Master Food Safety Thread (aka "Is it still good?")

[Katy]

A while back, on a whim, I picked up a package of hot links. I haven't yet opened them, and the packaging says use or freeze by 7/6. Needless to say, I haven't froze them either.

The package is completely sealed. Do I need to toss them? Tomorrow is garbage day.

TIA

[boilermaker]

Personally, I would toss them. But i'm pretty wary of expiration dates...I won't even attempt to smell the milk if it goes past the date on the carton.

[Hello Kitty]

I would toss, too. And this is coming from someone who is big on stretching the dates on things. ;) Yeah, no one's coming over to my house now, are they?

Dairy products usually last for a week or so after their printed expry (which is usually listed as a 'sell by') date.

[OceanNMountains]

Costco doesn't carry the jugs of OJ that we like anymore, so last month we ended up buying four- 2 quart cartons. We have three cartons left and the expiration or sell by date is July 28. I had a small glass this morning and it tasted okay. Anyone know about how long it will still be good? Thank you! :)

[OceanNMountains]

Bumping. Does anyone know? It still smells okay.

[KitKat]

Expiration is different than the "Sell By" date. If it's the Exp date, I think it might be too old -- it really depends on your tolerance! If it doesn't smell fermented, then maybe they are on the conservative side, and it might be ok. With a SB date, you have maybe 3-7 days or so. However, if it's not pasteurized, I would not chance it, I would throw it out after expiration and 2 days after the SB date!!

[BTB]

I've never seen unpasteurized oj - would be surprised if it can be legally sold in the U.S. I'd go with the whiff test, if it passes it, a slight taste, and if that's all good, drink away my friend. :)

[bookworm]

If it tastes like a screwdriver, it has gone bad. Otherwise, I think you're fine :).

[KitKat]

I've never seen unpasteurized oj - would be surprised if it can be legally sold in the U.S.

Wow, that amazes me that you've never seen it! Maybe it's regional - you can find most every type of juice unpasteurized in SF, I prefer it!

Fresh squeezed = squeezed from a fresh orange = non pasteurized
(At least the *real* fresh squeezed variety!)

As in Jamba Juice or what they sell at Trader Joe's or gourmet groceries.

[girlygirl]

I put some frozen chicken breasts in the refrigerator to thaw on Monday night. They were still frozen Tuesday night, and we've been too busy to cook since then. So I'm wondering if it's safe to cook and eat them this evening. Anyone know?

[BTB]

Wow, that amazes me that you've never seen it! Maybe it's regional - you can find most every type of juice unpasteurized in SF, I prefer it!

Consider me surprised. :)

I've never been to Jamba Juice, Trader Joe's, or any gourmet grocery. I've never lived more than 100 miles from where I grew up - in the Midwest. What is this "San Francisco" you live in? :D

[lovebugs2003]

Personally i would not, seeing as it has been four days. When it comes to chicken i just don't chance anything.

[bookworm]

As long as they have been sealed, smell ok, and aren't slimy beyond regular chicken slimy, I'd use them.

[southhavenjen]

How you've handled your chicken is not ideal...but I think if you cooked the chicken thoroughly and ate it tonight, you'd be ok. I work in a professional kitchen, and I'd feel safe eating those buggers tonight if I knew they were cooked thoroughly!

ETA: think of all the raw chicken in the grocery store. You can bet your bottom dollar it's been sitting there for more than 3 days.

[irish74]

As long as it smells like orange and not like weird wine, it should be just fine.

KitKat - I see the unpasturized stuff all the time too, but I thought the stuff at TJ's was pasturized. I'll have to look next time. I like the apple juice from the farmer's market's, so very sweet!

[lawyerlee]

I usually just smell it, too. :)

[OceanNMountains]

Thank you all for your responses! :) It doesn't say sell by or expiration next to the date it says 48FL2023 and it is pasteurized.

My BIL came over this weekend and went into the fridge without asking and poured himself a glass of OJ. We didn't notice what he was drinking until he was almost done. He said it tasted fine, so I have been drinking it.

[KitKat]

Consider me surprised. :)

I've never been to Jamba Juice, Trader Joe's, or any gourmet grocery. I've never lived more than 100 miles from where I grew up - in the Midwest. What is this "San Francisco" you live in? :D

Hee hee! Some people would consider SF a whole other world, it kind of is!

What I think should be “illegal” in the United States would be all things Nabisco, Heinz, Campbell’s, Kraft, Oscar Mayer, Velveeta, Frito, etc! And white bread & American cheese too! :eek:

SFAugust - Good old TJ's, they offer both versions. Kind of like the choice b/c organic & non. They have a nice selection but vary by location. I just prefer the "raw" versions! :)

[KitKat]

Oh, and Ocean, glad nobody got sick & your OJ didn't go to waste! :o

[dal]

I have some ground beef and chicken frozen in my freezer but how long can I keep it there before I should use it?

Thanks!

[KrissyCat7]

Good question....this is what I found online

Use frozen poultry sections within nine months and whole poultry within one year.

Use frozen ground meat within four months and whole cuts within 12 months.

[looch]

Is it vac sealed, or in the wrap from the supermarket?

[TX Sweetheart]

Eep... with the info Krissy provided, I think I need to clean out my freezer and start over!

[Jad]

I've been a mostly vegetarian for years, so I've never really cooked with meat. But because I'm now working to follow a twinmama diet, I'm trying to add some meat into my diet. But I know next to nothing about food safety for meat. Basically all I know is that I'm not supposed to use the same utensils for raw and cooked stuff. So I'm a little intimidated. Mind if I ask a few questions?

I opened a package of chicken sausage Wednesday morning. (The package says they're fully cooked.) I have been preparing them one at a time. Is that ok? Or should I have done them all at once? Am I risking them going bad? Would it be different if they were raw?

How long *can* you keep raw meat? Bacon?

How long do you keep leftovers?

Do you have a separate cutting board for meat?

Anything else I should be aware of?

[kristin9903]

Chicken sausage

That sounds fine. Just keep an eye on the expiration date on the package. It would be different if they were raw. More on that below.

How long can you keep raw meat?

If you aren't going to use it within a couple of days, freeze it just to be on the safe side. Fresh meat doesn't have a long shelf life and will start to smell (a sign of spoilage) within a couple of days of taking it home from the store. If you're making bacon just a little at a time, I would recommend either using a fully cooked turkey bacon (looks like deli meat, almost) or buying the fully cooked regular bacon. Just make sure to reheat it to a proper temperature

Do you have a separate cutting board for meat?

Absolutely! Also, make sure the one you use for meat is a high quality plastic one. Wooden cutting boards are porous, giving bacteria a wonderful place to hide and grow. Wash it thoroughly after each use (I use the dishwasher) and every so often give it a good disinfection with a dilute bleach solution. Be careful not to put cooked meats on the same cutting board or surface that you used for the raw meat.

Anything else?

I would recommend that you get yourself a nice digital meat thermometer. I bought mine at Williams Sonoma for about $16.00. It has the proper cooking temperatures for different types and cuts of meat programmed into it and will tell you when your meat is at a safe temperature. It takes a lot of guess work out of preparing meat safely.

Here's some general guidelines:

Meat and poultry: Cook to an internal temp of at least 160F
Reheating leftovers: Cook to an internal temp of at least 140F
Cold items should be held at no higher than 40F.

Good luck and congrats on your twins!

[AusMarchBride]

Hi Jad :D

When you are storing raw meat in the fridge, make sure it is not going to drip any juices onto anything below (especially fruits or vegetables, or anything cooked).

I usually bring meat home from the butchers/supermarket and then transfer it into a sealed container (eg Tupperware) so it cannot leak. I then usually put most of the containers into the freezer and only leave in the fridge what we will eat that night or the next.

I always always always thaw meat in the fridge, never on the bench/in the sink etc but that maybe because I live in a climate that has very hot summers and we have always been warned about thawing meat at room temperature.

I think there's some debate on this, but I would never ever refreeze meat that has been thawed. Either eat it or throw it out.

Bottom line with meat, if you are concerned about it having been around too long, or anything else, thow it out rather than eat it. You don't want to be sick and I'm sure the bubs wouldn't like it either :)

[bookworm]

I opened a package of chicken sausage Wednesday morning. (The package says they're fully cooked.) I have been preparing them one at a time. Is that ok? Or should I have done them all at once? Am I risking them going bad? Would it be different if they were raw?

They are fine, and it would probably be different if they were raw :). Check the date on the package, and keep them airtight. I'd toss w/in 5 days of opening the package, or if they smell funny (whichever is first).

How long *can* you keep raw meat? Bacon?

Raw meat in the fridge? Check the date--I go by that. My mom trusts her instincts more than I do...once that date hits, or if it looks slimy/funny, I toss it. Bacon lasts longer because it has been cured.

How long do you keep leftovers?

Again, I use 5 days, or unless smelly. It's pretty arbitraty, but I'm comfortable with it :).

Do you have a separate cutting board for meat?

I do. A plastic one that I wash in boiling water (and soap, of course). It's actually getting pretty beat up so it's time for a new one.

Anything else I should be aware of?
When in doubt, toss it!

ETA: Oh, and agree with the above--I don't refreeze thawed meat (although I will thaw, cook, then re-freeze. That's different.). And I don't thaw on the counter either, though I'm ok with running cool water over the package to defrost (not leaving it sitting in a sink full of water).

[KarenS]

BEfore I answer your questions I'll say that really there's a lot of room for personal interpretation and tolerance in this matter. There are official guidelines at the USDA and other government food related sites; all of those sites will err on the side of extreme caution. Obiviously they are having to take into consideration a wide range of people, including those with allergies, immune disorders, illnesses, etc. So they are going to give you the most conservative information and figures possible.

Whether or not you choose to follow those figures by the book or not is entirely up to you, your personal comfort level, and whether or not you have a cast-iron stomach! :) Really there's some flexibility in the matter and you'll just have to learn what makes you feel comfortable.

Next I want to clarify that there's a huge difference between "meat" as a general and the various kinds of meat. Poultry is more suceptible to salmonella contamination; pork is more suceptible to trichinosis; beef is much less suceptible to contamination or to transferring contamination to other foods. So you'll want to be more careful with chicken, turkey, pork, than you will with beef.

I opened a package of chicken sausage Wednesday morning. (The package says they're fully cooked.) I have been preparing them one at a time. Is that ok? Or should I have done them all at once? Am I risking them going bad? Would it be different if they were raw?Yes, it would be different if they were raw. But even cooked food will go bad ... so yes, after a period of time (longer for cooked sausage than not), they will go bad. But you'll know when they go bad ... they'll start to get a greasy/slimy feel on the outside and the odor will change. I would say a week is the longest you should keep an open container of sausage or hotdogs or lunchmeat ... anything of that nature. Sometimes I'll keep things a little longer .. but not much.

How long *can* you keep raw meat? Bacon?See my comments above about "meat". Bacon is partially preserved by the process that makes it bacon (a smoking process that includes nitrates), so it will last longer than just plain raw meat. Chicken will go bad faster than beef. Fish will go back faster than either. I generally do not keep raw meat of any kind in the fridge longer than 2 days. If I'm not going ot use it in 2 days, then I'll freeze it.

How long do you keep leftovers?Again, it depends on what they are and how they're cooked. Rare roast beef doesn't keep as long as leftover fried chicken. Usually, again, I follow the 1 week rule. Some things can keep longer, but if I think I might keep them that long, I'll freeze them (if they're freezable).

Do you have a separate cutting board for meat?I have a separate cutting board for chicken and pork for health reasons, but I tend to cut all meat on a separate board to keep flavors separate more than for health reasons, when it comes to beef. I actually have 4 flexible plastic cutting boards I got from Ikea for something like $4 for a set of 2. They're easy to wash and store. I don't do anything special when cleaning them - I rinse them in HOT water and put them in the dishwasher. Our dishwasher gets extremely hot and has a hot drying cycle which is, according to most experts, more than enough to kill salmonella bacteria or trichinosis. I do not bleach anything in my kitchen ever. I think it's more dangerous to use bleach around consumables than it is to properly wash something in soap and hot water and dry it - which is what the experts recommend.

Anything else I should be aware of?Again, keep in mind that not all meat is equal.

Just for clarification, there is nothing dangerous about thawing and refreezing meat. The caution against repeatedly re-freezing meat is that the process of thawing and freezing and thawing again breaks down the fibers in the meat and makes it tough and dry and flavorless. You can thaw and refreeze as much as you want, but it will affect the flavor and texture of the meat.

Also a lot of people will tell you that you cannot thaw meat on the counter becuase it will "cause" it to become infected with salmonella or other bacteria. This is technically not true either. Thawing meat slowly doesn't *cause* infection. The precaution against leaving meat on the counter thawing is that it thaws slowly enough that the outsides to get warmer than the insides and it's possible for the outside edges of the meat to get warm enough to allow a bacteria that already exists in the meat to breed while the rest is still thawing. The thing about bacteria in meat is that if properly cooked, the bacteria is going to be killed anyway. You only have to worry about bacteria in meat FIRST if the meat is actually infected (which not all meat is) and SECOND if the meat is undercooked (again, more of a risk for chicken and pork than for beef). This is one of those "personal risk" things that you'll have to decide for yourself. Personally I've been taking a package of meat (chicken, pork, beef, whatever) out of th fridge in the morning, putting it on the counter on a towel, and coming home and cooking it in the evening ... for most of my adult life (going on 20 years now) and I've never gotten food poisoning, salmonella poisoning, or even just sick. YMMV of course.

Karen

[AusMarchBride]

Also a lot of people will tell you that you cannot thaw meat on the counter becuase it will "cause" it to become infected with salmonella or other bacteria. This is technically not true either. Thawing meat slowly doesn't *cause* infection. The precaution against leaving meat on the counter thawing is that it thaws slowly enough that the outsides to get warmer than the insides and it's possible for the outside edges of the meat to get warm enough to allow a bacteria that already exists in the meat to breed while the rest is still thawing. The thing about bacteria in meat is that if properly cooked, the bacteria is going to be killed anyway. You only have to worry about bacteria in meat FIRST if the meat is actually infected (which not all meat is) and SECOND if the meat is undercooked (again, more of a risk for chicken and pork than for beef). This is one of those "personal risk" things that you'll have to decide for yourself. Personally I've been taking a package of meat (chicken, pork, beef, whatever) out of th fridge in the morning, putting it on the counter on a towel, and coming home and cooking it in the evening ... for most of my adult life (going on 20 years now) and I've never gotten food poisoning, salmonella poisoning, or even just sick. YMMV of course.

I agree entirely with what Karen said above. The meat thawed on the counter will not "become" infected by that process, the bacteria already has to be there and may be reactivated (freezing does not kill bacteria, merely makes it inactive). I'm also a person who eats my meat rare, so I tend to be more careful about how it's thawed as I know it won't be getting to very high internal temperatures to kill off those nasty bacteria.

But I would say that because a) you are pregnant and therefore your immune system is lower than normal, and b) because you are not a meat eater and would therefore have very little tolerance for meat inhabiting bacteria, I'd err on the side of caution.

[Weddings by]

Wood is supposed to be safer than plastic, and better on your knives. However, I own both and use whichever I feel like using, and we've never had any problems, so maybe it doesn't really matter much. :)

[QueenDillyDally]

Let me preface my response by first telling you that I am a Registered Dietitian and a Certified instructor for ServSafe Food Safety Certification....

Many of the previous answers are correct but there are a few inaccuracies also:

originally quoted by KarenS
Also a lot of people will tell you that you cannot thaw meat on the counter becuase it will "cause" it to become infected with salmonella or other bacteria. This is technically not true either. Thawing meat slowly doesn't *cause* infection. The precaution against leaving meat on the counter thawing is that it thaws slowly enough that the outsides to get warmer than the insides and it's possible for the outside edges of the meat to get warm enough to allow a bacteria that already exists in the meat to breed while the rest is still thawing. The thing about bacteria in meat is that if properly cooked, the bacteria is going to be killed anyway. You only have to worry about bacteria in meat FIRST if the meat is actually infected (which not all meat is) and SECOND if the meat is undercooked (again, more of a risk for chicken and pork than for beef). This is one of those "personal risk" things that you'll have to decide for yourself. Personally I've been taking a package of meat (chicken, pork, beef, whatever) out of th fridge in the morning, putting it on the counter on a towel, and coming home and cooking it in the evening ... for most of my adult life (going on 20 years now) and I've never gotten food poisoning, salmonella poisoning, or even just sick. YMMV of course.

THIS IS A VERY DANGEROUS PRACTICE!
Food MUST be brought to a safe temperature in a process of TWO hours or else you risk exposure to food borne illness that may NOT be killed in the cooking process. There are spores that can grow on food that even the highest temperature will not kill.
The safest means of thawing meat is in the refrigerator. You can also thaw meat under cold running water or in the microwave as long as it is not in the "DANGER ZONE" (41 to 139 degrees F) longer than 2 hours.

It may be true that many people have not gotten food poisoning from thawing meat on the counter (i.e. my mom does it anyways to my dismay) BUT how do you know that you really have the flu? was it really the flu? or was it food poisoning? Many people have decreased immune systems at one point in their lives which would make one more apt to have ill effects from food poisoning. Children, elderly people, Pregnant women, and those with decreased immune function (such as HIV, Cancer) would be more susceptible to food borne illnesses.

Leftovers -
Should NOT be kept more than 3 days (72 HOURS) from the date of cooking/preparing. Also, they should be reheating to at least 180 degrees F in order to kill any bacteria/viruses (not 140 degrees F as previously mentioned).

If you are cooling down cooked foods, make sure they cool down to 40 degress in 4 hours. Use shallow containers to put your leftovers in as this will increase the surface area, thus allowing them to cool faster. Example - if you have a large pot of stew and just put in in the fridg to cool down the middle of the stew will not cool enough within four hours so you are more susceptible to bacteria growth. Also, it is a myth that the food needs to sit on the counter for an hour or two to cool before you put it in the fridg. I always transfer the leftovers to a smaller/shallow container(s) after the meal and put them right into the fridg (usually with the corner of the cover open to allow cool air to get into the container).

I do not have a separate cutting board for meat... This is not a requirement (although it may be safer). As long as you do not cross contaminate by cutting meat on your board and then your vegetables, you should be okay. Just make sure that your dishwasher or wash water is greater than 180 degrees F in order to kill any bacteria on the cutting board. I have three cutting boards so if I am cutting meat, I will use the other one for the vegetables but I do not have them "labeled" for use for just meat all the time. They do make really nice colored cutting boards for institutional use. I would recommend durable plastic cutting boards. Wood is not safer - it is more porous and breaks down quicker in hot dish washing temperatures.

Definately make sure you thaw your meat on the BOTTOM shelf of the fridg and make sure it is on a pan/dish so the drippings will not drip into your produce bins.

THE NUMBER ONE MOST IMPORTANT FOOD SAFETY PRACTICE IS HANDWASHING. Cross-contamination (transfer of bacteria from one surface to another) is most commonly done by poor handwashing practices. So, if you are preparing meat make sure you wash your hands THOROUGHLY after touching raw meat products before going onto your next step. Also, kitchen surfaces need to be washed down well as non-visible bacteria may be adhering to the counters, sink, etc....

I'm sure there is SOOOO much more but it is very early in the morning and my brain is on weekend mode ;)

HTH!!!

[southhavenjen]

shicks72 is correct and makes several very valid points. I am a professional chef and have my ServSafe certification as well.

I learned in a recent sanitation class that when you think you have the flu, 2/3 of the time it's actually food poisoning.

Also, something that I learned, and shicks72, as a ServSafe instructor can probably elaborate upon, is some forms of bacteria in meat will create a toxin (a by-product of their rapid multiplication) when they are left in the food zone of 40-140 degrees for a period of time. While cooking to recommended temperatures will kill the bacteria, no amount of cooking to ANY temperature will eliminate the toxins, which can make you very sick or even kill you if your immune system is comprimised.

I can't second her points on handwashing and preventing cross contamination enough. Most people don't understand how cross contamination can happen and just don't wash enough, or clean surfaces thoroughly enough.

I don't have a separate cutting board for meat, either, but I always use plastic cutting boards. It is safer for the reasons stated above. I always cut my veggies first, then the meat. After I am done cutting the meat, I lay the cutting board in the sink and douse it with a liberal amount of bleach, and rub it in with my fingers. I usually let it sit a bit with the bleach on it for a bit, then pop it in the dishwasher for good measure. This is how we handle cutting boards in our commercial kitchen at work, so I do the same at home. I am paranoid about food safety only because I know from the classes I've taken what can happnen

[kristin9903]

The thing about bacteria in meat is that if properly cooked, the bacteria is going to be killed anyway. You only have to worry about bacteria in meat FIRST if the meat is actually infected (which not all meat is) and SECOND if the meat is undercooked (again, more of a risk for chicken and pork than for beef). This is one of those "personal risk" things that you'll have to decide for yourself

Since a couple of us have stated our "credentials" here, I'll state mine, too. I have a PhD in Food Science and Technology, influence in poultry health and food safety (mostly with eggs, I admit...but still).

I think that you need to assume that every piece of meat that you purchase is infected. Yes, there is microbial testing in plants, but all that really tells you is that the sample they took had no pathogens, which is less than convincing IMHO. Especially with chicken, since those are commonly chilled in large vats. This means if one chicken was contaminated, every chicken that shared that same vat is contaminated. It's especially important to take this view during times of being immunocompromised, such as pregnancy. Being close to 17w pg myself, I can say my food safety practices at home have increased dramatically.

That being said, cooking really will take care of most of the risks, just as Karen suggests.

If all of this freaks you out, you could go back to eating lots of soy. It's a complete protein, just like meat. :) Eggs, if you can stand them, are also an excellent source of protein.

Shicks Thanks for correcting me on reheating leftovers. They shouldn't be held at temps lower than 140, right? My ServSafe is getting rusty!

[QueenDillyDally]

Right, kristin9903 - they shouldn't be held at less than 140 degrees. Actually, nothing that is "potentially hazardous" should be kept at temperatures between 41 degrees and 140 degrees F.

NOTE to my mom - "it is NOT okay to put your leftovers on the porch in the winter when there is not enough room in the fridge!!!" :o

"Potentially Hazardous Foods" are ANYTHING with high protein content, or high acidity, or moisture (basically any food where microorganisms can grow rapidly). Which INCLUDES vegetarian protein sources such as soy products, beans, sprouts, etc...

Just practicing safe food handling for ALL foods is the best way to go!

[KarenS]

And again - while yes, I understand the certifications and rules ... those are extremely conservative becuase they have to apply to the population at large, which includes people with illnesses and immune disorders who are more susceptible. I also agree that being pregnant, the OP needs to probably err on the side of caution.

That said:
THIS IS A VERY DANGEROUS PRACTICE!
Food MUST be brought to a safe temperature in a process of TWO hours or else you risk exposure to food borne illness that may NOT be killed in the cooking process. I think that's scaremongering. And in a home kitchen it is often simply impossible to bring food to a "safe temperature" in 2 hours. Taking a frozen chicken or a large pork roast from freezing to cooking in 2 hours is not always possible in a home kitchen. I'm not saying leave your frozen meat out on the counter overnight or for days at a time. I am saying use reasonable caution tempered with common sense.

BUT how do you know that you really have the flu? was it really the flu? or was it food poisoning? Again, I think this is scaremongering. It's unnecessary.

Children, elderly people, Pregnant women, and those with decreased immune function (such as HIV, Cancer) would be more susceptible to food borne illnesses.Absolutely - and as I said the OP, being pregnant, would probably want to be a bit more conservative in this area.

Leftovers -
Should NOT be kept more than 3 days (72 HOURS) from the date of cooking/preparing. Also, they should be reheating to at least 180 degrees F in order to kill any bacteria/viruses (not 140 degrees F as previously mentioned). And again - hooey. Yes, I understand that's the legal certification rules for restaurants and those who serve other people ... but they are extremely conservative again, to apply to a large cross-section of the population. I usually keep leftovers about a week - depending on what they are.

There is a LOT of middle ground here. A whole lot. It is not that cut and dried.

Karen

[chefker]

That said:
I think that's scaremongering. And in a home kitchen it is often simply impossible to bring food to a "safe temperature" in 2 hours. Taking a frozen chicken or a large pork roast from freezing to cooking in 2 hours is not always possible in a home kitchen. I'm not saying leave your frozen meat out on the counter overnight or for days at a time. I am saying use reasonable caution tempered with common sense.





Not necessarily scaremongering, IMO, but ServSafe guidelines, which are in place to make sure restaurants & institutions fully adhere to the 'safe range' and not fall into 'potentially hazardous' territory. Believe me, it was drilled into my head in culinary school. :) Many of us, including my classmates, didn't always put this into practice at home (but we made damn sure we did in school or when doing catering/restaurant work--you have to document all that stuff or the Board of Health can nail you!) But at home...I do feel that's a different story, and subject to individual judgement. You're not obligated to temp all your food and turn in your charts to a health inspector when cooking at home!

Really, if you have an instant-read thermometer--one can easily judge for themselves what is safe or not, as far as serving/holding temperatures. As I said, what we do in our home kitchens is up to our own judgement/interpretation. ServSafe guidelines exist to prevent the general public from being served potentially hazardous food.

As far as thawing out meat--I've left it on the counter for a couple of hours, but if I remember far enough ahead, I prefer to thaw it overnight in the refrigerator. Maybe reading about pathogens made me cautious/queasy!

Another interesting thing I learned--when thawing meat out, you SHOULD place it on the bottom-most shelf of your refrigerator, in case any juices drip out. Nobody wants raw chicken juice on other consumables! Blech. Basically, you should have your non-hazardous foods near the top, and potentially hazardous foods toward the bottom. It's funny though, most home refrigerators are set up with veggie bins on the BOTTOM. I think a better design would be to have the meat drawer on the bottom, and the veggie bins further up. FWIW!

[southhavenjen]

I think that's scaremongering. And in a home kitchen it is often simply impossible to bring food to a "safe temperature" in 2 hours. Taking a frozen chicken or a large pork roast from freezing to cooking in 2 hours is not always possible in a home kitchen. I'm not saying leave your frozen meat out on the counter overnight or for days at a time. I am saying use reasonable caution tempered with common sense.



It IS possible to bring food to a safe temperature in 2 hours in a home kitchen. It just requires some planning, is all. We don't have any "magic" ways of defrosting meat in a commercial kitchen that you don't have access to at home. We plan ahead and pull things out of the freezer accordingly.

You should pull your roast or frozen chicken out of the freezer and place it in the fridge to thaw completely for a couple of days before you plan to use it. Things like chicken breasts or a package of ground beef can be safely thawed in the microwave or under cold running water if you are short on time.

I understand you think the stuff we posted is "scaremongering" but we were responding to questions posted by the OP, who is pregnant. She falls into a category that is high risk. Her food needs to be handled with utmost care. Many of the people reading here have children, who likewise are more susceptible to food poisoning, and whose parents should not be cutting corners with food safety.

Also, do you ever cook for guests or take items to a potluck? You may think you and your husband don't fall into a high-risk category but your guests or others who eat your food at a potluck might. It's just good practice to follow the guidelines all the time so you are in the habit of doing so, and so you remember them. It can't hurt to practice the food safety guidelines, but it can be devastating if you don't. I prefer to err on the side of caution.

[chefker]

You may think you and your husband don't fall into a high-risk category but your guests or others who eat your food at a potluck might.

Good point! If it's just me and DH eating by ourselves--I'm not as stringent with my ServSafe guidelines, I must admit. (I am being extra careful lately though, as I am pregnant...having enough digestive issues due to hormones, without risking food poisoning for myself!)

If we have a whole group of relatives over for the holidays, for example--well, half of them are likely to be elderly, and thus in a high risk group...I'd rather be a little more anal about temps/food safety with that group. JMO.

[BTB]

Thanks to shicks and southhavenjen for the great info!

I'm not servsafe certified (or any kind of food certified), nor do I play a chef on tv. But I do know about the management of chronic illness, and I've got to respectfully disagree with the premise that "the official rules" are there to protect everybody, including the ill, thus the healthy among us need not take heed.

It's a routine part of the medical care of immunocompromised individuals to provide education in what they need to do to keep themselves from falling ill in a wide variety of situations - public spaces, bringing plants into the home, food safety, etc. The current regulations are not conservative enough to protect many of the ill, and therefore I would not approach them as if they were intended for the sickest among us.

[KarenS]

I've got to respectfully disagree with the premise that "the official rules" are there to protect everybody, including the ill, thus the healthy among us need not take heed.Now see ... that's twisting what I said. Nowhere in any of my posts did I say that the healthy don't need to "take heed". I said that you should know the official guidelines and temper them with your own situation and common sense. There is nothing wrong with following the guidelines to the letter - but there is also no need to imply that if you donh't follow them to the letter you are doing something (and I quote) "EXTREMELY DANGEROUS" and putting yourself and others at risk.

There is always a middle ground - and what is appropriate for a restaurant or other commercial kitchen is not necessarily ... well ... necessary for personal, private kitchens.

Karen

[QueenDillyDally]

I really didn't mean for my response to initiate a great debate...

I was just trying to state the FACTS rather than my own OPINION on the food safety issues. I believe it is irresponsible to give anyone information based on one's opinion (rather than stating facts) especially when it could lead to horrible consequences, or even death. Yes, if the food borne illness is bad enough it CAN cause DEATH. That is NOT scaremongering - it is the truth!

What anyone does in their own kitchen is their right and I don't really care what others do in their kitchens. But, when it affects others (i.e. southhavenjen's example of the potluck dinners) that is another story. That is why I avoid public potluck dinners, church/charity suppers and the like as there have been many cases of food borne illnesses at these functions.

There was even a case of someone in my home state of Maine a few years back that DIED from botulism poisoning. Supposedly, this restaurant where this person ate was being investigated. Well, come to find out, this person actually got the botulism poisoning from their HOME canned moose meat!!! Unfortunately, this restaurant ended up closing down due to bad press and the "unsubstantiated" rumors that they were the culprits of the food poisoning.

And it is so true what southhavenjen says about institutional cooking facilities. We do NOT have any different means of cooking & preparing food in our commerial kitchens than we do at home. DH & I plan our meals and if we need to thaw out our meat fast, we use running water. It is that simple.


And in a home kitchen it is often simply impossible to bring food to a "safe temperature" in 2 hours. Taking a frozen chicken or a large pork roast from freezing to cooking in 2 hours is not always possible in a home kitchen
I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. No, food does not have to be cooked within 2 hours as long as the cooking process is taking place in a timely fashion. What I meant by my statement "Food MUST be brought to a safe temperature in a process of TWO hours or else you risk exposure to food borne illness that may NOT be killed in the cooking process" was that during the thawing and recooling process it should be withing a 2 hour time frame. We all know that it takes a LONG time to cook a Turkey for instance so I am not saying that you have to cook it in 2 hours. Sorry for the confusion.

P.S. Thanks kristin9903, BTB and southhavenjen for the support ;)
P.S.S. I personally do not like being attacked for giving the OP sound food safety knowledge :confused:

[KarenS]

I personally do not like being attacked Oh please. I didn't attack you. I disagreed with you. Or is disagreeing = attacking now?

I believe it is irresponsible to give anyone information based on one's opinion (rather than stating facts)I disagree. There's nothing wrong with saying "this is the way I do it" and "this is my opinion" as long as the person being advised knows that what is being presented is opinion and knows what the facts are and can make the ultimate decision for herself.

Karen

[Rose]

I am ServSafe certified, and yes I am more relaxed about cooking for DH & I. That doesn't mean I run raw chicken over everything though.

[SingleWhiteFemale]

And in a home kitchen it is often simply impossible to bring food to a "safe temperature" in 2 hours. Taking a frozen chicken or a large pork roast from freezing to cooking in 2 hours is not always possible in a home kitchen.Actually it is much more simple than one would think :)

Next time you're in the market for a new microwave, you can do a little bit of research and you'll find some microwaves that are pure magic. When ours died, we found one from Bray&Scarf (division of Sears). It has a custom reheat and defrost option for many things. Frozen: juice, chicken, meat, rolls/bagels and a few others. Reheat: plate, meat, rolls/bread, and others. Pop in your frozen roast, defrost meat, put in the approximate weight, and it'll be defrosted evenly! It's an amazing feature that has saved my behind more often than not, and I don't have to remember to take something out in the morning :) And, the great part is, it's thawed, not that horrible cooked on the outside while frozen on the inside. It's even possible to do with frozen chicken (one of the hardest things ever to defrost in the microwave) breasts. It defrosted over 3 lbs of Porterhouses inunder 30 minutes. Best part is, it was not the top of the line or most expensive model they sold.

[BTB]

Karen, with no snark intended, this is I think the third time in about a week you've said I "twisted" your words. I assure you, there is no intentional manipulation of what you've said occurring. My response reflects my understanding of your post, if it is frequently off may I respectfully suggest that your posts might not be as clear to others as they are to you? Because I think what you mean and what I "get" being different might be the problem, since I'm truly not trying to falsely represent what you've said.

I posted it's not true the healthy need not 'take heed', if I can state this as clearly as possible (to me) ;) I would rephrase that it is a mistake to think the guidelines are written for the sick - which is what I get out of what you said.

To be as straightforward as possible, I'll quote:
There are official guidelines at the USDA and other government food related sites; all of those sites will err on the side of extreme caution. Obiviously they are having to take into consideration a wide range of people, including those with allergies, immune disorders, illnesses, etc. So they are going to give you the most conservative information and figures possible.

I disagree with "extreme caution" and would call it the opposite of scaremongering - comfort-with-more-laxity mongering? :) I also disagree that it is "the most conservative" information possible. There actually are degrees of conservativism for the ill that go above and beyond the "general population" guidelines which are written to keep healthy children and healthy elderly (in addition to healthy adults) safe, but are NOT sufficient for the immunocompromised and the chronically ill.

There is always a middle ground - and what is appropriate for a restaurant or other commercial kitchen is not necessarily ... well ... necessary for personal, private kitchens.

Food safety in commercial kitchens is particularly important because of the potential to sicken large groups of people all at once, straining local health resources. (For example, there may be only 120 ventilators in area hospitals, of which 95 may be in use by other critically ill patients on most days; a botulism outbreak that sickens 50 people would then be a major public health crisis).

However, most cases of food poisoning are the result of home exposure to foodborne pathogens. It's debatable whether the fact that the overwhelming majority of food poisoning occurs at home is due to the absence of proper hygienic practices or simply a statistical reflection of where most meals are consumed. At any rate, the CDC estimates 1 in 4 Americans contracts foodborne illness each year - thus while I'm unfamiliar with what, exactly, ServSafe calls for, and don't think every single kitchen in the US ought to pass a DPH inspection, a little extra caution at home sure wouldn't hurt.

[southhavenjen]

I am ServSafe certified, and yes I am more relaxed about cooking for DH & I. That doesn't mean I run raw chicken over everything though.

I am more relaxed too - I didn't mean to make it sound like I am a kitchen nazi at home. :D There are just certain things for me that are non-negotiable. I wouldn't ever thaw meat on the counter or otherwise keep food in the danger zone of 40-140 degrees for long lengths of time. That's just asking for trouble.

We do keep leftovers for longer than 3 days but I make sure they are heated properly when we do eat them.

Shicks72, I am wary of eating at potlucks or other people's homes too. The public is, in general, totally misinformed about food safety. They just don't get it. I remember eating a Thanksgiving dinner at some friends of my husband's family's house and being completely freaked out when they didn't temp the turkey at all. They cut into it (I was watching) and the juices weren't running clear and there was pinkness in the center - yet they piled it on a platter and served it. It was total salmonella city. Needless to say, I didn't have any. In fact, I didn't want to eat anything because if they were that careless about the turkey, how did they handle the other food? It's pretty pathetic, because the husband of the family is a surgeon and they should know better.

[QueenDillyDally]

Just for the record, I too, am not a "kitchen nazi"! I just practice safe food handling practices. If I were that strict in my home kitchen, I would be wearing a hair net at all times and my pets wouldn't be allowed near the kitchen!!! :D

I just think it is important to give the OP facts rather than one's own opinion. I don't really think she was asking for our "opinions", I think she was looking for knowledge on safe food handling practices.

What we all do in one's own kitchen is up to us, that's for sure.

KarenS - we can just agree to disagree and call it that.

[Annette]

I have a question:

Why do some restaurants not serve burgers that are medium rare / medium?
Is it safe to eat a burger thats cooked to medium rare / medium?

Why would ground beef be different than steak in this regard?

[southhavenjen]

I have a question:

Why do some restaurants not serve burgers that are medium rare / medium?
Is it safe to eat a burger thats cooked to medium rare / medium?

Why would ground beef be different than steak in this regard?

It is not considered safe to eat a burger that is anything less than well done. In my state, restaurants have to put a disclosure on the menu that certain partially cooked foods are unsafe to eat. So then if you order a medium-rare hamburger or eggs over easy, you are doing so at your own risk and cannot hold the restaurant liable.

The reason that ground beef is different that steak is that it's a commingled product - i.e., there could be many different cows in your one hamburger. That increases the chance that it could contain a pathogen. Also, the way cows are slaughtered (not to be gross or give TMI) it is common that cow feces, which contains e coli, will come in contact with the meat at some point. If it's a steak, it just touches the surface of the steak, and cooking will eliminate the e coli bacteria. If the feces touches meat that is destined to be ground beef, the grinding process causes the bacteria to be mixed throughout the product. That's why the hamburgers need to be cooked to well done, in order to kill all the bacteria.

[QueenDillyDally]

MMMM...... makes me want to eat my chili (made with hamburger) tonight!!! ;)

I have had numerous thoughts of becoming vegetarian but I just crave the taste of meat sometimes! I don't have the willpower!

[southhavenjen]

It is gross, isn't it?

I don't have the willpower to give up meat either. I just try not to think about it too much.

[Weddings by]

I never really did answer any of your specific questions.

I have a meat drawer in my fridge that has it's own temp adjuster. My entire frig is already 34, so the meat is almost frozen. :p In fact, if I leave something in the back, it will freeze. I mention that for 2 reasons. 1) As an idea if you want to be sure your meat lasts as long as possible. 2) It might mena that my meat lasts longer than that of most people, so my experiences might only be valid for a few people. KWIM?

Meat should have a date on it, so your sausages should be fine until the date on the pkg. Usually, I freeze the ones I know I won't be eating within several days, just to make sure they don't get gross and have to be thrown out. I have had precooked sausages get kind of slimy before the date. Maybe they got some airborne germs in there that started something.

If I've had OPENED raw meat in my frig for more than a few days, I get leary of it. But I always just smell it. If it smells weird, I throw it out. If the pkg hasn't yet been opened, I go by the date on the pkg. I've found that, if unopened, it will usually last a couple of days past the date--when it's bought from Costco. Grocery store meat, I sometimes throw away before the date stamped.

Bacon--prepackaged bacon will have a date stamped on it. If unopened, mine lasts until that date. Once opened...I usually have to use it in less than a week or it gets a little weird looking. It might still be fine, I don't know. I usually buy my bacon at Costco and get the low sodium. It's plenty salty, has a good flavor, and doesn't almost disappear when it's cooked.

Somebody mentioned 3 days for leftovers. I try to eat mine within that amount of time, but if it's something really good that I forgot about...if it still smells and looks good, sometimes (depending upon my desperation) I will reheat it and eat it anyway. :o (Like when it's leftovers from my favorite, expensive, Thai restaurant.) It's probably worse to eat old leftovers from a restaurant than from myself, because I know my cooking practices, and while a restaurant should be following stict codes...well... But that's all opinion and speculation.

I own 3 cutting boards. I like my wooden one best so whatever I'm cutting the most of, will get cut on that. In one meal, I will usually keep the meat on one cutting board, and veggies on another. I do that so much, that even if I'm cooking the veggies with the meat, I have a hard time using the same cutting board. :rolleyes: Just a good, BIG habit, I suppose. (Earlier in the thread I mentioned that wood is supposed to be safer than plastic because for the past 12 years, most studies have shown that, but most people are still taught the opposite, and I didn't want you to feel that if you only own wood, you need to run out and buy plastic. Personally, I don't like to use plastic. Too many icky chemicals. Bleh. BUT I don't think the difference in safety of one vs the other is going to make a difference, based upon what I've read. I think a person should use whichever makes him/her feel comfortable.)

The "Anything else I should be aware of?" question:

I have had food poisoning once. It was from chicken that was raw on the inside. I was too "proper" to spit it out, so I just ate it. :rolleyes: Food handling is so different in other countries. While in Japan, we had some meat patties for dinner. The next morning they were still in the same spot on the table, at room temperature. We ate them for breakfast. Nobody got sick. In Ukriane, most people didn't have refrigerators. We were traveling for 2 days in a hot van with a fish wrapped in newspaper on the extremely hot floor. Our hosts cooked it the day after we got to our destination. (This fish had been unrefrigerated for at least 3 days--and hot.) I didn't eat any because I knew where it had been and the thought grossed me out, but I figured they knew what they were doing because they don't have refrigeration and they seem to know how to cook things that have been left out. Nobody got sick, not even the other American who isn't used to eating food that way. We ate lots of things like that. Milk products that sat by the road in the sun. Keilbasas that were in unrefrigerated cases in the store. Food covered with flies. Our friends from the Ukraine leave their borsch out all night then reboil it the next day and continue eating it. (They do reboil it for a certain number of minutes, though.)

I'm telling you all of this for this reason:
It is important to know the safe food handling procedures, but it is good to know that meat isn't the big, scary thing it sounds like while learning those procedures. :) I hope that helps.

If you want any recipes, I just posted some in my journal, and I love to cook, so I have tons more. :)

Congrats on your babies!


eta Since ground meat was brought up--I have always ground my own, and used to make my own sausage, too. (I don't know why I quit making sausage.) I have a meat grinding attachment for my Kitchenaid mixer and it works great!

[KarenS]

I'm telling you all of this for this reason:
It is important to know the safe food handling procedures, but it is good to know that meat isn't the big, scary thing it sounds like while learning those procedures.Exactly how I feel. Maybe having been/lived overseas has something to do with that. I dunno. I honestly feel like Americans make things a lot harder than they need to be. :)

BTB - I do feel, truthfully, that in several of our most recent exchanges you have intentionally polarized my words and then posted responding to something I did not say. This thread is a case in point. If you look at the paragraph I wrote after what you quoted, I said: "Whether or not you choose to follow those figures by the book or not is entirely up to you, your personal comfort level, and whether or not you have a cast-iron stomach! Really there's some flexibility in the matter and you'll just have to learn what makes you feel comfortable." Now how, out of that, do you come to the conclusion that I said "the healthy need not take heed"? That's what I mean about twisting my words. Nothing that I said even implied that you don't need to "take heed" of the rules - but that how you choose to follow those guidelines depends a lot on your personal situation and your comfort level with straying from the guidelines.

And yes, I understand that there are much more stringent guidelines for those who are seriously ill and so forth. But we've had this discussion before (not you and I, but on CC in general) and the fact of the matter is that the guidelines that the government puts out are going to be conservative to provide the best level of safety for the general public. That doesn't mean they apply to everyone equally - some people can be less conservative, some people will need to be more conservative. Deciding where you (general you) fall on that scale is a matter of individual choice. Knowing the guidelines ... and then making a reasoned and personal decision of when and where you choose to deviate from them is the wisest thing to do.

Karen

[colz85]

It is important to know the safe food handling procedures, but it is good to know that meat isn't the big, scary thing it sounds like while learning those procedures.

If you listen to enough food safety people, you'll think raw chicken is the equivalent of hazardous waste! :) That said, I err on the side of caution ALL the time. I have IBS, so I don't need to take any chances with my food. And like others, seeing how other people handle food can be kind of squicky.

I find it interesting when I read the restaurant inspections in our local paper, the ones with "critical violations" tend to be the "nicer" places, while the fast food joints are usually all clear.

I would of course defer to those educated in the matter, but my major practices are WASH HANDS, don't cross contaminate, and "hot foods hot, cold foods cold".

[looch]

I have to second Wedding by's suggestion to grind your own meat. I have the attachment for my kitchenaid. At first, I thought it was too much work, after all, I could just get a package at the supermarket for cheap. Then came mad cow. I learned that ground beef is the last of the last of the cow. It's got stuff in there I won't even mention! I now buy the large chuck roasts and cut them up and grind. One burger, meatloaf, etc done this way and you will never go back!

[Jad]

I just want to thank everyone for their *very* informative responses. I feel more prepared (and only slightly intimidated) and I've learned some things I'd never even heard of before (i.e. not putting leftovers into the giganto-tupperware since it won't cool off quickly enough -- I've always been a lover of large storage containers). And I definitely appreciate the more "conservative" info. I suspect I'd lean that way no matter what. 20 years later and I still remember that section of freshman year biology! :p

Now, I just need to pick out some recipes. Wheee!

[BTB]

BTB - I do feel, truthfully, that in several of our most recent exchanges you have intentionally polarized my words and then posted responding to something I did not say.

I respect that you feel that way, and am sorry to hear that you do, however, I feel I am the expert on what is or is not my intent and therefore reiterate my previous statement that my words reflect my understanding of your post.

You can explain further what you meant, but I think you are reading too much into my words regarding "taking heed". That is what I got out of your post, pure and simple: that you felt healthy people didn't need to worry about "official" food safety guidelines by virtue of the fact of their health. I continue to disagree.

We will just have to leave it at that. :)

If you listen to enough food safety people, you'll think raw chicken is the equivalent of hazardous waste!

Half of all chickens are infected with campylobacter jejuni. Just sayin'. ;)

[colz85]

Oh, BTB, I know that....FILTY animals, and the way they are slaughtered doesn't help. As I said...I'm pretty careful about my food handling.

[ellybelle]

Just a couple of points on this topic:

First of all, it is my understanding that research was done comparing wood to plastic cutting boards, and wooden ones do not allow bacteria to multiply in the way that plastic cutting boards do. I can only imagine that there is something still remaining in the wood that prevents bacteria from multiplying.

Also, watch out for kitchen clothes and sponges. They are perfect breeding grounds for bacteria while damp. One good thing to do is to wet them down and put them in the microwave for a couple of minutes.

[southhavenjen]

I'd like to see the research that wooden cutting boards are safer. I just don't believe it. In our commercial kitchen we exclusively use plastic - and every professional kitchen I've ever worked in has used plastic. There are high standards for kitchenware used in commercial kitchens - it all has to be approved by the National Sanitation Foundation. This includes cutting boards. We can't just go out and buy our stuff at Williams-Sonoma - it all has to be purchased through our vendors and have the NSF stamp. I've never seen NSF approved wooden cutting boards. There has to be a reason for this.

[QueenDillyDally]

I've never seen NSF approved wooden cutting boards. There has to be a reason for this.

Likewise, I was thinking the same thing too...
Our State of Maine regulations for long term care facilities read that plastic NSF cutting boards must be used.

It's interesting this came up this morning because I was just watching NBC's Today show and the chef on the show had a wood cutting board. So, is that just because it looks nicer for the camera???

[southhavenjen]

It's interesting this came up this morning because I was just watching NBC's Today show and the chef on the show had a wood cutting board. So, is that just because it looks nicer for the camera???

You know, I notice chefs doing all kinds of "no-no's" when they're on TV. I especially hate it when the women chefs have their long hair all styled just-so and hanging down past their shoulders. Pull it back for God's sake, and put on your toque while you're at it. I also hate to see them handling ready-to-eat food without gloves, because that's something that has been ingrained in me. I know that regulation varies from state to state, but it still bothers me to see chefs on TV doing things "wrong".

[kristin9903]

Just a couple of points on this topic:

First of all, it is my understanding that research was done comparing wood to plastic cutting boards, and wooden ones do not allow bacteria to multiply in the way that plastic cutting boards do. I can only imagine that there is something still remaining in the wood that prevents bacteria from multiplying.


Here's a couple of research studies that contradict this statement:

Enhanced survival of Campylobacter jejuni in association with wood.
Source: Journal of food protection. 61, no. 1 (Jan 1998): p. 26-30.

This study placed weak Campy cells in a broth with a block of wood. Something in the wood actually kept them alive. If a plastic membrane was placed around the wood block, the bacteria died.

Title: Bacterial retention and cleanability of plastic and wood cutting boards with commercial food service maintenance practices.
Source: Journal of food protection. 60, no. 4 (Apr 1997): p. 407-413.

This study used electron microscopy to look at the surfaces of both wood and plastic cutting boards. Plastic held up to cleaning better than wood; wood cutting boards had cracks large enough to hold bacteria in place. Wood cutting boards also had higher microbial counts.

Bacterial adherence and viability on cutting board surfaces.
Source: Journal of food safety. 14, no. 2 (May 1994): p. 153-172.

This study also used electron microscopy. They couldn't get counts on their wooden cutting boards, so they looked under the microscope. Turns out, the bacteria were embedded in the wood. Further testing showed that these organisms were alive and able to reproduce. Bacteria on plastic boards were countable, but easily taken care of with washing/disinfection.

And, just to be fair...

Comparison of wooden and polyethylene cutting boards: potential for the attachment and removal of bacteria from ground beef.
Source: Journal of food protection. 59, no. 8 (Aug 1996): p. 854-858.

In this study, they put ground beef on both wood and plastic cutting boards. Microbial counts were not statistically different.


Decontamination of plastic and wooden cutting boards for kitchen use.
Source: Journal of food protection. 57, no. 1 (Jan 1994): p. 23-30.

This one says that more bacteria were isolated from plastic boards. This was because the bacteria were absorbed into the wooden cutting boards more quickly, making it impossible for them to get counts. They did say that proper disinfection took care of this problem, though. This one did mention some slight inhibitory properties of wood, but it was pretty much just speculation (from what I could tell from the abstract)

Looks like there's info that supports both sides of the issues. I do think, though, that the data supports the fact that the bacteria are better absorbed, and therefore held, by cutting boards made of wood. Here ends my, "Yes, I am a nerd," moment of the day. :)

[KitKat]

There seem to be two very different schools of thought here. Do you rinse or not?

I wash just about everything and then try to sanitize well before cooking. SO many chefs these days are skipping the rinse these days!

[beachlvr]

I was told not to rinse my poultry because it spreads bacteria all through the kitchen. So I generally don't rinse it.

[IrisHope]

Definitely poultry but not meat.

[nic]

what Iris said.

just wondering, why would washing poultry spread germs around the kitchen?

[mrstim]

I rinse chicken, pork & fish, and most beef. I don't rinse hamburger before, but I strain & rinse it after cooking.

[PrincessTommi]

I've never thought of rinsing meat before cooking. Is it beneficial? I feel so out of the loop. :o

[fuzzy]

I tend to wash poultry, but not meat.

I just found this:

Rinsing Meat: Food Safety Help or Hindrance?
Historically, we equate washing with cleanliness. Why, then is one of the recommendations in the 2005 Dietary Guidelines for Americans that consumers not wash meat and poultry before cooking? The reason lies in minimizing the spread of bacteria. Bacteria present on the surface of meat or poultry are easily destroyed by cooking, but bacteria spread to other surfaces and foods during the washing process may not receive the needed heat treatment.

According to USDA's Meat and Poultry hotline, bacteria from the rinsed meat is easily spread to the sink, faucet, your hands, dish clothes, and anything you touch or that comes in contact with the raw meat. Further contamination may occur if other food items such as fresh vegetables or fruits are then placed in the sink. While the bacteria on the meat will be destroyed during cooking, that on the salad ingredients will likely be served to the dinner guests.

The USDA also does not recommend washing eggs before storing or using them. Washing is a routine part of commercial egg processing and eggs do not need to be washed again. Fresh laid eggs have a natural coating called "bloom," which helps prevent bacteria from permeating the shell. Although removed by washing, egg processors restore this protection with a light coating of edible mineral oil. At home, extra handling of eggs, such as washing, could increase the risk of cross contamination, especially if the shell becomes cracked.

Fruits and vegetables do need to be thoroughly washed before eating, especially if served without further cooking. An information sheet by the Food Safety Inspection Service (FSIS) taking aim to educate consumers about these misconceptions can be viewed at online.

Sources:
Does Washing Food Promote Food Safety? USDA/Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS). July 1999. Available at www.fsis.usda.gov/OA/pubs/washing.htm.
2005 Dietary Guidelines Advisory Committee Report: Food Safety. Available at www.health.gov/dietaryguidelines/dga2005/report/PDF/D9_FoodSafety.pdf.

http://www.colostate.edu/Orgs/safefood/NEWSLTR/v9n2s04.html

[Vishenka69]

It depends, sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. Sometimes I marinade stuff, so then there's definitely no rinsing. But if I take fish/chicken out of the package and it feels a little sticky, I'll rinse it. As long as you wash anything in the sink and the sink itself thoroughly after washing the meat, I don't see the problem.

[looch]

I rinse fish, poultry and pork tenderloin.

[eponymous]

I've never even heard of rinsing poultry! After thinking about it for a few minutes, I agree with the safety statement posted - I feel confident that I cook the stuffing out of any meat, so it's safe, but I don't know how I would kill the poultry bacteria in my sink without using bleach, which is its own safety issue - especially since I'm sensitive to its fumes!

[IrisHope]

I mainly wash chicken because it grosses me out to think of everyone who handled it. that's a big reason I wash fruit too. I don't wash meat though. I have to think about that :)

[Layla]

I thoroughly rinse chicken before putting it in the pan, and then wipe down the counter and sink to avoid bacterial contamination.

I also rinse seafood under water as well very briefly just to give it a rinse. Why not? Makes me feel "cleaner" about everything.

[KarenS]

Rinse or wash? No. But I brine all poultry before cooking it. Does that count? :)

ETA: I take that back. Sometimes I'll rinse chicken before I cook it if I've removed the skin - just to help get bits of skin and fat off the meat. But in general as a safety rule, no, I don't rinse.

Karen

[mgrace]

No.

[shopaholic]

Ditto to that ^^

I never rinse my meat/poultry.

[kimbyj]

I used to wash the heck out of poultry and fish before cooking (I don't eat other meats). I would wash them and soak them or at least give them a good scrub with some lemon juice (acidic). My mother is from the West Indies and this is a custom all cooks there seem to have.

Approx. 3 months ago I watched 2 different chef shows where the chefs talked about not washing food especially poultry b/c of the spread of salmonella. They said since we cook meats to the "right" temp all of the bacteria would be killed. Then my mother reminded me of a 20/20, dateline type of show where they showed how much chicken bacteria we get on the counter, sink, garbage pails, sponges, knifes etc. when we wash/cook/prepare poultry. So now, I don't wash...unless Mom is around :p !

[tenofcups]

Never rinsed either. I've heard or rinsing poultry, but I've never even heard or rinsing meat (somehow, that just seems kind of gross to me).

[maplekitty]

I rinse all my meat before cooking. Then I wipe the entire sink, faucet, counter, and under-the-sink cupboard doorknobs with Lysol a wipe.

[Boopy]

Wow, I have never heard of rinsing meat or poultry before! It's amazing the things I learn here. :p Like some pp have said, you should be cooking it to a high enough temperature to kill any bacteria that's on it. Also, now that I think about it I've never seen a chef on TV do it that I can remember either. I think I'll stick to not washing, so far we've been ok!

[justHB]

I'd say I rinse about 80 percent of the time. I also wipe down my countertops and sink with antibacterial soaps and and bleach agents.

[pocket]

Rinse or wash? No. But I brine all poultry before cooking it. Does that count? :)

Same here! I almost always brine poultry. I don't rinse beef, and I don't cook pork, but I do rinse fish because it's usually bloody.

[Angelfish]

I think I already know the answer to this question, but I need further convincing.

Last Thursday night, I went grocery shopping and picked up boneless, skinless chicken breasts because they were on sale. Yesterday around supper time I decided to do something with them before they went bad (Consume or freeze by Feb 3). However, went I looked in the fridge for them and they weren't there. I checked the freezer and they weren't there either. I then panicked and searched the kitchen, thinking I had set them down when I brought in the groceries and then forgotten to put them away. I could not find them. I decided that perhaps I had just thought about purchasing them, but had not after all.

So... Today I dug my car out of the snow after a blizzard and drove downtown. Then I looked behind the seat and found the package of chicken breasts. They had been in my car for the past week at temperatures hovering around 0 (Celcius). I don't think that they would have gotten too warm compared to refrigerator temperatures, but they may have frozen and thawed.

Are they safe to eat?

[BTB]

I think the "official" (there are several food safety certified ladies around) answer will be that the more important thing is how thoroughly they're heated before being eaten. However my personal answer is no, I would not eat them. I'd feel bad to waste the food, but one package isn't that expensive, and I'd feel like I couldn't be "sure" they had been at an appropriate temp the whole time. The blizzard may give you more confidence in that fact. :)

[mgrace]

The "official" food safety answer would be no, throw them out. You don't know if it did reach 41 degrees F (which is the "danger" zone) due to sun, etc. I'm sure they could be OK, but just remember: when in doubt, throw it out.

[karen]

I follow the "when in doubt, throw it out" rule as well. I don't want to get sick so I wouldn't risk it.

BTW, did you open the package and smell the chicken? I usually throw away meat when it has a certain smell to it.

[Angelfish]

I was planning to throw it out last night, but after opening the package today and smelling them (no smell whatsoever), I decided to chance it, so I cooked two and ate one for lunch. My husband is waiting to see if I get sick before eating the other.

[Sunshine]

I made some spagetti on January 5 this year and froze a couple of small sour cream containers full of a misture of noodles and sauce....
I am Sure it is still good(isnt it?), but It got me thinking, how long will it be good for?

[KarenS]

How long frozen stuff lasts just depends on a lot of factors. Every different food has a freezer shelf life, but it also depends on how it's packaged and how quickly it froze and so forth.

I'd say your containers should probably be fine as far as being safe. The problem with frozen food is rarely safety - it's taste and texture. If the containers weren't freezer containers with a tight seal, the contents may be crystalized or have freezer burn. The only way to tell really is to thaw one and taste it.

In general spaghetti sauce or pasta sauce will keep for 6 months in the freezer, but the noodles may get mushy when they're thawed and reheated.

Karen

[lawyerlee]

Everything I've been reading about freezing prepared meals suggests planning to eat the meal within about a month. But as Karen said, it is because after that time the food may not taste right, not because it would be unsafe to eat it.

[Sal03]

How long do you think apple butter in a jar stays good? I was sent a recipe for oatmeal apple peanut butter bars and it has apple butter in it. I actually have a jar of apple butter in my pantry that is probably a year old with no expiration date on it. do you think it is still good?

[Sal03]

I love the internet. I finally just googled shelf life apple butter. on average it looks to be 18 months to 2 years. :)

[jessesgirl]

Or when it starts molding! I've had apple butter in my fridge that molded if I didn't use it often enough.

[FEIrider]

Hi ladies-

I picked up some really yummy grilled veggie bruchetta at Trader Joes yesterday. Does anyone know how long it will keep in the fridge after opening? It doesn't say on the jar anywhere & I'm slightly neurotic about expiration dates.:o It's just grilled veggies packed in EVOO with some spices. TIA!

[KK812]

I am also anal about expiration dates! I found this website on trying to determine shelf life, I would say use it up within the next week if it's open.

http://www.ehow.com/how_134828_determine-shelf-life.html

[KarenS]

We're talking about a condiment you bought from the store, right, and not something you brought home from the restaurant? If it's in the bottle with oil ...you've probably got a couple of weeks at least. If the oil is covering all of the veggies, you've got longer than that. Oil is a preservative and as long as it covers everything, your roasted veggies will last months.

Karen

[FEIrider]

Thanks KarenS & KK! It is kinda like a condiment, not something from a restaurant. I didn't know oil was a perservative...learn something new everyday.

DH isn't the best veggie eater, so if I open this jar, I'm basically going to have to finish it myself. I wanted to know what timeframe I was looking at!;) Or maybe I can invite friends over soon & make a yummy appetizer with the leftovers!:D

[janu98]

I bought some fresh marinated chicken on friday the 2nd thinking i would make it for dinner on Sat, but we ended up going out. So on sunday i saw the the use by date on the chicken was Saturday the 3rd, but i baked the chicken anyways and will prob eat tonight for dinner.... Is this okay? Meaning the use by date was saturday and we will eat it for dinner tonight 6/5/06?? just wondering:cool:

[flygirl]

I'm not an expert, but if the chicken looked & smelled OK before you cooked it, I'm almost positive it's OK to eat now. The point is to cook it (and kill the bacteria) before it goes bad.

[janu98]

it looked and smelled fine to me just didnt want to throw away good chicken!

[Brandles]

Usually the stamp is the "sell by" date or the "guarenteed freshest" date. As long as it looked okay and (more importantly)--smelled okay--it should be fine.

[JamBray]

Funny you should post this as I was just asking DH to check on the cream cheese in the fridge to see if it was okay. The date on the bottom said 5/26, but he said it looked and smelled fine, so I'm going to use it, and I don't think your chicken is a problem either.

[LDS Angel 19]

With things like that, I don't think the dates are 'set in stone' so to speak. Just use your judgment. As long as things are stored/coocked properly. We keep our fridge so cold that we often drink milk a few days after the date on the carton.

[KarenS]

Yep. The "use by" or "sell by" dates are very conservative. They have to be to accomodate everyone who might use the food. My rule of thumb is that if it looks and smells ok, I'll use it.

I had to break DH of the habit of throwing things away the very minute they became "expired". I can't remember how many quarts of milk he emptied down the sink until I convinced him that milk didn't automatically go sour at 12:01 a.m. on the expiration date.

Karen

[sophiapb]

I had to break DH of the habit of throwing things away the very minute they became "expired". I can't remember how many quarts of milk he emptied down the sink until I convinced him that milk didn't automatically go sour at 12:01 a.m. on the expiration date.


My Dh as well. I had to keep stressing to him "That's the SELL by date. If stores can sell it until midnight of that date, do you think it's going to be bad the next day?" Drives me nuts! :confused:

[mb1197]

Yep. The "use by" or "sell by" dates are very conservative. They have to be to accomodate everyone who might use the food. My rule of thumb is that if it looks and smells ok, I'll use it.

I had to break DH of the habit of throwing things away the very minute they became "expired". I can't remember how many quarts of milk he emptied down the sink until I convinced him that milk didn't automatically go sour at 12:01 a.m. on the expiration date.

Karen
My DH actually had to break me of this habit. He's a chef and never relies on those dates, but for years I couldn't get past them. Now I don't look at the date I simply have him smell it first. :)

[shopaholic]

We are crazy about these dates too. Sometimes I never know. Right now we have a few yogurts with "May 29-31" on them...they should be OK...right??

Milk, however, I will not TOUCH after the date. Actually I won't even drink it a day or 2 before the sell by date. It really does taste/smell funky to me.

[Camdynlyn]

I'm a "if it's past the date don't eat it" girl but I have pork chops in my fridge that say "Sell by June 3, 2006." Are they okay to cook tonight??

[t3h_wookiee]

Cream cheese is fine for quite a while after the date-just stir it up to get the water mixed back in. :)

I use the dates as a general guideline on food, but I don't rely on them. DH always has, but that's because he quite honestly can not tell if food has gone bad unless it's a visible sign. His taste buds are a bit on the not working side. ;) He's drank sour milk more times than he cares to admit. lol

[paiger]

We are crazy about these dates too. Sometimes I never know. Right now we have a few yogurts with "May 29-31" on them...they should be OK...right??


I never go by the dates w/ yogurt. If they're in the fridge never been opened, there is really no way for it to go bad. If you open it, and it looks curdled, I wouldn't eat it. But, otherwise, I've eaten yogurt that was MONTHS past the date on the side.

[shopaholic]

I never go by the dates w/ yogurt. If they're in the fridge never been opened, there is really no way for it to go bad. If you open it, and it looks curdled, I wouldn't eat it. But, otherwise, I've eaten yogurt that was MONTHS past the date on the side.
really? Months? I just thought because it was dairy it could go bad within a week or so. I just threw one out that had May 17th on it.

[paiger]

really? Months? I just thought because it was dairy it could go bad within a week or so. I just threw one out that had May 17th on it.

I've never had a problem. From what my mom always said (we were a cut the mold off the bread kind of family), it was fine unless it had been opened previously. It makes since to me from a chemical stand point b/c most of the time with dairy it is the induction of air (and the things floating in the air) that causes the chemical reactions that produce the mold and stuff. But, I also don't have a problem with milk past the date. I just pour a little in a cup and smell it (as sometimes around the spout can spoil w/o the milk being spoiled) to see if it's okay to drink.

The plain vanilla yogurt that I buy in the big containers lasts longer than the sell buy date. I eat it unless it's molded. Cottage cheese is the same way, too. I'm amazed at how long it lasts opened past the sell by date.

[KarenS]

From what my mom always said (we were a cut the mold off the bread kind of family),Heh. My dad used to buy huge hunks of cheese and keep them forever. He'd cut the mold off the edges and say "This is a perfectly good piece of cheese!"

Maybe the reason I don't get sick from food is that my family built up my immune system when I was a kid! :D

Karen

[Missy2U]

Unfortunately, I have the type of husband that thinks things last forever. And I mean forever forever. I've tried to explain to him that when the food jumps out of the fridge on it's own it isn't because it's "fresh"! His mom is just as bad - she emptied her pantry one summer and gave us some boxes of Kraft Macaroni and Cheese - the kind with the packet of sauce mix? It had gone bad. No kidding - the orange sauce mix was BAD! Seriously rancid glow in the dark orange bad! That stuff is supposed to have the shelf life of plutonium!!

[pixielou]

Unfortunately, I have the type of husband that thinks things last forever.

i married the same type of guy. when we got married in 2003 and i moved into his apartment, i kid you not, i was throwing away food that had expiration dates of 1999 on it! i'm all for letting things go a bit beyond there expiration date, but 4 years?????

~pixie

[shopaholic]

i married the same type of guy. when we got married in 2003 and i moved into his apartment, i kid you not, i was throwing away food that had expiration dates of 1999 on it! i'm all for letting things go a bit beyond there expiration date, but 4 years?????

~pixie

lol, that is bad. I try to periodically go through my stuff and purge things that are looking nasty. I just recently threw out a jar of applesauce. I guess at the time I didn't notice it said "eat within 10 days of opening". I think we had the thing for a good 6 months or more. There was black crap growing inside....pure nasty.

[jarm]

is meat in the freezer good for? I have a london broil that's been in the freezer since January. I thought it was newer than that. I'm in the process of defrosting it. Do you think it's still good?

TIA!

[Katy]

Here's some FDA info (http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/fttstore.html) for you. Also remember it depends on how you've packaged it. Store packaged meats will get freezer burn a lot faster than meat in a zippie, which will burn faster than meats packaged using a vacuum sealer.

[working_mom]

I'll usually use something from a freezer that isn't opened and closed often for up to one year....

[Aug2002Bride]

Do you typically try to cook or use the food before it gets to this date or how long after would you use the product??

For example...I have a whole chicken I bought last week and it says sell by "Sept 2" and DH refuses to eat it if I cook it tonight for dinner...Would you eat it??

He will do the same thing with milk and eggs also...

Whats your typical rule of thumb with the sell by date...

[QueenDillyDally]

No, I don't eat/cook anything that is after the sell by date (unless of course it has been frozen immediately after purchasing).

[flygirl]

There was a thread about this awhile back and of course I'm having trouble finding it. :rolleyes:

First of all, "sell by" and "expiration date" are two very different things. Almost all "sell by" foods are still safe well after the date printed. Dairy foods, for example, as long as they're properly refrigerated. Even most meats are good for a few days after "sell by" date. The key is to go by sight & smell more than anything.

"Expires" means just that, the food is expired, or else the liklihood of it being bad is high enough not to risk it.

[Aug2002Bride]

Thanks!


I did search for other threads also but I must not of used the correct key words if there was another thread.

[lbs27]

I just did a Google search for this very topic this morning. I have milk that has a sell by of Sept 3rd and I only needed a shot for coffee and didn't want to have to go out. The PP is definitely right about the difference between sell by and expiration, though sometimes I think it's hard to know which is which. For example, milk is always the sell by date, and it's good for 5-7 days after it if it's been properly stored. I think meat is a little trickier, I find that if I use something on its sell by date, it's already starting to smell funky (if having only been refrigerated). One thing I did read on multiple sites is that you should let your nose be your guide. :D

[eponymous]

If something is at or a bit beyond its sell-by date, I smell it, look at it, and use more common sense than I would if the sell-by date was a week in the future. Haven't given myself food poisoning yet... or DH. :)

[NicoleWisconsin]

My aunt had a similar thing happen with chicken and she called the 800 number on the package (it was Tyson) and they told her that it had to be used or frozen by that date or it was no good... and I think I've read that on most chicken. I'm very leary of meat/dairy/eggs. Dry goods/canned goods, not so much.

[Etoile]

I play it kind of fast and loose with the sell-by and the expiration date--maybe too much so but I've never gotten sick. I just smell, look and touch to make sure it seems good.

[PG-rated]

My aunt had a similar thing happen with chicken and she called the 800 number on the package (it was Tyson) and they told her that it had to be used or frozen by that date or it was no good... and I think I've read that on most chicken. I'm very leary of meat/dairy/eggs. Dry goods/canned goods, not so much.
I think companies say that just to cover themselves, since they have no idea how well something's been stored. They don't want you coming back and suing them if the chicken was obviously bad but you cooked it anyway because they said it would be OK after the sell-by date.

I have no problem using raw meat 48 hours after the sell-by date, as long as it looks and smells OK. I generally won't go longer than that, though (except for pre-cooked meat, since I find their sell-by dates are usually very conservative).

[MichelleRenee]

I guess the title says it all. I get nervous eating leftovers if it has been more than one day since they were made. Assuming the food is stored properly, how long is it really good for in the fridge?

[vjel]

I've always heard 3-4 days. I usually won't eat it if it's been 3 days.

[ignutzz]

It depends on what kind of food I'm storing. Meat: 3-5 days Sauces: 7-10 days same goes for rice or other vegetarian dishes.

Anything with cream, cheese, egg etc will usually keep less than a straight veggie and/or pasta dish.

[PG-rated]

I'll keep meat up to 5-6 days, but I always nuke it until it's HOT all the way through before eating. Same with egg dishes. Anything else I'll keep up to a week, provided it looks/smells good.

[laura]

It really depends on what it is. I don't generally eat leftovers, but I'll feed them to my husband as long as they look/smell okay. ;) I would say we use things up definitely in less than week, though. There are some things, like homemade marinara sauce, etc that have been cooked but I don't consider "leftovers" as they will be used for a different purpose later and I will stretch things like that to about a week, maybe 7-9 days - but still, if it looks/smells 'off', then I will just toss it and order pizza.

[FEIrider]

Hi ladies-

I put a gallon of milk in our fridge in the garage & with the super-cold snap we're having, it's now frozen solid. Will it be OK to drink once it thaws out? It's not expired yet. I'm very neurotic when it comes to food. I'd rather throw something out than risk it, KWIM? However, I also don't want to be wasteful if it will be just fine when it thaws. TIA! :)

[myshel]

I'm not sure about it being safe to drink, but I will tell you that from experience, it may not taste so great. This happened a few times growing up (with both 1% and skim milk) and because the water separates from the cream (if you get what I'm saying), the taste was a bit on the icky side.

If it were me, I'd probably throw it out.

[silvergrey]

I think it'll be fine. If I see milk on a really good sale, I buy a lot and freeze it for later. I've read that most dairy products do fine when frozen. (Except block cheese gets crumbly and sour cream just gets icky.)

[FEIrider]

Thanks myshel & silvergrey. Since the concern is just taste & not spoilage, I think I'll let it thaw out & make DH try it! ;) He's the one who drinks 3 gallons a week!

[looch]

When I was a kid, we'd get milk from Stew Leonard's Dairy. The milk cartons said that it was safe to freeze milk, and we did it all the time, especially during the years of the milk shortage.

[apoppy]

I freeze milk all of the time and I've never had a problem. If you are concerned about the taste, just give it a good shake after it has thawed.

[ladybug777]

We freeze milk all the time. It will be fine.

[AmandaLeigh]

This happens to milk in my fridge all the time (the apartment complex really needs to replace it, but that's a whole other story.) Just let it thaw all the way. It will separate a little bit because cold affects the homogenization process. All you have to do to fix this is give the milk a quick shake befor pouring it out of the bottle/

[acceptablerisk]

from what i understand, it's okay to freeze and thaw milk once, but you wouldn't want to refreeze it.

[doublej]

I took some pork chops out of the freezer on Tuesday and I was wondering how long I have until they go bad or if they have already gone bad. Anyone know?

[camberne]

Since they were defrosting in the refrigerator, I would think they would still be perfectly fine... but I always use the "smell test". If they don't smell fresh, I don't cook them!

[aprilshowers]

Hi all, this is my first post outside of the ATF forum so hopefully this is the right place to post my question.

My crockpot book says not to let food be at room temp for more than 2 hours. I put my meal together at 8 this morning, intending to turn it on at 10. Of course, I forgot. I just turned it on at 11 and it will cook until 5 tonight. Is that okay??? It's vegetarian, just a bunch of veggies, a little bit of flour, broth, seasoning, etc. If it was just DH and I I wouldn't have a problem with taking the risk but I'm worried about my 13 month old daughter. Any thoughts?

TIA!

[ignutzz]

If you put the meal together at 8, it didn't get up to room temperature until later. Given that it's just veggies, I wouldn't be worried about it at all.

[1MegMeg]

You're definitely fine, especially since there is no meat and no dairy! Also, I learned in my graduate public health classes that food shouldn't be left at room tempurature for longer than 4 hours.

What are you making the in crockpot?! It sounds good!! :)

[jennylou]

You're fine, I think. :)

[heather1029]

As long as the broth is vegetarian too, you should be fine.

[aprilshowers]

Thanks everyone! Yes, the broth is veggie too. I am feeling much better now :)

Meg, it is a veggie potpie with biscuit crust. I haven't tried the crust on top yet so I am excited to see how it turns out. It is from "Fresh from the Vegetarian Slow Cooker" which is a great book.

[young lioness]

I need to clean out our big chest freezer in the basement. In this thread I found the information for how long meat/chicken is good for.

But what about things like frozen fruit/veggies, salsas/sauces, or frozen dinners like Lean Cuisines? In the case of veggies does store bought vs. from the garden/packaged in freezer bags make a difference in how long they keep? (We have some of both.)

[QueenDillyDally]

IMO, I would keep those items for 6 months. Obviously, somethings may be freezer burned depending upon how much water content is in them but they should be safe to eat. I would also tend to think that the store bought items would last a lot longer than the home packaged as the store bought usually has preservatives added.
I usually check out what the product looks like and if the food is fairly crystalized, I do not eat it (quality reasons not safety).

[Tonysweetie]

I'm making a cake for a dinner get together tonight and I just noticed my eggs are expired by a few months. They expired back in February. Do I need to throw them out? I've already been to the store once today to get the cake mix and everything and I really don't want to have to load the baby again to go get eggs. My dinner party is tonight at 5:30 please tell me I can use these eggs! They do not smell bad or look funny. TIA!

[diam124]

If it were a month or less I would use them, but since Feb....I would toss them. (But I am admittedly paranoid about following expiration dates. Eggs are actually one of the few things that I will use after the posted date).

[mel7dog]

A few months :eek: yeah, I would toss those things

[diam124]

Look at it this way - I would much rather go through the extra hassle of going back to the store than worry about any guests getting sick from the eggs.

Last summer we had a small barbeque with friends and I got food poisoning from the hot dogs. The only other person who ate a hotdog was our friend's 3 year old daughter, and all night I wanted to call them to see if she got sick too. I was picturing these nightmare scenarios. I was soooo relieved when I found out she was fine.

[Tonysweetie]

Crud! Thanks girls. What really sucks is I already had the cake mixed when I realized it. I do not have time to run to the store and get more eggs and get the cake finished before we leave at 5. it's already 2;30 now. I guess we'll stop at the grocery store on the way and buy a pie. :rolleyes:

[Tonysweetie]

Last summer we had a small barbeque with friends and I got food poisoning from the hot dogs. The only other person who ate a hotdog was our friend's 3 year old daughter, and all night I wanted to call them to see if she got sick too. I was picturing these nightmare scenarios. I was soooo relieved when I found out she was fine.


Ok, that really convinced me to throw out the eggs and the cake. I would feel awful if everyone got sick.

[bookworm]

I thought eggs smelled bad if they were bad. Can they be rotten without that awful smell?

[shopaholic]

wow, I always throw out eggs if they are a week or so expired. Are they OK to still eat?

[tlew12778]

To tell if eggs are fresh you put them in a bowl of water. If they lay down sideways, they are fresh. If they stand up on end, they are ok to eat but not super fresh. If they float, they are rotten.

[Aug2002Bride]

Someone told me once to shake them...if you can feel the inside shaking around than they are bad....if they are good you shouldnt feel anything inside...

Take it for what its worth...I have no idea if that is true or not.

[EJH]

Um. Ew!

They hit their sell by date and they're in the trash at my house.

[SunnyAB]

If you havent thrown the cake mix out yet - you might want to try these substitutes

2 tbsp corn starch = 1 egg
2 tbsp arrowroot flour = 1 egg
2 tbsp potato starch = 1 egg
1 heaping tbsp soy powder + 2 tbsp water = 1 egg
1 tbsp soy milk powder + 1 tbsp cornstarch + 2 tbsp water = 1 egg.
1 banana = 1 egg in cakes
2 tbsp applesauce = 1 egg

I havent tried this, but I think I would try applesauce or a banana or the cornstarch.

Good luck!

[Ericka_Jarett]

Definately need to toss those eggs, if it was a week that would be one thing, but most eggs are given from a show I had seen a 6 week shelf life.

You can always substitute applesauce for eggs.

[silvergrey]

To tell if eggs are fresh you put them in a bowl of water. If they lay down sideways, they are fresh. If they stand up on end, they are ok to eat but not super fresh. If they float, they are rotten.

That's exactly what I do. If they float, I toss 'em. As long as the shells are unbroken and they were stored in the fridge, eggs are good several weeks past the expiration date.