How old is too old for nursing? (Spinoff of NIP thread)....

[BooeyJ2]

Just curious what age people think is too old for a child to be nursed. I know that sometimes people are "afraid" to say their opinion, so I thought a poll would be best.

No reponses or opinions please, just votes so that this doesn't turn into ANOTHER wonderful CC catfight :)

[BooeyJ2]

*bump* - since there are almost 200 views but only about 50 votes :)

[Sarah]

WTH? People are saying 1 year old is too old? Ugh.

[KimberDK]

I think there is a big distinction between "a child" and "my child". I will be in a poisition to determine how old is too old for *my* child to breastfeed because I will be able to assess when she and I are ready to stop. I do not think I am in a position to determine how old is too old for *someone else's* child to breastfeed. I find it so odd when people make sweeping statements where they assign arbitrary cut-offs like "if they're old enough to ask for it, they're too old". What is that based on? Does anyone ever say "If they're old enough to say that their diaper is dirty, they're too old to be wearing one"? I have never heard that, but I don't see why a child being ready to toilet train is any different than a child being ready to wean. More importantly, I don't understand at all why anyone cares how long someone else nurses their child. If both the child and the mother are happy with their breastfeeding relationship, why does anyone else care?

[Rico'sAlice]

Other!

I know you said just to vote, but I wasn't able to pick any of the choices.

I would not say 7 is too old. But I also wouldn't say never.
I am willing to state that I am not comfortable with a child w/o developmental delays to be nursing once they hit puberty.
I could see trying to pump and feed EBM after that point if there were special medical needs. And I don't rule out the possibility that for certain children with severe special needs that continuing the breastfeeding relationship beyond that point could be beneficial for nurture reasons in addition to nutritional ones.
I also think it is unreasonable to continue nursing after a child has moved out of the house.

But if I had to choose I guess I would pick "never" over seven yo.
Or does anything over seven mean any number greater than seven. Maybe I am supposed to pick that.??

But in general, like PP mentioned, I think it depends on the needs of the child & mother and is their decision. (Although I admit I am pretty uncomfortable with the idea of deliberately weaning before age 2.)

[lml41981]

Other. I support child-led weaning if that is what mom and child are comfortable with.

[msnicolea]

I'm amazed at how many people said 1 was too old--are you kidding me?

[Jaycee]

I didn't see an option for "college age" .

[BethIrish]

Jaycee - clearly, you should select the last option, then.

Personally, I'll be encouraging DS to go to a local college...the commute would kill our nursing relationship ;)

[msnicolea]

Why stop at college--now that so many young people are living at home after they get their degrees, I say "keep the party going!"

[BethIrish]

Why stop at college--now that so many young people are living at home after they get their degrees, I say "keep the party going!"

Hmmm. Good point. Okay, revised: Until he gets married. Well, actually, maybe until after the honeymoon. I mean, really, if I'm going to nurse him for that long, I should at least get to go on the honeymoon, right? Hmm, I vote Hawaii ;)

eta: In all seriousness, now that I have DS, I can honestly say my views have changed. I think child led weaning is going to be the way we go. Not to say I won't gently encourage it if he's 3 or so. Just my personal preference.

[cosmic]

bump!

[tgal]

Sorry, for not respecting your initial request, BOOEY.

I agree, whatever is best for mom and baby. Having to stop bfing was far more emotional than I ever imagined. I started drying up around 8 months, which now looking back I know dd started weening herself. At 1, dd has shocked me with her independence and had I not dried out, I would have bf to 1 year until the switch to whole milk was comlete. This is why I responded 1 year. Because that is for me, no one else. I could care less if some one sits in public nursing their college student! ; ) Who knows maybe with our next, that dc will want to stay attached to me for the long haul.

[allyray231]

I think it depends on the child and the parent. I had a friend that nursed her son till her was 3. She now has a second child and she isn't sure if she will nurse that long.

I think 3 or 4 would be an age where I would not be comfortable nursing. To me, there is not really a benefit for a child after that other then comfort, but that is just my opinion.

[Marisa]

To me, there is not really a benefit for a child after that other then comfort, but that is just my opinion.

Medically, scientifically, the content of the milk does not change significantly after the child is 1+ years (though the balance of fats/nutrients may vary), so there will always be antibodies and immunities transferred to the child.

[allyray231]

ah I stand corrected-thanks Marisa :)

[chloechloe]

I am just curious, I belong to another less mainstream website and many moms nurse until a child is 7 years old. I am currently nursing a three year old and a 4 month old and curious to see what more *mainstream* moms think about extended nursing.....

[IrishEyes]

I nursed my DS for 6 months. I'd be willing to go as long as 1-2 yrs with another child. I may not be interested in EN, but I have no opinion as far as what other mothers decide. It's a personal choice.

[boilermaker]

I think I personally would feel uncomfortable nursing beyond 3-4 and would prob feel uncomfortable if I saw a child older than that being NIP, but hey, to each their own and if it is right for your family, then by all means who i am to stop you.

[Marisa]

I can't answer your poll, because there's no way I'd make this decision for another mom -- just as there's no way I want anyone else making the decision for me. :)

[MLA]

I seem to remember there being another poll about this some time ago, but I can't seem to find it . . .

[gizzyntaz]

I don't believe in arbitrary "magic" ages. In this particular situation, it depends on the mother's needs and the child's needs.

[mmm0708]

I answered based on my own experiences and what would make ME uncomfortable.

But whatever choice another mom makes is their business... doesn't bother me at all. As long as they're happy and comfortable, that's all that matters.

[alisong]

Is the question "beyond what age would you not want to breastfeed?" or "what is the maximum age any child should be breastfed?" My answers will be quite different for the two questions.

[villanelle75]

There was definitely a poll on this a while back.

I don't have kids so I can't even begin to guess how long I would breastfeed them for. As for other people's kids, I don't care what their parents chose.

[BethIrish]

I honestly have no idea. DS is 9 months old, and I see us continuing to nurse as long as we are both comfortable with it...whether it's another 3 months or another 3 years or more.

[amew]

I don't really buy into the picking an arbitrary age thing either. That said, I think 3-4 is where I would personally be inclined to draw the line, but I certainly wouldn't want to stop another woman from doing what she felt was best for her kid in that area (or run around yelling "ew, gross" or whatever). I'll admit that seven feels awfully old for nursing to me, though.

[Ericka_Jarett]

http://www.constantchatter.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11704 - Extended nursing relationship thread

[mel7dog]

I believe in child wed leaning, so I don't feel any age is too old if the relationship is a postive one for Mom and child. Personally I don't think I would nurse past 3-4, but my DS is only 16m so who knows. As for what seems mainstream, where I live I'm looked at a bit weird for nursing a baby over 1y :confused:

[Niobe]

I also don't have kids, so I'm just voting on gut feelings here. :) I haven't known anyone personally to nurse past 2 1/2, but that didn't seem weird or too long to me. So I voted for 5 and beyond. I don't think I would be comfortable nursing a school-aged child, but like I said, I don't have kids yet. Maybe I'll nurse till my kids are in college. ;)

[Lizard]

It's none of my business how long someone nurses their child - I see nothing wrong with nursing a 7 year old, assuming it's a mutual "want". I'm a member on a less mainstream board too, and it seems like 7 is the time that even the most extreme of EN'd kids wean themselves. I don't think I've heard of a kid over 8 nursing.

[Hello Kitty]

bump

[DansGirl]

Yeah its interesting what's considered "mainstream." I'm the only one in my circle of family & friends who BF. I've gotten some comments from people about I better start weaning and DD is only 6 months!

[jennylou]

Before I had kids or was really reading anything about motherhood or ttc or anything along those lines, I thought that if a child had teeth, could ask for it, etc it was too old.

Now though, I'm nursing my one year old. Honestly, she still needs it. Does she ask for it? Yep, and she has from a young age, she will sign milk or else let me know in other ways that she's ready. Sometimes, I redirect her, other times, I nurse her, it really depends on where we are at, what we are doing and if she is truly hungry (or just bored, she loves to nurse when bored).

I'm not so sure that I am personally comfortable nursing a child that is three or four, but I've changed my mind before, so I can't totally rule it out in the future. ;)

[scorpioanne]

I can't answer your poll, because there's no way I'd make this decision for another mom -- just as there's no way I want anyone else making the decision for me. :)

I agee with you. My son nursed until he weaned himself at 3 and he is a happy, healthy, well-adjusted man now.

[MrsT]

I find it odd that 80% of people think 2 is too old. My 2.5 yo just weaned and in some ways I feel he is still so little. (I gently encouraged it b/c I am pg and nursing was painful and I didn't think I wanted to tandem nurse).

I personally probably would have felt uncomfortable if it had continued past the age of 4-5 though if this pg hadn't happened.

But if someone else feels that is right for them and their child, so be it...

[Renrel]

I probably posted here before but I don't remember now.
Before I had my own child I though it very odd that two of my friends nursed their children way beyond a year. I remember assuming that for one child it had to do with him being very premature and thus mom being overly attatched in what I thought was a very normal matter given the possible loss of the child during his early months. I would never have thought I would be nursing a 3 yr old myself.

When I had my baby I had a goal of nursing to one year. I had to actually "trick" my child into nursing that long since he started to self wean around 10-11 mths when he learned to hold a bottle himself and was fasinated by the independance of that act. (We did relief bottles a few times a week if I remember correctly, maybe 1-2 cans of formula in the whole year, but most bottles were expressed milk.)

Then on DS birthday he got a stomach bug and started nursing in earnest again. From that point on he loved nursing. So I though, OK- 18 mths and we will see. We hit 18 mths and I said ok, 2 yrs. We hit 2 yrs and so on and so on. I got some comments from my Mom and DH was starting to feel as if the bond between DS and I was interfering with his ablity to bond with DS but none of that was very strong. I started to help DS to wean over time. At 3.5 we went on a vacation and since the schedule and setting were different DS forgot to ask to nurse his one session and then we were done.

I would probably find it odd to see/know of a 5-7 yr old still nursing but given that I felt the same way about 2 and 3 yr olds before I had one I don't think I can say it is wrong. It is just my personal bias based on my personal experiences and my cultural norm.

It probably helps that all the things they say you get from BF we have experienced. I know that it may or may not be the BFing, not everyone has our luck who bfs, but still I am impressed by what we have experienced. DS is rarely ill. He has been in full time center based daycare/preschool since age 1 (thus exposed to at least 20 or so other kids a day as the mix with other classes) and has missed not more than 2-3 days a year for illness. He recovers from bugs he does get within a day or two. He is unually bright. (At 3 he was already starting to spell out words by sound and understood the concept behind numbers). He is well bonded to me but easily seperates. He can spend up to a week with grandparents and not ask for me or DH once, but is thrilled to see us when we return. He is a good pretty good eater for a preschooler. Yeah, he does not eat most green vegs and freaks if there are specks in his food, but he does eat some of all kinds of foods and is more adventrous then most preschoolers I know. Oh, and I lost all of my pg weight and then some while bfing.

I should also confess that I started the extended nursing thread in the toddler forum, so I obviously have my biases.

[Kanga]

I weaned dd1 at 9 months because of becoming pregnant (producing less and less milk) and I'm still a little said about it. I had hoped that she would pick it up again after dd2 was born but so far she doesn't have much interest. I think she's a little confused as to exactly what she's supposed to do as sometimes when dd2 is nursing she'll lean in and look real close, actA like she wants to then shake her head and say no.

It's hard to say how long I will nurse dd2. Right now, I think i will probably encourage weaning around age 3, but I don't care if somebody else chooses to nurse past that. The oldest I've heard of a child nursing is 8 and that child had no plans on stopping any time soon.


It's pretty much unheard of to nurse much past a year in this part of the country. I don't think I've ever seen any NIP much past 7-8 months, but some women do it so discreetly that I may not have noticed. I'm sure I'll get comments as Camdyn's 1st birthday approaches, but I don't really plan on announcing it either really so I'm guessing by 1 1/2 -2 most people will assume I have weaned. I haven't talked to dh about it, so I don't know his feelings on the issue.

[EJH]

Hmm. DD is nursing and will be 2 next week. It's morning and night and whenever on the weekends. DP never thought she'd nurse this long (had planned on a year) but it's clear DD is not ready to wean. She asks for it. The ILs try to push her to stop but they visited recently and saw that DD really does demand it still. At this point, we're not ready to put the kabash on that and plan to let her nurse until she's ready to wean. We're always surprised she keeps going and going...as she's such a busy kid and we keep thinking that it must be so boring for her, but she still likes the comfort and all that jazz. I am guessing that if she's still nursing in a year though we'll gently encourage her weaning for DP's health (meds she's been off of for some chronic health things etc, but should think about going on again before TOO long...etc).

Anyway.

[Sarah]

Yeah, ITA with the PP, who said that how long I would nurse is different from how long others should. I admit I would be uncomfortable with seeing a kids nursing past 5-6ish, but that's my own hangup, as long as the kid and mom are happy and healthy. I nursed my DD1 for almost 3 years, and DD2 is 2 and going strong. I plan on weaning her between 2 and 3.

[tgr68]

I voted in the poll merely at what age I would feel uncomfortable nursing beyond (which was 3). I know a few people though who nursed their children until well past 4 though. I'm pretty much of a whatever floats your boat mentality.

I nursed DD until she was 4 months old. At that point she was starting to lose weight and MIL convinced DH that it was bad for me to continue nursing, so I lost the support of those around me. I am now pg with #2 and plan to nurse until a year. I'm hoping to be able to stand up to MIL (whose belief is that there are no benefits beyond 3 months of age no matter what medical support for nursing at least to a year that I show her) a lot more this time around.

[TracyDP]

Having spent time in a foreign country where it is pretty normal to see a child climb on his/her mothers lap, pull up her shirt, pull out her breast and help themselves...I think that's a little much. While I don't discount health benefits that might come from long term nursing, I think it's basically a comfort/habit thing for both mother and child since (and I'm assuming here) that they are not nursing for actual meals and eat regular food in addition to the breastmilk. I am due with my first baby in September and plan on breastfeeding for a minimum of one year, beyond that we'll have to see. I definitely will be weaning them before I become an after school snack though.

It's up to each parent to decide at what point they will draw the line (or if they will draw the line) and wean their child. That said, I'd still give kind of a sideways look at a women in the DMV who's child climbed in their lap, put their head in their shirt and helped themselves.

[Dan's*Girl]

I breastfed for several months and it didn't work out for several reasons, but if able to I would have done so until 1 year.

I personally think that once a child is on table food they are getting enough vitamins and nutrients that BF isnt necessary. Not to mention I have a cousin who breastfed until her son was 5 and it was disturbing to see him pull up her shirt, down her bra and just start sucking anywhere. Ugh.

[mel7dog]

I personally think that once a child is on table food they are getting enough vitamins and nutrients that BF isnt necessary.

I have to disagree with this. My DS has been on table foods since about 9m and eating a fairly good portion since he was a year old. Regardless of what he eats at the table, he still wants to nurse many times a day. BM contains many valuable nutrients at any age, hence why many people work hard to be sure their child gets enough cow's milk per day and Dr's stress this as well. Also with my DS they'll be 2-3 days a week when he doesn 't want to each much table food. Do I worry he's not getting enough to eat, enough vitamins, or nag him to finish his food, no. I never worry because I know his nursing is still giving him a great deal.

[Dan's*Girl]

. Regardless of what he eats at the table, he still wants to nurse many times a day. BM contains many valuable nutrients at any age, hence why many people work hard to be sure their child gets enough cow's milk per day and Dr's stress this as well.


It's ok that you disagree :)

About your comment above, I think he wants to nurse many times per day out of not only comfort but its what he is used to. My son wanted a bottle of formula at night because he expected it and it comforted him, but after a week of us weaning to water then nothing he no longer takes the bottle at night and is fine.
Also, cows milk has the same valuable nutrients and can be given in a sippy cup, so unless the child has a allergy to milk it just makes me think the nursing is for comfort and expectation by both the child and the mother.

Im not trying to rile any feathers, just expressing my personal thoughts.

[Niobe]

Also, cows milk has the same valuable nutrients and can be given in a sippy cup, so unless the child has a allergy to milk it just makes me think the nursing is for comfort and expectation by both the child and the mother.

Im not trying to rile any feathers, just expressing my personal thoughts.

While those might be your personal thoughts, they are factually incorrect. Cow milk has zero immune benefits, so it is simply not as beneficial to a child as breast milk.

I haven't had children yet, but plan to breastfeed future children for a bare minimum of two years, unless physically incapable for some reason. Probably three or four years, maybe even longer. I don't see any negative consequences to extended breastfeeding, and the benefits are extensive. :)

[alisong]

I personally think that once a child is on table food they are getting enough vitamins and nutrients that BF isnt necessary.Given that most babies begin solids at around 6 months, and I don't know a single doctor who would advise beginning whole milk at that point, I don't think it's accurate to say that BF (or formula) isn't necessary after a child starts solids.

[Irish Elf]

I don't know how long I will BF DD but I plan to pump forever. I like my girls this size. ;)

[dal]

I haven't had children yet, but plan to breastfeed future children for a bare minimum of two years, unless physically incapable for some reason. How will you handle it if your child self-weans or wants to self-wean prior to two years?

[Marisa]

I guess that would fall under the heading of "physically incapable"? :) (Chuckles to self imagining the physical challenge of 'forcing' a toddler to nurse...)

I "agree" with that philosophy, though, and if any future children I have decide to give up actual nursing before age 2, I will likely pump and offer them breastmilk in a sippy. I'd rather avoid going to cow's milk before age two (we have a history of dairy sensitivities in our family) and it's widely known that toddlers still need the fats and nutrition from whole milk several times a day. I happen to think it should come from me, rather than a cow. :)

[mel7dog]

I find this site very interesting when discussing natural weaning age

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detwean.html

[Wrighty26]

I have to agree with Renrel on feeling about BFing before having a child and after. Before my DS, I always thought I would stop at a year. I thought it was strange when people BF for longer than that -- mainly because most 1-year olds have teeth. After having DS, that DEFINITELY changed. I'm currently at 13.5 months and going strong. I'm not sure when I'm going to wean. I nurse DS 2-3 times a day (mainly morning and night) and on the weekends, whenever. My DS really loves to nurse. He has never showed any signs of wanting to wean. Besides the health benefits, I feel like kids grow up way too these days - so why rush it?

I can't say when I will stop. Right now I really can't see myself nursing past 2, but that's a long way off and I might change my mind.

As for naysayers (and there are definitely more than a few), I really don't discuss BFing with them. How is it any of their business anyways? It's between my boobs and my son - and it's not in any way hurting anyone. My DH supports me - and really that's all I care about! It's taken me a while to get to this point, but I know now that the health and well being of my son is far more important than others opinions.

[Delta]

Also, cows milk has the same valuable nutrients and can be given in a sippy cup, so unless the child has a allergy to milk it just makes me think the nursing is for comfort and expectation by both the child and the mother.

Dan'sGirl - I don't really care when you think it is appropriate for a baby to wean, but I do care a lot about the spread of misinformation about breastfeeding and human milk.

You claim that there are "the same valuable nutrients" in cow milk, but that is false. Human milk is not the same thing as cow milk. Particularly pasteurized cow milk that is robbed of nutrients and made harder to digest. Cow milk is made by nature for cows and human milk is made by nature for humans. When babies turn a year old they don't turn into cows. Human milk and the nutrients in it are much more digestible for the child. Cow milk contains much more casein that is hard on the digestive system. Cow milk is lower in iron than human milk and at that age iron is so important for development. And the antibodies that are present in human milk are not present at all in cow milk.

The balance of nutrients in breastmilk is perfect for humans and cow milk does not in fact have the "same valuable nutrients" and definitely does not have them in the balance that is provided in human milk.

http://www.unu.edu/unupress/food/8F174e/8F174E04.htm
http://www.thenewparentsguide.com/breastfeeding-diff-breast-cow-milk.htm

Just FYI. :)

[Kanga]

When babies turn a year old they don't turn into cows.

This made me LMAO!!

[bluebunny]

I'm all for child-led weaning as long as mom is comfortable with that. I nursed DS for 21 months and he absolutely did not want to stop. :( I weaned him because I was five months pregnant and nursing was too painful. I'm glad I nursed him for that long and hope to nurse DD at least until age 2.

I personally think that once a child is on table food they are getting enough vitamins and nutrients that BF isnt necessary.

Other people have already addressed this quote but I, too, wanted to point out that it isn't a matter of personal opinion. Babies need BM or formula for the majority of their nutrition at least until age one. Solid food before age one is supposed to be in addition to the nutrients they get from BM or formula. So, BM for a BF baby is absolutely necessary.

Also, the WHO (World Health Organization) encourages breastfeeding for at least the first two years. :)

About your comment above, I think he wants to nurse many times per day out of not only comfort but its what he is used to. My son wanted a bottle of formula at night because he expected it and it comforted him, but after a week of us weaning to water then nothing he no longer takes the bottle at night and is fine.


While it is true that a BF baby nurses for comfort (as well as for nutrition) because that is what he is used to, that does not mean that something is wrong with it. Just because you chose to wean your son from a bottle at a certain age does not mean that a BF mom should wean from BF at a certain age. BF does not have the same orthodontic problems that can be associated with bottle feeding at older ages.

ETA: What! You mean my son is not a calf?

[EJH]

Well said, Delta.

[Sarah]

Also, cows milk has the same valuable nutrients and can be given in a sippy cup, so unless the child has a allergy to milk it just makes me think the nursing is for comfort and expectation by both the child and the mother.Wrong.

As Delta said, I don't care how long or if you nurse, or if anyone else does, either. But don't say things which are completely false, either. Please see this link http://www.kellymom.com/bf/bfextended/ebf-benefits.html
* Human milk expressed by mothers who have been lactating for >1 year has significantly increased fat and energy contents, compared with milk expressed by women who have been lactating for shorter periods. During prolonged lactation, the fat energy contribution of breast milk to the infant diet might be significant."
-- Mandel 2005

* "Breast milk continues to provide substantial amounts of key nutrients well beyond the first year of life, especially protein, fat, and most vitamins."
-- Dewey 2001

* In the second year (12-23 months), 448 mL of breastmilk provides:
o 29% of energy requirements
o 43% of protein requirements
o 36% of calcium requirements
o 75% of vitamin A requirements
o 76% of folate requirements
o 94% of vitamin B12 requirements
o 60% of vitamin C requirements
for more info. Whether you nursed or didn't, or whether anyone else chooses to do so is their business, but don't try to minimize the general importance of BFing, please.

And your attitude towards that kid is rude. My DD is 2, and I would be hurt and incredibly sad if someone reacted with a 'UGH!" to my nursing her. It may not be your cup of tea (nursing a 5 year old might make me uncomfortable, too) but you don't have to be rude or judgmental about it.
ETA- * The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that "Breastfeeding should be continued for at least the first year of life and beyond for as long as mutually desired by mother and child... Increased duration of breastfeeding confers significant health and developmental benefits for the child and the mother... There is no upper limit to the duration of breastfeeding and no evidence of psychologic or developmental harm from breastfeeding into the third year of life or longer." (AAP 2005)

* The American Academy of Family Physicians recommends that breastfeeding continue throughout the first year of life and that "Breastfeeding beyond the first year offers considerable benefits to both mother and child, and should continue as long as mutually desired." They also note that "If the child is younger than two years of age, the child is at increased risk of illness if weaned." (AAFP 2001)

* A US Surgeon General has stated that it is a lucky baby who continues to nurse until age two. (Novello 1990)

* The World Health Organization emphasizes the importance of nursing up to two years of age or beyond (WHO 1992, WHO 2002).

* Scientific research by Katherine A. Dettwyler, PhD shows that 2.5 to 7.0 years of nursing is what our children have been designed to expect (Dettwyler 1995).

[scorpioanne]

It's ok that you disagree :)

About your comment above, I think he wants to nurse many times per day out of not only comfort but its what he is used to. My son wanted a bottle of formula at night because he expected it and it comforted him, but after a week of us weaning to water then nothing he no longer takes the bottle at night and is fine.
Also, cows milk has the same valuable nutrients and can be given in a sippy cup, so unless the child has a allergy to milk it just makes me think the nursing is for comfort and expectation by both the child and the mother.

Im not trying to rile any feathers, just expressing my personal thoughts.

If these are your personal thoughts/opinions you should not pass them off as facts. Breast is best for babies.

[Purple]

I am always amazed when someone mentions milk made for a calf as being better for a human baby, when breastmilk is available. :confused:

[Kanga]

I am always amazed when someone mentions milk made for a calf as being better for a human baby, when breastmilk is available. :confused:

I think people just plain forget where their milk comes from. Thanks to delta, next time anyone asks me when I'm going to wean dd2 to cow's milk I'm going to have to tell them she isn't a baby cow. I can't wait to see their face, lol.

[cosmic]

Wow. It STUNNED me to hear someone say that cow's milk has the same nutrients as breastmilk...lol. I thought it was common knowledge that it most certainly doesn't. Cow's milk is made for the development of baby cows. Human milk is made for digestive systems and development of human babies. In fact, I'm iffy on switching DS to cow's milk next month when he's 1 year old. I don't even drink cow's milk. So I'm looking for alternatives for DS. Plus, he's been so incredibly healthy on BM- no colds, ear infections, nada.

[Niobe]

How will you handle it if your child self-weans or wants to self-wean prior to two years?

if any future children I have decide to give up actual nursing before age 2, I will likely pump and offer them breastmilk in a sippy. I'd rather avoid going to cow's milk before age two (we have a history of dairy sensitivities in our family) and it's widely known that toddlers still need the fats and nutrition from whole milk several times a day. I happen to think it should come from me, rather than a cow. :)

What she said (right down to the dairy sensitivities).

It's really illogical, if you think about it, that mothers are forced to defend their decision to provide their child with the superior nutritional option. When else are you questioned for making the better choice?

[mel7dog]

It's upsetting how much misinformation and lack of education there is on BFing and extended nursing. I think many people don't realize that if you stop BFing at a year, you have to give cow's milk to replace the BM and we all know it's not nearly as good. Most of the people I know am surprised to hear I hope to nurse DS till age 2 at least. Then when I explain that BM is better than cow's, made for babies, the WHO recommendation or 2y min, etc. they sometimes start to understand. But still in a society where it is not the norm to nurse past 6 month :mad:, nevermind a year, many people still think it's weird. Look at the # of people in the poll who think age 2 (or even 1!) is too long to nurse :confused: even though all the facts show otherwise. The few moms I know who do make it to a year nursing have all started weaning at a year with no real explanation why.

[Dan's*Girl]

Thank you to everyone who expressed their opinion on my opinion as well as correcting me on my information.

I do realize that breast milk is best for babies. I was not able to breast feed past two months but if I had been I would not have past one year. My son is not unhealthy and gets pleanty of nutrients now on cows milk and table food. What works for me and my son obviously may not work or be the choice of others. :)

[pocahontas]

I guess that would fall under the heading of "physically incapable"? :) (Chuckles to self imagining the physical challenge of 'forcing' a toddler to nurse...)

Well, I'm not so sure because after reading some of these threads women get traumatized because there child is trying to wean (yet these are the same ones who believe in CHILD-LED weaning) and I've seen some actually try to trick their child back onto the breast when they are clearly uninterested it has made me think about many of the that maybe breastfeeding became MORE about mommy's emotional needs than the child's nutritional needs. So I might not put physically forcing past a few of 'em. But I digress...

Now that I am pregnant my views on breastfeeding have changed a tad I will admit...but not drastically. I would breastfeed until age 2. Beyond that, I would be pretty uncomfortable which I'll elaborate on below...


I don't think I've ever seen any NIP much past 7-8 months, but some women do it so discreetly that I may not have noticed. I need to move to where YOU live! :) The other day I was grocery shopping and a lady had a whining toddler with her. So she stopped in the middle of the produce section whipped out a boob and picked the kid up to nurse. (just want I wanna see at 10 o'clock on a Sunday morning while tryna pick out my tomatoes). :rolleyes: Now I suppose this is normal to some people (because in actuality the first thing I thought of when I witnessed this was...I wonder if she's from CC because I know some CC'ers who would probably do this. lol) :D But again, now that I am pregnant and see things in a different light I simply cannot fathom doing this myself. Maybe my mother just taught me a little more modesty than bearing my breasts in public places...maybe I'm just ultra conservative (although I doubt that), but I just entered my second trimester and I'm already eyeing "Hootie Hiders" and other cute little things on that Bebe au Lait website to carry in the diaper bag with me for DISCREET NIP because whipping boobs out for the world to see me nurse my child is just a foreign concept to me I suppose (and completely unnecessary with all the items on the market available for this purpose, IMHO.)

Before I had kids or was really reading anything about motherhood or ttc or anything along those lines, I thought that if a child had teeth, could ask for it, etc it was too old.
I totally feel like this except inserting the words "before I got pregnant". I still don't want to walk around with a 2 year old who can walk right up to me, sit on my lap, pull up my shirt and grab a boob, but can still see the importance of breastmilk and would (as one of the PP said) pump as long as I can and give it to my child in a sippy cup.

Not to mention I have a cousin who breastfed until her son was 5 and it was disturbing to see him pull up her shirt, down her bra and just start sucking anywhere. Ugh.And this is why I said what I just wrote above. That is my fear and something I never want to experience with any 5 year old of my own.

[Marisa]

pocahontas -- I certainly don't want to sound smug, as if you don't have a right to your current opinion. You absolutely do. That said, I do want to prepare you for the fact that you *may* change your mind a little once your baby is actually here. Believe it or not, before my son was born, I was a BFing advocate for sure, but I told my husband that I'd nurse till a year, and see how it went. I don't remember how I felt about NIP. But once I went through labor, the whole entire universe saw my vajayjay (AND my internal organs, too, since I had a c-section after 20 hours of natural labor) -- frankly it didn't seem like such a big deal anymore that I nursed in front of other people. I don't think what I've done would be considered 'whipping it out', I'm still somewhat modest, but maybe someone else would see it differently.

Well, I'm not so sure because after reading some of these threads women get traumatized because there child is trying to wean (yet these are the same ones who believe in CHILD-LED weaning) and I've seen some actually try to trick their child back onto the breast when they are clearly uninterested it has made me think about many of the that maybe breastfeeding became MORE about mommy's emotional needs than the child's nutritional needs. So I might not put physically forcing past a few of 'em. But I digress...

As for mothers trying to keep their babies nursing when the child is appearing to wean -- before a year, the baby can usually be coaxed back to the breast, and the 'weaning' is probably a 'nursing strike' caused by something in the child's environment or development -- new skills, new teeth, illness, etc. Even after a year, many toddlers get very busy and don't want to take the time to nurse. However, as many posters pointed out, they still need whole milk throughout their second year, and human milk would be better for them than cow's milk. You're right, it's likely convenient for the mom to continue to nurse rather than pump and give breastmilk in a sippy -- but it's not just about her -- that milk will be more healthy for her baby than if she decided to wean to cow's milk as well. Physically forcing would be the absolute worst thing to do in case of a nursing strike, btw -- it would suck to have the baby associate nursing with something unpleasant -- much harder on both mom and baby -- better to try nursing at soothing, quiet times like naptime and bedtime (many toddlers will only nurse 2-3 times a day anyway, at wakeup, nap and bedtime).

[mel7dog]

pocahontas - I think pretty much all new moms start off trying to hide themsleves away under a blanket while BFing. I used to be scared of NIP and would go out of my way to not have to do so. BUT as DS grew older he refused to be covered up, as do many older babies. By 5m, I no longer used a nursing cover because my DS would tear it off or get super sweaty. I got to the point where I decided it was ridiculous to spend my time worrying about having to NIP when a mom could bottle feed anywhere without anyone looking twice. I think after a while you don't care as much about being modest especially when you learn to be so discreet no one can see anything anyways.

As for the lady nursing in the grochery store, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Would you rather listen to a baby/toddler screaming beacuse they are hungry? Should the woman have left all her grocheries and gone to the car? Sometimes it's easy to judge others until you have been in the situation yourself.

[Smittenk]

I am finding this thread really interesting. As a woman who once squirmed at the thought of breastfeeding, I am now a new mother who is thoroughly enjoying the breastfeeding relationship with DS!
My original goal was 4 weeks and now we are almost at 8 weeks and I have no intention of stopping at the moment.

I do have a question just out of pure curiousity for those of you who have nursed two children or nursed while pregnant: I assume the milk would turn back into colostrum for the 2nd baby, so how is this beneficial for say, a 2 year old? Or would you just nurse the new baby until the milk came in? And if the milk is designed for the baby...then would it be providing enough fat and nutrients for a 2 year old?

Sorry if those questions sound dumb..I have always just wanted to know and now that I am a breastfeeding mother I am even more interested.

[Marisa]

I do have a question just out of pure curiousity for those of you who have nursed two children or nursed while pregnant: I assume the milk would turn back into colostrum for the 2nd baby, so how is this beneficial for say, a 2 year old? Or would you just nurse the new baby until the milk came in? And if the milk is designed for the baby...then would it be providing enough fat and nutrients for a 2 year old?

The milk will stay "regular" for most of the pregnancy, only changing back into colostrum anywhere from the middle of the second trimester to closer to the end of the third trimester. Even then, though, there's no reason why colostrum would be bad for the older baby. Colostrum has the same kinds of nutrients as the milk, only concentrated -- it might be nice for the toddler to get a boost of antibodies and all for a short while.

Many women do find that they don't have as much milk during a pregnancy, and many toddlers will shy away from the change in taste as the milk goes back to colostrum, so sometimes a pregnancy is a factor in weaning. Occasionally if mom is open to it, the older infant will be interested in nursing again after the new baby is born, even after stopping for a while during the pregnancy.

If I were counseling a mom who was still nursing a 2-yr-old and was late in her pregnancy, I might suggest that she be careful about other parts of her toddler's diet to be sure that they are getting plenty of other good sources of fats, etc. Not because the milk itself would be inappropriate for a toddler, but more because there might not be as much milk late in pregnancy, or the toddler may abruptly start to refuse it due to the change in taste. At that point I think it would qualify as one of those 'physically impossible' situations that would warrant an alternative source of nutrition.

If you have any interest in tandem nursing (or nursing while pregnant), there's a good, fairly current book called Adventures in Tandem Nursing by Hilary Flower. If your local library doesn't have it, likely they can find it for you through interlibrary loan.

[mel7dog]

Thanks for that info Marisa! I was curious about the whole situation, but haven't had chance to start reading yet. I do have that book though :)

[Renrel]

Pocahontas - I am a mom who confesses to "tricking" my son into continuing to nurse when he appeared to be weaning before a year. Just so you understand what I mean by "tricking" and my reasoning for doing it- tricking was nursing him for about 3-5 minutes each morning when he was too groggy with sleep to protest, thus keeping my milk in production when and if he changed his mind and assuring he got some of the benefits of BM for all of his first year. The rest of the day he had no interest and I gave him bottles of either BM or formula. I did not force him. This "tricking" was probably less forceful then when he went on a bottle strike around 4-5 mths and for weeks we would try to "trick" him into taking a bottle so that I could continue to have a break now and then. For that I would nurse and then do a bait and switch to get him to take just an ounce or two of BM from a bottle.

My reasoning for "tricking" DS was that the medical recommendation was to nurse for at least one year, BM was the best source of nutrition for my baby and I wanted to make sure I gave him all the immunity benefits. I was dead set on nursing for one year, beyond that I did not know. I assumed we would wean given DS attitude the last month or so of that year and I was OK with that.

Some of the extended nursing was about me, I will admit to that. I took great pride in the fact that I supplied nearly all of DS nutrition for the first 4-5 months of his life, as well as in uterio. I am proud that I nursed as long as I did. It made me feel very strong and powerful and it helped me feel like I was a good mother. I am not saying I think Moms who don't nurse past a year are not good mothers or that I am a better mother but that every mom has some things she does that make her feel like she is doing a pretty good job and nursing was one of those things for me. For others it might be staying at home or hiring a first rate Nanny, or being really great at teaching discipline. And I enjoyed the way bf burned calories. I weighed less a few month postpartum then I did before DS was born and I was not watching what I ate. That was a great benefit to me. I have missed it as I gained almost 10 pound of the last 6 mths since he weaned. I am told that my risk of Breast Cancer may be lessened which also makes me happy. And of course I liked the closeness that has developed between DS and I. But believe me, regardless of what I wanted or needed, there is no way I would have managed to nurse my son till 3.5 if he was not interested. It is a team effort.

And for what it is worth, I also felt trapped at times by BFing. It was not all dreamy. The inablity to go away without DS for more than one night for over three years was hard on my marrage, the fact that I was always the one to get up with DS in the middle of the night because I could calm him quickly by nursing was frustating and tiring. And I soooo wanted to wear an regular bra again and a one piece dress. Silly as it may sound, I think when I finally weaned the one piece dress thing was my favorite part.

Anyway, I just wanted to make sure you had the full picture. You may still think it was all about me and that is OK, so long as your opinion is based on what I really meant by "tricking" and not something more intense than it was. Maybe DS was meant to wean at 10 mths and I messed with nature. I will never know and more than a Mom who lets their child wean before one year will know what could have been. Maybe each of our children would be absolutely the same as they are regardless of the choice we made.

[pocahontas]

pocahontas -- I certainly don't want to sound smug, as if you don't have a right to your current opinion. You absolutely do. That said, I do want to prepare you for the fact that you *may* change your mind a little once your baby is actually here.

I will NEVER say NEVER. I learned that lesson early on. So I totally agree that I may think completely differently 6 months from now.



As for the lady nursing in the grochery store, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Would you rather listen to a baby/toddler screaming beacuse they are hungry? Should the woman have left all her grocheries and gone to the car? Sometimes it's easy to judge others until you have been in the situation yourself.
Actually, the child wasn't screaming at all hence didn't appear to be "starving" (which was evidenced by the fact that after 3 minutes literally she was fussing to be put down.) So I think she was just having a moment of "brattiness" (if that's even a word) to have her mother's undivided attention and her mother gave in. Her mother was on her way to the line to pay for her groceries after the quick stop in the produce section. So she would have been out of the store in 5 minutes anyway as lines are at a minimum on a Sunday morning. I don't think she was hungry enough that she couldn't have lasted the 5 minutes (again, it seems she just wanted to have her way for those 3 minutes and then was squirming to be let down.)

[Kanga]

(which was evidenced by the fact that after 3 minutes literally she was fussing to be put down.)

Most toddler's attention spans don't last longer than 3 minutes for anything. From what I understand, 3 minutes is probably about average after the first year for a nursing session as they are usually nursing for comfort/boredom than hunger.

[Delaney21]

(which was evidenced by the fact that after 3 minutes literally she was fussing to be put down.)

Most toddler's attention spans don't last longer than 3 minutes for anything. From what I understand, 3 minutes is probably about average after the first year for a nursing session as they are usually nursing for comfort/boredom than hunger.

At 6 months old my DS wasn't eating for more than 3 minutes at a time.

[goldengbridge]

I don't know about you ladies who are nursing but I've found that the people who have the biggest problems with nursing and/or nursing in public are the people who didn't or could do it. Thats been my experience anyway. That being said I'm nursing my 6 month old and I have no plans on stopping and I honestly don't care who thinks its innapropriate or weird of whatever. If my DD is hungry when we're out and about I feed her. Formula fed moms get no slack for whipping out a bottle and feeding it to their babes when its simple that breast is best. BFing moms are doing the best possible thing for their babies and they shouldn't feel bad about that just becuase it makes others uncomfortable! Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'm just glad that I decide whats best for me daughter, and not anyone else. After all its between me, my DD, and my BBs.

[Wrighty26]

Well said Renrel and goldengbridge!

[amygrrl]

goldengbridge

congrats on making it this far with the breastfeeding!!! but i have to respectfully disagree with this statement Formula fed moms get no slack for whipping out a bottle and feeding it to their babes when its simple that breast is best. i think it all depends on where you live, who you hang out with, what the norm is in your area. my DD was exclusively on expressed BM for 6 months and then when pumping became too taxing, a combination of frozen BM and formula until a year. i can tell you that i did get a TON of flack on many different occasions during that first 9 months or so (dd has a lot of hair so people always assume she's older than she is so it seemed to decrease at that point) when i whipped out an bottle (either of BM or formula) in public. lots of dirty looks. several women approached me to tell me breast is best. when that happened i felt forced to explain our specific health issues and that yes, she was getting BM, etc which totally pissed me off. and even when i did explain our situation, one lady proceeded to explain to me how even my EBM was 'inferior' to having my dd take it from the breast. just what someone wants to hear after they've spent 5 months pumping 8+ times a day.

anyway, i say this just to add that judgement is equally spread across all camps on this and most every other mothering issue. it's a shame really. where i live now, i am considered pretty 'non-granola' and traditional when it comes to parenting... certainly, i'm not green/ pc enough for a lot of people here. ( i don't CD, i couldn't breastfeed, i'll probably circ if i ever have a boy, we aren't vegetarians, etc) but my family and childhood friends are all from texas and they consider me a raging liberal and tree hugger because i DID pump for so long, we try to do organic, we recycle religiously, we taught DD sign language, we use chlorine free diapers, we threw out all the dr brown's bottles when the plastic warnings came out, we are on the no TV kick until dd is 2, etc.

anyway, blanket statements that make it seem like bottle fed babies are never judged just really annoy me b/c i've found that in my experience (and the experience of many others) that's just not the case.

Unfortunately, there's no shortage on either side of the fence on any mothering issue of 'well meaning' people interested in 'informing' you of how what you are doing isn't really the best thing for you or your kid and how superior their way is.

[risa00]

anyway, i say this just to add that judgement is equally spread across all camps on this and most every other mothering issue. it's a shame really. where i live now, i am considered pretty 'non-granola' and traditional when it comes to parenting... certainly, i'm not green/ pc enough for a lot of people here. ( i don't CD, i couldn't breastfeed, i'll probably circ if i ever have a boy, we aren't vegetarians, etc) but my family and childhood friends are all from texas and they consider me a raging liberal and tree hugger because i DID pump for so long, we try to do organic, we recycle religiously, we taught DD sign language, we use chlorine free diapers, we threw out all the dr brown's bottles when the plastic warnings came out, we are on the no TV kick until dd is 2, etc.


How freaky! If I didn't know better, I could have written this exact statement. My family is also in Texas and everything you wrote is how we are doing as well.

[maybebaby]

[deleted

[goldengbridge]

Maybebaby and Amy- I too pumped for the first 6 months of my son's life. He had heart surgery and because of his heart problems I needed to measure exactly how much he was eating. I never got so much as a glance when I fed him a bottle. I get so much slack when I feed my daughter just because I'm nursing her. So, I personally haven't experienced that or know of anyone who criticizes people because they formula feed. All the criticism I constantly hear is about woman who nurse and I just don't get it.

[amygrrl]

goldengbridge - again, i would suggest that this is because of where you live. my husband is from PA and it is not known as a hotbed of liberal parenting practices. on the other hand, where we live, is... thus the difference in experience. just because i live somewhere where criticism is high for bottle feeders doesn't mean breast feeders aren't on the receiving end of criticism in other areas. likewise, just because you live in an area where there's criticism for breast feeders doesn’t mean bottle feeders aren't snarked at in other areas. i would also argue that you are less likely to hear about criticism of bottle feeders b/c there's no organized group of bottle feeding moms who meets regularly just to discuss how to promote bottle feeding. it's not seen as a 'mission' as breastfeeding is. but again, i think it's short sited and naive to think that if you personally weren't criticized then no bottle feeder has been. heck, i've been snarked at right here on this board and told that my pumped BM was inferior.

and do you really think any of your breast feeding friends would even *admit* to snarking at a bottle feeder? do you seriously believe that they would come to you and say 'yeah, i gave someone a dirty look today! go me!'. would they consider going up to a stranger and saying 'you know, breast is best' a criticism or would they think they were just 'educating' someone? i'm not trying to be snarky here, i just think there's a HUGE jump in logic from 'i've never been snarked at for it and i don't *think* my friends do' to ....

Formula fed moms get no slack for whipping out a bottle and feeding it to their babes when its simple that breast is best

the point i'm trying to make is that no one mothering group (breast feeders v. bottle feeders, cloth v. disposies, attachment parenting v. non-attachment parenting, etc.) has the market on being the 'put upon' group. it's unfortunate, but true. imho, we (the collective community of parents) all spend WAY too much time trying to make sure that every other parent has the same 'best' information about all these topics because 'surely' if they just were informed like us, well they'd make the same choices as us. and in the process, we (the collective community of parents) come off as condescending and smug, we push too hard, we make other parents feel like crap for not following our choices, whatever they may be, and in general, we make competitive parenting a sport.

[ysolde]

I have no children, and I have no idea. I imagine that, for me, it will have a lot to do with the constraints of my job. We have great on-site day care, but I don't think it is guaranteed beyond 1 year, so that will probably be my cut-off, for practical reasons.

[SiValleySteph]

We have great on-site day care, but I don't think it is guaranteed beyond 1 year, so that will probably be my cut-off, for practical reasons.

You never know. I WOH and stomped pumping just short of 1 year. Even though I no longer gave DS EBM during work hours, he continued to nurse outside work time. I thought I would just see what happens and it turns out he is still nursing first thing in the morning and he will be 3 next month.

**

FWIW, my son nurses and he is almost 3. BUT, I assure you that he has never lifted my shirt up, going underneath, and latched on, even at home. Certainly not at the supermarket! :D I'm sure those moms are atypical of extended breastfeeders and most are either very discreete (so you don't notice them) or only nurse at home past a certain age/comfort level.

Also, amygrrl, I'm very sorry you had to deal with those rude people. WTH? Why on earth would someone approach someone who is bottle feeding and say breast is best? Obviously, at that point, the mom had already made feeding decisions. :confused: And anyways, why would anyone approach some random person in the first place? Very strange. Anyways, pumping is so difficult. I have the utmost respect for any mother who pumps BM for their DC.

FWIW, I live in the same general area and never got any comments while breast or bottle feeding. Thank goodness! Sorry to those of you who have to experience that either way!

[goldengbridge]

i think it's short sited and naive to think that if you personally weren't criticized then no bottle feeder has been.

You totally blew my post outta proportion. I knew I should have never even said anything. I knew someone would find a way to twist it around. I guess you missed in my first post that I said that I respect everyone's decision in whatever they do. And FWIW, ALL of my friends and family bottle feed so yes I know for a fact that the people around me wouldn't snark at someone bottle feeding. I'm definately the minority in my area.

Anyway, like I said before I'm glad I make the decison for my baby and for me. You make your own decision and you really shouldn't care what anyone else thinks. That doesn't mean I don't respect others decision like I said before. To each there own. I don't feel like I need to argue and defend my decision. This was never made to be a debate between Bfing and bottle feeding.

[amygrrl]

goldengbridge - it's not that i think you personally don't respect my decision. it's that you made a blanket statement that bottle feeders are never criticized which just isn't true. and then when i and another poster pointed out that it wasn't really the case and that a lot depends on the prevailing trends where you live, you didn't acknowledge that yeah, us bottle feeders might be subjected to criticism as well but instead, tried to defend your orginal position that only breastfeeders face criticism. the heart of the issue isn't whether or not you agree with our choices... it's whether or not you acknowledge that people are just as critical of our choice and that perhaps you really overstated yourself in your orginal claim.

if it bugs you for people to be critical of your choice to continue to breastfeed and to state as much to your face, you can imagine that in my area (and there many areas in the us like this) where breastfeeding is the norm, when someone approaches me and is critical of my decision, i'm just as ticked off. and no, i don't get it either... that's my entire point. i don't get why breastfeeders feel comfortable being critical of bottle feeders and i don't get why bottle feeders feel comfortable being critical of breastfeeders. if we all assume that we are all making the best choice we can for our kids, why would ANYONE on either side of the fence of any of these issues feel the need to 'educate' anyone else given that none of us knows the individual context for which a particular decision was made.

[amygrrl]

SiValleySteph - thanks! i'm hoping and praying that i don't have to EP with this next one due in october! i think my experience in our area just goes to show you that the 'criticism' runs both ways and in many ways it's kind of luck of draw. i mean if you bottlefeed and everyone of your friends and family members breastfeeds, you can expect some snarky comments. the same is true for the reverse. we just happen to live in an area where liberal parenting ideologies seem to be the norm.

one day, maybe i'll be granola enough for this damn city!!! ;)

[pocahontas]

From what I understand, 3 minutes is probably about average after the first year for a nursing session as they are usually nursing for comfort/boredom than hunger.Exactly what I was thinking while watching this little girl whine. She certainly wasn't "starving". She was just bored and needed some attention. But since she wasn't hungry I'm like...couldn't the attention that she was given been something other than a breast?! :confused: But whatever...who knows.

pocahontas, I also think it's possible to nurse very discreetly and modestly, if that's your preference... don't forget about places like the mother's lounge at Nordstroms!And that's exactly where I'll be. I guess I will just remain the conservative modest about my boobs chick that I am. :D



FWIW, my son nurses and he is almost 3. BUT, I assure you that he has never lifted my shirt up, going underneath, and latched on, even at home. Certainly not at the supermarket! :D I'm sure those moms are atypical of extended breastfeeders and most are either very discreete (so you don't notice them) or only nurse at home past a certain age/comfort level.
As I told a PP...I am totally moving to wherever YOU are because something tells me that women like the one I encountered are not so ATYPICAL where I am (well, I guess it doesn't help that I was in a place like Whole Foods. LOL!! :o)

[Delta]

It's become such a hot issue that the few times that I bottlefed my first baby in public I wanted to write on the bottle - "BREASTMILK". ;)

So I do agree that you are darned if you do and darned if you don't. I'll admit that I get annoyed when I see moms breastfeeding behind big contraptions like hooter hiders. It makes nursing look so complicated to others.

I will say, however, that bottlefeeders never have to worry about being asked by ignorant people to leave someplace or cover up - and that is actually a big reason some moms quit nursing. (I can find the study if someone wants it.)

[jennylou]

I'm visiting family and am getting tons of comments about BFing DD (who just turned a year this month). One cousin asked me if I was planning on having to go to school with her. :rolleyes: I replied that I wasn't sure, but I was totally planning on weaning by college - I couldn't do any frat parties at that age. :p She dropped the issuse. ;)

I wouldn't dream of making a comment to a bottle feeder, but I've gotten tons of comments from others. I just let it roll off of me - sometimes I give a snarky comment back, sometimes sarcastic. I'm not sure how long we'll go, but that's not really open for discussion between anyone but me and DH.

But, I will admit that there are lots of times that I use the hooter hider. Sometimes, DD whips it away from her, but I use it in situations where I know that some people might be uncomfortable (especially large groups - like at a wake). My hope is that by using it those same anit BFing folks can't say "can you believe she just whipped out the tit like that" and will have a more positive* story to share instead.

*And by positive, I just mean they won't be able to use the "she whipped the boob out" line.

[Delta]

I absolutely understand where you are coming from, Jennylou. :)

However, my thinking is that things like that (hoot hiders) give other people (misguided) reasons to tell people like me, who only use their shirt, to cover up with something. (Like the nursing rooms - just because they are there doesn't mean you have to use them but others may not understand that.) But on the other hand, I say whatever makes moms more comfortable and the kids gets nursed. So, really I hold two conflicting arguments in my head.

[jennylou]

I absolutely understand where you are coming from, Jennylou. :)

However, my thinking is that things like that (hoot hiders) give other people (misguided) reasons to tell people like me, who only use their shirt, to cover up with something. (Like the nursing rooms - just because they are there doesn't mean you have to use them but others may not understand that.) But on the other hand, I say whatever makes moms more comfortable and the kids gets nursed. So, really I hold two conflicting arguments in my head.


LOL, oh there are lots of times I don't use it too. :) It's usually large groups - probably because I don't want to have the looks, kwim? Oh, and on airplanes before take off or if we have a stop over (not getting off of the plane) - I do admit to being slightly afraid of getting kicked off a plane. I'd raise holy hell, for sure later - but wouldn't want to go through it at the time, kwim?

[bamboo]

I just always feel sorry for the moms I see using the Hooter Hider things. They never look comfortable, and I wish they could feel confident enough with what they are doing to do it without a big weird-looking shield in front of them (than in my experience only draws much more attention to what they are doing). Generally the moms I see with those sorts of things (or using blankets), have much younger babies and generally seem sort of uncomfortable and nervous about it and I always hope that they gain confidence as their nursing relationship continues.

DD is 2.25, and is still nursing. She rarely nurses in public anymore, only if she gets hurt and I want to comfort her quickly. She nurses for a variety of reasons- food, comfort, closeness, etc. I breastfeed for a variety of reasons as well- my health, her health, closeness, etc. I don't think there's anything wrong with both enjoying benefits from nursing, and right now I'm happy to continue until she's ready to wean. I'm pregnant, so I am curious to see what happens as my milk production changes.

As long as DD was interested in nursing in public (up till around age 2 or so), I was happy to do it, and I always hoped I was helping to normalize EN by doing it. I think anyone would be hard pressed to describe it as "whipping out her boob" if they saw me nurse DD.

I've definitely gotten more questions as DD has gotten older (much more since I got pregnant- most people have assumed that I'd have to wean to get pregnant, or that I have to wean by some point in my pregnancy, and are surpirsed to learn neither is true).

[Tonysweetie]

I think that a child should wean him/herself as long as Mom and child are happy that is all that matters.

I am currently in the process of trying to re lactate and breast feed my son. When I BF when he was a newborn I would NEVER nurse in public. I was so afraid about being modest, people looking at me etc. Now, I could CARE LESS! If you don't like it, don't look. Now, I'm not going to flash myself in the middle of the mall but I'm also not going to go hide in a room to feed my son either. Breastfeeding is natural, that is how it's suspose to be so what is wrong with that??

[goldengbridge]

it's whether or not you acknowledge that people are just as critical of our choice and that perhaps you really overstated yourself in your orginal claim.


I never said that either. I simply said that I haven't encountered any criticism, I didn't say that it DOESNT happen. But anyway like I said before I'm taking myself out of this discussion because my words keep getting twisted around and Im tired of repeating myself.

ETA- Tonysweetie- Big props to you for trying to relactate, just wanted to say thats awesome!

[mel7dog]

I can see how bottle feeding moms can be criticzed and I do agree it depends on where you live. Where I live, I am seen as a freak for BFing and always get strange looks when NIP. I agree that the weird looks can go both ways, but I still think it's harder being a nursing mom in public. A bottle feeding mom never has to worry about being kicked off a plane, asked to leave a store, etc. Every single time I NIP I can't help, but think "what if someone approached me now, what would I say, would I stay calm?" And FWIW I consider myself a confident nurser. Bottle feeding moms may get dirty looks or comments (which btw is so rude!) but they never have to worry about being kicked out of somewhere, sadly it happens all the time.

[gizzyntaz]

I agree with goldengbridge's sentiment in regards to NIP. Women who use bottles to feed their babies when they are out do not have to worry about laws protecting their right to feed their baby when and where they choose to. They don't have to be worried about uninformed employees asking them to "do that" in a restroom or cover up with a blanket.

I'm sure there are rude people who will make unwarranted comments to bottle feeders as there are rude people who will make unwarranted comments to breast feeders. Those people are just rude and don't know how to MTOB.

I nursed DS in public freely until he was about 2. I was lucky to never have more than a few "looks" thrown my direction (which I admit, I might have misinterpreted). After 2 he nursed less frequently in general (I became pregnant) and my comfort level went down because I don't want a confrontation. I will still nurse him in my home freely, even if we have company. I am proud to still be nursing him, and I do think that I have a responsibility to do my part to pave the way for future moms. After all, it won't seem so "weird" to people if it becomes the norm.

Lots of people probably wonder why I still BF my son. I've been openly harassed by a mom in my playgroup for still nursing him while pregnant when I was pretty sure my milk supply was all but gone (I've got colostrum now - and his nursing has picked back up). I have never considered nursing to be a purely nutritional activity, as it seems many people do. You cannot equate nursing with formula because one is solely for nutrition and one encompasses many other things. I never scheduled DS's feedings or restricted them while he was younger - he was able to nurse for thirst, hunger, tiredness, comfort, stability - whatever. Of course the mom gets something out of the relationship! I get numerous health benefits and a great relationship with my child. I have one extra tool in my parenting toolbox. But I find it hard to hear people say things like, "after a certain point it's all about the mother, and her feelings/needs..." because it screams of ignorance.

I, like SiValleySteph, would NEVER allow my child to lift my shirt and just latch on whenever he feels like. It would bother me to see that in public because it would speak loads about a child who was not being taught limits. My son and I have clearly defined rules about our nursing relationship. If he doesn't respect those rules and my boundaries, he will not be nursing anymore. Lucky for me, he respects the relationship enough to follow the rules...

Jennylou's comment early in the thread about her previous feelings regarding nursing made me chuckle. When I was pregnant with my son my Dad (expert of all experts) told me that you wean a child when they get teeth, because after that, "it's a whole different story." HA! If I had weaned my son when he got teeth, he would have been weaned before 3 months old!

[Niobe]

I, like SiValleySteph, would NEVER allow my child to lift my shirt and just latch on whenever he feels like. It would bother me to see that in public because it would speak loads about a child who was not being taught limits.

This is a good point. 3 year olds shouldn't be making their own meal decisions, whether it's breastmilk or table food, should they? I wouldn't expect a 3 year old to be allowed to walk over to the fridge, open it, and grab what they wanted to eat out of it either.

[EJH]

I, like SiValleySteph, would NEVER allow my child to lift my shirt and just latch on whenever he feels like. It would bother me to see that in public because it would speak loads about a child who was not being taught limits. My son and I have clearly defined rules about our nursing relationship. If he doesn't respect those rules and my boundaries, he will not be nursing anymore. Lucky for me, he respects the relationship enough to follow the rules...

Exactly. DD is not permitted to just seek out DP, lift her shirt and latch on when we're out and about. She really doesn't look to nurse ever when we're not home these days (she'll be 2 tomorrow).

I love what you said, Gizzy, about it being another tool in the parenting box. It's true. It's another way for DP to comfort her, and hey, it works. I don't have the ability but have worked out other ways to comfort her.

[Sarah]

my DD was exclusively on expressed BM for 6 months and then when pumping became too taxing, a combination of frozen BM and formula until a year.
Just wanted to applaud you for doing that. As much of a BFing proponent as I am, I don't know if I could do that, and I think moms who do have the hard parts of both BFing and bottlefeeding to contend with. You're awesome and an inspiration for EPing for so long. :)

I nurse my 2 year old, and no one has ever seen my BBs in public. Usually I am nursing her in church or at a store, and no one even notices. People frequently approach to speak to me, and talk to DD and think she's either sleeping or just cuddling. My shirt covers everything but her head, and no skin is exposed. I am very modest but I am also able to nurse discreetly without using any kind of blanket or cover.

I know a couple of my IRL friends who had to use SNSs for BFing challenged they had swore by their hooter hiders for hiding the tubing, etc.

[catmom]

Just wanted to chime in- I used a homemade hooter-hider when I would NIP in the early days. I was so awkward, I really needed to have my whole breast exposed to see what I was doing, and the HH enabled me to do that without flashing everyone. I also had to use the boppy-yes, even in public. I'm sure everyone within 10 miles knew what I was doing, but no one ever gave me a dirty look or anything.

I am always in awe of women who can nurse in slings, etc. I hope I'll be able to figure that out if I have a #2, but with DD I was just a disaster. I used the boppy every nursing until she weaned at almost 2.5. I just couldn't figure out how to coordinate everything without it! Maybe if I had a more supportive nursing bra, so I wouldn't have to have one hand free to support the breast? I dunno. I'm such a shlemiel!

[ysolde]

This is a good point. 3 year olds shouldn't be making their own meal decisions, whether it's breastmilk or table food, should they? I wouldn't expect a 3 year old to be allowed to walk over to the fridge, open it, and grab what they wanted to eat out of it either.

I don't know about that. After a hard day at work, I figure if my toddler is smart enough to toddle on over to the fridge, choose a Lean Cuisine, stick it in the microwave oven, and press "Start," all bets are pretty much off. ;)

[ysolde]

Just wanted to chime in- I used a homemade hooter-hider when I would NIP in the early days. I was so awkward, I really needed to have my whole breast exposed to see what I was doing, and the HH enabled me to do that without flashing everyone. I also had to use the boppy-yes, even in public. I'm sure everyone within 10 miles knew what I was doing, but no one ever gave me a dirty look or anything.

I am always in awe of women who can nurse in slings, etc. I hope I'll be able to figure that out if I have a #2, but with DD I was just a disaster. I used the boppy every nursing until she weaned at almost 2.5. I just couldn't figure out how to coordinate everything without it! Maybe if I had a more supportive nursing bra, so I wouldn't have to have one hand free to support the breast? I dunno. I'm such a shlemiel!


OK, so I am in a wheelchair and am probably way overthinking this, but -- theoretically, I could put the baby in a sling under an oversized poncho, the baby could NIP to her heart's content, and no one would be the wiser, right? They would think I looked a bit overweight or pregnant, no? Then, back into the ladies' room, switch sling over poncho, and carry on with errands?

[Kanga]

OK, so I am in a wheelchair and am probably way overthinking this, but -- theoretically, I could put the baby in a sling under an oversized poncho, the baby could NIP to her heart's content, and no one would be the wiser, right? They would think I looked a bit overweight or pregnant, no? Then, back into the ladies' room, switch sling over poncho, and carry on with errands?

If you're using a sling, most times you'll be pretty covered and probably wouldn't need any sort of cover, although it depends on the type of sling, how you are carrying dc and you're comfort level.

[ignutzz]

ysolde Depending on the sling, you wouldn't even need a poncho to be covered and really, your shirt would hide most of you. A lot of moms use the layered approach: two tank tops or a t-shirt with a button down left open etc. - one layer covers your torso, the other covers the top of the breast, baby obscures the rest.

Although I don't have my own children, I'm firmly in the CLW camp. :) I'm thrilled that all of the moms in my friends circle have, or intend to, breastfed/feed past a year at the very least.

Forgot to add this: Tonysweetie I just read through your other thread and: Woman, YOU ROCK! :D :D Good luck, I hope it continues to be successful!!!

[Sarah]

I don't understand the whole "If he can ask, he doesn't need it!" argument. I get why it's just culturally weird for some people to see an older kid nursing, but that argument is just strange. What if I said, "If your kid is old enough to ask for a hug, he's old enough not to be hugged?" A kid expressing a desire has nothing to do with whether he should have it. If your son asked for a hamburger, would you say "No, you asked for it! Of course you can't have what you ask for!"

[mel7dog]

I don't understand the whole "If he can ask, he doesn't need it!" argument. I get why it's just culturally weird for some people to see an older kid nursing, but that argument is just strange. What if I said, "If your kid is old enough to ask for a hug, he's old enough not to be hugged?" A kid expressing a desire has nothing to do with whether he should have it. If your son asked for a hamburger, would you say "No, you asked for it! Of course you can't have what you ask for!"

yeah, where did that saying come from? So stupid.

[Sophia]

I don't understand the whole "If he can ask, he doesn't need it!" argument. I get why it's just culturally weird for some people to see an older kid nursing, but that argument is just strange. What if I said, "If your kid is old enough to ask for a hug, he's old enough not to be hugged?" A kid expressing a desire has nothing to do with whether he should have it. If your son asked for a hamburger, would you say "No, you asked for it! Of course you can't have what you ask for!"

Considering my DD started asking for breast milk by signing well before she was one year old (a few days before 9mo), I agree that's an extremely flawed viewpoint.

[bluebunny]

I don't understand the whole "If he can ask, he doesn't need it!" argument.

Yeah, I don't understand that either. And, that's one of the arguments a family member of mine continues to make. :rolleyes:

Considering my DD started asking for breast milk by signing well before she was one year old (a few days before 9mo), I agree that's an extremely flawed viewpoint.

My son began signing for BM around 9 months, too. Also, newborns root when hungry and isn't rooting just another way to ask for BM? ;)

[Niobe]

I don't understand the whole "If he can ask, he doesn't need it!" argument.

I think "Why do you feel that way?" is going to be a favorite response of mine to arguments like that. I'm curious how people would justify their stances that have absolutely no basis, like that one.

[cari2]

I don't understand the whole "If he can ask, he doesn't need it!" argument. I get why it's just culturally weird for some people to see an older kid nursing, but that argument is just strange. Delurking to comment on this. I don't agree with this line of thinking, but I can understand how it was derived. I guess if one thought that breastfeeding was for babies only then one might think that if a child is old enough to ask for the breast they are no longer babies and therefore too old to nurse. I don't think this line of thinking is limited to bf, it probably would apply to (among other things) bottle feeding and the binky.

[Marisa]

I actually think that the "too old" comment comes from the idea that breasts are primarily sexual in function. In our society, at least for the last few generations, people seem to feel like these are "for display purposes only". Everyone's got their own idea of when it starts to seem "icky", based on that sexualization -- it's a shame that some people feel like that starts when a baby is only a few weeks or months old.

[Delta]

I was thinking about this today in relation to the hooter hider/nursing room discussion. There are so many times when we are out in public and my baby wants to nurse and I don't feel like dealing with the potential stares or hassles from other people. But I take one for the NIP team and just do it rather than going to a nursing room or what have you. In order to relate this to the OP - this gets especially true when my babies have gotten older and bigger. I am a pretty small person and therefore my babies look even bigger, which I am sure gives people pause.

(I've really only had a few negative incidents and they were all with my oldest, none with my youngest so far.)

[Tonysweetie]

ignutzz: THANKS!!! :) I hope so too!

Golden: Thanks!! That means a lot. :)

[kam]

I actually think that the "too old" comment comes from the idea that breasts are primarily sexual in function. In our society, at least for the last few generations, people seem to feel like these are "for display purposes only". Everyone's got their own idea of when it starts to seem "icky", based on that sexualization -- it's a shame that some people feel like that starts when a baby is only a few weeks or months old.

Well at some point or another it WILL be based on sexualization. "Normal" parts of a child's life has a point where we have to say "it needs to stop at a certain point". Boys and girls sharing rooms, helping the child bathe or shower, and yes, breastfeeding. I find it bizarre that breastfeeding is somehow exempted from this.

And yeah, women aren't having breast augmentations for their babies, I'd imagine. Whether it be society brainwashing us or not, I feel some posters in this thread are trying to deny that there IS a sexual part to breasts.

[Spellbound]

goldengbridge
anyway, blanket statements that make it seem like bottle fed babies are never judged just really annoy me b/c i've found that in my experience (and the experience of many others) that's just not the case.

Amy, I just wanted to pipe in and say a huge thank you to you. Reading your words brought back how painful my own experience was for me and how much of a failure I felt for giving birth way too early and not being able to supply what my heart desired from the day I found out I was pregnant...and when DS was finally able to come home to us, had to endure the countless rude remarks I received not only from strangers but some inconsiderate folks we considered friends.

So truly I thank you for speaking up for folks like myself who were persecuted because their little one was seen with a bottle.

And FWIW, even though you live in a certain area it's all up in the air upon who you come across. I'm where SiValleySteph is but the experiences and people I have come across are so varied - then again it's a huge area with multiple, well-defined groups (heck, levels!) of strong opinion and I have to admit that the condemning, you should be doing so-and-so from any camp irritate me to no end. I suppose however that I'm just glad that I have a healthy little boy now and wish more people would appreciate the big picture: that for the most part, we're all trying to achieve the major goal - strong, healthly children.

I'm due shortly with my next child and I hope beyond hope that I will deliver without any complications this time and can breastfeed to my heart's content. It took a long time for me to forgive myself with my first (it was my dirty little secret I hid from a lot of people) and I finally arrived to a place where I understood I need to be happy for great sustenance, regardless of what vessel (boob or bottle) it comes by.

It was such a tough thing for me though to get past. I can admit that now outloud.

[ysolde]

I was thinking about this today in relation to the hooter hider/nursing room discussion. There are so many times when we are out in public and my baby wants to nurse and I don't feel like dealing with the potential stares or hassles from other people. But I take one for the NIP team and just do it rather than going to a nursing room or what have you. In order to relate this to the OP - this gets especially true when my babies have gotten older and bigger. I am a pretty small person and therefore my babies look even bigger, which I am sure gives people pause.

(I've really only had a few negative incidents and they were all with my oldest, none with my youngest so far.)


Hehe. Don't worry too much. I am 4'11", and my boobies are 34Cs by nature. I wonder what pregnancy and nursing would do to them (hello, Selma Hayek!). At this point, because I am in a wheelchair, people often give me dirty looks when they see me holding hands or kissing a man. Haven't you heard that people with disabilities are supposed to be asexual? I can't imagine what they will say when/if I am pregnant, have a baby. :rolleyes:

[msnicolea]

You cannot equate nursing with formula because one is solely for nutrition and one encompasses many other things. I never scheduled DS's feedings or restricted them while he was younger - he was able to nurse for thirst, hunger, tiredness, comfort, stability - whatever. Of course the mom gets something out of the relationship! I get numerous health benefits and a great relationship with my child. I have one extra tool in my parenting toolbox.

I just feel the need to say that many of us who bottle feed view the feeding time as something more than "just nutrition," too. You don't have to nurse to use that time for bonding, soothing, etc. . ., and I don't schedule my son's feedings simply because we use a bottle--he eats when he needs/wants to eat. Just because I use a bottle doesn't mean I turn on soap operas and ignore my son while he's eating, not does it mean it's simply a way to fill him up.

These kinds of generalizations are quite bothersome.

[Kanga]

Well at some point or another it WILL be based on sexualization. "Normal" parts of a child's life has a point where we have to say "it needs to stop at a certain point". Boys and girls sharing rooms, helping the child bathe or shower, and yes, breastfeeding. I find it bizarre that breastfeeding is somehow exempted from this.


There are many cultures (European especially) where breasts aren't viewed nearly as sexually as they are in the U.S. In highschool I went on a trip to France with my French class that I was taking and we stayed with host families. A friend of mine went to the beach with her host family and the mom went topless. When it was time for lunch she put her bikini top back on, then took it off again after lunch was done for the rest of their time there. It's completely normal there and the mom certainly didn't mean anything sexual by it. She was by far not the only one there.

[SiValleySteph]

On that note msnicolea, I would like to add that I usually read a book while my DS breastfeeds. It's like heaven to get a free 10 minutes to read something!

That said, one thing is that with breastfeeding, the child is always getting skin to skin. I know that when I was giving DS a bottle, it was easy to let him just sit in the stroller or whatever. A bottlefeeder may have to make an effort to give the child contact while feeding. (If you're lazy like me, I mean. ;))

[Marisa]

There absolutely is a sexual component to breasts, but as Kanga said they're much more 'taboo' in this country than in others. Here, it's exciting for men to grab a glimpse of breast -- in other countries it's relatively normal. Which, of course, makes it that much more scandalous here when a woman nurses in public, no matter what age her baby is.

Of course there's an age when it's not really appropriate anymore, but at the outer limit, it's usually when all that other stuff starts happening too -- "mom, I don't need your help in the tub", no more room sharing, etc. The research done on BFing throughout the world suggests that children allowed to wean on their own timetable will do so anywhere from age 2 to 7. I'm not sure how many mothers would continue to be comfortable nursing a 7-year-old, but that's the upper limit there -- there are many children who wean on their own before then.

Nicole, I hope that you bottlefeed your baby in public a lot too! :) I have to say that your type of approach to bottlefeeding is not one that I see out in public very often. When you go to the mall you usually see a lot of 'propping' going on, and not much interacting with the baby. I was actually thrilled to watch a father giving his 3-4 month old a bottle the other day, talking to him the whole time, and then lift the baby to give him a little kiss afterward. I feel like too many parents are pushing to separate themselves from their babies, and for what?

[maybebaby]

deleted

[maybebaby]

deleted

[msnicolea]

I don't always do skin-to-skin now, but I did it religiously when I first switched from breast to bottle. I also always hold him when he gets the bottle--I never leave him in a high chair or stroller or whatever--I like our time together! Now that he's eating a lot of solids, I really miss it! I tried holding him n my lap a few times early on with the solids--BAD IDEA! ;->

As for dads, my DH is awesome--he is constantly singing or talking to Lucas while he feeds him--it's adorable!

I do bottle feed in public, but still have a sense of embarrassment over it, which is totally my own issue and I need to get over it.

[gizzyntaz]

I just feel the need to say that many of us who bottle feed view the feeding time as something more than "just nutrition," too. You don't have to nurse to use that time for bonding, soothing, etc. . ., and I don't schedule my son's feedings simply because we use a bottle--he eats when he needs/wants to eat. Just because I use a bottle doesn't mean I turn on soap operas and ignore my son while he's eating, not does it mean it's simply a way to fill him up.

These kinds of generalizations are quite bothersome.

Obviously you are reading a lot more into my comment than I was. I know plenty of people bond when feeding a bottle. I know many moms choose to pump just so other relatives can enjoy the closeness of a feeding...Heck, I fell in love with my nephew all over again and decided I wanted another child the day I gave him a bottle!

That said, I've never known a mom to pop a bottle in her child's mouth because he/she has taken a tumble and needs some comfort. The child would get hugs and kisses and cuddles or some other method of soothing (pacifier, etc.) Whereas a nursing mom has the opportunity to use her extra tool and let the child nurse in that situation. She might not ALWAYS nurse, because sometimes a hug or cuddle (or pacifier) will fix it, but she can use nursing in a way that I have never heard of formula (or expressed BM) being encouraged.

[dal]

That said, I've never known a mom to pop a bottle in her child's mouth because he/she has taken a tumble and needs some comfort. The child would get hugs and kisses and cuddles or some other method of soothing (pacifier, etc.) Whereas a nursing mom has the opportunity to use her extra tool and let the child nurse in that situation. She might not ALWAYS nurse, because sometimes a hug or cuddle (or pacifier) will fix it, but she can use nursing in a way that I have never heard of formula (or expressed BM) being encouraged.
Actually I have seen formula encouraged (and of all placed at a BFing support group :o ). I was there with my oldest DD who was probably just 2-3 months old. After the meeting, I was strapping her into the infant seat to leave the room and as she always did at that age, she screamed. She would scream until I got the seat into the stroller and the stroller started moving. But before I could do that, an older woman came up to me (I am assuming she was the mother of one of the nursing moms) and asked me "don't you have a bottle or something you can give her?" And I have mom friends who formula feed who I know have used a bottle to soothe their babies. Of course most babies aren't given bottles after a year but then I see no difference in offering sippy cups of milk to soothe a child. In fact I'm sure I did that when I had weaned the girls but was giving them sippy cups of milk.

I nursed both of my girls until about a year old. My oldest, I nursed until she was about 13 months old (5-6 of which I was pregnant). My youngest weaned herself. She tried to wean herself around 8 months but I still had to nurse her 3-4 times a day until a year b/c she wasn't getting formula or anything. But she was happy when I let it go at a year and just gave her milk.

I think in a lot of discussion, it is forgotten that some kids do wean themselves right about a year, if not earlier. And even if a parent leads the weaning process, I haven't heard any stories of kids being unhappy with the change. I guess I just don't understand why extended nursers think it's problematic for other women to choose to wean at a year. The same way I don't see why night-weaning is so looked down upon either.

[Kanga]

I guess I just don't understand why extended nursers think it's problematic for other women to choose to wean at a year.

Because kids up until 2 need whole milk, and obviously human milk is healthier than cow's milk for them so I don't understand it. I don't see anything wrong/problematic with weaning at a year, actually I think it's great when women hit that milestone, but I don't understand why they'd switch to milk from a cow rather than milk from a human (for their human baby) to fil their nutritional needs. Much like I don't understand why someone would choose to formula feed from the get go and not give breastfeeding a try (barring sexual assault, etc) but I don't see it as 'bad' thing...just one of those things that makes me scratch my head.

[Sarah]

Just because I use a bottle doesn't mean I turn on soap operas and ignore my son while he's eating, not does it mean it's simply a way to fill him up.

These kinds of generalizations are quite bothersome.
Yes, they are annoying. I do actually watch soap operas or eat a snack or read a book or surf CC when nursing. I never felt it to be a particularly bonding experience, unless I invested energy in making it so.

[amygrrl]

there you go.... some breastfeeders DON'T use breastfeeding as an opportunity to bond or soothe... some bottlefeeders DO use bottlefeeding as an opportunity to bond and/or soothe.

i think this was my point WAY back in this thread. it's not wise to make assumptions about the way people parent. or assume someone else lacks whatever you (general you) find valuable about making a particualr parenting decision because that person made a different choice.

honestly, the constant talk of 'breastfeeders have it harder' (the comments earlier in the thread) and/ or 'bottle feeders aren't getting the bonding' is just... well, i don't know what to say. annoying? presumtive? i mean if we want to get into some competitive martyrdom, pumpers have it the worst. you pump 8+ times a day for months. you wash bottles and multiple pumping parts 8+ times a day. people judge you and make rude comments questioning your committment to giving your baby the best b/c they think your feeding formula all while you already feel like crap for not being able to breastfeed. you are tied to the house or any place you can find an outlet. there's no law protecting your right to pump in public and noone is going to have a public 'pump in' to support your rights to do so, so if you are on a plane, as i have been, you just have to sit with the pain of engorged breasts. you don't fear you might get kicked off a plane.. you KNOW you will. every day is an excercise in scheduling... when and how and where will you pump to insure you've got enough for the next bottle. pumps and the supplies aren't light. and you take it everywhere you go.

so there... now if pumpers are declared the official winners of the 'we have it the hardest' can we all agree to stop with the 'breastfeeders/ bottlefeeders are more persecuted' rhetoric? trying to argue who has it the hardest is ridiculous. parenting is hard. for everyone.

and while i'm semi-ranting.... i realize that breastfeeders feel that breastfeeding is special. i agree, it is. however, that doesn't mean that those who use bottles don't have a special connection when it comes to bonding. or that you (general you) have something 'more' or 'extra' than bottlefeeders do when it comes to bonding. what you have is something different. and let me add, i'm not talking about nutrition here. i get that breastfeeding is superior in nutrition. heck, i wouldn't have pumped for so long if i didn't think that. but to state that you have an 'extra tool' that is presumptive. it's not extra. it's different. don't assume that bottlefeeders don't do skin to skin. or that every person you see giving proping a bottle in public is even a bottlefeeder. maybe it's the nanny or aunt or whatever.

anyway, i'm sorry if i'm ranting. but i am totally over the whole my way is better than your way. or i sacrifice more than you. again, it's competitve parenting and i just think it's counter productive to us supporting each other as parents.

[AmyE]

what she said. Exactly right amygrrl

[amygrrl]

Spellbound - no problem!!! we all need to support each other as mothers. motherhood is hard. on everyone. and it's especially hard when you want to give your baby something so bad and you physically can't. and it's adding insult to injury to then have people either make rude comments to you questioning your desire to give your kid the best or constantly rub it in your face that what you are giving is 'inferior' without any knowledge of what, in your personal situation, might have led to your decision. for me, my dd was born early too... she had a 1 minute apgar of 1 and a 5 minute apgar of 2. yes, she almost died. she was tiny for her gestational age. she spent almost a week in nicu. she had a very bad case of jaundice which could only be cured via peeing and pooping. she had to eat. i had been dialated to 3 and then 5 for 2 months before delivery. and given 3 rounds of iv antibiotics to fight off infection while being so dialated. after delivering, i had horrible edema in my breasts (yes, diagnosed by 3 different LC's) so that my nipples were inverted. so inverted that the nipple shields wouldn't attach. dd was too weak from almost dying during delivery and the jaundice to suck hard enough to pull the nipples out. so i pumped. it took her 3 weeks to recover from the jaundice. at which point i couldn't put her back on the breast b/c of a wicked case of thrush (which covered every inch of my 42 DDDD breasts) thanks to all the antibiotics. the thrush lasted for about 5 months! no amount of anything cleared it up. and so i continued to pump.

so tell me.. why should i have to explain this to anyone and defend myself and my 'choice'? and does anyone think for maybe a second that after all of this crap i went through that maybe coming back and telling me i have less or am giving less to my kid b/c i bottle feed, whether it's bonding or whatever... you know, it's hurtful. but the thing is the people who say these things don't know our histories. so it's like maybebaby said... it would just be really nice if we could all give each other the benefit of the doubt and assume that we all have excellent reasons for our choices until proven otherwise.

[Amaye]

i think this was my point WAY back in this thread. it's not wise to make assumptions about the way people parent. or assume someone else lacks whatever you (general you) find valuable about making a particualr parenting decision because that person made a different choice.

honestly, the constant talk of 'breastfeeders have it harder' (the comments earlier in the thread) and/ or 'bottle feeders aren't getting the bonding' is just... well, i don't know what to say. annoying? presumtive? i mean if we want to get into some competitive martyrdom, pumpers have it the worst. you pump 8+ times a day for months. you wash bottles and multiple pumping parts 8+ times a day. people judge you and make rude comments questioning your committment to giving your baby the best b/c they think your feeding formula all while you already feel like crap for not being able to breastfeed. you are tied to the house or any place you can find an outlet. there's no law protecting your right to pump in public and noone is going to have a public 'pump in' to support your rights to do so, so if you are on a plane, as i have been, you just have to sit with the pain of engorged breasts. you don't fear you might get kicked off a plane.. you KNOW you will. every day is an excercise in scheduling... when and how and where will you pump to insure you've got enough for the next bottle. pumps and the supplies aren't light. and you take it everywhere you go.

so there... now if pumpers are declared the official winners of the 'we have it the hardest' can we all agree to stop with the 'breastfeeders/ bottlefeeders are more persecuted' rhetoric? trying to argue who has it the hardest is ridiculous. parenting is hard. for everyone.

and while i'm semi-ranting.... i realize that breastfeeders feel that breastfeeding is special. i agree, it is. however, that doesn't mean that those who use bottles don't have a special connection when it comes to bonding. or that you (general you) have something 'more' or 'extra' than bottlefeeders do when it comes to bonding. what you have is something different. and let me add, i'm not talking about nutrition here. i get that breastfeeding is superior in nutrition. heck, i wouldn't have pumped for so long if i didn't think that. but to state that you have an 'extra tool' that is presumptive. it's not extra. it's different. don't assume that bottlefeeders don't do skin to skin. or that every person you see giving proping a bottle in public is even a bottlefeeder. maybe it's the nanny or aunt or whatever.

anyway, i'm sorry if i'm ranting. but i am totally over the whole my way is better than your way. or i sacrifice more than you. again, it's competitve parenting and i just think it's counter productive to us supporting each other as parents.

You said it even better than I ever could!!

[msnicolea]

You go, amygrrl!

And I don't think I was reading anything into your post at all, gizzyntaz--this is what you said:

You cannot equate nursing with formula because one is solely for nutrition and one encompasses many other things.

You stated that bottle feeding was ONLY for nutrition, thereby dismissing other valuable components of the process.

And obviously bottle feeders have it the worst--particularly those of us who use Dr. Browns. Do you know how much time we spend washing those #%^$#^%#^ parts?

[amygrrl]

And obviously bottle feeders have it the worst--particularly those of us who use Dr. Browns. Do you know how much time we spend washing those #%^$#^%#^ parts?


bwahahahaha!!!!

i win again!!!! i EP'd AND used dr. brown's bottles!!!! i'm insane, i tell you!

[Delta]

I know you were being facetious, but I had to chime in and agree that EPing takes some serious dedication and probably does qualify for having it the hardest - the whole feeding process takes twice as long because it entails pumping, feeding and cleaning. I can't stand pumping, personally.

[mel7dog]

I think the whole "who has it worst" discussion started by dicussing who has it worst IN PUBLIC. If I remember correctly that discussion started because people were saying it's not fair that woman get looks or comments for NIP when people who bottle feed can do so freely (though it seems some people get rude comments for bottle feeding as well, which is terrible). I don't doubt that EPing is the hardest. But in terms of feeding in public I still think BFers have the biggest challenge. Like I said in my pervious post, no bottle feeder has to worry about being kicked off a plane or out of another public place.

[amygrrl]

I still think BFers have the biggest challenge. Like I said in my pervious post, no bottle feeder has to worry about being kicked off a plane or out of another public place.

umm... actually they do if they pump. and the honest truth is that no one knows when seeing someone sitting with a bottle if they are pumper or not...

but besides that, unless you've ever failed at breastfeeding, felt like total crap about yourself for it, done the best you could, fed your kid a bottle in public and then had people come tell you that you were making a choice that's inferior for your child, i think it would be *really* difficult to judge what's harder. to me, getting kicked off a plane? sure, that sucks. but you've got a whole gaggle of women and the media to rally around you and tell you that you've done nothing wrong.. that the law is on your side, etc. women nationwide have nurse in's for you. it's a rally cry for your rights.

on the other hand, when a woman is on the verge of tears for the 30 millionth time b/c her breasts and body just won't cooperate is sitting at the dr's office for her 8 wk post-partum check up feeling completely defeated and her kid is wailing to eat so she pulls out a bottle only to have a well meaning receptionist say to her, 'you know, i realize the bottle is convenient, but you really should consider breastfeeding... it's what's best for the baby.'... who's there for her? i just don't get how it's any 'easier'. and yeah, that happened to me.

but beyond that, why is it so important for anyone to believe that it is? insisting that one experience is somehow 'harder' than another does nothing to move forward breastfeeding rights. what it *does* do is completely invalidate the feelings of a large group of folks who have their own challenges that are just as difficult and damaging as any you might experience and creates a them v. us mentality.

[msnicolea]

Why is it a competition at all? Like amygrrl said, unless you've walked in someone else's shoes, how can you possibly know what feels worse, what's more challenging? Not being able to BF past 2 months felt HORRIBLE to me--I was in tears every single day. I am just now to the point where I don't feel ashamed to buy formula or make his bottles in public. Yes, getting looked at or having comments made about BFing being inappropriate in public may hurt your feelings, and I think it's totally unfair--but no one is suggesting to YOU that what you are doing is harming your baby, as is often the case with those of us who FF. No--we won't get kicked off a plane--but many of us have been told we are harming our child, and that's pretty awful to experience.

[BethIrish]

I just want to repeat: Why is it a comptetition at all? We're all parents, and rather than saying "I've got it harder and heres why:" why can't we just be a supportive community? Why can't we admit "Yes, breast is best...but sometimes it doesn't work. Or sometimes its not what I choose to do."

Seriously, it's ridiculous. We've all got our challenges as parents, and its really not a productive conversation to tear each other down over the choices we each make.

[Dally]

Great comments, Amygrrl!

I still nurse my 2.25 year old. I get negative comments even though I don't talk about it unless asked and don't do it in public. I don't know what I'd do without Internet resources, because I feel pretty alone. I don't know anyone IRL who ENs or who did EN.

I've also given formula (supplemented in the early months), pumped for 13 months (definitely the hardest thing for me; I'm in awe of full-time pumpers), fought supply issues, NIP'd and felt very shy about it, and gave bottles of both EBF and formula (full-time WOHM here; DD has had plenty of bottles...and I washed them ;)).

It's crazy how much judgement is out there. If, IRL, you ever see me looking at you feeding your baby, you can rest assured that whether you are feeding by breast or by bottle, I'm just thinking, "aw, what a cute baby!" And I'm definitely not wondering what's in the bottle. I think that, for the most part, we mothers are all just doing the best we can.

[dal]

Why is it a competition at all? exactly. While I chose to BF my two girls and was physically able to, I don't judge those who don't BF. I don't know everyone's reasons for not BFing nor is it any of my business. Those who choose to formula feed are not harming their babies so I don't get why anyone thinks they should campaign for others to BF. I understand that it's important for people to know the medical benefits of BFing and I think the information out there is a great thing so that moms can make an informed decision whether to BF or bottle feed. However, it seems that many BFers are now asserting that BFing is the only good way (barring any physical barriers to BFing).

[amygrrl]

barring any physical barriers to BFing

and even that doesn't stop the comments. i remember on one thread around here somewhere about a year ago being told that while it was commendable that i was pumping, the fact was that my pumped bm was substandard to that straight from the boob. is it *really* necessary to tell someone who already feels like a failure that? did that person *really* think that i would then somehow magically make my nursing relationship work or that i CHOSE to pump? i am a huge proponant for breastfeeding, but when things like that happen, it makes me want scream.

i DO want to qualify however, that there have been several folks on these boards who have been completely supportive and non-judgemental and really helped me through everything when i was in the thick of it. they didn't judge me when i had to stop pumping at 6 1/2 months. and i appreciate that...

[goldengbridge]

Just wanted to pop back in and say that if your happy with your choice to do whatever you choose to do then it really shouldn't matter who thinks what. When I EPed for my son I didnt personally run into any negative feedback but even if I did, I knew how hard I was working to supply BM for him. I knew the sacrifices it took to have enough milk for that next feeding. In the end, it doenst matter what other people think. You only have control over your feelings and your actions. Thats how I feel anyway.


this is meant to be a nice post so heres hoping I don't get jumped again....

[gizzyntaz]

You cannot equate nursing with formula because one is solely for nutrition and one encompasses many other things.

Going back to my original quote, I stand by it, even if others disagree. Trying to compare, me, nursing, to a can of formula - I'll never see it. Comparing me as a loving mother who is feeding her child and calming her child to another loving mother who is doing the same thing using a different method - that is fine. But I can't really compare what I do or how I use nursing my child, with a can formula. If others can, that's their prerogative.

I never intended my post to start a war about who's better, and I do apologize if it seemed that way. I posted some of my experience and feelings to add to a thread that is extremely relevant to me and offer a perspective as a mom who has ENed, much past the point that many polled believe is okay. I was speaking from the heart, with no intention of having it reflect on anyone but myself.

[cosmic]

Wow, this thread is WAY off topic. Should another thread be made? lol.
So, um... how long is too long to nurse? :D

[mel7dog]

Ok obviously what I'm trying to say is getting twisted around and misunderstood. I was just trying to get back to the original topic of the thread about nursing older babies and NIP.

Those who choose to formula feed are not harming their babies so I don't get why anyone thinks they should campaign for others to BF.

I disagree with this. And I strongly believe in campaigning for others to BF, as I consider not BFing a public health issue.

I understand that it's important for people to know the medical benefits of BFing and I think the information out there is a great thing so that moms can make an informed decision whether to BF or bottle feed.

Sadly many people DON'T know the facts and therefore are unable to make an informed decision. The education that's out there doesn't reach everyone and many people don't have the support needed to BF.

Wow, this thread is WAY off topic. Should another thread be made? lol.
So, um... how long is too long to nurse?

Ummmm....yeah!

[dal]

And I strongly believe in campaigning for others to BF, as I consider not BFing a public health issue.
How is it a public health issue?

Sadly many people DON'T know the facts and therefore are unable to make an informed decision. The education that's out there doesn't reach everyone and many people don't have the support needed to BF.
I agree but what does this have to do with anything that has been said? I never said that BFing education was bad or not needed. In fact, I said quite the opposite.

[maybebaby]

deleted

[pocahontas]

Wow, this thread is WAY off topic. Should another thread be made? lol.
So, um... how long is too long to nurse? :D
I was thinking the same thing while watching it spiral out of control. LOL :D Umm...how long is too long you ask, Cosmic? Well, I am a teacher (typing from my classroom presently) and I am still crackin' up at the thought of some mom needing to come nurse her kindergartener in my class. (or worse 6 year old 1st grader or 7 year old 2nd grader). Yes, I'd have a problem with it, but I suppose luckily I have never encountered it...and hope not to have to. ;)

[Marisa]

Whether a mother chooses to breastfeed or not IS a public health issue, because of the many ailments that could be prevented or lessened by a baby being breastfed for a length of time. These include ear infections, digestive problems (both viral and chronic), obesity, etc. Anything that impacts the health (or potential health) of our country's children is a public health issue.

Before anyone comments about how their FF kid is healthy, or a friend's BF kid is always sick -- the anecdotal evidence will always be there. It's not that breastmilk is a magical cure for all diseases -- it's just that there is scientific evidence to support the idea that in general, children who are breastfed will have a better shot at being healthier later in life.

I think this is relevant to the original topic, as well. I wish there was more education/support for the idea that the longer you breastfeed, the longer your child is receiving that protection. I often wonder if enough information is out there, when a mother who's otherwise successfully breastfeeding decides to wean early (>12 months) -- whether she realizes the possible health implications. (I'm sure anyone who spends time on here or other parenting boards has some access to good information, but I spend plenty of time talking to moms who are not online sharing with other mothers.)

[mgrace]

but besides that, unless you've ever failed at breastfeeding, felt like total crap about yourself for it, done the best you could, fed your kid a bottle in public and then had people come tell you that you were making a choice that's inferior for your child, i think it would be *really* difficult to judge what's harder. to me, getting kicked off a plane? sure, that sucks. but you've got a whole gaggle of women and the media to rally around you and tell you that you've done nothing wrong.. that the law is on your side, etc. women nationwide have nurse in's for you. it's a rally cry for your rights.

on the other hand, when a woman is on the verge of tears for the 30 millionth time b/c her breasts and body just won't cooperate is sitting at the dr's office for her 8 wk post-partum check up feeling completely defeated and her kid is wailing to eat so she pulls out a bottle only to have a well meaning receptionist say to her, 'you know, i realize the bottle is convenient, but you really should consider breastfeeding... it's what's best for the baby.'... who's there for her? i just don't get how it's any 'easier'. and yeah, that happened to me.

but beyond that, why is it so important for anyone to believe that it is? insisting that one experience is somehow 'harder' than another does nothing to move forward breastfeeding rights. what it *does* do is completely invalidate the feelings of a large group of folks who have their own challenges that are just as difficult and damaging as any you might experience and creates a them v. us mentality.

Thank you, thank you, thank you amygrrl. Very well said.

[goldengbridge]

Wow, this thread is WAY off topic. Should another thread be made? lol.
So, um... how long is too long to nurse?



YES, for goodness sake can someone start a new thread!!!!

[MrsT]

I guess I just don't understand why extended nursers think it's problematic for other women to choose to wean at a year.

I don't have a problem with the weaning at a year. I would rather someone wean at a year than say 4 months! (Though I wouldn't fault someone for weaning at any point, I just figure why buy formula if you are capable of making your own - and are weaning prior to one year just because you don't want to BF anymore).

That being said, I would definitely encourage BFing past one year just because of the whole cow's milk thing. If I have to give cow's milk - why not just continue with my nice free real, super nutritious milk. Besides, my DS didn't like cow's milk until he was past two and he'll still only drink MAYBE 4 oz. a day. If I didn't still make my own milk what would I have done?? And he's the only kid I know who's never had an ear infection, only thrown up once and had fevers 3 times - I figured the immunitites he was getting were working pretty well :)

[mgrace]

and even that doesn't stop the comments. i remember on one thread around here somewhere about a year ago being told that while it was commendable that i was pumping, the fact was that my pumped bm was substandard to that straight from the boob. is it *really* necessary to tell someone who already feels like a failure that? did that person *really* think that i would then somehow magically make my nursing relationship work or that i CHOSE to pump? i am a huge proponant for breastfeeding, but when things like that happen, it makes me want scream.

Oh yes.

I agree 100% that breast is best BUT sh*t happens. While I can't find it at the moment, I did see an article in Consumer Reports about a study done about babies that had been fed organic food vs. babies fed non-organic food and how there was a difference. (I know great explanation--I'll try and find the article). Should I walk up to the next woman I see in Target and ask her why she isn't buying organic baby food? Or better yet, why she isn't making her own food? After breastfeeding exclusively, shouldn't she want to continue to give her baby the best? And what about the epidural that the same woman had? I mean, we could go on and on and on about who is a better parent and who makes better choices but where does that get us? We all want what is best for our babies and I think, we all strive to do our best. Like amygrrl said, motherhood is hard enough without all of the "advice" that we receive and all of the competition.

OK, now back to the original topic. ;) I'm all for nursing as long as both mother and child are comfortable with it.

[mermccau]

And obviously bottle feeders have it the worst--particularly those of us who use Dr. Browns. Do you know how much time we spend washing those #%^$#^%#^ parts?

I win! I win! I pumped and used Dr Browns! I am the hardest working, most self sacrificing mom ever!

[BethIrish]

I just had a funny thought. We have a baby, and we're bombarded with how breast is best!!! So, we breast feed. But then, people start screaming about how so-and-so "whipped it out" and fed the baby in public. Then, magical age X comes and everyone says "Shouldn't you wean that baby already?"

For crying out loud, maybe the message should be "Breast is best, but only in the privacy of your own home and only until your child is X months/years old."

It's ridiculous. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[amygrrl]

Trying to compare, me, nursing, to a can of formula - I'll never see it. Comparing me as a loving mother who is feeding her child and calming her child to another loving mother who is doing the same thing using a different method - that is fine. But I can't really compare what I do or how I use nursing my child, with a can formula. If others can, that's their prerogative.


i think the issue here is that it's not an accurate apples to apples comparison. it should be comparing breastmilk to formula or bottlefeeding to breastfeeding. i don't think anyone has compared what you nursing to a can of formula. but i might be wrong. but just as breastmilk doesn't fly out of your boob and magically land in your babies mouth across the room (unless you've got some amazing powers there!!! :eek:), formula doesn't magically land in a baby's mouth either. both require human involvement. of course, some people bring up the propping up the bottles thing, but there's no evidence that that's the standard of practice for bottle feeders and others have stated here that they watch soaps while breastfeeding and don't bond at all... so as i see it, that just negates that whole arguement. so to compare what i do by bottle feeding, whether it's expressed BM or formula, to a can of formula... well i don't see that at all either.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i live in a very crunchy area. my family is from a very conservative area of texas. during my EPing, i spent a good amount of time in texas as my mom was dying. i can tell you i've had the folks in texas (family and strangers) say rude things about my pumping and not just using formula and it made me laugh. my reaction was that they obviously weren't educated about the benefits of breastmilk. it wasn't a personal attack on me and my parenting. on the other hand, i've had the people here in crunchy land say things about my pumping and not breastfeeding and it made me cry. it absolutely was personal then and was questioning my love and dedication to my kid. there's a big difference there that i think some people just don't get. there's an empowerment when providing breastmilk for your kid, through pumping or breastfeeding, that helps you deal with those comments coming from folks who think you should stop. on the other hand, when the lactivists go after you for not having your baby attached to your boob, at least in my case, they were picking at a scab. and given none of knows anyones individual circumstances, it's probably better to take marisa's approach to things (who helped a ton when i was pumping) ... provide some unbiased education if approached but leave out the judgement. and try your best to assume that people are making the best decisions they can for their kids.

[mermccau]

Oh, and if we are going to bicker at anyone, we should bicker at Medela for charging us $300 freaking dollars for a $10 pump that was probably made in Mexico!

[amygrrl]

I win! I win! I pumped and used Dr Browns! I am the hardest working, most self sacrificing mom ever!

dude.. i totally already called it!!!! ;) you only win if you pumped longer than me or your stash was bigger. i had to buy a whole extra freezer for mine and was at one point up to 2000 oz. beat that! i am the hardest working, most self sacrificing mom in the universe!!!! go me!

ETA: and i rented a hospital grade pump for 3 months and then bought 2 of those Medela PISA f*ckers b/c i couldn't deal with lugging the one i had back and forth to work. along with 4 or 5 sets of horns b/c i had to find the right size and i got sick of cleaning those damn things between every pump session. i totally paid for some Medela executive's vacation to Maui.

[mamax2]

Yes, getting looked at or having comments made about BFing being inappropriate in public may hurt your feelings, and I think it's totally unfair--but no one is suggesting to YOU that what you are doing is harming your baby, as is often the case with those of us who FF. No--we won't get kicked off a plane--but many of us have been told we are harming our child, and that's pretty awful to experience.

Actually, still OT, but for those who EN, in particular, there are probably PLENTY of stories about being told we are psychologically harming our kids. There have been several posters in this thread who've cited the nursing being 'for the mom's benefit' or 'forcing' or 'tricking' a toddler into nursing. Don't those statements point at doing something harmful or at the very least unbeneficial?

Heck, my own MIL told my SIL and I that for future *boys*, we should wean them at 6 months. It's not hard to read between the lines on that one to see that she thought we were going to end up a Greek tragedy if we BFed boys too much :rolleyes:

Otherwise, I'm in total agreement that parenting is NOT a competition and we'd all do well to support each other. That said, I don't care how long anyone nurses their children. I'd probably give a double-take if I saw a child older than 3 NIP, but it wouldn't necessarily be in a negative way, just in a 'wow, you don't see that every day' kind of way.

[Irish Elf]

I iwll admit that i skipped a few pages in the middle. I also realize that this is about nursing, but there are a few things I want to add to vaious tangents.

I have been know to watch TV or read when nursing. I also cuddle with DD. Sometimes at her middle of the night feeding I play the game on my phone b/c the light keeps her from falling asleep. it really all depends on what kind of mood she's in. Sometimes she wants the bonding, sometimes she wants to eat and please just leave her alone.

I don't breast feed in public in the traditional sense. I don't feel comfortable nursing in the middle of the mall. Why? Well, I can't find a comfortable seat. I'm short and my knees hurt if my legs don't have anything to sit on. However, Dillard's has a really nice women's lounge with really comfy chairs/couches, a nice selection of magazines, soothing music and it has a much better AC system. DD likes it relatively quiet and hates tons of activity around when she's nursing. With a heat index over 110 I am not going to cover her up. Also you can bet that within 3 minutes of her eating she will need changed. I guess i could change her on the benches but ew, that's where people eat. Or I could just leave her dirty until I can get to a changing station... I would hope that if you walked by me you wouldn't judge why I chose to go in the lounge until you know ALL the facts.

Also, I can't imagine judging someone with a bottle. We don't freak out when we see men bottle feeding a child in public so why women? There could be many factors why there's a bottle, perhaps the child is adopted. DH and I will be adopting our second child and please help the person who judges me without facts. Or am I suddenly supposed to lactate on demand? Does that mean that my adopted child will be less smart or less loved b/c I couldn't give her my breast?

PPs summed it up. Most of us make choices that are right for us and our children. We should be supportive of each other because being a mother is challenging enough without competition and judgements.

[mermccau]

dude.. i totally already called it!!!! ;) you only win if you pumped longer than me or your stash was bigger. i had to buy a whole extra freezer for mine and was at one point up to 2000 oz. beat that! i am the hardest working, most self sacrificing mom in the universe!!!! go me!

ETA: and i rented a hospital grade pump for 3 months and then bought 2 of those Medela PISA f*ckers b/c i couldn't deal with lugging the one i had back and forth to work. along with 4 or 5 sets of horns b/c i had to find the right size and i got sick of cleaning those damn things between every pump session. i totally paid for some Medela executive's vacation to Maui.

Ah, see, that is what happens when I just post in a thread without backtracking. You do win! :)

I have really grown to become angry with companies like Medela. I did not breast feed and I pumped. If I have another child, I will give breast feeding another try. I think it is a great thing. I just started to become annoyed at these companies who claim to be strong supporters of it all the while they are talking out their asses and cashing in! If they cared so much, they would sell those pumps for a lot less.

[cosmic]

True! I love my PIS. But the most important part of it has a teeny-tiny motor and is only a few inches wide. What in the world are they charging us for?

YES, for goodness sake can someone start a new thread!!!!

Yay! Someone did. Now maybe we can get back to nursing ages. That was SO much more interesting. :)

[amygrrl]

i have a totally on topic question... for those of you who replied Never! There is no age too old.... do you really mean that? like if your 16 yr old came home from basketball practice and said, 'hey mom, i need to nurse', would you be ok with it? or do you mean only if there are developmental issues? or did you mean you don't want to say b/c that's between the mom and the kid?

[Sophia]

Coming in late, but amygrrl, as a fellow EPer who has experienced some of the same things you have, I just want to say thank you for your posts.

[mel7dog]

DH and I will be adopting our second child and please help the person who judges me without facts. Or am I suddenly supposed to lactate on demand? Does that mean that my adopted child will be less smart or less loved b/c I couldn't give her my breast?

Actually with some preparation many adoptive moms are even able to nurse their babies. Seriously that is cool! Here is some info:
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/adopt/relactation-resources.html

[Marisa]

amygrrl -- I did answer "there is no age too old" -- but I admit I wasn't thinking of 16 year olds. ;)

I was more thinking that there would never be a situation where I could say (either to someone's face or behind their backs) "That kid is too old to nurse." There's simply too much going on in that family that I'm not privy to. It's not my call.

FWIW, I have heard of and my own mom has been involved in sort of grassroots movements, women pumping for a sick baby who can only digest breastmilk. My mother pumped and donated for Lacie Smith in the early 1980's, and the only info I can find currently is that she continued to need only breastmilk until she was at least 9. If my own child was in a situation like that -- would die if she tried to digest other food -- I bet I'd be inclined to nurse for a really shocking length of time. ;)

ETA - this article from when she graduated high school in 1999 -- she was still receiving donated breastmilk though she was also able to tolerate some other food due to drug therapy: http://www.ardmoreite.com/stories/051699/new_lacie.shtml

[amygrrl]

marisa - that's what i thought. i just wasn't sure if that was really meant to mean there is no age or if it really means 'it's not my call to make'. cause i gotta admit, if my 16 yr old came home and wanted to nurse, i'd be a little freaked.

[Marisa]

Have to admit, I'm reminded of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S88LJ_--lI

(British "Meet the Parents" skit)

[yby1]

I agree 100% that breast is best BUT sh*t happens.


Exactly! I BF DS until he was 15 months old, almost 16 months old. He just wasn't interested in BF for nourishment anymore. Now, he's 17mo and I'll nurse him once maybe every 2-3 days for comfort.

I didn't encourage him to stay on the breast (but didn't discourage him either) and I did switch his daycare bottles at 12 months old from EBM to whole organic goat's milk (now organic cow's milk). I knew EBM was better, but I'll be damned if I was going to pump anymore. My poor pump was wonderful to me, but by that time, I was ready to go "office space" on it. I felt that protecting my mental well-being was important enough to give DS the inferior milk. :)

Now that he's pretty much not getting BM at all. I don't feel bad. It was a natural progression. He's been a very healthy boy and I don't feel like he's going to turn into a leper or anything like that. ;) I'm glad that there are mother's out there that can provide BM for their children until they are two, I think it's wonderful. I guess I'm a tad peeved that other mothers will actually frown on my actions.

[Sarah]

How is it a public health issue?
It really is. Our government could save over a BILLION dollars if we were to meet the Healthy People 2010 goals for BFing, which actually are still pretty modest. I don't care whether women individually or specifically BF, but I do care if BFing rates in general are low (which they are). KWIM? I wouldn't and don't judge women I see FFing or bottlefeeding, because I don't know the circumstances or the woman, but I do campaign for more women to nurse.

[bluebunny]

How is it a public health issue?

In addition to what Sarah posted, if women on WIC breastfed:

Costs to support a breastfeeding
mother in the Special Supplemental
Nutrition Program for
Women, Infants and Children
(WIC) are about 55 percent of
those for a formula-feeding mother.
• $578 million per year in federal
funds is spent by WIC to buy formula
for families who could be
breastfeeding.
• Every 10 percent increase in
breastfeeding rates among WIC
recipients would save WIC
$750,000 per year.



From http://www.usbreastfeeding.org/Issue-Papers/Economics.pdf

[cosmic]

I find this site very interesting when discussing natural weaning age

http://www.kathydettwyler.org/detwean.html


Very interesting article! (I'm just getting to read it. :) )