Price for Suzuki music lessons?

[LeighW]

I thought there was an old thread on music lessons for kids (what's a good starting age) but it's not coming up.

Is anyone familiar with pricing for Suzuki music lessons?

My DD3's preschool is offering group violin lessons this fall. It seems very expensive to me--$675 per "semester" plus various activity and registration fees and $25 per month for the instrument rental. I think a semester includes 16 lessons, but it might be shorter for DD's school since it appears they will be starting a little late.

If this price is for 16 lessons, then the per-lesson cost is $37.50 plus the instrument rental. That seems pretty expensive to me, especially for a group (not private) lesson. For 3-year olds . . . .

I'm all for exposing kids to music. I would have been prepared to sign my DD up, even though I'm not a huge Suzuki fan, just to give her some experience. But, $1500 freaking dollars (for the school year), plus another $250 to rent a violin?

Am I way off base to think it's so expensive it's laughable?

[Neen]

My son takes private violin lessons for 30 minutes once a week. They cost $15 a lesson and if he has to miss a lesson (by us or his teacher) we don't have to pay for that lesson. He is borrowing his violin from the instructor (it was her daughters), but we do own a full size and 1/4 size violin (he is on the 1/2 size right now). She does teach out of the Suzuki book and it's been fine so far (he's play Bach at the moment).

I do think for group lessons that is expensive, but on the other hand, finding some one to do private lessons is hard. My son was on everyone's waiting list for almost 2 years before there was an opening (thank goodness it was with the top teacher on my list!). My son started lessons when he was 8.

From my experience and from what his teacher has said, 3 is very young to start on the violin. Some kids are a natural and pick up on it very quickly and some kids just don't care. The violin is a hard instrument to learn. (I love listening to my son play).

[Renrel]

I started the prior post and have no real experience to help you since I was the one seeking advice last time. All I can add is that I thought I read somewhere that it is not advisable to start kids on violin early because it can some how affect how the hands develop. I guess that is not really a problem if you have a gifted child whose life is obviously going to revolve around playing the violin, but would be more most kids. Maybe they now make violins that are OK for kids and that information is outdated and maybe I have it wrong all together, but you might want to do a little research to make sure. Other than that I can add that the music school in my area does not start kids on Suzuki violin until age 4 according to their flyer. I don't remember the price since I was not really intersted at this point.

[berry]

I have no idea on the pricing for lessons, but I do think that price sounds very high.

I will say that Suzuki group lessons are a huge part of the Suzuki culture. From a young age I had one or two private lessons a week as well as a group lesson (and later music theory.) So the idea of group lessons or that the pricing is for group lessons seems fairly normal to me.

Perhaps you could call a music teacher or school in your area to get an idea of other pricing?

[TaterBaby]

Thought I'd chime in as I used to teach Suzuki violin lessons...

I taught thru my church's performing arts program and I had the beginner class. The starting age was as soon as they were potty trained so we had some 2.5 year olds. :eek: It's all about repetition and I think the earlier the better, but 2.5 is a little too early for me. FWIW, I plan to start my future DD around age 4.

Each child had a 30 minute private lesson and a 30 minute group lesson per week. The price was $15/week. Granted, this was 9 years ago. I just looked up the current price and it is $22.50/week.

Are you required to rent the violin thru the school? If not, you may be able to find a less expensive option. They grow so quickly at that age, that I don't recommend purchasing one, except that for $250 you certainly could!

Also, from what I remember the Suzuki method = one private lesson per week, one group lesson per week, and daily "lessons" at home with a parent. For your school to charge so much and claim to be teaching the Suzuki method, they are lacking a huge portion of his teachings, i.e. the private lesson.

Please let me know if I can answer any more questions.

[berry]

Other threads with some music info/pricing:

http://www.constantchatter.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9679&highlight=music+class

http://www.constantchatter.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21761

[linda_loo]

It sounds really expensive to me, but I am biased, I wouldn't pay for Suzuki lessons anyhow. I would rather my children learn an instrument when they are old enough to express interest in the selection of it and to *read* notation, rather than learn by the Suzuki method.

If you do choose to do it, you can get a really nice violin from Southwest Strings for under $170 (http://www.swstrings.com/Store/Shopping.jsp?Category=Instruments&SubCategory=Violin&Group=105). I bought at least 10 of them, and a bunch of my students bought them, when I was teaching orchestra a couple years back. Great student violin, and SWS has good and fast service. Kids do outgrow them fast at your dd's age, but you shouldn't have any problem reselling the violin. They'll always be another 3 yo looking for an instrument, you could probably ask $125 for it.

http://www.swstrings.com/ImageServlet?Group=105&ImageSize=3&ExpandableImageIndex=0

[TaterBaby]

Ditto on Southwestern Strings and ditto on learning to read music! The church where I taught wasn't "hard core" Suzuki. We started the little ones with ear training and then as they got older, reading music was introduced and enforced.

[Littlelamb11]

It sounds really expensive to me, but I am biased, I wouldn't pay for Suzuki lessons anyhow. I would rather my children learn an instrument when they are old enough to express interest in the selection of it and to *read* notation, rather than learn by the Suzuki method.



Linda, i'm so glad you responded. I really wanted to hear some of your imput. Annabelle has been really pushing for violin lessons for the past several months. I was sort of ignoring it at first, thinking it would probably fade but her interest is only getting stronger. So, I've started casually looking for a teacher but i'm avoiding traditional Suzuki. I want her reading music as well as training her ear. I've heard from many of the professional musicians i work with--especially the violinists, that there is a sort of hybrid suzuki that is getting popular and that they highly recommend--where the kids are learning to read music pretty much right off the bat along with the ear training which would be the only way i would allow suzuki, but i'm having a hard time finding it. Everything around me is the strict intense suzuki.

As much as i value my own fine tuned ear abilities, i really find the ability to read music just as important. Because i started out playng by ear at a very young age and really developed my ear first before starting formal piano lessons and reading music at 5, my sight reading skills where piano is concerned have really suffered. I sight sing very well but as far as piano is concerned, I'm rather pathetic---even after about 15 years of piano lessons and like 27 years of playing the darn thing. :rolleyes: I really think my ear was too OVERLY developed by the time i started reading music and becuase of that, my ability to read music suffered. I'm going to do whatever i can to keep this from happening to Annabelle. :)

[LeighW]

Thanks for all the thoughts. I appreciate it.

It turns out the price is less than I thought, for more lessons, and they've offered me a discount. (So now it's just expensive, not outrageous.) So I'm actually considering it.

These are "individual" lessons--2 kids per pod, plus a group lesson, and they will teach them to read music later on, which is important to me. And they do ask parents to supervise 10-15 minutes of practice at home on 3-4 days per week. That seems like a lot to me, but she is certainly capable of concentrating that long if she wants to.

Linda, I was hoping you'd stop by. :) Thanks for the violin link. I will buy one if we do it.

I'm not sold on the Suzuki method, but, at this age, I'm really looking for exposure to music. And, of course, I'm getting completely sucked in by all the recent publicity regarding early music training = better brain development.

[LeighW]

Lisa,
I would certainly bow to your and Linda's superior music knowledge and skills ;) , but I would not be convinced that training by ear was that detrimental to your piano sight-reading abilities. I played the piano by ear from a young age, several years before I started lessons and learned to read music. I have always been a good sight-reader, in fact, it was my best skill during the 2 years when I was a music major (piano) in college.

On the other hand, I suck at sight singing and always have.

Anyway, just wanted to throw out my experience if that makes you more inclined to try a Suzuki or hybrid Suzuki approach.

[Littlelamb11]

Lisa,
I would certainly bow to your and Linda's superior music knowledge and skills ;) , but I would not be convinced that training by ear was that detrimental to your piano sight-reading abilities. I played the piano by ear from a young age, several years before I started lessons and learned to read music. I have always been a good sight-reader, in fact, it was my best skill during the 2 years when I was a music major (piano) in college.

On the other hand, I suck at sight singing and always have.

Anyway, just wanted to throw out my experience if that makes you more inclined to try a Suzuki or hybrid Suzuki approach.

well, i know for me, it most likely played a part. i used my ear as a crutch. my ear was too fast for my eyes and fingers. :) From what i've heard from the professional violinists and musicians i work with, this isn't an uncommon problem. I also don't know that i want something THAT intense and regimented to be DDs introduction to the instrument, ya know? I don't feel it's developmentally appropriate for preschoolers. It could really sour DD on the whole experience. And really, with having another kid, i also really don't know where i'd find the time to sit in on all her lessons and group lessons (which i'm told from the 2 music schools i spoke with is mandatory) PLUS all the practice sessions. Or how i could possibly schedule that in with all the other things she has on her schedule (swimming lessons and preschool---i would drop kindermusik if she was taking violin) and DS's kindermusik class.

if you're just looking for music exposure, what about Kindermusik or Music Together classes? DD has been in kindermusik since she was 3 weeks old and has really benefitted from the exposure. :)

now, why oh WHY did she pick an instrument i CAN'T play? I've tried to hint at the piano but this kid is stuck on violin! :p A good friend of mine who has a doctorate in organ--he's incredible--his oldest daughter will NOT play piano. She went for violin, too. I guess i can be happy that Annabelle DOES love to sing and wanst to sing like mommy. I'm just happy she's interested in music. :)

[LeighW]

We've taken Music Together once a year for 3 years. :) It doesn't fit in our schedule this year, and the price just went up a lot--it's about half the price of the violin lessons. :eek:

I'll admit one of the draws for the Suzuki lessons for me is that they will occur at school during hours she is in school anyway. No extra driving or scheduling for us. They "encourage" parents to attend the lessons, but it's not required. (Of course, since it's a montessori school with an extended afternoon program that caters to working parents, they know most parents won't attend. Ever.) This music company is tied into montessori schools--I don't even know if they accept other students. (I don't blame you for not wanting to attend all the lessons, especially with another kid.)

So it's not that strict of a Suzuki program, another plus as far as I'm concerned. :)

I feel the same way--happy she's interested in music. But why couldn't it be the piano? I'm pretty rusty these days, but at least I could get her started, and I know lots more pianists than violinists. I don't know squat about strings. Kids!

[nuhmah]

To me, that rate sounds really expensive. You can get a private lesson for half of that.

I teach my private string lessons with using the Suzuki Books as supplemental repertoire to the other method books that actually use music to teach students to play the instrument (like Mueller-Rush, Essential Elements, All for Strings). I charge $25 for a half hour private lesson, and students are responsible for their own instruments.

I plan to start DS on piano when he is 3-4 (depending on when he is ready) and by 5 to have him pick a stringed instrument. If it doesn't work out that way, then that will be ok.

He's got big hands - mommy is hoping for an accompanist! :D ;)

[linda_loo]

Annabelle has been really pushing for violin lessons for the past several months. I was sort of ignoring it at first, thinking it would probably fade but her interest is only getting stronger. So, I've started casually looking for a teacher but i'm avoiding traditional Suzuki. I want her reading music as well as training her ear. I've heard from many of the professional musicians i work with--especially the violinists, that there is a sort of hybrid suzuki that is getting popular and that they highly recommend--where the kids are learning to read music pretty much right off the bat along with the ear training which would be the only way i would allow suzuki, but i'm having a hard time finding it. Everything around me is the strict intense suzuki.

I think a hybrid Suzuki would be great, I hope you can find one Lisa. That would satisfy much of the National Standards in Music Education. Actually, now that I think about it, a lot of instrumental methods include at least some ear-training. Which is so great.

I have been thinking of this thread, and how I formed my bias. By the time I got former-Suzuki students, they were in 4th or 5th grade. Their ear was not necessarily what stood out to me, it was how they preferred rote-learning. How they had to *hear* something before they could play it. I guess that is, in a way, ear development. But, I always felt it was at the expense of being able to read. I can't say that I saw their ear development was fine in terms of pitch (and certainly not in terms of rhythm), just that if they heard it, they could play it. Which is useful, I guess, especially when you are learning improvisation (and perhaps composition). But, certainly not helpful in the self-directed learning that I was hoping for.

[mommydearest]

I am also a modified Suzuki teacher, and went through a pedagogy program at Indiana University with Mimi Zweig, one of the best in the country. She starts the kids at age 5 and will NOT start them earlier. It is a maturity and finger dexterity issue, and after working with Mimi's program for several years, I tend to agree with it. You have to make sure your child won't throw the violin, and can focus enough to practice and get through a 30 minute lesson. Also, for true Suzuki (and for any small child), the parent has to attend the lessons or they can't practice at home. The program teaches the parents to teach the child. So it seems a little odd that they are calling it Suzuki without both a private lesson and a group lesson each week, both of which you attend. But anyway, the music stores around here charge about $20 a month to rent an instrument. The violin program at IU is $400 a semester, and this is with some of the best teachers in the country. I'd be VERY skeptical of a program through a pre-school charging that much. At age three, you would probably be better to start piano (more durable and less coordination issues) than violin. It is very difficult to put your fingers down and bow at the same time, especially for a small child.

That's my experience. As much as I liked teaching lessons, I am now a middle school orchestra teacher.

[Kanga]

All I can add is that I thought I read somewhere that it is not advisable to start kids on violin early because it can some how affect how the hands develop.

Not saying it's true, only that I've never heard of that before. The two teachers I had in school (5th-12th) started their kids around 3-4, depending on personality and determination. I wouldn't think that 15-30 min 3-5 days a week would hurt, but I haven't researched it before.

IMO, the best age would be 4-6 depending on attention span and how into it they are.

Have you tried calling local music teachers? I did this during the summer when school was out and IIRC it was $10-$15 per lesson (private), but that's been awhile. I would say now, $15-$30 per private lesson would be about the average range. Even if they don't do lessons does. Also, about the age of 7 or so I took piano lessons at a local college. The teachers were students at the college, and I assume studying to be a teacher.

The local chain music store around here rents out instruments on a per month basis (no idea how much though) and what you pay to rent it can be applied towards the purchase of a violin (up to a certain percent I'm sure). Again, ask the local teachers what they suggest for their new students.