Vaccine Information

[curlywig]

Thanks so much.

[boilermaker]

Giving this a bump.

I had DD on a delayed vac schedule where I was postponing MMR until 18-24 months (hadn't decided yet) and was on the fence enough about CP that we were postponing indefinitely.

There is now a decent chance that we will be traveling to South America with DD in the next 4-6 weeks. Everything I can find says she should have both MMR doses before travel and that they need to be spaced at least 28 days apart. I am freaking out. I didn't want her to have one dose yet and now everything says she has to have 2 in quick succession?

Can anyone with the Dr Sears book check and see if it says anything about delayed vacs with international travel? I'm going to hit the library to try and get the book this afternoon but of course DD's 15m WBV is this morning.

[jennylou]

Hmmm, since you're still BFing, she'd still get your antibodies, right? Is this a requirement, or more of a suggestion?

[boilermaker]

I don't know. I'm trying to figure that out. I don't think I'm going to do anything at her appt today. I know her ped will say to get the shot since he'd prefer I vac on schedule (he let me delay without an argument, but it wasn't his recommendation).

The CP doesn't bother me because if she got CP, well, that would be that. But I don't want her to get measles (or mumps or rubella). I'm just having a hard time finding as much information on exposure in Chile than I could here. They have it at 12m in their vaccination schedule. The one thing I did find is that Hep A is a risk there, so I need to ask about that as well. She got the first Hep A shot at 12m and you're supposed to wait 6 months. So I need to find out if the first shot gives her enough protection for travel.

[jennylou]

I think the hep shot does. I got it at 15, right before a trip to Belize and my Dr said it was sufficient (I still had to complete the series but I was okay for that trip).

[Marisa]

I don't know why she'd need both MMR shots? The second shot is a booster, and if the first shot works correctly the second shot wouldn't be necessary. We delayed the MMR so my son got it at age 3, and then at 4 we checked his titers rather than giving the scheduled booster. He was already immune (about 80-90% of children are, after the first shot) so we skipped the second shot.

[Sevilla]

I'm confused about the 'both MMR doses' as well. The schedule here is one dose at 12-15 months, and another at age 5 as a kindergarten booster. So any child even on a regular vax schedule who was going to Chile and is under 5 would only have one dose and be considered 'fully vaccinated'. Was that recommendation for adults or infants or kids?

[lilo]

Should they be happening? I wouldn't call measles a good thing, but more like the lesser of two evils. There will always be disease, unfortunately and as far as diseases go measles is pretty tame. There are dozens of diseases more dangerous that have no vaccine. IMO, it's better to catch measles young when it's least dangerous, get lifelong immunity, then never worry about it again than to vaccinate everybody and have the immunity wear off or never take to begin with. Also, generally when immunity does wear off, it's in the teens or early 20's and more dangerous then. Sure you can always get vaccinated again, but no one knows exactly when that vaccine will wear off. Then there's the safety aspect of it if you do get vaccinated again. And again, and again. So far, they say the amounts of chemicals and toxins in it are safe. But there have been no studies showing the lifelong effects on the current recommended schedule of vaccinating every 10 years because they're always adding more.

If we vaccinate so much against measles that we wipe it out, I have no doubt that something else will crop up in it's place. Much like antibiotics have done to bacterial diseases.

kanga, thank you so much for posting your thoughts on measles. I follow a very similar line of thinking and I'm glad I'm not alone. Our pediatrician recently implored that there was a 'measles' outbreak and wanted us to give DS the measles vaccine, at the very least (DS is on a delayed vaccination schedule and won't get the MMR until he's 3. Even at that point, we'll separate it out). I told her that I'd rather DS get measles than risk the side effects of the vaccination, which she didn't agree with but it's ulimately our decision. I told her that we'd think about it but I'm just not comfortable with giving him the vaccine at this point.

thank you cosmic for posting that measles article. I was wondering what our pediatrician was referring to when she mentioned the 'measles outbreak'.

[boilermaker]

Just to clarify, the two doses of MMR were recommended on sites like the CDC and on the general travel sites to the area. At DD's WBV this morning, I asked my ped and he agreed with what Marissa posted earlier. The second shot is simply to ensure protection in case the 1st shot didn't work. If you are immune after the first shot, you don't need the second (even at the school age).

So, we got the Hep A shot since I was confused and we didn't get it at 12m (it was scheduled this time anyhow). We didn't get the MMR this morning. Since I was planning to delay it anyhow, the dr recommended I wait and see if we will indeed be traveling. If we are, I can get her in right away for the shot. Ideally, they would like to give it to her 4 weeks before travel but would be ok clearing her for travel with 2 weeks notice.

I should have more faith in my ped :)

[jodylovesscotty]

Carrie~ Can you delay the MMR shot with DD in daycare?

[boilermaker]

I didn't specifically ask if I could or not. I gave them her updated shot records at 12m and it didn't have MMR on it. They didn't say anything...but I didn't point it out either :) I don't have to give them another shot update until 24m. The OH recommended range is 12-15m, so until today, I hadn't officially "delayed".

[jodylovesscotty]

Maybe I will have to try the same thing:)

[boilermaker]

You could definitely get away with waiting until 15m as the recommended age is 12-15m. I don't think I could get away with postponing beyond 24m though and I'm ok with that. I'd do it at 18 months as well if they pushed me.

And my dr is on board with it. He doesn't recommend it, but he understands my reasoning and as he showed this morning, is supportive of my decision (because I went over all my reasons and facts with him, he knows this isn't me trying to make a "trendy" decision). So he'd be willing to sign an ok for daycare if it was needed.

[PinkMartini]

I have postponed DS' MMR until further notice... At his 18 month appt the nurse asked if I wanted to have him get it (he was getting his last Hep A shot) and I told her no, I wasn't comfortable yet. DS still isn't talking but I hope by his 24 month appt he will be, enough for me to feel comfortable with him getting it. I didn't even get a sideways glance from the nurse or the ped about it....

[jennylou]

You could definitely get away with waiting until 15m as the recommended age is 12-15m. I don't think I could get away with postponing beyond 24m though and I'm ok with that. I'd do it at 18 months as well if they pushed me.

And my dr is on board with it. He doesn't recommend it, but he understands my reasoning and as he showed this morning, is supportive of my decision (because I went over all my reasons and facts with him, he knows this isn't me trying to make a "trendy" decision). So he'd be willing to sign an ok for daycare if it was needed.
N's ped doesn't even give it until 15 months, so I agree - you could definitely push it at least that far.

Also, I think either one of you might be able to push it longer, there are some exemptions in Ohio.

[steelcitymama]

hi, ladies--i was hoping to get some opinions from the group. our DD has been on a slightly delayed (by a matter of a month or few) and spaced out vax schedule. her 12 mo WBV is coming up in a few weeks. we currently live in a major city and love our ped. the group has been very easy to work with re: our vax wishes for DD.

about 3 weeks after DD turns 1, we are moving to a very small rural town in appalachia. i just read the suggestion from earlier in the thread re: posting in the 'finding your tribe' forum on MDC to get ped recs and will do that shortly.

so....to get to my question: originally we'd been planning on getting DD's MMR at either 15 or 18 mos and we were definitely going to have it split out into the 3 separate injections. however, with the impending move, i'm very nervous that we won't be able to find a ped who is willing to do this. do you think i should call our current ped and prepare to have the 3 separate shots in our city now, before we go?

as a follow up question, i read a few pages back that several of you had peds tell you they wouldn't/couldn't give the MMR separately. how do you handle that when you *know* it is certainly possible?

thanks for any/all suggestions!

[Sevilla]

For me personally, I don't plan to give the MMR separately and personally don't feel (based on the available data) that doing so lowers the risk of reaction, plus it triples the amount of chemicals and such injected since it's split up. So my priority would be finding a ped ok with delaying, but breaking it into 3 isn't as big of a deal to me.

[dana b]

i agree w/ sevilla -- i'd just look for someone who's fine w/ delaying. splitting it up wasn't a big deal for me either. my dd got it at 3 and ds will get it at 3 or 4. we're seeing a new ped who isn't nearly as laid back about this as our other ped, but i'm more confident in dealing w/ peds now so that doesn't bother me ;)

[steelcitymama]

thanks for the feedback, sevilla and dana b. i appreciate your input!

[kmack]

hi, i posted a while back and am here again...in response to someone's earlier post of dr. sears view on merucry, he states that some shots use mercury in the manufacturing and therefore trace amounts are left over. i am in ireland now and was due to get DS his first round of shots. i had asked for the leaflet and under special warnings it says "each dose may contain undetectable traces of thiomersal" so i am assuming there are trace amts left over from manufacturing but i wasnt sure so i asked the GP and he couldn't answer me :confused::mad:. he couldnt confidently say that there was no mercury in the shot so i left without getting it. his nurse was supposed to research it and get back to me but it's been over a week and i have made a follow up call and still havent heard back. my question is, if the mercury is undetectable, then how are there traces of it in there and why is it something thats listed under special warnings?? and are these trace amounts really something i should be worried about, because it is looking like getting this particular shot (pentavac, 5 in 1 for DTap, Hib and polio) is my only choice (other than not vax but i am not comfortable with that as DS will be in daycare) because i am having trouble finding a 100% mercury-free one in this country. and my GP said if i found one he wouldnt be comfortable administering it b/c it doesnt fall under the state regs or something and how does he know it is safe, etc. etc.

sorry for that long-winded post.

boilermaker not sure if this site can help you at all in determining what kinds of diseases are in chile, its an irish site that i found doing some research.

http://tmb.exodus.ie/exodus/country.asp

[PinkMartini]

For me personally, I don't plan to give the MMR separately and personally don't feel (based on the available data) that doing so lowers the risk of reaction, plus it triples the amount of chemicals and such injected since it's split up. So my priority would be finding a ped ok with delaying, but breaking it into 3 isn't as big of a deal to me.

Yup! Same here. We're delaying getting it (if DS is talking well enough at his 2 year appt we'll get it then) but not splitting it up :)

[merjmo]

hi, i posted a while back and am here again...in response to someone's earlier post of dr. sears view on merucry, he states that some shots use mercury in the manufacturing and therefore trace amounts are left over. i am in ireland now and was due to get DS his first round of shots. i had asked for the leaflet and under special warnings it says "each dose may contain undetectable traces of thiomersal" so i am assuming there are trace amts left over from manufacturing but i wasnt sure so i asked the GP and he couldn't answer me :confused::mad:. he couldnt confidently say that there was no mercury in the shot so i left without getting it.

Do you know if the shot comes in its own package, or if 10 shots are together (and then the person administering it draws out one shot's worth)?

[kmack]

merjmo i have no clue! i will try to ask if the nurse ever calls me back. why do you ask?

[elissa]

I know I'm late posting this, but my DD WBV is tomorrow and to date we have done vax on schedule. However, with the MMR coming up and the Chickenpox vax, we will be discussing with the ped.

DD is in daycare and was primarily FF, so my intention based on what I have read is to do the dTap, Hep A, potentially Chickenpox and delay the MMR - not sure how long at this point.

Can someone share the Dr. Sears info on this? TIA!

[merjmo]

merjmo i have no clue! i will try to ask if the nurse ever calls me back. why do you ask?

Gosh, I'm sorry I didn't see this until it got bumped back up - there is more mercury in the 10-shots-per-vial than in the single-dose vials.

[littlecindy]

I know I'm late posting this, but my DD WBV is tomorrow and to date we have done vax on schedule. However, with the MMR coming up and the Chickenpox vax, we will be discussing with the ped.

DD is in daycare and was primarily FF, so my intention based on what I have read is to do the dTap, Hep A, potentially Chickenpox and delay the MMR - not sure how long at this point.

Can someone share the Dr. Sears info on this? TIA!

how old is your DS? has she had ANY shots?

dr. sears would officially recommend you get them all. however, my basic take on his info if you don't want to them all is he says you can (keep in mind i'm NOT a doctor):

totally skip hep A (until toddlerhood) & hep B (until preteen)
totally skip chicken pox (until preteen if child doesn't get chicken pox on their own)
separate MMR (and start with measles or mumps i believe), but there's potential to be exposed to more crap when you separate because they're getting more shots
get DTaP from newborn age (the full 3-4 shot series starting at 2 months) because pertussis / whooping cough, though not deadly, SUCKS - if you can ask your ped to get one with less aluminum

i personally am delaying the MMR until like 2, but getting it in one shot, not separating

FYI, a lot of peds hold off on the MMR until 15 or 18 months for ALL kids

my son reacted to his 3rd DTaP shot (probably the aluminum), so i may try to get one with less aluminum for the 4th shot.

[daphne]

littlecindy How did your son react to the dtap?

[mcgwigan]

daphne I was wondering why you were asking her how her DC reacted to the DTaP? Just curious- my DS slept a lot and threw up a couple times.

[daphne]

mcg Just b/c DD just had her 3rd dtap a couple of weeks ago. She was a little fussy/clingy & just seemed a little "off" (ie decreased appetite, etc) for several days.

[littlecindy]

littlecindy How did your son react to the dtap?

mcg Just b/c DD just had her 3rd dtap a couple of weeks ago. She was a little fussy/clingy & just seemed a little "off" (ie decreased appetite, etc) for several days.

my DS has been like that after most shots. the DTaP reaction i mentioned was a pretty bad bruise & bump on his leg. a really swollen purple bruise where he got the shot, 3 inches in diameter maybe. and then a bump that lasted for a good month. i guess sometimes babies react so badly their whole leg swells up?

[mcgwigan]

My DS has just had the one dtap so far & he was extremely fussy all night - I could not put him down, he did not want to nurse, just fussy, fussy , fussy! He gets the second one in a couple of weeks and I am soooo hoping that it won't affect him so bad:(.

[Sevilla]

My DS has just had the one dtap so far & he was extremely fussy all night - I could not put him down, he did not want to nurse, just fussy, fussy , fussy! He gets the second one in a couple of weeks and I am soooo hoping that it won't affect him so bad:(.
FWIW, reactions usually intensify with each subsequent dose so I would be on the look-out. Out of curiosity, what brand of DTaP did your DS receive? I'm always curious to know if one brand tends to spark more fussiness/reactions than another.

[mcgwigan]

Sevilla I'll try to remember to look when I get home - I can't come up with it off the top of my head! It, of course, has like 625 mg of aluminum in it!:(

[jennylou]

I'm curious, for those who declined the Hep shot at the hospital, did you catch any flack for your decision? I'm thinking this is going to be another that we don't get, but am curious if there is going to be a big fuss over it. I do plan to speak with the ped (DD conveniently has a WBV a month or so before my EDD) and I'm sure she'll be fine with us not giving it, but it's the nurses I wonder about.

[Kate&Joey]

I'm curious, for those who declined the Hep shot at the hospital, did you catch any flack for your decision? I'm thinking this is going to be another that we don't get, but am curious if there is going to be a big fuss over it. I do plan to speak with the ped (DD conveniently has a WBV a month or so before my EDD) and I'm sure she'll be fine with us not giving it, but it's the nurses I wonder about.

I didn't get any flack at all. I said I would decline the Hep and I had to sign some waiver saying I declined it. It was just something else to sign in the giant stack o' paperwork. :)

[Marisa]

We also had a form to sign saying we waived the Hep B. There was one nurse that was really talking up how important it was, when I was in the recovery room, but she was the exception, and anyway she was placated with the information that we just want to keep all our vaccinations in one spot, our ped's office.

She didn't have to know that I have no intention of getting him the Hep B until he starts school. :)

[alliekat75]

We also declined Hep B at birth. Our nurse just asked why. My response was that I didn't expect DD to be sexually active while at the hospital. (She is EBF and I'm a SAHM so no day care.) That response seemed to satisfy her.

We delayed the DTaP shot until 3 mos and only gave her that 1 injection. The brand name was Pediarix and has a lot more aluminum that I was comfortable with. Unfortunately, my doctor said that he could not get another brand. Hmmmmm......

DD did have a mild reaction to DTaP. She had baby insomnia for a few days and 3-4 days of very runny poopies. She's BF, so they tend to be soft anyway. These were ridiculously runny.

[daphne]

We delayed the DTaP shot until 3 mos and only gave her that 1 injection. The brand name was Pediarix and has a lot more aluminum that I was comfortable with. Unfortunately, my doctor said that he could not get another brand. Hmmmmm......

We have the pediarix at our practice, too, but I didn't think it was a brand of the DTaP. My understanding is that it's the DTaP, along with Hep B and IPV.

[katmg]

I'm curious, for those who declined the Hep shot at the hospital, did you catch any flack for your decision? I'm thinking this is going to be another that we don't get, but am curious if there is going to be a big fuss over it. I do plan to speak with the ped (DD conveniently has a WBV a month or so before my EDD) and I'm sure she'll be fine with us not giving it, but it's the nurses I wonder about.

Nope. Our peds office doesn't typically have them do that shot at the hospital. They lump it in with the shots at 2 months or something like that. The nurses at the hospital didn't care and even made some snarky comments about only giving to the babies that weren't likely to continue to receive health care. :rolleyes:

[Kanga]

I'm curious, for those who declined the Hep shot at the hospital, did you catch any flack for your decision? I'm thinking this is going to be another that we don't get, but am curious if there is going to be a big fuss over it. I do plan to speak with the ped (DD conveniently has a WBV a month or so before my EDD) and I'm sure she'll be fine with us not giving it, but it's the nurses I wonder about.

The hospital ped was much more worried about the vit k shot (not sure if you're planning on skipping that one or not)than the hep b or eye ointment. He said something to the effect of "no eye ointment, ok not so worried about that, I highly suggest the vit k. 1 in 100 babies DIE from having hemorrhaging. (completely false, btw). Hep B, I would be ok with waiting until 2 months." I nodded and smiled and declined the vit k (again).

[HGMorgann]

hep b - I just said "no thanks, we'll do it later" and that was that.

[mcgwigan]

Sevilla OK, I checked - it wasn't DTaP that made DS so fussy. The DTaP totally knocked him out and he also had a few extreme spit-ups- I was worried to put him to bed for fear he'd spit up so bad & not turn his head & choke. The DTap we got was Infanrix made by Glaxo Smith Kline & had 625 micrograms of Aluminum- way more than I wanted, but they said they couldn't order another brand-whatever.

We had the Hib and Pneumococcal Conjugate (PC) given together and that is what made DS so fussy. Hib was by Sanafi Pasteur & PC was Prevnar made by Wyeth.

Hep B Declined this at birth, but we did have this one at one month and 2 months I think-separate from other shots. He really didn't have much of a reaction to this one. We didn't catch any flack at the hospital for declining. It's a new vaccination, isn't it? My 9 yr old DSS has not be vaccinated for this-but we'll probably get it done soon so it's out of the way.

Pediarix It's a combo for DTaP, hep b, & polio. It has the infanrix brand DTaP, so 625 micrograms of aluminum there & then it has the Engerix-B brand of the Hep B, so 250 micrograms of aluminum there and there's no aluminum in the polio. So this combo shot has 875 micrograms of aluminum total. You can ask for seperate shots-my Dr's office had to order the Hep B seperately since they either were out, or didn't have it. Of course, it's a lot of trips and if you have co-pays, then extra's of those too!

[littlecindy]

FWIW, reactions usually intensify with each subsequent dose so I would be on the look-out. Out of curiosity, what brand of DTaP did your DS receive? I'm always curious to know if one brand tends to spark more fussiness/reactions than another.

they can definitely get worse with each shot. DS had no reaction on the first 2, and then the moderate one on the 3rd. so i'm worried about the 4th.

it's the aluminum that causes the swelling, from what i could find on the web.

[littlecindy]

I'm curious, for those who declined the Hep shot at the hospital, did you catch any flack for your decision? I'm thinking this is going to be another that we don't get, but am curious if there is going to be a big fuss over it. I do plan to speak with the ped (DD conveniently has a WBV a month or so before my EDD) and I'm sure she'll be fine with us not giving it, but it's the nurses I wonder about.

our hospital didn't even offer it.

[designer]

Is there anywhere I can find Dr. Sears's alternate vaccination schedule online? My library doesn't carry the book and I was wondering if I could find it online somewhere before I buy the book.

TIA

[dana b]

I'm curious, for those who declined the Hep shot at the hospital, did you catch any flack for your decision? I'm thinking this is going to be another that we don't get, but am curious if there is going to be a big fuss over it. I do plan to speak with the ped (DD conveniently has a WBV a month or so before my EDD) and I'm sure she'll be fine with us not giving it, but it's the nurses I wonder about.

it wasn't even mentioned with dd. but w/ ds (different hospital), the nurse got all bent out of shape saying that i HAD to give it because it was a sunday and they couldn't call my dr's office to make sure i was hep b negative. yeah, whatever, just give me the waiver :rolleyes:

[jennylou]

Thanks for all the posts on the Hep B shot. :) I'm hoping we don't catch any flack, but we'll see. ;)

[Mickey&B]

Hep b We did get a bit of greif about not giving DS #2 the hep b shot, they just kept mentioning it over and over. Just a bit of advise.....Thank goodness I made sure to tell DH to stay with DS when they took him to the nursery because even though I had it in my labor plan to not give it to him, told my MW they were still going to give it to him :mad: DH looked over the shots they had layed out to give him once he arrived in the nursery and told the nurse that he would not be getting the hep B. So I would make sure that you or DH never leaves the baby!!

[mcgwigan]

Mickey Wow, I can't believe that they were going to give it to him anyway! I've had to sign before each and every shot that DS has had!

I don't understand why they don't just test the mothers for Hep B and then we can just give that one later, like when they're school aged.

[Kanga]

I don't understand why they don't just test the mothers for Hep B and then we can just give that one later, like when they're school aged.

Because they figure they can get more when they give them in the hospital. You'd have to sign a waiver if they were school age. Newborns in the hospital however, are fair game:rolleyes:

[Marisa]

Mickey Wow, I can't believe that they were going to give it to him anyway! I've had to sign before each and every shot that DS has had!

I don't understand why they don't just test the mothers for Hep B and then we can just give that one later, like when they're school aged.

As Kanga said. It's a series of three shots that need to be done at a certain interval to be effective, and they think that by initiating it in the hospital, parents are more likely to follow up and get the second and third shots in the series. Maybe it's true -- many many more new parents are scheduling well baby visits than are scheduling three different visits for their five or six year old -- if that child is still getting regular checkups at all. By pushing the Hep B in the hospital, they're not really targeting the conscientious parents like us, IYKWIM.

[scout]

I'm curious, for those who declined the Hep shot at the hospital, did you catch any flack for your decision?
The nurse was very cool about it, but my doctor gives me tons of crap for it every. single. visit. I tell him nobody in my house has Hep B, my dd won't be having sex or sharing needles anytime soon, and by the time she COULD be sharing needles or having sex, the immunity will have worn off. Additionally, since only 335 people in Illinois are diagnosed each year (all through drug use and sexual activity), in my opinion, it's just bad medicine. He sighs, and says, "Well, she won't be able to go to public school until she gets it." I should add that I'm now being kicked out of his practice because I'm using a delayed schedule.

[Kanga]

"Well, she won't be able to go to public school until she gets it."

Two words - Religious Exemption;)

[daphne]

As Kanga said. It's a series of three shots that need to be done at a certain interval to be effective,

I'm not following this. I know that there is a minimum spacing recommendation for the Hep B vax, but this sounds like the vaccinations won't be effective if they aren't given at the correct time?

[Marisa]

Well, what I was thinking of is that you typically need the first shot at 1 mos, then the second at 2 mos and the final at 6 mos -- all standard "well baby visit" ages where parents are still being conscientious about doctor's visits in general. The CDC info says to give the second shot ASAP if you go off schedule after the first dose, and that the third dose can be administered at any time. I think that there's just concern about doing them too close together, from what I can gather doing some quick reading. I also think that having just one or two doses does convey some immunity, but full protection would be conveyed by the full three-shot series.

[daphne]

Thanks, Marisa. That was my understanding. I was concerned that the 1 Hep B vax DD has had would have been pointless (& possibly have to be repeated) if I didn't continue with the series on time.

[merjmo]

Two words - Religious Exemption;)

I have to say that this pisses me off. Using the term "religious exemption" when what people really have is a "philosophical" disagreement with the process. WHICH, might I add, should be allowed in ALL states. We should not be forced into vaccinations that the medical community can't even prove are safe, but we shouldn't have to lie and say it's because of our religious beliefs.

[starxed]

I have a couple questions for those with a delayed vaccine schedule and/or those who are refusing certain or all vaccines.

1. What made you decide to delay or refuse certain or all vaccines? Did you come across certain information in your pregnancy that swayed you? Hear stories of ill effects to vaccines or their ingredients?

2. What are your plans as your child ages? It is perfectly reasonable to assume that he/she will not be exposed to any diseases as an infant in your care, but what about the future?

3. Most Doctors/providers (and the AAP) are vaccine advocates and even become disappointed with your decisions regarding delaying/refusing vaccines. Why do you think they feel that way? What is their incentive to "give you flack" if your child's provider is supposed to ultimately want and advocate for what is best for the health of children? Is there something you know that they don't know?

I hope my questions don't sound condescending because I don't mean them that way. I am just trying to gather information.

[jennylou]

I have a couple questions for those with a delayed vaccine schedule and/or those who are refusing certain or all vaccines.

1. What made you decide to delay or refuse certain or all vaccines? Did you come across certain information in your pregnancy that swayed you? Hear stories of ill effects to vaccines or their ingredients?

2. What are your plans as your child ages? It is perfectly reasonable to assume that he/she will not be exposed to any diseases as an infant in your care, but what about the future?

3. Most Doctors/providers (and the AAP) are vaccine advocates and even become disappointed with your decisions regarding delaying/refusing vaccines. Why do you think they feel that way? What is their incentive to "give you flack" if your child's provider is supposed to ultimately want and advocate for what is best for the health of children? Is there something you know that they don't know?

I hope my questions don't sound condescending because I don't mean them that way. I am just trying to gather information.

1. Certain vaccines just aren't necessary imo. For example - the chicken pox vaccine. It's a simple, childhood illness. Is it uncomfortable? Sure, but it's certainly not a very threatening disease (like, say polio). Getting the disease as a child makes it so that you have lifelong immunity. If you vax, you need boosters. How many adults are current on their boosters? I'd say, not too many are rushing in to get their tetanus booster every ten years. Likewise, Hep B isn't really necessary as a childhood vax for my child - as my children aren't out having sex or shooting up drugs. We're delaying the MMR because I'm not entirely convinced that the vax is not tied into autism. Being as I have a cousin who is autistic, I'm taking the more cautious approach and just delaying it until I feel more comfortable with it. I'm also not on board a few others - rotateq (the FDA came out with a warning against it), as well as the new HPV vax. Oh, and the flu vax, we don't get that either.

2. I hope to expose DD to certain things - like chicken pox. I'd rather her have a natural immunity to it. As for other things - like Hep B, I may end up getting her that vax when she enters junior high/high school.

3. My Dr is not disappointed in our decision to delay or refuse vaxes - of the ones we have refused thus far. She told me that she actually has quite a few patients who don't vax at all, so our limited/delaying schedule is not a concern to her at all. She wants us to feel comfortable with whatever we're doing medically with DD (and our one on the way).

[Sevilla]

I should add that I'm now being kicked out of his practice because I'm using a delayed schedule.
That's terrible! Have you searched the vaccine-friendly provider database here - Dr. Sears Selective/Delayed/Non-Vaccine Friendly Doctors (http://www.askdrsears.com/thevaccinebook/Vaccine_Friendly_Doctors.asp)? We've gone to (or know people who have gone to) a number of doctors for our state and have had a great experience with them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Starx:
1. Long before I became pregnant with DS I knew we would do an alternative schedule. I did extensive reading on the CDC's site, as well as reading books on the topic. I personally didn't find too much helpful on the internet except for the CDC's (government) site and then sites about the vaccine laws/exemptions for each state.

I have a few things that disturb me about the current schedule that I have not seen successfully answered such as the issue of the large amounts of aluminum injected into kids per 'regular CDC schedule' shot visit and the fact that those amounts have NEVER BEEN TESTED FOR SAFETY when aluminum is a known neuro-toxin and NICU babies who receive aluminum in their saline solution demonstrate cognitive effects.

2. We vaccinate for diseases that I am not comfortable with my child getting - those include the DTaP and MMR vaccines (though at a later date than the CDC schedule which was a decision made in conjunction with our ped). There are some diseases, like Hep B and Chickne Pox, that I will gladly vaccinate my child for once they are of an age where it is more of a risk (early adolescence) and for which I feel there is little benefit of doing it on an infant/toddler - particularly b/c with Hep B the length of immunity offered by the shot is not known and the age where the highest risk is the teens and twenties.

There are some shots, such as the Hib and Prevnar vaccineations, that I do not get b/c my child's risk factors are very low. In addition, I have some issues with those vaccines as the Hib vaccine lowered the rate of Hib - and the diseases in the Prevnar vaccine took its place. So then they developed and introduced Prevnar - well now, the strains of pneumoccocal disease in Prevnar are not the most common ones and they now need to reformulate the vaccine again to include different strains. It feels like a race against Nature and the fact that each time they knock out one disease another rises in its place gives me pause - because at what point will they say "too many vaccines?" Will we be vaccinating for 30 diseases at a time with our 2 month olds? 40? 50?

I compare my vaccine schedule in the 1980's and the CDC's schedule now and it is a huge increase - and there havent been multi-generational studies testing the effects of this. I'd rather my child not be a guinea pig (this is why I didn't do the Rotavirus vaccine with DS because it was so new and as a rule I won't give vaccines that haven't been used for awhile, I may consider the Rota vaccine with a subsequent baby based on new research and information).

3. We've been to two different practices and both have been supportive of our vaccination schedule so I don't have personal experience with this question :). I really like the Dr. Sears Vaccine Book - it's actually pretty pro-vaccine but includes very helpful research and information for parents who selective/delay as well as for doctors. He believes in vaccine theory but also has some qualms about the current formulations of vaccines (including the aluminum issue referenced above) and I think that it is a good book for parents to read as they make their decisions.

[merjmo]

starx: I would recommend you read the Vaccine Book by Dr. Sears (Bob). It will tell you a lot of information about stuff so you can make the decision yourself.

And don't let anyone tell you that there's more aluminum in BM than in shots. While that may be true, it's completely different taking it orally than having it injected into your children. I believe in vaccination and will get almost all of them for DD, but not all at once.

[starxed]

Thanks for your replies so far. I really appreciate hearing personal experiences and opinions even though I know there are books out there to get information as well. I probably will pick up Dr Sears' Vaccine Book.

[merjmo]

Thanks for your replies so far. I really appreciate hearing personal experiences and opinions even though I know there are books out there to get information as well. I probably will pick up Dr Sears' Vaccine Book.

I meant to say you can probably get it from your local library if you don't want to purchase it.

[tgal]

I thought there was a national reporting database where we were able to report vaccine reactions, but I can't seem to locate a url. Has anyone heard of this and if so, would you please post a link? TIA!

[Kanga]

I thought there was a national reporting database where we were able to report vaccine reactions, but I can't seem to locate a url. Has anyone heard of this and if so, would you please post a link? TIA!

VAERS (http://vaers.hhs.gov/)

[scout]

That's terrible! Have you searched the vaccine-friendly provider database here - Dr. Sears Selective/Delayed/Non-Vaccine Friendly Doctors? We've gone to (or know people who have gone to) a number of doctors for our state and have had a great experience with them. I was actually given a recommendation for Homefirst, which I will be switching to (hopefully!) once my DH can change his insurance during open enrollment.

Thank you for the link! I will definitely be checking that out and passing it along! Two words - Religious Exemption

I have to say that this pisses me off. Using the term "religious exemption" when what people really have is a "philosophical" disagreement with the process. WHICH, might I add, should be allowed in ALL states. We should not be forced into vaccinations that the medical community can't even prove are safe, but we shouldn't have to lie and say it's because of our religious beliefs. I will have to write a religious exemption letter because my ds can't attend daycare without the Hep B shot. I agree that I'd rather not lie about it, but I have no other choice.

[Annette]

Has anyone in TX done the exemption form? I'm just wondering what it entails. Is the exemption an all or nothing sort of thing? I'm leaning towards selective vaccination at this point. Do private daycare centers have to accept the exemption form? Can they deny me a spot because I am choosing to selectively vaccinate?

[Kanga]

Has anyone in TX done the exemption form? I'm just wondering what it entails. Is the exemption an all or nothing sort of thing? I'm leaning towards selective vaccination at this point. Do private daycare centers have to accept the exemption form? Can they deny me a spot because I am choosing to selectively vaccinate?


I have no idea about TX exemptions, but check out 909shot.com. They have the exemption laws on states.

As for private daycares - yes they can deny you a spot. However if they receive even one penny of fovernment money, they have to allow an exemption.

[littlecindy]

I have a couple questions for those with a delayed vaccine schedule and/or those who are refusing certain or all vaccines.

1. What made you decide to delay or refuse certain or all vaccines? Did you come across certain information in your pregnancy that swayed you? Hear stories of ill effects to vaccines or their ingredients?

2. What are your plans as your child ages? It is perfectly reasonable to assume that he/she will not be exposed to any diseases as an infant in your care, but what about the future?

3. Most Doctors/providers (and the AAP) are vaccine advocates and even become disappointed with your decisions regarding delaying/refusing vaccines. Why do you think they feel that way? What is their incentive to "give you flack" if your child's provider is supposed to ultimately want and advocate for what is best for the health of children? Is there something you know that they don't know?

I hope my questions don't sound condescending because I don't mean them that way. I am just trying to gather information.

1. While pregnant I knew that I wanted to be informed about each shot we gave our baby. I didn't do a lot of research until late in pregnancy. Basically, I knew I wanted to be a good public citizen and vaccinate, but I knew some shorts were controversial and when I grew up, I got like 1/5 the amount they give kids now.

After doing research, I was most concerned with bombarding my baby's immune system. That's the main thing. That may or may not contribute to autism, who knows at this point. I totally agree with one of the PP who said that some are totally unnecessary for infants (the hep shots, chicken pox, for instance).

My daycare provider has a nephew that had the screaming reaction to a shot and there was some brain damage i guess?

2. My son has gotten probably 75% of the recommended shots now and will continue to. By grade school he may be caught up, not sure. He's actually already been exposed to pertussis so I was glad we did the DTaP.

3. Um....the thing is, we do have vaccinations for a reason. I understand where doctors are coming from. I think some people are philosophically opposed to all vaccines. I am not. I just think that there are too many, and that we don't fully know the risks of them all yet, or the risks of them getting so many so young. But, I think nowadays we have the luxury of not knowing how badly these diseases could all affect us if the population really started not vaccinating, so I feel like it's responsible to vaccinate, albeit on a delayed schedule or something, as long as you're not super high risk for autism or something.

[Kanga]

1. What made you decide to delay or refuse certain or all vaccines? Did you come across certain information in your pregnancy that swayed you? Hear stories of ill effects to vaccines or their ingredients?

2. What are your plans as your child ages? It is perfectly reasonable to assume that he/she will not be exposed to any diseases as an infant in your care, but what about the future?

3. Most Doctors/providers (and the AAP) are vaccine advocates and even become disappointed with your decisions regarding delaying/refusing vaccines. Why do you think they feel that way? What is their incentive to "give you flack" if your child's provider is supposed to ultimately want and advocate for what is best for the health of children? Is there something you know that they don't know?

1.) I first came across selec/delayed vaxes when I started lurking on mothering.com. I'll admit, at first I thought they were a bunch of crazy loons who thought everyone was out to get them. That was when dd1 was about 3 months. Then she got her 4 month vaxes and had a reaction. She had a large hard knot on the injection site of what I think was the DTaP. After a week when it was still there and not lessening I started getting concerned and thought maybe those 'crazy loons' really were on to something. I started at MDC lurking and reading any links I could find. A month went by and I started fretting on HOW I was going to be able to research everything I wanted to in time for her 6 month visit. I then realized there was no rush. I didn't NEED to decide one way or the other by 6 months. She didn't NEED to have the 6 mo vaxes right then and there or never at all. I could always get them later if I decided otherwise. So I stopped completely until I could make a decision. Ultimately I decided on no vaccines at all until the pre teen years. If they aren't immune to CP or MMR, I will consider those. I will leave the hep B decision up to them.

2.) I know they are and have been exposed to illnesses as infants and that will continue for the rest of their lives. My objective isn't to keep them from all diseases for ever - it isn't possible. My hope is that they develop an immune system able to fight these off. I believe that's why God gave them and the rest of us immune systems - to fight off disease. It will always be there, and never say never, but probably not will there ever be a disease free world or a world with vaccines for everything. Even so, vaccines are not 100% and no matter what you decide, your child is still at risk for illness. I hope they are exposed to MMR and CP when they are young and the risk of the disease is at it's least. If so, they will in all likeliness develop life long immunity and never have to worry about it again. As for tetanus - I don't believe that vaccine works at all, not to mention it's virtually unheard of in a healthy person with good circulation. Wild polio has been eradicated in the U.S. and is rarely paralytic. I hope they never get pertussis, but I also believe the vaccine is a much greater risk to them and I have concerns about it's efficacy. Rotateq wasn't out until my kids were too old, and since they're not in daycare or anything, I'm not concerned about it. Um, I'm sure I'm leaving some out but that's the jist of it.

3.) Doctors go to 8 or more years of pro vaccine education. It really isn't surprising to me that most of them are pro vax. Also, contrary to popular belief, they DO NOT have my child's best interest at mind. They are more conerned with the population at a whole. Most believe that if we vaccinate everyone, we will erradicate the disease. They know that there will likely be at least a few reactions/deaths but also believe it's for the good of the population as a whole. My former ped solidified when I brought up our concern of the 4 month vax reaction at dd1's 6 mo visit. II asked why that happened at 4 months and not 6 months. What could we do to prevent it. If it happens again is there anything you can do to make it go away. She had no answers. Either she didn't know herself or didn't want me to know. Actually, she really didn't even acknowledge my concern at all. I told her I would research it then since she could not give me answers and get back to her. When I told her at 12 months that we would not be vaccinating at all anymore, the first thing she brought up was the mumps outbreak at the time. If you do the research, it's obvious the vaccine was at fault for that. It left adolescents vulnerable after their immunity waned when the diseases were more serious. The second thing she brought up was that if you don't do them all on schedule, figuring out a new schedule and getting caught up in time for school can be tricky. As if that's a valid reason to ignore all other concerns:rolleyes: Needless to say we never went back after that. Also, at the first vax visit I asked her what vaccines she'd be receivng. She had no idea and had to look at the waivers. Clearly she was just doing what she had been told, going on autovpilot.

We have obviously switched peds. Our new one gives us 0 flack. Her nurse asked if we were getting vaxes that day and I said no. She then asked if we were getting no more ever, or we were just delaying. I said more than likely, no more ever. She said ok, reminded us we didn't need a well check to get vaccines and that was that.

[starxed]

Still reading along... thank you.

[Blondie]

Hi! I'm still TTC, but I have always felt strongly that I wanted to do a delayed vax schedule, so all the info here has been really helpful to me. I do have one issue though and that is the fact that I work at a hospital. So would it be wrong for me to delay knowing that I come in contact with all these infectious diseases every day at work? I don't want to bring it home to an un-vaxed child! FWIW, I do plan to exclusively bf and my child would not be in daycare. It would stay with my sister who is a SAHM to her child who is already a year old and has been completely vaxed on schedule. Should I worry about bringing my "work" home?

[jennylou]

Hi! I'm still TTC, but I have always felt strongly that I wanted to do a delayed vax schedule, so all the info here has been really helpful to me. I do have one issue though and that is the fact that I work at a hospital. So would it be wrong for me to delay knowing that I come in contact with all these infectious diseases every day at work? I don't want to bring it home to an un-vaxed child! FWIW, I do plan to exclusively bf and my child would not be in daycare. It would stay with my sister who is a SAHM to her child who is already a year old and has been completely vaxed on schedule. Should I worry about bringing my "work" home?

What kind of work do you do? Lab work with polio, measles, mumps, rubella and CP?

Or do you work for a hospital/dr's office?

[Blondie]

No, xrays! So I come in contact with just about every single patient on a daily basis! From ICU, ER, and inpatients! I mean I definitely practice good hygiene with my handwashing and wearing PPE. I also thought I might not wear my scrubs to and from work and change into regular clothes so I don't pick up future DC (hopefully) in possibly contaminated garments. Same with shoes. I will change them and/or always take them off before tracking in the house. But will I be carrying around the germs and exposing them to a vulnerable infant?

[kmack]

does anyone know anything about the meningicoccal vax?? i am wondering b/c we are living in irleand now and they administer the men-c (neis c) vax at 2, 4 and 6 mos old. i know that in MA where we were living they dont give this until 12 yrs old. i am a little nervous about my kids getting something that may not have been approved in the US yet, but at the same time meningitis really scares me b/c i feel like i always hear about people/kids dying from it. i asked my old ped. about it thru email and she said it has been approved for infants in the US but has not been formally added to the vax schedule yet but she didn't get into any details. i am trying to look online but can't find anything about it, just curious if anyone has any more info?? thanks!

[AmyE]

Kmack - I'm living overseas too, and had the same questions for our doctor here, who is Australian. Turns out the mening. vaccine is a different formulation here (SE Asia) than the one given in the US when the child is older. The strain they use here is more targetted to the types of meningitis they see in the region, but focussed, and given earlier. The US vaccine is more of a broad spectrum vaccine, apparently. At least, that is how I understood the explanation. Basically, they are vaccinating for different strains. Ask your ped there - you should take the long version of the CDC immunization schedule with you. The footnotes on each vaccine have more information.

[Sevilla]

That's a really good point - just b/c the vax has the same name doesn't necessarily mean it's the same strains. I would definitely try and find that out, and also the incidence of that particular disease and how it is spread, before giving the vax.

[emmjay]

More MMR questions - if you have delayed or plan to delay the MMR, when did/will you have it done? Also, if your child has already had the MMR, how old was he/she and were there any reactions?

Do the recent measles outbreaks have any bearing on your decision?

[Marisa]

Joey got his MMR about one year ago, right before he was starting preschool. He was 3 1/2 at the time. He did not have any reactions, but I was very glad to be able to wait until he was quite verbal to have it done -- if there were going to be changes to his personality, it would have been quite noticeable.

I plan to do the same for Teddy -- he would be "due" for it in the fall of '09 based on the CDC schedule, but I will wait until the summer of '11 before he starts preschool.

[jennylou]

No, xrays! So I come in contact with just about every single patient on a daily basis! From ICU, ER, and inpatients! I mean I definitely practice good hygiene with my handwashing and wearing PPE. I also thought I might not wear my scrubs to and from work and change into regular clothes so I don't pick up future DC (hopefully) in possibly contaminated garments. Same with shoes. I will change them and/or always take them off before tracking in the house. But will I be carrying around the germs and exposing them to a vulnerable infant?

I think you have to make your own choices. I think changing is a wonderful idea, I'm sure the gunk you pick up on your shoes enough is um, gross. ;)

As long as you are BFing your child will be receiving your antibodies - so depending upon how long you decide to BF that may allow you a longer delaying period where you still feel comfortable.

[basketcase]

More MMR questions - if you have delayed or plan to delay the MMR, when did/will you have it done? Also, if your child has already had the MMR, how old was he/she and were there any reactions?

Do the recent measles outbreaks have any bearing on your decision?

We did the MMR when DS was 3 1/2 years old. He broke out in a rash all over his back a few days later, but that was it. ITA with Marisa, I'm glad we waited until he was verbal. He was able to tell me if it was itchy or bothersome of if he had pain anywhere else (he didn't). It gave me peace of mind with a vaccine that I was the most nervous about.

The measles outbreak has no bearing on my decision. My DD is 15 months old and if we decide to do the MMR for her, we will wait until she is at least three.

[Sevilla]

More MMR questions - if you have delayed or plan to delay the MMR, when did/will you have it done? Also, if your child has already had the MMR, how old was he/she and were there any reactions?

Do the recent measles outbreaks have any bearing on your decision?
We plan to do the MMR and his doctor recommends waiting until age 4-5 when they start school.

[Smittenk]

We are going to do the MMR separately but I am a little confused as to what is best...all three on the same day but just separated, spaced out over a few months of each other or what? Any advice?

[Kanga]

I definitely would not split and do them on the same day! The reasoning behind splitting them up is so that dc doesn't get 3 live viruses at once. The catch-22 to splitting them up is that dc is receiving 3 times the preservatives and other junk in vaccines.

[Sevilla]

If you decide to split them up then I would give them spaced months apart. We personally aren't planning to split it up.

[kmack]

Kmack - I'm living overseas too, and had the same questions for our doctor here, who is Australian. Turns out the mening. vaccine is a different formulation here (SE Asia) than the one given in the US when the child is older. The strain they use here is more targetted to the types of meningitis they see in the region, but focussed, and given earlier. The US vaccine is more of a broad spectrum vaccine, apparently. At least, that is how I understood the explanation. Basically, they are vaccinating for different strains. Ask your ped there - you should take the long version of the CDC immunization schedule with you. The footnotes on each vaccine have more information.

thanks for the info - do you know the name of the men. vax they give where you are? i will take along the cdc schedule over here but i find that the response to any questions i have are "well we do things differently than the US" so i guess they just figure i will have to deal with it. it's very frustrating!

[catmom]

Could someone with the sears book post or PM me with his delayed schedule? I've misplaced my copy, and need to take the babies for the 2 month wbv this afternoon.

[solongtogo]

Would the rotavirus vaccine give babies very bad gas? I didn't have to go through rotavirus vaccine with my first, but my baby has had terrible gas since getting it...

[mcgwigan]

solongtogo I would think that it may since it's a live virus...my peds office doesn't give it routinely, only if you ask for it, since they had some bad experiences with the old vaccine and they said this one is too new for them to just give routinely. Maybe you should give your pediatrician's office a call, just in case.

[littlebear]

The following were reported more often in infants who received RotaTeq™, when compared to those who received placebo; diarrhea (24.1% in vaccine recipients vs 21.3% in those receiving placebo), vomiting (15.2% in vaccine recipients vs 13.6% in those receiving placebo), ear infection (14.5% in vaccine recipients vs 13.0% in those receiving placebo), runny nose and sore throat (6.9% in vaccine recipients vs 5.8% in those receiving placebo), wheezing and coughing (1.1% in vaccine recipients vs 0.7% in those receiving placebo).

http://www.fda.gov/cber/products/rotamer020306qa.htm

Since it lists diarrhea as one of the side effects, it makes sense that gas would also be related.

[scout]

This was on the CBS evening news last night regarding the HPV vaccine. 18 girls have died, 8,000 more have developed complications such as genital warts, paralysis, and seizures. Not suprisingly, the CDC and Merck are denying they are linked. I just don't understand why the CDC and Merck refuse to listen to mothers who know their kids have been hurt by vaccines.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/07/eveningnews/main4239462.shtml?source=RSSattr=CBSEveningNews_42 39462

I never did understand the need for the HPV vaccine.

[scout]

Catmom Did somebody already PM you with the alternate vax schedule? If not, let me know. I have it.

[janu98]

Hi ladies!! I have a question we may have on an issue we may have.... We have split up DS MMR vax's (he is 20 months old) he has both MM's and we are currently waiting for the Rubella to come back in stock sometime in mid sept. The issue lies with they daycare. Our Pedi's office filled out his annual medical form and on it they put that he is NOT fully immunized. Can the daycare ask us to take him out until he fully vaccinated? What have you ladies done in a situation like this? Our pedi's office have been real pain the a$$ about the whole splitting up his vaccines so they are no help. The only thing they told me was "well we can give him the whole MMR" umm nooooo why would I go to the trouble of separating them and have you jerks give him the whole MMR! UGH I feel like such a stupid a$$ whenever I tell the nurses or docs that we separated his shots they look at you like you are the worst parent in the world and you are doing so wrong for your child!!! :mad:

Ok my rant is over! but does anyone have solution to my question?

Thanks!!!

[Kanga]

Hi ladies!! I have a question we may have on an issue we may have.... We have split up DS MMR vax's (he is 20 months old) he has both MM's and we are currently waiting for the Rubella to come back in stock sometime in mid sept. The issue lies with they daycare. Our Pedi's office filled out his annual medical form and on it they put that he is NOT fully immunized. Can the daycare ask us to take him out until he fully vaccinated? What have you ladies done in a situation like this? Our pedi's office have been real pain the a$$ about the whole splitting up his vaccines so they are no help. The only thing they told me was "well we can give him the whole MMR" umm nooooo why would I go to the trouble of separating them and have you jerks give him the whole MMR! UGH I feel like such a stupid a$$ whenever I tell the nurses or docs that we separated his shots they look at you like you are the worst parent in the world and you are doing so wrong for your child!!! :mad:

Ok my rant is over! but does anyone have solution to my question?

Thanks!!!

I've never been in that position, so I don't know how much help this is, but have you asked around at other dr. offices to see if they have it in stock or can get it? If you can't find anybody in your area, I'd probably tell the daycare (if they asked, that is) that you want to get it and do plan on it, but they are out of stock so you'll get it as soon as it comes in?

[Marisa]

janu - in NJ they cannot deny you admission if you can show that you are actively "catching him up" on any missed shots. They can give you "provisional admission", in good faith that you are working toward getting him fully immunized. I believe that in NJ if your child is under age five, you have 18 months to fully catch up on anything he's missed. They can ask for a doctor's note stating that whatever shots he's missed are scheduled (since you know that you will get the Rubella when it comes in next month).

You'll have to check into your state's requirements, and then ask the daycare how they want you to proceed (if they'll need a note, etc.) It may be that if you can provide updated documentation by the end of September, that's all they'll require.

[CarlaB]

We've skipped MMR for now. I provide my daycare with a note from the ped (on prescription pad) saying "MMR deferred until mm/yr". That has been sufficient for us so far.

[tgal]

OK, I have another MMR question. Our ped just informed us two weeks ago that Merck is seizing production on the split MMR and their re-order was denied. DD#1 is fine because they had enough shots remaining in the office to cover the M&R that she didn't have, those are being saved for her, but they told me that DD#2 when the time comes will have to have the combined shot if another pharmaceutical doesn't pick this up. Has anyone heard about this? I am really curious. For a number of reasons, I am more concerned with DD#2 having a combined shot than I was with DD#1.

[AmyE]

Scout - scary report, definitely. However, I don't see any control data published in the news story. (Which is no surprise - the media is awful, and rarely provides any background when they have scary headlines.) What I mean is that I'd like to see how many unvaccinated girls in the same age group have had seizures and other illnesses that are similar. The link to the vax would then be more convincingly reported. (I'm thinking of this because I had a small seizure after a blood test of all things. I'm totally a wuss about needles, so it was most likely stress. Never repeated.)

DH and I have already decided that we aren't giving our kids a vax that hasn't been out for at least 5 years, unless the circumstances or dangers were truly immediate and very compelling.

[Monty]

This was on the CBS evening news last night regarding the HPV vaccine. 18 girls have died, 8,000 more have developed complications such as genital warts, paralysis, and seizures. Not suprisingly, the CDC and Merck are denying they are linked. I just don't understand why the CDC and Merck refuse to listen to mothers who know their kids have been hurt by vaccines.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/07/eveningnews/main4239462.shtml?source=RSSattr=CBSEveningNews_42 39462

I never did understand the need for the HPV vaccine.

Just an interesting side note...did anyone see the new show "The Doctor's" yesterday? They had a long discussion about the HPV vaccine, and they had one young girl and her mother on explaining how the vaccine had caused her daughter to faint and now she is suffering with horrible knee (joint) pain. The drs didn't think it was vaccine related, and said that this vaccine was safe...yet they had a "specialist" (sorry, can't remember where she was from) saying it was an unproven vaccine, and that the manufacture and the CDC fast tracked this vaccine and that it's dangerous and unproven! All the drs on the show were all for it, I really wish they would have put a holistic specialist or a non-modern medicine dr. in the mix....I hate hearing all of these drs and their westernized views. (...ok....rant over!)

[Annette]

Question about the Tdap vaccine. At the hospital, the doctors and nurses suggested we get the Tdap vaccine, so the baby doesn't get whooping cough if we were to pick it up. Now I remember reading somewhere that the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission of the virus. Is that true? Is it pointless to get this vaccine?

[Kanga]

Just an interesting side note...did anyone see the new show "The Doctor's" yesterday? They had a long discussion about the HPV vaccine, and they had one young girl and her mother on explaining how the vaccine had caused her daughter to faint and now she is suffering with horrible knee (joint) pain. The drs didn't think it was vaccine related, and said that this vaccine was safe...yet they had a "specialist" (sorry, can't remember where she was from) saying it was an unproven vaccine, and that the manufacture and the CDC fast tracked this vaccine and that it's dangerous and unproven! All the drs on the show were all for it, I really wish they would have put a holistic specialist or a non-modern medicine dr. in the mix....I hate hearing all of these drs and their westernized views. (...ok....rant over!)

Darn, I missed it I would have like to see it. What station was it on, maybe there will be a rerun sometime?

And yeah, HPV is one of the most pointless vaccines yet, IMO.

[merjmo]

Question about the Tdap vaccine. At the hospital, the doctors and nurses suggested we get the Tdap vaccine, so the baby doesn't get whooping cough if we were to pick it up. Now I remember reading somewhere that the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission of the virus. Is that true? Is it pointless to get this vaccine?

Tdap is only for teenagers, but Dtap is probably what you're thinking of? I've just skimmed my section on pertussis in the Vaccine Book and didn't see it (but I'm skimming, and I don't remember that from my previous reading). People don't always give this b/c they don't feel we need the diptheria or tetanus vax in babies. Pertussis is a different story and can kill young babies, BUT, it's can kill babies too young to have been vaccinated yet if they get it from older kids (anywhere, not just within the family).

Dr. Sears notes that the main drawbacks to this vaccine are the ingredients, but he sees a lot of pertussis and considers this "an important vaccine for infants and toddlers." HTH.

[Kanga]

Question about the Tdap vaccine. At the hospital, the doctors and nurses suggested we get the Tdap vaccine, so the baby doesn't get whooping cough if we were to pick it up. Now I remember reading somewhere that the vaccine doesn't prevent transmission of the virus. Is that true? Is it pointless to get this vaccine?

I'm not sure - I tried googling to see what I could come up with, but I didn't get much.

I do know though that nobody recommended any vaccines to me or my dh when my girls were born (hospital births). While it makes sense to me that you would be able to transmit it if you came into contact with pertussis, you will also pass on any antibodies through breastmilk if you're breastfeeding or pumping.

I personally would skip the vaccine, but of course I don't do any vaccines at all so my comfort level may be higher than yours. Even though whooping cough is no fun at all and I really hope my kids never get it, the vaccine isn't all that effective and is one of the more reactive ones.

This is just one example

In 1993, Cincinnati reported that 40% of children who caught pertussis were vaccinated appropriately for their age.

link (http://909shot.com/Diseases/whooping.htm)

[Sevilla]

No, she's talking about Tdap which is for teenagers and adults. In the past year a major campaign has been underway to vaccinate adults with booster doses for the pertussis b/c it is still so common in spite of childhood vaccination. There have been a series of internet, TV, and print ads targeting new parents and new moms specifically with slogans like "I did it for Jessica" with a few sentences explaining why the adult got vaccinated - to protect a new baby.

To be honest it is one I am on the fence about b/c while the pertussis vaccine is one of the less effective ones, i can see that having adults vaccinated against it would help reduce the rate. I think it's one of those things that you should research and evaluate based on your own comfort level and feeling about risk factors.

[steelcitymama]

i've been selective about my vaxing and DD is on a delayed schedule. not trying to push anyone, of course, but just wanted to share my own personal experience. i had whooping cough a few years back - in part of the upswing of adults contracting it - and it was HORRIBLE. seriously, it was so uncomfortably awful and it was very difficult to breathe. and the coughing spells just went on & on & on. i can't even imagine what it would be like for a baby to have whooping cough. :( definitely sucks that the vax isn't super-effective though...

[Kanga]

i've been selective about my vaxing and DD is on a delayed schedule. not trying to push anyone, of course, but just wanted to share my own personal experience. i had whooping cough a few years back - in part of the upswing of adults contracting it - and it was HORRIBLE. seriously, it was so uncomfortably awful and it was very difficult to breathe. and the coughing spells just went on & on & on. i can't even imagine what it would be like for a baby to have whooping cough. :( definitely sucks that the vax isn't super-effective though...

I've had it too. I was never dx'd by a dr., but I did have coughing spells and restrictive airway where it's nearly impossible to breathe and lasted for weeks. I agree, it completely sucks and I wouldn't wish on it anyone. But, OTOH, the disease seems to be a cyclical disease of about every 7 years despite vaccination rates so I don't think the vaccine is the answer.

[steelcitymama]

interesting info, kanga re: the cyclical aspect. i wasn't aware of that!

[merjmo]

Oh, sorry about my misunderstanding!

[Monty]

Darn, I missed it I would have like to see it. What station was it on, maybe there will be a rerun sometime?

And yeah, HPV is one of the most pointless vaccines yet, IMO.

It's on CBS and is actually produced by Dr. McGraw and his son. Kinda interesting, but nothing to "write home about!" :)

So, I'm still having MAJOR heartburn about even doing the Sear's Vax schedule and was looking at buying a few other reference books. This one came highly recommended, "What Your Dr. May not Tell you" by Stephaine Cave.....any reviews?

TIA!

[daphne]

So, I'm still having MAJOR heartburn about even doing the Sear's Vax schedule and was looking at buying a few other reference books. This one came highly recommended, "What Your Dr. May not Tell you" by Stephaine Cave.....any reviews?

TIA!

It's certainly worth reading. I think it's a bit less conservative than Sears book, which I found to be quite pro-vax, but not as anti-vax as others out there.

[mcgwigan]

Flu Shot question: I called the pediatrician's because I would like DS (7 months) and my DSS 10 yrs to get the flu shot this year-DH & I will as well. The Flu shot they had at the pediatrician's has the full 25 microgram dos of mercury in it - even though when I initially called I was told it only had a trace amount. Futhermore, I just read in my Dr.Sears book that as of the 2006-2007 flu season that one -FluLaval-was approved for ages 18 & older.:mad:

Anyway-I definately don't want my children to have all that mercury-especially the baby! Has anyone dealt with ordering in a different brand of Flu shot (or anything for that matter). Would I need a prescription from the Dr's and have a pharmacy order for me, then take it to my Dr's to be administered?? I wondered if my Dr's office would have a different one with no mercury if they would administer it to the kids.

[Marisa]

You might want to call the town's health dept. and see if they are planning to offer the flu shot through clinics or something -- they might have a different brand/formulation available. Also my local supermarket's pharmacy had a clinic at some point. It might be easier to just find another provider for this one shot, rather than have to order your own....

[Monty]

So, for those of you that are delaying or not vaccinating are you still going to your WB visits? HOnestly, they seem kinda pointless if you aren't getting a shot. I can weigh my DD at home to make sure that is normal....or should I still take her? Just curious what you guys are doing.....THANKS!

Also, is there a thread for specifically not vaccinating, or is this it?

[Marisa]

We do go to WBV, I guess it's just nice to have another pair of eyes to look at your baby. They talk about milestones, listen to her heartbeat, check her reflexes and her hips, things like that. If you trust that your dr. won't be giving you a hard time with parenting advice or anything, then I don't see any reason not to go and just 'check in'. I find that my dr. really leaves me alone about almost everything, and I think it's in part because she knows that I'll come in for WBV and she'll see my boys if there's really something wrong.

I think there were two threads at one point, like 'pro-vax' and 'anti-vax', but it blew up in some drama. Now there's this thread, and I think the 'pro-vax' is still floating around somewhere. I actually post in both (we selectively delay/skip) -- it's not quite as black and white as pro/anti to me.

[MrsSpencer]

Ds will be going in for his 6 month on the 25th...is their any shots I should avoid? Any news ones that are different from 2 and 4 months? (They only tell you the day you bring them in what shots they are getting and what they're for).

[Marisa]

If you have been vaccinating on schedule so far, then what they will most likely offer is the next in the series for Polio, DTaP, PCV, Rotavirus and Hep B. All of these shots have a third dose which can be administered starting at 6 months.

You may also be offered a flu shot, this is optional.

I've printed out a copy of this chart from the CDC - it's a pdf file:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/schedules/downloads/child/2008/08_0-6yrs_schedule_pr.pdf

[MrsSpencer]

thanks marisa..I wasn't sure when the questionable shots start?

[Marisa]

Some people would say that all of them are questionable! :) I personally don't get all of the shots that they recommend on the schedule they offer here, because I think that it's too many at once for a tiny baby's body. We read about each shot ahead of time and decided which ones were important to get first, and which we could delay (Hep B) or skip entirely (rotavirus).

The one that worries a lot of people is the MMR, which can be offered as early as 12 months (some offices do it at 15 or 18 months though). There is some thought that it is linked in some way to autism because symptoms begin showing up at around that age, and many parents have noticed reactions that could only be attributed to the shot. There is some discussion now that autism is an underlying condition, something that some children are more susceptible to than others, and that the shots don't cause autism, but rather trigger something in these children's brains. This is why I waited until age 3 to get the MMR for my DS1 -- I wanted his language and everything to be well established so that I could tell if there was a big difference after the shot.

[MrsSpencer]

Thanks for the info on the MMR..I knew there was one BIG shot that people thought was causing autism..I think I'll wait on that one..he does real well with the rest of his shots.

[mcgwigan]

We've been getting all of them, except for rotovirus-skipped that one. I only have them give him one shot at a time, with the exception of HIB & PC-I let them give those together.

We also go to all the WBV. The Dr's office keeps better records than I do and they do check on all the developmental stuff as well as environmental -stuff around home -that I probably wouldn't think about. He also gives me good tips about behaviors and explains some behavioral stuff to me do.

[Kanga]

I won't go in to the whole drama behind the vax threads but yeah, this is basically it. People who want a more pro vax opinion about something, post in that one. People who are more open to skipping post in this one (and then some post in both).

We do the occasional WBV/WCV. God forbid CPS should ever come knocking on my door, I'll at least have a medical papertrail albeit irregular. We took dd2 in a week after birth, and 2 months after birth. She hasn't been back since. Dd1 hasn't been since she was 16 months old (same time as dd1 was born). I plan on taking dd1 in at 3yo and dd2 in at 2 yo and roughly every year/year and a half after that.

In theory we would take them in if they were sick, but they've never been sick enough to go.

At 6 months, the vaccines are the same as 4 months, IIRC. Minus the hep b if your dc got that at birth.

[j*east]

Monty, we do all the WBV. IMO seeing the ped is about much more than the shots, and I don't know enough to check all of her developmental milestones and development--not even close. I think it's important to have a good relationship with your ped, and skipping WBVs makes it hard to do that.

[portlandbride]

Monty We don't give any vaccines but do go to all the WBV. Like j*east said it's more than the shots, it's about having a good relationship with your ped. Mine doesn't give me any flak about not vaccinating, if he did I may be less likely to go.

[Rico'sAlice]

We don't vax. We did the WBV on time up to a 9mo. We were busy around his birthday and so are having a visit at 17 months. I figure we'll have another one a year or so after that. Mostly I go so that the Dr. will be familiar with his normal/baseline in case he does get sick. With a future child I probably will not even do quite as many of the early WBV as I did, (assuming no problems, of course) but it was just nice having the reassurance as a first-time mom. Also since we see a Family Practice Dr. the visits also were nice for me to get a little TLC, nutritional suggestions, etc.

[Monty]

THanks guys...I guess I'll just go to the WBV's for her first year so that we make sure everything is A-Okay! Thanks for all the advice and opinions!! :)

[mcgwigan]

Yay - I just called our County Health Department and they have the mercury free flu shots and I was able to get an appointment for one for the baby & myself as well! Woo-hoo! My pediatrician's office doesn't use the mercury free one, so I was going to skip it if I couldn't find it!

[ambula704]

bump
My DD is 4 months and we decided to delay her shots because she is having some intolerances/GI issues. I didnt feel comfortable vaccinating since she is not 100% well. I dont want to start them (again - she had them at birth and her 2 month WBV) until we get her issues sorted out, but I dont know when that will be.

Now I dont know where to go from here. I want to vaccinate, but I guess Im on a delayed schedule now? Anyone have a link to a delayed schedule or do I just make up my own? Im a little confused!

I dont have a lot of time to read this thread, plus its a little overwhelming! So sorry if this has already been asked!

[SusieQ]

Ambula: Check out The Vaccine Book by Dr. Sears. He has a couple different schedules in there. You can tweek his schedule based on what she's already gotten and what your comfortable with. You can also show it to your Dr. and see what he/she suggests.

[mcgwigan]

Ambula I second the rec. for The Vaccine Book by Dr. Sears. There is a lot to learn though! I basically broke it down so that my DS got just 1 shot at a time and I think that early on, I was spacing them 2 to 4 weeks apart. I would have to look back at his records to know for certain (I'm not sure where they are right now). You pediatrician should be able to help you prioritize them too....mine spent quite a bit of time with me doing that-it was really helpful!

[Sue]

I third the book. Lots of great info. My ped's office does a modified version of his delayed schedule. This (http://www.constantchatter.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1793822&postcount=425) is Ryan's schedule.

[isign]

I'm having a hard time with this one. I took DR Sears schedule to my ped who said they don't separate the vax at all. I'm not feeling comfortable with giving her so many at one time and due to insurance is stuck with this Dr. DD will be delayed until I get get her into a Dr who will atleast have a discussion about them with me. Is anyone else dealing with a ped who is anti delayed/selective?

[mcgwigan]

I wonder if there are any vaccs that you could do through your county health department? I know they do flu, but I'm not sure if they have clinics for other shots - you could always call to see. They may be able to recommend a pedi that is a bit more lenient with the vacc schedule.

[scout]

Is anyone else dealing with a ped who is anti delayed/selective?
I have one of these. What I end up doing is doing "nurse only" appointments, and taking the kids in to get their vaccines on my schedule. I have to deal with a lot of attitude and eye rolls and bullying at the regular appointments. My kids are mostly vaccinated except for flu, rotovirus, and the Hep A and Hep B, but I split the vaccines up and delay. If the CDC wants all kids vaccinated, you'd think that a delayed schedule would be better than no vaccination at all. I can understand the worry for diseases that affect young babies like meningitis, but the pressure to give Hep B boggles my mind. One size fits all doesn't work for all kids.

One interesting thing that I encountered yesterday--for the five year old vaccines, doctors ARE recommending that they are split up. I go to a very, very pro-vaccine doctor, and he recommended that my four year old get a couple of vaccines now at four, and then split the rest up throughout the year.

I think you might be able to order the separate MMR vaccine at Hopewell Pharmacy in New Jersey (mail?). Moms on another message board that I go to do this.

[Marisa]

As of the beginning of this year, separate MMR vaccines are no longer being manufactured. Whatever supply is left (if there is any) is all that there will be for the time being.

http://www.askdrsears.com/thevaccinebook/2009/01/separate-measles-mumps-and-rubella.asp


isign -- I think that delaying (as you're doing) is really your only choice. It's a shame that they've bullied you into this all-or-nothing stance. I feel lucky to have a dr. who is supportive of our getting our kids vaccines on a more spread-out schedule -- heck, if nothing else, it's additional co-pays for them, since we've been known to make appointments just to get one shot.

[Sue]

heck, if nothing else, it's additional co-pays for them, since we've been known to make appointments just to get one shot.

Really? I guess we're lucky, we don't have co-pays for a vaccination only visit.

[Kanga]

I'm having a hard time with this one. I took DR Sears schedule to my ped who said they don't separate the vax at all. I'm not feeling comfortable with giving her so many at one time and due to insurance is stuck with this Dr. DD will be delayed until I get get her into a Dr who will atleast have a discussion about them with me. Is anyone else dealing with a ped who is anti delayed/selective?

Our first ped did not like that we decided to wait to gather more info on vaccines. At the time we had just heard about selective/delayed and not vaccinating at all and wanted to research it more before we continued. She did not like that at all so we switched (that was only one of a whole host of reasons we switched).

I wouldn't consider the Dr. anti delayed/selective just because he won't separate the MMR (if there's other reasons that make you say that, then nevermind).

The manufactures of the separate MM&R quit making it for a period of time and has now ran out. They do plan to make more and last I heard it would be available sometime in 2010 but it's not set in stone. Some offices do still have some left, but for the ones that have never ordered it or have ran it, they don't have another alternative at this point. Hopewell, AFAIK, has ran out too.

ETA: Found a source (http://www.askdrsears.com/thevaccinebook/2009/05/return-of-separate-measles-mumps.asp?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=&utm_content=&utm_campaign=vn1&) and it's actually 2011 that separate MMR will be available.

[isign]

I wasn't speaking of that vax in specific. I took her Dr Sears delayed schedule and right away she said one of them was done in a combo (don't remember now which one) and they don't separate them. It was one of the early ones, since DD had not had any. She's really not open to discussing it and gave me some non-biased info - from a vax company :rolleyes:.

[SusieQ]

ISign: My son's first practice was very pro-vax. They went as far as including a 3 page letter in their "welcome" packet about why they are pro-vax and how they believe that people who delay or don't vax are "taking advantage" of those who do vax, are "irresponsible" etc etc. I stuck with them through my sons 4mth WBV and then decided to switch. Not only b/c of their rigid vax stance but really b/c I didn't feel comfortable even asking them basic questions b/c they sort of rushed me & brushed every thing off very quickly.

My current ped is great, very understanding and willing to work with me and a vax schedule that I feel comfortable with. While he believes that vaccines are safe he also acknowledges and supports that it is my child and at the end of the day I have to feel comfortable with every thing that is going in to my son. I too don't understand, as someone posted up thread, why some docs are so completely closed to even discussing a delayed schedule. If they want everyone vaxed so badly then why not work with the parents instead of shutting them out.

[moderngal]

Is anyone else dealing with a ped who is anti delayed/selective?
We were fired by a practice for not doing the AAP schedule. It sucks because we used this practice from the time our DS was a newborn and we really really liked our doctor. They used to allow parents to delay and skip some, but at my DD's 2mo well visit, they said it was all or we had to find new docs.
We now go to a family practice doc that does his own schedule. (nothing until 6 months, then 1 at a time with at least 1-2 months spacing. And he refuses to give certain vaxes at all.)

As for separating, if you have a compounding pharmacy near by, you can check with them. There's one near me that is able to make MMR separate and send it to a doctor.

[Annette]

We go to a family doctor too, since I found that most peds weren't flexible with the schedule. Unless I can get MMR separate, we'll be delaying that one.

[Pine Tree]

Many public health departments provide vaccinations. My insurance does not cover vaccinations, so we go to the public health department, and it costs about $10 per shot. Also, because we go there, WBV are really all about the child, not about shots which is great. I live in a college town and since the university is a major employer and no one has vaccine insurance coverage the peds are all used to it. I strongly urge everyone to keep up with WBV - there are so many things that peds are looking for at these visits in terms of development, overall health, weight/height etc... I really can't imagine skipping one just because you're delaying vacs.

[CarolinaGirl]

While I was trying to get together an updated school vaccine form today I had to call our department of health to verify with them the vaccines that were required for preschool since the school was telling me that my daughter needed more for this school year (which she didn't and I had to have the ped send them a form stating so)...anyway, when I was on the phone with the nurse from the immunization dept. in our state, I was looking at the requirements for K5-12th grade and noticed that the requirements for measles is 2, mumps 1, and rubella 1. She had just told me that they don't come separate anymore (which I just read the pp that said they will be available as separate vaccines later - thanks). She said that the 2nd MMR is not a booster, but it's purpose is to ensure immunity in children who did not acquire immunity with the first vaccine. So, I asked her if it would be possible to draw a blood titer to see if the child was immune to measles, and if they are, then not get the vaccine. She said that would be possible and then the ped could write a medical exemption form for the 2nd vaccine. Anyone ever heard of someone doing this (getting the titer to possibly confirm immunity and then waiving the 2nd dose)?

[Marisa]

Yep, that's exactly what we did.

DS1 had the MMR at 3 1/2, and then at 4 1/2 we were catching him up to start preschool. He had been exposed to chicken pox in the past but never showed signs, so I had her do a titer for CP at the same time.

My ped did it right in her office, took about a week for the results. DS1 came back immune for MMR (but not for CP, boo!). He had the CP vaccine, and then she initialed the date of the bloodwork showing his MMR immunity.

When we went to apply for Kindergarten the following spring we just brought his up-to-date vax record with that notation, and the school nurse made a notation on the school's record. No biggie.

[dana b]

2nd mmr my ped said he'll do the bloodwork, but hasn't done it before and would need to look into it. my sil had it done for her son. right now, i'm just waiting to see if her school has any issues with our exemption request and if they do, we'll do that.

[moderngal]

Our doc recommends the titers too. :)

[CarolinaGirl]

Yay!! That's good to hear about the titers! I've been worried that my ped won't order one, but hearing that others are doing it gives me some hope for when I talk to her about it next week. Plus, I have a couple of friends who are pediatricians but I don't want to have to ask them to order it since my daughters are not patients of theirs, but I will if I have to.

[allison]

DD had her 2mo. WBV and had her vax's today. I'm new to this, but we gave her baby tylenol at the Dr. office at 11am. We came home and she nursed at 1:30 and quickly went to sleep. She just woke crying and I'm nursing her and she stopped crying but the cry she had wasn't her normal I'm hungry cry. How do you know if your baby is in pain? She seems drowsy still but is nursing just fine.

[lilo]

Ugh. I'm a little upset that Merck is no longer manufacturing the separate MMR. I planned on getting the first component of the MMR for DS after his 3rd birthday this November but now I don't know what to do. He is in daycare full-time so of course there is a chance of him getting something but then again, I hate the idea of him getting the entire vaccine at once. I called a few local pharmacies and they all seem to have run out.

swine flu vaccine for your toddler: I haven't done much research on this but I'm wondering what everyone's thoughts are on this. Again, I'm torn on what to do for my DS.

[mcgwigan]

swine flu vaccine for toddler I think that we are skipping it. I am just not comfortable with it -there's too many unknowns. I know that there was a previous swine flu vaccination -back in the 60's or 70's I think? I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. They had a problem with Guillain Barre Syndrome with that vaccination and I would feel awful if this happened with this go-around. DS does go to daycare so is at risk, but the vaccination is just too new for me and I am not comfortable with it. We will prbably be getting the regular flu shot though.

[PG-rated]

swine flu vaccine for toddler I think that we are skipping it. I am just not comfortable with it -there's too many unknowns. I know that there was a previous swine flu vaccination -back in the 60's or 70's I think? I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. They had a problem with Guillain Barre Syndrome with that vaccination and I would feel awful if this happened with this go-around. DS does go to daycare so is at risk, but the vaccination is just too new for me and I am not comfortable with it. We will prbably be getting the regular flu shot though.

Just to be clear, the H1N1 shot IS the "regular" flu shot - they reformulate it every year to target the most prevalent strain for the year, but this year the development cycle meant that H1N1 wasn't included in the shot, so they've now reworked it again just for H1N1. So if you're not worried about the "regular" shot then you have nothing to worry about with the H1N1 shot.

[littlecindy]

Just to be clear, the H1N1 shot IS the "regular" flu shot - they reformulate it every year to target the most prevalent strain for the year, but this year the development cycle meant that H1N1 wasn't included in the shot, so they've now reworked it again just for H1N1. So if you're not worried about the "regular" shot then you have nothing to worry about with the H1N1 shot.

sort of...

the difference is that it is not 100% certain whether the vaccines that you get will have adjuvants or not (the regular flu shot does not). and while they have mercury free H1N1 shots (and just like a regular flu shot it is fairly standard to give children the mercury free versions), but i am wondering how quickly those will run out and they might start giving the ones with thimerasol to kids.

[pocahontas]

Just wondering if anyone here opted out of the Hep B that I hear is supposed to be given at birth. I read somewhere Hep B is contracted sexually and people didn't quite understand why a newborn would need such a shot. I am curious as to whether this is true. Also, did anyone opt out of the eye goop at birth? Isn't it silver nitrate or some such thing? What bacteria or whatever is it supposed to prevent? :confused:

[KristieW]

Just wondering if anyone here opted out of the Hep B that I hear is supposed to be given at birth. I read somewhere Hep B is contracted sexually and people didn't quite understand why a newborn would need such a shot. I am curious as to whether this is true. Also, did anyone opt out of the eye goop at birth? Isn't it silver nitrate or some such thing? What bacteria or whatever is it supposed to prevent? :confused:

We opted out of the Hep B (got it at her 6mo WBV and have been catching up since then) but were misinformed about the eye goop and so DD got it. :( It's an antibiotic ointment meant to prevent the transmission of certain STDs from the mother to the baby. IIRC, some STDs can cause blindness in infants, so just in case, all babies get it. But as we were quite sure that this wasn't a problem with us :rolleyes:, we wanted to get out of it. We were told we'd have to get a court order :eek: to do so. But later on I was researching other vaccs and came across a link detailing requirements for newborn testing/vaccs/etc. state by state (which unfortunately I can't find anymore :() and found out that all I had to do was say no. Some states require a waiver, I guess. But apparently since it's not considered a test or a vaccine, just a prophylactic treatment, it's easier to refuse. You could probably look on your state government's web page or Google it to find out about your state's requirements.

HTH!

[j*east]

I didn't do the eye goop b/c I know I don't have syphilis or other STDs--I've been tested repeatedly. I did do Hep B, more because I was too tired to think it through than anything. Either way, just make sure you have a plan going in--DD was 4w early and I was unprepared.

Poca, I am sooooo excited for you!

[j*east]

DD had her 2mo. WBV and had her vax's today. I'm new to this, but we gave her baby tylenol at the Dr. office at 11am. We came home and she nursed at 1:30 and quickly went to sleep. She just woke crying and I'm nursing her and she stopped crying but the cry she had wasn't her normal I'm hungry cry. How do you know if your baby is in pain? She seems drowsy still but is nursing just fine.

I just assume DD is sore at the injection site for the first 24-36 hours, and I give tylenol for that time. She mostly reacts to shots by sleeping more than usual. Hope your DD feels better by now!

[Kanga]

Just wondering if anyone here opted out of the Hep B that I hear is supposed to be given at birth. I read somewhere Hep B is contracted sexually and people didn't quite understand why a newborn would need such a shot. I am curious as to whether this is true. Also, did anyone opt out of the eye goop at birth? Isn't it silver nitrate or some such thing? What bacteria or whatever is it supposed to prevent? :confused:

We declined both, along with the vitamin k shot. Hep B is contracted sexually, but they want all newborns to get it before they leave the hospital because it's easier to "catch" them then than it is when they're teenagers.

The eye goop is to prevent blindness or other complications when a baby travels through the birth canal of a woman infected with gonorrhea or chlamydia. It's given to every newborn (unless mom refuses), even if delivered by c-section and mom has already tested negative for both diseases.

I didn't have any problems refusing eye ointment or the hep b, but they were sure up in arms about the vit k. Had dd's birth been traumatic such as forceps delivery or bruising, etc then I might have opted for it, but instead I choose to eat lots of food rich in vit k. The hospital ped said he'd be fine with delaying the hep b until 2 mo (he assumed that on his own, and I let him believe his own assumptions - we don't vaccinate at all) was fine with the eye ointment but tried to scare me into giving the vit k by giving me false statistics. I just nodded, smiled, and thanks but we're still declining it and he quickly gave up.

[kristin]

Hepatitis B has the same transmission modes as HIV. http://www.cdc.gov/hepatitis/

So it is not just transmitted sexually. A mom can pass it on to her infant if she is infected. Sure, she is screened during pregnancy, but it is not a guarantee that she is not infected at the time of birth. I remember reading a study eons ago about the increase rate of Hep B in neonates -likely due to the common misconception that Hep B was just to protect the infants for later down the road when they are teenagers. I'll see if I can dig it up (I think it was published in the J of Pediatrics in 2003).

I have opted to do the Hep B in the hospital because at the time I fell into a high risk category - routinely working with blood products. Although I have done 3 rounds of the 3 series immunizations, I stil don't have sufficient titers :mad: I was in disbelief at my DD's 6 week old check up to find that she did not receive it in the hospital (even though I had specifically requested it)- the doctor wrote a note in the chart that I had refused it! The doctor said my request must have been miscommunicated to him, but I was furious since afterall it was his signature.

ETA: Better article for info on hep B: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5416a1.htm

[Marisa]

If you fall into a low risk category for Hep B, then the main reason for having it administered to newborns is from a 'public health' perspective. Hep B requires three shots given at a standard interval - second shot one month after the first, third shot 4-6 months after the second. It is far, far more likely that parents will still be taking children to regular well-visits during that first year than when they're school age, especially since three separate visits are required. They want to make sure that everyone gets the complete series that is required for immunity.

I think it's becoming more common to decline the Hep B in the hospital, though, as many peds are using a combination shot that includes Hep B as well -- this could result in baby getting an unnecessary extra dose.

If you plan to otherwise fully vaccinate, you might ask the ped's office what they typically use -- it's probably a good thing to ask anyway, to know where your ped stands on vaxes. We space ours out, for example -- Joey didn't get the Hep B series until he was starting preschool at 3 1/2 -- and it was important to me that my dr. would have the individual shots available, not just the combos.


We declined the eye ointment for Teddy as well as the Hep B. In NJ it's not a problem, and both hospitals I've delivered at have had forms prepared that you just have to sign, waiving this procedure. It would seem that this is common enough. You may run into the occasional nurse who wants to 'school' you on how important it is for you to get this shot, but I've found that you can tell them you're keeping all the vaccines together at the ped's office and they will leave you alone.

[dana b]

another possible scenario with hep b in the hospital - the nurse tried to tell me that i had to do it because it was sunday and my dr's office was closed and they had no proof that i was hep b negative - hello! can't you just ask me?! i just told her to give me the waiver.

[littlebear]

I think it's becoming more common to decline the Hep B in the hospital, though, as many peds are using a combination shot that includes Hep B as well -- this could result in baby getting an unnecessary extra dose.

If you plan to otherwise fully vaccinate, you might ask the ped's office what they typically use

Yes. I declined Hep B in the hospital for both of my kids because our ped informed us that she does it combined with HIB at the first WBV. I had no problem at all with the hospital. So if you are interviewing peds then you should definitely check on this.

[mcgwigan]

We declined HepB in the hospital and our Ped ordered it separate for us - I had them do 1 vaccination at a time -yes, I had to make extra trips in with him for shots, but that's what I felt comfortable with.

We went ahead with the eye goop and vitamin K just because no one asked -that I was aware of anyways! I had a c-section and DH went with the baby to the nursery while they were closing me up-so they may have asked him-I'm not certain. That didn't bother me though.

allison My DS was totally tired after his 2 month wbv -I don't remember which shot we had that day. I specifically remember though because I was taking "month" shots for each month birthday & I forgot to take his picture before we went for his wbv, so I took it afterwards and this is what I got:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff317/mcgwigan/2008_04162Months0002.jpg

I remember being totally nervous that day becuase he jut slept & slept! Trust me, it's harder when they are totally cranky!

[moderngal]

I had a homebirth, so there was no option for Hep B at birth. But we were offered and declined the Vitamin K shot and the eye goop.
Our doctor will not give Hep B to infants so it's a non-issue for us right now.

For the flu shot, I am still deciding for DS.
DD has a religious exemption on file and (knock on wood) she's very healthy. DS however has asthma and has been hospitalized multiple times for breathing related issues. So if anyone in our house should get the flu shot, it's him. Plus he's all caught up on vaxes and a flu shot is required for school in NJ. So I need to call our doctor and I'm leaning towards having DS get it.
DH never gets it. And although I work in healthcare, I will not be getting one either.

[Annette]

We declined Hep B also. I know I'm Heb B negative and DS's risk is really low.

[pocahontas]

I didn't do the eye goop b/c I know I don't have syphilis or other STDs--I've been tested repeatedly. I did do Hep B, more because I was too tired to think it through than anything. Either way, just make sure you have a plan going in--DD was 4w early and I was unprepared.

Poca, I am sooooo excited for you!THANKS J*EAST!

And thanks for all the good information. Right after I asked the question we attended our Infant Care Class and an unexpected but nice feature of the class was they invited a ped to come and speak for about 20 minutes then he took another 15 minutes or so of questions and you know, of course, the only thing I wanted to know all about. :D So I did get the Hep B question answered. Only thing is that he is NOT the ped we are going with. Soooo, his answers really represent him not the woman we're intereviewing. But I'll get to talk with her soon enough since I'm making an appt. for the 20th. THANKS AGAIN, LADIES!

[ShannonGH]

For those that held out on MMR for awhile, when did you go ahead (or when do you plan to) get it?

[daphne]

For those that held out on MMR for awhile, when did you go ahead (or when do you plan to) get it?

DS got his at his 4 yr WCV & DD got hers at her 2 yr WCV.

[boilermaker]

I had planned to get it around 3 yrs but ended up getting it at DD's 18m WBV because at the time we were planning a move to a less developed country.

[TerpsFan]

MMR - We're planning on getting it at her 2yr WCV (pending she's in good health at the time)

[krbb]

MMR - DS received it at his 2-year check up and I plan to have DD get it at that time too.

Hep B - The hospital gave me no problem declining it, just signed a waiver. I haven't decided when DD will get it, but her Dr does do the combined shot. I swear the shot they normally give has three things in it Hep B, polio and something else. So she had to get more shots since they were separated.

[Marisa]

MMR -- we did it at 3.5 for DS1 - the summer before he started preschool. We will do the same for DS2, he will be a little less than 3.5 in the summer of 2011.