Breastfeeding Help and Support

[BTB]

Helpful Links for Quick Tips and Getting Started:
Dr. Sears' BFing Webpage (http://www.askdrsears.com/html/2/T020100.asp)
http://www.kellymom.com/
The Getting Started Board from Mothering.com (http://mothering.com/discussions/forumdisplay.php?s=&# 38;forumid=27)
Info from the Great Dr. Jack Newman (http://www.breastfeeding online.com/newman.shtml)
Promom.org (http://www.promom.org/)
The Notorious LLL (La Leche League) (http://www.lalecheleague.org/bfinfo.html)
Ignore the name... the Militant Breastfeeding Cult (http://www.militantbreastfeedingcult.com/index_a.html)
Page on What Medications are "Safe" While BFing (http://www.kellymom.com/health/meds/index.html)

Good Books for the BFing Mom:
"The Womanly Art of BFing" by LLL (general reference, can be preachy)
"So That's What They're For!" by Janet Tamaro (funny, light read)
"The Ultimate Breastfeeding Book of Answers" by Jack Newman (good information, presented clearly, and by a wonderful doctor)
"The Breastfeeding Book" by William and Martha Sears (can be a bit simplistic for women with serious BFing issues, but generally very informative)
"Nursing Mother, Working Mother" (as the title says, it's for the working mom)
"Mothering Multiples: Breastfeeding and Caring for Twins or More"
"Mothering Your Nursing Toddler" (for Extended Nursing)
"Adventures in Tandem Nursing: Breastfeeding During Pregnancy and Beyond)
"Breastfeeding the Adopted Baby"
"The Nursing Mother's Companion" by Kathleen Huggins, R.N.,M.S. (thanks, Sheryl!)

Nursing Holds:
This site has both pictures and a narrative description of some different holds (http://www.breastfeeding.com/helpme/helpme_images_posi tioning.html)
Here's One On Nursing Twins, which is totally doable, by the way (but very hard and admirable!) (http://www.breastfeeding.com/helpme/helpme_images_twin s.html)

The Correct Latch On:
Here's a Pic to Help (http://www.breastfeeding.com/helpme/helpme_images_latc hon.html)
Basically, the baby's mouth should as be as open as possible and he should have both his upper and bottom lip "out," not tucked in, if that makes sense. Make sure your baby is supported by pillows, a sling, or a Boppy. You do not want to be leaning forward or hunching. You could hurt your back or strain your shoulders. You want as much areola in baby's mouth as possible. If the baby just sucks on your nipple and not the darker part of the areola, your nipples can crack and the baby will not get enough milk. To delatch, slip your finger in the baby's mouth and break the suction before pulling him away.

You may feel some pain, but it shouldn't be excruciating. That probably signifies something wrong, be it thrush, a plugged duct, a bad latch, or something else.

Leaking:
Leaking, for MOST women, goes away by three or four months PP. Until then, invest in good nursing pads. If you suddenly stop feeing full around 3-6 months, don't worry (necessarily), you probably just feel your body adjusting to your baby's needs.

Plugged Duct:
Characterized by deep pain in the breast, and a red bump or pimple like thing (technical term). This is frequently a precursor to mastitis. To help, nurse as much as possible. Try different positions so the baby can drain all the different ducts. Warm compresses/showers will help drain the breast. Massage the area as yo nurse to unplug the duct. Try pumping after nursing if the baby isn't too hungry. If white clumps or pus or blood comes out, don't freak, it's okay. The baby can still drink this milk, as long as there is only a little blood. Get a lot of rest.

Mastitis:
Characterized by flu symptoms, such as fever, fatigue, vomiting, chills, etc. The breast is sometimes red, warm or hot, and extremely painful. Can happen when you skip feedings or wean too quickly. The breast does not drain fully, engorgement happens and an infection develops. Treatment is antibiotics. Nurse as frequently as possible, though it will probably hurt. Draining the milk is good for the infection. If you cannot nurse, then pump if possible. Drink lots of water and take OTC pain relievers and antiinflammatories, such as Ibuprofen. Try not to wear anything that will restrict the breast, such as tight bras or underwire bras. Warm showers will help get the milk flowing out of the breast, and cold packs will relieve swelling and pain.

Thrush:
Is a yeast infection of the breast and of the baby's mouth. On your baby, it will look like white patches on the tongue that persist after a feeding and that are not easily scraped off. In your breasts, it feels like a deep burning pain. It is frequently accompanied by stinging in the nipples and persistent pain. It is usually treated by a combination of Nystatin, Diflucan, and other prescriptions. If you would rather use something more natural, Gentian Violet and vinegar are good, too. When you have thrush, you should try to avoid sugar and yeast in your diet, as well as caffiene.

Low Supply (or suspected low supply)
The truth is, somewhere between 95-97% of women can physically produce breastmilk to feed their children. Of course there are other viable reasons for not BFing, such as psychological/sexual trauma, discomfort with the idea of BFing, etc. Those women who cannot BF should be treated with respect and kindness. One's commitment to Bfing should not be questioned if she says she had low supply.
Most cases of suspected low supply in new moms are just normal variations in how much milk is produced in the newborn period. As the baby settles into a bit more of a routine, the breasts produce more or less milk to suit the child's suckling patterns and nutritionl needs. If your newborn (<4 months) is acting very huingry and fussy when offered the breast, the solution is not to offer EBM or Formula. The child is sucking more to increase your supply to meet his needs. If you do not let him suck, he will not improve your supply, and both of you will be in a cycle of needing to use formula to thrive. Try as hard as possible to not offer formula (if you are commited to BFing, I mean), as it will almost certainly be destructive to the BFing relationship.
link on supply (http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/faq/milksupply.html)

Nipple Confusion:
Introducing a bottle too early can cause nipple confusion. The baby can get much more milk faster from a bottle, and so if a bottle is given before BFing is well established, he might lose his desire or ability to suck from the breast. This is not a rare occurance. The prevalence of unnecessary supplementation in hospitals greatly adds to this problem.

Jaundice:
The best thing for normal jaundice is a lot of BFing. It may be difficult if your baby is under lights or the bili blanket, but it is good for the baby. Remember that it is your baby, and the nurses cannot tell you what to do. Insist that yor baby be taken out every three hours to nurse. Offer supplementation only after nursing, if you decide with the pediatrician that it really is necessary. Ask more than one doctor. Peds are very quick to offer supplementation just to make it easier on them and the nurses, but in minor cases of jaundice, it's not necessary. Your milk is almost always good enough.

High Palate or "Bubble" Palate
If you are experiencing persistent, mysterious nursing pain (mine feels "grating" and abrasive/pinching) and have been checked for proper latch and thrush, please have an LC assess your baby's mouth to check for palate problems (and also a tight frenulum, under the tongue). The roof of your baby's mouth should feel approximately similar to the back of a teaspoon in terms of its shape and how high its arch is. If the arch is unusually high or goes way up and then slants sharply down again (bubble), it can make nursing very painful, because the baby cannot draw the nipple back far enough back to hit the "soft palate." Many babies do outgrow this problem, some as early as 8 weeks and others not till 6 months or beyond. There are different holds you can use, but basically you will need to concentrate on getting a HUGE amount of breast into baby's mouth, which may spare your nipple. It is best to change the holds you use frequently so that you "spread around" the abrasion to your nipple.

High arches and bubble palates can also cause Reynaud's Syndrome, a condition where your nipples react very painfully to cold and frequently blanch or turn purple.

Here is some information. There is not a lot out there, unfortunately.

http://mother-2-mother.com/nipplepain.htm#HighPalate
http://mother-2-mother.com/nipplepain.htm#HighPalate
Originally posted by CarolC

Biting:
Biting (http://www.weddingchannel.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+ com.wc.Utility.NavBarForStatic Html?sendTheseFields=category& #38;location=http://emerald2.weddingchannel.com/WC2/LocalBus inesses/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi &category=10&frmSectio n=none)
Teeth and Biting (http://www.weddingchanne l.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+ com.wc.Utility.NavBarForStatic Html?sendTheseFields=category& #38;location=http://emerald2.w eddingchannel.com/WC2/LocalBus inesses/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi &category=10&frmSectio n=none)

Post Partum AF While Nursing
AF can come back at any time while nursing. Generally, your AF will come back much later than a FFing mom's, but you never know. My AF returned when my DD was 5 or 6 weeks old. Many women on the boards haven't had her for 13 or 14 months. Some women go two or three years without AF. USe BC unless you are okay with an "oops."
AF may be heavier or lighter than before. Symptoms such as cramps and headache are typically better, PP, but it depends on the woman. It usually takes at least 2 or 3 cycles after birth for your cycles to regulate.

[BTB]

Books to Generally Avoid, If You Want to BF Successfully
Anything by Ezzo (babywise) (http://www.breastfeeding.com/reading_room/ezzo.html)
The "Baby Whisperer" Series
The "What to Expect" Series
(I am not referring to any part of these books except the BFing parts. I make no comment on the non BFing parts. They might be great books otherwise. As with any book, pick and choose the parts you like and don't like)

Links for Advocacy Clothing:
Breast or Bust (http://www.breastorbust.com)
Wavin Baby Designs (http://www.wavinbaby.com)

Politics, Controversial Issues, and BFing/Activism:
How to Be a Three Minute Activist (http://www.promom.org/3min/index.htm)
Should I give my baby a vitamin D supplement? (http://www.kellymom.com/ nutrition/vitamins/vitamin-d.html)
The free gifts (http://www.breastfeeding online.com/free.shtml) given by formula companies, and how they effect BFing.
National Center for BFing Advocacy (http://www.naba-breastfeeding.org/)
Breastfeeding Education in K-12 Schools (http://www.health.state.ny.us/nysdoh/b_feed/index.htm)
The controversy over
the marketing of BM substitutes (http://www.i-case.com/newdemo/inffeed/) (this is why I and many other boycott Nestle).

BC for the Nursing Mama
Generally, the nursing mama should use barrier methods, FAM, LAM, progesterone only birth control pills, copper IUD, or some mixture of the above for reliable BC. Nursing is not reliable birth control on its own. Many women become pg while nursing, and you have no way of knowing whether you are ovulating yet. The hormones in regular BCP are harmful to nursing- they contain estrogen, which can lower milk supply.
The mini-pill is the most common option, but it is not foolproof. It must be taken at the same time every day, and it has a lower failure rate than the regular pill. At least 3 women on this board have become pg while using it.
Drinking and BFing
Obviously, use your judgement. I don't want to hear about y'all going to Keg parties, okay?
You can drink while BFing. About 4-5% of all alcohol you drink will go into your BM. So if you drink a glass of wine (around 10% alcohol), only a teensy tiny bit of it goes into baby. It's like 1/200 if the volume of the glas of wine itself, really. I have asked 3 or 4 pediatricians, and they all say it absolutely harmless, and you can safely have up to 2 glasses a night. A third glass (which they don't recommend, and neither do I, but just in case) will only make the baby sleepy.
To minimize how much gets into the baby, you should know that 90 mins after consuming the drink, the concentration of alcohol in the breastmilk peaks. So if you wait 2 or 3 hours, the concentration is already dropping and is probably below perceptable levels.
Again, do not get drunk.

Gentle/Child-led Weaning:
There are a lot of schools of thought on weaning, which is a deeply emotional and personal decision. The AAP recommends nursing for a minimum of one year, and the World Health Organization and CDC recommend two years minimum.
The LLL's policy on weaning (if initiated by mother) is "don't offer, don't refuse." Generally, you do just that; you never offer the breast and don't say no when the baby asks. This might not work for some kids, who ask all the time anyway.
Many believe in "child-led" weaning, usually meaning that the mother will continue to BF as long as the child so desires. This can be wonderful for some nursing couples, but is difficult for many mothers to do, either practically or emotionally. Most childre, if left alone, will nurse beteen 4-5 years. If you choose to nurse this long, know that it's normal and fine, you are not strange!
LLL's book "How Weaning Happens" is tremendously helpful. Usually a mother tries to cut out nursing sessions one by one, over a period of weeks or even months. Many mothers find that it happens very quickly, and that as soon as they start cutting one session out, the rest quickly follow. It depends on the child.
If you wean after 6-8 months, you don't need to wean to a bottle. A sippy is fine for formula or whole milk. Once a child is past one, whole milk (not 1 or 2%) should be offered after weaning, as it has the proper amount of cholesterol for appropriate brain development. If you are nursing after one year but would like to give the baby milk when you are gone, you can either pump or give the baby milk. Cow's milk, rice milk, and soy milk are all good options, but consult your doctor about the fat, calories, and nutrients in these milks. Soy and Rice milk tend to be lower in fat and cholesterol, and you might want to give them some high fat foods with the milk if you are concerned about weight gain.

Breasts After Weaning (http://www.weddingchannel.com/cgi-bin/gx.cgi/AppLogic+ com.wc.Utility.NavBarForStatic Html?sendTheseFields=category& #38;location=http://emerald2.w eddingchannel.com/WC2/LocalBus inesses/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi &category=10&frmSection=none)

Where to Buy Nursing Bras: Note, these are not reviewed. I can't vouch for all of them, I've only used a few and heard good things about the others. If you have a good or a bad experience with any of them, or other bras, please post and I'll add a short review of the bra.

Bravado Bras (http://www.bravadodesigns.com/)
Medela Bras (http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/seambraspant.html)
Leading Lady (http://www.mothersmilkboutique.com:/index.php?page=cat alog&manid=103&PHPSESSID=2fdbe55655aa01ac019fccce10bb4ec8)
Motherwear (http://www.motherwear.com/main.asp)

[BTB]

Misc Links:
This page (http://www.breastfeeding.com/helpme/helpme_common_ques .html#18)is great for questions we haven't answered, or if no one is able to answer your specific question.
Wonderful Handouts You Can Print and Hand to Nosy Relatives and Friends! (http://www.kellymom.com/handouts/index.html)
This is a great handout to print and hang up, for those tough times when you are looking hungrily at that bottle of formula.
101 Reasons to Breastfeed You Child (http://www.promom.org/101/index.html)
Breastfeeding Statistics (http://www.kellymom.com/writings/bf-numbers.html)
Watch Your Language! an interesting and informative piece on how our language about BFing influences our behaviors and policies. (http://www.bobrow.net/kimberly/birth/BFLanguage.html)
Jack Newman's Piece on Breastfeeding and Guilt in FFing Moms (http://www.kellymom.com/newman/bf_and_guilt_01-00.html)
A link for
finding an LC near you (http://www.breastfeeding.com/directory/lcdirectory.html)
Very Useful for Working Mothers (http://www.breastfeeding.com/workingmom.shtml)
Responding to criticism (http://www.lalecheleague.org/NB/NBJulAug99p116.html)
Some amusing answers to "are you still breastfeeding!? (http://www.rosenbaumcre ative.com/responses.html)
And some other sample answers:
"I respect your opinion and value your advice, but I have thought this out carefully and done a lot of research, and my mind is made up. I will be happy to respect your opinion and listen to what you have to say (away from baby), but you have to respect my decision--and it is MY decision."

"As the mother of this baby, and because of all I've learned about the importance of breastfeeding, in my heart of hearts this is what I want - and need - to do for my child right now. If you love us both, you need to support me in this decision."

"This is what works for our family. Unless it becomes a problem, we're not going to change anything." Case closed (save the arguments for people who are truly interested in your reasons).
"We're working on weaning now." Once solids are introduced, you're technically in the process of weaning- though it may take a few years.

[to your mom] "It's not that I resent you for not breastfeeding me - I don't. You made the decision that was right for you and your baby (me). I am making the decision that is right for us."
"You know how the medical community is always changing their recommendations. Well, this is what they recommend now, and it may change again in another few years, but the information that is out there now is the best I have to go on, and I feel good about breastfeeding."

"Now that I've become a mom, I have a new appreciation for what you went through for me, and I'm so thankful to be able to come to you for advice. It especially helps to know that you're going to support me in my decision to breastfeed, because that means so much to me."

The "sandwich" technique sometimes works:
Say something complimentary first: "I'm so glad you are here to be with my children; Having a loving grandma like you is so important; You are such a wonderful grandma, just like I knew you would be."
then make the point you are trying to make: "It really upsets me when you criticize my choice and my pediatrician's recommendation to breastfeed to the degree that I feel I might start to avoid visiting with you."
then say something nice again: "That would make me sad because I know you love the children and I want them to have you in their life because you are so special."

"Why would I want to replace nursing with something that costs money and is nutritionally and immunologically inferior?" This one is not so tactful, so think about who you're talking to before you use it.

"That's interesting. What makes you think that?"

"I'm parenting the way that feels right to me."

Some More Great Links:

Dr. Jay Gordon on Extended Nursing (http://www.drjaygordon.com/links/BF/extended.htm)
Babycenter on EN (http://www.babycenter.com/refcap/toddler/toddlerbreast feed/8496.html)
World Health Organization on BFing (http://www.who.int/child-adolescent-health/NUTRITION/i nfant_exclusive.htm)
The AAP on Nursing... "the child is at increased risk of illness if weaned before age 2" (http://www.aafp.org/x6633.xml)
How Long Are Our Bodies and Children Designed to Nurse? (http://www.prairienet.org/laleche/detwean.html)
AAP Recommends Exclusive BFing for at least 6 months (http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0822/10_101/800989 97/p1/article.jhtml)

[BTB]

part 3 of cut/paste (sounds weird to number them - bumping up against some rules in the software about posting the exact same characters again)

[BTB]

part 4 of cut/paste

[BTB]

part 5 of cut/paste (can't just put "part 5" either, has to be at least 10 characters) :p

[BTB]

Thanks to the WC's new format, it's not just a simple cut/paste - there's lots of spaces randomly interjected into the links. I combed through what I could, I'm sure lots of them are still not working, but all the bugs will be worked out ASAP. :)

All Sarah's wonderful introductory info is there, but some of it's in a different order than before, to fit as much into each post as possible without going over the character limit I switched around a few longer/shorter sections.

Huge thanks, BTW, to Sarah and all the other Bfing gurus; I hope many will join us. :D

Post away!

[maggieb]

Ooooohh, thank you so much for setting this up. All of Sarah's info on WC was so helpful with DD#1. So glad to see it over here too! I know I'll be around soon. ;)

[deliciousjones]

Thanks for setting this up!!! And major thanks to Sarah/newmommy for migrating over here! :)

[Toonces]

Thank you for setting this up! This site is similar to the Mothering.com format - much better than the new WC.

[lorialys]

Thanks for setting this up! I'm excited to learn all I can before October, from you ladies. :D

[moderngal]

thanks for getting all of newmommy's info here. :) it's so helpful!!

[emschwar]

subscribing! Thanks for setting this up!

[jenji]

thanks for getting this thread started. Saturday DH and I went to a used bookstore in town and I bought my first BFing book! I've only read the first chapter so far, but I'm excited... of course I won't get to use it for another 2 years, but that's ok, I'll be well prepared :D

[ShannonGH]

Thanks so much BTB for setting this thread up. I'm not even pg yet but this thread on the WC had so much info that I'm glad it's now all over here. I'm sure it's been a lot of work so THANK YOU!

[Tenny]

Thanks for setting this up!

I'm just subscribing!

[marchfamily]

Well, today marks my PP/AF. My supply has completely dipped. Normally I wake up full and leaking. Today I had to feed from both breasts. Any advice going forward? P.S. E is still biting like crazy - ouch!

[maggieb]

marchfamily: Just keep at it. Although I only had 2 pp periods, my supply dipped around that time. I tried to nurse DD a little more often if she'd let me. I think I also started pumping after her am nursing session to try and up my supply at that time. good luck and let us know how it goes.

Maggie

[Tenny]

marchfamily Sorry I can't offer any advise, but I hope you can work through this!

I posted this in the getting to know each other thread and I thought you ladies would get a kick out of it over here. I got this shirt/onsie at Motherhood!

[maggieb]

Those are the best t-shirts I've seen in a long time. I saw your pic last night on the other thread and had to show my DH. :D

[Marisa]

march - this should be only temporary -- I've only had 3 PP AF's so far, but each time there was about 24 hours where I felt "spent". Picked up again after that first day or so. :)

[lorialys]

Tenny Adorable shirt/onesie!!

[Sarah]

Yeah- the first few AFs will make you tired and cause supply to dip. Mine went back to normal after a few weeks.

BTB- Shoot, if I had known you wanted to copy that info, I could have editted my old posts to give it to you, so you wouldn't have had to mess with the formatting. Sorry!

Hope I can be of some help. I am psyched to BF my newborn in a few weeks!

[basketcase]

Anyone know what can suddenly cause nipple pain during BF (for an extended BFer)?

It's only on the right side. Started yesterday with a small plugged duct which I got unplugged within a few hours. Now my right nipple hurts like hell when he nurses, almost to the point where I can't nurse. I don't think it's his latch 'cause we've been doing this for 14 months now and I'm pretty sure we have the hang of it. ;) No white patches, no bleeding, just a little redness. Oh yeah, and no new teeth (that I know of).

Any ideas of what can help? Please??

[moderngal]

I've been taking Fenugreek to help increase my supply while I'm pumping at work. Now DS is having green poops- not yellowy-green, I mean green like the color of grass green. Any chance that the fenugreek is making the poop green? DS is sleeping, eating, and wetting fine- and cuter than ever, so I don't think he's sick or anything.

Also, how long should I take the fenugreek? My supply seems better now.

[Dally]

I'm so glad to see this thread has migrated over to CC. :)

Tenny--cute shirt!

Fenugreek--I'm taking this too and wondering how long to do it for. DD seems unaffected, although possibly more gassy. Not sure.

Happy news--After slowly decreasing DD's supplements over the past six weeks, she's been exclusively BF'd for more than 48 hours now! :) Of course, she spends hours at a time on the boob, but whatever works. lol.

[Mickey&B]

Subscribing I am sure I will be spending a lot of time over here when DS is born!

Teeny Thoose are just the cutest shirts/onesies I have ever seen. :D

[Marisa]

Fem - it could still be thrush, albeit a mild case if you aren't showing any other symptoms. Try taking probiotics (acidophilus) or eating yogurt with active cultures in the next day or so, see if your symptoms subside...

mg - Although green poop can sometimes be a sign of a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance (if you really have kicked your supply into high gear), I think that if all other signs point to a happy, healthy and cute baby :D.... it's really nothing to worry about. Dr. Jay Gordon even says that sometimes he feels like telling his patients to wear sunglasses, *that* will solve the problem of what color the poop is. Seriously, though, as long as it's not red (bloody) or mucousy, it's probably fine.

Dally - you can take it as long as you feel you need it, you can taper off if you feel like your supply is where you'd like it to be.

[diedra1027]

Femmie - Could it be thrush? It's not unusual for just one side to be effected. The pain and redness are the symptoms that would make me suspect thrush. eta...yeah..what Marisa said!

Congrats Dally!!!

[cynder]

Great to see you all here!

So update on my sleepy breastfeeder is that he is still a sleepy eater after weeks. I tried BFing nonstop for 2 days but all he would really do is sleep on my breast. After decreasing supplements and increasing BFing last week, we had a less than ideal weigh in where DS was avg. 1/2 oz a day for a grand total of 6 lb 10 oz by week 5. We went back to 1 oz supplements of EBM and formula and took out one BFing feeding at night for a 4 oz bottle of formula. One of the upsides of this is that DS is sleeping like a angel from 12- 4:30/5:00. The other upside is that after 7 days of this he gained 13 oz for a total of 7 lb 10 oz. Relief! I am not proud of doing supplements but I was really starting to worry about his weight gain and head circumference levels.

I go back to work in a month and I have no freezer supply. I am giving all my pumped milk to my supplements. I know this is a vicious cycle but at this point, my guy is just too lazy of an eater to rely completely of BFing and I don't know if I am ready to exclusively pump. I do enjoy the contact of nursing esp. those feeds when he nurses well. Any thoughts on what I should do when I go back to work?

[duke's flygirl]

I'm so happy to see this thread over here!

Subscribing!

Question about Lily Padz...anyone used them? I asked this on the other site, but I'm not sure who was still checking it.

I am going to a wedding in just over a week, and noticed when I put on my top for the wedding, that my Gerber Ultra Thin's show through. I have tried the Johnston's pads, but they are just so thick.

TIA

Joelle

[bombedier]

Do any of you BFing Mom's have the glamourmom tank? If so, what is your opinion? My BB got huge with this pregnancy - 34DD/E - and I wondered if you thought it would provide me with enough support.

Thanks in advance for your advice!
http://www.glamourmom.com/images/main_pic_1new.jpg

[Marisa]

Sorry Joelle, I haven't tried them. I do like the Lansinoh pads, though... they seemed much thinner than all the rest I tried.


bombedier -- I bought a Glamourmom tank, but wound up turning right around and selling it on the Mothering trading post. No way was that supporting these girls (34 E or F, currently). :)

I wound up buying a nursing tank at Target, in a size 2 XL I think. It's the same kind of design but about $16 instead of $40. I took in the sides and straps to make it fit better and be more supportive (but I really did need the extra material in the bust).

[bombedier]

Thanks for the advice Marisa - sounds like we have the same size....I'll check out Target for sure!!!

[duke's flygirl]

They don't sell the Lansinoh Pads here...at least not where I have seen. I may have to check on-line to see if they sell them here. They do sell the cream here, so you would think they would sell the pads. UGH! THANKS Marisa!

[Jessie]

Joelle- I just got some Lily Padz last week. I really like them. I don't use them everyday but when I do use them I like them a lot. I leak like crazy but I don't leak when I use the Lily Padz. It's been HEAVEN not having to wear a bra at night.

[Dreshny]

Subscribing...

Quickly, since Asher just woke up, I've had major nipple pain and bleeding from my right nipple since the first time I tried to feed DS. It's just gotten worse and worse. Marisa (hi there!) suggested a nipple shield, which I've been using since yesterday, but so far there's been no major improvement, though the bleeding seems to have stopped.

Unfortunately, there is now suddenly a tiny pink bump on the left nipple, which hurts like heck when I nurse on the left. It looks like the beginning of what happened to my raw right nipple, but maybe it's something else.

I'd really hate to use the nipple shield on both breasts...

[duke's flygirl]

Just got back from Grocery shopping, and I found the Lansinoh Pads, I will give them a try this time. Thanks for the suggestions. I may still end up with the Lily Padz for swimming though, but I wanted to ask before I shelled out $40.00Cdn for them.

Thanks!

[Jessie]

Joelle- I got my Lily Padz from an Ebay seller named littlepickleenterprises she sells them NIB for 13.95. Shipping to Canada is only 3.50.

[ButterflyJen]

Just subscribin' :) and saying hi to everyone. Tenny - that shirt and onesie are hilarious!

[December27JJB]

Subscribing! (Thank you BTB for starting this thread)

I just had a baby 2 1/2 weeks ago. When she was born she had a great latch, even the breastfeeding nurses (or whatever you call them) were surprised with how good her latch was. The day I left the hospital, I got so engorged and it freaked out the breastfeeding nurse. She brought in a pump and told me to pump some of the milk out. DD was sleeping at the boob a lot, she would feed for short period of time then she'd fall asleep. Ok, this nurse tells me I better pump or I'll get a fever. My mom hears this and freaks out and buys me a pump. I go home and start pumping when I get so engorged. This week, I havent pumped much because I havent been too engorged. The baby is eating for longer period of time and more often. I dont know if my milk supply is running low? When DD is done eating she has milk all over her mouth. I drink lots of water and eat oatmeal everyday but I dont get engorged anymore. Is this normal? Or am I drying up?

DD was born 6 lbs 6.2 oz but it went down to like 5 lbs 11 oz after she was born and last week at her ped. appointment she was back up to 6 lbs 11 oz. The doctor said he was pleased with her weight gain...but this was last week (when my supply was good) Now I am worried I am not producing enough milk. I am too afraid to pump because DD gulps so much when she drinks and gets gassy, giving her milk from a bottle makes it worse. I prefer to give it to her straight from the boob. Could anyone please let me know if its normal not to be engorged and still have enough milk? DD doesnt fuss much, other than when she wakes up hungry...I'm all confused.

I am so sorry for this post. I am just a worried new mom! I thank you in advance!!!! :)

-Jessica

[diedra1027]

Jessica - I'm sure the experts will jump in, but it's completely normal for the engorgment to go away as your body regulates your supply to your baby's demand. You actually don't want to keep pumping to relieve engorgement (unless your BBs are so engorged that baby has a hard time latching on) because it signals your body to make even more milk. It sounds like everything is going really well for you..just keep feeding baby on demand!

[BTB]

Jess, it's totally normal to stop being engorged! It doesn't mean your milk is drying up at all. On the contrary, it means your body is adjusting to it's new function and is getting better at it and making the correct amount of milk. :)

It's also normal for babies your daughter's age to spend more time at the breast, that first week or two babes are so sleepy that they don't feed for long. As they get a wee bit older and can stay awake longer, they feed longer. I was surprised by just how much time it took to nurse DD in those early weeks, between 2-8 weeks she'd easily take an hour to eat, every three hours; that's 8 hours per day, a full-time job! Rest assured when babes get older they become more efficient at nursing so feeds don't take as long, and they space them out more as their little tummies grow and can hold more milk, so you won't always feel like you're nursing all day, all night. :)

It might help keep your DD from gulping milk to feed her a bit earlier, so she's not so enthusiastic and getting so much air - what cues are you using for hunger? Some babes are just gulpers, so it may not help to shorten the interval; it's just a thought.

It sounds like you're doing great! Kudos to you! :D

P.S. (not to Jess, but to anybody/everybody) thanks for the thanks, but I can't take any credit for starting the thread, only for transferring it. Newmommy/Sarah did all the work. :)

[Marisa]

Jessica, I just wanted to chime in and say that ITA with Diedra and BTB!! :)

And wow, it's typical for a breastfed baby to be just back to birthweight by the 2 week visit, so good for you guys that she was that -- and then some!! :D

[December27JJB]

;) Thank you Diedra1027, BTB, and Marisa !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I appreciate your help! I was just worried that because my boobs didnt feel 'full' I wasnt producing enough milk. I certainly wont pump anymore unless I need to store milk for something! lol I kept pumping and wondering why my boobs would fill up so fast. And I would wake up so engorged and leaking, I'd have to wake up DD and she'd fall right back asleep on the boob! It was so frustrating! I am just glad to know that this is normal!!

Another question for you all:

How long do you plan on breastfeeding? My SIL breastfeeds her 2 1/2 year old (and she has a 6 month old?) and everyone is like "She's crazy" but I do know there are a lot of benefits from being breastfed. I am thinking maybe I'll feed for 1 year?

Again, thank you all so much for replying to my post!!! ;)

[Sarah]

December-
ITA with the other ladies- it's totally normal. You're not supposed to be engorged for more than a week or so, tops. After that you start to adjust, and feel less overflowing. As long as the weight gain is good (and it sounds great!), she is pooping and peeing plenty, and she has milk in her mouth, everything sounds fabulous!

As for your QOTD, I nursed my daughter until she was almost 3- I think she was about 32 months? I plan on nursing this next baby for somewhere between 2 and 3 years, but I reserve the right to change that plan if things are working out differently. I don't think I personally would ever wean a child before two years old, but that's just me. I am glad you would like to BF for a year- a lot of research shows that it does your baby (and you!) a ton of good! And it seems to be working out so well already.

[Marisa]

Jessica -- I have kind of the same attitude about it as Sarah. I wouldn't wean Joey before he was two... but after that we'll see how it goes. I like the idea of child-led weaning, but I reserve the right to change my mind if unforeseen circumstances arise.

I'm not planning to TTC again until he's around three, anyway (AF came back at 14 mos. PP so I know I'm fertile again)... I know that some women find nursing uncomfortable during pregnancy, and some babies wean naturally around the middle of a pregnancy when mama's milk supply drops or when the milk changes back into colostrum.

ITA with Sarah, it's great that your goal is a year! That means that you can skip using formula entirely, since most babies can tolerate some whole milk after a year. Don't feel bad if you decide to set smaller goals than that, though... I remember on the 'hard' days it was more like, "Let's make it through this week!" Ah, those were the days... :D

[Lydia]

Reposted from WC:

I started taking fenugreek a few days ago and my supply is huge now but my sweat stinks, as does my pee. Anyone else experience this?

Sorry for the TMI...

[BTB]

Beantown: (or should I call you Lydia? I'm so used to BB) :) I've never taken fenugreek, but on a theoretical basis that's totally normal. The breast is a modified sweat gland, and fenugreek is a sweat gland stimulant. If your other sweat glands (besides the breasts) are working overtime too, things could get a little odiferous. ;)

As for the stinky urine, it contains extra solute now, so it might have a different odor, even a bit darker color. But two things can happen at once, so if you have low abdominal pain, urgency (gotta run to the bathroom!) frequency (peeing all the dang time) or dysuria (man it stings to pee!) I wouldn't blame it all on the fenugreek - at that point it sounds like a UTI.

[SiValleySteph]

Lydia,
I've heard that fenugreek makes you smell like maple syrup. So if you have to smell, at least you'll smell good!??! :p

[Lydia]

It smells more like celery to me. Ew!

[amtaylor]

I just wanted to join... I'll need all the help I can get come October. I've signed up for a Breastfeeding class at my hospital and am hoping it will help.... I'm so clueless!

[bluhimmy]

DS is about 10.5 months old. Recently, I've been questioning his BM intake, whether or not he's getting enough. We have a long BFing session in the morning. The remainder of the day, it's 2-3 super short BFing session. He's also getting solids 3 times a day (breakfast, lunch, dinner).
I'm just worried he's not getting enough. Since his demand seems to have decreased, I'm worried that my BM production will drop below what he should be gettting. Is this normal for a baby at his age?

On another note: I have found these bras to be way more comfortable than any of my current nursing bras.

http://www.spanx.com/pls/enetrixp/object_utils.display_object?id=696819&dummy=0

It's called Bra-llelujah! made by Spanx. It doesn't offer super support, but neither does my non-underwire nursing bras either. But it does the job and it's super comfortable to wear. Just thought I'll share. :)


Edited to add: I started out as a B cup girl, and grew into a D. Now, I'm moving down to a C. So I probably don't need as much support as some of you ladies.

[jenji]

so who has a supportive nursing bra? I am currently a 34DD and no where near being PG, so I'm sure they will be in need of even more support come a BFing baby. I'd love to know which nursing bras are great for nursing and for support.

[SiValleySteph]

Lydia, Okay, celerey smell doesn't sound too good. :p

bluhimmy, Thanks for posting that bra. I am in desperate need of some new ones. Do you think it would give enough coverage over a nursing pad?

I'm nursing a 9 month old and our nursing sounds similar to your sons, only he gets his good nursing session in before bed and then 2 times overnight/in the AM approx. It was driving me crazy last weekend b/c I could not get him to nurse during the day and I was getting lumpy. :o I pump and send bottles to daycare for him during the week, so I know he's drinking quite a bit at those times (16oz a day). I'm not sure what to tell you, just commisserating!!

***

Speaking of nursing pads, I wasn't wearing any today (dumb me) and had a major wet spot (like from the breast all the way down to the bottom of my shirt) in the AM and then a smaller one at lunch. :eek: Luckily, my blouse is a plaid, so it wasn't too obvious (I hope!). My supply crashed on Mon-Tues due to illness, so I didn't think I needed any. Yeah! Let me rethink that! In good news, I'm back to pumping a reasonable amount, but still not up to the last couple weeks amazing milk production I was having. So moral of the story... don't go cold turkey on breast pads (even if your baby is 9mo old) when you're in a situation where potential leaking could be embarassing. :D

[Marisa]

Amber - welcome! :) If you ask me, you're doing the right thing by lining up all kinds of different support options now. BFing may be natural, but it's a learned behavior -- most women do need to have someone there to 'hold their hands' and reassure them, at least, in the beginning. Have you found a LLL group yet? Every group is different, but my local group is so great... I wish I'd started going before Joey was born! :)

Blu - I think that's pretty normal. He's way too busy to think about nursing these days, and at 10 mos. he's big and strong enough to get plenty of milk with these little short sessions. Is he still nursing at night at all? My DS is famous for 'forgetting' to nurse all day long and then wanting to tank up at night... :rolleyes:

jenji - my favorite nursing bra is by Leading Lady, it's an all-cotton underwire style. I've bought several over the last year or so, my size has changed a bit as I lost weight and stopped being engorged all the time. I think my largest one was a 38H!!! But I'm back to a 34DD or 34F now.

I didn't start wearing underwires for a couple of months PP though -- if they don't fit right for some reason, the wire can press against you and cause a plugged duct or something. Until then I wore a Bravado around the house and to sleep, and a Leading Lady cotton softcup bra for outings.

Steph - I totally did the same thing, only it was when Joey was around 6 months old, I think. I went for a day or two without pads at home and thought I was all set... until I went out with Joey for the afternoon of course. Luckily I was only at Sarah's house, she's too nice to make fun of me and my wet t-shirt! :)

[BTB]

jenji: I'm an F cup, and have Medela nursing bras. They're plenty supportive, without feeling like a tank (the army kind, not the strappy summer kind). ;)

[Sarah]

Lydia- Smelling bad on fenugreek is normal. I had kind of a maple syrup-ey smell, but anything is probably normal. Means it's working!

Jenji- ITA, I think medela ones are awesome.

Blu- My DD did the same thing at that age, I think a lot of kids do. Just try to sit down a couple of times a day in a quiet spot, maybe in a dark cool room, and focus on relaxing together. I think maybe reading a book and snuggling, and then trying to work in a good nursing session helps a lot. But if he's just excited and doesn't want to slow down, it's fine. As long as the weight is normal and he's hitting his milestones, I wouldn't worry.

[jenji]

Thanks Marisa and BTB
I've still got so much to learn

[bluhimmy]

Steph - Mmmm... not sure about the coverage over nursing pads. I stopped using them a month ago. I know some of my nursing bras were on the thin side, so depending on the nursing pads I used, some were more noticeable than others. Spanx have a great return policy so if they don't work, you can return no problem.

Marisa & Sarah - Thanks for the reassurance. DS is at a good weight, very healthy looking boy, and hitting his milestone. So no need to worry, right? :)

[moderngal]

Lydia I smell like fenugreek these days, too. I can't tell what the smell is, but it certainly isn't maple syrup.

weaning- I never really thought about it. No one I know IRL breasfed, so I don't have a ton of support to keep at it. Although when I went to buy my fenugreek, the man that sold it to me gave me a lecture on extended nursing- the benefits, etc. After that, I started thinking about it- still not sure, but I'd like to go a year and then I think anything after that will be a bonus. I suppose we'll see.

[marchfamily]

My nipples are peeling - round the base of the nipple. Anyone else have this? They are a bit sensative, but otherwise, no other problems.

[happy1nuv]

Hello,
Can you overfeed a b/f baby?

Nic is 6 weeks old... was over is birth weight at his 2 week appt, was right on the curve for is 1 month at 9 lbs. Last night, I fed him at 5-ish (I feed him as much as he wants from one side at a time... changing sides every 3 hours... he spit up way more when we timed it and switched sides midfeed)... Anyway, fed him at 5-ish, he was fussy at 6:30, so put him back on for 1/2 hr and he fell asleep on the boob round 7. DH and I were running out - when i gave him to my mom to babysit, he woke up screaming... so my mom gave him a bottle of ebm ... he ended up drnking 4 1/2 oz in an 1 1/2 hr timeframe while we were gone... when we got home, he had again just fallen asleep (maybe 10-20 min) ... woke up fussing from transfer, so we went to bed... where he ate AGAIN til he fell asleep... and then slept 6 hours...til I woke up cause my bbs hurt.

He had a great day yesterday... slept/awake a few/good nap cycle til mom came over... do u think he was just exta hungry tha night? Or did we stuff him too full? DH thinks that I'm not making enough milk... since I've left him twice now and both times I;ll feed him, then leave... he gets a bunch of ebm, and then sleeps fo a good 5-6 hrs at night, when his usual is 3-4....

Any ideas what is going on? And is there any way toup my supply around the 6-7pm timeframe?

Thanks!

[SiValleySteph]

weaning - I have no idea when we'll wean. My motto is if it ain't broke, don't fix it. We're at 9 months here and don't have any plans to wean in the near future. That said, I WOH M-F and I want to wean off the pumping at 1 year. I'd actually like to cut back to 2 pumpings a day instead of 3 in another month or so and then cut it out all together around a year. I don't know how this will affect my supply for evening/weekend, so we'll have to see how it goes after that.

happy1nuv, I don't think it's possible to overfeed a BF baby. And don't let your DH tell you you aren't making enough milk (IMO this isn't all that suportive of breastfeeding). One thing I just read in one of my parenting books that maybe you could try (if you want), is to pump every morning when your milk supply is highest and use that milk to supplement before bed. One of the experts can pipe in on whether or not this is a good idea.

[Sarah]

It's pretty hard, perhaps impossible, to overfeed a BF baby. But I think you could overfeed BM through a bottle, since it's much easier to get BM out of a bottle than out of breasts. It sounds like your little guy is okay, though, and just needed some comfort while you were gone. Most BF babies will take a bottle even if they're not hungry, because it's not self-regulating. I think he's fine, maybe having a growth spurt or something.

[diedra1027]

happy1 - As Sarah mentioned, I was going to suggest that your baby may be comfort nursing in the evening (and/or when you are gone). My babe is a HUGE comfort nurser especially at night. I've actually worried a little about whether she's being overfed too. I've recently paid more attention and I notice that the comfort suck is different from an eating suck - while she is getting some milk while comfort nursing it really isn't the same as when she is eating. I don't know where you fall on the pacifier debate, but you might try offering him a pacifier instead of the bottle of EBM.

weaning - I'm going to one year and playing it by ear from there. We definitely want to have another baby and since it took us 2 years to get pg the first time we're afraid to wait too long to TTC again. One of my fertility issues was high prolactin (and it was just barely higher than normal), so I feel that there is a very good chance that my fertility will not return as long as I am nursing.

[HGMorgann]

happy Morgann comfort nursed until about 8-10 weeks old. She would nurse basically all evening long. (Started doing this at about 2 weeks) Also 6 weeks is when they hit a growth spurt and nurse ALOT to up your supply. I bet you are making more than enough milk, so dont let that be a concern. :) Oh you also said your baby ate all evening and then slept 6 hours. My little one did that too - she tanked up all evening and then slept soundly for 6-10 hours starting at 3 weeks. My ped said that was awesome and to let her continue to do what we were doing!

[happy1nuv]

HG ~ So, you went for long stetches like that every night? Did it affect your supply at all? (When he does do the occasional long stretch, that thought always crosses my mind... cant help it)

[HGMorgann]

Morgann just started tanking up every night before bed - literally she BF from like 6-10 or 11 p.m. Then she would just sleep sleep sleep.
I never had supply issues. Morgann just wanted to eat more at night, so we let her. The first couple nights when she slept all night, I woke up engorged and woke her up to feed her. That is the amazing thing about breast feeding, it adjusts to how the baby eats. We nurse on demand, btw, so some days it could be every 2 hours which can be up to 10 feedings, or every 3-4 hours which can be only 5 feedings.

Your kiddo could just be kinda like Mo. wanting to tank up and then sleep for a long stretch. Mo. barely napped during the day though up until she was 3 mo. Honestly, I worried in the beginning that I was BF her too much throughout the day. Some days she would eat like every hour and half. I knew I was making milk just fine, but I thought I was creating bad habits. She would just cry and cry in the evenings unless I was nursing her. So I started nursing her basically all evening long. I went into nursing and motherhood thinking we would nurse on a schedule. (alot of my friends did this), but we could never get one to work and have a happy baby. So I thankfully finally ditched all those expecations, fed the baby when she wanted to eat, and we are all happy. She did outgrow eating every 2 hours and all evening long. She eats maybe 6-7 times a day, sometimes less, sometimes a lot more (today for one!) I just quit worrying and went with the flow. It has been an awesome experience since.

Ok I am writing a novel about my BF experience. Maybe I read your post wrong, but you seemed to be have the same concerns I had in the beginning. anyways, hope that helps. If not, i hope i didnt bore you with our nursing saga;-) take care!

[happy1nuv]

HG ~ Not bored AT ALL... it was really good to hear, actually. :D Nic seems very similar to your Morgann, except for last night when he was up EVERY hour... :confused: Oh well... he's an expert at fooling me into thinking I have things down pat, then changing the rules...

Thanks!!!

[Lydia]

Where can I find a height/weight chart of percentiles for BF babies? I keep forgetting to ask the pedi and I just want to know for my own sake...

ETA: Nevermind...I found it!
Chart for Breastfed Girls (http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/growth/chart3.html)

Chart for Breastfed Boys (http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/growth/chart2.html)

Here's another one... (http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/growth/chart1.html)

[happy1nuv]

I hink I might be coming down with something (cold maybe) ... Can I b/f thru it? Or do I need to use formula while I pump/dump?

thanks

[moderngal]

happy1nuv you can BF through a cold. the antibodies in your milk can help prevent your baby from getting sick, too. :)

[Dreshny]

Anyone else have a baby like this? My DS has an extremely forceful suck. I couldn't figure out why feeding him hurt so much or why my breasts burned from the nipple all the way to the chest wall between feedings. It's becoming apparent that it's just the force of his suck: the other night DH passed him to me in the dark, and he tried to latch onto my upper chest. From literally less than 10 seconds of sucking, he drew a dark purple hickey.

I realize it sounds funny, but I'm having problems with very sore nipples, blisters, and mangled skin.

My mom says I need to hang on until he's 3 months old and the problem should resolve itself because he'll suck for a much shorter period of time (right now, he's on me for about half an hour at each feeding.)

I know that breastfeeding is supposed to be pleasant, but it just hasn't been my experience. I've nursed DS for 5 weeks now, and it's nearly always painful, both during and after. Plus, he spits up my blood after being on my right nipple, which is the more damaged one. The nipple shield is slowly helping to heal that nipple, but it's still not comfortable for me, even with the shield.

Has anyone else experienced this or heard of it? I'm committed to nursing him for at least a year, but I have moments when I don't even think I can get through another day. Please tell me this gets better.

[Candy]

It's great to see this thread over here.

BFing is still going strong. 4.5 month! WOOHOOHOO :)

I forgot who asked the question about bright green poops, but DD had that once for 2 days and it stopped. I didn't take Fenugreek. Who knows what caused it though.

[Sarah]

Dreshny-
I am so sorry you are dealing with painful nursing and damaged nipples. Ouch! It does sound like your baby has a strong suck, and I agree with your mom- that as he gets more used to nursing and becomes more efficient, the nipple damage should subside. I don't think that just a strong suck would cause nipple damage, though. Even sucking hard, it shouldn't cause bloody nipples or lacerations. Have you checked his latch recently? Sounds more like a bad latch than a too-strong suck.

Marisa might have more info on this, though. Maybe she's talked to moms with babies with really strong sucks.

I am sure if you hang in there, it will get better. If you need the shield to get you through the tough times, I would keep using it. Better to have to use the shield than to wean prematurely, IMO.

Hugs! I know it's hard.

[Marisa]

Roseanne, I'm sorry you're still struggling. FWIW it took me about 6 weeks of using the shield to really feel like I was back to "normal" for the most part... and after that I still used it on occasion for another couple of weeks. Since I didn't get the shield until he was about 3 weeks old, it took until he was close to 3 months to be completely done with it. It was the most frustrating thing, at the time, to be "chained" to the shield, but with the perspective now of having healed and gotten through it, I can say that it really did "save" us from BFing hell.

You made mention of a burning pain in between feedings, I wonder if you have a mild case of thrush (on top of everything else, I know :rolleyes: :( ) It's just that you've been under some stress, your system is run-down dealing with recovery plus difficult breastfeeding challenges. If you're not already taking probiotics (acidophilus) you might consider it, just in a "cover all bases" kind of way. It couldn't hurt. (2 caps, 3 times a day, while you're exhibiting symptoms... regularly 1-2 caps, once a day)

[ahavnes]

Another Question (cross-post from the WC)
After 5.5 weeks, my DD is trying something new. She latches on great and feeds until the letdown is over. Then she pops off to be burped. The problem is that she won't latch back on, even though she's obviously hungry. She opens her mouth and puts it to my nipple, but won't suck! :confused: I either have to give her my finger to suck on or switch breasts. It's very frustrating to me, although it doesn't seem to bother her too much. Any idea what this is about???

Thanks!

[Dally]

I have red mark on my breast that is tender to the touch. It's about an inch long and half an inch wide and it's been there about 36 hours. I'm worried it's a plugged duct. Anyone have experience with plugged ducts? How can I make sure it doesn't get infected?

TIA!

[ce_Kathleen]

ahavnes My DS did the same thing for a while, I would just switch boobs and keep switching back and forth until DS was full. It only lasted a few days (maybe a week) and then things went back to normal. Since it didn't bother DS I figured I would just go with the flow and see if it passed.

Dally I am sorry I have no personal experience with redness or plugged ducts. Hopefully someone else will be able to help you.

My question is about weaning. My DS is 10.5 months old and we are only nursing morning and evening (2-3 times per day) but suddenly the past 2 days DS doesn't want to nurse in the morning but is still nursing in the evenings. I try to nurse him as soon as he gets up (our normal routine) but he doesn't want to nurse he wants to crawl around and play. So I go shower and get ready for work and then try again and still no dice. After I leave for work my DH will try to give DS a sippy with formula and he takes that no prob.

So I guess, my question is, is DS starting to wean our morning feeding? I am going to continue to offer in the morning but is there something else I should be doing? I was planning on weaning just after DS turned 1 so if this is a weaning of our morning session I guess I won't be too heartbroken.

[diedra1027]

I have red mark on my breast that is tender to the touch. It's about an inch long and half an inch wide and it's been there about 36 hours. I'm worried it's a plugged duct. Anyone have experience with plugged ducts? How can I make sure it doesn't get infected? Dally - I had a plugged duct early on. I used massage in the shower, but what finally cleared it up for me was using breast compressions. Here (http://www.kellymom.com/newman/15breast_compression.html) is the article that describes how to do it properly.

[happy1nuv]

I have no clue if this is the right place to ask this, but for the past day and a half... ds won't sleep alone. Usual routine is that he'll fall asleep while nursing and then he'll sleep for anywhere between 30 min - 2 1/2 hours ... now, if i take him off the boob, he MAY sleep 5 minutes. He'll sleep longer if I keep him on the boob... (its not that he's still eating... he'll occasionally gum the boob, but i think it more like he's checkng to make sure its still there...) Anyone go through someting like this? Or have any ideas what is going on? He's 7 weeks old today.. Oh... and, he sleeps on me, so its not like im trying to put him down (although before this started, we were trying to get him to at least nap on his own ... but we were only doing that for one nap a day ... we started that on sat...) He started doing this sleep with boob thing on tues morning straight thru til now.. and can i just whine and say im tireed!!! (that felt good to type :)) thwnks

[wendstress]

EBM Storage Bags..... An idea for you all.

On the job, I use lots of "Whirl-Paks" for sample collection and analysis. They are available in a variety of shapes and sizes, and aren't too expensive. It occurred to me that they'd be great for storing EBM. at 9 cents a piece, they are much cheaper than the Medela bags that I had been using.

I got the 4-ounce write-on product. You can buy 100 bags for $9.35, or 500 bags for $37.35 (+S&H).

Here's a link if you are interested (hit refresh if it doesn't display immediately):
http://www.enasco.com/prod/ProductDetail?sku=B01062(A)WA&title=Whirl-Pak+Sampling+Products

They are sterile, and freezable. I've been using them and are very happy with them!

And, from their own website:
Whirl-Pak® bags work extremely well for storing and freezing breast milk. The 4-oz., 120-ml write-on bag and the 7-oz., 210-ml plain bag are compatible with various breast pumps. There is nothing safer than a sterile Whirl-Pak® bag for storing this important infant nourishment.

[AttyGrl74]

*just me subscribing and happy about nursing at almost 10 months*

[Koala_Gurl]

Subscribing!

[Daniel's Kitty]

Stupid preggo question.
What can someone do about sore nipples? I have been putting a little bit of baby oil gel on them and it helps, but one of them feels like it has been rubbed by sand paper. This started yesterday, and I have never felt this before.
They get irritated so much easier, especially since hubby thinks it is fun to grab them since they leak. :o
I hope someone has advice.

[Marisa]

What can someone do about sore nipples?


Lansinoh - purified lanolin ointment. It soothes and moisturizes, it's pretty inexpensive (5-6 bucks at Target) and one tube will last you through a whole mess of kids. (One mom at my LLL group isn't nursing anymore, she says she uses hers for lip balm now. :))

[Koala_Gurl]

...(One mom at my LLL group isn't nursing anymore, she says she uses hers for lip balm now. :))

LOL! I use mine for lip balm too! :)

[Daniel's Kitty]

Thanks!!! I hope it helps!
I hope it gets better before my little boy gets here or I will be miserable and I won't last very long with the bfing thing. I would rather have them start out fine and see if they get sore after that.

[abbylynn]

I just have a quick question. Is it possible to get mastitis when DS is almost 2 years old? My right breast is really painful right now. I've never had any breastfeeding problems in the past but DS and I have been sick since Friday and he has been nursing a lot more than usual. Before we were sick we were down to one daily feeding after naps and a lot at night after midnight. I am really worn out from being sick and trying to care for a sick toddler (I seem to be worse than DS) and the 90+ temperatures aren't helping any. DH has been less than helpful because he is working so much (ironically, at a hospital where he would probably give me more attention if I was one of his patients).

ETA: On the green poop. I've noticed that if I (or DS now that he's on solids) have blue corn chips like at a restaurant he gets green poop.

[Marisa]

Abby - It's possible at any time - mastitis is just your standard staph infection (typically), and it can strike any lactating woman. (Actually, it can affect anyone, but it's more common in breastfeeding moms.)

If it is mastitis, it's probably due to the bacteria in your environment (from you and DS being sick), and from you not being 100%. Try warm, moist heat and ibuprofen for the pain, and as much rest as possible. The increased nursing is actually a good thing, in this situation, as it keeps your breasts emptied -- less chance of engorgement/plugged ducts. Can you guys manage to spend the day/morning/afternoon just lying around tomorrow, watching movies or reading books or something? It sounds like you need a break! :)

ETA -- Dr. Sears has a good page on mastitis: http://imaginis.com/breasthealth/breastfeeding/mastitis.asp

[abbylynn]

Can you guys manage to spend the day/morning/afternoon just lying around tomorrow, watching movies or reading books or something? It sounds like you need a break! Thanks Marisa! That's what we did most of the weekend but the last two days we've been out of the house a bit trying to get things done. Trying to convince a toddler to stay in bed all day has been tough. My room is now covered in toys that I brought in in an attempt to keep DS from roaming around the house all by himself. It doesn't help either that the "terrible twos" seem to have come on full force in the last week. My mom is going to pick DS up tonight around 9pm and bring him back tomorrow so I can get some much needed rest (we had a really rough night last night).

[Dreshny]

Thanks, Marisa and Sarah. It's possible that there could be something wrong with the latch. I've been working with an LC whose idea of a latch is pretty complicated--my arm has to be at a certain angle, etc. But last week she said my latch looked better. In my understanding, though, as long as the whole areola is in the baby's mouth and the baby is close enough to my body, things should be okay, right?

Thrush? Maybe. I had that thought, too, so I've been drinking DanActive, which is basically milk with acidophilus in it. The LC is convinced that DS has thrush, based solely on the fact that I had antibiotics during labor, and she's been telling me to give him the acidophilus. I could be totally wrong here, but I thought that babies shouldn't have anything but breastmilk until they are at least six months old.

My midwife prescribed nipple cream that's part steriod, part antibiotic, and part antifungal, which she assured me was safe for the baby to eat, and said all the midwives in the practice have been prescribing it for years. My dad, who's a doctor, told me the ingredients were poisonous, and not to use it under any circumstances. So I haven't...

I probably don't even need the cream at this point: my left nipple is actually looking a lot better since using the nipple shield, and I had a pretty good day today nursing DS (helps that I got some sleep last night :)). The main issue now is that I feel like I'm living in two-hour increments because I have to run home and nurse DS in the glider with the Boppy, per the LC's instructions (she said "if it's not a good show, don't take it on the road.") I'd like to be able to take DS to a museum or something since it's been hot/humid/rainy but I can't carry the baby and the Boppy, too. Or even just nurse in bed rather than running to the glider (which is in another room) all night. I'm terrified I'll mess up the latch and ruin my nipples again, though.

I'm trying to avoid having to call (and pay for) a different LC (the one I've been working with is obviously, um, quirky.)

[Dreshny]

I guess I should add that DS will only sleep during the day if he's in his sling and I'm walking outside, so to have to run home to feed him every time he wakes up hungry is really frustrating. But at this point, I don't want to inflict any further damage.

[Sarah]

Oh boy, Dreshny. Sounds like an interesting LC. :D

In terms of the cream, I have no clue. But if your dad is a Dr and you trust him and he really means the ingredients are poisonous, then don't use it. But Marisa has a copy of Hale's- maybe she can shed some more light on the issue.

There's no specific arm position required for a good latch- I used to be able to nurse upside down, backwards, etc. Yes, his mouth should be very widely opened, and he should be taking in a lot of areola. His lips should be tucked out, not pursed in. Check that bottom lip for being tucked in and pull it out if you can. Your nip shouldn't be flattened when he's done.

But honestly, if you feel comfortable, NIP as much as you want. There is no good reason not to. If you feel you'd get frustrated or expose too much bb, then use a blanket or go to your car or a secluded spot. Maybe you could bring the Boppy in your car, and leave it there, and leave the museum or wherever to nurse? I remember needing 1000 pillows to nurse at first- it was frustrating.

Otherwise, even a newbie nursing mom should be able to nurse wherever she feels comfortable. Ignore that silly LC's advice on this one.

You don't necessarily have thrush, just because you had abx in labor. I had abx, and no thrush. Many women don't ever hve thrush and had abx. But drinking the milk with acidophilus sounds like a good plan, to keep all your flora healthy. I think taking acidophilus caplets would be good, too, but I wouldn't give them to the baby, especially since you aren't even sure it's thrush. Does he have white patches in his mouth, that you can't scrape off? I would go to a different LC or even the pediatrician if you're not sure if it's yeast. They can prescribe a yeast killer, or you could use something more natural like gentian violet. Make sure you keep your bbs as dry as possible- yeast likes moist heat (and you know bbs get hot and sweaty in the summer:D). Try to cut back on sugar and white carbs if possible.

[emschwar]

somehow I stopped getting notifications for this thread. Just replying in hopes they'll start up again :)

[moderngal]

Dreshny~ there is a boppy diaper bag- it fits the boppy and has pockets for other diaper bag stuff. maybe that would give you a little more freedom for NIP? boppy diaper bag at bru (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000BXJI7/qid=1120698925/sr=1-14/ref=sr_1_14/103-3331030-7480611?v=glance&s=baby)

[sunni76]

Joining:)
FWIW, I have a hooter hider, www.hooterhiders.com, it is perfect for nursing in public, and DD tolerates it way better than a blanket over her! Plus it's lightweight and perfect for summer.

[ahavnes]

happy1nluv- I have a book called "Wonder Weeks" that says babies often go through a clingy stage around 6 weeks. Maybe your little one is going through it a bit late. The book mentions that they like nursing since that's the closest they can get to you. Just a thought. My DD is almost 6 weeks, and she often fakes sleep several times before she actually goes down at night. I am constantly putting her on and off the breast.

Hope that helps! :)

[Dreshny]

Sarah: Heh, I'm in Manhattan, so no car. It's the obvious solution, though. ;) I don't think my baby has thrush--there are no white patches in his mouth. The LC is getting increasingly annoying. I have one session left of her four session "salon." Last week, she looked at Asher and said in a squeaky voice "Mommy, feed me some acidophilus!" It's been a weird month...

[Marisa]

Roseanne -- It's like what I said when we had our little GTG... :) You're in a great place b/c NY is full of people who can help you --- but not everyone is going to mesh with you, and not everyone is going to give you the advice you need. Heck, my own mom is a IBCLC and I wound up going to a different woman for several visits. Mom and I had just hit a wall as far as what she was able to help me with, KWIM? You just have to know when to say, hmmm... maybe I'll get another opinion. It's not an exact science. That's why I kinda like the way LLL's book is the *Art* of breastfeeding. :)

So I think it'd be great if you could speak with another LC. Try LLL too, I just looked at the Manhattan groups and they've got three or four meetings during the day, and one on the weekends too.

Re: the boppy -- I know that she just wants to make sure you're in the right position, and being in the glider with the boppy is comfy for you right now, but this is temporary -- the next few weeks will bring such changes for him and you both, and you'll be more confident and skilled at nursing (in public and home). I know they make a 'portable' boppy -- there's an inflatable version (can you imagine having to blow up a boppy at the Met?) but I'm thinking of one that's just a small boomerang shape, just enough to support the baby and your arm at the right height, small enough to tuck into a backpack or diaper bag. Maybe I'll have to make one. :)

Is the ointment they prescribed Dr. Newman's All Purpose Nipple Ointment? If so, I can assure you that I've read about it many times and it is safe to nurse after using it... you can read more about it here:
http://www.kellymom.com/newman/03b-treatments_sore_nipples_breasts.html#apno

If not, let me know the ingredients and I'll be glad to look them up in Hale's. :)

[ButterflyJen]

Okay, need help and suggestions.

DD is 10-1/2 months old. She's had her top teeth for a few months now. I'd say I've been having trouble on the right side for about two months. There are two cuts/open areas that will not heal, no matter what I do. Nipple shield is out - she just bites it. (ouch) I have tried just pumping that side and nursing off the left - still doesn't heal, even after a week or so. As soon as she latches back on it's open and bleeding again.

Anyway - I've had enough of being in pain on my right side. So here are my questions:
1. I'm only planning to nurse to a year at this point. Can I wean her off my right side and just use my left for the next month or so?
2. If so - how do I go about doing that?

Thanks, ladies. I am determined to make it to a year, but at this point I'm tired of biting my tongue in pain every time I latch her on to righty. :(

[BridalLace]

question:

when do you start to add baby food to babies' diets? not til 4-6 months?

when you DO add babyfood, does that give your breasts a break of a sort? or does the amount babies need to nurse increase with the growth of their general appetite/stomach size?

just curious. thanks for any advice. just looking forward to how this school year is going to work out and how much i'll be pumping on a daily basis as the year goes on...

prolly should put this in the Moms with Pumps thread too...

Heather

[SiValleySteph]

Bridal Lace, My son didn't really take to solid food until 7-1/2 months or so even though we started trying him with rice cereal and such a little past 5 months. Even though he now eats a good solid meal for lunch (about 3oz veggie, 2oz fruit) and breakfast (4oz yogurt) plus snacks and a small dinner, I still send the same amout of milk in bottles to daycare that I have for the past 2 months. He is 9 months now. I send 16oz every day. I started him with 18oz a day and he would always have left over. Even now, he will sometimes have a lot left (6oz the other day! I wanted to cry when I poured it out) and sometime will have none left.

I seem to be losing my point somewhere in there. :p

In my experience, adding solid food didn't really give me a break from breast-feeding. My son still breast feeds as much as before and drinks about the same amount of EBM. However, since he has become super-mobile (i.e. standnig, crawling, cruising, into everything!), I have had a harder time getting him interested in nursing or eating when he is busy.

I give up, I think my post has no point, but I'm posting it anyways because I just typed it. :o

[Daniel's Kitty]

Just a warning! Lansinoh is $9 at King Soopers(grocery store, Kroger). I looked last night but decided to wait since I know it is cheaper at Target.

[Koala_Gurl]

Bridal Lace,...

I seem to be losing my point somewhere in there. :p ...

I give up, I think my post has no point, but I'm posting it anyways because I just typed it. :o

Sad, but I got exactly what you meant!

[Marisa]

Jen -- you absolutely could nurse only on one side, your production will shift so that there is enough milk on that side. If you can, I'd pump just a little bit on the right from time to time, just so you don't get engorged -> plugged ducts -> mastitis. But otherwise, your body will meet the demand, it may take a day or so but lefty will up the production if the stimulation is there.

Heather -- the AAP's new guidelines are for exclusive BFing for the first six months (no solids, no formula) if at all possible. Studies have shown that this decreases babies' risk of things like obesity, diabetes, and food allergies later in life. The advantage to waiting, as well, is that baby's gut is that much more developed, and you can skip the bland cereals in favor of things like sweet potatoes or banana.

You shouldn't expect to cut back on nursing, though. For most of the first few months of solids, they're just for "experience" more than nutrition. Only breastmilk or formula has the right balance of fats, vitamins and nutrients, and should make up the bulk of baby's diet for the full first year. You can expect her to take up to 20 oz or more a day even once she's on three meals of solids.

[ButterflyJen]

Thanks Marisa. I've nursed solely on the left before (pumped the right though) and it's worked out fine supply-wise. I was unsure though if drying up one side would affect the other. If it seems to - I should be able to relactate righty within a short period of time, right?

Also - should I cut down on the number of times I nurse on righty and up the times I nurse on lefty, or just quit nursing with righty altogether and pump it less and less frequently?

I know, so many questions. :) I wonder why righty is the one getting (and staying) beat up. Maybe her latch is different on that side since it's the side that was damaged so badly at first? Interesting, if so. All I can say is I hope this doesn't happen with the next baby! :eek:

[carolc]

Dreshny, I am a broken record on this issue, but has your LC (or maybe the new LC you're going to find could do this?) checked your baby's palate? Some babies have high or arched palates that can cause the kind of pain and damage you are describing. You can *sort of* check it yourself...put your finger in his mouth and feel the roof of his mouth. If the arch feels significantly higher/more narrow than the curve of a teaspoon, there might be a problem. But an LC will know better.

I used the Newman ointment for at least 2 months and it did help decrease my pain. I was nervous about DD ingesting it too; I would wipe away any obvious excess, but that was it. She seems to be extremely fine. :)

If you have pain from your nipples rubbing up against things between feedings, I recommend buying breast shells. They're little plastic dome things that hold your bra and shirt off the nipple.

[Dreshny]

I have more questions:

In the last few days, DS has been sucking kind of desperately (I don't know how else to describe it), moving his head back and forth and twisting the nipple, and whimpering and making generally unhappy noises. I can't figure out what's going on. Is he not getting enough milk (this usually happens in the evening between 7 and 11)? Or is it just part of his general fussiness?

I've been offering both breasts (at 30-40 minutes each!) if he cries after the first one, a common occurence lately. Does crying usually mean he's still hungry (after I've burped him and checked his diaper)? Sometimes he calms down after eating twice, sometimes not. I was under the impression from the classes I took, though, that only one breast should be offered at a feeding.

Then again, because of the soreness, I was told to only offer one breast and space feedings to every two hours. Now that they are less sore (hallelujah!), I'm not sure how to proceed with on-demand feeding. He still seems to want to eat every two hours.

[Marisa]

R -- Kellymom has a great page that talks about this kind of behavior:

http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/fussy-evening.html

I think we've all been right where you are now. :)

[Allegra]

yay! I'm over here now! But does anyone else have problems with the pages going to an http:/// and erroring out?

Anyway, trying to subscribe...

Allegra

[lady1297]

Wohoo! I've made it to 11 months!! I think I deserve a pat on the back from myself! :p

Just wanted to be happy with people who understand!!


Question. DS is getting sippy cups and will drink juice and water or just water out of them but not formula or EBM. Any ideas on how to get him to like them out of a sippy? We are trying to eliminate the few bottles he does get and he's twarting our plans!

[NicoleWisconsin]

Way to go! It's a nice feeling, isn't it?

Keep trying... I read it can take 10-15 exposures for an infant to accept something.

[Marisa]

Allegra - YES! I'm having the same error! But only in Explorer on my DH's laptop, here on the desktop we use Mozilla and it's fine.

Lady - Right on!!! ;)

[ButterflyJen]

Yay Lady! Way to go! :cool:

[lady1297]

Well, thanks ladies!! We bombed out on the sippy again last night at the Olive Garden. He wouldn't take it and because I had a bottle in the diaper bag, we just gave it to him. I didn't have the energy to argue and didn't want a melt down in the restaurant right after we had ordered! We'll keep trying. :)

I can't believe it's been 11 months! Seems like yesterday I was "on the other side" crying about having latch issues. He's definitly over come his tongue tiedness and his bubble palate!! He's still very tongue tied, and is top teeth are about 1/2 inch apart because of his goofy mouth, but he's figured out how to get the goods.


Vent/train of thought:

Now we are approaching the one year cross roads and I'm not sure where to take us. I want him to be okay with cow's milk and that, but I'm not sure when I want to wean., or even HOW to wean. I don't have any desire to still be nursing when I get pregnant next year. I don't think I'll like it or enjoy it. And since he's gotten so much out of it for the first year, I don't think he NEEDS it as much. He's a healthy eater and so I don't worry. But I'll miss our cuddling and our private times together. So I'm not in a rush. I love that he is a cuddly baby and I attribue that to being breastfeed. All the formula fed babies I know are more distant to their parents. Edward just curls into us both a lot. It makes my toddler seem more like my baby. It's so precious. Sigh. I don't know... I guess we'll go with the flow for now. DH just asks that he not "ask" to nurse. Little does Dh know that Edward already asks by burying his head in my chest and lifting my shirt. Silly kiddo! :)

So where do you go once you've got a one year old? How do you know EBF is for you and your baby? How often does a one year old nurse? Are they nursing for comfort or for nutrition? What's your thoughts on this?

[Sasha]

Question for all of you experts - I have a mastitis infection and the antiobiotic they put me on (augmentin) is gave DD some stomach problems, so both the doctor and pharmacist told me not to BF her until after I finish it. It will be a week that she goes without BF'ing, and we have had many BF'ing problems up til this, so is it possible that DD will forget how to BF? I know some of you may think that it's not right to stop BF'ing her for that long but DD has many gastro problems, plus she was hospitalized this week with a viral infection, so I need to do what's best for her stomach.

TIA.

[scout]

I had originally wanted to wean ds before I go back to work in August, but now I don't want to. I will probably not be able to pump at work at all (I'm a teacher and my schedule is packed full--and I only get a 16 minute lunch plus my "lunch" is at 10:30 a.m.) I plan to nurse ds before I leave for work. I have to be to work by 7:00. I will be able to pick him up at 2:45, and will nurse him when I get home and the rest of the night (not all night....you know what I mean!) Right now, he's nursing every three hours. Once he goes to daycare, he'll miss his 9:00 a.m. nursing session and 12:00 session (although will he still be nursing every three hours at six months old?)

1. Can this even be done?

2. If so, will I get horrible engorged without pumping and will my supply eventually tank?

3. If it CAN be done how can I plan for this? At the end of July should I supplement two of the feedings I'll miss during the day to get my breasts used to the new situation?

I know the logical thing is to pump, but I just don't see how I can with classrooms full of middle school students all day. My only break is my prep and I'll really need to use this time help students and get work done.

[Marisa]

lady - here's how I see it. There are days when Joey doesn't want to eat more than veggie puffs (or lint, or rocks... etc! :D) That's when I'm glad he's still nursing, because at 18 months he's still too young to reason with, and I know he's still getting good nutrition from his 4-5 nursing sessions a day.

I was also *extremely* happy to still be nursing when we flew a few weeks ago, the passengers around us actually stopped me to tell me how well-behaved he was. Sure -- he nursed during takeoff and then slept/nursed for two hours of the flight! :)

I know what you mean about the cuddly time too. It's often the only time during the day when I can snuggle with Joey, usually he's up and down and around and into everything.

As he gets to be a year, you might consider a "Don't offer, don't refuse" kind of approach for a little while. You'd be letting him nurse if he requests, but the rest of the time you're offering him alternatives like whole milk (if he tolerates it well) or solid food. As he gets busier and busier, I wouldn't be surprised if this cut your nursing back to maybe 3-4 times a day, maybe before naps and at night.

I personally don't see anything wrong with him having the bottle still, either. Is it easier to bring a sippy cup? (Joey won't take either, and I've never pushed it.) As long as you're not letting him sleep with the bottle, it's pretty common for babies to feel comforted by the sucking past a year... you can gradually switch to cups but I wouldn't stress about it, is what I'm trying to say. :)

Sasha - what a difficult situation to be in! :( I don't think anyone would judge you for following your dr's advice, you have to do what you think is best for your DD. That said, is it possible to switch to a different type of antibiotic? There are several types that are typically prescribed for mastitis including Bactrim, penicillin... Dr. Sears actually states that cloxacillins and cephalosporins are most effective in treating mastitis.
Is it proven that it's the augmentin that's causing her distress? (Dr. Hale states that only 0.9% of the mother's dose would actually appear in her milk, which is a very tiny amount.)
If there is no alternative to ceasing BFing for the week of treatment, then I would strongly suggest pumping as frequently as you can to keep your supply up. I believe that you will be able to get the baby back to the breast, but you will need to be patient as it may be frustrating for both of you. Don't give up! :)

[carolc]

My only break is my prep and I'll really need to use this time help students and get work done.

Scout, how long a time is this, and can you do it in a private place with an outlet? I aske because you could get a hands-free pumping bra and prep while you pump, perhaps. When I was pumping I did TONS of stuff while I pumped this way (okay, mostly went online, but also worked). If you have half an hour or so, it could work, though it would add a little time (set-up and putting the milk away). You could just wipe the pump parts and wash when you get home.

OTOH, I bet you could also go that long w/o nursing or pumping. You might have to take just a few minutes somewhere (maybe with an Avent? or you could hand-express) to relieve engorgement for a while. But if you continue to nurse at other times, your supply would probably adjust. But Marisa or someone else (maybe some of the working moms) might have more to say about this. :)

On extended nursing--could be that the grass is always greener...but I wish almost every day that Nora was still nursing (she started refusing the breast at 14 months, but I'm sure that's b/c I was hardly nursing at all anyway, mostly pumping) and that we could have had a breastfeeding relationship that went into toddlerhood. I really feel nostalgic and sad about it, even though nursing was so hard for me. I just see many times when it would be a GREAT way to calm her and connect with her. :( If you think you will have regrets at all, I'd say to keep nursing, even if it goes to just once or twice a day.

[lady1297]

Thanks for the advice Marisa and CarolC-

On the bottle/sippy. It's a convience thing. Our bottles are Dr Browns and have a ton of parts. The sippy is simple. Also, he can do a sippy on his own, not so with a bottle. Figuring he's too active sometimes to stop for a bottle, a sippy might get more liquid in him. We're not pushing. Just trying to help him be a bit more independent. He does like his sippy during the day with juice so we figured with milk it would work, but doesn't just yet.

As for nursing, 3 to 4 times a day would be nice. I think we'll all llive nicely with that. I just don't want to be doing it all the time. I know it'll be time to teach him "time and place" soon. As in "at home at nursing times" not just random 'snacks' all day like he does now. Sigh. I love nursing. :P

[scout]

Carol Thank you! Scout, how long a time is this, and can you do it in a private place with an outlet? I aske because you could get a hands-free pumping bra and prep while you pump, perhaps. I have a 38 minute prep, which turns out to be about 30 minutes after the kids from my class leave the room. I guess I could do the hands free thing (can you recommend a pump?) and work as long as I lock the door. I shudder to hear the phone calls I'd get from parents if their kid walked in on me pumping!

I definitely want to keep nursing--it's funny...in the beginning I was telling myself "just get to six weeks"!!

[Dreshny]

Hey, my right nipple healed! I never would have believed it last week. I guess the nipple shield plus letting it air dry completely after feedings really helped. Now if only my left one wasn't so sore. :rolleyes: I've started using the nipple shield on that side now.

Funny, I noticed in the last couple of days that DS has gotten gentler on my nipples during the day, but at night when he's fussy, he chomps down really hard, sucks like a Hoover, and chews. :eek:

BTW, thanks Marisa for the info on cluster feeding. It definitely seems like he was doing that last night. I need to read more of the kellymom site, but I feel like I never have time.

[Sarah]

[QUOTE]I have a 38 minute prep, which turns out to be about 30 minutes after the kids from my class leave the room. I guess I could do the hands free thing (can you recommend a pump?) and work as long as I lock the door. I shudder to hear the phone calls I'd get from parents if their kid walked in on me pumping!

I definitely want to keep nursing--it's funny...in the beginning I was telling myself "just get to six weeks"!!"

Scout- Okay, I know this sounds nuts, and I certainly don't know the culture of the school you teach in (I am a teacher, too, so bear with me a second. :D) But could you possibly discuss this issue with your class? The teacher I worked with this year was pumping once a day for her six month old son, and she had a discussion with the class about nursing being how she fed her baby, and she needed privacy during lunch to pump, and they needed to skedaddle quickly so she had time to pump. She put a discreet sign on the door, and everyone was cool with it. It was a relatively progressive school, though, and I know not all school communities would be okay with it. What grade do you teach?

I do know a couple of teachers who had busier schedules and did what you are talking about- supplementing during the day and nursing at night. I think one of them used to pump a couple of extra sessions on the weekends and at night after her son went down to sleep, to make some EBM to send, but she never pumped at work. And another just used formula for the two sessions she missed, but only offered the bb at home. I think you have to be vigilant about not offering any formula at home to maintain your supply, but I think it would work, especially since your son will be old enough to have some solids and to have established a good supply in you.

[Sarah]

Dreshny- SO glad it healed up!

Lady- Congratulations!

[ButterflyJen]

I saw in one of my magazines that Ensure has a line out called Healthy Mom. There are some of those nutrition drinks as well as bars. I checked out their website and saw Ross on there as well - is this crap, the usual way to sell their stuff to BFing/pregnant moms, or something that might actually be good?

(They're giving away free samples; that's why I ask. :) )

[moderngal]

I buy the Ensure Healthy Mom stuff. I like them b/c they are easy to throw in the diaper bag or carry with me at work and they are much healthier than most portable snacks. They actually taste pretty good, too.

[Marisa]

Jen - I don't see anything wrong with it, anything that makes it easier to get a few calories/vitamins on the go, I suppose. You're right that it is another way for a formula manufacturer to tap into a BFing mom market, though it's not as bad as their new DHA supplements for BFing moms imho. :)

The only problems I have with it is that they're milk and soy based (I wouldn't have been able to have them while Joey was young, he was MSPI) and also that they're for moms from "the first trimester to the first steps" -- I guess they think I should've weaned when Joey was 10 mos, then! Why not just say they're for *all* moms... I actually have less time now than I did when he was less mobile!! :)

[saathei]

I just got back from a long trip with the wonder girls to visit my parents in Colorado. For the most part it went swimmingly, but they did have a little weird nursing behavior. After being in the car for over an hour, they'd refuse to nurse, even if they were starving. I'd hold them to the breast and they'd just scream and flail and refuse to latch. They'd take a bottle just fine, though, and at their next feeding they'd nurse like pros again.

How come they wouldn't nurse after being in the car? Is that typical behavior? Any tips on getting them to nurse when they're screaming like that?

[Koala_Gurl]

saathei - I don't know if it is related, but I have noticed the few times DD has gotten very fussy (ok, pretty much screaming) is after a car ride. Following these few incidents, I have heard the tummy rumbling, and all was OK after she passed gass and/or went poop. My thoughts are that it could be gas (perhaps from the jostling in the car?)

[Marisa]

Saathei -- I love your new icon! :)

Perhaps they're uncomfortable after being in the car seat -- anything, like a muscle cramp or a stiff neck, might make them unwilling to nurse at first, but more willing once they've had a chance to wave their arms and legs around. :)

[twainny]

My DS is almost 4 months old, and this past weekend it KILLS when he BFs. I don't know why, it has never hurt before. I don't know if he is sucking harder or what. He is latched on the same, so I don't think that is the issue.

Also, is this normal? He is a very messy eater and the milk just drips down onto my tank top and all over his clothes (making both of us not smell very good afterward). Is the milk coming out too fast for him or is he not that hungry? Should I pump and feed him (I prefer to nurse when I can). I just hate that we are both soaking wet when he is done eating.

Thanks!

[Marisa]

Twainny -- if the latch is the same, you might consider that the pain could be coming from a mild yeast infection or thrush. Just like a regular yeast infection, they tend to strike when your resistance is low, and it may just be because you've been eating too much refined sugar or something like that. Try taking probiotics (acidophilus) supplements for a couple of days and see if that helps with the pain. You can also eat yogurt with active cultures.

As for the milk problem, boy does that sound familiar. :) I remember being covered with milk for the first six months of his life or so. I started carrying a small burp cloth or cloth diaper in his diaper bag, and leaving them around the house where I might nurse. Tucking it in under his face, under the breast, caught most of the dripping. Joey got much more coordinated right around the time when he began sitting up, etc. -- it may be a head-control issue.
Add a cup of white vinegar to your washer's rinse cycle to get rid of the milk smell in your/his clothes as well. ;)

[twainny]

Marisa- Thanks for the vinegar tip! I am going to do laundry tonight :) I also usually put something under his head, but he moves so much that it falls down, at least I know that this is normal.

I will check out DS to see if there is any evidence of thrush. I never thought of that.

Thanks!

[happy1nuv]

I think Nic might be sensitive to me eating tomatoes... (i'm italian, so i'm always eating some ... but the last two time I had a lot coincided with high fuss, high demand nursing days and nights... How long do I have to go without them to be sure they're gone so I can test my theory?

[ButterflyJen]

Ladies who have had AF return - when did your supply dip? For how long?

I'm onto CD2 and she's back, with a vengeance. Anna's nursing habits have been totally different today. She'll nurse for a while, then pop on and off and flail her arms around. I'm guessing my supply has dropped a bit. Please tell me it will come back soon...

[happy1nuv]

Hmmm... Nic's been doing that too... he's been fussy all day and the only thing that consoles him is the boob. He's happy and chugging at the start, but after about 5 minutes he starts shaking his head (boob still in mouth) from side to side and flailing his arms... I haven't gone more than 20-30 minutes most of the day without him on one boob or the other, so I'm wondering if he's emptying whats there, then getting frustrated? I'm trying to not switch sides too quickly so the other side will sorta refill before switching... but??? (sorry no help)

[Adam's Pi]

My DS is now 1 year old, and we're still nursing. I had dropped the number of sessions to 4 times a day (no problems), but now he's asking for a fifth session (night waking, which is ok). He also has increased his solid food intake. From what I've read, half of his day's nutrients should be from BM (or whole milk, but we haven't started that yet, no real reason) and half from solids. Is this right? If I try to drop another session, should I start whole milk? I'm not looking to wean entirely, but ideally to nurse 3, maybe 4 times a day by the fall, then go to once or twice by Christmas, and re-evaluate after that.

[ann2002]

Jen - When AF returned I noticed a dip in my supply for a few days and then it returned to normal --- I had a dip with each subsequent AF... I think that others have said that they noticed a second dip around ovulation as well...

[Sarah]

From what I've read, half of his day's nutrients should be from BM (or whole milk, but we haven't started that yet, no real reason) and half from solids. Is this right?

Well, there's no "should" in this case, IMO. I know plenty of kids who were 18 months or older before they really got into solids, and plenty who were all about the solids at 6 months. If he is getting plenty of BM, which it sounds like he is, then he's probably fine, nutritionally.

IIRC, kids at one year (if weaned) are supposed to get 16 oz of milk a day (but some people don't drink any milk and their kids are fine, they just supplement other foods). So if you drop down nursing sessions, and he still seems thirsty or hungry, you could try offering some whole milk, to get him used to it. But I don't think it's necessary. If he seems dehydrated, water works.

IN any case, the point is just give him what seems to work, don't worry about the "supposed to"s. :D

[dexters]

My daughter is 2 months old and weighs only 7lbs 10oz. She was born full term at 6.12, and we took her home at 6.3. She has fallen off the charts, weight-wise. :(

I just returned from our two month WBV, and the ped said if she hasn't gained enough weight by next week than I have to start supplementing her with high calorie formula. He said that I should be switching sides after 10 minutes, since she will have drained my breast in that amount of time with a good latch & suck. Is that true? I asked if I could supplement her with EBM, and he said my milk might not be caloric enough. Is that possible?

I guess I am just looking for some support and encouragement. I really don't want to have to give her formula, but of course I want her to be healthy.

ETA: I have been nursing her on demand, pretty much every 3 hours or so. Should I just try to squeeze in an extra feeding between those?

[Marisa]

dexters -- I think definitely the first course of action is to increase the number of feedings. Actually, I disagree with your ped's advice just a little, because if you have a strong milk supply there's a chance that she will be getting the waterier foremilk throughout a 10-minute feeding, and less of the fatty hindmilk.

Try increasing the frequency of feedings to every two hours during the day, but also try limiting her to one breast per feeding, or one breast for two feedings in a row. In other words, if right now you let her pop off and you burp her and switch, latch her right back onto the same side until she's ready to come off.

It's pretty important not to limit the length of a feeding at all. Here's a good page on Kellymom about the fat content in breastmilk:

http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/milk/change-milkfat.html

At one point she says

The degree of emptiness of the breast is what research has shown to drive breastmilk fat content, and thus calorie content. The fuller the breast, the lower the fat content of the milk;

If you are spacing feedings and limiting her time at the breast, your milk will have a lower fat content than if you let her nurse as long as she's willing and really empty each side.

How much is your ped looking for in terms of gain by next week? I'd say that if at all possible you should have a bit of a 'nurse-in' -- plan to be around the house as much as possible with the baby, put your feet up, watch some daytime tv, set yourself up some sandwiches and snacks, and just nurse nurse nurse the baby. :)

Can you get in touch with a IBCLC or someone at LLL before going ahead with supplements? If you go to my profile there's a link for LLL groups in the US. At the very least I think that you need to get a second opinion from someone trained in breastfeeding. :)

[Koala_Gurl]

If possible...

Tivo = more enjoyable nurse-in! (Helped me through the growth spurts!) ;)

[ce_Kathleen]

I hope someone can help me!!

My DS will be 11 months on Sunday and I just got a BFP yesterday! We are really happy (we wanted our kids 20-24 months apart and they will be 19).

BUT...all of a sudden DS will not nurse! This is actually the reason why I thought I might be PG and why I tested.

Do I need to worry about engorgement since he suddenly just stopped nursing? We were only nursing 2-3 times a day but I just don't know if it is OK to just stop like this. I keep offering and he will take the boob (sometimes when he is sleepy) but he won't suckle at all he just spits it out a fights to get free or to get a sippy cup.

I appreciate any insight you can give me on this, I just don't know what to do.

[Sarah]

Congratulations, Kathleen! I am surprised that your DS won't nurse- usually it takes a while for your supply to be effected by pregnancy, if it all. Many women see no effect, and most who do don't notice it until they are much further along, like 12+ weeks or more. I was still able to nurse my DD with some milk until about 16 weeks, and I kept nursing for a while after that without much milk. Is it possible you are a couple of months along?

Otherwise, it may be coincidental. He may just be being 11 months and want to be moving around and not be concerned with nursing. If you want to continue nursing him for a while and are not yet ready to wean, just try offering the bb as much as possible in a quiet dark room and gtting him relaxed with a book or a song. If you are ready to wean and feel comfortable not nursing anymore, I would recommend still offering once or twice a day to help with engorgement or plugged ducts that may occur. If he really won't, then I might pump if the breast gets really full. You can try the tips for drying up milk, too, like using cabbage leaves, ice, and not letting them get hit with hot shower water.

[ce_Kathleen]

Thanks Sarah,

well I am not really sure how far along I am, since my cycles were pretty wacky due to still BF. My LMP was May 29 but it was a really light cycle (only 2 days compared to normally 6 or 7). I am going in for a blood test and then depending on the numbers they will do an ultrasound or another blood test after a few days.

It is strange though about how DS stopped nursing...just before he stopped it seemed like my supply was increasing and he was nursing more and then all of a sudden 2 days ago it was no more boob!

My goal was to make it to one year so I definitely will continue to offer, but even now its been 2.5 days since DS nursed and I don't even feel full.

Thanks for the help!

[NicoleWisconsin]

Dexters, I just wanted to offer you a hug and encouragement. Keep at it. I would recommend a nurse-in and increased feedings, also.

Don't beat yourself up, you're doing a great job! And keep in mind that someone has to be at the 1% in order for someone else to be at the 50%

[catmom]

I am beginning to think I may be feeding DD too often. She is 4 months, and still eats every 1-2 hours, but I think some of that is because I am too quick to offer the breast every time she fusses or acts cranky. Her weight gain at her last peds visit was not great (4 oz in 2 weeks), and I read in one of my sleep-advice books that babies that bf too often may not be getting enough hindmilk, and may not sleep well because they are hungry. I seem to remember that someone over on the WC (Sarah? Maybe?) had this problem, and a LC said to space out her feedings and this solved the problem. Does this sound right? And if so, how much should I try to space out her feedings? I will admit that I am really bad at interpreting hungry vs tired vs bored, and I tend to try to fix all ills with the boob. Not a great idea, I know.

[scout]

Our babies are the same age and I was having the same problem you were.

I will admit that I am really bad at interpreting hungry vs tired vs bored, and I tend to try to fix all ills with the boob I was doing this at first too. I thought feeding on demand meant that everytime ds fussed, he was hungry. Then, he would nurse for two minutes and cry anyway and then be hungry an hour later. Here's how I fixed it: First, I established how long a four month old baby for my ds' weight should be going in between feedings. It ended up being three hours. I started in the morning and I made sure that ds got a really good feeding first thing in the morning. When he fussed an hour later, I knew he couldn't be hungry. I played with him, bounced him--basically distracted him. When he was fussy an hour after that, I put him down for a nap, since he'd been awake for two hours (followed the "HSHHC" book). When ds woke from the nap, I knew he was hungry. He fed really well, since he WAS hungry and not just snacking. He got another good meal, and three hours later I fed him again. We now nurse every three hours and ds is actively feeding for 15 minutes. I know he's getting lots of hindmilk, and he doesn't snack anymore. Hope that helps! :)

(Sometimes, ds really does seem hungry after only two hours have passed, and so I feed him if he seems hungry.)

[catmom]

I established how long a four month old baby for my ds' weight should be going in between feedings. It ended up being three hours

Thanks! Can I ask how you figured that? Is there something somewhere that indicates how often average babies need to eat?

[scout]

Can I ask how you figured that? All of the books I read said that a four month old baby should eat 4-7 times a day. I figured my ds was on the high end of that since he's so big! To double check, I asked my pediatrician. I know that bf babies tend to eat more often, and I wanted to be sure every three hours would be o.k. She mentioned that if he was still really hungry during the night, I may want to feed him every 2 1/2 hours, but otherwise every 3 would be fine. His weight has been good, though, so this may not be of help to you. I'd ask your doctor to be safe!

[chloechloe]

Hi everyone
I was Lovemyguy on WC, unfortunately with the changes it will not allow me back on the website (it won't accept a postal code from Canada). So I have been desparately looking for a way to get in touch with the breastfeeding gurus. I found you! Thank goodness.
My DD is now 9.5 months old. My MIL told me flat out that I have bf long enough, I should be proud of myself and wean. I was surprised because she told me she bf. Then I found out she only bf for two months with her babies.
Well DD still isn't gaining as much as they want.
18 pounds at 5 months
19pounds 2 ounces at 8.5 months
19 pounds 6 at 9 months
19lbs 8 oz at 9.5 months
I get the you're a bad mother lecture every time I get her weighed.
How can I increase her weight???
Also the past few days she has nursed every hour or two. Could it be her stuffy nose (teething), the EXTREME heat, or a growth spurt????
Thanks Ladies....I have missed you!

[SiValleySteph]

chloechloe,
My DS had a similar weight gain pattern and no one is concerned here whatsoever. In fact, my ped was reassuring us that it was totally normal because we were sure that he was going to weigh like 22lbs at his 9 month appointment and he was just 20 (18lbs6oz at 6mo). I don't know why you're getting a bad mother speech? :confused: My ped told us that we wouldn't expect to see our DS stay in the 90th percentile for weight because neither DH or myself has that body type. Now DS is 90th for height and 50th for weight. Oh, and we went to the doctors a few times over the month of June for various reasons and his weight didn't change much at all - a few oz here and there- and no one gave us any "speeches." Seriously, a lot of stuff I read on here makes me so glad to have my ped. Your ped shouldn't be making you feel bad, he/she should be working with you to see if there really is a problem and if so, suggesting ways to up your babes weight.

[Marisa]

chloe - I agree with what Steph says. While the slow weight gain might be troubling in a younger infant, the fact is that she's still above the 50th percentile for breastfed girls, using this chart designed from World Health Organization statistics:

http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/growth/chart3.html

Perhaps it might be helpful to print that and bring it along to your next visit?

This chart:
http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/growth/chart1.html

shows the CDC charts (which most peds use) with the BF baby's average growth curve plotted in red. You can see there that she's still just about average.

Is there any other cause for concern with your DD's health? Has she grown in height? (My DS didn't gain more than an oz or two between his visit at 13 mo. and his 15 mo. visit -- that's 2 mos and 1 oz of weight gain - but he'd grown 2 inches!)

If she wants to nurse, I'd say let her. Try to keep her on as long as possible, and don't switch sides with every feeding -- if she keeps nursing at one side she will really empty the breast and get to the fattier milk at the end.

Otherwise... I know the Canadian health system is different from ours, but is there any way you could get another opinion? Talk to a IBCLC?

[Dreshny]

Does feeding from both sides count as one feeding or two? I used to only feed DS from one side for 40 minutes or so. Now lately, he seems to still be hungry (crying, drooling, rooting, sucking hands) after eating from one side (again for 40 mins or so), so I've been offering the other breast. Also, he's not taking himself off the breast anymore--I'm having to de-latch him. Twice in the past couple days I fell asleep while feeding him and woke up an hour or more later, and he was still sucking hard. Is that OK? The ped. nurse orginally told me not to let him suck for more than 30 mins. because he would burn the calories he's taking in.

[Lydia]

Please post your favorite bottles for feeding EBM!

I'm debating on whether I should keep our four boxes of Dr. Brown's bottles

:p :p :p

[Marisa]

Roseanne -- can we say, 6-week growth spurt? Right on schedule, too! :D



ETA -- yup, perfectly normal, he'll settle down in a day or two. :)

[SiValleySteph]

Lydia,
We just use the Avent. I'm pretty happy with them. I have an absurd amount, though - 8 9oz and like 12 4oz. So don't worry about having 4 boxes. :p
The only thing about Dr. Brown's is that they have extra parts to wash. I don't know if you are going to be WOH, but washing bottles and pump parts is the bane of my exsistence, so there is no way I would want to be washing extra parts.

[Lydia]

That's precisely why I want to return them. Too much work! I am scouring the reviews on Amazon.com for different bottles/storage systems. I could just pump into the Medela CSF bags and then provide empty bottles for daycare.

[ce_Kathleen]

Lydia
We too use the Avent bottles...we only have 4 9oz and 2 4oz but we were off bottles completely by 10.5 months old and we now use the avent sippy cups or the nuby sippy cups.


OK here is an update to my strange situation. Well I got my BFP and 2 days before that DS stopped nursing. Well this morning I got him to nurse (sort of, he barely suckled) well after a few "sips" off the bb he pulled off, made this face and stuck his tongue out and GAGGED!!! After that he refused to nurse anymore! It was like he didn't like the taste, the only other time he has made a face like that and gagged was when I fed him creamed spinach or broccoli!

I don't know what this means, are we done nursing just b/c I am PG? Can your milk "taste" different?

If I am done nursing do I need to worry about getting engorged, should I pump?

Any insight is greatly appreciated, this is just so weird, I don't understand my DS!

[ButterflyJen]

Congrats Kathleen! :) I think I remember reading somewhere that your milk can taste different when you get PG - but I have no first-hand experience with that. Just something I recall seeing somewhere....

[Marisa]

Kathleen -- I have read that your milk can change when you get PG, though you might be a little earlier along than when you usually hear about that happening (closer to the 2nd trimester).

Still, if he won't latch back on, you might consider pumping just a little to avoid engorgement. Just whenever you'd normally be nursing him -- you can taper off over the course of a few days if he's really not interested in nursing anymore. You can save any milk you pump and offer it to him in a cup (that way you can see if it's the milk or the act of nursing that he's not into right now).

[ce_Kathleen]

Thanks Jen and Marisa!

I had not thought about pumping and trying to give it to him in his cup...I will have to see if that works. If nothing else at least I will know if its my milk or if its me he isn't liking right now.

I feel bad just stopping nursing so suddenly, especially if its my fault b/c I got PG! :(

[moderngal]

I'm using Dr. Brown's bottles. I just throw them in the dishwasher every night. I have enough so that I only have to run the dishwasher every 3 days. Cleaning the pump parts is a pain though since I need that everyday.

[alisong]

Bottles - we use Dr. Brown's as well, and just throw all the parts in the dishwasher. DS preferred them to the Avent we tried, but he may be more flexible now.

Kathleen - apparently I stopped nursing the second my mother got pregnant (when I was about 1). Like you, it was what made her take a pregnancy test.

***

I posted a while ago about the obscene amounts of EBM our nanny gives DS during the day, and it's only gotten worse! He's almost six months old, and probably weighs 18 pounds, and he gets up to 30 ounces a day! I guess it might be a reasonable amount, given that I feed him an additional 2 or 3 times on the days I work. However, there's no way I can keep up with this - I pump up to 16 ounces at work, and between 6 and 8 first thing in the morning. I work three days a week.

We're planning on starting solids next week, and I'm hoping at least he won't continue to increase the amount of milk he consumes. :(

[Mickey&B]

Well my DS isn't born yet, but I am planning on nursing once he arrives. At my midwife appt yesterday she asked me about birthcontrol once baby arrives. She mentioned the mini pill and or an IUD as forms of birthcontrol that don't effect BF, but at my BF class the lactation consultant mentioned that the mini pill has been known to effect milk production. So I thought I would ask here. Have any of you taken/ or are taking any forms of birth control and how has it effected/ or not effected your milk production?

[ce_Kathleen]

Mickey&B well we used condoms once DS was born so I can't help you with the first hand experience on the pill but my friend started on the mini-pill at her 6 week pp visit and she noticed a drop in supply. Although I think it is different for everyone and you may not know until you try it?

Update: well I got DS to nurse last night! I went in before I went to bed (he had been sleeping for a few hours) and picked him up and put him to the bb. He nursed like a champ and even on both sides! Although he didn't want to nurse this morning again, so I am beginning to think it has more to do with how active he is now rather than my PG?? He is barely taking his sippy cup some mornings too b/c he wants to be up and about, although he will eat cheerios for breakfast if we lay them out for him on the coffee table.

So I guess I will just try to be persistant and keep offering and I am going to try to nurse in his room in the rocking chair since its quiet in there and that is where he nursed last night.

[Marisa]

M&B - we use a barrier method now (condoms). For me personally, 10 years on the pill was enough, and after the hormonal roller coaster that was pregnancy and PP, I was just not interested in doing anything else to change my hormones around. It's kind of giving my body a break! :)

I have read a bit about a supply drop with the mini-pill, though there are those who say that the reverse is true (I'm not sure how that would work though). If you do decide to go on the mini-pill, it is advised to wait 6-8 weeks before you start, so that nursing is well-established. At that point it should have the most efficacy without impacting your supply -- however, if you do find that it effects your supply, you can stop taking it and begin using a different method. Your supply will recover.

Kathleen - that's great news! As the mom of a busy toddler myself, I kinda had the feeling that might be what was going on with your DS too. :)

[Lydia]

Anyone here use Playtex Nurser bottles?

[BTB]

Bottles: we started out with the playtex ventaire, but the nipples kept clogging, I don't know why but we were annoyed with the "bubble discs" anyway and bought Avent bottles, no problems with those so far.

I need some encouragement, pretty please... DD's just turned three months old. There's been times she's shrunken her feeding intervals before, but it went back to normal and she was even lengthening them a bit up until last week - maybe 3.5 hrs between feedings during the day and a stretch of 5ish hours at night. Last Wednesday she hit a growth spurt, I think, because she nursed every hour on the hour, and has kept up that schedule NINE DAYS now. Everywhere I look it says growth spurts last "1-3 days" and kellymom.com says up to one week. DD's been effective in upping supply, but still just seems hungry all the freakin' time. It's starting to wear on my confidence, that I'm doing something wrong, my milk's not rich enough, I'm not making enough, etc.

It doesn't help that my mother thinks the solution to my problems is rice cereal - and thinks I'm nutty for not giving it weeks ago as it is, because hey, she gave it to my little brother when he was just 3 weeks old because he was so hungry (can you say growth spurt time?) Anyway. Ironically it was the weekend I graduated medical school that she started harping on how I don't know how to feed my child (not in those words, she means well, really.) As a mother of three, and especially as an RN, she feels qualified to tell me I'm overdue to start solids which, of course, I'm not. But it is bugging the crap out of me to think my poor kiddo's still so hungry all the time. How long can a growth spurt go on before it can't be explained as one anymore?

[Adam's Pi]

Lydia I used them with DS from the time he was about 2 months until just recently. He did very well with them. We used the drop ins--although I hated the waste, they were mighty convienient. Two thumbs up from us.

[Adam's Pi]

BTB Colin's 6 week growth spurt lasted WELL over a week. I think it was nearly 2 (not what you want to hear), but it *did* end. Then he spaced his feedings back out again.

[alienhost]

Lydia We've used the Playtex nurser bottles since DD was a week old. But it's been at least two weeks since we've given a bottle (bad I know, just to lazy these days).

I used both the drop-ins (DH prefers those) and the regular liners (much cheaper and I didn't mind those).

[BTB]

Thanks, Karen. That actually is reassuring, because that means just five more days - much better than feeling like this is going to go on forever!

If I can get a tad more whining off my chest: I've repeated the AAP guidelines to my mother until I'm blue in the face, and she just rolls her eyes and says "sure, but are they going to come to your house at 3 AM and feed her for you?" And then starts in with the "you're bringing this on yourself" bit - because she thinks I'm just being stubborn about the cereal.

[/rant]

Okay, now I feel bad for trash-talking my mom when, if the past few months have taught me anything, it's a new respect for moms and just how hard their job is. :D I know she means well, and is just trying to help - it's just that I haven't exactly been asking her for advice, she "just makes her observations" while we're visiting her, and no one can make you feel 16 again like your mom, right?

[MrsT]

BTB - Kellymom has a section about why you should wait on solids - maybe you could read it and throw some facts out next time? Here it is..

Why delay solids? (http://www.kellymom.com/nutrition/solids/delay-solids.html#reasons)

On the topic of constant eating - is it abnormal that my 4.5 month old DS still eats every 2.5 hours - sometimes less - pretty much all day long? He was at a point about a month ago where he would go 3 hours during the day and 5-6 at night, but that's gone by the wayside. Since it's lasted this long, it can't be a growth spurt...

[saathei]

Question - What do you do when the baby just refuses to breastfeed? There've been several instances in the last week when I've put Michaya to the breast and she just screams and screams and won't suck, even though the nipple is there in her mouth. It is SO SO SO frustrating. Sometimes I know the cause - it's too hot, or I ate something funky, but yesterday and this morning there's been no good reason.

Does this ever happen to anyone else, or am I just blessed because I supplement? Is there anything I can do about it? What could be causing her to reject the breast? I'm soooooo frustrated - we've been just fine until now.

[HGMorgann]

saathei - my DD (4.5 mo) sometimes does this. We dont suppliment at all and she doesnt take a bottle so I dont think breast rejection is just for babies that do both. Some of the reasons she does this: too hot (we dont have AC), gas, too tired, cranky, and the fun unknown reasons. Usually, I just wait until she falls asleep, pop it in her mouth, and she nurses then. Good luck to you.

btb - my mil is getting on me for not starting solids yet, so i can emphathize with you. is your dd just wanting to suck for comfort, perhaps? Mine at 3 mo started to become a paci sucking maniac. Before she never took the thing, but now she has one ALOT of the time. I didnt think I would want her to be a paci baby, but its helped spread out her feedings. We were also going through a lot - moving 14 hours away. But, on the other hand, a week or two of growth spurting for your DD might just be normal for her. Each baby is different!

[Marisa]

MrsT -- It's definitely normal for a 4-5 month old to still want to nurse every 2 hours. Heck, my 18 month old will still do that occasionally -- it's soothing to them as well as being a food source! :)

Breastmilk is digested pretty quickly -- within an hour or so of eating -- so he may be hungry again in that quick time. He's probably at an age when nursing is like, the *last* thing he wants to do -- he'd rather look around, pull off, go play.... Does it help if you try to really keep him on for a full feeding each time?


saathei -- I agree, sometimes there's a good reason for this and sometimes it's the all-popular "unknown". The best thing you can do is try to offer a feeding before she seems really hungry (don't give her a chance to get frantic) and also try to sneak it in there when she's sleepy. When Joey would refuse the breast for brief stretches, I was always able to get him to nurse when he was napping.

[MrsT]

Marisa - Thanks. I figured it was "normal" but sometimes I get concerned when I hear about other babies going 4 hours or that if they start to nurse more then solids should be introduced (which I don't want to do for at least another couple of months). You're very right about the short nursing b/c he's all over the place looking around, rolling over and twisting - we're lucky to get 5 minutes of solid nursing before he wants off. I will try to lengthen the feedings though. I have noticed that nighttime feedings are longer, maybe because of less distraction?

Saathei - DS does that too - when he's very tired. I just keep offering and eventually the refusals will stop and he'll either take it or fall asleep. I know it's irritating because you don't know how to help. Good luck!

[BTB]

Saathei: when DD's cried with the nipple right there, if I put her up on my shoulder after a tummy rub I get some wind, from one end or the other, and sometimes both... then she goes back to eating.

I'm so proud... I NIP'd today for the first time! :D I'm kind of klutzy, and DD is still too young for her head to be big enough to hide everything, so as vehement as I am about the right to NIP, especially in this great state of IL, I've been too chicken-(ahem, poop) to actually DO it. Even though I wanted to.

Today, at BRU, DD gets hungry. Their mothers' room is a joke, 'nuf said. I badly wanted to feed her in one of the demo gliders. Tried to work up the nerve - walked past the row once... kept on walkin'. Saw a mom bottlefeeding her young baby comfortably in one of those plush chairs. That gave me a little more guts - I hadn't been too sure about whether it was cool to *use* the demos, even though people sit in them for long periods all the time - I mean, if DD was tired I wouldn't put her down for a nap in one of the display cribs. A mom feeding her baby there strengthened my resolve... not enough. Got to the corner of the store again, lamented my cowardice to DH who was still, thankfully, more amused than annoyed.

We browsed baby books for just a minute, DD was getting pretty worked up herself even if my chutzpah wasn't... walked past the row again. Got to the end, and noticed - hey! That mom there isn't just holding her kiddo, she's BFing!!! That did it. I marched to a chair, sat down, and fed DD, awkwardly at first, and then happily. I wanted to say something to that other mother but she left before I figured out what or how, beyond a smile she returned. No one said anything snarky to me, no one pointed out the poopy mothers' room was yards away, no one glared at me. :D

Now that that little barrier's broken, I feel a lot more of a sense of freedom than I expected - like, hey, I can go out in public with my baby and not rush home, or out to the car, when she cries!

[Lydia]

A few people in my mothers' group are shy about NIP so I've made these for them. They're copies of the "Hooter Hider" and I love mine!
http://images.snapfish.com/34448%3B2%3B23232%7Ffp47%3Dot%3E2329%3D%3C87%3D725 %3DXROQDF%3E2323974796%3A77ot1lsi

http://images.snapfish.com/34448%3B2%3B23232%7Ffp3%3Enu%3D3238%3E%3B96%3E634% 3EWSNRCG%3D3232%3A656%3A6834nu0mrj

[happy1nuv]

You go BTB ... I feel exactly the same way about NIP ... adamant but chicken... I'll be tinking of you the next time i'm at bru!

[happy1nuv]

So, nic was baptized yesterday and throughout the day he had 2 bottles of ebm ... i didnt have time to pump at all. We had a pretty good night last night, but he woke up more fequently than he usually does... and this morning he's spent most of it so far on the boob. Could it be b/c skipping those feedings did something to my supply? Or could he have just missed me yesterday? (all the family was over afterwards, so i barely saw my son for a good part of the day)

[jenji]

Way to go, BTB!!! That's great. I'm glad you had just the right encouragement when you needed it. next time will be even easier.

[HGMorgann]

happyinluv he proballly just missed you yesterday! After big days, M is always a mommma's girl and wants to nurse 24/7. With him waking up extra last night and him nursing more today, your supply should be fine. He is helping it out by extra nursing.

[HSSweethearts]

Just subscribing... can't wait to learn from all of you. :)

[alienhost]

BTB Way to go on NIP. I still haven't gotten up the courage. I'm not sure what it is but I just can't seem to do it right now. DD is a very noisy eater and I feel that will just draw attention to us - she just isn't the most "graceful eater". I'm modest in general, anyway maybe one day I'll be comfortable doing it. Also I'm such a germaphobe, I'm not sure where in public I'd feel comfortable! :D

NIP at mother's group I joined this mother's group and it meets a the local gym. The room they have us in is an aerobics room and there are windows (floor to ceiling) surrounding us (looking out to the lobby of the gym). I wouldn't mind BF in front of the other mothers, but I feel all the gym members can see us too. I must get over this hang up huh? Any advice?

Crying at the Breast DD does this occasionally, I think when she is overtired. She will cry and cry with the boob in her mouth. I usually rub her back and make the "shushing" sound and that calms her down enough. Another reason I'm afraid of NIP - I can't imagine dealing with her screaming and trying to BF her.

[Dreshny]

NIP: Just realized today that empty dressing rooms work really well... :)

[Toonces]

NIP at mother's group I joined this mother's group and it meets a the local gym. The room they have us in is an aerobics room and there are windows (floor to ceiling) surrounding us (looking out to the lobby of the gym). I wouldn't mind BF in front of the other mothers, but I feel all the gym members can see us too. I must get over this hang up huh? Any advice?

alienhost ~ could you turn your back to the windows or are they on all sides? I practiced NIP at home in front of a full length mirror and then got a lot of practice at a breastfeeding group. It'll get a lot easier when your baby is bigger. I remember when DD was a newborn and it practically took both me and DH to get her latched and positioned correctly. Now (she's 9 months old) I barely lift my bra and she attaches herself.

BTB ~ CONGRATULATIONS on NIP! :) Isn't that a great feeling?

[moderngal]

BTB- way to go on NIP!! :)

Lydia- I love those!! The patterns are so pretty. :)

Well, I've been off the fenugreek for about 10 days now since my supply seemed pretty good again. But now DS is eating a lot more and I am having trouble keeping up with my pumping. I have enough in the freezer, but I think I may have to start the fenugreek again just to keep up with him. It's not awful or anything, I just hate the way I smell when taking it!! :o

[kakirk]

After a rocky start, breastfeeding is finally starting to go well in La Casa de Katie's Twins. The twins are bf'ing at 98% of their feedings, for at least 10 minutes each (and usually closer to 20-30 minutes), and then are just being "topped off" with formula after each nursing.

They're both nearly up to their birth weights (Hank is 2oz shy & Lily is 5oz shy), and the ped is confident that we'll be done with formula next week-ish.

My question is, how do we go about giving up the formula?? Frankly, it's nice having a bit of a crutch to see just how much each baby is eating, but it's also a pain in the butt to bf AND bottle feed at each feeding.

Right now, we're doing boob first bottle second, with the thought that they'd eat the majority of their calories from the boob & then just finish up with th ebottle. However, they still sometimes eat 2+ oz from the bottle even after the breast.

The ped is fine with them eating 2oz from the bottle, but doesn't want to increase that; she wants my milk to make up their increasing calorie needs. Should I put the bottle first & limit the amount from the bottle to just the 2oz? I hate putting any kind of "limit" on what they need to eat, but maybe I should? I don't know. :confused:

Also, something seems to be giving Lily gas -- she was uncomfortable a bit last night, but then really gassy after lunch today. I had broccoli with dinner last night; isn't that a gassy food?? It doesn't seem to be affecting Hank at all though.

If something is giving one of them gas, how long before that is out of my milk (and therefore not causing gas anymore)? Is it just the one feed or does it stick around all day or something?? Are they too young (2 weeks tomorrow) to give Mylicon (or whatever they're called) gas drops??

ETA two more questions:
Lefty is the Big Producer in this house; is there any way to increase production from just Righty?? I'm taking fenugreek (3x/3x/day) already and pumping 2ish times each day.

Speaking of pumping -- right now I have a hospital pump (the Lactina) on loan but I have to take it back next week. I think I see myself continuing to pump (to have a frozen supply), and think I should invest in a pump. Any preferences? Any idea how much it is to rent a hospital grade pump? (Hubby wants to know which is more "cost effective" :rolleyes: )

TIA.

Katie

[SiValleySteph]

kakirk, is there anyway that if your babies still seem hungry after you supplement them with the max 2oz, that you put them back on the breast? Or is that just too much breast with 2 hungry babies? :p

It seems like you would need them on the breast to up your supply. :confused: If my baby ever seemed hungry still, I would just put him back on the boob. I figured that my body was always making more milk, so I just trusted in my body to work it out. This may not be possible with twins, or in your particular situation.

Oh, and Congratulations and Keep Up the Good Work! :D

***

Has anyone else had nipple pain with an older baby? My son is 10 months next week and my nipples are hurting now. :o He does have tooth #8 coming in and he's sick, so maybe that is influencing his nursing style. But man! I pump at work and with sore nipples, pumping sucks. The sad part is that I never had any nipple pain when he was a newborn, so I thought I was lucky enough to miss out on that. Oh well! :p

[SiValleySteph]

Oh, I missed the pump question. Round here, hospital grade rental is $60-$70 a month. I think it varies by area. I have the Ameda Purely Yours, which is one of the two most recommended double electrics, the Medela Pump in Style being the other. The PY is cheaper than the PIS and I couldn't find a good enough reason to pick the PIS over the PY, so I got the PY for like $150 off EBay and have been very pleased with my purchase. I've been pumping M-F, 3x/day for 6 months with no problems. :cool:

[happy1nuv]

i second the ameda purely yours pump recommndation... i got mine off ebay too - from a lactation consultant (i forget who i bought it from oter than that). Much more economical than renting at less than 150.00

[ButterflyJen]

Has anyone else had nipple pain with an older baby?
Tons. I don't know what the deal is, but I've had almost constant nursing pain for nearly two months. DD turns one in three weeks and unfortunately we'll be weaning then. :( I've tried everything I can think of. I hope yours is just from this tooth coming in!

[NicoleWisconsin]

I had nipple pain at various times over the past few months, for no apparent reason. Usually lasts a few days and then goes away.

[Marisa]

I still have nipple pain from time to time too. It never lingers long enough to be a real issue, but I think it could be anything from a mild case of thrush (it goes away when I eat more yogurt or take probiotics or cut back on sugar)... or lazy latch (when I wake up in the morning and he's somehow found his way onto me, and we're in a bizarre position).

Katie -- I think that the biggest hurdle to overcome with the weaning from formula will be your (reluctant) belief that seeing how much they're eating is valuable. It's reassuring, I can't deny it. When Joey was having so much trouble gaining back his birth weight in the beginning it was *really* tempting to give him a bottle, to see what he would get.

The bottom line is that they'll pretty much drink whatever you give them, right now. If you give them 2 oz, they'll be like, "Yum, thanks." If you give them 3 oz. they'll chug-a-lug. They're programmed to suck right now, b/c this is the age when they want to be attached to you like, 24/7, building up a strong supply. It's instinct. You have to keep in mind that you're the mommy and you call the shots as far as how much 'extra' they get... just because they take 2 oz. doesn't mean they really need it -- look at their little fists, that's how big their stomachs are. You can be the one to say, 2 oz (or 1.5 oz, or 1 oz) is all the extra you need today... their desire to suck after that can be met with a pinky or by going back to the breast as Steph suggested.

I hope this is making sense (my brain is fried from packing all evening, we're going away in the morning). I don't mean to imply that you're just using the formula as a crutch, but I think that at some point you'll be able to *know* when it's not really necessary anymore, and you can taper off slowly at that point.

Oh and -- I can't help but think that the gassiness may have to do with the formula, many babies have trouble with the milk proteins. If you're going to be limiting your diet as well, with most things you'd probably see the effect of the food within a couple of hours of when you ate it, and the food would leave your system within 24-48 hours. Dairy can be more stubborn, and they usually say to wait 2 weeks to really determine if a change has taken place.

[NicoleWisconsin]

I've had problems with broccoli in the past... I can eat anything now, but when Blake was much younger, I had to watch certain things... broccoli, onion, and peppers were problems. And some babies are sensitve to certain things in their mother's diets. Others, nothing seems to bother. I think that would probably apply to twins, also.

No suggestions on formula... Just wanted to tell you that I commend you for taking the challenge of nursing twins... a single baby isn't easy. Also wanted to let you know that I worried a lot at first about how Blake was eating and if he was getting enough. It's hard to not have a number. You do, however, somewhere pick up confidence in your body and its ability to nourish your babies.

[Traciann]

I will also say that the Ameda Purely Yours ROCKS! I have been meaning to come here and thank Marisa and Steph for the recommendation (this was back on WC!) I bought it through a ebay, and bonus is that my insurance reimbursed me for the price of the pump. I have the ISIS, but I don't even use it...the PY is much, much faster.

Traci

[Teresita]

I am about to hit (on Sunday) one year of BF'ing and plan to continue until who knows when. But I also would like to introduce cow's milk as well since my squirmy little girl often cannot sit still to nurse much during the day, but loves her sippy cup.

I have no idea if I need to do anything special to transition her to some cow's milk. Should I just give her some, look for an allergic reaction, and then go ahead with it assuming she isn't allergic? Do most babies' like the taste? As far as liquids go, DD has only had BM, water, and water with just a touch of juice, so I was wondering if I would need to mix it with EBM to start? :confused: Any advice is welcome! TIA.

Also, on the topic of pumps, I have an Ameda Purely Yours and have been very happy with it.

[Allegra]

I don't know what the deal is, but I've had almost constant nursing pain for nearly two months.

It hasn't been two months yet but I hear ya! My lefty is sooo sore when Marisol nurses. I can't figure out why/how either. I have a huge bruise on the top (but her two solitary teeth are on the bottom) It's not quiate a sharp pain but its not quite achy either. It's not deep, inside - it seems more surface realted but I can't find any surface scrapes or lacerations. I'm at a loss. It's bearable but has certainly made the whole nursing experience not so much fun these past few weeks. sigh. I"ve had a pretty easy time of it so I guess I was due for something huh?

Allegra

[lady1297]

Katie -- I had to do the same for DS when he was an infant. The best advice I could give is every few days drop a bottle entirely. They will nurse more, but that's what they are supposed to do. They have to get your supply up to compensate for the lost 2 oz. If you drop the bottle every few days, you'll see them nursing like non-stop some days and over a few weeks (maybe 2 or so I would guess) they'll return to normal amounts of eating. I did this with one baby in one week of non-stop no bra nursathons and it worked. It may be a bit more tiring with two, but you CAN do it.

Just every few days don't give them a bottle after you nurse them, wait about 20 minutes or so then nurse them again. :) Ask if you need more support or info!

[ktnkids]

Just subscribing in here. never know when you'll need some help!:D
as an intro I had my son Nathan Sept 28 and we're still going strong on the nursing! Hopefully we'll continue till a year

[Toonces]

Katie ~ Way to go with tandem nursing!! That's quite an accomplishment. I had a hard time with just one baby. :)

Teresita ~ Congrats on one year tomorrow!! Way to go!

Nipple pain ~ I had some a couple of weeks ago (DD is 9 months old). I think it was from her pacifying on me so much - she had increased that in the last few weeks. Then last week her first tooth broke through. I think she was pacifying on me for comfort and that was making me sore. Now that her tooth has come through, I'm not in pain anymore.

[HGMorgann]

Breastfeeding Protection Initiative (http://www.causekeepers.com/lansinoh/)

From Lansinoh's page:

Every mother should have the right to breastfeed her child Anywhere, Anyplace, Anytime with confidence and without harassment. Yet today, there are still many places that do not offer mothers this protection. There is so much to be done to change the way society views breastfeeding.

To try to raise funds to combat these types of situations through education and awareness of breastfeeding rights, La Leche League International and Lansinoh Laboratories have partnered for the the launch of The Breastfeeding Protection Initiative with the Encourage, Support, Protect Breastfeeding cause bracelets.

Funds raised for The Breastfeeding Protection Initiative will be specifically earmarked and used by La Leche League to continue to provide people with current information on breastfeeding rights and legislation. Materials, such as letters to governmental representatives and business leaders, will also be made available to enable citizens to enact change in their communities. In addition, they will continue to provide information, links, and resources on their website at www.lalecheleague.org.


Why The Breastfeeding Protection Initiative Is Needed


There is growing scientific evidence documenting the protective health, economic and societal benefits of breastfeeding. Yet, mothers are still not able to breastfeed freely anywhere, anyplace, or anytime their babies are hungry.

It is difficult to believe that mothers and children are subjected to humiliation and embarrassment, especially when breastfeeding in public. While there has been progress in proposing and passing breastfeeding legislation, there is a general lack of awareness and serious misinterpretation of those rights and laws.

Because even where there are laws, there are still incidents when mothers are asked to stop breastfeeding in public or told to breastfeed their children in the restroom. It is not enough to propose or enact legislation. Education, awareness, and implementation are key in ensuring that rights are enforced, pending legislation is passed, and future legislation is proposed

[scout]

Good post, Hannah! Has anyone seen this month's "Glamour" Magazine? In the "debate" section, two women are giving their points of view about nursing in public. The woman who is against nursing in public said that she is pregnant with her first child and she will nurse her baby in the restroom. I laughed because obviously she has a glamourized idea about restrooms. I sent Glamour an email saying that I tried to nurse in the bathroom once. Pretty hard to balance on the toilet, hold a squalling, hungry baby to nurse him. Most bathrooms I've been in, don't have couches or chairs. The experience was degrading and gross. Plus, people actually have to USE the bathroom, so they kept pounding on the door yelling at me for taking so long. I'm betting that people see more cleavage from the average teenager than they see from any nursing mother. I got this response from Glamour: Thanks for writing to GLAMOUR to weigh in on the breastfeeding debate:
"Should This be Taboo?" in the August issue. We love to hear from
readers like you, and I have forwarded your letter to the senior editors,
including Editor-In-Chief Cindi Leive.
You make a strong case for breastfeeding. It's popular here at GLAMOUR
where we have numerous young moms, including our Editor-In-Chief!
Thanks for taking time to share your views with us.
Sincerely,
Lynda Laux-Bachand
Reader Services Editor

[nancy drew]

I have no idea if I need to do anything special to transition her to some cow's milk. Should I just give her some, look for an allergic reaction, and then go ahead with it assuming she isn't allergic? Do most babies' like the taste? As far as liquids go, DD has only had BM, water, and water with just a touch of juice, so I was wondering if I would need to mix it with EBM to start? :confused: Any advice is welcome! TIA.


i think that when i introduced soy milk (dd is allergic to dairy, and it turns out she is allergic to soy as well but i didnt know at the time) i mixed it with EBM at first. if you choose to go that route just keep an eye out for reactions for the first few weeks. it took me quite a while to figure out that dd had a soy allergy partly because i was mixing it and partly because allergic reactions can show up any time. if she doesnt seem to like the taste you can mix in a tiny bit of vanilla extract or try the enriched soy or rice milks. they have the same amount of calcium, they just have less fat and protein so you kind of have to make up for them in other ways.

-----
nipple pain: i used to get nipple pain when i was gearing up to ovulate and when AF was about to make an appearance. nowadays its pretty constant (ah the joys of nursing while pg) but it could be a hormonal/cycle thing for those of you with older babies. or as someone already suggested, it could be a lazy latch. stella has gotten sloppy lately, and i read in "adventures in tandem nursing" that it is very common for older babies to change their latching technique as they grow.

[catmom]

Gosh, I can't even remember if I posted in here about this or not! DD lost some weight, and our LC thinks it is because I haven't been eating enough. I am happy to say that I've increased my calories by about 600 a day, and DD seems much happier now. I thought she might be fussy because she was having problems with dairy in my diet, but she's been so much calmer since I upped my calories that I don't think that was the issue. I even bought a baby scale, and she seems to be gaining again. The problem is that she's still nursing every hour or so during the day. Some days I might be able to get her to go 2, but for the most part it's every hour all day long (unless she's napping). I have been taking 6 pills of fenugreek a day since friday in the hope that it will up my supply, but so far it hasn't helped. I am about at the end of my rope. I knew when I had a baby I would have to give up some of my regular activities, but I didn't know it would be ALL of them. If she eats every hour for 20-30 minutes, I have almost no time to do anything else. I can't even cook dinner... DH has to heat up frozen tv dinners for us. I can't go to the grocery store, or anywhere else that's more than 10 minutes from my house. For the past month I can't even nurse in front of the TV, talk on the phone while nursing, or nurse with another person in the room because DD gets too distracted. So I pretty much spend 2/3 of the day staring at the wall in my bedroom. My DH hardly gets to spend any time with her, because by the time she eats and gets a diaper change, she's almost ready to eat again. I tried supplementing her the other day, but it seemed to make her really gassy so I'm going to try again tomorrow with a different formula. I am about a week away from weaning her completely... I never knew nursing would be so difficult or so exhausting. Is there anything else I should be trying?

Ugh... DD is with DH, and she sounds like she wants to nurse again. It's only been 45 minutes.

Oh.. she's 4 months old, if that makes a difference.

[BridalLace]

does anyone know if there is an antihistamine that is recommended for breastfeeders? i don't want my antihistamine to dry up/hinder my milk production, but i need to take an antihistamine sometimes for my allergies.

thanks for any advice,

Heather

[Toonces]

does anyone know if there is an antihistamine that is recommended for breastfeeders?
Benadryl is safe to take while BF'ing. I take it every now and then. I think if you follow the dosage information you shouldn't have to worry about your milk drying up. I haven't had any problems, but I usually only take one tablet (25 mg) b/c Benadryl works so well for me.

[nancy drew]

catmom first of all {{{{hugs}}}} to you, i so know how you feel. it took quite a while before i stopped feeling like such a milk machine. how long has it been since you increased your calories and noticed a difference? i ask because it can take a while for your supply to balance out with the new demand for more food. also, do you have a sling? if you put your baby in a sling you can discreetly breasfteed while doing other things. i remember being so happy to finally take my daughter to the nearby park, because i felt exactly like you did, by the time i finished nursing, changed her, got myself ready, and got out the door, it was time to nurse again. i started nursing her in the sling as we walked and by the time we got to our destination she was good to go and we could relax and enjoy the park. also a change in scenery might help distract her and maybe she can go slightly longer stretches between feedings, if she is ready for that. im sure a change in scenery will also help lift your own mood, once i started getting out for walks with my daughter i found i was in a much better mood and i didnt feel like i was spending all my time chained to the glider any more.

hope some of that is helpful. :)

[lil_nance]

DS is 1 wk old. We are working on BFing. We used a SNS in the hospital and first day or two home. BFing with some EBM since then. He had a really difficult time at one point, very gassy and thus fussy. Think it was just his digestive system transitioning. Things have been a more regular yesterday and today.

The problem is he has at least 2 feedings a day where he'll be VERY fussy and aggitated. Frantic rooting but refuses to latch or latches incorrectly (just licking, not sucking) then he'll push away and SCREAM his head off. How do I help him and me when he's in the frantic stage. I try calming him down and then try again but it's not working. A couple of times I've ended up pumping and using that. Note: His suck is great when he chooses to use it. When feeding well, he'll do 10-20 min on one breast and sometimes take the 2nd breast sometimes not. Is this just normal newborn adjustment? Is there anything else I should try? Could it be something in my diet and thus milk?

[moderngal]

lil_nance- congrats on your DS. :)
My son did the same thing a lot at first, too. I think it's fairly normal though. The things that I found helped were swaddling him before nursing him and rocking him during feeding, which was a little hard to get the hang of at first since I needed a lot of pillows, but did get easier.
I never switched my diet- DS has fussy periods, but I don't think more than any other baby. Everything I've read seems to indicate it's pretty normal for babies to fuss at the breast here and there.

[char473]

Hoping for some help!

DD is 2 weeks old, and I have been BFing since birth. Problem is, she seems to be constantly hungry, I'm talking she could eat every 30 mins. And she is at the breast for about 30-40 mins if I let her. And I am feeding every 2 hours during the day. I finally got a pump and decided to pump, so I could see the amount I was producing. So in the morning, after not nursing for about 4 hours, I pump, and all I get from both breasts is about 20 cc, or 1 ounce. This seems so small to me. So I have started supplementing with formula, and she seems to like that.

So my question is, will my milk eventually catch up to her? Or is this a problem that is not going to go away? I very much want to just BF exclusively, but at the same time, don't want her going hungry :( Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!!

[myshel]

I just gave birth to DS this last Thursday. He was extremely mucousy post birth and did not take to the breast very well. Saturday morning, DS started suckling quite well and had two good feedings. We went home Saturday afternoon.

Once we got home, DS became extremely fussy and wouldn't really take to the breast at all. He would sit with my nipple in his mouth but not suck.

Part of my bf plan with the LC was to try to offer DS the breast first and if he didn't take it, pump and try again. If he didn't take the breast at all, I was to offer him what was pumped and supplement with formula as needed so that DS gets 15-30 cc's per feeding.

A couple of issues:

1. DS literally refuses to take the breast at all. As mentioned, he just lays with nipple in mouth no matter how many times we reattach. Usually, he gets fussy and won't calm down.

2. I'm pumping with a Medela PIS. I am getting zero from doing this. I find that very little colostrum/ milk ends up in the bottles-- we're talking less than a drop from both breasts. We've gone over the instructions with the pump to see if we've done it wrong but can find nothing. (Also, I've noticed that my areolas are always very moist as is the horn of the pump but none goes into bottle)

3. DS is taking the formula well but this wasn't really what we had planned on doing. I've called the LC and she has said to not focus on how much milk I'm pumping out and just go with the formula for now. She said to just keep pumping.

4. I went to the ER this morning with a fever and dehydration (due to diarreha and vomitting overnight). This isn't helping things out at all.

5. I don't know if my milk has "come in."

Can anyone please offer any troubleshooting advice, assistance, or kind words? This has got me feeling a bit down.

[scout]

char I'm no nursing expert, but maybe I can help a bit before Marisa or the other experienced ladies check on this thread. Problem is, she seems to be constantly hungry, I'm talking she could eat every 30 mins I know in the beginning, my ds wanted to eat all the time. I was seriously feeding him constantly. I think that the constant suckling will signal your breasts to produce more milk. He may be going through a growth spurt already. I would just let him nurse as much as he wants at this point. I know it's hard. Also--don't judge by the amount your're pumping. In the beginning, the baby will get more out of your breast than the pump will. I know that formula feeding can be counterproductive because your breasts will think that they don't need to produce as much milk.

myshel my ds had the EXACT same problem as your baby! He had so much mucous in him that he refused to nurse. We had a very rocky start to nursing because of this--I almost gave up. In fact, every day I said, "I'm not cut out for this." My dh was really supportive and encouraged me to keep at it. I don't want to give bad advice since I don't know if being dehydrated will hvae an effect on your milk, but I will say that the "C-HOLD" (make a C with your hand and squash your boob like a sandwich) helped me to get ds to get a better latch when he was refusing the breast like your ds. (Congrats on your baby, by the way!!!) My milk came in four days pp and my breasts felt really heavy. If I squeezed them, milk came out. Pumping didn't work for me until later, so I don't know if pumping is a good judge of milk right now. I remember very well how frustrating it was in the beginning and if not for the ladies on the bfing forum and my dh, I would have given up. As it is, my ds is five months old and doing great! CHEERING YOU ON!!! YOU CAN DO IT!!!!

[catmom]

NancyDrew: Thanks for your support. I never did get the hang of nursing in the sling.

So I took the fenugreek for 2 days and ended up with another nasty case of plugged ducts. As if that weren't enough, it also gave DD diarrhea, and didn't seem to improve my milk supply at all. DD is still nursing every hour or so during the day.

I had a long talk with my DH and my mother, and I have decided to wean. It has gotten to the point where I no longer even feel guilty about it (okay, that's not totally true, I do feel badly). I am so exhausted from the constant feeding that I don't have enough energy to take care of my daughter, and I think she needs her mother more than breastmilk. Her problematic weight gain is another consideration.

I am going to talk to my LC tomorrow about how to proceed... I know I need to wait for DD's diarrhea to resolve before I introduce anything new, and we are going on vacation in a few weeks so I'm wondering if I need to wait until we get back before I start. I also wonder if it's possible for me to keep one or two breasfeeding sessions going. So much of the bf-ing information is written by people of the "all or nothing" school, so I don't know if it's possible to continue to BF once or twice a day if you are feeding mostly formula, or if your milk dries up once you are bf-ing so infrequently.

Thanks, Marissa, and everyone else for all your help. I am pretty proud of the fact that I've continued as long as I have, and I hope that I am able to continue part-time breastfeeding a while longer.

[Koala_Gurl]

catmom - You are doing the best for both of you!

I was going to sympathize...DD is also 4 months, and it seems like she eats every hour. But, she can go 12 hours at night without eating, so she must be trying to make up for lost time!

Question for anyone...are there still growth spurts beyond the 3 month one? (Forgive me...I can't even remember what the GS intervals are!)

DD has been sleeping from 8 - 7 for some time now, and has started to wake up again at 4am for a feeding (in addition to eating all day long!)

[lil_nance]

myshel I'm another July mom and just wanted to sympathize. DS was born on 7/15. He refused most of yesterday, today he's been going on great (fingers crossed this continues). My milk came in Tuesday. My breasts were swollen and full feeling. Started being able to pump productively yesterday or day before. I'm using the Avent Isis pump. Before my milk came in we were formula supplementing. Just wanted to say hang in there, I'm sure we'll all survive this. Gotta go DS just rang for dinner. :)

[myshel]

Nancy: Thanks so much. Your reply literally made my day. I've been teary eyed all day at the prospect that I can't get DS to bf at all. He seems fairly content with the formula feeding for now and knowing that my milk may take a long time to come in is comforting.

DH and I made the attempt to get DS to latch on this afternoon. I have to pump to get my nips erect enough for latching. Usually because DS doesn't latch right away, they got soft. Is there anything you can suggest to make to help this problem? DH seems to think this may be part of our problem.

Thanks, Scout, for the support. It made feel feel better.

[maggieb]

myshel: One thing that may help with the pumping is getting large horns. My LC said that the ones that come with the PIS are too small for most women and in fact, Medela is going to use the larger horns with the new PIS. I bought them for $5 each through my LC. It really helped my output when I pump.

[happy1nuv]

myshel ~ You can try using nipple shields - i forget who makes em, but you can get them at bru. They helped out big time in the beginning,,, but i'm finding them to be a double edged sword because now ds won't let me get rid of them... (not necessarily a bad thing, just a pita)

[Koala_Gurl]

Nancy: ...DH and I made the attempt to get DS to latch on this afternoon. I have to pump to get my nips erect enough for latching. Usually because DS doesn't latch right away, they got soft. Is there anything you can suggest to make to help this problem? DH seems to think this may be part of our problem...

I used nipple shells (?) from Medela (they are worn while NOT feeding, but what they do is press down around the nipple to help pull the nipple out.) They seemed to work pretty well for me!

ETA: I used the "soft shells" (about 2nd / 3rd product down...) http://www.medela.com/NewFiles/breastcare.html

[Mickey&B]

I found out I have the same problem, and although I haven't started nursing yet my LC said to use the medela breast shells as Koala Gurl suggested.

[Marisa]

I am posting from Quebec City, on vacation, so I don't have much time to post, but I did want to say WELCOME to all the new babies, and *HANG IN THERE* to all the new mommies. You can make this breastfeeding thing work, really you can. :)


Oh, and... I had to use the breast shells too, and a nipple shield -- I didn't have much for him to latch onto. After about a month of that my nipples actually permanently changed shape, and I was able to 'wean' from using them.

[lady1297]

Congrats to all our new mommies out there! And hang in there! It DOES get better after the first few weeks. Remember, those babies of yours were used to eating 24/7 and now we think they need to eat every few HOURS!! It takes time for the little ones to learn that concept!

I finally got a pump and decided to pump, so I could see the amount I was producing.

As for those of you pumping. It takes time for the body to learn to respond to the pump since the pumping action is so different from the sucking of babies. Mechanics TRY to make it similar, but it's not THAT similar. Also, some people NEVER pump well and still breastfeed for years. I'm one. I don't pump well and DS is 11 months old and still being breastfeed. I NEVER get more than 2 oz TOTAL. No matter how engorged I am. It is NOT indicitve to how much your baby is getting. PLUS your milk is custom made for your baby, so the fat content is what he needs. Even if he only got 2 oz of milk per feeding it COULD have more fat init than 2 oz of formula so it's enough for him. His body needs FAT and PROTEINS which are power packed into the breast milk. So oz for oz, it's different from formula. So don't get discouraged by low pumping production. Just keep putting your baby to the breast when he/she asks. It's time consuming, but what better way to get DH to do the cooking and dishes! :)


Supplementing with formula Please, to those of you trying to supplement with formula. TRY not to. It makes such complications. If your body doesn't know that you need those oz that you are giving in formula so it won't make those oz. Putting the baby to the breast is the best option. If you have to do anything, pump after you nurse, then after you pump, put the baby back to the breast. It's an all day process. But with adding a bottle, you are adding more clean up after. I did this for 2 months. So I do understand the desire to supplement. If you are desperate for a breakk, I totally understand giving a bottle, but try to limit it as much as possible.

HUGS and Happy Breastfeeding!

[Lydia]

I just had to share this-I was nursing DD in a restaurant Saturday night and it was PACKED. A woman came by and complimented me on my nursing in public! It made my day. Also, Sunday was DD's 3 month birthday and my 3 month mark at BFing!

[Lydia]

myshel: One thing that may help with the pumping is getting large horns. My LC said that the ones that come with the PIS are too small for most women and in fact, Medela is going to use the larger horns with the new PIS. I bought them for $5 each through my LC. It really helped my output when I pump.

I found that with the PIS Advanced, the horns that came with it worked well but then one stopped working altogether. I think it had to do with the assembly.

The horns came off, then there was another part with the threads that a bottle can screw on to, then the yellow thingy and the white membrane. So 4 parts for each side.

When the one stopped working, I bought a replacement. The horn and the threaded part were one piece and it worked sooooo much better. (so only 3 parts per side) I immediately ran out and bought another replacement for the other side. The one piece thing worked out much better.

I know this doesn't make that much sense but those of you who have the PIS know the parts I am talking about! (I don't know the names of them!)

[marchfamily]

BF almost 7 months. Has anyone experienced peeling nipples? Both of my nipples are peeling around the base. It happened a couple weeks ago and then got better. I make sure to let them thoroughly dry before putting my bra back on. My DD is back to biting which is making things quite difficult again.

[dexters]

Thanks to all of you for your help with my daughter's BF issues. I took your advice and had a "nurse-in", feeding her basically nonstop for days (Thank GOD for Tivo and Netflix!!). She gained 4oz in a week, which I thought was great, considering she was only up 1.7 lbs in two months. However, the ped said it was not sufficient, she needs to gain a minumum of an OUNCE a day, and I had to supplement her with bottles after nursing her.

So I have been offering her a bottle of EBM after some feedings if she stills acts hungry after nursing both sides. She will sometimes take 3oz from a bottle immediately after nursing!

The last several days, she just screams when I put her to the breast. She will actively suck for 5 minutes and then scream her head off. I know I am not empty because I can still squirt milk across the room. So I switch sides (which I know I am not supposed to, hind milk, etc.) but it is the only way to keep her interested. Sometimes after eating from both breasts she still acts frantically hungry. I feel like I have a good supply, and I have been taking fenugreek and oatmeal regularly.

I called the LLL and a LC, but all they suggested was using breast compression during feedings/pumpings.

Please help me. I am at my wit's end. She seems so miserable, and I am in turn miserable. Nursing sessions are not a sweet, bonding experience, but a stressful, screaming mess. I want nothing more than to continue breastfeeding my daughter, but I need her to gain weight. She is almost 3 months old and is only 8.2 pounds. I feel like I am starving her.

I started back to work today, so I can no longer nurse her round-the-clock. I have been waking her up at night to feed her (she had been STTN), but of course she just screams and fights the breast and doesn't get in a good nursing session, or so I feel.

I REALLY don't want to have to give her formula or worse, stop BF altogether, but my ped is really pressuring me to do so. :( :(

Is there anything I can do to make my milk more caloric? Why the sudden refusal to nurse?

[happy1nuv]

dexters ~ Sometimes nic will suck for a few then stop... one of 2 things usually work for us. We'll do a bunch of 5 min sessions, switching sides for each. Or, geting him to burp (sometimes dh does that part... nic's more likely to calm down and burp for him, where he'll just kind of head butt my chest and otherwise freak out) Not sure if that will help at all... but hopefully something will work for ya!!

[diedra1027]

dexters - My Goodness, I'm sorry things have been so rough on you guys! I'm not sure if I have any good suggestions for you, occasionally Avery will kind of refuse to nurse even though I know the boob is 'full'. I usually go with her flow and just put her on the other side. As far as the weight gain, I thought that the average weight gain for a breastfed baby was 4-6 oz a week (I'll see if I can find where I read that). If that's the case - you baby's weight gain is perfectly normal. My baby also gains 4 oz a week. My ped has been semi-concerned with Avery's slow weight gain, but it's pretty much the norm for kids in my family and she's hitting all the other milestones just fine so the doctor lets us just do our thing. Other than the slow weight gain, how is your baby doing?

ETA: links toWeight gain information (http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/growth/weight-gain.html) and an article that you might find reassuring: Look at the baby, not at the scale (http://www.drjaygordon.com/bf/scales.htm)

[SiValleySteph]

Sorry all you new mommas are having so much trouble. :(

***

I feel like a freakazoid. I spent 4 days with DS (he was sick Thurs/Fri) and I have no milk supply now that I am back at work trying to pump. He doesn't like to nurse in the daytime (too busy), so now I can't pump hardly anything. :(

But it good news, tooth #8 finally popped through the gum and my nipple pain has drastically reduced. So I think the pain I was having was related to the new tooth.

[Marisa]

dexters -- I think that staying on one side is going to be quite important in getting her to gain more quickly -- she's getting the foremilk on both sides now, which is filling her up but is not as fatty as it could be.

Could there be something bothering her in the position that you're trying when she screams/fights/etc? Can you switch positions so that she's lying on her other side, but still getting the first breast? For some reason maybe she's just uncomfortable and can't get into nursing on that side for that reason.

Four ounces a week is on the low side of normal, but I can see why your ped would prefer an oz. a day. Anywhere from 5-7 oz. is acceptable.

Have you considered the possibility of something in your diet that is bothering her? Dairy/soy can be the most common culprit. If she is irritated by something in your milk, she may be associating 'eating' with 'discomfort' and therefore unwilling to nurse properly. A sensitivity may be affecting her gaining as well. It's something to think about, if you haven't already...

[moderngal]

I'm having supply issues again. :(
I had oatmeal for dinner tonight. What else can I do to up my pumping output and supply? Is there anything that could be decreasing my supply- a food or something? At this point, I am not pumping enough to meet my DS's demand and I *really* do not want to start supplementing.

[kakirk]

Thanks so much for the thoughts & advice re: gassy Lily & weaning from the bottle. We go to the peds tomorrow so we'll see how much they've gained in a week & hopefully get the OK to "officially" start weaning from formula (although we're not offering a bottle after some feedings anymore).

I'm not sure about this "let down" business though...I don't experience any sort of "let down" feeling when I nurse. Usually I feel very full when I start to nurse, but I never get a sensation that my milk has let down. The babies nurse for an average of 15 minutes (sometimes as short as 10 minutes, and up to as long as 30 minutes), and seem to be getting good sucks & swallows for the entire 15 minutes. I'm just worried that nobody is getting hindmilk, or that I"m not even making any.

Any thoughts/ideas about this?? I'm tandem nursing the majority of the time, if that makes any difference.

Katie

[emschwar]

Katie - FWIW, I never felt let down on the side I was nursing on. Only on the other side. So maybe with tandem nursing you wouldn't feel it at all? Just a thought.

[Marisa]

Katie, I never felt letdown for a long time either. I finally realized that when it was happening, I only felt a warmth spread around my back/shoulder blades, oddly enough -- it feels like when your muscles are warm after exercising or something. I never had the pins-and-needles feeling that some describe.

[ann2002]

Katie - I think that it is awesome that you are nursing your twins!!!

For me, the letdown sensation was more pronounced for me the older DS got - I have no idea why.... I think that it just may be different for everyone!

[diedra1027]

letdown - I'm another one who barely ever feels letdown. Just last week (10 weeks PP) I felt it for the first time and it wasn't what I expected. For me, I get a tingling sensation in the nipple. I haven't felt it when I am nursing either. The first time I felt it, it was when I heard another baby crying in the grocery store! DD is starting to take a consistant nap in the morning, I will often feel letdown just about the time she normally wakes up.

[bamboo]

moderngal -fenugreek is another galactagogue, like oatmeal. I'm bot sure where you can purchase it, but maybe in a health food store? There are some foods that can lower supply for some women- I think oregano, basil, parsley, maybe more. Can you use the weekends and/or evenings to try to have mini nurse-ins? Sorry you're struggling with it :(

Dexters I wondered about dietary stuff too- does your DD have gas problems? Is there anything you eat consistently that might be bothering her?

Katie - I've only just started feeling letdown at 3 months- it feels like a tingling in my nipples. I still don't always feel it though. Awesome job nursing twins!!

[Dreshny]

Has anyone else ever seen this behavior? My DS will often pull off my nipple and sort of look for a nipple next to it, if that makes sense. He pushes his legs aganst the Boppy and moves his head further and further toward the side. Then, when he doesn't find the nipple, he gets frustrated and sort of whines. He does it repeatedly, and every time I try to reposition him back on the nipple, he pulls off again. Usually he goes to full-on fussing after several times. I end up either offering him the other breast or ending the nursing session altogether.

Could this mean he isn't hungry? He seems to be rooting, but it's like he doesn't realize he already has the nipple in his mouth and he wants something else that's next to it. Weird. But it's very frustrating, and it happens several times a day. These days it's hard to get him to nurse sustainably without pulling off.

[mollyeilis]

I always noticed that when DS was doing that, if I let him (within reason; if it was killing me with pain, I'd stop him) continue, he'd get another let-down pretty soon, and then drink like there was no tomorrow. The two things he would do was latch on, pull off, root, latch, pull away, etc, and he'd also pull with his mouth/head, while pushing with his hands. Those two things, separate or together, would get more let-downs.

After I noticed this, I figured he knew what he was doing far better than I ever would. :)

[Tracy2002_04]

Katie- I didn't realize what I was feeling was letdown for months. It does sound like you have two active and vigorous nursers.

How are the poops? A foremilk/hindmilk imbalance will result in greenish poops. It can be hard to trust that everything is in working order, hang in there! And congrats on your little ones

[Dreshny]

molly: Thanks. I had no idea what that was. I let him do it this morning and noticed he swallowed a big mouthful of milk afterwards, so I guess he got what he wanted. :)

[happy1nuv]

Is there a growth spurt around 10 weeks? DS has been eating like there is no tomorrow...and waking almost every hour last night to eat. The only way I got any sleep at all is to sidelay and nurse... I slept for at least an hour - woke up - and he was still nursing ... he slept for a good hour or two without afterwards, but is going at it again... PLEASE tell me this is temporary!!

[HGMorgann]

happy my daughter has had quite a few growth spurt like days that pop up randomly since she was born - she had the 3, 6, and 3 month one, as well as a couple additonal ones:)

[diedra1027]

happy - We've had random growth spurt days here and there too. Instead of a six week spurt, Avery had one at 5.5 weeks and one at 7.5 weeks.

[Dreshny]

Yeah, we just had a random 8-week growth spurt...