Entertaining a Picky Eater

[paiger]

We are having friends come this weekend, and I'm going to fix brunch on Sunday. My friend is a very picky eater!

Does anyone have a good brunchy recipe that would fill our husbands, but would also be good for a picky eater?

I had though I would fix a frittata or something similar, so if you have a frittata recipe that is yummy but doesn't include things like mushrooms, egg plant, green peppers that would be great.

[gayle]

I'd find out what she will actually eat before I made a decision as to what to make.

Picky eaters drive me insane as they force everyone into eating exactly what they do. I often will make whatever main thing I actually want to make my guests, then just make the picky one something seperate and uber simple. Or, I take them out to a restaurant where everyone can order what they want.

Sorry for the mini rant, it's just a pet peeve.

Find out what she likes, then I can be of more help with some actual suggestions.

[Hello Kitty]

Yeah, I agree with gayle - it's irritating, especially for someone who really loves to cook. Someone I know thinks anything with any sort of seasoning/flavoring is 'spicy' :rolleyes:. Okay - no salt, no pepper, no garlic - thanks, it makes me look like I cook wretched, bland food.

I think an egg dish would be fine. If it's only a few people you could do an omlette bar where you have various pre-cooked toppings, which people select, and then you make the omlette?

[PG-rated]

I'm married to a picky eater, and DH does just fine when being entertained by friends - he's a master at picking out ingredients he doesn't like. So I don't have much sympathy for people who make others cook according to their tastes.

Anyway, I make a frittata-like dish that only has potato, onion, and tomato (and I omit the onion if I'm making it for DH). Would that work?

[tlew12778]

What about a belgian waffle bar? Too breakfast-y?

Quiche works too. You can pick your vegetable once you know what she doesn't eat.

Pasta salad?

The only picky eaters I have sympathy for are those allergic to certain ingredients.

[Asha]

just stick to the basics

-scrambled eggs (add no veggies, spices except salt and pepper)
-toast with assorted jellies and butter
-ham/bacon
-fruit salad
-donuts
-coffee cake
-hash browns
-pancakes

[paiger]

Anyway, I make a frittata-like dish that only has potato, onion, and tomato (and I omit the onion if I'm making it for DH). Would that work?
Yes, I would like that recipe.

The funny thing is that she wouldn't want me to ask her, so I'm going by memory. I will email her to ask if she likes tomatos, but I know she likes salsa so I would think she does. I know for sure about the green peppers, b/c I made that mistake last time.

Gayle ~ Going out is why I'm doing the brunch instead of dinner the night before. I just decided it would be easier to either go out for dinner or get pizza from a good local place we know.

I thought about doing scrambled eggs. How do you make a large batch of scrambled eggs ie. enough for 4 people two of whom are guys that eat lots?
I could do the same idea as the omelette bar where everyone gets to pick what they put on top of the scambled eggs. I'd hate to have to fix one omelette at a time, then the first ones would get cold.

[Asha]

How do you make a large batch of scrambled eggs ie. enough for 4 people two of whom are guys that eat lots?

i just use a lot more eggs and i have two skillets going at the same time.

[paiger]

i just use a lot more eggs and i have two skillets going at the same time.

Well, I only have one saute pan/skillet. But, I have a really big electric double griddle. Can you put it on that, or is it too runny?

Also, what else do you put in scrambled eggs other than the eggs? Don't you put in milk? Is there a ratio that you should keep up?

[Asha]

i don't really have a specific recipe i use. i just add a bit of milk to the eggs, and about half a tsp of salt and a couple dashes of pepper. i have never used a griddle before, but i do think scrambled eggs wouldn't work. since scrambled eggs are quick, you can just stick the finished eggs in the oven on warm in an oven safe bowl while you whip up the second batch of scrambled eggs.

[paiger]

Thanks!

[Asha]

also, if you do decide to do scrambled eggs, wait until they arrive to make them. they don't reheat well, and are yucky when cold.

[Missy2U]

I'm married to a picky eater, and DH does just fine when being entertained by friends - he's a master at picking out ingredients he doesn't like. So I don't have much sympathy for people who make others cook according to their tastes.

Both my son and I could be considered "picky", and this is what we do. We would NEVER think to have someone change how they cook to suit us - there's nothing at all wrong with just taking out what you don't like (and doing it politely and discreetly - the discreet part was a tough one to teach DS when he was younger.:) )

As for the brunch, here are a couple of casseroles (the French Toast one is from Karen - with both of them, you'll have a sweet and a savory). You can add some fruit salad, some croissants and jams, juice and coffee, and you should be good to go. The husbands have something hearty, the picky one can have fruit and croissants or either of the casseroles, and everyone gets something. :)

Breakfast Sausage Casserole
8 to 10 servings.

* 1 (12 ounce) package fresh breakfast sausage, cooked, drained and crumbled
* 4 cups cubed day-old bread
* 2 cups shredded sharp Cheddar cheese
* 2 (12 fluid ounce) cans Evaporated Milk
* 10 large eggs, lightly beaten
* 1 teaspoon dry mustard
* 1/4 teaspoon onion powder
* ground black pepper to taste

DIRECTIONS:

1. GREASE 13 x 9-inch baking dish. Place bread in prepared baking dish. Sprinkle with cheese. Combine evaporated milk, eggs, dry mustard, onion powder and pepper in medium bowl. Pour evenly over bread and cheese. Sprinkle with sausage. Cover; refrigerate overnight.
2. PREHEAT oven to 325 degrees F.
3. BAKE for 55 to 60 minutes or until cheese is golden brown. Cover with foil if top browns too quickly.

French Toast Casserole
2 loaves baguette bread (the long, skinny loaf)
8 large eggs
2 cups half-and-half
1 cup milk
2 tablespoons granulated sugar
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
1/4 teaspoon ground cinnamon
1/4 teaspoon ground nutmeg

Slice French bread into 1-inch slices, discarding the heels. Arrange slices in a generously buttered 9 by 13-inch flat baking dish in 3 rows, overlapping the slices (you may have extra slices that won't fit, depending on how large your baguettes are). In a large bowl, combine the eggs, half-and-half, milk, sugar, vanilla, cinnamon, nutmeg and salt and whisk until blended but not too bubbly. Pour mixture over the bread slices, making sure all are covered evenly with the milk-egg mixture. Cover with foil and refrigerate overnight.

The next day, preheat oven to 350 degrees F. Top with brown sugar/pecan topping (if desired) and bake for 45 minutes, until puffy and golden.

Topping
2 sticks butter
1 cup packed light brown sugar
1 cup chopped pecans
1/2 teaspoon ground cinnamon
1/2 teaspoon ground nutmeg

Combine all ingredients in a medium bowl and blend well.

[paiger]

The French Toast Casserole sounds really good, and I was hoping for something that I could make the night before. I think I'll try that. I could just do some sausage and fruit with it. Thanks!

[SunnyAB]

I can also be considered a 'picky eater' but its not always just because, some people just can't eat certain things (but I would never make a big deal out of it, or expect special treatment or a different meal or anything like that!). So if someone is doing their best to be discreet - please DONT take it as an insult to your cooking - its not that at all.

(Gayle - I promise not to wrinkle up my nose as I pick out the onions, if you promise not to roll your eyes when you see me doing so.) ;)

There are some great options here, my mouth is watering! :D PG-rated - would you mind posting your recipe too?

[wine_o_girlie]

The French Toast Casserole sounds really good, and I was hoping for something that I could make the night before. I think I'll try that. I could just do some sausage and fruit with it. Thanks!

Not sure if you mind or not, but damn that casserole is fattening! :eek: I make my french toast casserole with fat free half and half or skim milk and a 50/50 mixture of Eggs Beaters and real eggs. It really helps to cut the fat down and doesn't impact the dish at all. I would also cut down to 1 stick of butter for the topping instead of 2. HTH :)

[pocket]

Picky eaters drive me insane as they force everyone into eating exactly what they do. I often will make whatever main thing I actually want to make my guests, then just make the picky one something seperate and uber simple. Or, I take them out to a restaurant where everyone can order what they want.

Sorry for the mini rant, it's just a pet peeve.

I'm with you, Gayle! It's my pet peeve too.

How about bagels? You can't go wrong with bagels.

[Tanya]

I'm with you, Gayle! It's my pet peeve too.

How about bagels? You can't go wrong with bagels.
Me too! I actually posted that on the pet peeve thread, but I don't think it went over well:p. The worst is when the person will be talked into trying something, and will declare, very loudly, about this item that everyone else in the room is eating, "THAT'S NASTY!" But I digress (and I know most people wouldn't do that)...just don't serve lox with the bagels. I think the french toast casserole would be fine for even the pickiest eater, unless they have fatty food issues.

[suzubeane]

he's a master at picking out ingredients he doesn't like. Picking out? As in "picking bits of food out and leaving them on the side of his plate?"

Paige, I second the bagels. We put them out with lots of "sides" - different toppings, sliced tomatoes, sliced up hard cheese. If you put out a butter dish, then your picky friend can have bread and butter for breakfast. I don't know any picky eater who won't eat that.

If you decide on a simple frittata, that would go with a bagel spread nicely.

[pocket]

I am not a picky eater myself - i'll try almost anything. but i did grow up kosher (-style). when we were growing up we were always taught that it was up to us to make the accomodations. obviously it's too much to expect a non-jew or even most jews to know how kosher you keep or what that even means. I just don't think it's polite to give someone a long list of the things you do not eat when you go over to their house for dinner.

[paiger]

I do love bagels!

I got the ingredients for the French Toast Casserole yesterday. We don't have fatty food issues!! It should be fine. I think most of my friend's pickiness is mostly about vegetables.

[mommydearest]

I'd ask the person. I am a picky eater, and I HATE eggs. I would starve first, before eating them. I would rather have pancakes, french toast, waffles, or just make your own sandwiches and picnic food (nothing with mayo for me) and fruit salad.

Or, you could phrase it "What is your favorite brunch food?" and just ask.

[PG-rated]

Picking out? As in "picking bits of food out and leaving them on the side of his plate?"
Well, yeah. Honestly, he's so good at it that you'd never notice him doing it, but then his omelet is gone and only the onion pieces (or whatever) are left. :)

Anyway, the frittata recipe is really simple: Peel and cut up one or two potatoes (depending on the size of your skillet), and about 1/2 an onion. Saute the potato in about 2 or 3 tbsp of vegetable oil until lightly brown, and add the onion about halfway through. Lightly beat together about 8 eggs (or however many your frying pan can hold), add salt (or garlic salt) and pepper to taste, plus one chopped tomato (you can add a little milk if you want). Add to potato mixture and reduce heat to low. Cook until eggs are almost cooked through, then finish in the oven to cook the top.

[ejs]

I'm a picky eater and I would never expect people to make something special for me or do anything special to accommodate me. Some of you have really harsh feelings toward picky eaters, but you are the ones who are choosing to change your menu for them.

Can we help that we just don't like the taste of some things or that some things irritate our stomach?

To the OP: please don't feel like you have to do anything special for your picky friend. Most picky eaters have learned to get through meals.

[suzubeane]

Honestly, he's so good at it that you'd never notice him doing it, but then his omelet is gone and only the onion pieces (or whatever) are left. :)Perhaps, but it's the onion pieces (or whatever) leftover that I'd notice. Especially if I was the one who cooked.

I'm sorry, but I would be very taken aback to see an adult do this in my home after I'd put effort into planning and preparing a meal. I would MUCH rather people tell me up front if they have dietary restrictions (for whatever reason) than let me work on a meal that they'll pick parts out of, not to mention the food waste. I recommend that people with food allergies or aversions do their hosts a favor and say something up font.

[PG-rated]

There would be no way for him to make a list of everything he won't eat without looking crazy or horribly rude. And you're clearly in the minority here, since many people have said that they'd be put off by a dinner guest who expected them to accommodate a long list of "don'ts" when no allergies are involved. If it means that much to you to have everything you cook be eaten, I think the burden's on you to explain that to your guests ahead of time, not the other way around.

[maplekitty]

I would do a diner style eggs and bacon brekkie. Maybe do bacon and sausage for variety. Ask people how they'd like their eggs done (scrambled, over-easy, soft boiled) since eggs only take a few minutes to cook it's easy to do them individually. Make some homemade hashbrowns, and offer taost and maybe croissants, or scones. Maybe even a fruit salad or just some fresh local berries. That's lot of food for the hubbies, but variety for the picky eater!

[suzubeane]

And you're clearly in the minority here, since many people have said that they'd be put off by a dinner guest who expected them to accommodate a long list of "don'ts" when no allergies are involved. Clearly a minority? No one has commented on "guests picking through food."

If it means that much to you to have everything you cook be eaten, I think the burden's on you to explain that to your guests ahead of time, not the other way around.Actually, I do tend to ask people who have never been my guests before if they have any dietary restrictions. But it's not important to me that everything I cook be eaten - just that it not be rifled through and left to the side like trash. I've seen people do that at diners and sandwich shops, but the only people who have done that in my home are children.

I take it it's never occurred to you or your DH that people who see him do this might be consider it rude, but some people do. (How many people invite you back after they've seen him do it?) I'm sure you will continue to think of my opinion as that of "the minority, " but without religious reasons, allergies, or personal policy like vegetarianism, if he doesn't want to give the host some guidance ahead of time, the appropriate thing for him to do is suck it up and eat.

BTW, I have many dietary restrictions. That's why when I go to someone's house for a meal I offer to bring something.

/hijack

[artist]

I don't know if I'd be considered "picky" (though I was as a kid), but what about vegetarians, people allergic to certain things, people needing food to be kosher, diebetics, people on various fad diets who will not anything with carbs, etc.? I guess I've just sort of gotten used to the fact that so many people have so many different dietary needs. Though I do certainly agree that it would be a real pain to have to accomodate someone simply based on "pickiness".

ETA:
I had a friend who thought I was completely insane for suggesting putting a little olive oil on pasta. Is that really so strange or is just that I'm married to someone who is part Italian? (And really, food just MUST have some fresh garlic to be good!)

[PG-rated]

Both my son and I could be considered "picky", and this is what we do. We would NEVER think to have someone change how they cook to suit us - there's nothing at all wrong with just taking out what you don't like (and doing it politely and discreetly - the discreet part was a tough one to teach DS when he was younger.:) )
As noted above, my DH isn't the only one who does it. And I don't see how leaving certain things on your plate is inappropriate or a comment on the chef's cooking - if you're eating the rest of the dish, clearly you enjoy the preparation.

(How many people invite you back after they've seen him do it?)
Our social calendar is just fine, but thanks for your concern. :) As I've said, people rarely notice. Very few of our friends know what a picky eater he is, and that includes the people who've cooked for him.

[ejs]

I'm sure you will continue to think of my opinion as that of "the minority, " but without religious reasons, allergies, or personal policy like vegetarianism, if he doesn't want to give the host some guidance ahead of time, the appropriate thing for him to do is suck it up and eat.

I'm curious about this. The smell, texture, and taste of certains food make me queasy. Some actually really upset my stomach and make me ill. None of these fall under religious reasons, allergies, or personal policy. It's all personal preference.

So are you saying that I should just suck it up and eat something even though I know it will make me physically uncomfortable? Sorry, but I'm not doing that. I look at me being a physically ill as a bit more important than you being upset because I picked an ingredient out.

This is why it's safer to go with friends to restaurants - everyone can order whatever they want and get it prepared however they want.

[suzubeane]

As noted above, my DH isn't the only one who does it. Never implied he was. I said some people find it rude. :)

As I've said, people rarely notice. Do you think you're in a position to know if people notice and are put off by it? Seriously. :).

So are you saying that I should just suck it up and eat something even though I know it will make me physically uncomfortable? No, I'm suggesting you tell your host ahead of time that you have some dietary restrictions (no need to explain further) and ask if they'd like you to bring something. Or go to a restaurant as you suggested. Or - worst case scenario - decline one or two things on the menu, but don't allow something to be put on your plate and then paw through it.

eta: I should add that I'm talking about sit-down meals; not buffets. Picking trough at a buffet is a waste of food, but otherwise, I don't think the same standards apply as a sit-down meal.

[ejs]

No, I'm suggesting you tell your host ahead of time that you have some dietary restrictions (no need to explain further) and ask if they'd like you to bring something. Or go to a restaurant as you suggested. Or - worst case scenario - decline one or two things on the menu, but don't allow something to be put on your plate and then paw through it.

But I would never want someone to cook something special for me. I was taught that it's rude to ask what the host is serving. And if someone is hosting me, I'm not going to say, "By the way, here's a list of things I don't like to eat." Nor am I going to take my own entree.

So if you're serving me green salad, garlic bread, and lasagna, you would be offended and think I was rude if I didn't eat the onion in the lasagna? That's really too bad. I would think I was being more rude spending lots of time in the bathroom after the meal.

I think it's great, though, that you are able to eat every single thing served to you by people, no matter how much it might repulse you. You are a better person than I am.

[PG-rated]

Clearly a minority? No one has commented on "guests picking through food."
This is why I pulled Missy's quote. And when people who've had us over for dinner don't know that DH is picky, then I'm guessing that any "selective editing" he did while eating with them didn't register. :)

And really, how far would you take this? Would you expect that people would eat every bite of, say, a salad? Because I know more people who pick things out of a salad than don't.

[suzubeane]

I think it's great, though, that you are able to eat every single thing served to you by people, no matter how much it might repulse you. You are a better person than I am.Please see my above comments about my own dietary restrictions.

Listen, guys - you can get as indignant about this as you want to. Bottom line: many people who entertain would be put off to see someone at the dinner table separating out the food they consider trash before the the plates are being cleared.

Further, you may think you're being discreet, but if you leave little piles of that which is offensive to you on the side of your plate, you are not. You've left evidence that your host has likely noticed, and is unlikely to comment on. (Apparently leaving you to believe this practice as A-OK with everyone but me.)

And lastly, while it may be considered poor manners to ask a host what he or she is serving, it is NOT poor manners to ask if you can bring something because, by the way, you have dietary restrictions, thus giving the host a choice to serve something you can actually eat. Why would you want to put your host in the position to feel sheepish and think "Oh if I had only known you didn't eat garbanzo beans ... I could have made something else!"

[bookworm]

Eh, I try to take a couple of small bites of things I hate, then claim fullness. But once I went to dinner party and the hostess served a fishy fish. I didn't talk to her ahead of time (so I brought wine), she was clearly thrilled to share a recipe she liked with the other 6 guests, and while I felt bad about the waste, I really couldn't eat the fish. But I praised the side dishes to high heaven. She invited me back. Of course I felt bad. Sometimes that's the option.

[pocket]

i was brought up to believe that a home cooked meal is a gift of hospitality. so for me it's really rude not to eat the food in front of you at someone else's house. and picking through it is pretty gross. i spend a lot of time creating a dinner menu and wine pairings when i have guests over but truthfully i usually don't do food-related activites with someone if i know they are a picky eater. there's plenty of other things that we could both enjoy.

it's like going camping with someone who hates camping. or going to the symphony with someone who doesn't like classical music.

[pocket]

Eh, I try to take a couple of small bites of things I hate, then claim fullness. But once I went to dinner party and the hostess served a fishy fish. I didn't talk to her ahead of time (so I brought wine), she was clearly thrilled to share a recipe she liked with the other 6 guests, and while I felt bad about the waste, I really couldn't eat the fish. But I praised the side dishes to high heaven. She invited me back. Of course I felt bad. Sometimes that's the option.

See now this is a polite way to handle it if you are a picky eater.

[KK812]

Ahhh, CC, where what to serve for sunday brunch can become drama. :p


I personally am a picky eater, and have no qualms about admitting it. I also remember that last time I entertained-I think 8 people-about half left some portion of their salad, be it the tomatoes or the red peppers, in the bowl. Did I notice? Yes, while I was clearing the table. Did I care? Heck no. I was glad that they didn't feel like they needed to eat something just because I put it out.

I think people who worry about things like this should think of something more significant to be offended by. jmo

[colz85]

last time I entertained-I think 8 people-about half left some portion of their salad, be it the tomatoes or the red peppers, in the bowl. Did I notice? Yes, while I was clearing the table. Did I care? Heck no.


That pretty much describes how I feel about it. I mean, I may think "oh, it's too bad I served something they didn't care for", but really, no biggie, as long as they otherwise seemed to get enough to eat.

Seriously? I'd rather someone pick things out of a dish in an unobtrusive manner than make a big scene about what they will and will not eat ahead of time. (allergies excepted) I try to be aware enough to have a nice variety of things so that no one will leave hungry.

And if I go someplace where something I don't care for is being served, I eat what I do like, and don't make a mention of what I don't care for. (about the only thing I think that I would pick out of food is mushrooms...and it's not so much picking out as eating around)

To the OP--I think it's wonderful that you want your menu to be "inclusive". :)

[pocket]

This is totally cultural though. Suzu and I, at least, have very similar cultural backgrounds so it makes sense that we would have the same understanding of the appropriateness of picky eating. in my house it was just. not. done. in some places i've been it would be the absolute worst thing you could do to turn down food that was served to you or express dissatisfaction.

[SunnyAB]

This has really got me intrigued! Sorry to the OP to butt in again, but I have never experienced anyone being so offended if there was something left on my plate that they would never invite me back. If I got an invitation and said.. oh by the way.. keep out the onions and green peppers for me willya? Or - if I ate only what I brought, (as I always ask if I can bring anything) I think they would be much more offended. But the differences in approaches could be the cultural thing?? Everyone can not like every single thing you make. We were taught that we had to at least TRY a new dish, but we were never forced to eat, just for the sake of eating. I dont want to nitpick this to death, and I DONT want to pick on anyone, but pocket and suzebean - do all your guests eat their plate clean?? For myself at least, its not like I DIG out an offending item, or spit it out if I happen to miss it and find it in my mouth. please. As someone mentioned its more like eating around, and it can be done discreetly. I can agree to disagree though :) but I think I would take the approach to do my best to eat what I can, and help clear the table so the host/hostess doesnt see whats left on my plate. ;)

[KarenS]

Clearly a minority? No one has commented on "guests picking through food."I'll comment. I'd much rather a guest discreetly picked out what he or she didn't like and just set it to the side of hte plate than called me with a list of what he or she will or won't eat and expect everyone else to accomodate their likes and dislikes. I think it's far more rude to force others to eat the way you do, than to just quietly and w/out any fuss eat around what you don't like.

And BTW, Miss Manners and Emily Post agree! :)

Karen

[suzubeane]

I think people who worry about things like this should think of something more significant to be offended by. jmoWhat? You mean like someone suggesting that they're petty and trifling?

I can't speak to the degree of offense by the hosts; obviously that will vary widely. (I framed my own reaction as "taken aback" to see an adult pick through his food.) My point is simply that people who think they are being discreet about picking through their food ... probably aren't. And since there are ways of avoiding having your host feel sheepish for serving the "wrong" thing, why not choose one of those rather than rummage through the food on your plate for something you find edible?

Not surprisingly, I agree with pocket in that some of this is cultural. Come to think of it, when I was married to an Italian (A native, southern rural one) I learned their social norms around offering and accepting food were even MORE strict than the Eastern European Jewish ones I was raised with.

eta:

And BTW, Miss Manners and Emily Post agree! :)*gasp* Miss Manners and Emily Post don't allow for cultural difference? ;).

FWIW, I'm not suggesting that guests "force" others to eat the way they do; I think declining one or two items on the menu is far better than accepting something on your plate, and then inspecting it for ingredients deemed repulsive.

[Asha]

I think declining one or two items on the menu is far better than accepting something on your plate, and then inspecting it for ingredients deemed repulsive.

in my family, picking out ingrediants would be considered rude, too. though, my family doesn't serve an already complete plate. you serve yourself whatever dish you want to eat and avoid or take very little of the dishes that aren't to your tastes.

[KarenS]

My point is simply that people who think they are being discreet about picking through their food ... probably aren't. And since there are ways of avoiding having your host feel sheepish for serving the "wrong" thing, why not choose one of those rather than rummage through the food on your plate for something you find edible?I think you're exaggerating for effect. No one here is talking about sitting at the table and ostentatiously dissecting your food. I suspect that more people than you realize have, in your presence, discreetly pushed something aside and not eaten it. Whether it's using your fork to gently separate obvious chunks of onion or bell pepper, or just eating around a center filling, or whatever.

And when the thing that you can't eat is in or over or around the main course, it would be more offensive to the host (at least to me as the host) for you to ostentatiously avoid the main item in favor of loading up on salad and potatoes au gratin. Or whatever.

Seriously, suzu your scenario of "rumminging" through your food is laughable and ridiculous. It's such an exaggerated version of what others are talking about that it's not even a valid argument.

Karen

[fuzzy]

I'd much rather a guest discreetly picked out what he or she didn't like and just set it to the side of hte plate than called me with a list of what he or she will or won't eat and expect everyone else to accomodate their likes and dislikes.

Agreed. And, really, I think it can be a two way street. Look, not everyone is going to have the same tastes -- that's obvious. So as a hostess, I think it's best if you serve a variety of dishes that could *reasonably* accomodate a number of common dislikes/restrictions. Again, reasonably.

As an example, I don't care for seafood. My MIL, time and time again, will invite us to dinner parties and will serve steamed clams as an appetizer and crab for the main course, with only a salad as a side. I don't expect her to make a separate dinner for me, but I think, if I were in her shoes -- given the number of people who have seafood/shell fish allergies, it would be reasonable to expect at least one heavier side dish so guests who don't like or can not eat shellfish have something to nibble on.

[suzubeane]

Seriously, suzu your scenario of "rumminging" through your food is laughable and ridiculous. It's such an exaggerated version of what others are talking about that it's not even a valid argument. What's laughable and ridiculous is that you would use words like "laughable and ridiculous" in this conversation at all. Take it down a notch, Karen.

Do people notice the filtering out of ingredients on someone else's plate? I think most people are able to identify piles of one, two, or three distinct kinds of food when a plate is otherwise empty. If guests have simply "eaten around" ingredients in dishes they have accepted or helped themselves to, it might look like they took more than they could eat, which many hosts register as wasteful rather than being due to an aversion. Take your pick.

I'm sorry you think my argument is not valid, Karen. I think the point about "cultural differences" is a good one, and that discussions like this can help to shed light on a subject in ways real life conversations limited to one's family or circle of friends never would.

For example, as someone with many dietary restrictions herself, I never knew that any adult found it acceptable pick though food offered at a sit-down meal, or that the ability to do so "discreetly" would be considered a boon. Likewise, perhaps those who find it acceptable to pick now understand that some of their hosts might indeed be noticing, and could end up feeling bad about it.

[isign]

When we go to the ILs, MIL serves lots of things that I really don't like, and didn't grow up eating. I don't say much, I eat what I like, and then send DH out for something else later :D People have tons of different likes and dislikes. I'm not a huge veggie eater, but I don't expect people to cook to satisfy my likes/dislikes.

[PG-rated]

What's laughable and ridiculous is that you would use words like "laughable and ridiculous" in this conversation at all. Take it down a notch, Karen.
Oh, please. You called my husband rude and childish, and asked if we had any friends left who would still cook for us. She's not the only one going overboard.

I can definitely understand how this could be a cultural issue, but I still can't fathom why it would be less offensive to refuse an entire dish (especially the main course) than to simply not eat part of it. I would think that refusing a dish would be much more likely to suggest dissatisfaction with the host's cooking.

And I agree that it's a different situation when it's a gourmet dinner, where food and wine pairings and new ingredients are the whole point of the meal. But when the point is to have a gathering of friends and family, why would you care that someone ate your chicken but not the mushroom sauce? Does that keep you from enjoying their company?

[KarenS]

Oh, please. You called my husband rude and childish, and asked if we had any friends left who would still cook for us. She's not the only one going overboard.Exactly.

Suzu you keep describing this action as "rummaging" and "piles of food". Your comments are over the top. You're acting like we're talking about sitting down to your plate and ostentatiously dissecting your food and making *piles*, which is far from the truth.

Basically you're totally exaggerating what any of us is decribing to mkae a point, and in so doing calling people rude and childish - for doing something that obviously has been done so discreetly in front of you that you've never actually noticed it. So instead you make it into something it's not.

Karen

[suzubeane]

Really, you two, name-calling is not my style. I said that picking through food is considered rude by some people, and that I would not expect to see an adult do it. PG, you know your husband and I don't. If you fear that "rude and childish" describes him, please don't pin that on me.

And the bold misquote about repeat invitations notwithstanding (post #28) I think pocket summed up my feelings better, and certainly more gently:

... i usually don't do food-related activites with someone if i know they are a picky eater. there's plenty of other things that we could both enjoy.

Declining food is not really the issue - it's picking out* of ingredients once the food is on your plate. Making piles, eating around, call it whatever you like. Some hosts will be put off or even hurt by this.

Now go do whatever you like with that revelation; I suspect that will be to continue to protest too much and ignore it. For my part, I've actually learned a few things here.



*karen, I assume "picking out" meets with your approval since it was PG's term to begin with?

[colz85]

But when the point is to have a gathering of friends and family, why would you care that someone ate your chicken but not the mushroom sauce? Does that keep you from enjoying their company?


Exactly. In the preface of one of Ina Garten's Berefoot Contessa cookbooks, she makes mention of "picky eaters"...and then she points out "these are friends and family, people you supposedly love and enjoy spending time with"....by way of noting that each side bears some responsibility for behaving politely.

[SunnyAB]

Well, my culture is one that nearly every special occastion has 17 dishes heaped high - and you are expected to have three helpings of every dish and not leave until there is no more food. :) (exaggerating of course - a bit :D ) But even though thats 'expected' no one is analysised by what they eat and don't eat. And really, as a hostess, I am more concerned with the comfort and enjoyment of my guests, not my culinary pride being pricked by seeing tidbits left on a plate, and that is the general concensus in our 'cirlce' - and that includes many different cultures too. It seems the difference must be regional as well. I'm not trying to convince anyone to change their 'ways' I guess Im just defending, myself at least, because some seem to think I am rude by (I will say it again) DISCREETLY eating around items I cannot eat. It makes me feel like I pick out stuff and huck it at the wall or something. Maybe we are a bit more laid back and accepting of people's differences, but we are NOT rude or boorish when eating out.

[PG-rated]

PG, you know your husband and I don't. If you fear that "rude and childish" describes him, please don't pin that on me.
Over time, I've come to understand that you don't realize how incredibly snarky and condescending a comment like this sounds. So I'm respectfully bringing that to your attention. :)

[suzubeane]

Over time, I've come to understand that you don't realize how incredibly snarky and condescending a comment like this sounds. So I'm respectfully bringing that to your attention. :)Oh, I knew :). Since you've been paying attention, then you also know I get upset after being misquoted. And accused of name-calling, something I go out of my way not to do. :). I see all MY helpful hints haven't stopped the public lectures, though. :).

[SunnyAB]

I dont want to get into the scrum, but I just want to assure everyone that I did not mean to lecture, if thats how it came across - only state my case to bring a different perspective and maybe a bit more understanding. Obviously not going to make a difference, so good luck to all.

[PG-rated]

I won't apologize for calling you out for saying something rude and uncalled-for. But I'm glad to know that you chose to be condescending over something as inconsequential as food preference, as I won't waste my time trying to have a reasonable discussion with you in the future. :)

[pocket]

What was the attitude towards picky eating in your home when you were growing up? And, what do you do with your own family in your home now?

Pocketmom has a zero tolerance policy on picky eating. She entertains a lot – my dad’s work requires a high degree of formal entertaining. The woman owns 8 full sets of china and one is service for 24. We ate family style and you had to eat at least a few bites of what you put on your plate. If we didn’t like the food, she didn’t make us something else. Ever. I think she helped me to develop a diverse palate. She is an amazing cook and a foodie. She makes her own bagels. She makes her own mango chutney. She even makes her own masala. The sort of person who will call you to tell you about the incredible heirloom tomato she ate this morning with olive oil and salt and pepper. And that the last time she remembers eating such a wonderful tomato was in 1984 in Vermont. Pita’s mom took a different approach. You could eat what she was making or you could go in the kitchen and make yourself a pb&j. That’s it. Pita is a little picky – he eats almost everything, but not eggplant.

[suzubeane]

I didn't take your post as a lecture, Sunny, but it's not a matter of "culinary pride" either. Also, as I've said, I think intimate sit-down meals are in a different category than buffets, and I guess, 17 dishes heaped high. I'm curious if you don't mind sharing ... what culture are you referring to?

PG, I chose to call YOU out not over food preference, but for misquoting me and portraying me as a name-caller, both of which I take very seriously. I try to choose my words carefully, so I am happy not to attempt reasonable conversations with someone who does not; thanks in advance for keeping your promise. :)

[colz85]

What was the attitude towards picky eating in your home when you were growing up? And, what do you do with your own family in your home now?

We pretty much ate what was served...which is how I became a mushroom picker outer! My parents have always known I didn't care for them, but if the recipe called for them, well, too bad for me. We were expected to try things, but never forced, and after we were school age, we were pretty much past the whole "special kid food" stage. I first had crab and shrimp as a child, and loved it. I have a pretty diverse palate, especially for this part of the midwest, a wonder bread and miracle whip kind of place if there ever was one.

[PG-rated]

What was the attitude towards picky eating in your home when you were growing up? And, what do you do with your own family in your home now?
I'm convinced it's entirely MIL's fault that DH is a picky eater today - she regularly cooked him a separate meal from the rest of the family starting when he was very young. :rolleyes: My mom cooked fairly standard American fare, and would generally avoid things we all hated, but I'm pretty sure we had to at least try everything. I do about 80% of the cooking, and I'll generally just avoid ingredients that I know DH doesn't like, but I do force him to try new preparations of things he'll already eat, and every once in awhile I get him to try something completely new. As a result, he eats much more than he used to. Once we have kids, I'm hoping that I can cook a wider range of meals, and DH already understands that at that point, he's free to cook for himself if he doesn't like what I'm serving. :)

[Asha]

What was the attitude towards picky eating in your home when you were growing up? And, what do you do with your own family in your home now?

as i said before, no one served our portions. we could take as much or as little as we wanted, but we were expected to eat what we served ourselves. we did have to eat each dish, but we didn't have to eat a lot of it. we were allowed one meal (mine was beef stragonoff) in which we could take a pass. my mom would make us a sandwhich for that one meal. if we didn't finish our meal, we weren't allowed dessert. that def. worked for me bc i love my sugar.

i think my family's attitude was healthy bc now i am hardly a picky eater at all, and i like eating a lot of different kinds of foods. my step dad's mother would cook a different meal for practically every kid. now, my step dad is a very picky eater.

[colz85]

but I do force him to try new preparations of things he'll already eat, and every once in awhile I get him to try something completely new

Yeah, Steve kind of understands that if I go to the trouble of making it, he should really go to the trouble of tasting it! That said, I don't go out of my way to make things I know he won't like.

We were at a party once, and he was eating these little cheesy toast things like they were going out of style. YUM. Then he overheard my cousin say they had crab in them. And he stopped. Why? "I don't like crab". Whaaaa? He was snarfing them down like they were going' out of style, he liked 'em ok then. What's the diff?

[ejs]

My parents did not cater to me being a picky eater. If I didn't like an ingredient, I was to eat around it, SUBTLY. I didn't make piles of peppers on the edge of my plate and declare them trash.

I married into a family of Eastern European Jews and none of them has ever made a comment about picking around an ingredient. My DH even does it.

suzu, you have made very demeaning comments about people who do this, so I don't understand why you're acting so shocked that people are calling you out on it.

I don't think any of us are ever going to agree here.

eta: suzu, you've said that you have dietary restrictions and have no problem telling the host about them. I think dietary restrictions are completely different than personal preferences. My DH has some food allergies that we will tell new hosts about. But he also hates chocolate. I would never tell someone that. I do always offer to bring something, but most people have their menu planned out and don't need/want additional food.

[Mellow_Water1]

What was the attitude towards picky eating in your home when you were growing up?

When we were little, we were expected to eat at least 95% of what we were served, unless the portions were too big, and we were stuffed. My parents tried to steer clear of what we absolutely hated, though. For example, all of my siblings and I hated red cabbage, so she'd make us corn or peas instead. As I got older, I'd want to be "mature like Mom and Dad" by trying the cabbage. I don't care for it, but I'll eat it if that's what's served. My parents still make a couple different side dishes if someone doesn't care for something at all.

At a guest's house, I eat what's served, sometimes asking for a small portion of something I don't like. Unless I'd gag on something, (I can't think of anything, and I haven't done that since I was little), I'll eat it.

Holidays in my family are buffet style, so there's no problem there. I try to taste everything.

[PG-rated]

We were at a party once, and he was eating these little cheesy toast things like they were going out of style. YUM. Then he overheard my cousin say they had crab in them. And he stopped. Why? "I don't like crab". Whaaaa? He was snarfing them down like they were going' out of style, he liked 'em ok then. What's the diff?
GAAAHHHH!! I hate when DH does stuff like that! Although usually he'll ask before eating anything he doesn't recognize. On our honeymoon, we were served fish for lunch every day, with no other options, so he ate it. And liked it a lot (although he did tell himself it was chicken to get past that first bite). When we got back home, I told him I could make fish the same way, and would love to add that to the menu. He wouldn't hear of it. :rolleyes:

I keep in my head a list of the foods he honestly doesn't like, and a list of the foods he just thinks he doesn't like. Every once in awhile I work something from the second list into the rotation, and the fact that he knows I'll never try to get him to eat anything from the first list gives me more credibility on that front.

[mb1197]

I'm late to the party as usual I see. I'll comment anyway...

As DH is a chef he can pretty much accomodate any dietary needs, likes, dislikes. We make a habit of ALWAYS asking the people we have over the following things:

1) Allergies
2) Likes
3) Dislikes

It's as simple as that. Since we are the hosts we really want our guests to enjoy themselves and when DH cooks he wants to know that people will be able to eat the food he makes. If there is a vegan or vegatarian amoung meat eaters then he will prepare something special for that people. I understand that may not always be possible for many people in which case I suggest going out.

As for picking food out, if someone fails to let us know about a specific dislike and we include something like onions in the ingredients then I have absolutely no problem with them being discreet and picking them out or pushing a portion to a side of their plate. No big deal.

[Tanya]

I think this bothers some of us a lot more than others, and that's ok. My SIL is actually much better than she used to be (my BIL's not the sensitive type:p), but she still picks out stuff like mushrooms and onions. I've never thought to be offended by it. She's a trouper, though, for Christmas when we always serve rack of lamb, she eats it every time. Though when I made my mental list of what I wanted in a DH:D, in that list was that he couldn't be a picky eater. It just gets my goat, and I knew it would drive me nuts for the rest of my life. Thankfully, DH is almost less picky that me, and that's saying something. But MIL is a different story:rolleyes:.

My college roommate could do a perfect impression of her mother in a gruff voice yelling "JUST EAT IT!!!" This was her most prevalent memory from childhood. She's Chinese, so I think it was also cultural with them. Heck, I grew up with English parents who cooked some of the strangest stuff. And no, I was never allowed to eat anything else than what was cooked. Even if it was lima beans and curry.

[KarenS]

What was the attitude towards picky eating in your home when you were growing up? And, what do you do with your own family in your home now?We grew up overseas and in the cultures we lived in it was considered much ruder (more rude?) to refuse food that was offered than to be discreet about not eating hte whole thing.

My mom's policy was that you tried everything that was offered to you at least once. You didn't have to like it or eat a lot of it, but a couple of bites won't kill you.

At home we were each allowed 3 "dislikes". If those items were served at the dinner table we could refuse servings of those items. We weren't allowed to change dislikes on a whim, mind you. They had to be things that mom knew about. For example, one of mine was lima beans - so if mom fixed lima beans in any form, I didn't have to take a serving. OTOH, she never left htem out just because of me. So if she made a casserole with lima beans, I was expected to eat around them discreetly w/out making a fuss or making it obvious what I was doing.

The alternative was not to eat at all.

Karen

[suzubeane]

Great question, pocket ...

My mother put food on our plates and brought it to the table that way - even my father's (when he was home early enough to eat with us.) She was was not much of a culinary risk taker, but she always made sure we had well-rounded meals.

Our portions were size/age appropriage, and not eating what we were given was not an option. Furthermore, we were taught that we should accept and eat what we were given at a hosts dinner table, and picking things out to leave on the side was not polite. If we knew in advance that a dish had an ingredient we didn't like, we were to say "I don't care for any, thank you" and not allow it to end up on our plates, even if we liked the majority of the ingredients.

My father married my step-mother when I was 12, and "family style" eating became the norm. We took what we wanted, but I already knew (unless I was eating leftovers or just not at the dinner table) not to take things with ingredients I didn't like. I also took small amounts of things, because taking or accepting larger portions and then leaving food on your plate was not acceptable either.

My kids are lucky because their father is an excellent authentic Italian cook, and has exposed them to a diverse range of flavors. That said, I know he forces the younger one (age 10) to eat more than she wants to, but there's nothing I can do about that.

My son (17) cooks a few things, and eats anything put in front of him, even if he doesn't like it, but he has a pretty sophisticated pallet and prefers fresh, non-processed food. My daughter is more selective, but expected to try new foods at home. We only expect her to finish what she asks for or puts on her plate. This is not just about food waste, but about living in a family. Family members should not take anything for themselves and waste it, when another family-member might want it either at that time or later. It's about assessing one's own needs with respect to other members of the group - its more than just about food. I don't want my kids to overeat, I just want them to plan well and not take or ask for food they won't eat.

Outside the home, the rules are different. My kids know not to take or accept food that they know they won't eat - even parts of. I would be mortified if i thought my kids were offered or taking food, then picking through it or being discreet by leaving a bunch on their plates.

In my ex-husband's family (southern, rural Italy) food was a completely different issue. Habits were born out of a time when families didn't have enough to share, so if someone offered you food, but didn't show you the food, you were to decline so they could save face. If they offered you food, and showed it to you, that meant they really had food to share. At that point, you were obligated to accept every bit of it. At least this is how it ws explained to me. I can't tell you how much Baccalà I consumed in Italy because of this custom, and I HATE Baccalà!

I stopped eating beef and poultry at age 17 (added poultry back in last year) and spent the better part of my adulthood devising ways to let new dinner hosts know this in advance without seeming too pushy. The best way I found was to be honest, saying "I don't want to create work for you, please let me bring something."

One thing I've learned in this thread is that some people don't want to be told in advance of dietary restrictions, so I'll have to consider that from now on. My diet has become even MORE restricted due to some medication I just started taking, so this is going to be tricky for me.

Phew ... long explanation!

[bookworm]

I don't remember my mom making a lot of things we didn't like--her father was the world's pickiest eater (no sauces/condiments of any kind), and she learned to cook from her mother :). She would leave out ingredients we didn't like, but she'd never make a separate meal. I think we were welcome to make ourselves peanut butter sandwiches, but I don't really remember doing it.

I was much pickier when I was younger, but I don't really consider myself picky anymore. I like a lot of different things, most vegetables, almost any type of ethnic food (there are a couple of exceptions), but there are a few major items I really don't like (fish, eggs, mayonnaise, beans/legumes). I guess some would consider that picky, and I can live with that, but it's not my definition.

[Mellow_Water1]

At that point, you were obligated to accept every bit of it.

I think it's interesting to learn what different cultural norms are. In high school, I remember when our World Cultures teacher told us that in some countries, it is considered rude to leave something on a plate because the host or cook feels that the meal did not satisfy people. OTOH, in other countries it is rude to eat every last bite of what is served because the host thinks that one is not full enough, and is still hungry.

[wendalah]

I am saying this totally independent of the fact that I am friends with Suzubeane, this is not to "defend" her. My honest opinion is: I think it's gross to pick stuff out of your food and make a little pile. My husband does it sometimes (he doesn't like mushrooms or raisins) and it drives me up a wall.

If I don't like something, I do what Bookworm described--force a few bites down, and praise the things I do like.

[pocket]

But he also hates chocolate. I would never tell someone that.

:eek:

HATES CHOCOLATE?!

[/hyperventilating]

[ejs]

:eek:

HATES CHOCOLATE?!

[/hyperventilating]
I know! When he proposed, I really had to give some serious thought to if I wanted to marry a man who didn't eat chocolate. But his other qualities made up for that. :)

The best part is when we go to a fondue place and I get ALL of the chocolate fondue for dessert. He eats the dippers, but the chocolate is mine, all mine! Mwa ha ha ha!!

[wendalah]

I actually like onions more than I like chocolate. ;)

[ejs]

I actually like onions more than I like chocolate. ;)
Let's dine together! You can have all of my onions and I'll have all of your chocolate.

[prudies]

My husband does it sometimes (he doesn't like mushrooms or raisins) and it drives me up a wall.
What is it with men and their mushrooms (uh, so to speak)? I know so many women with husbands (including me and DH) who don't like them!

[KK812]

To me, forcing a child to eat something they hate just because it is served to them is detrimental to their willingness to try new foods. As a child, I was made to eat everything that was being served. I knew HATED mushrooms, as I had tried them before, and my mom rarely made them, but one time when she did I was told that I must eat them. Well, I ate one, and got sick, for lack of a more polite word, right then and there. Was it all in my head? Most definitely, but to this day I have that memory attached to mushrooms. Needless to say, I was never forced to eat mushrooms again, and I would never even entertain the fact of incorporating mushrooms into my diet. Had I not been forced, I may have given them another go.

Obviously this is a dramatic example, but you get my drift. I'd rather have my child eat everything that they do like and if addressed, politely say "Oh, everything is so good, but I don't care for [insert food]," rather than have an aversion to exploring new foods.


What? You mean like someone suggesting that they're petty and trifling?




Sure, if that's what blows your skirt up. :)

[SunnyAB]

suzu - I am Polish.

As for growing up - I think I already described this, but it was usually family style, we helped ourselves, and Mom was and is a GREAT cook, and way back then I DID eat onions, but somehow they no longer agree with me (if they are in big chunks and not chopped small - its some sort of digestive thing I guess). But we were never allowed - or encouraged to heap our plates at everyday meals. We could ask for seconds if there was enough, but we couldnt heap up our plate and then just waste it either - BIG no-no. Our food wasnt 'fancy' we lived on a farm and grew most if not all our own vegetables - and all that planting, weeding, harvesting and canning or freezing was hard work! Had our own chickens, cows, pigs - so I have a great amount of respect for food and the work that is involved in growing and processing it. We werent likely to waste much. If we went out, basically the same rules, we were encouraged, but never forced to try something new, and if we werent sure we only took a bit - basically just enough for a taste. And I just dont get the 'piles' of picked out food... if there was that much of one ingredient in a dish I would politely decline, but there is never any great piles of stuff left on my plate.

[suzubeane]

To me, forcing a child to eat something they hate just because it is served to them is detrimental to their willingness to try new foods. I guess this may be true for some, but haven't people here said the opposite about their spouses? (That having been permitted to eat the same few things as children may be to blame for their picky eating habits now.)

And while I'm not thrilled that my ex-husband forces/forced the kids eat anything, my 17 year-old son (as I mentioned) has turned out to have very sophisticated taste in food. I don't know any boys his age who would cook something fresh rather than snack on junk (or just prepared) food. His older half brother is 25 and is the same way. He was cooking himself "snacks" by the age of 12. I really think that the early exposure to different kinds of foods had something to do with this.

Sure, if that's what blows your skirt up. :)What does that mean? I know what the expression means, but how does it work in the context of the previous comments? I should be pleased to know that people who notice food picking are shallow because they don't have anything more significant to worry about? I'm not even sure how you got to that conclusion in this discussion. Or maybe you are suggesting that the practice of picking through food won't leave a host with a pang of regret for having served the "wrong" thing?

:confused:

[Asha]

To me, forcing a child to eat something they hate just because it is served to them is detrimental to their willingness to try new foods.

i don't agree with forcing children, but i think children can be coaxed to try new things. for one, if they aren not completely catered to by having a whole separate meal prepared for them they will try new things. also, if you have things like dessert contingent on finishing the main course, it will get a lot of kids to eat their food. i have niece who refuses to eat green beans. no one has ever got her to eat green beans ever. i told her if she ate three spoonfuls of green beans she would get to eat cake. guess what? she ate the green beans.

[colz85]

i don't agree with forcing children, but i think children can be coaxed to try new things. for one, if they aren not completely catered to by having a whole separate meal prepared for them they will try new things.

I have issues with forcing kids to eat as well. It's a basic control thing, what a person puts in his or her body. No kid will actually starve him or herself to death, and if left to their own devices they pretty much eat when they are hungry and stop when they are full.

I also agree with the "catering to" aspect. This is what's for dinner. Eat it. If not, well, there's always breakfast....

[pocket]

god - i'm totally still thinking about the small piles of mushrooms and onions!

ok, so what if you are eating a formal meal with your boss, a client or a dignitary? surely you don't make little piles of mushrooms and onions in that situation, right?

also, prudies just reminded me that our mutual friend Hans who is an extremely picky eater just moved in with my mom and pocketmom is making him eat things. he's had to eat salmon!

[colz85]

ok, so what if you are eating a formal meal with your boss, a client or a dignitary? surely you don't make little piles of mushrooms and onions in that situation, right?

I don't make piles, as a general rule. In fact, unless you were REALLY scrutinizing everything on my plate, you wouldn't notice what I did or didn't eat.

Do people REALLY clean their plates to the degree they look licked clean with nary a morsel left? Because while I can put away the groceries, there is always some "stuff" left on my plate when I'm finished.

[suzubeane]

Do people REALLY clean their plates to the degree they look licked clean with nary a morsel left? Licked clean? I that meant to be the unappetizing opposite of "little piles of food?" (You may not make them, colz, but "little piles" actually has been refered to here by some whose spouses do.)

I'm surprised that people find it so hard to believe that in some families and/or cultures, it's not acceptable to take food on your plate that you don't intend to eat.

As I said earlier - it's about more than food and good table manners. I expect my kids to eat as much as they want, but not take more than they'll eat. They owe it to the other members of the family (or their host if in someone elses home) to be more self aware.

[KarenS]

I don't make piles, as a general rule. In fact, unless you were REALLY scrutinizing everything on my plate, you wouldn't notice what I did or didn't eatYep.

I don't understand why a small group of people wants to make this into some rude, hugely obvious thing that is done with "rummaging" and "dissecting" and "piles". You are obviously describing it in the most disgusting manner you can think of in order to prove your point, which only proves that you have no clue what you're talking about. It also furthers my belief that many people have probably done some "selective eating" around you before and you've never even noticed it.

Why can you not accept that some people can eat around an ingredient (onions, peppers, mushrooms seem to be the most common, but really any ingredient) w/out being boors about it? Or is it just that YOU would be a boor about it and you cannot conceive of others who wouldn't act so?

Not everything is done to the extreme.

Karen

[prudies]

I guess the question is whether any of your friends ever looked at your post-meal plate and asked, oh, you don't like x?

I disagree with truly forcing a child to eat a big portion of something he hates, but there are plenty of gentler approaches that I'm fine with. It's important to encourage kids to try new foods, to expose them to different kinds of foods, to teach them table manners, and about mealtime rituals. These are all things a kid needs to learn.

[suzubeane]

I don't understand why a small group of people wants to make this into some rude, hugely obvious thing that is done with "rummaging" and "dissecting" and "piles".Karen, maybe you didn't realize, but the first description here of "picking through" (again - not my term) looked like this:

Well, yeah. Honestly, he's so good at it that you'd never notice him doing it, but then his omelet is gone and only the onion pieces (or whatever) are left. :)

And that pretty much set up the visual for those of us who would find this troubling. The implication is a.) there's some pride taken in something many of us were raised to believe was poor table manners, and b.) a pile of only the offending food is leftover after the process is complete. Why is it so surprising to you that this image made an impression on a group of people? (a not-so-small group if one is to believe the off-line conversations about this thread.)

Some people find the "picking through" of food disturbing. Some hosts will take note and maybe feel bad. This has been an enlightening thread for many of us, and this should be one of the take-home messages here - People who hadn't realized it before might want to reconsider "picking" instead of protesting so much. (Do you realize you've now used the word "rummage" more times than I did?)

[colz85]

Licked clean? I that meant to be the unappetizing opposite of "little piles of food?"

No, Suzubean, it was merely a turn of phrase.

[suzubeane]

Just asking. I just thought it was a very effective way of conjuring up an image equally as distasteful as "picking through food" for those who aren't bothered by that idea at all.

[ejs]

suzu, please stop talking about piles of leftover ingredients. I don't think that many of us picky eaters do that. I do NOT make piles of onions and peppers on my plate. I don't scoot them all together. I don't move them into a special pile or section on my plate. I don't dissect a portion of food for ten straight minutes to pick out the ingredients I do not like. I eat around them. It's really not a big production like you seem to think.

Your insistence that we make piles and rummage is getting annoying.

You've made it clear that you think we're rude, childish, wasteful, and offensive. We get how you think.

As I've said, my parents never catered to my whims. As a child, I had to take three bites of every new dish. Then I was allowed to decide if I liked it or not. If my mother chose to serve cooked carrots, I did not take a portion for myself. But if she made something with pieces of peppers in it, I was allowed to eat around it.

Throughout my life, I've dined with many different sorts of people. People from different religions and cultures and high-level executives, among others. Nobody ever commented on my "rude, offensive, lack of manners," nobody ever looked aghast, nobody ever pointed anything out.

You might think I'm rude. But I don't think that majority of people do.

[colz85]

Throughout my life, I've dined with many different sorts of people. People from different religions and cultures and high-level executives, among others. Nobody ever commented on my "rude, offensive, lack of manners," nobody ever looked aghast, nobody ever pointed anything out.



And I would like to add that I think scrutinizing or even making a point to even NOTICE what other people (who are not your own children) are or are not eating is also rude.

There are so many reasons people do and don't eat things. Preference, allergy, digestive reasons....whatever. Personally, I don't want attention called to me. I don't want to explain about my IBS, or that cooked onions are fine, raw are not, or that hard boiled eggs make me gag. If you (general you) invite me to dinner, I may or may not "clean my plate". But I will praise your food (even if the flank steak has a mushroom sauce) and hospitality, and probably send a thank you note afterward.

So I'm really pretty comfortable with my level of politeness.

[KK812]

What does that mean? I know what the expression means, but how does it work in the context of the previous comments? I should be pleased to know that people who notice food picking are shallow because they don't have anything more significant to worry about? I'm not even sure how you got to that conclusion in this discussion. Or maybe you are suggesting that the practice of picking through food won't leave a host with a pang of regret for having served the "wrong" thing?

:confused:

Nope, it was in reference to this, which I quoted right above what I said:


What? You mean like someone suggesting that they're petty and trifling?

which was in response to this, I believe


I think people who worry about things like this should think of something more significant to be offended by. jmo

Meaning if it suits you to be offended by people suggesting that you're petty or trifling, even though I called no one out by name and was only making a general statement, then so be it.

I guess this may be true for some, but haven't people here said the opposite about their spouses? (That having been permitted to eat the same few things as children may be to blame for their picky eating habits now.)

And while I'm not thrilled that my ex-husband forces/forced the kids eat anything, my 17 year-old son (as I mentioned) has turned out to have very sophisticated taste in food. I don't know any boys his age who would cook something fresh rather than snack on junk (or just prepared) food. His older half brother is 25 and is the same way. He was cooking himself "snacks" by the age of 12. I really think that the early exposure to different kinds of foods had something to do with this.


Trust me, I completely agree. I plan on exposing my children to every food I can get my hands on, but if they don't like after a few tries, than I can't change that and will let it go. If they aboslutely destest something after having a few bites, I would never think of making them eat it next time it is served. I think this would give me more leverage, because it would take away the idea that all new foods are yucky, and I'm made to eat them anyway.

[suzubeane]

Your insistence that we make piles and rummage is getting annoying. I said "rummage" once. Apart from my explanation to Karen, the last few references to "piles" have not been mine, so you may want to redirect your comments. After being admonished, I returned to term "pick through" which I believed to be the accepted term here among picky eaters/spouses of picky eaters. I'm sorry if I got that wrong.

You've made it clear that you think we're rude, childish, wasteful, and offensive. We get how you think. Apparently not. *sigh* I don't name-call, and you will not find one instance of my saying that anyone is rude, childish or wasteful. I never said that I was offended or that anyone was "offensive." In fact, I don't think I used any form of the word "offend." Why would I? It's not about being offended at all; its about a host *noticing.*

Nobody ever commented on my "rude, offensive, lack of manners," nobody ever looked aghast, nobody ever pointed anything out. Many points have been made here about cultural differences, and social expectations around food. I meant it when I said this had been an enlightening thread; I've learned some things here that will change the way I approach future hosts with respect to my own dietary restrictions.

That's why I don't understand what the protesting is about. I'll repeat: some people find the "picking through" of food disturbing. Some hosts will take note and maybe feel bad. Its ridiculous that I have to say this again - If you (general you) think I'm wrong, then ignore me. If you fear I may be right, then I've done you a favor by giving you something to think about - just as I now have something to think about. (And really ... Does anyone expect that hosts who notice guests picking through food will TELL THEM they've noticed?)

And I would like to add that I think scrutinizing or even making a point to even NOTICE what other people (who are not your own children) are or are not eating is also rude. I'm starting to think there really must be a disconnect between those who might be described as picky, and those hosting them at meals. Does anyone really think a host needs to examine leftovers under a magnifying glass in order to have doubts about the way a meal turned out? Or feel sheepish for serving something a guest didn't like? Or regret an entire menu choice? Do picky eaters just not ever find themselves in that position when *serving* food, and that's why none here can imagine this actually happens? I'm really starting to wonder.

KK812 - I followed the exchange; you didn't need to repeat the whole thing just because you threw in one clever expression where it didn't really work. Not sure where you got the idea i was offended, either. *shrug*

[colz85]

To clarify:


Nobody ever commented on my "rude, offensive, lack of manners," nobody ever looked aghast, nobody ever pointed anything out.

Was originally posted by EJS, not me.

[suzubeane]

Oops - sorry! I will fix it.

[prudies]

Trust me, I completely agree. I plan on exposing my children to every food I can get my hands on, but if they don't like after a few tries, than I can't change that and will let it go. Hmm. Actually, my DH was telling me that he read somewhere that a child might need to try a new food something like 40 times before they like it. Apparently, palates take some time to develop.

I have no way of knowing whether the picky eaters here are blatantly obvious or incredibly stealthy. In general I tend to like people who enjoy food, and eat a wide variety of cuisines and food items. The people I've become friends with because of other interests who are also picky eaters, I don't dicuss food and cooking with them. Honestly, I find our whole approach to food is typically different. Now, I'm not talking about the person who has one or two dislikes, or who is prevented from eating something for health or religious/moral reasons. We can work around that. I mean a truly picky eater. This may be a coincidence, but my experience has been that the picky eaters tend to be very rigid in their cooking and food shopping habits, and that's just no fun for me.

[ejs]

suzu, my apologies for not having exact quotes for you. Here are things you have said about the habits of some picky eaters:

"I'm sorry, but I would be very taken aback to see an adult do this in my home after I'd put effort into planning and preparing a meal."

"But it's not important to me that everything I cook be eaten - just that it not be rifled through and left to the side like trash. I've seen people do that at diners and sandwich shops, but the only people who have done that in my home are children.

I take it it's never occurred to you or your DH that people who see him do this might be consider it rude, but some people do. (How many people invite you back after they've seen him do it?) "

"Never implied he was. I said some people find it rude. :) "

"Or - worst case scenario - decline one or two things on the menu, but don't allow something to be put on your plate and then paw through it."

"Bottom line: many people who entertain would be put off to see someone at the dinner table separating out the food they consider trash before the the plates are being cleared.

Further, you may think you're being discreet, but if you leave little piles of that which is offensive to you on the side of your plate, you are not."

"And since there are ways of avoiding having your host feel sheepish for serving the "wrong" thing, why not choose one of those rather than rummage through the food on your plate for something you find edible?"

"FWIW, I'm not suggesting that guests "force" others to eat the way they do; I think declining one or two items on the menu is far better than accepting something on your plate, and then inspecting it for ingredients deemed repulsive."

"I think most people are able to identify piles of one, two, or three distinct kinds of food when a plate is otherwise empty. If guests have simply "eaten around" ingredients in dishes they have accepted or helped themselves to, it might look like they took more than they could eat, which many hosts register as wasteful rather than being due to an aversion. "

These are some quotes that made me reply to you. While you haven't really directly called people rude, you've come as close as you can get without saying the actual word. You've mentioned rummaging, piles, and acting like things are trash.

As I believe I've said, we're obviously never going to see eye-to-eye about this. Fortunately, my friends, family, and I all seem to be on the same page and we haven't had any problems. I hope that your future meals are as enjoyable and successful as mine have been. Food and meals are something everyone should be able to enjoy.

[KarenS]

Suzu, you came into this therad throwing punches. I went back and pulled some of the more obvious quotes from your earlier posts:

just that it not be rifled through and left to the side like trash.

the only people who have done that in my home are children.

(How many people invite you back after they've seen him do it?)

allow something to be put on your plate and then paw through it.

separating out the food they consider trash

inspecting it for ingredients deemed repulsive.

I never knew that any adult found it acceptable pick though food

Given that you said also in this thread that: I try to choose my words carefully, you obviously are aware of the implication of repeatedly saying "adults don't do this" or "only children do this" and using words like "pawing through", "repulsive", and (repeatedly) "trash". Not to mention the snide question about "how many people have invited you back" which was uncalled for rude.

Since you "choose your words carefully" it's very clear what kind of statement you were making. Continuing to insist that you weren't or that you're only using the words other people were using is disingenious. Others have managed to say the same thing you have politely without implying that the other side are full of unmannered children who paw through their food and treat it like trash.

Karen

ETA: Looks like ejs and I cross posted.

[suzubeane]

Hmm. Some of those quotes manage to stand alone; some of them don't work out of context. Regardless, what's your point, ejs? That I've been a prolific contributer to this thread? I have.

And? What exactly did you mean to show? That I didn't call anyone rude, childish or wasteful? That I never did mention "offense?" That I did indeed stop referring to "piles" well before your last post where you accused me of doing so? That I have a knack for saying the same thing lots of different ways? I'm confused!

Well, I guess it doesn't matter. Since your friends and family are all on the same page as you are, and you'll never, ever eat with anyone who might see things more closely to the way I do, it's a good thing you don't care what I think. And you sure went to a lot of trouble to show that you don't!

eta: Karen - see above.

Really, you two. Did you think you'd shame me by showing me my own words? C'mon. I'm not the one protesting too much here.

Repeating again: If you (general you) think I'm wrong, then ignore me. If you fear I may be right, then I've done you a favor by giving you something to think about - just as I now have something to think about.

[ejs]

Hmm. Some of those quotes manage to stand alone; some of them don't work out of context. Regardless, what's your point, ejs? That I've been a prolific contributer to this thread? I have.

And? What exactly did you mean to show? That I didn't call anyone rude, childish or wasteful? That I never did mention "offense?" That I did indeed stop referring to "piles" well before your last post where you accused me of doing so? That I have a knack for saying the same thing lots of different ways? I'm confused!

Well, I guess it doesn't matter. Since your friends and family are all on the same page as you are, and you'll never, ever eat with anyone who might see things more closely to the way I do, it's a good thing you don't care what I think. And you sure went to a lot of trouble to show that you don't!

I think that my point was quite clear. I'm sorry that you didn't get it. But I did appreciate your subtle sarcasm.

[KarenS]

Look, I am one of the least picky eaters I know. But I cannot stand the taste of cooked bell peppers. Actually, I think it's more the texture than the taste. Whatever it is, I just really really don't like them. They're one of the few things that I will turn down if I know a dish is made up of mostly cooked peppers. Or I will ask for 1/2 the pizza to not have bell peppers or whatever.

But I'm not going to turn down an entire casserole or pasta dish or whatever just because it happens to have some bell pepper in it. And I'm certainly not going to ask someone to prepare their recipe and leave out a component of it. And quite frankly there are a lot of things I *LIKE* that just happen to have cooked bell pepper in them. So I eat the casserole or the pasta or whatever, and just eat around the bell pepper. It's not the huge big deal you're making it out to be. You make it sound like eveyrone who does something like this is some ill mannered child who "paws" (your "carefully chosen" word) through their food, leaving huge piles of peppers on their plate, when the reality could not be further from that.

If you (general you) think I'm wrong, then ignore me. If you fear I may be right, then I've done you a favor by giving you something to think about - just as I now have something to think about.It's not about wrong or right. Other people have managed to express why they would find something like that rude w/out managing to continue to imply that someone who does it is not an "adult" or treats their food like "trash". Certainly I've learned that there are some few people who might be insulted that I didn't eat the bell peppers in their casserole. So I'll consider that. But having not considered it before and doing what I thought was the polite thing to do in the circumstances (taking what was offered and simply eating what I could of it) doesn't make me any less of an adult or mean that I treat food like "trash" or like something "repulsive". And no matter how many times you insist that's not what you meant, your "carefully chosen" words say otherwise.

Karen

[suzubeane]

Karen, I would have expected that of all people YOU would have noticed my backing off the use of words like "trash" and "rummage." (Which I will say again - YOU have repeated more times than I actually used.)

If you need a reminder of the evolution of my vocabulary here, I refer you to ejs' chronological synopsis above (even though it does not refer to my more recent posts. Apparently those weren't considered inflammatory enough to include.)

My point has not changed; my terminology has. Your continued harping on my choice of words as if it didn't change after your earlier posts on the matter is not helping your argument.

[KarenS]

Karen, I would have expected that of all people YOU would have noticed my backing off the use of words like "trash" and "rummage." (Which I will say again - YOU have repeated more times than I actually used.) Suzu, whether you backed off of them or not, you never actually admitted that they might have been a little over the top and prejudicial. Ok, yes, you did eventually stop using those words when they were pointed out, but you never backed down on the message ... which is that people who pick out or eat around something are rude and you're doing us a favor by pointing that out. You say that people should be aware of cultural differences in how refusing vs. eating around is perceived, but then you yourself refuse to be aware or accepting of those cultural differences - as evidenced in even your most recent posts where you again flat out dismiss any experience contrary to yours with a snide remark: Well, I guess it doesn't matter. Since your friends and family are all on the same page as you are, and you'll never, ever eat with anyone who might see things more closely to the way I do,


But whatever. I'm annoyed that you can't at least admit that you may have gone too far in your earlier posts - not just "didn't you notice I changed my terminology" but actually admit that you overexaggerated and used prejudicial words.

Anyway, that's the last I'll say on the topic.

Karen

[KK812]

Wow. The righteousness of some people completely astounds me. :rolleyes:

[southerner]

Anyway......

Paige, What did you end up serving today?

[suzubeane]

Karen, please don't suggest I lack cultural sensitivity, or say that I called *people* rude. I can understand how you might have missed it while you were culling out and inflating the number of times I used words like "rummage," but I really did say several times that I'd learned things here that would inform how I approach the subject going forward. The quote you pulled was not a dismissal of anything, but a statement about the continued protests by those invested in the notion that I'm alone in my opinion.

KK - Hey, whatever floats your boat!

(May I assume that's proper usage of a clever expression thrown in nonsensically?)

southerner - FWIW, I did apologize to Paige privately early on for derailing the thread. If she'd indicated it was a problem, I would have stopped, but I really do think it's been an interesting discussion overall. (and I think she was going to go with the fritata ;).)

[chefker]

I'm late to the party here, I see. :)

I do think there's a distinction between dealing with a picky eater at a quiet, family dinner (for example, myself, DH and DS--who is at puree baby food stage so he doesn't really count) :) , and dealing with picky eater(s) at a larger dinner party.

If it's just me and DH, I have to deal with the fact that he hates eggs. I happen to LOVE eggs, but we deal with it. It does get harder though when dealing with a larger dinner party setting. I always try to do everthing buffet style, making at least one or two vegetarian dishes, one seafood, one chicken, and one beef and/or pork. It's a lot of hard work, but usually there is something for everyone that way.

As for people picking stuff out of their food--it doesn't really bother me unless they make a huge deal out of it. Like my mother, the mushroom hater. Fine if you don't like them on your pizza, or in your spaghetti sauce, but she makes these piles, and then my father, who can't let anything go to waste, shoves his plate at mom and says "give me those." :rolleyes: So he'll eat my mom's semi-cold, leftover mushrooms. Blech!

I'm not really offended by that I guess, so long as they don't do that in fancy restaurants. :)

[gayle]

Wow, this thread really took off and went crazy since I first posted. LOL

I'll throw in a few more thoughts on picky eating now that I have read the responses.

I really like to cook and entertain, and like Pocket, I work very hard at coming up with creative and interesting menus and wine pairings.

I don't have a problem altering a menu plan IF I know ahead of time that there is an issue with something, an allergy, a special dietary need etc.

I DO mind a guest not clueing me in, and then having the audacity to make rude comments about what I have prepared, or the ingredients I have used. I don't have a big issue with someone discretely not eating something, or parts of something that they just cannot bear to eat.

Typically if I know I have a picky eater coming to my house, and I don't know what things they find distasteful, I will serve buffet style, so they can take what they want without being forced to manipulate what I have plated up for them.

As to children and picky eating, I DO believe that picky eaters are primarily created by lack of exposure to new foods, and an unwillingness to try new things.

For example, my youngest stepdaughter is probably the pickiest eater I have ever known. The list of what she won't eat is far larger than what she will eat. No one really cooked when she was growing up, and no one really thought about good nutrition or balanced meals. When I first met her she had to be conned into even taking a bite of something new (watching DH's method for this was absurd), and of course, she'd hate everything because before she'd even taken a bite, she already KNEW she didn't like it.

On the other hand, I grew up with a mother who was a lousy and boring cook, but, who paid great attention to the idea of nutrition and balanced meals.I thought her food was so dull, I was eager and very willing to try almost anything new, that had some flavor, and I like almost everything today and there is really nothing I won't try with an open mind.

Adult picky eaters are well-established in their likes and dislikes, and again, as long as they aren't rude about it and communicate with me in advance, I don't mind doing things a little differently, within reason.