisted on her going. She was bored.It is just stupid that he is upset over that.

We ended up not going to church last Sunday because my tire went flat while we went biking and then dd tire went flat about ten minutes later. So we had to push our bikes the 3 miles back to the car. She was tuckered out by the time we got home.

Life stinks right now.

Elizabeth

08-03-2005, 03:09 PM

I've thought about the whole how can we see loved ones again question and I still can't figure it out. On one hand, God could make it so we all meet again and there is no animosity, no hurt, no negative. We would be different people in Heaven, so maybe the negativity just isn't part of who we are. Plus, maybe we see the person as we know them, so years don't make a difference. And, maybe a widower would see her first husband but somehow, there isn't any negativity. Afterall, God can do anything, right? So why can't He create a place where we all get along peacefully and leave the negative past behind us?

DD, I think you hit the nail on the head there. We're trying to explain heaven according to our logic, which is impossible. With God anything is possible. I doubt that we will see each other and be like, "OMG, Becky, look! It's Steve. I CANNOT believe he is here." :p :D

I think we'll be so overwhelmed with love and so focused on praising God that all the negativity from our lives won't even really exist anymore.

At least I hope so. My ex-husband will be in Heaven, too, since although he isn't what I would define as a good Christian, he is technically saved. Interesting to see I'm not the only one here with an ex! It would be nice to think that in Heaven he'll realize how much he hurt and wronged me, and we could be reconciled to each other.

Do you ever think that you might miss nookie in Heaven? I mean, maybe worshipping God is like the power of 50 orgasms, :eek: :p but ... things that make you go hmmmm.

lady1297

08-03-2005, 06:32 PM

Question based on this comment:

At least I hope so. My ex-husband will be in Heaven, too, since although he isn't what I would define as a good Christian, he is technically saved. Interesting to see I'm not the only one here with an ex! It would be nice to think that in Heaven he'll realize how much he hurt and wronged me, and we could be reconciled to each other.

How come someone can be saved, but not a good Christian? Don't you have to be good to get into Heaven, is it really just based on being saved? I mean, is a person really saved if they claim to accept Jesus, but don't accept his teachings and lead therefore a good life? Does that make sense for a question?

mrs_pell

08-03-2005, 06:41 PM

Lady1297, I will *attempt* to answer that, though I'm not sure I will do it justice.

This is the passage that says it best to me: Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The Bible says that our faith in Him is what will save us...not good works. Everyone of us is imperfect. We all do things that are not "good."

However, I think that if someone *is* indeed a Christian, they will *want* to do good deeds. They will want to [try to] live the life that Christ has demanded we live. The good deeds aren't demanded for our salvation, but once one has accepted that salvation, the good deeds usually follow.

Make any sense?

eta: I also wanted to say that your question is definitely a question that "makes sense." It is an area that is argued by religious people everywhere. Some people believe it is grace PLUS good works, some believe that it is grace alone. Personally, I believe that we could never EVER do enough good to deserve heaven.

DiscoDiva

08-03-2005, 07:53 PM

I mean, maybe worshipping God is like the power of 50 orgasms, ewwww. That was just wrong! You can't compare God to anything sexual! :eek:

My ex-husband will be in Heaven, too, since although he isn't what I would define as a good Christian, he is technically saved.
So you are saying that once you are saved, it is good forever, even if you lose your faith? Because I don't believe that. Or, are you saying that your ex still has faith but isn't doing as he should?

to add: I am making much more of an effort to do good deeds than I used to. I'm not doing it to try to gain favor with God, I'm just doing it because I think it's the right thing to do for Him, and to honor Him.

mmeblue

08-04-2005, 04:27 AM

Do you ever think that you might miss nookie in Heaven? I mean, maybe worshipping God is like the power of 50 orgasms, :eek: :p but ... things that make you go hmmmm.
CS Lewis actually talks about this in one of his books, Miracles.
The letter and spirit of scripture, and of all Christianity, forbid us to suppose that life in the New Creation will be a sexual life; and this reduces our imagination to the withering alternatives either of bodies which are hardly recognisable as human bodies at all or else of a perpetual fast. As regards the fast, I think our present outlook might be like that of a small boy who, on being told that the sexual act was the highest bodily pleasure, should immediately ask whether you ate chocolates at the same time. On receiving the answer "No," he might regard absence of chocolates as the chief characteristic of sexuality. In vain would you tell him that the reason why lovers in their carnal raptures don't bother about chocolates is that they have something better to think of. The boy knows chocolate: he does not know the positive thing which excludes it. We are in the same position. We know the sexual life; we do not know, except in glimpses, the other thing which, in Heaven, will leave no room for it. Hence where fulness awaits us we anticipate fasting.
I thought that was an interesting way to look at it.

Oh, I guess I haven't posted in here yet...hi. :) I've been going to church since about 9 months before I was born, and I became a believer in Christ when I was 6 years old. I've always gone to Baptist churches, but DH and I are about to start looking elsewhere as we've become more reformed in our thinking than Baptists are. I teach at an interdenominational Christian school, where I am blessed with wonderful coworkers and administrators who challenge me to incorporate biblical principles into my teaching. Um...yeah, that's me. :)

lady1297

08-04-2005, 04:37 AM

I guess I'm a bit more where Disco Diva is with this question. Here's my thoughts. I don't think you are getting into Heaven just because you said at 15 you are Christian. You have to continue to accept Jesus. Daily. And part of that is being a good person. Your faith does wax and wane. We are all proof of that. And that doesn't mean that we won't get to Heaven. But I don't feel it is as simple as saying we are Christians and then doing as we please. We have to accept that as Christians we have to take responsibility for our actions. Forgiveness is a guarantee, because our Father loves us, but that doesn't mean we don't ask for it. And it doesn't mean we don't TRY not to commit sin. Yes, we will fail. That's why Jesus says that we will be forgiven every time (parable about forgiving your brother 7 times. - I don't know how to search and post Bible quotes online sorry)

I believe the first step towards Heaven is accepting the teachings of the Bible. One of which is that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. But it also teaches that we should be examples of Jesus in our words and deeds. We should love one another. I think these things count too. Just like I don't think all my Jewish and Non Christain friends will not make it to Heaven. I know that is a debate that will get a bunch of you (if not all of you) riled up and start flaming me, but it's something I have to believe because I can't handle the idea that some of the best people I know aren't Christians yet. (side note, please let's not get into a heated debate and override this one, because I'm very curious about this one) I still hope they will become so, but I don't know. Because of this I don't believe that the reverse is true that bad people who claim to be Christians will be sent to Heaven. I think that being saved is the first step as I said. And then we must continually renew our faith and convictions. I don't think it's as easy as accepting something once and then ignoring it the rest of our lives.

Just some early morning thoughts. :)

katmg

08-04-2005, 05:32 AM

I believe that if you truly accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior - that he died on the cross for your sins then you are saved. God knows our hearts better than even we do. He knows if we really believe this or if we just "say" we're Christians.

There are no good things that we can do that would make us worthy of the Kingdom of Heaven. It is by grace alone that we can enter.

Mrs.Pell's post said it better than I could.

lady1297

08-04-2005, 06:00 AM

Katymg

I do agree that no works alone will earn you the right to Heaven, I guess. But I grapple with many issues of those who either have not had the opportunity to learn about Jesus (ie third world countries, children without the right influences, those of other religions that haven't had Christian influences). And I am concerned about my friends as I stated.

I TOTALLY agree that God knows our hearts better than even we do. I try very hard not to judge others (I admit, I don't always suceed :( ). We found out after my grandfather died that he, while in his last weeks of life, asked for a minister to come to the nursing home and pray with him. :eek: This was the man that never went to church and always questioned my grandmother's beliefs. So I do understand that even when death is a knocking, we can be saved. I just wonder how others (not us) justify saying they are Christian and then acting contrary to that. And how those who aren't Christian can be refused if they aren't exposed to Christianity. And I don't know what God will do with those that don't profess a faith of Christianity. I just wonder. Guess it's a call to ministry.

Elizabeth

08-04-2005, 11:33 AM

ewwww. That was just wrong! You can't compare God to anything sexual!

Why not? He created sex! See also: Song of Solomon

So you are saying that once you are saved, it is good forever, even if you lose your faith? Because I don't believe that. Or, are you saying that your ex still has faith but isn't doing as he should?

Mainstream Christians don't believe in "backsliding" or losing your salvation. If you accepted Christ and understood what you were doing, than you are saved.

if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

As far as good works are concerned, this is where many Christian denominations divide. But I agree with Mrs Pell and her refering to Ephesians 2:8-9. We do good works in response to our love of God, not to merit salvation or favor. We are saved because of what Jesus did, not because of what we do. "All our righteousness is like filthy rags" Isaiah 64:6 Being a "good Christian," or living out Christ's teachings, is a matter of doing what we should do on earth to live better lives and give glory to God. But I do think there will be so-called "bad Christians" in Heaven. Really, we're all bad Christians. That's why we need Jesus.

I'm loving this thread so far! Interesting debate!

ETA - mmeblue, thank you for posting that interesting passage from C.S. Lewis!!!!

isign

08-04-2005, 12:18 PM

I think the 'once saved always saved' topic has been a debate for years. DH always says, Once really saved, Always really saved. God desires a relationship with us, He wants a true relationship. I'm sure ya'll have heard the song, 'what a friend we have in Jesus'. That's the type of relationship I belive we are to have with Him, a true loving friendship. That said, we all know how relationships are - the ups and downs - they have good times and bad. Comparing that with our relationship with Christ, I think that sometimes we stumble, get sidetacked and lose focus.

Mainstream Christians don't believe in "backsliding" or losing your salvation. If you accepted Christ and understood what you were doing, than you are saved.
In the interest of the debate, what are mainstream christians?

I don't belive that backsliding and losing your salvation is the same thing. Backsliding is not holding on as strong to that relationship between God and the Christian, but you can come back from it. Many of us have shown that in our testimonies, going to church as a child, finding 'other interests' but then coming back to our first love. Does that make any of us any less saved?

Elizabeth

08-04-2005, 01:56 PM

In the interest of the debate, what are mainstream christians?

What I mean by mainstream Christians is the majority of Christian denominations whose teachings do not depart significantly from what is accepted by the majority. Examples of mainstream denominations are those that belong to the National Council of Churches USA (http://www.ncccusa.org/members/index.html), but that is not an exhaustive list.

isign

08-04-2005, 02:04 PM

I find it very interesting that Southern Baptists aren't on that. I would assume they'd be considered 'mainstream' as well.

Elizabeth

08-04-2005, 02:25 PM

I would too. Are you sure they aren't included in one of the six Baptist groups on that list?

Also, I did say that I don't consider their list to be exhaustive of "mainstream Christians." I'm assuming there are other mainstream denominations that, for one reason or another, haven't joined.

ETA - I'm remembering now that some churches don't like the NCCUSA because they consider some of the denominations too liberal.

lady1297

08-04-2005, 02:32 PM

Interesting responses. I guess I do have a hard time with the "saved" part, or rather the terminology in relation to my faith and religion. Being Catholic, you're always Catholic, but that doesn't mean you are always in 'good standing', meaning that you are doing 'the right things'. But you can always go back and you are always Catholic (unless you change religions). Hmmm...I guess I can relate that way to being "saved". It's weird to think of it that way because I never use the term for myself. I don't consider myself "saved" but I do consider myself Christian and a follower of Jesus, so I guess I am "saved". Hmmm...guess it's making sense slowly to me.

Interesting question about "Mainstream". So, what makes one church Mainstream and not another? What is the National Council of Churches USA and why do certain churches belong?

Elizabeth

08-04-2005, 04:06 PM

Hi Lady!

I went to 6 years of Catholic school and then worked for a Catholic company that published liturgical literature and catechesis, so I consider myself an honorary Catholic. ;) I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church. I also have never heard Catholics talk about being "saved" or "born again." It is one of the differences between Catholics and Protestants. So I don't blame you for feeling uncomfortable with those terms.

I think we're comparing apples and oranges. I think you're talking about "being good" and I'm talking about "being saved" - or, going to Heaven after I die, being "saved from my sins."

So can I ask you, according to your beliefs, how do you ensure that you will go to Heaven after you die?

Interesting question about "Mainstream". So, what makes one church Mainstream and not another? What is the National Council of Churches USA and why do certain churches belong?

My concept of "mainstream" churches is that they all roughly agree on the same major doctrines of Christianity. There are going to be variances, but these variances do not dilute the main Gospel of Jesus Christ. Here is what their website says:

The National Council of Churches, founded in 1950, is the leading force for ecumenical cooperation among Christians in the United States. The NCC's member faith groups — representing a wide spectrum of Protestant, Anglican, Orthodox, historic African American and Living Peace churches — include 45 million persons in more than 100,000 local congregations in communities across the nation.

Statement of Faith

"The National Council of Churches is a community of Christian communions, which, in response to the gospel as revealed in the Scriptures, confess Jesus Christ, the incarnate Word of God, as Savior and Lord. These communions covenant with one another to manifest ever more fully the unity of the Church. Relying upon the transforming power of the Holy Spirit, the communions come together as the Council in common mission, serving in all creation to the glory of God." --from the Preamble to the NCC Constitution.

This general statement is accepted by all of the NCC's member churches (also called communions, conventions and denominations), which as Christian bodies hold these and many other beliefs in common. Each of the member communions also has a unique heritage, including teachings and practices that differ from those of other members.

By referencing the NCCUSA, I didn't mean to endorse them, I simply used them as an example of a collection of mainstream Christian denominations.

Personally, ecumenicalism, and the fact that all of these churches in the Body of Christ agree to be affiliated with each other and work together, lends credibility to them IMO. I am wary of churches that are anti-denomination or don't want to work with other churches.

I realize that the Roman Catholic Church is not on the list. I imagine that that is because the RCC believes that it is THE church. I respect that. I don't agree with it, but I respect it. I think a lot of people are turned off to Christianity b/c there are so many denominations. That's too bad. The RCC has that advantage. It believes that the truth is absolute. I like that.

And I have seen many organizations like the NCCUSA that the RCC belongs to. There are many examples of ecumenicalism and the Catholic and Protestant churches working together side by side as members of the same Body of Christ. I think Pope John Paul addressed this in one of his encylicals.

DiscoDiva

08-04-2005, 04:26 PM

kiddo

08-04-2005, 04:58 PM

deleted, double posted, sorry!

kiddo

08-04-2005, 05:01 PM

I am a Christian and a member of the Roman Catholic Church. I was raised RC, baptised as a baby and made my first communion when I was 8. When it came time to make my confirmation at 15, I wasn't sure about it (the RCC, not Jesus Christ) so I stopped going to church.

I attended some other Christian churches with friends, but they didn't feel right to me. Especially communion.

My DH is RC and got me attending church again when I was 20. I made my confirmation when I was 24 and we were married in the RCC.

I also have never heard Catholics talk about being "saved" or "born again."

Because we believe that accepting Jesus Christ isn't a one time thing that you do and then "poof" you're saved. Accepting Jesus Christ is done by being Christ-like, it is something we work on every day. My priest put it this way..."When someone asks me if I am saved, I reply to them 'I'm working on it' ."

So can I ask you, according to your beliefs, how do you ensure that you will go to Heaven after you die?

You can't. You do your best every day to accept Jesus Christ into your life. I personally believe that accepting Him continues even after death.

I also don't believe in a hell of fire and brimstone, either. If Heaven is a place where you are in the presence of God, then "hell" would be the opposite, the abscence of God.

daydreamer

08-04-2005, 05:38 PM

oops

daydreamer

08-04-2005, 05:43 PM

oops

daydreamer

08-04-2005, 05:50 PM

Oh heavens, I want to join but I lost my message. Maybe you all can help me:
I'll be as brief as possible (I'll try)
1. I am from a Baptist family however was not raised in church
2. Saved at a revival the summer btw high school and college
3. I'm in church...then I'm out of church...etc
4. I live in a small town in a rural setting so variety is not readily available. I was going to a Southern Baptist Church (I'm not big S Southern - I'm too liberal)
5. I was in church for about 2 years the last time when some incidents came up and I left. The preacher is very traditional (nice word) and was extreme
right everything. It was annoying but he made me think and start to articulate my beliefs. The incident that still haunts me today is my sunday school teacher mentioned how "sexual harrassment" was just a way women attempted to get to the top without working. Now she has never worked outside the home but her husband told her :rolleyes: Unfortunately, being a victim of such I spoke up (kindly BTW) and I left knowing I would not be going back. And that was the last time (except funerals & weddings) that I've been.
Now I know that satan will use anything esp. one's hot buttons to keep you out of church. So it is my ego that made me leave or can you really not fit into a church?
I am Christian, I am Liberal so I know one can be both. Where is my church?

DiscoDiva

08-04-2005, 07:11 PM

Now I know that satan will use anything esp. one's hot buttons to keep you out of church. So it is my ego that made me leave or can you really not fit into a church?
Does satan try to keep you out of church, or does he try to keep the church out of you? Very different.

You can really not fit into a church. I was raised Catholic, but it never fit for me. I searched around, from bible churches, to community churches, to christian churches, to church of Christ, to Lutheran. The Lutheran church is where I finally felt at home and the only church I ever joined.

So yes, you can really not fit into a church. Afterall, if churches were one-size-fits-all, then there would only be one denomination, right?

mrs_pell

08-04-2005, 07:12 PM

I don't know if agree with 'once saved, always saved.' If you are a Christian, have a rough few years, but your faith is always in the back of your mind, and you never sever ties with the Lord, I can see how you are still saved. But, what if you are born again, then start worshiping Satan and denounce all your ties with Jesus Christ? Are you still saved because you were once? To me, there's a big difference from not practicing your faith or not being a "good" Christian (whatever that means), and totally changing your life to purposely exclude the Lord and profession devotion to another.

Disco, honestly, I feel that *IF* one is TRULY saved - TRULY accepted Jesus as their Savior, than God wouldn't allow that person to start worshipping Satan, or denounce Him. John 10:27-29 says, My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

However, I do think that there are people who *profess* to be Christian, without ever TRULY making that decision, who could then change their views, mock God, worship Satan, etc. Those people wouldn't *lose* their salvation because they never had it to begin with.

That's just how I see it. :)

mrs_pell

08-04-2005, 07:16 PM

So it is my ego that made me leave or can you really not fit into a church?

When we found our church is after I started praying for God to lead us to the right church. Where we landed is probably one of the last places I would have though, because it is a HUGE church (to me, anyway). When I was looking for the church *I* wanted, I was having a hard time. I was looking for something that was just the right size...that was my main priority. Well, I didn't "fit" into those churches. The church we're at now is absolutely amazing. It's so much larger than I'd ever expected to like, but I love it. I *know* this is the church that I belong in. My point is, I think we have to leave it to God to show us where we belong. It's where HE wants us to be, not where WE want us to be. :) Keep praying...you'll find one that's right for you!

DiscoDiva

08-04-2005, 07:27 PM

Disco, honestly, I feel that *IF* one is TRULY saved - TRULY accepted Jesus as their Saviour, than God wouldn't allow that person to start worshipping Satan, or denounce Him. John 10:27-29 says, My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
Thank you for that! Perfect scripture to answer that question!

I, too, am a member of a very large church, which I did not ever think I would join. I thought it would be too impersonal, but it is where I feel at home.

mrs_pell

08-04-2005, 07:51 PM

Thank you for that! Perfect scripture to answer that question!

I, too, am a member of a very large church, which I did not ever think I would join. I thought it would be too impersonal, but it is where I feel at home.

Yeah! I'm so glad it made sense! BTW, I love Google! I knew exactly what verse I was looking for, but couldn't remember what it was word for word, or where exactly it was. So...I googled it! :D

It's very strange still for me to be in a large church. The challenge that I have, which is MY problem that I need to work on, is that it's so easy to not become involved. In the small church I grew up in, everyone knew everyone, and if you weren't there, or didn't go to certain functions, people missed you. In a large church, it's so easy to slip in and slip out, and never talk to anyone, or get to know anyone. We are meeting with the Bible study minister next week to discuss which class would be best suited for us, and I think that will help us meet more people and in a sense, be held more accountable. There are soooo many opportunities to be involved in this church, but we just have to be proactive about it and DO IT! :)

Elizabeth

08-04-2005, 09:22 PM

The challenge that I have, which is MY problem that I need to work on, is that it's so easy to not become involved. In the small church I grew up in, everyone knew everyone, and if you weren't there, or didn't go to certain functions, people missed you. In a large church, it's so easy to slip in and slip out, and never talk to anyone, or get to know anyone.

I'm having the same problem at my church. I'm too introverted to just "mingle" to meet people. I am involved with a singles group 25-35, but even that is overwhelming for me. I've made two close friends and a few other friends, but it's not the same as the church I grew up in where my dad was a pastor and I couldn't even walk across the patio without being accosted!

But I love the preaching, and I like the fact that there are a lot of young people/singles, so I'm staying.

BethElena

08-05-2005, 07:19 AM

The challenge that I have, which is MY problem that I need to work on, is that it's so easy to not become involved. In the small church I grew up in, everyone knew everyone, and if you weren't there, or didn't go to certain functions, people missed you. In a large church, it's so easy to slip in and slip out, and never talk to anyone, or get to know anyone.

I know that when my dad abandoned my mom a few years ago, him and his girlfriend started going to a local church that was large. That way he wouldn't "feel guilty" by people recognizing him.

I'm not saying large churches are evil (they're definitely not), but I can see how easily it would be just get lost in the crowd. I attend a church now that has like 500 members and 3 services (they're cutting back to 2 so they don't have to rush so much) and when I go to the later service, I don't recognize anybody!!! So I guess my home church has become a big church?? And with all the faces I don't recognize, I should be going up and greeting them, because i've been there for almost my whole life. But boy is it hard to do that! I should step out of my box, say a little prayer, and introduce myself to a new face next sunday.... :)

isign

08-05-2005, 07:37 AM

But, what if you are born again, then start worshiping Satan and denounce all your ties with Jesus Christ? Are you still saved because you were once? To me, there's a big difference from not practicing your faith or not being a "good" Christian (whatever that means), and totally changing your life to purposely exclude the Lord and profession devotion to another.

Like you said there is a huge difference between 'backsliding' and totally renouncing Christ. In all truthfullness that person probably wasn't a Christian or born again or saved to begin with.

The challenge that I have, which is MY problem that I need to work on, is that it's so easy to not become involved. In the small church I grew up in, everyone knew everyone, and if you weren't there, or didn't go to certain functions, people missed you. In a large church, it's so easy to slip in and slip out, and never talk to anyone, or get to know anyone.

We are church hunting. DH went to a large church, but he was very active and the community is small, so this wasn't a problem. I grew up in a small church and was active and while I didn't know everyone, I was pretty familiar. We were going to a very tiny church where DH was the youth pastor, and I didn't like it at all. Everyone was way too close, and way too nosy. We now are visiting a decent size church. The youth pastor and his wife are very close friends of ours, and since they do things with the staff, we also do at times. Going to church there makes us feel welcomed. We don't know hardly anyone except the youth and and a few staff members, but I'd take that church over the tiny church any day.

Elizabeth

08-05-2005, 10:17 AM

Quote:
So can I ask you, according to your beliefs, how do you ensure that you will go to Heaven after you die?

You can't.

I kind of understand what you're saying, but I personally would have a hard time not really knowing that I'm saved. To me, that would feel like God was not really a loving father, but one whom you're constantly trying to impress and with whom you never really know where you stand.

This is my personal belief on the subject, which I'm not trying to impose on anyone - just sharing! Jesus' death atoned for our sins. All of the sins we will ever commit. If we acknowledge that act, if we claim his as our Lord and Savior - we are, at that moment, assured of our salvation and our life after death in Heaven with the Father.

Nothing we can do can particularly impress God. We are sinners, that is why we needed the atonement.

So I don't believe that our salvation is a lifelong process, but I do believe that following Christ is a lifelong process. Which, like everything, has its ups and downs - and it consists of trying to be Christ-like, like you said. But (and this is my personal opinion, not something I've ever been taught in church) following Christ, being a "good Christian," is more about living a good life here on earth, b/c Christ's teachings are the best way to achieve happiness and true peace for ourselves and for others. Also, when we act Christ-like, we bring glory to God and win others to Christ. But because we are sinners, and a sin is a sin is a sin, both Billy Graham and Joe Blow still need to ask for forgiveness for their sins, look to the cross, and accept Christ's atonement in order to be saved. I don't think Billy Graham is going to be "more saved" than Joe Blow. Salvation is an all-or-nothing thing. (Although the Bible does talk about our reward in Heaven according to our works here on earth.)

I don't know if I'm making any sense - I'm just rambling. What I'm trying to say is that I don't think what we do here on earth has as much to do with our salvation as simply accepting Christ. But I also don't consider Christianity a "fire insurance" faith where you can do whatever the heck you want just as long as you say the magic words. Like someone else said, when you love God and are filled with the Holy Spirit, when you pray that God will direct your path and his will will be accomplished in your life... then you can't help but try to do right by Him and by your fellow man, as it were. God's love just flows out of you.

kiddo

08-05-2005, 01:05 PM

It's not about impressing God, it's about honoring Him.

It sounds to me like you are saying to accept Jesus Christ as your savior, you must declare at one point in time "I accept You." From that specific point in time, you are "saved" and going to heaven.

I am saying I accept Jesus Christ as our savior by honoring Him in my thoughts and actions every day. Yes, I will falter, but I do my best. The only way to truly accept Him is to emmulate Him.

What about the moment before you were "saved", were you going to hell? Does that mean all children go to hell? If not, at what point in one's life do you need to be saved to go to heaven?

Elizabeth

08-05-2005, 02:28 PM

There's probably no point in us debating this, because it is simply the beliefs of the Catholic tradition versus the beliefs of the Protestant tradition. And while I really enjoy debate, especially theological debate, I don't want to alienate you or any Catholics reading this. I want Catholics to feel welcome in this community we're building.

You're right, I do believe in a moment of salvation. St. Paul said in Romans 10:9 "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is lord and believe it in your heart, you will be saved." He doesn't say "unless you backslide" or "as long as you're a good Christian."

“ Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born again." (John 3:4-6; NKJV).

When I read these passages, I visualize a specific moment in time in which a person turns from their old life and chooses to follow Christ - at which point they are saved. Like I said before, the Christian life is ongoing, but salvation is a done deal. Similar to St. Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus. He went from persecuting Christians to preaching the Gospel of Christ in a very short period of time. God doesn't appear to us that dramatically, but there is a moment pre-salvation and post-salvation. As we were talking about earlier in the thread, some of us that were (for all intents and purposes) born Christian don't have that dramatic of a conversion story to tell. But in many churches there are confirmation ceremonies or adult baptisms that signify that a person is making the choice as an adult to follow Christ, not simply because their parents are.

As far as babies, or people that are born in, say, Indonesia, where they aren't exposed to the Gospel... The Bible says that we will be judged according to what we know. A baby or small child doesn't have the capacity to really accept Jesus, and a person who's never heard the Gospel is not *rejecting* the Gospel because they haven't heard it. I believe the Bible is silent on this matter, but most people believe that a just, compassionate God could not send the naive to hell.

ptrecluse

08-05-2005, 02:33 PM

For me I think that being born again means that I have accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior believed that He died on the cross and rose on the third day. I believe that when I came to the realization that my live was meaningless without Him as the center of my life. Good works come from wanting to be more like him, not an easy task at all but one to strive for everyday. I think a big part of salvation is confessing our sins daily to Him and realizing that through this we are drawn closer to Him. (I'm not sure I'm able to articulate my point, sorry.)

What about the moment before you were "saved", were you going to hell? Does that mean all children go to hell? If not, at what point in one's life do you need to be saved to go to heaven?

As for children, I believe there is an age of accountability (the physical age veries by person) depending on the childs understanding and maturity.

We attend a HUGE church, sometimes I feel overwhelmed by it all but the service is designed that you interact with your neighbors several times during the service. We break off into groups of 3-4 people to pray for one another and for various topics that effect our country and local area. It took me awhile to get used to the interaction but it's actually a lot of fun and really brings a sense of community.

DiscoDiva

08-05-2005, 04:13 PM

It sounds to me like you are saying to accept Jesus Christ as your savior, you must declare at one point in time "I accept You." From that specific point in time, you are "saved" and going to heaven.
I think that is a good way to say it!

So I don't believe that our salvation is a lifelong process, but I do believe that following Christ is a lifelong process.
That is what I believe as well.

My new question for you ladies: what do you think of Joel Osteen?
I really like him. I like the way he presents the gospel in everyday terms, so even the most bible-ignorant person (like me) can get the message and understand. I also like the way he is so positive and encouraging. I watch him every Sunday, as I rarely get to church because of my business. I'm always sleeping in on Sunday due to a late Saturday night working! My husband even watches Joel when I'm not in the room - which is so great. I pray for my husband to truly accept Jesus Christ into his heart, and I hope Joel Osteen is one way to help get the message to him.

And for those who say Joel is too extravagant, yes he drives a Lexus, but it's an older model that was his dad's. He also no longer accepts a salary from the church, as he lives off the profits from his books.

mrs_pell

08-05-2005, 07:49 PM

This will be my last post for a while, since I'm leaving town to be with my grandmother who's having surgery (actually, all prayers for her, as well as my travels, would be greatly appreciated!).

I just wanted to say that I also believe in a specific moment that one is "saved." Elizabeth posted Romans 10:9, and I think it is a great example of God telling us exactly what we need to do: confess with our mouth, and believe in Him.

Disco...I haven't watched a lot of Joel Osteen, but I do know that a lot of people that wouldn't be interested in hearing anything about God, are interested in listening to him (my MIL, for example). From what I do know, and have heard, I think he tries a little too hard not to alienate anyone, and by doing so, sometimes "waters down" somethings. The Larry King interview was a great example of that. He danced around a LOT of issues, that I'm sure he truly does feel strongly about. BUT...I also understand that he wants as many people as possible to hear what he has to say, and a lot of people will tune out the second he says something they don't like. For now, I won't say that I think he's as effective as say, Billy Graham, but I do think he is truly trying to do God's will. And for that, I give him a lot of respect. I also don't care AT ALL what kind of car he drives. ;)

DiscoDiva

08-05-2005, 10:17 PM

From what I do know, and have heard, I think he tries a little too hard not to alienate anyone, and by doing so, sometimes "waters down" somethings.
I agree. And, I agree he is doing it in order to not scare off people. My bigger issue with him is that sometimes he turns biblical points into doing something for yourself rather than for the right reason. Ex. in his book he talks about giving to others. But then he says that you won't receive until you first give. So, if you want to get riches, you have to start by giving. I can see some people giving away everything only to try to get rich, but still not seeing the plain fact that giving towards others is a good thing, regardless of if you receive anything in return.

Still, I do love Joel, and find him inspirational!

katmg

08-06-2005, 06:40 AM

Wow - I'm so surprised to see Joel Osteen mentioned in here. Why? Because he lives in my town! I forget that he's a "national" figure. They just finished converting our old basketball arena into his church. I believe it holds 20,000 people. I know one of the architects that worked on the project. She said the budget was really minimal (which made me happy b/c I would worry about people focusing on how much it cost to build the church rather than on the message). There's been a lot of press here in Houston about him and the opening of the new church. Apparently the traffic on Sundays has been out of control with people trying to get to church!

isign

08-06-2005, 08:07 AM

Prayer request, well 2. I got really sunburnt yesterday, mostly on my face. The other one is for my baby brother. He leaves tomorrow for the Navy. It's really going to be hard. My other two brothers live across the country - maryland and Arizona, and now he's going. I am proud of him for making his dreams come true, but I am going to miss him so much. He's really dealt with heavy hits from Satan the past 2 years, stumbled really bad, but has come back to God with more passion then I've ever seen. He now has a baby girl who's only 7 months old. The situation with her mother isn't good, but with God's help we're dealing. Please say a prayer for him.

DiscoDiva

08-06-2005, 10:34 AM

isign: done!

isign

08-06-2005, 10:59 AM

thank you!

Tiger

08-06-2005, 12:26 PM

Hey everyone! I am new to this thread so I haven't had a chance to read through everything yet but I have a question for you.

I am catholic and DH is Christian. We were married in a Catholic church however, DH has no inclination to become catholic which is fine with me since we believe so much of the same things anyway. The problem is, we are expecting our first child in a couple of months. It is part of the catholic faith to have babies baptized as infants but DH doesn't know that he agrees with this because he thinks the child should be old enough to understand what is going on before getting baptized. It is really important to me that "something" is done for our child as an infant...whether it is baptizing or something else in the Christian church....I told Dh I would be willing to compromise if there was something similiar that the Christian church does.

So, my question for you is this: Do you know what Christian churches do for infants? Do they have some kind of special ceremony to welcome them into the church?

Thanks for all your help ladies!!

DiscoDiva

08-06-2005, 09:35 PM

So, my question for you is this: Do you know what Christian churches do for infants? Do they have some kind of special ceremony to welcome them into the church?

Thanks for all your help ladies!!
Some churches have something similar to a baptism, but they call it a Baby Dedication. It is a way for people to promise to raise their baby faith-fulled home, and for the godparents to promise to assist if necessary. I've seen this done in a community church.

TX Sweetheart

08-06-2005, 09:51 PM

In the Episcopal church (or at least the one I grew up in) they have baptisms for babies...

katmg

08-07-2005, 04:10 PM

Methodist here - always seen baptisms. Although my parents wanted to wait for my brother and I to make that decision as well. So when he was getting confirmed in 6th grade we were both baptised at that time. I was about 8 and he was around 11.

Elizabeth

08-07-2005, 04:24 PM

Hi y'all.

Never heard of Joel Osteen. I will Google him. :)

I'm Presbyterian, and we have infant baptisms too. A lot of denominations do, and some don't. Baptists and Pentecostals (among others) do adult/teenager baptism, because "there is no infant baptism in the Bible." Yeah, I guess that's true... like a lot of things infant baptism evolved as a tradition. I totally sympathize with the belief that people should choose to be baptised when they are old enough to understand what they are doing. But as my mother likes to remind me, she stood up with my father in front of the church and promised to raise me in "the nurture and admonition of the Lord." So in my family/church, we view baptism as being a time for the child to be "dedicated" in a sense to Christ, as well as for the parents to promise God and the church to raise the child to be a Christian. Also, the congregation stands up and all recite together that they promise to support the parents and the child in that goal. I think it's a nice ceremony.

Then in my church, in 9th grade we take a whole school year to have confirmation class once a week. In June, we are confirmed in front of the congregation on a Sunday. We declare our personal belief in Christ and desire to follow him. I think we might have been "annointed" will oil on our foreheads and there might have been "laying on of hands" while they prayed for us. I'm not sure, because we do the laying on of hands when we commission a mission team too. My pastor gave us the option of being baptised by immersion in someone's spa :) , too, if they hadn't been baptized before, or if they wanted to do it again now that they were older.

SO.... don't know why I went into all that! But I bet the church you're going to with dh might have some sort of dedication or christening ceremony. Ask. Maybe you could ask for the pastor to do a special blessing? That would be sweet if the pastor explained to the congregation that you and dh wanted to have a special blessing on your child with your family present to dedicate your child to Christ.

So have you decided to not raise your child Catholic?

jenji

08-08-2005, 06:05 AM

So, my question for you is this: Do you know what Christian churches do for infants? Do they have some kind of special ceremony to welcome them into the church?

We don't have any special ceremonies or baptisms or sprinking for infants in my church. As far as welcoming the baby, there's usually a shower for the mother, but basically everyone just individually welcomes the baby and helps the parents where they need help. It's more of a personal thing than a public part of the worship service

Tiger

08-08-2005, 07:04 AM

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I am going to call the pastor at dh's church and see what they do there. I think someone asked if we decided not to raise our child catholic. Well, I think we will probably raise her knowing both religions...catholic and christian since they share so many similiarities. Dh just has his personal reasons why he does not want to baptize our child in the catholic faith, which I respect.

I am off to try to call the pastor now...Thanks again everyone!!

BethElena

08-08-2005, 08:57 AM

isign - i'm a little late reading today, but I will keep you and your family in my prayers!

LyLMyssChaos

08-08-2005, 11:13 AM

I'm also LDS, and we totally consider ourselves Christian. I know that someone said they don't know what we believe, so here are the basics:

1.We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, evisions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion(the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12. We believe in being subject to bkings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

LyLMyssChaos

08-08-2005, 11:19 AM

Now that I got "our beliefs" out of the way, I want to respond to some topics that have been mentioned here:
Heaven: We believe that Heaven will be just like earth, only happy (for lack of a better word,) The Lord revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith that the “same sociality which exists among us here will exist among us there [in eternity], only it will be coupled with eternal glory” (Doctrine and Covenants 130:2).
I believe that families can truly be together forever as long as we do the things that Heavenly Father expects us to. I don't want to offend anyone with my own church's doctrine, but I think that they word my views on Heaven so much better than I can, so I'm just copying what they say on it;

Heaven is the place where God lives and the future home of those who follow Him. The hope of our Heavenly Father and the goal of each person on this earth is to return to live with Him. This means that the opportunity to return to our Heavenly Father has been provided through the grace of our Savior, Jesus Christ.
After we are resurrected we will be judged and rewarded for the things we have done in this life.
Jesus Christ taught His Apostles that in His Father’s house are “many mansions” (John 14:2). Our loving Heavenly Father is anxious to reward all of His children according to their obedience to His commandments and their willingness to follow the Savior.
Those who do these things and are worthy to return to the presence of God and Christ become “heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ” (Romans 8:17) of all that the Father has. They will return to live with Heavenly Father and with their families in His eternal glory.

Those who choose not to follow our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ will receive a reward according to what they have done in this life, but they will not enjoy the glory of living in the presence of God.

lady1297

08-09-2005, 05:13 AM

So can I ask you, according to your beliefs, how do you ensure that you will go to Heaven after you die?

Sorry! I didn't get notices and with my son's 1st b-day, just wasn't checking unless I got notices! I wasn't ignoring your post!!

According to my beliefs, I will go to Heaven if God determines me worthy to be there. I believe that during the second coming of Christ, God will look back and determine if I go to Heaven (if that happens before I die). If that doesn't happen before I die, I believe that when I die I will still be judged by my faith and acts. If I lead a life that is good, follow the commandments given to me and keep my faith then I will go to Heaven. I don't mean that I will never falter in my faith, but that deep in my heart I believe. Which I do and always have, deep in my heart, even when I've strayed. If I follow the 'rules' I guess!! :)

Ultimitly, though, I can't guarantee I will go to Heaven. I may, at the last moments deny my faith. Or I might not live a life worthy of spending eternity in God's glory, worshipping him. But I desperatly want to go to Heaven. I want to 'see' God and worship him and sing his praises with the angels. I always have wanted that. As much as I love my DH and DS, I would give them up to be in Heaven with God. It's taken having my son to get to the point where I'd leave all this behind to be with God. God gave me a piece of Himself when He gave me my son and even better than that, He gave me HIS Son. And there is no greater love than that, so I want to thank Him for all eternity for that.

lady1297

08-09-2005, 05:35 AM

"It is part of the catholic faith to have babies baptized as infants but DH doesn't know that he agrees with this because he thinks the child should be old enough to understand what is going on before getting baptized."

Can you explain to him that baptism is different than Confirmation? Confirmation in the Catholic faith is the sacrement that publicly acknowledges that the person accepts the faith because they know enough about it (maybe the equivalent of "being saved"?). Baptism is the wiping away of original sin and the charging of the parents to raise the child in the Christian beliefs (It never actually says that you will raise them CATHOLIC, rather that you will teach them about God and the Bible. It also charges the Godparents to help in that teaching process. Confirmation, on the other hand, is the sacrament that allows the child to say that they CHOSE to be Catholic (which is why I hate that it is so blanket done in churches, I hated seeing people say it and go through the motions and then never come again!). So, your DH would get that chance for the child to decide when the child is older, and you'd get your baptism because that is more of a charge to the parents to raise the child to become ready for Confirmation. And it blesses the child and wipes away original sin. Giving the child the chance to start "clean". :) Hope that helps!

LyLMyssChaos

08-09-2005, 01:46 PM

So, my question for you is this: Do you know what Christian churches do for infants? Do they have some kind of special ceremony to welcome them into the church?

Our church does not believe in original sin, so we do not baptize infants. We believe that man is only responsible for their own transgressions and it is not possible for a child to commit sin before they are old enough to know right from wrong. We deem the age of accountibility to be the age of 8 years old. That is the age at which children in our church are given the opportunity to be baptized and accept the gift of the Holy Ghost. If a child passes away before the age of accountibility we believe they are flawless spirits and will return to Heavenly Father in the highest light of celestial glory. We do however have a "naming and blessing" ceremony for a newly born infant. It is customarily done on fast Sunday and is performed most often by the child's father (when he is a priesthood holder,)when there is not one in the family, it can be a close friend, or other priesthood holder of the family's choosing. In this ceremony, the priesthood holder basically presents the child to the Lord, asks for a blessing to be placed on the child and introduces the child to the ward(our term for congregation.)

Elizabeth

08-10-2005, 04:42 PM

So anywho... :)

DiscoDiva - I Googled Joel Osteen and it does look like a lot of people consider him to be a cult leader. Interesting! Especially interesting because if he is, he's walking a really fine line - and apparently he's so popular!

What do you think of him?

DiscoDiva

08-10-2005, 05:42 PM

:confused: A cult leader? :confused: I don't see that at all! It's not like he is preaching something contrary to the Bible!

I really like him and I like the way he focuses on the positive. But, I do think that sometimes he tends to water down his message in order to not alienate people. But, isn't that better than people not getting the message at all?

mrs_pell

08-10-2005, 07:03 PM

Wow...I would definitely not consider Joel Osteen a "cult leader!" I didn't realize that people thought that of him! :confused:

lady1297...not picking on you, but I do have a serious question, and I'm asking you just because you're the one who's talking about this right now. There are plenty of people that share your beliefs, so really anyone could answer this question. You believe that you have to follow the commandments, and "live a good life," to go to Heaven. Do you have specific scriptures that you get those beliefs from? I know that when reading the Bible, so much of it can be interpreted different ways, which is why we have so many different beliefs out there. Since I'm asking for your scripture references, I'll give you mine for believing in salvation by grace and faith alone:

1)Ephesians 2:8-9 (already posted here, but can't hurt to post again): For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.”

2)Galatians 2:16: Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

3)Galatians 2:21: I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Others are Titus 3:5, Gal 3:26, Romans 5:1, Romans 6:23, and John 1:12.

Please know that I'm not bashing your beliefs. I've truly always wondered what passages there are to back up the beliefs that you (and many others) hold. Because, of course, going to a church that believes in Salvation by grace and faith alone, those are the verses that we learn.

lady1297

08-10-2005, 07:16 PM

mrs_pell: I don't want to ignore your question. But honestly, off the top of my head, I don't have an answer for you. Of course, it doesn't help that I've been sniffing paint fumes in my tiny guest room tonight and my brain is pretty fried from it ! :D I will take your question to heart tonight (once my brain clears) and try for a more coherent answer tomorrow than I would make tonight! :) Just for now, know that I don't feel attacked and that I don't take offense to the question. My Bible knowledge is probably pretty weak in comparison to what I've seen here already, so you'll have to bear with me. Also, much of my background comes from that which I was taught throughout my years of CCD and CYO. Also, I'm not at all saying that salvation isn't guaranteed to those that accept Jesus Christ. Let me sleep on it and become coherent. ;) Thanks!

Edited to ask: How do you find scripture passages online? Is there a site that will let me copy and paste?

mrs_pell

08-10-2005, 07:25 PM

First, sorry you're brain is fried from paint fumes! Those things can be dangerous! ;)

Second, thank you for not feeling attacked. Sometimes I hate message boards (and email) because it's really hard to get across what your thinking without losing the intended emotion or sincerity (as we've ALL witnessed on at least the WC!).

Third, my Bible knowledge is definitely not what it should be, or even what it used to be. A lot of times I know what verses I'm looking for, but can't remember where they are, so I google! ;)

Elizabeth

08-10-2005, 08:10 PM

Okay, I think I phrased it poorly. Not a cult leader per se, but someone who might be preaching heresy. I don't know anything about him, so I'm not endorsing these websites, this is just what I found when I 'Googled' him.

Discernment.org (http://www.discernment.org/LeavenLakewood.htm)
Iconbusters (http://www.iconbusters.com/iconbusters/docs/letter/letter.htm)
MyFortress.org (http://www.myfortress.org/JoelOsteen.html)
Cultlink (http://cultlink.com/ar/osteen.htm)

They assert that he preaches something called Word Faith which they believe is a distortion of the gospel.

I certainly would be wary of anyone who distorts the gospel. But I have no problem believing that God blesses his children - and sometimes he blesses us financially. That is one of the promises when we tithe - which is a whole other topic!

DiscoDiva

08-10-2005, 08:53 PM

Thank you for those articles! They point out exactly the things that do bother me about Joel:
The message that God wants to bless His children with complete physical health, to give them great financial wealth and to demand little of them regarding their spiritual life is a highly appealing message.
It bothers me because he basically says, do as God says, so you will get more back. Well, I believe that you do as God says because God says so, even if you don't get more back! You do as God says because it's the right thing to do. I noticed this a lot in Joel's book "Your Best Life Now." There are a lot of things in the book that are along these lines.

It's God's will for you to live in prosperity instead of poverty. It's God's will for you to pay your bills and not be in debt. It's God's will for you to live in health and not in sickness all the days of your life[
That's the kind of thing I also disagree with. We don't always know God's will. He may wish for us to live in sickness for a reason that we will never know. We may be in poverty for a reason that we will never understand! I think Joel needs to think about how to present those things, and mention more that we may face adversity, and it could be for a variety of reasons, such as God wanting us to grow in faith, God wanting us to become stronger, or for our suffering to be of use to others.

I like the way Joel has a positive message, but I agree that, in an attempt to not turn anyone off to the Word, he focuses too much on 'non-offensive' preaching, and in turn, may not tell the whole truth.

Osteen’s Christ takes extreme pleasure in blessing Christians with material blessings, those things beloved, esteemed and sought by the world.
This is a quote from another article that I aqree with. Joel needs to stop focusing on the material goods and blessings that we will receive if we give our life to the Lord, and focus on just doing it because it's the right thing to do. KWIM?
A Holy Ghost Prayer Pity Party to enlarge their borders is always a righteous cause, as they and their pastor stand by their steadfast, unswerving faith, arms held high, confessing it their sovereign birthright, according to God’s many promises, that they enjoy an even richer, less burdensome, tribulation-free, sickness-free, Christian life.
I like this quote as well. I read much like this in his book, too. It's like he 'tends' to think that Christians are better than other people, and deserve to have it all. I don't agree that we are better, nor do we deserve to have it all. We will get our great reward when we die!

Anyway, I could go on and on, since those Word Faith articles finally put into words the negative things I have been thinking about Joel. I just couldn't put my finger on what was bothering me, until now. Thanks Elizabeth!

annie_girl

08-10-2005, 09:06 PM

I don't know much about Joel Osteen at all. But I did click one of the links, and didn't read any more after reading this bit: If the price has already been paid and the sins forgiven every sinner ever born, as Osteen falsely preaches, then God is an unjust God who demands payment for sins twice: once by His innocent Son on the cross, who was punished in the stead of His people; then again from the non-accepting sinner whom He sends to Hell to undergo eternal punishment.

This is not false teaching by Joel, this is FALSE LEADING and trying to CONFUSE the reader here. I admit, it confused me at first, and I feel I am strong in my faith and knowledge of the bible. (not that I know EVERYTHING because I certainly don't even know 1/4 of the bible. But the parts that I know, I KNOW.)

Think of it as God is the judge in a courthouse, and you are the accused. God (the judge) is saying, "That's ok that you are guilty, you are forgiven, you are free." But you as the non-christian says, "I don't believe you. I don't believe IN you. You are not the judge of me. I am guilty, and I will go to jail thank you very much. In fact I can't wait to get to jail, all my friends are there, we will PARTY and haha to you." So the non-christian will go to jail willingly, because (s)he doesn't ACCEPT the free gift of GRACE (grace=forgiveness when you don't deserve it) from God. Little does the non-christian know, there are no parties in jail. It isn't a free for all. It is solitary confinement. A single cell, no light, no joy, no friends, no fun, NO PARTY. Yet they willingly chose to go there. (this is also straight from the bible. I can find references if necessary)

So based on the above, I don't believe that Joel is falsely preaching. The rest though, I don't know, because I didn't read any further. :)

DiscoDiva

08-10-2005, 09:12 PM

Welcome back annie_girl! *waving* How was your trip?

annie_girl

08-10-2005, 09:14 PM

It bothers me because he basically says, do as God says, so you will get more back. Well, I believe that you do as God says because God says so, even if you don't get more back! You do as God says because it's the right thing to do.

DD I agree with this, that I do as God says BECAUSE GOD SAYS SO, and because it is the right thing to do. But the bible DOES SAY the more you give, the more you will get back. It just may not be the way people expect. For example, if you give $XX to the church, don't expect a big beautiful house on the beach. However, give MORE than the standard $XX and you can expect a reward which can come in different forms. The bible says "Test me on this" (as giving to God, God will give you back) and in my life, it has definitely been true.

However, I also can't be greedy. I gave up my luxury car (luxury to me) and saved $100 per month with my current car, and I have been rewarded so many different ways. In this case, I am being a good steward of God's money. The reward is, this car has been very good for me in different ways (too long to get into it) If I gave that $100 I was saving to the church in the expectation that I would get back a bigger better fancier car than before, that would be wrong. So if that is what Joel teaches, I must disagree.

annie_girl

08-10-2005, 09:15 PM

the trip was FANTASTIC thanks!! I don't have time to type up a review of the trip right now because I spent my time reading this thread!!! :)

lady1297

08-11-2005, 04:40 AM

You believe that you have to follow the commandments, and "live a good life," to go to Heaven. Do you have specific scriptures that you get those beliefs from?

Okay, a bit clearer head today, I think! :) (Aren't paint fumes the WORST? And we had it very well ventilated! I don't know what's up with that!). Anyway, back on topic. Well. I believe that Jesus came to fulfill the law as given to Moses and to give us the reason to practice it-entrance into heaven. Oh, heck. Here, this says it better than I could:

The Master expressly taught that the observance of these(sic. moral precepts), inasmuch as they are prescribed by nature hersgelf, is necessary for salvation — "If thou wouldst enter into life keep the commandments", — those well-known precepts of the Decalogue. Of these commandments those words of His are especially true — "I came not to destroy the law but to fulfil it." This Christ did by insisting anew on the great law of charity towards God and man, which He explained more fully and gave us new motives for practising.
-http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09071a.htm

The Mosaic laws still exist. Therefore we are obligated to continue to follow it and the promise of Heaven to those who believe obligate us to care for all of God's people. And because of that I feel that it is an intigral part of gaining access to heaven. If non-christians, those who have not been exposed to the gospel will be judged by actions (I believe someone mentioned this earlier in regards to what happens to those who aren't exposed ie children and those living in say southeast africa), then shouldn't we? Why, just because we declare our acceptance of Jesus do we gain access, even if we live an immoral life, or a life of selfishness (yes, I see the readings you've given)? But it doesn't end with just accepting. We are still morally obligated to take care of God's people. For example, if we say we love someone, we want to care for them and in leiu of being able to care for them, we care for those they love. It is part of that love, the physical manisfestation of it. I love my husband and do things to show him that. If I never do anything to show him I love him, then do I really love him? Probably not.

The Divine command is set forth in the most stringent terms by Christ, and the failure to comply with it is visited with the supreme penalty of eternal damnation (Matthew 25:41): "Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, in everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. I was a stranger, and you took me not in; naked, and you covered me not; sick and in prison, and you did not visit me", etc.
-http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10198d.html

I guess that is my strongest argument for acts being as important as a single declaration of acceptance. Jesus stating that his people were not cared for and that leads to final damnation.

Does any of this make sense? I feel like I'm rambling now.

annie_girl

08-11-2005, 06:01 AM

You made perfect sense. Especially what you wrote about your husband. I never really thought of it that way before. I mean I believe it, but never thought of it THAT way. In fact now I want to elaborate on it. :) You know how they say "Actions speak louder than words" That is so true here as well. If you SAY you are a Christian but your actions don't show it, are you really a Christian? Obviously only God knows your heart, but we are also responsible for being accountable for our actions, as Christians, to show other Christians we really ARE Christians, but we are also accountable at showing non-Christians the way we act. This is what annoys me so much about stories that non-christians say like "But you Christians are all such hypocrites" or like "So-and-so professes to be a Christian and told me if I didn't start going to church I would burn in hell forever!" Not that I am saying I don't believe those stories (though sometimes I wonder ;) ) but I am annoyed by the actions of those professed Christians. Also I mentioned a friend of mine who said she was a Christian, so I began to talk to her like she was one (when she needed advice I offered a scripture relating to it) but then she went behind my back calling me a bible thumper, and stopped being my friend (without telling ME of course)

The problem here, of course, is the misunderstanding of the word Christian. In my 20's, I said I was a Christian because as a teenager I said to my mom once "I don't know, am I a Christian? I'm not exactly sure what it means!" And she said, "Well of course you are a Christian. You believe in God, don't you?" And I thought that's all there was to it. So I "said" I was a Christian. I was "A good person". But I never professed to believing in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour, (because I didn't know any better) and my other actions certainly didn't show Christianity. So I wonder how many people thought I was a hyporite all those years I said I was a Christian and went around being not at all Christ-like.

Back to "Actions speak louder than words". Basically Jesus tells us in the bible we must speak the words of our belief outloud (profess with your mouth) but we ALSO must follow through with our actions, including being baptised and following Jesus in all ways of our lives, and that is how we will be saved.

:D

edited to say: If someone on their dying bed decides to believe, and obviously doesn't have time to show fruit (good works) or get baptized, *I* believe they are saved. I feel I can safely judge a persons belief, but I cannot judge unbelief. Doesn't matter what I think anyway, God is the only judge. But because I cannot judge, I cannot say "so-and-so is going to hell".

And about that person (people) in Africa or whatever far off country, who hasn't heard of Jesus, this is what I believe (according to the bible). A person not hearing about Jesus is not a good excuse. Jesus commanded us to go forth and tell the world about Him. It's been 2000 years, and STILL the whole world doesn't know? It is our job as Christians to tell the world. If we believe that those that don't know will go to heaven simply because they haven't heard, what motivation do we have to tell them?

Think of it this way. "Joe" in africa hasn't heard of Jesus. If he dies tomorrow, some people think he will go to heaven since he hasn't heard. If an evangelical gets to him somehow before he dies tomorrow, and he DECLINES to believe, he will go to hell, right? Then therefore, wouldn't it be that evangelical's fault that "Joe" went to hell? If that were true, the evangelical shouldn't go forth and spread the word, lest people not believe and end up in hell. But then the evangelical isn't doing what God commands us to do. THEREFORE since God tells us to spread the word, WE MUST DO THAT and make sure that before Joe dies, he gets the opportunity to accept Jesus. If Joe declines, that is JOE'S fault, and that's why Joe will go to hell. If Joe goes to hell because WE didn't tell him, well then it is our fault, since God tells us specifically that we must tell everyone we know the good news.

Does that make sense?

DiscoDiva

08-11-2005, 08:16 AM

DD I agree with this, that I do as God says BECAUSE GOD SAYS SO, and because it is the right thing to do. But the bible DOES SAY the more you give, the more you will get back. It just may not be the way people expect. For example, if you give $XX to the church, don't expect a big beautiful house on the beach. However, give MORE than the standard $XX and you can expect a reward which can come in different forms.
But Joel doesn't present it this way. He basically says, Give more to your job, and you will get a better job. Or, if you want a better car, take care of the car you have, or even, give someone your car. If you want to make more money, give more of your's away. If you want nicer clothes, give some of your clothes away. He directly correlates what you give to getting the same thing (but better) from God in return. I've always had a problem with that.

I'm reading Joel Osteen's Your Best Life Now, and here are some quotes from the book that back up what I'm saying:
*"If you will start taking care of what God has given you, He'll be more likely to give you something better." p. 283
*"When you are generous to others, God will always be generous with you." p. 266
*"...God sees your gifts. He sees your acts of kindness. Every time you help somebody, God sees. And as with Cornelius, it pleases God when you give, and He will pour out His favor in a new way in your life." p. 264
*"Your generous gifts will come back to you." p. 262
*"You must be faithful with what you have, then God will trust you with more." p. 229
*"God always pays back abundantly." p. 168. (this is true, but Joel uses it to describe a business deal in which they got more money back than they put in to it. I don't think that's what "paying back abundantly" is supposed to mean!)

Joels focuses on "if you do this, God will give you this." Usually, he's talking about receiving tangible items such as money. I don't think that's the way it's supposed to be!

jenji

08-11-2005, 09:18 AM

Please know that I'm not bashing your beliefs. I've truly always wondered what passages there are to back up the beliefs that you (and many others) hold. Because, of course, going to a church that believes in Salvation by grace and faith alone, those are the verses that we learn.

first off, I'm so glad we have this forum where we can come together in the unity of our belief in Christ and not fight over our differences, but talk about why we believe what we do!

Ok, I know I'm not Lady1279, but I'd be happy to share my understanding of this and a few scriptures. I think this is something that a lot of people have a hard time with (myself included) because obviously salvation is terribly important and there are so many scriptures about it that *seem* at first glance contradictory.

for instance some scriptures that tell what saves us:
Matthew 24:12-13 – Standing firm
Mark 16:15-16 – Believing and being baptized
Luke 7:50 - Faith
Acts 16:30-31 – Believing in Christ Jesus
Romans 10:9-10 – confessing Jesus is Lord and believing he was raised from the dead
Romans 10:13-14 (Quoting Joel) - calling on the name of the Lord (also hearing and believing)
Ephesians 2:8-9 – Grace through faith
I Timothy 2:15-16 – childbearing (also faith, love and holiness)
I Peter 3:20-21 – baptism

Then you have ones that seem to contradict even these, like James 2:14-17:
What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

I think that we have to look at more than just a few scriptures and when 2 seem to contradict each other, you have to look at the context of who it was written to and the situation there and how the two might actually work together… otherwise some will say believing/faith alone saves, neglecting the passages that seem to contradict that (James 2:19 - You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder)
you can almost hear the sarcasm in James’ writing to an audience that thought believing alone was enough. Also the point of the entire book of Hebrews is to convince those Jews who had named Christ as their savior and followed him, but then decided that being persecuted wasn’t worth it and were going back to Judaism that Christ was worth it all… which makes me believe that the writer thought they would be in some danger by going back to their old ways. If not, why bother writing such a heart-wrenching argument for Christ? If believing alone was enough, they should have been ok since they believed in Christ.

More than that with the situation Christ describes in the sermon on the Mount in Matthew 7:21-23. He wasn’t even talking about people who just believed, he was talking to people who called on his name and prophesied and did miracles! -- "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

I think one passage, which is repeated throughout the Bible, that really gets at the heart of the matter is first recorded in Genesis 15:6. It’s repeated in the Old Testament and throughout the new and used to show that faith is necessary, but is shown/fulfilled through works and vice versa. I think James explains the unity of actions and faith best in chapter 2:20-22:
You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did
Paul uses the same passage throughout Romans 4 to show that we cannot EARN salvation, no matter how many works we do, because we will never be perfect under the law and one transgression under the law (if we can be saved by the law alone) is enough to condemn us.

Basically I don’t think there is a cut and dry answer that so many of us would like to have. Based on what I read in the Bible, I believe that salvation is a matter of a faithful heart constantly searching the scriptures and putting the commandments of Christ into practice (II Tim2:15 and John14:15) If we read the Bible with an open mind, I think the examples show through pretty clearly. Acts is a great book that documents the start of the church and what the first Christians did AFTER Christ’s resurrection [since until he died, they were still under the old law (Hebrews 9:15-18)]

Wow, this is getting really long. I’m sorry to go on and on and on, but I just want to say that anyone can prove anything looking at select bits and pieces, but we have to look at the Bible as a whole and see how it fits together and usually there’s a little more than initially meets the eye. It’s hard, ongoing work to dig through the scriptures and come out with a conclusion to the whole matter, but one thing we can probably all agree on are the summations listed in the Word: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man (Eccl 12:13) and Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and Love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:37-39) and ALL that goes along with those things

lady1297

08-11-2005, 10:22 AM

jenji- you saud MUCH better than I could! Thank you.

ptrecluse

08-11-2005, 12:20 PM

Wow Annie_girl you really know your stuff, I'm impressed. My beliefs totally align with what you wrote, very well written btw.

jenji

08-11-2005, 12:56 PM

Wow Annie_girl you really know your stuff, I'm impressed. My beliefs totally align with what you wrote, very well written btw.

ditto :)

Carissa

08-11-2005, 01:31 PM

Hi I would like to join. I am Carissa I was saved when I was 6. I was raised in a Christian home my Father was a Church planter until I was 11 then became a missionary. I had some trying times as a teen and rebelled a lot. It wasn't until I hit 17 that my relationship got back on track with Christ. My little sister went into cardiac arrest at 10 days old and God used that experience to get a hold on my life. I was in a bad relationship with a boy but he got my attention loud and clear. PTL! My sister now is thriving 8 year old. God has brought me closer to him through a lot of trying times and has used them in my life to glorify him. My husband and I have battled infertility and miscarriage which he has used in my life to "grow me up" in him. I was raised in a non-denominational home and my husband and I go to a Bible Church now. We just had our first child in May a true miracle in itself. Nice to "meet" ya!

Elizabeth

08-11-2005, 01:37 PM

Welcome Carissa!

Another ditto on Mrs Pell. You can be our Bible Study leader. ;)

ag-girl

08-11-2005, 02:06 PM

And about that person (people) in Africa or whatever far off country, who hasn't heard of Jesus, this is what I believe (according to the bible). A person not hearing about Jesus is not a good excuse. Jesus commanded us to go forth and tell the world about Him. It's been 2000 years, and STILL the whole world doesn't know? It is our job as Christians to tell the world. If we believe that those that don't know will go to heaven simply because they haven't heard, what motivation do we have to tell them?

Think of it this way. "Joe" in africa hasn't heard of Jesus. If he dies tomorrow, some people think he will go to heaven since he hasn't heard. If an evangelical gets to him somehow before he dies tomorrow, and he DECLINES to believe, he will go to hell, right? Then therefore, wouldn't it be that evangelical's fault that "Joe" went to hell? If that were true, the evangelical shouldn't go forth and spread the word, lest people not believe and end up in hell. But then the evangelical isn't doing what God commands us to do. THEREFORE since God tells us to spread the word, WE MUST DO THAT and make sure that before Joe dies, he gets the opportunity to accept Jesus. If Joe declines, that is JOE'S fault, and that's why Joe will go to hell. If Joe goes to hell because WE didn't tell him, well then it is our fault, since God tells us specifically that we must tell everyone we know the good news.

I believe we are called to spread God's word, but I also believe that all individuals have some knowledge of God and everyone has a choice whether to seek Him or not.

Romans 1:19-20
since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Deuteronomy 4:29
But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Acts 17: 26-27
From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.

Because so many do reject the knowledge of Him, it is important for us to share the Gospel.

Matthew 28:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

mrs_pell

08-11-2005, 06:13 PM

first off, I'm so glad we have this forum where we can come together in the unity of our belief in Christ and not fight over our differences, but talk about why we believe what we do!
<snip>
I think that we have to look at more than just a few scriptures and when 2 seem to contradict each other, you have to look at the context of who it was written to and the situation there and how the two might actually work together… otherwise some will say believing/faith alone saves, neglecting the passages that seem to contradict that.
<snip>
Basically I don’t think there is a cut and dry answer that so many of us would like to have.

I absolutely agree with all of the above! It's definitely frustrating at times to read verses that seem to contradict with other passages. Mark (my DH) has so many questions, and he's trying to figure out what he believes (he is not a Christian). One of the things that is so hard for him is the [apparent] contradictions. Basically, I just tell him that I believe that God will never allow his Word to be contradicting (and I know there's a verse that says something like that, but I have no idea where it is). It's up to us to study enough to figure out how it's NOT contradicting. :) I also think that you are absolutely correct in that we have to take the passages in the correct context. That's why I think going to church is so important. It's almost impossible for us all to know enough about the history, word roots, etc to be able to understand the full context. However, that's what our preachers go to seminary for. Their *job* is to learn all that, and to teach it to us. I'm always amazed at how our preacher can take a passage of 2-3 verses and teach me so much that I never knew about them. (disclaimer: I'm not saying that we shouldn't study for ourselves, but a lot of times, preachers are able to *help* us in our studies).

And, thank you for sharing why you believe what you do. I'm going to do some more reading on my own, especially the passages that you suggested. I still don't think that I agree with your beliefs, but I understand more why you hold them. :)

mrs_pell

08-11-2005, 06:18 PM

mrs_pell

08-11-2005, 06:37 PM

If non-christians, those who have not been exposed to the gospel will be judged by actions (I believe someone mentioned this earlier in regards to what happens to those who aren't exposed ie children and those living in say southeast africa), then shouldn't we? Why, just because we declare our acceptance of Jesus do we gain access, even if we live an immoral life, or a life of selfishness (yes, I see the readings you've given)? But it doesn't end with just accepting. We are still morally obligated to take care of God's people. For example, if we say we love someone, we want to care for them and in leiu of being able to care for them, we care for those they love. It is part of that love, the physical manisfestation of it. I love my husband and do things to show him that. If I never do anything to show him I love him, then do I really love him? Probably not.

Does any of this make sense? I feel like I'm rambling now.

Lady1297 ~ Glad your brain is better today! ;) And yes, you were making sense. Thank you for sharing.

I agree with Annie_girl in believing that non-Christians who have not been exposed to the gospel will not be judged differently than those who have been exposed. The verses that ag-girl posted are examples of why I believe this. I don't know if I truly understand how someone could know without ever hearing/reading the Word of God, but that's what He says, so I believe it. But, I do believe it is our responsibility to share it with as many people as we can (something that I need to work on, myself).

Your example of husband and wife is a good one, and part of the reason that I believe that if one is truly a Christian and loves God, then they will *want* to do good. I *want* to please my husband, and show him how much I love him. I don't think it's possible to love someone, and not want to please them. So, I actually use your example in a different way. If someone never does anything to please God, then maybe they aren't truly a Christian, and don't love God.

Now I'm the one who feels like I'm rambling. It's really hard for me to express how I feel sometimes. Especially since I haven't been very active in my faith the last several years. I'm so glad for this thread! :)

Oh, and on a totally different topic, we started a Bible study at work today. It's an 10 week Bible study by Beth Moore called "A Heart Like His." It's a study on the life of David. I'm so excited about it. I happened to mention something about starting one a few weeks ago, and now we have 17 people signed up (12 showed up tonight). Now that I'm typing this, I think I mentioned earlier that we were going to do it. Sorry! :o

lady1297

08-12-2005, 06:11 AM

Mrs Pell, the bible study sounds neat! You'll have to share a bit about it!

I guess I see your point about being judged. I guess we'll all find out one day, huh?! :)

BethElena

08-12-2005, 01:19 PM

I believe we are called to spread God's word, but I also believe that all individuals have some knowledge of God and everyone has a choice whether to seek Him or not.

Romans 1:19-20
since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Deuteronomy 4:29
But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Acts 17: 26-27
From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.

Because so many do reject the knowledge of Him, it is important for us to share the Gospel.

Matthew 28:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

ditto!

DiscoDiva

08-16-2005, 06:32 PM

New question for everyone: Does your faith affect your choices in entertainment, such as TV, movies, books, etc?

In the past few years, I've slowly started turning away from certain types of entertainment, which I would have enjoyed in the past. Basically, it seems that anything based on witchcraft is gone, anything 'evil' is gone, anything that focuses on the 'dark side' is gone, etc. On TV, I won't watch such shows as: Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Angel, or Charmed. I no longer read horror books or books by Stephen King (whom I used to love). I also won't watch any horror movies that are based on evil, ghosts, etc.

Part of me feels that it's not right to support such things, but the bigger reason for me is that I just don't want such negative things in my life anymore. I'd much rather read or watch something inspiring and uplifting.

When I told my niece that I don't watch those shows anymore, she said, "What do you think will happen, a portal to the other world will suddenly open?" :rolleyes: It's not about that, it's about the influence.

Am I the only one who feels this way?

JillyBean

08-16-2005, 09:17 PM

I checked into the thread earlier, but I've been out of town, so I've missed all the discussion. Hope you guys don't mind if I just jump right in :)

New question for everyone: Does your faith affect your choices in entertainment, such as TV, movies, books, etc?
I'd have to say yes and no. I'm drawn more to those with things that I can relate to better, and like you said, I'd much rather watch/read something uplifiting. I read more religious ficition now than I have before. I really enjoy books with Christian characters or about those on their road to becoming Christians. I get more out of it, but I still enjoy a good story, even if the character's faith isn't mentioned. I haven't read books with supernatural themes, but I have read ones with other things I don't agree with (premarital sex, for instance). When it comes to tv, I don't really follow shows like Buffy/Charmed/etc, but mainly because I could never get into them. They just don't appeal to me. With movies, I watch a wide range of stuff. I enjoy the Star Wars series, which is more "sci-fi", but it deals with the theme of good vs evil. If I can find a relatable theme or something I can identify with, I'm more likely to enjoy it, even if it deals with topics such as spirits, ghosts, supernatural, etc. I like horror movies, but just for the fun of getting scared ;) So I guess the long answer to that is yes and no. If I was selecting a movie/book/tv show to watch/read, I'd much rather watch/read something with positive themes. I hope I explained that to where it made sense ;)

jenji

08-17-2005, 06:00 AM

New question for everyone: Does your faith affect your choices in entertainment, such as TV, movies, books, etc?
I'd have to say I think my faith affects my choices in just about everything
it does influence what I watch, listen to and read. I just don't really have much desire anymore to put negative influences in. when I Was in high school I saw what being around the wrong influences (either in person or via various entertainment) had on me and my friend. I don't need any help in being human, I need help being more like Christ.

I guess I really made that decision when I really took to heart these verses:
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things (phil 4:8)
and
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. (Col 3:5-10)

BethElena

08-17-2005, 07:35 AM

New question for everyone: Does your faith affect your choices in entertainment, such as TV, movies, books, etc?

On TV, I won't watch such shows as: Buffy The Vampire Slayer, Angel, or Charmed.

I also do not watch these shows. To me, it's just a way to let Satan shoot his fiery little darts at me, and get me to accept these things as "okay." I avoid them.

DiscoDiva

08-17-2005, 07:43 AM

I also do not watch these shows. To me, it's just a way to let Satan shoot his fiery little darts at me, and get me to accept these things as "okay." I avoid them.
That's kind of how I view those things, but I know that to some people, that view seems extreme. I dunno, but I don't like the feeling of sitting in a blackened theater, watching something undescribably dark on the screen, feeling surrounded by evil. That, to me, is not fun. Plus, let's play the devil's advocate. Say you are Satan and want to get in the minds of people on Earth. Would you show up suddenly and scare the crap out of them, thereby alienating them? Probably not. Would you slowly work your way into their culture, through movies, TV shows, and books, especially those who show you as the person next door? Absolutely.

For the record, I also don't approve of magic, tarot cards, palm reading, crystal balls, etc., even when it's supposedly for fun. I also don't believe in horoscopes.

LyLMyssChaos

08-17-2005, 08:41 AM

New question for everyone: Does your faith affect your choices in entertainment, such as TV, movies, books, etc?

Oh my goodness, this has been a huge topic of conversation in our family. We stronly allow our faith and beliefs to affect what we view, read and listen to. I am a firm believer that if you watch things that the Holy Spirit finds offensive then you will not have it's companionship and you will become desensitized to it. A prime example that I use is to think back to when our parents/grandparents were children, so many things that they considered taboo and disgraceful, so much so that you would be exhiled for mentioning it, have become the topics of today's music, television shows, books and movies. There are even complete television channels dedicated to some of these topics on cable/satellite!!! A lot of people in our family feel we take it overboard, but it is their choice to watch/do what they like as I believe that Heavenly Father gave us all our own free agency, but in the same token, I have the same choice to avoid those things and keep them from my home. We just simply don't allow the things we find offensive in our homes and we don't purchase them for others. A question that is off tangent a little, but still related...Have any of you seen the SkyAngel networks?? We have a sort of sampler channel on our satellite and DH wants to order the package, but I was wondering if anyone else has seen it and likes it?

ptrecluse

08-17-2005, 09:32 AM

New question for everyone: Does your faith affect your choices in entertainment, such as TV, movies, books, etc?

Completely, I really try to guard my heart and mind from some of the negative influences that we are bombarded with in the media. We don't have cable so and we usually rent movies instead of watching tv. However, I do like some of the new shows like the new Dance show and Fear Factor (oh and desperate housewivesshhh! I never have like scary movies but I used to read books by James Patterson and Dean Koontz until I just felt convicted that I needed to read more uplifting books.

I usually listen to Christian radio since we have one that is music only and one that has various programs on it.

DiscoDiva pretty much stated it all in her posts. Most of my Chiristian friends and family however think I am nuts because we don't have cable and because we monitor what we watch and listen to. I'm of the school of thought that I'm am a role model to DD and those around me therefore I need to live by example.

Oh and btw we don't participate in Halloween activities.

ag-girl

08-17-2005, 02:04 PM

New question for everyone: Does your faith affect your choices in entertainment, such as TV, movies, books, etc?

To some degree, yes. I enjoy a healthy dose of reality tv and rock music and I don't think there is anything wrong with it. I applaude those that can totally turn away from tv, but it's not for me. I think there is a problem when it begins to consume you. For me, it's the more extreme things like porn that I agree we as Christians should stay away from.

Carissa

08-18-2005, 10:31 AM

New question for everyone: Does your faith affect your choices in entertainment, such as TV, movies, books, etc?

Yes it does. Even more so now that I have a daughter to set an example for. I have always enjoyed reading Christian fiction so that hasn't been a real issue for me but the TV has. I use to watch MTV a lot and some other shows but I was convicted on this issue so I have cut a lot of it out.

bethnjim

08-18-2005, 12:40 PM

New question for everyone: Does your faith affect your choices in entertainment, such as TV, movies, books, etc?

Yes, my faith very much affects my choices in entertainment. I have been sitting in movies before like American Pie very uncomfortable and feeling very convicted because it is not what I believe in at all! The language and sex is just appalling.

Also, I agree with DISCODIVA about the tarrot cards and horiscopes. I don't read them and DEFINITELY do not believe in them. My life is guided by God, not the stars!

DiscoDiva

08-18-2005, 04:21 PM

Hmmm.... I find American Pie quite funny! See, I don't mind bawdy humor, sex jokes, nasty language, etc. It's when evil forces enter into it that I draw the line.

Elizabeth

08-18-2005, 05:29 PM

Does my faith affect my entertainment choices? Somewhat. Maybe not as much as it should.

For the most part, I watch the shows everyone else is watching and I listen to secular music. But my favorite shows are Lost and House, neither of which has particularly offensive or anti-Christian content, IMO. Well, I don't know about Lost yet, since the big secret hasn't been revealed! The character of Dr. House doesn't have faith, but he is sometimes confronted by characters who do. Just like life. At least faith is getting some airtime.

There are some shows that I watch, but that do bother me on some level. I never got into Sex in the City. One b/c I didn't have HBO, but 2 b/c I knew it was glorifying promiscuity. Same thing w/ Friends. I guess I see myself being sort of divided in two. I sometimes watch shows and movies w/ questionable content, or listen to music w/ it, and part of me is just mindlessly listening, while a higher part of me is critiquing and telling my subconscious - this isn't okay. Just b/c it's on t.v. doesn't make it right. Does that make sense? I'm NOT saying that this is the right way to be a Christian, I'm just being really honest and candid with you guys.

I've never been able to get into Christian music b/c I think it's hokey. That's just me. I do like hymns and sacred music though. Classical. And I do love me some praise songs - but typically only live. The stylized versions on the radio bother me.

So, there it is. I live in the world, but I don't think I'm "of" the world, or at least that is what I strive for. I observe popular culture, critique it, sometimes enjoy it... but I don't think that Satan has got me in his talons over it. But I don't know.

I agree with you, DD, the occult stuff does bother me too. But not as much as other people. I've seen the Harry Potter films. I just don't think it's compromising my faith. It's fiction. I see it as such. I'm not going to go out and do magic.

What I do always stay away from are things like psychics, palm readers, etc. Now that I believe is directly channeling demons/Satan, and I steer clear. I guess I differentiate btwn fiction/entertainment and actually seeking the demonic IRL. I don't think I'm necessarily right in that assessment, but there it is.

bethnjim

08-19-2005, 10:33 AM

Hmmm.... I find American Pie quite funny! See, I don't mind bawdy humor, sex jokes, nasty language, etc. It's when evil forces enter into it that I draw the line.

That is funny because I don't mind the "evil forces" because I don't really believe in them. I think Harry Potter is fine...I think it is a story made up for entertainment purposes...just like the witch from Snow White. I think movies like American Pie are more offensive because of the language and sex that is involved. :D :D You can definitely see how many Christian religions differ over it and I always find it amusing when people discuss what they consider to be "evil".

DiscoDiva

08-19-2005, 11:11 AM

That is funny because I don't mind the "evil forces" because I don't really believe in them. I think Harry Potter is fine...I think it is a story made up for entertainment purposes...just like the witch from Snow White. I think movies like American Pie are more offensive because of the language and sex that is involved. :D :D You can definitely see how many Christian religions differ over it and I always find it amusing when people discuss what they consider to be "evil".
What exactly do you mean you don't believe in the "evil forces?" Do you mean you don't believe they exist at all? Or that they don't exist in TV, movies, books, and other forms of media? If that's the case, I agree. I don't think Satan himself is somehow 'in' the TV show Charmed.

My issue is that making magic, witchcraft, tarot cards, evil forces, etc, mainstream, it is desensitizing people to evil, and they may not recognize when it truly shows itself. Plus, the media makes evil look cool, and not harmful. That's kind of my point.

katmg

08-19-2005, 11:39 AM

Does my faith affect my entertainment choices? Somewhat. Maybe not as much as it should.

For the most part, I watch the shows everyone else is watching and I listen to secular music. But my favorite shows are Lost and House, neither of which has particularly offensive or anti-Christian content, IMO. Well, I don't know about Lost yet, since the big secret hasn't been revealed! The character of Dr. House doesn't have faith, but he is sometimes confronted by characters who do. Just like life. At least faith is getting some airtime.

There are some shows that I watch, but that do bother me on some level. I never got into Sex in the City. One b/c I didn't have HBO, but 2 b/c I knew it was glorifying promiscuity. Same thing w/ Friends. I guess I see myself being sort of divided in two. I sometimes watch shows and movies w/ questionable content, or listen to music w/ it, and part of me is just mindlessly listening, while a higher part of me is critiquing and telling my subconscious - this isn't okay. Just b/c it's on t.v. doesn't make it right. Does that make sense? I'm NOT saying that this is the right way to be a Christian, I'm just being really honest and candid with you guys.

I've never been able to get into Christian music b/c I think it's hokey. That's just me. I do like hymns and sacred music though. Classical. And I do love me some praise songs - but typically only live. The stylized versions on the radio bother me.

So, there it is. I live in the world, but I don't think I'm "of" the world, or at least that is what I strive for. I observe popular culture, critique it, sometimes enjoy it... but I don't think that Satan has got me in his talons over it. But I don't know.

Yup - this is pretty much how I am. I have a much bigger problem with the promescuity and violence shown on t.v. than I do occult images. I think the sex, drugs and violence (SDV) shown on t.v. is a much bigger problem with its influence on people today than "magic." I think there is much more evil in desensitizing us to the images of SDV than there is to reading Harry Potter or watching Charmed.

I don't know though. I know this isn't necessarily the "right" way for a Christian to feel, but that's my opinion currently.

DiscoDiva

08-19-2005, 11:48 AM

I have a much bigger problem with the promescuity and violence shown on t.v. than I do occult images.
Interesting, I'm the exact opposite. But, that doesn't mean I love what's in the media these days! Most of the sex scenes, nudity, foul language in music, etc., are so unnecessary. It's a shame that this generation is growing up so desensitized to those things as well. Plus, they think that seeing/hearing it in the media makes it okay. :(

katmg

08-19-2005, 12:24 PM

I think that's why I have more a problem with it - I see it having a greater influence on today's kids than the occult images. That may not be true, but that's my perception.

"Kids today" is a whole other thread though! Don't even get me started on that one! ;)

mlfallis

08-19-2005, 01:04 PM

OK here it goes.

I have been reading this thread over the past few days to get caught up on everything before I posted, while I then realised that is crazy there is way to much.

Any was I am here to introduce myself and request to join :o .

This is a werid out of character thing for me today however things in my life lately are telling me to join this thread. I grew up in a United Church and attend quite frequently until Grade 9/10. I then got a weekend job and moved away to University and really did not attend at all until about second year university when I can home with my then BF now FH. That was in 2002. My FH I guess is more vocal about their faith than my family and goes to church quite a bit more. Not that I am saying you must go to church to believe, I am just saying. I feel like those years away from church I forget alot of stuff and kinda back slide a bit. I don't think going to FH church really helped since the first thing the main pastor told me was all the things that were wrong with my previous church and how he questioned if United CHurch ministers even believed :rolleyes: . Not a great welcoming to someone already being to re search about my faith.

Then about 2 sunday's ago the Associate Pastor ask my FH and I if we would help with the junior high group on Wednesday nights. WE say we would be interested and had a meeting at his house with him and his wife. They made me feel quite a bit better and made me actually want to become a part of their church family.

I don't really no scripture or could even begin to quote it, but I am hoping to explore and learn more with you guys, that is if you will let me.

Thanks for reading my story.

Elizabeth

08-19-2005, 01:39 PM

I don't really no scripture or could even begin to quote it, but I am hoping to explore and learn more with you guys, that is if you will let me.

Absolutely! Welcome Melissa! Don't worry, being able to quote scripture is not a requirement of joining this community! I am glad that the Holy Spirit prompted you to find us and to post!

ag-girl

08-19-2005, 03:40 PM

Welcome Melissa! Glad you decided to post here.

biblegateway.com is a huge help in looking up scripture!

katmg

08-19-2005, 04:51 PM

Welcome Melissa!

I certainly can't quote scripture! I like this group b/c I really learn a lot about others views on Christianity. Some things I took as a given, weren't.

LyLMyssChaos

08-20-2005, 08:10 AM

Melissa,
Welcome to the group! Trust me, I am far from one to be quoting scriptures (especially because I base a lot of my beliefs on the books of scripture that are specific to my faith and there aren't many here who are of my faith.) That is so not a requirement though. I mean, I see this thread as a place where those of us that love, follow and accept Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ into our lives as our Lord and Savior to fellowship and feel somewhat protected. I think that it is a wonderful spot for Christians of all denominations, to put the specifics of their individual religions behind them and just celebrate the common love that we all have for our Lord. I think so many times in life, we as christians get so caught up in specifics of what "our church believes" that we forget what is really important in the eyes of Heavenly Father; that we are loving, giving, caring people who try our best to follow his and Christ's teachings. It doesn't matter if you go to church 6 times a week in a huge cathedral, or if you attend once a week in your neighbor's backyard, or even if you consider worship to be getting on your knees in your own home. What matters is that we are Christians and in today's world, this group is getting smaller and smaller and we need to stand together to see that in the end "good" prevails (for lack of a less cheesy term!) :)

mlfallis

08-22-2005, 05:23 AM

Thanks everyone for the welcome. I look forward to exploring and discussing everything with you.

MrsSmith

08-22-2005, 06:18 AM

I'm a Christian and wanted to introduce myself in the thread.

bethnjim

08-22-2005, 07:00 AM

What exactly do you mean you don't believe in the "evil forces?" Do you mean you don't believe they exist at all? Or that they don't exist in TV, movies, books, and other forms of media? If that's the case, I agree. I don't think Satan himself is somehow 'in' the TV show Charmed.

I just don't believe that kids watching Harry Potter or shows like Charmed will make them believe in magic/tarrot cards/evil spirits. I believe that the devil does have evil spirits on the earth, but I believe as a Christian that those evil spirits cannot harm me because I have Jesus abiding in me. I guess I would rather my future kids watch Harry Potter than a movie like American Pie because I feel that American Pie is making sex, foul language, nudity, promiscuity, etc look cool.

DiscoDiva

08-22-2005, 07:16 AM

bethnjim, I get what you're saying. My thing is that I don't like the way magic, new age things, and evil are so much a part of many forms of 'entertainment,' that people are getting immune to it. That's scary!

New question for everyone: Do you 'celebrate' Halloween? I don't have a problem with Halloween. But, I don't 'do' witches or ghosts. Weird, huh? But, other costumes, pumpkins, candy, and cobwebs are fine by me. I do hand out candy to the neighborhood kids.

LyLMyssChaos

08-22-2005, 07:30 AM

New question for everyone: Do you 'celebrate' Halloween?

We celebrate Halloween, but with rules. We don't celebrate, witches, ghosts, monsters, or anything scary. We don't use masks and all costumes must be "lighthearted," ala pumpkins, cartoon characters, firefighters, etc. Our kids will not be trick or treating, but we have a HUGE party at church where the kid's get dressed up and go from room to room that families have decorated and do their trick or treating there. I feel so much safer knowing who and where the treats my children are receiving are coming from.

LyLMyssChaos

08-22-2005, 07:32 AM

I'm a Christian and wanted to introduce myself in the thread.
No way MrsSmith!! You are so not allowed! :p I tell ya, as many threads as we are joining in that are the same, I hope we get along on Saturday! LOL

mlfallis

08-22-2005, 07:32 AM

New question for everyone: Do you 'celebrate' Halloween?

I guess I celebrate Halloween. I grow pumpkins to put out front and I hand out candy, but only have 5 kids that come to my house. I however, do not like Devil's night and have never been apart of it.

al'sgirl

08-22-2005, 08:00 AM

New question for everyone: Do you 'celebrate' Halloween?

I've never been really fond of Hallowe'en, but I think it more that I hated dressing up when I was a kid. I was pretty shy, so going to strangers houses didn't seem like much fun to me :)

Our church has a "Harvest" party on Hallowe'en night for the kids. "Harvest" instead of a hallowe'en party to draw the attention away from the basis of the evening, while giving them an alternative activity. It's a pretty good idea.

That said, my DH and I still stay at home and greet our trick-or-treaters with our black cat :)

ptrecluse

08-22-2005, 12:50 PM

Not anymore, a few years ago we did but DD had said that something scared her the last time we went. Personally, I just dislike the whole thing and how some people behave on this day.

Elizabeth

08-22-2005, 02:19 PM

I don't really "celebrate" Halloween much since I don't have kids. Sometimes we'll have/go to a party. Usually they just involve costumes, dressing up, carving pumpkins, etc. I grew up in a Christian home and we "celebrated" Halloween, but I wasn't allowed to be anything "scary" aka "Satanic." I never wanted to be, anyway, so that wasn't a problem. I had some friends who's parents didn't let them celebrate it, so when I'd have Halloween parties, we'd call them Harvest parties and just play up the Fall theme.

Autumn is my favorite season, so I like that aspect of it. The pumpkins and gourds and Indian corn. Once I have a house and kids I imagine I'll decorate w/ harvest stuff - not witches and ghosts. I'll go w/ them trick or treating and I will try to protect them from the "evil" aspects of it. I will explain to them the history of Hallow e'en, All Hallow's Eve. I'll tell them that some people focus on the evil side of it, but our family stays away from that stuff. Just like the commercialism of Christmas, I will retain the things I love about the holiday and discard what I don't.

charliezangel

08-23-2005, 06:02 AM

i try not to dwell on the meaning of this day. I realize that it was a "satanic" holiday at one point, and sure there are certain clans still out there that celebrate it for this reason. But the meaning has been lost in the ritual of dressing up and getting candy. I take my brothers trik-or-treating in their neighborhood every year. My mom has basicly made a rule with them that their costmes cannot be satanic or scary (ie witches, monsters, bloody bodies...etc...) and that they only go to houses of peope we know. They know a lot of people in the neighborhood, so we hit about 10 houses, and then head back and sort through the candy. At a church they used to go to, they had a party on halloween called Trunk-or-Treat. The people in the church would bring their cars to the church parking lot and decorate them as bible stories (my dad did the "firey furnace" one year and the kids had to say "i will not bow" in order to get candy. it was really cute) and fill up their trunks with candy. then they would go to each car and get their treats. I thought it was a great idea.

lady1297

08-23-2005, 06:30 AM

Hmmm, Halloween. Hate it, was scared and too shy as a child to want to knock on someone's door for a treat. Made my brother do it for me :D . LOVE Autumn though. I never was a fan of witches and such. So, I avoid it. I do hand out candy though (don't want my house egged) and will let DS dress up in "cute" costumes (probably made by me or my mom). Like this year he'll be a little dinosaur. I used to decorate my yard with silly tombstones (Billy was a little boy, billy is no more, for what he thought was H20 was really H2SO4), but stopped doing that a few years ago cause no one got it anyway. I'd go to an autumn party on Halloween in a heartbeat. Oh, and I do celebrate All Soul's Day and All Saints Day (celebrating and remember the deceased in the family) at church. I think that's important and it brings a religious connotation to the holiday.

cocoa_femme

08-23-2005, 08:45 AM

Hi, there! I'm a christian and wanted to introduce myself. I was raised in the church. I also come from a family of ministers.

DiscoDiva

08-23-2005, 09:18 AM

i try not to dwell on the meaning of this day. I realize that it was a "satanic" holiday at one point, and sure there are certain clans still out there that celebrate it for this reason.
To my knowledge, it was never a satanic holiday, and it was a day to dress up scary to scare away any evil spirits. I don't think it was ever to welcome evil spirits.

Origins from: http://theholidayspot.com/halloween/history.htm Italics are mine.

Halloween, or the Hallow E'en as they call it in Ireland , means All Hallows Eve, or the night before the 'All Hallows', also called 'All Hallowmas', or 'All Saints', or 'All Souls' Day, observed on November 1. In old English the word 'Hallow' meant 'sanctify'. Roman Catholics, Episcopalians and Lutherians used to observe All Hallows Day to honor all Saints in heaven, known or unknown. They used to consider it with all solemnity as one of the most significant observances of the Church year.

the American version of Halloween Day celebration owes its origin to the ancient (pre-Christian) Druidic fire festival called "Samhain", celebrated by the Celts in Scotland, Wales and Ireland. Samhain is pronounced "sow-in", with "sow" rhyming with cow. In Ireland the festival was known as Samhein, or La Samon, the Feast of the Sun.

In Scotland, the celebration was known as Hallowe'en. In Welsh it's Nos Galen-gaeof (that is, the Night of the Winter Calends. According to the Irish English dictionary published by the Irish Texts Society: "Samhain, All Hallowtide, the feast of the dead in Pagan and Christian times, [i]signalizing the close of harvest and the initiation of the winter season,[i] lasting till May, during which troops (esp. the Fiann) were quartered. Faeries were imagined as particularly active at this season. From it the half year is reckoned. also called Feile Moingfinne (Snow Goddess).

This was written by a pastor, here: http://www.new-life.net/halowen1.htm
Contrary to Christian criticism from many sources, Halloween did not originate as a Satanic festival, but was religious in nature (of course, the religion I am referring to is the Celtic faith of the ancient Druids rather than Christianity). This is an important distinction, for Halloween’s association with Satanic worship is a modern phenomenon. The Celts didn't worship the devil (or any god of death) on Halloween.

The pumpkin is a New World plant that never grew in Europe until modern times, so it couldn't have been used to make jack-o-lanterns by the Druids.

There's zero evidence that the ancient Druids or their congregants ever dressed in costume or engaged in ritualized begging at harvest time.

We do have records of costumed processions in a much later time (Christian times), but these costumed processions were NOT limited to the Halloween holiday. They appear much more frequently at Christmas. The earliest actual historic practice seems to have been poor folk in masks and costumes going from house to house. They would put on a simple play or musical performance in return for food and drink. This practice is called mumming or guising and has no discernable connection to the Celts.

The actual phrase "trick or treat" is not Druidic! The oldest citation in print dates only to 1939! The phrase is not recorded by the Merriam-Webster Company until 1941. And the term is actually American, not European (Halloween and Other Festivals of Death and Life, p. 47,86-90)!

It's not only the phrase that is American, the practice is too! In America in the late 1800s and early 1900s, there was a custom of playing pranks on Halloween. This custom appears to have come from immigrants from Ireland and Scotland which had a practice called Mischief Night. Favorite pranks included tipping over outhouses and unhinging fence gates (Charles Panati, Extraordinary Origins of Everyday Things). The pleasant fiction was that such rambunctiousness was the work of "fairies," "elves," "witches" and "goblins" (Halloween and Other Festivals of Death and Life, p. 87). That's the "trick" part of Halloween.

"By the turn of the century, Halloween had become an ever more destructive way to “let off steam” for crowded and poor urban dwellers. As Stuart Schneider writes in 'Halloween in America' (1995), vandalism that had been limited to tipping outhouses; removing gates, soaping windows and switching shop signs, by the 1920’s had become nasty -- with real destruction of property and cruelty to animals and people. Perhaps not coincidentally, the disguised nighttime terrorism and murders by the Ku Klux Klan reached their apex during this decade. Schneider writes that neighborhood committees and local city clubs such as the Boy Scouts then mobilized to organize safe and fun alternatives to vandalism. School posters of the time call for a “Sane Halloween.” Good children were encouraged to go door to door and receive treats from homes and shop owners, thereby keeping troublemakers away. By the 1930’s, these “beggar’s nights” were enormously popular and being practiced nationwide, with the “trick or treat” greeting widespread from the late 1930s."

Every year, right around Halloween, we are treated to an outpouring of literature making false statements about the origins of Halloween. (In years past, I even helped distribute this type of literature to my congregation.) But my research on this subject has found that the Christian Halloween literature is vastly mistaken. Christians are guilty of spreading falsehood (perhaps out of ignorance, but falsehood none the less). Believers do no service to God or to other Christians by creating very frightening fantasies masquerading as historical facts. Sloppy and improper scholarship makes Christians look deceitful. It also makes God appear deceptive to unbelievers.

lady1297

08-23-2005, 03:17 PM

Elizabeth

08-23-2005, 05:35 PM

Lady1297, Oh no. I'm so sorry to hear that. I will pray for her and for your family. Keep us posted. =(

DD - Thank you so much for posting that fascinating article about the origins of Halloween.

I kinda think that Satan lurks in other less obvious places. Yes, if you go knocking at hell's door, something is going to answer, (as the preview for that movie says). But I think Satan's presence is found in things that look benign. Such as secular humanism. For instance, how many times have I not shared the Gospel with someone b/c I didn't want to be perceived as a holy roller? How many times has Christ been taken out of Christianity? (The just-be-a-good-person school of thought.) Jesus is not PC. And to me, that's scarier than a witch costume. Here's a good analogy - look at cults. In most cases, Satan doesn't sway people away from the Gospel w/ something that looks obviously morally wrong, but rather something that looks holy and pious. Most people know that messing with the Satanic is not a good idea. Is Satan going to use Halloween to trip us up, or is he going to use more subtle (and therefore more acceptable) measures to dethrone God in our lives?

There's that movie quote from The Usual Suspects - something like, the best trick the devil ever did was convince the world that he didn't exist. Coming from Hollywood, that's actually a pretty solid piece of insight! But I think Satan's most used trick is to try to convince us that we don't need God.

lady1297

08-23-2005, 05:37 PM

Thanks Elizabeth! Will keep y'all posted as soon as I know anything, but it may take awhile. :)

DiscoDiva

08-23-2005, 07:17 PM

Lady, I said a prayer for your goddaughter.

I'm sure you have all heard, by now, the inane comment Pat Robertson made about killing Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. He said that killing Chavez, an ally of Cuban leader Fidel Castro, would be "a whole lot cheaper than starting a war," Robertson said. He said, "I think we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war," Robertson said during Monday evening's broadcast of "The 700 Club," his Christian news-talk television show. "We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability."

What was he thinking? Since when did Christians advocate killing others? What happened to the 10 Commandments? I am so disappointed in Pat Robertson. So many non-Christians already say that Christians are hypocrites, and this comment didn't help!

lady1297

08-24-2005, 04:51 AM

Thanks DiscoDiva!

Yes, I heard about the comment just a few minutes ago. Pretty sad. I guess that's why I don't turn to priests for political advice and politicians for moral advice!! :) Actually I think the whole idea is just absolutely disturbing, to think that anyone would advocate killing another political leader instead of trying them in a court. It's one thing in a war if the leader gets killed, (not advocating wars, but I can't control them or stop them just because I want them and sometimes the ends are much better). but it's another when you just send an assasin in to take car of the job.

mlfallis

08-24-2005, 05:41 AM

lady1297: Your family and niece are in my thoughts and prayers. Hopefully everything will be fine again soon.

al'sgirl

08-24-2005, 07:06 AM

lady1297 ... I'll be praying for your niece and family as well.

LyLMyssChaos

08-24-2005, 07:50 AM

My neice/god daughter is not doing well. She's 15 months older and is not gaining weight. She is less than 18 lbs and has only gained 2 oz in 6 weeks. Not good. The doctor finally referred her to a pediatric gastroenterologist and feels that she has a metabolic block. This is really not good. She eats like a teenage boy and isn't gaining. I'm real worried and so are her parents. They've been giving her EVERYTHING. Pediasure, Ensure, Carnation Instant Breakfast, fast food, anything to fatten her and it's just not working at all. Please say a prayer for her that she starts to gain and/or that the problem is found and is fixed. She's such a joy and a sweetie. I'm broken hearted.

As a mother of a "tiny" child, I want to let you know that she is in our prayers, but I would definitely have her parents take her to another pediatrician for a second opinion. My DD was 6 lbs when she was born, and did not break the 20 pound mark until she was 2 years old. She would go months without gaining anything at all. In fact, she weighed the same thing at 21 months, that she did at 12 months, it was only in the last few months that she started gaining weight, and now in just the last 3 months, she has gained 5 pounds! She eats just as much as husband does and frequently can outeat me, she just has a really fast metabolism apparently. So it may be that there is absolutely nothing wrong with your niece. Our society is just so used to seeing chunky kids, they are shocked to see a tiny one. In fact, everyone else kept telling me how tiny my daughter was (at her first birthday party, she wore an outfit that was sized 3-6 months) and her pediatrician said not to worry, this was just the size she was supposed to be, and that her body would grow when it is ready to. And I think we have finally hit that point, but I spent many a night worrying until we did. And to give you a contrast? My son, who just turned 4 months old, is already 20 pounds and 27 inches long, while my daughter that is 25 months old is 25 pounds and 33 inches. It just goes to show ya, that even in the same family, every kid is different!

lady1297

08-24-2005, 04:25 PM

Thanks for all the prayers everyone. We are hoping it's nothing, but it's something that we all feel isn't good, but will be.

LyLMyssChaos
Thank you so much for your personal story. We do understand that it could be nothing, but she is just dropping percentiles left and right and is growing in height but not weights, so she's VERY tiny. My SIL is seeing a pediatric gastroenterologist with my neice on Sept 13th and we hope that will shed some lite on things. We just want to cover all our basis early on in order to prevent and/or stop any problems that this may cause long term. I'll pass your story on, though, to SIL.

mrs_pell

08-25-2005, 06:55 PM

Hey everyone. I was just talking to Lex (annie_girl) on IM, and she asked me to post this urgent prayer request for her. Her grandfather is in the hospital with heart problems. He has an artery that is 100% blocked, but his heart is not strong enough for surgery, so she's not sure if there are any options to help him at this point. Please keep Lex's grandfather, her, and her families in your prayers!

JillyBean

08-25-2005, 07:05 PM

I'll be praying. Hopefully they can do something for him.

Elizabeth

08-27-2005, 05:18 PM

I'm praying too.

annie_girl

08-29-2005, 02:59 PM

Thanks for the prayers!! Grampa had an emergency triple bypass :eek: on Friday, and by Saturday morning he was sitting up asking for things!! Thanks for the prayers everyone!! He's still in critical condition, but no longer in ICU. My grandmother is worried so much, she keeps thinking he will just stop breathing. So please continue to pray for my grandfather (Bob) and now my grandmother as well (Betty). She tends to stress out so much when he's sick, that by the time he's better, she's so exhausted she ends up in the hospital!!! :eek:

question for everyone: Does your faith affect your choices in entertainment, such as TV, movies, books, etc?
Part of me feels that it's not right to support such things, but the bigger reason for me is that I just don't want such negative things in my life anymore. I'd much rather read or watch something inspiring and uplifting.

I feel EXACTLY the same way!!

As for halloween, I decided just last year that I won't be celebrating anymore. As for this year, who knows. If there is a "costume party" one of my friends is having, that is not filled with scary and/or evil undertones (none of my friends have that anyway) then I will go. The last few years (before last year) I went to Busch Gardens' halloween thing, and it was so filled with EVIL stuff, it truely scared me. I mean this wasn't just "BOO!" and stuff, it really was filthy evil stuff. That convinced me to end my halloween celebrations.

I'll continue though, to take advantage of the after halloween candy sales. :D

Unless I can control myself and stay away from it. Hopefully this year I will be able to. :D

Elizabeth

08-29-2005, 04:16 PM

DiscoDiva

08-29-2005, 05:18 PM

Hi guys. I'm currently dating a guy who isn't a Christian. I know it's not a good idea. I haven't fully shared my faith with him yet. I'm scared. I'm also scared to let him know my sexual boundaries. I need your prayers. Thank you!
Why says it's not a good idea? Maybe you were sent to him for a reason. Prayers for you to stand strong in your faith as your relationship progresses and for him to respect your faith and be open to it. (and a pic of your cutie would be nice too!)

DiscoDiva

08-30-2005, 09:45 AM

Cute!! He looks kinda like Adam Sandler in that pic. (a compliment cuz I think Adam Sandler is so cute!) I'd invite him to the bible study.

BethElena

08-30-2005, 11:10 AM

Elizabeth - my DH was not a christian when i met him. My parents told me that it was an unwise choice, because he would pull me away from my faith. So, I had a long talk with him, and shared my beliefs. A few months later, in April 1999, he became a christian because he felt that i had something in my life that he was missing. We have been together since. BUT, it would have been very easy for me to fall away from my faith. I'm not saying that you will fall away or anything, just wanted to share my experience. :)

I'd take DD's suggestion of inviting him to the Bible study. Then go from there....

HEY! I KNOW HIM! just joking :)

ptrecluse

08-30-2005, 11:14 AM

Elizabeth- I totally know your new potential BF ;)

Just kidding! He is cute though.

added: BethElena stole my joke, that is what i get for typing so slowly.

annie_girl- I'm glad your grandpa is doing better, I will keep both of your grandparents in my prayers.

lady1297 - I will keep your goddaughter in my prayers and hope that the doctors will find out what is wrong and treat it swiftly.

I have a praise report: This past week we have been on a much needed vacation. We spent a week camping and biking in the mountains and lounging around by the water. FH and I spent a lot of time talking about the problems we have been having and the lack of communication that has been going on. I told him how it made me feel when he puts down me going to church and how all of this affects DD. I think he finally realized the errors of his ways and has made a huge turn around. He realized that he has been taking his frustrations out on me and in turn it affects DD and her emotional well being. He agreed to work on some on his part of the issues. He hates confrontation and tends to run when he should stand up and defend us. Last night he did and not only was I proud of him but he felt good about himself afterward.

I know it may seem like no big deal but for him it is huge. I allows people to walk all over him and us all the time. He finally confronted his mom and why she likes to pretend that DD and I don't exist and why after 8 years she still doesn't now or even care that I actually have a birthday. She tried to gloss over everything but he finally stood up to her after so many years and he realized that it was a long time coming and easier than he imagined.

Also, I am about 3 weeks from quitting my current job. Last summer we started our own business and it has been so slow going. We just landed to really great accounts that will keep me to busy to hold down a full time job and do the necessary work needed to service them properly.

I am just so thankful to God for all His blessings. Thanks ladies for reading

BethElena

08-31-2005, 07:20 AM

ptrecluse - i understand where you are coming from. I will keep you, DD & FH in my prayers. we are going through a situation now with one of DH's aunt's who is being psycho, and she tried to distrupt our honeymoon.... I am glad that your FH is working on making changes. Sometimes you just need that break from what is all going on to relax together and talk things out.

annie-girl: praise God! I hope all is going well with the family...

lady1297

09-01-2005, 04:36 AM

Congrats BethElena!!

BethElena

09-01-2005, 07:24 AM

Thanks, lady1297!

DiscoDiva

09-01-2005, 08:15 AM

Tomorrow I will begin working at a Red Cross Evacuation Shelter for hurricane victims. I hope I can be uplifting and helpful. I imagine what I see will bring me to tears, but I hope I do the very best I can.

mlfallis

09-01-2005, 08:30 AM

DD: I will be praying for you with all the other workers and the victims.

DiscoDiva

09-01-2005, 08:35 AM

Please see my thread here if you would like to donate to my church. I will personally see that the money is spent on supplies!

http://www.constantchatter.com/showthread.php?t=5823&goto=newpost

Carissa

09-01-2005, 09:19 AM

Prayer request: I am having gallbladder surgery on the 6th. Would appreciate your prayers. Surgery always makes me nervous no matter how little it may be.

DD Praying for you as you bless others through your outreach.

Elizabeth

09-01-2005, 10:10 AM

Carissa - Good luck. You will be in our thoughts and prayers.

I second that we need to pray hard for the people struck by Katrina. I cannot believe the devistation. It makes me so sad and anxious I can barely watch the coverage, so I really admire you DD for volunteering at an evacuation shelter! (And everyone else who is too.) I bet it will feel so good to be able to help. God will bless you so richly for that. Come back and tell us how it goes.

Elizabeth

09-05-2005, 08:39 PM

I got this in an e-mail forward, and thought you guys might appreciate it. It makes me sad that if I posted it elsewhere on this site, I would probably get royally flamed.

AND WE SAID OKAY

This one will make you think

In light of the many perversions and jokes we send to one another for
a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a
joke, it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane
Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?"
(regarding the attacks on Sept. 11).

Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She
said, "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but
for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out
of our government and to get out of our lives.

And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How
can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we
demand He leave us alone?"

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc.
I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her
body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools,
and we said OK.

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school . the Bible
says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor
as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they
misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we
might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We
said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why
they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to
kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.

Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it
out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the
world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say,
but question what the Bible says.

Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like
wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord,
people think twice about sharing.

Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through
cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school
and workplace.