Breastfeeding Help and Support [Archive] - Page 5

Marisa

09-25-2005, 06:43 PM

Holly -- I think any slobber would probably be helpful. ;)

saathei - I'm going to bet on the stuffy noses giving them trouble. The only times we had a "nursing strike" around here was when Joey was either teething or getting a cold -- something that made it uncomfortable for him to eat. In both cases giving him access to a bottle or sippy during the day got us through, I pumped when I could, and then he was receptive to nursing a little when he was sleepy.

Diane -- I wound up doing both dairy and soy -- the proteins in dairy and soy are very similar, and that's what babies tend to have a problem with at this age. (NOT the same as lactose intolerance, btw -- true lactose intolerance in a newborn is called galactosemia and would be a really big deal -- they screen for it right after birth.)
Anyway, I tried just switching all my usual dairy products to soy (soy ice cream, soymilk) and Joey went from rashy and uncomfortable to stinky and gassy and uncomfortable. So I dropped the soy as well and saw an improvement fairly quickly. I got used to using rice milk or almond milk in my tea and cereal... there are lots of good non-soy 'dairy substitutes' at the health food store...

chloe -- we co-sleep as well, and I've recently begun kicking around the idea of a toddler bed myself. Not that I don't love sleeping with my baby, I do. But I get the feeling that he sleeps a little more soundly when I'm not there. My plan is to get a small bed that fits his crib mattress (currently on the floor in his room since we disassembled the crib) and put it near our bed in the master bedroom. One transition at a time. He can start the night there and then join us when he needs to.
You might want to check out Dr. Jay Gordon's book "Good Nights", it's geared toward the family bed and has a section on nightweaning as well.
As for feeding on demand, it's what you're comfortable with. Once Joey started really eating solid foods several times a day (he's still quite a snacker, several small 'meals') then he dropped to 3-4 nursing sessions a day (counting overnight as well). Happy Birthday to your DD! :)

Jen -- I don't think that the deli meat has anything to do with it. :) But if you'd like to try feeding on the less-productive side first, that wouldn't be a bad idea. When you have oversupply, one of the dangers is that baby is filling up on watery 'foremilk' and not having room for the fattier hindmilk -- both are good (foremilk is thirst-quenching, hindmilk is nourishing) but obviously she needs the fat in order to gain rapidly as she's supposed to at this stage. It's fine to continue to nurse on one side too, even if you feel 'spent', because she will continue to get the rich, fatty milk as your body continually produces more. She won't starve -- her tummy is only the size of her fist, so I imagine she's getting plenty. ;)

yoganut

09-25-2005, 08:35 PM

Hi Ladies.

I was active in this thread on the 'other site' when DS #1 was younger and nursing. In preparation for DS#2's arrival, I have a question and would love advice from anyone who has read about this or with experience.

I had a rocky start to my bf relationship with DS #1 because of flat and semi-inverted nipples. My ob didn't say anything about them to me in advance, so I didn't really know I had an issue until I tried bf in the hospital. There they gave me some of the medela shells to wear in my bra, and it helped a little...but honestly I think it was a little too late. I ended up being dependent on nipple shields for the first 6 weeks, which was a huge PITA. Everthing worked out and nursing helped fix the nipple problem eventually. I am pleased with how bf worked out for us last time, and I nursed for 13 months (pumping once I was back at work) until DS self-weaned.

Now, I am 26 weeks pg with DS#2. I am really surprised, but it looks like my nipples have flattened out again. I brought it up to my ob, and she kind of blew me off. I am looking for advice on what to do. I have the shells from last time. Does anyone know how far in advance LLL or LC's recommend using them? I am really hoping to avoid the same issues I had last time, and get things off to a smoother start.

TIA!

dbers

09-25-2005, 08:40 PM

Thanks Marisa - I may try switching to soy first (actually my sister did this with her DD and it worked wonders).. but I'll be aware that I may have to give up soy as well. It's all worth it to make them more comfortable!

Cr8nme

09-25-2005, 09:12 PM

I have a concern: My DD is 3 weeks old today. We are making it through the growth spurt! However, she has begun to spit up 3 or more times a day. It comes out her mouth and nose. Also she burp a lot. I gave her some mylecon a couple of days a ago and that helped but the throwing up has continued. Any ideas on how to help her???

Michelle

lady1297

09-26-2005, 05:31 AM

Should I still be feeding on demand? How often? What if I want to wean except for morning and evening?

DS is 13months old a nurses on and off on demand all day. I figured, I don't ask anymore. He does. He'll hand me my boppy and climb onto my lap and nurse. But I did cut out the quick snacks. And I give him 2 milk sippies a day (although he doesn't drink much of it).

cynder

09-26-2005, 07:18 AM

DS went on a nursing strike this weekend. It was so upsetting. The weird part is that he continues to nurse for our morning session after he wakes up but won't nurse during the day or night. I am a working mom so we have one session in the AM and 1-2 in the PM. I try to nurse all throughout the weekend but he would scream anytime he came near my boob. He was fine with EBM in the bottle. And nothing in my diet changed this week. I did work out very heavily on Sat. I heard that this might affect it but then why would DS nurse in the AM.

Any advice?

SD601

09-26-2005, 07:41 AM

Michelle, my DS spits up much more frequently during his growth spurts. He just eats and eats and eats and then spits up and then eats again. If the silly boy would just stop eating...anyway, his gets better afterwards. He's currently going through a six week growth spurt, now. Joy...

Update on the nipple shield: We are almost weaned off and he's nursing fine. It is soo much easier now without it. He'll be six weeks tomorrow. Thanks for all the input!

Question about travel: am I nuts to attempt a plane ride next weekend when he's almost 8 weeks old (3 weeks adjusted)? We are thinking about visiting the great grandmas when he's still little. I'm not very good at breastfeeding in public, so I usually give him a bottle of EBM if we are out. How do I transport BM on a plane? All my BM is frozen now. I would bring my pump to our destination. DH thinks it's going to be too difficult, but my grandma will not be around very much longer, so I want to go. Has anyone else traveled with such a little baby?

hmmm...maybe I'll post this elsewhere, too.

SiValleySteph

09-26-2005, 08:24 AM

just wanted to stop in and congratulate our own SiVallleySteph on a year of pumping and nursing! Way to go, Steph!

Thanks Sarah & lady! :D:D

The official day is tomorrow. I'm so happy that we were able to go the whole year without needing any formula. I'm very proud of myself, my baby and my husband for supporting us! :D

Montaukbea

09-26-2005, 11:08 AM

Thanks for all the great advice from this board! I have a question: DS is just over 8 weeks old and feeds every 2 hours during the day. When does the daytime feedings spread out more like the nightime feedings? Thanks so much!

Marisa

09-26-2005, 11:19 AM

cynder - is it possible that he's getting a cold or a tooth, are his ears bothering him? Physical discomfort is a common reason for a nursing strike (getting milk from the bottle is easier and uses different muscles so it might not be as uncomfortable). Perhaps he's still sleepy enough during the AM feeding, or he feels ok after a night of sleep, but as the day goes on he's not as willing.

I used the tips on Kellymom whenever Joey refused to nurse:
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/back-to-breast.html

SD - our first plane trip was when Joey was 4 mos old... not quite as little, but similar. IMO it's easier to travel with them now, they'll sleep most of the time and they're much more portable!

If you can, pump before the trip and bring fresh milk (refrigerated is fine, just not frozen). Get one of those insulated lunch bags and pack the bottle(s) with some cold packs. Fresh milk can stay good up to 10 hours at normal room temperature, so even longer when it's being kept colder. You should have no trouble.

Congrats on weaning from the nipple shield! It sounds like he just needed to get a little past his actual due date and he's getting it figured out!

Steph - I can't believe it's been a year! Go you! :)

montauk - in our case, Joey started spacing feedings a little more after the 3 month growth spurt, though I wouldn't say he was really able to consistently go 3+ hours until after the 6 month spurt. Since BM is digested pretty easily -- within an hour and a half usually -- it's not uncommon to have frequent feedings while baby is still receiving most of their nutrition from breastfeeding. However, another bonus is sometime around 3-4 months they get so *good* at it that a normal nursing session might take only 10 minutes or so. They're stronger, they can take in more at once. So instead of being parked on the couch for 45 minutes, you're only there for 5-10 minutes, and you can get on with your day. :)

cynder

09-26-2005, 12:29 PM

Steph Congrats on your big milestone. You should be really proud.

Marisa He has been a little congested the last few days. I thought the same thing about being drowsy in the morning which is why I ambushed him yesterday as soon as he was stirring. But then this morning he was playing in his crib for about an 40 minutes nicely before I got up to nurse. He was wide awake, grinning like a fool and nursed great. The real test will be to see if he nurses tonight. Thanks anyhow!

chloechloe

09-26-2005, 12:32 PM

TODAY is DD First birthday! And we are still bfing! WOOOHOOO

SiValleySteph

09-26-2005, 12:33 PM

TODAY is DD First birthday! And we are still bfing! WOOOHOOO

Happy birthday to your DD! And congrats! :D

Oh, and I nurse DS to sleep almost 100% of the time, but he has no problem with a sitter. He goes to parent's night out 1x a month and goes to sleep there fine and we have had a sitter in our home once and my mom has watched him 2 or 3 times and he has been able to go to sleep without nursing and with minimal crying.

Daniel's Kitty

09-26-2005, 01:14 PM

Congrats on one year!

Question? About how much do babies take at one time when they are 6 weeks? I can pump about 7 ounces and Ben drains me with his feedings. He isn't chubby or any thing, he barely fills out 3-6 month pants and they are the right length. I don't want him to be hungry, I am just curious. I know he is a little piggy

Sarah

09-26-2005, 01:59 PM

My DD is 7 weeks and on the big side for her age, and will take about 2-3 oz in a full feeding from a bottle (of EBM). I don't know how much she takes from the breast, though.

Chloe- Congratulations! I remember hitting the one year and two year marks and being so nostalgic and happy. You have given your baby an amazing start!!!

Koala_Gurl

09-26-2005, 02:14 PM

Hi all! I have a question that I hope some "experts" can advise me on!!

I am going for a day trip to a football game sans DD (flying in & out the same day). DD will be about 7 months, and I am still BFing. We will be gone for about 13 - 14 hours. I hadn't even thought about pumping, but I don't want to "ruin" my supply (I haven't really had issues with it before, so I am not *too* worried.)

Will not pumping really affect my supply? Should I bring my PIS as my purse for that day (I can't imagine pumping at the game, but at least at the airport???) I figured some pumping would be better than none??

SiValleySteph

09-26-2005, 02:20 PM

I am going for a day trip to a football game sans DD (flying in & out the same day). DD will be about 7 months, and I am still BFing. We will be gone for about 13 - 14 hours. I hadn't even thought about pumping, but I don't want to "ruin" my supply...

I don't know about ruining your supply, but I'm pretty sure you are going to want to pump at least a little bit for your own comfort. You'll probably get engorged if you are used to feeding your DD multiple times during the day. I have friends who have pumped at the airport/on the plane before and both got a lot of positive comments! :)

Have fun at the game!

SiValleySteph

09-26-2005, 02:23 PM

Oh, and thanks marisa & cynder. I can't believe it's been a year. Sniff, sniff.

MurphysLaw

09-26-2005, 03:28 PM

I got this in an email a while back and thought I would share...nothing really important, just hoping to give everyone a little smile. :)

Mothers Milk

Students in an advanced Biology class were taking their mid-term exam.

The last question was, "Name seven advantages of Mothers Milk," worth 70 points or none at all.

One student, who had also partied the night before, was hard put to think of seven advantages.

He wrote:
1. It is perfect formula for the child.
2. It provides immunity against several diseases.
3. It is always at the right temperature.
4. It is inexpensive.
5. It bonds the child to mother, and vice versa.
6. It is always available as needed.
And then, the student was stuck.

Finally, in desperation, just before the bell indicating the end of the test rang, he wrote
...
...
...
...
...
...

7. It comes in such cute containers.:D

PrincessCrappy

09-26-2005, 05:03 PM

Help! My 3.5 week old is trying to rip off my nipple! He has been a champion nurser since day one -- however he is starting a very painful habit. While nursing he will suddenly start screaming and thrashing his head back and forth, throwing his arms and legs around and pulling my nipple while it's in his mouth with all his might. What's going on? Is my milk coming out too fast? Too slow? Is he simply trying to take my nipple with him? Sometimes when I'm able to remove him after one of these fits, he'll fall right asleep. Other times he'll root around like crazy until he's latched on again. It's happening at almost every night feeding and probably every other session during the day. Any thoughts? Suggestions?

maggieb

09-26-2005, 05:35 PM

PrincessCrappy: My guess is that he's reacting to either a fast letdown or is impatient b/c the milk isn't coming out as quickly as he'd like it to. Does he do this at the beginning of the nursing session, in the middle or towards the end? If it's the beginning it's probably a fast letdown, middle then my guess is that he wants more milk and you may want to try compressing your breast a little bit to get more milk out. Here's some info from kellymom (http://www.kellymom.com/newman/15breast_compression.html) on how to do a breast compression. If he's fussing towards the end of a session, then my guess is that he's done and wants to suck, but he's mad b/c milk is still coming out. Hope that helps some.

KimandGino: That's hilarious! :D

My little munchin has been spitting up since day one, has had numerous rashes, congestion and now has had green poop twice today. I have been dairy-free for most of her almost 3 mos of life and soy-free for about half of that. I really haven't seen much improvement in her symptoms. Today I decided that it's time for me to try the Dr. Sears Elimination diet so I can find out exactly what's bothering her. Has anyone successfully tried this diet and actually was able to pinpoint what was bothering your DC? DH and I went grocery shopping today for the foods and I had dinner and it wasn't too bad, but I can imagine that two weeks of this must get old. Anyone else?

moderngal

09-26-2005, 05:39 PM

Princess Crappy~ my DS did that, too. I was thinking that it was him trying to get another let down. I don't know though. I don't remember it lasting long though.

Have we discussed how to tell people to back off with their "advice" about BF'ing? I feel like lately more and more people have something to say about me BF'ing or me not giving DS solids yet. I know what we're planning to do and I am very confident in our decision to wait to introduce solids. And I've also gotten the "you're not going to BF your son until he's 5 are you?" lately. It's aggravating. My son isn't even 6 months yet and people seem to think I'm nuts. I dunno, I guess I just feel like I need a little support or comebacks to shut these people up.

gizzyntaz

09-26-2005, 05:42 PM

Maggie Are you talking about the turkey, rice, squash, pears & potatoes diet? I know that catgirl did it for awhile, I think she may have been successful. I tried it for a week after I had already unsuccessfully cut the big eight (dairy, soy, wheat, corn, nuts, etc.) After a week I was losing too much weight and was getting really depressed. I went to DS's ped. and he told me to continue cutting wheat & dairy, as those are the most likely culprits. After another month of that, we determined dairy was fine - wheat was not. I've been wheat-free since DS was 4 weeks old.

It's a drastic diet, and it may take 3+ weeks for your daughter to become symptom-free before you can start adding things back in. I would do it as a last resort...but, best of luck to you and kudos for being willing to take that step for your daughter!

- Alison :)

maggieb

09-26-2005, 05:47 PM

Alison: Yes, that diet! I could stand to lose a few pounds, but I do worry about variety and hating food. Has it been hard to be wheat-free? It seems like just about everything has wheat in it. Kudos to you too! Our peds have really blown me off when I tell them about Marisa's symptoms and tell me that I shouldn't cut anything out unless she's losing weight and/or has excema all over her body. I was so frustrated. She's not in pain anymore b/c she's on Zantac, but she is uncomfortable. I have been researching a new ped and think that I found a good one. I hope so. I just want a second opinion.

ahavnes

09-26-2005, 05:57 PM

Maggie- No advice, but I just wanted to say I'm sorry that you and Marisa are going through this! I hope you find a new (good) ped and get things cleared up soon. :)

(Hijack over)

Marisa

09-26-2005, 06:07 PM

Maggie -- I didn't have to go that drastic either, but I can sympathize. You definitely have my support and admiration! :)

moderngal -- I personally find that the AAP's new breastfeeding guidelines are really helpful in these situations, especially for the "older coworker ladies". I went back to work at the library briefly when Joey was around 6 mos, so all the helpful little old ladies who worked the counter wanted to tell me what it was like when their kids were little. You wouldn't believe their teething 'remedies' (involving lots of hard liquor)! :eek:

I got through those few months by doing a variation on "times have changed", but since the new guidelines came out in Feb. I'm more prone to bring that up as an authoritative opinion. i.e. --

Old Biddy: What?? That baby's not eating 'real' food yet? When my son was three weeks old we started him on meat!
Me: That's so interesting, because the American Academy of Pediatrics has come out with a new set of guidelines, blah blah, studies on obesity and diabetes, blah, waiting until at least six months... etc. Times have really changed, huh?

The AAP guidelines also specifically mention that babies are healthier if they are nursed for two years, and that nursing three years or longer has no harmful psychological effects as long as mom and baby are both willing.

http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;115/2/496

maggieb

09-26-2005, 06:37 PM

Thanks, Alicia and Marisa! The things that we'll do for these little ones! :D

Kiley

09-26-2005, 06:45 PM

Princess Crappy - DS does that too; usually because he has to burp.

gizzyntaz

09-26-2005, 07:04 PM

maggie I probably should go *back* on that diet to lose a few pounds. I've gotten used to wheat free substitutes and have been slowly adding weight back on!

When I did that diet I used salt & pepper and olive oil. We would cook a big turkey and then I would just have leftovers (because I know you can't have very much time to be cooking special foods for yourself!) I ate sweet potatoes and regular potatoes. I would make roasted red potatoes with rosemary. The potatoes would help fill me up because I am not a rice fan. There's also "natural" potato chips. I have a good oven fries recipe if you'd like it.

I *LOVE* food, so I found it depressing. Probably because I was already feeling deprived before I started.

Being wheat-free sucks. I haven't done enough research on it because I keep hoping DS outgrows it. Wheat is in everything. We like to eat out and it's really hard... Alan has had symptoms off and on ever since I went wheat-free which leads me to believe that wheat is "sneaking" into my diet (probably when I eat out) or there is something else in my diet that he reacts to.

Our pediatrician is not very informed about allergies/intolerances. We got really good advice/information when we finally took Alan to a GI specialist. If your insurance will cover it I recommend trying to find one. Do you live in the DC area? I seem to recall that maybe you do... If so, I'll recommend the specialist we go to - she has an office in Rockville.

We will be taking Alan to an allergy doctor when he is one. He seems to be growing more and more sensitive to wheat, so that's what the GI doc suspects - rather than just an intolerance.

- Alison :)

moderngal

09-26-2005, 07:06 PM

Marisa~ Thanks. :)
I have tried the "well the AAP now recommends..." and that works with my family. But some of the women I work with still don't buy it. They think that because they worked as early intervention therapists for so many years, they know best and blah blah blah. for now I just say things like "well, I'm just not ready" or something and then try to concentrate on my paperwork to deflect their comments. I just am sick of biting my tongue. I really would like to tell them where to stick it. Ugh.
I get enough grief for leaving my patients to go pump, I so don't need this crap now, too.

shellbell516

09-26-2005, 07:19 PM

PrincessCrappy My 5 week old DD does this same exact thing. I contribute it to being overly tired and ready to go to sleep because usually she'll fall right out after reattaching. She only does this near the end of her feeding session.

maggieb

09-26-2005, 08:43 PM

Alison: I would love that oven fries recipe. I love food too, especially cheese, so being dairy-free has been hard. I anticipate that this diet is going to suck in a big way. I took Helena to a GI specialist in VA when she was about 9 mos old for her reflux, but it didn't go much further since she outgrew it at about 10 mos and doesn't have any allergies/intolerances now. I would love to know about your specialist. Thank goodness we just switched insurances and we don't need referrals anymore. I am in DC. ROckville isn't too far for us. I hope Alan outgrows this soon. It's so hard on us, I can't imagine how hard it is on the little ones. Thanks for all fo your support.

kindermom

09-27-2005, 06:47 AM

Daniel's Kitty - FWIW - My DD is just about 6 weeks. We are fortunate that she has been a great nurser from the get go (especially because she was so small at birth). As of last week, she was gaining an average of 1.5 ounces a day (compared to .5 to 1 ounce expected gain). She will empty one side in 10 minutes. At the same time she takes 3-4 ounces of EBM when bottle feed.

marchfamily

09-27-2005, 07:21 AM

Help...I'm at my wits end....

DD is 8.5 months old. I am 7.5 weeks pg. My supply has been terrible the last 2 months. Pumping yields much less than it used to. My DD has taken to biting me during nursing (she has 2 bottom teeth - and I don't see other breaking the gums). She seems very dissatisfied while nursing and a minute into it will bite me. I've tried ending the nursing session, "no bite", etc. Nothing seems to work. Last night she bit me right away. I unlatched her, told her "no bite" and pulled away. She instantly started the "oh my god, I'm so hungry" guppy mouth - and I resumed nursing. She nursed nicely for approx 30 seconds and bit me again.

I'd like to be able to nurse until one year. We recently started supplementing because of my supply issue. If the biting continues and my supply doesn't rebound....I think I'll have to stop nursing. Any thoughts or suggestions?

LeslieR

09-27-2005, 07:35 AM

PrincessCrappy, Luke does that, too. It's very frustrating. I've found that it's usually because he needs to burp OR he's overtired. HTH!

NYN

09-27-2005, 08:01 AM

I just realized that I eat deli turkey meat almost every day - could that be causing trouble?
weird that you mentioned this b/c my dd kept on spitting up and breaking into a rash all over her face and shoulders and i realized it would only happen on the days that i ate turkey deli meat. i stopped eating cold cuts all together and one day i gave her some milk from my frozen stash and it happened again. i had been keeping a food diary b/c of the rash and i saw that i had eaten turkey deli meat that day also. i am 99.9% sure that was the culprit as it is the only thing i have cut from my diet and the rash never came back and she no longer spits up the way she used to.

on advice: my dd is only 9 weeks and i have been surprised to hear the "you're still breast feeding?" comments. i also hear a lot of the teething comments but in a more offensive way, as in "i think when they have teeth it's time to stop." i really do find it offensive but most of the time i am so tired i don't even have time to respond in any real way. the other day my cousin asked me if i was going to be one of those people who breast fed after the kid started walking and i told her i promised i'd stop before DD went to kindergarten. :)

kindermom

09-27-2005, 08:33 AM

PricessCrappy - My DD does the same thing towards the end of at least half of her feedings (she only feeds on one side most of the time). I find that if she is thrashing and I switch sides, she will nurse for a minute or so and then fall asleep.

Maggie - Thank you for the information on thrashing. I was wondering why my DD thrashed.

the other day my cousin asked me if i was going to be one of those people who breast fed after the kid started walking and i told her i promised i'd stop before DD went to kindergarten. :)That is too funny.

lady1297

09-27-2005, 09:04 AM

[QUOTE]on advice: my dd is only 9 weeks and i have been surprised to hear the "you're still breast feeding?" comments. i also hear a lot of the teething comments but in a more offensive way, as in "i think when they have teeth it's time to stop." i really do find it offensive but most of the time i am so tired i don't even have time to respond in any real way. the other day my cousin asked me if i was going to be one of those people who breast fed after the kid started walking and i told her i promised i'd stop before DD went to kindergarten.QUOTE]

OMG!! I was one of those people who said, once teeth come in, I'm done...Now I'm 13 months into it and have no sign of stopping!! And we've got 6 teeth. I think no one wants to ask me how long I'm going to do it. Although DH is now saying as long as Edward doesn't act like that kid on ER the other night ("Mommy, I'm hungry NOW") I can keep going with his full support!! Since I highly doubt he'll do that (he's a comfort nurser now), I'm not worrying. And my comback when people act miffy is the Doctor is encouraging me, so I don't see the harm just yet. :) AAP is too foreign around here to use, so I just state the doctor. I have given up most NIP and at my mom's house though since it's too hard to keep him focused, so I think that cuts down on the comments and stares. But I do it if I need too...

cc8

09-27-2005, 09:13 AM

Did a search on this thread. I think I may have a plugged duct on my left side. Dividing the breast into four "quadrants", the lower left quadrant is hard as a rock and KILLS (been like that since last night). I pumped a lot from that side this AM but the hardness/pain are still there.

Other than nursing on that side/pumping and applying a warm compress, is there anything else I should be doing? I don't want this to turn into mastitis or something worse! I am going to call the doc at 9am.

adore_one

09-27-2005, 10:22 AM

cc8 - I had a plugged duct like that and I actually applied a TON of pressure while I was pumping and saw many more streams of milk - so I kept doing that until the milk stopped and that helped a ton. I told the LC that I did that and she said - perfect. Also said the warm compress can help as well.

jeggink

09-27-2005, 10:26 AM

cc8 I just also had a plugged duct. I just nursed, and nursed as much as possible, even when empty. Nursing will be more effective than the pump. I also used heat in the form of a rice sock heated up and massaged the area A LOT, then BF. I was sooo sore and had a nice red area on my BB where it was plugged. Finally when it went away I felt a sharp stinging sensation in my nipple while DS was BF'ing and the soreness went away over a day or two.

If it doesn't go away soon, definately see a dr. I hapened to have my 1-yr OB visit the day after the plugged duct was gone and he saw the red spot and said that if it got worse to call him back as I may need antibiotics.

BTW, I think wearing an underwire bra for one day is what did it for me :(.

Marisa

09-27-2005, 10:53 AM

lady - I'm willing to bet that NO five-year-old acts like that kid on ER the other night. How unrealistic -- if a child that old was still nursing at all, it'd probably be a very sporadic "comfort" kind of thing, maybe a bedtime thing... CERTAINLY not a "OMG I'm STARVING" kind of thing. Seriously, with all due respect to extended nursers, that kid needed a sandwich. :)

march -- you're in a tricky situation right now, since it's the hormones affecting your supply. There's really not too much you can do about increasing it, since your body is not going to cooperate ultimately. What you can try to do is give a little formula before nursing, so that she's not super-hungry when she goes to nurse. If the biting is related to her frustration at your low supply, this might help satisfy her a little, and then she will settle in to nurse for the remainder of her feeding.

NYN - I'm not surprised you're hearing those comments already around here. You'd think in the NY area you'd have more 'enlightened' people around, but I'm really in the minority in my area (10 mi from Manhattan)... Most of the moms at Gymboree had weaned already when our babies were only 4-6 mos. old, and I heard many times that they BF for 3-6 weeks "for the immunities" then stopped. As if the immunities stop after 3-6 weeks!

cc8 - you already got some good advice :), but I just wanted to chime in that Motrin (ibuprofen) can be helpful if you are in a lot of pain. It's safe to take while BFing.

Sarah

09-27-2005, 11:13 AM

That's interesting. What makes you think that?"
"I'm parenting the way that feels right to me."
"I respect your opinion and value your advice, but I have thought this out carefully and done a lot of research, and my mind is made up. I will be happy to respect your opinion and listen to what you have to say, but you have to respect my decision--and it is MY decision."
"As the mother of this baby, and because of all I've learned about the importance of breastfeeding, in my heart of hearts this is what I want - and need - to do for my child right now. If you love us both, you need to support me in this decision."
"You know how the medical community is always changing their recommendations. Well, this is what they recommend now--this is the best I have to go on, and I feel good about breastfeeding."
"We're working on weaning now." [Once solids are introduced, you're technically in the process of weaningthough it may take a few years.]
"This is what works for our family. Unless it becomes a problem, we're not going to change things." [Case closed- -save the arguments for someone who is truly interested in listening to them.]
"Why would I want to replace nursing with something that costs money and is nutritionally and immunologically inferior?" [This one is not exactly tactful, so consider who you're talking to before you use it.]
Responses to your parents:
"Now that I've become a mother, I have a new appreciation for what you went through for me, and I'm so thankful to be able to come to you for advice. It especially helps to know that you're going to support me in my decision to breastfeed, because that means so much to me."
"It's not that I resent you for not breastfeeding me - I don't. You made the decision that was right for you and your baby (me). I am making the decision that is right for us."
The "sandwich" technique sometimes works:
Say something complimentary first: "I'm so glad you are here to be with my children; Having a loving grandma like you is so important; You are such a wonderful grandma, just like I knew you would be."
Then make the point you are trying to make: "It really upsets me when you criticize my choice and my pediatrician's recommendation to breastfeed to the degree that I feel I might start to avoid visiting with you."
Then say something nice again: "That would make me sad because I know you love the children and I want them to have you in their life because you are so special."

hth, moderngal. from kellymom.com.
there's also always my fav comeback: "stfu!"

missy329

09-27-2005, 01:10 PM

Hello Everyone,

I need some advice please. When I had my DD (she's 17 months old now) I really wanted to BF. I tried for 3 weeks and I never had any milk. Well, I would pump and get about 2 tsps of milk. That was with about 20 minutes of pumping on each side. I would usually let my DD nurse, then pump. She had to go on formula because she was losing so much weight- presumably because of my low supply. I continued to pump and there were times I would not even get a tsp of milk. I talked to a LC and tried everything she said, cluster feedings and pumpings, ugh I can't remember all the other things now.
Anyway, that's my background. After about 3 weeks I just gave up- after a lot of crying and telling myself that I was going to be a horrible mother. Oh, by the way my mother was never able to produce milk either.
So, my question is this. I am now pg again. Yesterday was my first ob appt and he asked if I planned to BF. I have been thinking a lot about this. Did I do something wrong last time? Is there any hope of BF this baby? Should I just go straight to formula? I know everyone here is very pro BF and I am also but I just don't want to set myself up for the saddness that I felt last time.
OK, opinions and advice please. Thank you all so much!

lorbo

09-27-2005, 01:19 PM

if you really want to pump...you could try renting a hospital grade pump and see if that helps your supply...i had to rent, because DS was almost 8 weeks early, due to rh disease. i got the pump, maybe 2 days after he was born and i never ever realized i could produce soooo much colostrum with that pump-the nurses were in awe. that said, it helped me build and maintain my supply so that when DS did start nursing 3 1/2 weeks after birth, i was well on my way to a great stash of milk-does that help?

ETA-formula feeding doesn't make a bad mom! if you want to try again, and make the attempt and if it doesn't work out, you've done what you could!

missy329

09-27-2005, 01:38 PM

Lorbo- Thank you so much for your reply. I actually did rent a hospital grade pump last time. I know that I am not a bad mom- I came to terms with all that. It's just that we all know that breast milk is so much better for our babies and I just wanted to be able to give my daughter the best possible start in life. I just assumed it would work. Again thank you for your suggestions.

Cr8nme

09-27-2005, 02:08 PM

I too have cut out dairy only since yesterday though. I think that is what was making her throw up. Yesterday she didn't throw up at all. If I still notice it I guess wheat is next right?

Sandie78

09-27-2005, 03:13 PM

New mommy here with a question. How do I know when a breast is empty?

mollyeilis

09-27-2005, 03:57 PM

Interesting question. I'm no expert, but the breast is an amazing thing that continues to make milk. It's not a "bag" of sorts that can really empty fully, but a constantly working mechanism. :) I've been continually surprised at my guy, who will nurse and nurse and nurse, and I'll think "OK, my boob LOOKS empty, it's sad and deflated, he's been nursing for ages, it MUST be empty", and then suddenly his sucking will pick up, and I'll have a letdown of milk. It's just amazing what breasts can do. :D

**********
"I too have cut out dairy only since yesterday though"

FWIW, as a several-time-wannabe-vegan, dairy takes weeks to leave the system. So noticing a change one day after you giving it up isn't really likely to be b/c of the dairy reduction...

Man I wish dairy left the system that fast! :)

Cr8nme

09-27-2005, 04:50 PM

I see... that may explain why she threw up in the middle of the night several times :rolleyes: I guess I will just have to see how it goes

Marisa

09-27-2005, 05:28 PM

Sandie -- as Molly said, your breasts are actually constantly making milk. So you're never truly 'empty'. I think what you really want to know is, when is a feeding 'over'? Well... in the first 4-6 weeks, it seems like it's never over! :) Between the frequent growth spurts (big ones at 3 and 6 weeks) and the fact that newborns instinctively want to suck to build up your milk supply, it seems like some days are just one big long feeding... nurse, burp, switch, repeat. :) Anyway, you can be fairly sure that after about 10-15 minutes of nursing, baby has reached the fattier hindmilk and gotten at least one good letdown, so if you need to de-latch for some reason, he's gotten an acceptable amount.

Lisa -- I'm so sorry that you had so much trouble last time around. It can be so hard, especially if you're the first one in your family to BF, there's not the benefit of a role model, KWIM? Just a few things come to mind --

- talk to a IBCLC, before your baby is born. Talk to more than one if your insurance will cover it, or if the hospital where you'll deliver has one on staff. ;) You can find a *certified* lactation consultant through this directory:
http://www.iblce.org/US%20registry.htm

- There must be a reason for your problem. Women just don't have too little milk for no reason. Maybe it's a condition with your breasts, where there isn't enough glandular tissue (you can see hypoplasic breasts on this page to see if your breasts look similar: http://www.007b.com/breast_size_breastfeeding.php) Maybe it was a hormonal issue or retained placenta... there are a lot of possibilities. Talking to a professional may help you sort that out and prepare you to face it again this time around.

- Pumping is not going to give you a real picture of how much milk you're making. Many women don't ever respond well to a pump (even a hospital grade) but go on to nurse their babies just fine. My LLL Leader nursed her twins but never pumped more than half an oz (she says).

- Speaking of LLL, try to find the group in your area and talk to the Leader. She may have counseled women in your situation before and can possibly point you toward the right professionals to speak to as well. Find your group here: http://www.llli.org/WebUS.html
If nothing else, LLL can just be a great way to meet other nursing mommies to socialize with as well as bounce ideas off of. :)

That's it for now. I can sympathize with you, absolutely. My own DS did not gain any weight at all between the day he left the hospital and his two-week visit, in fact he didn't start gaining well until after he was 3 weeks old. Even though my own mom is an IBCLC, she sent me to another IBCLC who helped us get on track with longer feedings and pretty much saved us from supplementing. But I remember how scary it was to weigh him and see no change. I don't blame you for the choices you had to make, not a bit. :(

Sandie78

09-27-2005, 06:30 PM

lady1297

09-27-2005, 07:05 PM

lady1297

09-27-2005, 07:10 PM

Lisa, I second what Marisa said. I think it's worth looking into BF again. A IBCLC will be able to give you more info than we can, I'm sure. Keep us posted and best of luck!!

lady1297

09-27-2005, 07:13 PM

I have a hard time getting my baby to stay awake for the whole 10-15 minutes per breast. He just really wants to fall asleep. I try talking to him, tickling his feet, playing with his ear, etc. and he just really likes to sleep. But he seems to be pooping and peeing ok, so I guess he's doing all right...

As long as his diaper count is high enough, you're doing fine. :)

Have you tried a wet, cool washcloth to the back of the neck? Or baby pull ups? Those helped DS. Also, diaper changes and burps helped...oh man are the memories pouring back of late night feedings!!!

newyorkgirl

09-27-2005, 07:59 PM

DS and I are coming down from a multitude of problems - milk blisters, a case of thrush, and plugged ducts (which led to a 24-hr bout of mastitis and is still semi-plugged). I think we're getting better, but my question is this:

We're using gentian violet to treat the thrush and I've already been on www.kellymom.com to find all the ways to keep the purple stains off our clothes and ourselves. I don't care about the staining inside DS's mouth, but he has a rim of purple just on the inside of his lips. I don't think I should be using rubbing alcohol on his lips (or should I?), so is there anything else I can use to remove the purple?

(This is purely cosmetic. If there's no answer, that's okay. It's just that the grandparents are coming this weekend and I don't know that they want to take pictures with Mr. Purple Lips.)

Marisa

09-27-2005, 08:45 PM

Erika -- I've looked through a couple of books here and haven't seen anything helpful as far as removing/preventing the purple lips. In fact, a few of them seem to be implying that the purple lips are what you want, so you know that the entire area is getting treated...

I don't think rubbing alcohol is a good idea, no. :)

Sorry -- I'll let you know if I find out anything else. If nothing else, you can tell everyone that Grandma and Grandpa were sneaking him purple popsicles. :)

lady1297

09-28-2005, 05:10 AM

Erika:
They'll take pics anyway cause their grandparents! But I do understand the concern and have no answers for you. But I wanted to say I LOVE your new avatar!!!

newyorkgirl

09-28-2005, 08:03 AM

Thanks, Marisa, I figured as much. The grandparents will just have to live with it. ;)

And thanks, lady1297, for the compliment. :)

LeslieR

09-28-2005, 12:02 PM

adore_one

09-28-2005, 12:05 PM

Leslie - it is 20 points more. I am thinking of doing WW too...

Marisa

09-28-2005, 12:14 PM

Leslie -- I looked into it too, I was doing the older points system and it's 10 extra points per day (my range was something like 20-23 points per day -- it's been a while, I forget! :) -- so I would've been able to have 30-33 points per day while BFing.
(I wound up not doing it b/c I dropped 2 sizes at about a year postpartum, when Joey started walking. Go figure!)

Erika, I wasn't feeling very certain about the GV stuff so I emailed my mom after I posted, and here's what she had to say:

I'm just looking at the Hale book on Gentian violet, and I'm wondering if the baby's purple mouth could be minimized by what Dr. Hale suggests: gentian violet can be very irritating to the oral membranes in children, and he recommends diluting to 1/4-1/2 strenth with distilled water, dipping a swab in the solution, and having the baby suck on the swab. To my thinking, this would result in the solution staying inside the mouth, where it's needed, and with little or no staining of the lips. Using the swab method, the mom can also paint the g.v. directly on the affected areas.
I saw one recommendation for alcohol swabs to remove the stains- although this seems harsh, I guess a quick swipe over the lips couldn't hurt, and we do use it on the umbilical cord, so the absorption of a little alcohol won't be an issue. Another suggestion is Huggies baby wipes.

She also said that deli meats could potentially be irritating for baby, not because of the meat itself but because of the preservatives and fillers used, esp. in the processed meats (store-cooked turkey, etc., wouldn't really have this problem). She mentioned cornstarch as being one common ingredient which can also cause an allergic reaction. So I guess if you have a sensitive baby it's worthwhile to read the labels whenever possible...

I <3 having such a clever mom. :)

newyorkgirl

09-28-2005, 01:22 PM

Thanks, Marisa - I will try diluting the GV solution. And I went out and got the Huggies wipes today (since I normally use Pampers).

jrdhbunny

09-30-2005, 10:18 AM

To all of you in the NYC area- I just discovered that there is a BF boutique called Upper Breast Side (http://www.upperbreastside.com) (cute, huh?). The hours of operation are not great, for example they don't open until later, they close at 5 p.m., and they're closed on the weekends, but it looks like they have tons of stuff, plus a very supportive environment. They also say that they can answer pretty much any question you have about anything they sell. You can even test the products for a small fee. I can't wait until I'm working in the city one day so I can go!

AttyGrl74

09-30-2005, 10:27 AM

Anyone do Weight Watchers while bf'ing? I have an online subscription that I have been paying for over the past year and not using.:rolleyes: I'm considering giving it another go and I just did a search on their site to see how many more points you need if you are bf'ing, but found something instead that said you cannot do the online program while bf'ing. I just want to know how many more points you need. Anyone know? TIA!

I lost 45 lbs while BFing on weight watchers in the last 6 months - you give yourself 10 points per day extra or 2 points per nursing session.

You HAVE to make sure to get your water and fruits and veggies.

But I KNOW it works!

(I'd still be doing it if I wasn't pg with #2!)

celina

09-30-2005, 11:32 AM

New mom - Help needed

I have a one week old and my milk supply isn’t cutting it. In the last 12+ hours she’s only had one wet diaper. She’s always on the boob. I called the nursery at the hospital and they said to let her nurse for as long as she wanted as her constant nursing is encouraging my supply to increase.

I was thinking of pumping tonight in hopes of being able to measure how much milk she’s actually getting. That leads me to my question… How many ounces of breast mil does an infant need?

Thanks.

duke's flygirl

09-30-2005, 11:47 AM

Celina I'm sure that more experienced moms will tell you the same thing, but what you pump, isn't an indication of how much milk you are making. I didn't pump much with my DD, and when I did, I never got a lot, and my little girl was a chunky monkey! I don't know what to tell you about only one wet diaper though.

Just keep letting her nurse, and hopefully your BB's will get the hint and start producing more.

You are doing great! Keep going!

LeslieR

09-30-2005, 11:58 AM

Thanks for the replies about WW! I don't get why they won't let you do their online program if you are bf'ing. Very frustrating. That being said, I'm 9.5lbs below my pre-pg weight just from bf'ing alone! If that alone isn't a reason to bf, I don't know what is!:p I haven't been watching what I eat at all, so I can only imagine how much weight I would lose if I were doing WW as well. I have *a lot* of weight to lose that I should have lost before I got pregnant-I'm assuming at some point the weight loss just from bf'ing will slow down, no?

solongtogo

09-30-2005, 12:08 PM

celina your newborn will take anywhere from 2-3 ounces when she's this young...

Megande

09-30-2005, 12:09 PM

I need some support, commiseration, or something. DS is three months old. We are EBF, and I really love it. He refuses a bottle, and I haven't really pressed the issue much because I hate to pump and I'd rather him get it directly from the tap anyway :). But sometimes having to be around to feed him every 2 hours or so just makes me feel so limited and trapped. DH got awesome tickets to a college football game tommorow that I'd love to go to. But I can't because I can't be away from DS for that long. (Even if I left a bottle for him, he would put up a huge fight about taking it, and I don't have anyone to babysit him that I feel comfortable putting through all that. Both of our families are 7+ hours away).

There have just been lots of things lately that I'd love to do but I can't because of DS's feeding schedule. He is going to be EBF for the next 3 months, this is not a negotiable thing with me. Has anyone else felt like this? Any words of wisdom? I feel like I can't talk about it anywhere else because all of my friends either don't have kids or FF, and I don't want to say anything negative about BFing. The benefits so amazingly outweigh this issue. I'm just feeling a little sorry for myself since I'll be stuck home during the game tommorow.

happy1nuv

09-30-2005, 01:05 PM

megande ~ can you take the baby to the game with you? whenever i start feeling like that (i have it a lot easier since nic will take a bottle and his 2 gramas fight over who gets to watch him when i have somewhere to go) ... but, during the week when no ones around ... i just go out somewhere ... the mall, starbucks, library ... anywhere... its usually good for a pick-me-up ... plus nic's enough of a flirt at 4 mos, that i generally end up talking to someone, at least for a few min ...

now, here's a question. i am seriously jonesing for a pedicure. is it totally wrong to take nic w/ me and lt hi sit on my lap during? if he acts up, i can always just b/f...

and... 1 more... we're weaning of nipple shields. his latch is fine ... and the first 5 min are great. after that, he starts seriously tugging on my boob ...tug, grunt, pull off, dive back on. if i put the shield on, he sucks normally...take it off again...same thing happens. any ideas ? (oh, and this is only during the day/when he's awake ...if hes sleepy, he's fine w/o.... thanks

celina

09-30-2005, 01:55 PM

Lisa

Did C have any nipple confusion?

Breastfeeding is important to me, but at this point I don’t care how she gets the breast milk as long as she gets it, and with one wet diaper, she’s not getting enough through nursing. :(

Marisa

09-30-2005, 02:23 PM

Celina -- calling the LC at the hospital is a great first step. It's great that you have someone that you can turn to right now, you must be very concerned!

Would they be able to see you in person? A baby who nurses frequently but does not get much milk may have a physical problem (either with the latch or with their anatomy). One possibility is 'tongue-tie', where the frenulum - that little patch of skin under the tongue - is too long. (When baby has this problem, the tongue often looks almost heart-shaped at the tip instead of smooth.)

If it were an issue like that, it's easily diagnosed and corrected, but it might cause a problem for her whether you're BFing or bottle-feeding.

... and if you're concerned about nipple confusion, you can always try offering milk (or formula, if you need to supplement) in a medicine dropper or small flexible medicine cup.

I hope that you can get some good advice! If your LC can't see you (being that it's now almost the weekend), maybe someone from LLL can help.

SiValleySteph

09-30-2005, 02:25 PM

I was thinking of pumping tonight in hopes of being able to measure how much milk she’s actually getting.Thanks.

Does your local hospital do weigh-feed-weigh? Our hospital has a lactation center and it is free to go in and use their scale. You can do a weigh-feed-weigh where you weigh the baby in clean diaper & clothes and then feed the baby and then weigh again and you can see how much the baby took in a feeding. This can be soooo helpful when you are concerned about how much the baby is getting. I had a friend who rented a hospital scale from the same center for her home for peace of mind.

I don't know the exact amount per feeding your baby should get, but if your hospital has a center like this they will usually answer questions like this for free. I think the amount per feeding is really small at this point (1 week) - maybe only 1-2oz?

Good luck! I'll be thinking of you! It sounds like you are trying to do the best for your baby.

ellybelle

09-30-2005, 04:40 PM

Marisa Thanks for posting the AAP policy statement. I'm mailing it to my local Kaiser Hospital. There are SO many things that didn't happen at my supposedly "breastfeeding friendly" hospital (can you tell I'm still PO'd after nearly two years?)

SD601

09-30-2005, 06:53 PM

happy1nuv, I just weaned off the nipple shields, too. I found that my let down is too forceful, so DS will suck, grunt, and pull off the boob several times. I keep a rag handy and lean back to use gravity to help him. Congrats on getting off it! oh, and I'm debating about the pedicure thing, too, since I don't have anyone to watch him. I think I might try it next week, so I will let you know.

Megande, hugs. It's tough to be chained to the baby, but you are really doing a great thing for him! Can you help him space out his feedings, too? My DS is gaining weight like crazy and although I feed on demand, I try to feed him when he's hungry and a pacifier won't satisfy him. He used to be such a snacker, and now he eats consistently every 2.5-3 hours. I know he won't starve, since he's a chunk now. I dislike pumping, but I do it just for the few precious hours alone I can get with my husband. If you keep pressing it, he will take the bottle. By that age, you probably don't have to worry about him getting enough--when he's hungry, he will take it!

solongtogo

09-30-2005, 08:36 PM

C,

Court didn't have any nipple confusion at all...she took to a bottle right away. I introduced it to her in the 2nd week...I think they say to do in or by the 4th week. Has the diaper situation gotten any better? Also, have your pedi weigh her when she's 2 weeks old...she should have gained back to her birth weight

LexyLou

09-30-2005, 10:06 PM

Hi ladies-

Sorry if this has ben discussed before but since this thread is 37 pages long and I'm desperate for help I thought I would just re-ask.

My baby is 4 days old and my milk just came in today. She has a wonderful latch and strong suck. She has since the first time she latched.

While we were in the hospital she would easily nurse for 20 minutes each side with very little need for me to stimulate her.

Well, in 4 days she's lost 15 ounces and my Dr. is getting a little worried.

my worry now is that even though she still latches well and sucks strong she barely stays on for 10 minutes. I have to strip her to her diaper and continually play with her hand and her jaw line. I've even started to use a damp cloth on her back but she just doesn't seem to have a desire to stay on long.

She gets SO sleepy and I can't wake her to feed more for the life of me. At this point I'm over full and I'm dying to get her to gain weight. Also, I wake her every 2-3 hours to feed but it seems like she's not even rooting anymore or wanting the breast. I almost feel like I'm forcing her to it. Is it possible that 2-3 hours is too much for her and she's not hungry?

BTW, she does have a lot of wet and poopy diapers and the poopy ones are starting to be the yellowey color but are still mostly the brown-yellow color.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I really want her to gain back her weight so my ped doesn't make me get on formula.

Thanks,

Alexis

celina

09-30-2005, 10:06 PM

Well unfortunately we had to supplement with formula. She wasn’t getting enough from me (in a 24 hour period we only got 3 wet diapers from her). Two hours after her last nursing session, I decided to pump and see how much I could get. From both breasts, a whopping ounce. No wonder my poor little girl was so hungry. Also explains why she would sit on the boob for 3-4 hours at a time in the last couple of days.

Do I continue pumping even though milk isn’t coming out to encourage my milk supply to increase? I assume I do as it’s the same thing as letting her nurse for hours on end.

I am really sad we had to resort to formula. :(

Lisa, she has her first appointment on Monday.

Marisa, I am pretty sure it’s a mommy issue. Before my milk came in she was nursing 30 minutes (15 minutes on each side) every 3 hours and taking long naps in-between. Since Monday evening, when my milk came in, she has wanted to nurse every hour. Yesterday and today she has spent hours on end on the boob and never seems satisfied. She’s been getting very little sleep - so have I for that matter.

Marisa

09-30-2005, 10:41 PM

Celina, don't feel discouraged. The number one rule is always, "feed the baby". If formula helps her have the right number of wet diapers, then that's what you do for now. It buys you some time to get the kind of professional help you'll need.

Every three hours is probably on the low end for the number of feedings for a newborn. 8 to 12 in a 24 hour period is ideal, and if she's having trouble getting enough, every two hours might be better (this is what I had to do when Joey wasn't gaining at first). It sounds kind of like she's instinctively trying to get your supply up -- babies are really good at knowing when they need to do this, they also do it instinctively at the 3 week, 6 week, 3 month and 6 month growth spurts.

You can definitely continue to pump as well, if you feel up to it. Please don't beat yourself up, though, if you don't get very much. The fact is that many women do not respond to the pump, and don't get as much milk from pumping as their baby will get from nursing. It's just not a good way to judge your supply.

Alexis, congratulations! The wet/poopy diapers sound great to me, and I really think that that's what you need to be looking at. How much did she weigh at birth, and what is she now? Did you have IV fluids during labor (can lead to inflated birth weight)? Did you have a c-section (and painkillers during/after delivery)?

The fact that the diapers are changing color means that your milk is starting to do its job. A breastfed baby will typically be back to birthweight by the 2 week appointment, so at this point she shouldn't be losing any more, you should start to see her gaining again. Try to avoid supplements if at all possible until you get to that 2 week visit, as long as you're still seeing good diapers and she doesn't seem otherwise dehydrated. Continue what you're doing, get skin-to-skin whenever possible, see how it goes for the next 24 hours or so now that your milk is in.

LexyLou

09-30-2005, 10:46 PM

Thanks Marisa. I was on IV fluids during labor...she weighed 7lb 3 oz at birth on Monday and today she was only 6lb 4 oz. :(

What is the recommended amount of time per feeding? I'm lucky if I can keep her on one breast for 10-15 minutes and then I have to really coax her on to the next breast and usually can't get more than 7-9 minutes.

Is it common for a newborn to fall asleep while breastfeeding. She seems SOO tired lately. I think the milk is making her very sleepy.

Marisa

09-30-2005, 11:33 PM

Alexis, you're actually doing pretty well if you can get her to stay interested for 10 minutes or so. By that time, she's getting at the fattier "hindmilk" -- the first milk in a feeding is "foremilk" and it's more watery and thirst-quenching, but for bulking that baby up she needs the fatty stuff. :)

If you're not uncomfortable, try doing one full feeding on one side -- in other words, let her nurse for 10 min, burp, then back on the same side for as long as she'll go. That way you know she's getting every shot at that fatty milk. For the next feeding you can use the other side.

It's *very* common for newborns to be sleepy, sure. And to have their days and nights mixed up too. :) There's nothing wrong with falling asleep while nursing, it's really comforting for them to have a nice full belly.
The general sleepiness is something you just kind of have to deal with and help them through, during the first couple of weeks.... the three-week growth spurt is the first hump to get over (nursing all the time! -- but it's great for your milk supply!) -- and after that they really seem to wake up and start taking an interest in being awake a little longer. By the 6-week spurt you can actually start having fun with them, they become interactive. ;)

Megande

10-01-2005, 09:57 AM

happy1nuv- Thanks for your advice! We didn't want to take him to the game with us because very loud noises upset him (and the game will be *very* loud, and it is going to be around 95 degrees today. But I did find a woman from my LLL to have coffee with, so at least I am getting out of the house! I think it would be fine to take nic with you to get a pedicure unless it is one of those places where the fumes are overwhelming. He would probably think it was exciting!

SD601 - Thanks for your support! I don't worry about DS starving either (he is 17 lbs at 3 months!!!), but he goes for between 9 and 11 hours at night without eating, which is wonderful, but it means that he needs to eat more often during the day. He will eventually take a bottle, but it is accompanied by about an hour of screaming, and I don't like putting him through that, and I don't have any family nearby, so I don't have anyone I feel comfortable leaving him with. I think that I am going to join the MOMS club in my area, so hopefully I will be able to get out more often and stop feeling so trapped at home!

LexyLou

10-01-2005, 12:00 PM

Marisa-You are a god send! Thank you so much for the help. I fell MUCH better now. I'm going to try to just nurse on one side for one full feeding if I can handle it. I knew they got hard but wowzers!

Thanks again for the help. I sure hope we get her weight back up for her Monday weigh in. :D

Sarah

10-01-2005, 12:07 PM

Lexylou- I had a whole post typed, but Marisa said it all. My DD was sleepy and early (was yours early?) and we had all the same difficulties. I know it's miserable, but feed ever 2 hours during the day, minimum every 3 at night. Do whatever you can for her to eat- tickle her head, put a cool washcloth on her, blow on her tummy, etc. She'll get it. I promise it will resolve in a few weeks. Just concentrate on resting in between feedings, staying hydrated, and watch your latch. If her poops are changing color and she's peeing plenty, everything is most likely just fine.

Celina, don't beat yourself up. Your DD needed to eat and sometimes by supplementing a little (with EMB or ABM) you can perk the kiddo up enough to have the energy to keep working to nurse.

Yes, keep pumping for ten minutes after you stop getting milk to up production. Don't stress about how much you pump, it means very little. An ounce isn't bad, at her age.

Try to supplement with an SNS or finger feeding, not a bottle. There are two worrisome things about supplementing- latch, and supply. You want to make sure that the baby doesn't get used to a bottle, and forget how to nurse properly, causing you pain and difficulties. You also want to make sure that you aren't making the supply issues worse by feeding her formula.

Hugs, mama. It can be so hard. You are doing wonderfully with a tough situation.

Sarah

10-01-2005, 12:09 PM

moderngal

10-01-2005, 12:35 PM

I have some stupid questions:

1. my nipples are cracked and when I pumped on Friday at work, a little blood got into the milk. I figured that since BM is made from the blood, this wasn't a big deal, but just would like conformation on that if anyone knows.

2. During pregnancy, I got 2 warts on my hands. One went away on its own, but the other is still there. Is a topical ointment for that ok? Even if it has Salicylic Acid in it?

Also- someone here recommended "The No-Cry Sleep Solution" (Sarah maybe?). Anyway- we're trying some of the things in it and so far we're having a little bit of luck. Thanks!!

BeachBum

10-01-2005, 12:40 PM

1. my nipples are cracked and when I pumped on Friday at work, a little blood got into the milk. I figured that since BM is made from the blood, this wasn't a big deal, but just would like conformation on that if anyone knows.

The Le Leche League books says its fine.

Marisa

10-01-2005, 02:40 PM

mg - Dr. Hale dicusses an alternative to salicylic acid (which may cause diarrhea in BFed infants) on his message boards:

The Wartner wart remover is just a cryotherapy wart remover containing dimethyl ether and propane, neither of which are absorbed. It just freezes the wart somewhat like liquid nitrogen.

It should be fine for a breastfeeding mother.

The blood thing is icky, I know, but as BeachBum said, not a problem. :)

I saw the toddler version of the NCSS in the bookstore this week! Haven't even looked at it though. I am too lazy to even worry about whether we have sleep issues. :)

NYN

10-01-2005, 06:53 PM

hey ladies...is it possible for dd to be going through a growth spurt at 10 weeks? she has been feeding non-stop for the past two days but doesn't seem to have a tummy ache or gas (she tends to ask to nurse non-stop when she isn't feeling well).

LexyLou

10-01-2005, 06:54 PM

Lexy- If she won't stay on one side for a full feeding, and just falls asleep after a few minutes, try burping her, annoying her so more, and then trying again. If she doesn't like that, try switching her to the second breast, but then putting her back on the first, to get hindmilk. Switch as many times as you can, to keep her awake. That's all that worked with my DDs.

Thanks Sarah. I try everything. I burp her...use a cool cloth on her back, play with her feet etc...but when she's out, she's out.

My other concern is that lately she shows no signs of hunger. No rooting, no putting her hands in her mouth, etc. In fact these past two days she's been SO mellow. Even her sponge bath barely made her antsy.

Am I forcing her to eat when she isn't hungry? Shouldn't she be showing me signs of hunger? Also, I've had to wake her for every feed. She hasn't woken up on her own in two days. I've even waited 3 1/2 hours and I still have to wake her. I wonder how long she would sleep on her own?

Sorry for the 8 million questions. I'm such a rookie.

mollyeilis

10-01-2005, 07:24 PM

Did I read it right that she's only 5 days old? Well of course you're a rookie! You as a mother are also only 5 days old! :)

Heck, at 5 days I'd only had my milk in for a day, if that. So you're doing much better than we were...

If my fuzzy memory serves, around a week "out" Eamon got sleepy. Sleepy sleepy sleepy. And then he woke up from his sleepiness, and he had grown. By 2 weeks he'd already grown 2 inches (I'm sure a little of that was just stretching out) and put on some weight. So even though I wasn't feeding him anywhere near what I've since fed him in a day, the milk he was getting SURE did have some "punch" to it! :D

I wouldn't worry too much, it's likely just a form of normal.

Does she sleep in a crib? If she sleeps somewhere where you have full access, perhaps when you start having the urge to feed her (in other words, you want to relieve yourself of some milk LOL), you could lay down next to her, shirt and bra off? I found that Eamon would quite often start rooting when he could smell the milk, even if not fully awake.

Of course, I wasn't even moving around at all by that point (not totally true, but basically it is), and all I did was sleep with him and feed him and sleep more and feed him more...Oh and read. Got SO much reading done in those early months! :p

Have fun with your new baby!!!

LILRTL

10-01-2005, 07:58 PM

Help. That's all I can say. We started supplementing DS because I thought I was going back to work. Thank Heavens, I am able to be a SAHM. So I am trying to get back to full-time BFing. But we're having issues. At 5:30, I bfed him...at 7:30, I bfed him...and he kept screaming...after 35 minutes of feeding, he sucked 3 ounces out of a bottle (formula, not bm). At 9:15, I fed him for another 35 minutes. Now, he has sucked down 2 oz. and is working on his second 2 oz. Is he not getting anything from me? When he starts screaming at the breast, I burp him, try switching, think he's finished and lay him on my lap, etc. I am still able to squeeze milk out (easily) when he is screaming... I'm just not sure what to do. I hate to keep giving him formula, but when he screams, he SCREAMS. There's no getting him to latch back on. And I don't understand why he would nurse for so. long. and not get anything! I'm drinking my water, eating my oatmeal, etc. I know it's helping because I am getting engorged again when he goes 3-4 hours. Any help?? :confused:

moderngal

10-01-2005, 08:04 PM

Sarah

10-02-2005, 07:42 AM

Alexis~ The one nice thing I've found about BF'ing is that you can't overdo it. Ella will let you know when she doesn't want milk- she'll push away or something. She'll only take the breast when she wants it- sometimes a full feeding or maybe just a snack.
I always try to anticipate the hunger cues before they come- that way baby stays calmer and is more efficient eating.

Yup, ITA with all of that. My first DD was like yours, Lexy, and wouldn't wake to eat. She was less than five pounds when we got her home, and if I didn't set an alarm for every 2-3 hours, she would go about 5-6 hours without eating. They just don't have hunger cues sometimes.

happy1nuv

10-02-2005, 10:28 AM

nic has learned a new trick. sometimes on the boob he grunts/groans/pulls ... towards the end of a feeding. apparently he still wants to suck, just doesn't want the milk ... he discovered that if he sucks the SIDE of my boob, he can continue to suck w/o the bother of more milk and will happily do so ... for hours i think. side lying nursing put me to sleep...when i woke he was half-sucking the side of my boob/half sleeping ... and has tried to end every nursing session like that since...

celina

10-02-2005, 11:36 AM

Marisa

What does one do about this.....

And to have their days and nights mixed up too.

She was up for most of the night (10 to 8 this morning). Around 12 she fully vomited. I am not sure if last night’s lack of sleep is due to having an upset tummy or the fact that she doesn’t sleep as well at night. I noticed during the day she’ll sleep for 4 hours, eat, sleep for 4 hours, and so on. But at night it’s different. She spends more time with her eyes wide open and wants to nurse more frequently. I would love to switch it around so that she does her 4 hour naps at night and is more awake during the day. Is it possible or do I live by her schedule?

LexyLou

10-02-2005, 12:01 PM

Yup, ITA with all of that. My first DD was like yours, Lexy, and wouldn't wake to eat. She was less than five pounds when we got her home, and if I didn't set an alarm for every 2-3 hours, she would go about 5-6 hours without eating. They just don't have hunger cues sometimes.

Thanks guys. I have been having to set my alarm also. I was just worried that her sleeping so much and not wanting to eat could signal a greater problem but she has a great active alert state and tracks our fingers and voices and noises etc...so I know she's strong and healthy. I just worry...

Sarah, when you say you set the alarm for 2-3 hours when do you set it from?

If I start a feed at 10 pm it could be 11 pm before I've gotten her to take 10 min on one side and 3-5 on the other. Do I try to feed her again at midnight or 1-2 am? I know the books say from the start of feed but I know I wouldn't even have a chance of getting her to latch with that little amount of time in between.

sdauer21

10-02-2005, 12:05 PM

I'm hoping someone can help!! :( We've been ebf since DD was born and she's almost 10 weeks. For the last few days, she seems to be totally constipated. She had one poop on Friday, and hasn't pooped since. She is still having pretty full wet diapers, but now seems to be very uncomfortable. What can I do to help unclog her?? Is it something I'm eating thats plugging her up? I thought bf babies didn't usually get constipated. Is she just growing out of her frequent pooping phase?

Thanks for any help!!

Marisa

10-02-2005, 12:27 PM

Lora -- sounds like maybe he's doing a little cluster-feeding? It's something that's common among BF babies in the first 3-4 months after birth, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with your supply. I recall clearly night after night of just laying on the couch with the baby, watching tivo for hours, just getting up to switch, maybe from 7 till 11 PM. Finally he'd sink into a deeper sleep for a few hours, and so would I! -- but during the day he'd be fairly normal.

http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/fussy-evening.html

That page may be helpful/reassuring... As for switching him back to EBF -- just keep doing what you're doing... if you can get Mother's Milk Tea that has herbs that encourage supply, but if you're still getting engorged it sounds like you're already doing ok. It sounds like this is just a discouraging time to get through, but you can definitely do it while decreasing the amount of formula he's taking. :)

happy -- what a funny trick! When Joey was about your son's age, he discovered his thumb -- he never would take a pacifier. I wonder if Nic will figure out the thumb thing as well, if he likes to suck but without the milk. (FWIW, Joey gave up the thumb-sucking at around 11 mos. on his own.)

celina -- it's just a process, you'll remember that when you were pregnant she'd start some of her more serious rockin' and rollin' when you were just getting settled to relax for the night. The motion of moving around all day would lull her to sleep a lot of the time, but at night when it's quiet she'd wake and be active. It's kind of the same right now, but as she's exposed to the outside world she'll start to 'get' that the interesting stuff happens during the day. The best way to get her circadian clock adjusted is to just keep the house bright and airy during the day, try to get outside when the weather is nice, and keep it dim and still at bedtime/throughout the night. It's a slow adjustment, maybe over a couple of weeks, but it will happen. :)

Alexis -- when Joey wasn't gaining back his weight, I was setting my alarm for every two hours from the *start* of a feeding. So say, at 1 AM, 3 AM, 5 AM... luckily, working with a LC, I was able to solve our issues and we didn't have to do more than a few days of this before he started gaining very well.

Sonya -- If a baby is exclusively BF, it's likely that she's just growing out of the frequent pooping when she starts going days between poops. I think that Joey was about 4 months when he first did this -- it freaked me out just a little, but when he finally did go (after about 5 days) it was MASSIVE. We just kept putting diapers under him and switching them out when they were full, I think he filled three. :eek
There's nothing you can really do besides wait and see... and stockpile the wipeys... :)

Sarah

10-02-2005, 12:31 PM

Sdauer- She's not constipated unless when the poop does come, it's hard and dry. If when it comes, it's normal- wet/seedy/yellow or orange/etc, then she's fine. My older DD used to go a week or so between poops when she was tiny, and it was normal. After 6 weeks, anything goes, in terms of pooping frequency.

Lexy- Yeah, it's tough to know when to set it. If you feed her at 8, and she goes to bed, set the alarm for 11, then 2, then 5, IMO. If she won't take it, try again in an hour.

Seriuosly, this will get better. In a few weeks it will be a distant memory.

Celina- She's tiny, right, like less than 2 weeks old? Then just try to deal with the days/night confusion. It's normal and will straighten out in a week or so, IME. You can help by not letting her sleep in the dark/quiet during the day- try to leave her where she can hear the household sounds during the day, even if she's sleeping. Exposure to light for a few minutes every few hours helps, too (and helps Vit D levels) When my DD was confused, we brought her in the sun for ten minutes every hour or two, and then at night we made sure it was dark and relatively quiet after 8 pm (or whenever your target "sleepy" time is). She'll get over it. I doubt the vomiting is related.

Sarah

10-02-2005, 12:32 PM

We cross posted, Marisa. :D

Ew, three diapers? Lucy'd better not try that stunt!

sdauer21

10-02-2005, 01:12 PM

Thanks Marissa and Sarah!! Maybe we just never made it to that point with Tallia - I don't remember her going more then a day without pooping. I'm glad to know that its normal! Not looking forward to when she does finally pooh, though...3 diapers!!! YOWZA! :eek: :D

AndreaMMS

10-02-2005, 04:24 PM

:(

My baby is 9 days old today. I went from having no milk at all for the first 4 days to being engorged on day 5. Saw a lactation consultant on day 6 that took care of her latch and rented a hospital pump from her that helped the engorgement, but then immediately went back (day 7) to practically no milk at all. Seriously, I'll pump and pump and get nothing more than a few drips on one side, and even less on the other. They feel empty.

The LC has me using a nipple shield and sneaking a tube attached to a syringe into it filled with formula so that the baby sucks and stimulates my supply at the same time, but it doesn't seem to be working.

I am beside myself. She will suck for two hours at a time, every time, eating 2ounces of the formula through the shield, and then scream until we give her a bottle, where she'll really quickly eat another ounce.

I am so exhausted and frustrated...any advice would be GREATLY appreciated...

Thanks,

Andrea & Naomi

Marisa

10-02-2005, 05:27 PM

Hi Andrea! Congrats on your new baby!

Is the nipple shield part of your latch correction? Sometimes a shield will interfere with supply, though that's not the case as often these days (shields used to be much thicker).

Aside from that, what you're describing doesn't seem that far outside of normal to me, in fact it's pretty typical for a newborn to nurse and then want to nurse again a minute later! Think about it this way -- not only is breastmilk quickly and easily digested, but she's also just gone from eating every single second of the day, every time your heart beats, to eating only some of the time. Some babies take a little longer to adjust to that concept than others.

It sounds like she's taking a lot of formula -- even if she was exclusively FF at this age that would be a lot. Is she spitting it back up at all? Most babies *will* take a bottle and guzzle it down, but that has more to do with the fact that they like to suck, it's their instinct, and the milk flows much more quickly from the bottle.

Why did they have you supplementing, if I may ask? Because you don't feel like the milk is there? Because you were unable to pump? Some women just never get anything when they pump... it doesn't mean that they don't have milk. It also doesn't necessarily mean anything that you're not engorged... some women never feel it at all (and go on to nurse successfully), and you've said that you felt it when your milk first came in, which is a good sign.

The most accurate way to gauge how much your DD is taking is to do a weigh and feed, where you weigh her when she has an empty stomach (most places say an hour after her last feed) in a clean diaper. Then you nurse for 15-20 minutes, then weigh again immediately. A newborn scale will show you how many oz. she's taken in. If a weigh-and-feed shows that she's taking between 1-2 oz. in that time, then my opinion would be that you have a pretty normal newborn with a strong suck instinct. :)

mollyeilis

10-02-2005, 05:58 PM

Some women just never get anything when they pump... it doesn't mean that they don't have milk.

I'll second that! I couldn't even pump without wanting to cry from the pain for at least a month if not more. And yet baby ate and ate and ate (and ate) and got bigger, so even though little milk came out for the pump, it came out for him. Good luck!

******
This isn't directly on topic, but after days of trying to figure out where to ask the question, this is as good a place as any.

We delayed solids for a long time, and are still sort of using the list of foods to continue to delay given to us by our ND. Eamon is 16 months, and the amount of food he eats is increasing slowly, but it seems the more solids he eats, the more he nurses as well. :)

So his poops, which are the topic of my question LOL, have remained pretty much soft and runny breastmilk poops. Until this week. Oh, this week...what I wouldn't give to go back to last week's smelly and big but normal-to-us poops...

He's been quite surprised and disturbed by the new era of pooping...it's all more "formed" and more solid, I suppose, and I'm sure feels quite different coming out than what we'd all gotten used to.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how to make it easier for him? Whereas before he'd just start walking in circles then squat down and go, now he's crying and yelling and in distress, and we all hate it. Any ideas?

Also, is it normal for it to have changed in smell so heinously much? It's unbelievable, the change...

Thanks for any ideas and suggestions you might have! Oh, he gets lots of fresh fruit, water when he wants it, whole grain everything, etc etc etc, and of course plenty of breastmilk.

BeachBum

10-02-2005, 06:09 PM

How do you know how much EBM to give?

Henry will be 4 weeks on Tuesday, he was 9lb and 11oz at his last appt this past week. He is gaining and eating great at the boob. I've pumped some and have a couple of 1 or 2 oz bottles frozen. If I want to run out for a bit and leave DH with him, is there a way to know how much EBM to expect him to eat/ and or how much to defrost? thanks :)

AndreaMMS

10-02-2005, 06:52 PM

Marisa- Thank you so much for the congratulations and the thorough reply.

Quote: "Is the nipple shield part of your latch correction?"

Yes, the nipple shield is part of the latch correction.

Quote:"It sounds like she's taking a lot of formula -- even if she was exclusively FF at this age that would be a lot. Is she spitting it back up at all? "

I know, it does seem like she's eating a tremendous amout of formula, doesn't it??? But she's only spit up once or twice, and is happy as can be when she's full. Do you think I should be giving her less?

Quote: "Why did they have you supplementing, if I may ask? Because you don't feel like the milk is there? Because you were unable to pump? "

I started the supplimenting on the reccomendation of the hospital staff - she was pretty tiny at birth - 5 pounds, 7 ounces (full-term) and was losing weight fast. And when I had her at the breast she would suck and then scream like she was starving...

So you think I should ditch the formula alltogether? Just trust that I have more than I think I do?

Andrea

LexyLou

10-02-2005, 07:57 PM

So, I decided to consult with a lactation consultant today. She's super hippie and hysterical. She's a little more hard core than I am and even told me that I should not be stripping my DD or messing with her feet or hands, etc. to eat. That she will let me know when she wants to eat, etc..

But she did think she is a little jaundiced (as do I) which is why she never wakes up ever for feeds and has stopped rooting or showing signs of hunger. So she had me pump and for the next 12-18 hours at every 3 hour mark she wants me to feed it to her with the finger syringe system. I didn't even have to wake her up.

She thinks Ella is just exhausted and my forcing her to eat is only making her more tired and that if I can just get my milk in her that within 18 hours she will make a come back and let me know that she wants to be at the breast.

I'm not 100% sure I agree with all her methods but the lady is an expert and has gotten many babies to eat and I'm just a rookie mom so I figure it's worth a shot. No harm no foul, right?

Anyway, you ladies are SOOOOO awesome and I hope some day to have this down well enough to help out other mommies. Thank you again and I'll be back with more questions, I'm sure. :D

Alexis
(feeling much less of a bad mommy)

Marisa

10-02-2005, 09:25 PM

Alexis, it sounds like you're getting some good help! Your LC sounds a little like the lady I saw, who finally helped me get Joey to start gaining weight! Isn't it amazing what another perspective can do, to make everything seem so much more manageable? I hope that you continue to make progress with your DD, it's not uncommon for newborns to have a little jaundice (and therefore to be sleepy) but breastmilk is the *best* to get rid of it!

Andrea -- I'm not a professional and I've not met you in person, so I would never tell you to drop the supplements cold turkey, esp. since you started at the advice of professionals. However, I *would* recommend talking to a LC, preferably a certified one, and arranging for a weigh-and-feed sometime in the upcoming days. I really think that it's the only thing that will give you peace of mind that you are providing for your daughter. Your ped office may do this for you, or a LC should have a scale as well.

If you would like to cut back on the supplements, do it gradually -- maybe a half-oz. at a time. Don't stress about her "using you as a pacifier" -- she's just programmed to suck, and honestly it's the best possible thing for your milk supply to let her nurse as much as you can possibly stand it.

If you need help finding a certified LC, check here: http://www.iblce.org/US%20registry.htm or ask a LLL Leader... I'll be interested to hear what you find out once you can do the weigh-and-feed...

BeachBum -- at that age Joey was taking anywhere from 2-4 oz. when my DH would give him a bottle... if you have it frozen in 1-2 oz. increments it will actually thaw pretty quickly in a bowl of hot water, so I'd thaw one bottle and let DH thaw another if Henry is still hungry after that.
That way you cut down on waste if 2 oz is enough.

Kiley

10-02-2005, 10:23 PM

I have a question regarding milk supply. It seems that many women claim to have a decrease in their milk supply starting anywhere from 4-6 months and then they have to supplement or use their freezer stash. Why the decrease? What happens? It worries me that I'll have to do the same. How can you prevent it from happening?

Marisa

10-03-2005, 06:38 AM

Molly -- sorry I missed your poop question before (yeah, I'm real sorry. ;)...) Anyway, it sounds very familiar, we're *still* going through the same kinds of things since Joey eats a few real meals of solids now, but also nurses 3-4 times a day.
I don't know if there's anything more you can do to help him, unfortunately. Maybe it's one of the fruits that's bothering him/making him gassy? I know this is TMI about my husband, but apples always upset his stomach for some reason. Who knows.
The stink is pretty much here to stay, too, unfortunately. I'm just waiting anxiously for the time when it's not a semi-solid state, when I can just dump the little solid poos in the toilet intstead of having to stand there and rinse and smell it...

Kiley -- it's not so much that there's a decrease, as your supply tends to regulate itself around that time. Your body becomes more efficient and makes closer to the amount that the baby is actually taking, and maybe not as much 'extra'.
Women who have been pumping will note this as a decrease, because they've been counting on the 'extra' to build up their freezer stash... but if you are nursing your baby you will still have the right amount of milk for him. If you are at work and need to give bottles, you can try a few tricks to keep your supply up -- taking a galactogogue such as oatmeal (cereal, cookies, snack bars)... the herb fenugreek which is found in capsule form or in 'Mother's Milk Tea'... drink lots of water and eat enough protein... If possible, continue to pump for a couple of minutes beyond when the milk stops flowing, to tell your body that you need more -- and pump one side while nursing your baby on the other, if you can -- trick your body into thinking you're nursing twins! ;)

I wouldn't stress about it right now, though -- as with everything breastfeeding, some women experience this, some don't... I went back to work 3 days a week when Joey was 6 mos. and I was still leaking half the time, my supply didn't dip at all.

madmartian

10-03-2005, 08:10 AM

Hi, I'm new here and I need some advice.

I have a 5.5 mo old DD who has been exclusively breastfed from the start. I'd like continue breastfeeding at least until she's 9 mo old. DH and I booked a 4.5 cruise in November, when DD will be 7 mo old -- without DD. As much as I'll miss her, I'm looking forward to spending the time alone with DH. I have a huge freezer stash that she'll use while I'm gone, and I planned on pumping and dumping while on vacation.

Lately, I find myself questioning the decision to go. I feel guilty dumping all of that breastmilk. Is there anything I can do with it other than throw it out? I'm afraid of destroying my milk supply because I probably won't pump as much as she would consume. Am I ruining my chances of breastfeeding until 9 mo by going on this trip?

LeslieR

10-03-2005, 08:57 AM

This might be an odd question...

Every time Luke woke up to eat last night, my breasts were sooooo full-as if I hadn't fed him in hours. I always feed him on one side and then the other side at the next feeding. So, each time I woke up, one side felt like it was going to burst and the other side would be pretty full (more full than usual), too, but not quite as much as the other. This lasted on through the morning. Luke pretty much always sleeps 4-5 hours the first time he goes down and gets up every 3 hours after that. My breasts have never felt full like this during the night before. Am I just making more milk now than before???

BeachBum

10-03-2005, 09:33 AM

thanks!

cc8

10-03-2005, 09:34 AM

I saw a topic on this before but I can't find it - sorry if this is redundant!

EMB Freezer Stash
I want to start building a freezer stash of EBM. My questions are:
1. When should I start freezing and how should I do it?
2. In what quantities should I freeze?
3. How long is frozen EBM "good for"?

For reference, I am still on maternity leave and will go back to work in either January or March 2006.

Second Question: Supplementing, Freezing, BFing
DH and I can't get away from formula supplementing and I'm not sure if it's that we're lazy or what. DD will BF from me throughout the day, but when we're out about town we wind up giving her a formula bottle. Part of this is due to us not really having a "system" of when to use formula bottles, when to use EBM bottles, when to freeze, etc.

Also, sometimes I'll nurse DD and she'll seem hungry literally 10-15 minutes after she finishes nursing (for nursing, I keep her on the breast until she pops off and even after the first pop off, I offer it to her again to see if she wants to take it). During these times, we wind up giving her a bottle of formula or (if we have it) EBM...so frustrating!

Can you please help with advice?

ETA: DD was born on 8/20

Marisa

10-03-2005, 11:07 AM

madmartian -- Welcome! :)

Only you can decide for yourself whether you're comfortable leaving your DD for that long. You do need to be prepared for her being 'strange' toward you when you return -- a baby that young has not really mastered the concept of object permanence, so she won't really understand that you'll come back, she only knows that you're gone. KWIM?

I have heard of other moms who were able to leave their babies for an extended time, however, and continue BFing upon their return. You will have to be dedicated to a pumping schedule of some sort, even if it is not as frequent as it would be if you were at home nursing. You may find that your supply dips after those few days, so plan to spend a couple of days with your DD when you return, just nursing as much as she's willing, to up your supply again (it'll be great for bonding as well). You may have to take a supplement called fenugreek, which boosts milk production, or use other galactogogues such as oatmeal.

Hopefully you will have no problem meeting your 9-month goal, and more, if you choose. :)

Leslie -- you do make more milk overnight in general... it looks like he's about the right age to have had a growth spurt in the last week or so? Could be that your supply has increased because of his increased size/demand.

cc8 -- You can begin pumping at any time.

1. When should I start freezing and how should I do it?

You can start at any time that you're ready. :) You can use breastmilk storage bags, many like the Lansinoh brand. Lay them flat in your freezer and after they're frozen you can stack them to maximize space. Label them with a pen or marker with the date (and time, if you like) that it was frozen.

2. In what quantities should I freeze?

You can freeze in small increments, 2 oz. or 4 oz. A younger baby might only take 2 oz. at a time, but it's easy to thaw two bags of milk if you think she will be hungrier. (Rather than wasting any if you have a 4 oz. bottle but she only takes 2, KWIM?)

3. How long is frozen EBM "good for"?

In the back of a very very cold freezer, about 6 months. So milk that you freeze in October 2005 should be used by April of 2006 at the latest. However, once it's thawed and warmed, it should be used promptly, most say within an hour or so.

As for the supplementing... well, if you want to move away from using formula, you might just try to pump now and save a couple of oz. to use while you are out. Since you have several months left to build up a stash, there's no reason to not use some of your pumped milk while it is fresh. It will stay good for 6-8 days in the refrigerator if it's never been frozen - just warm it a little and swish to incorporate any fat that's risen to the top.

The hunger cues, however, are perfectly normal for a baby as young as yours. In the first three months, it's pretty common for a baby to want to nurse for long stretches, or to want to eat again soon after nursing. It has to do with a few things -- first, the fact that breastmilk is digested easily. She can only handle a couple of oz. at once, so once it's digested she might feel hungry again. Also, young infants are programmed to want to suck constantly. It's an instinct that keeps your milk supply up as well as keeping her close to her mama. (It's not as convenient nowadays, but back in caveman days I'm sure this was a survival tactic!) This will change dramatically after around 3 months, because she'll a) be bigger, and able to hold more milk in her tummy, after her 3-mo spurt and b) be more alert, and be able to entertain herself by watching the world -- you can essentially 'distract' her a little more easily.

I also wanted to leave you a link to Kellymom.com about cluster feeding -- that sounds kind of like what you're describing, and it's *very* common for newborns to do this, esp. in the evenings. I think we've all been there. :)

http://www.kellymom.com/babyconcerns/fussy-evening.html

Anyway... This is getting kinda long. :) I would definitely recommend starting to pump, get a cooler bag and take along a bottle of EBM if you have to. Out of the fridge, it will stay good at room temp (around 65-70 degrees) for several hours, and even longer if it's in a cooler bag with a cold pack. :)

pgbg

10-03-2005, 11:09 AM

BeachBum
I wanted to reply simply because I actually can answer your question!! :) I learn sooooo much from reading this board all day, and usually have no answers to anyone's questions, but my DS sounds like yours. He was 9 lbs 4 oz at his 4 week appointment on Friday (up from 7-3 at 1 week) and is doing great at the boob. My pediatrician said that he'd probably eat 5 oz from a bottle -- the 2 times my DH has fed him he took almost 5 (about 4.5 or so). I have 2-3 oz bags frozen, so I defrosted 2 of them. They defrost really quickly, so you could start with 2-3 oz and see how much he eats.
HTH!!

mollyeilis

10-03-2005, 12:21 PM

I have a 5.5 mo old DD who has been exclusively breastfed from the start. I'd like continue breastfeeding at least until she's 9 mo old. DH and I booked a 4.5 cruise in November, when DD will be 7 mo old -- without DD. As much as I'll miss her, I'm looking forward to spending the time alone with DH. I have a huge freezer stash that she'll use while I'm gone, and I planned on pumping and dumping while on vacation.

Lately, I find myself questioning the decision to go. I feel guilty dumping all of that breastmilk. Is there anything I can do with it other than throw it out? I'm afraid of destroying my milk supply because I probably won't pump as much as she would consume. Am I ruining my chances of breastfeeding until 9 mo by going on this trip?

Hmm. I can't imagine going that long without seeing DS. Ya know, as much as it might seem you'll want time right now, by 7 months baby is going to start being more mobile, even more interactive, just more fun. So at 7 months, you might not make the decision that you've made in not including her...

Rather than not going, would it be possible to add her to the vacation? I know with Royal Caribbean they charge 1/2 as much as the regular fare. Problem is the room had to be able to accomodate 3 people, so you might not get the room you wanted/chose...hmm.

But I know if finances had cooperated, we'd have already taken something like 3 cruises with DS...aside from the "what to do with the cloth diapers" question, it just seems like a lot of fun!

The stink is pretty much here to stay, too, unfortunately. I'm just waiting anxiously for the time when it's not a semi-solid state, when I can just dump the little solid poos in the toilet intstead of having to stand there and rinse and smell it...

Thanks Marisa. Sigh. This is the ONE thing that's gotten me to entertain the thought, if only for a moment, of ditching the cloth dipes. Anything to get away from the smell, right? But all my reasons came flooding back in to my brain and I resigned myself to deal with it (or leave it for DH to deal with bwa ha ha ha)...but for it to have me thinking about disposables? Bleah yeah it's bad! :)

Every time Luke woke up to eat last night, my breasts were sooooo full-as if I hadn't fed him in hours......My breasts have never felt full like this during the night before. Am I just making more milk now than before???

Growth spurt? Has he been wanting to eat a ton? If so, this might be the "answer" to all his sucking. :) A bit of a delayed gratification, but that's growth spurts for ya! My breasts still do this, and DS is 16 months old. I hear (I don't know as I slept through it) that DS ate all night. That explains why I was so parched when we finally got up, and why I was headachey (dehydration). And if he does it again tonight, I bet in a day or so my breasts will be full again...for me it just happens...:p

AndreaMMS

10-03-2005, 03:32 PM

I spoke to my LC again today (and she is IBCLC and was recommended by both LLL and my pediatrician). She said that each of these formula-supplimented feedings should not be taking two hours to complete - that Naomi probably isn't sucking hard enough. She also said that in her opinion while pumping isn't an ideal way of measuring my supply, the hospital-grade pump I'm using should be a fairly accurate judge, and at this point a half-hour pumping session is only giving me about 6cc's of milk, and 99% of that is only from one side.

She said that I can come see her again and she'll check Naomi's latching/sucking and give me a different supplimentation method that will train her to suck harder. If that doesn't work to up my supply she recommends that I see a doctor to get my hormone levels and thyroid checked to see if threre is an underlying medical issue that is interfering.

I know that my mother was unable to breastfeed, even with medical help/hormone shots, so I'm feeling pretty discouraged.