Advice on dog's situation... please!

[Jenyfer9]

I need some advice (or maybe just an outside opinion) on what I'm dealing with. Here's some background: we had our dog boarded at a boarding/doggie daycare place while we went on vacation last week. We've been there before, and never had any problems with the facility or any other dogs while there. There is interaction between dogs for most of the day, so all the dogs are temperment tested before they are allowed in. Anyways, our dog was the victim of a fight (they ruled it was NOT her fault) while she was there, and they took her immediately to their vet to get a bite on her face repaired. We were notified of what was going on, but we didn't get the message until a couple of hours after it happened, so we weren't really a part of the decision making process. They told us that (by the time we returned their call an hour and a half later) she was "back to normal", but had to have 3 staples to repair her wound, and would have to be on antibiotics for 10 days. When we picked her up on Saturday (the fight happened Tuesday morning), the wound didn't look great, but it wasn't infected or anything like that, so it wasn't really an issue. Since, we've been following their (ie, the vet's) instructions to the "T". Oh, and we got the invoice from their vet telling us that the other dog's owner (the one who bit her) had paid $87 for her treatment.

Fast forward to today. I come downstairs this afternoon from getting my boys up from their nap, and I walk into the kitchen to see that she has managed to totally rip open her wound (in the couple minutes that I was upstairs... it was perfectly fine before). It's bleeding, it's nasty. All the staples are gone and nowhere to be found. I called our vet (the other vet is quite a bit further away from our house), and they told me to bring her right over. Long story short, we got her face fixed and it looks 400 times better than it did even before she ripped it open. HOWEVER, it cost us $310 to fix it.

Here's where I need the advice. I don't expect this $310 to be someone else's responsibility, but I'd like to go to either the other vet (or the place where she was being boarded) and say, this shouldn't have happened, and MAYBE recoup SOME of my costs. I mean, she was not at fault in the fight, we were following the vet's orders (as far as we know) TO THE LETTER. My vet wanted to know why she hadn't been wearing a lampshade thing, I told him that we were not given orders to do so (and presumably she hadn't had one while being boarded, so why would she need one 5 days after the fact?). He questioned that. He also couldn't believe that this wound would have been ready to be unstapled in less than 2 days (our appointment was for Friday morning). It just hadn't healed enough. I just feel like since the other vet wasn't dealing with us directly (on the invoice it gives a "discount corporate rate"), they really did a 1/2 a$$ed job on her. I mean, what we had done for her today... there was NO WAY that she would have been "back to normal" when we called if she was under sedation like it claims on the inital visit's invoice. She had this done over 3 hours ago and she's still far from being herself.

Do I have a foot to stand on if I go and contact the other vet about this or am I going to have to chalk it up to the costs of being a dog parent?

[ejs]

If I was in your situation, I would just call it the cost of owning a dog. Dogs will fight, whether they've been temperament tested or not.

[TazLuv]

We board our Molly all the time and if that were to happen to her I'd go back to the kennel first. Explain to them what happened and tell them you'd like to talk to their vet about why it wasn't handled differently. I'm not saying you need the kennel's permission to talk to the vet but just so they're not blindsided by their vet. Then I'd call the vet, ask to speak to somone who is familiar with the case and tell them what happened. I think you totally have a case. IMO, no vet should put staples or stitches in a dog where they can reach them without a cone on. The vet or the kennel should pay for at least part of your second bill, of course you might have to find a new kennel after this.

I'm so sorry this happened to your puppy - good luck.

[Jenyfer9]

of course you might have to find a new kennel after this. Yeah, they might not want to see us again. :( Which sucks because I don't really blame them, it's the other vet that I'm taking issue with. Maybe if I just tell them what happened to give them the heads up that their vet is doing a shoddy job (or at least they did with us)? That way it isn't really on their heads, but maybe they'll give me a free groom or something (she's a rough collie, so those grooms are $$$)!!!

[greenbunny]

Is it common to allow animals to play together when they're being boarded? Or is that a special type of boarding you sought ought? I'm just wondering. I'm a cat owner, so maybe it's different, but we considered boarding one of our cats during our vacation and I'd be really pissed if I found out that she was given access to other cats.

[ejs]

Is it common to allow animals to play together when they're being boarded? Or is that a special type of boarding you sought ought? I'm just wondering. I'm a cat owner, so maybe it's different, but we considered boarding one of our cats during our vacation and I'd be really pissed if I found out that she was given access to other cats.

Many dog boarding places allow the dogs to socialize. I'd rather my dogs get to play with others than spend their time cooped up in a pen.

[sportyj]

Dogs will fight,

This is not a correct assumption! Dogs will not "FIGHT" properly socialized dogs will play and wrestle and such but if a dog ever fights this is a PROBLEM. There is a HUGE difference between a fight and normal dog play behavior.

I don't expect this $310 to be someone else's responsibility

I would expect ALL incurred costs to be their responsibility, none of this would have happened had the facility been properly supervising the animals. I am even surprised the dog owner had to pay NOT the facility. The facility should not be allowing dogs to play together unless they are 100% sure they are compatible. I wonder what the "temperamant" test consists off...

PS - Thank goodness your dog is okay, that must have been VERY scary for you.

[sportyj]

After re-reading I do think it is worth taking it up with the vet and telling them you are unhappy with their services as well. If you followed the TX plan to a tee and it was getting worse then that is a problem. However I can guarentee you that they will not cover a cent of it because they will say you should have brought your dog back to them free of charge. Sorry.

[ejs]

This is not a correct assumption! Dogs will not "FIGHT" properly socialized dogs will play and wrestle and such but if a dog ever fights this is a PROBLEM. There is a HUGE difference between a fight and normal dog play behavior.



I would expect ALL incurred costs to be their responsibility, none of this would have happened had the facility been properly supervising the animals. I am even surprised the dog owner had to pay NOT the facility. The facility should not be allowing dogs to play together unless they are 100% sure they are compatible. I wonder what the "temperamant" test consists off...

PS - Thank goodness your dog is okay, that must have been VERY scary for you.

I mispoke when I said dogs will fight. I meant that they will get rough. It's common during play.

I don't think you can ever be 100% sure that two dogs will always get along, no matter what testing they've had. They're dogs. If YOU are able to 100% predict the reliability of any dog, you should figure out a way to make money doing that.

[Jenyfer9]

Yeah, it isn't the fight part that bothers me so much (although maybe it should be?), it's the part that we had to redo everything just over a week later. Like I said, I just feel like the original vet did a shoddy job. I kinda felt that that was the case when we got her back, but since it was already done (and I'll be honest and say because we didn't have to pay for it), I wasn't about to raise a stink. Perhaps I should have said something earlier... and that will be what screws me here. I also think that if we had gone back to the original vet yesterday, they might be more willing to take on some of the financial responsibility.

Is it common to allow animals to play together when they're being boarded? Or is that a special type of boarding you sought ought? I'm just wondering. I'm a cat owner, so maybe it's different, but we considered boarding one of our cats during our vacation and I'd be really pissed if I found out that she was given access to other cats.

Actually, we chose this place because of the socialization factor. She is a VERY social dog, and loves being around other dogs. When we've been gone for a quick weekend, we won't go to this place, simply because it's 2x as expensive as the other boarding place that we'll go to. But since we were going to be gone for a whole week, I didn't want to have her "locked up" the whole time (the other place does have a larger play place for the dogs, but no socialization for them). Now I'm kinda ticked that we've spent $650 over the course of the past 2 weeks for that luxury.

[fuzzy]

Some places allow socialization, some don't.

I'm really sorry your dog was injured. I guess part of me thinks that this is the risk you are going to run if you choose a boarding facility that allows interaction (and please know, I'm not trying to be mean...I'm just thinking this through) *and* that doesn't use your vet. There was a risk s/he could get hurt...and if s/he did, that s/he would be treated by someone other than your primary vet.

We use two boarding facilities. The first does not allow interaction, primarily b/c the owner also runs a non-profit that trainers service dogs and doesn't want the service dogs (who are very expensive and belong to the np, not her) to be injured nor does she want the np to be liable if the service dogs injure a boarder). We use that facility for short term kenneling. The other facility does allow interaction and we use it if we are gone for a longer period of time.

The key for me with *BOTH* facilities is that they agree to use our vet. I checked on that before choosing each location, have it in writing that they'd take her to my hospital, and made arrangements with my vet to make sure they knew who could potentially have custody of my dog...and so they know what our "limits" are (along with leaving my cc info).

Again, I don't want to sound harsh, because your baby is hurt (!!!), but I personally could never use a boarding facility that allowed interaction if they weren't able to bring my dog to my vet. So I'm sorta thinking that, if I were in your shoes, I'd call this one a learning experience, eat the bill, and find a new kennel.

[Jenyfer9]

Again, I don't want to sound harsh, because your baby is hurt (!!!), but I personally could never use a boarding facility that allowed interaction if they weren't able to bring my dog to my vet. So I'm sorta thinking that, if I were in your shoes, I'd call this one a learning experience, eat the bill, and find a new kennel.
Don't worry, you don't sound harsh. You sound like me before I talked to my dh and he got this idea of some sort of compinsation from the other vet or the boarding place in my head.

[TazLuv]

I still don't agree that you should have to eat the bill knowing what we know from your posts. What kind of form/release did you sign when you put her in this kennel?

[Jenyfer9]

What kind of form/release did you sign when you put her in this kennel?
Oh, we had to sign a ton of stuff. I don't remember all of it because it was before our first visit there which was over a year ago.

[TazLuv]

Well I still think you should pursue it. A kennel which allows socialization of the dogs should be monitoring them closely enough that if a fight does break out they can break it up before it gets to the point of $300 vet bills. A phone call to the kennel or the original vet is at least worth a try.

[Jenyfer9]

Ok, so if you think that I should pursue it, how do I go about it? I just feel like I don't know what to say.

[fuzzy]

A kennel which allows socialization of the dogs should be monitoring them closely enough that if a fight does break out they can break it up before it gets to the point of $300 vet bills.

Eh, see, I think its fuzzier than that. My dog? She was bitten by a muskrat. It happened in an instant, literally, and I got there right away. The bite severed a tendon, needed to be cleaned out and the vet took x-rays as a precaution. My bill? $423.

If it were me, Jenyfer9, I'd be pressing the kennel on their choice of vets. Why did they go to the cheapo guy who did a shoddy job? You might want to start there and see what happens.

[Chile]

****

[TazLuv]

I'm not good at confrontation either, I would just start by calling the kennel and explaining to a manager that you had to take him to another vet, there was another bill and you'd like to know why their vet didn't do some things. From there you just have to kind of see where their reaction goes, if they are a good service they should volunteer some remedy and it should proceed from there. I'm probably not much help with this part, I have a good enough relationship with the kennel we take Molly to that we'd just have a conversation about it and see where it led. Good luck!

[DiscoDiva]

I have a good friend who owns a dog day-care and occasionally boards dogs. I've asked her how she would handle this and I'll let you know what she says.

[Golightly]

I'm so sorry this happened to your baby while you were away!

I would contact the Kennel with the attitude of "keeping them in the loop" in order to avoid any defensive behavior. Sounds like they did the right thing for your dog but that the vet wasn't the best. I'd use the kennel as a go-between for you, the vet, and the other owner (who's dog bit yours.)

Call the kennel and give them the full update on how your dog ripped out the staples and that your own vet wasn't pleased with the work that was done previously, but that $300 later, your dog is going to be okay. Tell them you just wanted to let them know that your dog is going to be okay, but that it was a pretty scary situation.

Tell the Kennel that you appreciate that the owner of the other dog paid the first vet bill but that you just wanted to let the kennel manager to know about the rather poor care your dog received at the kennel's vet, to prevent future dogs who are boarded there from having problems.

Next I'd ask the kennel manager if they would like you to submit the second vet bill to them (so they have the whole story) and if they think it's appropriate for you to be completely responsible for the second bill. I'd approach it from a "wondering how this situation usually get's handled" angle instead of "I'm not paying for this!" angle.

Who knows what might happen. You might end up being totally responsible for the second bill, but then again, maybe they'll take care of it for you. Either way, they'll probably thank you for being so understanding about everything and do something to make you feel better.

Hope you pup makes a fast recovery.

[DiscoDiva]

Okay, I passed this on to my friend who owns a dog day care/boarding place, and this is what she said:

<<Being the owner of a dog daycare (DDC) myself, I can empathize with the situation you are in. It sounds like the DDC acted correctly: They attempted to contact you but also took your pet's health concerns as their first priority and brought your dog to who they considered to be a reputable veterinarian for emergent treatment.

The fact that the owners of the other dog paid for the vet bill speaks loudly to me. Not only do they feel responsible, but also feel badly and wanted to rectify the situation.

It sounds now that your unhappiness is with the veterinarian to whom your dog was originally brought. However, given the fact that I am NOT a vet, I can only give you my unlicensed opinion. I believe most dogs with stitches or staples anywhere other than their heads are put in Elizabethan collars to prevent the dog from licking or chewing them out. Staples or stitches on a face are generally NOT subject to removal by the dog. They are generally subject to removal or damage by overactivity on the part of the dog. Any dog who was injured enough to require stitches should be kenneled or crated and have their activity severely restricted. Allowing a dog with stitches or staples to roam freely (even for 2-3 minutes) is a huge no-no. This places the burden of the stitches removal straight on the owner. Any dog who was seriously injured and required veterinarian intervention should be cared for as such. This means not allowing them to roam free or run around or go up and down stairs without constant, immediate attention.

I do not think the veterinarian was at fault for this situation. I believe the fault lies squarely on the fact that the dog had to get stitches/staples in the first part and that the animal was not properly restrained at all times during recuperation at home on the second part.

If this went to court, the behavior of the owners would be brought into question, and allowing an injured animal to roam freely for ANY amount of time would weigh heavily against them. Without seeing the animal's wounds myself, I believe the veterinarian did what was required and the dog owner themselves said the wound did not look infected, so obviously any claim of infection by the owners against the vet cannot be shown. I believe this should be chaulked up to a learning experience, sad and hurtful as it may be to the dog and the owner.

One question I would raise is what has been done with the other dog -- the one who injured this person's dog. Any animal aggressive enough to bite another animal (in a situation that the owner states was not instigated by their animal) should be removed from the DDC environment. I would not allow this dog back into daycare again. I also would not allow an injured and/or healing dog into daycare until fully healed and released by their vet. An injury is subject to reinjury and an injured dog can be seen as weak and attacked by other pack members.

Just my take on the situation, but it sounds like there is a little fault all around, with the exception of the DDC owners who acted responsibly and quickly in getting the animal help, and also the vet, who addressed the situation and chance of infection in an accepted standard of care. The fact that the owners were not immediately available also weighs greatly in the favor of the DDC and vet, who acted in proper, prudent fashion, caring for the health and well-being of the injured dog. >>

I hope that helps. My friend also said that most day care/boarding contracts have a clause about not being responsible for any injuries by other dogs, so the day care probably doesn't have liability, but check the contract just in case.

[Jenyfer9]

Thanks for all the input, ladies. I think that we've decided just just suck it up and say lesson learned for next time.

[DiscoDiva]

How's she doing? Is she feeling better?

[Jenyfer9]

Well she's feeling foolish in her lampshade, I'm sure, but other than that, she's back to normal. She goes back for a follow-up appointment with our vet on Friday morning, so let's hope that we can make it to THAT appointment without another incident! Thanks for asking!

[DiscoDiva]

Good to hear she's feeling better. Take a pic of her. I love to see pics of dogs in their lampshades. It's so cute!