Teaching Not to Whine

[karlatta]

I come in search of some parenting advice.

I am trying to teach my 8 year old foster DD how to ask for things politely rather than whining to try to get her way, and I'm having a terrible time getting through.

Our problem is that when she wants something, instead of simply asking for it, she whines about not having it. I guess in hopes that we'll feel sorry for her and give it to her. Her whines can be about anything - what she wants for dinner, who will read her bedtime story, etc. It's really frustrating, and I'm not sure how to go about handling it.

Example: Tonight we were getting ready for bed and instead of DD asking me if I would read her bedtime story to her, she turned to me and whined (all while pouting and looking at the floor), "I guess you're not going to read me a bedtime story tonight." Any time she wants anything, even if we've given no indication that she won't get it (like tonight - I was helping her get ready for bed - she had no reason to think I wouldn't read to her - she gets read to every night), this is how she goes about "asking" for it.

We've tried talking about the difference between whining and asking politely. When she whines for something, we require her to ask politely (and then we tell her yes or no, depending on what she's asking for). But nothing's changing. She is a very melancholy, withdrawn child, and this behavior goes along with several other things we see (refuses to speak when upset, often communicates in grunts and groans, etc.).

I know I can't expect a miracle change overnight in her behavior, but I'd like to come up with at least a plan of attack for teaching her that whining is unacceptable and is not the way to go about getting her way. I'm a brand new mom (she's been with us for three weeks), so I'd appreciate any advice, as simple or elementary as it may sound.

Thanks!

[Winter Biscuit]

My DD is only 2.5 but your thread caught my eye. I don't know if this will help or work (especially with an 8 year old) but I'll throw it out anyway. I read/head that when a child starts whining, the parent should immediately, yet calmly, say, "I can't understand you when you whine. Can you please talk in your normal voice so I can understand you? I can't help you if I can't understand what you need." In other words, ignore the whine yet try to nip it in the bud right away by telling them calmly that you can't understand them when they speak that way, and don't respond to whatever they are whining about until they repeat their request or statement in a normal voice. Then praise them for asking/speaking without whining.

My 2.5 has whined a few times and we try this, but it hasn't really sunk in yet. And agian, I am certainly no expert.

Good luck. I think it is so admirable that you are a foster parent :)

[karlatta]

That's a great idea. It's exactly how we deal with her talking with her mouth full, and we've seen a lot of improvement there. Thanks!

[linda_loo]

I know she whines about a lot of stuff, but if there are things that you could plan ahead on, maybe that would help. Starting off small, you could get a calendar and sit down on Sunday evening and write on each day, including the name of who will read books on which night... and what the menu is for the week (subject to last minute changes, of course).

It would probably be nice for her to think ahead a little (and I guess, even just know that the plan is for her to be *there* for the next 7 days - - - I am assuming that she hasn't been able to look ahead very much in her life) and at least she knows what to expect every day.

Oh, and I really admire you taking a foster child as well. You must have a very big heart.

[Renrel]

Another mom of a 2.5 year old, so take anything I say with a grain of salt.

Just wanted to make sure you have made sure she understands specificly what you mean by "whining." That when you expained differenece between polite and whine you used the word whine and both gave examples and an explaination. What is obvious to us in not always obvious to a child.

Also playacting a bit might help, either together or with dolls, so she can practice using her polite voice and hear you use your whiny voice to help her both understand what whining is, how to speak politely and why it is not good to whine.

ITA with Winter bisket on being sure to praise her when she uses her polite voice. Catching her being good.

I would guess, not knowing any details, that your daughter probable did not have the most attentive care givers prior to joining your family. She may not have gotten heard or attended to if she did not whine or take some other action to get an adults attention. Unfortunately it can be easy to ignore a child who will ask politely and wait patiently for what the ask for while completing a task, converstation or whatever. Children will therefore find more effective methods to get attention. Once these effective methods/habits are learned it is hard work to unlearn them. They say it takes about 3 weeks of active practice to develope a new habit.

Maybe a reward chart could be useful where she gets stickers for either going a day without whining or a sticker everytime she asks politely. Every x number of stickers she gets some reward - a trip to the park, a later bedtime, she gets to pick dinner, whatever works. This provides not only motivation but a visual image of her progress to give her confidence and faith in herself.

[karlatta]

Linda - We have a calendar outside her bedroom door where we track all kinds of stuff for her - doctor's appointments, activities, play dates, etc. We also have a calendar in the kitchen where we plan upcoming meals. So it's not like she's surprised about what's coming up. I might have created some sort of bias about the situations which bring up this whining by using the bedtime whine as an example. It happens with everything that DD wants - from what color of towel she wants to use after her bath, to what game she wants to play during our afternoon play time, to anything.

[karlatta]

Renrel - I *think* I adequately explained the difference (by role-playing and example) between whining and being polite, but the next time it comes up, I'll try again.

[maxandmolly]

For a "typical, average kid" I'd say you've gotten some good advice. BUT-Is it possible that her whining-only approach to things has to do with the way things are/were with mom at home? Like, that was the only surefire way to get her mom's attention-type thing? I would try to pry a bit into her life w/mom to see if there an explanation for her behavior. Once you get her talking about it, the behavior may start to self-correct.

[Camdynlyn]

Let's see, I deal with this age group every day (I have 22 3rd graders) so I know what you mean by whining. Like others have said, I will say, "I cannot understand you when you whine and you need to speak to me like I'm speaking to you" or "You need to speak in a regular voice." It usually works. If they start back again after I've asked them, I'll say, "Can you repeat that again in a normal voice, I annot understand you."

She may be doing it for attention so you will need to break the habit. It also sounds like she's pretty schedule oriented so you've got a good thing going with the calendars.

Something I also use (this may not be the case with you), is not to whine and be 'greedy/picky' about things. For example, if I'm giving a treat (candy or pencil or eraser, etc) for good behavior in my classroom, my kids KNOW not to ask for a different color/flavor. I've taught them that they don't have to be rewarded with a prize and it's something extra they've earned. If they do not like what I'm giving them OR if they ask for a different color/flavor, I simply take it back and put it back in the basket. Very simple and breaks the habit quickly. My kids know not to ask for a reward because that's not polite. Sidenote: They won our 3rd grade kickball tournament last week and one of my girls said, "I don't think there's going to be a trophy or reward for winning but I think the real prize is the satisfaction of winning... like Mrs. S always tells us!" She really got the right idea! It should be the satisfaction of the thing and not 'what do I get?'

[Renrel]

Karlatta - I mentioned the "Defining" bit just because I remember reading an article about displineing or something where the story was told of the Mom who was going through all the different method, bribes, temper loss ect and finally after her daughter agreed not to whine she turned around and asked "mommy, what IS whining?" So I always suggest starting with the most fundimental possible problem, before moving on. That you and your child both at least understand each other.

[linda_loo]

oooh, I forgot the other big thing, positive reinforcement... make sure to praise her when she asks for something w/o whining.

[Renrel]

Just an idea on the positive reinforcment thing. Given that her whining habit seems to be pretty ingrained, and thus harder to break, you *might* want to concider giving her more than she asked for when she does ask in a totally nice appropropriate manner, for just a little while, to help her realize the benefits of behaving properly -ie people like it and you more when you are pleasant to listen too and are thus are more likely to give you what you want. For example if she asks for her bedtime story properly you might say something like "OOO, I like how nicely you asked me. Yes I would love to read you a story, in fact I would like to read two of them, if you would like that. I would not recommend doing this long term, but sometime over doing something a bit to get some momentum going can help. Depends on your kid and your style.

[linda_loo]

I disagree with that a little... it sets up a precendent that one may not be able to keep up.

[Renrel]

Linda - I can definately see where it could cause a problem, and you are certainly more of an expert on both teaching and this age than I. I just threw it out there as a suggestion since different things work for different children. I would think for some children/people getting over the hump of that initial change and being able to see some progress may be vital to making a change. For other having the incentive removed at a later point might be tramatic and backfire the whole idea. Sort of like how losing a lot of weight right away or going down a dress size will help some people get into the habit of eatting better or exercising long term, for others when they platue (sp) they give up. But this is just my off the cuff sense, not based an educated opinion. You have actually not only dealt with kids this age, but studied how to teach them. I have not, so your opinion should certain carry more weight here.

[Sarah]

When my DD whines sometimes I ignore her.

Sometimes I take away the thing she wanted, if she's really being obnoxious. Like if she goes, "Mooooom! I want a STOR-EYYYYY" and complains and whines, then oops, she lost the story for tonight. It's hardass, but it works. I will tell her she lost the thing she wanted, and if she asks nicely, she'll get it. My kid is pretty willful/spirited, and this has the most immediate effect.

Also just not hearing her until she says it nicely.

Being silly, whining back at her. Like saying "oh, DD! I waaant you to beehaaaaaaaave" and sort of making the behavior a joke. Sometimes works, but it can backfire. Use with caution. :)

[princesse]

What a terrific thing you are doing for this little girl..... how long has she been in the foster system? Remember that manipulation=survival for theses guys and whining is her form of manipulation right now. Didn't she say something like, "I guess you're not going to read me a story tonite"... That is classic guilt trip 101. Her being withdrawn and melancholy goes hand in hand with what she probably been through with the foster system and her birth family as well. I am guessing that there has been some kind of abuse, unfortunately.

All of the suggestions that the other posters have had have been good ones. I was going to respond with "I can't hear you when you use that tone of voice". Knowing she is a foster child makes me rethink a little bit though. Just a little bit. I'm sure that you have laid out totally clear expectations with the kids. Like "hey babe, whining is absolutely not how we get what we want in this house and if you happen to forget I'm going to remind you ok?" Then using options like "I can't hear you when you..." and being consistent will work. Like you said it won't happen overnight.

I'm sure this chicka has been through the ringer. Many foster children are far more sophisticated than thier years would indicate in their ability to socially manipulate their situations. Like I said, it is survival for them. Good luck, you are an angel!

[eponymous]

BUT-Is it possible that her whining-only approach to things has to do with the way things are/were with mom at home? Like, that was the only surefire way to get her mom's attention-type thing? I would try to pry a bit into her life w/mom to see if there an explanation for her behavior..

I grew up with a mentally ill, abusive mother, and this sort of emotional blackmail - which is what it strikes me as being, more than whining - was the only way to get anything. If I asked for (dinner) (a ride to a friend's house) (to be allowed to wash my own clothes) in a typical manner, I would not be allowed to do it. To this day, I tend to use the sort of phrasing that you're quoting your DD as using, although I don't use a "whiny" tone of voice. Anyway, just want to throw out there that this behavior may very well be related to her biological parents' behavior, and that the sorts of responses that one would use with children that one has seen everyday of their lives might make things much worse...

[princesse]

kitlyn.......wow, word sista. you are totally right. it just goes to show you how totally unique every situation is. we can just give blanket statements based on our own experiences huh? you brought such a totally different perspective. i wll remember things like that when the kids come back this year..... thanks.

[JRPAGV]

Bump...

I have a friend who is going through something similar with his soon-to-be 7 year old DD. Would love any suggestions/insight/advice.