Putting down non-terminal pet? Please help...

[batgirl]

Hello everyone.

I have thought about posting this thread dozens of times, but chickened out. I know many of you have very strong opionions regarding euthanasia, and don't want to get too flamed... but on the other hand, please let me know if you think this would make me a horrible person... I am really looking for advice, even if its hard to hear...

My DH adopted a cat 12 years ago, and I have lived with him for 6 of these years. According to DH he has "always been a puker", but about 4 years ago the cat got much worse and was throwing up most of his meals. After extensive tests, the vet diagnosed him the inflammatory bowel disease. His small intestine swells up and prevents food from passing out of his stomach, so predigested food ends up everywhere. We tried steroids (they have lost their effectiveness), we have tried every diet under the sun (various prescription diets, pumpkin, venison and pea...) Nothing has worked. The cat seems to have gotten worse of the last year and is currently throwing up 2-4 times per day. He also has the bad habit of throwing up wherever he is... he's thrown up on our bed numerous times, various pieces of furniture, the window (found out you can't get puke out of a window screen once it dries...) behind (and on) the tv... He's thrown up everywhere.

We have tried unsuccessfully to crate train him, my DH refuses to lock him in the bathroom during the day, we live in an apartment so don't have a basement. All we can do is close the door to the bedroom, cover all the furniture with blankets, and hope he is on the floor at the time...

Anyway, I have finally had it. I can't take the vomiting anymore... DH and I fight about it constantly. Plus, we are expecting a baby coming in September and I am so worried he will throw up on the nursery bedding, the new rocking chair, (he already got the new curtains...). I am so frustrated. I don't know what to do. Our old vet said that we will basically have to live with it as long as we can, since there is nothing else that we can do medically... Dh (after many many arguments) said that I can put him down, but that DH can't be there (too hard). I worry that DH will change his mind after I do it, I worry that this will make me a horrible person for putting down an "inconvenient pet", I worry that the stress of wanting things perfect for the baby are influencing my decision, I worry that this will make me evil...

What do you guys think? Has anyone ever put down a non-terminal animal because of something like this? When he's not throwing up, he is a very sweet cat that doesn't seem to be in any pain, which is what makes this decision so hard...

I am angry, frustrated, overwhelmed and feel that putting him down is the right thing to do. I am starting to lose all affection for this cat, and now feel almost sick coming home from work wondering where the puke is... I want this to end, but I feel so guilty. Please help.

[Hello Kitty]

That must be very hard to live with. Have you thought about placing him with an organization or rescue-type place who could find him a new home for his special needs? It sounds to me like the cat's life is fairly good, unless his episodes traumatize him or cause him pain.

[tlew12778]

Hmm... well, I guess my first question is what is the quality of life like for your cat? I can't imagine that throwing up 3-4 times a day is fun. Where is he getting his nutrients from? If the food is not digested, it means he is not absorbing the nutrients. Is he underweight/malnourished?

I would take him to another vet and get a second opinion. I cannot believe they cannot diagnose his problem. Have you tried a raw diet? Or what about just ground up boiled chicken? I have a cat with a sensitive stomach and when he is sick, that is what we have to give him (vets orders).

Also, sometimes the same cat goes on a vomiting spree. One day he vomited over 10 times. We had to give him a shot of reglan. It's the same drug they use for chemo patients, but we have it for the cat (we give him .5cc). Again, this was prescribed by our vet. We always call the vet to get his OK before we give it to him.

If all else fails, I would probably try to adopt the cat out as a special needs cat. That is, unless he is absolutely miserable and cannot function as a cat in which case I might consider putting him down (but that's not much different from a terminal illness IMO).

[BethIrish]

I think you need to have an honest discussion with your husband about this. He would really rather you put the cat down then have her in the bathroom all day?

I have a cat that is a puker. She also inappropriately eliminates. Thankfully, the innappropriate elimination is now confined to the area around her litterbox. (Now, anyway. It used to be wherever she felt like it.) I've tried everything with her. E.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g.

That said, I will not put her down. We are also expecting a child in November. DH has made some grumblings about getting rid of her and I flatly refuse. I made a commitment to her 6 years ago when I adopted her and I stand by that committment. Thankfully, it seems as though my DH understands my committment to her and is (reluctantly) supporting it. He knew about her problems from the get go, and he knew that I would not get rid of her. He took me knowing these things and he can't change the deal now.

Now that you know where I stand, all I will say is that I think that this is a decision you and your DH need to make together. As mentioned, have you though about a rescue organization? Obviously, you are conflicted about it and you're worried about what it will do to him. No matter what anyone on a message board or IRL says, it's your decision regardless of who condemns or condones it. No, I wouldn't do it. I also wouldn't take another cat like mine if I knew about her problems. (Hell, I wouldn't have adopted my cat had I known!) Yes, I'll think you're a jerk if you do it, but really, I'm a nameless face on a message board. ;)

Good luck in your decision.

Oh, and just as a funny (and GROSS) aside....we got a dog 2 years ago. Let me tell you, the puke cleaning up has gone down considerably since Neala entered the picture...

[greenbunny]

I would seek other medical opinions before doing anything else. I find it hard to believe that there is nothing that can be done for him (based on the vet, not based on what you have said).

It is unfortunate your DH won't be flexible about confining the cat. I think if you can keep him in a hard floor area, your stress would be lessened, and I don't think it would affect his quality of life very much.

[Leilynne]

I'm sorry you are dealing with this Batgirl. It sounds like you've tried really hard, it's not like you just put your cat down when he first got sick. With the baby coming I would put the cat down. I agree with the above posters that the cat's quality of life is probably less than stellar with all the vomitting. There can be a lot of issues with cats and babies that you could be dealing with soon anyway. It wouldn't hurt to look for a rescue program that would take him first, if you found one your DH wouldn't have the "I let my cat die" guilt. Even if you couldn't find one he would know that you tried your hardest to save the cat.

[jennylou]

I would second the suggestion to see another vet for a second opinion. Then, if that still doesn't help to solve the problem, rather than putting the cat down, I'd suggest contacting a rescue organization.

[batgirl]

Thanks everyone.

We have had 4 vet opinions regarding this problem and have tried all of their suggestions (one of them suggested the "raw" diet as well, with the boiled chicken and pumpkin... watching DH cook chicken was a hoot, since he's a vegetarian!).

One of the reasons this is so hard is because the cat looks so healthy and happy. He is a great weight, so obviously enough food must pass to provide him with the nutrients he needs, and he is a very happy cat. If he looked sick, or acted sick, it would be much easier.

I've talked to DH about a shelter. He absolutely refuses. He is, of course, worried that someone wouldn't treat him well if he was adopted as a special needs cat. I do understand his concern, but did call a no-kill shelter anyway just to see what they would say. They said that he sounds "unadoptable" but that they would take him. But wouldn't euthanasia be preferable to the rest of his life in a cage?

Man, I don't know what to do... I agree with what many of you have said. And I agree with Bethirish... he's our cat, we can't put him down out of inconvience... that's what my heart says, but I am becoming so frustrated. I can't separate the cat from the vomit anymore... I hate to say it, but I am feeling anger towards him now even though I know its not his fault. Don't get me wrong, I would never mistreat him. He has a great life. But I am really starting to struggle and harbor resentment (towards him and DH...)

[BethIrish]

I've talked to DH about a shelter. He absolutely refuses. He is, of course, worried that someone wouldn't treat him well if he was adopted as a special needs cat. I do understand his concern, but did call a no-kill shelter anyway just to see what they would say. They said that he sounds "unadoptable" but that they would take him. But wouldn't euthanasia be preferable to the rest of his life in a cage?

If you have a no-kill shelter that is willing to take the cat, I strongly urge you and your husband to visit it if he has reservations. The shelter I've adopted 2 cats from was wonderful. Yes, the cats were in "cages," but they were huge! I mean big enough to have the large cat trees in them. They had windows and people who volunteered to come play with them and toys etc. The cats were very well treated. Yes, they were in a shelter - but they had people who loved and cared and played with them. Honestly, that sound preferable to me then ending what sounds like a very sweet cat's life.

eta: After thinking about it a bit, I also wanted to add...your DH says he doesn't want to give up the cat to a rescue because he's afraid if the cat is adopted out that she wouldn't be "treated well?" Does her really think euthanizing her is "treating her well?" I know that is harsh, but it really stuck out to me. Additionally, all of the no-kill shelters near me have a policy that if you adopt a cat from them, they will take that cat back.

[greenbunny]

I hate to suggest this, because I'm so against it, but is it possible to make him an indoor/outdoor cat? It really isn't the best thing for him, but if your DH is refusing to give him to a rescue and the only other option is euthanization, it's better than that.

[batgirl]

greenbunny He's front-declawed, so going outdoors is not an option, but thanks for the suggestion.

bethirish thanks again. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me either. I suggested a no-kill shelter to DH in the past suggesting it would be better than euthanasia, but he adamantly refuses. I think part of the problem is that we have dealt with this so long, and since we are both frustrated, its hard to rationally discuss the topic. DH immediately gets defensive whenever I bring it up, even if I bring it up on a day that the cat doesn't throw up (but these days are very rare anymore...)

I did just call the vet. A co worker of mine suggested I find out what the vet policy for euthanasia is. I am so glad that I did call. The person I talked to suggested a "quality of life" visit. I didn't know that they did these. I must say, being able to discuss our concerns/frustrations with a vet, other than just offering us another x-ray, will help tremendously.

Thank you everyone. I do really appreciate it. I'm going to talk to DH, and make an appt. I'll let everyone know what the vet says.

Thank you. I actually do feel much better.

[BethIrish]

Good luck on your talk with the vet. Even though your DH might get upset with you, I would absolutely bring up the no-kill shelter to your vet and get his/her opinion on it. Maybe coming from a professional it will sound like a more viable option to him.

Your kitty and you are both in my thoughts. Believe me, there are many of us who understand your frustration.

[keska]

First, I want to congratulate you on your patience. It sounds like you and P
your DH have really tried a lot of avenues to help your kitty with this issue.

I would not put my cat down for puking unless my vet said he had quality of life issues. I have a cat with a sensitive stomach. He throws up a couple of times a week, especially if we give him too much food at one sitting. We feed him several really small meals and that seems to help some. I hate cleaning up vomit and I can only imagine how much worse it would be if he was doing it a few times a day. Still, I think I'd rather deal with vomit issues that inappropriate eliminating issues.

I'd probably put my kitty in the bathroom during the day if I was very frustrated or buy one of those kitty play yards that are all covered and limit him to a smaller area. After my lease was up, I'd move to either a place that has hardwood/polished concrete/tile floors that make clean up easier or one that has an extra room or big laundry room that I could make the cat's room. I'd put just kitty furniture or old furniture that could be covered but wouldn't be hurt if puked on in that room.

A lot of your frustration appears to do more with cleaning up things your kitty has thrown up on than just cleaning up vomit. Have you tried training your cat not to climb on furniture by using scat mats and spray bottles? Can you at least close him out of the bedrooms so that he has one less room to access and can't get to the bed or the nursery stuff?

I know you said you tried crate training, what type of crating did you use? Would your DH go for something like this for use during the times when you can't supervise your kitty:
http://a1272.g.akamai.net/7/1272/1121/20051227171906/www.drsfostersmith.com/images/Categoryimages/normal/p_18635_FS27064P_9.jpg
You might be able to adapt it for indoor use and it's big enough to put a litter box in.

[greenbunny]

I do feel your pain. My one cat has inappropriate elimination issues, and the other one is a nervous nelly who throws up about 5-6 times per week now, due to the other one constantly tormenting her. I can't imagine if all that mess were coming out of one cat.

[pride&prejudice]

I am so sorry you are going through this. I have no suggestions since I haven't been through this, but you and your kitty will be in my thoughts.



I would take him to another vet and get a second opinion. I cannot believe they cannot diagnose his problem.
I have to disagree with this. Although it is good to get more than on opinion, sometimes, there are things that take quite awhile to diagnose. I know this since I am going through it right now with my cat. It took 3 episodes for them to finally come close to what they think is the cause of her problems.

[greenbunny]

Although it is good to get more than on opinion, sometimes, there are things that take quite awhile to diagnose. I know this since I am going through it right now with my cat. It took 3 episodes for them to finally come close to what they think is the cause of her problems.

I do think a second (actually a fifth) opinion could help (maybe not the OP, since she's gotten several, but in general), since they are coming at the problem fresh. My first vet never actually did figure out why my one cat was having runny stools, despite a zillion dollars worth of tests over many months. I figured out on my own, with the help of a non-profit volunteer, that it was a grain allergy. I got a new vet, and upon reading her charts, they were astounded that the first vet hadn't even considered allergies.

[maplekitty]

I think this comes down to a quality of life issue. Your kitty is old, he's not a little kitten anymore, and at this age if he's unhappy or in pain then you have to think about what's best for him.

This isn't a new thing, since you've gone to the vet, you've done several rounds of meds, you've tried various techniqies to help him out, and nothing is helping. If this was a new problem, I'd also suggest getting more opinions, but it sounds like you've tried all there is to do.

I'm not going to say yes you should put him down. But I don't think you should feel guilted by anyone - on here or in real life, if that's the decision you choose.

[MLA]

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. I think that pp's have made some really good suggestions. Please really think hard about whether putting him down is better than giving him to a no-kill shelter or confining him to one room in your house. Also, I'm completely against letting cats outside, but in this case, it may be an option. I've met a few cats that were front de-clawed and still managed just fine outside. I think it's a better option than putting him down. If you have this cat put to sleep, I think you'll have guilt issues, and it sounds like your DH will be really upset. I think he's being unfair by putting that decision in your court, as he really needs to help you decide.

Please, please take a serious look at your other options. Also, a friend of mine in CA recently went through cancer w/her cat. She took him to a holistic vet who actually helped quite a bit. He still ended up passing from the cancer (it was just too advanced), but the holistic vet was able to prolong his life and keep him out of pain. Maybe you might consider something like that?

[batgirl]

Maplekitty
Thank you so much! I came on here hoping for opinions/suggestions (and I am getting some wonderful responses, thank you), but this is exactly what I needed to hear.

I feel awful even considering this. But it has gone on so long... I get brave (if that's the right word) and think, yes, its time to do this, but then I think about it... he's so sweet, he's been with us so long (with DH for 12 years), and ultimately we are responsible for him. That's when I begin to question everything, wonder if I'm a bad person. Here I am, believing I am an animal rights advocate, feeling like a big hypocrite...

DH wants to go to the vet tonight. We'll have to see what they say. Regardless, I think I'm losing the nerve again (almost cried when asking vet office if euthanasia really is human...). Course that could change once I get home and see where the vomit is!

Its a vicious cycle... cat pukes, get mad, get in fight with DH, cat's purring, calm down, cat pukes, get mad...

ETA: cross posted with MLA. Yeah, its the guilt that's getting me already... I'll ask about many of the suggestions offered here at the vet. And I'll inquire about holistic medicine.

Thanks everyone.

[greenbunny]

Its a vicious cycle... cat pukes, get mad, get in fight with DH, cat's purring, calm down, cat pukes, get mad...

Oh boy, can I relate! Just ask my LJ buddies how I've been with Summer and her issues. One week I swear I'm taking her back to the rescue, the next I'm upset and pledging to do right by her.

I get mad when she craps on the floor, I feel guilty because she was abused, I get mad when she tortures the other cat, I feel guilty again because I know her problems aren't her fault...

[batgirl]

Oh boy, can I relate! Just ask my LJ buddies how I've been with Summer and her issues. One week I swear I'm taking her back to the rescue, the next I'm upset and pledging to do right by her.

I get mad when she craps on the floor, I feel guilty because she was abused, I get mad when she tortures the other cat, I feel guilty again because I know her problems aren't her fault...

And they say having pets lowers blood pressure! Man, if I can get thru this without needing therapy it'll be a miracle!

Next time I'm getting a goldfish! ;)

[ejs]

I can only share my experience...

I got a kitten when I was in college. She was adorable. When she was about six months old, we were visiting my parents. There was an incident involving my kitten, our black lab, and a fire in the fireplace. The cat was slightly injured. But the incident changed her personality. She became mean and nasty. She'd sit on your lap to be pet and then bite you and run away. She determined when there would be affection.

As she got older, as in over 12, she got even crankier. She also became incontinent. She was actually healthy, though. But she was making a mess of my apartment.

When DH and I moved in together, we knew we couldn't let her pee wherever she wanted. We did talk about having her PTS, but I just couldn't do it. So we designed a section of our house for her. We hooked together a bunch of x-pens, rolled out some remnants of linoleum, put in toys, cat boxes, etc. We put in a chair so she could sit high. She could have jumped over the x-pen from the chair, but she never did. That became her home when we weren't home. When we were home and could keep an eye on her, we'd have her hang out with us. A few times I felt guilty that she was confined, so I'd leave the x-pen door open, but she wouldn't leave the area. She actually liked her home. It was a nice compromise for everyone.

She did pass away a few years ago. I have to say that as much of a pain as she could be at times, I am so glad I didn't have her PTS. I would have felt guilty forever.

I know that this isn't the right solution for everyone. I just wanted to share our story.

[mommydearest]

You also have to think about your baby, as hard as it is. I can't imagine having a baby crawling around where the cat has thrown up multiple times. My kitty was a puker, and it turned out he had thyroid issues. He had a terrible quality of life, plus, his throat and mouth got icky from all the acid. It sounds like your husband is in denial about how stressful a newborn can be without the extra hassle of throw-up everywhere. That might be an angle you could try.

[Ericka]

I hope you and hubby can finally come to a conclusion of what to do. It's not going to be healthy for the baby to be in a house where the cat pukes on so much stuff, you will need to clean your carpets and items constantly to kill the bacteria, especially when little one starts crawling. You don't need the baby getting sick from the cat.

My best friend had 2 cats for at least 10 yrs if not a little longer. My friend had her son in July (years ago this happened) and her cats did nothing but spray around the house constantly, she kept them for 3 months or more and finally couldn't take it anymore. She was losing her love for them because of the mess they were causing, her lack of time to be cleaning up after them so for her she gave them to her parents and put them out in their backyard. They did fine out there, she didn't want to put them down, but couldn't keep them anymore.

I love cats and dogs as much as the next person, but when they start getting worse in health, sometimes the best is to put them down or to have someone else care for them that has the patience and time to clean up after them, which apparently you won't have come November. If they really can't figure out what is wrong without extensive tests and such, your hubby really has to think of the future for not just the cat but your family with a new baby.

[FoxyBlue]

I personally do not believe there is some moral problem with humanely (as possible) putting down an animal.

I had to make this choice for my cat several years ago.

She was 9 years old, so she'd spent several wonderful years with my family. I loved her very much.

She was having litter box problems. I chose not to spend money testing and attempting to treat her. She was already nine, and I did not believe her quality of life outweighed the problems required to keep her alive.

I first considered another home or a rescue. She did not seem to have chronic pain problems, she just kept peeing on the carpet. However, I had noticed that in general she seemed more cranky, slept more, and just didn't have that 'spark' she used to have.

Because she was poorly socialized as a kitten, she does not adjust well to new surroundings. I decided a new home was not the answer.

My sister and husband and I took her to the vet. I got to be with her as she passed. I am confident that I made the right decision for me and my cat. I cherish her memory and the one set of pictures she actually posed for to this day :)

[pocket]

Did you pressure DH into this? You said you fought about it a lot and finally he agreed to let you do it. If it were my DH I would never live it down. 30 years from now it would still come up. For me, i would rather put up with cleaning up puke for a few more years (2? 5?) than have that between us. Perhaps your DH is more forgiving or perhaps he is more on board with the idea than you said. It really shouldn't come from you. It should be his decision. Otherwise you are the bitch who killed his cat for the rest of your life.

[batgirl]

Wow, you guys have definitely given me lots to think about. Thank you all for your input.

We went to the vet last night and didn't get any new answers. We heard the same "vomiting can be caused by lots of things", and such which we, of course, already knew. She did say that putting up with a constant puker is difficult, and that the vet would support whatever decision we made. She did suggest a few things, which we are going to try, but frankly, I don't think will work. She couldn't find in his vet records whether he was tested for stomach worms, so he began a course of an antiparasitic last night. She also suggested an overgrowth of bacteria, so a next step could be an antibiotic, more blood work, or we could biopsy his intestine (which is obviously very invasive...) He's also lost almost 3lbs since January! (he's still almost 13lbs) So perhaps the puking is affecting his health (he's now on Pepcid AC).

Since we've done all of the above (except the biopsy) I just don't think any of it will work (and neither does DH). But if it makes DH believe that we tried everything... well, I guess I am still thinking we should put him down. But as pocket just mentioned, I don't want to be "the bitch that killed his cat." This is something I've really struggled with. I strongly believe that this should be DH's decision, but damn it, he's got to do something! He can't just say, "you have to live with it" or the more recent "whatever you want..." This one drives me crazy. Its not just what I want. I hate that he's put this burden on my shoulders...

And I keep thinking about the baby. We will be keeping the nursery closed, but DH already forgot to close the door once and he puked on the new curtains. And our carpet has been puked on everywhere. I want to steam clean it before the baby, but DH says, "he'll just puke on it again..." We will be moving again before the baby will crawl, but he'll just puke everywhere at the new place, too. We were going to move to a bigger apartment before the baby was born, but the carpets were "too new" and we knew that we couldn't move there.

I'm getting to the point where I think "screw the cat's quality of life, what about ours..." God, I am an evil bitch... Its going to get worse before it gets better.


It's not going to be healthy for the baby to be in a house where the cat pukes on so much stuff, you will need to clean your carpets and items constantly to kill the bacteria, especially when little one starts crawling. You don't need the baby getting sick from the cat.

Can a baby get sick from cat vomit? I know its gross, but can they really get sick?

Jeez, I am really going to need a therapist after this... or a marriage counselor.

[MLA]

Batgirl, you really need to consider giving this cat to a no-kill shelter. I can't imagine putting a cat down when there was actually another option. I know this is going to sound harsh (and it probably is), but if you put this cat down instead of giving it away, I will actually lose some respect for you. I'd hate that because I actually have a LOT of respect for you. I think you and your DH are too involved in the situation to see things clearly. If there's an option for giving this cat to a shelter, and you don't take it, well, that's just wrong.

[greenbunny]

But if it makes DH believe that we tried everything... well, I guess I am still thinking we should put him down. But as pocket just mentioned, I don't want to be "the bitch that killed his cat." This is something I've really struggled with. I strongly believe that this should be DH's decision, but damn it, he's got to do something! He can't just say, "you have to live with it" or the more recent "whatever you want..." This one drives me crazy. Its not just what I want. I hate that he's put this burden on my shoulders...

Pocket makes a great point. This definitely should be his decision, but it seems from what you've said that he's unable or unwilling to decide. Is it possible that he thinks you making the choice will make it easier for him to live with?

What about a trial period with rehoming? If you can work with a no-kill place, maybe you can write up an agreement to take him back if they can't work things out for him. Or, maybe you could permanently sponsor him through the rescue, so that you know he will always be cared for even if they lack for funding.

[pocket]

I don't know your DH, but actually I think he has decided. He doesn't want to put the cat down. You are the one who wants to put the cat down and you want him to want it too.

I understand what a burden this is. Our last dog Pua had congenital kidney disease and from the age of 18 mos was incontinent and then as the disease progressed she would throw up a few times a day. Our house was a mess and our wood floors were stained with dog urine and it was very hard. But she died eventually and as hard as it was I know we did right by her. We didn't keep her around too long and we didn't put her down too fast. We jointly made the decision to euthanise her when she was about 3. It isn't alwasy convenient to have a sick pet. But most pets eventually get sick especially when they get older, and we have responsibilities to the animals that we have chosen. This cat is 12 and has a serious problem with it's intestines. It's lost 3 lbs in the past 6 mos. How much longer could it realistically live? It's not cruel to restrict the cat to an area that is easy to clean.

Also - I don't think there are any diseases that can pass from cat to person.

I am very surprised that you are only starting pepsid now. That worked really well for Pua's irritated intestines. I assume kidney disease has already been eliminated?

[keska]

You can get one of those net covers for the crib so that the cat can't get in the crib and get sick in there if that particularly concerns you.

[kam]

Honestly, I'm very surprised that some of the treatments you're mentioning haven't been tried before. And if my husband insisted that our cat Sommer be put down because of her vomitting issues, I'm with pocket, I would never forgive him. I may verbally, but deep down I wouldn't forgive him.

There are a ton of reasons and possible solutions, including but not limited to:

1) putting small stones in the food to slow down the cat eating the food (if vomitting is due to ingesting too quickly)
2) changing foods
3) giving the cat hairball remedy on a daily basis
4) x-ray of the belly to make sure there's not a blockage
5) testing for worms and dewormer
6) liquid immodium
7) feliway plug ins

I say feliway because I'd say stress may have to do with some of the cat's problems. It sounds like the pregnancy and fighting are actually adding to the issue.

While it sounds like your husband wants to keep the cat, he has to be active in trying to be solution-oriented. "He'll just puke on it so don't steam clean it" doesn't cut it. It also seems you both aren't communicating appropriately for the situation - "whatever you want" isn't communication. This issue then will not just go away with the cat. If you disagree about child rearing, for example, it can't be solved with "whatever you want" without some consequences to the marriage.

That said, I do have strong feelings about people who discard of their pet because of an impending baby. You put up with it for x years and now you're ready to give up - why? Trust me - the cat can sense the stress and it's not helping matters any.

[BethIrish]

I'll second the net covers for the crib...we've already scoped that out because one of our cats likes to lay on top of us (as close to our faces as possible!). I'm afraid he'd lay on the baby!

I just want to second whoever said it - it really would be cruel to put this cat down with out trying to get a rescue to take him. I know it's hard to get the no-kill shelters/rescues to take cats around here - if you have on that is willing to take him you should absolutely take advantage of that. To me, it sounds as though you've given up on this cat. I realize everyone has a breaking point - but honestly...please, please, please don't kill this cat when you have other options.

[lawyerlee]

I wanted to share this link to a search engine for holistic vets (from the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association), which allows you to locate a holistic vet in your area. I just came across is today, so maybe it was meant to be or something. :)

Welcome To The AHVMA Member Referral Search (http://www.holisticvetlist.com/)

[KaliLily]

Batgirl - I wanted to give you a tip for dealing with the vomit while you are in a "holding" pattern. A few months ago, one of my cats vomited on my bedroom carpet and the only pet mess cleaner I had was Urine Gone. The bottle didn't specify vomit as one of the "messes" it cleans, but I figured I might as well try since it was all I had - it worked! I have light cream carpets and it just ate the stain away. All I had to do was saturate the stain, leave it alone until it dried and then wipe up the excess cleaner with a damp cloth. I was really impressed. You might even want to try it on the screens.

I really feel for your and your DH in this situation. It is very tough. I personally believe quality of life should be considered for animals. As hard as it is, I feel it is more humane to put down a sick animal than to let it suffer. I've had 3 pets put down since I was 16 (I'm 33) - 2 dogs and a rabbit. We got our first dog (Tasha) when I was an infant and she was a puppy - we literally grew up together. When I was 16, Tasha began to have a lot of health problems, she was incontinent, had tumors you could feel as you pet her and had very weak legs. She often fell and couldn't stand back up and we had to carry her inside and outside. My parents talked for months about putting her down, but I fought it tooth and nail. To me, she was still my little puppy. Then one afternoon when I got home from school I heard Tasha crying inside. I stopped for a split second thinking an intruder might be in the house, but hearing Tasha crying made me bolt into the house anyway. There was no intruder. Tasha had pooped and peed all over the laundry room, fallen in it and couldn't get back up. I have no idea how long she was like that. I picked her up (looking back it was disgusting, but I couldn't have cared less about the mess) and took her outside while I cleaned up the laundry room. Then I brought her back in and gave her a nice warm bath. By the time my mom got home from work I was crying and told her I finally understood that Tasha was old, sick and suffering. I agreed they could put her to sleep.

Saying goodbye to her was very hard. I still miss her and think of her often. But I know we made the right decision for her. She had a very good life but the quality had deminished. I can't believe she would have wanted to continue like she was.

Another thing to think about is the arrival of your baby. With our second dog (Brandy), she was also getting very old/sickly when the time came for my dad to undergo major surgery. Brandy had trouble seeing and also had gotten very weak in her legs. While she probably would have held on a little while longer, my dad's doctor strongly recommended that if she was going to need to be put to sleep soon they needed to do it at least 2 months before his surgery. I was a little conflicted with my parents putting Brandy to sleep because of the upcoming surgery, but I realized her health was quickly deteriorating and losing the dog too close to his surgery would put my dad at risk - he and Brandy were best buddies.

I'm not saying you should put your cat to sleep now, but if its health is failing it might be the right thing to do. You don't need any more stress on you than what comes with giving birth.

And if the cat's health isn't that bad yet, then I agree with PPs that containing it while you and your DH aren't home is a good option. Tasha was kept in the laundry room (with a baby gate, the door was left open) at night and when no one was home. It didn't "hurt" her. And with our first cat, we kept her in the laundry room (door closed) while we slept and were at work to protect her until she was old enough to roam the house. Your cat will not be traumatized by spending its days & nights in the bathroom. Just make it comfortable and the cat will be fine.

[Ericka]

I would recommend a shelter as well, but let hubby finally decide on it. If you have to have him clean he puke often after the baby comes along, so be it, he will see that it will be difficult to keep up with the constant cleaning, if it's that bad.

I know cats can live with babies and have no problem with that. My friend has 2 kids and a cat, I know she would like to find her a new home because she doesn't have the time like she use to for the cat and wants her to have all the attention she deserves.

In this case the baby is not a cause for OP wanting to do something with th cat, it's the cat puking everywhere. I personally wouldn't like to have a cat or any pet for that matter that pukes all over the place, especially with a new baby. Babies get into things once they are mobile. I wouldn't want my baby crawling around on the floor that my cat puked up on several times. There could be a spot you miss and the baby finds it, not a pretty sight.

I love animals, had 4 dogs growing up, unfortunately slowly they all had to be put down for health issues. We didn't want them to suffer, we had them all about 16 yrs and they always had the best of life. My mom put up with poop and puke for as long as she could, until the dog finally showed that they had enough of it all. Broke our hearts but we know they loved us, just as we loved them. A shelter wouldn't take them, and my mom didn't want that anyway, just to prolong a life that was not of a good quality anymore. We knew when it was there time, they let us know in their own way.

Best of luck in your decision.

[KaliLily]

I'm getting to the point where I think "screw the cat's quality of life, what about ours..." God, I am an evil bitch... Its going to get worse before it gets better.


You're not an evil bitch. You are understandably stressed and overwhelmed.

[pocket]

Batgirl, you did ask for real opinions so here you go:

A shelter is just passing the responsibility on to someone else. The more I think about this the more it really chaps my hide. This cat's life is your DH's responsibility. He chose this cat. He decided to get a cat in the first place. He made an implicit promise to this animal 12 years ago to love and protect him or her. When this cat was young and healthy and cute he could have had the chance to end up with an owner who would have cared for him in his old age. Now he is 12 and who will want him now? The cat is just a cat, but your DH is a man and a responsible man should keep his commitments even when they become inconvenient. This is just a shitty thing to do to a creature with no other options who you have promised to love and protect.

[carrie9142]

Some thoughts in no particular order:

Clearly, this issue is causing you and your husband distress and is affecting the quality of your life and marriage. It sounds to me like you have given your DH a number of suggestions (shelter, confining, etc) and he doesn't want to do any of them (which is understandable). I realize that your DH doesn't want to confine the cat, but I certainly has to be more appealing than putting him down. I can't believe he would rather do that than have him live in the bathroom.

I think other suggestions of having an area of the apartment for him would be a good idea as well.

Another thought-when we were housetraining the dog we made notes of when he ate and when he eliminated so that we could get an idea of about how fast it would travel through his system. I know you aren't home all day, but if you fed the cat at specific times you might be able to judge how fast food goes through him and could only keep him in the bathroom when it was "dangerous". I don't know how well that would work for cats, but it might be worth a shot. Within a few weeks we could tell about how long it took, roughly.

Good luck. Our cat is mean, scared of people, anxious, and has lick nervosa such that he is missing chunks of fur-but he is still our cat and we love him. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes having to make that call. And I also wouldn't want to be the one who "made him kill his cat".

[tgr68]

I'd hate to see you put this animal down. It sounds like your DH wants the cat and is putting down all solutions that you have presented, so I would start handing him the broom/mop/vacuum/etc. when he gets home to clean up the mess. Like pocket said, your DH took this cat in and it is ultimately his responsibility.

That being said, if he refuses to clean up after the cat, I think a no-kill shelter is your best solution.

[lorbo]

Can a baby get sick from cat vomit? I know its gross, but can they really get sick?

unlikely!

my own child has eaten cat poop twice...yes, i know gross...we were in an apartment and she was at the crawling at warp speed stage...she didn't swallow it per se...but she was munching on it...i wouldn't have been so grossed out if it had been regurgitated food.

that said...my own cat pukes a lot...i do get pissed off at him when i wake up to 4 or 5 piles around the dining room or living room. would i get rid of him, NO!

i have two children and he loves them. he certainly doesn't get the attention he used to...but i know he's loved by all of us...even DD and DS.

i can't give any advice on your decision...just what i go thru...DH has a cat that he's been begging me to find a home for...and i just can't do that...because i know he'd end up in a shelter and probably would end up euthanized...he's a lovable cat...he's just evil in peeing/pooping where he shouldn't...usually DH's clothes-yes, i know he could pick them up but that would be too easy:rolleyes: and we have carpets that are only a year old and we're not willing to put them at risk of his behaviors...so he's confined to our basement area...he's not thrilled...but he has a home where he's fed, watered, he's got a companion-who chooses to live in the basement-she's just an odd cat, and he's got run of two rooms...so it's not a horrible life for him and he's not being bounced around homes. i've fought DH tooth and nail about getting rid of this cat and he knows if by some chance, this cat disappeared on a night i was working...he'd never hear the end of it from me...and it's his cat.

you've got some tough decisions...and i wish all of you well!

[batgirl]

Wow, this thread was busy yesturday! Thanks for all of your input. Like I had said before, I did not want to make a rush decision about this and welcome eveyone's comments.

I'll try to comment on a few things:


I am very surprised that you are only starting pepsid now. That worked really well for Pua's irritated intestines. I assume kidney disease has already been eliminated?
None of the vets had ever mentioned pepcid before. Guess that's another reason why multiple vet opinions are always worth it. And yup, he's had complete blood workups which ruled out kidney and thyroid disease.


There are a ton of reasons and possible solutions, including but not limited to:

1) putting small stones in the food to slow down the cat eating the food (if vomitting is due to ingesting too quickly)
2) changing foods
3) giving the cat hairball remedy on a daily basis
4) x-ray of the belly to make sure there's not a blockage
5) testing for worms and dewormer
6) liquid immodium
7) feliway plug ins

We've tried all of these except 6 (which he is now on pepcid) and 7. But I really doubt its stress about baby and fighting, since he has had this issue before DH and I had ever even knew each other.


That said, I do have strong feelings about people who discard of their pet because of an impending baby. You put up with it for x years and now you're ready to give up - why? Trust me - the cat can sense the stress and it's not helping matters any.
This is NOT the case! I don't want people to think this. I do think the impending baby is making me more stressed out (wanting things to be clean, less stressful, etc., and I have mentioned that this was a concern...not wanting to put him down because of hormones that will be gone in two months). Your right, though, I'm sure he senses stress in the household. But so far his puking has been pretty constant (no better or worse)


The cat is just a cat, but your DH is a man and a responsible man should keep his commitments even when they become inconvenient. This is just a shitty thing to do to a creature with no other options who you have promised to love and protect.
Pocket I didn't quote your whole post, but I am a little confused by it... DH wants to keep him. He takes very good care of him. And I do make him clean up most of the puke stains. He just refuses to give him to a shelter. Is this what your referring to? I agreed with you before... I do believe that I am forcing the issue. I think DH is perfectly fine with the way things are...


In this case the baby is not a cause for OP wanting to do something with th cat, it's the cat puking everywhere.
Thanks ericka. Although, I am sure the stress of everything is getting to me more now...

A little bit of good news! He did not vomit yesturday at all! The vet said to wait 7 days to see how he does (on the pepcid and the dewormer). We will keep our fingers crossed. Honestly, if his vomiting returns full force this afternoon, I doubt we will do anything... I really don't think we could honestly go thru with euthanasia (well, I probably could, but as several of you pointed out, I can't do it without DHs and the vet's full support, and we just aren't there yet...) and DH has so far refused any shelter. We'll probably just continue as are... I guess as far as the fighting between DH and I, well, I'll just have to ease up a bit (but make him clean up all the puke stains!). Unfortunately, there are really no good solutions. That's why this is so frustrating...

Thanks everyone.

oh, and we will definitely be getting that crib netting!

[vwinkel]

You have gotten plenty of opinions, but after reading through, I have to post mine even though it is against the grain. If it were me, I would put the cat down, no question, if the pepsid doesn't work. I love cats and have my whole life. DH even calls me the 'crazy cat lady'. However, you have given this cat love, years of life, and you have certainly tried every option that the vet and these boards has suggested.

Even though your cat may not act sick, that doesn't mean it does not feel sick. They cannot talk to us, but we can only read their actions. The cat is clearly stating (as is the vet) that something is wrong each and every day. The quality of life is certainly the main point here.

I do not agree with the no kill or special needs shelter as a better alternative. The cat is sick and this option is not helping the cat but prolonging the problem and possible agony of the cat. I also do not agree that the next family the cat is placed in would be a better alternative either. How does anyone know that the unknown would be better and not worse?

If it were me, I would stop cleaning up ANY vomit stains. I would cover them and leave them for DH. This is his choice so I would give him the responsibility.

My DH had a family dog that when we got back together, I barely recognized because she was so overweight. The poor thing had arthritis so bad she could barely get up and would use the house as her bathroom every day. It was heartbreaking to see her suffer. DH refused to put her down and said she was fine. After months of this, I couldn't take it. He couldn't go to the vet because it was too hard and I finally convinced him it was time. We had a mobile vet come out to the house where he said good-bye and I brought her outside to the vet while it happened. I was terrified that he would resent me for it, but I knew we had tried every medicine and everything we could. Sometimes, it is just time. It is not an easy choice, but we as pet owners need to do what is best for our pets.

[greenbunny]

If you haven't already sought ideas in any LJ communities, I'd recommend posting your cat's history at SPO Prevention (http://community.livejournal.com/spo_prevention/) and asking for ideas for diagnoses. The community has many experts on pet care (and you have to prove your creds to be listed in the community info as an expert, so it isn't a bunch of teenagers who just think cats are cute) and many veterinarians, vet techs, and other people with actual pet health experience. I consider it invaluable.

[dionysia]

My boy cat, Pixie, is a puker.

His problem is overeating, so we've done the pumpkin mixing, rationing, and spreading out his food in one layer so he chews.

He probably pukes once or twice every few weeks, more so when he's shedding (like now), since he pukes up hair as well.

I clean up after him, puke and poop, much like I am going to clean up after my son when he's born in September. I have no intention of getting rid of Stinky (that's his nickname).

Di

[pocket]

Pocket I didn't quote your whole post, but I am a little confused by it... DH wants to keep him. He takes very good care of him. And I do make him clean up most of the puke stains. He just refuses to give him to a shelter. Is this what your referring to? I agreed with you before... I do believe that I am forcing the issue. I think DH is perfectly fine with the way things are...

DH told you that you could put the cat down. You said that he agreed - that you could do "whatever you want". That it was your decision to make. He needs to fulfill his responsibilities to this animal that he adopted. It’s a commitment to the entire life of the cat, including the old, stinky, grouchy part of his life.


Dh (after many many arguments) said that I can put him down, but that DH can't be there (too hard). I worry that DH will change his mind after I do it, I worry that this will make me a horrible person for putting down an "inconvenient pet", I worry that the stress of wanting things perfect for the baby are influencing my decision, I worry that this will make me evil...

[bird_feet]

I'm also of the thought that once you adopt a pet it's for life. You've made a commitment, in this case your husband, to care for the animal for better or worse so to speak. I work with an animal rescue and there are so many cases of pets becoming unwanted for reasons of inconvience of owners than actual problems.

I hope that you and your husband are able to work out an alternative for the cat as far as confinded living quarters when you're not home and continueing to seek other treatment options.

And if you must give up the cat I hope that you'll go the no-kill shelter/rescue route.

[kam]

There seems to be some inconsistencies here.


This is NOT the case! I don't want people to think this. I do think the impending baby is making me more stressed out (wanting things to be clean, less stressful, etc., and I have mentioned that this was a concern...not wanting to put him down because of hormones that will be gone in two months). Your right, though, I'm sure he senses stress in the household. But so far his puking has been pretty constant (no better or worse)

Sorry, but I took this literally:


The cat seems to have gotten worse of the last year and is currently throwing up 2-4 times per day.


And I keep thinking about the baby. We will be keeping the nursery closed, but DH already forgot to close the door once and he puked on the new curtains. And our carpet has been puked on everywhere. I want to steam clean it before the baby, but DH says, "he'll just puke on it again..." We will be moving again before the baby will crawl, but he'll just puke everywhere at the new place, too. We were going to move to a bigger apartment before the baby was born, but the carpets were "too new" and we knew that we couldn't move there.

It seems that the baby is a factor. If the baby isn't a factor, I still wonder to myself "Why now?". And it doesn't seem like it's consistent year by year.


We've tried all of these except 6 (which he is now on pepcid) and 7. But I really doubt its stress about baby and fighting, since he has had this issue before DH and I had ever even knew each other.

Again, while the cat may have always had the problem (as our cat has), I'm not putting words into your mouth here. You said in the past year it's gotten worse. Then before that you said four years ago it got worse. But then you say it's pretty constant. My cat pukes maybe once a week, but when it was 2-3 times a day I wouldn't consider that time to be consistent with her puking once a week (we finally linked the worsening to environmental stress due to moving). I'd say it was worse during these times. Kitty might simply sense the pregnancy - that's all I'm saying.


And I do make him clean up most of the puke stains.

Not pocket, but perhaps she believed you when you said this:


I want to steam clean it before the baby, but DH says, "he'll just puke on it again..."

[cosmic]

batgirl, i can sympathize. we're in a cat-drama situation at my house and we're running out of time, too. (i'm eight months preggo.) don't let anyone make you feel guilty about whatever you decide, especially not someone who isn't in your situation.
the fact is, taking care of a baby is a HUGE responsibility. getting used to taking care of a new baby, recovering from childbirth, dealing with post-partum issues, coping with stress, AND playing nursemaid to a puking cat-- well it just sounds like way too much for one person to deal with. so there's that, and the fact that there's absolutely no shame in wanting a clean, safe environment for your child.
i wouldn't put the cat down. but i would definitely look into getting the cat into pet foster care, a rescue community, or other arrangements. The SPCA in your area probably has solutions we haven't even mentioned here. Hang in there!

[bird_feet]

the fact is, taking care of a baby is a HUGE responsibility.

While this is true, taking care of a pet is a huge responsibility as well. If a child had some sickness that resulted in puking every day putting the child to sleep or giving him or her away would be frowned upon.

I frown upon putting pets down because they become an inconvience. If giving up a pet is something that can't be avoided due to people (in general, not pointing fingers at the OP) not either realizing the responsibility of owning a pet or because they become too much of a burden they shouldn't have had a pet in the first place.

In the case of the OP she didn't adopt the pet but because the cat was part of her husband's life before her I think she should respect that he's not willing to give the cat up. He took on responsiblity and seems to want to follow through with it through the good and the bad.

[lorbo]

Pets are not disposable...regardless of a new baby coming in to the family...bowing out of this thread...

Just my own personal opinion and not directed at anybody.

[PinkMartini]

Pets are not disposable...regardless of a new baby coming in to the family...bowing out of this thread...

Just my own personal opinion and not directed at anybody.

Exactly! And anyone who thinks so doesn't deserve a pet

[BusyBee]

I strongly believe that this should be DH's decision, but damn it, he's got to do something! He can't just say, "you have to live with it" or the more recent "whatever you want..." This one drives me crazy. Its not just what I want. I hate that he's put this burden on my shoulders...
I also think you DH is being very unfair about this (I understand he's very frustrated too). He says it's your decision, but he takes away all the options (no-kill shelter, confining him, etc). What you want is to confine the vomit, etc., not discard the cat. It's like telling a jury that a guilty vertict requires execution, but not-guilty will set a killer free, with no in-between. Who could do it easily?


And I keep thinking about the baby. We will be keeping the nursery closed, but DH already forgot to close the door once and he puked on the new curtains. And our carpet has been puked on everywhere. I want to steam clean it before the baby, but DH says, "he'll just puke on it again..." We will be moving again before the baby will crawl, but he'll just puke everywhere at the new place, too. We were going to move to a bigger apartment before the baby was born, but the carpets were "too new" and we knew that we couldn't move there.
I think you should go ahead get the carpets cleaned, now and as often as necessary, curtains too. If you have to "live with it", this is how. This is the price of his indecision (nixing another one of your options).

(I have read that if you have too much clutter, you should put it into storage - the monthly bill will show you exactly how much it's costing you to keep that stuff, and help you re-evalute the situation.)

Besides the crib net, you can also put a sceen door on the nursery so you can see in without letting kitty in. There's also the aluminum-foil-in-the-crib to make it an unattractive place to sit.

I'm sorry about this situation - Good luck to both of you!

[cosmic]

Emotional responses aside :rolleyes: ....
is it truly better for the cat to be in a very confined area of the OP's home INSTEAD of in a new home with lots of room to run and play and be a normal kitty? I think some of the more judgemental opinions aren't taking into account what kind of environment is best for the cat. All they know is that they want the OP to just suck it up. Why even dip into this thread when she's already said she's at her wit's end and you're not even sympathetic?

[Fireside Girl]

Because it is immoral to put an animal down, not because it has a terminal illness, but because it has a problem that is inconvenient for you.

[cosmic]

I don't think you're talking to me because I expressly said I wouldn't put the cat down. (I wouldn't even consider it.) But I want to be clear that what I did say was that she should contact the SPCA in her area because they have lots of solutions (foster pet care, temporary pet care, no kill boarding, rescue societies, medical care assistance) that might not be obvious to someone while they're going through this kind of situation. That was my suggestion, because from what I've seen there's lots of help out there.

[bird_feet]

I think a lack of emotion to pets in general is a big reason so many cats and dogs are without homes or in bad home situations in the first place.

In the situation of the OP I get that she's "had it" and is looking for solutions. She also hasn't said that putting down the cat is her only option. I think it's good that she's looking at alternatives and seeing what she can do without making a rash decsion.

This doesn't change my mind in thinking that any time a person adopts an animal that it's a commitment and something that should be thought about and researched prior to bringing an animal home.

[pocket]

Emotional responses aside :rolleyes: ....
is it truly better for the cat to be in a very confined area of the OP's home INSTEAD of in a new home with lots of room to run and play and be a normal kitty? I think some of the more judgemental opinions aren't taking into account what kind of environment is best for the cat. All they know is that they want the OP to just suck it up. Why even dip into this thread when she's already said she's at her wit's end and you're not even sympathetic?

This cat is 12. He's an old guy with a health problem. He's lost 3 lbs in the last 6 mos. He isn't going to live a lot longer. His chances of finding a loving home are very slim, and while he may be cared for in a rescue, he will face higher stress levels simply from the fact that there will be crowding, and he won't be loved there. Do you have any idea how hard it is to place an old sick cat in the middle of kitten season?

When you get a pet you commit through family changes, health conditions and the knowledge that this animal will eventually get old, get sick and die. You will have to play nurse to a sick animal. This is part of having a pet. It's wrong to just decide that part of it is too much trouble for you.

There are right and wrong ways to behave towards living creatures whose lives we have voluntarily taken responsibility for. Having a new baby doesn't void other responsibilities you have already taken on - even something so small as the life of one old sick cat. And if you think you are exempt - well, lots and lots of other people do the right thing by their pets every single day. Don't you want to be the sort of person who does the right thing even if it's a hard thing?

[kam]

I don't think you're talking to me because I expressly said I wouldn't put the cat down.

Look at the title of the thread. You're offering a scenerio which I don't think is the main problem most people are having (although some are).

[cosmic]

pocket, you're preaching to the choir.
i have two cats. one younger, one older-- with various ailments and behavioral issues. i take excellent care of them both. i'm already doing what's "inconvenient", difficult, and at times frustrating. but i think it's ok to sympathize with a human who might not have found the right solution for her situation. what's so bad about contacting experts and finding out what options might exist??? afterall, that was all I ever suggested.

anyway, it took a few pages but it looks like we're finally seeing some of the kinds of responses that make people hesitant to post about their problems in this section.

[cosmic]

Look at the title of the thread. You're offering a scenerio which I don't think is the main problem most people are having (although some are).

Look at the post I quoted. I was responding to the poster who said this:

Because it is immoral to put an animal down, not because it has a terminal illness, but because it has a problem that is inconvenient for you.

[lorbo]

i so didn't want to post again...but felt i had to...i am a veterinary technician...working in both general practice and emergency/critical care settings. i've seen people bring in their animals to be put to sleep for a myriad of problems...some so silly...my general practice boss refused to put an animal to sleep for something silly. Inappropriate urination/defecation scenarios weren't even considered...being that there was obviously a behavioral problem not being addressed. in emergency practice, we just see mostly sick or injured animals that need to be euthanized because the cost of fixing the problem far outweighs the cost of euthanesia...and that's sad. the cat is an older cat...far less likely to be adopted out being that it's not a cute little cuddly kitten and the vomiting can become an annoyance. now, i had to add...with both of my children...they've peed, pooped, vomited and spilled food and an assortment of liquids all over my floor...the carpet has to be cleaned and i realize(though DH is still in a state of denial) that carpets with young children get dirty...regardless of pets. i would try to work through the problem...see if the pepcid helps and if not...confine the cat for the remainder of his life...that could be a year, or five or six years. stepping out again...

[ejs]

anyway, it took a few pages but it looks like we're finally seeing some of the kinds of responses that make people hesitant to post about their problems in this section.
The majority of people who post on CC know that they are going to get the full gamut of responses. Some will be supportive, some will offer differing opinions. If people are looking for responses that will only agree with them, they know that CC isn't the place to be.

[TriSigmaNC]

Batgirl, you really need to consider giving this cat to a no-kill shelter. I can't imagine putting a cat down when there was actually another option. I know this is going to sound harsh (and it probably is), but if you put this cat down instead of giving it away, I will actually lose some respect for you. I'd hate that because I actually have a LOT of respect for you. I think you and your DH are too involved in the situation to see things clearly. If there's an option for giving this cat to a shelter, and you don't take it, well, that's just wrong.

I 100% agree with MLA here. There are a million other people out there that would be just happy as can be to put up with this kitty and take care of him. I have a constant puker (probably once every day or every other day) and I'd rather love her so much and constantly clean up after her than EVER consider putting her down. She's about 10-11 years old and that's young for cats, at least for indoor healthy one's. I don't consider her puking to be unhealthy. We just feed her sensitive stomach food and give her wet treats to help her puke sometimes. She's long haired and needs it. A little mess even daily is much better than putting her down. TRUST MLA and me, there are tons of other people out there that would take him.

[ejs]

I 100% agree with MLA here. There are a million other people out there that would be just happy as can be to put up with this kitty and take care of him. I have a constant puker (probably once every day or every other day) and I'd rather love her so much and constantly clean up after her than EVER consider putting her down. She's about 10-11 years old and that's young for cats, at least for indoor healthy one's. I don't consider her puking to be unhealthy. We just feed her sensitive stomach food and give her wet treats to help her puke sometimes. She's long haired and needs it. A little mess even daily is much better than putting her down. TRUST MLA and me, there are tons of other people out there that would take him.
But make sure that it actually is a no-kill shelter and only works with no-kill shelters. There are many shelters that promote themselves as no-kill, and they don't put animals to sleep there. BUT they will send their unadopted animals to shelters that will put them to sleep.

[rileyandfredsmom]

I realize a lot has been said about this problem but I just have to add my two cents....12 years old is not an old cat, upper middle age maybe but most of my cats have live to 18-20 years old so there is still a lot of life in the cat, don't justify euthanising him just because he's 'old'.

Pets are just like people, they have issues and sometimes the issues aren't convenient. I have 4 cats and 2 dogs and they all live inside...to say we have puke issues is an understatement. Thank goodness we have a lot of tile in our house. We have one cat that we adopted in Nov of 2004 and she urinates/defecates outside the litterbox....she has an aversion to litter evidently (she was 6 years old when we adopted her and evidently, long before she had been declawed and become 'sensitive' to the feel of litter on her paws), so probably 2 or 3 times a day, I clean cat pee off the floor in the utility room, the dogs take care of the poo for me. :rolleyes: DH and I have tried everything to no avail. Now, when I take the dogs out, I come in, pick her up and place her in the litterbox and she will go, she won't move while she's in there, just does her business and then waits to be lifted out.

We also have a cat that refuses to let me have anything on display in our home. Literally, there are no pictures on coffee tables, no clock on my nightstand. He knocks everything onto the floor. The cats have a special food bowl that he can't knock down and I make sure everything is put up at night before we go to sleep so he won't push it down and break the item or the tile.

We also have a cat that has Irratible Bowel Syndrome (Had no idea cats could have this until Simon came along). Therefore, none of the cats get treats any longer because his diet MUST remain consistent. He also throws up regularly because he is a pig and overeats all the time. He also came with a full blown case of ringworm (of course the lesions didn't show up until he was in the home, not at the rescue) which he promptly gave to all the other animals and humans in the house. Let me tell you, if you think treating 6 animals and 2 humans for ringworm is fun...it isn't. Let's just say there are staining dips involved, ointment applied to every lesion twice daily and for the 2 cats that didn't respond to that, a cycle of topical liqued treatment. All in all, the last boughts of ringworm didn't disappear for 3 months....talk about inconvient.

I've told you all that so you realize a little puking is nothing. Once that baby comes along you will have even more puking and pooping than you could imagine and the small amount you had from the cat will seem like wonderful, long gone memories.

And wanting a clean, sterile home for your child....get over that. Kids will eat puke, cat food, even poo (as one poster already mentioned) and guess what, they will be OK.

Sorry for the long post, I just wanted you to know there are worse things to deal with. When that baby is 16 and you find a plate of molded chips and sandwich stashed under the bed, you will laugh about worrying about a little cat puke on the carpet.

[LuckySam]

I appreciate that you've taken time to find out what's wrong and get second opinions as well as take steps to try and remedy the problem. I'm so sorry nothing has worked but please, don't put him down and don't give the kitty away. 12 years is a long time to bond with an animal and for an animal to bond with its owner. He's only 60 in cat years. I walk through Petsmart all the time and read the horrible excuses they have on the cages of all the animals up for adoption and feel sick. I wonder how someone can part with an animal at all and especially after so many years. It breaks my heart.

I read your post and I feel for you. I have a cat that pees on everything. My hubby took her to a new vet today (on a Sunday) to see if they can do something. She's ruined our carpet, our sofas, numerous articles of clothing, my purse, my wallet, pillows, belts and LOTS more. Pee is different than puke too because puke doesn't leave a nasty smell for life! Despite all my problems with this cat not once have I ever considered getting rid of her. Sure I want to scream when she ruins all these things but she's a part of my family. I rescued her from a shelter when someone discarded her and could never put her through the stress of it again. Your DH's cat will miss your hubby as well. As I said before, they have a relationship. You have to think of both sides.

My first cat ever lived to be 18 years old and I spent the last 4 years of her life giving her insulin shots twice daily for diabetes. She peed all around the litter box and not ever quite in it but I did all I could to save her and keep her happy. My 2nd cat developed cancer and kidney failure. I called a holisit vet in New York that wrote an amazing book (maybe it has something about puking in it - "The Art of Animal Healing by Martin Goldstein) and literally thousands of dollars at a million vets trying to help her. I drove 40 min. round trip every day - twice sometimes - after I got married to take care of her at my parent's house. I gave her sub Q fluids frequently and hand fed her baby food, raw meat and anything I could to keep her happy and alive. She puked. She peed. Through it all I never once thought about getting rid of her because it was a pain to clean up after her.

I don't mean to be rude or offensive so I apologize if it's coming across that way. A cat is a living creature! It gets one shot at life just like the rest of us putting it down over a tummy problem is a little extreme - in my opinion. I'd be floored if a vet would put a cat down over something like that. My sister in law has two cats that barf all the time and while it drives her insane she has never once thought about getting rid of them.

I know it's not your cat and not your choice to have it but you married a guy knowing this cat was part of his life. He and the cat have boneded and it doesn't sound like he wants to get rid of her.

I don't think locking it in a bathroom is a great idea but locking a cat in a cage all day is animal cruelty. He probably would be better off in a new home if that's the case.

You have a real problem and are asking advice. I am very passionate about animals and to hear this makes me so sad. My advice is to get a carpet cleaner called Spot Shot and be a wonderful wife (even though it will probably drive you crazy for a few more years) and just let the cat stay. Spot Shot is sold at Target, Wal-Mart, the grocery store, etc. and Sam's Club actually sells a 3 or 4 pack of it for really cheap. It is by far the best stain remover I've found. It gets cat vomit out when other cleaners haven't been able to. On bad stains we've had to do it two or three times but it gets it out. It's AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good luck with everything. I really hope you make the humane choice. It may be a sacrifice on your part but the kitty, your husband and your conscience will be better off.

[prudies]

There have already been a lot of posts, but I do want to say that having a cat with a new baby is no big deal. You can get a crib tent if you're worried, but I found my cat had no interest in the crib.

I'd be shocked if the pepcid didn't work. It sounds like reflux. If not, I really think the cat can be coaxed into puking on a litter box/newspaper area.

[batgirl]

Oh boy, It seems I created a monster... I was gone for the weekend, so I will try to catch up...

A few of the posts do bother me more than others.... I'll start here.


There seems to be some inconsistencies here.
Sorry, but I took this literally:
It was meant to be taken literally. He throws up 2-4X per day and has for, oh, probably a little over a year. That's why I said it was consistent and probably not stress from impending baby... Before that, he's thrown up on average once per day (sometimes more, sometimes less) for a couple of years. And he has gradually worsened over the last 4 or so years (but has always thrown up more than the typical cat, over the last 12 years, according to DH, since I've only been in the picture for the last 6). So I don't see the inconsistencies.

I obviously have not read everyone's comments yet (I promise I will, and will try to post responses). But I am started to get offended at the constant posts thinking I want to put the cat down soley for convience sake. He pukes 2-4 times per day! He throws up where ever he happens to be at the moment (bed, chair, window...) We have had numerous med opinions from numerous vets. We have tried lots of medicines and diets. We have been told by several vets (including the one last week) that no one would judge us if we decided to put the cat down (ha, that's a hoot!) at this point.

(Don't worry, he's still kicking (licking, sleeping, eating and of course puking...). We still don't know what we are going to do. But whatever the decision, it won't be one made in haste.)

And please, don't attack other people for telling me that I shouldn't feel guilty about wanting to put the pet down. Attack me if you must, but I asked for all opinions, and its nice to hear both sides. And asking if I would put down our new baby if it pukes a lot (I'm paraphrasing here) isn't really appropriate, is it?


Pets are not disposable...regardless of a new baby coming in to the family...
Where have I (or anyone on this thread) ever implied this? I take offense. If this were truly about convenience, he would have been gone years ago...

ETA:
Thanks to several of you that have kept your emotions out of it and offerend you opinions with stories. LuckySam we discovered SpotShock several years ago and your right, it is awesome!

[lorbo]

my comment about pets not being disposable was not directed at you...it was directed at the comments of your impending baby getting sick from eating vomit and crawling around on floors dirtied by vomit...it's also directed at the mentality of people who think well, i have a baby now and i don't have time for my cat/dog...i completely agree that my cats don't get enough one on one time from me...no, my cats don't have the run of the house...my cat in particular has the most freedom and he's the puker...the other two have very limited access-one due to her own weird nature and the other because he's known to piss/poop wherever he wants. unfortunately, pets get the short end of the stick and that sucks...i believe that all other options should be exhausted before euthanesia...i firmly believe there is a time to euthanize...i'm not of the mind that this is the situation...

wholeheartedly, i think confining the cat to a few choice rooms is a good choice. i wanted to add the average lifespan of a cat is about 14 years...yes, cats live to be 18-20...heck, i've known a 26 year old cat in general practice-and the owner could collaborate its age. i know there are people who will rescue a geriatric cat(and at the age of 12...your cat is geriatric...cats/dogs are considered geriatric after the age of 8), but those people are in the minority really...and i wanted to agree if you go through a no-kill shelter...you need to really make sure it's a no-kill shelter that will place the cat and not send it off to be euthanized.

i hope that clears up my comments...i don't like to make people feel bad, given the situation you're in...it's a tough one...

[linekelei]

I have not read everyone's replies, but our dog our has inflammatory bowel disease. It is a completely manageable disease. However, it requires medicine. Our dog takes a daily dose of budesonide, which is a steroid (kind of like prednisone, but with fewer side effects). At some point, we may be able to wean her off of it, as her dose has lessened considerably over the past year since she's been diagnosed. The steroid, however, stops the stomach inflammation and prevents the vomiting. I honestly cannot believe that the vet has only tried to control it with food-the food source can be important, and can be part of managing the disease, but the steroid is the most important thing in getting it under control. I also can't believe the cat is still alive-our dog almost died when she had her first serious attack from IBD. I'd see another vet-I understand your concern with a child on the way, but I don't really see the value of having your cat euthanized when the disease is manageable with a little medicine.

ETA-I just went back and saw that you mentioned that the cat has been on various medicines. Have you tried seeing an internist, or only a general veterinarian? It actually took an internal medicine vet to diagnose our dog with IBD and get it under control-our regular vet referred us and told us that we need a specialized doctor to manage the disease.

[batgirl]

Thanks for the clarification, Lorbo



wholeheartedly, i think confining the cat to a few choice rooms is a good choice.
Boy, I wish it were that simple. While DH finished his Ph.D. and until he finds a faculty position, we have only lived in apartments. Currently we have two bedrooms (ours and the new nursery), two bathrooms (not very big), a tiny laundry room and a closet. Hopefully we'll have a house (with a basement!) next year. But its not an option, now.

linekelei I'm very glad your dog is doing so well. I remember our vet telling us that "most" pets do very well with steroid therapy. The key word is "most", not "all".

As far as seeing a specialist... We were fortunate enough to live near one of the best veterinary teaching universities in the country. He was subjected to lots of tests by a variety of specialists. As I said before, the only test we refused was the intestinal biopsy. The main reason that we refused was because they told us it would only support the initial diagnosis (inflammatory bowel) and wouldn't change the therapy. Why subject him to such an invasive test if there is a good chance it will solve nothing...

[linekelei]

Is the vet absolutely sure that your cat has IBD? Our dog was diagnosed only after having an endoscopy-the other vets kept thinking it was something else entirely, and IBD was finally confirmed after the endo. I'm just wondering if maybe it it something else and an endo might reveal that. Of course, it's not cheap by any means. Our dog's diagnosis and ensuing medical bills cost us $5000!

You mentioned medicines-have any of them included steroids?

[batgirl]

Is the vet absolutely sure that your cat has IBD? Our dog was diagnosed only after having an endoscopy-the other vets kept thinking it was something else entirely, and IBD was finally confirmed after the endo. I'm just wondering if maybe it it something else and an endo might reveal that.
I think the diagnosis was made more by exclusion since they told us the biopsy was required to be 100%.


You mentioned medicines-have any of them included steroids?
Yeah, he's been on various doses of prednisone for the last 4 years or so. I'm going to mention the steriod your dog gets when we next call the vet (which will be this week). Thanks for the suggestion.

[linekelei]

I'd definitely ask for budesonide. It's a relatively new steroid and is considered a good one for animals b/c of the fewer side effects. Our vet also told us it was more effective for IBD than prednisone.

You might also ask for some anti-nausea medicine. When our dog's IBD flares up and she starts to feel nauseous (I can tell b/c her stomach gurgles and she licks her chops incessantly), we give her a liquid medicine 20 minutes before eating. It's stopped and/or prevented the vomiting every time. I don't remember the name, but it's an orange, sticky liquid that has to be refrigerated. It has been a life-saver for us on more than one occassion.

[mb1197]

So what have you decided to do?

[artist]

To be perfectly honest, I'm against it. And I'm the type who agrees with the concept of putting a pet out of it's misery if the pet is suffering. (I also feel that way about people.) However, if the cat is not terminally ill, I disagree with putting it to sleep. I also think it is irresponsible to get rid of a pet, but if taking your 12 year old cat back to the shelter to avoid putting it to sleep is the only choice, to me that's better than putting the cat to sleep.

I think if a person is unsure about what choice to make, the person should talk to the vet. The person should ask the vet, "What would YOU do if this was YOUR pet?" If the vet thinks the animal's quality of life is so poor that the humane thing to do is to put the animal to sleep, then that is the correct choice.

A friend of the family just had to put her beloved cat to sleep as the cat was having serious heart problems, could only have his life extended by mere weeks, and his quality of life would only get worse. This poor friend has been just a mess, said she was crying so hard her teeth hurt, could barely get out of bed, etc. So, I guess I just don't think putting a cat to sleep because the cat is being a nuissance is fair.

I know my comments might sound harsh, but in this case I happen to disagree. If you truely can't take care of your pet anymore and your vet does not think it's necessary to put the cat to sleep, at the very least give the cat to a no kill shelter. Or, come up with a solution as to how to keep and take care of the cat.

[jajacobsen]

Very late to this topic.

When I married Dh las May, he had two cats, one of whom was a daily puker. Multiple times per day. DH's household cleanliness was not great, and he dealt with it somewhat. Somewhat disgustingly, at times. I could not stand for this.

Since the cat's bowel movements seemed fine and I had them checked out to eliminate parasites as cause, I decided to experiement with foods. The vet did not think this would work, since some cats are "just pukers by nature." I thought, we'll see.

After several food choices, we settled on Purina One for Sensitive Systems. Immediate reduction in puking. Like from 2x per day to maybe once or twice per week (at first) and now once or twice per month. Yes, the occassional puke up still happens, sometimes in unfortunate places (like our bed). But, it is so much better than I expected.

The cats do NOT like this food as much as the old food, so think the puker cat does not eat it as quickly. I think it is less greasy and less upsetting to her system. They do still eat!

I am sure you have tried lots of things and probably are weary of suggestions, but please at least try a few different types of food. This is a $8 experiement for a week. If money is an issue, try Purina One for Sensitive Systems - it is available at Wal Mart! Other good choices are Hill's Science Diet and Iam's.

We have one cat that is a (somewhat reformed) puker and one cat that was a pee-er. That issue took longer and required ripping up carpet and tiling, and adding a second cat box in a guest bedroom. Do I like all of these solutions? No. But we made a commitment to these cats when we adopted them, and do not think of them as disposable simply because they are problemmatic. They are sweet and still enjoy their lives. I really, really urge you to continue to look for solutions.

[batgirl]

So what have you decided to do?
Haven't done anything. Still have him. Still puking...

Vet didn't have many other suggestions (except for the intestinal biopsy that I mentioned earlier). Guess we'll just see how it goes...

jajacobsen, although we've never tried Purina One, he has been on numerous prescription diets (we've tried just about every diet recommended to us over the years...), as well as other non-cat food diets (like pumpkin and cooked chicken).

After reading this thread I do feel good about the fact that we have tried almost everything suggested. Granted, none of it has worked, but at least we tried it.

So I guess there is no update. We probably will not do anything. At least not now.

[greenbunny]

batgirl, have you tried raw feeding? I won't lie, it is a lot of work. But in doing research on it, I noticed a lot of anecdotes from people who could never diagnose their pets' various issues, but found them getting better or even going away completely on raw feeding.

[batgirl]

batgirl, have you tried raw feeding? I won't lie, it is a lot of work. But in doing research on it, I noticed a lot of anecdotes from people who could never diagnose their pets' various issues, but found them getting better or even going away completely on raw feeding.

Isn't that what the chicken was? (not to sound too ignorant!). We boiled chicken breasts for him (and something else "meaty" too, but can't remember... it was several years ago) We tried it for a while. He loved it at first and the other cats were jealous, but then he refused to eat it. The vet said he got bored. Didn't matter, it didn't solve the problem...

[fuzzy]

As I understand raw feeding, it would not include *cooked* meat. It is generally called the BARF diet (Bones And Raw Food or Biologically Appropriate Raw Food). There are a lot of websites out there about raw feeding and the BARF diet -- I don't raw feed so I can't recommend one over the other, but again, as I understand it, cooked meat is not included in a traditional BARF diet.

[nooblet]

raw is raw, at least from what I've been told.

Anyhow, have you tried cream of wheat?

I don't know if a cat will eat it but I had a dog who was vomiting all the time and couldn't keep any food down.

I started giving her cream of wheat as a last resort because she would not eat the dog food given to me by my vet and as I was searching for anything to try and feed her the box of cream of wheat said "give to a collic baby, easy to digest"

It worked like a charm, then as she kept that down I slowly added the boiled chicken, broth, veggies, and so on till her diet was normal again.

[jesvet]

Chicken isn't a good choice for an IBD cat as the protein is often a cause of the problem. The nutritionists I speak with recommend a hypoallergenic/ novel protein diet; IVD duck, Hills z/d, etc. The other option is home cooking or raw foods.

There are commerical manufacturers of raw food- an example is www.omaspride.com.

IBD can be, as you know, very difficult to manage, but diet is definitely a big component.

ETA: Cream of wheat would not help a cat with IBD.

[greenbunny]

No, a raw diet not only includes meat that is not cooked, but also includes as much whole prey as possible. This mean that your cat (or dog) is eating not only muscle, but connective tissue, cartilage, etc. A big touted benefit of this is that it promotes dental health because it's a lot of work physically to eat (versus gulping down kibble).

You do need a lot of variety, but you can buy whole prey frozen online. This could include rabbits, squirrels, duck, and so on. If you want more info, check out this thread:

http://www.constantchatter.com/showthread.php?t=17759

[linekelei]

Ask your vet for metroclopramide. It's cheap and you give the animal a dosage 20 minutes before feeding. It will prevent the throwing up. That's what we give our IBD-diagnosed dog (finally got the name of the medicine) when her stomach is not happy and she throws up (like last night). It works every time.

[roadrunner]

I haven't read absolutely everything on here, but just wanted to respond.

Batgirl - If it were me, personally, I'd have the cat put down. Also, having exhausted all of my available treatment options, I would not feel guilty about it.

To me, it sounds like you have made up your mind, but are feeling hesitant because you feel guilty. I think that you probably posted online here hoping that someone would give you the reassurance that you are not a horrible person and that you ahve actually gone above and beyond what one can do for a pet that has a serious issue.

I just wanted you to have at least one person let you know that it is okay to remove the cat from you life - whether that is putting it in a shelter or putting it down.

FWIW - We had one of our dogs put down last January. She was not quite 5 years old. She had serious fear aggression issues, bad hips/knees, and was having seizures on a regular basis. Like you, we tried many different treatment options, but nothing was working. We did not go the rescue/ shelter route, simply because we did not want our/her problems passed on to another family. Ultimately, our child's safety was our main concern. Might be considered horrible to some, but when you have the life and health of a baby/child to consider, there really is nothing to consider at all - the human baby comes first.

It broke our hearts to put her down, but it was the right decision for us and our family. You should feel comfortable and confident in making this choice for you and your family. Sometimes, there is only so much you can do with an animal.

[cosmic]

Might be considered horrible to some, but when you have the life and health of a baby/child to consider, there really is nothing to consider at all - the human baby comes first.


This part I definitely agree with. I do wonder if the OP would have gotten some different responses if she had posted this question in the All Things Family section. Just speaking for myself-- a new baby changes your perspective on MANY things. But I've already gotten my share of flames for being sympathetic in this thread, so I'll jump out now. ;)

[prudies]

This part I definitely agree with. I do wonder if the OP would have gotten some different responses if she had posted this question in the All Things Family section. Just speaking for myself-- a new baby changes your perspective on MANY things. But I've already gotten my share of flames for being sympathetic in this thread, so I'll jump out now. ;)

I have a cat and a 2 year old, and I'm sympathetic to wanting to protect your child. However, there's been no indication that the cat poses any risk to the child. You are many months away from having a crawling child. Reevaluate then.

[greenbunny]

We had to get rid of the kid, the cat was allergic.

That's my favorite tee-shirt ever.

[prudies]

I might have to get that one, greenbunny. My cat has been with me since before DH. He's just starting to get used to our son, Elliott, btw, which is very sweet. But I swear he used to look at me like, what the hell, lady? First this guy, then the kid? What did I do to deserve this?

[BethIrish]

I might have to get that one, greenbunny. My cat has been with me since before DH. He's just starting to get used to our son, Elliott, btw, which is very sweet. But I swear he used to look at me like, what the hell, lady? First this guy, then the kid? What did I do to deserve this?

I think when my DC arrives in November, my cat will be giving me the same look!!!

[fuzzy]

Well, I think there's a big difference between dangers of fear-aggressive dog and cat vomit. I'm quite certain I rolled around in cat vomit once or twice when I was a kid and I've lived to tell about it. But a dog with severe fear-aggression could kill a child (of course, if I had a dog with aggression issues, I wouldn't TTC until said dog has passed...but that's me).

[lorbo]

a danger to people is a huge difference to a health problem with a cat...let me repeat...my own child managed to put cat poop in her mouth twice while in her fast as hell crawling stage...she's alive and fine...it was gross and i need the pukey smilie for for that. an aggressive animal is far dangerous than some cat vomit...i am not against euthanizing animals when circumstances dictate such intervention...my GMIL has a horrible horrible cat...she loves the cat...but if anything should happen to her....i'm certain that the cat will be euthanized...her cat will attack anything...DD was maybe 3 months old and laying on a blanket-no loud noises, just moving her arms and legs...the cat slunk over to her and tried to go in to attack mode...but i was there to stop her...she attempted this again when my son threw himself on the floor-she tried to pounce on him. i would worry if one of my in-laws attempted to give this cat to a shelter and this cat was placed with a family. my own cat threw up last night and i woke up to 2 more piles of vomit this morning...was i happy-big NO on that, it was easy enough to just clean it up and grumble about it.

[fuzzy]

a danger to people is a huge difference to a health problem with a cat

Well, I suppose one could argue that cat vomit is dangerous. After all, last night I got up to use the restroom, stepped in a pile of vomit, slipped and cracked the back of my head on the hardwoods. :p


(I have four cats, one has IBS and vomits at least once a day, usually more.)

[jajacobsen]

fuzzy and lorbo (and many others) I am so there with you. I have a puker and a peer as step-cats and although I do not like these issues -especially not with newly renovated house; DH and I (when l married him) made a commitment to these cats and we just DEAL with it. Is it REALLY aggravating? Yes.

Unfortunately, many many people few pets are "starter" children and when they move on to real children, if the pets become inconvenient, they become "disposable."

This is just my opinion. I am certain I do not speak for everyone.

[jajacobsen]

BethIrish - i feel certain my husbands two cats (my step cats) feel this way about me and our dogs. They were VERY bonded with DH and when we married a year ago and I moved in, they clearly resented me. But they soon came to tolerate me beause I was "trainable" to their ways and even began to be affectionate with me. FF to six months ago when we got two puppies. They clarly resent the pups and dominate them to this day (even though the dogs are now 80 lbs!). Sometimes I see the cats on their daddy's lap and I know they are thinking - see daddy, its so much better just the three of us here! Sell the dogs on ebay! Make her (me ) move out and just visit occassionally. Why can't we go back to the old, good times?

[roadrunner]

Promised myself that I would not do this and get involved, but ....

of course, if I had a dog with aggression issues, I wouldn't TTC until said dog has passed...but that's me

considering that our dog was 2 when we started TTC, and I was 28 years old. Hmmm, lets see, if the dog lived it's full life cycle that could be another 10-14 years, which puts me at 38-42 to start TTC.

Yeah, sounds perfectly reasonable to me :rolleyes: .

And this comment:

Unfortunately, many many people few pets are "starter" children and when they move on to real children, if the pets become inconvenient, they become "disposable."

is highly unfair. Your opinion - yes, but highly unfair. As much as pet owners want to believe that their pets are in fact 'children' they are not. They are not human. Sure, it's wonderful having pets. However, pets are nothing compared to human children. I have both, so I am certainly qualified to speak from experience.

Sorry, but the tone of this thread leaves a horrible taste in my mouth.

[roadrunner]

Just had to come back and add a few things, because I think I'm coming across as totally snarky and hateful, and it's really not my intention.

Before we had our daughter, I'll admit that I was pretty well one of "those" people who were all about their pets. The dogs were our babies, and there was nothing we would not do for them. However, having a child did change my perspective quite a bit. Did my dogs become less loved or cared for? No. Did my child become more important than my dogs? Yes.

I suppose I just don't think that it's fair for those who do not have children to judge those who do by saying that pets become disposable, etc. No responsible pet owner gets a disposable pet, or a practice pet to pretend that it's a child. Instead, sometimes, after a child comes along, things do change, and the parent/ pet owner has to make a responsible decision that is based upon what is best for them and their family.

[jajacobsen]

The tone of this thread leaves a bad taste in my mouth - for completely opposite reasons!

There is a finite amount of time and attention any adult can give to all the craetures who rely upon it. When a baby comes along, of course, the helpless infant gets the most while the animals get less. Their needs are less important. And yes, as a parent, you will love and bond with your child in a completely different and superior way to your animals.

I am in no way implying you have done this, but all too aften I see people - yes, friends and aquaintances, begin to emotionally and physically neglect their pets when the child comes along. Not grooming (i'm not talking silly stuff, I mean ears, claws, hygiene issues) then regularly because there is no time, not giving them physical affection, even 15 min a day, not even checking to ensure the animal eats or comes home daily.

It breaks my heart. They ease their conscience by sending the animals to shelters because they are sure they will be adopted out. It just doesn't work that way - the majority of these pets - even pure breds - and especially cats - will be killed. They treated that animal as disposable. You make a commitment to a pet for LIFE, good bad or indifferent.

This is my opinion and I stand by it.

[batgirl]

Unfortunately, many many people few pets are "starter" children and when they move on to real children, if the pets become inconvenient, they become "disposable."

I don't think this is aimed at anyone in this thread (because it isn't the case). But if it was directed at me, or someone else here, I find this comment highly offensive.


...but all too aften I see people - yes, friends and aquaintances, begin to emotionally and physically neglect their pets when the child comes along. Not grooming (i'm not talking silly stuff, I mean ears, claws, hygiene issues) then regularly because there is no time, not giving them physical affection, even 15 min a day, not even checking to ensure the animal eats or comes home daily.
This would sadden me, too. Are you still friends after this? After reading your posts, I would think you wouldn't be since you are such a vocal pet advocate.

[greenbunny]

And this comment:

is highly unfair. Your opinion - yes, but highly unfair. As much as pet owners want to believe that their pets are in fact 'children' they are not. They are not human. Sure, it's wonderful having pets. However, pets are nothing compared to human children. I have both, so I am certainly qualified to speak from experience.

Sorry, but the tone of this thread leaves a horrible taste in my mouth.

Those of us who work in animal rescue see this constantly--kids come along, and people decide they no longer have time for the animal. Just because it upsets you doesn't make it any less true. And just because you're a parent doesn't make you qualified to imply that animals are justifiably set aside once kids come along. They are not. Saying "you don't have kids so you don't understand" is a weak cop out.

No one is saying this is the case for the OP. But in general, yes, it's a common occurrence.

[roadrunner]

Those of us who work in animal rescue see this constantly--kids come along, and people decide they no longer have time for the animal. Just because it upsets you doesn't make it any less true. And just because you're a parent doesn't make you qualified to imply that animals are justifiably set aside once kids come along. They are not. Saying "you don't have kids so you don't understand" is a weak cop out.


I do realize that it is a reality, and a sad one at that, but I'm genuinely curious as to what your suggestion is for these families who feel they can no longer give a pet the attention it needs? Ignore it, just to satisfy those who work in shelters and who get irritated by people like them? Should they give up the kids for adoption? Really - what is your answer to this? I don't think that these people go into pet ownership with this as their intention, but they have a very real family situation which IS more important than any pet.

And this comment:

Saying "you don't have kids so you don't understand" is a weak cop out.


Is not a cop out, it's reality. If you don't have children, you really and truly do not know what it means to have the responsibility of a human life in your hands. It is a reality. Like you said, 'just because it upsets you dosen't make it any less true'. You might be able to sympathize with a parent, and try to understand them, but you (general - I don't know if you have children) don't know anything about 'real' parenthood.

I'm not naieve enough to think that people don't discard their pets because of their children. I'm just saying that you don't always know the specifics of the home situation, and that it's easy to judge 'parents' as pet discarders. Do I wish we never had to put our dog down? Yes. It breaks my heart each and every time I think about her. Was it the absolute right decision for my family? Yes. And, yeah, maybe if we didn't have children, I could have continued to be bitten and growled at by my own dog each and every day until she passed naturally. However, not having children has never been a consideration for me or my DH. Were we bad pet owners? I don't think so. We just were very unlucky in the doggie 'lottery' and got a pup with many many problems. Our other dog - we lucked out. She is wonderful. Not every animal is suited for every family. This is a reality.

Anyway, I know that it's not being directed at me personally, but I can't help but be sensitive to this topic.

[fuzzy]

I can't speak for greenbunny, but I personally wish that people would wait to obtain pets until later, after they have their families established, so that they can find an animal that will mesh well with their families.

If having children is important to you, fine. But do that first, see how it goes, then decide if you want an animal and what you are realistically able to give said animal.

BTW, there was no snark intended in my comment -- it was simply statement of what choices I would make. I fully understand the timing issue, I am 31 after all. Right now, my husband and I care for four cats, one dog and an horse. We wouldn't be able to properly care for all of them AND a child, so we've decided not to have children. Having children and having pets is a choice, not a lifetime requirement -- you have to prioritize which is important to you and having kids really isn't high on our list. So, again, I wish people wouldn't get pets as early as they do. I wish they'd wait until after the kids come. There'd be a lot fewer abandoned and euthanized animals, I think.

[greenbunny]

I do realize that it is a reality, and a sad one at that, but I'm genuinely curious as to what your suggestion is for these families who feel they can no longer give a pet the attention it needs? Ignore it, just to satisfy those who work in shelters and who get irritated by people like them? Should they give up the kids for adoption? Really - what is your answer to this? I don't think that these people go into pet ownership with this as their intention, but they have a very real family situation which IS more important than any pet.

That really depends on the situation. What type of family situation are you talking about, that warrants this sort of thing?

I have dealt with one or two pets whose owners had truly wrenching situations (like giving birth to a child with special needs), and when something tragic and unexpected like that happens, of course I feel for them. But usually, these are the people who do not want to give the animal up and are heartbroken to do so.

But, more often than not, the people are indifferent to giving up the animal, and that's when you hear the stock phrases like "We just don't have the time anymore" or "it just isn't working out". They don't have some terrible tragedy, they don't have a drastic situation. They just don't care about it now that they have a "real" kid.

ETA: Since you mention that we can't know the reason for giving up the animal, let me point out that this is a standard question when an animal is given up. We need to know if the animal has issues that will affect its future placement. For example, a cat that is aggressive towards other cats needs to be placed in a home with no other cats, so it's important that the rescue be made aware of this. Yes, the owner is capable of lying. But in general, you can get a feel for their attitude.

[prudies]

Wow, I can't believe anyone would do that. I had to put down the cat I had since I was 13 a couple of years ago because of cancer, and it was absolutely heartbreaking for me. I can't imagine someone being so flippant about it.

Though I never looked at my pets the same as I do my son, obviously, I have always viewed them (and continue to view my living cat) as members of my family. When DS came along, it was a transition for everyone, but one that evolved pretty naturally.

[greenbunny]

I can't imagine someone being so flippant about it.


It really is disgusting. When you have some free time, just browse through Petfinder. Do an expanded or national search. Especially with the hosted listings, you'll see stuff like "owners didn't want him anymore".

[wendalah]

DH and I are planning to have at least one child and part of the reason we chose our current pets is their friendliness with people in general and especially young children. I understand completely that having a baby will compromise my time with my dogs, but that's the way it goes. I'm sure the dogs would rather remain with us and have a little less attention than be given up completely to a new home. If you have a second baby, it compromises your time with the first kid. I am not a parent yet but I like to think I have a pretty realistic attitude about it. The dogs are part of the family and will remain that way.

ETA: I think this is one of the times in "coupledom" where the husband can really step up to the plate. Moms tend to want to do the bulk of work with babies, so hubby can take over animal care while she's nursing, or whatever. My friend has two sons under the age of 3 and a very active Lab. Her husband walks the dog and plays with him while she feeds or bathes the kids. It's good for her husband too because he gets some exercise time in for himself while taking care of a family necessity.

[jajacobsen]

Roadrunner - if you have a biting, growling dog then you made what you felt was an appropriate choice. No one is criticizing your choices and no one keeps harping on them except you. My nephew was bitten by a dog with issues. He still has a scar on his face. There had been a previous snap. I would have found a new home for the dog when that happened.

I think there is a huge difference between a biting growling dog and a puking cat. One is potentially dangerous and one is inconvenient.

I think you were dead on correct in your first post. The OP had already made up her mind and really was just postng here for validation. But she asked people what they thought and they tod her. Probably she should have done what you suggested and posted in a different forum.

As for those friends who neglect their pets - yes I truly feel veryy differently about them now. We're really not close friends any more.

[batgirl]

I think you were dead on correct in your first post. The OP had already made up her mind and really was just postng here for validation. But she asked people what they thought and they tod her. Probably she should have done what you suggested and posted in a different forum.


This post just shows me how clueless you really are. Hmmm, should I even bother with a response...

Um, how about, your incorrect. I had no idea what we were going to do when I posted this, and I still don't know what we will do, which is why we haven't done anything. If I had truly "made up my mind" why in the world would I have posted here? Hmmm? I already would have had "validation" from the vets (yes, plural) that told us that "no one would criticize us for euthanasia" (what a joke that was). I was looking for help (as the thread title suggests). I was curious to see what other people have done in a situation like this. What did I get? Well, I got a lot of thoughtful responses, I got some snark (but it was expected), I got some people attacking others that offered me their support (which is why many resorted to PMing me instead of posting, can't say that I blame them). But I did get a lot to think about. Even if it wasn't what I wanted to hear.

In fact, I think the post that helped me out the most was posted some time ago (I think by Pocket. She said "you don't want to be the bitch that killed his (DH's) cat". This really hit home. I know she's right. This helped me a lot.

So if you don't have anything better to offer other than suggesting he is a "disposable pet" and that we just started to consider euthanasia when we found out we were pregnant, well, go find yourself another forum, because your not contributing anything to this one.

[LittleFredPunkinHead]

So if you don't have anything better to offer other than suggesting he is a "disposable pet" and that we just started to consider euthanasia when we found out we were pregnant, well, go find yourself another forum, because your not contributing anything to this one.
Had you considered euthanasia before you found out you were pregnant?

[batgirl]

Had you considered euthanasia before you found out you were pregnant?

Short answer is yes. A vet was actually the first person to suggest it a few years ago. She told us that we pretty much live with it (the puking) as long as we can (at this time we had already tried many treatments, foods, etc). At the time, our response was "No, we can't do this yet", but it has always been at the back of our minds, I guess. We'll discuss it after a particularly bad month or so.

The pregnancy has certainly brought stress of its own into the house (unfortunately, this has coincided with an increase in puking). This is why I posted one of my biggest worries... namely, that I was just more hormonal/stressed out with the pregnancy (and now "nesting"), perhaps amplfying the problem or making me less able to deal with it... and that one of my biggest fears was that we would regret our decision post-baby.

So, I guess my short answer turned out to be a long answer. But I want people to know, this is not as simple as "discard the puking cat 'cause there's a baby on the way..."

[jajacobsen]

Batgirl - I DIDN'T say those things - Roadrunner did in post number 87, third paragraph, but I guess I'll take the heat since she supports your position and I don't. I NEVER said that you considered euthanasia when you found out you were pregnant. I said that it seems that you consider terminating the cat's life when it became inconvenient.

This topic, as many do on a public board, morphed away from the specifics of your post onto a broader issue. It was to this issue that I used the term "disposable." I think posters are having reactions to that term because it is painfully, brutally true. Anyone who has ever volunteered at an animal shelter for even a week can attest to this.

I am glad some of the of the posts, such as pockets, have been helpful to you. However, in your response to that post, you were considering your husbands feelings (valid) but again, not the cat's rights. I understand that you have tried a few premium cat foods, but you seem unwilling to try other diet suggestions that I and others have suggested, even though they have proved helpful to us in similar circumstances.

So if you don't want practical suggestions and you don't want to hear opposing positions, then it makes me wonder why you post except to hope for validation. You and I feel very differently about this issue. If you don't want to hear from people who feel very differently than you, don't post on public boards, especially not in forums which are pro-XXXX when your issue is not. Now you're upset and I look like a a meanie but I'm really, really not. I am just very pro animal rights.

[pocket]

We don't live in a vacuum. We all have families, parents, friends, communities. My parents didn't get rid of their pets when they had me. My IL's didn't get rid of their pets, my GIL's didn't, I don't have a single friend who did it. I don't know one single person in my humongous family of dog owners who would do such a thing. My dog was my best friend when I was growing up. I learned to walk pulling up on her ears. Pita also had a dog he grew up with. For a lot of people the dog-kid relationship is one they want to give their children. Why is it so impossible to believe that some people's families include animals? Pets are not children, they are pets. That doesn't mean we don't have a whole set of responsibilities to them.

[batgirl]

Batgirl - I DIDN'T say those things -
I'm sorry if I misunderstood your post. But since I'm the OP and its my puking cat, I took it very personally.


I said that it seems that you consider terminating the cat's life when it became inconvenient.
If it were truly about inconvience, this cat would have been gone a long time ago.


I am glad some of the of the posts, such as pockets, have been helpful to you. However, in your response to that post, you were considering your husbands feelings (valid) but again, not the cat's rights.
Yup, I feel that DH's feelings trump cat's rights. Does this make me heartless? So be it.


I understand that you have tried a few premium cat foods, but you seem unwilling to try other diet suggestions that I and others have suggested, even though they have proved helpful to us in similar circumstances.
We have tried every diet suggested to us by his vet. It has included several premium cat foods, and many other types of diets as well. His old vet (and this has since been confirmed by his new vet) doesn't believe this to be an allergy or other disorder treatable with diet. So because I'm not going to try cream of wheat or whatever (unless the vet changes her mind and thinks it would help) this makes me unreasonable? So be it.


So if you don't want practical suggestions and you don't want to hear opposing positions, then it makes me wonder why you post except to hope for validation. You and I feel very differently about this issue. If you don't want to hear from people who feel very differently than you, don't post on public boards, especially not in forums which are pro-XXXX when your issue is not.
What has made you think that I didn't want to hear opposing postitions? I have been open to many of the things suggested in this thread (we've tried most of them). I have read every single post, I have not gotten offended (until today). And the validation comment... you really believe that anyone would come here for validation? Boy, I wasn't born yesturday, and sorry, not a masochist, either. Just a person who is struggling with an ill cat and wondering what other people have done in similar situations.

But if it makes you feel more pro-animal to continue to attack me... go ahead. I'm a big girl. Just don't expect a big sloppy kiss in return...

[pocket]

If you don't have children, you really and truly do not know what it means to have the responsibility of a human life in your hands. It is a reality. Like you said, 'just because it upsets you dosen't make it any less true'. You might be able to sympathize with a parent, and try to understand them, but you (general - I don't know if you have children) don't know anything about 'real' parenthood.

My parents had and have pets. My IL's do. My GPIL's do and my GP's did. My cousins, aunts, uncles and friends all seem to meet their responsibilities. I do not know one single person who has had a pet put down because they had a kid. I don't think the division is between people who do and don't have children, but rather between people who do and don't take good care of their pets.

I am absolutely sure that I would never put Ari down or make him go away because we had a baby. the very idea brings tears to my eyes.

[kam]

My parents had and have pets. My IL's do. My GPIL's do and my GP's did. My cousins, aunts, uncles and friends all seem to meet their responsibilities. I do not know one single person who has had a pet put down because they had a kid. I don't think the division is between people who do and don't have children, but rather between people who do and don't take good care of their pets.

I wonder how my parents managed. Geesh - the family dog was 6 when my brother came and 10 when I came. And my brother, who had 7 pets before his son was born and somehow manages to spend quality time with everyone. I don't think it has to be a "have a child and neglect your pet OR don't have children and don't neglect your pet" decision. I love my dogs and cats and spend time with them, but it's not like they ask for much attention. They pretty much ignore me and sleep most of the time anyhow. A 15 minute walk here, a thrown toy there. A few minutes of petting. Otherwise, they have no use for me ;)

[wendalah]

I don't think the division is between people who do and don't have children, but rather between people who do and don't take good care of their pets.


Yes, this is a good way to put it. It's just about taking care of a family in general, which includes pets.

[jesvet]

This isn't directed at the op but more to the general question of pets and kids- yes, your relationship changes, not to more or less, but different. The pets move down the totem pole just like my husband did, and my toddler eventually did, because the baby needs me most. It doesn't make me love them less, and despite having fewer walks and less one on one attention (there are just limited resources!) I still take care of their needs. My golden had a major elective orthopedic surgery when DD was a month old; you do what you have to do.

They are family members, and I love them the same as I always have although their relationship to me has of necessity changed. I've worked through their issues with the baby, but I have not had to deal with major issues that would potentially put the baby at risk. It's a tough situation and I'm not going to venture any opinions here.

[jajacobsen]

Bat girl - let's just agree to disagree on this since neither of us is getting anywhere.

I am NOT attacking you; I just don't agree with you. FWIW, I feel somewhat attacked BUT, since I chose to post my opinion, that's the risk I take. I just really wonder what insight you hped to gain by posting the situation here, since you seem to defer past to the advice of current and former vets already offered.

[roadrunner]

My parents had and have pets. My IL's do. My GPIL's do and my GP's did. My cousins, aunts, uncles and friends all seem to meet their responsibilities. I do not know one single person who has had a pet put down because they had a kid.

I think that is wonderful. :D However, like others have said, pets do get put down because of the change in family dynamic/ and /or pet issues. I just don't feel that people should be criticized for the decisions they are making for their family.


I don't think the division is between people who do and don't have children, but rather between people who do and don't take good care of their pets.

This is a terrible assumption, and goes right to the heart of what I mentioned above. It seems that if you choose to make a decision about your pet, based on the needs of your family, then automatically you are a bad pet owner. I just don't think this is a fair analogy, and I believe it is part of why the OP is feeling attacked.

It sounds to me like the OP is and has been taking very good care of her pet. It sounds as though she has exhausted several means of coping with the issue. She cares enough about the welfare of this animal to feel very torn about what the right decision is. There is no way that any of this could possibly be interpreted to mean that she does not take good care of her pet.

[pocket]

I'm not judging OP - I think she is doing fine and made the right decision for the right reasons. She loves her DH and she's a responsible person who takes her commitments seriously. She even thanked me specifically for my input.

[villanelle75]

I just don't feel that people should be criticized for the decisions they are making for their family.


Really? Because I have to tell you, I feel completely comfortable with judging someone and criticizing their decision to put down or abandon a pet under all but the most extreme circumstances. And I'd go further and say that I'd think if someone was really 100% comfortable with their own decision to execute their pet because he didn't fit in so well with their changed family, then they'd know what they did was right for them and not worry about some stranger's assessment.

ETA:I'm not referring to the OP here, but making a general statement.

[roadrunner]

pocket ~ I know that. I was just using the information you posted to elaborate. Sorry if I was unclear.

[roadrunner]

Because I have to tell you, I feel complelyl comfortable with judging someone and crticizing their decision to put down or abandon a pet under all but the most extreme circumstances.

But who gets to decide what the most 'extreme circumstances' are?
Do you? Do I?

[villanelle75]

But who gets to decide what the most 'extreme circumstances' are?

Well if I'm the one doing the judging, then I guess that I am the one who gets to make that decision. But really, for me, it comes down to this: If your pet is not experiencing fairly severe pain with no possibility of recovery, then I can never be 100% on board with putting it down. Even in cases where a dog attacks a human, I'm torn because in many of those situations, there are alternatives. My parent's adopted a dog that turned out to have probelms even more seriosu than his foster family had discovered. (They knew he needed socializing.) He was very fearful and as it turns out, he lashed out, growled, and sometimes and bit when he felt threatened. He hurt my mom a couple times, once requiring stitches, and finally went after (and got) my dad's face. They were able to find a home for him through breed rescue where he could live out his days with other dogs and no humans, as a pack. (He was never dog aggressive.) I'm sure almost any vet would have agreed to, even recommended perhaps, putting him down. But my mom felt that even though she only had the dog for a few months, and even though it was considered a "trial adoption", she owed it to this dog to at least find him a place to live out his days.

[pocket]

roadrunner -

it seems to me, from what you described, that there were probably intermediate steps you could have taken rather than killing your dog. I know the dog is already dead so there's not much you can do about it now. i know this isn't what you want to hear. but a pet is a life that you took on voluntarily. no one forced you to do it. that dog could have gone home that day you picked him up with another family who would have socialized it better or worked with the dog to retrain the aggression. After exhausting those options, another family would have re-homed the dog either themselves or through a non-profit organization.

As villanelle's family did in the example above. Once you have taken on the responsibility for another creature's life you don't get to put it down again because your life changes. It's a commitment for life.

[artist]

Well, I suppose one could argue that cat vomit is dangerous. After all, last night I got up to use the restroom, stepped in a pile of vomit, slipped and cracked the back of my head on the hardwoods. :p


(I have four cats, one has IBS and vomits at least once a day, usually more.)

:D

LMAO!

Should I not ever have a baby because sometimes my dog has an accident on the floor, usually when he's frightened by a storm and won't let us know he needs to go potty? (Or should I put my dog to sleep for that if I ever have a baby?)

[jajacobsen]

As with any "right to life" type discussion, I just don't think there is a middle ground for most of us. Some of us feel one way, with very strong ethical reasons of loyalty, responsibility and right and wrong, while posters on the "other side" have equally strong feelings of responsibility, loyalty and right and wrong. To some people, responsibilties to pets change when a baby comes along and to some of us although our available time may change, our commitment to that pet does not change. I don't really wanna be a thread killer, but there is no making the other side (any side) see the light here. As I said before, we will have to agree to disagree.

[jajacobsen]

Or we could continue arguing just for the sake of it:D But I really think we all know where each of us stand on the issue and the OP has received a lot of (someshe found helpful and some not so much) responses and I just think some people are starting to get a little upset.

[artist]

FWIW, with the Terri Shaivo thing, I was on the side of "let her die" as I believe that was what she would have wanted, I believe she had no quality of life, etc. I also have watched loved ones such as my grandpa suffer a great deal at the very end of his life. I have had to deal with the pain of putting a pet to sleep. If I were a vegetable, I would want the plug pulled. If my pet or my husband had no quality of life, they would want to be put out of their misery too. I think that is the humane thing to do whether we're talking pets or people.

But let's say my husband had some sort of an illness where he had to throw up a lot, or let's say he sometimes crapped his own pants or something, but other than that, he was doing okay. Would it really be ethical to have him die?

I do of course realize a lot of you do not like compare pets to people and some of you do not consider pets a real part of the family. And I do completely get that a baby is obviously a really big deal, life changing, and so on, but I still am going to have to disagree that a pet is disposable if your life circumstance changes. If your child or spouse ends up with extremely serious asthma or allergies where it is just plain dangerous to keep having your pet, I can understand finding a new home for that pet. But I could not see putting the pet to sleep because of that.

And I really do apologize to OP if my words seem harsh, but I just think in this situation the cat puking although obviously an annoying thing to deal with is not really a reason to put the cat to sleep, unless of course there are other medical problems going on that a vet would say is making this cat's life truely miserable to the point of the cat having no quality of life.

When we adopted our dog for example at a no kill shelter, we were asked a number of questions, had our photo IDs photocopied and put on file to be checked, had to promise that we would keep our dog if we had kids, if we got divorced, etc., had to have some sort of a fence, etc. We made a commitment to our pets when we adopted them. If we had a baby and our dog attacked our child, that would be different and I think any animal expert would agree. One of my best friends who just loves all animals and has several pets HAD to put a puppy to sleep once for this. She wanted a dog so bad, bought this adorable little puppy with her credit card, was so excited, and took him to puppy classes at the same place she adopted him which happened to be the Humane Society. Unfortunately the puppy had this biting problem to the degree that the dog obedience teacher, the staff at the Humane Society, AND the vet all urged her to put the dog to sleep. My friend sobbed and sobbed and was just a mess and ended up putting the dog to sleep. But a cat puking? Nah, I wouldn't put the cat to sleep.

[roadrunner]

pocket ~

it seems to me, from what you described, that there were probably intermediate steps you could have taken rather than killing your dog. I know the dog is already dead so there's not much you can do about it now. i know this isn't what you want to hear. but a pet is a life that you took on voluntarily. no one forced you to do it. that dog could have gone home that day you picked him up with another family who would have socialized it better or worked with the dog to retrain the aggression. After exhausting those options, another family would have re-homed the dog either themselves or through a non-profit organization.


What a horrible and hateful thing to say to someone whose situation you know nothing of. I had a whole post typed out explaining some of the 'intermediate' steps we took and how her aggression and seizures developed, but this thread is not about that.

I really don't care what you think, but just know that we know that the decision we made was best for us and for the dog.

Seriously, what the heck did I do to you to warrant such a mean, hateful, inconsiderate response? And what relevence does it even have in this thread?

[cosmic]

don't post on public boards, especially not in forums which are pro-XXXX when your issue is not. Now you're upset and I look like a a meanie but I'm really, really not. I am just very pro animal rights.

Ohhhhhh... didn't know this forum had a certain lean. (Well, it would be impossible not to know that NOW, wouldn't it?) Maybe we should ask the moderators for a disclaimer or something so people who love animals but aren't extreme (or waiting until our pets die to have children :rolleyes: ) won't bother with this section of the board:
"Unless you want your situation to become the backdrop for someone's VERY pro animal stance, move along."

[maxandmolly]

"Unless you want your situation to become the backdrop for someone's VERY pro animal stance, move along."
What is so wrong with being "VERY pro animal"? What is so wrong with not wanting pets to live long healthy lives with families who love and care for them? It's a sad world we live in when that's a out of the mainstream stance on things.
I adopted what I thought was a perfect little 30lb. apartment dog. I soon learned Beagle mixes with undiagnosed by the shelter seperation anxiety are NOT apartment dogs. They are destructive little terrors. In less than 8 months, she did no less than $1,000 worth of damage to my stuff and the apartment we lived in. I tried crating her-the Houdini got out of it, no idea how. Medication? Didn't help. When I had to move (bad life stuff happening) and couldn't take her with me, did I give her back to the shelter and walk away? HELL NO. I begged, borrowed, pleaded, begged and guilted my mother and s-father to take her in. She is now a 50lb. Beagle mix (though they swore she was already full grown) with fewer anxiety issues, a love of her big backyard, her Uncle Rusty (Chow/Golden mix), and her "cave" underneath the bed.

[cosmic]

What is so wrong with being "VERY pro animal"?

No one said there was.

[maxandmolly]

Your post certainly had that kind of tone to it. As well as many others in this thread.

[cosmic]

I was responding to the poster who insinuated that anyone who doesn't hold her views should expect bad treatment. Since I've already had my share of flames here you may want to catch up. You'll find that I'm pretty pro-animal myself (just not pro-animal to the point of risking a human's health) and a person who is struggling to keep two cats with aggression issues in the same house with me, DH and a new baby on the way. We have the scars to show for it. So I'm already walking the walk. In the end, just like anyone else, I will do what's best for my family. And I'm not looking for anyone's approval because hardly anyone here is in the exact boat. But I'm doing what I can to work it out.

[jajacobsen]

Cosmic - FTR, THREE TIMES (posts 120, 129, 130) I have tried to take an "agree to disagree" tone because, this is an issue where the beliefs are so core that neither side is able to convince the other to change opinions. That is blatantly clear.

Last night I stopped posting here because I felt the posts were getting heated and personal (not against me, but I did not want to exacerbate the situation).

However, this is the PETS forum. I mean c'mon, while the forum is meant to be informational, it is somewhat understood that there is a strong pro- pet bias While that is not required to post, posters should not be surpised at the tone of responses.

As an example, the PARENTING forum is for information about and usually read by for those excited about their children. I certainly could post in that forum my plans to send my child to boarding school at age six in order to reduce the stress in the household and devote more time to the husband/wife relationship rather than parenting (this is a completely made-up scenario) and ask opinions; however, I doubt I would receive many positive responses. I may have very valid reasons for needing for time with my husband. The boarding school might have an excellent reputation. But I feel I would hear many dissenting or critical posts and should expect to do so.

These are just my opinions; I could be wrong.

[batgirl]

jajacobsen did you even read the opening post? Or the thread title? Cause it sure doesn't sound like you did. I suggest go back and reading it, and if you do, you'll see that this is not a "gonna have a kid, now don't want a cat problem".

I don't know how it got swung so badly in this direction. No one is saying (at least not me) that pets are inconvenient once children are in the picture. Whomever said that pets are part of the family, was dead on. I view all three of our cats as members of our family. We have a serious medical issue with one of those cats. A cat that has puked a minimum of two times a day since before DH and I were together (we have been together for 6 years). Many times the cats goes in stretches where he throws up 4-6 times a day (which was why we had a recent "quality of life" appt at the vet (he's now back to 2-4, which I think was where he was at when I finally posted). He is also starting to lose a lot of weight. This is why I did not post in the parenting forum (duh!)

I did mention in my opening post that I am more frustrated now with a baby on the way, that I was ready (or thought I was) to put the cat down. This has since been reconsidered, oh, about 100 times. It is not just because we are having a baby. But I did post that I was worried that having a baby was influencing my decision. But it forced DH and I to considered various decisions. We haven't acted on anything. He is still alive and puking. This is why I was so ticked off at jajacobsen for stating that I had already made my decision and was just looking for validation. Please :rolleyes: . So go ahead and back peddle. Blame it on roadrunner. And FWIW, I have not felt attacked by anyone on this thread until you came along. So please, keep posting if you must, but stop putting words in my mouth. Thanks.

and Cosmic thanks. I'm glad I wasn't the only one to pick up on the snark in that post.

[jajacobsen]

Yes, I have read every bit of this post very carefully. I have not attributed comments to people who did not make them. I am well aware the title of this post is "putting down a non-terminal pet - please help." What type of help did you want? I mean taht as a genuine question because at this point I am honestly confused. Practical suggestions have been dismissed as you refer back to information your vets gave you PRIOR to even posting. Okay so, you don't want practical advice. Again, what kind of help? Emotional support? Post on the emotional support thread,then. Because by your own admission, the pet is non-terminal and to many of us posting here (clearly) termination of life is wrong in this circumstance. (Just to clarify for others, this is NOT euthanasia by definition, because the pet is non-terminal). I think it would be a reasonable expectation that would be teh philosophy of many posting on the PETS forum.

You have told us how you feel and it appears you have been through a lot. It sounds really really hard. Again, what help do you want? For us to tell you its okay? You sound very strong in your opinions and strong in your convictions. Why did you post here? I mean this nicely and curiously, because clearly you are upset about the tone of the responses.

Again, I repeat, posts on public boards morph into discussions of broader topics, which was what my second post addressed. I have not personally attacked you and have tried to remain polite and thoughtful in my responses. I have not felt attacked until now nor have I used that word until now. And I am not blaming anything on Roadrunner; you attributed her comment to me and I pointed that out to you and gave you the post number to which to refer. I discontinued posting ntil this morning, when Cosmic specifically adderssed and questioned teh validity of my comment, with a fair amount of snark in her tone.

So, it appaers that you don't like me and don't like my opinions. You seem annoyed that I continue to post. So do you and I fail to see why since you're clearly not gaining anything from this nor wil you change my mind. Again, for the third time, let's just agree to disagree.

[roadrunner]

I really am trying to stay away from this thread, but for some reason I cannot.

I don't see why it has to be an all or nothing situation. Being pro-animal rights (which I think most of us are) does not have to mean being unnecessarily irresponsible with regards to the safety/ comfort of one's family. Like wise, being concerned first and foremost about the safety/comfort of one's family does not mean that you are not pro-animal rights.

I do think that batgirl made it very clear from the beginning that this was an issue they have been dealing with for awhile now, and have been considering their options for awhile. She does have very real and relevant concerns about her ability to deal with this ill cat once a child has been added to their family.

Like I said before, it's very easy to judge someone when you are not in their situation.

Personally, I'm more concerned with the disposability of marriages these days than the disposability of pets!

It's really too bad that people feel this is such an all or nothing situation. It's sad that people cannot see past their own noses for one moment to allow the possibility that another person is experiencing a difficulty that they feel they can no longer cope with.

[wendalah]

Personally, I'm more concerned with the disposability of marriages these days than the disposability of pets!

You're more concerned with people getting divorced than people unneccesarily killing animals? I'm sorry. I don't think you're going to find much empathy here with that statement.

[wendalah]

And, btw, for someone who is stating:


It's sad that people cannot see past their own noses for one moment to allow the possibility that another person is experiencing a difficulty that they feel they can no longer cope with.


Your concern regarding others' marriages/divorces is a particularly hypocritical one.

[lawyerlee]

Personally, I'm more concerned with the disposability of marriages these days than the disposability of pets!
What in the hell does one have to do with the other? :confused:

[kam]

Like I said before, it's very easy to judge someone when you are not in their situation.

So those who have been in a similar situation and don't agree with her approach - this is okay? Because I'm fairly certain more than one person has piped in saying that they've been there, done that.

And talk to Britney Spears about the marriage thing. It has nothing to do with this conversation unless you made a leap somewhere that I missed.


It's really too bad that people feel this is such an all or nothing situation. It's sad that people cannot see past their own noses for one moment to allow the possibility that another person is experiencing a difficulty that they feel they can no longer cope with.

She doesn't want to cope. That's the point. She hit her breaking point and wants people in the pets forum to support her. It won't happen.

[allyray231]

Thought I would come here and post about life with baby and kitty.

I adore my cat. He was my first son. When my human son came along my cat was neglected. I hate to say it but he was. It took a while but we are slowly getting him back to where he used to be (however I do need to groom him more)

My cat vomits a lot-acutally 4 times last night. And sometimes he has poop on his put and I have to clean it. It sucks but you know what-he is my cat and my first child and I love him and could never imagine life without him.

My cat is wonderful with my son. He has, however, scratched him a few times. My DH went nuts and I tried to explain to him that it isn't the cats fault-he is an animal!! Dh keeps saying he will get rid of the cat!! I know he won't.

My advice to you is if you feel you can't handle the cat PLEASE try and find a home for it. I will help you!! Don't put him down just because he vomits. :(

Oh and my son ADORES my cat. He is his best friend. I don't think he could imagine life withouth his kitty cat :)

[kindermom]

Batgirl. First of all, you have my sympathy with your situation. You really are caught between a rock and a hard place. I have been following since you first posted the message and am always reticent to say anything on threads where people are so vehemently opinionated as they are here.

But I was wondering if any of the vets mentioned whether or not the cat was in any pain. I mean throwing up hurts. Stomach acid burns the throat. It can actually hurt the esophagial (sp?) muscles as the move the food up. It can hurt the stomach and abs as you hurl. Now I am assuming that the cat is not feeling tremendous as they hurl everyday. I am not sure if it matters but I was really curious what the professionals (aka the vets) think about your/DH's poor cats physical well-being.

[MLA]

It's really too bad that people feel this is such an all or nothing situation.

Sorry, but this is an “all or nothing” situation. We’re talking about ending an animal’s life. I don’t see how more black and white it can be. Kill the cat or don’t kill the cat. It’s a non-terminal pet with a decent quality of life. We’re not talking about a pet that’s in pain, where the owner isn’t sure that it’s yet time to euthanize. We’re talking about a cat that’s basically healthy but annoying.

I’ve said before that I think that putting this cat down is wrong. If you’re unwilling to make changes in your lifestyle to take care of an animal that you’ve taken in, I just don’t have much sympathy. It’s better to put the cat down than to confine it to one room? It’s better to put the cat down than to give it to a no kill shelter? That’s just crazy, IMO.

Oh, and I don’t think this is a case of baby = kill pet. Although, I think that happens.

[greenbunny]

I don't see why it has to be an all or nothing situation.


You are making it one. The people arguing against your POV have said several times that keeping the cat or euthanizing it are NOT the only options.


Like I said before, it's very easy to judge someone when you are not in their situation.

Many of us have stated multiple times that we have dealt with pets with serious non-terminal problems. There are tons of threads in this forum about it. My own thread detailing my year-long battle with my cat's issues is multiple pages.

Please stop throwing out useless platitudes and cliches, and actually read.

This thread has gone way beyond your specific issue, batgirl; I hope you realize that the severe irritation some of us are feeling is not directed at you.

[roadrunner]

Seriously, why am I even bothering, when it's pretty obvious that people are simply looking for any little detail to flame?

This...
Personally, I'm more concerned with the disposability of marriages these days than the disposability of pets! was in fact meant in the most lighthearted way, intended to display that FACT that there are many many MANY other issues in life which are of the utmost importance to many people. So sorry that the intended meaning got lost in the 'online translation'.


You are making it one. The people arguing against your POV have said several times that keeping the cat or euthanizing it are NOT the only options.

...and I agree. But the issue I'm referring to with regards to it being 'all or nothing' is being a responsible pet owner or being a horrid person, all because someone is incapable of dealing with a difficult situation.

Anyhow, this 'discussion' is really and truly going nowhere. I don't know that much that is being said is of any value to the OP anymore, and really all everyone (myself included) is doing is ruffling others' feathers at this point.

[batgirl]

Yes, I have read every bit of this post very carefully. I have not attributed comments to people who did not make them.
So in post#109, this wasn't you?

The OP had already made up her mind and really was just postng here for validation.


I am well aware the title of this post is "putting down a non-terminal pet - please help." What type of help did you want? I mean taht as a genuine question because at this point I am honestly confused.
Since you read "every bit of this so carefully" you already know the answer to this. But if I must restate it again... I was hoping to see if anyone else had ever been in a similar situation and wondered what they did.


Practical suggestions have been dismissed as you refer back to information your vets gave you PRIOR to even posting.
Like what? I haven't tried cream of wheat? I haven't sent him to a no-kill shelter? FWIW, I haven't NOT sent him to a no-kill shelter either, and I did call the one in my area as suggested by people in this post. (but you know this already since you read the thread so carefully). Several people mentioned different meds to try which I will be asking the vet about at his next appt. Or should I somehow just run out and try to find these meds on the blackmarket somewhere just because someone on CC told me to?


Okay so, you don't want practical advice.
Whatever... :rolleyes:


Again, what kind of help? Emotional support? Post on the emotional support thread,then. Because by your own admission, the pet is non-terminal and to many of us posting here (clearly) termination of life is wrong in this circumstance. (Just to clarify for others, this is NOT euthanasia by definition, because the pet is non-terminal).
From dictionary.com

The act or practice of ending the life of an individual suffering from a terminal illness or an incurable condition, as by lethal injection or the suspension of extraordinary medical treatment.
So far, this has been a incurable condition, and the vets don't know what else to suggest. Also, his vets have referred to it as euthanasia, shall I tell them that you don't agree with their terminology? How many years of vet school have you had?

And stop telling me that I should have posted in a different forum. Its getting old. And stop asking me why I posted. If you don't have anything else to add, you go post in another forum. Or create a spinoff thread.


I mean this nicely and curiously, because clearly you are upset about the tone of the responses.
Wrong again. As I have said numerous times (but you know this already) I have not been upset by anyone's posts, even the hard to read ones. Your posts are the only ones that have been extremely rude, which is why I keep responding to them.


Again, I repeat, posts on public boards morph into discussions of broader topics, which was what my second post addressed.
Really? Thanks, cause I was born yesturday afterall.


And I am not blaming anything on Roadrunner; you attributed her comment to me and I pointed that out to you and gave you the post number to which to refer.
So when I called you out regarding your above quote (#109) you didn't respond...

Batgirl - I DIDN'T say those things - Roadrunner did...
Is it so hard to own what you've posted?


I discontinued posting ntil this morning, when Cosmic specifically adderssed and questioned teh validity of my comment, with a fair amount of snark in her tone.
You discontinued posting?
Are you really that surprised that someone else commented on your snarky comment? This is a public board after all.

For everyone else, sorry this was so long. Lots of bs to get through after all...

[batgirl]

She doesn't want to cope. That's the point. She hit her breaking point and wants people in the pets forum to support her. It won't happen.

Is this one referring to me? Its so hard to tell now that so many things are being discussed in this thread.

If it is... sorry, but still coping. I must not have hit my breaking point, don't know if I will. And sorry, but I have gotten lots of support from this forum. So the blanket statement of "It won't happen" ain't true.

[bird_feet]

I think this thread has morphed into a broader discussion, which often happens and I believe is fine. I hope that the OP realizes that comments from either side of the situation as of late are based on a larger picture and not completely on her current situation.

I do think that there's a valid point in bringing up that society has become disposable. It has when it comes to cars, marriages, friendships, pets, etc. And it's hard to place these things in an order of importance. For each person based on experience the order could be different. However I do disagree with the implication that a disposable marriage is more important than disposing of a pet, especially in the case of killing when there's no medical reason (ie animal is in pain) to do so. Behavioral issues, maybe depending on the situation, but even then I see that as a last resort.

With the OP I don't see her situation as such where the cat should be put down. It seems as though because the thought of killing the cat has been considered that's why strong emotions and comments seen as attacks have been made. I wonder if responses would have been different had just rehoming the cat been the prefered option of the OP.

Many of the people who frequent this forum are animal advocates. They've worked or volunteered with a rescue or have a passion about helping animals. So while not everyone has been in the exact shoes of the OP we've seen and heard many stories like this. We do understand that hardships come up. Many people are losing jobs and perhaps can't afford to keep a pet. There are many situations where it's too late to prevent an animal from having to be given up. Those people with close ties to animal rescue try to educate in order to stop overpopulation, teach that owning a pet is "for life" and is a big responsibility. Without education on the issues the problems will just continue. So while not everyone who has posted has been in the situation of the OP, many of us have been as close as we can to being in one when dealing with situations like this all of the time. I hope that even though some people who have commented in this thread aren't as into being animal advocates can attempt to see things from the point of view of someone trying to save animal lives. Think about what it's like to deal with people every day who want to give up their pets because they're tired of them. [And I'm not saying that this is the case of the OP.]

There are shelters across the country putting down animals due to lack of space and/or disease. Many people think that because they're not no-kill that they're "evil". The people working there don't like that part of their job. But when literally 30 cats come in and only 2 are adopted in a day there's definitely a numbers issue. All shelters and rescues, no-kill or not, do what they can to foster animals, give them more time, care for them, etc. But it's a neverending job because not enough people are educated on how to stop the existence of unwanted animals.

I hope that in all of these replies that the OP has at least learned something about owning an animal. I do believe that once you bring an animal into your family that it remains part of the family. Just because animals don't have the "smarts" that humans have doesn't mean that their life should mean any less.

[nooblet]

To try and get away from all the flaming...

Batgirl - Has anything worked? I saw many sugestions that seem like very good ideas and I'd like to know if they worked or didn't.

[jesvet]

I have euthanized a pet in the past with severe IBD. It's not quite cancer, where it's clearly a terminal disease, and can often be managed with meds and diet; but it can also be a debilitating disease that affects quality of life. It seems to me this is more than 'the pet is puking and I'm sick of cleaning it up' and the OP is really concerned about quality of life; it's a gray area. I do get that you are a conscientious owner. I don't think this thread would have blown up if it hadn't somehow turned into 'I'm pregnant and I don't want to deal anymore', which I don't think you are trying to say. IMO. Then it got off on a broader tangent but people are still reading it as directed at them...it's getting confusing.

<Mod hat on> I know this is an emotional issue for everyone, but I think it's getting to the point where people on both sides are over-reading things and making assumptions that just aren't there. Pretty much everyone in the pets forum likes animals. I'm not going to threaten locking the thread, but I am going to gently suggest maybe taking a break from the thread if you (general you) are having trouble separating the broad issues being discussed from the individual situations presented.

[ysolde]

My parents had two children (one of them, me, a special needs child) and several pets. Many of our pets have been strays my father has found while jogging, whose owners were never found (can you say "abandoned"?). Some of them have required special diets. Neither my sister nor I ever got sick from exposure to dog or cat vomit. One of our dogs was quite sick, and required several blood transfusions. One of them developed cancer, and required chemotherapy to extend her life. Our entire family has gone into mourning when one of our pets has passed away. Putting a pet down because he/she was terminal, and medical treatment would be painful and would not have a significant life-extending effect was a gut-wrenching decision.

I was always taught not to adopt a pet without first taking into account the cost of its medical treatment, which can run into the thousands of dollars in a year, and without making a lifelong commitment to that pet.

So, to those who would callously and easily dispose of a pet because of changed life circumstances, I just don't get it.

Now, to Batgirl, you are in a tough spot. Were I in your shoes, I would stick it out with the cat. The baby will be fine, and your DH will appreciate it.

[jajacobsen]

Batgirl - this is way too much drama for what is clearly already an unfortuante situation for you. I hope that you do see a vet and I hope that you cotinue to seek alternate choices other than termination of life. I genuinely wish you and your pet, and you soon to be baby, the best possible outcome.

In fairness, I have been polite in my tone to you, and I find that you are increasingly personal in your responses, and your attacks are crtitical of me, not my opinions. Please do not quote me out of context. This is why I choose to refer to posts by number allowing readers to gain the entire meaning of words rather than select portions which serve my purpose.

I do note that it has been almost 30 days since your first post, and I do hope that if the situation is as dire as you portray, that you do get the cat in to see the vet sooner rather than later, to discuss the treatment options and medicines suggested by posters, as you indicated that you wished to do so.

Again, I wish you, your baby and your pet the best, and even if unilateral, I will agree to disagree (for the fourth time). I do not intend to post on this thread further, as there is nothing more to be gained. If you have further comments for me, please PM me, as this squabble in a public forum is starting to reflect poorly on both of us.

[batgirl]

But I was wondering if any of the vets mentioned whether or not the cat was in any pain. I mean throwing up hurts. Stomach acid burns the throat. It can actually hurt the esophagial (sp?) muscles as the move the food up. It can hurt the stomach and abs as you hurl. Now I am assuming that the cat is not feeling tremendous as they hurl everyday. I am not sure if it matters but I was really curious what the professionals (aka the vets) think about your/DH's poor cats physical well-being.

I agree with you. We are definitely concerned about his quality of life. The vet is, too, especially since he's down 3lbs since January. This was one of the main reasons we are at least considering euthanasia. Unfortanately, its so hard to tell if he's in pain...

allyray thanks for you post. We have asked around to see if friends/relatives would take him (he's pretty social/friendly). Unfortanately, the people that cat sit him while we were in Ireland last year won't even cat sit anymore. And the no kill shelter told me that they didn't want him because there are so many healthy cats they need space for (they did say they would take him if we "dropped him off".) Don't know what we will do. Certainly nothing pre-baby. We'll just continue to give him his meds that don't work, and see how much weight he's lost by the next appt.

[batgirl]

I have euthanized a pet in the past with severe IBD. It's not quite cancer, where it's clearly a terminal disease, and can often be managed with meds and diet; but it can also be a debilitating disease that affects quality of life. It seems to me this is more than 'the pet is puking and I'm sick of cleaning it up' and the OP is really concerned about quality of life; it's a gray area. I do get that you are a conscientious owner. I don't think this thread would have blown up if it hadn't somehow turned into 'I'm pregnant and I don't want to deal anymore', which I don't think you are trying to say. IMO. Then it got off on a broader tangent but people are still reading it as directed at them...it's getting confusing.
This is how I feel. Exactly. Thank you.


<Mod hat on> I know this is an emotional issue for everyone, but I think it's getting to the point where people on both sides are over-reading things and making assumptions that just aren't there. Pretty much everyone in the pets forum likes animals. I'm not going to threaten locking the thread, but I am going to gently suggest maybe taking a break from the thread if you (general you) are having trouble separating the broad issues being discussed from the individual situations presented.
I have seriously been considering asking for this thread to be locked. Maybe it should be...??

MLA I truly do respect your opinion. But you commented something like "he's basically healthy, just annoying." To me, its more than that. Granted he is annoying, but so are the other two when they wake us up at 5am for food. I just disagree about his health status. He is not healthy. He is actually starting to look bad. Losing weight, and now he's losing hair. The years of puking are finally starting to take their toll. But its not just because he's annoying.

birdfeet I agree with much of what you posted, except this comment

I hope that in all of these replies that the OP has at least learned something about owning an animal.
I am a very good, responsible pet owner. This cat is 12 years old. Our other two are 10 and 6. We are not new to pet ownership. I know some of you (many of you?) may disagree, and I don't want to give a list to try to justify myself, but just know that all three cats are extremely well cared for. We just are really struggling with the medical issues of one of them right now...

nooblet thanks! No, so far nothing has worked. We are very glad he's on pepcid now (which is a new med for him). I'm sure he must have been quite uncomfortable because of acid reflux. We haven't noticed him acting differently, but he must be more comfortable.

Boy, I can't keep up. I need to get back to work... back later.

[batgirl]

Now, to Batgirl, you are in a tough spot. Were I in your shoes, I would stick it out with the cat. The baby will be fine, and your DH will appreciate it.
I'm pretty sure this is what we'll do. I have definitely eased up on DH. My constant harping was doing no good.


I genuinely wish you and your pet, and you soon to be baby, the best possible outcome.
Thank you.


I do note that it has been almost 30 days since your first post, and I do hope that if the situation is as dire as you portray, that you do get the cat in to see the vet sooner rather than later, to discuss the treatment options and medicines suggested by posters, as you indicated that you wished to do so.
God, it seems like much longer than that...

As far as getting him to see the vet... he was recently at the vet (I posted the update in this thread). I can assure you he is not being medically neglected. He's been there 3x this year and will be going back for a weight check in a few weeks.

[bird_feet]

I am a very good, responsible pet owner. This cat is 12 years old. Our other two are 10 and 6. We are not new to pet ownership. I know some of you (many of you?) may disagree, and I don't want to give a list to try to justify myself, but just know that all three cats are extremely well cared for. We just are really struggling with the medical issues of one of them right now...

My comment about learning wasn't to imply that you didn't know anything about owning a pet. I'm hoping that you learned of some additional ways to help your cat and that if in the end it comes to your not being able to keep the cat that you'll consider an option that does not require the cat to be put down.

[PG-rated]

I've been following along, but haven't posted, mainly because I was waiting for the inevitable blowup and to see if things would calm down afterwards. :)

Anyway, the weight loss is the thing that I focused on from the beginning, and that's what would tip the scales on "quality of life" for me. It's very hard for animals to express pain, and such a severe weight loss would suggest to me that this isn't just an "annoyance" from the cat's POV. If the cat continues to lose weight, I think it would be more humane to put him down then to let him waste away to nothing.

I'm sorry you're going through this, and I think you've been working very hard to do what's best for your pet.

[yby1]

Our dog has inflammatory bowel disease and used to throw up like 10-12 times a day. She's much butter now, but still has her moments. We actually "trained" her to throw up in the same area (bathroom w/ puppy pee pee pads). I know you can't really do that with a cat, but as long you keep everything covered up and clean the floors daily, you should be fine. We just had a baby in March and everything has bee working out so far. If you put baby on the floor, just put a clean sheet underneath them if your afraid of the germs. Try to leave the door to the nursery closed at all times so your kitty won't go in there.

It will work out. :)

[greenbunny]

Maybe jesvet can weigh in, but I could swear reading somewhere that cat's digestive tracts are quite different from human ones and vomiting isn't the same type of miserable experience for them as it is for us. Obviously it isn't something to celebrate, but IIRC they are partially built to do that, for example to eliminate furballs (the way an owl brings up pellets--it doesn't hurt the owl, it's supposed to happen).

Weight loss, though, is an issue. But then, maybe the weight loss and vomiting are both symptoms of another condition, rather than one being the cause of the other.

batgirl, if there was someone who would be willing to take this cat, would you consider giving him up? Maybe those of us with rescue networks could send out some feelers.

[MLA]

MLA I truly do respect your opinion. But you commented something like "he's basically healthy, just annoying." To me, its more than that. Granted he is annoying, but so are the other two when they wake us up at 5am for food. I just disagree about his health status. He is not healthy. He is actually starting to look bad. Losing weight, and now he's losing hair. The years of puking are finally starting to take their toll. But its not just because he's annoying.

You're right. That was unfair, as I realize you've written about his weight loss. Unfortunately your posts came across (at least originally) as though you were concerned almost entirely with the unappealing effects of the copious puking. If he's losing as much weight as you indicate, then I think that there must be some sort of medical problem. I feel really bad for him. I can't imagine puking that much. It just has to suck.

I see also that you've looked into the no kill shelter. Good for you for doing that. I'd like to reiterate my suggestion of confining him to one room of the house if the vomiting starts to push you over the edge again. I understand being frustrated -- one of my cats has become more and more vocal as he's aged and there are times that I simply can't get him to stop yowling. I understand the frustration of not being able to do anything. Just remember that this cat is your responsibility and shouldn't have to die if his quality of life is okay (again, not sure that it is since he's losing lots of weight).

By the way, I don't think I've said congratulations for your soon to be baby. How exciting!

[wendalah]

I am confused and a bit lost. When did the cat start to look unhealthy? At the very beginning of the thread you wrote,


One of the reasons this is so hard is because the cat looks so healthy and happy. He is a great weight, so obviously enough food must pass to provide him with the nutrients he needs, and he is a very happy cat. If he looked sick, or acted sick, it would be much easier.

[batgirl]

Thanks everyone. I do appreciate the responses. Actually things have been better. When I first posted this thread I was beyond frustrated. I wanted to put him down but didn't have the heart to do it. He is a very sweet cat and DH loves him dearly.

Things have calmed down and I don't really know why. Don't get me wrong, he is still puking. A lot. But for some reason I am better able to deal with it. Maybe it really was hormones and such, cause now the main thing I am stressing about is the coming baby. Of course I know that I can have a baby and pets. I had lots of pets as a kid, and am thankful I did.

Now this thread did take on a pretty nasty swing. I know many of the posts weren't directed towards me, but I didn't want people to think this was just about the baby and not wanting the inconvenience anymore. Its not the case.

I think I'm going to bow out of this thread for a while (its taking up so much time and I laid in bed worrying about it last night). I'll still read the posts, but won't be posting as much.

I do want to comment on wendalah's post, though, since its relevant and I don't want people thinking I'm making this up so that I won't feel bad putting him down...

I am confused and a bit lost. When did the cat start to look unhealthy? At the very beginning of the thread you wrote,

Quote:
One of the reasons this is so hard is because the cat looks so healthy and happy. He is a great weight, so obviously enough food must pass to provide him with the nutrients he needs, and he is a very happy cat. If he looked sick, or acted sick, it would be much easier.

He still acts very happy, and not sick at all. He's always purring and sleeping in close proximity to us. His habits haven't changed (maybe sleeps a bit more, but he is 12). And yes, when I posted the above quote, I didn't notice any weight loss (he's always been around 15lbs and has the big "pouch" that is typical of male castrated cats). DH kept saying that he looked thinner, but I didn't notice it and kept thinking DH was seeing things (he also thinks our "fat boy" looks thinner, too, but he's always 17lbs, I know its too much, and he's on a diet). Both DH and I were completely surprised when he was weighed at the vet and he had lost 3lbs since his last vet visit earlier this year. He has never dropped weight due to puking. Dh commented again last night that he looks even thinner. Maybe its because we are aware of it, but no, I never did notice his weight loss before. His hair is something very recent (last 2 weeks or so), and maybe its just seasonal. So it might have nothing to do with any illness. I think I posted about it just because I don't feel he is a "healthy" cat and was trying to provide evidence. We'll keep an eye on it and mention it to the vet when we go for his weight check this fall.

So, yeah, I see how its confusing... I'm still surprised at the weight loss (he still eats fine). Regardless, I think we have decided not to do anything. He has another full vet check up in January (unless he needs to go sooner) and we will reassess things then. Until then, we'll just continue as we have been... lots of puke cleaner, keeping things covered, etc.

Thanks everyone.

[PG-rated]

She's much butter now, but still has her moments. We actually "trained" her to throw up in the same area (bathroom w/ puppy pee pee pads).
Oh, I meant to mention this in my other post - we had a difficult time with our cat throwing up a lot for awhile (we eventually figured out it was the food), and we were able to "train" her to throw up on a newspaper or scrap paper that we would hold in front of her, provided we got to her when we first heard her retching. We never tried to designate an area for her, but I don't think that would be out of the question, since many cats are trainable. Of course, this would probably require more effort than you're willing to put in right now, with an impending birth.

[almostthere]

Most people really do not understand the issues with IBD - we had a st. Bernard who was sick with this and vomited/had diarrhea regularly throughout the house. After thousands of $$ in testing we discovered his stomach was lined with tiny pinprick ulcers causing him to be in alot of pain. We spent 100 a month on his drugs and another 80 on a special vet sold only diet of venison and potato. We were happy to due so if his quality of life seemed fine. We would get everything under control and then we would have a flare - my issues was not the clean up in the end thought but the pain he was in caused him to act out aggressively.

We had originally trained him, and then had a new behaviorist work with us, finally after 3 attempted and 2 actual bites we had to put him down. We had an 8 months old in the house and it was not safe. The problem is no shelter would take him and there was no way they would pay for his medicine and diet. It was a last resort and to this day breaks my heart. An IBD animal is very different then other sick animal as their quality of life is often severely compromised.

We in no way traded our pet for our child as also have an allergic cat that we care for and have for 12 years but are able to keep her quality of life good and have since had a new dog who is 15 month old bernese mountain dog who we adore.

I am telling you want is right and wrong but at some point even if your cat looks or acts healthy are they if they are sick 2-4 times a day.

[tirams]

I would get a second opinion. Has she been tested for achalasia? I've heard of successful study treating animals that have achalasia with acupuncture, tough it can be cured with surgery.

[batgirl]

Hi Ladies,

I just wanted to post one more comment on this thread before I leave CC. This thread really was my downfall. I wish I had never posted it. It has always bothered me. It sucked, really.

But, since so many of you came away from this thread thinking I was (am?) a terrible person, that I had made up my mind what I wanted to do for so long before posting, well, I thought I would post an update.

The puking cat went to live with my Brother and sister in law in another state. My DH flew him out there when we was going for a visit and didn't bring him home. This was in February. They took very good care of him and didn't seem to mind his daily pukings. They even laughed when they agreed that he throws up in the worst locations (beds, pillows, drapes, etc).

About 6 wks ago he started going downhill. Swiftly. The vet thought it was organ failure, but didn't know why. After many days at the vet, it was discovered he had FIP. They think he probably contracted it as a kitten. He died about two weeks ago.

Anway, thought you guys might want an update.

[jesvet]

Oh, that is so sad. I'm sorry to hear that. FIP sucks.

[jajacobsen]

I am glad that you and your DH could find a solution that entailed a loving home until "the end." I am glad the cat is now at peace.

[pocket]

Ah yes, now I remember you. If you ever have another pet, I hope you don't go back to this vet. Clearly not good at diagnostics. Enjoy your YAGE.

[MLA]

I'm glad that your kitty passed in a loving home.

[jesvet]

Well, to be totally fair FIP is only definitely diagnosed post-mortem in 99% of the cases, so an exceptional vet can miss that one. It's a very unusual presentation for this disease the way it's been described. Just so you all don't go running to your vet next time your pet pukes up a hairball and ask for an "FIP test".

[/off topic]

[sdianems]

Ah, batgirl, I am so sorry for both of your losses...but it does sound like your cat had a good life both with you and with your brother. How wonderful that he was able to find a loving home later in life (not easy for senior pets) and with you when he was younger.
You certainly had a challenging situation and not everyone here would be quick to judge or think the worst of you.

[ysolde]

I am so sorry to hear that your cat passed. It sounds like you and DH found a solution you could all find peace with, and your cat was happy throughout his life.

[wendalah]

Hmph, I forgot about this thread.

After re-reading it, I just want to be self-righteous and let everyone know--my (human) baby is due in 10 weeks and we have no plans to get rid of the dogs. Even though one of them pees in the house when he's feeling lazy.

[Weddings by]

Is that your little plastic dog who is lazy or one of the others?

:D

[wendalah]

Is that your little plastic dog who is lazy or one of the others?

He's rubber! I keep telling you.

BTW, do they make toy dogs that pee-pee? Like Betsy Wetsy-type guys?

[Weddings by]

He's rubber! I keep telling you.

:p I have such a great memory. But this time it was better--I didn't say "ceramic." :D

[artist]

Is that your little plastic dog who is lazy or one of the others?

:D

If he's so lazy, why does she need a dog walker for him?


He's rubber! I keep telling you.

BTW, do they make toy dogs that pee-pee? Like Betsy Wetsy-type guys?

No offense Wendy, but how can you put a rubber dog to sleep? :confused:

[NotDesperate]

Someone may have suggested this, but what about only feeding him once a day. Then will you have more of an idea of when he will be sick? Maybe you could keep an eye on him then or put him in the bathroom just for a couple hours.... Or buy one of those giant cat cages for him to go in just for during and after he eats?

[jesvet]

NotDesperate-

Who are you taling to? The cat died and the OP YAGEd!