Charting to Avoid Volume 4 -- No babies right now!

[kemaji]

If you're just curious about charting, looking for answers about your chart, or if you are interested in joining our ranks or joining our discussion, we welcome you. (We welcome lurkers, too!) Feel free to browse through the wonderful information our resident charting "gurus" have prepared on this page and don't be afraid to ask questions!

What We Do
We are a group of women who are using charting, whether on paper and/or through a software program (Fertility Friend, Ovusoft, Babymed, etc.) to PREVENT pregnancy. Many of us have been on some form of hormonal birth control and for whatever reason, decided to stop in favor of charting our cycles. Some women here are just charting for a bit before moving to TTC in the next few months while others are using charting to avoid pregnancy longer term.

How We Learned
Aside from this thread, most of us have read the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Wechsler to learn about our cycles and how to chart. Others of us have taken classes and read the book The Art of Natural Family Planning by John and Sheila Kippley. Many of us have also read Fertility, Cycles and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon, to learn a little more how food and vitamins affect and can improve our cycles. We encourage you to read one or more of the books about charting to enhance your understanding of how you can use your body's signs for safe, effective, and relatively low cost birth control.

TTA Masters: Members, past members, and grads from WC who have successfully charted to avoid for one year or more:

akacharlotte ~ Amy_Awesome ~ ADSigMel ~ Ani ~ bijouparvin ~ Camdynlyn ~ chinadoll ~ christie1979 ~ Clattercote (2 years) ~ eagleswings ~ elizabeth&doug ~ EmilyBronte ~ flygirl ~ FSUSammy ~ Heather 8> (5 years) ~ Hammie ~ Ivansbabe ~ Jess12/09 ~ jobride ~ PugLover (JulAmber) ~ JulesHK ~ JulesWed1025 ~ kanga1622 (2 years) ~ kemaji (2 years) ~ kissmary ~ Leilynne ~ Lege ~ LeslieandPaul (2 years) ~ LIZNKEITH ~ Mamacita ~ meagle (3 years) ~ mistytsim ~ mmeblue ~ motray36 ~ MrsKinnison ~ myhoni ~ Mystikal ~ PalmBch2002 ~ quartercentury (2 years) ~ Rach_in_Oz (2 years) ~ Reenie ~ Sabriel748 ~ sensibility ~ Sevilla (2 years) ~ sfaugustbride ~ sheartm7 ~ southerner ~ tgr68 (4 years) ~ tippyanddennis ~ tlew12778 (2 years) ~ TStanek

[kemaji]

Charting can seem overwhelming at first--so much information, confusing body signs, and worries about whether getting up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom will affect your temps.

We've all been there--it's normal to feel concerned that you're not going to be able to interpret your body. We all felt the same way the first cycle or two. But as you go you will gain confidence in your ability to interpret your fertility signs, and you'll find yourself knowing the answer to people's questions on this thread.

You may also be surprised at how excited you get about the project of charting because of how much you learn about your body. As I like to say, "It's so interesting isn't it? Like this science experiment you constantly have with you to monitor!"

These next few posts are full of important information about charting. If the explanations seem confusing or overwhelming at first, don't let that scare you away from the thread. They are here for those of us in the thread to refer back to when we have questions or are explaining something.

Just because there's a brief explanation of checking CM or how to find your cervix does not mean that you shouldn't post questions about it. Please feel free to ask us if you're trying to figure something out (like whether the CM you're having is considered 'fertile') and we'll be happy to help you. The ladies on this thread are super-friendly and love answering questions.

This thread can seem intimidating once it gets to a few hundred posts. But please don't let that stop you from joining! You don't have to catch up on the whole thread, just read the first page and then post to introduce yourself, whether it be page 5 or page 35.

Special thanks to Sevilla, Heather8^), meagle and myhoni for their assistance in developing these information posts.

[kemaji]

To start charting you will need a basal body thermometer (available at your local drugstore and Drugstore.com BBT for $12.79)

http://a1468.g.akamai.net/f/1468/580/1d/pics.drugstore.com/prodimg/40512/300.jpg

Internet Resources:

Printable charts
NFP and TCOYF charts are available online for on-demand printing. You need Adobe Reader to access them:
NFP chart (http://www.ccli.org/images/ccchrt1.pdf)
TCOYF (http://tcoyf.com/library/chartpdf.asp)

Family Planning Abbreviations and Acronyms (http://boards.weddingcha nnel.com/showthread.php?s=& ;threadid=364548&highlight =abbreviations)

Charting Software:
Discussion of various charting programs
DISCLAIMER: These programs should not be relied upon to interpret your chart for you. Very often they miscalculate the day of ovulation and the coverline. You need to learn the method well enough to calculate your coverline and ovulation days because ultimately YOU are responsible for taking charge of your fertility.
www.fertilityfriend.com
www.tcoyf.com
www.babymed.com

Message boards, chart galleries, and other resources:
TCOYF Message Boards (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/)
www.fertilityfriend.com
www.ccli.org NFP~Natural Family Planning. The Couple to Couple League website - includes links to charting classes in your area

Search for Charting-Friendly Healthcare Providers
TCOYF (http://tcoyf.com/protcoyf/search.asp)
NFP (http://www.omsoul.com/)

Explanations of Charting
Helping identify the Changes in CM (http://www.fertilityuk.org/nfps401.html)
Different CF/CM Types (http://www.webwomb.com/cervical_mucus_page.htm)
Charting 'cliff notes' site (http://www.fertilityuk.org/nfps25.html)
Garden of Fertility (http://www.gardenoffertility.com/)

[kemaji]

You will want to purchase one (or both) of these books to help you learn the method of charting. If possible, you may find that taking classes from the Couple to Couple League or other organizations that teach charting (listed in the appendixes of TCOYF) is very helpful. Taking classes can help you to learn to chart more effectively, plus you have expert instructors to advise you about your charts and answer your questions.

Reviews of NFP/TCOYF Books by Sevilla
Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=EY7nd3rBoX&isbn=0060937645&itm=1)

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/5400000/5401941.gif

Pro's:
* Very comprehensive book that focuses not just on charting but on female health in general, including fertility problems, pregnancy, understanding the menstrual cycle, and overall gynecological health.
* Written in layman's terms for good reader comprehension
* The explanation of how to expel semen through Kegels was very helpful
* Excellent list of resources and nutritional considerations to aid in cycle regularity and pregnancy
* Chapter on medications that can interfere with fertility signs
* How to adjust temps (+/-.1 degrees F per half hour) is very helpful
* Color photos of different types of CM help to interpret it

Cons:
* The rules for determining pre-o safe days are too limited-Not every woman can use the Dry Day Rule unless she gets at least 5 days of fertile mucus. If you're one of the people who only get 1-2 days of fertile mucus, then you could potentially have sex just a day or two before ovulation--and get pregnant.
* The explanation of the rules for determining post-o infertility is not specific enough and readers of the book could misunderstand it. I have had cycles in which I was at Peak Day +4/5 when I had a temp rise, and following her rules I could have gotten pregnant. It should more strongly emphasize that you need both the drying up and 3 days of temp rise to be safe (it does say this, but I thought it was a bit ambiguous).
* Not enough explanation of method effectiveness depending on which rule is used


The Art of Natural Family Planning by John & Sheila Kippley (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=EY7nd3rBoX&isbn=0926412132&itm=1)

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/1720000/1727057.gif

Pro's:
* This is the more technical manual about charting, it's is very specifically focused on teaching the method with scientific language
* It devotes 150 pages just to the basics of charting, not including the additional 200 pages on special situations, pregnancy, and cycle irregularity.
* Very specific rules and methods: 4 different rules to determine your last safe day for unprotected sex pre-o, and 4 different rules to determine your post-o infertility (this lets you choose which rules work best with your body)
* 24 "practice" charts (actual examples of women's charts) with complete explanations and interpretations that cover the whole range of situations encountered
* Detailed explanation of the Last Dry Day Rule (see below for the entire explanation)
* 20 page explanation of effectiveness rates for each individual rule (there's a higher pregnancy rate with using the Last Dry Day rule than using the 5 day rule)
* Excellent list of resources and nutritional considerations to aid in cycle regularity and pregnancy
* Chapter on medications that can interfere with fertility signs

Cons:
* Doesn't address disorders like Endometriosis or PCOS.
* Very dogmatic in its discussion of the "immorality of contraception" and sexual morality from a Catholic perspective
* Information presented in a very technical manner-may be daunting to someone just learning the method

Fertility, Cycles & Nutrition (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=EY7nd3rBoX&isbn=0926412094&itm=1)

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/5020000/5021060.gif

This book examines the ways that nutrition and vitamins affect the fertility cycle. Many women on this thread have helped to regulate their hormones and cycles by following the suggestions in this book and it is very insightful into how our everyday decisions about what to eat affects our fertility and cycles.

[kemaji]

Figuring out your Cervical Mucus/Fluid

Dry:
1. Stick a finger in your mouth. Now look at it--this is what it means to be "dry." Your vagina always produces fluid that keeps it clean, this is different from the cervical mucus described below.
2. On dry days you will not have any CM in your undies.

Less-fertile mucus (can be part of BIP-Basic Infertile Pattern or can indicate that you are fertile):
1. Sticky/Tacky CM: Stretches 1/2" or less before breaking. The strands that stretch are very thin.
2. Globby CM (this is my special name for it ): White globs that form little peaks when i stretch my fingers apart. Varies in quantity from almost none to a good amount. Always visible dried in my undies in rectangular/lines like described in TCOYF.

Fertile Mucus: Once you have any type in this category consider yourself fertile until your after your temperature rises--even if your fertile CM dries up for a few days. Stretchiness is very important in determining fertile CM. If in doubt, ask us and we'll help you with your chart!
1. Stretchy Mucus: Stretches 1" or more.
2. EWCM Mucus: Stretches a LOT (up to several inches) and is also very wide when I separate my fingers. Very similar to egg white.
3. Watery: I only see this in my underwear when I’m fertile. It looks like I've "leaked" but I know it's CM. It makes wet circles just like TCOYF describes.
4. Creamy: Looks like runny hand lotion. I get this in my underwear and it forms white spots or patches in my undies and they are sometimes in the middle of watery CM in my undies.

Peak Day: Peak Day is what lets you use your mucus sign to figure out your infertile period after ovulating. Your peak day is your last day of more-fertile mucus before you start drying up. It is NOT necessarily the day with the greatest quantity or quality of mucus, just your last day before you start drying up (meaning you may still have mucus, it will just be tacky instead of EWCM). You only know your Peak Day in hindsight, for obvious reasons. The reason it's useful is that you crosscheck your thermal shift with your peak-day to make sure you're past your fertile stage so you can have unprotected sex.

Figuring out your cervix
Some women find it helpful to use their cervical position (CP) as a third sign in addition to CM and temperatures. If you do not find it helpful or your cervix does not seem to follow a pattern, don't worry about it. You don't have to use your CP and you will still be able to chart effectively.

For those who are interested in charting their CP...here's some advice for common questions:

1. I can't find my cervix!: Just like putting in a tampon for the first time, finding your cervix takes a few tries. Here are some tips:
* Your cervix is the only thing "up there" so if your fingers are touching something, congratulate yourself on finding your cervix.
* Angle is very important-Aim back at an angle for your tailbone instead of straight up and you will find it much more quickly. After charting for 7 months, I still sometimes I feel like I have to search around for it for a few seconds--but that's only when i put my fingers in at the wrong angle.
* Check it during the afternoon or evening (it may be difficult to find in the morning because lying flat while sleeping makes it higher until gravity brings it back down)
* During certain parts of your cycle it may be too high to reach so if you can't find it, try again in a few days.

2. So I've found it, now what? It will take a few cycles to learn your cervix pattern. There are three different changes a cervix undergoes (find which changes are most obvious in your cervix and disregard those that don't seem to correspond):
* Firm to Soft: A firm cervix feels like the tip of your nose, a soft cervix feels like your lips. When your cervix softens this may mean that you are fertile or soon to be fertile. Your cervix may also feel soft right after AF.
* Low to High: Around the time of ovulation the cervix gets higher and after ovulation it drops down to a lower position.
* Closed to Open: If you have not delivered a baby, then you might not be able to feel the difference between closed and open. The cervix opens slightly right around ovulation and closes very tight after ovulation.

[kemaji]

TCOYF Rules for determining safe days for sex Pre-Ovulation

Rule 1: You are safe the first 5 days of your menstrual cycle if you had a thermal shift 12-16 days before (this is so that you don't confuse menstruation with spotting or other non-menstrual bleeding)

Rule 2: Before Ovulation you are safe the evening of every dry day.

In order to use this rule, you need to have at least a 5-day patch of fertile cervical mucus (or if you have mucus all the time like me, at least a 5 day patch of more FERTILE mucus). It is better if you have a 6 or more day patch, but 5 is the bare minimum. (you need at least 6 charts to tell if you get this much fertile CM as a warning-many women only get 2 or 3 days, which is normal but not enough warning for this rule).

The Last Dry Day rule says that you can consider yourself infertile as long as you don't have any mucus (or fertile mucus). Checking your mucus is very important, because the sperm lives less than 24 hours in a non-fertile environment but in fertile mucus they live for up to 5 days-some super-swimmers for even longer. This rule works best if you do your cervical mucus checks INTERNALLY.

If you are going to use the Last Dry Day rule, there are some particular rules to follow so that you don't misread your signs:
1. Don't have sex 2 days in a row-just every other day. This is so your CM sign isn't obscured by semen residue (SR). (Unless you expel the semen like Toni says in TCOYF and there's no residue the next day to obscure your CM sign)
2. Don't have unprotected sex in the mornings. The reason for this is that your mucus flow may start that day, and you wouldn't have been able to tell it in the morning, and thus the sperm could still have a chance of surviving and catching the egg.

NFP Rules for determining safe days for sex Pre-Ovulation
1. 6 Day Rule: Almost all women can use this unless you have cycles 25 days or shorter (in which case you go to only CD5). It says that you can have unprotected sex the first 6 days of the cycle (CD1 starts with the 1st day of AF).
***You can use the 6-day rule right away. However, you should not go beyond it until you have a few charts to reference. Be especially careful not to take chances your first cycle off of BCP, as many women are extra-fertile in that cycle.***

2. 20 Day rule (requires at least 6-12 charts for accuracy): Take your shortest cycle and subtract 20, the answer is your last "safe day." Example: If my cycles range from 30-36 days. 30-20=10. Thus, CD10 is my last day to have unprotected sex.

3. The Doering Rule = earliest day of thermal shift -7. (Requires 6 regular(!) charts, ideally 12 charts) Using your chart history, locate the earliest day of thermal shift. Subtract 7 from the day and that is your last fertile day.
Example: If you have 32-36 day cycles and your thermal shift has been between cycle days 20-24, CD20 is your earliest day of thermal shift. 20-7 is 13. Thus, CD13 would be considered your last infertile day (Last day of Phase I in NFP book).

All the rules for determining "safe sex" times pre-O are subordinate to the Last Dry Day rule. You are still supposed to start checking CM by CD6 (according to the NFP book) while you rely on the other rules. If you get fertile CM super-early it takes precedence over everything else because sometimes our bodies do randomly ovulate earlier than normal.

4. Last Dry Day Rule (most popular rule b/c it makes the fertile window a lot shorter. BUT it also has a higher pregnancy rate than the other rules).

In order to use this rule, you need to have at least a 5-day mucus patch (or if you have mucus all the time like me, at least a 5 day patch of more FERTILE mucus). It is better if you have a 6 or more day patch, but 5 is the bare minimum. (you need at least 6 charts to tell if you get this much fertile CM as a warning-many women only get 2 or 3 days, which is normal but not enough warning for this rule).

The Last Dry Day rule says that you can consider yourself infertile as long as you don't have any mucus (or fertile mucus). Checking your mucus is very important, because the sperm lives less than 24 hours in a non-fertile environment but in fertile mucus they live for up to 5 days. This rule works best if you do your cervical mucus checks INTERNALLY.

If you are going to use the Last Dry Day rule, there are some particular rules to follow so that you don't misread your signs:
1. Don't have sex 2 days in a row-just every other day. This is so your CM sign isn't obscured by semen residue (SR). (Unless you expel the semen like Toni says in TCOYF and there's no residue the next day to obscure your CM sign)
2. Don't have unprotected sex in the mornings. The reason for this is that your mucus flow may start that day, and you wouldn't have been able to tell it in the morning, and thus the sperm could still have a chance of surviving and catching the egg.

TCOYF Rules for Post-Ovulation

Rule 3: You are safe the evening of the third day your temperature is above the coverline.

Rule 4: You are safe the evening of the 4th consecutive day after your Peak day.

**Both rules have to be met to be considered 'safe,' if you're going to go by temps alone you should have 4-5 days of thermal shift (according to the NFP book)**

NFP rules for Post-Ovulation (Phase III)

Each rule involves a combination of temp rises and CM dry up. Also, these rules presuppose determining your coverline by NFP rules instead of TCOYF rules.

These rules (except the most conservative Rule C) are based on the principle that the stronger the thermal shift, the fewer days of drying up required. Conversely, the weaker the thermal shift, the more days of drying up required.

Because each woman has a different CM and temp pattern, these rules allow you to choose the one that fits YOUR pattern. (For me, I use Rule B because I dry up 2-4 days before my thermal shift and have a gradual rise)

Rule C (most conservative): The 3rd day or more of Full Thermal Shift cross-checked by 4 or more days of drying-up, whichever comes later.

Rule K (more emphasis on full thermal shift): The 3rd day of Full Thermal Shift cross-checked by 2-3 days of drying up past Peak Day.

Rule R: The 3rd day of drying up past Peak Day cross-checked by 3 consecutive days of strong thermal shift past Peak Day.

Rule B (more emphasis on the drying up): The 4th day (or more) of drying up past Peak Day cross-checked by 3 (or more) days of Overall (or Strong) Thermal Shift past Peak Day.

Definitions:
1. Full Thermal Shift: Three or more consecutive days of temps which are at least .4 degrees above your lower temp level (pre-O temps)
2. Strong Thermal Shift: Temperatures on three consecutive days are at least .2 degrees above your lower temp level and the last temp is at or above .4 degrees over your lower temp level
3. Overall Thermal Shift (Gradual): Three or more temps are at least .1 degrees above the lower temp level, they are in a rising or elevated pattern, and at least one of them reaches at or above .4 degrees over your lower temp level.

Temperature Only Rule ("Coming off the Pill" rule): You can safely have sex on the evening of the 5th day of thermal shift when the last three temperatures are on consecutive days and are at least .3 degrees above your pre-O temperature level.

Coverlines

How to draw a coverline according to NFP:

1. Look at the six temps that you had before your temp rise, take the highest of those temps and draw a line across your chart - this is your low temperature level (LTL). (For me, my low temp level is always 98.0. My pre-shift 6 could be 98.0, 97.7, 97.8, 98.0, 97.9, and 97.7 and then i would draw the line at 98.0). Your pre-o temps should mostly fall at or below this low temp level, though there are exceptions like high temps during AF and a pre-shift spike
2. To determine your high temp level (HTL), and thus your thermal shift, draw a line .4 degree above your low temp level (For me, my low temp level of 98.0 gives me a high temp level of 98.4)
**A gradual thermal rise is one that doesn't reach to the high temp level right away, but the temps are above your low temp level

This is how I calculate my coverline, though my NFP book refers only to low temp level and high temp level. I have no idea how FF calculates my coverline but it doesn't make sense to me because it's always really low, like this month it says its 97.7, although my low temp level is 98.0 using the method described above.

How to draw a coverline according to TCOYF

1. Identify the first day your temp rises at least two-tenths of a degree higher than it had been the previous six days.
2. Highlight the last six temps before the rise.
3. Locate the highest of those six highlighted temps.
4. Draw the coverline one-tenth of a degree above the highest of that cluster of six days preceding the rise.

[kemaji]

What to expect when charting after taking the pill

Your body may hold on to some of the hormones from the pill, so it is generally accepted that the first three cycles post-pill may be slightly wacky because of these remaining hormones. After the 3-month mark, it is assumed that these hormones are gone, and any chart wackiness that remains is au natural.

Seriously speaking, some of the things that you may see include inconsistent CM observations or observations that don't make much sense (e.g., continuous creamy CM, patches of EWCM at different parts of your cycle, mid-cycle spotting, etc.). Also, you may ovulate right on schedule; however, several women also experience short, long, or anovulatory cycles right off the pill.

If you see these things happen in your first few charts, pay them no attention. Don't think that the pill has permanently damaged you (in 99% of cases of anovulatory cycles post-pill, the pill is NOT to blame), and don't worry that you may be observing your signs incorrectly. You could be 100% correct, but your body may be giving you a pretty hard exam! If these symptoms continue after charting for a while, then you may want to talk to us, do your own research, and talk to your doctor if they concern you because they may be symptoms of other things such as PCOS, etc.

There are other things that you may notice once you're off the pill that are relatively common. Many women experience some random spotting, weight loss, heavier or longer-lasting periods; more painful cramps; increased severity of other PMS symptoms such as bloating, irritability, sore breasts; changed skin characteristics (more/less acne or natural oils), etc. However, you'll also learn more about your body and your fertility and have a much clearer idea of what is going on at every step than you ever knew before!

Also, realize that the pill really has not permanently changed your body, and the cycle characteristics that you had BEFORE the pill are most likely going to return. That's why many women experience the aforementioned symptoms (because the hormones in the pill lessened the symptoms you had before). Also, if you had irregular cycles before, they will probably come back; but this time, through charting, you will know what is going on!

If there's one thing you will learn in this thread, it is that everybody and every body is different. Try not to compare your charts too much to others, especially in the first months after the pill because those charts are not entirely reliable. Use this time as an opportunity to practice checking the fertility signs and to learn as much as you can, and then use charts 4-6 to get a strong handle on your individual signs, what they mean, and how to use them to avoid pregnancy.

[kemaji]

What to do with irregular sleeping schedules

Do you always get up at 4:00am to go to the bathroom? Does your DH wake up before you and interrupt your sleep? Is the dog full of energy and very LOUD for 1/2 hour before the alarm goes off?

Worry not! The general consensus around here is that these things are bound to happen. Yes, TCOYF recommends that you take your temperature at the exact same time every morning, before getting out of bed, after at least 3 hours of uninterrupted sleep, and under the same sleeping conditions every night. This helps you get the most accurate temperatures, and can make your chart much easier to read.

Here in the real world, we realize this isn't always possible. So, our advice is as follows:

Whatever you do, try your hardest to be consistent. Do make a big effort to temp at the same time every day, and mark your chart if you temp early or later than usual. If the goodbye kiss from your DH wakes you up 1/2 hour before your alarm does (and you temp after the alarm), just make sure he kisses you every day!

Also, do temp before getting out of bed. Most of us have noticed that our temps do NOT change that much by an emergency potty break, but it's best to get it done before you get out of bed to eliminate the risk of noise and of accidentally forgetting!

Do use a basal body thermometer, and use the same thermometer every time, even when traveling. This reduces any "noise" that you may get from thermometers with slightly different calibrations.

Mark your chart with anything out of the norm. If it was extra cold out and you used an additional blanket, note that on your chart. If your pajamas were in the wash and you slept nude, note that on your chart. Did you go out to party and went to bed super late last night? Write it down. Did you have any drinks yesterday at that party? Definitely write that down! Some of these things make a BIG difference on your chart, and you'll rest easier and we'll be better able to interpret that chart knowing what was going on.

Lastly, don't worry if you forget one temp or sleep in late once or twice. It happens, and it rarely makes your chart totally useless. But remember that the most and best info that you can get really helps avoid stress later. (And if we're talking about the different between a BFN and a BFP, the LAST thing we need is more stress!)

[kemaji]

Software analysis
based on meagle's use of each for several months

Fertility Friend
Pros
*Basic service is free and you can access it from any computer
*In recording the cervix sign, there are separate options for high/medium/low and soft/medium/firm (this can be more accurate and also help beginners who can only ascertain one of the two parts of the cervix sign)
*It is easy to override
*There are more options for other factors/symptoms – you can record alcohol use, exercise, headaches, cramps, etc.
*There is a choice for “watery” CM, which is a fertile type that is kind of creamy, kind of EW

Cons
*It is designed for women seeking pregnancy
*Only two charts can be posted at one time for those choosing the free service
*VIP service is more expensive than Ovusoft (but VIP is not necessary or recommended for TTAers)

Ovusoft
Pros
*It is for women who are avoiding or seeking pregnancy – you can set it to show when your fertile time starts (based on last dry day rule, first five day rule, your typical CM pattern, etc. – however, remember not to totally trust the software for post-O fertility/infertility!)
*You can show whether intercourse was protected or unprotected
*There are features to calculate future fertility (cycle forecasting) and best time to conceive based upon a preferred due date (delivery planner)
*The graphics are cool
*The rules the software follows are more closely linked to TCOYF, since the software was developed for this purpose
*There are reports you can print for your doctor, etc.
*All of your charts can be posted at once
*There is a pop-up box each day that details what is happening (hormonally) in your body depending upon where you are in your cycle
*There is a pop-up reminder to do a monthly breast self-exam
*You record your CM and your vaginal sensation (dry, moist, wet, lubricative)

Cons
*It costs about $40
*You have to find it on the internet on CD-ROM or download it
*The program runs from your hard drive and you “publish” your charts – if you are away from home and don’t have a laptop, there is no way to update your charts until you get back to YOUR computer with YOUR database
*The cervix sign combines both aspects, that is low=firm, medium=medium, high=soft
*It is not compatible with Macintosh/Apple
*It is more difficult to override calculations
*Your database could be wiped out (like any document on your HD) so you need to back it up frequently
*There are fewer choices for other factors affecting one’s chart – no choice for headache, cramps, etc.
*You must have Java scripts enabled to view others' web-based charts

Summary reviewWhat finally made me switch was the recent update in Ovusoft’s software which made it possible to publish protected intercourse versus unprotected intercourse, some pressure I got from ladies on the Ovusoft boards (they’re a different bunch than the WC crowd), and the fact that I’m in this charting thing for the long haul – I will be TTA for at least two more years and then I will use charting to TTC. It seemed like a worthwhile investment, especially since it was only a bit less than two months of BCP copays. Fertility Friend is a good service for sharing one’s charts with others on the thread, but it you’re enticed by cool graphics, reports, features, etc. – then you’ll get tired of it pretty quickly.
04.2004

If you choose not to chart online, here are a couple links to places where you can download printable charts:

http://www.fertilitynetwork.com/ovulation/ovulation-calendars.htm
http://www.babycentre.co.uk/general/7069.html
http://www.babycenter.com/general/preconception/gettingpregnant/7069.html

[kemaji]

The manager for this thread is kemaji.

If you have stat changes or want to add to your stats, please use this format to the extent you wish to disclose your info:

screen name/chart link (if applicable/wanting link) Post both WC & LJ names if different
Real name: ___ (age)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: ___ (age)
Occupation: ___
Married (date of or date planned): ___
Started charting (date, if known): ___
TTC: _date_ if known

Please post updates in red so they are visible to the thread managers.

If you have previously been a member and you do not see your stats on this list just repost them in the current thread and you’ll be added again.

How to share your TTA chart with the rest of us

That is, if you don’t mind potential chart stalkers

How To Link Ovusoft Charts
From the software, go to File --> Publish Charts to Web --> WebCharts Publishing Wizard

Follow instructions to set up online account (username and password), then when complete, you will see a screen that gives the location of your web charts (for if you want to put it in your signature, etc.).

Every time you update your chart (or once a day or once a week) from now on, just go to File --> Publish Charts to Web --> Quickie! and it will update your web chart with the new information.

You may link your chart in your siggy, and/or ask to have it linked through your name on the roll call on page 1 of this thread.

How to upload Fertility Friend
Login to FF, you should be in "My Chart". Click on the "Sharing” button (4th button on the top). From there, click on the "Home Page/Ticker Setup" button. Scroll down to the bottom of the page, there will be a box on the right hand side that says "Available Charts". Double click on your current chart, then hit the button that says "Add Chart". Page should refresh automatically, and your chart should now be in a box on the left side (on the bottom of the page). At the top of the page, you'll see a red URL. That's the link to your home page, with your pretty chart on it. It's yours for the copying. Make sure that you click "Save Settings" if you make any changes to the settings.

Also in the home page, you can change any settings, like to publish DTD or not. If you want to let everyone see when you've made a note in your chart (where a circle becomes a square) click on the “My Settings" tab.

What do all those letters mean?

Most commonly used abbreviations in here:

Anti-grad: Is a person who was TTA and became pregnant. In the history of this group (started Fall 2002) we have never had someone become pregnant when following the rules. Every one of our antigrads can point to the rule(s) they broke when they conceived their bundles of joy and they're the first to say that charting does work!
AF: Aunt Flow, your period. Lovely monthly (or nearly monthly) visitor, at least if you are TTA.
BC: Birth Control
BD: Baby-Dancing (sex). You'll see this term in the older threads... now we use DTD since we don't wanna be making no babies in the TTA thread!!
CM: Cervical Mucus or fluid, also used for Creamy cervical mucus
CP: Cervical Position
DPO: Days Past Ovulation, or days into the luteal phase.
DTD: Doing The Deed! (sex for fun, not baby-making)
EWCM: Egg-White Cervical Mucus, the most fertile type
HPT: Home Pregnancy Test
FAM: Fertility Awareness Method, charting and using BC during the fertile period
FF: Fertility Friend (www.fertilityfriend.com), which is a free on-line charting service. You can also have VIP privileges for a fee.**
Graduate: A person who successfully TTAs and then moves on to TTC.
LP: luteal phase, or the time after ovulation. This is usually determined by the time between the beginning of your thermal shift through the arrival of your period.
NFP: Natural Family Planning, same as FAM but involves abstaining during the fertile period
O: Ovulation
pg: Pregnant
POAS: Pee On A Stick (that is, take an HPT)
TCOYF: Taking Charge of Your Fertility
TTA: Trying To Avoid (makin' babies or getting pregnant)
TTC: Trying To Conceive
UDD: Unprotected Deed-Doing. That is, sex with no other form of birth control other than FAM. A true sign of a confident TTAer! ONLY DURING THE INFERTILE TIME (unless you want to be an antigrad)

[kemaji]

Who We Are


21daisygurl
Real name: Aislinn (28)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Keith (31)
Occupation: Registered nurse in research and going to Grad School
Married: June 3, 2006
Started charting (date, if known): July 23, 2006
TTC: August 2008

aam64 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/16bd64)
Real name: Alicia (24)
DH's name: Mike (28)
Occupation: Me-Research Assistant/Dietitian; DH-coffeehouse owner
Married: 6/4/04
Started charting: 10/13/06
TTC: Late 2007/Early 2008 hopefully!

abear (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/cde5c)
Real name: Alyssa (25)
DH's name: Paul (26)
Occupation: creative manager
Married: July 10, 2004
Started charting: July 2005
TTC: Late 2007-2008

AHammer (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ahammer)
Real name: amy (23)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: michael (22)
Occupation: teacher
Married (date of or date planned): july 30, 2005
Started charting (date, if known): october 4, 2005
TTC: summer of 2008

akacharlotte (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/dd10b)
Real name: Stacey(34)
BF's name: Jason (31)
Occupation: Insurance Claims
Married: May 2007
Started charting (date, if known): 01/06
Occupation: Insurance claims
TTC: May 2007

Aletheia (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/a0c60)
'Real' name: Aletheia (29)
DH's name: Dr. Ramsey (30)
Occupation: Grad Student, SAHM
Married: 8/7/04
Started charting: March 2005
TTC: 2008?

aligirl (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/ali)
Real name: Ali (26)
DH name: Jay (28)
Occupation: Estimator
Married: 5/31/03
Started charting: February 2005
TTC: winter 2007 (for #2)
Children: Alexander, 1/22/06

angelpalgt (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/105b00)
Real name: Kendra (25)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Josh (25)
Occupation: User Experience Developer/Project Liaison
Married (date of or date planned): 05/17/2003
Started charting (date, if known):12/12/2005
TTC: someday

angelraven (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/c822b)
Real name: Heather (22)
FH's name: Matt (22)
Occupation: Network Administrator (me) Programmer (him)
Married: July 31st, 2004
Started Charting: July 2005
TTC: End of 2006?

Belm
Brenna (28)
Hubby: Christian (28)
Occupation: PR
Married (date of or date planned): 4/26/03
Started charting (date, if known): 3/7/07
TTC: Possibly June/July of 07

blondeinnyc (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/14532e)
Me: 29
DH: 29
Married: Oct 2002
Started Charting: July 06
TTC: May/June 07?

candy corn (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/108b75)
Real name: Diane (26)
DH's name: TJ (26)
Occupation: cancer researcher
Married: October 22, 2005
Started charting: December 21, 2005
TTC: 2011

catch
Real name: Nancy (25)
DH: Rob (27)
Occupation: legal asst
Married: 7/02/06
Started charting: 9/15/06
TTC: 2011??

chinadoll (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/7e2e1)
Ovusoft Chart (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=china%5Fdoll)
Name: Rachel (27)
DH: Graham (28)
occupation: part-time grad student, part-time librarian
married: October 16, 2004
started charted: December 2004
TTC: undecided

Cindym
Real name: Cindy (26)
DH's name: Louie (31)
Occupation: paralegal
Married : January 17, 2004
Started charting : Will start April, 2006
TTC: don't know yet

dana92504 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/DanaFFChart)
Real name: Dana (24)
DH: Chad (25)
Occupation: Chemical Engineer
Married: 9.25.04
Started charting: August 2005
TTC: probably nevah!

e&d (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/26dc5)
Real name: Elizabeth (31)
DH: Doug (49)
Occupation: Work PT, SAHM PT
Married: 10.12.02
Started charting: 6.03
TTC: 2007/2008?
Children: Leo, 11.25.05

EmilyBronte (also EmilyBronte on LJ)
Age: 29
DH: 37
DS: JFK, born 1/5/05
Occupation: SAHM for now
Married: June 12, 2004
Started charting: Feb 2004 with break for TTC and baby, began again March 2005
TTC: Sometime in 2007 - 2008

heather1029 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/166fc1)
Real name: Heather (24)
DH's name: Jeff (24)
Occupation: Marketing in beauty industry
Married : 10/29/05
Started charting : October 2006
TTC: 8/07

HisSpicy (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/e2063)
Real name: Natalie (21)
FH's name: Rodney (23)
Occupation: Student
FH's Occupation: Student and Auto Detailer
Married: 2009
Started charting: 9/4/05
TTC: Long time from now!

indiansummer (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/31c13)
Me: 28 (almost 29)
DH: 35
Married: 8/03
TTA: since October '04
Charting since: August '06
TTC: summer '07

jnettie
Real name: Jeanette, 28
DH's name: Cory, 28
Occupation: Me - Costume Designer, DH - PhD student/college teacher
Married : June 25, 2005
Started charting : January 2007
TTC: undecided

JubileeDawning
Real name: Melissa (21)
DH's name: Ryan (24)
Occupation: Grad Student and Waitress
Married: May 28, 2005
Started charting: April 18, 2006
TTC: Someday in the distant future

katiej (http://www.tcoyf.com/forum/chart.asp?id=knadikj)
Real name: Katie (23)
DH: Pedro (20)
Occupation: teacher
Married: 22 December 2005
Started charting: 11 September 2005
TTC: hmm...whenever insurance covers it...!

kemaji (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=kemaji)
Name: M (29)
DH's name: B (32)
Occupation: Marketing
Married: July 3, 2005
Started charting (date, if known): September 2004
TTC: 2008

kissmary (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/112767)
Real name: Mary (27)
DH's name: John (29)
Occupation: Librarian
Married : June 26, 2004
Started charting: July 2005
TTC: ??

KRL626
Real name: Kate (27)
DH's name: Ricardo (27)
Occupation: Teacher
Married 6/26/04
Started Charting: Nov. 04
TTC: Aug/Sept. 07

ktdelsur
Real name: Katie (27)
DH: Ben (28)
Occupation: healthcare marketing/DH-grad student
Married: 8/2/03
Started charting: June 2004, got PG March 2005, have had BCP issues ever since baby - officially will start charting 9/8/06
Children: Andrew 12/5/05
TTC: Probably not until 2008

ktina0803
Real name: Kristina(25)
DH's name: Cory (25)
Occupation: Accountant
Married: 08/09/03
Started charting: 11/17/05
TTC: not for a long time

ladybug1196 (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=ladybug1196)
Real name: Lesley(23)
DH's name: Mike (24)
DD: Lily Janette, 5/9/05
Occupation: SAHM
Married: July 10, 2004
Started charting (date, if known): 11/28/05
TTC: not really sure...maybe late 2007, early 2008

Leilynne
Name: Leilynne (23)
DH: Jon
Occupation: Dietary Aide
Married: May 12 2001
Started charting : March 1, 2004
TTC Date: Never

LeslieandPaul (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/977c7)
me: Leslie, 22, receptionist
DH: Paul, 29, technologist
married: August 20, 2005
started charting: March 2005
TTC: 2007?!

lil_geek (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/15c0db)
Real name: Tara (28)
DH's name: Terry (26)
Occupation: Internet Programmer
Married : May 13, 2006
Started charting : September 19, 2006
TTC: Spring/Summer 2007

LIZNKEITH (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/30d9c)
Real name: Liz (27)
DH: Keith (36)
Occupation: Claims Asst.
Married: July 28, 2001
Children: Caroline (6/15/05)
Started charting: April 2003
TTC: January 2007

[kemaji]

Who we are, continued

mamacita (27)
DH: 25
Kids: 2 dds born August '01 and April '05
Started charting: March 2003
TTC: I think we're done.

Marcilla (LJ)
Real name: Marcilla (25)
DH: Bill (26)
Occupation: Executive Recruiting/DH-Software Test Lead
Married: 8/6/05
Started charting: Sept. 2006
TTC: Likely not until late 2008

meggers (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/9577d)
Real name: Meghan (27)
DH'sname: Jeff (26)
Occupation: Engineer
Married: 6/15/2002
Started charting: 2/2005 (originally), 6/14/2006 (after baby)
TTC: late 2007-2008

meagle (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=martese)
Me = 29
DH = 30
Occupation - Non-profit/manager
Married - May 2000
Started charting - July 2003
TTC date = Late 2006 or early 2007

MizLarner (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/993ed)
Real name: Ces (24 - soon)
DH's/ name: Jason (26)
Occupation: Student teacher
Married: 9/13/03
Started charting (date, if known): Jan 2005
TTC: Aug. 2007

MLA (31)
DH's name: DH (28)
Occupation: Arts Management
Married: June 19, 2004
Started charting (date, if known): October 2006
TTC: June or July 2007

motray36 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/MyFFChart)
Real name: Tracy (26)
DH'sname: Keith (26)
Occupation: Marketing/Event Planning
Married (date of or date planned): 6/25/04
Started charting (date, if known): 9/30/04
TTC: 7/07

Natrat80 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/4562c)
Name: Natalie 26
DH's name: Keri 27
Occupation: SAHM
Married : May 25, 2002
Started Charting: March 2004 (took a break to get pg) & June 2006
TTC: 2007

Pookie Princess (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=pookie%20princess)
Kristi: 28
Sean: 30
Teacher
Married : 10/29/05
Last BCP: 6/2/06
Started charting: 6/5/06
TTC: Summer 2007

portlandbride
Real name: Brandi (33)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Preston (31)
Occupation: Full-time Mommy right now, Director of HR in a previous life
Married: 9/16/01
Started charting: Soon
TTC: Unknown if we will try for a third

PugLover (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/25e5a) (formerly JulAmber)
Real name: Julia, 27
DH's name: Josh, 28
Occupation: Office Coordinator at an Ad Agency
Married: April 20, 2002
Started charting: June 2002
TTC: not sure I will

Saathei/pleiades829 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/4a9b2)
Real name: Elizabeth (23)
DH's name: Orion (25)
DDs: Thalia & Michaya, 11 months
Occupation: Student/SAHM
Married (date of or date planned): August 29, 2003
Started charting (date, if known): April '04 (but stopped after getting pg [ON PURPOSE] in September '04)
TTC: 2008 at the earliest, probably 2010

sarahburns
Real name: Sarah Burns, 25
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Jon
Occupation: non-profit MKTG/PR
Married (date of or date planned): June 4, 2005
Started charting (date, if known): April 2, 2006
TTC: unknown

sdauer21 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/6adf9) (spedtchr on LJ)
Real name: Sonya (32)
DH's: Will (31)
Occupation: Teacher
Married: August 31, 2002
DD's: Tallia (1/14/03), Abigail (7/26/05)
Started charting: November 2005 (charted from Aug - Nov. '04, too)
TTC: Earliest would be August '06, if I can talk DH into a third!

southerner (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1078f2)
Name: southerner, 31
DH: 32
Married:August 2003
Started Charting: December 2005
TTC: Spring/Summer 2007

spa_girl (LJ); KSLee29 (old school WC)
Real name: Kathy, 30
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Brad, 32
Occupation: consultant - database marketing
Married: 09/08/02
Started charting: March 2007 (probably! will update when I start)
TTC: unsure

stephie61706 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/11ed58)
Real name: Stephanie (24)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Jason (25)
Occupation: Athletic Trainer
Married (date of or date planned): Planned June 17 2006
Started charting (date, if known): Feb. 2006
TTC: 2008 or 2009

Sue
Sue: 34
DH: 37
Occupation: Inside Sales
Married:8/10/02
Started charting: 5/16/06
TTC: Spring 2007

Supergal16 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/164549)
Real name: Lauren 26
DH's name: Andy 29
Occupation: Corporate Financial Analyst
Married : Sept 2005
Started charting: Oct 2006
TTC: Late 2007

tashaw6 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/11d1cf)
Real name: Natasha (27)
DH's name: Neil (26)
Occupation: Accountant
Married: 25th September 2004
Started charting (date, if known): 20 February 2006
TTC: 2007

Taylandra
Real name: Cassie (23)
DH's name: Michael (24)
Occupation: Me-Grad student & program coordinator; DH-laywer
Married: 5/21/05
Started charting: 10/22/06
TTC: End of 2008/2009 maybe

tgr68 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1e632)
Name: Naamah (26)
DH's name: Cordell (27)
Occupation: SAHM
Married : June 1, 2002
Started Charting: January 2003 & July 2005
TTC: 2007

TheMarieke (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/b3755)
Real name: Marieke (23)
FH's name: Nathan (21)
Occupation: Insurance Agent/Broker
Married: 8/26/06
Started charting: May 25, 2005 (First full cycle)
TTC: 2009-2010 (unless God decides otherwise!)

tippy (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/48927) (tippyanddennis on WC)
Real Name: Tiffany (26)
DH: Dennis (25)
Occupation: Engineer
Married: June 26, 2004
Started Charting: March 30, 2004
TTC: 2008-2009

tlew12778 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/7381b)
Real name: Tiffany (29)
FH's name: Carlo (32)
Occupation: job-hunting (me), MD (him)
Married: April 21, 2006
Started charting (date, if known): October 2004
TTC: 2007-2008

wonderpup262
Carrie: 30
DH: 30
Occupation: full time product manager, part time MBA student
Married: Oct. 03
Started charting: Jan. 06
TTC: We should wait til 2008... but can we hold out that long?

yanekie25
Real name: Kalshelia (27)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Malcolm (26)
Occupation: Finance
Married (date of or date planned): October 21, 2006
Started charting (date, if known): Gonna to start this cycle.
TTC: Probably not until 2009

[kemaji]

When we're moving on to TTC by Year


2007
akacharlotte
aligirl
belm
heather1029
indiansummer
KRL626
LeslieandPaul
lil_geek
LIZNKEITH
meagle
MizLarner
motray36
Natrat80
Pookie Princess
sdauer21
southerner
Sue
Supergal16
tashaw6
tgr68

2007 - 2008
aam64
abear
Aletheia
e&d
EmilyBronte
ladybug1196
meggers
tlew12778

2008
21daisygurl
AHammer
kemaji
ktdelsur
Marcilla
wonderpup262

2008 - 2009
stephie61706
Taylandra
tippy

2009
yanekie25

2009 - 2010
TheMarieke

2011
candy corn
catch

Someday/Undecided
Angelpalgt
angelraven
chinadoll
Cindym
HisSpicy
jnettie
JubileeDawning
katiej
kissmary
ktina0803
Leigh0918
portlandbride
PugLover
Saathei
sarahburns
spagirl

No more for me/Don't want children
dana92504
Leilynne
mamacita

Moved on to TTC/SWH

2005
Mystikal (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/RaeK622) ~ May 2005 ~ Baby girl born June 2006!
flygirl (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/flygirl) ~ June 2005
polkadot (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/b9a0d) ~ July 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due July 2007
heather 8^) ~ July 2005 ~ Baby girl born July 2006!
cat_loverpq (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/da20b) ~ August 2005
Leigh0918 ~ August 2005
Sabriel (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/4431c) ~ August 2005 ~ Baby girl born August 2006!
Sevilla (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/1b18e) (rae_anna46 on LJ) ~ Baby boy born March 2006!
pickle ~ August 2005 ~ Baby boy born October 2006!
ABirney (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=mrsabirney) ~ September 2005
ajlanden (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/2fdee) (ShyAnn on WC) ~ October 2005 - Baby boy born August 2006!
Aletheia (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/a0c60) ~ November 2005 ~ Baby boy born August 2006!
quartercentury (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/3313f) ~ December 2005 ~ Baby boy born October 2006!
lawgirl4 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/a6770) ~ December 2005 ~ Baby girl born October 2006!
M&M614 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/df46b) ~ December 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due October 2006
giry76 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/781ab) ~ December 2005 ~ Pregnant! Baby girl due May 2007
berry ~ December 2005
MrsKinnison (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/89c6c) ~ December 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due March 2007
BethIrish ~ December 2005 ~ Pregnant! Baby boy born November 2006!

2006
bijouparvin ~ January 2006 ~ Pregnant! Baby girl born November 2006!
Harmony96 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/d1b58) ~ January 2006 ~ Pregnant! Baby girl born December 2006!
phillytiger (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=lege) ~ January 2006 ~ Pregnant! Due February 2007
Kanga1622 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/28596) ~ February 2006
fsb2005 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/10ac41) ~ April 2006 ~ Pregnant! Due February 2007
honeygirl (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424) (Ovusoft (http://www.tcoyf.com/forum/chart.asp?id=honeygirl)) ~ May 2006
MrsHill (http://www.tcoyf.com/chart.asp?id=mrshill) ~ May 2006 ~ Pregnant! Due February 2007
juliemag (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/9c636) ~ June 2006 ~ Pregnant! Due April 2007
FSUSammy (http://forums.ovusoft.com/chart.asp?id=fsusammy) ~ July 2006
motray36 ~ July 2006
ADSigMel (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/9fd5e) ~ July 2006
RobynScott (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1095fc) ~ July 2006 ~ Pregnant! Due July 2007
SQ2 (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=sq2) ~ August 2006 ~ Pregnant! Due October 2007
clzj (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/53585) ~ August 2006 ~ Pregnant! Due May 2007
Stevesbabygirl (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=stevesbabygirl) ~ August 2006 ~ Pregnant! Due June 2007
granada (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/97800) ~ September 2006 ~ Pregnant! Due August 2007
filmgirl7 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/13fa13) ~ September 2006 ~ Pregnant! Due September 2007
tbell (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/113206) ~ October 2006
mlfallis (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee6c5) ~ November 2006 ~ Pregnant! Due October 2007
Reenie (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=mrund1) ~ December 2006

2007
raven077 (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=raven077) ~ January 2007
Clattercote (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/81249) ~ January 2007

Anti-grads
Graffy (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/9fab4) ~ Baby boy born June 2006!
Wagsgirl ~ Pregnant! Due January 2007
Daniel's Kitty ~ Pregnant! Due February 2007 ~ Broken Rule: BD'd when fertile CM was present
dpangel33 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1177de) ~ Pregnant! Due February 2007 ~ Broken Rule: Early O, BD'd when EWCM was present
mobe63 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/17a0cc) ~ Pregnant! Due October 2007 ~ Broken Rule: Unprotected sex during fertile period

[kemaji]

Charting-to-Avoid Volume 4 is now open!

I have updated the current roster, so if you don't see your stats included, that is because you haven't posted for a whole thread. If you would like for them to be added back, just let me know by posting in red.

One other piece of housekeeping, if anyone knows the status of any of our grads (or anti-grads), I'd love to make any updates/add babies, etc.

[PookiePrincess]

Thanks for the new thread!

Kemaji, I know that dpangel33 is an antigrad, she's due Feb 07.

[blondeinnyc]

Hey Folks-I just posted this at the end of Volume 3, so I'm posting again here since we are getting off to a fresh start. Fitting since this is charting cycle #1 for me!
_______________________

Hey Ladies-

This is my first post on CC and in this thread...I have to say that I am incredibly impressed by the amount of knowledge you guys have about charting to avoid! I have found all of your posts very useful in helping me get off on the right start with this charting thing.

A little background before I ask my questions:

*I went of BCP last October so I have had seven cycles post-BCP
*AF came right away with no problem after going off the pill
*I have always been VERY regular-I can count the times I was late or missed a period on one had since I was 12 years old (29 now.) :)
*For the last few months, AF has started like clockwork on the 24th of each month.
*I think I am a 28-day cycle girl since that's what I was on the pill and my body has pretty much stuck to that schedule.

This month is my first month of charting and I am currently on CD-18. I've never had to translate my cycle before and am obviously still getting to know what is normal for me. Given this, I really can't tell if I have O-ed yet this month. I had a large temp increase on CD-16, only to have it drop .6 the very next day. I thought I ovulated given EWCM, but the significant drop as well as the fact that it wasn't as high again today makes me think I didn't O. Given my very regular cycle, I was expecting to O around CD-14ish, so I'm starting to get a bit concerned.

I should mention that there have been a few things this cycle that may affect my ovulation date. We were traveling internationally at the end of my last cycle/beginning of this cycle during AF. Also, I have significantly increased physical exercise in the last three weeks (since AF ended) which could influence things.

So my questions...given your experienced eyes, does it look like I O-ed yet? Is it too soon to tell? If I have O-ed, what would my coverline be?

This is all kind of confusing! I really appreciate your feedback.

Thanks!

My Chart:

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/14532e

[kemaji]

blondeinnyc -- I don't think you've O'd based on your chart. You can't see any sort of overall temperature shift at this point (all of your recorded temps are in the same general range). Because you have been doing some extensive travel, that may be the reason. It isn't unusual to have a delayed O because of travel, stress or illness... anyway, welcome again! I've added your chart to our roster, but if you want to post the rest of your stats, I'd be happy to add them as well. You can post as much or as little as you'd like, most people post a variety of the following:

Real name: ___ (age)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: ___ (age)
Occupation: ___
Married (date of or date planned): ___
Started charting (date, if known): ___
TTC: _date_ if known

[blondeinnyc]

Thanks for your thoughts Kemaji. It funny that I am so anxious about ovulating-like it's some momentous occasion or something! :)

My stats:

Me: blondeinnyc, 29
DH: 29
Married: Oct 2002
Started Charting: July 06
TTC: May/June 07?

[Clattercote]

blondeinnyc - ITA with Kemaji (see, we agree again :-)) - no O yet. One of things I'm thinking is that the higher temp you noted might be a temp spike. Some women (me) get these 4-5 days before O, and they coincide with more fertile CM (thus not fitting either the sustained temp shift or the CM dry up that would indicate an O). But these spikes can be a secondary indicator of O coming up - just something to keep in mind as you chart more...

[Clattercote]

KemajiLooking at my stats, I'm noticing that I'm now 30 instead of 29, DH is now 31, and TTC probably won't happen till early 2007. I'm also excited because I'm coming up on my 2 year chartiversary!

[kemaji]

Clatter, we tend to do that. ;)

Updated to here.

[SQ2]

Welcome, blondeinnyc! :D ;) I traveled overseas a month ago and it definitely affected my cycle. I agree with the others, I don't think you've O'd yet. Happy Charting and welcome again!

* * *

Well, I've had another bout of EWCM, 4 days this time. Is this it...finally? We shall see what happens in the morning.

Update: I am now 28. :)

[kemaji]

SQ2 -- Got it! Happy belated birthday, btw. :)

[tgr68]

Checking in and subscribing!!

[raven077]

One of things I'm thinking is that the higher temp you noted might be a temp spike. Some women (me) get these 4-5 days before O, and they coincide with more fertile CM (thus not fitting either the sustained temp shift or the CM dry up that would indicate an O). But these spikes can be a secondary indicator of O coming up - just something to keep in mind as you chart more...

Clatter, interesting.. I had forgotten about temp spikes. I thought that today was going to be the start of my temps above the CL, and dry up, but then I had actual EW tonite, whereas the past few days have been nothing but watery. We'll see what my temp does in the morning, but it would appear that this would be my first pre-o temp spike.

Also, welcome, blondeinnyc!

[kissmary]

oooh, new thread!

Threadmistress, you can now add me to the people who have charted to avoid for a year. I can't believe I've been charting for a year.

And welcome to blondeinnyc!

[tgr68]

Could I also be added to the TTA Masters list? I have successfully charted to TTA for over 2 years and successfully charted (TTA & TTC) for over 3 years!

[Clattercote]

Raven - Yeah, I was actually kind of surprised when I discovered my pattern of temp spikes - I was just looking through my charts one day and discovered it (hmmm - it was because someone on this board had asked a question like "Do you have any consistent patterns chart to chart" as a QOTD) -

If there's no pattern of it for you, I'd consider it a one-time fluke at this point (but of course you can still manipulate a spike for your temp pattern) - but it could be your body's developing that pattern, too -

[tlew12778]

blondeinNYC - I agree with clatter and kemaji. No O yet. Also, if you are getting your period on the 24th of each month, that would mean you have 30-31 days cycles and not 28... I also have 30-31 day cycles and I normally O btwn CD17-23. Remember that an avg LP is anywhere btwn 12-16 days, but that you could also have a short LP and still have regular cycles.

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

[meggers]

Just checking in... I'm on CD29 still waiting to O (I think my body is trying to O). This is my first cycle since having DS and I am BF so I wasn't expecting this cycle to be normal (usually O CD14-CD16). My CM is confusing me though. I have a lot of EWCM marked on my chart but most of it hasn't been my usual clear, slippery EWCM. I have been getting a lot of snotty CM, it stretches so I call it EWCM to be safe. Even though we aren't UDD yet, I want to get in the habit of being conservative since we don't want another baby anytime soon.

[Natrat80]

just realized that my chart link didn't work, I'll try again
here it is (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/4562c)

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

[LIZNKEITH]

I'd like to join!!

Real name: Liz (27)
DH: Keith (36)
Occupation: Claims Asst.
Married: July 28, 2001
Children: Caroline (6/15/05)
Started charting: April 2003
TTC: January 2007

*Chart is in siggy


DH and I successfully TTA with charting until we were ready to TTC. I loved it! We both felt so involved and so liberated. No nasty pills or condoms. Charting also came in handy when we were ready to TTC. Unfortunately, it took us a year. The thing is, it did happen and wouldn’t have happened without the knowledge I gained. Since DD has been born, I’ve been a slacker. I’ve been keeping track of my menstrual cycles and noting EWCM. Now that DD is in a regular sleeping pattern (please God- do NOT let me jinx that), I would like to start temping again in preparation for when we hopefully begin to TTC in January.

I see a couple of my fellow June Mommies in here! :)

[kemaji]

Updated to here. Welcome back LIZNKEITH!

[TheMarieke]

Kemaji: You can link to my FF chart in my stats. Here's the link (it's also in my sig): http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/b3755

I have another question about CM: I think this should be classified as sticky, but I'm not sure...

I'm gearing up towards O currently (on CD8, usually start getting fertile CM around CD10 or so), but I just got off AF spotting yesterday.

When I checked my CM today, I had a slightly wet sensation and the CM itself looked more like sticky, but different than my normal sticky. There wasn't a lot, it was slightly more yellowish than normal (I think it might be leftover spotting or something), and had tiny globs. One of the globs stretched a little (about 1/4 inch).

I really want to make sure I'm charting things as accurately as possible as far as my CM is concerned, cause I get a little lazy with that since my cycle tends to be so regular.

[Clattercote]

Welcome back Liznkeith!

Marieke - I'd go ahead and mark it as fertile since it sounds stretchy. I asked a question about this when I first started charting, though, and Sevilla (another long time member who recently had a baby) and she said that she often gets some EWCM just after AF, followed by a dry day or two and then a build up to fertility. She said that after a few cycles, she was comfortable enough with saying that was just the way her body reacted post-AF and that it wasn't fertile in the way that the later CM was. So, if you've got enough of a pattern of charts, it can be your call on how to treat it. I have pretty much the same thing as Sevilla saw, but I treat my first EWCM as the start of my CM flow - maybe some day I'll be comfortable enough to count it as part of the infertile clearing-out-my-body-after-AF thing...

[LIZNKEITH]

Thanks for all the warm welcomes!!

The Marieke,
My intial thought was that I would classify it as sticky since you said it looked gummy. But since it was stretchy, I would consider it fertile to be on the safe side.


Grr....I forgot to put my therm on the nightstand and therefore forgot to temp. It's going to be hard to get back in the habit. :rolleyes:

[motray36]

Good morning everyone! I was wondering why I wasn't getting updates, yay for thread #4!

blondeinnyc and liznkeith - welcome!

kissmary - congrats on 1 year

clattercote - when is your 2 year chartiversary? does it feel like that
long? I'll be hitting that milestone at the end of Sept.

The Marieke - I'll concur and say err towards the safe side and mark it fertile.

As for me, I'm at CD36, temp spike this morning...who knows. I think I need to print out all of my charts and look for patterns. Even though I've been charting for what seems like an eternity, and I've learned SO much, I still feel like I have no way of telling what my body is going to do from month to month. Vent over :p

[motray36]

forgot to subscribe

[tlew12778]

You don't need to post to subscribe. Just go under thread tools.
Anyway, if you get a free VIP sub for a few days, there is a cool function where it lets you print out all your charts together. It's way easier than just printing them out individually, plus it includes a DPO count and your stats. Everytime I get a trial VIP I do that so that I have them to bring with me to my gyn. Also, it totally helps to do a summary on your homepage as it provides a nice, quick reference for when you need one.

[motray36]

tlew - thanks, I'll have to keep my eye out for my next trial. That would be much easier than printing individually!

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

[Clattercote]

Motray - It's coming up after this cycle finishes (I'm on CD 12, so I'd guess in 2.5 more weeks...) It feels like a long time to me in some ways - I guess especially because I've had a lot of cycle irregularity and I've been seeing doctors about it. But in other ways, not so much, because I've gotten used to temping, etc.

Hmmm, I'm musing here on what I've learned in the past 2 years - I've had O as early as CD 9 and as late as CD 28; I've had LPs as short as 4 days and as long as 13 (with the average being somewhere around 10-11 and a diagnosis of low progesterone thrown in there); I've had constant CM (discovered the constant CM was due to a med I was taking) and one cycle with no EWCM at all... what's amazing to me is how much things that seemed insignificant a pre-charting days (like travelling and other forms of stress, and just my regular medications) affect my body more than I thought. And I think it's cool to be able to see changes in my fertility despite all this stuff -

[tlew12778]

Re: EWCM after O - I just had to look this up for someone on a different message board, and apparently some women have an estrogen surge after AF.

Re: 2 years - Funny that you are all thinking about it now bc I was thinking about it too the other day. It definitely doesn't seem that long... Last fall I had to return a BBT that was busted (one of my spares that has a lifetime guarantee) and my mom opened the new one up in the mail when it came. She told me that I should think twice about using that method since that is how my 2 sisters were conceived :rolleyes:. She obviously didn't know what she was doing back then. I never said anything to her at the time, but I sort of feel like saying something to her now. Anyway, on a more technical note, it's interesting how I can see my body "improving" it's own fertility the longer I am off BCP. I went from 11 day LPs to 13, my O's are getting earlier, and my EWCM is like the TCOYF pics now. Neat stuff.

[LIZNKEITH]

EWCM after O
Something that you love to see if you are TTA and hate to see when you are TTC. It means the corpus luteum has broken down and therefore pregnancy has not occurred.

[TheMarieke]

It is odd how some people are so wierd about it, especially in the medical community. I guess it's because they see a lot of consequences of "human error" (like FMIL, who sees Catholic girls coming in for preg tests at the bloddwork place where she works and therefore got on our case about choosing FAM).

As far as EWCM, etc is concerned, I think I may have something similar to Sevilla, but my fertile phase starts after CD3 anyway, since I've had 24 day cycles before, so it doesn't matter all that much anyway, I suppose.

[Reenie]

Hey, kemaji, can you re-add me to the list?

Reenie (http://www.tcoyf.com/forum/chart.asp?id=mrund1)
Real name: Reenie, 25
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Eric, 26
Occupation: teacher
Married (date of or date planned): 11/13/04
Started charting (date, if known): November 2005
TTC: July/August 2007

I'm having some medical stuff done this summer, so that pushed our TTC date back to late fall/early winter, and since I'm a teacher, we'd thought we'd just as well put it off until the end of summer in the hopes of a late spring baby (take maternity leave and then have all summer with the baby ;) ).

I have super-predictable, boring charts, so I may not have many contributions except to ask about short luteal phases (as mine seems to be).

[Clattercote]

Welcome back Reenie!

I'm always amazed at the med community's response to NFP too. I mean, it's in biology books that women ovulate only once per cycle. (I have a friend who uses NFP but who told a mutual acquaintance that she knew it was a crapshoot since women do ovulate more than once - wth? Double Os are documented but only within 24 hours of each other.) And the temp shift has been documented in the literature since the nineteenth century. CM came later, but that's still from the 50s or so(?). I do think a lot of it has to do with the way people blame NFP, when in reality they were using a) nothing b) withdrawal c)rhythm... none of which really fit the description of NFP.

There's also a Canadian biologist going around and insisting that his research shows that women ovulate more than once in a cycle - but when you actually look at the article (written by some other member of his research team, I suspect, one who doesn't have quite the vendetta) - his research is only proving exactly what FAM/NFP teaches anyway. So that doesn't help...

So then when legit surprise NFP pgs show up (the 1-2% listed in TCOYF), people just add that all together -

[ADSigMel]

Just checking in. Still in the middle of a hella long cycle, but it looks like I might be gearing up again to try for an O. Come on, ovaries, you can do it! I haven't updated my FF chart for a while, but I've had about a week of watery CM, and my temp started to climb yesterday morning. Crossing fingers for dry CM tonight and a high temp tomorrow.

[kemaji]

Welcome back, Reenie!

Updated to here.

[meagle]

There's also a Canadian biologist going around and insisting that his research shows that women ovulate more than once in a cycle - but when you actually look at the article (written by some other member of his research team, I suspect, one who doesn't have quite the vendetta) - his research is only proving exactly what FAM/NFP teaches anyway. So that doesn't help...

Ugh. I know exactly what article you are talking about. The "news" that women ovulate more than once a cycle came out the day that I started using FAM. I went right to the article and couldn't believe Professor Dingbat was running around saying what he was when the study completely contradicted what he was saying.

ETA: Congratulations to all the others who are marking chartiversaries :) this month!

[Reenie]

Thanks, Clattercote and kemaji!

Of course, I said I wouldn't have much to say, and I already have a question :rolleyes: : does anyone else ever have menstrual fluid that is like EWCM quality?

[SQ2]

Halle-freakin-lujah! I think I finallyed O'd!

http://www.kenandkeli.com/images/smilies/yaycute.gif

And it's CD82...:rolleyes: That's what traveling will do I guess. But, my cycle was already getting long before we left. This is the first time that I think I might have experienced ovulation pain. Does it usually happen the day you O or the day before? For me it was on Mondayk the day before Ovusoft thinks I O'd. Well, let's hope the temperature stays up. I really don't want to have to go to my doctor. She said 90 days without AF and then she'd give me progesterone. Well, I'll hit the 90 day mark before AF arrives if my LP is a normal length this time. So I'll wait to contact the doctor's office.

Yay! :D

[Clattercote]

Reenie - Yes, I do see that sometimes myself - but it's also good to be careful about that if you've got longer AFs and shorter cycles (I don't know what the case is for you), because sometimes that's actually your EWCM showing impending O even while you're finishing AF.

SQ2 - It does look promising - if it were me, I'd probably want to see a higher temp for at least one more day, but yeah - I'm very glad for you!!!

[ADSigMel]

FF is calling an O for me. I'm pretty sure it's lying, though. I don't O. My reproductive system doesn't like me that much.

[kemaji]

ADSigMel -- I would tend to agree, especially considering your low temp today. You're still in the same general range that the rest of your cycle has been, I'd like to see sustained temps of 97.5 or higher for you.... FF didn't even follow the rule of 3 temps higher than the 6 previous. Now, if tomorrow's temp goes up and stays up, then it could be an O.

[TheMarieke]

I *almost* wonder if I'm going to O early this cycle. It would be wierd if that happened considering I've had a SUPER stressful week (found out I will most likely have to get my wisdom teeth taken out...which I can't afford. Stressed out over it immensely. Then last night a friend offered to pay for whatever I couldn't pay, Praise the Lord!).

I'm going out of town this weekend, so hopefully I can remember to take my temp every morning, since I need to track everything considering how close I am to Oing.

[TheMarieke]

ADSigMel: I agree with Kemaji. I'm so sorry you have to deal with such a frustrating reproductive system! That would drive me nutso. *praying you O soon!*

[Clattercote]

ADSigMel - Yeah, I don't see much of a shift there, either... ff is more than a tad screwed up -

[ADSigMel]

ADSigMel -- I would tend to agree, especially considering your low temp today. You're still in the same general range that the rest of your cycle has been, I'd like to see sustained temps of 97.5 or higher for you....

I concur. I mean, *technically* it's an overall thermal shift by NFP rules (when you shave the temp at CD 37), and it *technically* coincides for the most part with a CM dry-up. But with such a weak thermal shift, I would want to see four days of drying-up anyway, so it will be at least Sunday evening before I think I could safely consider myself in Phase III. Which is incredibly unfortunate, since I'm going home today and leaving on Sunday (I'm working 2.5 hours away from home this summer, so I only get to see my husband every other weekend or so)...apparently I STILL won't be getting any lovin'. :( It's been almost two weeks, and I'm becoming increasingly unpleasant to work with! Maybe my temp will be super-low tomorrow morning, in which case I can assume that I have not O'd...actually I already sort of assume that I didn't O because of the lower temp this morning, but just to be on the safe side. *No Spring Break babies!*

[tlew12778]

Reenie - Yeah I get EWCM like AF. It's gross, particularly since I have to pad it since I get YIs from tampons.

SQ2 - I agree with the others. I would not bother calling the dr if you confirm O. I mean, if you are definitely in your LP, there is no need for progesterone.

Mel - I think that FF is calling O bc of the discarded temps. When will you be able to see a dr about the lack o-ing?

[Reenie]

Okay, thanks Clattercote and tlew12778. I hear you about the pads. *yuck*

[Sue]

Just checking in... looks like AF will be coming in a few days. I'm feeling crampy and my temp dropped today. Cycle #2, almost over :)

[LeslieandPaul]

I'm going camping next week, with no bathroom or garbage facilities. I'll be on day 25 when we leave, and I think I o'd on day 14. I'm crossing my fingers that AF doesn't show/I don't have spotting.
On the upside, my body has finally returned to normal after four months being affected by travelling.

[SQ2]

Is it normal to have EWCM after O? (I know some people have it right before AF, but I'm talking about pretty soon after O.) I had a dry up and a clear temp shift but I just checked my CM and it was really clumpy and white (kinda milky/lotion-y) but definitely had a stretch to it. If so, what's the point of having fertile CM after you've already O'ed?

[tlew12778]

Is it normal to have EWCM after O? There's no point really, but it's due to an estrogen surge. There's a blurb on it in the appendix of TCOYF.

[SQ2]

Thanks! There are some parts of TCOYF that I haven't read yet and that's one of them.

[tgr68]

My temp dropped considerable this morning, so I'm pretty sure that AF is on her way today.

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. I'm back from my cruise. Had a great time. Attempted to chart but my temps were very strange so I'll more than likely disgard all of those temps.

FYI, we'll be moving to SWH!

Sam

[Reenie]

Congrats, FSUSammy! Have fun! :D

[kemaji]

Congrats Sam!

Updated to here.

[tgr68]

Congrats Sammy!!! Good luck!

Still no AF here. The last couple of cycles though my temp has drop the day before I start.

[Clattercote]

FSUSammy - Congratulations!

[Sue]

Congrats FSUSammy!!!

[SQ2]

Good luck, FSUSammy! How exciting! :D

* * *

CD85 and 6DPO for me. I'm still so darn proud of my body for ovulating. :) I'm excited to move on to the next cycle. Hoping it will be shorter than the last! I've been a bit frustrated with DH lately. He refuses to UDD and even admitted that he avoided me last week until he was sure I ovulated. :rolleyes: He says he knows it works but is just trying to lower the chance of anything happening. Hopefully in the future he'll be more open to the idea. I feel like I have the hang of charting now and as long as you follow the rules you should be ok. I don't know if the fact that my cycles have all been so different (first two were regular length and the last two were super long) makes it more risky to UDD.

[Clattercote]

SQ2 - Yay for O! I don't think cycle length makes it more risky to UDD, as long as you keep following the rules for the method - if you keep having a pattern of long cycles, you might benefit from a CM only method like Billings or Creighton to give you more possible UDD days - but since DH is against them anyway, I guess that's a moot point - Here's hoping the next cycle is nice and shorter...:)

[LIZNKEITH]

How exciting!! Good luck, Sam!

SQ2
Congrats on the O! Dh was the same way when we first started charting, but came around in time. As time goes on, he'll learn to trust the system. ;)

[Clattercote]

Adding, about UDD - FWIW, I was terrified of UDD for a few months - I was looking up all the scientific literature I could get my hands on and asking people on this board as well as other boards for reassurance. It was a bit like jumping of a cliff, for me. Can't imagine doing anything else now because we both like NFP a lot better than the other options out there but it is scary to learn to trust your body and your own interpretations.

[aligirl]

aligirl
FF chart: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/ali
Real name: Ali (26)
DH name: Jay (28)
Occupation: Estimator
Married: 5/31/03
Started charting: February 2005
TTC: 2008 (for #2)
Children: Alexander, 1/22/06



Joining :) I've had 3 AF's since having Alex in January. I was on the mini-pill for one and ortho-low for 2 AF's. I'm going to start charting to avoid at the end of this cycle for a variety of reasons....

[kemaji]

aligirl -- Welcome!

Updated to here.

[CindyM]

Welcome to all the newbies and congrats FSUSammy! I am now on cycle 4 - didn't O on cycle 3 so one normal and two not normal but I will chalk cycle 3 to stress of getting a new job and having to quit my old one and also residue of the pill.

Who knows if cycle 4 will be better - I will start my new job on the 10th so I guess I will just wait and see!

[tgr68]

AF started this morning with a vengance!! :( I feel awful. I have not had cramps this bad since before I was pg. My back and both legs down to my calves ache, and I feel like I'm going to throw up. Ugh!! Must have DH pick me up some of those heat patches and extra strength Midol on his way home from work!!

[TheMarieke]

Does anyone know if my CM will change after I'm married (due to being a virgin and whatnot)?

I have been trying to pay more attention to CM and I found that FF's technique for checking internally (pressing lightly on the cervix with two fingers and then "pinching" the fingers together) is a way to find EWCM that may be hiding.

I thought I'd O really early this cycle at one point, but I think a trip to visit DF's parents may have thrown me off, or the stress of the week or something.

Anyway, I felt like today my CM was drying up, it appeared to be just sticky with one finger internally, but I ended up finding EWCM FF's way.

So, yeah, it's late and I'm not quite sure what the point of this post is, but there ya go.

Signed,
CM-crazed-bride-who-is-too-tired

[tlew12778]

Your CM shouldn't change. The only thing you will need to learn is how to distinguish CM from residual sperm and arousal fluid.

[kemaji]

What tlew said. CM patterns can change when hormone balances in the body are affected, that is one of the reasons why so many women have different AF/CM patterns after childbirth.

[Clattercote]

Marieke - I did notice my cycle changed a bit after we were married - but the CM won't change.

[SQ2]

How exciting!! Good luck, Sam!

SQ2
Congrats on the O! Dh was the same way when we first started charting, but came around in time. As time goes on, he'll learn to trust the system. ;) Maybe sometime in the future, yeah. But, we're TTC in September so I don't think it's gonna happen before that, unfortunately. :(

FWIW, I was terrified of UDD for a few months - I was looking up all the scientific literature I could get my hands on and asking people on this board as well as other boards for reassurance. It was a bit like jumping of a cliff, for me. Glad to know we're not the only ones!

[ADSigMel]

Congratulations and good luck, Sam!
Congrats to SQ2 for her O!
Welcome, Aligirl!

FF still claims I O'd. It is very obviously wrong. I think it might be broken. Is there any interpretation method that would call my temp pattern a thermal shift?

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. Just stopping by to say thanks for the well wishes. We'll see how this goes.

I did want to update you all on something though. Today I went in for my annual gyn appointment. I told the doc about my 40-50 day long cycles. I didn't mention that I was temping or anything because I wasn't sure how he'd take it. Regardless he had me do a blood test to check my pituitary and thyroid AND he gave me a prescription for Clomid. Not sure if I'll take the Clomid at the beginning of next cycle yet or not. I still haven't O'd yet this cycle so there is still a chance that if things get timed right we could get PG without needing any medication to help. I'll definitely come by here to update you guys when there is anything to update about.

Take care ladies!

Sam

[TheMarieke]

I think I'll re-read the part in TCOYF about arousal fluid and residual sperm, etc.

Anyone have personal tips about that stuff? I want to be as prepared as possible!!

[tgr68]

Feeling much better today!!! :D Still just a touch nauseous though.

Marieke~I usually disregard any CM readings the day of UDD (if it occured that morning) or the day after UDD (if it occured the night before). Otherwise it appears that I have tons of creamy CM (seminal residue) or tons of EWCM (arousal fluid). HTH!

[tlew12778]

Sam - Wow. That's pro-active! My gyn actually made the same offer when I was dx'ed with PCOS but at least we knew what the cause was... Anyway, best of luck with the SWH/TTC! I guess we'll see you back here in a couple years :p.

Marieke - I don't think TCOYF really talks about it much. I know that there is a way of distinguishing the two in a cup of water (one is water soluble and one is not) but I can't remember the details. Maybe someone else remembers though. I honestly just check CM before arousal fluid or sperm residual is even an issue... that just seems to be the easiest route IMO.

[TheMarieke]

About arousal fluid/residual semen, How long does arousal fluid typically hang around? I generally get more easily aroused around O time anyway, and I seem to have a pretty high sex drive (let's just say it's been a challenge at times to stay the course in regards to waiting for marriage).

Last time I saw my gyn, it was around CD 8-10, which is about when my body starts gearing up for O. He told me that he doubted we'd need lube when I asked (although he did give his recommendations anyway).

I suppose around O time, I'll be safe rather than sorry (it'd only be arousal fluid I'd have to worry about, of course), but in Phase III, I guess I'll just need to be more aware of when I check CM and try to do it at times when that wouldn't be an issue.

Oh, and tlew, I did see something about this in TCOYF, cause I remember reading it. I don't think it was much, like you said, but enough to help me out. I just gotta remember to re-read it!!

[tlew12778]

Don't confuse arousal fluid with EWCM. As you approach O you will have more EWCM, which I guess would also function as a sort of lube, but it's not the same as the lube produced when you're DTD. I don't think it stays around for long... not in my experience anyway.

Yeah I know TCOYF does mention it but it doesn't go into detail about distinguishing it. I think it says something about it in the part about the last dry day rule, which is why you can only DTD every 2 days.

[j*east]

Hi lovely CTA people,
I'm usually TTC, but this month DH was away during my fertile time. I'm about to go to Italy (hi tlew!) and I typically take dramamine on the plane so I don't get airsick. I'd also like to have a few drinks over there. But I am a little bit nervous/paranoid about being PG. Can someone take a quick look (in my sig) and say I'm not PG, based on BD times? I'm only about 3DPO, so too early to test. Thanks. I thought this question was better here than in a new thread.

Marieke, I believe fertile CM forms a ball shape in the water, while non-fertile just dissipates. This is what I remember from TCOYF. Try it sometime and see before counting on it, though.

Also--I read the first page and found some new info and charting resources! This is a great thread!

[raven077]

Kegels! Kegels work great for getting rid of the majority of seminal fluid. If you do it right away, you'll see a lot come out and I've generally noticed that I don't have a ton of residual the next day.

[ADSigMel]

J*east, in The Art of NFP, there is a chart where someone got pregnant with a chart like yours. I think the authors referred to it as a "miracle." :) I wouldn't worry too much about being pg. BTW, you've got a fabulous LP (I noticed from your last cycle).

[kissmary]

j*east, I agree, there's definitely no way you are pregnant unless it's a "miracle" like Mel said. Drink as much as you want.

[TheMarieke]

tlew, yeah, maybe it doesn't go into as much detail. I suppose I could try the water thing and see how well that works.

I could compare how it is before and after a good makeout session, LOL! That way I can at least get familiar with one thing before we get married.

and Raven, I have heard that kegels are good for getting rid of residual. I'll definitely remember to do that. I'm gonna have a whole post-sex routine for everything, haha! Pee to prevent UTIs, kegels to get rid of residual when we UDD...

I have noted that in general, there seems to be a different consistency between EWCM and arousal fluid. I just need to start paying more attention to it and noting the actual differences.

[j*east]

ADSigMel, thanks for checking! And thanks for the LP compliment. :p Uh...I should know this but...what makes it so nice? The high temps? I'm still kinda new to charting.

kissmary, thanks for looking at my chart! I guess the "miracle" fetus is unlikely, but I wanted a 2nd opinion. I really appreciate it.

[kemaji]

Uh...I should know this but...what makes it so nice? The high temps? I'm still kinda new to charting.

j*east -- The length of it, especially when you are TTC. For those of us with short LPs, we may end up having a more difficult time sustaining a PG in the initial stage. A short LP could be a sign of low progesterone, so consider yourself lucky!

[j*east]

kemaji, thanks! I didn't know that. So far it just raises my hopes for a BFP (and then dashes them when AF comes), but I'm beginning to realize that I can expect a 15-16 day LP. I didn't know it was actually a good thing. Thank you!

I might hang out in this thread some more. I really wish I had CTA before TTC, but with previous endometriosis I was advised to just get PG as fast as I can after stopping BCP.

I read the whole first page and picked up some new info. You guys know a lot! And you're very kind to answer all of my questions. Thanks! :)

[meagle]

Uh...I should know this but...what makes it so nice? The high temps? I'm still kinda new to charting.

Long LPs for CTAers also means more UDD (unprotected sex) - those with shorter LP miss out on a couple of "safe" days.

[tlew12778]

j*east - Hi! I agree with the others. I highly doubt you could be pregnant with that BD schedule. Also, I don't know when you're leaving, but anything you take within the next 2 weeks shouldn't even get to the fetus as it doesn't share your blood supply yet. Have an awesome trip!

ETA: I am not sure I agree with your O date last cycle, but it would depend on what all the open circles were.... your chart does not become clearly biphasic until a couple days later (which would still give you a long LP though), and I never trust CP readings (esp. if you are new to it). CP positions changes throughout the day so it is difficult to get consistent readings. Also, it is difficult to know if it is open or not unless you have already had a baby. Your CM matches up, but being fresh off the BCP... it can sort of mess with your first few charts.

Marieke - Hehe. Yeah I think a lot of us have our own post-coital routines :p. Anyway, you do bring up a good point. EWCM is thicker than arousal fluid in general. A good comparison might be lube... you wouldn't mix up lube with EWCM.

[Sue]

Cycle 3 has officially started for me, temp drop and the arrival of AF. Thankfully, it wasn't preceded by the tremendous headache like last cycle. LP wasn't as long as my first cycle off BCP - 15 compared to 17, and I O'd earlier this cycle too. We'll see how this one goes!

[j*east]

ETA: I am not sure I agree with your O date last cycle, but it would depend on what all the open circles were.... your chart does not become clearly biphasic until a couple days later (which would still give you a long LP though), and I never trust CP readings (esp. if you are new to it).

tlew, thanks for looking at my chart and sharing your thoughts. I'll be in Italy from tomorrow (leaving today) through July 31. I know...if I change FF to FAM, it changes my O day to CD17 for June, but I thought that CD14 made sense b/c of CM, not so much CP, which admittedly is still tough for me. (I haven't had a baby and it always feels a little open to me.) I have more to learn, obviously. Should I focus more on temp or CM when determining O? The open circles were variable waking times, some earlier, some later. I teach school and that was the end of the year, when my schedule was all over the place.

On the advice of others I do have FF on FAM now, and this month the FAM and advanced settings agree on my O day.

[tlew12778]

A lot of us only temp and check CM. If you want to check CP, you should be consistent about it so that you can start to feel the difference in height and texture. Regardless, it's something that takes time to figure out as I am sure the others who do it will tell you. I, personally, find temping and CM more reliable, but each person is different. That said, FF will take CP into consideration, so if you put HSO, and have fertile quality CM, it's likely to give you an O...

That said, you should never rely on the software to determine your O. More often than not, it is wrong. So it doesn't really make that much of a difference how you have it set.

[j*east]

Thanks, tlew. I need to chart some more to figure out what to think when my temp says one thing and CM another. :)

[mmeblue]

Hi CTAers! I've been absent from this thread for a while, but right now I'm working on a project and would love to get some feedback from you guys.

I'm volunteering at a local crisis pregnancy center, and a couple of weeks ago the subject of charting came up, and it seems that most people around here know little to nothing about it. The director of the center has ordered a copy of TCOYF, but since we can't just hand out copies of it to clients, I thought it would be helpful to come up with a brochure outlining the basics of using FAM for contraception.

So, I've come up with one, and I would love it if I could get some of you ladies to look over it and tell me what you would add, remove, or edit. It's hard to figure out what to include in such limited space! If you'd be willing to look over this brochure and give me your feedback, please send me a PM with your email address so I can send it to you. You'll need Microsoft Publisher to open it.

Thanks in advance! :)

[tlew12778]

I'll look at it if you want. I think that Sevilla also made something similar for her students last year... you may want to PM her and ask her about it. I remember a bunch of people asked her for copies in the old WC thread. Also, the back of TCOYF should outline the basics I think. There's a pull-out section for drs.

[kemaji]

I'll PM you also. I actually have Sevilla's documents that she put together. She made a bunch of different ones that aren't limited just to CTA.

[raven077]

Hey ladies,
Anyone feel like glancing at my charts? I had a temperature spike on CD 16, and I feel like I O'd that day, according to CF, drying up, etc. On my paper chart, I drew the CL at 98.8 due to the drop on CD 17 and started my temp count on CD 18. (Confused yet? I am :p )

However, Ovusoft puts my O at CD 17 (after I'm all dry), which puts me at 8 DPO.

FF puts my O at CD 15 (when I still have EW the next day) and that puts me at 10 DPO.

Any thoughts? Since I have shorter LP's, I'd like to have a better grasp on what this cycle is doing since starting the PNV that have B6 in them. Also, my temp pattern has been extremely odd this LP.. this weird, steady, stair-stepping pattern. But I guess every body is different.

[LIZNKEITH]

Raven
I would agree with FF based on your temp shift. Perhaps you O’d later and the day and still had some residual EWCM the following day.

[ADSigMel]

Raven, I'm with LIZNKEITH on this one. That's too much of a temp shift on CD16 to ignore. And I don't think my O has ever coincided perfectly with a Peak Day. It's always offset by a day (sometimes two) in either direction.

[tgr68]

My temp jumped to my normal high temp today (CD 4), but I think I may discard it because I have developed and ear infection. :( We'll see how the next few days go.

[TheMarieke]

CRAP! :mad: It doesn't look like my O got delayed at all. I either O'd on CD 13 or 14 (I think it was CD14 - but I can't remember if I checked my CM that day..I think I did and it was EWCM, but I'm not sure since I forgot to put it in FF).

Even with that one random high-ish temp on CD10 (might have spiked due to very high stress...why couldn't it delay O more!!!), it's still on my usual coverline, so there ya go. I guess I'll see tomorrow which day I O'd.

*Praying for a short LP this cycle and next at least!*

I shouldn't really complain, it won't really be the end of the world if I get AF on my wedding day, just a bit disappointing and a royal pain. At least I've got the DivaCup now, so that should help!

[Clattercote]

mmeblue - I'm happy to look over what you've got as well -

Marieke - Sprinkling short LP dust I don't usually do that, because I've got short LPs, but in this one case ... :D

Re: temp shift before EWCM goes away - The Art of NFP notes cycles where temp shifts begin before EWCM (listed under a section called false rises). They suggest it happens because ovaries secrete small amounts of progesterone, sometimes enough to lead to a temp rise shortly before O. Which is just to say, because we're TTA here, I'd always go conservative, and wait till both CM has dried up and there's a true temp shift. Temperature shifts indicate O happening within +/- 1 day; for most women it shows that O has already happened, but not exclusively so.

Raven - Because your temp does a fall back to the CL, I'm actually a bit more comfortable with Ovusoft's interpretation than FF's because the temp shift remains so nice and sustained after CD 10. We can't pinpoint the exact moment of O except with ultrasound, so it's an approximation no matter how you slice it. Both FF and Ovusoft are doing a fairly good job, in your case, of interpreting your signs (a rare occurence!). You O'd somewhere around CD 8-10...

[herewego]

Hi-

I haven't posted before, but have lurked this thread for a while now since I am/was also CTA. Apparently it didn't work this month. :) I got a BFP on two tests today...not the best timing, but what can you do?

I am baffled though because DH and I didn't really have unprotected sex in the "window" of my fertile phase around ovulation.

Here is my chart:

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/14532e

BD-ing on CD10-11 was unprotected, but that was far enough away from ovulation and I thought sperm could only live up to five days in prime CM conditions, which I did not have.

BD on CD15 was without a condom but DH didn't ejaculate (probably because he was scared of me getting pg....) Could pre-ejaculation be the culprit?

BD on CD19 was with a condom

BD during LP was unprotected, but that was way passed ovulation, so it couldn't have been then.

I'm just a bit confused and know that DH will immediately ask "HOW did this happen?" as soon as I tell him.

Any thoughts are MUCH appreciated!


ETA: Sorry, I didn't realize that BD isn't on my chart...hope you don't mind flipping back and forth from my chart to this post to see BD info....

[Clattercote]

herewego - Welcome! And I'm sorry CTA didn't work out for y'all this month - but I hope you have an HTH 9 mos!

My guesses for when conception occurred: either the CD10-11, or CD 15. Sperm can live in fertile CM up to five days, which is why any method of STM has a rule about no UDDing on a day when you see CM of any kind (barring the basic infertile pattern kind of CM). You saw sticky on CD 10, so CD 9 should have been the last day of UDD by the Last Dry Day rule. The Last Dry Day rule is a pretty loose rule, though (it would make sense that more unintended pgs happen using the last dry day rule, because it's very possible to miss even the small bit of CM in which sperm can live) - if you wanted to be more conservative about TTA, you would want to end UDD by CD 6 (the Clinical Experience rule, assuming your cycles last longer than 26 days)... other more conservative rules are the 21 day rule and the Doering Rule, both of which would likely have ended UDD for this cycle earlier than CD 9.

But CD 15 could also be the day because unprotected withdrawal is VERY risky, especially on an EWCM day like I'm seeing on your chart. That's a pretty good bet for conception, as well - there's pretty much always pre-ejaculate emitted, which has sperm, even when he doesn't ejaculate, and your EWCM would work like capillary action, drawing the sperm up very quickly and efficiently toward an egg.

So those days are my vote - it's hard to say which one is more likely - probably CD 15 because of the presence of EWCM.

Hope this helps! And best wishes for your pg!

[raven077]

Thanks ladies! I knew I could expect some great insights. :) Appreciate it.

[tgr68]

I agree with Clattercote! Most likely BDing on CD 15 was the culprit - although it could have been CD 10-11. Pre-ejaculation can carry sperm in it, which is why withdrawl isn't always the best method. (DH use withdrawl too during my fertile time, too!) Sorry CTA didn't work out for you guys this month, but I wish you a H&H 9 months!! :cool:

[tlew12778]

herewego - I agree with clatter. Withdrawal is most definitely not conservative enough if TTA. It's ok for SWH IMO.

[ADSigMel]

herewego, I think CD15 probably did it, too. Withdrawal is not a particularly safe method of birth control. But H&H 9 months!

[TheMarieke]

Herewego, I agree with the other gals that it was probably the withdrawal, or else the CD10-11 BDing (my bet's on the w/d). HTH 9 months!!


Since this has come up, I am feeling I need some reassurance about how I'm interpreting my cycles and fertile window, etc, in preparation for *actually* TTAing starting next month (woohoo!!).

At this point, to be conservative, my fertile window starts on CD3 (oh joy), so figuring out last dry day, etc is a moot point. I also have a sticky BIP, so there that.

So the main thing I need to be careful about and keep an eye on is the END of my fertile phase. This cycle, I've noticed that I have creamy-ish/sticky CM after O. According to my chart, I would be able to UDD starting today, correct?

On my previous cycle, I would have been clear to UDD on CD 18, due to the missing temp, correct?

Thankfully I have a pretty clear O when I track everything properly. I just want to make sure I do this right since it's going to really matter soon!


PS: Apparently I'm worrying more than I realized about AF arriving on my wedding day. I had a dream last night that I started right before the ceremony and it was a disaster! Wedding planning is insanity I tell ya!

[herewego]

I just wanted to thank everyone who posted today and yesterday with feedback about my chart. Things are starting to sink in, but I'm still completely shocked that I am pg.

Looks like we will fall in to that 15% statistic of people who get preggo from pre-ejaculation. :) DH is probably going to freak out.

Thanks again....

[kemaji]

herewgo, I agree with the PPs about when it probably happened. H&H 9 mos!

TheMarieke, There are a number of rules that you could use at the beginning of your cycle for pre-O UDD. Depending on your cycle length, the most conservative would either be UDD is safe the first 5 days or the Doering Rule, which is the earliest day of thermal shift -7 days. You need at least 6 complete cycles to do this effectively and 12 is recommended. If you want to read up on all of your options, check out post #6 of this thread.

For both of your post-O questions, the answer is yes. It is safe to UDD today, per your current cycle and CD18 would have been your third high temp of your last cycle.

You'll be fine, I'm sure. Actually putting it to the test for the first time can be a little nervewracking, but it seems like you have things under control.

[Clattercote]

Marieke - You're doing well with interpretation, I think -
With the last chart, yes, I'd say CD 18 due to missing temp.
With the present chart, I'd say the evening of CD 17, today (Peak + 4, in conjunction with the temp shift) The important thing about the present chart is that the CM is going in the direction of drying up; it's not staying wet and fertile. So I generally say that days of creamy encountered during a temp shift don't affect the start of my Phase III. If I am in the middle of a temp shift, start to dry up, and then have one day of EWCM, I'll wait an extra day, though. One way to go more conservative than less is to pay attention to the Art of NFP's temp shift rules - so that if you have a stronger shift, you can rely fewer days on CM dry up, and if you have a less strong shift, you rely more on CM dry up.

Sorry about all the dreams and the worries about AF - maybe the thing to think is the same mantra I kept telling myself during wedding planning ,"We will still be married no matter what happens."

Speaking of which, I'm a bit confused - people keep bringing up the Diva Cup as something to use for BD during AF, but frankly, I can't imagine (as a Cup user myself) doing anything with the cup in... can anyone enlighten me without getting overly graphic?

[ADSigMel]

Marieke, I agree with your chart interpretations, too. But I think you would have been ok to UDD yesterday in the evening, if you followed NFP Rule R (3 days of strong thermal shift + 3 days of drying up).

I think that to determine the end of Phase I, you would have to start checking CM during AF (if you even feel comfortable with UDD during AF, which I personally don't because I'm cranky during that time and don't like DH to even touch me :p). As long as you were dry, you could probably use the 20-day rule (shortest previous cycle - 20) since you've been charting for more than 12 cycles. Or the Doering rule, like Kemaji mentioned. It just depends on how fast and loose you're willing to play with your potential pre-O fertility.

[TheMarieke]

Clattercote, I don't know how anyone could do that either!! I think people may confuse it with the SoftCups, which you CAN use (I think they are the only ones). I tried some samples, but they didn't work very well for me. I've heard they don't work well if you have a tilted uterus or something *shrug*. Either way, I like the DivaCup much better and it isn't a waste of plastic or money like the softcups would be (they aren't reusable). I may get one box of them only for BD use, to help keep things clean, but other than that, I wouldn't use them regularly.

I don't actually have the Art of NFP, I use TCOYF as my reference book. Should I get a copy of Art of NFP? I'd like to be able to BD after CD3, but TCOYF says that to be conservative, if you've had a cycle thats as short as 24 days in the last year, you shouldn't BD after CD3 and I've had a couple cycles that were that short (last one was April of this year).

The earliest FF says I've ovulated was CD9, but now that I look at that chart, it was my first full chart (May of last year) and my fertile CM was AFTER FF's O date. Plus, I was temping orally, which made my chart really rocky. I suspect that I actually O'd CD11 at the earliest that cycle, based on the rest of my charts. The earliest I've O'd, excluding that chart is CD12, so that would make the last UDD day CD5 using the Doering rule.

So, do you think it'd be ok for me to change the beginning of Phase II to CD5? That would be really nice!!

[TheMarieke]

How in the world would I check CM during AF? I have a pretty steady flow, and I have absolutely no idea how I'd be able to tell what kind of CM I have. I would guess (thinking of how AF is at the end, or when I'm spotting), that it's sticky...maybe sometimes creamy.

I actually get kinda "in the mood" when I have AF, unless I'm physically uncomfortable.

I definitely want to err on the side of caution, since good fertility runs in the family and we would have a hard time supporting a child until at least a year from now.

[akacharlotte]

I need chart interpretation. FF changed my O date and made it a couple of days later. I'm CD 30. Any opinions.

[Reenie]

akacharlotte As it reads currently, FF says O occurred CD22; I agree with that.

[TheMarieke]

That looks like a pretty clear chart to me! I'd agree with FF on that one.

[akacharlotte]

Last month even though I had a few days of EWCM after O, FF did not change my O date, I suppose going by the thermal shift. This month my temps had a slower rise so I thought I O'd a couple of days earlier until FF moved my O date back. I wonder if I'm going to have a short or long LP this cycle?

Thanks!

[Clattercote]

Marieke - TAONFP would give some additional rules as well as possible leeway points - it does take a bit to figure out (because the way they figure out temps is different from TCOYF), but I've found it to be really helpful to have the extra possibilities that it gives with its own brand of interpretation.

BTDT that with short cycles and no BDing past CD 3 (I had a cycle last year of 19 days). Every other one of my cycles has been 27 days or more, though, and so I'm willing to be a bit more loose in that regard.

Given the circumstances as you've stated it, I'd totally be comfortable going to CD 5 for UDD, - that first cycle sounds like that bit of bad data that you would throw out in a science experiment, kwim?

ETA: You can't check CM during the heavy days of AF - but it should be possible to see CM during days when you're spotting.... CM-only methods prohibit AF as a UDD time for this reason, but STM allows UDD during AF up to whatever clinical experience day is your cut off point (which depends on the length of the shortest cycle you've had) -

[TheMarieke]

What does BTDT mean? I can't remember for the life of me...

[TheMarieke]

Considering I have 16 cycles under my belt, and it seems like it's consistent that I O no earlier than CD12, I think it will definitely be safe to have UDD up to CD5.

As far as AF CM checking, that makes more sense! I often have sticky-creamy CM (usually sticky) quality spotting fluid at the end of AF - probably since I have a sticky BIP as it is. I've sometimes noted the last day of AF spotting as sticky/spotting. I don't usually start getting fertile-quality CM till a couple days after AF and I typically get spotting (not light AF) around CD6.

I think I may look into getting TAONFP since I've pretty much got TCOYF down now and am pretty experienced with charting.

I also want to invest in Ovusoft at some point, but I may have to wait for both due to the cost...

[Clattercote]

BTDT = been there, done that

In terms of the end of Phase I, I think there does come a point where it's a judgement call and it comes down to what you're personally comfortable with - TAONFP lists the surprise pg rates for no UDDing past CD3, CD4, CD5, CD6, Doering, Last Dry Day, etc. - and it's very very low for the first couple, but gets progressively higher by Last Dry Day (which is still low, btw) - and given all the various rules for determining start of Phase II, it becomes a matter of what you're comfortable with -

Generally, I think CD 5 (and for most people, CD 6) is a good cutoff point for most cycles for Phase I, provided no CM has been seen before then -

[tlew12778]

I think someone wrote that they clipped off the grip thing on the divacup. There was talk about it in the sex forum. Not sure though...

[TheMarieke]

Yeah, someone did, but I still don't see how sex would be possible. It doesn't sit very far up there.

[Sue]

Well, I've noticed that AF is way short - 2 days and a couple of spotting days and that's it! Anybody else that short??

[Clattercote]

Divacup - And I'd worry myself about being able to get the thing out again afterward -

Sue - That is pretty short - I don't remember your circumstances, so here are some questions: are they like that every cycle? How long has it been that way? Are you just coming off the pill or other hormonal thing? If you're coming off of hormonal BC including the hormonal IUD, I'd give it at least 3 cycles (a year if you're coming off Depo). If you've been pretty much hormone free for a year or so, though, and it's been like this for a while, then I might mention it to a gyn and see what s/he says...

[Sue]

Sue - That is pretty short - I don't remember your circumstances, so here are some questions: are they like that every cycle? How long has it been that way? Are you just coming off the pill or other hormonal thing? If you're coming off of hormonal BC including the hormonal IUD, I'd give it at least 3 cycles (a year if you're coming off Depo). If you've been pretty much hormone free for a year or so, though, and it's been like this for a while, then I might mention it to a gyn and see what s/he says...

This is my third cycle off the BCP. I do remember before I was on the pill and when I took breaks through the years, that AF would last 4-5 days, then a day with nothing, then it would come back for a day or 2. I guess my body still has to regulate itself. I have an appointment next month, so I'll see what she says.

[ADSigMel]

Sue, I've been having short AF (1-3 days) for the past couple of cycles myself. It's really weird for me, since mine usually last for at least 6 days. Not sure what's up with that -- I've been off the Pill for over two years!

[Sevilla]

Hi Ladies! It's been about a year but i'm back now :) (though still no cycles as i'm breastfeeding so i don't expect to be able to really chart for another year).

Divacup: You can't have sex with a Divacup in since it is lower in your vagina. But you *can* have sex with Instead softcups (they are disposable, you can buy them at the store with the tampons and pads), b/c they sit on your cervix instead.

Well, I've noticed that AF is way short - 2 days and a couple of spotting days and that's it! Anybody else that short??
I have always had a short AF - 1-1.5 days of real flow (that still requires just junior tampons) and then 3-4 days of light spotting. I used to be concerned that it meant my uterine lining wasn't building up enough to support a pregnancy, but that was not the case as we got pregnant our first cycle TTC. i think it's just how my uterus is - it doesn't shed a ton. Even after having DS i never really bled a lot like many women experience post-partum (this was VERY nice).

[Clattercote]

Welcome back, Sevilla! It's great to have so many people coming back to this thread who are pp/bfing/etc. I'm hoping to learn from y'all and your experiences charting now -

[Sevilla]

Thanks CC! I was just realizing today that this thread group has been around for almost 4 years now! (between the WC and here)

[ADSigMel]

It's good to see you back, Sevilla!

[ADSigMel]

FF is calling O again. Is it lying to me? It's giving me dotted crosshairs at CD 49, which I guess could maybe make sense if you call that low temp on CD51 a fluke. I haven't been very good about checking CM for the past couple of days, but it's seemed dry. I do usually have a fairly long fertile mucus patch before O, but things can change, right?

[tlew12778]

Mel - er... I'm not really seeing O there... not sure what FF is thinking. I think it likes that dip.

Welcome back Sevilla!

Heat waves and your charts - What to do about them? It hit like 100F here and my temps went up bc it's soooo hot at night. I know I have not O'ed yet (way too early for me, plus I still have copious amounts of EWCM). I am pretty sure FF will call O with tomorrow's temp (assuming it's like the last 3 days) since the heat wave is not expected to let up.

[Clattercote]

AdSigMel - Could be, but I'm guessing no...there's just not the 3 above six thing, and given the rest of the temps this cycle, I'm not yet willing to shave anything down. The last cycle you O'd, what was your CL (or LTL and HTL) - that *could* help decipher that a bit, though since it's so long in between Os for you, I don't know if that would be an accurate indicator - but it might be something to at least keep in mind...

[Clattercote]

tlew - Maybe use TAONFP's temp rules this cycle for clarity about the shift? Because even if FF calls O tomorrow, you're not remotely in the land of .4 degree above the LTL - I guess what I'm thinking is that the heat wave doesn't affect basal temp that much - it's looking like .1 degree for you, based on where your CL was last cycle. So if we can see an overall .4 degree shift (even if you end up shaving down a couple temps in there on the hotter days), it should be a pretty good indicator this cycle....

[meggers]

I finally O'd on CD37. I told DH that I would feel comfortable UDD on Monday night, but I don't know that he is ready for that. I really hope that I have a short LP this cycle otherwise AF is going to hit right in time for my company's golf outing.

[kemaji]

Welcome back Sevilla!

I'm excited because I just had an LP of 12 days for the first time in close to a year. The only thing I did differently this cycle was to exercise consistently. I'm hoping this isn't a fluke, but my chart was the prettiest it has been in a very long time.

[Sevilla]

Kemaji: Thanks for the welcome back! I used to have a short LP too (10-11 days) and then I got it extended to 13-15 days through some vitamins, so i totally understand the excitement of having a longer one!

[Reenie]

Sevilla I noticed your post about the B6, Magnesium, and Zinc in the LPD thread; how far in advance of your TTC date did you start taking them? And did you discontinue their use when you started TTC, after getting pregnant, after the first trimester, or did you take them throughout your pregnancy? Also, how long did you take them before you saw the results of a longer LP? Did you previously spot during your LP? Did you ask your doctor about taking those supplements, or did you do it without consultation? Finally, did you take another vitamin (daily women's or prenatal) in addition?

Sorry for asking so many questions, but we're going to TTC next July, and I am hoping to that we get a quick payoff from charting, although I think I have pretty short LPs (chart linked), (http://www.tcoyf.com/forum/chart.asp?id=mrund1) so I would like to try to correct that beforehand, if possible.

[Sevilla]

I noticed your post about the B6, Magnesium, and Zinc in the LPD thread; how far in advance of your TTC date did you start taking them?
I started taking things to correct it a couple years in advance of TTC - we actually didn't know exactly when we would TTC, i just wanted a longer LP ;).

And did you discontinue their use when you started TTC, after getting pregnant, after the first trimester, or did you take them throughout your pregnancy?
The vitamins I was taking to maintain healthier cycles are the same ones found in prenatal vitamins, so i continued taking them when i was TTC and until 8 weeks of pregnancy (b/c i saw my midwife then and she gave me prenatal vitamins that i took instead, i am still taking prenatals now b/c i'm breastfeeding) and when I run out will go back to what i was taking while TTC.

Also, how long did you take them before you saw the results of a longer LP? Did you previously spot during your LP?
With the 100-200mg B6 and 500mg magnesium it took 2-4 cycles to see a difference, and my LP increased by 1-1.5 days.

With the Zinc (20-25mg) i saw a change that same cycle. I was freaked out i was pregnant b/c I suddenly had an LP of 14-15 days, and i had *never* had one longer than 12 days before. Turns out that it was the zinc not pregnancy, and from then on I continued to have longer LP's of about 14 days (a few were 13 days, and a few were 15 days). I believe I had a slight zinc deficiency and that's why my cycles responded so well to it.

Did you ask your doctor about taking those supplements, or did you do it without consultation?
Didn't ask my doctor, took them in consultation with some books on fertility and nutrition (that's where I read about dosages and such).

Finally, did you take another vitamin (daily women's or prenatal) in addition?
No, I did not take another vitamin in addition to what i took (except for an antioxidant that had different things in it). I wouldn't 'double up' on vitamins like that, and I preferred taking my vitamins separately (i also took a daily 400mg folic acid supplement from the time I got married and when we were TTC upped it to 800mg/day).

Hope this helps!

[Reenie]

Thanks, Sevilla, that's exactly what I was looking for. :)

[motray36]

Hi everyone! I wanted to let you all know that I'm moving over to SWH for a few months. I'll be back at the beginning of 2007 if we're not pg by then! Thanks everyone for a great 2 year run :)

[kemaji]

motray -- Congrats!

Updated to here.

[LeslieandPaul]

Stupid heat wave! I've started AF but my temp this morning was a post O temp (always drops for me). I hope the heat doesn't continue like this for too long!

[ADSigMel]

Looks like motray and I will be SWH together. DH and I have been playing sort of fast and loose with the charting for a while, and we since we don't have any particularly serious reasons not to want to have a baby right now, we figure we'll just let nature take it's course. Not sure if we'll punk out and come back to TTA after a couple of months if we don't get pg, or if we'll kick it up a notch and actually start TTC. I'll still be charting, though, either way. It's been an awesome year and a half, girls, and I would have gone crazy from my jacked up cycles without y'all! Thanks for everything!

[kemaji]

Congrats ADSigMel!

Updated to here.

[raven077]

Congrats motray & ADSigMel!

kemaji & Reenie, I also just had a longer LP. I ended up going with FF's assessment of my temps etc. and went from previous cycles of 10-11 days to this one with 13 days! I'm hoping it's not a fluke either, I would like to attribute it to the PNV that *I* just started taking that have 50 mg of B6 on top of the couple of mg that are in my OneADay multi's. I was super excited and trying to explain it to DH last nite. Poor thing, he was trying to be as excited as I was...:p

[Reenie]

Congrats motray and AdSigMel! Good luck! :D

raven So what was in that PNV/what brand was it? I really want to work on my LP now so that when it's time (a year away :rolleyes: I am a total nerd) it will be under control. I know, DHs sometimes just don't get it. I was sooo excited to have real EWCM, but he was just like, "Oh, that's nice."

[TheMarieke]

Welcome back Sevilla!

I have a Q about antibiotics. I've already O'd so there's nothing to worry about there, but I'll be taking antibiotics starting Thursday for my surgery Friday to have my wisdom teeth removed.

Will the antibiotics affect my cycle at all? AF would normally be arriving around Friday or Saturday (more likely Saturday). I figure it will affect it negligibly, but thought I'd ask, just in case. I'm wondering if they'll mess with the next cycle more...

Thank goodness I have the DivaCup so I can stick that in prior to the surgery, just in case!! I'm so glad I bought that thing!

[Sevilla]

I have not had abx affect my cycles at all, but everyone is different. And given where you're at in your cycle the surgery shouldn't affect things too much either hopefully, though maybe you'll have a slightly delayed O next cycle. I hope your wisdom teeth surgery goes well!

[kissmary]

Good luck to motray and AdSigMel!

[raven077]

Reenie, I'm taking Nature's Plus Ultra Prenatal's from Total Health (http://www.totaldiscountvitamins.com/default.asp?CatalogID=63384&SubfolderID=76&AssocID=nextag). I ended up getting them from here because this was the only place I could find another type of vitamin in bulk that my alternative medicine chiro has me taking and I wanted to bring my order total up :p . But since they had all of the ingredients and %dv's listed, they looked like a good choice to me. My chiro took a look at them and said they were ok as well.

They have 50mg B6, 225 mg magnesium and 15 mg zinc, in addition to the 800 mg folate.

Though I was looking in a local healthfood store at their brands this weekend, and those didn't have even close to the same amounts that these do. So if you're looking for a PNV to do the work of these several supplements, you kind of have to pay attention to the labels. I haven't checked out Target brand yet, which I've heard other girls say is good and inexpensive. I personally wouldn't mind taking several different vitamins, but I'm already taking so many that I just couldn't stand the idea of adding four more. :rolleyes:

Also, I don't think it's too early to start addressing a LPD or just taking PNV. It's not like the vitamins are going to waste. Our bodies still need them, right? But I hope that helps some. Again, I can't say for certain that it's the PNV, since it's only been one cycle with a longer LP, but it seems like a pretty big coincidence to me. ;)

[Clattercote]

Congrats, Motray and AdSigMel!

Antibiotics-some kinds give you greater quantity of fertile quality CM but otherwise it doesn't affect anything -

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. I need some expert charters to help out interpret my current chart. If at all possible. It seems like a lot of the girls in the SWH board aren't big on charting.

As you guys know I went on a cruise 2 weeks ago (where we decided to SWH). I don't know if I can trust any of those temps though. Ovusoft says I haven't O'd yet but all of my temps right now are usually temps that I'd have in my post-O phase.

What do you all think?

thanks a bunch!

Sam

[SQ2]

Hi, ladies. Congrats to the recent members who've moved on to TTC. :D

CD93, 14DPO. We've been out of town for a long weekend, just a one time zone shift. When we arrived I kept my home time zone for temp recording the first morning and then switched for the rest of the days. This morning (1st morning back) I temped on vacation time zone. I'm hoping that will take care of any discrepancies or at least help estimate better what my temps really were over the weekend.

I'm really hoping AF holds off until tomorrow at least because that would mean a guaranteed 14 day LP! :D My first three of BCP were only 10 days and my last one was 13 (but it was a fall back rise so it could have been just 11 days, not sure). I've been skimming recent posts and it seems like there is some evidence for PNV lengthening LPs? Is that true? I started taking them at the beginning of July so maybe this is the reason?

I've been really nervous about when AF is going to arrive. I have this notion in my head that since I haven't had AF since April that the flow is going to be really heavy...since the lining hasn't been shed in so long. Is that true? I've had occasional bloating and cramps the last couple days but nothing major and I feel like it's sort of in my head. It will be nice to get this cycle overwith and finally move on to a new cycle!

[LIZNKEITH]

Sam,
I'm going to venture to guess that you have not yet O'd. I don't see a clear temp shift and no prescence of fertile quality CM. Looking at your other charts, it looks like you usually O later in your cycle so i would keep SWH. :)

Congrats to the Grads!!

Antibiotics,
I never have noticed a change in temps, but I have had it influence my CM. Well, not exactly. I had to take them after my HSG which caused a YI which made it a little difficult to interpret my CM.

[mlfallis]

mlfallis

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee6c5

Real name:Melissa (25)
DH's name: Scott (24)
Occupation: Engineer
Married: June 10, 2006
Started charting (date, if known): July 23, 2006
TTC: Spring 2007

Off to learn more..... hopefully I won't have to do much actual work today and I can learn lots here.
eta: link to chart.

[akacharlotte]

Does anyone else suffer from severe bloating after O and pre AF? I seriously look about 3 months pregnant from bloating. Is there anything you take to relieve the bloating? Does Pamprin etc really work?

TIA

[tbell]

Last month was my first month off of BCP. I O'd and AF came, but no CM.

This month my temps are all over the place. FF says that I temped at different times but I am ultra-religious about temping at the exact same time each morning. I *thought* I had EWCM one day but it could have been seminal fluid. Other than that day I haven't had any CM. FF says I should O tomorrow but, again, with no CM I can't tell.

Anyway, if someone could take a peek at my chart I would greatly appreciate it. Things may be totally normal but with this being my first full month of charting, I have no idea what to look for.

TIA!

FF CHART (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/113206)

[Sevilla]

Tbell: In general the 2nd post-pill cycle seems to be pretty wacky. FF is probably telling you that b/c of the big temp dip on CD13. I would just ride it out and try to be patient (hard i know!)

[candy corn]

Does anyone else suffer from severe bloating after O and pre AF? I seriously look about 3 months pregnant from bloating. Is there anything you take to relieve the bloating? Does Pamprin etc really work?

TIA


thanks for posting this!! I have been noticing this lately too and thought that I was just really making (pardon the pun) a mountain out of a molehill and that maybe it's not too noticeable... but I've definately been pulling out all my baggy shirts these last few days!!

I hear that bloating can be caused by taking in too much salt and caffeine - I know I have a mild addiction to Diet Coke, but I'm really hoping there's a better solution than quitting!!! hopefully someone else will have something more productive to offer - I'm interested too!! :rolleyes:

[clzj]

Just joining. Still TTA.

[Reenie]

Raven Thanks for that info. I'm definitely going to look into it.

Hi clzj :)

[kemaji]

Sam -- If CD15 - 17 weren't there, I'd say you O'd even though the temp shift that would be there doesn't coincide with fertile CM. It's really hard to say, considering you were travelling and we've all seen how travel can affect some people's cycles. Sorry I can't be of more help....

mlfallis -- Welcome!

Updated to here.

[tbell]

Tbell: In general the 2nd post-pill cycle seems to be pretty wacky. FF is probably telling you that b/c of the big temp dip on CD13. I would just ride it out and try to be patient (hard i know!)

Thanks! We'll just see what happens, I guess. :)

[SQ2]

Do you guys think Ovusoft got my O date correct? I'm now 15DPO and no AF. Past cycles my LP was 10 or 11 days (1st, 2nd, & 3rd cycle off BCP), the last cycle it was 13 days (with a fall-back shift so maybe less). I took an HPT today for piece of mind - and because this cycle is driving me crazy (around lunchtime today) and BFN. Is my LP just getting crazy long all of a sudden? What do you think?

Thanks in advance! :)

[Reenie]

SQ2 I am wondering if maybe you didn't O until CD 84? It's hard to tell from your CM pattern, so I can see why Ovusoft is calling it that way, too. Sorry for the stress.

[SQ2]

Thanks, Reenie. That was one thought I had - but have 4 sustained high temps before my temp dips back down so it just seems weird and I can see why Ovusoft called O when it did. Hmm.....:confused:

Anyone else want to weigh in?

[TheMarieke]

I was thinking the same thing as Reenie (maybe a slow rise or something?) especially since you have a day of fertile CM.

Do you check CM internally or externally?

It's really hard to say...I suppose you'll see when AF arrives! Sorry I can't help more.

[SQ2]

Do you check CM internally or externally? Internally. And I'm still not completely confident that I get it right all the time. I think the EWCM that I saw on CD83 was very slight..there wasn't a whole bunch of it, it was very thin, almost like nothing there, but what was there did stretch. People here have said you can get EWCM after O. I'm not sure what to think.

Thanks for the input! :D

* * *

I guess now I'm not sure what to do. I guess it's just a waiting game. My doctor said to contact her if I haven't gotten AF after 90 days. Well, I thought that point was moot since I'm pretty sure I ovulated so I wouldn't need progesterone to raise my temp anymore, right? Would a situation exist where one doesn't get AF, even if they ovulate?

I'm thinking if AF doesn't arrive after 18DPO I should call my doctor? (Since that's when TCOYF says you should definitely know whether or not you're pg if your temp stays elevated.)

[TheMarieke]

I'm not sure on that, but considering how long your cycle has been and everything, if I were in your shoes, I'd want to go in to my GYN to figure things out regardless of whether AF ends up arriving soon.

I just flipped through your charts and I noticed that your post-O temps have been gradually lowering overall cycle by cycle. At the same time, your cycle has lengthened each time.

There could be a direct link there and your GYN may be able to figure it out. I'm guessing that may not be a coincidence, although I have absolutely no idea what it would be (my guess would be hormonal changes).

Did you come off BCP 4 cycles ago? I don't recall offhand...

[raven077]

Welcome to mlfallis and clzj. :)

[SQ2]

Marieke ~ I went off the pill 5 cycles ago (the first one I didn't use Ovusoft, just a paper chart). I have heard it's pretty normal to have long cycles after the pill, at least I think so. (Anyone want to back me up on that?:confused: ) And the extreme long length of this last one seems like a textbook case of traveling overseas delaying O. I think I will tell my doctor how long this cycle was and ask if there's anything I should be concerned about.

But...since I last posted...AF showed up! :D And OMG, have I been moody today. Lots of crying for reasons I didn't think I should cry about. I thought I'd lost it...LOL. Then I go into the bathroom and realize...oh so THAT's why I've been an emotional freak the past couple days. :rolleyes: It's so interesting to me all the different things my body is doing each cycle. I never had PMS on the pill so I've forgotten what it's like. Thanks so much to everyone for your input. On to the next cycle. I really hope this one is more of normal length.

One more thing...DH has agreed to actually TTA next cycle! (As in no protection during infertile days.) Up until now we've been protected all the time. I'm excited to finally be able to put my knowledge to good use. :D I think he's also more ok with it because we are so close to TTC so if an oops happened next month it wouldn't be the end of the world, but I'm hoping it doesn't so I can prove to him that this method works!

[TheMarieke]

Oh that's right, I forgot you had travelled (I am still in the process of getting to know people, so I confuse who said what sometimes).

I was just kinda throwing out guesses and thoughts anyway, just in case something was actually useful :p

[akacharlotte]

[It's so interesting to me all the different things my body is doing each cycle.

I agree with this. I've now realized that in the days before AF I have a headache every single day. Third day and counting. AF is expected to arrive between now and Sunday. I also notice cramping around O and when my emotions are out of whack AF is right around the corner etc.

[meggers]

What is the difference between spotting and light flow?

[LIZNKEITH]

SQ2,
Congrats on getting DH to DTD during the infertile time!! That's a huge step!

Meggers
I usually consider spotting to be the brown blood. Not sure what everyone else does though.


My chart is so effed up. FF has me down as O'ing on CD 14 which I totally disagree with. I think I O'd yesterday, but in that case my CM is way off. I dunno. If I am correct about my O date, that means that I'll probably have another 9 day LP. Looks like I'm going to have the same problems I had pre-pregnancy. :rolleyes:

[SQ2]

LIZNKEITH ~ I'm glad to hear my DH isn't the only guy out there that's freaked out about UDD.

I think one thing I'm a little concerned about is making sure my BIP is correct. I'm not really sure if it's dry or sticky. I seem to have a mix of each during infertile times each cycle. I was reading in TCOYF last night (p.353) about how UDD on preovulatory sticky days is only safe if you have a BIP of sticky as opposed to dry. I feel like either I have sticky most days, or I'm calling something sticky, when it's in fact dry.

Also, the first rule for UDD is the 1st 5 days Rule. Does anyone actually DTD during AF?

[kemaji]

meggers -- I consider spotting to be either brown blood OR red as long as I don't need anything more than a pantyliner.

SQ2 -- We do, but only in the shower because of the mess. :o

[akacharlotte]

LIZNKEITH Also, the first rule for UDD is the 1st 5 days Rule. Does anyone actually DTD during AF?


Yes, during the last couple of days of AF because my flow decreases. Never the first day. I would be too uncomfortable.

[Reenie]

We don't DTD during AF, but if I'm just spotting a little, then sometimes, yes.

[raven077]

SQ2 -- We do, but only in the shower because of the mess. :o

LOL! Same here, though we haven't in a while. :o But usually if we do, it's during spotting or the lightest flow. And I consider spotting to be anything that's got a brownish tinge.

I still don't feel über comfortable with UDD during phase 1. My BIP DOES appear to be sticky, not dry, but I'm still being cautious due to all my years on BCP, in case my body still isn't 100% back to normal. I think we did it two cycles ago though and I was nervous until it was apparent that O was definitely more than 5 days past when we did it.

[Reenie]

Question about CM

I had a pelvic exam today, so the doctor used lube to get in there. Of course, I wiped very thoroughly after the exam, but I've felt wet all day long. I'm also pretty sure that I O'd today and will have a temp shift tomorrow because 1) My body is so predictable, 2) All signs leading up to today would indicate it, and 3) I had ovulation pain today. My question is: should I record today as "watery" or could it be the lube and not my CM (my pelvic was at 10:30 this morning)?

[Clattercote]

Reenie Since it's ambiguous (it very well might be the lube, and that was earlier in the day) - I'd note it as watery, and see how it plays into the signs you notice today, tomorrow, etc.

[meggers]

Well, AF officially came yesterday. My LP was very short (only 6 days). I'm sure my body is just trying to get back into the swing of things after having a baby and that my LP will increase as time goes on.

[TheMarieke]

Man, AF is NOT cooperating with major events going on in my life. I'm having my wisdom teeth taken out today and I'm starting to cramp. Maybe I shouldn't have wished for an earlier AF, gosh darnit! Either way, I would normally get it tomorrow, which isn't that much better...

I'm SO GLAD I got a Diva Cup, though!! I don't like putting in tampons if AF isn't in town, but the Diva Cup isn't that big a deal to put in.

[honeygirl]

Hello ladies, I know I'm a TTA grad, but I'm hoping that you can help me out.

We're on our 3rd month TTC and my current cycle has been really weird. I think that I o'd, but it might be wishful thinking. If I did I have NO idea when. I usually take progesterone after I O b/c of spotting and to help with TTC, and I haven't started it yet this cycle b/c I don't have a O date. However, I had some spotting today, which is what happens without progesterone and is making me worry.

Can any of you wise charting ladies give me some chart interpretation and advice?

http://www.tcoyf.com/forum/chart.asp?id=honeygirl (Ovusoft chart - they think I'm in the infertile phase but can't identify when I O'd)

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424 (FF chart - they think I o'd btw)

Thanks ladies!!

-anne

[Reenie]

Anne I'm kinda wondering if you actually O'd on CD 27? It's hard to tell because of the semen obscured CM, and I know that's kind of late compared to your previous cycle, but that's how it looks to me. Did Ovusoft adjust your temp today? I know that sometimes "they" say that spotting at O indicates a strong O, so that could be good...

[honeygirl]

Thanks for responding Reenie! Ovusoft didn't adjust anything this am, my usual temp time is 7:30 and I took it at 7:10. My only concern with spotting is that before I took progesterone I would spot about 2-3 DPO until AF and so I'm thinking I should start the meds today! If I didn't O and I take the progesterone I'm not sure what that would do to my cycle.

[tgr68]

honeygirl~I'm thinking you O'ed sometime from CD25-27.

[kemaji]

Honeygirl, I'm inclined to agree with Reenie, providing your temps stay up. There is a possibility that you could have O'd on CD26 instead of 27, but without the CM info (and the small temp increase), I'd say CD27 is more likely.

[honeygirl]

Thanks ladies, I appreciate the imput. I really miss this thread, I think that the best charters are in here. :) I'm going to go ahead and start progesterone tonight, just in case. This was a stressful month, so maybe that's why my O was delayed. I'm seeing the dr (again) next week so I'll go over all this with her then.

Have a great weekend!

[Reenie]

Shoot, I just looked again and realized that I confused CDs with days of June... so in that case, honeygirl, I'd put your O at CD 28 (aka June 27 ;) ).

[honeygirl]

Shoot, I just looked again and realized that I confused CDs with days of June... so in that case, honeygirl, I'd put your O at CD 28 (aka June 27 ;) ).

Oh I know, this whole cycle has confused me with the cd and the actual dates being 1 different. ;) I hope that it was the July 27th (or earlier), that is semi close for our BD schedule (late night on the 25th).

[kemaji]

Shoot, I just looked again and realized that I confused CDs with days of June... so in that case, honeygirl, I'd put your O at CD 28 (aka June 27 ;) ).

I did the same thing... :o

[Clattercote]

honeygirl - I think today might be the start of a potential 3-day count for temps - I'd put O somewhere around yesterday or today, and I have the thought that perhaps the spotting you're seeing today is part of the bleeding some women see sometimes around O. I think taking the progesterone starting today would be a fine thing - HTH and good luck!

[Reenie]

Question about vitamins and LP

Okay, we went to Vitamin World today (please tell me if these are not quality vitamins), and got:
*Vitamin B-6 (as Pyridoxine Hydrochoride) 50 mg
*Chelated Zinc (as Zinc Gluconate) 25 mg
*Magnesium (as Magnesium Oxide) 500 mg [planning to cut these in half]

Are these right for lengthening the LP? I am thinking that I should start them on CD1, right? And should I introduce one each month to see what's doing the trick, or just do all three? (in case it matters, I D/C'd my daily woman's MVI and just take 400 mcg Folic Acid at this point). Also, does anyone know if taking these for an extended period of time (a year or more) can be harmful (particularly the B6)? I've read about B6, toxicity, and ULs, but it looked like 50 mg is okay...

[Sevilla]

I would take all three starting wherever you are at in your cycle. There is no problem with staying on them an extended length of time. - they're helping regulate your body. B6 is safe up to 100mg and for some people 200ng has no ill effects either (i read up a lot on B6 toxicity and from what i gathered taking too much for your body produces notable symptoms that would tell you to stop, so if you feel fine there's no need to worry). HTH!

[Reenie]

Okay, thanks Sevilla. :)

[SQ2]

Happy to report that we had our first UDD using the 1st 5 Days Rule. Hee hee. :D DH is still skeptical and we were actually talking about it a lot today and I showed him all the rules in the book. The one thing that concerns him is that there doesn't seem to be hard scientific evidence that this method works, or more specifically that he doesn't trust the figure they do give because it's not clear if they account for error. :confused: On pg. 355 of TCOYF there's a contraceptive method effectiveness table. At the bottom it says:

Contraceptive Technology puts NFP method failure of the sympto-thermal rules taught in this book at 2%. The sympto-thermal user failure rate is not listed. Based on the various studies throughout the medical literature, the traditionally calculated user failure rate appears to be about 10 to 12%. Hoever, when intentional violation of the method rules is factored out, this number falls substantially.

DH's question is: Does the "method failure" depend on "user failure"? In other words,does the x% method failure rate assume a 0% user failure rate, or does it assume the actual user failure rate? Depending on the answer, arethese numbers then consistent with the way the charting method failure rates are reported?

I apologize in advance for this question. My DH is a bit of a math nerd and doesn't believe anything unless there's statistical proof. :rolleyes: But, I'm willing to find this evidence if it means he'll trust this method. (In fact, when I told him that there are people on this thread that have been using this method for 2-3 years and haven't gotten pregnant he said that that's only 36 cycles so it's not statistically significant. Ugh! :rolleyes:

Now my questions...

* What FAM rules do people feel the least comfortable with in terms of UDD? I guess at first glance for me it's the Dry Day Rule because my CM seems to change a lot and I'm not sure if I have a dry or sticky BIP. With the LP rules it seems those would be more trustworthy since they kind of corroborate each other (temp shift, plus CM dry-up).

* (This was actually DH's question)... If you make an error in where you draw your coverline (i.e. if you take your temp incorrectly and you record it as lower than it was, you could draw your coverline too early), is this risky in terms of following the rules? For example you might think you had a temp jump but you really didn't because your coverline was drawn too low. Does that make sense?

I told him that even if you thought you had a temp jump, CM would tell you otherwise. If you were still fertile, you'd have fertile CM and you'd know not to UDD, until you had a dry up AND a temp shift. Am I right?

Thanks in advance for your help, ladies. Even though we'll be TTC soon, I really want to understand this method, especially since we'll probably use it in the future.

[tlew12778]

SQ2 - Wow. Um, congrats?

I don't see how the method failure rate cannot not depend on the user failure rate. I mean, what are they using to calculate the failure rate if not users of the method? Although I suppose it could also mean "how many ppl get pregnant when using the method perfectly?". If you apply the same theory to barrier methods, that is how they define the method failure rate I think. Regardless, in the history of all the threads (15 I think?), not one person has gotten pregnant when following all the rules. What does your DH consider statistically relevant? Heather successfully charted to avoid for 5 years. Do 60 cycles count?

Personally, I feel the least comfortable with the last dry day rule. Don't ask me why. I have a pretty reliable CM pattern. I'm just paranoid I think. I *have* been thinking about switching to it or using it in combination with other rules, but I haven't done so yet. Mind you... my 2 year anniversary is coming up in October, so it's taken me a long time to get to this point.

Your CL is only something you need for hindsight really (to see your biphasic pattern). Your CL does not tell you when you O. The CL is only the horizontal part and it gets drawn AFTER you have confirmed O with temps. So I don't really see how you can mistake drawing your CL. You could mistake confirming O which would in turn lead to a mistaken CL (since you cannot draw a CL without O)... This is why we need 3 high temps and dry up to call O.

There are times when your CM will not coincide with O. Look at my current chart as an example. I do not note CM when I don't have it. So you will see that I have had NO CM in the last week or so. This is due to me being poorly hyrdrated in the midst of a heatwave. My two open circles are due to me temping 2 hours earlier than normal and my temps are not adjusted, but had I adjusted them, they'd be even higher. The only reason I feel comfortable with UDD right now is bc I know my cycles and I know my body. Otherwise, the lack of CM would make me skeptical about just trusting temps alone.

Anyway, HTH!

[SQ2]

SQ2 - Wow. Um, congrats? Haha. Hey, man, it's a big deal to me as we haven't had UDD since November. ;) Although I suppose it could also mean "how many ppl get pregnant when using the method perfectly?". That's what's missing and what we're curious about. (But then how would you really know if they're using the method perfectly? There's really no way to know for sure. If you look at that chart on pg 355, they have typical user failure for all methods of birth control, except FAM. This is what he wants to know. I think I'm going to look up the book they refer to (Contraceptive Technology) which my DH thinks might have that number.

Personally, I feel the least comfortable with the last dry day rule. Me too. The only reason I feel comfortable with UDD right now is bc I know my cycles and I know my body. For me, since I've only charted for 5 cycles and my cycles have been all over the place, I don't feel like I know my body yet. I do feel confident in my understanding of the rules though which is why I'm ok with trying the method this month, but we'll be extra careful.

I trust that this method works. I wish my DH wasn't being so damn annoying about it, but it's just in his nature (to want empirical proof in the form of scientific studies/numbers). It's irritating that I tell him about this thread and he doesn't seem to give it any credit or it doesn't matter much to him. :mad: Basically he'd prefer to just use condoms until we're ready to TTC, then *possibly* use FAM in between kids, but then when we're done he wants a vasectomy. :rolleyes: I wish he would be more into it or at least have a little more respect for it than he does. I kind of feel like this charting thing is my own little fun project, but when it comes down to using it regularly for birth control, he's not completely comfortable with it. It's like he doesn't trust me, it, or mostly the fact that he hasn't found hard evidence for it's effectiveness yet. Again...really annoying.

Anyways, thanks for your thoughts! :)

[tlew12778]

Oh sorry, I didn't mean the congrats in a belittling way. I meant it in a "wow, your hubs is sort of anal way" (sorry, sorry... but those questions! Is he an engineer?). I do mean that in the lightest sense though. He's definitely a smartey :).

Well, FWIW, most of us have gone through the same skepticism by our DH/FH's parts. I honestly have no idea why DH trusts my chart analysis so much. When I first started charting, his big claim was "human bodies are not machines -- you cannot predict that they will always function according to the book"... yet he's an MD. I think the reason he trusts me so much is really bc he craves the UDD so much.

[SQ2]

Oh sorry, I didn't mean the congrats in a belittling way. I meant it in a "wow, your hubs is sort of anal way" Oh, no biggie. It's always hard to tell what people mean online. DH was a math major in college and has worked in lots of math/computer related jobs since then. He's definitely a smarty-pants...smart, but often in a smart-ass way. Hehe. What I mean is that sometimes it's hard to have a casual conversation with him because he's always asking follow-up questions and arguing his point. It's infuriating sometimes but in some ways it's a quality I love about him just the same. :)

[Sevilla]

WARNING - Long answer ahead!

SQ2: Congrats on UDD! It feels sort of scary the first few times but then you get used to it. In fact, when my DH and I started TTC it was hard for me to believe that having sex unprotected could result in pregnancy b/c we'd had UDD when i wasn't fertile for so long with success!

The one thing that concerns him is that there doesn't seem to be hard scientific evidence that this method works, or more specifically that he doesn't trust the figure they do give because it's not clear if they account for error.
He might like The Art of NFP book b/c it has a huge (and very technical) section on the method and user failure rates *for each set of rules* (instead of lumping them all together). Anyway, if he's really interested it's worth picking up just for that section b/c they had a lot of data to work with.

DH's question is: Does the "method failure" depend on "user failure"? In other words,does the x% method failure rate assume a 0% user failure rate, or does it assume the actual user failure rate?
The method failure rate assumes a 0% user failure rate. What you have to keep in mind with TCOYF is that it teaches everyone to use the Last Dry Day rule pre-o, which is statistically the *most risky* rule with the highest user failure rate. In the Art of NFP they differentiate between the 5 day rule and Last Dry day rule - b/c as you can imagine, there is a vast difference in method failure rates the closer you get to potential ovulation! If you follow the most conservative rules (5/6 day rule) then the method failure rate is 1% or less.

What Toni means when she says that the actual user failure rate is harder to calculate with NFP/FAM is b/c it is instantly reversible and when they have done studies there were inevitably couples who decided, mid-cycle, to 'see what happens' instead of TTA - but those cycles were still counted as 'user failure rate' even though the couple intentionally had UDD when they could be fertile and were fine with pregnancy!

This can also be seen in groups of people who are "hard-core avoiding" vs. "spacing children". Statistically, those who are spacing their kids are more likely to play fast-and-loose with the rules b/c it's not as big a deal if they get pregnant a bit sooner than planned, but for those who are not ready for kids at all (or definitely done with them) they have a much higher rate of success b/c they're more motivated and less likely to 'see what happens' on the spur of the moment.

In fact, when I told him that there are people on this thread that have been using this method for 2-3 years and haven't gotten pregnant he said that that's only 36 cycles so it's not statistically significant. Ugh!
But that is statistically significant! Birth control rates of success/failure are calculated based on one year of use! A method failure rate of 2% (for example) means this = "Out of every 100 women using this method for a year, 2 will become pregnant within one year." So the fact that we have a number of women who are over a year (and even 2-3 years) without pregnancy is very statistically significant!

i've been on this thread group since it started 4 years ago and we have had over 200 members in that time. In that time our success statistics have *exceded* those in the books. We have had one condom failure (and the perfect/method use rate for condoms is 2%), and about 15 'user failures' (and over half of those were people who decided to 'see what happens' knowing they were fertile, and the other people can point to the rule they broke that got them pg - for all of them it was the Last Dry Day rule or another pre-o rule).

Anyway - with over 200 members so our statistics over the long haul are very very good! Method failure of less than 1%, user failure of about 90% (with many of those intentionally 'failing' ;)). Not to mention the fact that the majority of our 'graduates' have gone on to have successful pregnancies when they decided to TTC, which means that the other argument people use of "Well, they probably had fertility issues anyway which means that it wasn't the method working, it was that their bodies didn't work" isn't true.

Just in my close circle of friends, 3 other ladies and myself all used the method for at least 2 years, and all got pregnant as soon as we started TTC and none of us miscarried. That tells me it works well even with people with high fertility!

What FAM rules do people feel the least comfortable with in terms of UDD?
Hands down, the Last Dry Day rule is the riskiest rule. The 5/6 day rule is the most effective pre-O, and i personally am a big fan of the Doering rule (on the first page of this thread) b/c it's accurate while still giving you more UDD time than the 5 day rule (in most cases). Also remember that if you are *ever* in doubt - use protection. The vast majority of 'surprise' pregnancies with FAM come from unprotected sex pre-ovulation, so that is when you need to be the most cautious.

If you make an error in where you draw your coverline (i.e. if you take your temp incorrectly and you record it as lower than it was, you could draw your coverline too early), is this risky in terms of following the rules? For example you might think you had a temp jump but you really didn't because your coverline was drawn too low. Does that make sense?

I told him that even if you thought you had a temp jump, CM would tell you otherwise. If you were still fertile, you'd have fertile CM and you'd know not to UDD, until you had a dry up AND a temp shift. Am I right?

Your answer is absolutely correct. FAM has a system of checks and balances drawn into it. If you are truly waiting for 3 days of drying up of CM and are doing your best to draw an accurate coverling (not trusting FF or Ovusoft ;)) then the chances of you making a mistake and winding up pregnant to due UDD at that time are very very very low. Another thing is that the more cycles of experience you have, the more you will see that your coverline will stay fairly consistent between cycles so you'll know what to look for. For example, my coverline was always at least 98.0, and sometimes would jump to 98.4. So there's no way I would think that i was past ovulation if my temps were 97.8 or so, yk? And that's also why we have this thread - so that you can get the opinion of others on your chart and how to calculate when you are truly post-O. Again, the Art of NFP has a great section on post-O rules.

I really like the Art of NFP book. The religious dogmatism can be a bit much if you're not prepared for it, but the technical side of it is *superb* and i really really prefer their rules to that of TCOYF b/c they are much more tailored to your specific cycles instead of a 'one size fits all' (and thus i feel are more accurate in the long run).

Anyway, I hope that helps! Let me know if you have any questions :).

[Sevilla]

Here is the link to our old thread on the WC which includes links to all previous threads if your DH wants to count the rosters (members) and such. We had 12 antigrads in the 3 years those threads existed :).

http://boards.weddingchannel.com/thread.jspa?threadID=488541

[Clattercote]

SQ2 - Just want to ditto Sevilla's explanation and recommendation to look at Art of NFP. If you google Current Medical Research (CMR) and USCCB (catholic bishops) you will get a link to a newsletter put out by Dr. Richard Fehring at Marquette University that compiles, summarizes and provides bib records for all the most recent research relating to NFP. I have found it fascinating and informative - and I've often gone to the actual journal itself to look up info. Your husband might look at that -

Let me also say: usually birth control failure rates are reported with 2 stats, for ALL methods: the method failure rate and the user failure rate. The method failure rate assumes that a couple is using the BC in the proper way all the time (e.g. for the Pill, taking it everyday at the same time; for the condom, wearing it the correct way; for STM, following all the rules). The user failure rate, however, demonstrates the rates for typical use, including people who follow the rules and those who don't. What Weschler is referring to by taking out those people who deliberately don't follow the rules, are those people who have, in effect, decided to TTC instead of using the rules. So I think that it makes sense to factor those people out.

In terms of which rules make me feel the if-iest: definitely the Last Dry Day
rule. I follow the clinical experience rule for determining the end of Phase I; for most women this is CD 5 or 6 depending on how short the cycle is, and ONLY if there's no CM prersent.

The start of Phase III is, imo, the least iffy set of rules - Yes, it is entirely possible for Phase III to be misidentified if the CL is set too low - which is why consistency in taking temps time wise is so important. But if the time is pretty consistent, a sustained shift is a VERY good indicator of O, and using temp to mark O is used in all sorts of studies, including those not remotely related to NFP use. (i.e. biologists will use it when studying the cycles of gorillas, etc). Temp shift has been scientifically documented since the late 19th c - I have no qualms about using temp to identify Phase III, but I do sometimes ask for help in identifying a temp shift itself. Cross checking is also a great help -

HTH!

Edited bc my brain is off and I can't remember titles of books!

[SQ2]

Clattercote & Sevilla ~ THANK YOU SO MUCH! http://www.kenandkeli.com/images/smilies/bow.gif I really appreciate all the information. This really helps. I'm sure I'll be back if DH has more questions. LOL. ;)

[TheMarieke]

Wow, I'm gonna have to do a lot of reading to catch up with you ladies!

I'm back in the swing of things and my surgery went well. AF didn't arrive till Sunday and I don't know whether that was good or bad. I've decided that it's going to come when it comes and I'll just be prepared for whatever happens and do my best to track things well.

I missed taking my temps while I was staying at DF's so he could take care of me (I don't know how accurate they would have been anyway considering I was waking up a lot), but I got started again today. At least it wasn't a bad time to take a temp break since it was over the end of one cycle and beginning of the next.

If my cycle stays normal this time around, I should get AF the Thursday before the wedding. Not great, but definitely not the worst, so I'm a little relieved. I just hope I can *actually* stop obsessing about AF!!

[raven077]

Clattercote & Sevilla ~ THANK YOU SO MUCH! http://www.kenandkeli.com/images/smilies/bow.gif I really appreciate all the information. This really helps. I'm sure I'll be back if DH has more questions. LOL. ;)

Wow.. yeah, there is a lot of knowledge here. You guys are awesome.

[Reenie]

See, this is what I get for saying that I have boring, predictable, easy-to-read charts. :rolleyes: Would you look at my chart (http://www.tcoyf.com/forum/chart.asp?id=mrund1) and help me to determine when I ovulated? Ovusoft says that it can't tell... I'm pretty sure that it happened on CD 15 (July 27), but that actual day was excluded because I woke up an hour early and I don't like to have my temps adjusted for me. Also, if that was O day, then my post-O temps have been even lower than usual (I'm trying to figure out if this may have something to do with the A/C for this extreme heat?). I'm not really sure what's going on... my chart is a little wonky this month, and I took last month off since we were on vacation for the second half of the month...

[Clattercote]

Reenie - Even though it does look like there's a temp shift there, the presence of fertile CM is giving me pause - I am not sure you've O'd yet, and another part of the reason is exactly the fact that if we did say that it was a temp shift on CD 15, your post-O temp would be lower than in previous charts. It seems to me that most women have pretty consistent pre-O and post-O temps, and looking at your past charts that seems to be the case for you - pre-O seems to be 97.7 and below, and post-O seems to be about 97.9 and above. Where are you residing at the moment? Have you been affected by the recent heat wave? I'd wonder more if that's raising your pre-O temps slightly than usual - but the fact that CM is still looking fertile makes me especially think that way.

[jnettie]

Hi all! I think I'm finally ready to join you guys. I was hesitant at first, because my cyles are super long (45-60 days on average), but I was encouraged by ADSigMel in another thread to come on over!

About me and DH:

Real name: Jeanette, 28
DH's name: Cory, 28
Occupation: Me - Costume Designer, DH - PhD student/college teacher
Married : June 25, 2005
Started charting : Aug/Sept, 2006
TTC: undecided

I just orderd "Taking Charge of Your Fertility" and a thermometer from Amazon, so as soon as I get it, I should begin my charting! Until then, I'll continue to lurk around here and peek at you online charting a bit. ;)

[TheMarieke]

Ummmm....I have no idea what to think about this.....

Ok, so I started using the Divacup. Well, yesterday, I had it in all day (ended up being longer than 12 hours - 8am-after midnight - cause I forgot about it and got home way later than normal). It was just spotting, but there was some fluid, so I thought, hey, I'll check it and see what quality CM it is.... it was stretchy like EWCM!! At CD4!!!!! It was much watery than my normal EWCM, but DEFINITELY stretchy (it stretched a good inch and a half at least). I'm not sure what to do or think. It was odd, cause I normally have red flow CD1-5. AND, I DID have red flow this morning (just a little, but it was bright red).

Could the meds I've been taking be throwing it off? I've been taking Amoxicillin regularly due to my wisdom teeth surgery, but forgot all day yesterday till the evening (oops). Or could it be just that it was sitting in the cup all day and congealed or something?

I'm afraid this means I can't UDD for the first 5 CDs.

*HELP*

Do you think if I freak out enough over this it will delay my O this month? heh....*crawls into hole in the ground*

[TheMarieke]

Oh, welcome jnettie!!!!

Don't mind me, I'm getting married in 3 1/2 weeks and expecting AF around that time...grr...

[mlfallis]

Welcome Jeanette.

I am glad there is another newbi with me.

[tlew12778]

Jeanette - Welcome!

Marieke - Just bc you have EWCM now, does not mean you cannot use the Doerhing rule in the future. You use the Doerhing rule in conjunction with CM observation. If you see fertile quality CM before your earliest o-7 days is up, you stop UDD, but it doesn't mean that that day becomes determinate for you for all your future cycles.

[Reenie]

Clattercote- thanks for checking it for me. I actually slept through the alarm this morning, so no temp this morning either. I guess I'll just start over next chart.

[TheMarieke]

tlew, Oh thank goodness!! You just made my day, hahaha!

At least I'll be able to tell a little easier when/if I have fertile quality CM during AF. It's a nice benefit of the Diva Cup, actually (except for freaking me out this time).

[Clattercote]

Marieke - I second tlew, and wanted to add that some women also see some fertile quality CM toward the end of AF that has nothing to do with actual impending ovulation. I am one of these women (and, btw, I use a Keeper Cup, similar to the Diva - I wonder if it were just a pad or tampon we would actually notice the EW) I noticed, after several cycles, that the EWCM always came at the end of my cycle and several days before actual fertility. I also noted that when my real EWCM/fertile stuff appeared, it was typically after a buildup of less fertile CM - like sticky, creamy, etc. But the AF EWCM doesn't have that build up. So once I noticed these things, I was comfortable counting that as AF/Phase I. Now - here's the thing - I had one REALLY short cycle last year where I started seeing buildup of CM around CD 4, which would usually be when I see that AF EWCM - but instead I was seeing a buildup of CM, with it getting more and more fertile each day - and that clued me into early possible ovulation - (I O'd around CD 8 or 9). So it does help to note all the nuances. HTH!

[LeslieandPaul]

Oh, welcome jnettie!!!!

Don't mind me, I'm getting married in 3 1/2 weeks and expecting AF around that time...grr...

I got married last summer and was expecting AF around the time of the wedding. I think all the stress affected my cycle. I had a long cycle and then got my period 4 days before the wedding, but only had bleeding for 2 days (unusual for me) and then I was only spotting VERY lightly the day of the wedding. Maybe you'll have my luck!

[Sue]

My cycle is a bit wacky this month... have seen a temp shift, but no EWCM :confused: Tons of sticky, though - TONS. I didn't temp yesterday, dog emergency, but todays temp was pretty high. I guess we'll see what happens, but I'm stumped!

[kemaji]

jnettie -- Welcome!

Sevilla and Clatter -- All of the information you provided on failure rates is fantastic! If you don't mind, I am going to compile what you've posted and include it as part of the instructional posts at the beginning of the thread. I think that including it would be extremely valuable for any other potential TTA charters. It may take me a couple of days, since I am going on vacation, but I'll be able to work on it on the airplane tomorrow. :)

As for me, I've been taking a zinc supplement almost every day of this cycle, so it will be interesting to see how that affects things. Between that and the exercise, I had a serious temp jump between Wednesday and today (didn't temp yesterday because I turned off my alarm at 6:30 and didn't grab the therm.). I haven't had such a drastic jump since the beginning of temping. It is really cool to see all of these changes!

Updated to here.

[jnettie]

Hi right back! Thanks for the warm welcome!

[TheMarieke]

Clattercote, Thank you for the info. I did notice it was different than any regular EWCM I've had before, so I'll definitely keep note of it.

Leslie, I hope so too!!

Sue, have you been drinking enough water? It could be that you don't have as much moisture in your CM, so it's looking more sticky, rather than EW.

[Clattercote]

AF showed up today - and that means I am beginning my third year of charting to avoid. Yay!

[mlfallis]

Wow that is great Clattercote.

[Sue]

[B]Sue, have you been drinking enough water? It could be that you don't have as much moisture in your CM, so it's looking more sticky, rather than EW.

That's a good point.... Now that I'm thinking about it, I haven't been drinking as much water the last couple of weeks as I usually do.

So maybe I O'd on CD14???

[kemaji]

Clatter -- Congrats!

Updated to here.

[kemaji]

Sue -- Provided your temp stays above the coverline one more day, I would agree with CD14/15 as potential O days. It is hard to say for sure because of your missing temp.

[Sue]

Sue -- Provided your temp stays above the coverline one more day, I would agree with CD14/15 as potential O days. It is hard to say for sure because of your missing temp.

I know... my dog was about to have a bad accident in the house, I couldn't wait to take him out. And of course it had to be an "important" day to miss!

[TheMarieke]

Congrats on your 3rd Chartiversary Clattercote! That's awesome!!

I'm personally hoping that I'll be TTC by or around that point (well, as far as *actual* TTA is concerned), but it's so encouraging to know that others have made it that long.