Breastfeeding Help and Support

[mollyeilis]

my dd had been biting me for over a week until a few days ago. it is so unsettling (mind you, she doesn't have teeth but still, ouch). i just started bracing myself for it to avoid yelping. i literally fed her w/ my finger right at her mouth, ready to break the latch. everytime she would bite i would unlatch her, say "okay, no more nursies" and sit her down next to me. at first she laughed but then she realized she wasn't getting any and she started frantically doing the milk sign. i put her back on, she bit again. repeat, repeat, repeat. i thought i would lose it b/tw her biting and everyone around me saying "i told you so" but she eventually picked up that if she bit she was going to be denied the nursies and hasn't bit me since.

i think she was doing it b/c her gums were hurting...she was also nursing 12x a day at that point (yes, my DH counted, lol).


For me, the pre-teeth chomps were by far the worst. When his gums were swollen, oh man...the agonies for BOTH of us! The pre-teeth chompingn aftermath was solid pain. But the bites that have happened (few and far between)...well, they hurt in the moment, but then it fades really quickly. It's the fear that lasts, but that's just fear. :)

Alas my guy got teeth rather early, and taking him away when he chomped did NOT work, didn't teach him anything, sigh. But he got a bunch of teeth all at once and then it was calm again. (for awhile lol) And then when teething started again, if he did bite, as I mentioned, it wasn't as bad as before he got any teeth.


As for thin skin...I haven't noticed that the inner areas are that painful, but the vulvar skin can be SO painful. I swear, if I move wrong sometimes that skin will split. OUCH. But now that we're DTD again (it was a very very long time without sex, but now we're TTC in earnest rather than just "sort of" so we kind of *have to* LOL) I haven't noticed a real problem with that aspect of it. :rolleyes: feel like I said too much....:o

[kinaida]

Is it normal for exclusively bf'd babies to be sensitive to legumes (beans, lentils, etc)? Benjamin was horribly constipated last night (screaming fits, he seemed like he was in a lot of pain) and I think it's because of the lentils I ate yesterday. He has been extra gassy after I've eaten beans, but it's never been constipation, so I'm suspecting that. If it's not legumes, what could cause a bf'd baby to become constipated?

Thanks for the help ladies!

[Marisa]

Different babies react differently to elements of their mother's diets... while beans, etc. can be fine for one baby, another may be sensitive. I always insisted that Joey had a bad reaction after I had broccoli, but then again I hate broccoli so maybe I was looking for an excuse to not have to eat it. ;)

How are his stools? If they are not hard and dry, then he is not considered truly constipated. It's likely just a particularly upsetting case of gas. Have you tried gripe water to relieve the pressure on his tummy? I know they don't sell it everywhere, but I've seen it at Whole Foods and also at Buy Buy Baby (a baby superstore chain in our area).

You're also probably seeing him react more to his gas these days -- the first two weeks or so are a sleepy time for a newborn. At around 3-4 weeks they're waking up more. He may have been gassy all along, but wasn't really responding to it as dramatically, KWIM? That said, many times a sensitivity will show up around 3-4 weeks -- this is when I gave up dairy and soy with my DS. If you eat a lot of dairy/soy as well, you might consider cutting back on those as well, and see if your DS's symptoms improve.

Speaking of limiting your diet while breastfeeding, someone linked a cool article on colic and allergens in mom's diet:

From the abstract:


Background. There is controversy regarding whether hypersensitivity to food proteins contributes to colic among breastfed infants.

Methods. A randomized, controlled trial of a low-allergen maternal diet was conducted among exclusively breastfed infants presenting with colic. In the active arm, mothers excluded cow's milk, eggs, peanuts, tree nuts, wheat, soy, and fish from their diet; mothers in the control group continued to consume these foods. Outcomes were assessed after 7 days, as the change in cry/fuss duration over 48 hours, with validated charts. The primary end point was a reduction in cry/fuss duration of ≥25% from baseline. Mothers also assessed the responses to diet with categorical and visual analog scales.

Conclusion. Exclusion of allergenic foods from the maternal diet was associated with a reduction in distressed behavior among breastfed infants with colic presenting in the first 6 weeks of life.


From an Australian study published in PEDIATRICS Vol. 116 No. 5 November 2005
http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/116/5/e709

[newyorkgirl]

Marisa, that study was only done on colicky infants, though, right?

My question is this - early on, I asked my ped about dairy and soy sensitivities in Bennett and he said that Bennett was fine. However, when I saw the LC for my thrush problems, she thought that he might be sensitive to dairy and soy. She based it on a green poop diaper that she saw (he'd been having normal BMs right up until we saw the LC, then he decided that that was the time to have a green one) as well as some redness in the skin around his eyes. So she suggested I stay away from dairy and soy products. I've been mostly compliant, with a few lapses here and there (you gotta have vanilla ice cream when you eat apple pie!), with the obvious sources of dairy and soy. I didn't go out of my way to avoid whey, baked goods, etc.

So when I mentioned it to my ped as a way of asking him when a baby's gut matures enough so that I can reintroduce dairy and soy back into my diet, he dismissed the LC's claims that Bennett was sensitive to dairy and soy in the first place and said Bennett was fine since he had no true allergic reaction, i.e. rashes, stomach upset, etc.

1. Who should I believe?
2. When does a baby's gut mature?
3. As a follow-up question to #2, so when can I start reintroducing dairy and soy into my diet?

[NYN]

For me, the pre-teeth chomps were by far the worst. When his gums were swollen, oh man...the agonies for BOTH of us! The pre-teeth chompingn aftermath was solid pain. But the bites that have happened (few and far between)...well, they hurt in the moment, but then it fades really quickly. It's the fear that lasts, but that's just fear.
this is comforting information. so true about the fear - she put the fear of god into me!

[kinaida]

Marisa -- we're using simethicone drops on him (which he LOVES to eat, but I'm not sure how successful it is in reducing his gas). What is different about gripe water?

Thanks for that study. Very interesting. I'm going to try to limit my intake of those things and see if that helps.

[portlandbride]

A quick question for those of you with more than one child.
How quickly did your milk supply drop after getting pregnant with the second one?
My milk production has not been as good as it was previously and I am trying to think of what it could be. I know it could be AF, but I've gotten her twice before and it didn't affect my supply that much. I take tons of things to keep production up - More Milk Plus, Blessed Thistle, Marshmallow Root, oatmeal, water.
I know I'm probably not PG, but I also know it can affect milk supply. I am hoping to BF for at least a year so I want my milk to stay!!:)
Thanks for the help!

[Marisa]

Erika -- yes, that study isolated infants with demonstrated "colic" symptoms, described as extreme crying/fussiness..... but it does make you wonder if the more moderate symptoms of distress (discomfort after eating, fussiness, etc.) could also be helped by diet modification.

Interesting stuff! I never used to be such a science nerd before I was a breastfeeding mom, that's for sure! :)

K -- gripe water is supposed to be a more "natural" approach to easing gas, it has herbs as well as sodium bicarbonate (think baking soda). I don't know, we never had much luck with the Mylicon drops, and DS was better with the gas after I stopped dairy so I never tried it myself. But I've heard many many moms recommend it. It's worth a try, I guess! :)

http://www.colichelp.com/shop/gripewater.html

[Candy]

Gripe Water It worked great for us. The Mylicon stopped working, so we decided to give the gripe water a try. We used the brand Colic Ease since it doesn't have sodium bicarbonate. You aren't supposed to use SC for more than 2 weeks.

I really wish someone would had told me to give up dairy and other allergens when DD was an infant. We dealt with colic from 3 weeks until almost 4 months. Oh well. I'll know for the next child. :rolleyes:

[lml41981]

Question: DD has started latching improperly. She isn't opening her mouth wide enough anymore and when she does open it widely, she will slide back down and just suck on the nipple.

I am assuming my mistake is giving her a pacifier at 3.5 weeks. I did so at the suggestion of our pediatrician because she was using me as a pacifier. I think part of the problem is that we used an Avent pacifier because that's what we had...I should have known not to use one by a bottle company, probably.

How can I retrain her to latch properly, or do I need to call an IBCLC or LLL person?

[magdesilver]

lml, are you still using a paci? If so, maybe you can take a break from it until you get your latch sorted out. One reason for the pulling back might be you have a fast letdown (overactive let down). Sometimes they'll move way back because they can control the flow better and slow it down a little bit. If you think this might be the problem, you might want to express a little bit into a burp rag before you latch her on so it doesn't come out so fast for her. Also I find it helps get as much boob in their mouth to compress the whole areola (like a sandwich) so it's easier for them to take in a lot which is more comfortable.
Hope this passes and she gets back to a good latch soon!

[Sarah]

Question: DD has started latching improperly. She isn't opening her mouth wide enough anymore and when she does open it widely, she will slide back down and just suck on the nipple.

I am assuming my mistake is giving her a pacifier at 3.5 weeks. I did so at the suggestion of our pediatrician because she was using me as a pacifier. I think part of the problem is that we used an Avent pacifier because that's what we had...I should have known not to use one by a bottle company, probably.

How can I retrain her to latch properly, or do I need to call an IBCLC or LLL person?
Usually you just have to keep working at it. Delatch her whenever she delatches, and tickled her lower lip with your nipple until she opens wide. Use the "C" hold to compress the breast and make it a better shape to nurse on. Keep a close eye that her lower and upper lips are flanged out, not tucked in.

ITA with the PP who mentioned cutting out the pacifier, if possible. I know it's frustrating to have the baby nursing all the time, but the baby needs to "use you as a pacifier" in order to keep a strong milk supply, especially around 3 weeks (growth spurt time). Comfort nursing isn't a bad thing, though it's frustrating. See if maybe she'll let your DH use his pinky to comfort her if you are really needing a break.

[mollyeilis]

the baby needs to "use you as a pacifier" in order to keep a strong milk supply, especially around 3 weeks (growth spurt time). Comfort nursing isn't a bad thing.

ITA with that!

[BeachBum]

MS
I realize I'm late to the MS party here, but I have it too. We knew we wanted to get preggo, so I opted not to take any drugs. It ended up taking us about 2 years to get pregnant which was a lot longer than we thought....
I haven't had any problems lately, so I am going to keep BF until something changes (either we want to wean or I have a problem).
I have found no evidence that drugs prevent long term issues, but that they are only effective fighting the "now" problems. If anyone knows different I'd like to hear about it.

molly I'd like to know about the alternative therapies. Could you PM me please?

[lml41981]

When she is going through a growth spurt, I definitely let her use me as a pacifier. But on a day to day basis, she pretty much sucks on something nonstop. If it isn't me, it is a pacifier or her hand. I'd rather she suck a pacifier than her hand because I don't want her getting sucking blisters. I also need to be able to be up and getting things done around the house, so I can't really have a baby on the boob 24/7.

I looked for Soothies today, but none of the BRUs have them because they were discontinued to bring in a new Soothie line, apparently. I will try to retrain her...I think maybe I do have overactive letdown, though, because she will sometimes pull off coughing.

Thanks for the help. :)

[magdesilver]

lml, if you do have OALD, one thing I did to help with that in the beginning was to feed her on one side per BF session only. It made a big difference! Soothie pacifiers are available at Walmart- they are called parent's choice there. Has she gotten sucking blisters on her hand from sucking it? I haven't heard of that happening before. My DD sucks her fingers to help herself get to sleep and I prefer it to a pacifier, because she can find and put them in her mouth without my assistance :) .

[LexyLou]

LML-you can get Soothies at www.childmed.com ...I don't think your DD's latch issue is because of the paci though. If you started giving her the paci just a couple of days ago and then at the same time started to have latch issues I would agree but if you gave it to her at 3.5 weeks and she's now close to 10 weeks (right?) then I would say it might be your overactive let down or something else. Try the Soothie, my DD loved it in the beginning..at 8 weeks she started refusing all paci's so I can't get her to take one anymore but when she would take one it was only the soothie.

[celina]

I have food poising and have been violently ill for the last 16 hours or so. :mad: I decided to be cautious and not breastfeed DD. Am I being overly cautious? Should I go back to breastfeeding or wait until this thing fully passes? (I don't really have a supply right now as I haven't held down any fluids.)

:confused:

[Surftraitor]

Quick Question: Do any of you mix formula and BM in same bottle?? My coworker does this and has had some success. I'm considering experimenting with this (3 oz. BM and 2 oz. formula) as I've decided to move to pumping exclusively. DS has been really slow with BF (ie. each nursing session is at least 1 hour and then I need to burp him/keep upright for 20 minutes). No matter what I do DS does a suck-suck-chill out process that is getting worse. Additionally, I'm barely pumping what he is eating. I'd like to pursue this option to build up some freezer stock as I'm planning to wean in a month.

So, anyone else doing this feeding method? Thoughts?

[nancy drew]

celina im pretty sure it is safe to breastfeed, if you feel up to it. you wont pass food poisoning on to your daughter, if that is what you are worried about :) im sure nursing is the last thing you want to do, given how crappy you must feel, but im guessing that you should continue to let her try to nurse (when you feel ok enough to do so) so you dont mess up your supply too bad. keep trying to get some fluids in, and rest, rest, rest! maybe try nursing in the side-lying position so you dont have to move around too much and you can get rest.

[duke's flygirl]

Nancy,

Sorry to post in here, but I can't send you a PM since it says you are full. Can you please PM me your zip code, it got rubbed off in the mail, and I can't read it. Thanks!

[nancy drew]

oops, sorry about that. better clean out my inbox again. :)

ill pm you my zip code :)

[Koala_Gurl]

Hi all!

DD is 9 months and BF'd w/ some solids. I haven't been using BM for her oatmeal, but I would like to start. Trouble is, I don't have much (<20oz) of a freezer supply, and I only pump about 1.5 - 2oz a day (about the same amt. I would need for the oatmeal).

How can I increase? Do I just let the pump go a while after pumping (I usually pump a few hours after DD goes to bed at 6 - 7pm.) Should I add an AM pumping?

What about the supplements? Fenugreek? How much??

TIA!!!

[magdesilver]

KoalaGurl,
I pump for DD's oatmeal every day. I usually pump 1.5-2 oz. exactly- just what I need for the oatmeal that day (or if I skip a day then I get ahead). Can you just start using up that much of your freezer stash and then pump each day to replace it? I pump first thing in the morning, on one side while DD nurses on the other, and stop after about 5-10 minutes, as soon as the flow slows down and I have the necessary amount for the cereal.

[celina]

Koala_Gurl

I’ve been struggling with my supply since day 1 (DD is now almost 3 months old). I take 3 Fenugreek pills & 2 Blessed Thistle pills at every meal (so a total of 9 Fenugreeks and 6 Blessed Thistles a day). I also eat oatmeal every morning and drink a ton of water. If I’m feeling a bit low, I also add Mother’s Milk tea to the equation.

I know it’s a lot, but it’s the only way I’ve been able to keep up with my DD. And I have to say, it’s worth it. :) Oh, and a friendly warning, the Fenugreeks pills make me smell like Celery Salt when I perspire. So stock up on perfume. ;)

[Koala_Gurl]

Thanks, magdesilver & celina!

I will try the fenugreek!

My supply has always been pretty good (at least I think so!) I just needed to bump it up a bit for more freezer storage. I would prefer to have at least a 2 day supply in the freezer...just in case! :)

[Dreshny]

Asher has been on a nursing strike for the past three days. :eek: I just looked on Kellymom, and apparently, there are lots of reasons why:

- He's had a cold for nearly a week now, and he's congested.
- He's teething.
- I was at my parents' house since Thursday (back home now.)
- While at my parents' house, I was using their soap/shampoo.
- He just started crawling in earnest.

It's SO frustrating, though. He's only nursing when he's really, really tired (like, overtired and crying tired), and any other time I offer, he has a coughing/choking/gagging fit and cries. :(

I'm really hoping this resolves soon. I have so much extra milk that I keep soaking everything. And I feel bad, because he's obviously hungry, but he won't or can't nurse.

I'm not THAT worried about my milk supply, because he hasn't stopped nursing completely, but he is going lots of hours without eating, and he's always been a VERY frequent nurser in the past.

I've resorted to trying to squirt milk into his mouth, and he usually will swallow it until he gets frustrated and tries to get out of my lap.

This will pass, right? Especially now that we're back home? Though we do go to my parents' house fairly regularly...

Does anyone else have experience with nursing strikes?

[Marisa]

Roseanne -- yes, it will pass, hopefully being home will make a big difference! Can you 'steam' him before you try to nurse during the day -- run the shower really hot and sit in the closed bathroom, to try to unclog his poor little nose? Saline drops might also help, we've had limited success with those...

Have you tried the "momsicles", or a frozen breastmilk slush? That helped us through a couple of shorter strikes with Joey...

[Dreshny]

Thanks, Marisa, I'll try your suggestions.

So this happened a lot with Joey? What usually triggered it, and how long did they last?

[Marisa]

I'd say two or three times that I can remember, probably when he was just a little older than Asher. I know there was at least one time when he was so stuffy he wouldn't eat, and we actually slept in the papasan chair so he could be upright -- he was that congested... The other time I remember for sure was when he was getting his top teeth in. His nursing was terrible for about two days, until the teeth finally broke through the gums.

We were very lucky, in that it only lasted a day or two each time.

Just thinking of other things -- will he take a little milk from a sippy, if you hold it for him? (thus he gets the milk, esp. important since he's sick, but no bottle confusion, kwim?)

[Dreshny]

I can try the sippy again. He wasn't too interested in it except to suck on the handles last time I gave it to him. And even though I tipped a little water into his mouth, he wasn't really into sucking the spout.

He did nurse last night before bed and a few times during the night (though it was accompanied by a lot of crawling away. I had to constantly keep dragging him back and relatching him, which is par for the course these days in the middle of the night.)

He's been awake for an hour this morning, though, and he won't nurse.

[HGMorgann]

Roseanne I am sorry about your nursing strike. I have only had one or two strikes due to teething and hot weather. We gave DD cold EBM in a sippy w/o a valve and that helped a bit as she would take an ounce or two. One LLL leader recommended taking a bath together to see if perhaps the skin-to-skin contact in a relaxing environment would help. We didn't try as the strike ended, however, it sounded like a wonderful trick to try:-)

[Dreshny]

Jeez. I tried to nurse him, and he seemed hungry, but he choked and gagged. So I tried it in the bathroom with the shower running, and he was so distracted he wouldn't even try to latch.

I have to take him to the ped today for his (late) 6-month appt., and I'm afraid to even mention this...

I'll try the bath trick later when we get back.

[jenji]

delurking to say that I appreciate all the info on this thread so much. I read it everyday because I plan to BF one day when I have a baby and I don't feel like you can ever be too prepared for challenges that may come.
Also I went to my SIL's baby shower this weekend and gave her a basket of BF supplies that I knew about thanks to all of you:
lanisoh disposable breast pads
washable breast pads
gerber breast therapy warm/cool pack
breast milk storage bags
So That's What They're for
The Breastfeeding Book by Drs. Sears
Lanisoh cream
water bottle
Got Milk burp cloths

I think she really liked it. She told her mom after the shower that her SIL, who BFs, said those were all really great things.
thanks again!

[Dreshny]

He did take 1/2 oz from a sippy cup this morning. And I talked to the LLL leader on call, who had some suggestions, and just now, I got him to nurse for the first time today as he was waking up from a nap.

The ped said he could be weaning, but we all know that's not true. :D Gotta love how the medical establishment knows nothing about this...

[Sebski]

Roseanne- sorry that you're experiencing a 'strike'... wish I had some words of wisdom, but I'm still such a newbie! Just wanted to post some nursing vibes for you! :)

[mcl]

hi roseanne,
ds also had a cold this week and was so congested that he couldn't nurse. we used vicks baby rub and he is immediately back to the breast. make sure it's the "baby" one though.

[Dreshny]

I *think* he's finally past it now. But that was really frustrating.

[Marisa]

Asher is lucky he has such a patient and well-read mommy. :)

[jp'swife]

No questions right now...just wanted to say that this is a great thread filled with a ton of good information!
I'm a very happy BF mommy!

[Dreshny]

Asher is lucky he has such a patient and well-read mommy. :)

Thanks, Marisa! You're pretty patient and well-read yourself. :) You know, if I hadn't lurked in this thread and browsed the Kellymom site while I was pregnant, I never would have known what was going on.

[lorialys]

Just got back from Lucas's 2 month WBV. He did so well! He is 13 lbs, 8 ounces, which is 95th percentile. 23 and 3/4 inches which is also 95th percentile. And his head is 42 cm which is 99th percentile.

Comparing his weight at the 2 week visit to his weight today, he has gained 9.3 ounces a week! Yay for mommy milk!

[Marisa]

Comparing his weight at the 2 week visit to his weight today, he has gained 9.3 ounces a week!

Go Lucas and go mommy! Gotta love those chubby BF babies!! :)

[LILRTL]

HELP! My pump isn't pumping! :confused: I have the Medela single electric. When I have the "pump" part off, it is still sucking. However, when I attach it to the plastic part, nothing happens. Any ideas?!

[lorialys]

Thanks Marisa!! I'm such a proud momma today. :D Especially after being so worried for the first 3 and a half weeks of his life since it took him that long to regain his birthweight. I'm so glad that I resisted the urge to supplement him, knowing that I could produce enough for him given the chance. :)

[jp'swife]

Ok, now I have a question.

About when are 'we' able to not wear a bra anymore at night because of leakage? I wear a bra every night to bed with breast pads, of course, because of leakage. It's not that the bras are uncomfortable....I just like to be 'free' while in bed, if you know what I mean!
Is there a time while you are nursing that breast pads aren't needed anymore during the night (hense the bra) or am I just odd???

[magdesilver]

Jill,
I think it depends on the individual when/if you stop leaking. I haven't leaked at night (except for the occasional time when DD slept much longer than usual) or really at all anytime since DD was about 3 months old. I never wear a bra at night anymore and am so much more comfy. Maybe you could buy a waterproof pad (the kind that is soft on one side and vinyl on the other) and put it under you so if you leaked it wouldn't be a big deal? Or sleep on a towel? It depends on how much you leak. Some BF moms leak the whole time they BF, some don't.

[jp'swife]

magdesilver- Thanks hon...that's what I was thinking about doing.
I guess it depends on the individual too but I think I will try the towel during the night. It's just such a pain to wear a bra, ya know? It's the one time during the day that you just don't want that 'holding you back'!

[Lindzee82]

I wanted to post my son's 1 month well baby visit results since I have been exclusively breast feeding for 5 weeks 1 day.

At birth Matthew was 8lbs, 13oz and 20.5"
At 2 weeks Matthew was 9lbs, 7oz and 21.75"
At 4 weeks 6 days Matthew was 11lbs and 24"

So he seems to be gaining about 7oz a week which is about an ounce a day!

***

Now on to some not so good news. I told my ped that I was worried because I am not pumping much at all and really have no freezer stash. Maybe 8oz in the freezer tops right now. When Matthew is given a bottle of breast milk he will drink at least 6oz at a time. When I pump I am only able to get 1-3oz and I really only have time to pump *maybe* once a day, if at all. So it takes me about 2-3 days to pump enough for me to be away from Matthew for an hour at a time. My ped thinks that I should start supplementing with formula. Either use formula when I am away from Matthew or use formula once a day and replace that feeding with a pumping session so that he can have breast milk when I am away. My other option is to not supplement and not leave Matthew alone. I am just so torn on what to do. I would HATE HATE HATE to give Matthew any bit of formula, but I am not sure what else I can do. I was hoping to be able to pump this morning but Matthew has been awake since 7 and it is not practicle for me to pump when he is awake because 1, it takes to long and 2, when he is awake he could become hungry at any time and when he is hungry he wants to eat right then and there and I am afraid that he would choose to get hungry immediately after I stop pumping and then I wont have any milk for him. I just don't know what to do and I am so stressed over this. Any ideas, suggestions, advice or support would be sooo much appreciated right now. I am feaking out!

[jp'swife]

Lindsey-
You are doing a great job BF!!
Keep up the great work!

Also, are you working that you have to leave Matthew (hense the pumping?)

[lorialys]

Hey Lindsey, sorry you're fretting over this sweetie. I'll give you some tips, what I did when I was in your situation. At first I barely pumped anything. It has slowly improved, but I still don't get much. One thing that helped me was to pump about halfway between where his feedings should be. Now I know you feed on demand, and so do I. But he usually goes 2-3 hours between feedings. So I would feed him say at 9:00, which would take 30-45 minutes and I'd be done at 9:30/9:45. His next feeding would be somewhere between 11:00 and 12:00. So around 10:15/10:30 I would pump. I wouldn't get as much as I would have if I had pumped during a missed feeding, but it would be something. I would do this after every feeding, which would yield enough for a full feeding after awhile. I did this for a few days straight, and it either upped my supply (just like feeding that often during a growth spurt would) to where I could pump more, or my body just got adjusted to letting down to a pump, so I began to get more. Now I can almost pump enough for a full bottle in one pumping session.

Another thing you might want to try is getting ahold of an electric pump. I know they're expensive, but is there anywhere you might be able to rent a hospital grade pump? I can definitely get more from an electric as opposed to my Avent Isis hand pump (which I think you have, correct?).

Another comment I have is, 6 ounces in one feeding seems like a bit much to me for a 1 month old. I'm sure others might know better, but Lucas was only taking 3-4 ounces at a time at that age. Is he spitting up a lot after he finishes his bottle? He may be continuing to suck even after he is full, because milk comes out so easily from a bottle. And he may want to comfort suck without getting additional milk, which he can do while breastfeeding between letdowns, but cannot do from a bottle because milk is constantly flowing when he is sucking.

[krbb]

Subscribing and I have a quick question:

I have been told/read conflicting information on whether to offer both breasts during a feeding or just one? I was doing both when I was engorged, but since then just doing one. He doesn't seem to be hungry after the first one to offer the other. Is there a right and wrong with this? Thanks!

At least I know Oliver is getting enough food. He had passed his birth weight in less than week!!

[EJM]

Lindsey: When I was practicing with my pump I fed DD on one side then when she was finished I would pump on the other breast. Is that possible for you, or do you normally feed on both sides? When my DD was your DS age I was hardly pumping at all. I think it took a week of regular pumping for my body to respond to the pump, and now I can pump a larger amount.

I agree with lorialys on the amount, I actually posted the same question in here a month ago. What I realized with advice from this thread was that DD didn't understand the flow of the bottle was so quick. She never spit up eating 4-5oz out of the bottle and screamed for more, but she was drinking too quickly to realize she was full like she would on the breast. To solve that, my DH burped her after every oz and played with her a bit -- she quickly cut back to 2.5-3oz in a feeding once we did that.

ETA: krbb, I say do whatever works for you. I've heard both as well. I started only offering one side from the beginning and it has worked for us so I stuck with it.

[JATTNJ]

I am hoping some of you can give me advice on a new development with my ds.....
He is 4 1/2 months old - EBF. I started pumping when he was about 8 weeks old - he took the bottle with no problem (from anyone other than me). When someone would babysit him at night, he would take the bottle but still needed to be nursed (comfort?) when I got home to really get a good night's sleep.
NOW...the past week or so, he will NOT take the bottle from anyone (2 x - one my mom, once my mil). He screams bloody murder and refuses to eat.....when I get home he is either asleep from exhaustation and/or his eyes are red from crying so much. Once he sees me or my husband, he immediately calms down - even starts smiling/cooing!
Has anyone experienced this?? I am really concerned for 2 reasons: #1 - I want to be able to go out to dinner every now and then w/o feeling like he is going to starve; #2 - I am going back to work in a couple of months so he will need to take a bottle then.

HELP :(

[Natrat80]

LILRTL I don't have the Medela pump I use an Avent ISIS. But for a few days I couldn't get my ISIS to work. I finally got frustrated and took it apart and put it back together, then it worked. Could you try that? Also, make sure your bra isn't tucked under the pump. Sorry I can't help you more!!

[JillyB]

Lindzee82 - When I first started building up my stash, I also wasn't able to "get" much from each pumping session. I pretty much was doing the same thing as lorialys, and I gradually was able to "get" more (and it become much easier with every use of the pump). I've been back to work, since the beginning of October, and I have had zero problems *knock on wood* keeping up with DS's feeding demands.

And I agree with what the others have said about 6 oz. seeming like too much for one feeding at one month. I'm by no means a doctor, but my DS is 4 months old...and the bottles that he takes at daycare are usually between 5 1/2 - 6 oz. When we went for his 4 month check-up, our ped asked how much he was being fed in each bottle at daycare, and he said what we were giving him was on the "high" end but within what he would consider an acceptable range based on DS's age and weight. HTH!

[lorialys]

Lindsey, I forgot to respond to your concerns about Matthew wanting to eat just after you pump. When I was pumping between every feeding, that sometimes happened. I would go ahead and put him to the breast, and let him nurse as long as he wanted to, until he got full. You have to remember that your breasts are never really empty! Milk is always being produced, and Matthew's sucking should be able to stimulate a letdown, even if you've just pumped that breast.

Another thing you might want to try is try to pump on one side while you feed Matthew on the other. Both breasts letdown at the same time, and the letdown the baby produces is generally stronger than the letdown from the pump suction alone. I never really got this to work, since the mechanics are somewhat difficult. But you might have more luck than me. This may be harder to do with a manual pump than with an electric.

[HGMorgann]

Lindzee What pump are you using? If its not an Ameda, Medela or Avent Isis, I would first start there and see if the pump is the problem. I used a crappy pump one time and got like 1/2 oz. but with a good pump I get at least 2 oz.
I'm sorry your doctor recommended formula, especially now. If you have to supplement with formula, I would wait until you had no more freezer stash, rather than starting now. I don't think formula is bad or anything, but until you HAVE to, I wouldnt.

I am no pumping expert, but if I had to pump so I could go back to work, ect, I would first check out the "Moms with Pumps" thread. They are very knowledgable. I would also probally start taking Fenugeek, eating tons of oatmeal, and lots of water to increase my supply. At 4 weeks, I could get more in the morning, so I would always pump then. Baby would feed on one side, I would pump the other. Also, you probally just got through the 3 week growth spurt, so your supply is still regulating. Until you cross the 6 week growth spurt line, I wouldn't worry too much, keep pumping regularly and enjoy breastfeeding that baby! Sorry to write a book.

[Marisa]

Lindsey -- I agree with the others about pumping one side and feeding on the other -- one side can be a complete feeding for him, and if you can manage to pump the other side simultaneously (or even just hold up the horns) you can catch the letdown, which happens on both sides at once. The letdown you get from the baby is always going to be stronger than from the pump, so you may get more that way.

I also have to agree that 6 oz. may be a little too much for a 5 week old... My DS was still doing 2-4 oz. in his bottles at that time. Better to give him a smaller bottle, with a slower flow nipple perhaps? -- and burp every oz. or 1 1/2 oz. -- he might be satisfied with less but be drinking all that milk because it comes out so quickly with the bottle. (His stomach is only the size of his fist, remember! :))

krbb -- no need to offer both breasts if you're comfortable doing just one. In fact, if you leave him on one side he'll be more likely to get at the fattier hindmilk.

JATTNJ -- it sounds like he's starting to become aware that you guys are gone -- a bit of separation anxiety? When they're little and sleepy they're easy to leave with anyone, there's not as much of a problem. He's starting to make the distinction between "mommy" and "stranger" (even though I know your MIL, etc isn't really a stranger!) It's a developmental stage, and it does pass.

As for taking the bottle, would he be receptive to drinking a little milk from a cup? You can take the valve out of a sippy so that the milk will dribble out of the spout (obviously someone would have to hold it for him). When he goes to daycare, he might have to do a little "reverse cycling" -- nursing like crazy in the evening to reconnect with you, taking only a few oz. throughout the day -- but that's a transitional thing, many babies go through it.

[Lindzee82]

jp'swife - Thanks! No, I am not working. I have been pumping for when I do have to leave Matthew alone. For example I had an appointment that I could not bring Matthew to so my mom had to watch him. On Sunday I wanted to do groceries alone since it was quite cold out and I didn't want to bring Matthew out. I just need a supply for when I need/want alone time.

Lorene - Thanks for the tips for pumping. I thought we were starting to get a schedule established, but we really aren't. Your pumping schedule sounds good, but right now Matthew is doing this "snacking" thing when he is awake. He wants to eat about 5 minutes on one side every hour. So I don't know where I would find the time to pump. I thought I had Matthew down for a nap so I was going to take a shower and then pump...but he woke up. So now I can't pump or shower. I have heard that it is good to pump one side while he nurses on the other. However, I just don't think it is physically possible for me to do it. Because Matthew is so heavy nursing is an olympic sport for us. I can feed him on my right in the football hold. However, I am so uncoordinated with my left hand that 1) I would not be able to pump the pump manually and 2) I have to use a boppy to feed him and there would be no room for the pump. When I feed him on my left I have to do a cross cradle hold type thing so that I can still hold him with my right hand so he is in front of my right boob. These are the only ways that I can comfortably and successfully feed him so I don't think that can be changed. Another concern I have with the schedule you posted is that I wouldn't have time to wash and sterilize the pump between the two pumping sessions if Matthew was awake at all between. He doesn't have a lot of moments when he is content to just sit in his bouncer and watch me do things. This is just so hard. Eric and I have been looking at electric pumps. It is a lot of money to spend right now since we are on one income. Also, we don't want to spend the money if it may not improve things. Maybe I will look into renting a hospital pump and see how that works. I am just getting so discouraged and want to give up so many times a day. I thought 6oz was a lot, as well, but he doesn't spit up afterwards. We feed him in 2oz increments and he isn't happy and satisfied until he gets 6oz. The ped didn't seem concerned when I told her how much he ate. We try to give him a pacifier between feedings to see if he just wants to suck but he gets so frustrated that no milk comes out of it. So we assume that he is truly hungry. I just don't know.

krbb - I have gone back and forth on that one or both breast issue. Sometimes I offer just one if he didn't eat much the first session (I do two sessions of feeding. Let him eat until he stops - usually about 10 minutes - and then burp and put him back on) like only 5 minutes. I burp him then put him back on so that he can empty the breast and get the good hind milk. However, if he does a great feeding like 10+ minutes before a burp then I will put him on the other. It all depends on the time of day and if i am trying to get him really full or not. I am not sure if there is a wrong or right answer here though.

EJM - Most times I do offer both breasts to Matthew. Maybe I could try just offering one side and pumping the other. Sometimes, he is just not satisfied after one breast though. When we give Matthew a bottle we do it in 2oz increments. So he will drink 2oz and then he has to wait until the second 2oz is thawed out and heated before he gets to drink it. So there is time in between the ounces. And he always wants 6. So I don't know.

JillyB - Thanks for sharing your pumping story. I guess I just have to make a better effort at finding times to pump. Now I am worried about how much Matthew is taking from the bottle. Maybe we should be limiting him. I am just so confused!

HGMorgann - I am using an Avent Isis pump. So I don't believe the pump is the problem. I am sorry that my ped suggested the formula too. Because coming from a ped it seems more tempting. I do try to pump in the morning when I can because I do notice that I have an increased supply then. I will give it another few weeks and see what happens.

Marisa - Because Matthew is so "big" for me it just isn't possible for me to feed and pump simultaneously. I am starting to think that maybe we are feeding him too much with the bottle, although he does take it and doesn't spit up. We will try to regulate and limit him I think. This is just so hard!

[EJM]

Lindsey: You'll definitely figure out something that works for you, try not to stress about it. I found the sheer volume of information overwhelming, especially when I was sleep deprived and trying to keep baby happy. If you are home you have some time to figure out what works in your situation. For us, DD had a much more predictable routine after her 6 week growth spurt and life has been SO much better and enjoyable since then (she's 9 weeks tomorrow). I feel like more than the milk truck :) .

I didn't realize you were using a hand pump. I can hardly manage both DD and my PIS when I tried to both feed and pump, let alone a manual pump. Would someone be willing to give you an electric pump as a holiday gift? I know it sounds funny, but being able to pump and let DH feed DD really helped my sanity on days when I just needed a break. I think that is the best gift someone could give a new mommy!

Have you tried different brands of pacifiers? My DD loved Soothies and tolerated Mams until week 6 (she refused Nuks). Now she hates everything except the Mams.

[SiValleySteph]

Another concern I have with the schedule you posted is that I wouldn't have time to wash and sterilize the pump between the two pumping sessions if Matthew was awake at all between.

Just a tip ... if you're going to be pumping more than once over the day, just stick the entire Avent isis (connected to the bottle and all) in the fridge and don't worry about washing it and sterlizing it every time. Just do it once at the end of the day. Or better yet, get hubby to do it when he comes home. :p

[karen]

I do what SiValleySteph does with my PIS parts. I put the parts in a Ziploc bag/container after each pump and I use it multiple times without having to wash and sterilize.

[Lindzee82]

EJM - Thanks! I am hoping that after 6 weeks things will start to get more predictable. Yep, I got myself a hand pump. My DH and I have been looking at electric pumps but I am scared to try one. The electric suction freaks me out. We have tried a few brands of pacifiers. Matthew will take the Nuks and Parents Choice. For Christmas he is getting some Avent ones. (what else do you put in a newborns stocking ;) ) So we will see how that works.

SiValleySteph and karen - Oh my goodness!! Thank you so much for the tip!! I didn't know I could use the pump multiple times a day without washing it. That would make things soooo much easier and I am sure I could pump at least twice a day if I don't have to wash it in between! Yay! I actually feel better!

[Sarah]

Lindzee- Forgive me if I am being too simplistic- I don't know the specifics of your life or situation, but I don't think you really need to worry about this so much. There's no need to pump once a day and worry about having a freezer stash at this point. If you need to go out, you'll need maybe 3 oz a feeding, and if you're not WOH, there's no reason you HAVE to leave the baby much. I mean, if you want to, that's great, but you don't need to feel like it's a crisis. I have never left my baby for more than an hour (so no bottles) and she's been fine.

[magdesilver]

Lindzee,
I have to agree with Sarah. If you want to have some type of stash, I'd pump in the morning on one side while you feed your baby on the other. You don't have to give a bottle every day, and if you are a SAHM, you don't have to have a huge stash- I have never had any stash nor have I ever pumped until I started feeding my DD cereal (so I could mix it with EBM). After the first 2 months or so, you will be fine to leave your baby for an hour or 2 without worry, but just hang in there because right now you are still in the way beginning! It does get much better and easier when you just go with your baby and don't get caught up too much in a "schedule"..... My DD is almost 8 months old and it's only in the last 2-3 months that I've been able to really have a good idea of what each day is like (and that is always dependent on her wake up time... a day that starts at 7:30 looks different than one that begins at 6, KWIM?). Just go with the flow and enjoy this sweet time with your newborn and life will be easier!

[jp'swife]

Lindzee-
I totally agree with the other posters, that's why I had asked (in my previous post) if you were working and if that was the reason why you had to try pumping so often and so much in order to have a stash.
I only started pumping about 2 months ago and that was really only because I wanted to have a bottle if we were out and about for more than a few hours and if I needed it 'just in case'. Most of the time I just fed him in the car under a blanket. I'm a SAHM, so I really don't pump often at all.
If you are really worried about leaving for an hour without him, can you just feed him before you leave? I would do that if I needed to run on a quick errand and worried (while DH would watch him at home) that he would get hungry.

[Sebski]

Quick question - sorry if this has been discussed b4 but I don't have time to search...

Pumping - I pumped 2oz yesterday and another 2 today so far... I'm trying to get at least 5oz for a bottle since my mom is watching DS tomorrow for a couple of hours. I just realized though, that I don't know if I can combine all these pumpings into 1 bottle. I know that whatever I pump today can be combined, but can I add in whatever I pumped from yesterday? None of it's frozen... I just don't get much from pumping so I won't be able to get it all in one day.

Thanks!

[magdesilver]

Sebski, yes you can add them all together, it's not a problem :) .

[mollyeilis]

I told my ped that I was worried because I am not pumping much at all and really have no freezer stash. Maybe 8oz in the freezer tops right now. When Matthew is given a bottle of breast milk he will drink at least 6oz at a time. When I pump I am only able to get 1-3oz and I really only have time to pump *maybe* once a day, if at all. So it takes me about 2-3 days to pump enough for me to be away from Matthew for an hour at a time. My ped thinks that I should start supplementing with formula.

Matthew is SO young.

One of the things you mentioned as to why you need to be away was an appointment that he could not go to. Since you have someone watching him anyway, what if you, that person, and Matthew all went together? If it was a gyn appointment (well, son and hubby went to a followup appointment with me, it was no biggie) or something, they can be in the waiting room, and he could be brought to you if he was suddenly hungry. You could feed him while waiting on the doctor then the sitter-person could take him out for the actual appointment, and so on.

Maybe it's b/c I could barely move for months, but to me, those early days and weeks are meant for SOLELY (not that you're not allowed to be away for bits of time, LOL, but that the focus should be Matthew and your relationship) being with your newborn, building your milk supply, and being flexible enough that as he grows you can change with him. Since you are lucky enough to be at home with him, you might as well think about taking advantage of all that entails!


You have to remember that your breasts are never really empty! Milk is always being produced, and Matthew's sucking should be able to stimulate a letdown, even if you've just pumped that breast.


Absolutely true. In the early days I would forget which side I'd used last, and I also did the block feeding instinctively (with occasional side-switching when it seemed appropriate). This resulted in having breasts that can be called on at ANY time. Either one. Sometimes I just don't *want* to have him on my left breast, so I'll do several hours on my right. Sometimes it's vice versa. I'm better holding him on my right side, so if I *have* to feed him in public (toddler nursing, for ME, is best done in private) I'll use the right breast. And even if he just had a HUGE nursing session on one side an hour ago, he'll still get milk within a minute from the same breast...and I bet that you can, too. :)

Just a tip ... if you're going to be pumping more than once over the day, just stick the entire Avent isis (connected to the bottle and all) in the fridge and don't worry about washing it and sterlizing it every time. Just do it once at the end of the day. Or better yet, get hubby to do it when he comes home. :p

Absolutely!

[Sebski]

Thank you! It's the most milk I've ever pumped... I'm so excited over it - love opening the fridge and seeing it sitting themere! :D

Lindzee I highly recommend doing the feed on one side, pump on the other. That's how I managed to get my 4oz in just 3 pumps between yesterday and today.

[Kanga]

How much fenugreek am i supposed to take? dd is 8 weeks old.

[NYN]

Sometimes I just don't *want* to have him on my left breast, so I'll do several hours on my right.
yep. this is why NIP was never really an issue for me. nursing on my left side came so naturally (holding her w/out a boppy that is!) so i would always go lefty when in public. like someone else said, i sometimes forget where i fed her off of last and at night i usually feed her off of right all night long since that is the side of the bed she sleeps on and we've never had any problems. i used to swear that i was lopsided (to this day, i produce more on the left than on the right) but it's not true (at least not now).

[abbytfox]

This is my first post over here, so thanks to everyone who answers my questions. This is kind of long...

My son is 1 month today. Obviously, with it being flu season and so wet and cold outside we haven't taken him out very much yet. Still, there are times when I want to go out to lunch with a friend or DH and I want to have dinner out. The problem is I am terrified to NIP.

Here is why...Elliott and I have learned a lot about bfing in the last month but I feel like we have such a long way to go. This is not everytime we nurse, but it happens a lot....When I am trying to latch him on he shoves his hands in his face and mouth, then gets upset (understandably so!), pushes away, sucks his finger to comfort himself, and finally latches on. Then while he is nursing he will eat really well for a little while and then pull off, stare into space or look at me for a minute or so (almost like he is done, but I know he's not) then look as if he is going to relatch but he puts his mouth on my breast and shakes his head back and forth (imagine someone shaking their head "no"), gets upset, puts hands in mouth, pushes me away and then finally latches on to eat for another while. Sometimes this cycle continues and sometimes it doesn't happen at all.

I am very concerned about this behavior in general (asked ped about it but he said it is normal and will get better as he gets older) and especially for NIP. I really don't want my breast just hanging out there as he decides if he is ready to latch. I have tried discreet nursing at home to practice and using a blanket doesn't work because I need to see what he is doing to help him latch and not using a blanket doesn't work because then everyone else would be able to see everything. I am more concerned about being respectful of other people than I am being self-concious.

Has anyone had a similar experience? How can I overcome my fear of NIP? THANKS!

[Marisa]

Liz -- you'll probably find that the fenugreek is most effective if you're taking at least 2 to 3 capsules, three times a day (i.e. with meals). You should start to notice that you smell a little differently, some say like maple syrup, Celina insists it's like celery salt. :)

abbytfox! Welcome! :)

Your baby's behavior does sound pretty normal, and will lessen as his nervous system and gross motor skills develop, along with him becoming more awake and aware of his surroundings. Right now he's kind of this flailing helpless mess a lot of the time, but you'll see so much change in him in the next couple of weeks. After the six-week spurt he'll be like a new baby. :)

Nursing in public is tricky, and I don't think I attempted it as early as four weeks, I was terribly shy about it (large breasts, needed a boppy for a long time, etc.) One thing that can help when you're out somewhere like a restaurant is to ask to be seated either in a booth (if there's room between the table and the seat, sometimes there's not) or at a table that's next to the wall. If you sit next to the wall, and feed DS on the side that's closest to the wall, you're minimizing your exposure to the rest of the patrons.

You'll also get to know which malls in your area have 'nursing' rooms or 'family' rooms, and which have lovely spacious lounges in the dept. store restrooms... :)

Finally, you might want to invest in a nursing shirt or two. I have seen some cute ones for not too expensive at Target recently. You can also wear a 'nursing-friendly' outfit like a t-shirt with a cardigan or button-down over it, and when you lift your shirt to nurse the outer layer will hang down and cover any exposed skin.

[magdesilver]

abbytfox- welcome! You will find a lot of support here. Have you heard of the bebe au lait (used to be called a hooter hider). I'd recommend getting one. It is like a blanket but is is specifically made for nursing and it has boning in the top so you can see the baby easily. Here's a pic:
http://www.bebeaulait.com/gallery/6.jpg

You can find out more info at http://www.bebeaulait.com . I haven't used one- my DD does fine NIP without a cover- but I have read some great reviews of this product and I think that if it makes you feel more comfy about NIP, then it's $$ well spent! Getting out after being cooped up for a long time does wonders for your spirit! Take care!

[mollyeilis]

abbytfox, I nursed in public a few times early on, but ONLY because I had my family there. I went to lunch with my dad, stepmom, and half-sis, Eamon got hungry and I was actually totally willing to go stand in the restroom to get him latched on (and then come out), but my father freaked out on me. Actually said "NO daughter of mine is going to nurse in the bathroom!"

Yay dad. :D

So he made it possible...we were in a corner curvy booth at Denny's, and he grabbed a chair for me, put it so my back would be to the room and I'd face them (the booth wasn't working b/c I was still so hefty), and sort of created the space for me to latch E on (the tricky part for us at first).

So be sure the people you are honoring by lunching with them are as nice as my dad was. :)

Also, I never had much of a problem nursing in the car...it was just easier for me, when not around my dad LOL. More private, too.

Nordstrom, if you have one around, has lovely mother's lounges that aren't always directly connected to the actual bathroom.

If you're not comfy doing it yet, don't force yourself. Let yourself get comfy nursing at home, and something I did was sort of like NIP bootcamp. :D I trained for it LOL. Started being more dressed at home while nursing, put on nursing shirts, tried to get it so I could nurse at home relatively covered. Once I was better at that, it was better NIP. If you're topless at home and both of you are used to that, then the first time NIP is going to be a bit difficult! :D



Wanted to mention that yesterday I decided to pump while nursing. Hadn't been able to do that before, thanks to mondo-boobs and lack of left-hand coordination. I was going to an appt to have some moles removed, and hubby was home (I am SO lucky that he works over the weekend so we can do appointments and such during the week with his help!) so we wanted them to stay home. Even though he's older and can have solids if he's hungry, I thought it might be fun for him to have some cold milk. So I was going to pump but he was transfixed and wanted to be part of it, so I let him nurse while pumping.

Last time I pumped, about a week ago, it took half an hour to just barely coat the bottom of a 4 oz Avent bottle. When I started this time there was a tiny droplet but that's it...then he started nursing on my right, and *instantly* milk came shooting out into the pump! Amazing. Inside maybe 7 minutes I got 2 oz...I'm a believer now, let me tell you! Then he was done with the right, wanted "other side", so I switched, and milk came shooting out the just-nursed side, as he gulped from the just-pumped left. Crazy!

[Lindzee82]

Sarah - I know that I don't need a huge freezer stash, but I would like to at least have a little something so that if I need to go out with Matthew that I can. I try not to leave him, but sometimes I don't have a choice, like when I have an appointment. And when he does take a bottle, he drinks more than 3oz. Usually around 5-6oz. However, I have learned that I probably shouldn't be letting him drink this much. Thanks for your help.

magdesilver - Thanks. I do try to do my pumping in the morning when I do pump. I notice that that is when my supply is at its peak. Thanks for the encouragement that things will get better. I am just such an impatient person. I am trying to enjoy this time as I know it passes quickly. I just wish I was more comfortable with everything.

jp'swife - On Sunday I decided that I wanted to go grocery shopping by myself. So, I fed Matthew at 11:30 and left thinking that I would have at least 2 hours until I needed to get back. Well, when I got back at 1, I found that Matthew had gotten hungry and he ate 5oz from my DH and then wanted to eat again at 1 when I got back. Same thing happened yesterday. I fed Matthew at 12 before my appointment and when I got back at 2:30 he had already eaten 3.5oz from my mom. So feeding before I go does not seem to solve the problem. Maybe once he gets a little older?

mollyeilis - Yes, Matthew is still young. Normally I would take Matthew to the appointment with me. However, this was not an appointment that that was possible and it was an hour long appointment and I wouldn't feel that it would be fair for Matthew or my mom to have to sit in a waiting room for that long of a period of time. I do try to stay at home as much as I can which is pretty much 24/7 or at least take Matthew with me if I go somewhere, because like you said this is a very important time. Thanks for the info and sharing your experience with having enough milk shortly after pumping or feeding. I think I will get more brave as time goes on. And, I am sooo excited about only having to wash my pump once a day. I am looking forward to pumping multiple times tomorrow...if Matthew cooperates, that is.

Sebski - Thanks! And yay for pumping 4oz. That is great!

[Kanga]

Thanks Marisa - now, when I do notice an increase in supply, do I stop taking the fenugreek, or do I need to continue it indefinately?

[HGMorgann]

NIPtipMy daughter is a horrible NIP-er - she gets so distracted, looks around, and wont eat and then is cranky because she is hungry AND distracted...so we learned that Dressing Rooms are great! :-)

[wildcat]

I want to start by saying I love this thread and have been reading it since I was pregnant. So, if this has been tackled before, I'm sorry, blame it on "new mommy brain";).

Here's my situation. My DD is 12 weeks old and we've been BF without a problem at all since Day 1 (and I count my blessings for that). Since 2 weeks, I've been pumping 1 feeding a day and letting DH give her a bottle of EBM since I would be returning to work (she's been taking 5oz recently). Then I also pumped before I went to bed to increase my freezer stash (I have just over 100oz at last count last week). I have a PIS Advanced and usually get 3-5 oz within a few minutes. My DD has always been satisfied after eating. Her routine for the last month or so is 6 feedings a day (8, 11, 2, 5, 7, 9).

Cut to this week and I started back to work on Monday (just 2 days this week). I've been waking her to feed her at 6am (she STTN) before I go to work. My DH has stayed home with her this week and given her bottles of EBM. Since we have no idea how much she is eating when BF, DH has been giving her 4oz bottles (at 8, 11, 2 and I'm pumping then at work) and then I'm BF at 5, 7, and 9. However, she hasn't been satisfied after the 5 or 7 feeding and we've had to give her an extra couple oz's of EBM after both. I wouldn't think she'd need it as she's getting an extra feeding at 6am. Long story short is...do you think the problem is we need to up her bottles during the day? If so, I don't think I'm pumping enough to keep up with her (as I'm averaging 4oz a pump plus my extra 4 at night) and I really don't want to supplement with formula and I want to BF until 1 year. So, how much should I be feeding her and how do I increase my supply if I need to feed her more? If I pump more often at work will that work or will it just make it worse at night and I'll have even less? Should I start with the fenugreek and/or oatmeal?

I know this is long, but I'm not really sure what the problem is, so not entirely sure what my questions are!! TIA!!

[majorgal]

Lindzee: I agree with the others that if you keep at pumping as often as you can, you will start to see an increase. This should also happen after you go through the next growth spurt.

That being said, I totally understand your desire to have a bit more of a stash. Whether or not you NEED to pump because you are going back to work, and no matter how much you love your child, there are times you need to or want to have some time alone/away. We started introducing the bottle at 3 weeks with my DS and it took 4 weeks before he would take it. At about Week 5, I started to crave a bit of time when I could get out and have some alone time. It didn't mean I didn't adore my DS, but I needed to have some time away.

When he refused the bottle, it meant I really had no choice but to be there at all times so he could feed on demand. I found this extremely difficult at times. Maybe I am a 'bad mother' for admitting that I needed some time away from my son, but so be it.

Bottom line? Use some of the great suggestions made here already to try to squeeze out a bit more when pumping (no pun intended). And, try to relax when pumping. It will help a lot. I have to pump twice a day at work and I always produce more when I am as relaxed as I can be.

[pgbg]

[QUOTE=Sebski] I don't know if I can combine all these pumpings into 1 bottle. I know that whatever I pump today can be combined, but can I add in whatever I pumped from yesterday? None of it's frozen...

I combine pumpings all the time, but always combine cold with cold and warm with warm (ie. I'll combine the fresh stuff into one bottle, but I won't combine it with whatever's in the fridge until it's cooled off in the fridge for a while). I probably read that somewhere on this board (b/c that's where I've learned all I know about BFing!) but I don't know if it's a set rule. Hopefully someone who knows more will chime in and enlighten us both!! :)

[newyorkgirl]

but always combine cold with cold and warm with warm Really? I've always just combined and popped it into the fridge. I don't know if that's bad, but DS hasn't complained (and he is a *very* picky eater - won't eat frozen EBM) and the BM hasn't gone bad. I suppose if you were keeping it for a few days in the fridge you might not want to do that, but I usually use it within three days.

[Marisa]

Liz -- you can start to 'wean' yourself off the fenugreek once you start seeing results, lowering your # of capsules day to day, but don't forget to keep doing things like drinking tons of water, to keep yourself optimally hydrated. You don't want to let all your hard work go to waste, now! :)

wildcat -- It actually sounds like your DD is doing some cluster feeding in the evenings when you come home. It may not be that she's "not satisfied" in the evenings, it's actually quite common for babies her age to go through a stage where they nurse for hours at night without coming up for air. I can't really explain it, but my DS did it too, and I'm a SAHM. Thank goodness for Tivo and comfy couches!!

Anyway, it's a normal stage that most BF babies seem to go through at one point or another. Couple that with the fact that you've just gone back to work this past week, and I'd say she's got it figured out that more nursing = more one-on-one mommy time. :)

4 oz. a pump is great, and 4 oz. bottles sound right to me for a 3-month old, that's what my DS was taking at that stage. If you'd like to, and it's feasible with your schedule, why not add an extra pump in? Maybe at 8, 10:30, 1, 3:30? That way you'll have an hour and a half to 'recharge' before seeing DD (more than enough time -- you'd typically have a full feeding built back up in reserves after a half hour or so). And having a little 'extra' on hand will only help you feel a little more confident about your goal of 1 year of BFing. :)

[wildcat]

marisa - Thanks so much for the quick response! Actually, for the first month or two, DD was definitely a cluster feeder in the evenings...she'd eat every hour from 6-10. However, we'd gotten off that schedule over a month ago, but it does sound like she's going back to it now that you've mentioned it;). My problem is that she'll nurse for 3 mins or so and then bob on and off crying and I definitely feel "empty". Should I just have DH give her a bottle of EBM if she's doing that? (that's what we've done this week). I definitely think I will add in an extra pump or two during the day as you're right, it will make me feel better. And OMG - only 30mins to build back up? I always feel like it takes several hours?! I'm also wondering if she's starting to hit a 3 month growth spurt or something (as she always cluster feeds for a few days during those)?

Now - a second question;). Should I freeze what I pump each day and start with the oldest milk first (from the freezer stash) to give to DD each day? Or should I just refrigerate todays milk to giver her tomorrow and only use the freezer stash when needed (which means some will go bad)? Or maybe 1 bottle of frozen each day and the rest fresh from the day before? I know any of them is probably fine, but is there a way that is better for DD than another?

[Marisa]

wait, hang on, let me get this smilie in here -- http://www.mothering.com/discussions/images/smilies/duh.gif

Yes, wildcat, she is DEFINITELY right on schedule for her 3-month growth spurt! :) So there's that, plus the going back to work, plus the fact that it could just be some inexplicable thing that most babies do... Gee, does that help clear it up for you? :)

If you feel like you want DH to give her another bottle in the evening, definitely pump at least a little at that time, even if you feel spent. It's signalling your body to make more, and that's what the crazy round-the-clock nursing during a growth spurt is all about.

Boy, now that you pointed out that she's three months that really makes sense. And since she's such a good sleeper at night, she needs to really get in her nursing and stimulating new supply growth in only a short window of time there! :)


As for the freezer stash, the milk is good in the fridge for up to a week, typically, so you don't have to make the decision right away to freeze. It's always nice to use fresh milk when possible, since freezing does kill a few of those antibodies and live cells. But in the interest of using your freezer stash in a timely way, rotating in one bottle of frozen sounds like a good compromise. :)

[ktdelsur]

Cross posted in formula feeding...

My DS is 2.5 weeks old, and while I had hoped to exclusively BF, he was jaundiced and had to be supplemented w/ 2 oz of formula. So, I was feeding him for at least 20-30 mins per breast, then feeding him 2 oz of formula at every feeding (it took 5 days for my milk to come in, and even then...it has not been enough to fill him up...not a huge supply and we don't know why). I have an electric pump and am only able to get maybe 1/2 ounce at each sitting (This is combined total w/ both breasts.) but I'm trying to pump as much as I can.

I've tried it all, but it seems we will be going the mostly-formula route, with the occassional pumped bottle of BM. Doc recently said we can quit supplementing, but he is so used to that formula, he screams bloody murder after BFing when he doesn't get it, and would nurse all day long if I'd let him (no latch problems, but the frequency has left me with really sore, cracked nipples, and yes, I use lansinoh).

We tried "weaning" him a half ounce at a time off the formula, but we're convinced that my milk is just not enough to satisfy him. I don't know quite what to do.

DS is currently 9lbs, 2 oz (8lbs11oz at birth) and is getting 2 oz of formula every 2-3 hours. Since I've stopped BF'ing him every single feeding, it seems he is hungrier and from what I've read, we should maybe be giving him 3 oz instead? He takes the formula like a starving man, and then maybe every other feeding, he basically screams until the next feeding and sucking his fists, etc, like he is still hungry. This screaming-in-between feedings only started today, and we are sure nothing else is wrong with him. Is 3 oz per feeding too much for an almost 3-week-old? It is going to take me at least 2-3 days of pumping, it seems, to get 3 oz of EBM!

[mollyeilis]

"she'll nurse for 3 mins or so and then bob on and off crying and I definitely feel "empty"."

FWIW, when DS would do that, if I let him (and I usually did b/c I had absolutely nothing else to do in the early days), it would shortly result in a letdown. YES it's not pleasant, YES it's really super-annoying...but if you find it results in letdowns for you two, it would be worth it, yes?

****
ktdelsur...have you consulted with a great LC? Have you called your local La Leche League people? If not, DO DO DO! If there's one thing I've figured out, it's that MDs aren't breastfeeding experts! They barely take nutrition classes, let alone specific infant nutrition classes, let alone breastfeeding classes! So for info on feeding, *definitely* got to the experts first.

Has anyone suggested weighing baby before and after every milk meal? You can rent scales that are super-specific, but I've seen a Salter infant/toddler scale at bedbath and beyond's website that *I think* measuires in 2 ounce increments. It might not be perfect, but perhaps SEEING how much baby is taking in while nursing might be useful for you?

I wonder if just continuing to nurse nurse nurse would really help you?

Ooh, another idea since you guys are mystified...does baby have a bit of tongue-tie? Can baby stick his tongue out? When he does, does it indent into a heart shape? Since you say you have no latch problems perhaps that;'s not likely, but I was just reminded on another board I'm on that mysterious problems can often be attributed to tongue-tie. IF so, clipping the frenulum is a quick and easy way to take care of it!

But I'd say nurse nurse nurse and nurse somemore....what a bummer the docs made you give formula with the jaundice...I know of other docs who wouldn't have suggested that...man, it's all luck of the pediatrician draw, isn't it? *hugs*...

By the way, we had no jaundice or anything, but it took 5 full days until my colostrum changed over to milk, too. Lucky? for us I was kicked out of the hopsital a mere 42 *hours* after he arrived, so I had no one breathing down my neck about the milk. I just nursed him every time he fussed, moved, or even breathed loudly, and things got themselves worked out.

It's still VERY early days for you, yet, so don't think you're absolutely locked into the formula...one of the women that frequents my journal did formula/EBM/combo for a matter of weeks? months? until he was mature enough to really nurse, and then she could dump the formula! Early days!

[jp'swife]

Lindsey- Ok, I gottcha now!
Alex was the same way at that age. He would drink from the bottle while I was gone and when I came home (like right when he would see me), he would get fussy again and want to nurse. Sometimes he still gets that way if we are out for the day and he just downed a bottle.....we get home and he wants to nurse again right away. I'm thinking it's a comfort for him, something calming and something he knows.

[JillyB]

wildcat - I think you're probably right-on with this thinking...
I'm also wondering if she's starting to hit a 3 month growth spurt or something (as she always cluster feeds for a few days during those)?


When I first came back to work (9 weeks old), we were giving DS 4 oz. bottles. I pump 3X a day here at work (9, 12, and 3). Whatever I get from those 3 sessions, I divide equally between 3 bottles. As I became more "comfortable" with pumping here at work (and as DS grew), my output gradually increased. DS is now 4 months old, and he takes three 5 1/2 - 6 oz. bottles at daycare. I just "trust" that my body is producing the right amounts for his needs, when I'm pumping. I try not to "overthink" the whole process (if that makes any sense at all). There are still evenings where all he wants to do is nurse, so that's what I let him do! And now, he's the king of popping off after a few minutes to smile really big at Mommy and "talk". :) I just try to remain as patient as possible, because he usually realizes after a few minutes of "chit-chat" with Mommy...that he's supposed to be eating! ;) So, he hops back on and finishes up.

And I know that everyone is different...but for me, I have the best "output" at work when I have some oatmeal for breakfast, and I try to drink TONS of water throughout the day. HTH!

[Dreshny]

ktdelsur: Don't panic--you're okay. Like Molly said, it's still very, very early in your baby's life. I have a friend whose baby started out on both BM and formula for the same reason, and now the baby is exclusively BF. But it can take some time...

I definitely second Molly's suggestion to call a good LC or LLL or both. And if you don't find someone you connect with at first, call someone else. Each person may have different advice.

And just for some reassurance--your baby IS hungry all the time and would suck all day because he's going through his 3-week growth spurt. Some babies DO stay on the breast all day and night during this time.

But please call someone for help before everyone goes away for Christmas...

[lorialys]

ktdelsur I totally could have written your post!! My son didn't have jaundice, but he did lose a lot of weight before my milk came in (5 days after birth as well). Our pediatrician convinced us to supplement the night before my milk came in, doing just what you were advised. We did, because we were afraid of him losing too much weight and having to be hospitalized! The next morning my milk had come in, but I never got engorged or really felt like I had a huge supply. We went to see a LC at the hospital, and she did the weigh and feed and in 2 minutes he got 40 ccs out of one side! So he was getting enough. Those first few weeks were hard for us though, he didn't regain his birth weight until 3 and a half weeks so our pediatrician kept advising us to not be afraid of supplementing. I resisted the urge hard, and there were so many moments I wanted to give up. Fast forward to today at almost 10 weeks, and he's thriving and I'm still exclusively breastfeeding.

The important thing for you to do right now is to breastfeed him as much as you possibly can. Grab a pillow, some food, a big bottle of water, and some movies and just hang out on the couch and feed him as long as he wants. Make sure to keep him awake while he's eating, they love to fall asleep at this stage.

Your supply will increase to meet his demand, but only if you give him the chance! Your body is always making more milk, so even if he starts to get frustrated because not much is coming out, if you let him keep sucking, he will get more. I found that my supply increased greatly after the 3 week and 6 week growth spurts. I even began to feel engorged if I went several hours between feedings, and while it wasn't a pleasant feeling, it made me so happy in a weird way!!

About pumping, keep doing it. Your body will eventually get better at letting down to the pump. For awhile there in the early weeks, I was pumping halfway between every feeding for a few days just to get enough for one bottle feeding!! I was so jealous of all those ladies who can get several ounces in a few minutes. It took me so much longer. But after the early growth spurts, and continued use of the pump, I found that I can pump a lot more in one sitting than I ever could before. At first I was lucky if I could get one letdown with the pump in 10-15 minutes of pumping. Now, I can get 2 or 3 in that time. My body just got used to the pump.

About the sore and cracked nipples, I had those too, they are horrible!! My son had a great latch as well, it was just all that sucking in the early days that caused them to get sore and cracked. Not to mention his very tight jaw, which still causes us problems from time to time. My LC had my OB prescribe triple nipple cream, which I think is something you can make at home (our local hospital pharmacy will make it for me). I know someone on here has posted the "recipe" before. That stuff worked wonders for me, where lansinoh never helped that much. After a week or two of religiously applying it after every feeding, my nipples healed.

I know it's hard, but hang in there!! You CAN do this.

[wildcat]

Quick question about oatmeal...do you just eat the normal microwave packet kind? Just once a day is enough to help? And is it true that more water increases supply? I thought I read somewhere that it was a myth? TIA!!

[Marisa]

Any oatmeal is fine -- even oatmeal cereal bars or cookies! :)

You should drink to thirst, try to get a good number of oz. per day, but don't drown yourself. Being well-hydrated does help, but pouring water into your body by the gallon doesn't necessarily equal more milk production. :)

[Sebski]

Any oatmeal is fine -- even oatmeal cereal bars or cookies!

The LC at my prenatal BF class said that instant oatmeal won't increase supply - it has to be the traditional oats in a canister type. Is this not true? I despise oatmeal but have been killing myself with eating at least a bowl a day to keep my supply up.

[Kanga]

ktdelsur - I second the weigh and feed. I know my my local hosptial does this as part of their bfing "club" (A group of women get together 2x a week with a lc at the hospital to just chit chat and you can do a weigh and feed as well if you want) It will end the whole "is he really getting enough to eat"

Also, drink lots of water. I know it's been said a hundred times before, but it is really important. I drank tons of water and had a huge supply in the hospital and rarely any caffeine (the nurses would bring you water, but you had to walk and get pop, etc yourself) When I got home, I reverted to my old ways of rarely drinking water -1 glass a day, if that- and drinking 1 can of pepsi a day. It made a huge dent in my supply, and I'm paying for it now and trying to rebuild it.

Quick question about oatmeal...do you just eat the normal microwave packet kind? Just once a day is enough to help? And is it true that more water increases supply? I thought I read somewhere that it was a myth? TIA!!

instant oatmeal worked fine for me. Not huge results but definately noticeable.

[majorgal]

I second the instant oatmeal. I have been fortunate to never have supply issues, but when I up my [instant] oatmeal intake my supply does go up a bit.

[moderngal]

is lexapro safe to take while nursing?

[Marisa]

mg - in reading Dr. Hale's forums on Lexapro, he states that it may cause sedation and somnolence in younger infants, but does not believe that there would such an effect in an older infant (8 months was the age he was discussing). He offers Zoloft as an alternative, but in August 2005 referenced an unpublished study that seems to show that Lexapro does not transfer to milk in large amounts.

[moderngal]

Marisa- my DS is 7 months now- so likely wouldn't have the somnolence issue, right? Given what you read, would you take it if you felt like it would help you?

[Marisa]

I think I would... in the lowest effective dose possible, of course. Several on Dr. Hale's board mentioned 10mg. The fact that your baby is no longer a newborn, coupled with increasing newer evidence of low milk transfer, seems reassuring.

[LexyLou]

Ok, DD is 12 weeks old and exclusively BF. I do pump and give her a bottle occasionally. It used to be 4 oz bottles but she still seemed hungry so I increased them to 4 1/2 but she still seemed hungry so I increased them to 5. She still seems hungry but 5 oz seems like a lot for a 12 week old. She's fed on demand which is usually every 3-3 1/2 hours and I have a great supply so I know she's getting enough from me...but is 5 oz right?

Last night DD went down for the night at 10 pm. I nursed her at 9:45 pm. I had also nursed her at 8 pm and 5:30 pm. She woke up at 5 am (7 hours of sleep) and DH gave her a bottle of EBM. He gave her 6 oz and she took it all and he said she was still hungry! He didn't have any more to give her plus he thought 6 oz was a lot. She didn't spit any of it up....so is 6 oz ok? She eats at least 7 times a day and weighs only 12 lbs!

[lil_nance]

Lexylou Sounds like she's cluster feeding before bed which is very normal. DS is now 5mo he will still sometimes cluster feed and doesn't go more than 7-8hr at night. As far as the bottles go, I think 4-6 is ok. Babies tend to know what they want. I think it's fairly hard to overfeed a BF baby. 12lb is nice and healthy. Good job!

[Candy]

Lex, I used to have a similiar problem with Maya. One time my step mom insisted she was still hungry after 9 ounces. :rolleyes: I called my LLL leader to talk to her about it since I was so worried.
Is your DD a big comfort nurser? Maya is, so she just wanted to suck like she was used to doing after eating.

I wouldn't worry about her wanting 5-6 ounces though. Every baby is different, but that sounds about right.

[Marisa]

Alexis, she's right on schedule for her three month growth spurt. Sounds just about right to me! :) Over the next couple of days she may want to eat a lot more than usual, and will likely taper back off a little after that. She still may take larger bottles at that point, though -- just follow your instincts on that one. It sounds like you're increasing gradually, which is great. :)

[Sarah]

Yo, Marisa! There's no 4 month spurt, right? L is eating every 3 hours, day and night. No cluster feeding, no longer at the breast each time, just more frequent. She had been doing 8-9 hours at night. Think it's just her cold, teething, or random being a baby? Or could it be a late GS?

[Marisa]

No official 4 month spurt, but every baby is different and it certainly could be a small one. It also could be the start of teething, she's around the right age for it to begin, and Joey ALWAYS woke more frequently at night when teeth were moving and emerging....

[Sarah]

No official 4 month spurt, but every baby is different and it certainly could be a small one. It also could be the start of teething, she's around the right age for it to begin, and Joey ALWAYS woke more frequently at night when teeth were moving and emerging....
Don't tell me that! Teething is so unacceptable! S didn't get teeth until she was a year old!

[krbb]

I was just wondering for those that have experienced thrush how long it took to feel better? I was given the cream for myself and the drops for DS to take for the next two weeks. I am also doing the vinegar rinse. It doesn't seem to affect him any, but at least I know now what has been causing the pain in my breasts and the tender nipples.

[majorgal]

Kristine: DS and I only had a minor case, so I started to feel relief about a day into treatment. Good luck...

[abbytfox]

Thanks Marisa, magdesilver, mollyeilis, and HGMorgann for your input on NIP! All the ideas are really helpful and I have already scoped out my local Nordstrom's so I know I can go there if I am at the mall. I think that I will start with that and then move on to restaurants. That is my biggest concern...that he will get really hungry while we are eating out and I will "have to" NIP while in a restaurant. I also have decided that my biggest fear isn't my own embarassment or modesty (because I think after having a baby and nursing you kind of lose any modesty and adopt an anything goes attitude!) but I am afraid of what other people will think or feel. I know I just need to get over it, but that is my concern rational or not. Have your experiences with NIP been mostly positive? Knowing that others have had good experiences may help to set my mind at ease. THANKS!

[prudies]

abby - You're in the bay area? I don't know where you live exactly, but I NIP'ed all over SF, the east bay and some parts of the south bay with no problem!

[alienhost]

I'm sure this has been addressed before but I can't find it easily. I know a lot of sources say BM in a deep freeze can last 6-12 months. How long would you continue to use it?

I have BM from mid-May that is still in my basement chest freezer. It still seems "OK" but I really don't know how to tell if it has gone bad. I just use it mainly for making the cereal and an occassional bottle.

Any thoughts? Thanks!

[Marisa]

alien - as long as you are confident that it has been stored well, I think that the "6 months" guideline is somewhat conservative.

There are two things to be concerned about -- the longer its been frozen, the more live cells are damaged (since you are giving it only occasionally this is barely an issue with you guys)... and of course the possibility of 'spoiling'. If you do not notice a funky smell or texture when you thaw, and your baby does not react to it, then it is likely fine.

[lorialys]

I have never had any problems with NIP. I thought I might be a little weirded out by it when I was pregnant, but I never have felt weird about it. Of course, I never considered myself a very modest person anyways. I've nursed in front of people in restaurants, a bowling alley, at people's houses, and even at my husband's company christmas party! I always use a blanket to cover me when I'm getting the boob out, but I usually take it away after he latches on because he hates having his head covered.

I have never had anyone say anything negative or even give me weird looks! It has always been a positive experience for me. Even if I had a negative comment, I probably would brush it off because I don't really care what people think about it. Of course, this may change as my son gets older because of the social stigma against extended breastfeeding, but we'll see.

[lady1297]

Of course, this may change as my son gets older because of the social stigma against extended breastfeeding, but we'll see.

I thought this way too. But I still nurse my 16 month old when needed in public. However, we do try to find quiet areas, just to keep him more focused. Not because I care what others think. Of course, it isn't near as often either. Just if we are out for the whole day and he need s a nap, anymore. But that's cause he prefers a sippy cup on the go!

[albuquerque]

We've been fighting this out lately and it isn't easy. It began for my 6 week pp ob/gyn checkup last Thursday. We left DD (7 weeks today) with my mom, and the freaking doctor had us waiting an hour and a half in the waiting room. We were gone about 2.5-3 hrs total with the drive both ways and the time actually taken by the appt (which I was dreading and turned out to be totally no big deal, btw), and my mom said DD screamed the entire time we were gone. Not because of the stomach pains, but because she was hungry and absolutely refused to have anything to do with the bottle. So, we've been trying to get her to suck some on the bottle every other day or so since. We win some of the willpower wars, but then, she wins some too. Today, in between screaming fits and periods of laughing at me, she swallowed maybe 1 and 3/4 ounces. It breaks my heart to throw the rest away (we started with 2.5 oz of EBM), but I just don't have the energy to fight her on it anymore today. So, we'll be back to the Bottle Battle tomorrow. So far we've tried having both me and also everyone else try to give it to her, in every conceivable position/location (baby seat, changing table, flat on knees, cradled in our arms, up on our shoulders, etc etc etc...). If anyone has any hints on how to get her to take it, I'd certainly be grateful!

[1_mommy]

albuquerque no suggestions for you, but to let you know we are going through the same exact thing. ds is now 11 weeks old, and still refuses a bottle, and i go back to work next monday. totally stressing about this. we always just keep trying the bottle like you are, and we have tried about every nipple/bottle out there. dh actually got ds to take a bottle 1 day last week, only took 1.5 oz, but atleast he took something.

[HGMorgann]

Around 4 mo. my DD would take a sippy, but until then, we really never were able to give her a bottle. We had the most success with Playtex nursers on a faster flow (she was/is an efficient nurser). She just prefers momma to feed her. She would take a bottle from me, but no one else. Yeh, not very helpful here, but I understand the battle of bottles. DD won.

[nancy drew]

abbyHave your experiences with NIP been mostly positive? Knowing that others have had good experiences may help to set my mind at ease. THANKS!
my NIP experiences have been 99.9% positive. to share a few... one time we were heading downtown on the subway, and i was nursing dd in the sling. as we entered the station (i was walking while nursing her) a woman came up to me and said how wonderful it was to see someone bfing in public. she said it made her nostalgic about her own children and she wished more people would feel comfortable enough to nurse in public so it wouldnt be so stigmatized. many many times people have commented later on (After i nursed) that they thought the baby was sleeping, and had no idea i was nursing the whole time. my only semi-negative experience was at a kinda fancy restaurant, where i sat in a half booth) booth on one side, chair on the other) with dd (6 months at the time) in my lap nursing the entire meal. some older guy kept leaning over and staring at me. i know for sure he couldnt see anything, dd was pretty much under the table in my lap and although i wasnt wearing a blanket i was being discreet, and i think he was just trying to figure out what was going on. he wasnt giving me "disapproving" looks, just interested looks. but it made me slightly uncomfortable. however, that was ONE in all of my experiences, and i have nursed for almost 2 years.

[mollyeilis]

albuqurque, I don't know how to make a baby eat from anything other than the "source". We only tried when DS was 6 months old, and he did it and was fine. But when I read of this specific problem, all I can think is "time for a new OB/GYN". The next thing I think is..."well this was her 6 week appointment, there aren't likely to be many more". I mean, I only went to a 2 week appointment, he had no idea why I was there (he insisted I make the appointment the last time I saw him), and no one could convince me that anything useful was going to happen at the 6 week appointment so I never went.

But really, for us, we simply have adjusted our schedule so that even thinking of traffic, I'd never be away from Eamon very long. Not everyone wants to do that, but for me I just feel weird if gone too long, and don't want him to get used to me being gone a long time. :o


Nancydrew...FWIW, my hubby always wanted to stare at women NIP. He just thinks it's SOOOOO cool, and he wants to look and smile and be encouraging. But I've made him stop because he looks *weird* when he's doing it. He can't get the sort of smile he's intending, and he looks like he's leering or smirking or being weird. So maybe that guy was like my husband. :)


When NIP I rarely look up. So I don't see anyone's reaction, really.

[HGMorgann]

I have never had a bad NIP experience on behalf of others. I have had bad NIP experiences because I was either self-conscience or DD was too distracted to latch. Most of the time I don't get any looks or comments. The comments I have gotten all have been positive. The most suprising one was an older woman (70-ish) who said "You don't see too much of that anymore. Thats too bad" and told me her nursing stories. I was proud that she tried to nurse against the advice of doctors! It was sad how that generation was led to believe bottles were better. I wonder what our grandkids will look back and say "I cant believe they thought XXX was beneficial back then." Well, I have my ideas...but anyways.

[NYN]

i do not have any negative experiences NIP and i nurse everywhere. if it is a place that i feel is a little uncomfortable, i do what mollyellis said, i just look at DD and not up at all. NIP has been surprisingly easy for me and that is with a very large chest and, now that she is older, a very curious and nosy baby.

at family functions i have to endure a lot of "oh, you're spoiling her/oh, i used to just give her water to calm her down/oh, in my day women would only do that around women" etc. but that is just ignorance so i have learned to ignore it.

i once had no choice but to nurse her in a restaurant (something i swore i would never do). it was either nurse her or have her scream. i was in a very public area of the restaurant but i did it. the only person who saw was the [male] waitor who just kept telling me to take my time. it was very nice.

albuquerque: newyorkgirl has dealt w/ bottle strikes in the past and her DS now takes a bottle once a day. i would PM her if you want an answer fast.

[1_mommy]

ds is 11 weeks old and has really started biting. this HURTS!
he will be nursing away, and then bite down really hard, i break his latch and say no biting (like he understands at 11 weeks) and then put him back to the breast, just for him to repeat this over and over.
he is lucky he refuses he bottle right now, or i think i would seriously be considering a bottle for him right now.
someone help me what this may be and how to stop the biting. he is killing my nipples!

[HGMorgann]

1mommy It could be teething. But most babies dont get teeth that early - but some do - my sister got hers at 2 mo and unfortunately, my mom weaned due to biting. But anyways, I am wondering if his latch is deep enough. He shouldnt really be able to bite the nipple if his latch is deep. When DD starts to slip off due to bad latch, she will sometimes end up biting my nipple. She has always been a lazy latcher and I have to be diligent to make sure she has enough breast tissue in her mouth. This might not be your problem, but is normally our problem for biting.


Oh, if it is teething, try numbing his gums before he nurses by offering a cold frozen washcloth. That was the wise advice Marisa gave me when we had biting issues. I know its hard!

[1_mommy]

1mommy It could be teething. But most babies dont get teeth that early - but some do - my sister got hers at 2 mo and unfortunately, my mom weaned due to biting. But anyways, I am wondering if his latch is deep enough. He shouldnt really be able to bite the nipple if his latch is deep. When DD starts to slip off due to bad latch, she will sometimes end up biting my nipple. She has always been a lazy latcher and I have to be diligent to make sure she has enough breast tissue in her mouth. This might not be your problem, but is normally our problem for biting.


sometimes i wonder about his latch. he does get pretty lazy, i wonder if this is his problem. no i am really going to pay attention to it.
thank you!

[NYN]

ds is 11 weeks old and has really started biting. this HURTS!
he will be nursing away, and then bite down really hard, i break his latch and say no biting (like he understands at 11 weeks) and then put him back to the breast, just for him to repeat this over and over.
he is lucky he refuses he bottle right now, or i think i would seriously be considering a bottle for him right now.
someone help me what this may be and how to stop the biting. he is killing my nipples!
my dd was doing this for a while. i would keep my finger ready and break the latch as soon as she did it. it was so frustrating. i'm not sure why she was doing it but she eventually stopped. she was a little older than your DS though - old enough to know cause and effect at that point. my DD was not teething - i don't know why she did it. she would kind of pause while nursing and look at me and then chomp. i was afraid to nurse for a while but i am too lazy to bottlefeed so i kept w/ it. like i said, it only lasted a few days. hope it goes the same way for you. oh, and i agree that you should work on his latch...we both get comfortable and then a little lazy w/ the latch. good luck.

[LeslieR]

I know this probably varies for everyone, but how much does AF affect your supply? The witch came back to visit on Christmas Eve after 13 beautiful months without her presence.:mad: Since she's been around, I feel like I haven't been full in between feedings at all-specifically at night when I would feel most full. Luke isn't acting like he's not getting enough, so I'm not terribly worried. More curious than anything. I read something on kellymom.com about supply going down during ovulation, so maybe I'm just imagining a dip in supply now? Will this (meaning a dip in supply) happen every month? I'm (probably foolishly) hoping that this is just a one time thing and she'll be gone again next month.:p

[Marisa]

Leslie, I usually have that same "not-so-full" feeling for a day or two beforehand, it's like my signal that AF is on her way. I'm back to 'normal' within a couple of days though.

One thing that might be happening is that the return of AF may be coinciding with your supply regulating a little -- happens to many women in that 3-6 month timeframe. Where you might have had 'extra' milk before, and felt full between feedings, your body is starting to get to know your baby and his feeding pattern, and is making more like the 'right' amount of milk without as much extra.

[LeslieR]

Thanks Marisa! That makes sense. It will be interesting to see what happens once AF is gone.

[Dreshny]

Marisa, quick question: do you have any idea why in the last few weeks I've been soaking everything with milk? You just mentioned to Leslie that supply regulates between 3-6 months, and I'm pretty sure mine did, but suddenly (in the last 3-4 weeks) I have SO much milk, that I'm drenching DS, myself, the bed, etc. Seriously, I haven't soaked nursing pads like this since the first few weeks.

I don't think it's an issue of Asher nursing less frequently, because if he was, I'd have less milk, not more, right? I suppose I should stop eating granola in the morning, but it's not like I do it everyday...

[Marisa]

Roseanne, did he have his big growth spurt at 6 months just recently? It may be that he really upped your supply again by nursing so frequently then, and now that he's tapered back off again it will need to settle back down.

Sounds like he's a strong nurser!! :)

[SiValleySteph]

Have your experiences with NIP been mostly positive? Knowing that others have had good experiences may help to set my mind at ease. THANKS!

I'm in the SF Bay Area as well and I have NEVER had a negative experience with nursing in public. Oh, there was one guy scowling on a flight from Atlanta to Fort Wayne, IN... but that was it.

I have nursed my son all over the place. We are always out and about, so I just nurse whenever, wherever. I figure people would much rather have a nursing baby than a crying baby!!

My son is now 15 months old and I just nursed him at a restaurant Tuesday (Buca di Beppo). We don't NIP as much anymore because he does not nurse much during daytime.

Why is nursing at a restaurant somehow different than nursing somewhere else? :confused: I saw a few people mention restaurants specifically, so I was just wondering.

[wildcat]

Quick questions for you girls:

1. Does amount of sleep affect supply? I went back to work last week and while I was on maternity leave, I was sleeping probably 8+ hours a night, but it will be hard for me to get that during the week while I'm working. It will probably be more like 5-7 hours a night, which is enough for me, but is it enough for my milk supply?

2. I'm concerned about being able to pump enough for DD. Yesterday, she ate 3, 4oz bottles (12oz total) while I was at work (which is what I expect she'll eat most days). However, I pumped 5 times (4 times during the day and once before bed) to get 13.5oz. So, I'm getting enough, but it's taking a lot of pumping. Any suggestions? I haven't yet tried oatmeal or fenugreek, not sure if that would be the fir