Considering a Second Dog

[NotDesperate]

Hi everyone,

I need all of the dog lovers' advice on this dilemma.

I posted a topic like this last year when I was considering a second dog, but that post was more about the pros and cons of getting a second dog.

Now I know that I would like a second dog, but I'm not sure if the timing is right.

My husband and I both work full-time out of the house (M-F). Next week I start student teaching and my day might increase by one hour. However, DH might start a new job where he would be home by 3:30.

I won't be able to come home for lunch anymore like I could with my current job (that I leave on Friday), so I am worried about housebreaking.

I'm just thinking if I get a puppy, I should be able to take it out every few hours to work on housebreaking, but how do people who work do this?? I cannot afford a dog walker.

I'm thinking I should wait until the summer of 08, because that will be my first summer as a teacher where I will be able to stay home. But that is sooo far from now!

One main reason we want the 2nd dog, is to keep our first dog company during the day since it is such a long day for him to be alone.

What do you think?

Just a side question- what do you do with your dog(s) during the day when you are gone? Are they confined to a crate or room or do they have the whole house to themselves?

TIA :)

[Kimberland30]

I'm going to be lurking in this thread because I'm also considering getting a second dog. Our lab mix is almost 8 and although she's an older dog, I'm sure she'd love to have company during the day...she gets along great with my neighbors/friend's dogs when we dog sit.

Anyway, our dog stays in the house while we are gone. We've never had a problem with her roaming the house when nobody is here. I'm sure she lays on the furniture when we can't see her though. :) When I had a smaller dog, I'd close off the doorway to the rest of the house and leave it in the kitchen when I was at work.

As for house training, how long will your dogs be alone? I've heard that house training a second dog is much easier since the older one "teaches" the puppy. When I had a jack russell, my then boyfriend and I both worked full time, but we had different shifts. I worked 8-5, he worked 11-7. We both let him out in the morning and before leaving for work, and right when we'd get home. We'd keep him in the kitchen with papers and his crate. On weekends we kept to the same schedule to get him used to going on our time schedule. It's been years so I can't remember how long it took to totally train him, but I don't remember it being a big hassle when working. We also got him during a holiday weekend (I'm thinking Thanksgiving) so that we could spend a few days with him before going back to work.

[sportyj]

Are you DEAD set on getting a puppy? What about rescuing a little older dog (say a year) that is already house broken? At 7 months and older they can be left for up to 8 hours without potty breaks (age in months + 1) in a crate or in the house. There are thousands of dogs that people have trained and then abandon for stupid reasons. We even have a dog at our local rescue that has OBEDIENCE TITLES!!

I think you work too much for a puppy, to train it properly and give it the amount of attention it needs.

I crated my dog every single time I left the house until she was a year old and now she is allowed free roam. She is a lab/ pit mix and have NEVER, EVER destroyed a single thing in my house or had an accident while at work. But as a pup I came home EVERY day at lunch to let her out of her crate, I think it is wrong to crate longer than 6 hours. Though YOU CAN up to 8...in emergencies IMHO and at night when sleeping.

I think it is wonderful you are thinking of getting another dog! ONE more thing to consider for a 2nd dog. OLDER DOGS do not take to puppies as well - its like older children to babies, they honestly annoy them. I would truly look at getting a very young dog but not a LIL PUPPY. You would still be able to bond and train but you would not run into the issues of housebreaking and constant visitation, etc.

PLEASE RESCUE!!! :p

[NotDesperate]

Kim, thanks for telling me your experiences. That makes sense about the older dog teaching the younger one. We are gone at work for about 8 hours a day. I know that a puppy could not hold it that long. I think it would make housebreaking harder if the dog went potty in his crate during the day. I don't want to paper train it (even tho it will be little enough) because it will confuse my older dog.

Sporty, thanks for all of your help. No I'm not dead set on a puppy. I actually have an app in with a Papillon rescue but I only heard back about one dog that I wasn't sure about to begin with. I am dead set on a small dog (10 pounds or less) and it seems to be really hard for me to find a small dog to rescue. I wish I could though. I can't believe you have one in your shelter with obedience titles!! That is just crazy.

I don't think a puppy would annoy Cosmo. He is only a year old and he is still very much a puppy himself (right now he's racing up and down the stairs with his teddy bear in his mouth!). Papillons don't mature until about 1 and a half to 2 years of age.

The puppy would be crated for about 8 hours a day. I know that is a long time, especially when you include at night! I think it is cruel too. That is why I caved for Cosmo eventually.

Maybe I will revisit the older rescue pap. I'm afraid to now though because I already told the lady I wouldn't get him! Now she'll just think I'm a flake. One thing about rescues I don't like (and I know they have to be this way) is they are like the FBI with every aspect of your current and past life to make sure you are a good home. It is a little daunting. I have to say, it is much easier to just go buy a dog (from a responsible breeder).

[Sue]

I have to say, it is much easier to just go buy a dog (from a responsible breeder).

Just wanted to say that it would be just as difficult to buy from a breeder, well a responsible breeder anyway.

Another note on small breeds, they are notoriously hard to housetrain, so you might be better off looking at a dog that is a little older that has already been housetrained.

Personally, I have 3 dogs. 2 are confined upstairs while we are at work and the third is crated. If we are just running out for a few hours the 2 are left loose, but Rory, our pit bull is always crated. She has sep. anxiety and she's a pit bull - we never leave her alone with our other dogs.

[NotDesperate]

I have gotten dogs from very responsible breeders (who produce TOP, Westminster winning dogs) and the process has never been as daunting as it has been from rescues.

But I understand why it is like that, it just intimidates/frustrates me sometimes.

My toy breed wasn't that hard to housebreak. Especially since I was breaking him of a papers training. But I do know toys are harder to housebreak (my gordon setter practically trained herself). I just don't want to make it even harder for myself. Oh and many of the rescues I have seen are not housetrained yet either so that doesn't help.

Thank you for your advice, I appreciate it.

[Sue]

If you can find a small breed being fostered, there would be a better chance of the being housetrained. And don't worry about the rescue thinking you're a flake for changing your mind about a puppy. If you tell them why - easier to train, can be left alone longer periods of time - they would more than likely be happy about your decision. Although if they didn't think you were a good candidate for a puppy, they would tell you.

[sportyj]

and the process has never been as daunting as it has been from rescues.

I am actually glad to hear this. Rescues are just making sure a dog that has already been traumatized once by being abandoned by an owner or abused, etc is not EVER going to go through that again NO MATTER WHAT!

[Kate&Joey]

I'll just tell you my experience -- take from it what you wish!

I adopted a 1.5 year old terrier mix (37 pounds). She was supposedly housebroken, but did have "accidents" for a couple of weeks. I think she was just confused/traumatized after her whole "rescue" experience. However, I think it was a million times easier to (re)train her vs. training a puppy. In the beginning, she had separation anxiety and was occasionally destructive. I didn't crate her in the beginning, but eventually confined her to my very small kitchen. Once I did that, she was never destructive again.

About three years later, DH (then FH) wanted to get another dog. We knew we wanted another rescue and a larger dog. We got a 2.5 year old shepherd mix (100 pounds). Now, supposedly he had never been an indoor dog, but he NEVER, EVER had an accident in the house or destroyed anything. I don't know if the first dog was a "calming" influence on him or "showed him the ropes" or what, but he is the easiest dog I've ever had.

We always leave them out/free-roaming when we leave them alone. Never had a problem...

Also, look around for more rescue groups that might handle small dogs exclusively. Where I got my terrier, they seemed to "specialize" in small dogs; large dogs were the exception (those were fostered out whereas the smaller dogs were kept together at the "head" rescue lady's house).

[notkk]

I realize this might come across as offensive...

But please don't get a second dog because you think that your dog is lonely when you are at work. Get a second dog because you want a second dog. Are you prepared to have a longer workday and twice as many pet-related responsibilities (likely even more than twice the work in the beginning?) -- more than being prepared, is it something that you want to do? Besides, chances are your dog sleeps 90% of the time when you are work...

Also, in regard to the fact that rescues can be harder to adopt from than a breeder -- but in addition to the point that sportyj made, there is the fact that most rescue dogs are adult dogs with developed personalities and problems. The upside is that you can get more information about the dog and the potential adoptive family to make the right match -- there is less guessing on the personality of the dog than you encounter with a puppy.

I do home visits for my rescue organization as part of our adoption process. I always tell the families that the process isn't about "right" answers (we are more than happy to do education with the family!) -- it is about gathering as much information as we can about the family and their lifestyle so that we can help them make the best match possible.

I know that you said you understand the rescue viewpoint, I just wanted to add a few more points to the discussion.

[la_bride_2004]

First, I think you are being really responsible by asking these questions!

We did get a second dog after our first dog hit a year old. We took in a show dog who was almost the same age, but was being retired from the ring for behavior problems, so I knew I was getting a challenge, but it's been worth it.

I do think dogs need someone around the first few weeks when they enter a new home to make the transition easier and for you to enforce boundaries and set up discipline, so the 2008 date sounds ideal. Also, you probably know with toys (which is what I have), their bladders even when mature have a hard time holding it after 6-7 hours. How my husband and I handle it: we work opposite hours, so they aren't left alone. If both of us can't be there, we take them to doggie day care and they have a wonderful time socializing.

I will say, I thought our second dog would be company for the first, and she's really not. They tolerate each other, but both would have been perfectly happy being only dogs.

I'd never give them the run of the house when we were gone- it's far too dangerous- they could easily break a limb (toys are fragile, especially toy fox terriers). They each have a big snuggly bed in an exercise pen, which I leave open when I am home (it's indoors in our large entryway usually) and they run in there for naps when they want. When I'm gone I fasten it. They are collapsible and you can make them smaller or bigger and I have moved them around the house.

Hope this helps!

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[NotDesperate]

La Bride, thanks for all of your advice. That is interesting about your dogs not really being much company for eachother.

I do have one of those pens, but Cosmo HATES it!! I tried to use it for him as soon as we got him but he was always a nutcase in there. He is pretty sturdy so I don't worry about him breaking a limb as much as I worry about him getting into something.

He used to be confined to a spare bedroom, which he liked to look out the window, but now getting him up there anymore is a real challenge. He HATES being left alone. He shakes all over and it is just the saddest thing to watch in the morning before work. That is why I wanted to get him a friend right away.

[maxandmolly]

On the second dog keeping company thing:
I adopted my Maggie, a (then) 30lb Beagle mix from the shelter who was supposedly housebroken with no known behavioral problems. Eight months, one destroyed carpet, 3 destroyed comforters, one destroyed feather bed and countless other destroyed objects later, I had to put her with my mom on a temporary basis due to some life crap that caused me to move to a no-dogs-allowed place. Mom at the time had 2 dogs, an elderly Rott/Chow mix who was blind, mellow as could be, and nearing his time to go, and a Golden/Chow mix who is neurotic as the day is long, but housetrained and no longer destructive. Within 2 weeks, they had a completely different dog on their hands. Bear & Rusty pottied outside, so Maggie pottied outside. Bear & Rusty didn't get upset when mommy & daddy left, so Maggie didn't get upset. Bear & Rusty didn't chew things they weren't supposed to, so Maggie didn't.......etc. She no longer chews out of anxiety, and only very occasionally has accidents. She even took over cleaning Bear's eyes, ears and paws from Rusty as Bear neared the end.

[NotDesperate]

So Maggine picked up on the chill vibe of your mom's dogs then? That is great!

[maxandmolly]

So Maggine picked up on the chill vibe of your mom's dogs then? That is great!
Oh, Rusty is FAR from chill. He's as nutty as they come. He has ISSUES. But, he does potty outside and he doesn't chew stuff, which were her 2 biggest problems. But yeah, she totally plays monkey see monkey do.

[NotDesperate]

Kate&Joey and NotKK, thank you for your replies. I overlooked them before somehow and just read them now.

Kate- I know that many rescues do not advertise small dogs because they do not want people adopting them on a whim. It is a good idea, really.

NotKK- I didn't think your reply was offensive at all. I know I should not get a dog just for my current dog. I do really want another dog. Papillons are like potato chips! You can't have just one! I just want to make sure it is the right decision for all of us, Cosmo included, right now. And I know you are right in that he sleeps most of the day anyway. And YES, puppies are SO much work!! I am prepared for it, but I know my husband is not as enthused...

[NotDesperate]

P.S. My biggest concern, how do I know if my dog actually likes being an only dog! I wish I could ask him. Well I have, he just won't answer....

[jajacobsen]

Could you foster a dog with a potential to adopt? That way, if your first dog seems to resent the second (after a reasonable adjustment period), you will have a designated "out" in your time frame. But if they get along well, you could try to adopt teh second dog. Does that make sense?

[mimieliza]

We got an older dog from the Humane Society to keep our younger, high energy dog company, and it has worked out great.

Our first Australian shepherd, Miles, was a year old. He had to be crated during the day while we were at work, or he would freak out and find something - ANYTHING - to destroy. He is very intelligent, social and loyal, but got very anxious by himself. He was also CRAZY about other dogs - if he saw another dog in the park, he would take off to go play with that dog, no matter what we did to try and stop him.

I happened across a four-year-old Aussie mix (who we named Blue) at a Humane Society adoption fair. He was the opposite of Miles - totally mellow (to the point of being sluggish), calm, relaxed, and not too bright. :) After an initial adjustment, the change in Miles has been amazing. We are able to leave the dogs in our basement during the day, and they do not damage things. Miles no longer howls and cries when we leave the house. He is calmer and more relaxed when we're home in the evenings. He loves Blue very much - if we put Blue outside without Miles, Miles freaks out and wants to be with him. Miles is also more relaxed around other dogs - since he has his own buddy to play with, he's not as excited when he sees other dogs.

There is no way I could have handled another puppy - my goal in getting a second dog was to mellow out some of the dog energy in the house, and a puppy would have increased it.

[ManteoChik]

We too are thinking about getting a second dog, but we've now decided to wait until at least after December when we move.

We got our lab at 7 weeks and she has never been in a crate. When we first got her we were in an apartment and luckily had VERY flexible student scheduels where she never had to be home alone for more than roughly 3 hours. When we were gone she got baby-gated into the master bathroom with her toys. She was taken to pee before we left and as soon as we got home. By the time she was five months she was out roaming the house alone when we were gone and has been ever since.

When she was about 6 months we moved into a house with a fenced in backyard and got a dog door. She now lets herself out whenever she needs to potty and spends the rest of her time napping on the couch. :D

She'll be two in November and we'll most likely get another after December when we've moved for good (hopefully into the house we're looking at buying).