Why Faith-based Initiatives Might Not Be Such a Great Idea

[LittleFredPunkinHead]

Adoption Agency Rejects Catholic Parents (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/15/AR2005071501091.html) Washington Post
A Christian adoption agency that receives money from Choose Life license plate fees said it does not place children with Roman Catholic couples because their religion conflicts with the agency's "Statement of Faith."

Bethany Christian Services stated the policy in a letter to a Jackson couple this month, and another Mississippi couple said they were rejected for the same reason last year.

[UTChick]

Wow. I just don't even know what to say.

The article does not explain their (the agency's) logic. I would be interested to know exactly what in the faith statement goes against Catholicism or vice versa. I am not Catholic and am not familiar with all aspects of the denomination, but I am certain Catholicism is in line with the faith statement given in the article.

Amazing...

[camberne]

Based on the article and the fact that their statement is about Jesus Christ erasing sins, I could "understand" if they were trying to discriminate against adopting out to Jewish people (although I don't agree with that line of thought); however, Catholics? I'm really wondering much more about what the REAL reasons were... Catholic and interratial? Catholic, but non-practicing? There has to be something more, doesn't there? What in the Catholic faith have they specifically said that "goes against their statement of faith"?

[wendalah]

I support faith-based initiatives, however,

"Catholic and interratial? Catholic, but non-practicing? There has to be something more, doesn't there? "

No, there doesn't. Certain sects of Christianity do not respect Catholicism as a true Christian faith; in fact, they think it's an aberration of Christianity brought about by Satan.

[Annette]

If they are getting public funds, doesn't that mean they are not allowed to discriminate?

[Larissa]

There's an ad for Bethany Christian Adoption Services on the sidebar of this page...which I find amusing!

[chefker]

Apparently it doesn't matter about placing kids into a good home anymore?
I don't get their reasoning about discriminating against Catholics, at all.

There are so many misconceptions about Catholicism, it never ceases to amaze me. Wendalah, I never heard that about some sects believing Catholicism is Satan influenced.

Sometimes it gets old, feeling shame that I'm a Catholic. Oh well...

[chefker]

OK, out of curiosity, I read Bethany's 'statement of faith'. This is it, in its entirety:

Bethany Christian Services is founded upon the Scriptures which reveal the triune God. Members of the national board, local boards, staff and adoptive applicants indicate their personal agreement with Bethany’s Statement of Faith by signing below.

I believe that the sovereign, triune God created the world out of nothing and sustains His creation. The heavens and earth are His handiwork. He made man and woman in His image and likeness as the crown of creation. All creation reflects His greatness and power.

I believe that God created the family, giving Adam and Eve the responsibility to conceive, bear and nurture children. As the creator of life, God Himself begins each human life at conception and gives to each person, as His image bearer, meaning, dignity and value.

I believe that sin entered the world when Adam and Eve disobeyed God and sought to be independent of Him. As a result of this Fall, all people are estranged from God and live in a world permeated by sin.

I believe that God, by His grace, provided redemption and restoration in Jesus Christ for all who repent and believe. As the Savior, Jesus takes away the sins of the world. Jesus is the one in whom we are called to put our hope, our only hope for forgiveness of sin and for reconciliation with God and with one another.

I believe that in all matters of faith and life, the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the final authority. The Scriptures point us with full reliability to Jesus, God’s Son. The Scriptures tell us that we receive forgiveness of sins by faith in Jesus Christ, and that God provides salvation by grace alone for those who repent and believe.

I believe that forgiveness comes through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, God’s Son, who was made flesh, took our place in death, rose from the dead, and is now in glory with the Father interceding and praying for His people.

I believe that God, through His Spirit, lovingly calls, redeems and adopts us into His family, the Church and that, in gratitude for God’s saving love in Christ, we are called to live a life of faithfulness and obedience according to the scriptures.

I believe that Jesus, through His Spirit, is presently directing God’s work of making all things new.

I believe that the Christian Church, as the community of believers, has an obligation to protect, preserve, and enhance life as fully as possible for each person, born and unborn, from the beginning to the end of life. As Christians we are called to a life of faith into an ongoing ministry until that mission is completed by the coming of the Kingdom in its fullness. The Holy Spirit empowers us to fulfill that calling.

I, along with all followers of Christ, believe and wait expectantly for the triumphant return of Jesus Christ our King. At that time, I believe that Jesus Christ will gather us to Himself as one complete family and will, throughout eternity, fully enhance the lives of His children as citizens of His kingdom, sons and daughters in our Father’s house. As His children we long hopefully for that day to appear and we face that day without fear, for the Judge is our Savior and Lord. To Him be the glory.

Approved: September 15, 1987 Bethany Christian Services National Board
Revised & Approved: July 15, 2003 Bethany Christian Services National Board
Revised & Approved: January 18, 2005 Bethany Christian Services National Board

****************
I don't see anything here that isn't a Catholic belief. Are they assuming all Catholics are child molesters, or something like that? :confused: (owing to the Catholic priest/pedophilia scandal(s), which is pretty much common knowledge). I'm at a loss here...just a general 'Catholicism doesn't agree with our statement of faith" is intentionally vaguge, IMO.

[MLA]

I don't see anything here that isn't a Catholic belief. Are they assuming all Catholics are child molesters, or something like that? :confused: (owing to the Catholic priest/pedophilia scandal(s), which is pretty much common knowledge). I'm at a loss here...just a general 'Catholicism doesn't agree with our statement of faith" is intentionally vaguge, IMO.


I don't think it's that catholics don't believe the same things. I think the problem is in some additional beliefs and practices of catholics. I'm not entirely sure of this, but I've heard that some Christian sects have real problems with Catholic saints. The sects that have a problem with this consider the saints to be false idols.

Maybe that's the problem they have?

Whatever the reason, I don't believe an agency like this should receive public funds since they're so clearly discriminating against a group of people.

[chefker]

ITA with that. If they're getting private money, IMO they can do whatever they want really, without repercussions. But if they're getting public monies, and then discriminating against certain groups of people outright, they're just ASKING for a lawsuit. (Not sure WHAT type of monies they get---public or private donations, it didn't seem too clear...)

Hm. When I was in catechism, the saints were presented as 'role models', not a false god or anything like that. But I can see where someone who has misconceptions about Catholicism in the first place, might get that impression.

[wendalah]

Fundamentalist Christians have various problems with Catholicism: Saints, praying to Mary, the leadership of the Pope, transubstantiation, etc. You can get a quick and dirty lesson by going here:

http://www.chick.com/information/religions/catholicism/

This link is particularly easy to follow and somewhat amusing if you are secure in your faith, but I admit it scared me a little.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp

[mmeblue]

From the statement of faith that chefker quoted above:
I believe that in all matters of faith and life, the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the final authority.
I think this may be a key issue. Catholicism relies on the Scriptures AND on church tradition, whereas Protestantism holds to the idea of "Sola Scriptura" - Scripture alone.

The Christian school where I teach underwent a struggle last year dealing with a similar line in our statement of faith. Without getting into too many details, it had said something to the effect of "The Bible is the infallible and inerrant word of God," and it was changed to add "and the sole authority for faith and practice" at the end. Some of the Catholic families left the school because they felt it would be inconsistent to send their kids to a school that differed with their beliefs on that issue; some of them stayed because it wasn't as big of a deal to them. (Teachers have to sign the statement of faith, and parents have to sign an affirmation of the statement of faith, basically saying that they understand that these are the beliefs the school holds to.)

That may not be the only point, but it is one that I've experienced as an issue between Protestants and Catholics.

[chefker]

Fundamentalist Christians have various problems with Catholicism: Saints, praying to Mary, the leadership of the Pope, transubstantiation, etc. You can get a quick and dirty lesson by going here:

http://www.chick.com/information/religions/catholicism/

This link is particularly easy to follow and somewhat amusing if you are secure in your faith, but I admit it scared me a little.

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0074/0074_01.asp


Oh my. Reading further, I learned that the "present recession and economic situation" was caused by the Vatican! Who knew. :)

The guy also says that Catholics believe the pope to be a representative of Jesus Christ. Not me....I see him as a representative of the Catholic CHURCH.

Interesting reading though!

[wendalah]

It is, isn't it?
My MIL is born-again and my hubby was raised learning this stuff. He has a lot of those little comic books. He showed them to me, expecting me to laugh at them, but the Catholic ones scared me. I hadn't realized that I (as a Catholic) was being judged by some Christians until then. (Not all Christians think like this.)

[LittleFredPunkinHead]

I wonder... If they won't adopt out to Catholics, then I wouldn't imagine they'd adopt out to Muslims, or Jews, or atheists either? Because clearly anybody with those beliefs wouldn't fit their value system...

[wander_woman]

Well, this isn't really a faith-based initiative. The article says that they do not receive any public money. If that's the case, then I don't really have a problem with them discriminating against certain faiths. I certainly don't agree with it, and I think it's sad to keep children from parents that clearly want to adopt them just because of differences in religion, but what they're doing is legal. As long as the Mississippi office's finances are completely separate from the other offices (some of which do receive public money), I'm ok with it. Private faith-based organizations are fine. What I disagree with are government-funded faith-based initiatives.

[LittleFredPunkinHead]

Well, this isn't really a faith-based initiative. The article says that they do not receive any public money.
It depends on what your definition is for public money. They received money generated by a state-sponsored program (the Choose Life plates), which sounds like public money to me.

[miel]

That Chick pamphlet is so crazy...so basically he is saying that the early church...for the first 1400 years...was just an evil conspiracy. Most of the history of Christianity has been a plot of the devil. Hmmmmm.

[chefker]

It depends on what your definition is for public money. They received money generated by a state-sponsored program (the Choose Life plates), which sounds like public money to me.

It's very interesting. Bethany is claiming on one hand, that they don't receive any public money. Yet seeing as some of their money comes from the sale of the 'Choose Life' plates--um, isn't the DMV run by the STATE? It certainly is where I live. :rolleyes:

I've been reading further on the subject, and some pro-choicers wanted a simliar option for a license tag (seeing as "Choose Life" was allowed). The pro-lifers were shot down. I'll have to see if I can find the article I was just viewing.

[bethnjim]

I have a few comments about this.

1. Most Christian families/girls will NOT adopt out to just any old religion. Jews, Muslims, Atheist, etc would not be "allowed" to adopt a Christian born baby because the families would be in fear knowing that their child was being brought up to NOT believe in Jesus Christ thus sending the child to hell. It is pretty plain and simple and straight cut with most Christians. It doesn't matter how nice a Muslim couple or Jewish couple or Catholic couple is, they are not able to raise the baby in the Christian way that the birth mother wants. I believe the whole basis of the adoption agency is so Christian mothers can give their children to Christian parents...

2. Just because a company uses...lets say license plates...and makes a nominal profit, that does not give the government the right to have any say in what that company does or does not do. Breast cancer research could not be controlled by the government just because they make a small profit off of the license plates...bad example, but hopefully that makes sense. My mom teaches at a Christian school and they do not allow any government funded projects into the school because they don't want the government to have any control. The government actually has to give aid in some way financially to a company before they have the right to say anything...and they do not FUND it by allowing license plates to be sold...

3. There are quite a few issues with the Catholic church that are questionable to the Christian church. I really don't want to go into all of them, but I can understand why many Christians don't embrace the Catholic church...of course, some of it goes back YEARS...and YEARS...

[bethnjim]

UPDATE FROM BETHANY'S WEBSITE:

BETHANY CHRISTIAN SERVICES OF MISSISSIPPI
VOTES TO SERVE CATHOLIC FAMILIES


Grand Rapids, MI-- July 20, 2005 --The local Board of Directors for Bethany Christian Services of Mississippi met in Jackson on July 19, and voted unanimously to change their practice to now include Catholic families in all adoption programs. “The Board in Mississippi responded appropriately and is now consistent with Bethany’s national practice,” said Glenn DeMots, President and CEO of Bethany Christian Services.

The National Board of Bethany Christian Services also met July 19, in Grand Rapids, Michigan and unanimously voted to reaffirm that “All families in agreement with the agency’s Statement of Faith, including Catholic families, are eligible to adopt.” The Board also stated that all Bethany offices will comply with this practice. “We are sorry for offending families and all partners of Bethany, and regret any pain and hurt caused by this issue,” said DeMots.

Bethany offices throughout the United States have worked with Catholic families for years. Statistics show that over 16 percent of Bethany’s adoptions in 2004 were with Catholic families. “Bethany has and will continue to place children with loving Christian families,” added DeMots.

Recently, the Stedman family was denied services from Bethany Christian Services of Mississippi on the basis of their Catholic faith. “We are pleased that Bethany listened to our concerns and made the change to work with Catholic families,” said Robert Stedman. “Bethany does admirable work and we can now be supportive of this pro-life ministry.” Sandy Stedman adds, “This decision by Bethany speaks volumes. We hope and pray this unites Christians.”

Bethany Christian Services is a Christ-centered, not-for-profit, pro-life, adoption and family services agency with over 75 locations in 32 states and ministries in 15 other countries. In addition to adoption services, Bethany provides birthparent counseling, family counseling, foster care programs, refugee services, and an infertility ministry called Stepping Stones. In 2004, Bethany placed 1,840 children (domestic and international) with their adoptive families and served over 10,000 children through other ministries. Bethany Christian Services was founded in 1944 and is headquartered in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

[paiger]

I've been reading further on the subject, and some pro-choicers wanted a simliar option for a license tag (seeing as "Choose Life" was allowed). The pro-lifers were shot down. I'll have to see if I can find the article I was just viewing.
In SC, Planned Parenthood was very active in getting the Choose Life plates taken from the possible plates list. A R Sate Representative wanted to have an alternate plate for prochoice supporters that literally said: Anti-Life :eek:. Needless to say PPH won out to have that option shot down. Some people truly amaze me.

[LittleFredPunkinHead]

Most Christian families/girls will NOT adopt out to just any old religion. Jews, Muslims, Atheist, etc would not be "allowed" to adopt a Christian born baby because the families would be in fear knowing that their child was being brought up to NOT believe in Jesus Christ thus sending the child to hell. It is pretty plain and simple and straight cut with most Christians. It doesn't matter how nice a Muslim couple or Jewish couple or Catholic couple is, they are not able to raise the baby in the Christian way that the birth mother wants. I believe the whole basis of the adoption agency is so Christian mothers can give their children to Christian parents...
Most Christian families/girls? No way. Respectfully, I disagree. Strongly.
My mom teaches at a Christian school and they do not allow any government funded projects into the school because they don't want the government to have any control. The government actually has to give aid in some way financially to a company before they have the right to say anything...and they do not FUND it by allowing license plates to be sold...
Again, I disagree. The government is giving aid financially by administering the program through which these plates are sold.
There are quite a few issues with the Catholic church that are questionable to the Christian church. I really don't want to go into all of them, but I can understand why many Christians don't embrace the Catholic church...of course, some of it goes back YEARS...and YEARS...
There is no "Christian church," as such. There is Christianity the religion, of which Catholicism is a part. Maybe you're referring to some certain denominations of Christianity, but not Christianity as a whole.

[bethnjim]

Most Christian families/girls? No way. Respectfully, I disagree. Strongly.

I was being generous with MOST...I personally do not know one girl that considers herself to be a Baptist, Luthern, non-denom Christian that would consider giving their baby to a Muslim to raise in the Muslim belief. Maybe you do, which would be the other girls. I didn't say ALL, I just said MOST.

As for Christian churches, you are correct, I should have said, Baptist, Luthern, Methodist, Southern Baptist, Non-Denom...etc...

[paiger]

I was being generous with MOST...I personally do not know one girl that considers herself to be a Baptist, Luthern, non-denom Christian that would consider giving their baby to a Muslim to raise in the Muslim belief. Maybe you do, which would be the other girls. I didn't say ALL, I just said MOST.

As for Christian churches, you are correct, I should have said, Baptist, Luthern, Methodist, Southern Baptist, Non-Denom...etc...
I wouldn't have even said most. I only know a very few people that would be so discriminatory. I would definitely not be against having my child adopted by a Muslim family who would raise them with all the ideals and good natured traits that they would get from going to a Christian church.

[LittleFredPunkinHead]

I was being generous with MOST...I personally do not know one girl that considers herself to be a Baptist, Luthern, non-denom Christian that would consider giving their baby to a Muslim to raise in the Muslim belief. Maybe you do, which would be the other girls. I didn't say ALL, I just said MOST.
Maybe most of those within your circle of acquaintance, but again, I strongly disagree with the idea that most Christians would give up a baby for adoption only to a Christian family.
As for Christian churches, you are correct, I should have said, Baptist, Luthern, Methodist, Southern Baptist, Non-Denom...etc...
Wait, are you saying that all of those denominations have big issues with the Catholic church? Because I'm quite sure that the Evangelical Lutheran church and the Episcopal church are fairly friendly with the Catholic church. And would consider their churches closer to the Catholic church than to- say- a Baptist church, for instance.

[Chris'slady]

LittleFredPUMpkinHEad i think your icon is cute.

[paiger]

Wait, are you saying that all of those denominations have big issues with the Catholic church? Because I'm quite sure that the Evangelical Lutheran church and the Episcopal church are fairly friendly with the Catholic church. And would consider their churches closer to the Catholic church than to- say- a Baptist church, for instance.
As a past Methodist now Episcopal church-goer with lots of Lutheran friends (close to both denoms), I can assure you that the Episcopal, Methodist and Lutheran churches do not in any way have a problem w/ the Catholic church. I have many Baptist friends that I have never heard say anything about the Catholic church, but I also recognize there are many various types of the Baptist church so I can't speak for those.

ETA: personally, I feel that there are few highly recognized (common denominations that are in all cities) Protestant churches that have a problem with the catholic church. IMO, it is individual people that would say that have big issues and more evangelical denominations. When I say big issues, I mean being discriminatory and not considering them to be Christian. I can't lie and say I've never told a Catholic joke before (DH is Catholic).

[wendalah]

Depends...my grandma is Lutheran and she was horribly upset when my father converted to Catholicism. She prays nightly we all convert back. But as a whole I wouldn't say there's a great animosity.

[paiger]

Depends...my grandma is Lutheran and she was horribly upset when my father converted to Catholicism. She prays nightly we all convert back. But as a whole I wouldn't say there's a great animosity.
I don't consider this to be a 'big issue'. I would imagine that people like your Grandma would be happy for a child up for adoption being taken by a Catholic family. My mother didn't want me to convert to Catholicism (sp) for DH, and I wouldn't have. But, this doesn't mean that I in any way have a problem or issue w/ them. I consider them to be just as Christian as Protestants.

[wendalah]

I said I didn't think there was a great overall animosity. But just pointing out that half my family is Lutheran and they aren't too keen on the Catholic thing. That's all.

[Chris'slady]

Adoption Agency Rejects Catholic Parents Washington Post

Quote:
A Christian adoption agency that receives money from Choose Life license plate fees said it does not place children with Roman Catholic couples because their religion conflicts with the agency's "Statement of Faith."

Bethany Christian Services stated the policy in a letter to a Jackson couple this month, and another Mississippi couple said they were rejected for the same reason last year.

__________________


I personally think this is crazy that a agency would do this. wether you have a religion or not I don't think it matters, I think it should be if you are a great couple who will be great parents and love that child like you birthed them and teach them from right and wrong.

[paiger]

I said I didn't think there was a great overall animosity. But just pointing out that half my family is Lutheran and they aren't too keen on the Catholic thing. That's all.
I just re-read and put this into context with my previous post, and when I said the Lutheran Church before I meant the entire church like the administration not memberwise. You probably knew that, but I just wanted to clarify as I wasn't trying to speak for all members but the 'church in the national views' sense.

[Chris'slady]

ardathpaige. u live in nc? i think i have talked to you about sandals before?

[paiger]

ardathpaige. u live in nc? i think i have talked to you about sandals before?
yes and yes

[Chris'slady]

yes and yes

I knew your name looked famaliar.
We decided not to go, too many people told us alot of bad stuff about that particular one. they weer on the better business bureau so i did'nt want to worry about stuff on my honeymoon, thanks for givign me all the info you did it helped a bunch.!!!!

[kiddo]

[QUOTE=bethnjim
As for Christian churches, you are correct, I should have said, Baptist, Luthern, Methodist, Southern Baptist, Non-Denom...etc...[/QUOTE]

You do understand that the Catholic Church is a Christian church, right????

My sister married a Lutheran, they got married in the Catholic church, their son was baptised in the Catholic church. My sister's inlaws are very devout Lutherans and they had no problem with this.

The Episcopal church recognizes the Catholic sacrements and vice versa, so I don't think they have a problem with the Catholic church.

I think it is horrible the agency would alienate anyone based on religion. If it is important to a pregnant mother that her child should be adopted by a Christian (be it Baptist, Lutheran, Catholic, etc.) then she can make that decision on her own.

[PG-rated]

The Episcopal church recognizes the Catholic sacrements and vice versa, so I don't think they have a problem with the Catholic church.
The vice versa part isn't quite true - the Catholic church won't invite Episcopalians to communion (even though Orthodox Christians are welcome), and if a Catholic marries an Episcopalian in the Episcopal church, the Catholic church won't recognize it as a valid marriage. Rebaptism isn't required for conversion, though.

Anyway, I'm really glad to hear this group has changed its policy, but I doubt it changes the feelings of the leaders who adopted the policy in the first place.

[wendalah]

"if a Catholic marries an Episcopalian in the Episcopal church, the Catholic church won't recognize it as a valid marriage."

Yup, this is true. They'll recognize it legally but that is all. So is the part about communion.

ETA: This is not to say that the Catholic church will not recognize you are married. They will just not recognize the marriage as a Catholic marriage.

[kiddo]

PG you're right, I know that they are not quite "interchangeable" per say, but there is some kind of recognition, just not sure how it works.

Like Episcopal priests can marry. If a married Episc. priest converts to Catholicism, he could be a married Catholic priest.

[wendalah]

"If a married Episc. priest converts to Catholicism, he could be a married Catholic priest."

Ay! No! To clear up confusion--first of all, he'd have to go through seminary training and be ordained to be a Catholic priest. Second of all, he couldn't be a Catholic priest and be married...at least not one recognized by the Pope.

[amorey]

"If a married Episc. priest converts to Catholicism, he could be a married Catholic priest."

Ay! No! To clear up confusion--first of all, he'd have to go through seminary training and be ordained to be a Catholic priest. Second of all, he couldn't be a Catholic priest and be married...at least not one recognized by the Pope.

There are a few married priest out there like that. They're real priest in communion with Rome. My aunt is a Catholic writer, and she has done some pieces on them. I can find some sources, if you'd like.

We used to have a divorced priest with kids. He was an Episcopalian minister, got divorced, and became a priest.

[wendalah]

How do they reconcile with Rome? I thought that was a huge no-no.

I haven't heard of any priests with kids, personally (that's interesting), but I can see where that might happen, as I never heard it was forbidden to be divorced in your past.

[chefker]

Very interesting.

I do know of a Catholic nun, who left her nun-dom (for lack of a better word :)), and after a few years married and had children. She was still allowed to be a eucharistic minister in the Catholic church--although I am certain there are some parishes within our Diocese that might not have allowed her to serve Communion!

I'm not sure how that works with Catholic priests though--especially one that's been married, then divorced, with children. Especially if he was originally married in the Catholic church, where divorce is still frowned upon.

[amew]

I have a friend whose father is a Catholic priest. He married and had two kids, then felt called to the priesthood, divorced his wife, and became a priest. He is on close terms with his ex-wife and children. I am not sure how the Catholic views on divorce fit into the mix.

[bookworm]

How do they reconcile with Rome? I thought that was a huge no-no.

I haven't heard of any priests with kids, personally (that's interesting), but I can see where that might happen, as I never heard it was forbidden to be divorced in your past.

I'm not sure about the logic, but I've heard of a case like this too--someone was a non-Catholic priest (maybe Orthodox?), converted, remained a priest, and stayed married. If his wife died, he would not be allowed to remarry.

I think he must have been Orthodox, b/c that would fit in line with the Catholic church recognizing the sacrements (i.e. Holy Orders) of the Orthodox church.

[kiddo]

The chaplain at my cousin's college was a former married Episc. priest and became a RC priest and stayed married.

While a converting Episc. priest would have to learn the catechism of the RC church, I don't believe they have to go through the seminary like a brand new priest would. At least that's what my RC priest told me.

[kiddo]

I do know of a Catholic nun, who left her nun-dom (for lack of a better word ), and after a few years married and had children. She was still allowed to be a eucharistic minister in the Catholic church--although I am certain there are some parishes within our Diocese that might not have allowed her to serve Communion!

My neighbor was a RC priest who left the priesthood and later married (in the RC church) and had children. He, too, was a eucharistic minister. Do you know for sure what parishes would be against this? I would be surprised if they would be.

[amorey]

I got an email back from my aunt on the married priest bit:

In answer to your question about married priests, it has happened more frequently than most people know. There has been a great deal of change in the Episcopal and Anglican churches with women in the priesthood and views on homosexuality and a number of people desiring to come into union with the Roman Catholic Church. Because these are the closest in theology to the Catholic Church, through a special pastoral provision of the Holy Father, it is possible for these married priests of other religions to become priests in the Roman Catholic faith. Of course there have long been married priest in the Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church.

Here’s a little something I found that might help explain a little better:

Pope John Paul II, through the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, issued a clear although brief statement in June 1980.

Concerning married Episcopalian clergy becoming Catholic priests, "the Holy See has specified that this exception to the rule of celibacy is granted in favor of these individual persons, and should not be understood as implying any change in the Church's conviction of the value of priestly celibacy, which will remain the rule for future candidates for the priesthood from this group."

In other words, an ordained Episcopalian minister would make a profession of Faith and be received into the Catholic Church, and thereupon receive the Sacrament of Confirmation. He would then take appropriate courses which would enable him to minister as a Catholic priest.

After proper examination by his Catholic bishop and with the permission of the Holy Father, he would be then ordained first as a Catholic transitional deacon and then as a priest. If the former Episcopalian minister were single at the time of his ordination as a Catholic deacon and then priest, he would indeed take the vow of celibacy. If the married former Episcopalian minister were ordained as a Catholic deacon and then priest, he would be exempt by a special favor from the Holy Father of making the promise of celibacy; however, if he later became a widower, then he would be bound to a celibate lifestyle and could not remarry.

There are pastors of other faiths that can also become Catholic priests under very special circumstances. In addition, men who are widowers or who have obtained an annulment can also become priests, but are then required to take the vow of celibacy. I did a story for Credo some years ago about a man who had 10 children and when his wife died, he became a priest and then helped vest his son who also became a priest. I think I headlined it: Like Father Father, Like Father Son.

[ysolde]

"if a Catholic marries an Episcopalian in the Episcopal church, the Catholic church won't recognize it as a valid marriage."

Yup, this is true. They'll recognize it legally but that is all. So is the part about communion.

ETA: This is not to say that the Catholic church will not recognize you are married. They will just not recognize the marriage as a Catholic marriage.

Well, they won't recognize it as a Catholic sacramental marriage, to be precise. OTOH, there are people who are married in RC churches who don't have sacramental marriages, either -- an example is my cousin, who married her Jewish husband in a RC church and ceremony. They had a RC wedding, but, technically, no sacramental marriage, since he is not RC.

[wendalah]

"an example is my cousin, who married her Jewish husband in a RC church and ceremony. They had a RC wedding, but, technically, no sacramental marriage, since he is not RC."

This is my situation, exactly. I was not told that my marriage was not a sacrament because he was not Catholic. My mother also married a non-Catholic (my dad, a Lutheran at the time) and to my knowledge the same thing. If this is true, I am very surprised because as a Catholic this seems like something the priest would DEFINITELY point out.

I will have to call my mom and ask her because back in 1961 things were even stricter. They had a full mass but were not allowed on the altar, that is all I recall.

I had a Rite of Marriage, not a full mass, but nobody told me that it wasn't a sacrament. Again, I'm VERY surprised that the priest would not point this out to someone who was raised in the church and was very adamant about having a Catholic marriage despite religious conflict (my DH's family were upset about our choice and I had to work closely with the priest to come up with a solution to our problem.)

I didn't realize that marriage was discounted as a sacrament just because one partner is not Catholic--does anyone else have experience with this?

[wendalah]

I am disturbed and just called my mother and asked if the priest said anything to her about this when she married my father. She said, "I have a sacramental marriage, believe me." (Sorry, that's my mom for ya.)

[amorey]

As far as I know, when a Catholic marries a non-Catholic in the Church, it's a sacrament. This is why the non-Catholic has to sign that thing that says they will raise the kids in the Church. I don't understand why a priest would preside over a non-sacramental marriage. I mean, wouldn't that be like him saying, "Go forth and live in sin!"

[ysolde]

Yup. I'm afraid I did not put that quite right. Marriages between R. Catholics and non-baptized people are non-sacramental:

2. Do Catholics ever validly enter into non-sacramental marriages?

Yes. Marriages between Catholics and non-Christians, while they may still be valid in the eyes of the Church, are non-sacramental. With permission, a priest or deacon may witness such marriages.

Source:

http://www.orlandodiocese.org/services/family_life/marriage_prep.htm

From that same source, see also:

11. What is a Nuptial Mass and when can a couple have one?

A Nuptial Mass is a Mass which includes the celebration of the sacrament of marriage. It has special readings and prayers suitable to the Sacrament of Marriage. The Sacrament of Marriage between two baptized Catholics should normally be celebrated within Mass.

If the situation warrants it and the local bishop gives permission, a Nuptial Mass may be celebrated for a marriage between a Catholic and a baptized person who is not a Catholic, except that Communion is not given to the non-Catholic since the general law of the church does not allow it. In such instances, it is better to use the appropriate ritual for marriage outside Mass. This is always the case in a marriage between a baptized Catholic and a non-baptized person.