Hillary Clinton - Question for Dems [Archive]

jimmysgirl424

08-21-2006, 11:25 AM

No. I don't want to see her run. Not because I don't think she would make a great president (which I do) but because of her "electability" factor. Hilary presents a personality and attitude which has long made people either love her or hate her. Ultimately, her running at this particular juncture in American politics could be disaster for our party. She will tear the American public right down the middle and could very well end up handing the next presidential election to the Republican party as a result.

Additionally, although this is not my personal opinion; I have heard people say that she doesn't have enough experience and needs to serve a term as a full fledged Senator, not just as a junior Senator.

chrisinluv

08-21-2006, 11:32 AM

I think she would make a great president. I don't think it will be possible. I have no doubts that she would win the primary, , but the question for me is whether or not she could hold her own against John McCain.

I think the only female dem who could have a chance at beating him is Janet Napalitano, who is currently governor of AZ. In AZ, she is extremely popular, and many would much rather see her go up against McCain.

Etoile

08-21-2006, 11:48 AM

No. I don't want to see her run. Not because I don't think she would make a great president (which I do) but because of her "electability" factor. Hilary presents a personality and attitude which has long made people either love her or hate her. Ultimately, her running at this particular juncture in American politics could be disaster for our party. She will tear the American public right down the middle and could very well end up handing the next presidential election to the Republican party as a result.

I totally agree with this. I actually really like Hillary but I worry that she would have a narrower appeal because of the love-her-or-hate-her quality. We need someone to run who can have widespread appeal and win over the swing voters. This is too crucial of an election to take a risk.

boilermaker

08-21-2006, 12:54 PM

I don't mind Hillary at all but I don't think she is at all the strongest candidate Dems could field in the election. I think we have a better chance winning with a handful of others. Not just her personality but her experience too. Give it a few years!

I totally agree with the love her or hate her mentality.

Rose

08-21-2006, 01:36 PM

No. I don't want to see her run. Not because I don't think she would make a great president (which I do) but because of her "electability" factor.

Ditto, besides the love her or hate her, I don't see this country electing a women president in 2008.

SweetRed

08-21-2006, 04:46 PM

I can't stand her. But putting that aside, I don't think the Dems should run any Senator or Congressperson for election in 2008. The Republicans have mastered the spin of congressional voting records. If the Dems are ever going to stand a chance, they need to find a governor or similar. It's a lot harder (although not impossible) to spin their histories.

MLA

08-21-2006, 05:20 PM

jenahdawn

08-21-2006, 05:32 PM

If he runs, I support Feingold.

Hilary doesn't have enough experience. Not serving a full term as a senator and being first lady for 8 years does not make her ready.

Plus, this country is not going to elect a woman or minority any time soon. *sigh*

(So, let's see what they do with a twice divorced Jewish man who's not afraid to stand behind his beliefs!)

SingleWhiteFemale

08-21-2006, 05:48 PM

Mark Warner, anyone?I agree--I think he is middle-of-the-road enough to attract the "soccer mom" group the Republicans were able to scare-monger votes from in 2004, but still Democrat enough to keep the left happy.

I like Hilary. I don't agree with a few of her choices though. However, no matter what way you spin it, she is a very, very intelligent woman. But combined with the fact many people hate Hilary due to her "Clinton-ness" and the fact many sexist people believe a woman couldn't/shouldn't lead this country... she doesn't stand a whole heck of a lot of chance. The way this country is headed, it is time to make a statement as Democrats that we're tired of this Bush/Republican crap. Unfortunately, we cannot make that statement in addition to supporting Hilary with any hope at being successful.

Rico'sAlice

08-21-2006, 05:53 PM

If he runs, I support Feingold.

Feingold and the late Sen. Wellstone are two of the very few Democrats I've really liked/respected in the past decade or so (well, before that I was a kid...) If he ran I would be totally ready to vote for him.

If Hillary ran and I happened to live in a swing state at the time I would vote for her, but I wouldn't be happy about it.

It would be really strange though for Feingold to run against McCain, considering their relationship. I remember in 2000 when he came to speak at my school and someone asked him what he would have done if it had been Gore vs. McCain. He said he was glad he didn't have to face that decision. (I asked him about reconciling support for Gore when his (Feingold's) position on things were so much closer to Nader's)
But I'm not sure how things are now...I feel like McCain has really blown his credibility as a "moderate" or "forward thinking" Republican with the way he's been kissing Bush & Co's @$$es.

mrs_pell

08-21-2006, 05:57 PM

I know, I know, I don't belong in here, and I promise I'm not going to say a word about Hillary! :p But, I'm wondering what dems think of Indiana's Evan Bayh. He is a democrat that I'm 99% sure I would vote for since I lived in Indiana when he was governor and he did WONDERFUL things for Indiana. I think he could draw a lot of republican votes, especially from people who are frustrated right now. I know he would win Indiana, who is a VERY red state. From what I understand, he's testing the waters right now and won't decide until later in the year if he'll see the nomination or not.

jenahdawn

08-21-2006, 05:59 PM

But could you imagine the campaign between McCain and Feingold? It would be the closest thing to a "gentlemens race" we'd ever see. Between who can sling LESS mud and who could spend the least amount of money, it'd be an interesting race to watch.

The ONLY reason I don't want Feingold to run is because I don't want Wisconsin to lose him, but then the entire country could share....I've already told him (via email) and everyone I know that the day he officially announces he's running, I will walk into his election office (I live about 4 miles from his hometown) and volunteer any time I could....but it looks like I will be a little busy...

jenahdawn

08-21-2006, 06:00 PM

But, I'm wondering what dems think of Indiana's Evan Bayh.

This is what this dem/liberal thinks of him:

Who is he? Never heard of him. (Same with Wagner)

mrs_pell

08-21-2006, 06:03 PM

This is what this dem/liberal thinks of him:

Who is he? Never heard of him. (Same with Wagner)

Well, at least he can't be that bad or you would've at least heard of him, right? :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evan_Bayh

colz85

08-21-2006, 06:08 PM

However, no matter what way you spin it, she is a very, very intelligent woman. But combined with the fact many people hate Hilary due to her "Clinton-ness" and the fact many sexist people believe a woman couldn't/shouldn't lead this country

Yep. I think she's scary smart and would do a good job, but just say the name "Hilary Clinton" and some people just froth at the mouth with hatred. She's just to polarizing.

I think Bayh is an interesting idea. IMO, running a "blue candidate from a red state" might be the way to go for the dems. He'd have that whole middle America thing going, and wouldn't have to face the criticism of "eastern liberal elite" that Kerry had to deal with.

berry

08-21-2006, 06:34 PM

deleted

ThreeYell

08-21-2006, 06:57 PM

He is a democrat that I'm 99% sure I would vote for since I lived in Indiana when he was governor and he did WONDERFUL things for Indiana. I think he could draw a lot of republican votes, especially from people who are frustrated right now. I know he would win Indiana, who is a VERY red state.

You could say the same thing about Mark Warner and what he accomplished in Virginia, another red state. Plus, Warner's just got it. I've seen him speak and he is magnetic. And hot, in a political kind of way. :p

I wouldn't have any problems voting for Hillary, except if she's the nominee I'll be dead. You see, if we nominate another northeastern senator, I'm going to shoot myself.

bookworm

08-21-2006, 07:03 PM

I hated her, then I liked her, and now...eh. I'd like to see a woman in the oval office. And policy-wise she'd actually be pretty good. But the pandering really doesn't do it for me.

Is it so hard to find a fiscally responsible, socially liberal candidate? It seems like everyone I know fits this mold...why can't we find one who is not all smarmy?

My friend has been saying Warner since 2004...but dammit, another southern white guy? I'd take him v. the alternative (and I used to be a McCain fan, until 2004), but sheesh.

mrs_pell

08-21-2006, 07:09 PM

You could say the same thing about Mark Warner and what he accomplished in Virginia, another red state. Plus, Warner's just got it. I've seen him speak and he is magnetic. And hot, in a political kind of way. :p

I'm assuming Warner's a moderate democrat if he was elected in a red state (like Bayh)?? Obviously, I don't know much (any) about him.

One of the things that I really like about Bayh is what he's done for Indiana's education system, most notably moving them from 40th in the nation for sending kids to college to 9th, by helping all low/middle income kids get full scholarships in return for good grads and staying drug-free. Plus, he's very pro-small business and fiscally conservative.

I can't believe I'm discussing democratic politics on a message board! :p

MLA

08-21-2006, 07:11 PM

If you're interested in learning a bit more about Mark Warner, here's a website about him:

http://www.draftmarkwarner.com/

amew

08-21-2006, 08:42 PM

You could say the same thing about Mark Warner and what he accomplished in Virginia, another red state. Plus, Warner's just got it. I've seen him speak and he is magnetic. And hot, in a political kind of way.

Hmm. I was at a fundraiser for Warner a few months ago, and I didn't get that vibe. DH and I were both prepared to love him (DH is from VA and has followed Warner for a while), and he just left me totally unenthused. He seemed like a very nice guy, but I felt like his speech was uninspiring and his message convoluted. I worry that he would have the same problem as Gore and Kerry in terms of ability to really get people excited and voting. Don't get me wrong--I like the guy and think he's a good politician--but he is not my top pick for President, both because I think he's a little too moderate, and because I question his electibilty. Incidently, I was also a tad underwhelmed when I saw Obama speak a couple months ago, though I think I may have gone into the fundraiser with unrealistic expectations. His speech was actually very blah. On the other hand, I saw Edwards speak recently for the second time, and there's a guy I be willing to jump off a cliff for. He would be my personal choice for the nomination.

As for Hillary, I like her, but wish she would quit with the war mongering and get back to her roots a bit. I certainly have concerns about her electibility, but I also think you can't underestimate the sheer power of the Clintons to get themselves into office. I think she has more of a shot than some people seem willing to give her credit for. And because of who she is, she is the closest thing the next election will have to an incumbent, and I honestly think she would see a bit of the incumbent advantage. Plus part of me thinks that we would be better off with someone like Hillary who people have strong feelings about, even if some people hate her, than another John Kerry who leaves people uninspired. While many can't stand her, she has a tremendous number of extremely loyal admirers as well. She's not my top pick, but she's not my last either.

msnicolea

08-22-2006, 08:09 AM

Russ Feingold is my man, too--I adore him.

allyray231

08-22-2006, 08:42 AM

Not a fan of Hilary and she is my senator ( I did not vote for her and I ALWAYS vote Dem)

I would not support her. And if the Dems think for 1 second that the American people would vote for a woman pres-they are crazy (sad but true)

jimmysgirl424

08-22-2006, 09:28 AM

While many can't stand her, she has a tremendous number of extremely loyal admirers as well. She's not my top pick, but she's not my last either.

And therein lies the problem. Hilary inspires as much (if not more) hatred as she does love from people. If she runs in this election; she will put this country on a very divisive path that could (and probably will) split it right down the middle. The people that love her will most likely flock to the polls in droves to vote her. BUT...the people that hate her will also be sure to flock to the polls in droves. To vote against her. No matter who it is on the opposing side. I think there are many, many, many people in this country who would do anything at all to keep her out of the White House, no matter what the cost.

The Democratic party just cannot afford to take the risk of polarizing this country by supporting Hilary's nomination at this time. It would be politicial suicide for sure.

lawyergirl25

08-22-2006, 09:33 AM

Love Russ and would vote for him in a heartbeat. Evan Bayh is, as a PP said, an interesting idea. Hillary, well, I like her, but I don't think she's the right choice for our next Dem candidate.

Off to read about Mark Warner...

jenahdawn

08-22-2006, 10:14 AM

bookworm: Not southern, but still a white guy, check him out:

http://feingold.senate.gov/
http://www.russfeingold.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Feingold

And this one has points laid out:

http://www.russforpresident.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogsection&id=4&Itemid=36

wine_o_girlie

08-22-2006, 11:32 AM

I am firmly in the Warner camp due to my perception of "electability". I agree 100% with all comments re: Hilary and her polarizing nature. I personally would vote for her but she'd bring all the crazies out to vote in 08.

Evan Bayh is a great idea but IMO he could not even begin to deliver Indiana to the Dems and Indiana has a lot less electroral votes than VA plus he is a lot less well known. IMO, Warner has a great chance of delivering VA for the Dems. For that reason among others, Warner is my top choice. Bayh as a VP would be a possibility but 2 white guys of roughly the same age and seemingly "similar", eh, I don't know but it's a possibility.

I'd possibly be up for Biden being Warner's VP candidate but I don't think he would suck it up and be the Veep. I think he is delusional that he could be the Presidential candidate.

Russ Feingold rocks my world and I would be happier than a pig in shit to see a Warner/Feingold in 08 campaign but I know I am dreaming. :)

kedzieb

08-22-2006, 02:50 PM

I am firmly in the Warner camp due to my perception of "electability". I agree 100% with all comments re: Hilary and her polarizing nature. I personally would vote for her but she'd bring all the crazies out to vote in 08.

Evan Bayh is a great idea but IMO he could not even begin to deliver Indiana to the Dems and Indiana has a lot less electroral votes than VA plus he is a lot less well known. IMO, Warner has a great chance of delivering VA for the Dems. For that reason among others, Warner is my top choice. Bayh as a VP would be a possibility but 2 white guys of roughly the same age and seemingly "similar", eh, I don't know but it's a possibility.

Either of them is OK with me but I'm not really inspired by either. Your post made me giggle though since ALL the presidents/vp's have been white guys around the same age. Hee! (and sob)

mrs_pell

08-22-2006, 06:42 PM

Evan Bayh is a great idea but IMO he could not even begin to deliver Indiana to the Dems and Indiana has a lot less electroral votes than VA plus he is a lot less well known.

I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly. Are you saying that if Evan Bayh were to run in '08 that Indiana would still vote for the republican? If that *is* what you're saying, I very very much disagree. I would bet almost any amount of money on Indiana turning blue for Bayh. From Wikipedia: "In the 2004 election he received more votes in Indiana than President Bush, a feat unheard of by a Democrat in a state as staunchly Republican as Indiana." Indiana LOVES him!!

If you're just pointing out that even if Indiana does go blue it won't matter that much b/c of their fewer votes, than I could agree with that.

Thanks for the link on Warner, MLA. I also looked him up on "on the issues" and I agree with him on a lot and disagree with him on a lot. Same goes for pretty much anyone these days, though, including Bayh. Right now, I'm just hoping for a moderate republican OR democrat that I can get behind. I'm tired of the die-hards on either side.

jenahdawn

08-22-2006, 07:05 PM

plus he is a lot less well known

You can't disagree with this. Senators tend to be more well known....

mrs_pell

08-22-2006, 07:13 PM

You can't disagree with this. Senators tend to be more well known....

I'm not disagreeing with that. Honestly, I don't know how well known he is to others, because to me he's a house-hold name. That's why I asked what others thought of him in the first place. I wasn't sure what people other than those from Indiana thought of him. I was just disagreeing with her thought that Indiana wouldn't even vote dem if he ran.

young lioness

08-23-2006, 08:13 AM

I didn't have much of anything against Hillary until she jumped on the whole "sex and violence in video games is ruining our society" bandwagon (an effort to appeal more to the middle and the right). My husband works in the computer game industry (and although his company makes very educational, "rated E for Everyone" games, their parent company also owns the company that makes Grand Theft Auto). There are plenty of other Dem candidates that are more electable and aren't rallying people against the industry that my DH makes his living in.

GeekGirl

08-23-2006, 08:34 AM

wine_o_girlie

08-23-2006, 10:30 AM

I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly. Are you saying that if Evan Bayh were to run in '08 that Indiana would still vote for the republican? If that *is* what you're saying, I very very much disagree. I would bet almost any amount of money on Indiana turning blue for Bayh. From Wikipedia: "In the 2004 election he received more votes in Indiana than President Bush, a feat unheard of by a Democrat in a state as staunchly Republican as Indiana." Indiana LOVES him!!

If you're just pointing out that even if Indiana does go blue it won't matter that much b/c of their fewer votes, than I could agree with that.

We happen to disagree that Indiana will turn blue for a Bayh candidacy. I wouldn't "bet money" on Virginia turning blue for a Warner candidacy but I live near VA and hear the local buzz and there are credible sources that back up this sentiment (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_state_vs._blue_state_divide)

Solid Red states are Alaska, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Nebraska, Oklahoma, North Dakota, South Dakota, Utah, Virginia and Wyoming, which have not voted for a Democratic presidential candidate since 1964. (snip)

Additionally, Virginia elected Democrats to the governorship in 2001 and 2005 — Mark Warner and Tim Kaine respectively. Many speculate that with the growth of Northern Virginia, it may become a swing state in the near future.

I was also pointing out that even if IN went blue it would be less meaningful in terms of electoral votes than if VA goes for the Dems.

Bayh seems like a good guy and one I would like to learn more about. :)

pocket

08-24-2006, 06:59 PM

My godmother is black, liberal and a lifelong democrat. and she's from north carolina and has lived in nyc since she was 18. she cut her teeth in the civil rights movement and worked at planned parenthood for 25 years. she grew up poor but now she is very comfortable. she thinks hilary is a good senator, but she doesn't want her for president. if she wouldn't vote for her, hilary hasn't got a chance.

boilermaker

08-25-2006, 07:22 AM

As a former IN resident who's family still lives there...and they are mostly Republican, I'm going to agree with Mrs Pell here. Indiana LOVES Evan Bayh. Loves him. They tried to pass a law recinding governor terms to keep in office longer. He most definitely could deliver the state in a presidential election, though I absolutely agree that IN has less electoral votes and therefore perhaps not as much influence as VA. I would however argue that many dems in the Midwest have also heard of Bayh, as I know a lot of Ohioans do as well. And he would have a good chance of turning our very divided state blue as well.

I'm just hoping we get several of these good guys running in a clean primary, because I really think we can win in 2008.

Asha

08-25-2006, 07:32 AM

Yeah...I have alot of issues with mouthpieces who say that violence in video games is ruining our society.

/hijack/ there is a actually pretty good evidence in educational psychology that modeling is a powerful learning mechanism. if you are interested at all in the evidence, social cognitive psychologists have extensively researched vicarious learning. the more prolific psychologists in that field are bandura and zimmerman. i don't know of any specific studies specifically with video games largely bc i think a lot of emperical studies using them would be considered unethical so its really not feasible to directly study their true effects. i am not saying that i am against the production of them. just saying that you can't discount the idea that video games may be harmful to children.

LittleFredPunkinHead

08-25-2006, 07:38 AM

I'm an Ohioan who's heard of Bayh! :) I'd vote for him. Of course, I'm a Dem, so that might not count for much. ;)

meganth

08-25-2006, 07:53 AM

Michigander who's heard of Bayh. It helps that i grew up 10 miles from the Indiana boarder though. What office has Bayh been in before governor? He's been around forever and i know it hasn't been just as governor.

jenahdawn

08-25-2006, 10:03 AM

I ACTUALLY heard this Bayh guy's name on TV last night. (First time ever) And, in WI, definitely midwest.

young lioness

08-25-2006, 11:56 AM

/hijack/ there is a actually pretty good evidence in educational psychology that modeling is a powerful learning mechanism. if you are interested at all in the evidence, social cognitive psychologists have extensively researched vicarious learning. the more prolific psychologists in that field are bandura and zimmerman. i don't know of any specific studies specifically with video games largely bc i think a lot of emperical studies using them would be considered unethical so its really not feasible to directly study their true effects. i am not saying that i am against the production of them. just saying that you can't discount the idea that video games may be harmful to children.

I don't disagree that violence isn't a good thing for children to be exposed to. Kids are several years off for us, but DH and I have already had involved discussions about the kinds of video games we feel would be appropriate for our future kids at different ages.

The issue that my DH and I (and lots of people we know who work in the game industry) have is the personal freedom vs. personal responsibility aspects of it. There are adults who like to play violent games. Should these types of games not be available to responsible adults because there are irresponsible parents who buy their kids anything they ask for, or don't pay attention to what their kids are doing/who or what they are playing with? There are rating systems in place to restrict who buys which type of game and help parents to have a basis for deciding which games are OK for their kids. Just because people choose to ignore it (whether it's parents buying inappropriate games, or stores selling to inappropriate age groups) people shouldn't be out to make things difficult for the game industry and the responsible adults who enjoy those games.

*steps off soapbox*

mrs_pell

08-25-2006, 06:57 PM

I'm an Ohioan who's heard of Bayh! :) I'd vote for him. Of course, I'm a Dem, so that might not count for much. ;)

But that's exactly what I wanted to know! :) I figured since I love him (and I'm obviously not exactly a dem ;) ), then maybe the dems *wouldn't* like him.

I'm glad to hear that people in states other than Indiana know of him! I was beginning to thing I was off my rocker for even thinking there was a chance of him running.

meganth ~ He was Indiana's Secretary of State from '86 to '88 and was voted in as governor in '88. He was governor from '89 - '97 and then voted into Senate in '98.

isobel

08-25-2006, 09:08 PM

Hilary, please god no. I think she's okay, though she completely lost my respect when she got all rah rah about the flag burning amendment, but people have such a visceral reaction t her that we would basically be handing the election to the Republicats.

I like Feingold but I do not see him winning wide spread support. And I just can't get enthused about Warner. I know someone who works for his PAC and they aren't a huge fan which says a lot to me.

Basically I have no answers. ;)

GeekGirl

08-26-2006, 07:56 AM

/hijack/ there is a actually pretty good evidence in educational psychology that modeling is a powerful learning mechanism. if you are interested at all in the evidence, social cognitive psychologists have extensively researched vicarious learning. the more prolific psychologists in that field are bandura and zimmerman. i don't know of any specific studies specifically with video games largely bc i think a lot of emperical studies using them would be considered unethical so its really not feasible to directly study their true effects. i am not saying that i am against the production of them. just saying that you can't discount the idea that video games may be harmful to children.

I don't disagree that modeling is a powerful learning mechanism. But modeling your life after a video game is only going to happen if there is little to no parental involvement or supervision, choosing which games are appropriate for young children, and teaching them right from wrong. There are plenty of violent adults who never played violent video games as children, and plenty of children who played violent video games as children who grew up to be normal, well-adjusted adults. I agree with the current rating system of games to help parents choose which games are appropriate for their children - I love to play games, but if I had young children, they certainly wouldn't be playing GTA for a loooong while. All the same, I don't fault GTA and other games like it for any perceived disintegration of our society.