Breastfeeding Help and Support [Archive] - Page 5

Marisa

09-25-2005, 05:43 PM

Holly -- I think any slobber would probably be helpful. ;)

saathei - I'm going to bet on the stuffy noses giving them trouble. The only times we had a "nursing strike" around here was when Joey was either teething or getting a cold -- something that made it uncomfortable for him to eat. In both cases giving him access to a bottle or sippy during the day got us through, I pumped when I could, and then he was receptive to nursing a little when he was sleepy.

Diane -- I wound up doing both dairy and soy -- the proteins in dairy and soy are very similar, and that's what babies tend to have a problem with at this age. (NOT the same as lactose intolerance, btw -- true lactose intolerance in a newborn is called galactosemia and would be a really big deal -- they screen for it right after birth.)
Anyway, I tried just switching all my usual dairy products to soy (soy ice cream, soymilk) and Joey went from rashy and uncomfortable to stinky and gassy and uncomfortable. So I dropped the soy as well and saw an improvement fairly quickly. I got used to using rice milk or almond milk in my tea and cereal... there are lots of good non-soy 'dairy substitutes' at the health food store...

chloe -- we co-sleep as well, and I've recently begun kicking around the idea of a toddler bed myself. Not that I don't love sleeping with my baby, I do. But I get the feeling that he sleeps a little more soundly when I'm not there. My plan is to get a small bed that fits his crib mattress (currently on the floor in his room since we disassembled the crib) and put it near our bed in the master bedroom. One transition at a time. He can start the night there and then join us when he needs to.
You might want to check out Dr. Jay Gordon's book "Good Nights", it's geared toward the family bed and has a section on nightweaning as well.
As for feeding on demand, it's what you're comfortable with. Once Joey started really eating solid foods several times a day (he's still quite a snacker, several small 'meals') then he dropped to 3-4 nursing sessions a day (counting overnight as well). Happy Birthday to your DD! :)

Jen -- I don't think that the deli meat has anything to do with it. :) But if you'd like to try feeding on the less-productive side first, that wouldn't be a bad idea. When you have oversupply, one of the dangers is that baby is filling up on watery 'foremilk' and not having room for the fattier hindmilk -- both are good (foremilk is thirst-quenching, hindmilk is nourishing) but obviously she needs the fat in order to gain rapidly as she's supposed to at this stage. It's fine to continue to nurse on one side too, even if you feel 'spent', because she will continue to get the rich, fatty milk as your body continually produces more. She won't starve -- her tummy is only the size of her fist, so I imagine she's getting plenty. ;)

yoganut

09-25-2005, 07:35 PM

Hi Ladies.

I was active in this thread on the 'other site' when DS #1 was younger and nursing. In preparation for DS#2's arrival, I have a question and would love advice from anyone who has read about this or with experience.

I had a rocky start to my bf relationship with DS #1 because of flat and semi-inverted nipples. My ob didn't say anything about them to me in advance, so I didn't really know I had an issue until I tried bf in the hospital. There they gave me some of the medela shells to wear in my bra, and it helped a little...but honestly I think it was a little too late. I ended up being dependent on nipple shields for the first 6 weeks, which was a huge PITA. Everthing worked out and nursing helped fix the nipple problem eventually. I am pleased with how bf worked out for us last time, and I nursed for 13 months (pumping once I was back at work) until DS self-weaned.

Now, I am 26 weeks pg with DS#2. I am really surprised, but it looks like my nipples have flattened out again. I brought it up to my ob, and she kind of blew me off. I am looking for advice on what to do. I have the shells from last time. Does anyone know how far in advance LLL or LC's recommend using them? I am really hoping to avoid the same issues I had last time, and get things off to a smoother start.

TIA!

dbers

09-25-2005, 07:40 PM

Thanks Marisa - I may try switching to soy first (actually my sister did this with her DD and it worked wonders).. but I'll be aware that I may have to give up soy as well. It's all worth it to make them more comfortable!

Cr8nme

09-25-2005, 08:12 PM

I have a concern: My DD is 3 weeks old today. We are making it through the growth spurt! However, she has begun to spit up 3 or more times a day. It comes out her mouth and nose. Also she burp a lot. I gave her some mylecon a couple of days a ago and that helped but the throwing up has continued. Any ideas on how to help her???

Michelle

lady1297

09-26-2005, 04:31 AM

Should I still be feeding on demand? How often? What if I want to wean except for morning and evening?

DS is 13months old a nurses on and off on demand all day. I figured, I don't ask anymore. He does. He'll hand me my boppy and climb onto my lap and nurse. But I did cut out the quick snacks. And I give him 2 milk sippies a day (although he doesn't drink much of it).

cynder

09-26-2005, 06:18 AM

DS went on a nursing strike this weekend. It was so upsetting. The weird part is that he continues to nurse for our morning session after he wakes up but won't nurse during the day or night. I am a working mom so we have one session in the AM and 1-2 in the PM. I try to nurse all throughout the weekend but he would scream anytime he came near my boob. He was fine with EBM in the bottle. And nothing in my diet changed this week. I did work out very heavily on Sat. I heard that this might affect it but then why would DS nurse in the AM.

Any advice?

SD601

09-26-2005, 06:41 AM

Michelle, my DS spits up much more frequently during his growth spurts. He just eats and eats and eats and then spits up and then eats again. If the silly boy would just stop eating...anyway, his gets better afterwards. He's currently going through a six week growth spurt, now. Joy...

Update on the nipple shield: We are almost weaned off and he's nursing fine. It is soo much easier now without it. He'll be six weeks tomorrow. Thanks for all the input!

Question about travel: am I nuts to attempt a plane ride next weekend when he's almost 8 weeks old (3 weeks adjusted)? We are thinking about visiting the great grandmas when he's still little. I'm not very good at breastfeeding in public, so I usually give him a bottle of EBM if we are out. How do I transport BM on a plane? All my BM is frozen now. I would bring my pump to our destination. DH thinks it's going to be too difficult, but my grandma will not be around very much longer, so I want to go. Has anyone else traveled with such a little baby?

hmmm...maybe I'll post this elsewhere, too.

SiValleySteph

09-26-2005, 07:24 AM

just wanted to stop in and congratulate our own SiVallleySteph on a year of pumping and nursing! Way to go, Steph!

Thanks Sarah & lady! :D:D

The official day is tomorrow. I'm so happy that we were able to go the whole year without needing any formula. I'm very proud of myself, my baby and my husband for supporting us! :D

Montaukbea

09-26-2005, 10:08 AM

Thanks for all the great advice from this board! I have a question: DS is just over 8 weeks old and feeds every 2 hours during the day. When does the daytime feedings spread out more like the nightime feedings? Thanks so much!

Marisa

09-26-2005, 10:19 AM

cynder - is it possible that he's getting a cold or a tooth, are his ears bothering him? Physical discomfort is a common reason for a nursing strike (getting milk from the bottle is easier and uses different muscles so it might not be as uncomfortable). Perhaps he's still sleepy enough during the AM feeding, or he feels ok after a night of sleep, but as the day goes on he's not as willing.

I used the tips on Kellymom whenever Joey refused to nurse:
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/back-to-breast.html

SD - our first plane trip was when Joey was 4 mos old... not quite as little, but similar. IMO it's easier to travel with them now, they'll sleep most of the time and they're much more portable!

If you can, pump before the trip and bring fresh milk (refrigerated is fine, just not frozen). Get one of those insulated lunch bags and pack the bottle(s) with some cold packs. Fresh milk can stay good up to 10 hours at normal room temperature, so even longer when it's being kept colder. You should have no trouble.

Congrats on weaning from the nipple shield! It sounds like he just needed to get a little past his actual due date and he's getting it figured out!

Steph - I can't believe it's been a year! Go you! :)

montauk - in our case, Joey started spacing feedings a little more after the 3 month growth spurt, though I wouldn't say he was really able to consistently go 3+ hours until after the 6 month spurt. Since BM is digested pretty easily -- within an hour and a half usually -- it's not uncommon to have frequent feedings while baby is still receiving most of their nutrition from breastfeeding. However, another bonus is sometime around 3-4 months they get so *good* at it that a normal nursing session might take only 10 minutes or so. They're stronger, they can take in more at once. So instead of being parked on the couch for 45 minutes, you're only there for 5-10 minutes, and you can get on with your day. :)

cynder

09-26-2005, 11:29 AM

Steph Congrats on your big milestone. You should be really proud.

Marisa He has been a little congested the last few days. I thought the same thing about being drowsy in the morning which is why I ambushed him yesterday as soon as he was stirring. But then this morning he was playing in his crib for about an 40 minutes nicely before I got up to nurse. He was wide awake, grinning like a fool and nursed great. The real test will be to see if he nurses tonight. Thanks anyhow!

chloechloe

09-26-2005, 11:32 AM

TODAY is DD First birthday! And we are still bfing! WOOOHOOO

SiValleySteph

09-26-2005, 11:33 AM

TODAY is DD First birthday! And we are still bfing! WOOOHOOO

Happy birthday to your DD! And congrats! :D

Oh, and I nurse DS to sleep almost 100% of the time, but he has no problem with a sitter. He goes to parent's night out 1x a month and goes to sleep there fine and we have had a sitter in our home once and my mom has watched him 2 or 3 times and he has been able to go to sleep without nursing and with minimal crying.

Daniel's Kitty

09-26-2005, 12:14 PM

Congrats on one year!

Question? About how much do babies take at one time when they are 6 weeks? I can pump about 7 ounces and Ben drains me with his feedings. He isn't chubby or any thing, he barely fills out 3-6 month pants and they are the right length. I don't want him to be hungry, I am just curious. I know he is a little piggy

Sarah

09-26-2005, 12:59 PM

My DD is 7 weeks and on the big side for her age, and will take about 2-3 oz in a full feeding from a bottle (of EBM). I don't know how much she takes from the breast, though.

Chloe- Congratulations! I remember hitting the one year and two year marks and being so nostalgic and happy. You have given your baby an amazing start!!!

Koala_Gurl

09-26-2005, 01:14 PM

Hi all! I have a question that I hope some "experts" can advise me on!!

I am going for a day trip to a football game sans DD (flying in & out the same day). DD will be about 7 months, and I am still BFing. We will be gone for about 13 - 14 hours. I hadn't even thought about pumping, but I don't want to "ruin" my supply (I haven't really had issues with it before, so I am not *too* worried.)

Will not pumping really affect my supply? Should I bring my PIS as my purse for that day (I can't imagine pumping at the game, but at least at the airport???) I figured some pumping would be better than none??

SiValleySteph

09-26-2005, 01:20 PM

I am going for a day trip to a football game sans DD (flying in & out the same day). DD will be about 7 months, and I am still BFing. We will be gone for about 13 - 14 hours. I hadn't even thought about pumping, but I don't want to "ruin" my supply...

I don't know about ruining your supply, but I'm pretty sure you are going to want to pump at least a little bit for your own comfort. You'll probably get engorged if you are used to feeding your DD multiple times during the day. I have friends who have pumped at the airport/on the plane before and both got a lot of positive comments! :)

Have fun at the game!

SiValleySteph

09-26-2005, 01:23 PM

Oh, and thanks marisa & cynder. I can't believe it's been a year. Sniff, sniff.

MurphysLaw

09-26-2005, 02:28 PM

I got this in an email a while back and thought I would share...nothing really important, just hoping to give everyone a little smile. :)

Mothers Milk

Students in an advanced Biology class were taking their mid-term exam.

The last question was, "Name seven advantages of Mothers Milk," worth 70 points or none at all.

One student, who had also partied the night before, was hard put to think of seven advantages.

He wrote:
1. It is perfect formula for the child.
2. It provides immunity against several diseases.
3. It is always at the right temperature.
4. It is inexpensive.
5. It bonds the child to mother, and vice versa.
6. It is always available as needed.
And then, the student was stuck.

Finally, in desperation, just before the bell indicating the end of the test rang, he wrote
...
...
...
...
...
...

7. It comes in such cute containers.:D

PrincessCrappy

09-26-2005, 04:03 PM

Help! My 3.5 week old is trying to rip off my nipple! He has been a champion nurser since day one -- however he is starting a very painful habit. While nursing he will suddenly start screaming and thrashing his head back and forth, throwing his arms and legs around and pulling my nipple while it's in his mouth with all his might. What's going on? Is my milk coming out too fast? Too slow? Is he simply trying to take my nipple with him? Sometimes when I'm able to remove him after one of these fits, he'll fall right asleep. Other times he'll root around like crazy until he's latched on again. It's happening at almost every night feeding and probably every other session during the day. Any thoughts? Suggestions?

maggieb

09-26-2005, 04:35 PM

PrincessCrappy: My guess is that he's reacting to either a fast letdown or is impatient b/c the milk isn't coming out as quickly as he'd like it to. Does he do this at the beginning of the nursing session, in the middle or towards the end? If it's the beginning it's probably a fast letdown, middle then my guess is that he wants more milk and you may want to try compressing your breast a little bit to get more milk out. Here's some info from kellymom (http://www.kellymom.com/newman/15breast_compression.html) on how to do a breast compression. If he's fussing towards the end of a session, then my guess is that he's done and wants to suck, but he's mad b/c milk is still coming out. Hope that helps some.

KimandGino: That's hilarious! :D

My little munchin has been spitting up since day one, has had numerous rashes, congestion and now has had green poop twice today. I have been dairy-free for most of her almost 3 mos of life and soy-free for about half of that. I really haven't seen much improvement in her symptoms. Today I decided that it's time for me to try the Dr. Sears Elimination diet so I can find out exactly what's bothering her. Has anyone successfully tried this diet and actually was able to pinpoint what was bothering your DC? DH and I went grocery shopping today for the foods and I had dinner and it wasn't too bad, but I can imagine that two weeks of this must get old. Anyone else?

moderngal

09-26-2005, 04:39 PM

Princess Crappy~ my DS did that, too. I was thinking that it was him trying to get another let down. I don't know though. I don't remember it lasting long though.

Have we discussed how to tell people to back off with their "advice" about BF'ing? I feel like lately more and more people have something to say about me BF'ing or me not giving DS solids yet. I know what we're planning to do and I am very confident in our decision to wait to introduce solids. And I've also gotten the "you're not going to BF your son until he's 5 are you?" lately. It's aggravating. My son isn't even 6 months yet and people seem to think I'm nuts. I dunno, I guess I just feel like I need a little support or comebacks to shut these people up.

gizzyntaz

09-26-2005, 04:42 PM

Maggie Are you talking about the turkey, rice, squash, pears & potatoes diet? I know that catgirl did it for awhile, I think she may have been successful. I tried it for a week after I had already unsuccessfully cut the big eight (dairy, soy, wheat, corn, nuts, etc.) After a week I was losing too much weight and was getting really depressed. I went to DS's ped. and he told me to continue cutting wheat & dairy, as those are the most likely culprits. After another month of that, we determined dairy was fine - wheat was not. I've been wheat-free since DS was 4 weeks old.

It's a drastic diet, and it may take 3+ weeks for your daughter to become symptom-free before you can start adding things back in. I would do it as a last resort...but, best of luck to you and kudos for being willing to take that step for your daughter!

- Alison :)

maggieb

09-26-2005, 04:47 PM

Alison: Yes, that diet! I could stand to lose a few pounds, but I do worry about variety and hating food. Has it been hard to be wheat-free? It seems like just about everything has wheat in it. Kudos to you too! Our peds have really blown me off when I tell them about Marisa's symptoms and tell me that I shouldn't cut anything out unless she's losing weight and/or has excema all over her body. I was so frustrated. She's not in pain anymore b/c she's on Zantac, but she is uncomfortable. I have been researching a new ped and think that I found a good one. I hope so. I just want a second opinion.

ahavnes

09-26-2005, 04:57 PM

Maggie- No advice, but I just wanted to say I'm sorry that you and Marisa are going through this! I hope you find a new (good) ped and get things cleared up soon. :)

(Hijack over)

Marisa

09-26-2005, 05:07 PM

Maggie -- I didn't have to go that drastic either, but I can sympathize. You definitely have my support and admiration! :)

moderngal -- I personally find that the AAP's new breastfeeding guidelines are really helpful in these situations, especially for the "older coworker ladies". I went back to work at the library briefly when Joey was around 6 mos, so all the helpful little old ladies who worked the counter wanted to tell me what it was like when their kids were little. You wouldn't believe their teething 'remedies' (involving lots of hard liquor)! :eek:

I got through those few months by doing a variation on "times have changed", but since the new guidelines came out in Feb. I'm more prone to bring that up as an authoritative opinion. i.e. --

Old Biddy: What?? That baby's not eating 'real' food yet? When my son was three weeks old we started him on meat!
Me: That's so interesting, because the American Academy of Pediatrics has come out with a new set of guidelines, blah blah, studies on obesity and diabetes, blah, waiting until at least six months... etc. Times have really changed, huh?

The AAP guidelines also specifically mention that babies are healthier if they are nursed for two years, and that nursing three years or longer has no harmful psychological effects as long as mom and baby are both willing.

http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;115/2/496

maggieb

09-26-2005, 05:37 PM

Thanks, Alicia and Marisa! The things that we'll do for these little ones! :D

Kiley

09-26-2005, 05:45 PM

Princess Crappy - DS does that too; usually because he has to burp.

gizzyntaz

09-26-2005, 06:04 PM

maggie I probably should go *back* on that diet to lose a few pounds. I've gotten used to wheat free substitutes and have been slowly adding weight back on!

When I did that diet I used salt & pepper and olive oil. We would cook a big turkey and then I would just have leftovers (because I know you can't have very much time to be cooking special foods for yourself!) I ate sweet potatoes and regular potatoes. I would make roasted red potatoes with rosemary. The potatoes would help fill me up because I am not a rice fan. There's also "natural" potato chips. I have a good oven fries recipe if you'd like it.

I *LOVE* food, so I found it depressing. Probably because I was already feeling deprived before I started.

Being wheat-free sucks. I haven't done enough research on it because I keep hoping DS outgrows it. Wheat is in everything. We like to eat out and it's really hard... Alan has had symptoms off and on ever since I went wheat-free which leads me to believe that wheat is "sneaking" into my diet (probably when I eat out) or there is something else in my diet that he reacts to.

Our pediatrician is not very informed about allergies/intolerances. We got really good advice/information when we finally took Alan to a GI specialist. If your insurance will cover it I recommend trying to find one. Do you live in the DC area? I seem to recall that maybe you do... If so, I'll recommend the specialist we go to - she has an office in Rockville.

We will be taking Alan to an allergy doctor when he is one. He seems to be growing more and more sensitive to wheat, so that's what the GI doc suspects - rather than just an intolerance.

- Alison :)

moderngal

09-26-2005, 06:06 PM

Marisa~ Thanks. :)
I have tried the "well the AAP now recommends..." and that works with my family. But some of the women I work with still don't buy it. They think that because they worked as early intervention therapists for so many years, they know best and blah blah blah. for now I just say things like "well, I'm just not ready" or something and then try to concentrate on my paperwork to deflect their comments. I just am sick of biting my tongue. I really would like to tell them where to stick it. Ugh.
I get enough grief for leaving my patients to go pump, I so don't need this crap now, too.

shellbell516

09-26-2005, 06:19 PM

PrincessCrappy My 5 week old DD does this same exact thing. I contribute it to being overly tired and ready to go to sleep because usually she'll fall right out after reattaching. She only does this near the end of her feeding session.

maggieb

09-26-2005, 07:43 PM

Alison: I would love that oven fries recipe. I love food too, especially cheese, so being dairy-free has been hard. I anticipate that this diet is going to suck in a big way. I took Helena to a GI specialist in VA when she was about 9 mos old for her reflux, but it didn't go much further since she outgrew it at about 10 mos and doesn't have any allergies/intolerances now. I would love to know about your specialist. Thank goodness we just switched insurances and we don't need referrals anymore. I am in DC. ROckville isn't too far for us. I hope Alan outgrows this soon. It's so hard on us, I can't imagine how hard it is on the little ones. Thanks for all fo your support.

kindermom

09-27-2005, 05:47 AM

Daniel's Kitty - FWIW - My DD is just about 6 weeks. We are fortunate that she has been a great nurser from the get go (especially because she was so small at birth). As of last week, she was gaining an average of 1.5 ounces a day (compared to .5 to 1 ounce expected gain). She will empty one side in 10 minutes. At the same time she takes 3-4 ounces of EBM when bottle feed.

marchfamily

09-27-2005, 06:21 AM

Help...I'm at my wits end....

DD is 8.5 months old. I am 7.5 weeks pg. My supply has been terrible the last 2 months. Pumping yields much less than it used to. My DD has taken to biting me during nursing (she has 2 bottom teeth - and I don't see other breaking the gums). She seems very dissatisfied while nursing and a minute into it will bite me. I've tried ending the nursing session, "no bite", etc. Nothing seems to work. Last night she bit me right away. I unlatched her, told her "no bite" and pulled away. She instantly started the "oh my god, I'm so hungry" guppy mouth - and I resumed nursing. She nursed nicely for approx 30 seconds and bit me again.

I'd like to be able to nurse until one year. We recently started supplementing because of my supply issue. If the biting continues and my supply doesn't rebound....I think I'll have to stop nursing. Any thoughts or suggestions?

LeslieR

09-27-2005, 06:35 AM

PrincessCrappy, Luke does that, too. It's very frustrating. I've found that it's usually because he needs to burp OR he's overtired. HTH!

NYN

09-27-2005, 07:01 AM

I just realized that I eat deli turkey meat almost every day - could that be causing trouble?
weird that you mentioned this b/c my dd kept on spitting up and breaking into a rash all over her face and shoulders and i realized it would only happen on the days that i ate turkey deli meat. i stopped eating cold cuts all together and one day i gave her some milk from my frozen stash and it happened again. i had been keeping a food diary b/c of the rash and i saw that i had eaten turkey deli meat that day also. i am 99.9% sure that was the culprit as it is the only thing i have cut from my diet and the rash never came back and she no longer spits up the way she used to.

on advice: my dd is only 9 weeks and i have been surprised to hear the "you're still breast feeding?" comments. i also hear a lot of the teething comments but in a more offensive way, as in "i think when they have teeth it's time to stop." i really do find it offensive but most of the time i am so tired i don't even have time to respond in any real way. the other day my cousin asked me if i was going to be one of those people who breast fed after the kid started walking and i told her i promised i'd stop before DD went to kindergarten. :)

kindermom

09-27-2005, 07:33 AM

PricessCrappy - My DD does the same thing towards the end of at least half of her feedings (she only feeds on one side most of the time). I find that if she is thrashing and I switch sides, she will nurse for a minute or so and then fall asleep.

Maggie - Thank you for the information on thrashing. I was wondering why my DD thrashed.

the other day my cousin asked me if i was going to be one of those people who breast fed after the kid started walking and i told her i promised i'd stop before DD went to kindergarten. :)That is too funny.

lady1297

09-27-2005, 08:04 AM

[QUOTE]on advice: my dd is only 9 weeks and i have been surprised to hear the "you're still breast feeding?" comments. i also hear a lot of the teething comments but in a more offensive way, as in "i think when they have teeth it's time to stop." i really do find it offensive but most of the time i am so tired i don't even have time to respond in any real way. the other day my cousin asked me if i was going to be one of those people who breast fed after the kid started walking and i told her i promised i'd stop before DD went to kindergarten.QUOTE]

OMG!! I was one of those people who said, once teeth come in, I'm done...Now I'm 13 months into it and have no sign of stopping!! And we've got 6 teeth. I think no one wants to ask me how long I'm going to do it. Although DH is now saying as long as Edward doesn't act like that kid on ER the other night ("Mommy, I'm hungry NOW") I can keep going with his full support!! Since I highly doubt he'll do that (he's a comfort nurser now), I'm not worrying. And my comback when people act miffy is the Doctor is encouraging me, so I don't see the harm just yet. :) AAP is too foreign around here to use, so I just state the doctor. I have given up most NIP and at my mom's house though since it's too hard to keep him focused, so I think that cuts down on the comments and stares. But I do it if I need too...

cc8

09-27-2005, 08:13 AM

Did a search on this thread. I think I may have a plugged duct on my left side. Dividing the breast into four "quadrants", the lower left quadrant is hard as a rock and KILLS (been like that since last night). I pumped a lot from that side this AM but the hardness/pain are still there.

Other than nursing on that side/pumping and applying a warm compress, is there anything else I should be doing? I don't want this to turn into mastitis or something worse! I am going to call the doc at 9am.

adore_one

09-27-2005, 09:22 AM

cc8 - I had a plugged duct like that and I actually applied a TON of pressure while I was pumping and saw many more streams of milk - so I kept doing that until the milk stopped and that helped a ton. I told the LC that I did that and she said - perfect. Also said the warm compress can help as well.

jeggink

09-27-2005, 09:26 AM

cc8 I just also had a plugged duct. I just nursed, and nursed as much as possible, even when empty. Nursing will be more effective than the pump. I also used heat in the form of a rice sock heated up and massaged the area A LOT, then BF. I was sooo sore and had a nice red area on my BB where it was plugged. Finally when it went away I felt a sharp stinging sensation in my nipple while DS was BF'ing and the soreness went away over a day or two.

If it doesn't go away soon, definately see a dr. I hapened to have my 1-yr OB visit the day after the plugged duct was gone and he saw the red spot and said that if it got worse to call him back as I may need antibiotics.

BTW, I think wearing an underwire bra for one day is what did it for me :(.

Marisa

09-27-2005, 09:53 AM

lady - I'm willing to bet that NO five-year-old acts like that kid on ER the other night. How unrealistic -- if a child that old was still nursing at all, it'd probably be a very sporadic "comfort" kind of thing, maybe a bedtime thing... CERTAINLY not a "OMG I'm STARVING" kind of thing. Seriously, with all due respect to extended nursers, that kid needed a sandwich. :)

march -- you're in a tricky situation right now, since it's the hormones affecting your supply. There's really not too much you can do about increasing it, since your body is not going to cooperate ultimately. What you can try to do is give a little formula before nursing, so that she's not super-hungry when she goes to nurse. If the biting is related to her frustration at your low supply, this might help satisfy her a little, and then she will settle in to nurse for the remainder of her feeding.

NYN - I'm not surprised you're hearing those comments already around here. You'd think in the NY area you'd have more 'enlightened' people around, but I'm really in the minority in my area (10 mi from Manhattan)... Most of the moms at Gymboree had weaned already when our babies were only 4-6 mos. old, and I heard many times that they BF for 3-6 weeks "for the immunities" then stopped. As if the immunities stop after 3-6 weeks!

cc8 - you already got some good advice :), but I just wanted to chime in that Motrin (ibuprofen) can be helpful if you are in a lot of pain. It's safe to take while BFing.

Sarah

09-27-2005, 10:13 AM

That's interesting. What makes you think that?"
"I'm parenting the way that feels right to me."
"I respect your opinion and value your advice, but I have thought this out carefully and done a lot of research, and my mind is made up. I will be happy to respect your opinion and listen to what you have to say, but you have to respect my decision--and it is MY decision."
"As the mother of this baby, and because of all I've learned about the importance of breastfeeding, in my heart of hearts this is what I want - and need - to do for my child right now. If you love us both, you need to support me in this decision."
"You know how the medical community is always changing their recommendations. Well, this is what they recommend now--this is the best I have to go on, and I feel good about breastfeeding."
"We're working on weaning now." [Once solids are introduced, you're technically in the process of weaningthough it may take a few years.]
"This is what works for our family. Unless it becomes a problem, we're not going to change things." [Case closed- -save the arguments for someone who is truly interested in listening to them.]
"Why would I want to replace nursing with something that costs money and is nutritionally and immunologically inferior?" [This one is not exactly tactful, so consider who you're talking to before you use it.]
Responses to your parents:
"Now that I've become a mother, I have a new appreciation for what you went through for me, and I'm so thankful to be able to come to you for advice. It especially helps to know that you're going to support me in my decision to breastfeed, because that means so much to me."
"It's not that I resent you for not breastfeeding me - I don't. You made the decision that was right for you and your baby (me). I am making the decision that is right for us."
The "sandwich" technique sometimes works:
Say something complimentary first: "I'm so glad you are here to be with my children; Having a loving grandma like you is so important; You are such a wonderful grandma, just like I knew you would be."
Then make the point you are trying to make: "It really upsets me when you criticize my choice and my pediatrician's recommendation to breastfeed to the degree that I feel I might start to avoid visiting with you."
Then say something nice again: "That would make me sad because I know you love the children and I want them to have you in their life because you are so special."

hth, moderngal. from kellymom.com.
there's also always my fav comeback: "stfu!"

missy329

09-27-2005, 12:10 PM

Hello Everyone,

I need some advice please. When I had my DD (she's 17 months old now) I really wanted to BF. I tried for 3 weeks and I never had any milk. Well, I would pump and get about 2 tsps of milk. That was with about 20 minutes of pumping on each side. I would usually let my DD nurse, then pump. She had to go on formula because she was losing so much weight- presumably because of my low supply. I continued to pump and there were times I would not even get a tsp of milk. I talked to a LC and tried everything she said, cluster feedings and pumpings, ugh I can't remember all the other things now.
Anyway, that's my background. After about 3 weeks I just gave up- after a lot of crying and telling myself that I was going to be a horrible mother. Oh, by the way my mother was never able to produce milk either.
So, my question is this. I am now pg again. Yesterday was my first ob appt and he asked if I planned to BF. I have been thinking a lot about this. Did I do something wrong last time? Is there any hope of BF this baby? Should I just go straight to formula? I know everyone here is very pro BF and I am also but I just don't want to set myself up for the saddness that I felt last time.
OK, opinions and advice please. Thank you all so much!

lorbo

09-27-2005, 12:19 PM

if you really want to pump...you could try renting a hospital grade pump and see if that helps your supply...i had to rent, because DS was almost 8 weeks early, due to rh disease. i got the pump, maybe 2 days after he was born and i never ever realized i could produce soooo much colostrum with that pump-the nurses were in awe. that said, it helped me build and maintain my supply so that when DS did start nursing 3 1/2 weeks after birth, i was well on my way to a great stash of milk-does that help?

ETA-formula feeding doesn't make a bad mom! if you want to try again, and make the attempt and if it doesn't work out, you've done what you could!

missy329

09-27-2005, 12:38 PM

Lorbo- Thank you so much for your reply. I actually did rent a hospital grade pump last time. I know that I am not a bad mom- I came to terms with all that. It's just that we all know that breast milk is so much better for our babies and I just wanted to be able to give my daughter the best possible start in life. I just assumed it would work. Again thank you for your suggestions.

Cr8nme

09-27-2005, 01:08 PM

I too have cut out dairy only since yesterday though. I think that is what was making her throw up. Yesterday she didn't throw up at all. If I still notice it I guess wheat is next right?

Sandie78

09-27-2005, 02:13 PM

New mommy here with a question. How do I know when a breast is empty?

mollyeilis

09-27-2005, 02:57 PM

Interesting question. I'm no expert, but the breast is an amazing thing that continues to make milk. It's not a "bag" of sorts that can really empty fully, but a constantly working mechanism. :) I've been continually surprised at my guy, who will nurse and nurse and nurse, and I'll think "OK, my boob LOOKS empty, it's sad and deflated, he's been nursing for ages, it MUST be empty", and then suddenly his sucking will pick up, and I'll have a letdown of milk. It's just amazing what breasts can do. :D

**********
"I too have cut out dairy only since yesterday though"

FWIW, as a several-time-wannabe-vegan, dairy takes weeks to leave the system. So noticing a change one day after you giving it up isn't really likely to be b/c of the dairy reduction...

Man I wish dairy left the system that fast! :)

Cr8nme

09-27-2005, 03:50 PM

I see... that may explain why she threw up in the middle of the night several times :rolleyes: I guess I will just have to see how it goes

Marisa

09-27-2005, 04:28 PM

Sandie -- as Molly said, your breasts are actually constantly making milk. So you're never truly 'empty'. I think what you really want to know is, when is a feeding 'over'? Well... in the first 4-6 weeks, it seems like it's never over! :) Between the frequent growth spurts (big ones at 3 and 6 weeks) and the fact that newborns instinctively want to suck to build up your milk supply, it seems like some days are just one big long feeding... nurse, burp, switch, repeat. :) Anyway, you can be fairly sure that after about 10-15 minutes of nursing, baby has reached the fattier hindmilk and gotten at least one good letdown, so if you need to de-latch for some reason, he's gotten an acceptable amount.

Lisa -- I'm so sorry that you had so much trouble last time around. It can be so hard, especially if you're the first one in your family to BF, there's not the benefit of a role model, KWIM? Just a few things come to mind --

- talk to a IBCLC, before your baby is born. Talk to more than one if your insurance will cover it, or if the hospital where you'll deliver has one on staff. ;) You can find a *certified* lactation consultant through this directory:
http://www.iblce.org/US%20registry.htm

- There must be a reason for your problem. Women just don't have too little milk for no reason. Maybe it's a condition with your breasts, where there isn't enough glandular tissue (you can see hypoplasic breasts on this page to see if your breasts look similar: http://www.007b.com/breast_size_breastfeeding.php) Maybe it was a hormonal issue or retained placenta... there are a lot of possibilities. Talking to a professional may help you sort that out and prepare you to face it again this time around.

- Pumping is not going to give you a real picture of how much milk you're making. Many women don't ever respond well to a pump (even a hospital grade) but go on to nurse their babies just fine. My LLL Leader nursed her twins but never pumped more than half an oz (she says).

- Speaking of LLL, try to find the group in your area and talk to the Leader. She may have counseled women in your situation before and can possibly point you toward the right professionals to speak to as well. Find your group here: http://www.llli.org/WebUS.html
If nothing else, LLL can just be a great way to meet other nursing mommies to socialize with as well as bounce ideas off of. :)

That's it for now. I can sympathize with you, absolutely. My own DS did not gain any weight at all between the day he left the hospital and his two-week visit, in fact he didn't start gaining well until after he was 3 weeks old. Even though my own mom is an IBCLC, she sent me to another IBCLC who helped us get on track with longer feedings and pretty much saved us from supplementing. But I remember how scary it was to weigh him and see no change. I don't blame you for the choices you had to make, not a bit. :(

Sandie78

09-27-2005, 05:30 PM

lady1297

09-27-2005, 06:05 PM

lady1297

09-27-2005, 06:10 PM

Lisa, I second what Marisa said. I think it's worth looking into BF again. A IBCLC will be able to give you more info than we can, I'm sure. Keep us posted and best of luck!!

lady1297

09-27-2005, 06:13 PM

I have a hard time getting my baby to stay awake for the whole 10-15 minutes per breast. He just really wants to fall asleep. I try talking to him, tickling his feet, playing with his ear, etc. and he just really likes to sleep. But he seems to be pooping and peeing ok, so I guess he's doing all right...

As long as his diaper count is high enough, you're doing fine. :)

Have you tried a wet, cool washcloth to the back of the neck? Or baby pull ups? Those helped DS. Also, diaper changes and burps helped...oh man are the memories pouring back of late night feedings!!!

newyorkgirl

09-27-2005, 06:59 PM

DS and I are coming down from a multitude of problems - milk blisters, a case of thrush, and plugged ducts (which led to a 24-hr bout of mastitis and is still semi-plugged). I think we're getting better, but my question is this:

We're using gentian violet to treat the thrush and I've already been on www.kellymom.com to find all the ways to keep the purple stains off our clothes and ourselves. I don't care about the staining inside DS's mouth, but he has a rim of purple just on the inside of his lips. I don't think I should be using rubbing alcohol on his lips (or should I?), so is there anything else I can use to remove the purple?

(This is purely cosmetic. If there's no answer, that's okay. It's just that the grandparents are coming this weekend and I don't know that they want to take pictures with Mr. Purple Lips.)

Marisa

09-27-2005, 07:45 PM

Erika -- I've looked through a couple of books here and haven't seen anything helpful as far as removing/preventing the purple lips. In fact, a few of them seem to be implying that the purple lips are what you want, so you know that the entire area is getting treated...

I don't think rubbing alcohol is a good idea, no. :)

Sorry -- I'll let you know if I find out anything else. If nothing else, you can tell everyone that Grandma and Grandpa were sneaking him purple popsicles. :)

lady1297

09-28-2005, 04:10 AM

Erika:
They'll take pics anyway cause their grandparents! But I do understand the concern and have no answers for you. But I wanted to say I LOVE your new avatar!!!

newyorkgirl

09-28-2005, 07:03 AM

Thanks, Marisa, I figured as much. The grandparents will just have to live with it. ;)

And thanks, lady1297, for the compliment. :)

LeslieR

09-28-2005, 11:02 AM

adore_one

09-28-2005, 11:05 AM

Leslie - it is 20 points more. I am thinking of doing WW too...

Marisa

09-28-2005, 11:14 AM

Leslie -- I looked into it too, I was doing the older points system and it's 10 extra points per day (my range was something like 20-23 points per day -- it's been a while, I forget! :) -- so I would've been able to have 30-33 points per day while BFing.
(I wound up not doing it b/c I dropped 2 sizes at about a year postpartum, when Joey started walking. Go figure!)

Erika, I wasn't feeling very certain about the GV stuff so I emailed my mom after I posted, and here's what she had to say:

I'm just looking at the Hale book on Gentian violet, and I'm wondering if the baby's purple mouth could be minimized by what Dr. Hale suggests: gentian violet can be very irritating to the oral membranes in children, and he recommends diluting to 1/4-1/2 strenth with distilled water, dipping a swab in the solution, and having the baby suck on the swab. To my thinking, this would result in the solution staying inside the mouth, where it's needed, and with little or no staining of the lips. Using the swab method, the mom can also paint the g.v. directly on the affected areas.
I saw one recommendation for alcohol swabs to remove the stains- although this seems harsh, I guess a quick swipe over the lips couldn't hurt, and we do use it on the umbilical cord, so the absorption of a little alcohol won't be an issue. Another suggestion is Huggies baby wipes.

She also said that deli meats could potentially be irritating for baby, not because of the meat itself but because of the preservatives and fillers used, esp. in the processed meats (store-cooked turkey, etc., wouldn't really have this problem). She mentioned cornstarch as being one common ingredient which can also cause an allergic reaction. So I guess if you have a sensitive baby it's worthwhile to read the labels whenever possible...

I <3 having such a clever mom. :)

newyorkgirl

09-28-2005, 12:22 PM

Thanks, Marisa - I will try diluting the GV solution. And I went out and got the Huggies wipes today (since I normally use Pampers).

jrdhbunny

09-30-2005, 09:18 AM

To all of you in the NYC area- I just discovered that there is a BF boutique called Upper Breast Side (http://www.upperbreastside.com) (cute, huh?). The hours of operation are not great, for example they don't open until later, they close at 5 p.m., and they're closed on the weekends, but it looks like they have tons of stuff, plus a very supportive environment. They also say that they can answer pretty much any question you have about anything they sell. You can even test the products for a small fee. I can't wait until I'm working in the city one day so I can go!

AttyGrl74

09-30-2005, 09:27 AM

Anyone do Weight Watchers while bf'ing? I have an online subscription that I have been paying for over the past year and not using.:rolleyes: I'm considering giving it another go and I just did a search on their site to see how many more points you need if you are bf'ing, but found something instead that said you cannot do the online program while bf'ing. I just want to know how many more points you need. Anyone know? TIA!

I lost 45 lbs while BFing on weight watchers in the last 6 months - you give yourself 10 points per day extra or 2 points per nursing session.

You HAVE to make sure to get your water and fruits and veggies.

But I KNOW it works!

(I'd still be doing it if I wasn't pg with #2!)

celina

09-30-2005, 10:32 AM

New mom - Help needed

I have a one week old and my milk supply isn’t cutting it. In the last 12+ hours she’s only had one wet diaper. She’s always on the boob. I called the nursery at the hospital and they said to let her nurse for as long as she wanted as her constant nursing is encouraging my supply to increase.

I was thinking of pumping tonight in hopes of being able to measure how much milk she’s actually getting. That leads me to my question… How many ounces of breast mil does an infant need?

Thanks.

duke's flygirl

09-30-2005, 10:47 AM

Celina I'm sure that more experienced moms will tell you the same thing, but what you pump, isn't an indication of how much milk you are making. I didn't pump much with my DD, and when I did, I never got a lot, and my little girl was a chunky monkey! I don't know what to tell you about only one wet diaper though.

Just keep letting her nurse, and hopefully your BB's will get the hint and start producing more.

You are doing great! Keep going!

LeslieR

09-30-2005, 10:58 AM

Thanks for the replies about WW! I don't get why they won't let you do their online program if you are bf'ing. Very frustrating. That being said, I'm 9.5lbs below my pre-pg weight just from bf'ing alone! If that alone isn't a reason to bf, I don't know what is!:p I haven't been watching what I eat at all, so I can only imagine how much weight I would lose if I were doing WW as well. I have *a lot* of weight to lose that I should have lost before I got pregnant-I'm assuming at some point the weight loss just from bf'ing will slow down, no?

solongtogo

09-30-2005, 11:08 AM

celina your newborn will take anywhere from 2-3 ounces when she's this young...

Megande

09-30-2005, 11:09 AM

I need some support, commiseration, or something. DS is three months old. We are EBF, and I really love it. He refuses a bottle, and I haven't really pressed the issue much because I hate to pump and I'd rather him get it directly from the tap anyway :). But sometimes having to be around to feed him every 2 hours or so just makes me feel so limited and trapped. DH got awesome tickets to a college football game tommorow that I'd love to go to. But I can't because I can't be away from DS for that long. (Even if I left a bottle for him, he would put up a huge fight about taking it, and I don't have anyone to babysit him that I feel comfortable putting through all that. Both of our families are 7+ hours away).

There have just been lots of things lately that I'd love to do but I can't because of DS's feeding schedule. He is going to be EBF for the next 3 months, this is not a negotiable thing with me. Has anyone else felt like this? Any words of wisdom? I feel like I can't talk about it anywhere else because all of my friends either don't have kids or FF, and I don't want to say anything negative about BFing. The benefits so amazingly outweigh this issue. I'm just feeling a little sorry for myself since I'll be stuck home during the game tommorow.

happy1nuv

09-30-2005, 12:05 PM

megande ~ can you take the baby to the game with you? whenever i start feeling like that (i have it a lot easier since nic will take a bottle and his 2 gramas fight over who gets to watch him when i have somewhere to go) ... but, during the week when no ones around ... i just go out somewhere ... the mall, starbucks, library ... anywhere... its usually good for a pick-me-up ... plus nic's enough of a flirt at 4 mos, that i generally end up talking to someone, at least for a few min ...

now, here's a question. i am seriously jonesing for a pedicure. is it totally wrong to take nic w/ me and lt hi sit on my lap during? if he acts up, i can always just b/f...

and... 1 more... we're weaning of nipple shields. his latch is fine ... and the first 5 min are great. after that, he starts seriously tugging on my boob ...tug, grunt, pull off, dive back on. if i put the shield on, he sucks normally...take it off again...same thing happens. any ideas ? (oh, and this is only during the day/when he's awake ...if hes sleepy, he's fine w/o.... thanks

celina

09-30-2005, 12:55 PM

Lisa

Did C have any nipple confusion?

Breastfeeding is important to me, but at this point I don’t care how she gets the breast milk as long as she gets it, and with one wet diaper, she’s not getting enough through nursing. :(

Marisa

09-30-2005, 01:23 PM

Celina -- calling the LC at the hospital is a great first step. It's great that you have someone that you can turn to right now, you must be very concerned!

Would they be able to see you in person? A baby who nurses frequently but does not get much milk may have a physical problem (either with the latch or with their anatomy). One possibility is 'tongue-tie', where the frenulum - that little patch of skin under the tongue - is too long. (When baby has this problem, the tongue often looks almost heart-shaped at the tip instead of smooth.)

If it were an issue like that, it's easily diagnosed and corrected, but it might cause a problem for her whether you're BFing or bottle-feeding.

... and if you're concerned about nipple confusion, you can always try offering milk (or formula, if you need to supplement) in a medicine dropper or small flexible medicine cup.

I hope that you can get some good advice! If your LC can't see you (being that it's now almost the weekend), maybe someone from LLL can help.

SiValleySteph

09-30-2005, 01:25 PM

I was thinking of pumping tonight in hopes of being able to measure how much milk she’s actually getting.Thanks.

Does your local hospital do weigh-feed-weigh? Our hospital has a lactation center and it is free to go in and use their scale. You can do a weigh-feed-weigh where you weigh the baby in clean diaper & clothes and then feed the baby and then weigh again and you can see how much the baby took in a feeding. This can be soooo helpful when you are concerned about how much the baby is getting. I had a friend who rented a hospital scale from the same center for her home for peace of mind.

I don't know the exact amount per feeding your baby should get, but if your hospital has a center like this they will usually answer questions like this for free. I think the amount per feeding is really small at this point (1 week) - maybe only 1-2oz?

Good luck! I'll be thinking of you! It sounds like you are trying to do the best for your baby.

ellybelle

09-30-2005, 03:40 PM

Marisa Thanks for posting the AAP policy statement. I'm mailing it to my local Kaiser Hospital. There are SO many things that didn't happen at my supposedly "breastfeeding friendly" hospital (can you tell I'm still PO'd after nearly two years?)

SD601

09-30-2005, 05:53 PM

happy1nuv, I just weaned off the nipple shields, too. I found that my let down is too forceful, so DS will suck, grunt, and pull off the boob several times. I keep a rag handy and lean back to use gravity to help him. Congrats on getting off it! oh, and I'm debating about the pedicure thing, too, since I don't have anyone to watch him. I think I might try it next week, so I will let you know.

Megande, hugs. It's tough to be chained to the baby, but you are really doing a great thing for him! Can you help him space out his feedings, too? My DS is gaining weight like crazy and although I feed on demand, I try to feed him when he's hungry and a pacifier won't satisfy him. He used to be such a snacker, and now he eats consistently every 2.5-3 hours. I know he won't starve, since he's a chunk now. I dislike pumping, but I do it just for the few precious hours alone I can get with my husband. If you keep pressing it, he will take the bottle. By that age, you probably don't have to worry about him getting enough--when he's hungry, he will take it!

solongtogo

09-30-2005, 07:36 PM

C,

Court didn't have any nipple confusion at all...she took to a bottle right away. I introduced it to her in the 2nd week...I think they say to do in or by the 4th week. Has the diaper situation gotten any better? Also, have your pedi weigh her when she's 2 weeks old...she should have gained back to her birth weight

LexyLou

09-30-2005, 09:06 PM

Hi ladies-

Sorry if this has ben discussed before but since this thread is 37 pages long and I'm desperate for help I thought I would just re-ask.

My baby is 4 days old and my milk just came in today. She has a wonderful latch and strong suck. She has since the first time she latched.

While we were in the hospital she would easily nurse for 20 minutes each side with very little need for me to stimulate her.

Well, in 4 days she's lost 15 ounces and my Dr. is getting a little worried.

my worry now is that even though she still latches well and sucks strong she barely stays on for 10 minutes. I have to strip her to her diaper and continually play with her hand and her jaw line. I've even started to use a damp cloth on her back but she just doesn't seem to have a desire to stay on long.

She gets SO sleepy and I can't wake her to feed more for the life of me. At this point I'm over full and I'm dying to get her to gain weight. Also, I wake her every 2-3 hours to feed but it seems like she's not even rooting anymore or wanting the breast. I almost feel like I'm forcing her to it. Is it possible that 2-3 hours is too much for her and she's not hungry?

BTW, she does have a lot of wet and poopy diapers and the poopy ones are starting to be the yellowey color but are still mostly the brown-yellow color.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I really want her to gain back her weight so my ped doesn't make me get on formula.

Thanks,

Alexis

celina

09-30-2005, 09:06 PM

Well unfortunately we had to supplement with formula. She wasn’t getting enough from me (in a 24 hour period we only got 3 wet diapers from her). Two hours after her last nursing session, I decided to pump and see how much I could get. From both breasts, a whopping ounce. No wonder my poor little girl was so hungry. Also explains why she would sit on the boob for 3-4 hours at a time in the last couple of days.

Do I continue pumping even though milk isn’t coming out to encourage my milk supply to increase? I assume I do as it’s the same thing as letting her nurse for hours on end.

I am really sad we had to resort to formula. :(

Lisa, she has her first appointment on Monday.

Marisa, I am pretty sure it’s a mommy issue. Before my milk came in she was nursing 30 minutes (15 minutes on each side) every 3 hours and taking long naps in-between. Since Monday evening, when my milk came in, she has wanted to nurse every hour. Yesterday and today she has spent hours on end on the boob and never seems satisfied. She’s been getting very little sleep - so have I for that matter.

Marisa

09-30-2005, 09:41 PM

Celina, don't feel discouraged. The number one rule is always, "feed the baby". If formula helps her have the right number of wet diapers, then that's what you do for now. It buys you some time to get the kind of professional help you'll need.

Every three hours is probably on the low end for the number of feedings for a newborn. 8 to 12 in a 24 hour period is ideal, and if she's having trouble getting enough, every two hours might be better (this is what I had to do when Joey wasn't gaining at first). It sounds kind of like she's instinctively trying to get your supply up -- babies are really good at knowing when they need to do this, they also do it instinctively at the 3 week, 6 week, 3 month and 6 month growth spurts.

You can definitely continue to pump as well, if you feel up to it. Please don't beat yourself up, though, if you don't get very much. The fact is that many women do not respond to the pump, and don't get as much milk from pumping as their baby will get from nursing. It's just not a good way to judge your supply.

Alexis, congratulations! The wet/poopy diapers sound great to me, and I really think that that's what you need to be looking at. How much did she weigh at birth, and what is she now? Did you have IV fluids during labor (can lead to inflated birth weight)? Did you have a c-section (and painkillers during/after delivery)?

The fact that the diapers are changing color means that your milk is starting to do its job. A breastfed baby will typically be back to birthweight by the 2 week appointment, so at this point she shouldn't be losing any more, you should start to see her gaining again. Try to avoid supplements if at all possible until you get to that 2 week visit, as long as you're still seeing good diapers and she doesn't seem otherwise dehydrated. Continue what you're doing, get skin-to-skin whenever possible, see how it goes for the next 24 hours or so now that your milk is in.

LexyLou

09-30-2005, 09:46 PM

Thanks Marisa. I was on IV fluids during labor...she weighed 7lb 3 oz at birth on Monday and today she was only 6lb 4 oz. :(

What is the recommended amount of time per feeding? I'm lucky if I can keep her on one breast for 10-15 minutes and then I have to really coax her on to the next breast and usually can't get more than 7-9 minutes.

Is it common for a newborn to fall asleep while breastfeeding. She seems SOO tired lately. I think the milk is making her very sleepy.

Marisa

09-30-2005, 10:33 PM

Alexis, you're actually doing pretty well if you can get her to stay interested for 10 minutes or so. By that time, she's getting at the fattier "hindmilk" -- the first milk in a feeding is "foremilk" and it's more watery and thirst-quenching, but for bulking that baby up she needs the fatty stuff. :)

If you're not uncomfortable, try doing one full feeding on one side -- in other words, let her nurse for 10 min, burp, then back on the same side for as long as she'll go. That way you know she's getting every shot at that fatty milk. For the next feeding you can use the other side.

It's *very* common for newborns to be sleepy, sure. And to have their days and nights mixed up too. :) There's nothing wrong with falling asleep while nursing, it's really comforting for them to have a nice full belly.
The general sleepiness is something you just kind of have to deal with and help them through, during the first couple of weeks.... the three-week growth spurt is the first hump to get over (nursing all the time! -- but it's great for your milk supply!) -- and after that they really seem to wake up and start taking an interest in being awake a little longer. By the 6-week spurt you can actually start having fun with them, they become interactive. ;)

Megande

10-01-2005, 08:57 AM

happy1nuv- Thanks for your advice! We didn't want to take him to the game with us because very loud noises upset him (and the game will be *very* loud, and it is going to be around 95 degrees today. But I did find a woman from my LLL to have coffee with, so at least I am getting out of the house! I think it would be fine to take nic with you to get a pedicure unless it is one of those places where the fumes are overwhelming. He would probably think it was exciting!

SD601 - Thanks for your support! I don't worry about DS starving either (he is 17 lbs at 3 months!!!), but he goes for between 9 and 11 hours at night without eating, which is wonderful, but it means that he needs to eat more often during the day. He will eventually take a bottle, but it is accompanied by about an hour of screaming, and I don't like putting him through that, and I don't have any family nearby, so I don't have anyone I feel comfortable leaving him with. I think that I am going to join the MOMS club in my area, so hopefully I will be able to get out more often and stop feeling so trapped at home!

LexyLou

10-01-2005, 11:00 AM

Marisa-You are a god send! Thank you so much for the help. I fell MUCH better now. I'm going to try to just nurse on one side for one full feeding if I can handle it. I knew they got hard but wowzers!

Thanks again for the help. I sure hope we get her weight back up for her Monday weigh in. :D

Sarah

10-01-2005, 11:07 AM

Lexylou- I had a whole post typed, but Marisa said it all. My DD was sleepy and early (was yours early?) and we had all the same difficulties. I know it's miserable, but feed ever 2 hours during the day, minimum every 3 at night. Do whatever you can for her to eat- tickle her head, put a cool washcloth on her, blow on her tummy, etc. She'll get it. I promise it will resolve in a few weeks. Just concentrate on resting in between feedings, staying hydrated, and watch your latch. If her poops are changing color and she's peeing plenty, everything is most likely just fine.

Celina, don't beat yourself up. Your DD needed to eat and sometimes by supplementing a little (with EMB or ABM) you can perk the kiddo up enough to have the energy to keep working to nurse.

Yes, keep pumping for ten minutes after you stop getting milk to up production. Don't stress about how much you pump, it means very little. An ounce isn't bad, at her age.

Try to supplement with an SNS or finger feeding, not a bottle. There are two worrisome things about supplementing- latch, and supply. You want to make sure that the baby doesn't get used to a bottle, and forget how to nurse properly, causing you pain and difficulties. You also want to make sure that you aren't making the supply issues worse by feeding her formula.

Hugs, mama. It can be so hard. You are doing wonderfully with a tough situation.

Sarah

10-01-2005, 11:09 AM

moderngal

10-01-2005, 11:35 AM

I have some stupid questions:

1. my nipples are cracked and when I pumped on Friday at work, a little blood got into the milk. I figured that since BM is made from the blood, this wasn't a big deal, but just would like conformation on that if anyone knows.

2. During pregnancy, I got 2 warts on my hands. One went away on its own, but the other is still there. Is a topical ointment for that ok? Even if it has Salicylic Acid in it?

Also- someone here recommended "The No-Cry Sleep Solution" (Sarah maybe?). Anyway- we're trying some of the things in it and so far we're having a little bit of luck. Thanks!!

BeachBum

10-01-2005, 11:40 AM

1. my nipples are cracked and when I pumped on Friday at work, a little blood got into the milk. I figured that since BM is made from the blood, this wasn't a big deal, but just would like conformation on that if anyone knows.

The Le Leche League books says its fine.

Marisa

10-01-2005, 01:40 PM

mg - Dr. Hale dicusses an alternative to salicylic acid (which may cause diarrhea in BFed infants) on his message boards:

The Wartner wart remover is just a cryotherapy wart remover containing dimethyl ether and propane, neither of which are absorbed. It just freezes the wart somewhat like liquid nitrogen.

It should be fine for a breastfeeding mother.

The blood thing is icky, I know, but as BeachBum said, not a problem. :)

I saw the toddler version of the NCSS in the bookstore this week! Haven't even looked at it though. I am too lazy to even worry about whether we have sleep issues. :)

NYN

10-01-2005, 05:53 PM

hey ladies...is it possible for dd to be going through a growth spurt at 10 weeks? she has been feeding non-stop for the past two days but doesn't seem to have a tummy ache or gas (she tends to ask to nurse non-stop when she isn't feeling well).

LexyLou

10-01-2005, 05:54 PM

Lexy- If she won't stay on one side for a full feeding, and just falls asleep after a few minutes, try burping her, annoying her so more, and then trying again. If she doesn't like that, try switching her to the second breast, but then putting her back on the first, to get hindmilk. Switch as many times as you can, to keep her awake. That's all that worked with my DDs.

Thanks Sarah. I try everything. I burp her...use a cool cloth on her back, play with her feet etc...but when she's out, she's out.

My other concern is that lately she shows no signs of hunger. No rooting, no putting her hands in her mouth, etc. In fact these past two days she's been SO mellow. Even her sponge bath barely made her antsy.

Am I forcing her to eat when she isn't hungry? Shouldn't she be showing me signs of hunger? Also, I've had to wake her for every feed. She hasn't woken up on her own in two days. I've even waited 3 1/2 hours and I still have to wake her. I wonder how long she would sleep on her own?

Sorry for the 8 million questions. I'm such a rookie.

mollyeilis

10-01-2005, 06:24 PM

Did I read it right that she's only 5 days old? Well of course you're a rookie! You as a mother are also only 5 days old! :)

Heck, at 5 days I'd only had my milk in for a day, if that. So you're doing much better than we were...

If my fuzzy memory serves, around a week "out" Eamon got sleepy. Sleepy sleepy sleepy. And then he woke up from his sleepiness, and he had grown. By 2 weeks he'd already grown 2 inches (I'm sure a little of that was just stretching out) and put on some weight. So even though I wasn't feeding him anywhere near what I've since fed him in a day, the milk he was getting SURE did have some "punch" to it! :D

I wouldn't worry too much, it's likely just a form of normal.

Does she sleep in a crib? If she sleeps somewhere where you have full access, perhaps when you start having the urge to feed her (in other words, you want to relieve yourself of some milk LOL), you could lay down next to her, shirt and bra off? I found that Eamon would quite often start rooting when he could smell the milk, even if not fully awake.

Of course, I wasn't even moving around at all by that point (not totally true, but basically it is), and all I did was sleep with him and feed him and sleep more and feed him more...Oh and read. Got SO much reading done in those early months! :p

Have fun with your new baby!!!

LILRTL

10-01-2005, 06:58 PM

Help. That's all I can say. We started supplementing DS because I thought I was going back to work. Thank Heavens, I am able to be a SAHM. So I am trying to get back to full-time BFing. But we're having issues. At 5:30, I bfed him...at 7:30, I bfed him...and he kept screaming...after 35 minutes of feeding, he sucked 3 ounces out of a bottle (formula, not bm). At 9:15, I fed him for another 35 minutes. Now, he has sucked down 2 oz. and is working on his second 2 oz. Is he not getting anything from me? When he starts screaming at the breast, I burp him, try switching, think he's finished and lay him on my lap, etc. I am still able to squeeze milk out (easily) when he is screaming... I'm just not sure what to do. I hate to keep giving him formula, but when he screams, he SCREAMS. There's no getting him to latch back on. And I don't understand why he would nurse for so. long. and not get anything! I'm drinking my water, eating my oatmeal, etc. I know it's helping because I am getting engorged again when he goes 3-4 hours. Any help?? :confused:

moderngal

10-01-2005, 07:04 PM

Sarah

10-02-2005, 06:42 AM

Alexis~ The one nice thing I've found about BF'ing is that you can't overdo it. Ella will let you know when she doesn't want milk- she'll push away or something. She'll only take the breast when she wants it- sometimes a full feeding or maybe just a snack.
I always try to anticipate the hunger cues before they come- that way baby stays calmer and is more efficient eating.

Yup, ITA with all of that. My first DD was like yours, Lexy, and wouldn't wake to eat. She was less than five pounds when we got her home, and if I didn't set an alarm for every 2-3 hours, she would go about 5-6 hours without eating. They just don't have hunger cues sometimes.

happy1nuv

10-02-2005, 09:28 AM

nic has learned a new trick. sometimes on the boob he grunts/groans/pulls ... towards the end of a feeding. apparently he still wants to suck, just doesn't want the milk ... he discovered that if he sucks the SIDE of my boob, he can continue to suck w/o the bother of more milk and will happily do so ... for hours i think. side lying nursing put me to sleep...when i woke he was half-sucking the side of my boob/half sleeping ... and has tried to end every nursing session like that since...

celina

10-02-2005, 10:36 AM

Marisa

What does one do about this.....

And to have their days and nights mixed up too.

She was up for most of the night (10 to 8 this morning). Around 12 she fully vomited. I am not sure if last night’s lack of sleep is due to having an upset tummy or the fact that she doesn’t sleep as well at night. I noticed during the day she’ll sleep for 4 hours, eat, sleep for 4 hours, and so on. But at night it’s different. She spends more time with her eyes wide open and wants to nurse more frequently. I would love to switch it around so that she does her 4 hour naps at night and is more awake during the day. Is it possible or do I live by her schedule?

LexyLou

10-02-2005, 11:01 AM

Yup, ITA with all of that. My first DD was like yours, Lexy, and wouldn't wake to eat. She was less than five pounds when we got her home, and if I didn't set an alarm for every 2-3 hours, she would go about 5-6 hours without eating. They just don't have hunger cues sometimes.

Thanks guys. I have been having to set my alarm also. I was just worried that her sleeping so much and not wanting to eat could signal a greater problem but she has a great active alert state and tracks our fingers and voices and noises etc...so I know she's strong and healthy. I just worry...

Sarah, when you say you set the alarm for 2-3 hours when do you set it from?

If I start a feed at 10 pm it could be 11 pm before I've gotten her to take 10 min on one side and 3-5 on the other. Do I try to feed her again at midnight or 1-2 am? I know the books say from the start of feed but I know I wouldn't even have a chance of getting her to latch with that little amount of time in between.

sdauer21

10-02-2005, 11:05 AM

I'm hoping someone can help!! :( We've been ebf since DD was born and she's almost 10 weeks. For the last few days, she seems to be totally constipated. She had one poop on Friday, and hasn't pooped since. She is still having pretty full wet diapers, but now seems to be very uncomfortable. What can I do to help unclog her?? Is it something I'm eating thats plugging her up? I thought bf babies didn't usually get constipated. Is she just growing out of her frequent pooping phase?

Thanks for any help!!

Marisa

10-02-2005, 11:27 AM

Lora -- sounds like maybe he's doing a little cluster-feeding? It's something that's common among BF babies in the first 3-4 months after birth, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with your supply. I recall clearly night after night of just laying on the couch with the baby, watching tivo for hours, just getting up to switch, maybe from 7 till 11 PM. Finally he'd sink into a deeper sleep for a few hours, and so would I! -- but during the day he'd be fairly normal.

http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/fussy-evening.html

That page may be helpful/reassuring... As for switching him back to EBF -- just keep doing what you're doing... if you can get Mother's Milk Tea that has herbs that encourage supply, but if you're still getting engorged it sounds like you're already doing ok. It sounds like this is just a discouraging time to get through, but you can definitely do it while decreasing the amount of formula he's taking. :)

happy -- what a funny trick! When Joey was about your son's age, he discovered his thumb -- he never would take a pacifier. I wonder if Nic will figure out the thumb thing as well, if he likes to suck but without the milk. (FWIW, Joey gave up the thumb-sucking at around 11 mos. on his own.)

celina -- it's just a process, you'll remember that when you were pregnant she'd start some of her more serious rockin' and rollin' when you were just getting settled to relax for the night. The motion of moving around all day would lull her to sleep a lot of the time, but at night when it's quiet she'd wake and be active. It's kind of the same right now, but as she's exposed to the outside world she'll start to 'get' that the interesting stuff happens during the day. The best way to get her circadian clock adjusted is to just keep the house bright and airy during the day, try to get outside when the weather is nice, and keep it dim and still at bedtime/throughout the night. It's a slow adjustment, maybe over a couple of weeks, but it will happen. :)

Alexis -- when Joey wasn't gaining back his weight, I was setting my alarm for every two hours from the *start* of a feeding. So say, at 1 AM, 3 AM, 5 AM... luckily, working with a LC, I was able to solve our issues and we didn't have to do more than a few days of this before he started gaining very well.

Sonya -- If a baby is exclusively BF, it's likely that she's just growing out of the frequent pooping when she starts going days between poops. I think that Joey was about 4 months when he first did this -- it freaked me out just a little, but when he finally did go (after about 5 days) it was MASSIVE. We just kept putting diapers under him and switching them out when they were full, I think he filled three. :eek
There's nothing you can really do besides wait and see... and stockpile the wipeys... :)

Sarah

10-02-2005, 11:31 AM

Sdauer- She's not constipated unless when the poop does come, it's hard and dry. If when it comes, it's normal- wet/seedy/yellow or orange/etc, then she's fine. My older DD used to go a week or so between poops when she was tiny, and it was normal. After 6 weeks, anything goes, in terms of pooping frequency.

Lexy- Yeah, it's tough to know when to set it. If you feed her at 8, and she goes to bed, set the alarm for 11, then 2, then 5, IMO. If she won't take it, try again in an hour.

Seriuosly, this will get better. In a few weeks it will be a distant memory.

Celina- She's tiny, right, like less than 2 weeks old? Then just try to deal with the days/night confusion. It's normal and will straighten out in a week or so, IME. You can help by not letting her sleep in the dark/quiet during the day- try to leave her where she can hear the household sounds during the day, even if she's sleeping. Exposure to light for a few minutes every few hours helps, too (and helps Vit D levels) When my DD was confused, we brought her in the sun for ten minutes every hour or two, and then at night we made sure it was dark and relatively quiet after 8 pm (or whenever your target "sleepy" time is). She'll get over it. I doubt the vomiting is related.

Sarah

10-02-2005, 11:32 AM

We cross posted, Marisa. :D

Ew, three diapers? Lucy'd better not try that stunt!

sdauer21

10-02-2005, 12:12 PM

Thanks Marissa and Sarah!! Maybe we just never made it to that point with Tallia - I don't remember her going more then a day without pooping. I'm glad to know that its normal! Not looking forward to when she does finally pooh, though...3 diapers!!! YOWZA! :eek: :D

AndreaMMS

10-02-2005, 03:24 PM

:(

My baby is 9 days old today. I went from having no milk at all for the first 4 days to being engorged on day 5. Saw a lactation consultant on day 6 that took care of her latch and rented a hospital pump from her that helped the engorgement, but then immediately went back (day 7) to practically no milk at all. Seriously, I'll pump and pump and get nothing more than a few drips on one side, and even less on the other. They feel empty.

The LC has me using a nipple shield and sneaking a tube attached to a syringe into it filled with formula so that the baby sucks and stimulates my supply at the same time, but it doesn't seem to be working.

I am beside myself. She will suck for two hours at a time, every time, eating 2ounces of the formula through the shield, and then scream until we give her a bottle, where she'll really quickly eat another ounce.

I am so exhausted and frustrated...any advice would be GREATLY appreciated...

Thanks,

Andrea & Naomi

Marisa

10-02-2005, 04:27 PM

Hi Andrea! Congrats on your new baby!

Is the nipple shield part of your latch correction? Sometimes a shield will interfere with supply, though that's not the case as often these days (shields used to be much thicker).

Aside from that, what you're describing doesn't seem that far outside of normal to me, in fact it's pretty typical for a newborn to nurse and then want to nurse again a minute later! Think about it this way -- not only is breastmilk quickly and easily digested, but she's also just gone from eating every single second of the day, every time your heart beats, to eating only some of the time. Some babies take a little longer to adjust to that concept than others.

It sounds like she's taking a lot of formula -- even if she was exclusively FF at this age that would be a lot. Is she spitting it back up at all? Most babies *will* take a bottle and guzzle it down, but that has more to do with the fact that they like to suck, it's their instinct, and the milk flows much more quickly from the bottle.

Why did they have you supplementing, if I may ask? Because you don't feel like the milk is there? Because you were unable to pump? Some women just never get anything when they pump... it doesn't mean that they don't have milk. It also doesn't necessarily mean anything that you're not engorged... some women never feel it at all (and go on to nurse successfully), and you've said that you felt it when your milk first came in, which is a good sign.

The most accurate way to gauge how much your DD is taking is to do a weigh and feed, where you weigh her when she has an empty stomach (most places say an hour after her last feed) in a clean diaper. Then you nurse for 15-20 minutes, then weigh again immediately. A newborn scale will show you how many oz. she's taken in. If a weigh-and-feed shows that she's taking between 1-2 oz. in that time, then my opinion would be that you have a pretty normal newborn with a strong suck instinct. :)

mollyeilis

10-02-2005, 04:58 PM

Some women just never get anything when they pump... it doesn't mean that they don't have milk.

I'll second that! I couldn't even pump without wanting to cry from the pain for at least a month if not more. And yet baby ate and ate and ate (and ate) and got bigger, so even though little milk came out for the pump, it came out for him. Good luck!

******
This isn't directly on topic, but after days of trying to figure out where to ask the question, this is as good a place as any.

We delayed solids for a long time, and are still sort of using the list of foods to continue to delay given to us by our ND. Eamon is 16 months, and the amount of food he eats is increasing slowly, but it seems the more solids he eats, the more he nurses as well. :)

So his poops, which are the topic of my question LOL, have remained pretty much soft and runny breastmilk poops. Until this week. Oh, this week...what I wouldn't give to go back to last week's smelly and big but normal-to-us poops...

He's been quite surprised and disturbed by the new era of pooping...it's all more "formed" and more solid, I suppose, and I'm sure feels quite different coming out than what we'd all gotten used to.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make it easier for him? Whereas before he'd just start walking in circles then squat down and go, now he's crying and yelling and in distress, and we all hate it. Any ideas?

Also, is it normal for it to have changed in smell so heinously much? It's unbelievable, the change...

Thanks for any ideas and suggestions you might have! Oh, he gets lots of fresh fruit, water when he wants it, whole grain everything, etc etc etc, and of course plenty of breastmilk.

BeachBum

10-02-2005, 05:09 PM

How do you know how much EBM to give?

Henry will be 4 weeks on Tuesday, he was 9lb and 11oz at his last appt this past week. He is gaining and eating great at the boob. I've pumped some and have a couple of 1 or 2 oz bottles frozen. If I want to run out for a bit and leave DH with him, is there a way to know how much EBM to expect him to eat/ and or how much to defrost? thanks :)

AndreaMMS

10-02-2005, 05:52 PM

Marisa- Thank you so much for the congratulations and the thorough reply.

Quote: "Is the nipple shield part of your latch correction?"

Yes, the nipple shield is part of the latch correction.

Quote:"It sounds like she's taking a lot of formula -- even if she was exclusively FF at this age that would be a lot. Is she spitting it back up at all? "

I know, it does seem like she's eating a tremendous amout of formula, doesn't it??? But she's only spit up once or twice, and is happy as can be when she's full. Do you think I should be giving her less?

Quote: "Why did they have you supplementing, if I may ask? Because you don't feel like the milk is there? Because you were unable to pump? "

I started the supplimenting on the reccomendation of the hospital staff - she was pretty tiny at birth - 5 pounds, 7 ounces (full-term) and was losing weight fast. And when I had her at the breast she would suck and then scream like she was starving...

So you think I should ditch the formula alltogether? Just trust that I have more than I think I do?

Andrea

LexyLou

10-02-2005, 06:57 PM

So, I decided to consult with a lactation consultant today. She's super hippie and hysterical. She's a little more hard core than I am and even told me that I should not be stripping my DD or messing with her feet or hands, etc. to eat. That she will let me know when she wants to eat, etc..

But she did think she is a little jaundiced (as do I) which is why she never wakes up ever for feeds and has stopped rooting or showing signs of hunger. So she had me pump and for the next 12-18 hours at every 3 hour mark she wants me to feed it to her with the finger syringe system. I didn't even have to wake her up.

She thinks Ella is just exhausted and my forcing her to eat is only making her more tired and that if I can just get my milk in her that within 18 hours she will make a come back and let me know that she wants to be at the breast.

I'm not 100% sure I agree with all her methods but the lady is an expert and has gotten many babies to eat and I'm just a rookie mom so I figure it's worth a shot. No harm no foul, right?

Anyway, you ladies are SOOOOO awesome and I hope some day to have this down well enough to help out other mommies. Thank you again and I'll be back with more questions, I'm sure. :D

Alexis
(feeling much less of a bad mommy)

Marisa

10-02-2005, 08:25 PM

Alexis, it sounds like you're getting some good help! Your LC sounds a little like the lady I saw, who finally helped me get Joey to start gaining weight! Isn't it amazing what another perspective can do, to make everything seem so much more manageable? I hope that you continue to make progress with your DD, it's not uncommon for newborns to have a little jaundice (and therefore to be sleepy) but breastmilk is the *best* to get rid of it!

Andrea -- I'm not a professional and I've not met you in person, so I would never tell you to drop the supplements cold turkey, esp. since you started at the advice of professionals. However, I *would* recommend talking to a LC, preferably a certified one, and arranging for a weigh-and-feed sometime in the upcoming days. I really think that it's the only thing that will give you peace of mind that you are providing for your daughter. Your ped office may do this for you, or a LC should have a scale as well.

If you would like to cut back on the supplements, do it gradually -- maybe a half-oz. at a time. Don't stress about her "using you as a pacifier" -- she's just programmed to suck, and honestly it's the best possible thing for your milk supply to let her nurse as much as you can possibly stand it.

If you need help finding a certified LC, check here: http://www.iblce.org/US%20registry.htm or ask a LLL Leader... I'll be interested to hear what you find out once you can do the weigh-and-feed...

BeachBum -- at that age Joey was taking anywhere from 2-4 oz. when my DH would give him a bottle... if you have it frozen in 1-2 oz. increments it will actually thaw pretty quickly in a bowl of hot water, so I'd thaw one bottle and let DH thaw another if Henry is still hungry after that.
That way you cut down on waste if 2 oz is enough.

Kiley

10-02-2005, 09:23 PM

I have a question regarding milk supply. It seems that many women claim to have a decrease in their milk supply starting anywhere from 4-6 months and then they have to supplement or use their freezer stash. Why the decrease? What happens? It worries me that I'll have to do the same. How can you prevent it from happening?

Marisa

10-03-2005, 05:38 AM

Molly -- sorry I missed your poop question before (yeah, I'm real sorry. ;)...) Anyway, it sounds very familiar, we're *still* going through the same kinds of things since Joey eats a few real meals of solids now, but also nurses 3-4 times a day.
I don't know if there's anything more you can do to help him, unfortunately. Maybe it's one of the fruits that's bothering him/making him gassy? I know this is TMI about my husband, but apples always upset his stomach for some reason. Who knows.
The stink is pretty much here to stay, too, unfortunately. I'm just waiting anxiously for the time when it's not a semi-solid state, when I can just dump the little solid poos in the toilet intstead of having to stand there and rinse and smell it...

Kiley -- it's not so much that there's a decrease, as your supply tends to regulate itself around that time. Your body becomes more efficient and makes closer to the amount that the baby is actually taking, and maybe not as much 'extra'.
Women who have been pumping will note this as a decrease, because they've been counting on the 'extra' to build up their freezer stash... but if you are nursing your baby you will still have the right amount of milk for him. If you are at work and need to give bottles, you can try a few tricks to keep your supply up -- taking a galactogogue such as oatmeal (cereal, cookies, snack bars)... the herb fenugreek which is found in capsule form or in 'Mother's Milk Tea'... drink lots of water and eat enough protein... If possible, continue to pump for a couple of minutes beyond when the milk stops flowing, to tell your body that you need more -- and pump one side while nursing your baby on the other, if you can -- trick your body into thinking you're nursing twins! ;)

I wouldn't stress about it right now, though -- as with everything breastfeeding, some women experience this, some don't... I went back to work 3 days a week when Joey was 6 mos. and I was still leaking half the time, my supply didn't dip at all.

madmartian

10-03-2005, 07:10 AM

Hi, I'm new here and I need some advice.

I have a 5.5 mo old DD who has been exclusively breastfed from the start. I'd like continue breastfeeding at least until she's 9 mo old. DH and I booked a 4.5 cruise in November, when DD will be 7 mo old -- without DD. As much as I'll miss her, I'm looking forward to spending the time alone with DH. I have a huge freezer stash that she'll use while I'm gone, and I planned on pumping and dumping while on vacation.

Lately, I find myself questioning the decision to go. I feel guilty dumping all of that breastmilk. Is there anything I can do with it other than throw it out? I'm afraid of destroying my milk supply because I probably won't pump as much as she would consume. Am I ruining my chances of breastfeeding until 9 mo by going on this trip?

LeslieR

10-03-2005, 07:57 AM

This might be an odd question...

Every time Luke woke up to eat last night, my breasts were sooooo full-as if I hadn't fed him in hours. I always feed him on one side and then the other side at the next feeding. So, each time I woke up, one side felt like it was going to burst and the other side would be pretty full (more full than usual), too, but not quite as much as the other. This lasted on through the morning. Luke pretty much always sleeps 4-5 hours the first time he goes down and gets up every 3 hours after that. My breasts have never felt full like this during the night before. Am I just making more milk now than before???

BeachBum

10-03-2005, 08:33 AM

thanks!

cc8

10-03-2005, 08:34 AM

I saw a topic on this before but I can't find it - sorry if this is redundant!

EMB Freezer Stash
I want to start building a freezer stash of EBM. My questions are:
1. When should I start freezing and how should I do it?
2. In what quantities should I freeze?
3. How long is frozen EBM "good for"?

For reference, I am still on maternity leave and will go back to work in either January or March 2006.

Second Question: Supplementing, Freezing, BFing
DH and I can't get away from formula supplementing and I'm not sure if it's that we're lazy or what. DD will BF from me throughout the day, but when we're out about town we wind up giving her a formula bottle. Part of this is due to us not really having a "system" of when to use formula bottles, when to use EBM bottles, when to freeze, etc.

Also, sometimes I'll nurse DD and she'll seem hungry literally 10-15 minutes after she finishes nursing (for nursing, I keep her on the breast until she pops off and even after the first pop off, I offer it to her again to see if she wants to take it). During these times, we wind up giving her a bottle of formula or (if we have it) EBM...so frustrating!

Can you please help with advice?

ETA: DD was born on 8/20

Marisa

10-03-2005, 10:07 AM

madmartian -- Welcome! :)

Only you can decide for yourself whether you're comfortable leaving your DD for that long. You do need to be prepared for her being 'strange' toward you when you return -- a baby that young has not really mastered the concept of object permanence, so she won't really understand that you'll come back, she only knows that you're gone. KWIM?

I have heard of other moms who were able to leave their babies for an extended time, however, and continue BFing upon their return. You will have to be dedicated to a pumping schedule of some sort, even if it is not as frequent as it would be if you were at home nursing. You may find that your supply dips after those few days, so plan to spend a couple of days with your DD when you return, just nursing as much as she's willing, to up your supply again (it'll be great for bonding as well). You may have to take a supplement called fenugreek, which boosts milk production, or use other galactogogues such as oatmeal.

Hopefully you will have no problem meeting your 9-month goal, and more, if you choose. :)

Leslie -- you do make more milk overnight in general... it looks like he's about the right age to have had a growth spurt in the last week or so? Could be that your supply has increased because of his increased size/demand.

cc8 -- You can begin pumping at any time.

1. When should I start freezing and how should I do it?

You can start at any time that you're ready. :) You can use breastmilk storage bags, many like the Lansinoh brand. Lay them flat in your freezer and after they're frozen you can stack them to maximize space. Label them with a pen or marker with the date (and time, if you like) that it was frozen.

2. In what quantities should I freeze?

You can freeze in small increments, 2 oz. or 4 oz. A younger baby might only take 2 oz. at a time, but it's easy to thaw two bags of milk if you think she will be hungrier. (Rather than wasting any if you have a 4 oz. bottle but she only takes 2, KWIM?)

3. How long is frozen EBM "good for"?

In the back of a very very cold freezer, about 6 months. So milk that you freeze in October 2005 should be used by April of 2006 at the latest. However, once it's thawed and warmed, it should be used promptly, most say within an hour or so.

As for the supplementing... well, if you want to move away from using formula, you might just try to pump now and save a couple of oz. to use while you are out. Since you have several months left to build up a stash, there's no reason to not use some of your pumped milk while it is fresh. It will stay good for 6-8 days in the refrigerator if it's never been frozen - just warm it a little and swish to incorporate any fat that's risen to the top.

The hunger cues, however, are perfectly normal for a baby as young as yours. In the first three months, it's pretty common for a baby to want to nurse for long stretches, or to want to eat again soon after nursing. It has to do with a few things -- first, the fact that breastmilk is digested easily. She can only handle a couple of oz. at once, so once it's digested she might feel hungry again. Also, young infants are programmed to want to suck constantly. It's an instinct that keeps your milk supply up as well as keeping her close to her mama. (It's not as convenient nowadays, but back in caveman days I'm sure this was a survival tactic!) This will change dramatically after around 3 months, because she'll a) be bigger, and able to hold more milk in her tummy, after her 3-mo spurt and b) be more alert, and be able to entertain herself by watching the world -- you can essentially 'distract' her a little more easily.

I also wanted to leave you a link to Kellymom.com about cluster feeding -- that sounds kind of like what you're describing, and it's *very* common for newborns to do this, esp. in the evenings. I think we've all been there. :)

http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/fussy-evening.html

Anyway... This is getting kinda long. :) I would definitely recommend starting to pump, get a cooler bag and take along a bottle of EBM if you have to. Out of the fridge, it will stay good at room temp (around 65-70 degrees) for several hours, and even longer if it's in a cooler bag with a cold pack. :)

pgbg

10-03-2005, 10:09 AM

BeachBum
I wanted to reply simply because I actually can answer your question!! :) I learn sooooo much from reading this board all day, and usually have no answers to anyone's questions, but my DS sounds like yours. He was 9 lbs 4 oz at his 4 week appointment on Friday (up from 7-3 at 1 week) and is doing great at the boob. My pediatrician said that he'd probably eat 5 oz from a bottle -- the 2 times my DH has fed him he took almost 5 (about 4.5 or so). I have 2-3 oz bags frozen, so I defrosted 2 of them. They defrost really quickly, so you could start with 2-3 oz and see how much he eats.
HTH!!

mollyeilis

10-03-2005, 11:21 AM

I have a 5.5 mo old DD who has been exclusively breastfed from the start. I'd like continue breastfeeding at least until she's 9 mo old. DH and I booked a 4.5 cruise in November, when DD will be 7 mo old -- without DD. As much as I'll miss her, I'm looking forward to spending the time alone with DH. I have a huge freezer stash that she'll use while I'm gone, and I planned on pumping and dumping while on vacation.

Lately, I find myself questioning the decision to go. I feel guilty dumping all of that breastmilk. Is there anything I can do with it other than throw it out? I'm afraid of destroying my milk supply because I probably won't pump as much as she would consume. Am I ruining my chances of breastfeeding until 9 mo by going on this trip?

Hmm. I can't imagine going that long without seeing DS. Ya know, as much as it might seem you'll want time right now, by 7 months baby is going to start being more mobile, even more interactive, just more fun. So at 7 months, you might not make the decision that you've made in not including her...

Rather than not going, would it be possible to add her to the vacation? I know with Royal Caribbean they charge 1/2 as much as the regular fare. Problem is the room had to be able to accomodate 3 people, so you might not get the room you wanted/chose...hmm.

But I know if finances had cooperated, we'd have already taken something like 3 cruises with DS...aside from the "what to do with the cloth diapers" question, it just seems like a lot of fun!

The stink is pretty much here to stay, too, unfortunately. I'm just waiting anxiously for the time when it's not a semi-solid state, when I can just dump the little solid poos in the toilet intstead of having to stand there and rinse and smell it...

Thanks Marisa. Sigh. This is the ONE thing that's gotten me to entertain the thought, if only for a moment, of ditching the cloth dipes. Anything to get away from the smell, right? But all my reasons came flooding back in to my brain and I resigned myself to deal with it (or leave it for DH to deal with bwa ha ha ha)...but for it to have me thinking about disposables? Bleah yeah it's bad! :)

Every time Luke woke up to eat last night, my breasts were sooooo full-as if I hadn't fed him in hours......My breasts have never felt full like this during the night before. Am I just making more milk now than before???

Growth spurt? Has he been wanting to eat a ton? If so, this might be the "answer" to all his sucking. :) A bit of a delayed gratification, but that's growth spurts for ya! My breasts still do this, and DS is 16 months old. I hear (I don't know as I slept through it) that DS ate all night. That explains why I was so parched when we finally got up, and why I was headachey (dehydration). And if he does it again tonight, I bet in a day or so my breasts will be full again...for me it just happens...:p

AndreaMMS

10-03-2005, 02:32 PM

I spoke to my LC again today (and she is IBCLC and was recommended by both LLL and my pediatrician). She said that each of these formula-supplimented feedings should not be taking two hours to complete - that Naomi probably isn't sucking hard enough. She also said that in her opinion while pumping isn't an ideal way of measuring my supply, the hospital-grade pump I'm using should be a fairly accurate judge, and at this point a half-hour pumping session is only giving me about 6cc's of milk, and 99% of that is only from one side.

She said that I can come see her again and she'll check Naomi's latching/sucking and give me a different supplimentation method that will train her to suck harder. If that doesn't work to up my supply she recommends that I see a doctor to get my hormone levels and thyroid checked to see if threre is an underlying medical issue that is interfering.

I know that my mother was unable to breastfeed, even with medical help/hormone shots, so I'm feeling pretty discouraged.

LeslieR

10-03-2005, 02:38 PM

Thanks Marisa and Molly! He's 8 weeks today, so I wasn't thinking growth spurt at all (wasn't the last one at 6 weeks?). I didn't think he was eating any more lately than normal. Very interesting!

madmartian

10-03-2005, 02:40 PM

moderngal

10-03-2005, 05:25 PM

Marisa, do you what if any topical anesthetics are BF safe? (ie novocaine, lidocaine, etc). Also is there a place online that discusses maternal illness and BF'ing? TIA.

cc8

10-03-2005, 05:53 PM

Marisa,

For the last week or so, I've felt a strange pain on my left breast while nursing. I looked closely at my nipple today and noticed a while patch of skin on my nipple, which I assume is what's causing the pain. Is this a milk blister? What can I do to get rid of it?

I also sometimes feel pains in either the left or right breast - not near or on the nipple but more around the outer area. What could this be and do I need to worry?

I saw my OBGYN today and after I told him that I've been having these pains on/off for 1 wk now, he told me that if it doesn't get better/go away w/in 24 hours then I'll prob have to start taking antibiotics!

Marisa

10-03-2005, 08:10 PM

Andrea -- thanks for the update! I do tend to spend time worrying about the things I read here. :)
I'm so glad that it sounds like you have really good support on your end. Does she think there might be a physical problem causing the weak suck? At any rate, all I can really say is that I'm glad that you're talking to someone like her. Whether it's a problem that runs in your family or not, there's got to be a reason for it, and you need to know what that is and if it's surmountable, KWIM?

Leslie -- the last big one would've been at 6 weeks, yes, but they can come at any time... What I was thinking, though, was that he did the whole nursing-like-crazy thing at 6 weeks, then he did his growing, and now for the last week or so he's been bigger and stronger... just by nursing the same amount he might be able to get you to produce a little more? Just a theory! :)

mg - Hale classifies those anesthetics as L3 (moderately safe), but mentions that lidocaine specifically metabolizes quickly and has poor bioavailability. So while there is a relatively high transfer, it is unlikely that the baby would receive a toxic dose. If you want, PM me your email and I can scan the full pages for lidocaine and procaine for you in the morning.
Dr. Hale's message boards are the closest I've come to an online resource for breastfeeding and illness, though you can always do a search on Kellymom or the LLL site for past articles as well.
Dr. Hale's Message Boards (log in as "guest") (http://neonatal.ama.ttuhsc.edu/cgi-bin/discus/discus.cgi?pg=topics&access=guest)
LLL (http://www.llli.org/home_intro.html)
Kellymom.com (http://www.kellymom.com)

cc8 -- what are the pains like? Are they shooting/stabbing pains, or more like a dull ache? Are you feverish at all? Are your breasts tender or hot to the touch, are there any red patches?

Your dr. is thinking mastitis, for which antibiotics might be prescribed, but I'd be inclined to think of thrush first, esp. if you say that they are deep, stabbing pains and if you don't have the other symptoms I've mentioned. A white patch may also be a sign of thrush.

Thrush is a yeast infection, so in the next 24 hours try cutting out any sugar that you possibly can (yeast thrive on sugar) and take a probiotic supplement, also called acidophilus. It's available at any drugstore, Walmart, etc. You can take 2 capsules, three times a day, since you suspect an infection. Since your dr. has given you this time to wait it out, it couldn't hurt to see if this relieves your symptoms.

mollyeilis

10-03-2005, 08:13 PM

Thanks Marisa and mollyeilis for the advice.

I think I'll be able to go away for so long. She'll be in very responsible hands with her grandmother who has been taking care of her for months since I went back to work. Then again, we haven't spent a full day apart yet, and at the end of a long day of work I run home to see her. I didn't even think of her separation anxiety. That will make going away sooo much more difficult.

I have considered taking her with us. We've already gone on vacation together and we had a great time. DH and I were hoping to have a more active vacation this time (aka snorkeling and scuba diving), but we can always decide to bring her at the last minute and skip the activities.

Ah, a trustworthy grandmother does change things. I don't have one, so it's never even been a temptation (MIL fed DH mushed up meat at 2 *weeks* before realizing it was a translation problem with the pediatrician, she thinks we're nutty for SO many things we do and don't do, and even now she tries to give my *husband* meat when I'm out of the room b/c she thinks he's veggie because of me)...

I don't know what your budget is like, but heck, you could even spring for grandma to go with, to take care of DD while you're off scuba diving. :D Family suite? Adjoining rooms?

wildcat

10-03-2005, 08:26 PM

Subscribing! Successfully BF for 7 days so far and loving it!

newyorkgirl

10-03-2005, 08:31 PM

cc8, I've been dealing with milk blisters for the past 5-6 weeks. :( There are two possibilities for what you've got - (1) milk blister and (2) some form of milk blockage. Both will cause the BM to back up in the milk duct.

For (2), the white spot would likely look like just a spot on the nipple - it's generally some coagulated milk that's working it's way out of the duct opening and you should be able to pump/hand-express/nurse it out - it might look like a white string coming out. It might also help to soak your bb in warm water (as warm/hot as you can take) with some epsom salts/regular salt. Things to help prevent this sort of thing in the future - Vitamin C supplements, reduce salt intake, reduce trans fat intake/increase omega-3 fat intake (through supplements, diet, or lecithin).

For (1), it will often look like a blister, i.e. pop up out of the surface of the nipple. But not always - for me, the first couple blisters did, but then subsequent ones started getting deeper under the surface (more difficult to deal with). Here is what I did: First, I filled one of DS's leftover newborn diapers with water and microwaved it until it was warm (usually about 20 seconds was enough - this makes for a very effective warm compress). Then, I soaked a cotton ball in olive oil. I placed the cotton ball on the nipple and covered the nipple and the affected milk duct with the diaper/compress. I would reheat the diaper whenever it cooled down. Then, just before nursing, take a clean washcloth, moisten, and rub gently over the blister to open it. Once the blister opens, nurse immediately to drain the duct. Massage the affected duct as you nurse to aid drainage. After nursing, wash breast gently with soap and water, and apply Polysporin to make sure the open skin doesn't get infected.

Also - on the pains that you're feeling - do they feel like shooting pains? If so, you may also have thrush (which I got as well). Mention it to your LC or your OB and you - as well as your baby - will need to get treated.

Hope you gain from my experience and get this fixed quickly!

ETA: Here's the www.kellymom.com page on milk blisters (http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mom/nipplebleb.html).

cc8

10-03-2005, 09:31 PM

thanks Marisa and Nygirl,

What are the pains like? - i have both shooting pains and dull aches. me left breast had one red patch last wk but it went away

Are your breasts tender or hot to the touch - no; only after i apply a warm compress

I'm no expert but I think I have a milk blister. *But* after clicking on this link, I do see that I have some symptoms of thrush ~ what do you think?

http://lactinv.com/tscreen.htm
Have you noticed white spots in your baby's mouth? - NO

Is there a white coating on your baby's tongue an hour after feeding? - YES, but honestly, it looks like it's just milk

Does your baby have a bright red diaper rash? - NO
Is your baby gassy, fussy, or not nursing well due to oral thrush? - NO

Is the area around the tip of your nipple pink, red, itchy, flaky or shiny? - minimal shininess on left side

Do you feel a burning sensation on your nipples either during or between feedings? - during feedings yes, on left side. between feedings yes on both sides

Do you have a cracked nipple which won't heal? - NO

Do you feel shooting pains in your breast (different from the sensation of the milk-ejection reflex)? - YES

Do you have a history of vaginal yeast infections any time in the past 5 years? - The only time I had a vaginal YI was during my PG

Have you had a pain-free breastfeeding experience until recently? Do your current symptoms represent a sudden change? - pain started 1 week ago

Have you or your baby completed a recent course of antibiotic treatment? The use of antibiotics increases susceptibility to yeast infections. - Had antibiotics during c-section

Did you have a cesarean birth, or were you diagnosed with a vaginal Strep-B infection? After a cesarean birth, women are often given antibiotics. A woman with a diagnosis of vaginal Strep-B may receive antibiotics during labor. - C-Section YES. I was also GBS+

Have you used steroids for conditions such as asthma? The use of steroids can alter the body's immune response, making it susceptible to yeast overgrowth. - NO

Did you have a yeast skin rash under your breasts during pregnancy? - NO

Do you have diabetes? - NO

Does anyone else in the family have a thrush or yeast infection? - NO

**Do I see my GYN about this or do I see a LC? My DD's ped has an onsite referral nurse who I believe is also a LC**

ETA -
I decided to take a picture of my nipple and email it to my doc.

So here are links to a few pics. I know, this is TOTALLY weird that I am posting these. But I wanted to put these up here in case anyone had any expert opinions...(do you see the white dot? It was hard to take pics of this)

http://images.snapfish.com/344%3B67%3A%3B23232%7Ffp7%3Enu%3D3242%3E538%3E7%3A 7%3EWSNRCG%3D3232%3C3%3C853728nu0mrj

http://images.snapfish.com/344%3B67%3A%3B23232%7Ffp7%3Enu%3D3242%3E538%3E7%3A 7%3EWSNRCG%3D3232%3C3%3C85372%3Anu0mrj
http://images.snapfish.com/344%3B67%3A%3B23232%7Ffp7%3Enu%3D3242%3E538%3E7%3A 7%3EWSNRCG%3D3232%3C3%3C85372%3Anu0mrj

LeslieR

10-04-2005, 08:55 AM

That makes sense, Marisa. It happened again last night-I was starting to think I was going to have to pump because I was so full. I made a conscious effort to have him nurse on both sides at each feeding, but that only helped in making both sides equally engorged at the next feeding instead of one breast moreso than the other.:rolleyes: Will this taper off soon? Thanks for your help as always!:)

Christine, I'm no expert, but it sounds like a yeast infection. I went through quite a battle a few weeks ago. I started off thinking Luke's latch had gone bad because I was in so much pain-my nipples were so sore I literally would cry out when he latched on to nurse. It started on the left side for one week and then the right side was sore, too, the next week. After some research, I thought it was a yeast infection in my nipples. I spoke to an IBLC and she told me to start putting Lotrimin on my nipples. Next we took Luke to the ped and he couldn't find any signs of a YI on him and suggested that maybe I had a bacterial or staph infection instead. I called and spoke to a nurse at my OB's office, she spoke to my dr and called in a scrip for Bactrum (sp?) to put on my nipples. That same day I was very tired and felt like I was coming down with the flu, but just chalked it up to not getting enough sleep. I took my temp just to be sure and it was 99.2. No biggie. The next day I felt worse and had the hot red spots on my left breast. I took my temp and it was 102. Mastitis! I called my OB again and she called in a scrip for an antibiotic (can't think of the name right now). The mastitis started going away AND my nipples stopped hurting! Hurray! HOWEVER, a few days later, I started getting the shooting pains in my nipples. ugh. I had my 6 week pp that Thursday, so I mentioned it at the appt and my dr wrote me a scrip for Nystatin to put on my nipples. It took a few days for it to go away. The whole thing was a nightmare and I thought about giving up bf'ing several times. But, we got through it and we're doing great again. Definitely call your OB right away! I was so clueless, I had that first pain for 3 weeks before I started feeling better. Now I know the symptoms and if I notice anything amiss, I will call the dr right away! HTH!

cc8

10-04-2005, 10:22 AM

Thanks Leslie - this is so frustrating, not knowing what's wrong. On my left side (where the pain is greatest), I have a white "dot" of skin on my nipple, which is why I thought I had/have a plug. I'll call my doc today inquiring about possibly having a yeast infection.

LeslieR

10-04-2005, 11:00 AM

I don't know anything about the white dot, so definitely mention that and the shooting pains. Better safe than sorry!

EJM

10-04-2005, 11:27 AM

Please feel free to direct me to the correct page if a link or answer has already been posted, I tried to search and had no luck.

I plan to BF, but was informed at the dentist last week that I need to have a cavity filled and potentially more extensive gum work done. Does anyone know what numbing medication is safe (if any) while BFing? If none, I'll just wait for a few months when I can pump ahead and use a bottle, and pump/dump around the appointment. It would be nice to get it out of the way sooner though, if that is a possibility. Thanks!

Lvella43

10-04-2005, 11:34 AM

Suscribing. I can't wait to finish reading thru this awesome thread!

sarahanna115

10-04-2005, 12:14 PM

What to do next?

I'm hoping someone here may be able to give me some advice...

I'll try to make this long story short! I had my little guy on August 16 and he had to have open heart surgery when he was 8 days old to fix a heart defect that caught everyone by surprise (transposition). I had my heart set on breastfeeding, but that was shattered from the get-go. He was on IVs for the first 3 days and then was given bottles...I was pumping every 2 hours since I had nothing better to do while there, so I had a good supply of milk. He wasn't allowed to even start trying to breastfeed until 2 weeks ago (he had to be on a special formula until then), and we have been trying everything to get it to work since then.

He has latched onto me a few times but doesn't seem to get much. Most of the time he arches away from me and yells until we give in and give him the bottle. I tried a nipple shield (24 mm) but I think it is too big, he cries a little while he sucks on it and I don't think he gets much milk at all.

I talked to a LC and she said I should up my pumping to 6xs a day. (Currently I'm doing about 4xs, usually getting aboug 12-14 oz a day. I realize that is not enough for a full day of feeding, so we have to supplement.) She also suggested a smaller nipple shield. We talked about the SNS but it is $40 and not of course guaranteed to work.

So today I had a meltdown almost. I feel so strained. I want this work but it is getting so difficult to be practically connected to my breastpump all day long PLUS try to get him to feed as well before all of his bottles. I hate the thought of having to pump like this for the next 9-10 months. He is 7 weeks old and this is week 3 of trying. Is there any hope at all?? It makes me so depressed to think I can't get this to work and to never have this relationship with my son. Of course, there's always the next baby, but I feel like I am not able to give HIM the best and it kills me.

Anyways, if anything, I was able to get this all out. If anyone has any help or suggestions, please feel free. Even with all the horror stories of mastitis and other problems with BFing, I have to say I am very jealous of everyone who has that special bond with their baby. Enjoy it, pain, aches, and all! :)

adore_one

10-04-2005, 12:26 PM

Sarah - the going back to the nipple scenario is the same thing that is happening with us. DS FLIPS out when he is at the nipple (with shield or w/o) Today I broke down crying as well when I went to get him his bottle...I cannot wait to hear what people have to say. I am goint ot go the LLL meeting this week now I will let you know what I find out.

ahavnes

10-04-2005, 12:43 PM

Sarah- I'm so sorry that you're having to go through this! While I don't have any advice on how to improve the latch, etc., I do have some experience with pumping. In terms of pumping, try not to see it as 9-10 months of torture. Set small goals for yourself, it does work! First I said one week, then one month and now I am determined to make it to 6 months. Also, you get into a routine where pumping is not so much of a hassle.

I know it's really hard when you have a new baby, but try not to beat yourself up over the bf issue. You will get some wonderful support and advice from the ladies in this thread and hopefully it will work. If it doesn't, know that you've done everything you can to give your son a great start. I think I let my angst over bf troubles ruin some of my time with DD as a newborn and I regret that. I'd hate to see it happen to someone else. Good luck! :)

ellybelle

10-04-2005, 12:52 PM

Sarah I'm sooo sorry you're having such a rough time getting him on the breast! We had some issues early on too, but believe it or not, I'm now trying to figure out how to get my almost 2 yo dd off the boob ;) , so it can be done.
Here are some things you could try:

1. Give him a couple of ounces from the bottle so that he's not super hungry, and then try to get him to latch on afterwards.
2. Pump until you feel letdown/see milk, and then quickly put him to the breast.
3. Make nursing a positive physical/emotional experience. Cuddle with him more when he's at the breast, lay in bed skin-to-skin, and practice side-lying nursing. Comfort nurse when he's upset but you know that he's full -- you'll be his "human pacifier".

Just know that it can be done! There's obviously no guarantees, so please don't beat yourself up if it doesn't work out -- I know how hard it can be. And honestly, I think that rather than focusing on pumping more, I'd focus on feeling more relaxed and trying different ways to get him to latch on. I know that I always had more luck with the football hold, for example. Even if you have to continue to supplement, you'll be happier if you can get the nursing down, rather than worrying about pumping all the time.

Marisa

10-04-2005, 01:34 PM

Sorry, no time to post but EJM, here's a link:

http://www.kellymom.com/health/illness/dentalwork.html

Almost all routine dental work shouldn't interfere at all with BFing. :)

newyorkgirl

10-04-2005, 01:57 PM

Christine, sometimes thrush can be the underlying cause for milk blisters. The pains I get are shooting pains just after nursing and sometimes in between nursing. Then, during nursing, the pain is localized at the spot of the blister. I looked briefly at one of your pics and that definitely looks like what I've been dealing with.

There are two ways you can go about dealing with this. First, you can go to an LC (and if you use the one in your ped's office, make sure she is IBCLC). She will probably be able to help with some home remedies, fixing any latch problems, help you massage plugged ducts, etc. If she gives you a treatment for the thrush, it might be Lotrimin, gentian violet, or something similar but won't require a prescription.

The second way is to call your OB. If you don't have plugged ducts yet or mastitis, you probably won't need to be treated with antibiotics - but check with your OB. If your OB diagnoses your thrush, he will probably prescribe topical Nystatin or Diflucan (pills).

I first went to the LC, then when it became apparent that home remedies weren't going to be enough, I went to see my OB. I started getting milk blisters right after DS's 6-week growth spurt (probably due to a little thrush and a little oversupply). First, I was able to open them up on my own and express the backed-up milk. But DS has mild thrush on his tongue and it must have infected the opened-up skin on my nipple, causing the yeast to really take hold. I kept getting blister after blister, and it was really painful to nurse. When DS was around 10 weeks, I finally went to see the LC and she diagnosed the thrush and we started off with Lotrimin, then moved on to the gentian violet. Last week, even those stopped working, and I got mastitis (from the plugged ducts), so my OB finally put me on antibiotics and Diflucan.

I can't tell you how many times I was in tears bent over a bowl of warm saline water with my breast in it.

Definitely get it treated as soon as possible. And check with your ped/LC to see if your baby needs to get treated at the same time so that he/she doesn't continually re-infect you.

BeachBum

10-04-2005, 02:44 PM

EJM

10-04-2005, 02:49 PM

Marisa: Thanks for the link! :)

wildcat

10-04-2005, 03:39 PM

A question from a freaking out one week mommy!!

DD is 1 week old and about an hour ago fed from both the left and right sides (which is what she normally does, about 15 mins each) and when she was about done on the left (and final) side she vommited twice (A LOT). Is this "normal" or should I call the dr? She has her 1 week pediatrician appt tomorrow anyway, so I was hoping we could just wait. I normally have to pump off a little bit before she feeds as I'm still quite engorged and have slightly flat nipples and it's easier for her to latch after pumping a bit. However, I didn't do that this time, so I'm wondering if I could just have an overactive let down or something? Any advice would be appreciated!!

cc8

10-04-2005, 03:59 PM

newyorkgirl - thank you SO, SO MUCH for your post and advice. That helped me A LOT.

Tonight, I am going to start the antibiotics that my OB Rx'ed (Keflex), acidophilus and Lotrimin.

Regarding DD, the nurse who I spoke to at the ped's office today, said that as long as DD isn't showing any signs of infection, that there was no need to treat her. Does this sound weird to you? I understand the whole mother/DD infection/re-infection thing so I really want to make sure DD is ok. I also read that DD can be infected AND STILL NOT SHOW ANY SIGNS of infection - is that right?

Regarding the saline H2O - all I've been doing to my breasts directly is putting a warm, dry compress on them. Should I be soaking them in warm salt water?

Finally, I have NO IDEA how I contracted thrush. Is this really common in BFing women? What can we do to avoid it?

Dally

10-04-2005, 04:12 PM

wildcat--I am by no means an expert, but I think if your DD is not projectile vomiting (which I believe is a couple of feet or more), you should be OK to wait until your ped appt. tomorrow. That said, I see nothing wrong with calling your ped. You're a new mom--they expect you to call with questions! Congratulations on your new baby!

cc8--I haven't gotten thrush yet (fingers crossed), but I am trying to ward it off by eating yogurt every day. I'm sure there are other things you can do, but eating yogurt ought to help. :)

Question: Lately, DD is very distracted at the BB and doesn't seem to suck much or for very long (except when she nurses to sleep). I went back to work recently, and my supply is already dipping. She's drinking a bunch from her bottles--a lot more than I am pumping. Is there anything I can do to get her to suck more vigorously when I am home? I do try to feed her with few distractions but she still keeps popping off. Could she be getting enough milk when she does that? Is this affecting my supply? It's so hard to tell. She's almost five months. Any thoughts?

Marisa

10-04-2005, 04:31 PM

wildcat -- it does sound a bit like overactive letdown, which is mainly a laundry problem (as long as your DD is otherwise healthy and gaining, of course!) :) It will taper off as your supply regulates and as she gets bigger and more able to handle it. Congrats to you! :)

cc8 -- you can get thrush just like any other yeast infection, you're more susceptible if you've had antibiotics recently because they kill off the 'good' bacteria with the bad. That bacteria usually keeps the yeast balanced. It's not like you'd catch thrush "from" something, it's just an imbalance of yeast in your body.

Treating baby can be unpleasant, they get an oral suspension of Nystatin, so I can understand if they're reluctant to give meds if she's not showing signs. Just be vigilant, it can show up in her mouth or as a diaper rash (where my DS had it).

jrdhbunny

10-04-2005, 06:54 PM

Dally- I'm going through the same thing with DS. It's so distressing to get home from work, ready and anxious to BF, only to have DS completely distracted. He'll latch on hungrily and suck vigorously at first, but then pop off after a few minutes to look all around. I've tried to feed him in his room where there are no noises, but he'll still pull off if only to look at me. DH says that he does the same thing when he's taking his bottles during the day, but it's cold comfort. :(

Anyway, I don't really have any advice, except to say that I totally commiserate with you!! I guess it's just the age- the babies are just so interested in everything going on around them.

newyorkgirl

10-04-2005, 07:02 PM

Yeah, cc8, my ped was reluctant to give me anything for DS too. I haven't pushed the matter yet, because I'm still sort of feeling out how my treatment is working for me, but I spoke to the LC about this and she recommended a couple things - gentian violet (although, for DS, this wasn't really working to get rid of the thrush - it may just keep it at bay so that he doesn't re-infect me) or, taking one of my acidophilus tablets, crushing it and giving it to him.

ETA: Some say the saline or epsom salts help. And a warm, moist compress is generally more effective than a dry one.

The LC also said that around 3-4 months, the thrush generally disappears on its own in infants. DS doesn't even have it that bad (which is why the ped said it wasn't necessary to treat it) - all he has is a white patch towards the back of his tongue. I thought it was milk tongue, but since I can't scrape it off, it must be thrush.

Which leads me to a few questions of my own - hopefully someone or the most-excellent Marisa can answer ;) - since the GV wasn't effective in treating DS's thrush, and since I don't want to insist the ped write a scrip if we don't have to, I've been looking for other ways to treat DS. I've read that grapeseed extract, diluted with distilled water and swabbed into DS' mouth would work. Has anyone tried this or know more about it? Is it effective? Does GSE have any negative effects on DS, i.e. bad taste, irritates stomach, etc.?

Are there any other ways to treat thrush in DS that wouldn't require a prescription?

Also, the ped said that one of the reasons we didn't need to treat DS' thrush was because he would get treated when the Diflucan I'm taking makes its way into the BM. But the LC told me that not enough of the Diflucan makes it into the BM to treat DS. Who is right?

LeslieR

10-04-2005, 07:40 PM

Christine, we got the same reaction from the ped as far as him showing no symptoms therefore not having it and I read the same thing about babies having it even though they have no visible symptoms. Very frustrating. I only hope the dr is right that Luke didn't have it and won't give it back to me. As far as preventing, these are some common sense things that I didn't know-make sure your nipples are always dried off after nursing. If you're using breast pads, change them as soon as they are wet. I felt like an idiot, but I had no idea that you were supposed to change them that frequently-I was keeping the same pads in all day long!:eek: Talk about a breeding ground for yeast! HTH!

cc8

10-04-2005, 08:34 PM

Thank you marisa, newyorkgirl and leslie! I swear, I wouldn't know what to do without this thread!

My DH bought me some acidophilous (sp?) today - they're chewable tablets but the weird thing is that they contain SUGAR. Doesn't yeast thrive/grown on sugar? Should I NOT take these? What other forms does acidophilous come in?

portlandbride

10-04-2005, 08:57 PM

Dally and jrdhbunny Just wanted to let you know that I go through the same thing. What has worked for me (a little) has been to take her into my bed and feed her there. I use the side-lying position. I also make sure that it is sorta dark in the room. It seems to help her relax and focus a little more on eating instead of watching everything else.

It is so frustrating sometimes because I am trying my hardest to keep my supply up for her, but it's hard to get her to nurse effectively when we are in a room with any distractions, like the dog or cat. She would way rather look at them and laugh! I do try to not stress over it though, and I believe that has helped a bit.
HTH!:)

LeslieR

10-05-2005, 06:20 AM

Just wanted to update that I didn't have the fullness feeling last night, so I guess it worked itself out.:)

cc8

10-05-2005, 10:43 AM

I am relieved to report that there's been drastic improvement on the thrush front - bbs no longer in massive pain, redness has subsided, etc. The protocol I'm on:

1. antibiotics from doctor
2. antifungal cream for nipples (Lotrimon)
3. acidophilus tabs - taking them but hesitantly as they contain sugar. I will probably go out and get some sugarless yogurt today
4. H20/vinegar rinse for bbs
5. washed clothing in hot H2O + bleach

QUESTION: Is there anything else I can do/should be doing? I'm paranoid that the infection will come back!

Marisa

10-05-2005, 11:24 AM

cc8 -- it sounds like a very thorough system! :) I hope this works for you and I'm glad that you're having some relief already!

I think that you should be ok with your acidophilus tablets, the amount of sugar will be cancelled out by the good bacteria... still, if you prefer, try to find a capsule that can be swallowed instead of chewed, that probably won't have sugar added.

HGMorgann

10-05-2005, 11:27 AM

Just an FYI -
Stonyfield Plain Organic Yogurt has no sugar and boasts of its acidopholus.

Mrs.Chappy

10-05-2005, 01:45 PM

any tips for unclogging a clogged milk duct? its just at the tip of my nipple..it looks like a white head..its been there a few weeks and hurts!

Marisa

10-05-2005, 01:53 PM

Mrs. Chappy -- moist heat and massage often works for me -- try to massage it in the shower if you can. Some find a supplement called "lecithin" helps if plugged ducts are recurring.

Here's Kellymom on plugged ducts and milk blisters:

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mom/mastitis.html
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mom/nipplebleb.html

wendstress

10-05-2005, 07:08 PM

I've been having some shooting pains in my right breast today. No red splotches, and it's not tender to touch.... Don't see anything that looks like a milk blister or plugged duct... Any thoughts??

duke's flygirl

10-06-2005, 05:21 AM

Totally off topic...I went to my first LLL meeting last night, and it was great! It was so nice to meet women who have been there, done that, or are just starting out!

I am thinking I may join, since DH and I are starting TTC #2, and if I get PG soon, I may continue to BF my 11month old mornings and nights, instead of weaning her completely when I go back to work in just over 3 weeks. (My preference, but due to my job, and the possibility of being sent away for long periods of time (military) I don't want to stop abrubtly, but would rather "wean with love" and do it gradually. Especially Ryleigh seems to love BFing very much.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings.

Koala_Gurl

10-06-2005, 06:38 AM

I've been having some shooting pains in my right breast today. No red splotches, and it's not tender to touch.... Don't see anything that looks like a milk blister or plugged duct... Any thoughts??

Not sure...could it be the beginning of a plugged duct? Maybe try some heat as a preventative measure?

I am sure someone who knows more will post! :)

tinkerbell2005

10-06-2005, 06:58 AM

I've been exclusively bfing now for almost 7 months. I have no freezer stash left and it's getting hard to keep up. I need to have some formula in the house for the nanny in case I don't make it home in time one night. It's really just for my peace of mind. I have never given DD any formula at all. Can someone recommend a brand? I don't care what it costs. Can formula be mixed with BM if necessary?

Also, I have thrown out BM that smells and/or tastes funny even though DD drinks it. This morning I was feeding her expressed BM and cereal and I tasted it and it did not taste good, although she ate almost all of it. I tasted it at the end of the feeding. Is she going to be sick? Why would it have gone bad? I pumped it this week! Maybe I am mixing milk from too many pumping sessions? I'm completely freaked out. :eek:

solongtogo

10-06-2005, 07:04 AM

Marisa

10-06-2005, 07:32 AM

Joelle -- we had LLL last night too! :) I enjoy going -- if you attend a couple of meetings you start running into the same people, and it can be such a nice social break, KWIM?

Tinkerbell -- if your DD has no problem with dairy (i.e., you haven't had to limit your own diet while BFing) then she should be ok with a standard cow's milk formula. My understanding is that Nestle's Good Start is among the easier to digest because the milk proteins are already somewhat broken down.

Congratulations on 7 months of exclusively BFing! Does your DD take any other solids at all, or just the morning cereal? When I went back to work P/T when my DS was the same age, I always left a small jar of pears or a mashed banana as a 'backup' in case I got held up at work. My DS would only take a few bites, at that age, but it did help tide him over.

As for the stinky milk... it's really easy for milk to pick up any odors in your fridge -- moreso, I've found, for milk that's been frozen and then thawed again. Try putting some baking soda in the fridge to absorb odors, and keeping the milk tightly closed (double-bagging if you store in the bags, or put the bottle inside another larger container or ziploc).

catmom

10-06-2005, 07:39 AM

Tinkerbell,
We had to try all the major brands of formula to find one DD would take. They don't taste very good! The only one she would take was the similac advance. It seems to be the least nasty tasting of the bunch. Our ped recommended the good start, but DD wouldn't go near it (your baby may not be so picky, however). I would try to get some samples from your ped, or just start with a really small can to see what your DD likes.

prudies

10-06-2005, 07:50 AM

tinkerbell I also wanted to have something around just in case, so I bought a can of Horizon Organic Formula. I find the idea of calling a food as processed as formula "organic" ridiculous, but I liked that I was spending money on a Horizon product rather than a Nestle product.

NYN

10-06-2005, 07:51 AM

I've been having some shooting pains in my right breast today. No red splotches, and it's not tender to touch.... Don't see anything that looks like a milk blister or plugged duct... Any thoughts??
are they very painful or just kind of uncomfortable? i got these a lot during my pregnancy and still get them sometimes today (though less often) and both my LC and my pediatrician told me they are normal milk duct spasms. it is actually the reason why i haven't worn a bra w/ underwire support in the past ten months!

(not saying that it can't be thrush, just giving you another possibility. i haven't had thrush yet so i can't tell you about that...)

LILRTL

10-06-2005, 08:36 AM

Marisa Could you e-mail me at *email address removed*? I have a question for you that I would rather not post in the thread!

Thanks!

Tiger

10-06-2005, 10:07 AM

I don't know if this is the right place to post this question or not but I figured you ladies would be able to help me.

Does anyone know if it is ok to breastfeed during the day and give formula at night, or will this upset DD tummy and make it harder for her digestive system? This is what we have been doing at night because the formula seems to satisfy her so much more at night and allows DH and I to get some much needed rest, but she seems to be fussy lately. (DD is 10 days old) I don't know if she is fussy because she is uncomfortable or because she is hungry. She wants to nurse pretty much non-stop during the day. I usually only get about a half hour to an hour break in between feedings during the day.

Thanks everyone!

Marisa

10-06-2005, 10:26 AM

Tiger -- the reason why formula "satisfies" longer is that it's actually harder for them to digest. It takes longer for them to work through than if they were just having breastmilk. So while it seems like a good thing (more sleep for everyone), she might actually be uncomfortable because of it.

Some babies are sensitive to cow's milk and soy proteins, which can cause them to be fussy when given standard formulas. This sensitivity may not be apparent from birth, but often shows up within the first couple of weeks of life. I believe that I gave up eating dairy and soy when my son was about 3-4 weeks, because he was extremely gassy and fussy and began having a red bumpy rash on his face.

I think that it's possible that giving formula overnight, when your milk supply is highest, hasn't really given your milk a chance to come in as strong as it should. It would take a few days and some real dedication, but if you let your DD nurse as much as she wants to, she will up your supply naturally and then be able to get more at her daytime feedings.

It sounds like you're looking for an overnight solution. Has anyone showed you how to nurse lying down? If you can bring the baby into the bed with you (safely, of course!) you both can get a little sleep even if she wants to eat during the night. I personally was very opposed to cosleeping, we had a basinette next to the bed for the baby, but I gave in a couple of weeks in when I realized how much better we all were able to sleep. I really believe that you just do what you have to do to get through the first 6-12 weeks, what Dr. Karp calls the "fourth trimester". There's this anxiety about being able to get back to 'normal' routines, but this period is so crucial for a newborn and it will be over soon enough. Once they pass the 3-month spurt, they're like totally different creatures, and it's a whole new ball game.

Anyway, my thought would be that your supply is dipping from the overnight formula, and that's actually leading to the frequent nursing during the day, unfortunately. Do you have any support at home, or are you home alone with baby all day? Do you have family that could come and do non-breastfeeding-related tasks with the baby for a couple of days, while you have a 'nurse-in' and work on getting your supply up?

mcl

10-06-2005, 11:48 AM

does anyone know where i can get fenu greek or any other kind of supplement to up my milk production. i just came from my son's peds appt. and his weight is the same as it was. the pediatrician said she doesn't want me to supplement just yet because the baby is just keeping stable but would like us to pump and see how much milk i'm getting. we're going back in a week to check him again. to those of you who used fenu greek tea, how did you like it and how soon did it work?

celina

10-06-2005, 01:43 PM

Big emotional break down #1.

I just completely lost it. I can’t stop bawling. My milk supply isn’t increasing and my DD is getting more formula than she is breast milk. I feel like such a failure. I left a message for the lactation consultant and am waiting for a call back.

It’s so frustrating to make the decision to breastfeed and then not be able to.

solongtogo

10-06-2005, 01:54 PM

celina

10-06-2005, 03:52 PM

What are the supplements recommended to increase milk supply?

I spoke to the lactation consultant and she recommended eating oatmeal, taking Fenugreek, mother’s tea and a third supplement, but I forgot the name already. :rolleyes: It started with an L and ended with "cil."

Lisa
How quickly did it take affect for you?

Tiger

10-06-2005, 04:38 PM

marisa Thanks for your help and support. Unfortanately, DH has to go to work all day and none of my family is close enough to where they can come and help. They are all about 7 hours away, so it is just me during the day. I think that is why breastfeeding is so overwhelming to me. I am trying my hardest to keep up with it for as long as possible though. I know it is best for my DD but I also know it isn't good for me or DD to have me stressed out. I am going to try not to give formula for the next couple of nights and see how things go. Wish me luck.

moderngal

10-06-2005, 05:00 PM

mcl~ I bought fenugreek at GNC. I've seen it at Whole Foods and I'm pretty sure you can get it at most pharmacies that carry herbal supplements. I also bought Mother's Milk Tea at Whole Foods- they had a few different brands, both of the brands I've tried work well for me. :)

celina~ I am so sorry!! BF'ing is hard. I really hope your LC is able to give you some good tips and help you out. Hugs, mama. :)

If you can bring the baby into the bed with you (safely, of course!) you both can get a little sleep even if she wants to eat during the night. I personally was very opposed to cosleeping, we had a basinette next to the bed for the baby, but I gave in a couple of weeks in when I realized how much better we all were able to sleep.
Ditto this. DH brings DS to bed at his first waking and I nurse him while sidelying and we both go right back to sleep.

solongtogo

10-06-2005, 05:43 PM

Celina within 2 days...I normally pumped like 2 oz...after fenugreek I've been pumping over 6 during one pump session

LILRTL

10-06-2005, 05:53 PM

Where do we buy fenugreek??

lil_nance

10-06-2005, 06:07 PM

To the new moms. HUGS! Hang in there, it really does get easier but those first few weeks were hell. I have to agree with the others about the sidelying. It's tricky at first but makes things so much easier and restful. I waited until 8wk before I tried/mastered it. Wish someone would have suggested it sooner. I use it to feed DS at night and first thing in the morning. If it's been a rough night, we'll ofter co-sleep for another hour in the morning.

mcl

10-06-2005, 06:24 PM

thanks moderngal, how did the mother's milk work for you? how much of an increase in production and how soon after you started drinking did it work?

AndreaMMS

10-06-2005, 07:03 PM

Celina- I am in the exact same place as you. Just wanted you to know you're not alone.

Marisa- Hi there. Me again. I saw my LC again today and we did a feed-and-weigh - Naomi got a 1/2 ounce from one side and 2/10ths of an ounce from the other.:( My questions for you - how likely is it that at two weeks post-partum I can still get a drastic increase in supply? The LC set me up with something called a "Lact-Aid" to continue supplimenting with formula while encouraging supply. But she said that if it's not getting better in a week I should see a doctor to get blood tests and a thyroid test. In your experience, what sort of problems/solutions could I be looking at?

Also, how much fenugreek is recommended?

Thanks,
Andrea

celina

10-06-2005, 07:10 PM

LILRTL
I purchased mine as well as Mother's Milk Tea at Lassens, a local health food/nutrition store. http://www.lassens.com/retailer/store_templates/shell_id_1.asp?storeID=V92HGBD7X6SR2LR60G03N0ET9MR 4BDF3

sdauer21

10-06-2005, 07:14 PM

within 2 days...I normally pumped like 2 oz...after fenugreek I've been pumping over 6 during one pump session

How much are you taking and how often? I've been taking 3 capsules a day for several weeks, along with eating oatmeal at least once a day (and usually several times a day, thanks to oatmeal cookies!! ;) ), and really haven't seen any increase. In fact, I'm starting to have flash backs this week, as I think my supply has drastically decreased. I haven't had a good pumping session yet. I was easily getting 3-4 oz a session (1-2x/day), and the last time I tried, I couldn't even get 1/2 an ounce. :( I started back at work on Monday, and my biggest goal is to be able to get through this hurdle so I can keep DD ebf, but I'm starting to wonder if our honeymoon is over?

Lora Try a health food store. I get mine at a regular grocery store, but they have a big natural/health food section. I think someone else mentioned GNC. We can also get our at the local food co-op. Let me know if you can't find it and I'll try to find some more resources for you!

celina

10-06-2005, 07:18 PM

sdauer21
I just started taking it, but all the bottles I read said to take 2-3 pills, 3 times a day.

LILRTL

10-06-2005, 07:26 PM

Thanks, girls! I assume this is it:
http://www.lassens.com/product_images/F/FE90RV0PN3NB9M9KUUWJJ1HLBKW48VS6.jpg
?

LexyLou

10-06-2005, 08:37 PM

Girls who feed side lying-I've been trying that to slow down my flow but what do you do about burping after?

She and I both get sleepy and could fall asleep right after but then I have to sit up to burp her and then I'm up and she's up. What do you guys do?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm so frustrated right now. So now I have an over-supply and a strong let down. I'm pretty much drowning her and I feel horrible. I'm working to slow down the flow but the problem is that she still isn't waking often to feed and when I try to wake her if she isn't ready she just won't nurse. So I can't get her on one boob enough to drain it to the hind milk since I have so much she's only getting the foremilk even for 2-3 feedings. She's gaining weight still but why isn't she waking to eat? At night I have to wake her every 4 hours and it's like pulling teeth to get her to take anything. It's almost like these feedings are a total waste. I don't know if I should just wait till she wakes or what? GAH, this is so stressful.

It's crazy that some of us are having issues with not enough milk and some with too much milk but they are just as scary and confusing and frustrating. I feel like all I do is cry.
My LC says I should continue to finger feed but I have so much milk and I hate that she's still finger feeding after 5 days.

Marisa

10-06-2005, 09:18 PM

Alexis, my thought is that if you're both sleepy and she's not uncomfortable, you could probably forego the burp for that feeding. If she's acting squirmy then she might need to get rid of that bubble, but if you were just going to try to sleep anyway (as opposed to continuing the feeding) then I don't see the harm in just drifting off... :)
I am relating very much to your story, since so many of our issues in the beginning were related to my oversupply -- bad latch, baby not gaining well because of the no-hindmilk issue.... Things got much easier for me at about the 3 week mark, it just seemed to take a little practice and a few days for my body to figure it all out.
If she's gaining well, though, I wouldn't wake her to eat. Unless you've been advised to do so, of course. Otherwise the rule is to let sleeping babies lie. :)

Andrea, I think the Lactaid is the way to go, I have heard from at least one mom who successfully used it to stimulate a low supply (it took her a few weeks, so perserverance may be the key).
Did the LC see anything remarkable about the shape of your breasts? If it's an issue of not having enough breast tissue/milk-producing glands, the breasts typically have a distinct look to them that's pretty recognizable.
According to the LLL Answer Book, problems with your thyroid, pituitary gland, or other endocrine problems could all contribute to low milk supply, so it'd be great to have some tests run. It's always better (I think) to know WHY something is working/not working. It brings you that much closer to a workable solution.

adore_one

10-06-2005, 09:18 PM

celina - it is fenugreek and blessed thistle - take both 3 tabs 3x/day - there is also a drop formula that is stronger called "mothers milk plus" do yourself a favor though and put the drops in concord grape juice - it is the only stuff strong enough to hide the nasty (and I mean nasty) taste.

also it is better to have the steel cut oatmeal according to my LC - you can getit at trader Joes

wildcat

10-06-2005, 10:08 PM

I've learned so much from this thread...hopefully someone (Marisa?:)) can help with another question!

Due to being engorged and having slightly flat nipples, I've been pumping off a bit before each feeding and have been freezing this breastmilk to start my freezer stash. However, I've been reading a little about foremilk and hindmilk...since this is just the first 1/2oz or so and is just foremilk, is it still ok to give my DD for a full feeding? Maybe I need an explanation of the foremilk and hindmilk and whether they need both? TIA!!

solongtogo

10-07-2005, 03:00 AM

9 cpsules a day for fenugreek

NYN

10-07-2005, 06:57 AM

lexylou: i do two or three sidelying feeds a day and i never burp her b/c she falls asleep towards the end (if she even wakes up fully at all) and she has been fine. she has never even spit-up after a night feed.

regarding the overactive letdown, i had the same issue. it is very frustrating. for me it regulated itself around week 6 or 7. some things i did: i always had a burp cloth w/ me to "catch" the milk if it was coming on too strongly (unfortunately i never felt my letdown so poor DD had to start coughing before i even realized it), side-lying feeds, i would try to do the football hold and kind of sit her up a bit (but this is doubly hard when you have no clue what you are doing). hang in there; it will get better before you know it. i remember i was covered in breast milk and constantly engorged those first few weeks.

sdauer21

10-07-2005, 09:10 AM

9 cpsules a day for fenugreek

:eek: Yowza - that's probably where I've been going wrong. I've been taking 1 capsule/3x day. I'll up it and see if that helps. (then, I'll take out a second job to pay for it! :rolleyes: )

Thanks for the help, everyone!! :D

Marisa

10-07-2005, 10:51 AM

wildcat -- it should be fine to give that milk as a feeding at some point. Although it's not as fatty as it could be, it's still very nutritious, and her other feedings will balance it all out (especially if you're giving bottles only occasionally).

The foremilk is more thirst-quenching, more watery... the hindmilk is where the most fat is contained. So if it's a hot day and baby wants to nurse, she gets the benefit of the more watery milk right away without getting through a whole feeding. If you want to hold off on giving her these 'lite' bottles :) until you're sure she's gaining lots of weight, that'd be fine too, but I really don't think it's necessary. Like I said, it still has all the good nutrients she needs, and it all does balance out, even if you're back to work and she's only nursing mornings/nights.

Dally

10-07-2005, 11:00 AM

I saw my LC again today and we did a feed-and-weigh - Naomi got a 1/2 ounce from one side and 2/10ths of an ounce from the other. My questions for you - how likely is it that at two weeks post-partum I can still get a drastic increase in supply?
Andrea--When I did a weigh & feed (DD was two weeks or so), she got 23 CCs...Less than half an ounce. Seriously. I was devastated. I believe it was because DD was small and had a difficult time latching (her little mouth barely fit around my nipple) and didn't have a strong suck. The LC had us continue to supplement (both EBM and a high-cal formula). We supplemented with a syringe/finger for about four weeks, and then with a bottle for about five more weeks. The hard thing about supplementing is that it takes longer to build your supply. What I did was just keep BFing has much as possible before we'd give the supplements. Evenutally, we cut the night time supplementing, and then slowly all the rest. It did work for me, but it was a difficult time and I was frustrated and disappointed at first. It doesn't help that these things occur just when you are most exhausted, overwhelmed, and emotional! But I just wanted to give you a success story: I did get past it even though it took a little over two months. You have to do what's right for you, but if you can, keep hanging in there. It might take a while to get better, but hopefully it will like it did with me. Celina--I don't think my situation is as similar to yours, but if it is, please take heart that things might get better!

happy1nuv

10-07-2005, 11:14 AM

ok, nic's new trick is to beat me with his free hand while nursing... and, not to be a wimp about it, but ... it hurts, esp when he hits the other boob. i try and hold his hand, but then he grunts and arches hs back (taking my nip with him) until i let go. is this just a phase? and, any ideas for rediection?

BeachBum

10-07-2005, 11:25 AM

When Henry was born his skin was perfect-flawless. Now, at 4.5 weeks he is starting to get a few little pimply bumps (not bad, but its still ugly). Is this just what happens, or is it something that I'm eating? If it's my diet, what do you think is the culprit?

solongtogo

10-07-2005, 11:49 AM

newyorkgirl

10-07-2005, 11:53 AM

beachbum, that's likely just infant acne - caused by the surge of hormones from your body to his through the umbilical cord at the time you went into labor and delivered your baby. Not caused by diet and generally goes away between 3-6 months. It shouldn't bother the baby at all, but if it does, it might be something else (food sensitivity will cause intestinal distress and greener poops, eczema - baby will want to scratch) and you want to check with your ped.

Marisa

10-07-2005, 12:07 PM

happy -- it might be time to try something like a nursing necklace, or hand him a small soft toy to manipulate while he's nursing -- it can just distract him enough so that he will give you some peace!

BeachBum -- actually, hormonal newborn acne would appear to be clearing up at this point. What you're describing (red bumps, appearing around 4-6 weeks) can be a sign of a sensitivity, and one of the most likely culprits is dairy (followed closely by soy). That was one of the biggest clues I had that my son was sensitive to dairy in my diet -- babies often have trouble with the proteins in cow's milk (this isn't the same as being lactose intolerant, BTW)... soy proteins are very similar (that's why they make soy formula) so when baby is sensitive to one, they may be sensitive to both.

It's not really uncomfortable, this rash, but if it's a sign of a sensitivity you may see increased gassiness and fussiness as well, so it might be worthwhile to cut back on any dairy for the next week or two (dairy takes a long time to get out of your system fully). For me, one big reason to change my diet was that I didn't want to have to look back at his pictures and see that rash, KWIM? A bonus was that I dropped about 15 pounds during the months that I was off dairy (I started adding it back with no ill effects when he was about 7-8 months).

Marisa

10-07-2005, 12:11 PM

Just wanted to add a picture of my son at 3 mos, when I 'slipped' and had some dairy...

(I don't really like having pictures up, so I'll likely delete this after a while, but I thought it might be helpful to compare. :))

HGMorgann

10-07-2005, 12:19 PM

Beachbum - did you happen to have antibiotics a week or two ago? My daughter had horrible acne for about 2 weeks after I finished antibiotics for a UTI.

cocopops

10-07-2005, 12:40 PM

WOW just browsing and ran into this post and saw that you had your little one Celina CONGRATS :D the baby is beautiful!!!!!!

Did you have a boy or girl? What did you name him or her?

kakirk

10-07-2005, 01:18 PM

A few questions...

My milk supply *has* increased, but I'm not producing enough to fully get off of supplementing. It's taken a long time (nearly three months now!), but I'm finding a little peace about it, which is wonderful.

I do have a couple questions though.

1) Often when I nurse, the babies struggle in frustration at the breast when I'm empty. I'm usually able to pick them up & distract them and they stop fussing (for a while). Is this OK? Am I starving them by not giving them a bottle afterwords? Sometimes when they do this they go the full 3 hours before eating again, soemtiems they want to eat sooner. I fully believe in feeding on demand, but I don't know if they're "demanding" and I'm not doing what I should be doing.

2) Their poops are runny & seedy, like a BF poop, but they're not the mustard color. do you think this is due to the formula supplement or not getting enough hind-milk (all this talk about fore/hindmilk imbalance is freaking me out!)

3) When do they get more "efficient" at bf'ing? My babes seem to be pretty good at emptying the breast w/in 15 minutes. Sometimes they'll linger and comfort suck (and I let them for as long as tehy want!), other times tehy're done and ready to play. Should I still be insisting on longer feeds?? This is alos counter-intuitive to my belief in demand feeding, but they seem so young to be that efficient at bf'ing. Maybe I just have overachievers. :D

Katie

celina

10-07-2005, 01:18 PM

cocopops

Little girl, Alissa Dillan. :) Thank you.

Marisa

10-07-2005, 01:24 PM

Katie -- you're doing great, nursing twins with so little supplemental formula. Seriously! :)

Sometimes fussing at the breast, especially when you're at the end of a feeding, is baby's way of trying to get another letdown -- they suck actively and vigorously at the start of a feeding to stimulate the initial letdown, the fussing and pulling may be related to that... Also remember that they're due for another growth spurt soon, so they may be just trying to 'up' your supply these days.

I think the poop color is definitely from the formula -- the added iron can cause a greenish or blackish color.

They might be a little young to be so efficient, but honestly it's right around the right time. I remember the three-month growth spurt being a real milestone for Joey in a lot of ways.

kakirk

10-07-2005, 01:28 PM

they're due for another growth spurt soonI definitely think we're experiencing this right now -- seems they're hungry all the time! :D Fortunately, I am more confident and knwo what's going on a little more than for the 3 week or 6 week growth spurt. I'm also not beating myself up about the supplementing as much, which has helped wonders for the psyche, you know?

Also, I read that it only takes 4oz of breastmilk each day to confer all the immunities & antibodies to the baby -- my twins are each getting way more than that so I feel confident that they're at least getting the health benefits of my milk.

I don't seem to have a very strong let down, and it's often hard for me to get a 2nd let down, especially when they're struggling. I get tense which just makes it that much harder for the let down. I really have to concentrate on relaxing & deep breathing.

K

hiphopgirl

10-07-2005, 01:36 PM

Hi, I'm new to this thread. It looks like there is a lot of useful information, but I don't have the time to flip through the whole thing. I have a question about how to handle growth spurts while my son is in day care. I apologize if this question has already been answered somewhere in here already. Please feel free to just link me to where it is in this thread.

Specifically what I am worried about is that my son will need more BM while he is in a growth spurt and I won't have sent him to day care with enough food. He typically eats 3 4-oz bottles while in day care. I've heard that he will eventually need more (maybe as much as 8 oz. at each feeding). How do I know when he's going to need that much? He is going to be 3 months next week and I hear that there is a big growth spurt at 3 mos. so I've been sending him with more milk. Today I sent him with 3 6-oz bottles. It will be a big waste of milk if he doesn't drink it all, but I'd rather waste it then have him go hungry. Any feedback for how other mother's handled this would be great.

I also would like help on making sure that I can produce enough milk while I'm pumping at work to keep up with this demand. If he were exclusively bfing I know that my body would just know to produce more because he would be demanding more, but the pump doesn't know he needs more so how does that work? Does that make sense? Again, any help is appreciated.

Marisa

10-07-2005, 01:42 PM

hiphopgirl -- welcome! What a great picture of your DS! :D

The key, I think, is to let your DS nurse as often as possible while you are home with him, evenings, overnight, weekends... it's not ideal as far as the growth spurt, but it will help! I don't know if your work situation will allow, but can you sneak in an extra pumping session at any point, maybe just for a week or so?

I think that if I were in your situation, I'd probably send in an extra four oz. bottle rather than three larger sized bottles -- if he doesn't need the extra oz. yet, it might be wasted, but if he does the daycare provider could always break into the 'extra' bottle if he seems to need it. I think a baby will take more at a sitting if you are bottle feeding simply because it comes out so quickly, and I don't know if an extra 6 oz. is an appropriate jump to make all at once. (You know your son better than I do, obviously. I'm just coming at it from the 'conserving the milk' point of view, since you have to spend your time pumping it, you don't want to waste. ;))

December27JJB

10-07-2005, 02:12 PM

Delurking...
Hiphopgirl- I LOVE the picture of your DS!!! Hilarious!! Welcome! People here on this thread are great, they know everything from A to Z about breastfeeding and they've given me excellent advice! ;)

Now back to lurking...

Sebski

10-07-2005, 03:29 PM

I'm so intimidated to post in this thread... it means my baby is truly on his way! ;)

I took the BF class with DH a few weeks ago, but as babe's due date creeps near I'm feeling at a loss about what BF supplies to have on hand for when we first come home. And I feel like everything we learned in class has flown out of my head... I really want BF to work, so I hope you don't mind my lame questions! What do you suggest I have on hand for when we first come home from the hospital? Storage wise are baggies or containers better? I'm looking to have as much already home as possible because the last thing I want is to send a clueless DH to BRU at the last minute to purchase things. Lord knows what he'll come home with. Got any tips for me? Like how will I know when to feed him? The LC at the class told us to look for early stirring signs because its easier to get a latch that way rather then when he gets to the screaming point. Will I really know what those signs are? I'm so scared that BF won't work for me, I've heard some real horror stories from friends etc.

Thank you and wish me luck!!!

mollyeilis

10-07-2005, 04:33 PM

Sebski...the first thing I would recommend is to disallow any more "horror"? stories in your presence. Get up and walk away if someone starts one. Breastfeeding works most of the time, so surround yourself with THOSE stories. :)

Supplies? Honestly? You need your breasts. And a baby. :) But I suppose some breastpads would be nice. I hated one brand (they stuck to my nipples, ouch!) but loved the Avent disposables. Bought some reusable ones but they were so huge and thick, I don't think I ever wore them. So don't go out and buy a ton of one brand...

Big cups for water to scatter throughout your house. Lots of healthful snacks to leave with the water, so wherever you and baby wind up, you have food and water for yourself!

As for pumping, well, I wasn't able to do it at first. I tried but it hurt too much so I waited. I bought the Isis pump, figuring it should work but if it didn't I wasn't blowing a lot of money finding that out. It worked just fine, once I got back to pumping.

Have you gone to La Leche League meetings yet? They love love love pregnant women! Check some out while you have the luxury of having baby safely stowed away. :D If there are multiple meetings around your area, check out several (they are usually on different days from each other, and in my area each one group meets once a month), so you see if you click with any one group of people. LLL is SO much better for you than friends with "horror" stories.

Have you found a pediatrician/family doctor/naturopath (that's what we use, but I know most use peds or family docs) yet? Have you made sure that s/he actually KNOWS about breastfeeding? That's going to be one of the hot-button issues; a good ped/MD/ND can make things blissful and easy (it was our ND that suggested exclusive breastfeeding for a year, and it worked wonderfully, if "only" for 11 months until DS tackled me for an apple LOL) whereas someone who knows nothing and spreads ancient, out of date, and plain old WRONG information can be the *cause* of those horror stories!

So make sure you have someone knowledgable lined up. Or, as I like to say, doctors have very LITTLE training in any sort of nutrition, let alone infant nutrition. So if you have questions about infant nutrition, take it to a dietician trained specially, rather than getting the dubious benefit of one or two classes in general nutrition in medical school. :p

Back to pumping...with the Isis there were a few Avent bottles and such, and at first I just used those. Then I picked up some Avent storage bags and the bottle for use with bags, and used those; both worked just fine.

As for clueless hubby BRU visits, visit babiesrus.com first. AKA amazon.com. Find what you need there, print out the page, and hand it to clueless hubby to help him be less clueless. :)

All the stuff for breastfeeding, it's usually just stuff. The first line is breasts and baby, and usually no extra equipment is *needed*.

Marisa

10-07-2005, 04:33 PM

Hey Sebski! I think it's totally normal to feel pretty nervous as the big day approaches. Heck, my mom is a LC, I've been attending LLL meetings and childbirth classes since I was a baby, and I still felt completely unprepared. There's no way to really feel ready just by reading a book or taking a class or whatever. It's the Great Unknown. :)

Good things to have on hand to get started --
- a boppy or "My Brest Friend" or even a firm bed pillow, to raise baby to the right position
- Lansinoh purified lanolin ointment, for sore/cracked nipples
- big water bottles -- stay hydrated!
- make a list of phone #s in case you need help - your LC, local LLL group, whoever will talk you through
- breast pads, and burp cloths -- you might leak at first before your supply regulates to your baby's needs. You definitely can leak a little on one side while feeding on the other, that's normal.

You don't need to *worry* about pumping right at the beginning, though you're certainly allowed to if you feel up to it. The best thing would be to just spend the first week or so in bed with the baby, resting after the delivery and getting to know your baby's signs. It's hard to reassure you that you'll know when your baby is hungry, but you will -- if you pick up the baby and he turns to you and roots, he's hungry. If he's smacking his lips (Baby Fish Mouth, we like to call it at my house), he's hungry. With a newborn, you pretty much can't go wrong by offering the boob. Most newborns will eat 24/7 if you let them, so learn how to nurse lying on your side as soon as you're comfortable doing so. That way everyone can catch a little sleep. :)

For storage, when you've decided to pump, the baggies are better if you're stockpiling. You can freeze them flat and then stack them at the back of the freezer (the colder the better, it'll last longer). Many moms on here like the Lansinoh brand. Mark them clearly with the date, maybe on a piece of masking tape with a permanent marker if they don't have a good spot to write on. If you're just pumping to give an occasional bottle, and you have a good supply of bottles, you can store right in the container. I did a little of both when I would pump.

Try not to listen to the horror stories too much! And if I recall correctly from the WC, you and I are in the same general neighborhood, right? -- PM me if you need any extra help! :)

mollyeilis

10-07-2005, 04:38 PM

Marisa wrote...

"you might leak at first before your supply regulates to your baby's needs. You definitely can leak a little on one side while feeding on the other, that's normal"

Just last night I was leaking enough from the other side while nursing E that I could squirt the milk a foot or two. DS is 16 months old! So yeah, leaking from the other side is definitely normal. :D

"You can freeze them flat and then stack them at the back of the freezer "

Man, I never figured out how to do that! I only used Avent bags and those little clip things allowed leaking when I put the bags on their sides, so I had lots of little teardrop shaped (that's the only way to describe it) frozen bags in my freezer. How do you get them to be flat while they are still unfrozen?

Marisa

10-07-2005, 04:41 PM

I had the bags with the double-ziploc closure. Are those Lansinoh, or Medela? I don't remember! :) I was able to lay those flat with no problem. :)

moderngal

10-07-2005, 05:08 PM

LexyLou~ I feed C while sidelying every night. I never burp him. The positioning is pretty good and he really doesn't take in much air to cause a burp. We just drift right back to sleep. :)

BeachBum~ Baby Aquaphor cleared those little bumps up on my DS. :)

hiphopgirl~ When my DS was hitting growth spurts, I sent him to daycare with the same amounts of EBM and told them to call me if he was still hungry. I noticed he really just nursed a lot more when we were together rather than eating at daycare. It did mean a few nights with less sleep than usual, though. My body produced more milk that way, too. :)

BF supplies- I definitely 2nd having a Boppy!! Also Lansinoh cream and Soothies!! I prefer the Lansinoh bags (get them at Target).

AndreaMMS

10-07-2005, 05:12 PM

Marisa

Quote:
"Did the LC see anything remarkable about the shape of your breasts? If it's an issue of not having enough breast tissue/milk-producing glands, the breasts typically have a distinct look to them that's pretty recognizable."

Funny you should say that. She actually made a comment to me that my breasts were the "perfect shape," and judging by the look of the veins they appear to be normal....

By the way, Joey is SO CUTE!!!! :)

Sarah

10-07-2005, 05:22 PM

Hey Katie- as for the efficiency thing: my kiddo is younger than yours are, but she drains a breast in less than 15 minutes a lot of the time. She's usually gassy afterwards, and spits up a bit, and refuses to relatch. I think she's getting plenty, as she weighs about 15 lbs at 8 weeks. ;)

Sebski

10-07-2005, 05:22 PM

Thank you so much for the words of wisdom! The LC at BF class said not to introduce the bottle until after 3w but to pump if engorgement should happen before that point. So thats why I wasn't sure what to have on hand... I'm not purchasing a big expensive pump right off the bat, but am probably going to go w/ the Avent manual one (Isis I believe?) for starters. And I'll pickup some breastpads as well. We registered for bottles, but I plan on leaving them at my moms until the 3w point... I don't want to be tempted to use them before that time.

Its amazing the lack of support that I've found amongst family and friends when it comes to BF. DH has been WONDERFUL about it and really supports it. But, when it comes to my sisters, SILs and girlfriends its just not there... BF didn't work out for them for different reasons and now they frown on it. I find myself dodging the whole "are you going to BF or formula feed" question altogether because I'm met with "be prepared its much more difficult than you think" and such. As a result, this thread is really going to come in handy for me once baby arrives!

Marisa - yes, we're in the same neck of the woods! I'm in the Short Hills area and delivering out of St. Barnabas. The BF class that they offer was extremely helpful... I have the # of the LC/nurse who taught it since we really hit it off. I will definitely be paging you with BF questions - thank you! :)

LexyLou

10-07-2005, 05:46 PM

I just want to say that Marisa you rock. It's amazing how helpful you are to everyone. Thank you so much.

moderngal-off topic-can you use the aquaphor on their faces? Ella is super dry on her arms hands and belly so I've been using it and it's been helping but I didn't know if you could use it on baby faces.

BTW, I looked at Target today at the ingredients in Baby Aquaphor and regular Aquaphor and couldn't see any difference. Do you know what the difference is?

moderngal

10-07-2005, 06:05 PM

LexyLou~ I've used Aquaphor on the face with no problems. :)
I don't know if there is a difference in the Aquaphor vs. Baby Aquaphor. I bought the baby stuff just to be sure. And I think I paid $2 more, too. :rolleyes:

mollyeilis

10-07-2005, 06:16 PM

I had the bags with the double-ziploc closure. Are those Lansinoh, or Medela? I don't remember! :) I was able to lay those flat with no problem. :)

aha! so that's the secret! Thanks!

baboo

10-07-2005, 08:17 PM

hiphopgirl - Will your daycare let you keep frozen EBM in their freezer? Mine does and suggested that I keep an extra eight oz there just in case. I plan to rotate it out when it is about to expire. We haven't started daycare yet so I don't know how it will work but that is the plan to prevent baby from starving.

mcl

10-07-2005, 09:20 PM

hello ladies,

i am so discouraged because yesterday, my son had his 2 week appt. and he didn't gain his birth weight when i thought he would. he weighed 8lbs 2oz at birth and he is now 7lbs 7 oz which is what he was on our first dr's visit. the doctor told me that he is just maintaining but not gaining weight. she didn't recommend supplementing but wanted me to pump every 2 hours instead of breastfeeding to see how much i'm getting out. she said that he should at least be eating 2 oz. per feeding. right after i left the dr.s office, i did what she said and now i feel like i have no milk. my breast are so soft and i am now just able to pump about 1 ounce from both breast combined. because of this, i decided to try mother's milk tea. what do you guys think? do you think i'll eventually get my milk back? any suggestions?

Marisa

10-07-2005, 09:33 PM

mcl - You won't believe this but the exact same thing happened to us as well. My DS was 8,8 at birth, left the hospital at 7,11 and was only 7,12 at his 2-week visit. He was a sleepy baby and I was waking him every two hours to eat (that's two hours from the start of a feeding, so 1 AM, 3 AM, 5 AM, etc.).

One of our biggest problems was the length of each feeding -- he was so sleepy that he'd pass out before he got to the really good fatty hindmilk. I had a lot of milk, that wasn't the problem -- he just wasn't getting to the fattier stuff to gain weight. (The milk they get at first is called foremilk, it's more thirst-quenching and watery, still nutritious, but they need to nurse for about 10-15 minutes to get at the fattier hindmilk.)

How often is your son eating now, and how long does each session last? Pumping is unfortunately *not* a good way to tell how much milk you have -- some women respond to the pump and others do not. What your dr. could do is have you come in for a weigh-and-feed -- you weigh the baby in nothing but a clean diaper, about an hour or so after his last meal. Then you nurse for 20 minutes, then weigh again to see how many oz. he's taken in. It's a much better indicator of how much the baby is able to get from you.

My best advice would be to have a little 'nurse-in' for the weekend, nurse as often as you can and don't let him go longer than 3 hours, even at night... make sure he stays awake for at least 10-15 minutes. Hopefully you've got your DH home with you for the weekend because you should really just put your feet up, drink plenty of water, eat some oatmeal (good for milk supply!) and concentrate on your DS. Mother's Milk tea is good, it has the herb fenugreek (along with other herbs) that encourage milk production. You can also buy fenugreek separately in capsule form if you decide you'd like to try that.

We pulled out of this at around 3 weeks when my son finally 'woke' a little and stayed on for longer stretches -- then he started gaining like crazy! :) I hope that this works for you!

LexyLou

10-07-2005, 11:51 PM

I'm so sorry MCL. :( I don't know what your milk supply is like but if you are able to maybe you could nurse him on one side for 2 full feedings that way you can make sure he gets to the hind milk. That's what I've been doing but I also have an over abundant supply of milk so it takes that long for her to get to it.

We have to go in on Tuesday to weigh Ella and I'm sure she won't be up to her birth weight either since she was 7lb 3 oz at birth and only up to 6lb 9 oz at one week so unless she gained 9 oz in 7 days she won't have made weight either. It's such a bummer...but hopefully it will get easier for all us new mommies.

Breastfeeding in Public-Did anyone see Dr. Phil today? How do you breastfeed in public? I've been trying to practice with a blanket and I'm horrible. How can I see what's going on with her when I cover with a blanket? I keep having to lift it up over my head. Does anyone have any secrets for discreet public BFing?

pgbg

10-08-2005, 06:59 AM

Sebski I just wanted to tell you that I was in the exact same boat as you, and now my DS is 5 weeks and I'm loving BF!! My friends and SIL all formula fed. The first week was the worst -- no one understood why I was so tired ("if you give him a bottle of formula he'll sleep all night" or "why don't you just hire someone to feed him at night?") -- it was tempting, but I persevered. I was also dealing with severe neck pains/headaches from the epidural, which made it hard to look down at DS and help him latch! But still I kept going...
Although I felt like I had no idea what I was doing, at 1 week, he was up to his birth weight. At 4 weeks, he had gained 2 lbs! That's when DH really became impressed at my "milk machine" and everyone else seemed accept that I'm BF. We did start introducing one bottle every few days after 4 weeks, just so DH could get to feed him.
So....I guess I just wanted to reassure you. I was totally clueless before I gave birth -- no support system for BF, and I'd taken a hospital class but that's it. I had a "Brest Friend" (which I love -- except I use a Boppy when I'm in the glider b/c it fits better), Lansinoh (which you'll need for the 1st week or so as your nipples get used to BF -- and don't worry, the soreness goes away), and lots of water and snacks like everyone else said. I recommend sports water bottles, so you don't have to struggle opening a water bottle while holding baby (and I also spilled every cup I tried to keep with me!).:p

Sorry this is so long and from someone who's more a "lurker" -- I really only jump in here when I actually have some advice to give...it isn't often!:) Everyone else has so much good advice and support -- I relied on this board when I first started BF, and I still read it several times a day!

moderngal

10-08-2005, 07:36 AM

BF'ing in public I still get a little nervous doing it, but I've gotten better. Wearing nursing clothes helps- you can't see anything while wearing them. (try expressiva.com, motherswear.com, and even babystyle.com). I also know the locations of some pretty nice mothers lounges- Nordstrom's is the best, but I've also had good luck at a few Macy's and most maternity shops will let you BF there, too. And I don't use a blanket- I am more clumsy with it and I think it screams NIP more than without it.

adore_one

10-08-2005, 08:36 AM

Lex This is by far my favorite purchase for NIP -
http://www.bebeaulait.com/gallery/5.jpg
it is called a "hooter hider" - the top stays out with the help of plastic it totally works. I was able to BF R in public, and you have heard our issues - I constantly have to watch him.

The websie is www.bebeaulait.com
They ship fast but there is also a store in Del Mar that carries them so check out the retailers page.

and she is beautiful lex!!!

snowzilla

10-08-2005, 08:56 AM

Just thinking aloud here - if anybody has any thoughts to share, I'd love to hear them.

DD is 8 weeks as of yesterday, and weighed in at 11 pounds, 1 ounce at her 6 week checkup, and is still gaining, I'm sure. :) She nurses anywhere between 7-10 times during the day (this takes into account her clusterfeeding habits in the evening).

In the evening we're having a heck of a time getting her "down". She is usually awake by 4 or 5 pm, we start the bedtime routine anywhere between 6:30 or later (depending on when she woke up from her previous nap), and no amount of trying or promising her ponies and ballerina shoes will get her to go to sleep again before 10 or 11 pm. Once she is finally down, she sleeps until approximately 2 or 3, eats, falls asleep until 5, eats, and sleeps until 8 am.

We cosleep - she was originally in a bassinet beside the bed, but that lasted about two weeks, until she was past her sleepy newborn phase, and into her more alert, I-don't-wanna-sleep phase, and she's been exclusively cosleeping ever since.

At her six-week checkup, the ped's opinion was that she should be sleeping for at LEAST a six hour stretch at night, especially given that she cluster feeds before going down. But she's barely sleeping four hours. Not that I mind - since we're cosleeping, it's really no big deal - I wake up, nurse her in a half-dreamlike state, and we both fall back asleep with little to no difficulty.

I should mention that I don't actually *listen* to most of what her ped has to say - this doctor also encourage CIO from very early on (as in when you bring them home from the hospital, eek) in a handout she gives all her moms. :( So I'm not worried that I'm doing something wrong simply because it doesn't jive with what the ped is telling me - I guess I'm more curious than anything what *other* babies are/were doing at 8 weeks of age. Is the stretch of sleep usually longer? Is the cosleeping actually waking her up to eat when she doesn't need to, simply because the "source" is laying right next to her? ;)

This is my third child, and I'm finding her very unique compared to her older siblings! They coslept with me as well, but they eliminated their own middle-of-the-night feedings on their own, and I honestly don't remember exactly *when* they did that, because that was 7 and 9 years ago, respectively! They also didn't have any difficulties falling asleep at night - I have no idea how to handle the bedtime routine differently, but the way it is now, she fights it! :rolleyes:

Like I said, I'm just thinking aloud here, and I'm not worried or trying to force her to STTN by any means - I guess it's almost more of a combined cosleeping/BF question - is cosleeping disrupting her sleep, or is she doing just fine.....? Because she's exclusive BF, will she continue to wake up to eat so close to her last feeding at night? I'm just curious, more than anything else! :)

ellybelle

10-08-2005, 09:39 AM

snowzilla Just from personal experience and observation, there are plenty of kids who don't follow the STTN "rules", and certainly not at 8 weeks. My daughter ended up co-sleeping (wouldn't even sleep in the bedside co-sleeper) and woke every 3-4hours until she was about 3 months old. She tended to feed more at night. Your doc is just spouting some old school stuff about children's sleep patterns.

I think I remember the first sleep was the longest (she'd sleep from 9 or 10 till about 2 am) and then wake up every 2-3 hours after that.

If you want to read up on newer thinking on infant sleep, you can read "The No-Cry Sleep Solution" or "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child." But know that your child is normal -- there are plenty of infants that do the same.

LeslieR

10-08-2005, 09:52 AM

Carla, Luke's first stretch of sleep is anywhere from 4-5 hours. I don't know what I would do with myself if he slept for 6 hours straight! All the other stretches of sleep after that are a crapshoot. He wakes up when he wants to-could be an hour later, could be 3 hours later.:rolleyes:

NIP- I got the Hooter Hider, too. I can't wait to use it. I tried it on the day it came and it seems perfect. We'll see tomorrow as that will likely be the first time we will NIP.

Mickey&B

10-08-2005, 09:53 AM

Quick question:
I was put on antibotics this week which do pass through breastmilk, should I not be pumping and storing until I am done with the antibotics?

maggieb

10-08-2005, 09:57 AM

Mickey&B: Here's a link to kellymom about antibiotics and breastfeeding. It looks as if most antibiotics are approved for breastfeeding, so no reason to pump and dump. Hope you feel better.
http://kellymom.com/health/meds/aap-approved-meds.html#Antibiotics

Marisa

10-08-2005, 10:13 AM

Snowzilla -- 4 hours is a great stretch for an 8 week old! I think that a lot of babies don't get more organized with their sleep until they're at LEAST out of the 'fourth trimester' - maybe around 3-4 months. Some other babies take until well after they're six months, and that's normal too. Sleep can be disrupted by so many things (growth spurts, teething, developmental stuff) during the first year, that I'd say just do what feels right and works for your family, if co-sleeping is what gets everyone a little more rest. :)

M&B -- as maggieb said, almost any antibiotic you'd be prescribed would be safe. PM me if you want me to look up the specific med, I have Dr. Hale's book right here. :)

snowzilla

10-08-2005, 11:11 AM

Thanks ladies - as I said, I'm not wishing for a full night's sleep (although i certainly wouldn't turn it down, lol) but was more curious as to what the general "norm" is for other 8-week olds.

Then I remind myself there isn't really a "norm" when it comes to most of this baby stuff! :D

LexyLou

10-08-2005, 11:46 AM

Thanks guys for the Hooter Hider info and nursing wear info. I originally thought nursing clothes were a waste of money but it sounds like it might be a good investment. I'm going to check out the websites.

Thanks Stace-Maybe she and R can go on a date.;)

Spit up and Vomit-We are still working to slow the flow and I think it's going pretty well but DD is spitting up like crazy after each feed. It's got to be everything that she just took in. I've never seen so much spit up and sometimes even vomit. Does this mean shes not getting any food to stay down? What can I do about it?

BTW, this morning we did side lying and she proceeded to spit up a ton all off the sheets...which werer just changed yesterday too. arggg. I burp her like crazy, give her malicon, etc... so why is she spitting up such great quantities?

lil_nance

10-08-2005, 12:06 PM

BTW, this morning we did side lying and she proceeded to spit up a ton all off the sheets...which were just changed yesterday too. arggg. I have a heavy letdown and DS tends to dribble. After a few wet sheets, I started putting a folded cloth diaper or lap pad under his head when side lying. No more wet sheets. :)

SiValleySteph

10-08-2005, 12:14 PM

BTW, this morning we did side lying and she proceeded to spit up a ton all off the sheets...which werer just changed yesterday too. arggg. I burp her like crazy, give her malicon, etc... so why is she spitting up such great quantities?

This happened to us last night at 4AM. Then we had to wait for daddy to get us a burp cloth to put over it which caused DS to really wake up and not go back to sleep until 5. And he's 1. :rolleyes:

My DS spit up every feeding (except he was usually okay in the middle of the night) for about the first 3-4 months of his life. I don't remember when he really stopped but it was like all of a sudden I realized I didn't have to have a burp cloth attached to me at all times. He was getting down plenty though and gained weight rapidly. He didn't seem to be in any pain or anything, so there was no treatment.

As for nursing in public, we just did. At first I used a receiving blanket to cover my tummy, but only for a little while. I didn't mess with any thing over his head because he was like "no way, mom!" You really can't see anything when you just pull up a shirt - baby covers your stomach, his/her head covers the nipple area, and your shirt covers the top of the breast. I still NIP a little now (1 year old), but not much because he really only likes to nurse now in a totally boring environment.

LeslieR

10-08-2005, 12:14 PM

LexyLou, my son spits up A TON. I mean, like no baby I have ever seen. You would think he's not keeping anything down at all. Well, he just had his two month check up on Thursday and he weighed in at a whopping 16lbs 3 1/4oz! I'd say he's keeping plenty down.;) I mentioned the spitting up to the ped and she asked if he was crying before or during and I said no. She said it's probably just normal baby spit up and not reflux, so no worries.:)

lil_nance

10-08-2005, 12:30 PM

LexyLou Your situation sounds just like me and DS. I'm so frustrated right now. So now I have an over-supply and a strong let down. I'm pretty much drowning her and I feel horrible. In addition to side lying, I found that having his butt lower than his head helped him a bit. Basically it was a cradle hold but more so he was at an angle. Make sure you have a good latch before trying this though. Since you're still new at BFing, I don't want to screw up your latch and cause more problems.

The other thing that helped was time. I know this doesn't help you right now but honestly, as he got older the letdown evened out a bit and he was more able to handle it. I think things got a bit better between 4-6wk and then a big improvement between 6-8wk. So even though it's super frustrating (I've been there), try to have patience.

Finally, even with the spit up, she's probably getting more than you realize. DS gained 3lb between his 1 and 2mo check ups. I was surprised.

Dally

10-08-2005, 12:38 PM

Snowzilla--My DD is 5 months and has slept six straight hours maybe ten times ever--and definitely not as young as 8 weeks.

BF poop question--For some reason, DD's poop has started to stink! Instead of the sweetish smell it was, it's pretty bad now. She's still exclusively BF'd. Is something wrong? It also turned green just when it started to stink (about four days ago). Now it's yellow and green, but still bad smelling. These are the factors I wondered about: she's had some thawed EBM at daycare (but not much), I started taking fenugreek again (though this didn't happen the last time I took it), she gets some bathwater in her mouth, I ate a bunch of candy corn (but it was just one day!), and she's teething and swallowing a lot of saliva. Any thoughts for me? I want to make sure nothing's wrong! Plus, I thought I wouldn't have to deal with smelly diapers until I introduced solids...:rolleyes:

Marisa

10-08-2005, 12:48 PM

Dally -- since she's at daycare she might have been exposed to some kind of bug... that can show up as a change in poop (different smell/color/consistency).

Can you think of anything else that might have been different in your diet in the day or so before you started seeing the stinky poop?

For us, stinky poop typically would accompany some kind of minor stomach upset -- when he was still mostly BF but getting some solids it was a major clue that whatever he ate that day didn't agree with him, because otherwise the poops would be your typical BF poops.

LexyLou

10-08-2005, 06:51 PM

I have a heavy letdown and DS tends to dribble. After a few wet sheets, I started putting a folded cloth diaper or lap pad under his head when side lying. No more wet sheets. :)

Good idea. I'll try that tonight. Lesson learned. :D Thank you also for the encouragement. I hope it gets better soon. I just feel so badly for her.

Thank you everyone for the spit up info. We go in on Tuesday to weigh her again. I sure hope she's gaining and close to her birth weight.

NYN

10-08-2005, 07:10 PM

Is the cosleeping actually waking her up to eat when she doesn't need to, simply because the "source" is laying right next to her?
for us it works the opposite way (i am currently trying to transition her). if i put her in the bedside co-sleeper she wakes up every three to four hours w/out fail. when she sleeps in my bed she sleeps a minimum of 6 hours. DH is the one who is pushing me to get her into the co-sleeper so i make sure i kick him awake everytime she wakes up for a feeding, lol.

nursing in public: i think this is one of those things you can't plan for. i nurse her everywhere and i surprised myself at how easy it was for me. at the beginning i didn't think it would even be possible but once we both got the hang of nursing it became so natural. i have a large chest and i found nursing tanks to be too exposing so i make sure that i wear shirts i can easily lift. i bought one of those hooter hider things too but i never actually tried using it (it was really too hot until now) but i think they are a great idea.

celina

10-08-2005, 07:45 PM

Stacy
Thank you!! I was way off. :o I guess the lasck of sleep is getting to me more than I though! Doh.

mollyeilis

10-08-2005, 08:48 PM

We go in on Tuesday to weigh her again. I sure hope she's gaining and close to her birth weight.

Please be sure they are paying attention to her growth. It really freaks me out that these care providers seem to *only* notice weight. Calories do other things, besides just putting on weight! Growth includes weight, height, body chances, mental changes...just so many more things that pure poundage.

*****
NIP...I support it, and thought it would be more fun, but I'm not the hugest fan of flashing people, so I don't do it all that often. I tend to go to a car, or to a dressing room to "try on bras" or something. :rolleyes:

That said, I found some thin, long $5 tank tops at Target. Bought a white smaller size and several larger colors. (in retrospect I think I should have gone the opposite way LOL...the under-layer being larger/longer) I layer a color on top of the white, and the armholes are such that I can put my hand up under my shirt, slide my bra cup over and let the breast out the stretched forward armhole. The undershirt, though stretched at the armhole, stays down and covers my midriff while the top layer lightly covers my breast. Voila, easier NIP.

Got us through Disney a few weeks ago! :D

*****
snowyZ...that ped is being silly! I'm sure there are bitty babies out there who can healthily and on their own sleep that long, but I doubt there are many! I think it's happened once with us, and it really freaked me out and caused me major boob-pain from the engorgement! I know you have the Baby Book, what does he say about it all?

As for waking her up b/c of the food source right there, I'm just not sure that works for a baby. It's not like the smell of coffee and (soy)bacon wafting through a campground at dawn. :) Rather, I think a baby will sleep *more* if s/he doesn't have to wake her/himself up enough to cry loud enough to be heard through doors just to get fed. :p