Shared Driveway-Issues W/ Neighbor WWYD?

[petdoc08]

I need some advice regarding my neighbors. They are a nice older couple that are new empty nesters. To preface this story I really like the wife, but could live without the husband. My DH and I are younger than their kids so neighbor has decided he is going to 'parent' us. He always is trying to tell us what or how to do things. Irritating, but he has good intentions.

We share a common drive which forms a large concrete pad behind both houses. The drive and pad are shaped like a T and our houses are on either side of the right angle formed by top and 'stalk' of the T Most of the concrete pad is our property. The drive is at a pretty steep angle between both houses and then the pad is flat behind thier house and slopes down behind our house at another steep angle. The husband has always just pulled straight up and parked on the property line- sometimes more on our side. He uses his part of the pad for storage. Issues started this fall when Neighbors (N) told us they hired a company to plow the drive but it would cost us $15 every snowfall. N also mentioned that we couldn't park at the far end of our part of the pad because the snow needed to be pushed there, or it couldn't be plowed at all. She said she would ask her husband to pull further over so we could park at the top of our pad. DH and I were a bit miffed because we had shoveled the ENTIRE drive (their side as well) for the two previous winters free of charge. (male neighbor is too big to shovel, wife too frail) Now it's either pay someone to do it, or continue to shovel it all (for free). I am not working so $15 can be a big deal to us. We decided it wasn't worth arguing, just cut back something so we don't have to shovel. Plus, we could start parking at the top of the pad, usually it is too close to N's car to be able to park up there.

The plow guy has come twice and both times poorly plows our side of the pad. He plows in our cars and does not do the area in front of the garage. I was stalling giving the $ to N because I wanted to mention that we are not satisfyed with the job. We are still stuck shoveling a lot of our section of the drive and the end of the drive when city plows come by and plow us in. We don't think its fair we are paying the same amount N's are, but are still shoveling the entrance to the drive and 50% or so of our part of the pad.

N came over asking for the $$, so we starting chit chatting. Before I could bring up the plow issue she mentioned that her oldest son, his wife, and their baby are moving in until their house is finished being built. She said it would be a minimum of 6 months. I looked at her with shock- they only have a 2 b/r house and fitting 3 more people in it woud seem impossible to me. She said- "I know how will we fit 2 more cars behind our houses" I said "Wow, it will be crowded behind your house" Her response- "Well my son volunteered to park at the bottom of your pad because he has 4 wheel drive and can make it up the hill." I was just shocked- not only was she coming over to collect the money for the plowing which we had no choice but to agree to, but now she is telling us her son will be parking on our property for the next 6 months. Then she said that her son's wife would need to park at the top because of their baby, indicated DH and I have to move our cars further down our pad. Um- I have a baby the same exact age.

I don't know how to confront them about the parking situation without causing a big riff in our relationship. We get along with them really well, but we do pay a large mortage and want to be able to use what WE pay for. I don't think it is fair they assume they can park behind our house-or even on the property line just because we share a drive. Any ideas? I feel like they are taking advantage of us.

[jennylou]

Shared drives are tough. That said, since they think that they can just sort of tell you where you are going to park, you need to find out the laws of your shared drive - this might vary by town. Once you are armed with that knowledge, you need to send them a letter telling them that you are not going to pay for plow service. You will shovel your side and they need to do the same or hire someone to do so for them. In addition, I would clearly outline that they are not to park on your side of the pad.

[petdoc08]

Jennylou If they were not such nice people, I would have no issues doing this. I just feel like it would ruin all other aspects of our "friendly" relationship. We petsit for each other often, she brings us cookies, we get their mail if they are out of town etc.

If we just shoveled our half of the drive, we wouldn't be able to get up and down it. We would still have to wait for the plow guy to come out and do their half. It couldn't even be plowed unless we agreed to it because the snow has to be pushed onto our property due to a retaining wall on their side.

I am working on uploading pics that would do a much better job illustrating the mess that is our drive than I am.

[lml41981]

I don't know that there is a lot of room for dancing around the bush on this. It sounds like they're taking advantage of you. I'd suggest just going over and saying, "DH and I were talking about the driveway situation. We're not quite sure we understand the logistics of how the new parking situation will work. We don't want to have to park further away from our door because we also have a baby to consider. If it is all the same to you, we would really just prefer that you guys work it out so that we are not inconvenienced. However you do it is fine, but we need to be able to get in and out of the driveway easily and we want to park our cars in these locations on our side of the pad. Also, about the plow...is it possible to just cancel this guy? He's plowed us in and caused us to have to shovel the last two snowfalls and I just think it is silly to pay when we have to shovel the drive anyway. We used to shovel the whole thing for free. We'd be happy to go back to that arrangement...or if you felt bad about us shoveling it, you could pay us what you were paying the plow guy."

[petdoc08]

LML I like your wording... I couldn't think of something that was to the point- but still pleasant.

here are pics..
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m139/petdoc/IMG_0920.jpg from the street
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m139/petdoc/IMG_0919.jpg
from the bottom of our pad
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m139/petdoc/IMG_0918.jpg
from between the houses

The property line is half way between the black car and the van. The van is usually on the property line. She wants us to park down by the gazebo. Her daughter in law would park on the property line and her son would park where I was standing to take the middle picture. There is no way they can even think about fitting 4 large cars behind their house. Our garages are useless- they are built under our houses and the angle is too tight to get a modern sized vehicle in the garage.

[lml41981]

I can't even envision how that will work. It seems like you will be parked in and unable to leave until they go. :confused:

Also, I have a problem with her wording..."Our son volunteered to park at the bottom of your pad..." as if it were *your* problem and you were trying to figure out a solution. :rolleyes:

btw...I love your house. It reminds me of my grandmother's old home.

[petdoc08]

LML When someone parks on the property line it becomes very tricky to get out- but it is do-able. I'm sure they don't realize just how difficult it is because they can just back straight out. Maybe if their son does park on our side- he will realize what a PITA it is to get around his parents cars when they park on the line.

The entire conversation made me feel like it was all of our problem- not just their problem. It sure does feel like 'our' problem. :rolleyes: Oh- and thanks for the complement on our house. We love it too. We overlooked the shared driveway issue when buying because the house and yard are so gorgeous.

[jennylou]

Both house are beautiful!

I would not park by the gazebo.

If they can't fit four cars on their pad, they need to park in the street. You shoudl not have to bend over backwards for them. I think you should suggest that they clean out their pad and let their kids park there.

I think LMLs way of going about the plow guy is a good one.

It really sounds like they are bullying you....

[suzubeane]

Question: If you have more Pad to park car on behind your house, why don't you just switch during the time that their son and DIL are there?

Let them juggle their four cars around in a larger space behind your house, and you two can park your cars in the smaller space behind their home. You might not be close to your own door, but at least you won't have to worry that someone else is blocking you or in the way somehow. If they block themselves in, that's their problem.

[Sophia]

I agree with LML. It sounds like they're taking advantage of you. It's not your problem, it's theirs. My baby is 2 months younger than yours, and I would hate to have to walk any further than necessary to get to/from my house, especially in that kind of weather.

[petdoc08]

Jennylou I appreciate the complement on our homes :) I wish street parking was an option. It would completely solve our problem, but the closest spots are 4 blocks away. I may ask that the son park there. He drives a Suburban-obnoxiously huge. Since he is asking a huge favor of his parents to move his whole family in, he can be the one who is inconvenienced with the parking situation.

Suzubeane If they park behind our house they would block the view of our backyard. DH and I drive small cars- they all have either a van or SUV. I really don't want to look out at a car lot for 6 months. I know that sounds whiney-but we shouldn't have to stare at a car lot. Ya know?

Sophia I really hope they don't mean to take advantage of us- I think they just don't realize how presumptuous what they are asking really is. Trust me- walking to the car where it is parked now is tricky enough carrying DD and all of her accessories. I got steamed enough to post this when I almost wiped out on some ice today carrying her.

[suzubeane]

Suzubeane If they park behind our house they would block the view of our backyard. DH and I drive small cars- they all have either a van or SUV. I really don't want to look out at a car lot for 6 months. I know that sounds whiney-but we shouldn't have to stare at a car lot. Ya know?There is going to be a car lot out back for six months - even if you don't see it from your window, you'll be negotiating around those other cars once you step outside and try to leave. I guess I was thinking about this issue more spatially than any other way. I can't stand having my car hemmed in by others, and that's the problem my suggestion was meant to address.

I wonder if you'd get more responses in ES?

[petdoc08]

suzubeaneI had thought about posting in ES- but decided on this forum only because it deals directly with the driveway. I am more than open to having it moved.

I guess because I am a homebody having to look at their cars out my window would irk me more than having to pull around them. The husband has always parked in a spot that is less than considerate of our needs. I have just cursed under my breath at his car for the last couple of years. Now if they actually blocked us in to the point I couldn't get out of the drive, I would be livid!

We are going to discuss the parking situation with them in the A.M. Hubby is going to talk directly to the plow guy the next time it snows and tell him he needs to do a better job on our part of the drive or he needs to figure out how to just plow their side. DH doesn't want to offer to shovel the whole thing again.

[Sophia]

If they stop using their pad for storage would they be able to fit all their vehicles? Really, I think that's what they should be planning for. I'm still shocked they're making this your problem.

[Ericka_Jarett]

My grandmother had a similar issue with her neighbor. They had an easement though. She went to the lawyer about this situation since it was an issue. The neighbor was actually in the wrong, my grandmother at least had the proof, but let the neighbor park in the driveway to keep peace, as long as she could park in front of her house.

You and hubby have to set your foot down and talk to your neighbors. It's your home and your property that you pay a mortgage and taxes on, they can't tell you how to use it. They sound nice otherwise but they shouldn't feel they have the right to be demanding. What if you never talked to these people, they wouldn't be able to assume anything, they would have to deal with their new situation. The son and daughter-in-law should come and clean the pad off at the parents home to make space for their vehicles. If there is not enough space, they have to find other means of parking their vehicles. Having one of their vehicles is one thing on your property but they are asking for 2 and the father parks on your property in a way as well. If they want to use your property for parking, they should pay rent on it for the 6 months they will be using it.

Old neighbors of ours across the street from my brother's shared a driveway like you do. They each had a pad behind their homes, but they each were able to park on their own side behind their homes.

Good luck with this situation.

[petdoc08]

Sophia Eh... they could fit 3-4 normal sized cars if they would clean it up but not two minivans, a suburban and a explorer. The husband runs an antique business and he often has pieces of furniture that need to be cleaned up before taking them to his shop sitting out there. Their house looks deceptively large from the outside. It is quite tiny on the inside, so he couldn't move stuff inside. I have no idea how they are going to fit 3 more people and a dog in the house.

The wife is such a nice lady, I do feel bad to create more issues for her. But than again this really isn't my issue to begin with, its hers. When chatting with the wife she said that she told them that she would need help with cooking and dishes, she couldn't do it all. The son's answer "We can use paper plates". I really don't think that was what she was getting at. The wife is so naive I don't think she would realize why the parking would be an issue to us. The husband and son are just inconsiderate.

[petdoc08]

Erika_Jarett The previous owners had huge issues with my neighbors. It got to the point where they (previous owners) put a snow fence down the property line to prevent leaves blowing onto their side of the yard after they would rake. DH and I are much more patient, but also don't want taken advantage of. We know they parked on their side before we bought the house. The previous owners would have probably had the car towed if it was on the wrong side. Just because we get along, doesn't mean you can take advantage of us. I don't want this situation to escalate into something more, to the point of spray painting down the property line. :p We thought about the rent thing- at least enough to cover the taxes and mortgage on the land we can't use because they are parked on it. It solves the parking problem and we feel compensated for the loss of use of our property.

I can handle the husband parking on the line, I let my dog poop in the bottom of their yard as my passive aggressive revenge.

[Ericka_Jarett]

It's really only fair, they should pay, that way you are letting them know you are not going to be taken advantage of. As for the snowplowing, I would have to talk to the person doing it. It's defeating the purpose of plowing the driveway, when you just have to go and shovel yourselves and the end of the driveway out.

Sounds like one of the previous owners of my brother's house. The guy didn't like the neighbor's husband, so put a fence up along the side by side driveway, the next owners took the fence down. We never had issues with the neighbor, since we don't share a driveway and she even was going to let her bckyard fence (from pool days) be taken down for a shed to go into my brother's yard.

[bethnjim]

We have a shared driveway situation on a cul-de-sac which makes the situation unbearable for the most part. I completely understand how you feel about saying anything. We have basically fought with every person on our cul-de-sac for parking in FRONT of our driveway. It is a UGLY situation and we can't wait to move out of our home at this point because of it. I will come home at 10pm at night and someone will be parked in front of our shared driveway where my husband's car is blocked in the driveway and I can't get in. It is HORRIBLE. We also have a larger pad on the bottom than our neighbors that actually share the driveway, so they park on the street now because of the angle of the garage. I feel for you, but from my experience, THINGS GOT UGLY when we confronted the neighbors!!

[lml41981]

It is a UGLY situation and we can't wait to move out of our home at this point because of it. I will come home at 10pm at night and someone will be parked in front of our shared driveway where my husband's car is blocked in the driveway and I can't get in.
This is when I would call the police and ask them to ticket or tow the car that is blocking your driveway. Does your city have ordinances about street parking, parking in front of someone else's home or shared driveways?

[Katie1]

Since their son will be there now, why doesn't he help your husband shovel the driveway and you can cancel the plow altogether?

[petdoc08]

Since their son will be there now, why doesn't he help your husband shovel the driveway and you can cancel the plow altogether?

I am thinking that the son would rather just pay the $. He isn't the nicest of persons.


When we got home today the son was parked down at the end of our pad. GRRR We were out and about all day today so we didn't get a chance to say anything to our neighbors. The son was leaving as we were coming in. It took him quite a bit of time to get his car turned around and down the drive. Hopefully, he won't want to do that for 6 months and decides not to park down there.

bethnjim That is exactly! why we are hesitant to say anything. I have a feeling the relationship with the previous homeowners went sour because they confronted our neighbors about the parking situation. I don't want it to become a "you can never cross the property line ever" type of situation, but I think assuming you can park in my driveway for 6 months is being very bold.

[lml41981]

bethnjim That is exactly! why we are hesitant to say anything. I have a feeling the relationship with the previous homeowners went sour because they confronted our neighbors about the parking situation.
The neighbors are counting on you to want to maintain the peace so they can keep walking all over you. Give 'em hell. It doesn't matter that you have more concrete and parking area because the property line is where it is.

I am thinking the rent idea might not be a bad one.

[bethnjim]

This is when I would call the police and ask them to ticket or tow the car that is blocking your driveway. Does your city have ordinances about street parking, parking in front of someone else's home or shared driveways?

We've called the cops NUMEROUS times and no one shows up. We found out that our "neighbor" is on the force! :rolleyes: As I said, we are in a no win situation, which sucks because we LOVE LOVE LOVE our house.

Oh and I forgot to mention the worse night...a neighbor two houses down had a party and he DOUBLE PARKED people in front of our driveway and when I went over to ask him to move he said, "you can wait until after the party...just park on the street". I said, "where!!!!!!!" He finally had people move when I picked up my cell and started dialing. I was actually calling my husband, but he thought I was calling the cops I guess.

I agree with the idea that you can't let people run all over you and you need to confront, etc, but I just know what I had the same attitude and at times I wish I would have bitten my lip and smiled through it. When we go outside we get the "cold shoulder" from LOTS of people!! Sucks being at the top of the cul-de-sac and having MORON neighbors who park in front of it!

[Sophia]

The neighbors are counting on you to want to maintain the peace so they can keep walking all over you. Give 'em hell. It doesn't matter that you have more concrete and parking area because the property line is where it is.

Seriously, if they're upset that their pad is smaller, they should call a contractor to enlarge their own pad. On their side of the property line.

[lml41981]

We've called the cops NUMEROUS times and no one shows up. We found out that our "neighbor" is on the force! :rolleyes:
Then you need to complain to the chief. That is an abuse of power and it needs to be stopped. If the chief isn't willing to do something based solely on your complaint, offer the suggestion that the media might be more interested.

[Cali_Katy]

bethnjim That is exactly! why we are hesitant to say anything. I have a feeling the relationship with the previous homeowners went sour because they confronted our neighbors about the parking situation. I don't want it to become a "you can never cross the property line ever" type of situation, but I think assuming you can park in my driveway for 6 months is being very bold.

I think you're probably right there. I don't know; it sounds like you have a decent neighborly relationship with them. I agree that what they want to do is out of line and I don't think you should have to let them walk all over you. But I think I would try to approach them about the situation in a direct yet friendly manner rather than come out with all guns blazing -- "you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar" and all that. If they're truly unreasonable, then maybe it will come to that, but it sounds like there would be benefits to trying to keep the peace.

[suzubeane]

they could fit 3-4 normal sized cars if they would clean it up but not two minivans, a suburban and a explorer. So in other words, your cars would fit nicely behind their house, and their cars would fit nicely behind yours. I know you don't want to see a parking lot behind your house for six months, but do you want to have a contentious relationship with your neighbors forever? How long do you plan to live in this house?

Regardless, as far as I can tell, they have no reason to believe this is an issue for you because - for whatever reason - it hasn't been presented that way. Why not let them know that you'd like the six adults to sit down and discuss this, and then lay out your concerns: you want the convenience of parking near your home, getting your baby in and out easily, and not having to see a parking lot behind your house. You'd like to accommodate them, what do they suggest?

You can get your righteous indignation up as PPs are suggesting, but your neighbors are already inconveniencing you and you haven't said boo yet. What do you expect their behavior will be once you've been confrontational or the least bit hostile? I'd approach them sweetly under the premise that you'd like to help them out. I'm sure you can get the message across that you are being accommodating because it's your property, and therefore you are in a position to help.

eta: I share a driveway with elderly neighbors whose kids have big vehicles, so I have some experience in this area.

[petdoc08]

You can get your righteous indignation up as PPs are suggesting, but your neighbors are already inconveniencing you and you haven't said boo yet. What do you expect their behavior will be once you've been confrontational or the least bit hostile?
We have yet to say 'boo' because nothing has inconvenienced us enough to be worth the inevitable ramifications of saying something. At least until this situation reared its head. Telling the neighbor to quit parking on the line was not worth dealing with glares every time we walked out our door. Shoveling the entire drive was a necessary evil. If we didn't do it, no one would and we would be stuck in the drive. Paying for a mediocre plowing, still having to shovel, being told where to park ,and staring at a car lot instead of my tulip beds is enough to force us to weight the benefits of saying something and risking years of tension or keeping our mouths shut and remain neighborly doormats.

I guess if they were actually elderly, I would be much more willing to be accommodating. However, they are in their mid 50's and the kids are in their mid 30's. The husband is just overweight to the point of complete disability and the wife is overworked from years of picking up his slack. My husband and I are a good 8-10 years younger than the kid moving back in. The wife has told us in the past their kids wanted to buy our house when it was on the market but couldn't afford it. I am sure the kid was less than thrilled when he found out we are significantly younger than he is. I think they feel they have more rights to the entire drive because they have lived here for 30 years and have seen many neighbors come and go.

We did take suzubeane's approach and maintained the illusion we wanted to be accommodating when speaking to the wife yesterday. Bypassing the husband is the best way to keep the peace. DH offered to help the husband and son clean up the pad to make room for the extra cars. We are sick of looking at his 'antiques' (aka old clutter) anyway. She said that once the move in date gets closer, she will let us know if they need help. We also told her that DH will start parking on the opposite side on my car to provide more space to fit all the cars as close to behind THEIR house as possible. DH decided it was worth this concession to maintain a pleasant relationship. We told them that parking at the end of our pad was not an option as we don't want to have to worry about someone sliding off into the huge ditch down there and in the summer we use the pad for our easyset pool. They seemed ok with that. The wife mentioned that they forgot we had the pool. We also told her that if we had out of town guests, we would need all of our spots available. She seemed ok with everything. Hopefully she accurately relays it to the husband and son.

We also informed them that we were not thrilled with the job the plow guy is doing. We are are going to speak with him and if we see no improvement we would like to price out other companies. We want him to actually plow behind our cars and wait until the city plows our street (we are a hospital route so one of the first to be plowed). This way we can avoid shoveling. She said that she would speak to him as well because he is their landscaping service in the summer. She loves the way he cuts grass and would prefer to keep using his services. Fair enough-if there is an improvement.

We are hoping that the kids' house take a while to sell. I checked it out yesterday on Realtor.com and it is WAY! overpriced for the size and neighborhood. At least that will buy us some time until they move it.

[lml41981]

Just wondering how things worked out for you with the parking situation.