For those that didn't sleep train

[mgrace]

I'm curious.

For those of you that didn't do any sleep training (no CIO, nursing to sleep, didn't do any no-cry-sleep-solution, etc.), did your baby's/child's sleep improve as they got older? Did they start sleeping through the night on their own? Did their nap routine become established? If so, how old were they when this happened? It seems that there is so much focus on sleep training, getting them to sleep on their own without rocking, etc., that I'm really curious to hear from those that didn't sleep train. Am I wrong to think that, at some point, sleep comes naturally? I mean, I've never heard of a college student that still sleeps in their swing or that needs to be rocked or nursed to sleep. :p

[AlisonCO]

I never did any training with my kids and they both did eventually start sleeping on their own. With DD we really focused on the before bed routine and making sure that she had a full belly - when she woke in the middle of the night we would always go to her right away (still do) and pat her back or pick her up briefly. She started sleeping thru (7-7) at 10mo when she also night weaned. DS has never been a "good sleeper" but things did improve at 12m and now at 3.5 he does pretty well. With DS I knew that we would not do any CIO but I just spent far too much time and energy worrying about his sleep, comparing him to other kids etc - with DD I told myself that I wouldn't do that again. I feel like there is so much pressure to have our kids sleep thru at a young age - it is like you are a crappy parent and something is wrong if your kid isn't sleeping 8 hours at 4 week old!

BTW I did all the "wrong" things with both kids (nursed to sleep, rocked to sleep, co-slept, let them sleep in their carseat/swing) and I ended up with one good and one not so good sleeper - so I am convinced that alot of it is their personality.

[Marisa]

We didn't sleep train, CIO, or anything. My son nursed to sleep well after he was 2, to be honest. (He was "nightweaned" before age two, though -- he'd nurse before bed and not again until morning, even if he woke.)

And then sometime around his third birthday, it's like someone flipped a switch in his brain, and he was "ready". He sleeps in his toddler bed, through the night... He no longer naps (dropped the last one at around 2y, 9m) so he goes down around 6:30 PM. Sometimes he wakes at 5 AM and climbs into bed with us (sometimes it's even earlier than 5), but we can carry him back in and he'll go back to sleep for another hour or so.

There were two things that worked for us. The big one is "patience". That's often easier said than done, of course. :)

The other is "routine". If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have tried the routine thing a bit earlier. We have a pretty rigid routine in place now, with dinner, bath, book, and then lights out, music and "fish tank" (one of those cheapy moving lights from the discount store) on. I often sit in the rocker in his room, reading my magazine, until he dozes off... but that takes about 10 minutes tops (and at that point in the day I'm ready to sit for a minute with my US Weekly... :))

[Mrs. M.]

We didn't do sleep training with DD1. I never could let her cry. Our bedtime routine was that I nursed and then we read a book/sang songs until she was ready to go to sleep.

At about 6.5 months, we put her in her own room, and for a while I went in to nurse her when she woke up hungry (once a night). She stopped waking up a few weeks after that and now sleeps through the night unless she is sick.

As for naps, that's another story. She really only slept in her stroller. So we took a walk every day. Once she was asleep though, you could go anywhere with the stroller, she kept sleeping until her nap was done. I used to just go to a cafe or park and read.

With DD2, I nurse her and put her in her bed awake. She does not seem to like the singing :D She babbles for a while and then goes to sleep. On a good night, she will sleep from 8 to 2 or 3, nurse once and then sleep until the morning. I am confident she will eventually start STTN.

[Toonces]

We didn't sleep train either of our kids. My DD is almost 2.5 yo. I either rocked her to sleep or nursed her to sleep until she was 22 months old. At that time I was 3 months away from my due date with DS, I was huge, my milk supply tanked, she weaned... there was a lot going on. She was a bear to get down for naps and bedtime from the day she was born. When she was 22-24 months old she started falling asleep on her own for naps and bedtime. I never thought she'd get to that point. One month ago she started dropping her nap. Now she naps maybe once/week. She still falls asleep on her own for bedtime. I co-sleep with her and 4 month old DS. DS falls asleep in a pouch with either me or DH walking around with him, or by cradling him in our arms and walking with him/swaying him, or by me nursing him to sleep (this has only happened a handful of times).

[NicoleWisconsin]

I always rocked or nursed my son to sleep and we co-sleep. At about 2, we stopped nursing to sleep and just laying there together instead.

Bed time is so easy with him. We put on pajamas, read books, brush teeth, and lights out. He goes right so sleep. Sometimes he talks a little, but bed time has never been difficult with him.

He does STTN now and has for just a few months.

[solongtogo]

I also fed DD until she fell asleep or rocked until DD fell asleep. My daughter has never been a good sleeper, but now she's up maybe 2x a night for only a few minutes at a time, compared to she used to get up for like 4 hours every night. So she did get better, but it took a goood 15 months....

[jki]

We didn't sleep train DS. He never cried for a moment outside of someone's arms. He was always nursed or rocked to sleep - for hours.... we just gradually lessened the amount of rocking and he started sleeping through the night on his own at around 4 months. His naps started following the patterns described in Weissbluth's book around 6 months.

[SiValleySteph]

Hmmm... my son is 2-1/2 and I consider him a very excellent sleeper, although I'm sure some will not. :)

I nurse him right before bed and he goes to sleep on my lap around 8:15 or so. (Does not generally fall asleep nursing.) I pop him into his bed. At some point, he wakes up and comes into our room. I pull him up onto our bed and he goes right back to sleep and sleeps between us until about 6:45-7. He is allowed to nurse at 7am and we just lay there until then if he wakes up.

I think that's pretty good. :) I'm of the motto, if it's not broke, don't fix it, so we're not trying to put him to sleep without nursing or keep him from coming into our room. It works just fine for us and is very easy, everyone is well rested.

I did do a night wean when he was 27 months old because he was still waking up wanting to nurse in the night. It only took a couple of nights for him to catch on.

ETA - We're not very "scheduled." We do a lot of out and about type things, so I was/am willing to sacrifice rigid routines, naptimes, etc. and potentially better sleep for the ability to go out to dinner, go on vacation, etc. without worrying about disrupting things.

And an ETA #2 - DS started out basically STTN at 2 months, but it all went crazy at 4 mo when he started waking more on his own. You never know!

[cr8zyforaf]

I didn't sleep train (or maybe I tried to very unsuccessfully and just gave up) - I fed to sleep, rocked, swaddled, re-rocked, re-swaddled, co-slept for almost 17 months and then some miracle hit our home and she now goes into her crib awake and STTN for the most part...she does whimper when I walk out of the room but never full on crying/screaming.

I thought I would be wrapping her in queen bed sheets and rocking her well into her teens. Daycare helped us, as they have all the babies on a good schedule and really didn’t rock her once she got past 6-8 months. I have no idea how she stopped feeding to sleep or didn’t want to be rocked anymore..it just happened naturally.

So, despite everyone telling me I was ‘spoiling’ her by not letting her cry, holding her, sleeping with her, feeding her to sleep and that she would never sleep, she does and I wish I hadn’t spend to much time worrying about it.

[Pink_Converse]

I didn't really sleep train either. His nap schedule eventually got established naturally maybe around 7 mo. old? I can't remember. He naps at 10 am and somewhere between 2 and 4 in the afternoon. We co-slept until he was 9 mo. old. we put him in his own bed and he slept soooo much better on his own in his crib and has been doing it ever since now. He's 10 mo. old. He usually STTN and if he does wake it's only breifly. If I can't get him back down in his room he comes to ours. That rarely happens. DS eats dinner, gets a bath, one last bottle when he starts looking sleepy, usually around 8-9and then I change him one last time and rock him in his room. I occassionally do my version of CIO which lasts all of two minutes! If he doesn't fall asleep I rock him. Sometimes rocking him won't put him to sleep but putting him in his crib with his womb sounds bear and patting him does. I pretty much follow his cues but try to make sure he gets two naps a day and goes to bed around the same time.

[bluebunny]

We've never gotten a good nap routine down so DS is still a crappy napper (sleeps great in the car, though!). Around 17-18 months, we transitioned him to a toddler bed and he went from 3-5 night wakings to 1-2. From about 21-26 months, he was pretty much STTN (11 hours) but has started back to one nightwaking since DD was born. :rolleyes: DS is high needs, though, so that made a difference. I can already tell that DD will be a much better sleeper. :)

[jbenny75]

I'm glad to hear that this does happen naturally, since I have the feeling I will be rocking DS (9 months) to sleep for awhile and he still gets up a couple of times a night on a good night. On a bad night (teething, ear infection, stuffy nose) he'll be up every hour or two. I'm just not willing to let him cry and since he's very strong-willed and persistent, he doesn't give up easily. Also because of this:

I feel like there is so much pressure to have our kids sleep thru at a young age - it is like you are a crappy parent and something is wrong if your kid isn't sleeping 8 hours at 4 week old!


SO many people will say, "So, does he sleep through the night for you?" and it seems like they're expecting me to say yes. Maybe I have a complex about it, but I feel like they just don't know what to say when I say no and tell them he still gets up a couple of times a night. I just started kind of dancing around the question.

I see light at the end of the tunnel. There are some times in the middle of the night when he isn't rocking into a deep sleep and he'll awake when I put him down. I've started putting on his aquarium, tell him good night, and leaving the room. He's actually gone to sleep himself a few times.

[bamboo]

We never sleep trained. DD is 23 months old, and her naps have been regular (though very short) for a long time now. Since about 15 months I think, she's had one mid-day nap, before that it was a morning and afternoon one. Her naps sorted themselves out early on, but because they were so short I usually just let her nap on me in the sling or mei tei so we didn't have to bother coming home for just half an hour. And yes, I tried everything I was willing to try (i.e. no crying) to get her to nap longer, and it just wasn't the way her body worked.

Her overnight sleep has gone through great phases, and not so great phases honestly. We coslept until about a month ago, so sleep was great from our perspective even though she woke several times a night to nurse. She could just latch on and murse herself and I wouldn't even realize it. But, she is very bothered by teething, so there were times when she woke up often before we joined her in bed, which was frustrating. But it's teeth, so we weren't about to do any sleep training for that.

At around 18 months we stopped nursing to sleep- we took 3 nights and taught her to fall asleep lying in bed with us present in the room, no crying involved. Then about a month ago we moved her to her own bed in her own room, and she wakes usually 3 times in the night- twice DH resettles her and once I nurse her. Some people would consider that terrible sleep, and while I won't lie and say it wouldn't be nice if she slept right through, we trust that she'll get there in her own time.

[Delta]

We never did any sleep training with our oldest, nor are we currently with our newest. We just follow cues. They fell into the normal sleep patterns/schedules on their own without a problem.

Really, the biggest piece of advice that I got was from the Weissbluth book - (that I've never read, actually) - about being aware of your baby's sleep cues every 1.5 to 2 hours after he wakes up during the day.

Our oldest always slept on his tummy and would nurse to sleep in bed - so that's what I did for 2 years for naps and nighttime. Of course, at some point in there (around a year) my DH was able to get him to sleep also by laying down with him and singing, patting his back, etc. Once he moved out of our bed at a year he slept on a mattress in his room - eliminating the need for any sort of transfer to a crib.

Our new baby won't nurse to sleep so easily and prefers to be rocked (while nursing, or bounced to sleep.) This requires more physical effort but is just as effective. He sleeps usually in his cradle swing (I know, I know) and he's almost 6 months old. It's only still safe for him because he's swaddled and can't move. In the next week or 2 I'm going to start putting him down on the bed (swaddled) to sleep so we'll see how that goes. Actually, he sleeps in the swing for naps and the first part of the night, then with us when he wakes up at night.

[Delta]

Oh yeah, and I think the key is to not set any sleep expectations at all. I never expected our first to start sleeping through the night until he was like 3 or so, and I was pleasantly surprised when that happened without a problem when he was almost 2 (I think? It could have been earlier.) I know it sounds crazy because the societal expectation is to have them STTN at like 6 months but I paid no mind, and really, it helps.

[bea_mama]

We never sleep trained DD#1 (now 3.5 years). She hated being put down in her crib awake (which we started around 1 year) and we ended up sitting in her room every night until she fell asleep. Turns out, she HATED her crib. The day we moved her to her big girl bed (around 2 years 4 months), she happily climbed in, snuggled into her comfy pillows and blankets and settled in for the night. She's a great sleeper now! We do have a routine of bath, pjs, teeth brushing, 2-3 stories, lights out and one of us stays for "one minute". Then we leave and she goes to sleep on her own.

I swore up and down that I would sleep train DD#2, but here we are at almost a year and I nurse her to sleep and she co-sleeps. Oops.

In retrospect, I really shouldn't have bought that expensive crib. :p

[mrselle]

We didn’t do any sleep training with our seven month old. She started sleeping through the night when she was about 12 weeks old. In the beginning she would start crying around 4am, but she wasn’t hungry, so we’d put her in the bed with us and she would fall right back to sleep. She slept in our room until she was about six months old. The first night we put her in her own room she woke up about an hour after she fell asleep, so we put her back in our room. We figured she probably wasn’t use to waking up in her room, so we started letting her take her naps in her room. I would say it was about a week before she started sleeping in her room all night. She might let out a little cry in the middle of the night, but its usually because she can’t find her pacifier. She goes down between 7:30pm and 8:30pm and wakes up between 6:30am and 7:00am. It’s only been within the last couple of months that I’ve noticed her naps slipping into a routine. In the morning she has her first bottle at 7am. She usually goes back to sleep for about two hours, then she is up for the day. She takes a good nap between 12pm and 1pm. That nap is usually an hour to two hours long. Then she’ll do another short nap later in the afternoon. She doesn’t like for us to rock her to sleep or cuddle her if she’s sleepy, so we just put her in her crib and she’ll fall asleep on her own within about 15 minutes if she’s tired.

[jmvan74]

We never did any sleep training w/ DS#1 and I didn't nurse to sleep. I always made DH put him to bed, so nursing was not directly connected w/ bed time. He started sleeping through the night around 10 or 11 months (meaning 8 hour stretches). At 21 months he sleeps 11-12 hours a night and if he wakes up, he soothes himself back to sleep. ;)

[Ohana]

We haven't sleep trained either of our DD's.

With DD#1, she was nursed to sleep until my supply died at 16-17 months. After that, we always laid down with her and stayed with her until she fell asleep (sometimes two hours). We transitioned her to a toddler bed and inevitably, one of us slept on the floor next to her every night. We finally just got her a full sized bed and one or the other of us would go in and stay with her when she woke up in the middle of the night.

Sometime around the time DD#2 was born (DD#1 was almost 3), something clicked. We were able to leave her in her room while she was still awake. She started sleeping through the night somewhat reliably. She now goes to bed around 7:30 every night and sleeps through until 6 the next morning. Her naps have always been rock solid and she still takes a good 1.5-2 hour nap every day.

DD#2 has been much easier. I just follow her cues. When she seems tired, I'll offer to nurse her and she usually falls asleep nursing (on the couch). I'll transfer her to her crib and she'll sleep there until 1-2 in the morning. When she wakes, I bring her to our bed, feed her, and fall back asleep. She wakes up around 6, just like her sister. And like her sister, she is a rock solid napper.

If I had it all to live over again, I likely would have been more watchful of DD#1's cues. Too often, we were too busy doing stuff to really notice that she was tired. She'd get overtired and then not be able to fall asleep. I'd also start a better after work/bedtime routine so that she had a better routine and better sleep.

[linda_loo]

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[SiValleySteph]

Linda, Do you think if you had done the CIO to extinction method earlier it would have made any difference for your older daughter? Or do you think she just has this sleep personality built in?

[DallasLady]

DD is 6 months old and we never did anything to "train" her, she just started sleeping on her own. We swaddled when she was really little, but she has outgrown that. I do nurse before bed, but the nursing doesn't usually put her to sleep anymore. I put her in the crib awake, turn on her music and leave the room.

[linda_loo]

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[SiValleySteph]

Oh yeah, definitely worth it. I was just curious if now looking back if you would suggest something different. That's all. :)

I think about that sometimes, like "knowing what I know now" would I have done things differently. I think for us, no, we would do the same. Maybe night wean a bit earlier.

[cr8zyforaf]

I also look back and think that I couldn't have done things any different - it was just DD's personality and there was nothing I could have done about it...which kind of s*cks because it is something that is so huge that you have absolutely no control over.

[mgrace]

Thanks everyone. I think this thread is so interesting. It's so interesting to see the different ages in which everyone's baby slept well. It is also nice to know that there isn't a *need* to sleep train. :)

I also look back and think that I couldn't have done things any different - it was just DD's personality and there was nothing I could have done about it...which kind of s*cks because it is something that is so huge that you have absolutely no control over.
I've always sort of thought this, but now totally agree with it. You just can't change a personality.

[SiValleySteph]

It's funny that this thread got bumped up because I was thinking about sleep this morning...

The strangest thing happened last night. I nursed DS (31mo) in his bed and he was still wide awake. I didn't feel like laying there, so I told him "I need to ... and I'll be back in 5 min." I left, no crying, he didn't get out of bed (regular bed). I came back, did the same. Still awake. So I told him I was going down to eat, he should just stay there and go to sleep and I would check on him later. He said okay, so I left and we didn't hear another peep. We checked in 30min later and he was sleeping away!

Who knew? I guess he's just about ready to go to sleep on his own. I never would have known if I didn't give it a try.

He did come into our room around 3:45 - fine by me!

[Ohana]

SiValleySteph That's pretty much how we got DD#1 to sleep by herself too! I told her I had to go start laundry or wash dishes and that I would be back in a few minutes to check on her. She was dead asleep by the time I got around to checking her about 30 minutes later.

[mgrace]

That is awesome, SiValleySteph!

[Marisa]

Steph, that's pretty much how it happened with us too! I think that he was just 'ready', so he did it -- no training, no crying, no drama.

[SiValleySteph]

:D It was so exciting. Yet so anti-climatic. I'm not really in a rush, so we'll see if it pans out. If not, I'll keep laying with him 'til he's asleep. No hurry at this point since there is not a #2 on the way or anything.

[janders6]

We didn't sleep train DD, who is now almost 2.5 and I really wonder what would have happened if we had. She has a very hard time falling asleep on her own and insists that we're in her room and preferably close enough to her that she can touch us. SHe usually goes to bed around 8-8:30. Sometime in the middle of the night she wakes up and joins us in bed. Its miserable. SHe moves so much in her sleep that I wake up every morning completely exhausted. I have tried to leave her in her room (she can open the door, so we put up a gate so she doesn't fall down the stairs) when she wakes up during the night, but she gets so hysterical that she vomits. I'm hoping she grows out of it. With baby #2, I think we'll definitely sleep train. I can't handle another 2-3 years of no sleep for me.

[Marisa]

Honestly, I wouldn't make an effort to change anything for a second baby based solely on my experience with the first one -- CIO or no CIO, there's no one way that "works" with all babies. So much depends on the temperament of the child, and I believe that's at least partially 'nature' rather than 'nurture' anyway.

[bluebunny]

originally posted by janders6We didn't sleep train DD, who is now almost 2.5 and I really wonder what would have happened if we had. She has a very hard time falling asleep on her own and insists that we're in her room and preferably close enough to her that she can touch us. SHe usually goes to bed around 8-8:30. Sometime in the middle of the night she wakes up and joins us in bed. Its miserable. SHe moves so much in her sleep that I wake up every morning completely exhausted. I have tried to leave her in her room (she can open the door, so we put up a gate so she doesn't fall down the stairs) when she wakes up during the night, but she gets so hysterical that she vomits. I'm hoping she grows out of it. With baby #2, I think we'll definitely sleep train. I can't handle another 2-3 years of no sleep for me.


Our DS sounds like your DD. He's two and a half and still wakes up in the middle of the night and ends up in bed with us. Our DD, on the other hand, is a great sleeper. She's four months old and puts herself to sleep, no problem! The difference between the two is night and day!! So maybe you won't have to sleep train your #2; s/he might just be born a great sleeper! :)

[janders6]

Bluebunny - I hope so! I guess I should have reworded my post to say that if DC#2 has the same difficulty sleeping as DD, that I would be willing to sleep train. I know that its important to follow a child's cues, but I wonder if I did DD a disservice by not allowing her to figure out how to fall asleep on her own - I read Ferber and Weissbluth and Sears and Pantley, but wasn't comfotable with CIO and didn't think it would work for her. She doesn't even take naps and hasn't since before she turned 2, so it seems like she's always overtired and crabby. The only time she falls asleep without us holding her or without her holding onto my hair is when she's in the car. I'm just really frustrated with the lack of sleep and am pregnant and could really use more than 4 hours of sleep a night.

[SiValleySteph]

Just an update - DS feel asleep all by himself last night again (!) and slept all night in his room in his bed. Craziness. He did wake up at 6:20, though, instead of closer to 7. I'll take it anyways. We need to get some blackout shades for his room, though, because he is in a sun obsession phase right now ... "Mommy, Daddy, the sun is up. The sun is up. It's time to get up. It's not nap time!" And it's now impossible to get him to bed before 8:15 or so when the sun goes down. It's only going to get worse as it gets closer to summer!!

janders, I hope that things get easier for you soon! DS is 31mo and I've always nursed, held, cuddled to sleep with him, but now it seems he's ready to go to bed by himself. I hope something like this happens for you. I'm sure it's stressful with another baby on the way!

[janders6]

Thanks Steph. Its reassuring to read that it may just click for her as she gets closer to 3.

[mgrace]

I just wanted to bump this back up and say thank you for sharing your experiences. I'm so glad that I followed my gut feeling and we didn't sleep train. I am a huge believer in "each child is different and they will do it when they are ready". That is my mantra. :) I know it's true for our child because we haven't done a thing different and we started to see a change about a month ago.

I really wish I wouldn't have worried about it so much. And while I wish I hadn't spent the time "reading" sleep books, I am glad I didn't buy them. :)


So much depends on the temperament of the child, and I believe that's at least partially 'nature' rather than 'nurture' anyway.
Totally.

[zhannushka]

We didn't sleep train and so far - we haven't had to. DS just goes to sleep on his own whenever I put him down for the night in his PnP (he still sleeps in a PnP by my side of the bed). As he got older (he's 7 months old now), it's been taking him a little longer to actually fall asleep. He used to be out the minute I put him in the PnP, but now he'll lay there for 10-15 minutes, just tossing and turning and cooing (never crying) until he falls asleep. I stay in the same room until he is asleep just to make sure that he's OK, but I'm not right next to him.

[Scooter]

I never added our experience to this thread. We never sleep trained DD, and she was a high needs baby. Still is, as a toddler. :P Because of that, we cosleep. I had only planned to do that for about 6mos, but it ended up being the best way for everyone to get sleep!

Anyway, we just made sure to get a rock solid, calming, bedtime and naptime routine. For naptime: tell her ahead of time, bring her to her room, pull the blinds closed, put on her ocean sounds cd, change her diaper, read a story or two, nurse in the glider, then rock to sleep. Transfer her to our bed/her crib. Same with bed except we do a bath first. It really helps her calm herself down and get in the right mood and get comfortable--I think that has a lot to do with teaching someone to go to sleep.

Around 12 mos she decided to wean herself at night and started STTN. I did nothing, it was all her. By now (15mos) she's able to go to sleep within minutes of cuddling in my arms in the glider, sometimes without even nursing (just her pacifier and maybe a small sippy cup of water or milk).

It's not always perfect, but I know it's fine and she'll be independent in time. I really wish I hadn't doubted what we were doing all those months when it was difficult. I wish I'd stopped trying to do little things to work towards her putting herself to sleep by herself. I guess I was so worried she wouldn't develop enough coping skills or we'd be doing this for 3 years or something--if I'd just relxed it probably would have been easier during some of those really hard months (like months 5-11, though were rough times).

[dana b]

not sure if i ever posted here. we haven't used cio with either child -- dd started sttn at 10 mos, still woke up once in a while after that, but has been a pretty good sleeper ever since. ds is 11 mos old, he's a great napper, easy to put down, but wakes up at least 4 times a night -- it's been kind of a nightmare :( i'm a big believer in co-sleeping and really thought it would work for everyone, not this kid though, if he's in bed with me, then he's waking up every 15 minutes. right now we're just trying to be patient and find other ways to get some sleep.

[junkinmytrunk]

Never, ever sleep trained. DS woke thru the night until 7 months, and STTN until about 12 months, and was back to UTTN due to teething. Finally began really, truly STTN at 15 months. He always slept in his crib for night-time, and only slept in the PnP for naps for about the first 12 weeks. So we were lucky that he loved his crib.

[mgrace]

Bumping this back up... I (foolishly) thought that once they would put them selves to sleep (alone) that they would begin to STTN. Wrong. Has this happened to anyone else?

[wendalah]

You may want to try the following:

1) Feed on schedule (whether you are breast or bottle-feeding)--nothing too rigid, just on a basic track, every three hours or so, and make sure the baby gets a good amount during the day hours.

2) Keep nighttime different from daytime. Make the baby's room darker and quieter, don't talk to him/her when you feed at night, keep it all business.

This helped us. I will add our baby didn't enjoy cosleeping so we put her in her own room early on, although I did spend several weeks sleeping in her room (separately).

[nuhmah]

We didn't sleep train, or CIO. DS slept with us until he was about 15 months - and I would nurse or snuggle him to sleep every night. He started STTN right around 13 months, and it better soon after we weaned (15 months), but I don't think it had anything to do with nursing. He was night-weaned much sooner, so I know that wasn't it.

Honestly, teething was the *worst* time for us - he cut the most teeth from months 10-12, and our nights (and naps) were nothing but battles for us for a long time.

At 16 months, we moved him to a mattress on the floor next to our bed. He started putting himself to sleep, and many times would STTN this way. When he didn't, he would just climb up into bed with us and finish out the night that way. Now he goes to his bed on his own, tucks himself in, and puts himself to sleep with no problems. He sleeps through the night this way, sleeping on his own mattress across the room. We are getting ready to move him to his own room soon.

[TracyDP]

I was just cruising old threads when I came on this one. I wanted to bump it up since it seems I am one of those that are not really doing any sleep training with my DD. I read the sleep habits thread and sometimes come away feeling like I SHOULD be doing something, but then letting her cry just doesn't seem needed and being a SAHM I don't really care what time she goes to bed or wakes up (unless she was waking up before 7am!)

I guess I have done a very limited amount of CIO since she fusses sometimes at naps and bedtime and I go in to soothe her 2 times if she ramps up and isn't going to sleep. After the second time I will let her fuss for 10 minutes then go in again, but very very rarely does she go that long before crashing out. I suppose on the sleep training angle I would just let her go on the first try and stop going in to her, and maybe eventually that will happen, but for now at 7m old I am OK with comforting her a bit before she goes to sleep if she is seeming agitated. I guess I have also just been blessed with a really good sleeper so I haven't had to really consider getting serious. I tend to agree with someone who posted in this thread a ways back. It really does depend on your DC's disposition and personality. Some babies might need sleep training to help get them on track, and some will just fall into a routine on their own as they get older.

[{b}]

DD is and always has been a crappy sleeper. remember the PG books saying to drinkjuice and lie down on your left side if you wre worried because you hadn't felt baby move in X number of hours? That was never a concern with DD. She probably moved/kicked/did jumping jacks every 20 minutes in utero, 24/7.

Around 7-8 months, she naturally fell into her own nap times, around 11 and 4. She woke every 3 hours to nurse until about 12 months, then I was able to drop one of those s she went a longer stretch. Around 15 months, she started transitioning to one nap a day, and at 17.5 months, she STTN all on her own one night. We had done nothing differently. She is still nursed/held (DH has her for bedtime while I'm at work) to go to sleep. She sleeps in her crib from 9:30ish p.m. to 8 a.m. (Late bedtime because I work FT, second shift, and we have to keep her up later so I have a shot at 6 hours' sleep).

It's been hard on us, but NOTHING about this kid has ever been easy.

I think she'd be the kid CIO failed for, too. Even if I wasn't deadset against CIO, I really think DD would be the one crying until she puked, screaming for 8 hours and never sleeping, and losing trust the whole time, making her days equally miserable. I can't do that to her or to us.

We just kept doing what felt right and let her work into her own sleep patterns. Right now (almost 19 mo), she's getting 10+ hours at night and 2+ hours a day for her nap/

[Annette]

Is there a way to train a baby to become a heavy sleeper and fall asleep quickly? I love that I'm able to fall asleep in 5 minutes and sleep like the dead. Just wanted to know how to pass that on.

[Marisa]

Is there a way to train a baby to become a heavy sleeper and fall asleep quickly? I love that I'm able to fall asleep in 5 minutes and sleep like the dead. Just wanted to know how to pass that on.

This is not something you can "train" anyone to do, it's something they'll grow into. Until a baby is much older, anyway -- like past six months -- sleeping too heavily is a SIDS risk.

In addition, most babies still need to eat overnight until they're 6 months or more -- their stomachs aren't large enough to hold enough food to get them through the night without waking at least once to eat, not until they're a little bigger. My DS relied on nursing at night until he was at least a year, and since we coslept and didn't "sleep train" at all it wasn't a problem.

Now he's four and he does "sleep like the dead" -- he no longer naps, but goes to bed easily around 7:30 and wakes at 7 the next morning. He's done so for well over a year now.

The best advice I can give you is to watch your baby, follow her cues, and don't let her get too overtired. Tiny babies need frequent naps, followed by frequent meals. :) Older babies tend to reorganize their naps every few months, dropping from three to two to one, to none, as they become developmentally able to stay asleep for longer stretches, and less developmentally reliant on those hours and hours of sleep every day.

[Kanga]

Is there a way to train a baby to become a heavy sleeper and fall asleep quickly? I love that I'm able to fall asleep in 5 minutes and sleep like the dead. Just wanted to know how to pass that on.

Have a baby and become severely sleep deprived themselves:) My sister and dh have always been like that. They can sleep anywhere, fall asleep in seconds, rarely wake in the middle of the night without being able to fall back asleep quickly, etc. Me OTOH, who was also left to CIO just like my sister and similarly to dh - it always took me 30 minutes or so to fall asleep, it was uncommon to wake and not be able to fall asleep, I had a hard time sleeping on vacation or pretty much anywhere besides my bed, including the guest bedroom at my parents that used to be my childhood room. Then dd1 came and I became so sleep deprived that I was finally able to nap during the day when she was about 2 months old. It wasn't until she was I think 4 months old that I finally fell asleep quickly at night. I was always trying to rush myself to sleep to get the maximum amount of sleep in until dd1 inevitably woke again. Once I stopped doing that, I was finally able to fall asleep in under 15-20 minutes.

I never sleep trained either of my kids as infants and I have one good sleeper, and one that used to be not so good. Dd1 is my not so good sleeper, she nightweaned on her own at 5 months, but it was all downhill from there. At around 9-10 months old, she started waking only once instead of 2-3x, but instead of going right back to sleep she'd be up for 2 or so hours. That went on for about 6 weeks and then one night she just didn't wake up at all. She did that for about a week, and then started waking again and not going back to sleep. After finally having sleep again for a week, there was no way I could go back to staying up for several hours every night again. So either dh or I would go to her when she woke up, but not pick her up out of the crib. The first night took 30-40 minutes of off and on crying and got progressively better until it only took patting her on the back for 30 seconds to a minute to go back to sleep. She STTN on a regular basis starting at 16 months old (one week before dd2 was born). She had always been an excellent napper and settled into her own nap schedules with no help from us. At around 2 yo she started falling asleep on her own without us in the room, but that was short lived as we soon had to move her to a BGB and she hasn't done it since. She's always been an early riser, waking as a baby between 4:30 and 5. Once as early at 3:45am. She now goes to bed at 9ish and STTN until 7ish in her own bed at 2.5, though still likes us to lay with her until she falls asleep.

Dd2 has been a fairly good sleeper from birth. She doesn't have any problem sleeping wherever her head is laid. At around 3 months she was down to one nursing session during the night. Around 5 months she was back to 3x a night. I moved her into her sister's room thinking it was us that was waking her up, but that was a disaster and we quickly moved her back into our room. At 10 months dh had vacation time so we night weaned. She had no problem dropping the 11pm and 2am nursing sessions but wouldn't drop the 5am nursing for the life of her so we took it as a sign that she just wasn't ready. She's now 13 months old and still wakes one time somewhere between 3 and 5 and is up for the day between 6 and 7. We will probably make the switch to a toddler bed in our room at around 18 months and fully nightwean then if she hasn't quit on her own. Then to a BGB in her own room or her sister's room if we haven't moved by then.

[littlecindy]

I am convinced that alot of it is their personality.

me, too, and my DS is 8 months (he wakes 3-4 times/night). it's just him. seems like i hear 15 months to 2 years is pretty normal for them to start sleeping better on their own. i think it helps that he does have a good long nap schedule at daycare.

[littlecindy]

just thought i'd post a couple resources i found yesterday here:

http://www.askdrsears.com/HTML/7/T070200.ASP

http://www.drjaygordon.com/development/ap/sleep.asp

http://www.askdrsears.com/html/5/t050400.asp

[Annette]

Thanks for the responses. My mom thinks she made me a heavy sleeper by not purposely being quiet in the house while I slept. My parents would talk in their normal voices and watch tv, do chores like vacuuming while I slept. I also lived in a big city, so between the trains, sirens and car alarms, I guess I got used to the noise.

[TracyDP]

Thanks for the responses. My mom thinks she made me a heavy sleeper by not purposely being quiet in the house while I slept. My parents would talk in their normal voices and watch tv, do chores like vacuuming while I slept. I also lived in a big city, so between the trains, sirens and car alarms, I guess I got used to the noise.

We are doing this with our DD. I was a light sleeper, and still have some trouble getting to sleep at night. Partially because as a young child we lived with my grandma and my room was way in the back of the house so it was always quiet for naps/bedtime. Then as a teenager I was with a single Mom and she always went to bed before me so again, it was quiet. I do laundry, dishes, have the TV or music on and only try to be somewhat quiet when right next to her room. We have some noisy neighbors that have 2 toddlers who play, yell, etc. as well as 2 yippy dogs in their back yard that is right by DD's bedroom window. She seems to be able to nap through it all so thats good. :) She started out in our room and DH snores like crazy and it never phased her at all. I have to wear earplugs to be able to sleep. Dh just wakes me up if Ellie wakes up and a diaper change won't get her back to sleep.

[polarama]

I wanted to bump this back up to see if anyone else had any experiences to add.

DD is 15 months. She was actually a much better sleeper when she was younger--she was STTN at 8 weeks.

But it's kind of all gone downhill and now I'm not sure what to do. Instinct tells me to keep doing what we are doing, and I know CIO doesn't work for us (DD gets more worked up), but I just need to be reassured that there is a light at the end of the tunnel!

Right now after her bedtime routine (bath, books, PJ, bottle), we put DD in her crib. One of us has to stay in the room with her until she falls asleep--anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour. On a "good" night, we can sit in the chair by the door. On a "bad" night, we have to have our hand in her crib--not necessarily touching her, just in her crib.

She wakes up at least 1/night and one of us goes in to check on her. She will usually go back to sleep once we are in there, sometimes she needs the hand in her crib again. Usually once the bedtime parent goes in, he/she can't come out--DD will pop up as soon as we head for the door, so whoever is bedtime parent just sleeps in her room.

This situation is fine on weekends--it just sucks on weekdays b/c DH and I get up earlier than DD (DD sleeps from 9:30-9:30).

She is an excellent napper though, so I guess I should take my breaks where I get 'em.

[steviem]

We didn't do any sleep training with our kids (unless you count the 1 night we attempted the CIO method and aborted mission after 10 mins of crying!)

DS is 28 months. I nursed and rocked him to sleep until he was 12 months. After he turned one, we would lay him down in our bed with either DH or I, and he would fall asleep. We'd carry him to his crib but inevitably, he'd wake up so he ended up back in our bed :rolleyes: It wasn't until he was about to turn two that we moved him to a big boy bed in his room and and we put him to bed awake. Some nights, he falls asleep on his own, other nights, we have to lay in there with him until he falls asleep. He still wakes up at least 1-2 times per night and ends up in our bed at least 4 nights per week.

Naps, on the otherhand, were ALWAYS a piece of cake with him. From very early on (4 months I think), he'd start winding down when nap time approached and he'd fall asleep on his own.

My DD is only 3 months old but this girl is a champion sleeper!!! At 3 wks of age, she began sleeping through the night (7:30pm-5:30am). Some nights, she falls asleep while I'm nursing her and I put her down, and other nights, she stays awake while I nurse her and I put her down afterwards and she falls asleep on her own. She doesn't have a defined nap schedule yet- it's still all over the place.

[Julss05]

At 6 weeks DS started forming his own sleep routine. At 8 p.m. I'd feed/change him and by 9 p.m. he was asleep for the night. He gets up at 3 or 4 a.m. to eat and then right back down until I wake him to go to the babysitters. I thought it was just a fluke but at 9 weeks it's still the same although last night he slept from 8:30 p.m. to 5 a.m! So I dare say that he might be STTN?

Early on I tried the CIO method but after over 30 minutes of crying there was no signs of stopping. This little guy is as stubborn as his parents! My mom's doctor told her with my sister to let her cry for up to 20 mins. and then if she was still crying pick her up, this worked for her as she actually stopped crying after 15 mins. of being put down but not for our son.

So I decided to ditch that idea and let him choose his own sleep routine and he ended up self soothing himself to sleep by talking to himself and stroking his hair. I think not forcing a sleep pattern on him has helped. We can actually put him down in his crib awake close to the time he'd normally go to bed for the night and he'll fall asleep on his own without crying. As he gets older and starts teething who knows but it works for now!:)

[Sarah]

This is not something you can "train" anyone to do, it's something they'll grow into. Until a baby is much older, anyway -- like past six months -- sleeping too heavily is a SIDS risk.

I disagree (respectfully, Marisa!) Both my daughters (and my foster son) were not good sleepers at all, personality-wise, until they were STed. After being STed they all sleep wonderfully, at least 10-12 hours (depending on age). I have found it to be wonderful for my marriage and my sanity that since my kids were little I have been able to lay them down, kiss them goodnight, and not hear from them until morning. And I think they are happier and healthier for it.

FWIW (and anecdotes don't mean much) I was never STed and to this day I have trouble falling asleep. I need someone to talk to me or rub my back (which is what my mom did) and I sleep poorly. This doesn't mean anything, necessarily, of course, but it does make me wish I was let cry!

Anyway, if cosleeping or not STing works for your family I am all for it. Whatever makes everybody happy in your family is the right solution, I think. I could never function on such interrupted sleep, but I applaud those of you who can!