Under Appreciated Child Care Providers!

[BlackMagicRose]

How depressing is this??

Under Appreciated Child Care Providers (http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20070509/cm_usatoday/nanniestheothermothersoverlookedandundervalued)

I was a child care provider for three years. In the end, I was making only $8.90 an hour and I have a BS degree. I will be making about the same amount again if I get the nanny job here. I really feel under appreciated. Maybe, if I move back to the US, I will start a union! :p What do you really think of child care providers and what should they get paid a year???

[BethIrish]

We use an in-home daycare - she charges $5/hour per child. ($6 if the child is there part time.) In essence, she makes around $15-20 an hour because she has 4 kids there. (Only 2 are there full time.)

Funny you should post this, because I was thinking this AM that I should get her some flowers from DS on Friday as a "thank you."

[BlackMagicRose]

Beth, I imagine she is also paying some type of insurance for running an in home day care as well, so although she is getting paid well, she has other expenses to worry about. It is very cool that you found her though. I am thinking of doing the same thing myself when I have my own children (running an in home day care that it).

It would be so nice if you got her something. I loved it when parents showed their appreciation. It made me feel so good!

In my honest opinion experienced Day Care Providers should be getting paid at LEAST $520 a week. That would be $13 an hour for an experienced child care provider. A degree should make you worth at least $15 an hour, but I think everyone should be getting paid at least $9.50 and hour.

[BethIrish]

Oh - absolutely, she has expenses that come out of that hourly rate. She also pays taxes etc. So I realize her "actual" pay is less than the $20/hour.

I understand your suggestion of more pay, but in all honesty I don't know any market that would support that rate. (Especially if you are suggesting that it should be $520/child/week. My daycare provider would be making almost $100,000 year on that, pre-expense/pre-tax.) If I were paying someone to watch my child/children alone, in my house - then yeah, I can see it. But not for an in home daycare or center. I honestly think our current provider is fairly compensated - we also pay for her 3 weeks of vacation, holidays and for when DS isn't there.

Oh, I definitely will be getting her something :) We gave her a gift card for her birthday, so I think it will definitely be a nice bouquet of flowers on Friday :)

[BlackMagicRose]

Beth it is very nice that you are getting her flowers. I know you and many other parents appreciate their nanny's and child care providers.

This is why I think the government should help pay for child care or at least that child care providers should have a union. To me, it is just like taking your kids to school. The Day Care providers are early childhood teachers along with other things that teachers do not have to do (change diapers, feed the children, monitoring more because of course the are not sitting around all day ect.)

Some jobs which require a lot less education are higher paid. That is not fair. Where we put our priorities in society is just wrong.

If men were the chils care providers, how much more would they be getting paid? I also have to wonder about that.

[jennylou]

I think paying over $500 per child, per week is very unrealistic. Many women don't make that much money themselves! I think expecting to make that much per child would make it so that only the folks that made a lot more money would be able to afford daycare and would rely on other alternatives (family, friends, staying home themselves even if they wanted to work, etc) and there would be less of a market for daycare teachers at that point. For one child that would be $26,000 per year (based upon $500 per week).

While I don't doubt that the woman (and men) who do this kind of work work very hard and deserve to be compensated*, I think that the market can sustain that pay.

*FWIW, I SAHM and am exhausted some days after chasing DD around. One day per week I also watch two other kids (4 and 2.5) in addition to DD and I'm *really* tired that day!

[laura]

I agree many childcare workers are underpaid, but IMO, preschool teachers are paid worst since they need to have some additional training but they aren't really compensated a great/normal wage. I guess they are probably along the lines of daycare workers who work for large centers. However, I would not say - at least in my area - that nannies are in this arena. When I considered nannying right out of college, I would have been making about $500/week cash to watch 1 kid and that wasn't even considered a lucrative assignment.

In any case, I think that article makes a lot of gross generalizations that are just patently untrue. Like this:

Let us hope that these nannies receive cards and chocolates from their own families, because it is unlikely that they receive them from anyone who has been holding forth on whether mothers should rejoin the workforce. It is not that we don't treasure the "other mothers" in our lives. It is that along with the appreciation comes doubt, resentment and guilt about our own choices as working mothers.

A nanny should not be 'the other mother', period. A nanny shouldn't, IMO, receive a gift for Mother's Day, b/c they aren't the MOTHER, but I'm sure he/she receives thoughtful gifts on other holidays as well as general words of appreciation. And honestly, when I worked w/ kids, I loved it a million times more when a parent would say "thank you so much, you helped my kid xyz which s/he was really struggling w/ before!" than when they gave me any sort of gift. And yes, I was poorly paid (less than $10/hour), but sometimes it's a tradeoff.

[BlackMagicRose]

Jennylou I did not say paying over $500 per week for one child. I said TOTAL a child care provider should be making at least that much for all the children they watch. Here is the breakdown:

A childcare provider working with infants are responsible for four infants at a time. For young toddlers it is 5:1, for older toddlers t is 6:1, for three it is 7:1 and for preschool it is 8:1.

If your child is getting private one on one care you should be willing to pay more.

Laura I do not agree that the day care provider is "the other mother" and the rhetoric is too strong, but I think child care providers are helping to raise children who are in a center for 30 hours a week or more.

I was not a preschool teacher and still have a BS degree in Human Development and Family Studies and IMO people who are child care providers for young toddlers, toddlers and threes ARE teaching too! So, they also need extra training. I was working with toddlers and believe me there was a lot of teaching going on (including potty training, which preschool teachers do n ot have to deal with).

[tenofcups]

On the one hand, I think daycare providers are seriously underpaid and if you pay by "value" should be one of the highest paid professions around since they perform what I believe is one of the most important jobs out there (like teachers, who I also think are sorely underpaid). Unfortunately, that's not realistic since then the majority of people who need to use them wouldn't be able to afford them. I don't know the answer...

[wendalah]

Some jobs which require a lot less education are higher paid. That is not fair.

This is life. Teaching in general (not just early education) requires a disproportionate amount of education for the amount it pays. When I worked as an editor (with experience and a master's degree in journalism), my salary was lower than your average IT guy with an AA degree.

[mimieliza]

I think childcare providers should have a Bachelor's degree in a related field, and get paid at least in the $30,000/year range. I also think that childcare should be partially subsidized by the government so that high-quality, well-paid early childhood education professionals can be accessible to all families.

But just add this to my list a mile long of all the things we should be doing but don't to support families with very young children.

[BlackMagicRose]

I think childcare providers should have a Bachelor's degree in a related field, and get paid at least in the $30,000/year range. I also think that childcare should be partially subsidized by the government so that high-quality, well-paid early childhood education professionals can be accessible to all families.

But just add this to my list a mile long of all the things we should be doing but don't to support families with very young children.

Agreed.

[jennylou]

Jennylou I did not say paying over $500 per week for one child. I said TOTAL a child care provider should be making at least that much for all the children they watch. Here is the breakdown:

A childcare provider working with infants are responsible for four infants at a time. For young toddlers it is 5:1, for older toddlers t is 6:1, for three it is 7:1 and for preschool it is 8:1.

Sorry, I saw that number and just ran with it. Going with the numbers that another poster said she paid for private in home daycare, combined with the providers other charges, it sounds like a daycare provider would make in that range - though, admittedly, I'm not sure about all of the extras like taxes and insurance would have on her bottom line (though, she'd probably be able to also write off expenses as well). Anyways, I think that in general, in home care providers can probably fair better than the centers, as the centers are the ones trying to make the money in that case, kwim?

I'm not saying it's fair, but as others have eluded to, unless the government steps in and offers incentives/pays for or in some way subsidizes all childcare, I think this situation will be slow to change...

[laura]

Oh, I didn't work as a preschool teacher, either, I just think they are a group of underpaid workers often overlooked in the daycare debate. FTR.

I agree w/ others, though - childcare workers and teachers all around are underpaid for the value of the work they do. It would be great if there were subsidies, but it seems unrealistic given the current climate, at least in the US. And without subsidies, I don't see how people could afford to work if they are paying their daycare worker equal to or more (in many cases) than what they make. Outside of government subsidies, do you have any other suggestions to make this more feasible?

[southerner]

Not all child care providers have to have degrees to get a job, thank goodness. IMO, degrees aren't as important as a lot of other factors that are harder to measure and compensate for. Taking college courses or getting a degree in early childhood doesn't automatically make you a better ("more quality") child care provider.

How ironic that it's Teacher Appreciation Week and all.

[msnicolea]

You know what makes me sad? At Lucas' daycare, two of his providers have infants of their own, who stay with family during the work day. These women take care of my child, but are unable (financially) to take care of their own during the day.

So no, they aren't moms to my child--but many are moms to their own, and their sacrifices should be appreciated.

[BlackMagicRose]

You know what makes me sad? At Lucas' daycare, two of his providers have infants of their own, who stay with family during the work day. These women take care of my child, but are unable (financially) to take care of their own during the day.

So no, they aren't moms to my child--but many are moms to their own, and their sacrifices should be appreciated.

Yes, this is sad to. I know many people who quit their day care jobs to stay at home after they had a baby or if they were single mother's were barely getting by because you do get a discount on day care when you are working there, but only if they have space and it is only 25% to 35% off. Which is still almost the whole pay check.

[Red'sGirl]

Reading this made me want to do the math on my childcare provider.

My DD is at an in-home daycare. It costs $200/week.

She has, at least, 10 kids.

That means that she easily makes, before taxes, $100,000.

Now subtract taxes and the fact that she pays a worker, and insurance, but add the tax breaks of having an in-home business. She makes a nice living, doing something that she loves. (and, she drives a Jaguar).

Don't get me wrong, I do not begrudge her a scent, nor do I believe that teaching jobs get paid their worth - she just does it right. And while it was more expensive that a few other daycares I checked into, I know I made the right choice because she loves my DD and my DD loves her. It's $10,000/yr (gulp) well spent.

[Rose]

Red'sGirl - Does she have to pay any helpers? 10 kids is a lot for one person.

*nevermind*

[artist]

A nanny should not be 'the other mother', period. A nanny shouldn't, IMO, receive a gift for Mother's Day, b/c they aren't the MOTHER, but I'm sure he/she receives thoughtful gifts on other holidays as well as general words of appreciation.

I see what you're saying, but I've received Mother's Day cards from my nieces before even though I am certainly not "the other mother". (Though I am the godmother to one of them! :) ) At my church last year on Mother's Day, the children in the church gave a plant to ALL the women in the church and also gave a printed out poem to ALL the men in the church. I once received a card that was a "Happy Mother's Day" card that was supposed to look like it came from my pets! So, if I of all people can be honored on Mother's Day for being an aunt, a woman, or a mom to my pets, what's so terrible about giving a nice card to someone who helps care for your children?

[cr8zyforaf]

I pay $300 a week for DD to be in a center - that does not mean the teacher's that watch my child get most of that money - most of them make betwen 9-10 an hour..which is horrible to me. And, the center, which is not non-profit, is always having fund raisers and hitting the parents up for money. I just don't understand it.

[artist]

The irony is, I have babysat and made more per hour watching TWO children (not infants either) than some childcare providers make per hour watching MANY children! Also, consider the fact that the 2-3 times per year I MIGHT babysit, I am getting paid cash and getting paid immediately and not paying taxes on that. (In case you're wondering, I've been paid $10 per hour to babysit. This is a rate I've been paid by 3 different families. This is also in Minnesota, so I would hope someone would make significantly more per hour to babysit in L.A. or NYC.)

I have experience working with youth (of various ages), teaching (no teaching degree however), youth program coordination, etc. I have considered working in the childcare provider field, but upon discovering how low the wages are, decided not to. At the rate they pay, after taxes, I'd probably blow much of my paycheck on the gasoline to get to work!

[laura]

I see what you're saying, but I've received Mother's Day cards from my nieces before even though I am certainly not "the other mother". (Though I am the godmother to one of them! :) ) At my church last year on Mother's Day, the children in the church gave a plant to ALL the women in the church and also gave a printed out poem to ALL the men in the church. I once received a card that was a "Happy Mother's Day" card that was supposed to look like it came from my pets! So, if I of all people can be honored on Mother's Day for being an aunt, a woman, or a mom to my pets, what's so terrible about giving a nice card to someone who helps care for your children?

Did you read the article in the OP? The article harps repeatedly on the notion that nannies are 'the other mother' that makes the actual mother resentful - basically doing all the work of child rearing w/o any of the appreciation - which is why a parent with a nanny would never dream of getting their nanny a mother's day card (which the article implies, they deserve) b/c that would be undermining the actual mother. I disagree with that sentiment entirely, on many levels and for many reasons. In actuality, I don't care who buys a mother's day card, poem, flowers, whatever, for whoever else they want. But that is not the point of the article, IMO, which is what I disagree with. If you read my entire post, instead of the snippet you quoted, you will see what I wrote is in direct response to the article.

[msnicolea]

I agree with you, L--I thought the author was, for the most part, off base and made a lot of generalizations.

[artist]

Yes, I did read the article. I also certainly did not intend to offend anyone by only posting a snippet quote.

I (for now anyway) do not have children. Though I can see how moms could be offended by the article. Either way, I personally do not see what the big deal is with giving a card to a child care provider on Mother's Day. I do not think a childcare provider is "the other mother" or "the other parent", though I definitely think childcare providers, teachers, relatives, neighbors, etc. often play some sort of a role in influencing the lives of children. I guess I agree with Hilary that it takes a village. I also agree with OP and the author of the article that childcare providers (be it a nanny/babysitter, daycare provider either at a center or home-based daycare, teacher, camp counselor, etc.) are most certainly underpaid, and often underappreciated. I have stated many times on CC that I think many people are underpaid, likewise many people are overpaid. However, my opinion on matters like this stems from the fact that in many ways, I am a bit of a Socialist at heart. (Though I vote for Democratic candidates for obvious practical reasons.) I also as many of you know, was a VISTA, and thus feel quite strongly about the socieoeconomic gaps that exist in society.

While I can see that parts of that article are a bit on the offensive side, I do still agree with the author that at least from a feminist perspective, there still remains unequal pay for men and women. Not only are childcare providers (including some of the men who are childcare providers) not receiving adequate pay for their valuable services, but often times the mothers of children in the care of these professionals are ALSO not paid enough. Perhaps if working mothers (and working women in general) were paid more fairly, the cost of things like daycare would not seem so steep and childcare providers could be better compensated. I suppose my vision is considered unrealistic though since I am so idealistic and liberal.

[scout]

My DD is at an in-home daycare. It costs $200/week.

She has, at least, 10 kids. Is this a typo? It's illegal for an in home daycare provider to have this many kids. The ratio is usually 1:4 or 1:6, depending on the age of the child. Maybe I missed something???

My daycare provider actually makes more than I do. I feel she does an extremely important job. She only takes teacher's kids, so she gets all of the school holidays off, spring break, Christmas break, etc. We pay extra each week so technically she gets paid for these breaks. I'm always sure to share my appreciation and give her gifts at Christmas, at the end of the year, and a few small things throughout the year.

THough she's a very important part of my child's life, she's not his mother, so I certainly am not going to get her a gift for Mother's Day.

[Shermy]

I am a little baised becuase I was an under appreciated Nanny, for 3 years. Nanny Diaries has nothing on me :) SERIOUSLY.

While I would never EVER expect a gift on a day such as mother's day, I do, however think that article had some valid points.

"It is a relationship they would probably prefer not to have in the first place, but now that it's there they can't live without it. It involves love, power, intimacy and need, and most complicated of all, the exchange of money and values over the heads of our children."

^ I can not think of a better way to describe my job. That quote is an almost perfect representation of what my job was like. At the start of the job I was working 60-70 hours a week, for a mom who was "home" 90% of the time. I started when the youngest was 4 weeks old and spent more time with the youngest that the mother ever had. Other than a wage, what type of appreciation did I get...I got a complicated dance as the author of the article describes between love, her thirst for power, and the need for me to be there, coupled with a large dose of her (understandable) guilt. Her desire to control my every action (through sometimes insane, and dangerous comands) even over the phone, all drove me to a point where I lost a fair amount of respect for her. Which leads to, guess what? A pissed off, irritated and unhappy childcare provider. Their children were safe, happy, loved and well taken care of and my appreciation? I was often times refered to as "the help" by the grandmother, and talked about as though I was not there, and as if I not could make my own decisions, and the nanny agency I went through was just as bad. Which is really a shame.

While this was only one family, in one area I can assure you it is not an uncommon occurance.

I also think it brings up a good point about wages. I myself, was compensated VERY well, as a recent college grad I am not making anything close to what I was as a Nanny in my job downtown in a high rise. However, I do know of various women who recieve very poor wages in day care centers, which is so hard to belive.

Other than that, I thought the article was kinda jumpy, and tried to make too many poorly thought out points....kinda lilke my post :p

[amew]

I, too, am offended by the idea that parents should be giving nannies and day care providers mother's day cards and presents, though I do think parents should do more to show those people appreciation on other days of the year. The phrase "other mother" is just icky.

But as someone who is currently on five day care waiting lists and very concerned about who will watch my son when I go back to work in December after my August baby is born, I can say that actually, I would gladly pay someone $500 a week to watch my one child if it meant that he had loving, competent, reliable care. It would be worth a lot of money to me to know my baby was well-cared for.

[JustVita]

Is this a typo? It's illegal for an in home daycare provider to have this many kids. The ratio is usually 1:4 or 1:6, depending on the age of the child. Maybe I missed something???

Not Red'sGirl, but she mentioned:
Now subtract taxes and the fact that she pays a worker, and insurance, but add the tax breaks of having an in-home business. She makes a nice living, doing something that she loves. (and, she drives a Jaguar).

[Shermy]

I The phrase "other mother" is just icky.

But as someone who is currently on five day care waiting lists and very concerned about who will watch my son when I go back to work in December after my August baby is born, I can say that actually, I would gladly pay someone $500 a week to watch my one child if it meant that he had loving, competent, reliable care. It would be worth a lot of money to me to know my baby was well-cared for.

I don't necessarly agree that the term "the other mother" is ICKY, in some situations it is quite appropriate. Not in majority of cases, but we all know there are extremes childcare providers, and nannies who are just that, "the other mother" While it may seem Icky to you, for many others it is a reality :)

Also, it is shocking how many childcare providers and nannies who earn 500 dollars, or more a week are sadly incompetent, and put the child at risk on a daily basis. The warning has been given time and time before, but you really never can be to careful!

Coming from a nanny, who was 100% confident in their own abilities to take care of two children in a competent, reliable and loving manor, I am an advocate of "Nanny Cams". They provide security, and a certian amount of piece of mind for many parents and, for any nanny who is confident they are doing what they should be, the way they should be, the cameras are a testiment to your work ethic. They also can provide saftey for nannies in terms of avoiding a "she-said, they-said" situation.

[Dally]

I'm not a fan of "the other mother" either. I'm my DD's only mother, period. Although I understand that there some mother's out there who seem uninvolved (like in Shermy's experience), I'm sure the majority are like me--very much their child's only mother. The reason why the term kind of bugs me is that so many people out there criticize working moms by saying that someone else is "raising their child." I HATE that. I know that working moms know what I know: the parents raise the child, even if they work. I know because I'm living it.

I believe that child care providers should be paid well. What they do is extremely important, appreciated, and not at all easy. We just did a big appreciation event at our center. We gave presents and wrote notes of appreciation on a big bulletin board. But you know when we did it? During teacher appreciation week! Maybe that makes more sense at a center (especially one that is accredited and offers preschool and kindergarten classes) than with a nanny. But in any case, I thought it was a great time to express our appreciation of our child care providers.

[msnicolea]

Happy Mother's Day!

I agree, Dally. Like it isn't hard enough to be a working outside of the home mom without people making statements about our children being "raised" by others. My son is sometimes cared for by others--and I am unbelievably grateful to them--but my husband and I are raising him.

Now, I do subscribe to the idea that it "takes a village" and I know that anyone Lucas spends a good deal of time with will ultimately contribute to his character--that's why it's so important to make very informed decisions about who your childcare providers will be!

[scout]

Not Red'sGirl, but she mentioned:

Quote:
Now subtract taxes and the fact that she pays a worker,
Ah! So I did miss something. Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm sure the majority are like me--very much their child's only mother. The reason why the term kind of bugs me is that so many people out there criticize working moms by saying that someone else is "raising their child." I HATE that. I know that working moms know what I know: the parents raise the child, even if they work. I know because I'm living it I agree. My daycare worker is a very important part of my ds' life (he loves her!) but she isn't raising him, or instilling values or beliefs in my child, she is not there in the middle of the night, etc. Nobody is raising my child except for my DH and myself.

[Southlooper]

A woman in my moms' group had a hell of a time finding daycare that she could afford. The one that she finally found was an inhome day care run by a woman and her sister.

Two weeks ago this mom ended up in the emergency room because her 9 month old son was sexually abused by a relative that was visiting woman running the daycare (the provider and sister went to parent teacher conferences and left this relative in care of the kids.)

Unfortunately the notion that taking care of children is easy still exists in this country. There are so many people who have NO BUSINESS being around children are working in these daycares. Until people start taking the care of our children seriously, crap like this will only get worse.


(EXHALE) Thanks for letting me vent...