Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince - SPOILERS [Archive]

strwbrygirl

07-16-2005, 08:29 PM

My guess for R.A.B is Sirius' brother, Regulus. I know that he's supposedly dead, but he was mentioned semi-randomly several times near the end of the book. I was really mad when I read that the item that led to Dumbledore's death was not a Horcrux- that someone else had already gotten to it!

I wasn't really ready for Dumbledore to die... I'd heard the spoilers awhile back, but still.... that being said, do you think that instead of begging Snape for his life, he was actually asking to be killed up in the Tower (because he was in pain, ready to go, wanted to save his student Malfoy from killing someone, etc)? I've been thinking about that in the last hour or so. I'm still not sure what I think about Snape- because I think he was sort of bluffed/talked into the Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa, and I still want Dumbledore to be right about him, even though all evidence points to the contrary.

I thought that all of the hormonal stuff (Ron getting annoyed with Hermoione and hooking up with Lavender, Ron and Hermione getting together, Dean & Ginny, Harry's nervousness, and then Harry & Ginny) was really well done... a little more than I would really prefer in the storyline, but accurate as far as how "important" it is to that age group, I thought. I think that Ron and Hermione WILL get together, and I definitely feel like Harry and Ginny will be back together in the future- and I loved the casualness that they finally had when they were studying in the common room- Ginny just leaning against his legs, etc.

strwbrygirl

07-16-2005, 08:36 PM

Hit post too soon there...

I felt like the "Invisibility Cabinet"- one at Hogwarts and one at Bourgin & Burkes was a bit of a cop-out and not really well explained as a method for Malfoy bringing Death Eaters into Hogwarts. If the Hogwarts cabinet was in the Room of Requirement, how did it get there? Was it already there, and if so, then was the broken one at Bourgin & Burkes?

I did like the clarification of the "underage wizard on vacation" thing (can't refer to my book to see what it's actually called, as DH is currently reading!)- I've been wondering how Fred & George were working on their "Weasley's Wizard Wheezes" over the vacation at the beginning of Goblet of Fire if underage wizards can't do magic at home. Makes sense that the Ministry can only detect where magic happens, not necessarily who performed the spell, and that's the loophole... but I want to know why they can't tell who performed the spell! (artistic license, no doubt).

katmg

07-16-2005, 08:50 PM

Yes, I suppose at some point it had to be Dumbledore's time to go. It just seemed too soon. I need to reread the whole chapter of going to get the horcrux. I felt like I was reading it too fast to really understand what was happening with the goblet and the potion.

I would love to know more about why Dumbledore trusted Snape. I really thought this book would go into that more. We did get a bit of Snape's history though which was nice to know.

Did anyone else think in the beginning that perhaps Dumbledore was under the Imperius Curse? It just seemed like he was fairly harsh with Harry at times and they didn't seem to have the same interactions that they did in previous books.

I did think the hormonal/teenage love angst was very well written. I'm so glad that Ginny and Harry dated, kind of a bummer that he broke up with her at the end to protect her. Definitely waiting for the Ron/Hermione hook-up.

I don't know about Harry not going back to Hogwarts. It seems like he has to. There are 7 years of schooling at Hogwarts and 7 books in the series. It would just seem wrong to not have the main location be Hogwarts. I guess Harry actually could go live at 12 Grimmauld Place since he inherited it.

I always wondered about the under-age magic in the summer rule. It always seemed odd that when they were helping the Order out by cleaning up the house that they could use magic. I also wondered about what happened to under-age wizards before they went to school. Plus, how could you practice over the summer if you couldn't perform magic. Anyway, glad that was cleared up a bit.

In a way, I'm glad that Snape was actually bad. Sort of confirms Harry's instincts about him.

Oh and did anyone else notice a number of typo type problems? Especially at the beginning of the book?

Wrighty26

07-16-2005, 08:51 PM

Ohh-- good call on Regulus. I didn't even think of him... they did mention him SEVERAL times throughout the book.

I figured it would be Dumbledore too, how sad, yet-IMO- so necessary for the conclusion of the series.

I didn't read any of the spoilers for the book because I wanted to be suprised, but I wasn't shocked to find out that Snape is the "Half-Blood Prince". What I cannot believe is that Snape was the one to kill Dumbledore. I am still in shock! Yes, I've always distrusted his character, but not to the point that he would go that far. Although, I guess if Malfoy failed, he would have the option of fulfilling it, or dying. I wonder if there is reason behind why Snape used the Avada Kedavra curse--or just that it would be quick and easy?

I think Harry will be back at Hogwarts, but not necessarily to learn. I think JK Rowling did a great job with setting up the final book which I think will involve finding the remaining Horcruxes and finishing off Voldemort-- and finding out about his family.

Oh, and can we talk about the Horcruxes-- where the HECK does she think of these things??? I was totally blow away with that chapter--when D is explaining to Harry his theory on the 7 pieces of V's soul. Amazingly creative stuff-- which still managed to make sense-- and tie all of the books together.

Loved the "romance"--Cannot wait until Hermione and Ron confess their love to each other!

So, did you guys like this one better than the 5th one? I definitely did...Even though I found this death far sadder, the overall tone of the book was lighter (make sense?). I also found myself laughing aloud at some points. :D

Wrighty26

07-16-2005, 08:57 PM

Did anyone else think in the beginning that perhaps Dumbledore was under the Imperius Curse? It just seemed like he was fairly harsh with Harry at times and they didn't seem to have the same interactions that they did in previous books.

Yes! I kept thinking-- how do we know that this is really Dumbledore. Especially with him leaving Hogwarts all the time.

strwbrygirl

07-16-2005, 09:20 PM

Oh and did anyone else notice a number of typo type problems? Especially at the beginning of the book?

I did too- even mentioned to DH that I thought that the editor REALLY fell down on that part of the job. I know I'm a spelling geek, but errors really pull me out of the story.

Also: Lupin and Tonks!! I totally did not see that coming- and I'm glad that she wasn't pining for Bill. The necklace that Ron got for Christmas from Lavender totally cracked me up- it seemed very representative of that age group to me, and I laughed out loud when Ron admitted that he wasn't sure how Lavender had gotten the impression that he might wear such a thing because they were too busy snogging to have actual conversations. :)

I missed Hagrid in this book... though there was so much other action, I think that it was a good decision by JKR. Did anyone else find it odd that there was no follow-up to Slughorn taking the venom from Aragog before she was buried? (Like getting caught dealing the venom or the unicorn tail hairs on the black market?) I felt like there were a lot of loose ends that were casually dropped into this book so that she can write the final book in many different directions... I like that it's not entirely predictable. :)

Snape as the H-BP: I thought that was a bit dodgy- did Hermione read 30 years worth of Daily Prophets or what? I know that Snape obviously knew that Harry had his book (as was explained in the end), but... I sort of felt that it was a bit farfetched that Hermione actually figured out Snape's mum's name, and then connected all of that. She's a smart cookie, but still....maybe they had an index of all of the articles or something, I guess. Thoughts?

I was thrown by the Madam Rosemerta bit- anyone else? I liked all of the Voldemort background, but I'm wondering when we're going to get any information about Harry's family... maybe she's saving that for last. Also, was anyone disappointed in how little Neville showed up in this book? I guess I just thought that he'd have a bigger part going forward after the end of OotP and the prophecy.

tlew12778

07-17-2005, 03:57 AM

So much to comment on! OK I read the British version and there were not that many typos in it. I found one actually. I did notice a couple inconsistencies like why can Fleur say "with" but she must say "togezzer"?

Also, random question, but why, when watching a memory in a pensieve, does the watcher see it from a thrid person POV? If it's the memory of someone then they should see it from that person's point of view, no?

Book stuff:

Regulus - That's FANTASTIC! I couldn't think of who it might be. I was about to start re-reading to go over names. It fits perfectly. The note does not say that RAB is still alive... only that he was alive when he stole the necklace and that he was planning on destroying it. Didn't he attempt to leave the Death Eaters? And he was killed 2 days later? Or am I mixing him up with someone else? (Again, need to re-read!). That would be a good reason why they were so keen on finding him so quickly.

do you think that instead of begging Snape for his life, he was actually asking to be killed up in the Tower (because he was in pain, ready to go, wanted to save his student Malfoy from killing someone, etc)? I was wondering about this. I tend to think that Snape is still a death eater, but perhaps AD told him to keep his cover even at the expense of AD's life. Maybe it was more important to have someone on the inside... and if he did not kill AD, then he would have died himself due to his unbreakable vow with Narcissa.

The Vanishing Cabinet was placed in the Room of Requirement after Montague or some other Slytherin got stuck in it in a previous year. I think the teachers put it there for safe-keeping.

I like the clarification on the summer wizarding thing as well, but they CAN figure out who performed a spell by studying the wand. So that's an inconsistency in the story.

What makes you think AD was under the Imperius curse? He was harsh at times, but who isn't with a 16 y.o.? AD just wanted to protect Harry I think. Had he been under the imperius curse, he probably would have done more dark things like used legilimens to explore and use Harry's connection to Voldemort. Or he could have just tuned HP into Voldy... Or do you mean that he is using Polyjuice Potion and that he is really someone else? I don't think this is the case bc there would have been ways of detecting it (even the sneakoscopes would have gone off and those are pretty basic). Plus his portrait is now up in the headmaster's office.

I love all the Latin in the book! I kept asking FH was different roots meant last night. I still cannot figure out where Horcrux comes from. I am dieing to check out the HP Lexicon on it but I doubt the new words will be in there yet. JKR has taken A LOT of stuff from LOTR. A LOT. I can't think how this would directly relate but it's kind of like how Saurun doesn't die easily and the one ring needs to be detroyed in the end to destroy Sauron.

One thing I didn't get -- Harry said the HBP could not be his dad or one of the marauders bc the book was published 50 years ago and that was before his dad's time. So was Snape using his mom's old book?

I think that Neville will play a more important role in book 7. I also think that Ron and Hermione will hook up at some point. And I think that Ginny and Harry will also end up together (but maybe not until the end of book 7 assuming Harry is still alive).

ETA: Mugglenet is still down but the Lexicon Forums (http://wc6.worldcrossing.com/webx?1@@.1ddf35b0) are up and running with chapter by chapter posts for HBP.

Wrighty26

07-17-2005, 06:05 AM

Regulus - That's FANTASTIC! I couldn't think of who it might be. I was about to start re-reading to go over names. It fits perfectly. The note does not say that RAB is still alive... only that he was alive when he stole the necklace and that he was planning on destroying it. Didn't he attempt to leave the Death Eaters? And he was killed 2 days later? Or am I mixing him up with someone else? (Again, need to re-read!). That would be a good reason why they were so keen on finding him so quickly.

What makes you think AD was under the Imperius curse? He was harsh at times, but who isn't with a 16 y.o.? AD just wanted to protect Harry I think. Had he been under the imperius curse, he probably would have done more dark things like used legilimens to explore and use Harry's connection to Voldemort. Or he could have just tuned HP into Voldy... Or do you mean that he is using Polyjuice Potion and that he is really someone else? I don't think this is the case bc there would have been ways of detecting it (even the sneakoscopes would have gone off and those are pretty basic). Plus his portrait is now up in the headmaster's office.

One thing I didn't get -- Harry said the HBP could not be his dad or one of the marauders bc the book was published 50 years ago and that was before his dad's time. So was Snape using his mom's old book?

Yes, that was Regulus who was killed 2 days after leaving the death eaters. I remember reading that line in reference to Karakoff--who they had just found dead-- and everyone was amazed that he lasted that long.

As for Dumbledore... I guess I just thought it was odd that he would come pick up Harry himself from the Dursely's-- especially since everyone else was concerned about going out to public places. Although, we're talking about Dumbledore here!!

As for the book-- yes, I think it was said at the end (maybe by Snape?? Must go back and reread!) that the book belonged to his mother.

As for Horcrux-- wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horcrux) is also already on top of it's Harry Potter stuff!!

ETA: I wonder what the difference's are in the UK/US version this time! Obviously when the Sorcerer's Stone is referred to it's different-- but I wounder if there's anything else ??!!

katmg

07-17-2005, 07:00 AM

It wasn't that DD was harsh with Harry. I think it was how he kept boasting about his superior intelligence and abilities. Seemed very un-DD like. Maybe it's just the way I was reading it.

I have loved the Latin in the books from the very beginning. It gives such great clues as to what the true nature of a spell is or what type of person a character is.

katmg

07-17-2005, 07:02 AM

Oh, one more thing. I loved Harry's reactions while at the funeral - wanting to laugh at things but feeling guilty, feeling sad, crying. Such completely normal things that someone feels at a funeral - especially when he hasn't ever been to one.

eli1126

07-17-2005, 07:03 AM

All of you are so astute to have picked all this stuff up! I didn't even think Regulus, but that would be perfect! Snape as the HBP?! I am so sad! I kept believeing that if Dumbledore trusted him then he would surprise us and come the rescue at some point. I am still holding out hope....maybe Pollyanna of me! I was also sad when Harry at the end said "Even if Hogwarts opens, I'm not coming back" But I also knew he wouldn't be alone with Ron and Hermione by his side. I also think if he survives he should hook up with Ginny! I also think Ron and Hermione, if they survive, will finally get together. I also see Neville playing a larger role in the 7th. Did anyone notice how McGonagall steered him in the direction he enjoyed rather than where his grandmother wanted him to go saying "it's about time she appreciates the grandson she has, rather than the one she wants" or something along those lines. I can't help, but think that there has to be something to that, Neville, honing his strengths. And he was with Luna, brave at the end fighting the Death Eaters. So he is brave of heart as well :) Our little Neville! I didn't think anything of Dumbledore coming to get Harry at Privet Drive. In light of what was going on, I thought it stressed the danger of the situation at hand?? I am so bad, being part English major, I was so excited to be reading, I didn't notice the mistakes. When I go back tomorrow to re-read :p I'll look!

Beth

kdotp

07-17-2005, 07:40 AM

I don't think Hogwarts will be the main setting of book 7 -- at least not in the day-to-day lives of students it has been in the other books.

I think Dumbledore felt somewhat guilty for "ignoring" (trying to protect) Harry in the OotP that he tried to make up for it bigtime in HBP. As he said, he's usually right about things, but when he makes mistakes, they're big mistakes.

I don't know if I buy the whole Imperious Curse theory, you'd think Dumbledore would be able to deflect it or something, seeing as he is (was) the most powerful wizard in the world. I could be wrong, though.

I find it curious that Snape was allowed to be a Death Eater even though he's half-blood. Weren't they almost all Pure-Bloods? What did he have to do to show his loyalty?

So many things will be answered in the seventh book. I don't want to have to wait 2-3 years for it! Though that will give me plenty of time to read and re-read and re-re-read the others. :)

eli1126

07-17-2005, 07:57 AM

When does the seventh come out?!

kdotp: I could be wrong, but I thought that there was something of an explaination, with someone, think it was Harry, but can't remember saying "Most are half bloods, but play up the pure blood relation" I think it was something like that???

Beth

SaphirimalMei

07-17-2005, 08:29 AM

Any guesses as to why Dumbledore still insisted on trusting Snape so much right to the end? Will something else come of that? Maybe he had Snape make an Unbreakable Vow as well? That would have made him doomed either way he acted. I wonder if two conflicting Unbreakable Vows cancel eachother out? Hmmmm...I'm still mulling this one over.

Re: Summer Magic Use by Fred & George
Dumbledore was explaining this when Harry questions Young Voldemort's use of magic to kill the Riddles with Morfin's wand. Dumbledore said that as long as an of-age wizard was known to live there there was no way to distinguish from afar if the magic user in the home was or was not of-age. That they trusted parents to manage their children while in the home. This would explain how F & G made such profitable use of their summers ;)

Re: R.A.B.
I totally agree that it stands for Regulus Black.

re: Snape accepted as a death eater even though 1/2 blood
Voldemort too is a half-blood owing to his muggle father...so is Snape. I never got the impression that the Death Eaters were EXCLUSIVELY pure blood. Only that more pure-bloods are more full of themselves as wizards and were disenchanted with the muggle loving of the ministry, etc. Since Voldemort absolutely hates the muggle part of himself since his father abandoned him, his hatred of muggles would have easily attracted the pure-bloods who felt the same.

kdotp

07-17-2005, 08:45 AM

Thanks for the ideas, ladies. I've read so many different HP fansites lately, I think I'm confusing what I've been reading on the sites with what I've read in the books.

I guess that just means I'll have to re-read the series again to get my facts straight. ;)

rebeccasmommy

07-17-2005, 08:46 AM

I wouldnt' have even thought of Regulus Black for R.A.B. Man, you guys are quick!

I read it so quickly yesterday that now I have to go back and reread. Thoughts:

I agree that the angst over the opposite sex throughout the book was very well done. She nailed it!

I didn't catch the typos at the beginning until I reread them last night.

I don't think Dumbledore was under Imperius at the beginning - I think he might have been distracted by what was going on and concerned for Harry, but I don't think it was Imperius.

Did anyone catch how interested Dursley seemed to be at the beginning when Dumbledore told them about Sirius being dead? He was quite interested in that, I think. I wonder how that will play out in 7.

I cried through the last three chapters of the book, which killed my hubby (I got to read it first!!). I like the idea that someone (sorry - forgot who!) posted that Dumbledore might have been in so much pain that he was asking Snape to kill him, or to keep Malfoy from doing it, but I just can't believe, after all that Dumbledore did to help him, that Snape really was still bad. I'm sure she'll have a nice shock for us in #7 about that, but at this point, who would trust Snape, you know?

MUST GO REREAD!!

bookworm

07-17-2005, 09:20 AM

Good call on R.A.B. being Regulus Black. The real horcrux may even be at Grimmauld Place. Maybe Kreacher knows where it is?

I had a feeling this was the end of Dumbledore, but I still cried. A lot.

I'm inclined to believe Snape was acting on Dumbledore's orders to kill him. DD seemed pretty ready to sacrifice himself to the cause. I'm curious if he'd have Snape kill him to keep Snape's cover, or to somehow save Malfoy.

I'm going to have to start re-reading it now :). The first read is for plot, the 2nd for nuance.

tlew12778

07-17-2005, 10:04 AM

The locket horcrux
I think this WAS at Grimmauld Place. I think Kreetcher had it when he started stealing stuff to prevent Sirius from throwing it out. I think this is in the book... I need to go back and read that part, but I think they mention a locket when Hermione goes to leave a blanket for his xmas present or else when Harry talks to Sirius in there. I think that Mundugus STOLE the locket when he raided Grimmauld Pl. I don't know who has it now that Mundugus got arrested (he got arrested right?). He might have flogged it (hope not! but it wouldn't surprise me since that's his thing).

The Heir of Griffindor
Who do you all think the Heir is? I thought it would be mentioned in this book but I guess not. I assume it will play a large role in Book 7 as I think the sword will come into play. I do not think the sword is the horcrux, but I think it will play a key role in Voldemort's end.

The Imperius Curse
I'm still not buying it. Dumdledore would have been able to throw it off. If Harry can throw it off, Dumbledore most certainly would have.

Is DD dead?
I think he is (mainly bc I think that JKR wants children to learn about and deal with death and not be given the false hope that people can return to life)... but then I got to thinking about the pheonix that rises from the white flames as the tomb appears. I assumed this was Fawks related but now I wonder is this is DD related... Regardless, DD can still communicate through his portraits.

Snape
I'm still really out on this one... like I said before, I think he is evil but that doesn't necessarily mean he is a death eater I guess. He's just dark overall. I am really starting to think that he sacrificed himself (he split his soul when he killed DD) in order to save Draco... the ultimate teacher looking out for his students, you know? He also prevents Harry from using an unforgiveable curse. Snape had plenty of time to either do Harry in or kidnap him but he didn't... I wonder why... I think that when DD begged "Severus, please..." he was asking Severus to kill him and save Draco as well as himself (since he would have died due to the unbreakable vow or at Voldemort's hand). I think that is why Snape screamed at Harry that he was not a coward, bc it took all his courage to kill DD.

The Dursleys
I think they were just interersted in Sirius' death bc they have NO CLUE that Harry is loaded. Now they know he owns at least a house and its contents. I don't really think there are any illicit intentions in their interest. I do think that Petunia's knowledge of the wizarding world and her relationship with DD will be better explained in book 7.

Slytherin House
I think they would not take a muggle-born wizard or witch. Half-Bloods are ok but they should basically hate muggles and muggle-born witches & wizards.

eli1126

07-17-2005, 10:31 AM

Wrighty26

07-17-2005, 10:54 AM

tlew12778 You just gave me so much food for thought! I just read the book yesterday and I forgot Snape stopped Harry from using the unforgivable curse. I hope you all are right about DD asking to be killed, I just have to believe that Snape isn't bad, I can't explain it. I don't think that DD will come back from the dead, I think Harry needs to stand alone.

Beth

I feel the same way about Snape. I cannot explain it.

I do however think that Snape was screaming, "I'M NOT A COWARD" to Harry because that's what James used to call him.

I also don't think DD will be coming back-- in any form. I think that he expected this-- actually, I think he KNEW about Snape/Malfoy. I think this is also way he was so forthcoming with Harry, why is was SO important that Harry get the memory from Slughorn, and why it was so necessary for Harry to go with him to get the (fake) Horcrux.

Oh- and with DD and the imperius curse-- I don't think he was under the curse now, after finishing the book-- that was just my initial instinct.

I swear, I've forgotten half the book already-- and I just read it!!

ButterflyJen

07-17-2005, 11:20 AM

OK, now that I've stopped crying...for now, at least...:(

RAB = Regulus Black, that's brilliant! Has to be him.

Damn Snape. Damn him. Chapter Two really made me wonder if he wasn't playing Dumbledore - guess he was, huh? But not letting Harry use Unforgivable Curses - hmmm, that is an interesting twist.

Harry and Ginny - nice. I hope they do wind up back together at the end of Book 7. I like the Pollyanna endings. ;) And Ron and Hermione will, too, I'm sure.

I had a feeling it was Dumbledore. As soon as someone (sorry, can't remember who) posted that in the last thread, it made sense. Harry does have to do this alone, Dumbledore can't help him. And how else would Dumbledore stay out of it, unless he was dead? Didn't stop me from bawling like a baby, though. :(

And WOW, JKR is brilliant. All this story and spreading it out through seven books....man, how does she do it? Reading the part about the horcruxes and the diary - I was still taking in the story, but a separate part of me was totally impressed. Wow.

maxandmolly

07-17-2005, 12:30 PM

My first thought at RAB was Sirius' brother, and it makes total sense that the locket may be at Grimmauld Place. I sort of had a problem with that whole chapter- it seemed like it was way too easy to get to where the locket was hidden in the lake.
I hadn't read any spoilers or speculation, so I had no idea someone was going to die, until Snape took that unbreakable vow. Stupid Snape. Much as it would be nice to see Dumbledore's faith in his restored somehow, I doubt it will be.

hockeybrat

07-17-2005, 02:06 PM

OMG, I am so glad that I am not the only one that raced through the book. It took me about 12 hours. I am done crying for now but my head is spinning with so many theories!

Snape - Count me in as one of those who thought he was a good guy. :( I still can't believe he did that to DD. I refuse to believe it is because Snape is evil. I still want to hang on to the theory that there is some good in him and he had to sacrifice DD for the Order to forge ahead. There has to be a good reason why DD felt he could trust Snape.

RAB - Good call on Regulus Black. As soon as I saw that note, my mind kept going back to all the possible names and that might be a good theory.

DD - I think he somehow knew at the end that he would have to die in order to save Harry. Remember how he kept urging and reminding Harry to remember his promise to follow his orders, no matter what? (I was reading the last few chapters outside on my front porch and I was bawling - gee, I wonder what my neighbors thought)

Romance - It was very well written and you could almost feel how everybody involved felt. (Ron/Lavender, Ron/Hermione, Ginny/Harry) If Harry survives the last book, I could see Ginny and Harry back together. He feels he has to do this on his own now, and rather than hurt others, he is going to be the "lone wolf" in this battle against VOldemort.

Wow, this was a great book, I am going to have to reread this obviously slower but it was great.

On a side note, I was waiting forever for the damn book to come in. I guess it was sent UPS to a post office then delivered to my house yesterday.

Dotsie

07-17-2005, 02:08 PM

I just finished reading the book. I loved it. I loved how JKR played the emotions of the teenage years. I laughed out loud several times while reading the book. I am saddened by AD death but I somehow knew it was coming. Harry cannot have a crutch to stand on while facing Voldemort. He has to do it alone. I think Harry and Ginny will wind up marrying as well as Ron and Hermione. I can't wait for the next book. When is it coming out? :D

anjuli

07-17-2005, 02:37 PM

Wow, that was a great book. I think #6 might be my favorite of the series (so far).

Anyways, what interesting theories you ladies have thought up! Kudos to OP who guessed R.A.B. could be Regulus Black. I was scanning my memory for all the characters in the series and couldn't figure out who had those initials.

Throughout the book, I guessed the Half-Blood Prince was either Voldemort or Snape. I figured it was someone who was good at Potions and had a mischievious/evil side to them.

I really want to believe Snape will be a good guy at the end. I think he and Dumbledore made an agreement beforehand that killing DD would be best option if a situation like that happened. I'm really curious as to the reason why DD trust Snape so much. Here's a farfetch theory: Could Snape be related to DD?

BTW, is the reason why DD's hand was blackened and burned the result of him cutting himself repeatedly to deposit blood to gain access to the Horcruxes (since he left Hogwarts so many times)? Or did I miss the explanation somewhere. Definitely need to read the book more slowly again.

maxandmolly

07-17-2005, 02:43 PM

I think the blackened hand happened when he got the ring from Voldemort's uncle's house, the one that was the second Horcrux destroyed.

katmg

07-17-2005, 02:58 PM

Imperius Curse - After finishing the book I don't actually think that DD was under the Imperius curse, I'm just saying that's what I was wondering as I was reading along. It seemed to be a very different Dumbledore than in the past but I imagine it was just a different side of him that he was allowing Harry to see.

I don't think that Dumbledore's hand was blackened due to blood-letting. I think it was some sort of injury related to retrieving the Horcrux. Something that happened when he touched it perhaps?

Snape - I just don't know what to think about that one. I'm not sure if he was preventing Harry from using the Unforgivable Curse because he wanted to "save" Harry from using them or not. I think he was showing what a powerful Occlumens he was by being able to correctly predict which spell Harry was trying to use. Harry already used the Unforgiveable Curse on Bellatrix in OotP, correct? It just didn't do much too her b/c he didn't *really* mean it. I'm not sure that Snape is redeemable. He is the one who told Voldemort the prophesy which led to Harry's parents' murder. He is the one who killed DD. Can't wait to see what book 7 holds!

Did anyone else think it was odd that Peter Pettigrew was staying with Snape but then never mentioned again?

Wrighty26

07-17-2005, 03:12 PM

Did anyone else think it was odd that Peter Pettigrew was staying with Snape but then never mentioned again?

I didn't think it was odd... only proved, to me, how Voldemort works. PP put his life on the line more than once for old Voldy, and gets repaid by being Snape's servant.

Initially, it also made me think that Voldemort didn't trust Snape as much as Snape said he did.

Another thing I've been thinking of-- do you think that (Draco) Malfoy will continue to follow Voldemort? There has always been spectulation that he and Harry will join forces in the end... I didn't think that was truly possible though--until the end of this book. I think personally think he had a rude awakening...

Dotsie

07-17-2005, 03:37 PM

ooh, I never really gave much thought into Draco and Harry joining forces...until now. I can see how they would join forces but ultimately I think it will only be Harry.

Emilie

07-17-2005, 04:17 PM

Good call on the RAB! Awesome catch!

Dumbledore's hand was blackened by touching the ring horacrux. DD said that is was only because he was a great wizard and Snape'e help that he did not due.

Is each of the horacruxes cursed or dangerous like that? I mean would it be a problem is someone like RAB stole the locket?

calliope_muses

07-17-2005, 04:21 PM

Anyone else come away feeling not quite satisfied with this book? It seems like with all of the previous books anything I thought to be true turned out to be a trick. I loved the twists and turns. But this one left me feeling - blah, for lack of a better word. From the second I read about DD's hand I thought it hinted at bad things, so his death wasn't that much of a shock. I'm sure the little snippets of info we got about Snape's dealings with the Death Eaters throughout the book were meant to make the reader wonder where his alliegences really were, but the past mystery just wasn't there for me.

I did get a kick out of the teenage love triangle stuff, and I agree with the previous posters who said they laughed out loud at parts. Overall a good read, just not quite the kick in the pants I expected...

scarlett

07-17-2005, 05:36 PM

No new thoughts to add. I'm just glad I have other people to talk about the book with :)

I definitely thought that RAB had to be someone we already knew about, but I couldn't think of who it might be. That's probably because I didn't have time to re-read OotP right before this. I'll be re-reading at least the beginning of OotP and HBP this week.

I, too, am really hoping that Snape is not all bad. I've never really liked Snape, but trust Dumbledore.

PeanutButter

07-17-2005, 06:40 PM

Just finished!

Great call on RAB. I, too, was wracking my brains.

I *knew* Snape was the HBP... It just made sense to me, given his expertness at Potions. I remembered that in Book 5 he was often portrayed as ragged/poor, so I just figured he was using a used book, which would account for the age of the book...

I don't think AD is coming back, although it wouldn't surprise me if he can communicate through his portrait or other means.

I am concerned about Harry giving up his last year at Hogwarts (that sounds like I am his guardian or something!!). Does that mean he has to abandon his goal of becoming an Auror? I suppose that if he defeats Voldemort, he'll be able to do whatever he wants in life...

The teenage angst stuff was really well done.

I just felt so SAD when it was over. Part of it was my depression over AD's death (although I figured before reading that he would be the one to die), but a lot of it was that I just feel like Harry is so alone. He has lost every parent-figure in his life....

Ok, I think I am a *little* too emotionally involved in this book!!

jenn0911

07-17-2005, 08:59 PM

Wow! This book was amazing! My sister, who also posts here, finised ahead of me. But I emailed her yesterday saying that I thought it would be AD who died! There WAS something about the hand and a few other things that made me think it was his time to go. Also, after I finsished reading, I racked my brain trying to think of RAB, and I also came up with Sirius's brother. Here are some of my other thoughts:

Death of AD: I believe he WAS asking Snape to kill him, NOT to spare him. I think he knew that keeping Snape in LV's circle would help Harry in the end. He said so many times that Harry's life was more imortant than his own.

Romance: I was so happy to see Harry and Ginny get together, and see Ron ok with it. Also, am hoping for a Ron/Hermione relationship. I also thought it was sweet that Fleur still loved Bill though he was disfigured and that Mrs. Weasley finally accepted her.

I Love that this book was lighter (besides AD's death) than #5 . It was so funny and witty. I was bummed about he lack of a story for Hagrid but I belive he will play a bigger role in #7. I also believe that Malfoy is not stong enough to be a Death Eater, but I don't believe it will lead to him helping Harry, but rather to his own death.

I can't wait to see the conclusion with the Dursleys, am hoping Neville has more to do in #7, and definatley believe that the 3 who have stuck togther shall stay together and triumph.

nicole

07-17-2005, 09:55 PM

What makes a person a half-blood?

Voldemort and Harry have both been called half-bloods, but Voldemorts parents were a witch and a muggle, and Harry's were a wizard and a muggle-born witch. Both Harry's parents were magical, but only one of Voldemort's was. It's interesting.

alliannie

07-18-2005, 12:06 AM

I think you are a half-blood if your whole family line isnt pureblood likes the Malfoys. Everyone in their line is a wizard or witch. Now even though both of Harry's parents were his mom's parents werent so hes not pureblood, therefore he is halfblood. I think almost all wizards and witches are halfbloods now since they always talk about how very few purebloods are left.

On the subject of the book, I think it left many more loose ends than normal. I just feel like in other books the "closed" and in this one DD died there was the funeral and then you have no idea of anything. I think we were left hanging more than normal.

I have always though Snape was bad. I have hated him since the first book. Evil man I think.

I agree that Draco could join Harry though I think he could do it alone. Draco doesnt want to be a death eater but is being forced to by his family I think.

I too was thrilled to see Harry and Ginny been waiting for that. I hope in the next book they end up together along with Ron and Heromine.

Okay now that I have typed a novel..Ill go...

tlew12778

07-18-2005, 03:29 AM

A long time ago I looked up half-blood and it seems there is no solid definition of it. Apparently the term applies if you are half-muggle (Tonks, Snape, Voldy) or have grandparents that are muggles (Harry). This is from the lexicon (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizworld/blood-status-names.html) :
half-blood
A witch or wizard with at least one wizarding parent but at least one Muggle parent or grandparent.

* Harry Potter (Muggle-born witch mother, wizard father)
* Tom Riddle (Muggle father, witch mother)
* Seamus Finnegan (Muggle father, witch mother)
* Nymphadora Tonks (Muggle-born father, pure-blood witch mother)
* Dean Thomas (Muggle mother, Wizard father, although he does not know this) (JKR)
* Rubeus Hagrid (wizard father, giantess mother)

Both Harry Potter and Tom Riddle (now Lord Voldemort) are half-bloods. Harry taunted the Death Eaters with this in the Department of Mysteries to stall for time (and as a side benefit, making the Death Eaters so angry that they lost the fine edge of their self control):

"Did you know he's a half-blood too?" said Harry recklessly. Hermione gave a little moan in his ear. "Voldemort? Yeah, his mother was a witch but his dad was a Muggle - or has he been telling you lot he's pureblood?" (OP35)

Much of the Wizarding World is actually in this category. Without marrying Muggles, the Wizarding race might very well have died out by now (CS7). Malfoy - Won't Voldy be pissed that Malfoy is being wishy-washy on his DE status? If he tries to back out he'll be killed. Unless he can somehow be protected by the OoTP that is...

Horcrux - black hand - Part of me thinks that each horcrux makes you die a little. I am wondering if in getting the various horcrux, Harry will not suffer in the same way (a piece of him dies each time?) or if perhaps his special connection with Voldy will prevent that from happening.

tlew12778

07-18-2005, 06:51 AM

Look at these crazy people on mugglenet! (OK I secretly admire them but jeez...)

Book 5, page 785
at the Solstice will come a new
and none will come after

These are the two smashed prophesies in the DoM, wouldn't it be cool if they foretold the release date of book 7? None will come after book 7, so it could be released on the solstice. Book 5 was actually released on the summer solstice, so maybe book 7 will come on the winter solstice: December 22, 2007.

eli1126

07-18-2005, 07:10 AM

Look at these crazy people on mugglenet! (OK I secretly admire them but jeez...)

And here I thought we were all a little over the top :D

Draco-Again my Pollyanna side wouldn't it be cool if he did choose good?

I also thought this: I am concerned about Harry giving up his last year at Hogwarts (that sounds like I am his guardian or something!!). Does that mean he has to abandon his goal of becoming an Auror? I suppose that if he defeats Voldemort, he'll be able to do whatever he wants in life...
Posted by: PeanutButter

Beth

ButterflyJen

07-18-2005, 07:42 AM

I agree, I hope Harry is able to still become an Auror even if he doesn't go back to Hogwarts. Though I'm shocked that Hermione is giving up school. ;)

AKA Poohgirl

07-18-2005, 07:51 AM

Oh my, this book was truly amazing. My husband came running when I let out a scream, after Snape had killed Dumbledore. And then I started crying! It was so sad.

I’m just curious now what that whole spin with Regulus Black stealing the horcrux is going to lead to? Very, very interesting. And I also believe that there were a lot of ends left open, but I have faith that JKR is going to tie everything up in the end. Working Tom Riddle’s diary into it was just brilliant.

I’m left believing that Snape is still on the good side. Not only because he stopped Harry from using an Unforgivable curse, but as mean as he’s always been to Harry, he didn’t curse him when they were up in the tower. He didn’t touch him at all, only to block his curses, and on top of that, stopped another Death Eater from killing Harry.

DD trusted Snape completely, and that’s enough for me. ;) I believe DD and Snape had an agreement, just as he had with Harry, that if it came down to it, he needed to kill him in order to stay in LV’s good graces.

Plus, the scene after Slughorn’s party, where Snape is trying to get Malfoy to tell him what he’s up to, kind of convinced me that Snape is still on the good side.

diedra1027

07-18-2005, 08:09 AM

Ohhh boy...I finished the book last night. I can't wait for #7!

Good call on RAB, I'm sure you guys are right.

I think I will be a little disappointed if Harry, Ron, and Hermione don't finish school. I know JKR has said that there will only be 7 books. Period. End of discussion. If Hogwarts was closed next year...they could go off for the Horcruxes AND finish their last year of school, but I'm thinking that would be two more books instead of just one ;).

I also think Snape is still on the good side. He kept both Draco and Harry from killing anyone and he kept the Death Eaters from killing Harry. I think he had an unbreakable vow with Dumbledore to maintain the appearance to Voldemort that he was still a faithful servant. Even if it meant killing Dumbledore to prove it.

Is there any speculation that Dumbledore faked his death? He was telling Draco that the Order could hide his family by faking their deaths right before the Death Eaters burst in. I don't think that I will fully believe that Dumbledore is dead until the last page of the last book :).

hockeybrat

07-18-2005, 08:41 AM

If everything is going to end in book 7, I am wondering how big that novel will be. Harry still has to find 4 horcruxes - maybe 3 if the one that RAB took has indeed been destroyed.

THEN, he has to kill Voldy and maybe we will finally understand why DD trusts Snape so much.

This is a lot of stuff to take on but really exciting.

scarlett

07-18-2005, 08:58 AM

If everything is going to end in book 7, I am wondering how big that novel will be. Harry still has to find 4 horcruxes - maybe 3 if the one that RAB took has indeed been destroyed. But if RAB is Regulas Black, then perhaps he's already found the other 3 (plus the locket) and they are all at the Black house (which is now Harry's). I'm pretty sure from OotP that we know the locket is at the house. So, rather than having to find all of the other horcruxes, Harry just has to figure out who RAB is, figure out that all the horcruxes are in his new house, destroy them and then kill Voldemort. That seems like a little bit of a shorter book ;)

ButterflyJen

07-18-2005, 09:00 AM

OK, here's something I'm confused about. Isn't the locket horcrux the same one that Katie Bell touched? Or is that a totally different necklace?

tlew12778

07-18-2005, 09:03 AM

nolagirl

07-18-2005, 09:11 AM

I agree that this book left many, many loose ends....more than i expected. I REALLY hope JKR will be able to tie all of them up in just one more book!

DD - I agree that DD and Snape planned his death to occur in that way. In OP, DD says that his greatest weakness is that he cares too much about Harry. I think he knew that if he were the one to lead the fight against Voldemort, ultimately he would have to choose between ending Voldemort or saving Harry. And he knew that he would always save Harry. At the same time, he knew that Harry wouldn't need him because he would always have the help of Ron and Hermoine (which was why he allowed Harry to tell those two about what was going on with the horcruxes). A lot of people have said Harry has to do this on his own, but I kinda think thats wrong. What sets Harry apart from Voldemort is his ability to love and trust others - I think that his ability to get help from others will ultimately be what allows him to defeat Voldemort. (Can you tell I have spent WAY too much time thinking this all over??!!)

Draco - I'm not sure he will actually "turn good" per se, but I do think that he will end up helping Harry in some way. There has to be more to DD saying that Draco is not a murderer. Also, I see some parallels between Draco and Harry - particularly in how their mothers have striven to protect them. Narcissa Malfoy has clearly chosen to protect her son even though she was going against Voldemort's wishes too do so. Seems to similar to what Lily Potter did for Harry not to mean something!

All that said, I have to agree with other posters who said that Dumbledore did not seem like himself in a lot of the book. I definitely was thinking that when they went to go get the locket. DD seemed to know just a lot too much about what was going to happen.......I kept thinking that he was someone else in disguise. There were so many references to polyjuice in the book. Also there were several references to using code words to make sure that someone is really who they say they are.....Mr. and Mrs. Weasley mention it, and I think DD even says something about it to Harry? (Asking if he likes a certain kind of jelly I think??) I kept waiting for those warnings to come to fruition. Is it possible that Snape and DD switched places? That Snape was really begging DD to end him? In light of what I said above about DD needing to die, I don't really think this is true.....but it is fun to speculate!

Anyway, I too am dying to know when the 7th book will be out.....except that that means its all over!!

Wrighty26

07-18-2005, 09:14 AM

OK, here's something I'm confused about. Isn't the locket horcrux the same one that Katie Bell touched? Or is that a totally different necklace?

Hmmm... I never thought of that-- but I'm pretty sure that it's a completely different necklace. DD would have seen it and recognized, I'm sure-- wouldn't he?

I think that Book 7 is going to be plenty long. Just think of all of the things we still don't understand! I think that we're finally going to get the history of James/Lily (more than just a glimpse), a rationale for why Voldy picked Harry over Neville (more than just "Snape told him the prophecy- and Snape hated James/Lily"-- even though that could have been the reason), why DD told Harry at end of book 4 that Harry not killing Voldy was going to come in handy, what implications it will have that Voldemort was brought back to life with Harry's blood-- and the history of all of the Horcruxes. I know we have some understanding of this stuff, but I think it's all going to play out in the end!

I'm such a HP dork :D

scarlett

07-18-2005, 09:19 AM

OK, here's something I'm confused about. Isn't the locket horcrux the same one that Katie Bell touched? Or is that a totally different necklace? No, they're different necklaces. The necklace that Katie touched was an opal necklace.

hockeybrat

07-18-2005, 09:19 AM

I've spent the day reading mugglenet so I've got a lot going through my head...

I'm afraid to ask this question on there for fear of being accused of not being a true HP fan, but was Regulus definitely killed by the DEs? I don't feel like fishing for an exact quote. I know he was found dead. I am wondering if in attempting to destroy the locket horcrux, he was killed. DD said that had Snape not helped him, he too would have died when he destroyed the ring horcrux... so destruction of the horcruxes is definitely associated with danger and most likely death.

Also, I need to re-read this, but is the point of the horcrux to serve as a sort of soul reserve for when you are killed? If this is the case, then wouldn't Voldy have had to use some when he was resurrected? Or does he always maintain his own piece of soul and the other 6 just bind him to the earth?

Someone on mugglenet brought up a good point and said that it is most likely that one of the remaining horcrux is at hogwarts and this will bring back the trio. They may give their NEWTS while searching for the horcrux at the school. Alternatively DD will ask Harry (posthumously, either by letter or some other means) to stick with school and Harry will obey (although this doesn't give him much time to deal with the horcruxes not located at the school).

I think it wasn't said implicitly that Regulus was killed by the DE but in OotP, he was killed on Voldemort's orders. Voldy didn't kill him personally however. So that leaves some questions as to whether or not Voldy knew about the fake Horcrux.

From what I had read, the Horcrux stores your soul if you split it and in order to split your soul, you'd have to commit a terrible crime, such as murder. Since it is assumed that Voldy split it out of the "original" soul, six times, there should be 7 altogether. DD mentioned something about how Voldy probably doesn't realize that a couple (or even 3) Horcruxes have been destroyed already - he doesn't feel it like we humans would.

Not sure about the Horcrux being in Hogwarts but that is a good theory. That would bring Harry back to the school and somehow he can go into DD's Pensieve and maybe see the image of DD & Snape making their agreement that DD had to be killed. Maybe DD had that thought bottled up somewhere.

ButterflyJen

07-18-2005, 09:24 AM

Hmm, now I had to look. ;) The opal necklace that Katie touched went directly to Snape (at least, that's where McGonagall told them to take it). I'm trying to find the description of the locket in here, but having difficulty...

hockeybrat

07-18-2005, 09:28 AM

The Opal Necklace was in that shop Harry ended up in CoS when he used the Floo Network. I don't remember if that was the same necklace that cursed a bunch of muggles or not. I'll have to re-read the books this summer.

ButterflyJen

07-18-2005, 09:34 AM

OK, I read HBP too fast. I found the description of the locket vs the opal necklace. Ooops. Here the whole end of the book where they're talking about having to find the locket, I'm thinking "It's the one that got Katie!" Yeah, I definitely read way too fast. :)

laura

07-18-2005, 09:52 AM

Snape
I'm still really out on this one... like I said before, I think he is evil but that doesn't necessarily mean he is a death eater I guess. He's just dark overall. I am really starting to think that he sacrificed himself (he split his soul when he killed DD) in order to save Draco... the ultimate teacher looking out for his students, you know? He also prevents Harry from using an unforgiveable curse. Snape had plenty of time to either do Harry in or kidnap him but he didn't... I wonder why... I think that when DD begged "Severus, please..." he was asking Severus to kill him and save Draco as well as himself (since he would have died due to the unbreakable vow or at Voldemort's hand). I think that is why Snape screamed at Harry that he was not a coward, bc it took all his courage to kill DD.

I haven't read this whole thread (yet!), but I do want to agree with this. Much as I think Snape is a bastard, I think him being the bad guy and Voldemort's go-to guy for real is just too obvious. Does that make sense? I think he killed DD for the reasons everyone else is saying, and I think the real reason I still want to believe he will come out on the "right" side is that he didn't kill Harry out in the yard - and he didn't let anyone else do it. Also, he said "Leave him for the Dark Lord" or whatever, but if he was really evil, wouldn't he have just grabbed Harry and taken him w/ him? I really want to hate Snape, but at the same time, him being "bad" all along just seems too - I don't know, simple?

ETA: On the other hand, I don't think Snape was "stopping" Harry from using the Unforgivable Curses as a way of being charitable - I think he was saying that Harry wasn't strong enough to use them (like in book 5) and - obviously - if they did work, Snape wouldn't want to suffer, good or not.

bookworm

07-18-2005, 10:01 AM

Also, I need to re-read this, but is the point of the horcrux to serve as a sort of soul reserve for when you are killed? If this is the case, then wouldn't Voldy have had to use some when he was resurrected? Or does he always maintain his own piece of soul and the other 6 just bind him to the earth?

I need to re-read as well, but my impression is that he would have used up a Horcrux coming back. They referenced Harry's memory of Voldemort saying something like "I, who have gone further than any wizard down the road to immortality..." That suggests to me that having multiple Horcruxes increases your "lives" (so to speak)--otherwise, one would be sufficient, and more wouldn't be better (beyond decreasing the likelihood of it being destroyed).

hockeybrat

07-18-2005, 10:04 AM

Do we really know that DD was "begging" Snape at the end? This was brought up a few times on mugglenet that during this scene, there was eye contact between DD and Snape. Both are accomplished in Legimency so there could be some hidden conversation we won't know until Book 7

laura

07-18-2005, 10:09 AM

I think it wasn't said implicitly that Regulus was killed by the DE but in OotP, he was killed on Voldemort's orders. Voldy didn't kill him personally however. So that leaves some questions as to whether or not Voldy knew about the fake Horcrux.

This is what I was going to say. Sirius relates that bit of info and he says that his brother was a DE, but then he tried to leave and "it's a lifetime service or death". Then he said that his brother didn't "rate" as important enough to be killed by V personally, so one of the DEs probably did it. I think it's possible he was killed trying to destroy the other Horcrux, but it seems like V would know about it then? Then, maybe he does.

And here is another thought - Dumbledore said the "genius" of this particular Horcrux's locale was that it would take 2 people to get it. So if RAB is Regalus (that's the only person I could come up w/ also, unless it's someone who hasn't been introduced yet), he must have had help.

ETA: I think the "begging" people are referring to is D's actual works "Severus, please..." - I think in context, that could be seen as begging for mercy, but I think a private convo via Occulmency is a good point, too.

ButterflyJen

07-18-2005, 10:20 AM

I almost wonder if that emerald liquid in the basin holding the locket/fake Horcrux was fatal anyway. Possibly Dumbledore knew he was going to die anyway and so asked Snape to kill him in order to spare Draco/keep the Unbreakable Vow sacred.

hockeybrat

07-18-2005, 10:24 AM

OK, I was just on Mugglenet typing about Snape and I came up with this theory regarding the Killing Curse. Sorry if the thoughts are a little scrambled.

We know that DD made sure Harry had his Cloak on when he was up there in the tower and DD "froze" him for lack of a better word. Now, in OotP, we know that when Harry tried to use an unforgivable curse on Bellatrix, it wasn't effective and that he need to feel hatred.

So, by Harry being invisible and frozen as he saw Snape kill Dumbledore (remember, Harry said several times that he is Dumbledore's man, through and through) and ends up feeling this hatred. Wouldn't this in turn help him to ultimately kill Voldemort?

That being said, that would mean that Snape HAD to do this, for Harry to move ahead.

nolagirl

07-18-2005, 10:31 AM

Hockeybrat........interesting theory! I guess a part of me hopes that Harry will never be able to use the unforgiveable curses. DD has made the point that his ability to love is what makes him different from Voldemort.....Those curses are what Voldemort and the DeathEaters rely on....I want Harry to be above that! Although it is definitely possible that Harry will need to use the Dark Arts to defeat Voldemort. I just don't want it to happen!

Natasha

07-18-2005, 11:15 AM

I just finished the book and i sobbed! preggo lady hormones, maybe, but, I sobbed. I am just so proud that harry hasn't felt desperation and futility after all this, but instead resolve and determination. man, i love these books!

tlew12778

07-18-2005, 12:14 PM

I need to re-read as well, but my impression is that he would have used up a Horcrux coming back. They referenced Harry's memory of Voldemort saying something like "I, who have gone further than any wizard down the road to immortality..." That suggests to me that having multiple Horcruxes increases your "lives" (so to speak)--otherwise, one would be sufficient, and more wouldn't be better (beyond decreasing the likelihood of it being destroyed). OK well if this is true, then there are less horcruxes to find and destroy. We know there are 7:

The diary (destroyed)
The ring (destroyed)
The locket (possibly destroyed)
Hufflepuff's Cup
Something of Griffindor or Ravenclaw's
Nagini
Voldemort himself

Voldy rose once when he overtook Quirrel (or does this not count?) then again when he came out of the cauldron... so that possibly leaves only 2 or 3 to find and destroy...

And here is another thought - Dumbledore said the "genius" of this particular Horcrux's locale was that it would take 2 people to get it. So if RAB is Regalus (that's the only person I could come up w/ also, unless it's someone who hasn't been introduced yet), he must have had help. This could have been Kreatcher.

Sposa06

07-18-2005, 01:10 PM

I don't have the book at hand, so forgive me if this is incorrect, but wouldn't, with his occlumency/legilimecy skills, Snape have been able to sense Harry in the room? Not sure what, if any, implication that has ... aside from, I guess, him being able to kill him and not doing it.

As much as I love to hate Snape, I agree, it's far too "easy" for him to be evil. I'm sure DD and Snape were conversing when Dumbledore was pleading with Snape - not necessarily for Snape to spare his life, but to live up to his part of a bargain (or unbreakable vow) and end it.

I could've done without Fleur ... and I knew DD would die in this book. It just seemed to be projected from the first words of the book. I don't know what I was expecting, and I'm not saying I didn't like it - I really did enjoy it - it's just that, after such a wait, and at such a crucial juncture in the story, I expected a little bit more.

alliannie

07-18-2005, 01:53 PM

I am very interested in this Snape isnt really evil just pretending to be part of a plan type thing. I had honestly never thought of this I just thought he was evil. This really has me thinking.

ShamrockBride

07-18-2005, 02:07 PM

RAB, I'm curious to see what his middle name is. I'm almost sure it said when they were looking over the tapestry, but my roomate has that book... this was the first thing that popped into my head.

HBP i actually had this one figured out, but was almost thrown because of the date, and also because I didnt know where he would have come up with the name.

Evil or not, I always thought draco would come around, not and be part of the happy in crowd, but at least not as bad as he seems. I think Snape will be cleared either through a letter or a memory like the others said, but maybe not before harry gets to him.

Love- what can i say... I love it!

did anyone else see the irony that snape has been there for so many years, but only holds the dada post for a year, like every other before him?

OH and the new minister... death eater?

my theory on wormtail... he was sent to make sure snape wasnt being a traitor. He was put there to babysit him, I also wonder if he wasnt using polyjuice potion and pretending to be snape. then snape could still be good and whatnot, and he may have stopped harry from using the unforgivable because he doesnt want him to know how to use them. maybe they require practice and he wants harry going in cold.
ok far fetched

anyhow i'll quit now, i have a novel, and i really need a friend who has read it that i can sit on the couch and talk with forever about it.. sigh

JillianS

07-18-2005, 02:25 PM

shamrockbride--

haha i was JUST coming to post that about it being funny that they yet again are out a dada teacher :)

and a transfig. teacher too come to think of it...

PeanutButter

07-18-2005, 02:39 PM

Where can I read all these theories and whatnot at MuggleNet? I can't seem to find any message boards or forums or anything.

So the theory is that Wormtail was sent by the DEs to keep Snape in line? I am not sure about that, if only because Wormtail is such a wimp (for lack of a better word) that I can't see him being the enforcer against anyone. But I could be wrong...

Someone mentioned earlier that they look forward to more information about James and Lily in book 7, and I wholeheartedly agree! I just wonder who will be able to offer it - Sirius and AD are dead, and Lupin seems to have told Harry everything he knows.

SaphirimalMei

07-18-2005, 02:42 PM

I can't see him being the enforcer against anyone no, probably not, but he IS a good narc! :p

hockeybrat

07-18-2005, 02:47 PM

bookworm

07-18-2005, 03:03 PM

Someone mentioned earlier that they look forward to more information about James and Lily in book 7, and I wholeheartedly agree! I just wonder who will be able to offer it - Sirius and AD are dead, and Lupin seems to have told Harry everything he knows.

My best guess is that Dumbledore will have willed Harry his memories--he seems to keep a lot of them stored in bottles in his office. I can't see how else we'll ever know what made DD trust Snape.

anjuli

07-18-2005, 04:45 PM

In my geeky quest to find more information on Snape online, I came across this website:

HP Info (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/index-2.html)

I was puzzled when I came across the timeline because it said that Harry Potter started attending Hogwarts in the early 1990's. I guess I must have missed that in the 1st book because I don't remember that. I've always thought the book took place today. Does anyone remember any mention of specific years in the books?

ShamrockBride

07-18-2005, 05:05 PM

I know he's a wimp... but i suppose like AD I want to believe that while snape hates harry he isnt totally evil, and that his loyalty does lie in the right place.
Oh, and Harry breaking up with Ginny for such great reasons, that is love.. real love.

ButterflyJen

07-18-2005, 05:20 PM

I was puzzled when I came across the timeline because it said that Harry Potter started attending Hogwarts in the early 1990's. I guess I must have missed that in the 1st book because I don't remember that. I've always thought the book took place today. Does anyone remember any mention of specific years in the books?
Anjuli - Kind of. In CoS, they attend Nearly Headless Nick's 500th Deathday Party. His cake said he died 31st October, 1492....so that would mean Harry started attending Hogwarts in 1991. :)

Wrighty26

07-18-2005, 05:31 PM

Someone mentioned earlier that they look forward to more information about James and Lily in book 7, and I wholeheartedly agree! I just wonder who will be able to offer it - Sirius and AD are dead, and Lupin seems to have told Harry everything he knows.

What about Petunia? Harry still has to go back to the Dursely's, at least one more time... I'm wondering if this is why Dumbledore was so adament (besides Harry being protected) until he turned 17. Petunia definitely knows SOMETHING!

This is cute... those kids asked some good questions!!!
Cub Reporters Interview JKR (http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_4690000/newsid_4690800/4690885.stm)

ButterflyJen

07-18-2005, 05:33 PM

Good call, Wrighty - here I was thinking Dumbledore was adamant because he somehow knew (or strongly suspected) he wouldn't be around to "force" the Dursleys into taking Harry in again. But that would make sense, too!

anjuli

07-18-2005, 05:35 PM

Anjuli - Kind of. In CoS, they attend Nearly Headless Nick's 500th Deathday Party. His cake said he died 31st October, 1492....so that would mean Harry started attending Hogwarts in 1991. :)

Good catch ButterflyJen ! I'm going to reread that section of CoS. Actually it would be fun to read over the earlier books now that I know the significance of certain characters and things.

Wrighty26

07-18-2005, 06:02 PM

I was just reading the interview...Some key questions keep popping up!

Sarah Wallace for the Irish Independent - How did you think of the bond between Harry and Lord Voldemort?
JK Rowling: That is another one of those questions that goes right to the heart of the series. I can't answer. It touches way too closely on book 7. Sorry. Good question.

David Moulds for the News of the World - How does Aunt Petunia know about dementors and all the other magical facts she knows?
JK Rowling: Another very good question. She overheard a conversation, that is all I am going to say. She overheard conversation. The answer is in the beginning of Phoenix, she said she overheard Lily being told about them basically.

Is that true?

JK Rowling: Yes. The reason I am hesitant is because there is more to it than that. As I think you suspect. Correctly, but I don't want to say what else there is because it relates to book 7.

Samatha Scattergood for Waterstones - Which is your favourite member of the Order of the Phoenix?
JK Rowling: I keep killing all my favourite members of the Order of the Phoenix, but there is one member of the Order of the Phoenix that you have not yet met properly and you will ** well, you know that they are a member, but you haven't really met them properly yet and you will meet them in seven, so I am looking forward to that.

Erin Bower representing the Sunday Herald - Wondering if you have ever written anything before that has complicated something you wrote afterwards? Like A tells B something and B is not meant to know that until later, how did you get around this problem?
JK Rowling: That is a very good question, it shows a lot of insight into the problems of having a very long plot.

I have normally caught things in time. During the writing of Chamber of Secrets, the story line of the Half-Blood Prince in this book was initially incorporated into the second book and I obviously do not want an elaborate on that in case people haven't finished the book and that is why the working title of Chamber of Secrets was the Half-Blood Prince, it became clear to me during the writing of that book that I had two major plots here that really did not work too well together side by side, so one had to be pulled out, it became clear immediately that.

I could have soldiered on, included that information there and that would have been messed up the later plot, as you know if you have. I will be very careful, the revelations about the half-blood, for instance, would have blown a lot of things open...

emschwar

07-18-2005, 06:23 PM

I finished the book this evening. I was so depressed...

At first, I didn't buy the Snape as good theory, but y'all have convinced me.

DD totally seems the type to me who would save all his memories for later pensive use.

Questions - why did DD freeze Harry? Was it so he would see him die? Harry had the invisibility cloak on, so it can't have been to keep him from getting hurt in the stairway.

Who was Stan whatever his name is? The one who was wrongly imprisoned? I thought they said he was the knight bus driver, but then a night bus driver (Ernie?) was at the funeral.

I wonder what Voldemort did to curse the DADA position. DD made reference to him having to find a new teacher every year since he refused it to V, and I got the sense that V had something to do with that. Also, I wonder if we'll find out why V wanted to be back at hogwarts.

I don't think V used up horcruxes when coming back. I think they just tie him to this world. That's why Harry has to destroy them all before he can kill V, otherwise he won't really be dead. Since his whole soul isn't gone, then he's not really dead. I think all the other times, he's just been weakened.

I feel so bad for Harry. Poor kid, everyone who was a parent to him got killed. I'm sure Mrs Weasley would be happy to take him under her wing though. :)

I think those were all my thoughts. Hard to remember them all, after 8 pages of posts!

ShamrockBride

07-18-2005, 06:34 PM

I think that Dumbledore froze Harry so he wouldn't attack his DD's attackers thus giving him away. He wanted to make sure Harry couldnt harm Malfoy before Malfoy made a choice. He wanted to show Harry that Malfoy might come around. But as I said earlier also to protect him.

ShamrockBride

07-18-2005, 07:02 PM

OH, and did anyone catch what Hermione wants to do after school? Ron and Harry want to be Aurorers.... so what about her?

ButterflyJen

07-18-2005, 07:09 PM

Em - Stan Shunpike was the conductor, I guess, of the Knight Bus. Did you see the movie for PoA? He was the guy who opened the door and let Harry on. The tall skinny guy.

I think Voldemort wanted to be back at Hogwarts to find more of the original founders' items for Horcruxes. He had Hufflepuff's cup and Slytherin's locket, now he needed something from Ravenclaw and Griffyndor.

ITA about all of Harry's parental figures being killed. Makes me wonder if the Weasley parents are going to be next. :(

Veeeeery interesting interview, Wrighty...veeeeery interesting. :)

ButterflyJen

07-18-2005, 07:10 PM

Oh yeah, Shamrock - does it say in OotP what Hermione wants to do with her life after school? I can't remember....need to check that out!

ShamrockBride

07-18-2005, 07:28 PM

ButterflyJen- I dont remember, I do remember them looking through all the packets and whatnot on what you could become, but i dont remember if it says... but she is definatly in different classes then the other two

curlyq

07-18-2005, 08:55 PM

I only got through reading 4 pages of this discussion, so sorry if this has been talked about, BUT...

could Neville play a much bigger role in the next book - could he perhaps be the key to helping end Voldemort? It seems like he's getting bolder every book... I dunno.

Re the Snape theories that he was acting upon DD's orders, that's what I'm feeling... need to go re-read the entire series, but not until I read pages 5-9 in this discussion! :)

nolagirl

07-18-2005, 09:44 PM

I'm pretty sure that Hermoine said she wanted to make running SPEW her job after Hogwarts.

JillianS

07-19-2005, 12:03 AM

yes, hermione talked about "taking SPEW further" when they were talking about careers, ron brought up being a healer or something, but she said she wanted to do something 'worthwhile" (like taking spew further..) :p

i will second though, the thought someone posted about being slightly disappointed in the book...don't get me wrong, i liked it a lot, but I was expecting so much more. Not once did I let out a gasp of surprise as something mind-boggling was revealed. I miss the revelations that totally change how you read the previous books.
It seemed to just "mosey-on" too, not much huge drama or climaxes..even the end...i didn't find my heart racing and getting as excited as the others (though that could be cuz it was 5am and I;d stayed up all night reading... :) )
I think this book was what it needed to be, a precursor to the final book. most of the book was about filling in history, not about actual action...idk.
I'd thought we were supposed to learn a lot more in this book. about harry and his history, about james and lilly and petunia, and that's what I was really looking forward to, but I guess I was wrong.
I just felt like through the whole book I was waiting with anticipation for the "big things" to happen and they never did...even DD dying was a bit of a letdown..(but that event is surely to be explained further in 7)..it wasn't as exciting and dramatic as I'd thought it was going to be (DD was always my guess for the death we knew was coming in this book)...
I don't know if my disappointment comes from just plain having these wild and crazy expectations or what...

but i still love it. i'm still obsessed and I will obviously be reading it again. I'm sure it was written exactly how it's supposed to be and that it's complications are underlying and subtle..and that we, like harry were being prepared for what is to come...

tlew12778

07-19-2005, 03:32 AM

Stan - is the ticket collector on the knight bus. Ernie is indeed the driver.

JillianS - I believe that JKR actually stated that book 6 is more like part 1 of 2 to the finale... so that would explain why it's so different from the others (no Voldy appearance, no final scene back at King's Cross, etc). It's supposed to leave you hanging basically.

Fellyphone HAHAHAHAHA. Great name! I shoulda thought up a new name for mugglenet as well. Maybe I'll think of one and get them to change my user (same as here, same as LJ, same as WC... I'm sooo boring...).

ETA: Ligilimens only works with direct eye contact. This is one of the suspected reasons why DD would not look Harry in the eye in all of Book 5.

Bellefior

07-19-2005, 04:40 AM

Okay, on the topic of horcruxes, has anyone thought Harry himself might be a Horcrux????

The reason I came up with this is because Harry can speak Parseltongue and (until Voldemort figured out he could) could see things from Voldemort's point of view--anyone remember when the snake attacked Arthur Weasley? Also. Dumbledore's explanation as to why Harry could see from the snakes/Voldemort's point of view--that the Dark Lord had unknowingly transferred some of his powers to Harry when he tried to kill him--could it actually be what was transferred was part of Voldemort's soul??? It might explain why Harry has extraordinary luck when fighting the dark forces--kill him and you kill a piece of the Dark Lord, which for obvious reasons, Voldemort wouldn't want happening. Remember Snape saying to leave Harry for the Dark Lord when he could have killed him? Maybe Snape didn't want to kill him because he has part of the Dark Lord's soul.

And if Harry does have part of the Dark Lord's soul, does this mean both he and Voldemort must be killed in order for Voldemort to be vanquished?? Remember Trewlaney's prediction "neither can live while the other survives" could this mean that both must die? I'd hate to think JKR would kill Harry off at the end of the book, but then again, her last few books haven't had happy endings either.

curlyq

07-19-2005, 04:52 AM

Bellefior, EXCELLENT idea! Very intriguing - will have to ponder today!

bookworm

07-19-2005, 04:57 AM

I don't think V used up horcruxes when coming back. I think they just tie him to this world. That's why Harry has to destroy them all before he can kill V, otherwise he won't really be dead. Since his whole soul isn't gone, then he's not really dead. I think all the other times, he's just been weakened.

After re-reading this bit last night, I'm reversing my earlier answer and agreeing with emschwar. It seems like he just has extra things binding him to the earth, so maybe the "further down the road to immortality" is just a stronger bind to the world (6/7, rather than 1/2).

Bellefior , I also wondered if Harry was the last Horcrux. I wondered if he'd have to die to save the world (how is that for symbolism?) but I can't quite believe that's true. Rather, if he is the horcrux, I'm thinking that somehow the "love" thing will render that Horcrux useless to Voldemort.

Clearly, I'm babbling. I haven't worked through this in my head yet, so the better answer would have been "yes, I wondered that too" :).

Wrighty26

07-19-2005, 05:16 AM

kemaji

07-19-2005, 06:42 AM

I stayed up way to late last night finishing up HBP. I kind of had an inkling that DD would be the one but still! :eek: I definitely need to read it again (I was reading so quickly last night), and I'm thinking I want to reread the whole series so I can properly appreciate everything in sequence.

Good call on RAB...

I tend to agree with the idea that Snape isn't all bad, at least we don't know the complete story behind his motivations for killing DD.

I was mad that the horcrux they recovered wasn't the real thing, I wanted it to be since DD had to die.

I really don't want Harry to die at the end of the last book, although it could be possible that he is the final horcrux.

tlew12778

07-19-2005, 06:44 AM

There is a lot of discussion on mugglenet about HP being the last horcrux. I don't think so though... my reason is the following:

In order to kill Voldy, all the horcrux must be detroyed. So that means that HP needs to either find a way to un-horcrux himself, or kill Voldy from the grave.
It seems to be the general consensus that Voldy wanted to use HP's death to create the last horcrux. He obviously did not succeed. We don't know if he inadvertantly made HP a horcrux in the process but the horcrux is a specific spell that was not used on HP.
Voldy seems to want to kill HP. Didn't he try the Avada Kedavra curse on him in GoF? Why would he want to kill a part of his own soul? Unless he is unaware that HP is a horcrux...
DD thought it unwise to make a living thing a horcrux. Then again, he did it with Nagini (assuming Nagini is indeed a horcrux) and he might not have made HP one intentionally...

Some ppl are saying it's just his scar. This is an interesting theory but I don't really know how it could be a scar... I don't know what the US cover has on it, but the UK cover has a picture of the ring on the spine and the ring has a crack in it that is the shape of a lightning bolt...

Some ppl are also saying Ginny is one... something about Tom Riddle pouring a part of him into her in the CoS. But I am not sure about this bc Tom was only a "memory" and not actually Voldy.

ETA: Look at this theory... very interesting:
In book 7, I think Harry will somehow find out he is a Horcrux and will seek out a Dementor and Ginny will have to have tohelp him after Voldemort's soul is sucked out, but before Harry's is.

AKA Poohgirl

07-19-2005, 07:48 AM

I really really like the idea that DD faked his own death. (sorry I forgot who said it, but it could be! That would be great)

And I, for one, don't think that Harry is a horcrux, only because Voldemort has tried to kill him, as tlew said above, in GoF. Unless, like others say, that Voldemort has no idea that Harry is a horcrux, but if he's the one creating them, I don't see how he could not know.

However, if he does turn out to be one, it would once again prove what an amazing mind she, being JKR, (and Bellfiore) have.

Bellefior

07-19-2005, 07:58 AM

I really really like the idea that DD faked his own death. (sorry I forgot who said it, but it could be! That would be great)

Hmm. Is it possible that Dumbledore wasn't really Dumbledore, but someone who had drank Polyjuice Potion to look like Dumbledore?!?!?! Remember in Goblet of Fire where Mrs. Crouch went to Azkaban, transformed places with her son to sneak him out, and no one knew about the switch because of the Polyjuice potion? When she died in the prison, she was buried under her son's name because she still looked like him. It might also explain why Dumbledore's body was wrapped up at the funeral.

ButterflyJen

07-19-2005, 08:14 AM

I wish I could believe that Dumbledore isn't dead, but there's his portrait hanging in the Headmaster's office. I don't think that's something they can fake. (Plus that's a little too Gandalf for my tastes.)

I also don't believe Harry is a Horcrux. Ginny, I could see, as there was a whole passage in CoS about Ginny pouring out her soul into the diary and Tom having to give some of his soul back to her. Interesting - you know how JK likes to foreshadow. Overall, though, I don't think Ginny is one. If she dies in book 7, it's fighting, not because she has to for Harry to defeat LV.

hockeybrat

07-19-2005, 08:25 AM

I don't believe that DD isn't dead. If he weren't dead, Fawkes wouldn't have sang his song of mourning, nor would he have left Hogwarts.

I think he had to die in order for Harry to go on.

katmg

07-19-2005, 08:38 AM

I think he's really dead. His portrait showed up in the headmaster's office, Fawkes sang his song. Plus, I think he had to die in order for Harry to be the one to kill Voldemort. He has to depend on himself - not his parents or Sirius or Dumbledore. Perhaps he had more to learn about love? I also don't think JKR would jerk us around like that. As much as I would love for DD to still be alive. I don't think it's gonna happen.

ShamrockBride

07-19-2005, 08:52 AM

Sadly, and as many times as I try to come up with other answers I cant believe them myself. Dumbledore had to die.

Did anyone else bawl like a baby when they read "I'm not worried Harry, I'm with you." I totally lost it.

I did have a thought tho, they say trophy in relation to Voldemort a lot. Is it possible that he used he special services to the school trophy as a horcrux. This may explain why he wanted into the school so badly, JK doesnt tell us how long after the murder you can preform the curse, and maybe he didnt have to commit murder, it just said doing something completely evil, and here is a crazy thoery
maybe he stripped petunia of her powers somehow, and that is why she is antimagic, because she was a witch who got screwed over. She was considered weird in the wizarding world after that, so she strove to be as normal as possible in the muggle world so that she wouldnt ever be discovered as an ex witch..

well its possible

hockeybrat

07-19-2005, 09:13 AM

Sadly, and as many times as I try to come up with other answers I cant believe them myself. Dumbledore had to die.

Did anyone else bawl like a baby when they read "I'm not worried Harry, I'm with you." I totally lost it.

I was bawling during that whole scene where Harry had to force Dumbledore to drink that nasty potion. I had to stop because I couldn't see the book several times. :(

emschwar

07-19-2005, 09:25 AM

Plus, I think he had to die in order for Harry to be the one to kill Voldemort. He has to depend on himself - not his parents or Sirius or Dumbledore. Perhaps he had more to learn about love?
oooh...interesting idea. Maybe that in order to really learn about love, you have to lose people? Very interesting...

Here's another question I had. Why did DD have to drink the potion? Why couldn't they just use the goblet to pour it into the water or onto the rock?

Emilie

07-19-2005, 09:35 AM

Backing up a bit, something struck me as interesting:

Samatha Scattergood for Waterstones - Which is your favourite member of the Order of the Phoenix?
JK Rowling: I keep killing all my favourite members of the Order of the Phoenix, but there is one member of the Order of the Phoenix that you have not yet met properly and you will ** well, you know that they are a member, but you haven't really met them properly yet and you will meet them in seven, so I am looking forward to that.

Any ideas who that might be? I am thinking Lily, but wondering what everyone else thought.

silentbunny

07-19-2005, 09:56 AM

And here I was thinking I am all clever, and most of my ideas were already in here! ;) (Namely, Harry himself -- or at least the scar -- being a horcrux.)

Thought that just occurred to me...Remeber when Dumledore spoke of only being able to keep Defense Against the Dark Arts teachers for a year, no longer? Wasn't it then foretold that Snape would HAVE to disappear after this year as DADA teacher? With that in mind, it seems that the scene on top of the tower had to have been planned between DD and Snape...Or at least that thre had been some plan between DD and Snape. My guess is that Snape has been assigned to protect Malfoy...but not by Malfoy's mom, by Dumbledore.

ShamrockBride

07-19-2005, 09:59 AM

Emilie- I dont know if it can be Lily, as much as I would love to get to know more about her, she is dead. I'm almost thinking it might be a minor charactor, like Rosemawhatever from three broomsticks, Or maybe one of the death eaters whose name we have heard. the more spies the better. Or maybe a muggle... oh i dunno

does anyone think the new minister of magic might be a death eater, or just evil?

hockeybrat

07-19-2005, 10:02 AM

katmg

07-19-2005, 10:13 AM

I don't think that Rosmerta is in the Order. She was under the Imperius Curse during this book and I think the Order would have realized that. Plus she would have known a lot more and would have been valuable to the DEs that way rather than just as a pawn.

I'm not sure about Scrimgoeur being a DE. My *only* back up for this is that JKR describes him as looking like a lion which would relate him back to Griffindor, correct? Otherwise, I didn't like him in this book at all.

emschwar - I wondered the same thing! Hello! Just pour the stupid potion out. You don't have to drink it. They could have at least tried...

hockeybrat

07-19-2005, 10:18 AM

There are a couple discussions whether or not the potion was actually the Horcrux. If that were the case, it would maybe explain the agony Dumbledore was going through when he drank it.

katmg

07-19-2005, 11:24 AM

I read on the Lexicon forum something about Kreacher having knowledge of Regulus and the horcruxes. That would tie in nicely with DD's theme in OotP that wizards will have to reconcile their treatment of other magical beings. If Kreacher knew critical information about the horcruxes and could help Harry on his quest, that might do a lot of house elves rights.

diedra1027

07-19-2005, 11:29 AM

JK Rowling: I keep killing all my favourite members of the Order of the Phoenix, but there is one member of the Order of the Phoenix that you have not yet met properly and you will ** well, you know that they are a member, but you haven't really met them properly yet and you will meet them in seven, so I am looking forward to that. I was just thinking that it would be pretty cool if Aunt Petunia was this mystery OotP member, but since JKR mentions that it's someone we already know to be a member I'm going to say that's not happening :).

Why did DD have to drink the potion? Why couldn't they just use the goblet to pour it into the water or onto the rock? I just assumed that he knew that it was enchanted so that he had to drink it. Just like the cup was enchanted so that Harry couldn't fill it with summoned water.

ShamrockBride

07-19-2005, 11:52 AM

I agree that DD knew he had to drink the potion It may have just refilled the basin if he tried to dump it on the ground, and he probably knew that. As for Petunia being a member of the OoTP I have thought that through. It is entirely possible... look how clean her house is. Maybe Voldemort was the reason she turned away from magic, maybe she was scared... I guess that would make Dudley a squib... teehee :)
It does seem though, that if one muggle born comes from a family, all of thier siblings are magical too. Look at the Creevey brothers.

Oh, and for the minister of magic being described as a lion, that could mean the he is the hier of Griffendor, or, it could mean that he is dangerous, as lions generally are. Or it could mean he is brave to take on such a responsibility at such a dangerous time.. I dunno.

Do you think Kreacher has the locket still? They did find one in OoTP that wouldnt open

hockeybrat

07-19-2005, 11:53 AM

Do you think Kreacher has the locket still? They did find one in OoTP that wouldnt open

He probably has it hidden somewhere in the house. I hope it hasn't been taken yet.

tlew12778

07-19-2005, 11:56 AM

I don't think the potion was the horcrux bc wouldn't RAB have had to drink it to get the locket horcrux? I did wonder about why they could not just dump it out but I am sure it would have refilled itself, just like how the water kept disappearing.

I like the idea that someone else mentioned that DD had to die in order to teach HP to hate. This is assuming HP will ever have to use an unforgiveable curse on a DE. As of OoTP he could use them bc he didn't mean it.

ShamrockBride

07-19-2005, 11:59 AM

I do think he has it hidden still, and I think Harry is going to find it during the summer. I believe he'll stop in to Sirius' house, where he will mourn, and remember the locket, maybe even find other relics, and realize that he can use Kreacher against V. Kreacher knows more about V than he has led on. I believe he helped Regulus (sp) to find the locket, and maybe more.

AttyGrl74

07-19-2005, 02:00 PM

I'm totally late here...

A thought (and I beg your forgiveness if this has already been mentioned):
- Book 7 will take place over the summer and stuff will be resolved before Hogwarts opens again in the fall.

A question (again - I apologize if this was discussed!)
- Did DD ever explain the hand injury?

I read this very quickly and in-between baby-naps and diaper changes, so I probably missed that...

emschwar

07-19-2005, 02:07 PM

Did DD ever explain the hand injury?
Yup, he said it was caused by the ring horcrux, and would have killed him if not for snape.

hockeybrat

07-19-2005, 02:07 PM

A question (again - I apologize if this was discussed!)
- Did DD ever explain the hand injury?

It was from the Horcrux that was inside the ring. He explained it to Harry in one of the chapters. I don't have my book handy but I did remember reading it.

Emilie

07-19-2005, 02:42 PM

I agree that DD knew he had to drink the potion It may have just refilled the basin if he tried to dump it on the ground, and he probably knew that. As for Petunia being a member of the OoTP I have thought that through. It is entirely possible... look how clean her house is. Maybe Voldemort was the reason she turned away from magic, maybe she was scared... I guess that would make Dudley a squib... teehee

I cannot remember which book it is in but Petunia RAILS on magic. Talking about how proud Mom and Dad were when Lily got the letter and how her freak friends came home every holiday. I doubt she was ever magic, goodness knows she is ticked about it if she is!

hockeybrat

07-19-2005, 02:52 PM

I cannot remember which book it is in but Petunia RAILS on magic. Talking about how proud Mom and Dad were when Lily got the letter and how her freak friends came home every holiday. I doubt she was ever magic, goodness knows she is ticked about it if she is!

She seems to rail on magic in every book except this one. I can picture her looking like she just sucked on a lemon or something. I too, doubt that she was ever involved in magic.

Rosebud

07-20-2005, 10:16 AM

Just finished the book last night. Cried through the last several chapters. So, so sad that Dumbledore is gone. I mean, it makes sense that it had to happen. In other stories like this, the "mentor" always has to die so that the hero can stand on his own. Still, it's awful. :(

Some thoughts:

- I agree with everyone else who thinks that Dumbledore & Snape have an agreement we're not privy to yet. I don't think Snape is evil... I think he is honoring some kind of pact he had made with DD. We won't know the details until book 7. And yes, I do think that DD and Snape are protecting Draco.

- Did anyone else think that maybe Harry will eventually take Dumbledore's place at Hogwarts? He says he wants to be an auror, but we know he doesn't have a *real* talent for potions. While Harry is too young now, he may make it his long-term plan to take over at Hogwarts, the place he has loved more than any other.

- RAB has got to be Regulus Black. It makes sense that at least one of the remaining horcruxes would be at the house at Grimmauld Place. However, don't you think the whole subplot about Mundungus stealing things hints that maybe the horcruxes have been removed? He probably didn't know what they were when he was stealing them. I bet Harry goes to Grimmauld Place expecting to find the horcruxes, only to find that Mundungus has taken them elsewhere. Need to re-read all the Mundungus stuff more carefully.

- As for JK Rowling's statement that we will see more of one member of The Order of the Phoenix.... I'm confused as to who is going to become important. Here are some known members of TOotP:

Sirius Black (dead), Dedalus Diggle, Elphias Doge, Dumbledore (dead), Arabella Figg, Mundungus Fletcher, Hagrid, Hestia Jones, Lupin, McGonagall, Moody, Sturgis, Podmore, Kingsley Shacklebolt, Snape, Tonks, Emmeline Vance, Arthur-Molly-Bill-Charlie Weasley.

I think McGonagall has got to play a larger role in book 7, but I don't know if she's the one JKR means.

- re: Petunia and the Dursleys. I just don't buy them suddenly becoming "good" or learning to love Harry. I don't think JKR would completely change the nature of these 3 characters in the final book. I would believe that Petunia gives Harry some information about Lily, especially since Dumbledore insists that Harry return to Privet Drive - and there's got to be a reason for that- but I don't think any of the Dursleys is going to be rushing to save Harry in the final book.

CAN'T WAIT for the next book. Hopefully it won't be so darn SAD!

lorialys

07-20-2005, 10:25 AM

Just finished the book last night, and read through this entire thread this morning. Have to say, you ladies opened up quite a few thoughts on the book! Love the Regulus connection, I bet you are right. Totally think that Snape and Dumbledore were in on his death now...

- As for JK Rowling's statement that we will see more of one member of The Order of the Phoenix.... I'm confused as to who is going to become important. Here are some known members of TOotP:

Sirius Black (dead), Dedalus Diggle, Elphias Doge, Dumbledore (dead), Arabella Figg, Mundungus Fletcher, Hagrid, Hestia Jones, Lupin, McGonagall, Moody, Sturgis, Podmore, Kingsley Shacklebolt, Snape, Tonks, Emmeline Vance, Arthur-Molly-Bill-Charlie Weasley.

I think McGonagall has got to play a larger role in book 7, but I don't know if she's the one JKR means.

Maybe Arabella Figg? Ever since Harry found out about her being a Squibb in OoTP, I've wanted for him to go visit her and learn some more about why she never told him she was in the wizarding world, in contact with Dumbledore, etc. Maybe she has some kind of connection to Petunia and Lily?

emschwar

07-20-2005, 10:27 AM

CAN'T WAIT for the next book. Hopefully it won't be so darn SAD!
DH told me that JKR isn't even going to start writing 7 until next year! She wants to spend time with her kids. Sheesh.

PG-rated

07-20-2005, 10:34 AM

*sigh* You guys already posted most of my good ideas!

Here's my prediction (don't think I've seen it here yet): Not only will Snape prove faithful to Dumbledore in the end (I agree with everyone who said he knew that it would happen exactly this way), but he will end up joining forces with Harry to defeat Voldemort. I actually think Draco's evilness is a big red herring - I don't think he will be instrumental to the finale at all. I think Dumbledore talked him out of murder just because he didn't want to see him travel any further down the Death Eater path.

I was late to work this morning finishing it, and all I want to do is get home so I can reread it!

hockeybrat

07-20-2005, 10:38 AM

One of the things I posted on Mugglenet was about Snape: (paraphrasing a bit)

I have made the mistake of categorizing Snape as either good or bad; good meaning side with Harry Potter and the Order and bad meaning the Death Eaters and Voldemort.

I have to keep reminding myself there is more than just good and bad. Snape might ultimately wind up doing good but his methods in getting there might not be. I still think there was some sort of agreement between Dumbledore and himself with DD using Snape's strengths as a means of fulfilling this agreement.

dionysia

07-20-2005, 10:42 AM

I personally think Snape in conflicted (hockeybrat's shades of gray); he probably takes a lot of his hatred of James out on Harry. Draco really is the boy Snape always wished he was: a pureblood who fights back.

Di

Noa

07-20-2005, 10:58 AM

OMG, I just finished reading the book and loved it! I actually tried to make the reading experience last as long as possible, so I limited myself to a couple of chapters a day. I was bawling my eyes out last night in bed when I finished the last chapters... I can't believe Dumbeldore is dead!!!! And I definitely think he IS dead, especially since his portrait appeared in the headmasters' office.

Props to whoever thought of the Regulus connection. I laid in bed last night running names through my head, trying to think who it could be. Also- I don't think Harry is a horcruxes because of the prophecy "neither can live while the other survives". If he was a horcruxes, Voldermot COULD survive if Harry lived because part of V would be inside of Harry.

Anyways- I enjoyed reading everyones thoughts... Now I am going through withdrawl!!