Andrea Yates Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity

[jimmysgirl424]

Jury Finds Yates Not Guilty in Drownings
By ANGELA K. BROWN, Associated Press Writer
2 hours ago

HOUSTON - Andrea Yates was found not guilty by reason of insanity Wednesday in her second murder trial for the bathtub drownings of her young children.

Yates, 42, will now be committed to a state mental hospital, with periodic hearings before a judge to determine whether she should be released. An earlier jury had found her guilty of murder, but the verdict was overturned on appeal.

The defense never disputed that Yates drowned her five children one by one in the bathtub of their Houston-area home. But they said she suffered from severe postpartum psychosis and, in a delusional state, believed Satan was inside her and was trying to save them from hell.

Yates stared wide-eyed in court Wednesday as the verdict was read. She then bowed her head and wept quietly.

The children's father said the jury had reached the right conclusion.

"The jury looked past what happened and looked at why it happened," Rusty Yates told reporters outside the courthouse. "Prosecutors had the truth of the first day and stopped there. Yes, she was psychotic. That's the whole truth."

Rusty Yates divorced Andrea Yates after the children's June 2001 deaths and recently remarried. He said they are still "friends" and reminisce about the children.

The jury, split evenly men to women, deliberated for about 12 hours over three days before reaching its verdict. On Wednesday, the jurors listened again to the state definition of insanity and asked to see pictures of the five young children: baby Mary, 2-year-old Luke, 3-year-old Paul, 5-year-old John and 7-year-old Noah.

Prosecutors had maintained that Yates failed to meet the state's definition of insanity: that a severe mental illness prevents someone who is committing a crime from knowing that it is wrong.

The jury had not been told that if they found her insane that Yates would be committed to a mental institution for treatment. If found guilty of murder she would have faced life in prison.

"I'm very disappointed," prosecutor Kaylynn Williford said. "For five years, we've tried to seek justice for these children."

In her first trial, Yates was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to life in prison. An appeals court overturned the conviction last year because erroneous testimony about a "Law & Order" television episode that didn't exist could have influenced the jury.

Defense attorneys presented much of the same evidence as in the first trial, including half a dozen psychiatrists who testified that Yates was so psychotic that she didn't know her actions were wrong. They said that in her delusional mind, she thought killing the youngsters was right.

Some testified about her two hospitalizations after suicide attempts in 1999, not long after her fourth child was born. At the time, the family lived in a converted bus. Dr. Eileen Starbranch, a psychiatrist, again testified about how she warned Yates and her husband not to have more children because her postpartum psychosis would probably return.

Yates' stayed in a mental hospital for about two weeks in April and 10 days in May 2001. Psychiatrists testified that she was catatonic and wouldn't eat and that her postpartum condition from Mary's birth in November worsened after her father died in March.

Yates did not testify. But a few state and defense psychiatrists who evaluated Yates played some videotaped segments for jurors.

During a July 2001 jail interview, Yates told psychiatrist Lucy Puryear that her children had not been progressing normally because she was a bad mother, and that she killed them because "in their innocence, they would go to heaven."

The state's key witness was Dr. Michael Welner, a forensic psychiatrist who interviewed Yates for two days in May. He testified that Yates killed the youngsters because she felt overwhelmed and inadequate as a mother, not for altruistic reasons.

Welner said that although Yates may have been psychotic on the day of the murders, it wasn't until the next day in jail that she talked about Satan, wanting to be executed and saving her kids from hell. He said the hallucination may have been triggered by the stresses of being naked in a cell on suicide watch and realizing what she had done.

Welner said Yates knew her actions were wrong and showed it in multiple ways: waiting until her husband left for work to kill them, covering the bodies with a sheet and calling 911 soon after the crime.

Prosecutors also brought back a key witness from the first trial, Dr. Park Dietz, the forensic psychiatrist whose testimony led to her conviction being overturned. The judge barred attorneys in this trial from mentioning the earlier testimony problem.

Dietz again testified that Yates knew killing her children was wrong because she knew it was a sin.

[sea74]

The whole thing is so, so sad. I wish her husband would have gotten her some help before it was too late.

I think guilty by reason of insanity was the "right" outcome because I honestly don't think a sane woman could kill her own babies.

[jimmysgirl424]

I think guilty by reason of insanity was the "right" outcome because I honestly don't think a sane woman could kill her own babies.


This is the way I feel as well. When this case actually broke on the news, I remember being angry at her husband (Rusty) for not getting her help. If I recall, he knew she wasn't stable and didn't do anything to help her. Except get her pregnant again, which as we all know was most definitely not the right thing to do at all.

[MLA]

Such a sad story. I think this was the right verdict. I wonder, though, is she *still* insane? Is she going to be locked away in a mental institution when she's really better, or does post partum psychosis last forever?

[Rosebud]

When this case actually broke on the news, I remember being angry at her husband (Rusty) for not getting her help. If I recall, he knew she wasn't stable and didn't do anything to help her. Except get her pregnant again, which as we all know was most definitely not the right thing to do at all.

This was my first reaction as well. There were so many warning signs. Why was no one helping this family?

I guess if anything good could possibly come out of a tragedy like this it would be that there's more attention given to the seriousness of post partum depression now.

I agree with the verdict.

[December27JJB]

The whole thing is sad. I feel bad for her. I am glad she is going to get the help she needs rather than her sitting in prison. I am sorry she didn't get help before she drowned her children.

[BridalLace]

i agree that she was insane, but i do not think she should ever be released into society again.

its a horrible story and i have trouble watching coverage of it. i feel so awful for those children. its too horrible to think about.

[dionysia]

Such a sad story. I think this was the right verdict. I wonder, though, is she *still* insane? Is she going to be locked away in a mental institution when she's really better, or does post partum psychosis last forever?She has more than just postpartum psychosis.

Di

[ginadc]

It's my understanding that Yates also has schizophrenia--which doesn't ever go away.

[tgray99]

I strongly, STRONGLY feel that this was the right decision...but, I think that there should be SOMEWAY to prosecute her ex-husband. Doctors repeatedly told them not to have anymore children that her PPD could become post-partum psychosis but that freakin' horn ball continued to impregnate her, force her to homeschool her children despite doctors orders for her to take it easy and for a while he even made all them live on a bus! No, old Rusty couldn't get a vasectomy, a teeny-tiny little procedure that could've saved 5 lives in addition to Andrea's. Now she sits in a hospital alone, no children, no husband, probably sedated out of her gourd and Rusty's off with his new wife and family. He makes me ill.

I want a t-shirt that says "Prosecute Rusty" or something of the ilk. Bastard.

[Sarah]

I don't know what to think. I don't think she was in her right mind, but I also think there needs to be some form of justice, and that she should not be allowed back into society at any point. I do think that perhaps her husband should be prosecuted for something- it seems very wrong for him to allow her to get pg and to not help her when she was showing these signs... it's all just so horribly sad. I can't even think about it very long.

[MLA]

It's my understanding that Yates also has schizophrenia--which doesn't ever go away.

Oh. I didn't realize she had schizophrenia as well.

[MLA]

I strongly, STRONGLY feel that this was the right decision...but, I think that there should be SOMEWAY to prosecute her ex-husband. Doctors repeatedly told them not to have anymore children that her PPD could become post-partum psychosis but that freakin' horn ball continued to impregnate her, force her to homeschool her children despite doctors orders for her to take it easy and for a while he even made all them live on a bus! No, old Rusty couldn't get a vasectomy, a teeny-tiny little procedure that could've saved 5 lives in addition to Andrea's. Now she sits in a hospital alone, no children, no husband, probably sedated out of her gourd and Rusty's off with his new wife and family. He makes me ill.

I want a t-shirt that says "Prosecute Rusty" or something of the ilk. Bastard.

Could he be tried for negligent homicide or something like that? I think you're right. He's definitely culpable here. And I'd buy that shirt!

[tgray99]

The Houston news stations were interviewing him and he just seemed so unemotional about the whole thing. Personally, I'd like to see him castrated but that's just me.

Friends of mine at NASA (where he works) say he's been totally ostrasized from the community and has no work friends left. Apparently he's a huge jerk at work as well. I firmly believe he made her as crazy as she is. Sure, she may have been chemically imbalanced but turning her into a baby-factory who never got a break EVER just pushed her right on over the edge. I feel for that woman so much. She is in a private hell that is worse than any punishment that the state or God could dish out.

[EJH]

Such a sad, sad story. This was the right verdict though, absolutely.

ITA -- Rusty is absolutley at fault, I said that from the very beginning. I'd buy that t-shirt!

Erin

[ginadc]

Yeah, I actually have a last-minute assignment from an academic psychiatrist and schizophrenia expert I work with to help him draft an op-ed on this decision, in which he basically says that justice was finally done, and that the whole tragedy would have been preventable with proper treatment. He didn't exactly ask me to say that Rusty should be castrated with a rusty fork--probably not something that would go over well in academia--but one gets the impression that he thinks he played a huge role in Andrea's not getting the proper treatment (and the fact that they had more kids when she was clearly mentally ill and pregnancy/birth was making it worse, and doctors were telling them so).

I'd buy the T-shirt too.

[Delta]

I wonder though, would the jury have reached the same decision had this been a father (with the same mental history, etc.)?

I'm pretty shocked. This is Harris County after all, where they dish out the death penalty at the drop of a hat, including to defendants with sleeping lawyers. :rolleyes:

It makes me absolutely sick to think about those children. This happened before I become a mother, but I was much more sympathetic to her back then than I am now, now that I have a child.

[Adaya]

I don't know how I feel about this. I on the fence on this one.

[tgray99]

I wonder though, would the jury have reached the same decision had this been a father (with the same mental history, etc.)?

I'm pretty shocked. This is Harris County after all, where they dish out the death penalty at the drop of a hat, including to defendants with sleeping lawyers. :rolleyes:

It makes me absolutely sick to think about those children. This happened before I become a mother, but I was much more sympathetic to her back then than I am now, now that I have a child.
Really? Cause I am much more sympathetic now than I was before I had my daughter. Not picking a fight, I just think it's interesting how both of our opinions have changed.

I think, and don't quote me on this, the reason the state (not the county, this was a state case) didn't go for the death penalty was because of the mental issues at play. I don't think they felt she was a danger to society. I'm not sure if I agree with that and I don't think that opinion quite goes with the "insanity" judgement today.

The question of if it were a man who killed his children was more or less answered here in Houston not too long ago and they sentenced him to death. I'll have to dig around for the case but if I recall, the guy was from the Clear Lake area too. Fair? No. But, no man can ever experience post-partum depression or post-partum psychosis either. It's all so sad. I have to change the channel when they show family home video (and they LOVE to do that down here). :rolleyes:

I was looking on Cafe Press for a "Convict Rusty" t-shirt and found this...it makes me want to vomit:

http://images.cafepress.com/product/64071310v4_240x240_F.jpg

I can't believe anyone would be sick enough to make this and even worse, that someone would think it was funny and dress their baby in it. The world is going to hell in a handbasket.

[Delta]

Really? Cause I am much more sympathetic now than I was before I had my daughter. Not picking a fight, I just think it's interesting how both of our opinions have changed. I felt bad for her and was angry at her husband too. But, now she just makes me sick, even if she is technically sick, because her actions were so premeditated...and I just think about those poor children. They are the only people I feel bad for in this situation. Her husband is worthless.

And it was a state case, but the jury was a Harris County jury - not known for their leniency. I'm against the death penalty and obviously don't think that would have been the right way to go.

Fair? No. But, no man can ever experience post-partum depression or post-partum psychosis either.No, but they can experience psychosis itself, post-partum or not. It was my understanding that her problems go beyond the post-partum issues.

[tgray99]

You are so right, Delta, the whole thing is completely sickening. I so wonder what she was thinking during the days and hours leading up to the actual act and if there was something someone could've done to stop it. There had to have been warning signs, something outward that indicated that something very bad was about to happen. My heart hurts for those babies.

Lately I've been thinking a LOT about how delicate the parent-child relationship is and I wonder how her relationships were with her babies. The tie is so strong but delicate at the same time, KWIM? It scares me to think about how easily a parent can injure a child physically or mentally.

OK, I have to go find a happier thread...I'm bummed enough as it is.

PS. And you're right, Harris County...hell, Texas for that matter is very death penalty happy. And it's not always the best course of action.

[Juniper]

She doesn't make me sick at all. I feel terribly bad for her. What makes me sick is the medical proffesionals that should have intervened, the husband, and friends and family.

I think because I had PPD I glimpsed the way your mind could go. You throw schizophrenia, PPP, NO support into that and you have a disaster waiting to happen.

Do I think she should be free and allowed to have more kids? Heck no, she needs constant supervision and help.

What ticks me off though is the way mothers have babies and until recently there has been no support and little talk of PPD because it was so taboo. Her family probably saw all the signs, he doctors sure as heck did, and her husband did too.

A mentally ill person cannot, at times, control their meds and often times go off of them.

To me, this is a clear cut case of people ignoring what is right in front of them, and an illustration of the tragedies that can occur when we don't do anything, or say anything, or help.

[Juniper]

But, now she just makes me sick, even if she is technically sick, because her actions were so premeditated...and I just think about those poor children.


I think her actions were pre-meditated because in her insanity she thought she was saving her children. In alot of cases where mothers harm thier children they truly believe that they are saving them. Its mommas instinct completely warped by insanity.

[December27JJB]

Tgray99 OMG These shirts! Whats wrong with people? Mental illness isnt funny at all. Ugh!

I was thinking about this today, people seem to be focusing on how her children died. Yes, they died a horrible death but you have to wonder what their everyday lives were like with a mother who suffered from mental illness. Sadly, they probably suffered a lot because their mother was struggling with mental illness. If she hadnt drowned them (I am not saying she should've drowned them) they could very well be alive today and still living a bad life and because with the way things were going no one, not even Rusty was bound to get Andrea help she needed. Hell, Rusty could've gotten her pregnant again.

[LittleFredPunkinHead]

Why does premeditation matter if she wasn't operating with a full grasp on reality?

Imagine truly believing that if you don't take action, your children are going to Satan. What do you do?

I know probably the first response is, I would recognize that somethng's wrong with me, but you really don't know. Mental illness is an insidious thing. We want to believe we'd know that we were sick, and that we need help, and that we would get that help, but it's so much harder than you can imagine, if you've never been there.

[Rose]

It's sad all around, but I do think her husband needed to share in some blame. Mostly I just think of the kids, and what they thought in those last moments.

[Rose]

Why does premeditation matter if she wasn't operating with a full grasp on reality?

Good point, it was premeditated in a state of insanity. That's not the same as a normal person considering a crime.

[Delta]

I hope I didn't upset you Juniper. :(

I was really steamed about this whole thing last night.

I just wish there was such thing as "guilty but insane" or something like that, which ensures that people with problems like this who do things like this are not ever released into society again (much less have kids.)

I still want to know if a man with these types of problem would have recieved the same verdict. If her problems go beyond PPD (which itself is NOT insanity) then it is entirely within reason that a man with psychosis and schizophrenia could commit the same crime for the same 'reasons.'

[paiger]

If her problems go beyond PPD (which itself is NOT insanity)

Isn't there a big difference between PPD and PP-Psychosis? (Question to general public, not just to Delta, but her statement made me wonder.)

While PPD is not insanity, if it escalates to Post Partum Psychosis, wouldn't that be insanity?

[Juniper]

You didn't upset me at all C, I was just explaining my thoughts on it.

Isn't there a big difference between PPD and PP-Psychosis? (Question to general public, not just to Delta, but her statement made me wonder.)

While PPD is not insanity, if it escalates to Post Partum Psychosis, wouldn't that be insanity?

There is a big difference between PPD and PPP. From all that I have read PPP can escalate from PPD, but can also come about on its own, also it can be accompanied by another mental disorder such as schizophrenia.


Totally off topic, but I think it is important that a difference be clear so that women seek help for PPD without fear that people will think she is going to turn out like Andrea Yates. PPD can be treated very succesfully with anti-depressants, including many that are safe for breastfeeding. I was talking with my doctor the other day and she sayd there was a recent study that found many many women suffer from depression during pregnancy, and that can escalate after the baby is born.

ETA:

Oh and I meant to respond to this posted by Delta
I just wish there was such thing as "guilty but insane" or something like that, which ensures that people with problems like this who do things like this are not ever released into society again (much less have kids.)

I totally agree with this. I wish that "not guilty by reason of insanity" didn't always mean "woohoo, better than prison". I think that there should be some sort of program that keeps these people for life. However I do think that prison is not the correct place for people with severe mental health issues. They have different needs than the general populace and I think its important that they have that, but also stay incarcerated.

[LittleFredPunkinHead]

If her problems go beyond PPD (which itself is NOT insanity) then it is entirely within reason that a man with psychosis and schizophrenia could commit the same crime for the same 'reasons.'
When you say that PPD is not "insanity," do you mean the specific legal or medical definition of insanity?

[Juniper]

PPD is not insanity, its depression.

Post partum psychosis is "insanity"

[laurenc]

insanity is not a medical definition. it is strictly a legal one.

[katmg]

I am definitely happy about this verdict. I think that there was so very much wrong with that family that possibly could have been prevented. Yesterday, Rusty said something to the effect of, "Not many people knew our children so it is nice that Andrea and I are able to talk about them when we are together." WHY did not many people know those kids?? The oldest boy was what, 7-8 years old?? Why did he have that family hidden away without contact to the outside world??

I believe that this was not a death penalty case this time b/c of the outcome of the previous trial. The jury did not sentence her to death before and therefore it could not be option in this trial. However, I believe the jury was not told what the result would be if they chose guilty vs. not guilty by reason of insanity - i.e. they didn't know, for sure, that she would go to a mental facility with the not guily BRI verdict.

I also don't think that the premeditation played into the Not Guilty BRI verdict. The only question there was - "Did she know at the time that what she did was wrong?"

I also have some serious issues with the psychiatrist that the state paid for in this case. Ya know, the one who lied under oath in the original Yates trial. He also gave testimony in another similar case that contradicted the testimony he gave in this one. One of the legal pundits yesterday said that he hoped that guy would never be allowed to testify in another case. :eek:

Anyway, I'm glad that this trial is over and hopefully this woman can get some of the treatment she so obviously needs.

[jimmysgirl424]

Yates' Ex-Husband Criticizes Prosecutors

By ANGELA K. BROWN, Associated Press Writer
3 hours ago

HOUSTON - Rusty Yates lashed out Thursday at prosecutors who spent five years pursuing murder charges against his ex-wife, saying they misrepresented certain details of the day Andrea Yates drowned their five children.

Rusty Yates told The Associated Press that Andrea Yates never told him, "I finally did it" in her telephone call to him after the drownings, as a Houston police officer testified during her second trial.

"It's been printed in papers as fact, and it's absolutely not true," he said. "Much of the state's case was built on lies."

A jury on Wednesday found Andrea Yates not guilty by reason of insanity in the June 2001 bathtub drownings of her children. She was retried after an earlier murder conviction was overturned because of erroneous testimony about a nonexistent "Law & Order" television episode.

On Thursday, the 42-year-old will be committed Thursday to a state mental hospital.

Rusty Yates said that on the day his children died, Andrea had called him and asked him to come home. When he and his mother arrived and learned the news from police officers, he reminded his mother saying that Andrea had filled the bathtub for no apparent reason about a month or so earlier.

"I said, `I guess she'd been thinking about this for some time and finally did it," Yates said. He said an officer must have overhead the conversation and took it out of context.

Prosecutors also seemed to change their theory about his now ex-wife's motive, Yates said.

"In the first trial, they said Andrea did this to try to get out, whatever that means, which sounded like she wasn't happy at home ... and this time they said she wanted to run off with me into the sunset," he said. "Well, which is it?

"The fact is, they spent five years and still don't have a reason why she did it because they are unwilling to look at the fact she was psychotic. That's the only reasonable explanation for her behavior."

Prosecutors Kaylynn Williford and Joe Owmby did not immediately return calls seeking comment Thursday.

Yates, an engineer at NASA's Johnson Space Center, said he plans to visit his ex-wife regularly, but his role in her life will diminish as he moves on with his own. He remarried in March and has now has two stepsons.

"I don't forget my children, and I don't forget Andrea, but I don't dwell on it either. I try to remember my children fondly," he said. "I'm building new life ... and have a new family and am more focused on them."

For his ex-wife to ever be released from the mental hospital will require a complicated evaluation process. Experts say it can take decades before psychiatrists decide a patient is healthy enough to leave, and even then a judge can reject those findings.

Yates said he was nervous on Wednesday as he waited for the verdict. The family, which has always supported Andrea, was devastated when she was convicted at the first trial 2002.

Yates had testified for the defense in that first trial, and he said Thursday he didn't know why he wasn't asked to testify again.

"In some respects," he said, "I know Andrea better than anybody."

The defense attorneys never disputed that Andrea drowned the children, but they she suffered from severe postpartum psychosis and, in a delusional state, believed Satan was inside her.

She believed she was trying to save the children from hell by drowning 6-month-old Mary, 2-year-old Luke, 3-year-old Paul, 5-year-old John and 7-year-old Noah, they told the jury.

"It's this simple: This lady never did anything, anything wrong in her whole life," defense attorney Wendell Odom said. "She's mentally ill. She wakes up one morning. She drowns her five kids. Come on _ we all know she's insane, and it's a shame that it took us this long to finally get the right verdict."

Prosecutors had maintained that although Andrea Yates was mentally ill, she failed to meet the state's definition of insanity: being so severely mentally ill that she did not know her actions were wrong.

The foreman of the jury said Thursday that he and the others used both their heads and their hearts in finding her not guilty by reason of insanity. He said they had "some emotional difficulty" reaching its unanimous verdict would have had an easier time if they could have found her "guilty but insane."

Wednesday morning, before announcing the verdict, they asked to see a picture of the five young children, then sat in silence for 10 minutes _ 2 minutes for each child _ remembering the victims, foreman Todd Frank, a 33-year-old marketing manager with his own young son, told "Good Morning America" on Thursday.

"We understand that she knew it was legally wrong," he said. "But in her delusional mind, in her severely mentally ill mind, we believe that she thought what she did was right."

[jesvet]

Rusty Yates shouldn't be pointing fingers at anyone except himself. Where was this sympathy for his wife 5 years ago?

[katmg]

Did anyone watch the Primetime special about the case last night? It just broke my heart listening to the tapes of Andrea's sessions.

[jimmysgirl424]

Did anyone watch the Primetime special about the case last night? It just broke my heart listening to the tapes of Andrea's sessions.


Crap. I didn't even know there was a special! I would have either watched it or DVR'd it if I had. Can you recap it?

[katmg]

It wasn't on the whole time, but they did spend about a 1/2 hour on her. They showed videotapes from her psychiatrist sessions with one of the prosecutions doctors. It wasn't from right after the murders but from about 4 years later, etc. It was just really hard hearing her describe how she called each child into the bathroom separately, etc. They asked her what she would want to say to Paul, etc. (Went through each child individually) and on each one she said, "I miss you." Like I said, really hard to watch.

They also showed a brief videotape of a preacher that Rusty had brought home videos of for them to watch. It was super scary - the guy dressed up in a devil's mask and told mothers that it was their responsibility to make sure that their babies go to heaven. :eek: It was only on the screen for a few seconds and it scared the crap out of me!

There weren't any conclusions drawn by the program - it just reiterated much of what has already been said on the news.

[BTB]

insanity is not a medical definition. it is strictly a legal one.

True, but psychosis IS medically defined, and I think Delta was trying to draw a sharp distinction - a very important one, IMO - between PPD and PPP, which too often get lumped together in mass media, soundbites, and conversations.

[tgray99]

Did anyone watch the Primetime special about the case last night? It just broke my heart listening to the tapes of Andrea's sessions.
I couldn't. Stuff like that sticks with me for days. Anyone see the Dr. Phil where the woman beat her children? I still have nightmares about that and it was months ago. :(

[cosmic]

Rusty Yates shouldn't be pointing fingers at anyone except himself. Where was this sympathy for his wife 5 years ago?

I agree. Now he's married to another woman who I'm sure he wants to make another litter of kids with.