Fatal shootings at Virginia Tech

[Sophia]

...
(CNN) -- One person was killed and one person was wounded in a shooting on the Virginia Tech university campus in Blacksburg on Monday, The Associated Press reported, quoting a state government official.

Roanoke's WSLS reports that one person has been taken into custody, but it is unclear whether more suspects are being sought.

read more here (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html)

[WisWis]

I hadn't heard about this; I guess I need to go turn on the news. We live about an hour from Va Tech and both went to school there.

[Sophia]

From CNN's Breaking News banner:

Second shooting at Virginia Tech, school's Web site reports; 7 more casualties reported by The Associated Press

[msnicolea]

Jesus--that's where DH's parents teach/work--the information is so sketchy right now--very scary.

[Sophia]

Oh crap, Nic. I hope they're ok.

[msnicolea]

I just spoke with Josh--his mom is not on campus today--no word yet re step-dad, but nothing indicates that faculty offices were involved, so. . .

He can't get through on the phone to his office--but I suspect that's becasue so many people are trying to call.

[Sophia]

Nic, I'm glad MIL wasn't in danger and I hope FIL is ok, too.

CNN TV is now reporting that up to 20 people have been shot and killed. I can't find anything online, and from what I understand that number has not been confirmed by authorities.

ETA: New Breaking News banner on CNN.com:

At least 20 people were fatally shot Monday on the campus of Virginia Tech University in Blacksburg, police said, according to WDBJ. CNN working to confirm.

[suzubeane]

Reports are that the shootings were isolated to a dorm and a classroom in an engineering building. Msnic - I read that people are being told to stay inside, lock their doors, and stay away from windows. (They arrested a suspect, but are not ruling out the possibility of there being a second one.) Hopefully your DH will get through to his step-father soon!

[savannahgrl]

This is so sad. Fox news is reporting now that 22 are presumed dead. My heart breaks for all of those families.

[cari2]

Fox news is reported 22 dead, another 21 wounded. How awful. Apparently, they are reporting that one shooter went from room to room shooting people...it was in Norris Hall if anyone is familiar with the school...

[msnicolea]

Still no word, but FIL is an English professor, so we are operating under the assumption that he is ok. This is just unbelievably awful--and the information is so scattered and sketchy--are they saying multiple gunmen now?!?!? It's truly shocking--Blacksburg is such a quiet place--I am truly stunned.

[Sophia]

Update:

CNN) -- The Virginia Tech Police Chief said at least 20 people were killed in twin shootings on the Blacksburg campus Monday morning.

....

A hospital spokeswoman told The Associated Press that 17 Virginia Tech students were being treated for gunshot wounds and other injuries. Sharon Honaker at the Carilion New River Valley Medical Center told CNN that four patients had been transported there, one in critical condition.

One person was killed and others were wounded at multiple locations inside a dormitory about 7:15 a.m., Flinchum said. Two hours later, another shooting at Norris Hall, an engineering building, resulted in multiple casualties, the university reported.
read more here (read more)

Obviously the whole story is horrible, but I find the 2 hour time gap very strange.

[WisWis]

22 is what they're reporting down here too, and also that the shooter is dead. Blacksburg is such a great little town, and I always felt safe at Va Tech. This is just unimaginable.

ETA: We just heard that the two shootings took place in West AJ (a dorm) and Norris. Norris isn't one of the main engineering buildings, although if I remember correctly mining/mineral engineering was in that building along with civil engineering and several large lecture halls. My memories are hazy though, and things may have changed in the last 5 years.

[msnicolea]

It's stunning. My brother and SIL are also alums--they can't believe it.

[suzubeane]

This is just unbelievably awful--and the information is so scattered and sketchy--are they saying multiple gunmen now?!?!?No, no! Sorry - I read that they are investigating it that way, just as a matter of course. I will go look for the reference. Sorry to alarm you!

[phoenics]

This really panicked me when I came in here to read this! One of my closest friends has her office (she's a grad student) next to the building where the shooting happened (she's CS - right next to the Engineering bldg). She says that she's okay - she didn't go in today.

Thank God!

I'm SO glad she's okay! Talk about panic!

[msnicolea]

No worries, suzu--I just misread it. I can't imagine a scenariuo that would have FIL in the engineering building, so we're not too worried at this poiunt--I'm just so crushed for the parents of these young people who don't know their children's fate at this point.

[Sophia]

Nic, I'm glad it's very unlikely FIL was anywhere near the shootings.

How sad for these students and their families. :(

I've PMed a mod about changing the title of the thread to "Virginia Tech Shootings," in light of the number of victims and the title being so woefully inaccurate now.

[suzubeane]

Here's an early AP article (http://www.dailybulletin.com/news/ci_5676153) that says "The university told students to stay inside and away from windows as police swept the campus and worked to establish whether the gunman acted alone."

It also says "the shootings at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus" so that must be where the "multiple shooter" theory came from.

... I'm just so crushed for the parents of these young people who don't know their children's fate at this point.Me, too! We've been visiting college campuses in recent weeks (my son's a high school senior trying to decide) and I always notice that the tours are really geared toward the parents. Safety and safety systems are talked up a lot, but a series of "blue light" poles on campus would not have stopped something like this.

[msnicolea]

You just feel so helpless--you try to do everything possible to protect your child--and then something like this happens? I'm just heartsick.

[MLA]

Horrifying. Random violence like this just shakes me to the core.

[msnicolea]

25 dead now :-(

[Loud_curly]

This is just a huge tragedy. My prayers are going up to the many families impacted by this devastating event.

[allyray231]

I am sick I just can't imagine. Working at a university this is just so sad and scary. My prayers to eveyone

[Belm]

This is just horrible. Our neighbor's son goes there and I know he lives on campus, but I'm not sure where. We also have friends that are alum of VT.

[allyray231]

young american male, two 9mm hand guns, killed himself

[maggieb]

What the hell is going on? This is just so sad.

[suzubeane]

young american male, two 9mm hand guns, killed himselfHuh? I thought they arrested him and had him in custody?

eta: OK, just read on the NYT site that "the shooter died" - but not if it was due to a self inflicted wound.

[allyray231]

Huh? I thought they arrested him and had him in custody?

No those were the rumors. The gunman is dead

1st shooting was around 7-second was around 9. I guess they lifted the lockdown and let kids go to class or something and he shot more people 2 hours later-how that happens I don't know

[msnicolea]

REports are saying differnt things--one said arrested, another said killed self

I wish they wouldn't release information until they fact check--it's so frustrating

How could they have lifted the lockdown if they didn't have him in custody? THis is outrageous!

[jesseybell]

How could they have lifted the lockdown if they didn't have him in custody? THis is outrageous!

I know. Who in heck lifted the lockdown??!!!!

These things freak me out so much. The threat of workplace violence or school shootings get me 1000 times more scared than the threat of terrorist attacks.

[jeggink]

This is so sad :(. I got my engineering graduate degree there a few years ago and am familiar with Norris hall. I am really hoping none of my professors got killed :(. I feel so bad for the families of all the kids that go there!

[suzubeane]

How could they have lifted the lockdown if they didn't have him in custody? THis is outrageous!I sure hope that turns out to be untrue.

[msnicolea]

FIL is fine--MIL just called--he has been allowed to leave his office building and is on his way home.

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts.

[allyray231]

So glad eveyone is ok msnicolea

I heard and interview on MSNBC from a kid that got shot-he said that it was a young 20 year old asian kid-a student and he just walked in and started shooting. he shot 10-15 people in the room

I watched the president of Vtech speak and the gunman is dead

[MLA]

The threat of workplace violence or school shootings get me 1000 times more scared than the threat of terrorist attacks.

Me too.

[HGMorgann]

I'm an alumni and have many friends there as students and on staff and my sister is a junior...My sister is okay. She was under lockdown in Torgerson Hall, but actually slipped out a back door because her friend was nearby with her car and Torgeson had bomb threats last week and she didn't feel safe. I can't believe this could happen at VT.

[msnicolea]

So glad your sister is ok, HGMorgann.

[HGMorgann]

Me too. We couldn't get ahold of her for a while, understandably. I'm glad your FIL is okay too. Sarah was about to head to Norris when they locked down the hall. Ugh. I'm just shaking.

[petdoc08]

They just showed a choppy cellphone video that you could hear screaming and gunshots. So sad.

[allyray231]

HGMorgann so glad you sister is ok

Having lived thru 9/11 in NYC and being a mile away I am more afraid of workplace violence or school shootings. And I worked on a campus

[Sophia]

My understanding was they took a man into custody before the 2nd shooting started. That's why they haven't ruled out more than one shooter.

[Sophia]

HGMorgann, I'm glad your sister is ok.

[southerner]

I just posted in my LJ this morning about this week being the anniversary of the Columbine attack of 1999. April 20, I remember it like it was a few months ago.

There are no words!

[MrsD108]

I am at a loss of words. Those poor kids.

[diam124]

This is horrible. My sister's SIL is a grad student at VT. As far as I know they haven't heard anything from her.

I was also just thinking yesterday how the Columbine anniversary is coming up, as well as the Oklahoma City bombing anniversary.

[southerner]

32 now confirmed dead :eek: :(

sophia, Mind if we change the title of the thread? I wish it was only one :(

[suzubeane]

omg. NPR is saying that the death toll is up to 29.

x-post, southerner. 32? ohh.

[allyray231]

they haven't said anything about a person in custody but who knows

[suzubeane]

they haven't said anything about a person in custody but who knowsNo, that was an earlier report. The ones I'm seeing online and the reports I'm hearing on the radio (NPR) all concur now that the suspected shooter is dead.

[phoenics]

Has anyone heard anything about the kids being lined up execution style and shot? Something about the gunman was looking for his girlfriend?

I can't find anything to corroborate that rumor - someone just texted me this...

[snowzilla]

There are eyewitness email accounts here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/6561335.stm).

And, photos of a suspect being taken down by a police office here (http://www.mercurynews.com/portlet/article/html/render_gallery.jsp?articleId=5679241&siteId=568&startImage=1).

[Susan]

Everything I keep reading online is still saying at least 22 are dead...but I can't see where the death toll is up to 32 anywhere. I live in VA and had lots of friends who went to VA Tech. This is all just so scary...

[HGMorgann]

I've heard that as well, phoenics

[southerner]

Everything I keep reading online is still saying at least 22 are dead...but I can't see where the death toll is up to 32 anywhere.

Fox news is reporting that. (http://www.foxnews.com/)

[maggieb]

I've been flipping through the channels and FoxNews is the only one reporting 32 dead.

I just can't get over how sad this is.

[Susan]

Thank you for the link, southerner...oh wow. I am just in shock. This is so unbelieveably awful.

[TracieB]

Fox news is reporting that. (http://www.foxnews.com/)

In the picture on this page of the police carrying a student, I'm really hoping he's only injured and not worse. If they posted that shot and he's actually dead, that's pretty ethically horrible on their part.

This is so tragic and horrible. I have no words. I was watching it unfold at the gym and saw it go from one casualty to many more. Unbelieveable.

[allyray231]

yeah leave it to fox-

[MLA]

This is so confusing. So, is the shooter dead, or has he been arrested? If he's dead, who's the guy in the handcuffs in the photos snowzilla linked? Were there two shooters?

[kugrrly]

I am confused about that also MLA

[AttyGrl74]

I woke up this morning thinking about Columbine - the anniversary is on Friday.

What is this world coming to - when schools are becoming fatal?

My thoughts are with everyone there and everyone who has loved ones at VT.

[Sophia]

32 now confirmed dead :eek: :(

sophia, Mind if we change the title of the thread? I wish it was only one :(


OMG, 32? This is so horrible. :(

I PMed jesvet earlier when the reports of 20+ came out and I see she's changed it now.

[dreamgirly]

OMG. DH & I are going in June to meet the faculty & see more about their graduate programs... I am shocked... my heart goes out to the families. And the poor students who watched their friends die. OMG how horrible...

[allyray231]

Guys MSNBC just said it is 31 now

[Niobe]

Statement from VT president. (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3045918&page=1)

In the statement, the president says there were two shootings, but doesn't say if there were two different shooters or if the same guy made it across campus.

[diam124]

yeah leave it to fox- MSNBC has the exact same photos on their website.

From what I read the shooter was described as Asian, so it's possible that the Asian guy in those photos was handcuffed until they made sure he was not involved.

[HGMorgann]

AP said its 31 too........

Oh hokies...

[Esq.]

Unimaginable. Prayers and thouhts to all of you who have family and friends on or near the campus. I am happy to hear that most are safe.

This is truly terrible.

[Sophia]

OMG, this is so horrible. :(

[Sophia]

CNN TV now reporting at least 31 dead.

[jellybeany]

This is so terrible. I can't believe this keeps happening! :(

[Niobe]

I woke up this morning thinking about Columbine - the anniversary is on Friday.

Thursday is the anniversary of both the Branch Dividian compound being burned and the OKC bombing. :(

[~queen~]

My heart goes out to every student, faculty, staff member, employee and friends/family of anyone on campus.

This is a tragedy beyond words.

[diam124]

My sister finally heard from her SIL. She was at her apartment and hadn't gone to campus yet today. Thank goodness.

[TracieB]

Here's a snippet from the President of VT that explains the two shootings a little more clearly. One would have to assume that it was the same shooter, but the shootings were two hours apart, so it's weird.

At about 7:15 a.m. this morning a 911 call came to the University Police Department concerning an event in West Ambler Johnston Hall. There were multiple shooting victims. While in the process of investigating, about two hours later the university received reports of a shooting in Norris Hall. The police immediately responded. Victims have been transported to various hospitals in the immediate area in the region to receive emergency treatment.


The rest of the statement can be found here: http://www.vt.edu/campus_alert.php

[allyray231]

diam glad your family is ok

[HGMorgann]

Rich, my husband was in the Mechanical Engineering program at VT. I hope his profs are okay. I feel guilty hoping all those we know are alright, but knowing that 60+ have been injured/killed. All I can do is pray.

[snowzilla]

It's hard to tell in those pictures I linked - but is the fellow who is being handcuffed wearing a vest of some sort?

[vjel]

they originally thought there might be more than one shooter b/c a couple hours had passed since the shooting at West AJ (dorm) and the shootings at Norris.

The shooter is supposedly dead from a self inflicted gunshot wound. They are saying that he chained the doors shut at Norris to keep people from leaving.
:(

[Sarah]

This is too horrible for words. My prayer are with all those families. Just unthinkable.

I do think that we should keep perspective, though. While it's totally understandable that we should be worried, the chances of this happening are still tiny. Most college and elementary school kids are okay.

[Sophia]

I just heard on CNN TV that the first shooting incident happened in one dorm room, between a man and woman, and all the other shootings occurred across campus in Norris Hall.

[diam124]

They are saying that he chained the doors shut at Norris to keep people from leaving.
:(

I read that too. Sickening.

[jeggink]

HGMorgann Glad you sister is OK. I feel the same way as well, I really hope my profs are OK as well :(.

[southerner]

take a moment of silence, everyone...

[HeatherFL]

I am in France right now and just seeing this on the news. The stations are reporting different things, but they are saying it is between 20 and 32 who have been killed. It is being widely covered here, and they are interviewing students via phone.

I am so, so sorry for these students and their families. For those of you who had loved ones there, I hope they are safe.

H.

[Sophia]

CNN is reporting that authorities tell the AP that the gunman was apparently working alone and is dead--no word on whether he took his own life or was killed by police.

There will be press conferences at 4:15 and 4:30 ET (first by Pres. Bush, 2nd by the university).

[May27JnJ]

Here's a local news in the Richmond area...

http://www.nbc12.com/home/7044827.html

[klanae]

They just said on CNN that President Bush is speaking at 4:15 ET not 3:15 as previously reported.

[Rose]

How horrible.

[Toonces]

How horrible. :(

From MSNBC:

The name of the gunman, whom witnesses described as a young Asian man wearing a maroon cap and a black leather jacket, was not released. It was not immediately clear whether he shot himself or was killed by police.

The man did not appear to be shooting at random, NBC News’ Pete Williams reported, quoting federal law enforcement officials. He appeared to have specifically targeted the two locations, a co-ed dormitory and a classroom in an engineering building.

Read more here (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/).

[Sophia]

They just said on CNN that President Bush is speaking at 4:15 ET not 3:15 as previously reported.

Thanks--I fixed the times in my previous post.

[Columbo]

Another Alumni here...

My thoughts and prayers to everyone and their families.

While I don't know any students there anymore, I'm still in touch with faculty and staff.

Gosh, and I lived in that dorm.
:(

[msnicolea]

My MIL just emailed me this, from a co-woker at Tech. Not sure how much is true or how much is specualtion--but I can't even imagine how frightened she must have been:

Sweet Friends,

Lynn just called. She is on her way home - I don't know how she is driving.
She is very calm but knowing this woman, she is keeping it together until
she can get home to Larry. Some of you may know that the killer chained the exterior doors so that no one could escape. Lynn said she knew one
professor that was shot in the face and was so concerned about whether he
was alive. She also said a friend of hers had to step over a dead body to
get out of the building. I pasted the latest from the Collegiate Times
below - Sheila had already told me the news and that the shooter had two 9
millimeter guns with him.

Monday, April 16th 2007 2:13PM
As of now, 32 people are confirmed dead. One person from West Ambler Johnston Hall and at least 20 people from Norris Hall have been killed. The shooter as well has been killed, but it is uncertain as to whether it is a
student or not.

How could this happen to our university? I just wish that there was some
way to reach out to the faculty families and parents of these young people
who were shot and wounded or who were lost. It is tragedy beyond words. My prayers surround them.

Lynn asked that I send out an email to all of you to let you know that she
is okay and that she sends her love.

I love you all too! Melinda

[Toonces]

Nicole ~ Wow... thank you for sharing that. What a horrifying experience.

[snowzilla]

There are some eyewitness accounts (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/)on MSNBC (box about halfway down the page to the right), including one account of a professor being shot.

[Sophia]

Nicole, thanks for posting that.

[sea74]

Wow! :( This makes me so sick and so sad. God be with the victims and their families. I Cannot even think about it w/o getting emotional.

[suzubeane]

Hm. The link that Snowzilla posted says the campus was "still under lockdown" when the later shootings happened two hours after the first. If that's the case, then it's not as if the lockdown was lifted, but it sure sounds like people weren't aware of it.

[msnicolea]

There must have been a signficant communications breakdown if people didn't know about the lockdown. I mean, some students obviously stayed in their rooms or were huddled together in classrooms--others went to class as scheduled. It's so confusing.

[allyray231]

one of the students is on MSNBC abd they said they sent an email out after the first shooting. There was no lock down and classes were not cancelled-they told them to just be aware and look for anything odd.

We had a body found on campus 3 weeks ago and they weren't sure if the guy had been shot or not. They evacuted campus ASAP and told people to leave and the bldg where the body was (it ended up being someone killed themself) was locked down.

[kugrrly]

on fox news earlier they had a student on who called the school prior to the second shooting, and the campus operator stated that he should "take caution" on his way to calss.

[msnicolea]

It really sounds like the admin at Tech made HUGE errors in judgment--as soon as shots were fired, there should have been a complete and total lock-down--as much as possible, anyway. I just don't understand. People are always talkingabout "avoiduing chaos" and not causing people to panic--but sometimes, there's a reason to panic.

[allyray231]

God I just saw the cell phone video where you can hear the shots. So scary

[Sophia]

Bush is giving a statement now.

[sea74]

Yeah, I just saw the same video. Ugh. :(

[JamBray]

Wow, this is all just so awful. My heart goes out to all the families of the victims, along with the students and faculty that survived. :(

[southerner]

All the news stations are interviewing different students. I must say all of them have been very articulate, calm, and dealing w/ the prodding of the all the personal media questions. I don't know that I'd want to be dealing with that right now and watching it unfold (or get more convaluted) on TV and through IMing w/ my friends.

I just heard one kid who saw the people jump out of the window of the dorm :(

Is there a PA system on the campus? Is their only mode of communication w/ everyone at the university via e-mail? Is there a campus news radio or television station? I might have missed this detail today.

ETA: I don't want to derail the thread, but I have to say I'm disappointed in GB's canned and very brief press conference.

[suzubeane]

The msnbc site (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18138327/) has a timeline that outlines the shootings beginning at 7:15 in the dorm, and an e-mail being sent to the campus community at 9:26.

Campus police send out an e-mail warning to faculty and students stating there has been a shooting at West Amber Johnston.

"Police are on the scene and are investigating," it says. "The university community is urged to be cautious and are asked to contact Virginia Tech Police if you observe anything suspicious or with information on the case."

(More at the source.)

[allyray231]

Wow-I just can believe if there was a shooting and no one was in custody they would just let people go to class?

[Sophia]

Ally, I don't get that either. From the reports, it seems there were some huge mistakes made in warning students/staff and securing the campus. I mean, telling people to "take caution" on the way to class when the shooter was still at large? WTF?

[HGMorgann]

I'm surprised at that as well. Earlier this year (Fall 06), when VT had the shooting at the hospital and then the gunman was near campus (Huckleberry Trail), they went into lock down.

Sarah, my sister, was surprisingly calm about it at first. Now, she is not. She and her sorority sisters are very, very scared. My mom and sister are going down to stay with her.

[Dally]

This is so sad. My heart goes out to the victims and the familys and friends of the victims. :(

At the same time, I feel such rage at the shooter. WTF is wrong with him?

[BumbleB]

If the response from the campus is true, I am shocked. This should have been lock-down. Even if the whole thing started with just one shooting. So many variables - how DO you keep people safe?

I graduated high school the year Columbine happened, the fear and sadness of that day is something that will forever stay with me. My heart goes out to all the families affected by this new tragedy.

[southerner]

I'm listening to these students and it is just heartbreaking. Imagine how much worse this is going to get for them as soon as they announce the names. I'm sure some of them have already figured out who some of the dead people are :(

One thing that blows my mind about this is all the recent other things that have gone on there in the past few months (2 bomb scares and the escape con they found in the woods near campus).

[c'est la vie]

My heart goes out to the families and friends of the victims. What a tragedy! :(

[Sophia]

From VT press conference:

31 confirmed dead at Norris Hall, including gunman

2 additional dead at dorm

15 others being treated at local hospitals

shooter's identitiy not yet confirmed because he had nothing on his person--in process of IDing him

in process of IDing victims and notifying families--will probably not release names till tomorrow

connection between two shootings (dorm & Norris Hall) not yet confirmed--still being investigated, not yet decided

students asked to contact parents

ETA: They're saying that the reason they didn't cancel classes after the first shootings was because they thought it was isolated to that building and more than likely the shooter had left campus.

I don't even know how to respond to that.

[phoenics]

How in the world did he manage to shoot so many people? I mean, honestly - I'm asking an honest question: logistically I just can't imagine.

He only had 2 9mm guns! Unless he was just spraying people, how could he do that?

Is it that he just cornered folks and took them down separately. I just don't understand how this could have happened. Logistically speaking.

I know this is just my brain trying to sift its way out of disbelief, but help me out here.

[Sophia]

phoenics, there have been reports he chained the doors closed so people couldn't get out. I imagine that has a lot to do with how many lives he took.

ETA: this was just confirmed during the press conference--the doors were chained from the inside.

[HGMorgann]

Listening to the press conference now. President Steger said they locked down AJ, but not all of campus thinking they had contained the situation.

[southerner]

phoenics, I keep hearing about people playing dead in the room(s) where he was shooting. I have wondered today if anyone tried to tackle him, get the gun from him, etc. I'd be scared to death. Those poor traumatized kids :(

I heard that of the 15 people who are still in the hospital, five of them are in surgeries. Imagine their stories :(

[phoenics]

phoenics, there have been reports he chained the doors closed so people couldn't get out. I imagine that has a lot to do with how many lives he took.

Ohhhh. I think I get it now. Then he cornered them all in the various classrooms.

I just read that he was trying to get into one room and the kids held the door closed with their feet - so he shot through the door at them. Thank God they were all on the floor lying down... :eek:

[ginadc]

What I don't quite get is the fact that it was apparently two hours later, approximately, when he started shooting at the classroom building. There had been shootings in the dorm already, at about 7:15, and they didn't evacuate or lock down the other buildings? This just boggles my mind, after the school shooting histories in this country. There may have been nothing that could have been done to prevent the first shootings, in the dorm, but then the guy has two hours to get to another building, all the doors chained and start shooting people? I know there's a lot more information that has to come out and I won't jump to conclusions, but based on the information so far, it sounds like whichever authorities decided how to respond to the initial shootings really screwed up.

[ginadc]

Morgann, we must have posted at the same time. I guess that's sort of an explanation, but ... not really. I think you err on the side of caution in something this dire. And how could they think they had the situation contained if the gunman wasn't in custody, which he quite obviously wasn't?

[phoenics]

Listening to the press conference now. President Steger said they locked down AJ, but not all of campus thinking they had contained the situation.

I figured that's what it was. Honestly, I understand that - they thought it was over with, that the shooter had fled... how sad that these kinds of mass shootings are occurring so much now that we have to start anticipating them to survive.

I feel a little sick to my stomach. :(

[scarlett]

And how could they think they had the situation contained if the gunman wasn't in custody, which he quite obviously wasn't? But this happens all of the time (shootings occur and the gunman gets away). There was no reason to initially think that the dorm shooting wasn't an isolated incident. It's just unfortunate that it wasn't.

[Niobe]

How in the world did he manage to shoot so many people? I mean, honestly - I'm asking an honest question: logistically I just can't imagine.

He only had 2 9mm guns! Unless he was just spraying people, how could he do that?

Is it that he just cornered folks and took them down separately. I just don't understand how this could have happened. Logistically speaking.

I know this is just my brain trying to sift its way out of disbelief, but help me out here.

A bullet from a 9mm can pass through more than one person. He also likely have had extra ammo / clips on him and reloaded. If he chained the doors to the building, he'd have easily had enough time to switch clips, and if people were lined up several deep it'd be possible to have two people hit by the same bullet.

I really can't believe that the school wouldn't close after a shooting, especially w/o the shooter being caught. So many lives might have been saved if the school had evacuated after the first shooting. :(

ETA: x-posted w/ a score of people. I guess I could see where the school might have thought the dorm room was an isolated occurrence and not have anticipated the shooter continuing from there.

[katzmeow671]

I'm horrified by all of this. My heart and my prayers go out to everyone that is personally affected by this tragedy. For a while it was unknown whether my co-worker's son was ok but thankfully he's fine. I cannot imagine being a parent and not knowing whether your child is alive or dead.

For the record, regarding the picture of the Asian guy on the ground in handcuffs, apparently he was a reporter and was released shortly after the picture was taken but then the photo was released and the rumor started going around that he was the shooter. I heard this information on both FOX and MSNBC.

[Jenyfer9]

My SIL's bro is a freshman at VT, and both my SIL and BIL (and my best friend and her dh) are alums. This is so sad. I heard an interview on ABC with a student who was in Norris when the shooting occurred... he and many of his classmates jumped out their 2nd story window... but his professor was killed.

So tragic.

[rubyslippers]

This is terrible. I can only offer my thoughts and prayers to all of those affected.

[kdotp]

Such a tragic and heartbreaking occurance.

From another MB, I read people had heard the shootings were a result of a bad breakup and the gunman was looking for his ex. He knew she had a class at that building at suchandsuch time, therefore the two hour delay between the shootings. That's purely speculation, though.

From what I've read, there are approximately 25,000 students at Virginia Tech. I guess I can understand how the University can *not* institute a lockdown if they thought the shooting was isolated and contained. How do you get that message to 25,000 students, plus faculty, in a timely manner? Email is probably the most efficient way, though I'm sure not everyone would have checked their email by the time of the second shooting and wouldn't have known the situation. There really is no good way.

[Lauren23]

This whole situation is absolutely horrible. My thoughts are definitely with everyone affected.

[nylons73]

I just read that he was trying to get into one room and the kids held the door closed with their feet - so he shot through the door at them. Thank God they were all on the floor lying down... :eek:

I heard the same thing. It was a room that he had ALREADY been in and had shot something like 10-15 kids inside. When the guman left the room, one of the quick thinking (unharmed) kids went over to the door, with another kid who had been shot in the arm, and they held the door closed with their feet. The gunman then DID try to get back into the room, but b/c those kids were so quick thinking, the gunman couldn't get back into the room and he shot through the door. Then he gave up and moved on to another room (they could hear him shooting other people in other rooms.) How horrible, but HOW BRAVE of those two young men, to crawl over to the door and keep it closed with his feet.

You can hear an interview with this brave young man on the MSNBC website. I think snowzilla is the one who provided the link to the audio a couple of pages back.

[BlackMagicRose]

Why April??? Why do so many horrible events happen this month.

I am just in shock right now. I just saw that the number went up to 33!!! :eek:

It all seems very strange to me that he had so much time to do all of this. I am still thinking that there was someone else. I wonder if we will ever know why. I am hoping he was a student and living in the dorm, because otherwise it is very scary that he could have got in and done this so easily. I wonder when we will know who he is.

I feel sick too.

[hokiegirl]

DH and I both are alumnus of Tech and this is so horrifying. I went home for lunch and saw that Ireport from the student that took video on his phone of Norris Hall and hearing the continuing bullet shots almost made me cry.
DH's mom lives near campus and so terrified. My thoughts go out to all those poor students, teachers and everyone that has family at VT.

[Emilie]

My father is an alum - knows the locations well. The whole thing is simply tragic and my heart goes out to all the students, parents, facility and alumni of VT and most especially to the victims. :(

[maplekitty]

wow, what a tragedy. my heart goes out to all those victims, what an absolutely senseless act :(

[diam124]

I think VT administration and the first responder law enforcement are going to have a lot of explaining to do, especially to the victim's families. I can understand why they thought the first shooting was an isolated incident, but it seems like a pretty big risk to assume it was over.

I saw the beginning of the most recent press conference and the president said something to the effect of having such a large campus and so many students that it was impossible to tell where it was safe. But it seems like they could have done a much better job at communicating the incident. Those kids wouldn't have been trapped in the classrooms if classes had been canceled immediately.

I also don't understand why they can't confirm that the two shootings are related, yet they can confirm they are not looking for another suspect. I read earlier that the dead from the first incident are a woman and an RA, so it sounds like it was not a murder-suicide.

[imagirliegirl]

Wow. This is so awful and scary. Makes me scared to go to school tomorrow. It's like we aren't safe anywhere. :(

All those poor people. This is such a huge tragedy.

[Esq.]

I am surprised that no one has been able to identify him yet. They say he was not shooting at random, that he seemed to have a plan. COnsidering that, you would think at least one of the people who made it out of Norris alive could identify him. This is, of course, assuming that the reports that the killings were specifically intended are true, and also assuming he the shooter is a student.

[wendalah]

If they find out that the shooter is some psycho freaking out because his student girlfriend dumped him, or the like, I am going to go ballistic. I'm already really mad just from reading the news today.

[Linz]

My DH's boss' cousin had 3 friends that were killed there today. It is all so very sad.

[Kimberland30]

I hate to say that I don't agree with Diam. Yes, this was a severe tragedy. My coworkers have children who go to that school and they were in complete shock. I didn't hear about the incident until 3:00 PM today because I was holed up in my office all day.

I don't agree that the school could have done more with the information it had. At 7:30 this morning there was reports of a fight and gunshots, which were being investigated at the time that the second round of shots were fired. The campus security/administrators had no way of knowing this suspect would return to the school and shoot more people. As far as news reports, it would have been all but impossible to notify each and every student of the first shooting, and most were cautioned to be careful. Everyone involved believed this was an isolated domestic dispute/shooting. Remember also that the second shootings took place over 2 hours after the first.

There will be a lot of judgement, but just remember that hindsight is 20/20. I really don't think this could have been prevented, unfortunately. I believe that the administrators and police acted appropriately based on the information they had, and what is being reported that they knew.

[Sophia]

My DH's boss' cousin had 3 friends that were killed there today. It is all so very sad.

I'm so sorry. :(

If they find out that the shooter is some psycho freaking out because his student girlfriend dumped him, or the like, I am going to go ballistic. I'm already really mad just from reading the news today.

Unfortunately, that's probably the likeliest scenario.

[HGMorgann]

Blacksburg is a SMALL town and VT is a large campus. Blacksburg has only 40-50 police officers. Even if the campus was locked down ASAP, it would be more than possible that the gunman would be able to still commit multiple murders. My sister was able to "escape" from lock down with out being stopped. There are just more doors, buildings, ect than police force. I think its too soon to start blaming the officials and police. Ultimately, the gun man is to blame.

[vjel]

I actually agree w/ you Kimberland30. Could communication have been better, yes probably. But how do you communicate something like this to 26,000 people in a timely manner? It's been 12 years since I graduated from there and I don't recall a PA system but maybe that's changed, I don't know. They sent out emails but not everyone checks email first thing in the morning, people could've been eating breakfast, on their way to class...it's a difficult situation. The school is basically in the middle of cow pastures, it's totally country. You just don't expect something of this magnitude to happen there. I will reserve judgement for now b/c there are still so many unanswered questions. Some questions we may never have the answers to.

Re: identifying the shooter. From what I'm hearing locally, he had no ID on him and his fingerprints are not turning up anything. And my impression is that he basically jacked up his face when he shot himself so they don't even really know what he looks like. Plus on a campus this size, where it's not at all unusual to have hundreds of people in a class, it would be easy to not recognize the shooter if he was a student.

[Sophia]

Re: communicating with such a large campus--they could have relayed information via the security personnel stationed around campus. They also could have contacted each departmental office and had runners notify each classroom. It's not the fastest way, but it would have worked and it's really not that hard.

[diam124]

I hate to say that I don't agree with Diam. Yes, this was a severe tragedy. My coworkers have children who go to that school and they were in complete shock. I didn't hear about the incident until 3:00 PM today because I was holed up in my office all day.

I don't agree that the school could have done more with the information it had. At 7:30 this morning there was reports of a fight and gunshots, which were being investigated at the time that the second round of shots were fired. The campus security/administrators had no way of knowing this suspect would return to the school and shoot more people. As far as news reports, it would have been all but impossible to notify each and every student of the first shooting, and most were cautioned to be careful. Everyone involved believed this was an isolated domestic dispute/shooting. Remember also that the second shootings took place over 2 hours after the first.

There will be a lot of judgement, but just remember that hindsight is 20/20. I really don't think this could have been prevented, unfortunately. I believe that the administrators and police acted appropriately based on the information they had, and what is being reported that they knew.

I absolutely agree that hindsight is 20/20 and I'm certain that they all thought they were acting appropriately at the time. I actually feel badly for the administrators and law enforcement who are going to have to face tough questions in the coming days.

And of course at a school of that size it would be difficult to notify everyone and/or institute a lock-down, but they could at least have tried to notify everyone.

I am surprised that they did not immediately cancel classes after the first shooting. I know that it's a huge school, but it seems to me like a shooting anywhere at a university would be justification for canceling classes.

[phoenics]

It's also possible that they thought the shooter was running away and that students were safer in class than roaming the campus.

[Delta]

If they find out that the shooter is some psycho freaking out because his student girlfriend dumped him, or the like, I am going to go ballistic.

Per Drudge:


He was said to have quarreled in a dormitory with his girlfriend, whom he believed had been seeing another man. A student adviser was called to sort out the fight. But the killer produced a gun and shot dead both his girlfriend and the adviser....

A Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups...

http://www.drudgereport.com/

[Sophia]

It's also possible that they thought the shooter was running away and that students were safer in class than roaming the campus.

But they weren't told to stay in their classrooms until it was too late. They could have easily called a total lockdown in the 2 hour gap.

Per Drudge:


He was said to have quarreled in a dormitory with his girlfriend, whom he believed had been seeing another man. A student adviser was called to sort out the fight. But the killer produced a gun and shot dead both his girlfriend and the adviser....

A Chinese man who arrived in the United States last year on a student visa.

The 24-year-old man arrived in San Francisco on United Airlines on Aug. 7 on a visa issued in Shanghai, the source said. Investigators have not linked him to any terrorist groups...

http://www.drudgereport.com/

Where'd Drudge get his info? The authorities have been saying they haven't identified him yet.

[wendalah]

Of course. Dumb MF. I used to feel sorry for people who were so mentally deranged that they went off their rocker in these sorts of situations. Now for some reason I just don't have any patience for it anymore.

[diam124]

But they weren't told to stay in their classrooms until it was too late. They could have easily called a total lockdown in the 2 hour gap.


Exactly. They didn't notify any students or staff (other than the students on lockdown in the dorm) until 2 hours later. They could have at least sent an email or voicemail that there was a shooting and they were investigating even if they didn't have any other information.

[BlackMagicRose]

Of course. Dumb MF. I used to feel sorry for people who were so mentally deranged that they went off their rocker in these sorts of situations. Now for some reason I just don't have any patience for it anymore.

Agreed! I can't take it any more either.

[sea74]

The gunman then DID try to get back into the room, but b/c those kids were so quick thinking, the gunman couldn't get back into the room and he shot through the door. Then he gave up and moved on to another room (they could hear him shooting other people in other rooms.) How horrible, but HOW BRAVE of those two young men, to crawl over to the door and keep it closed with his feet.
:( I can't even comprehend what was going through the minds of these students. I'm sure everyone is that classroom, and the parents of those students, are thankfully for their bravery!

Where'd Drudge get his info? The authorities have been saying they haven't identified him yet.
I'm sure the authorities know EXACTLY who he is but just have not medically/properly ID'ed him yet so they can't say they KNOW who he is, kwim?

[Delta]

Where'd Drudge get his info? The authorities have been saying they haven't identified him yet.He just linked to Chicago Sun Times.

[MichelleRenee]

I am just sick to my stomach over this. Really brings the stupid crap I spend my days worrying about into perspective.

[missemily]

Another Alum here. My husband and I graduationed several years ago, so I don't know any current students. But we go back for several football games a year and Blacksburg is one of my favorite places in the world. I have such happy memories there. It's surreal to see it all over the news like this.

[ysolde]

Oh, good lord. My sophomore year in high school, one of my friends was dating a freshman at Cornell. He was held hostage by a gunman, who eventually killed two young women in their dorm:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F01E1DE1438F93AA25751C1A9659482 60&sec=health&spon=&pagewanted=1

Those poor kids in at Virginia Tech!

[Sophia]

I'm sure the authorities know EXACTLY who he is but just have not medically/properly ID'ed him yet so they can't say they KNOW who he is, kwim?

True.

He just linked to Chicago Sun Times.

Thanks. I didn't see the link at first. Information overload today, I guess.

[Regina Phalange]

Students on Facebook are starting to post pictures of their friends who were killed.
This.is.heartbreaking!:(

[Delta]

I think it is ridiculous how the press is hammering the administration and police for not locking down the campus or giving more warning. The blame lies with gunman, not the school.

[suzubeane]

At first I also wondered why the campus wasn't locked down sooner, but then I started to think about it like this: there are small towns the size of that student body, and when a crime is committed in one part of town, police don't lock down the town. I think they had reason to believe it was isolated, and with two people dead, the campus police already had their hands full. That alone was probably more crime than a security team called upon mostly to break up noisy parties had ever seen.

[sea74]

I think it is ridiculous how the press is hammering the administration and police for not locking down the campus or giving more warning. The blame lies with gunman, not the school.
I agree. I think while not perfect, the school did what they could. If they locked down the whole campus how many people would have thought that was "over-kill" for a real lack of a better term?

Today two of the three high schools and two middle schools in my city were closed because of a bomb threat. Most parents and teachers rolled there eyes at the closures because they all assumed that it was just a prank by some students who wanted an extra day off from school. My point is, people are just becoming "used to" these types of threats and I'm sure very few people , in any, in our district thought the threats were real. And I'm sure the authorities truly thought the gunman had fled the area and not headed into the classrooms.

just my two cents.

[Regina Phalange]

At first I also wondered why the campus wasn't locked down sooner, but then I started to think about it like this: there are small towns the size of that student body, and when a crime is committed in one part of town, police don't lock down the town. I think they had reason to believe it was isolated, and with two people dead, the campus police already had their hands full. That alone was probably more crime than a security team called upon mostly to break up noisy parties had ever seen.

While I am not totally angry with VT campus police yet....I am very dissapointed that more wasn't done. A campus isn't a town....same rules don't apply! The gunman killed two people and then just left. They had no idea where he was. A much more aggressive message should have been spread through the campus!!

ETA: People in the residence hall where the first two victims were killed (just one floor above) didn't even know anything had happened before the second shootings started. That's scary.

[suzubeane]

While I am not totally angry with VT campus police yet....I am very dissapointed that more wasn't done. I am, too, but OTOH, I'm really not sure this was preventable.

[snowzilla]

At first I also wondered why the campus wasn't locked down sooner, but then I started to think about it like this: there are small towns the size of that student body, and when a crime is committed in one part of town, police don't lock down the town. I think they had reason to believe it was isolated, and with two people dead, the campus police already had their hands full. That alone was probably more crime than a security team called upon mostly to break up noisy parties had ever seen.

In light of what happened in August with the escaped inmate, I'm surprised they didn't take more drastic measures. I'm not hammering the administration, but I do question what their thought process was.

[Regina Phalange]

I am, too, but OTOH, I'm really not sure this was preventable.

No, not preventable...the only person who could have prevented this was the gunman...but I don't think all that could have been done, was done. I just think back to my days on college campus and think of how upset I would be if I discoverd two people were killed on the floor below me earlier that morning and I was not alerted.

Like I said perviously, there are several support groups popping up on Facebook. Many of them are confirming names (5 thus far) of victims and friends are adding pictures. My heart just aches for these students, teachers, family and friends affected by this event.

[Sophia]

In light of what happened in August with the escaped inmate, I'm surprised they didn't take more drastic measures. I'm not hammering the administration, but I do question what their thought process was.

Exactly.

I don't think the press is being overzealous in asking these questions--many people are wondering, and it's their job to ask.

[Delta]

Yes, it is their job to ask but IMO they are taking it a bit far. At that press conference today they were like sharks smelling blood in the water. And on CNN tonight they were trying to get the kids to say that they were upset with the school but the kids weren't taking the bait. The school and the students are still trying to sort through what just occured and the press is trying to create more drama.

[jnettie]

This is whole thing is horrible and heart wrenching.

At first I also wondered why the campus wasn't locked down sooner, but then I started to think about it like this: there are small towns the size of that student body, and when a crime is committed in one part of town, police don't lock down the town. I think they had reason to believe it was isolated, and with two people dead, the campus police already had their hands full. That alone was probably more crime than a security team called upon mostly to break up noisy parties had ever seen.

ITA. Campus Police is Campus Police. They're used to busting parties in dorms and making sure the library is empty after closing. And college towns are generally friendly places.

You know, I had a thought. What if this first shooting in the dorm was a way to get police attention diverted? Get them all on the other side of campus. If was really a rampage, would he wait to get all the way across campus to a very specific building?

I heard on CNN that they have IDed the guy, but aren't releasing anything more than he was Asian.

[imagirliegirl]

I've been thinking about this all day. It's so horrible. I feel silly for taking it so hard. It's weird, I was a high school senior when Columbine happened and it's so strange to now be a college student and see something like this happen again. My heart just breaks for all of those people. This is truly a national tragedy. It's such a shame.

I think it is ridiculous how the press is hammering the administration and police for not locking down the campus or giving more warning. The blame lies with gunman, not the school.

I agree. At first I wondered why they didn't lock the campus down but they thought the shooting was a random and isolated event so they didn't feel the need to create a panic. I just don't think there is anything they could have done that wouldn't have been criticized. And if this person was so determined to do this horrible deed, they would have just found a way to do it another day. They would have managed to not be caught for a few days and get the campus when their guard was down.

It's tragic for everyone, including whoever did this. I feel so sad for someone who felt they needed to resort to this violence. And I also feel awful for their friends and family who are left behind. :( It's just awful all around.

[melnv]

I think it is ridiculous how the press is hammering the administration and police for not locking down the campus or giving more warning. The blame lies with gunman, not the school.

While I totally agree with the sentiment that blame ultimately lies with the gunman, I just don't believe the school acted responsibly. Perhaps I'm looking at this too emotionally, but a school is not a town. Entrances can be closed, classes can be cancelled and the alarm system that was buzzing throughout the late footage could have been used earlier.

I don't understand why classes were cancelled earlier in the year when a gunman had potential to come near the school, but when one was actually on campus eight months later, less was done.

I'm sure there is a lot we still don't know, but I can understand the frustration toward the admin.

[Mrs. M.]

The BBC has email eyewitness accounts

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/6561335.stm

[msnicolea]

The VA TEch students I have seen interviewed are handling themselves with amazing grace--I have been so impressed.

My brother is a Tech grad--undergrad and master's--and was an engineering major. He is absolutely crushed, and remains concerned that professors he knew were killed. I just woke up so I'm not sure about any IDs yet.

I still can't wrap my head around it all--and although I know the campus cops tried their best, I can't help but think that they absolutely blew it by not lockikng down the campus. Every time I hear them they keep saying things like "assumed it was isolated" and "thought it was contained," etc. . . How can you make those assumptions?!?!?! Maybe it wouldn't have made a difference--but it seems to me that they should have erred n the side of caution.

[chefker]

We were out of the news loop a bit yesterday due to weather issues, but once I flipped on the news...wow. It's heartbreaking. :(

I was listening to NPR on my way in this morning, and it sounds like investigators are now trying to piece together a timeline and discover a motive--and whether or not the two shootings were connected, or not.

I think the administration could have done more to warn people after the first shooting. It's easy to second guess now, I suppose.

[camberne]

I think it is ridiculous how the press is hammering the administration and police for not locking down the campus or giving more warning. The blame lies with gunman, not the school.

The bottom line is - the campus should have been locked down until the shooter was contained. Period. End of story. You can't make any assumptions that it was an isolated incident when you have two students dead in a dorm with no gunman. You have to take action. The gunman was still somewhere if he wasn't at the scene, and there are students to protect. They made the wrong decision, and now they have to deal with it.

[c'est la vie]

U.S. Police May Have Identity of Virginia Tech Gunman
Authorities are investigating whether the shooter was a 24- year-old Chinese national who arrived in San Francisco on a United Airlines flight August 7 on a student visa issued in Shanghai, the Chicago Sun-Times newspaper reported on its Web site, citing an unidentified official. Jennifer Galt, a spokeswoman for the U.S. consulate in Shanghai, declined to comment. Source (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=apLdsmB.kP2U&refer=us)

[diam124]

The bottom line is - the campus should have been locked down until the shooter was contained. Period. End of story. You can't make any assumptions that it was an isolated incident when you have two students dead in a dorm with no gunman. You have to take action. The gunman was still somewhere if he wasn't at the scene, and there are students to protect. They made the wrong decision, and now they have to deal with it.


I agree. The school canceled classes twice last week for bomb threats - you would think they would have canceled them immediately when they found out they had 2 murders on their hands. Like I said before, I do feel badly for the school administrators who made these decisions. I'm sure they felt they were doing the right thing at the time.

[ginadc]

It's not just "the press" going after the school administration on the question of why they didn't lock down the campus or otherwise do more after the first shooting that might have prevented the much greater carnage of the second. I've seen a lot of comments from parents and students, both in the general media and on blogs, Facebook, and so on, to the same effect. It's a very reasonable question, especially given the history of school shootings, workplace shootings, and other such incidents over the last 15 years or so. Saying, "Well, we thought he had fled" just wouldn't cut it for me if my child were a student there (or if I were).

And in addition to the recent spate of bomb threats, it was less than a year ago that Virginia Tech was on high alert after an escaped prisoner killed a sheriff's deputy near the campus.

While the gunman is to blame for what happened, that doesn't mean the school has no responsibility for not acting more decisively to protect their students.

[mamapicklejuice]

CNN is now saying it was a student.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/vtech.shooting/index.html

Some of the victims are also identified in this article.

[kam]

I can't imagine thinking "we need to shut down this small city" after something that appeared to be a domestic dispute. That is what it appeared to be. A boyfriend shoots his girlfriend and another guy across your small town. Does that mean everything in your town shuts down? Does that mean your apartment building is locked down because of something 1 mile away?

We don't have all the information yet. That said, I've never been to VA Tech. The only thing close is UMASS which I understand is even smaller. There are students, professors and townspeople coming and going (at least at UMASS, where residents could use the facilities). I was a student part of a system where we could take classes, use the libraries, basically use everything there. I can't imagine this situation not happening. If the gunman hadn't shot those students, he would've shot others. If he didn't find them in the classroom, he would've found them on busses or gone to the residents.

We don't have all the information right now. I understand us questioning, but we don't know anything for certainty right now.

[ginadc]

But as someone already said, they canceled classes earlier (last week?) after bomb threats. No one had been hurt, they didn't know if it was a hoax or not, and yet they canceled classes. But they didn't do it after they knew two people were dead and they didn't know where the gunman was? That makes no sense.

[Sophia]

I don't see how they could think it was an isolated domestic dispute/murder-suicide unless they found a weapon on the scene. They also said that at that time they thought the shooter had left campus.

There's a new press conference going on right now.

[TracieB]

They are having a press conference right now and said that they aren't sure if the two shootings are linked. The shooter that was in Norris Hall was a student from South Korea studying English.

[Sophia]

From the press conference:

They've identified the shooter as a 23yo South Korean undergrad English student named Cho Seung Hui who lived on campus in a different dorm.

Ballistics show that one of the weapons recovered at Norris Hall matches the one used at the dorm.

[Sophia]

VT has cancelled classes for the rest of the week, and Norris Hall will be closed for the rest of the semester.

from press conference

[msnicolea]

My husband is a college professor and I know there are many members of this community who work at Colleges and Universities--I hope that all of these institutions do some serious talking this week about a reponse plan should, god forbid, the same thing occur on one of their campuses.

We are simply ill-prepared for disasters, natural or human-made, in this country.

The VA Tech campus police made errors of judgment--I honestly don't see how anyone can think otherwise!?!?!?!?

[Sophia]

Nicole, I agree. After the rash of shootings at middle and high schools most school districts came up with very specific plans--I expect universities will now be doing the same thing.

[Sophia]

ABC GMA is reporting that some of the same chain used to lock the doors shut was also found in the suspect's dorm room. And there are rumors a note was found.

[Sophia]

Update

BLACKSBURG, Virginia (CNN) -- Police identified the gunman who killed 32 people on the Virginia Tech campus before turning the gun on himself as student Cho Seung-Hui, university police Chief Wendell Flinchum said Tuesday.

The 23-year-old South Korean and resident alien lived at the university's Harper Hall, Flinchum said. He was an English major, the chief said.

Flinchum said ballistics tests showed that one of the two guns recovered at Norris Hall, where 30 people and the gunman died, was used in the Norris shooting and an earlier shooting at a dormitory that left two dead.

read more here (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/17/vtech.shooting/index.html)

[Kimberland30]

We are simply ill-prepared for disasters, natural or human-made, in this country.

Absolutely.

The VA Tech campus police made errors of judgment--I honestly don't see how anyone can think otherwise!?!?!?!?

Unless they had ESP and could foresee that the shooter would wait two hours, then strike again a half mile away, I don't see how they made errors in judgement. They went on what they knew. They had two dead bodies, and all witness accounts said that a couple was heard fighting, and two people were shot. They were interviewing a "person of interest". They had reason to believe that the suspect had fled the campus. Why would they not assume that this was an isolated domestic dispute?

The thing is, we are judging the campus police and administrators based on the WHOLE event. I believe that if the second shootings had not happened, nobody would be in an uproar because classes were not immediately canceled and the school was not immediately put on lock-down. It would definately be a tragedy, but I don't think that anyone would judge the admins/cops for keeping the school open.

It's easy in our position to point fingers and place blame. Just as there are those who are pointing fingers at the police/administrators, there are just as many who believe that they did nothing wrong and reacted on the information they had at the time.

[msnicolea]

Why did they have reason to believe the suspect had fled? Again--no suspect in custody and no weapon--they should have assumed and prepared for the worst.

[kam]

We are simply ill-prepared for disasters, natural or human-made, in this country.

Absolutely agree, but I think anyone who is involved in IT, large companies, academia, etc. have disaster plans which are reviewed by someone with supposed expertise. Apprently the disaster plan was being followed starting at the point of the first shooting, at least how CNN is reporting it; that report could be wrong. So I guess I question where the fault lies. Many of you are blaming the local law enforcement and I seriously question why, especially if they were following protocol and not making it up as they go along.

As for the classes being cancelled for a shooting vs. a bomb scare, again I use the small city reference. Actually, I'll use a big city reference as I experienced it. We were evacuated from our building because of a bomb threat down the block (at Macy's). There was a shooting down 10 blocks on the other side (near Hell's Kitchen), the shooter was never identified or captured, and I didn't know about it until well after the fact. I lived in a town about the size of VA Tech and a bomb scare would've been handled much differently than something that appeared to be a domestic dispute.

It is absolutely easy to find fault but at this stage, I think it is beyond premature until we know who, what, where and why. We know who. That's about it. Were the protocols in the disaster plan followed? If yes, then fault is with the plan, not the department. If the disaster plan was not followed, then I have a serious issue with the way law enforcement handled this case.

[Sophia]

From what I'm hearing on GMA and the press conference, it sounds like they had stopped a male friend of the female dorm victim in his car shortly after the first shootings and were still interviewing him when the second set of shootings happened. He's the "person of interest" who was "detained" yesterday. He apparently had dropped her off at her dorm that morning. I'm getting the impression they must have thought he was involved, because they must have been interviewing him a long time during that 2 hour gap if they were still interviewing him when the second shootings happened. That would also explain the previous comments about them thinking the shooter had fled the campus. They must have thought they had the guy in custody already.

[msnicolea]

Maybe you're right, Sophia--maybe they thought they had the shooter in custody. If that's the case, then I understand more clearly why they made the decisions they did. It might have just been a terrible misunderstanding/misreading of the facts that led to this tragedy.

[Kimberland30]

From what I'm hearing on GMA and the press conference, it sounds like they had stopped a male friend of the female dorm victim in his car shortly after the first shootings and were still interviewing him when the second set of shootings happened. He's the "person of interest" who was "detained" yesterday. He apparently had dropped her off at her dorm that morning. I'm getting the impression they must have thought he was involved, because they must have been interviewing him a long time during that 2 hour gap if they were still interviewing him when the second shootings happened. That would also explain the previous comments about them thinking the shooter had fled the campus. They must have thought they had the guy in custody already.

If this is indeed true, then I am even more convinced that TPTB reacted accordingly.

[msnicolea]

Maybe those of you who don't have a personal attachment to Tech could understand why those of us who do might be feeling angry and upset re: the police response. My husband grew up in Blacksburg and went there-my brother, my SIL--both were engineering majors there. MIL works there and for 2 hours yesterday, we didn't know where my FIL, a professor there, was. And I've receivned infomrmation from peope on campus yesterday that they felt as though there was a communications breakdown--and I think they would know.

[shopaholic]

how does everyone feel campus security should change in the future?

I know at my college back in 99-early 00's anyone could walk on campus and roam the buldings. I haven't been back to my college since 01-02 so I am not sure if anything has changed.

What exactly could be done? Colleges have so many various buildings. Metal detectors in all of them? Its not like an ID could do anything since this shooter was a student.

Can anything really be done to prevent another shooting like this?

[camberne]

I still don't agree that the decision to not lockdown the campus was the right one. Just based on the facts of the first shooting... they had no witness that the "person of interest" was the person who did the shooting, no evidence linking him to the crime and they still had no weapon. It is a school, not a city. Just because it's a large campus doesn't change the fact that it is a school and there are precautions that should have been taken until there was more concrete evidence that they had the right person. Especially given the recent bomb threats, a double-shooting should have interrupted the school schedule regardless of whether they were related or not. Better to err on the side of caution.

Maybe Cho would have found people to shoot regardless of a lockdown, but there would most likely have been less opportunity to get as many people as he did as people wouldn't be in classes - they would be in their rooms or not at school. The President said that people were commuting to the school, as only about 9000 people live on campus which is why they took so long to send out an email regarding the first shooting. A press release could have been issued to all the radio and tv stations cancelling classes. Just his explanations of why they waited so long to even issue an email don't make sense to me. It seems to me that they themselves realize that they didn't make the best decision and are now working to justify it - maybe to deflect legal consequences from the families of the victims?

[Kimberland30]

The VA Tech campus police made errors of judgment--I honestly don't see how anyone can think otherwise!?!?!?!?

What I typed above was in response to this. I was just explaining why I felt the way I do. I never said that I didn't understand why some people are angry and upset.

FWIW, I DO have a personal attachment to VT. Many of my friends graduated from there, and I have neighbors/coworkers with children that go there. So please don't assume that just because I feel the way I do, it's because I don't have an emotional attachment to this.

[Kimberland30]

Just a question...was there any sort of news coverage after the first shooting? Or did that only happen after the second one?

[kdotp]

Yes, the administration possibly *could* have done a better job with relaying the information and better containing the situation. But, with a campus of over 25,000 students, not to mention thousands of faculty and staff, that is a huge undertaking. The VT website states there are 100 buildings on 2,600 acres on just the main campus. That is an immense area to lock down and contain. And as someone said, even with a lockdown in effect after the second shootings, people were still able to "escape" and contact family.

From what I've been reading, the campus did not go into complete lockdown after the bomb threats. The buildings named in the threats were evacuated and closed and the main entrance to the campus was closed, but the rest of the campus remained open.

I went to Iowa State, which I believe is similar to VT in size and location to the effect the campus is not located in the center of the city, but rather off in its own area. I can't even fathom trying to lockdown a campus of that size. There are so many points of entry -- by road, by sidewalk, by even just open areas -- how can you possibly do that within a two-hour timespan? You can't. And how do you get the word to the students and faculty who commute and may be on the road at that time? And what about manpower? You would need, at a minimum, 200 people to effectively "guard" each building. From where do you pull that manpower? And, again, how do you get them there (assuming you need to pull surrounding county and state law enforcement) in a reasonable amount of time?

These things aren't instantaious. I'm guessing the administration, at best, knew about the first shooting 15-20 minutes after it happened. And then they have to discuss the best course of action, using the limited information they have from an investigation that had just started, which would take at least another 30 minutes, most likely more. So that's at least an hour after the first shooting that they could even start to take action. It's so easy for us who aren't in the situation to say "they should have done this or they should have done that" but in reality, they probably did the best they could given the limited information they had at the time. I honestly don't think any of us could do a better job if put in the same situation given the same information they had. I certainly wouldn't want to be put in that situation.

This is a horrible, tragic event. And I'm sure schools across the nation will be looking at their emergency plans and making changes or adjustments in an attempt to ensure something of this magnitude does not happen again.

[savannahgrl]

Just a question...was there any sort of news coverage after the first shooting? Or did that only happen after the second one?

Yes, there was alot of news coverage on Fox News after the first shooting. It was all that they were reporting on at the time and it was breaking news. I was not really paying close attention to it on the TV at the time as I was preoccupied with my son, but they had students calling in from that dorm saying that they were not allowed to leave.

ETA: From the news coverage after the first shooting I was under the impression that they had the suspect in custody.

[diam124]

There was news coverage of the first shooting, but I don't think that happened until after the second shooting actually took place. Then news of the details of the second incident was delayed.

I can certainly understand the difficulties associated with putting the university in lockdown. I can even understand why they thought it was an isolated incident. But, they sent out the email around 9:30 with very basic information that they were investigating a shooting. That email should have been sent out immediately IMO. It just saddens me that these students who were shot in class basically had no idea there was violence on their campus that morning. Who knows - they may have attended class anyway, but at least they would have had some knowledge that it was a risk to be on campus.

[Kimberland30]

Thank you, I didn't know. I didn't find out about this until late yesterday afternoon because I was holed up in my office.

[imagirliegirl]

how does everyone feel campus security should change in the future?


I honestly have no idea. Both of the Universities I have attended are really large and there is really no way to control who comes on the campus.

What exactly could be done? Colleges have so many various buildings. Metal detectors in all of them? Its not like an ID could do anything since this shooter was a student.

As a student, I would not like metal detectors. There is hardly enough time to move between buildings as it is. Can you imagine the backup that would be caused by metal detectors? It would be so inefficient.

I really feel there is not a whole lot that can be done to prevent things like this. We are talking about a bunch of adults, not high school kids that can (and will) be easily monitored.

I remember when I first went to college we had a few weeks where people were making bomb threats. They cancelled classes for almost a week then finally just put up signs offering a reward for whoever made threats and classes continued. I'm pretty sure it was just some student trying to get classes cancelled. It was right after 9/11 when everyone was really paranoid.

Maybe that's what the campus police at VT thought, that it was just some idiot student trying to cancel classes. I bet it will turn out that the bomb threats had nothing to do with the shooting. Someone who is going to shoot up a campus isn't going to make hollow bomb threats and risk getting everyone on alert.

This guy was clearly determined to do this, and he would have done it. If not yesterday, today. Or the next day that the campus resumed normal function. I think shutting the campus down would only delay the inevitable. Which is probably the scariest part of all.

[rene']

imagirliegirl - ITA.

[Sophia]

how does everyone feel campus security should change in the future?

....

What exactly could be done? Colleges have so many various buildings. Metal detectors in all of them? Its not like an ID could do anything since this shooter was a student.

Can anything really be done to prevent another shooting like this?

I'd like to see universities create or revise emergency response plans so that they address incidents like these.

I don't think metal detectors, etc., are necessary at this point.

[ysolde]

My husband is a college professor and I know there are many members of this community who work at Colleges and Universities--I hope that all of these institutions do some serious talking this week about a reponse plan should, god forbid, the same thing occur on one of their campuses.

We are simply ill-prepared for disasters, natural or human-made, in this country.

[emphasis mine]

Maybe I was exceptionally lucky, but my very first week at Stanford, in 1990, we had a meeting with our RA (I was living in an on-campus apartment complex called Raines Houses), and we discussed, in vivid, graphic detail, what the outcome of a catastrophic earthquake would be. We were given maps describing where large cylinders containing food, water, blankets, and first aid kits in our vicinity were located, and were divided into teams, based on our skills and abilities (medical, search and rescue, burial/cremation). We were told that we should expect to have to survive for two to four weeks without outside assistance, and that a minimum of 15% of the student population would die. Grim statistics, but we were prepared from day one.

[Scoutesina]

I am a staff member and also teach PT at a U (a much smaller one than VT) and have been frustrated at how lax security is and how unwilling the PTB are to seriously address this issue. I'm dismayed that no one is talking about this, even today, but hopefully the higher-ups are getting some better plans into place.

I'd like the faculty trained on what to do in these cases. The emergency response plan I saw on the news last night was telling faculty to stand and put their hands up if a shooter enters their class. What in the world good would that do?! I think the old fight or flight should be taught--if there's no way to flee, I would rather faculty be told to carry pepper spray and fight back than just stand there and hope to buy a split second of time for the students to flee. I have had a couple students that struck me as potential time bombs, and my DH and I would talk about strategies and such, but I think a whole lot of faculty don't want to think about it.

ETA: Also, I just remembered that our U has a way to call all students and leave a pre-recorded message (like about payment deadines, etc.) and I wonder if there is a way to get everyone's cell phone numbers in some kind of system and send them all a voicemail message at once in case of an emergency like this. Even though people are supposed to turn their phones off in class, invariably they don't, so that might give the administration a chance to reach students inside the classroom buildings and tell them to barricade themselves in their rooms.

[Sophia]

When I taught at a university we were told that if there was ever an emergency or classes were cancelled, etc, someone from the department office would go around to the classrooms to let us know. Not specific at all. Probably not helpful at all in a situation like this. I think it was designed more for weather-related emergencies.

[ysolde]

One of the morning shows was talking about sending out emergency text messages to all students in situations such as these. Not sure how that would work, but it seems more reliable than e-mails.

[allyray231]

ysolde I heard taht too-one of our local collegs does that I guess

[diam124]

One thing that I noticed that saddens me is that I was not as shocked by this violence as I was by the Columbine shootings. I was a senior in college then and I remember watching the live coverage and just being stunned that something like that could happen in a school. (that was also they day that my BIL was diagnosed with cancer, so I have very vivid memories of that horrible day).

Even though more than twice as many people died in this incident I am just not as surprised for some reason, unfortunately.:(

[kam]

Maybe those of you who don't have a personal attachment to Tech could understand why those of us who do might be feeling angry and upset re: the police response.

I don't think anyone is saying "Oh, don't be angry." But the blame might be misplaced here; what I'm saying is it's too early to tell at this point. They might've thought they had the guy in custody. They could have been following procedure. They could have been incompotent fools. I went through that bomb scare less than a week after 9/11 in midtown manhattan less than a week after going through total chaos. I get the anger, the fear. I also know that if you don't have a personal connection, someone who does will feel that they can't get it 100%. But while there have been people connected who are angry at the communication, others directly involved have also said "No way, no how could they have locked down the campus." So I don't think the difference of opinion has anything to do with the connection to the campus.

[ginadc]

In any case, I think these are reasonable questions to be asking. It may turn out that the university officials acted as they should have and there was really nothing else they could have done, but I think that the facts of the situation as they're understood thus far clearly leave at least some reasonable people wondering what the heck university officials were thinking. It might be fair to say "I think they probably did everything they could," but I also think it's equally fair to say, "This doesn't seem to add up, and I want to know why." This doesn't make people vultures or cruel or Monday-morning quarterbacks. They are completely appropriate questions to ask.

[Sophia]

Profiles of victims in Virginia Tech massacre (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18143312/) source: MSNBC.com

[Regina Phalange]

Again I say for those who don't think the school did anything wrong.....

If you were living in that dorm or right next to it and two people had just been killed and no suspect had be found, would you not want to know? Would you not want to stay in your room or get away from the scene or get together with your friends to feel safe?

I can't imagine two people dying in my residence hall and still being required to go to class.

I DON'T think the killings could have been prevented but I do think more measures should have been taken...just for the sake of being able to say "We did all we could".

[fuzzy]

This is such tragic event.

That said, I have to agree with those who have said that it is a bit premature, in my opinion, to start questioning whether or not there should have been a lock down. Frankly, I'm trying to wrap my head around the logistics of that. I went to a similiarly sized university and no way would that have even been possible.

I work as an administrator at a teeny tiny residential college now and, thinking about it, I don't think a complete lock down would be possible here, either. At least, not something that wouldn't take hours. We had handful of bomb threats that occurred a few years ago. They sent out e-mails immediately and attempted to evacuate parts of campus, but it was terribly difficult. The janitorial and groundskeeping staff, for instance, don't have access to computers and most don't have cell phones. We certainly don't have enough security staff to cover every building on campus. And there are so many "informal" pathways off campus that couldn't be secured...

I'm not saying they did a good job. I'm not saying they didn't. I'm just not ready to pass judgement on anyone, outside of the shooter, yet.

[Esq.]

It has been reported that the shooter was looking for someone in the ENgineering building, right? I bet he was looking for the guy they had in custody, considering that was the guy who dropped off the female victim at the dorm at 7:00 a.m. Sad to think, but maybe so many would not have been shot if he had not been detained.

There are just so many variables here. I think it is too soon to know where the breakdowns and misteps really occured.

[Sophia]

It has been reported that the shooter was looking for someone in the ENgineering building, right? I bet he was looking for the guy they had in custody, considering that was the guy who dropped off the female victim at the dorm at 7:00 a.m. Sad to think, but maybe so many would not have been shot if he had not been detained.


ABC/GMA was reporting that the friend who was detained attends a different university.

My theory, based on what I've heard (so take all this with pounds of salt), is that the girl from the dorm was avoiding the shooter (because they broke up or he was stalking her?) and stayed over at a friend's place. The friend dropped her off that morning so she could get ready for class and was mistakenly thought to be involved, so for a time he was detained by police. The shooter conforonted the girl in her dorm room and the RA tried to intervene. They were both shot. The shooter went to his dorm room, then proceeded to Norris Hall to look for someone else, possibly a guy the girl was involved with. Again, just my theory.

[kris97]

I think what's frustrating about the questions of blame is that, whenever something terrible happens, they start immediately - before we even know what happened, before we know who was killed, before we even know how many victims. This seems to happen after every tragic event in the US recently - from September 11th to Katrina to this. Before the blood is dry, you have people on both sides of the aisle pointing fingers and -- and I'm not directing this to anyone here -- using it as reinforcement for their political views. In even the earliest articles, there were people saying how this proved that guns should be made more/less accessible to the public.

Of course the response should be evaluated. And of course questions should be asked. BUt can't we mourn the victims before doing that? Can't we wait a day? In the rush to understand things, I worry that we demonize everyone but the person to whom blame should be placed - the shooter who killed 32 people.

[SingleWhiteFemale]

A picture has been posted of the gunman. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18148802/?GT1=9246)

[shopaholic]

The shooter went to his dorm room, then proceeded to Norris Hall to look for someone else, possibly a guy the girl was involved with. Again, just my theory.
Not saying your theory is wrong but if you are targeting someone specific why take down others? I think I have watched too many "inside the mind of a mass murderer/serial killer" type shows to believe he was solely targeting 2 people.

[elladee]

I think what's frustratin