Stephen King "The Dark Tower" Series - Spoliers!

[charliezangel]

I'm currently on my second run of this series ( at book # 3 "The Waste Lands"). DH got me started on this series shortly before we were married and I was instantly addicted. I honeslt feeli like i am part of the story when i read it. DH and i are eagerly awaiting this series to make it to the silver screen.

Anyone else into this series, or completely addicted to it like me??

[pocket]

I LOVED this series! For some reason I avoided it for years and years andonly picked it up on our honeymoon in 2003. then I ploughed through it! Is it worth reading more than once? I loved the stand and reread it every few years.

[MsPeachy]

I love this series. I have reread it several times. My favorite book is the Drawing of the Three followed by Wizard and Glass.

But I have to say, I hated the last one. HATED it. Ok - really, I just hated the last 100 pages or so. But still.

[charliezangel]

pocket TOTALLY worth reading twice. Now that all the books are out, there's no waiting!!! I'm still crawling through book # 3. I just don't have the time to sit and read for hous!! I wish I did.

MsPeachy Wizard and Glass is also my favorite. The last book was very good up until the end. But, I already knew the ending :p . DH read it before I did and I thought I'd never get around to reading the series. So when he started yelling about the ending one night (yes, yelling, he was sooooooooo mad....lol) I asked him what happened and he told me. But I was still shocked when I read it. I honestly didn't think it would happen, i thought he was lying, lol.

[jellybeany]

I LOVE this series. DH got them for me as a gift and I was hooked after the first book! I love Stephen King though - I have a little over half of all of the books he has written. I am 3/4 of the way through Wolves of the Calla. I have been neglecting it because I haven't had any time to read but I want to finish it so I can get on with the series! :)

[MsPeachy]

So when he started yelling about the ending one night Glad to hear I wasn't the only one.

I think my exact reaction was: "Is that IT? That is the way he ends an awesome, epic story that's kept me anticipating and coming back for the last 12 years or so? SK is such an indulgent bastard!! " Grrrr. Repeat.

[charliezangel]

I think my exact reaction was: "Is that IT? That is the way he ends an awesome, epic story that's kept me anticipating and coming back for the last 12 years or so? SK is such an indulgent bastard!! " Grrrr. Repeat.

DH and I had a whole conversation about this on Sunday. If you've read the revised editions of the first 3 books, he opens each of them with about 10 pages of commentary. You can tell by the way he talks at the beginning, and end, of each book that this series was the bane of his existance. It's like he was in agony writing these novels and creating the characters. You'll also notice that with each book, the name of the book is more like an underlying issue. "The gunslinger" was more about his meeting and traveling with jake than it was about him. You'd almost expec tthe book to be called "the way station" or "the boy". "The wastelands" follows our travelers through Mid-World and their own personal battles and does not even MENTION the wastelands until about the last 1/4 of the book. In fact, they are still traveling through the wastelands when "wizard and glass" opens. THAT book does not really give us any insite into the Wizard Glass until the very end when we find out why Roland is so afraid of it....

So it's almost like he doesn't even want to name these books, or his plan is to throw the reader off. He also waited so long to finish this series. He wrote so many books in between that were bestsellers, but "The Dark Tower" series is like the vein of every one. It's an interesting concept, but i think that by ending the book the way he did, it gave him a way out of this excrutiating project. He was able to leave the reader with just enough hope...but nothing is open for discussion. There is no looking for another book. There is no wondering what will happen next....we already know!!!

[Bliss]

I just finished book 7 and I am SOOO sad :( I did not love the ending, but I think I am actually mourning the events of this book

****SPOILERS ALERT*******










I almost put the book down after what happened to Jake, I was that upset. But Oy really did me in, I actually cried :o And the ending was unbelievable, I wasnt as upset about it as some, actually I was totally shocked. I have to give that to Stephen King, that was the LAST thing I would have expected. Of course, I would have been happy w. the whole ka-tet going off into the sunset together after saving the world and living happily ever after lol. Or he could have spared Oy, at least. Spare us some heartache, why dontcha!? What annoys me is that this doesnt really feel like an ending, more like a cliffhanger, since we will never find out what really happens, if Rolands quest ever ends, etc. I thought the book was a bit sloppy and rushed, had hoped for something better, esp. after reading about these characters for so long.

[MsPeachy]

I thought the book was a bit sloppy and rushed, had hoped for something better, esp. after reading about these characters for so long.
My sentiments exactly. That's why I thought the "ending" was a cop out.



I hated what he did to the characters we grew to love. And don't even get me started about Oy - I'm tearing up now just thinking about it.

charlizeangel - I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of SK's motives for the series. I'm pretty sure that he started out writing this back in the late 70's with the idea that it was going to be his great opus work. This huge epic that spans time and worlds. The Gunslinger was originally a short story. Anyhoo - I do agree that while he wanted it to be his great saga, it was also a burden to him. There were times, after The Wastelands, when he said that he didn't think that he would ever complete this story in his lifetime. Of course the Tower pervades his other work. In some, the allusions to people and things are gleefully obvious (Hearts in Atlantis, Black House) in others, it's much more subtle (IT, Desperation, Dreamcatcher) so you know he was thinking about it even while working on these other bestsellers. I think the accident he was involved in forced him to take a restock of his life and that's why the last 3 books came fairly regularly afterwards. But I don't think he was giving the kind of time and attention to them in the same way we saw with the first 3 (I consider book 4 to be more of a supplement to the overall story since it's almost entirely a flashback) and that's why it felt rushed and the ending "convenenient" - so he could just be done with it. And if that's true, then I'm not sure what's worse - never finishing it at all, or finishing it in a largely unsatisfying way.

[charliezangel]

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of SK's motives for the series. I'm pretty sure that he started out writing this back in the late 70's with the idea that it was going to be his great opus work. This huge epic that spans time and worlds. The Gunslinger was originally a short story. Anyhoo - I do agree that while he wanted it to be his great saga, it was also a burden to him. There were times, after The Wastelands, when he said that he didn't think that he would ever complete this story in his lifetime. Of course the Tower pervades his other work. In some, the allusions to people and things are gleefully obvious (Hearts in Atlantis, Black House) in others, it's much more subtle (IT, Desperation, Dreamcatcher) so you know he was thinking about it even while working on these other bestsellers. I think the accident he was involved in forced him to take a restock of his life and that's why the last 3 books came fairly regularly afterwards. But I don't think he was giving the kind of time and attention to them in the same way we saw with the first 3 (I consider book 4 to be more of a supplement to the overall story since it's almost entirely a flashback) and that's why it felt rushed and the ending "convenenient" - so he could just be done with it. And if that's true, then I'm not sure what's worse - never finishing it at all, or finishing it in a largely unsatisfying way.

I completely agree with this, although I still stand by my original assesments as well. I feel like him stating he would never finish the series was subconciously his out. But maybe I'm reading too much into this.

As I said before, I'm working my way through my second journey in this series and I have noticed several things the second time around, esspecially about my original perceptions about the characters. I fins that i am actually picturing the characters differently this time around. It's very interesting. Also, Roland's realtionship with Jake seems stronger the second time I read it, and Eddie and Susannah seem less like lovers, and more like an old married couple.

DH just finished the series for the second time and noticed something in the last book. Page 389 about 2/3 down the paragraph begins "At the sight of this terrible head-wound Susannah leaped to her feet and began to scream again". I didn't catch this the first time around and when DH showed me, I was amazed. After EVERYTHING had been so acurate and consistant in this series, despite years, somtimes decades between books. And he makes a mistake like this in the last book. Anybody have any insite into what the real meaning of this could be?? Or did he just screw up?

[AHammer]

Hey girls! Can I first say how happy I am to find a thread about my favorite books?! I've been a stephen king fan since I was 13ish, but didn't get around to reading the DT series until I was 20. I think the fact that a giant picture of Roland is the first thing you see when you come in my house is an indication of how much the books have affected and captured me. Never before has a book made me cry, but DT7 made me cry about five or six times. The worst was Eddie, I put the book down for over a month because I was so mad. He was my favorite!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y160/amyspencer4/IMG_8690.jpg

This picture hangs in the foyer of my house. It's a limited edition print signed by the artist who did the work for book 1 and book 7, and little sisters (which is where this picture came from). Can you tell I'm obsessed? :o

[MsPeachy]

AHammer - That's an awesome print!! I love the artwork from the books and think it adds so much to the story as you're reading it. So, how many people question you about the print when they see it in your foyer?? :)

I feel like him stating he would never finish the series was subconciously his out. charlizeangel - that is a very good point. Page 389 about 2/3 down the paragraph begins "At the sight of this terrible head-wound Susannah leaped to her feet and began to scream again". Hmmm interesting.....

[charliezangel]

AHammer WOW, that is amazing. I want one, lol. I told DH to look and he says "Is that the dark tower?". Don't worry, you're not the only one who is obsessed. I am continuously using DT references in everyday life, and I am consistenly psychoanalyzing the books and the writing. I feel like *I* should have been IN the book, lol.

MsPeachy Like I said, I tend to psychoanalyze. I could be completely off, but it just tends to feel like he needed to finish this series as fast as he could. I was talking to my girlfriend the other day and she said "he KNOWS that's not the way it's supposed to end. He knows it, yet he's fine with the way things are. He should rewrite it. I am so mad..." lol, and she went on and on. I think sometimes i feel the same way though.

[ysolde]

Has anyone read Cell? There is a theory that it is a prequel to The Dark Tower series, with Randall Flagg showing up in a Harvard (crimson) sweatshirt.

Also, there is lots of stuff on the numbers in the book (cell phone numbers dialed). I have not read the Dark Tower series, but, apparently, the numbers have some significance.

[MsPeachy]

I read Cell but didn't get any DT vibe from it.

(but then again, I can be obtuse about some things ;))

[charliezangel]

All of SK's books revolve around the DT series. Because all things revolve around the dark tower, hehe.

Seriously though, if you read the DT series, you will see that there really can't be a prequel....because the entire series talkes about everything before his journey to the DT. There really is nothing to pre-date.

[charliezangel]

ok, so me and DH are obsessed with DT become a movie(s). Kinda like how they released LOTR or HP. So we have been throwing out ideas of who would play what characters!! LOL, it's fun...so here are ours

Roland--Clint Eastwood or Patrick Swayze
Suzanna--Rosario Dawson
Eddie--Jude Law or Jake Gillenhal
Jake--Haley Joel Osmond (although he is a bit too old for the part now)
Flagg (and his many identities throughout the book)--Christopher Walkin or (and this was my idea) William Hurt

[MsPeachy]

Kinda like how they released LOTR or HPYa know, I'd love to know how they can take these large, successful books and make good, successful movies out of them, but that all of SK's recent movie adaptations stink. If someone faithfully followed the DT story and started with a well done Gunslinger, it would be awesome.

Your choices are pretty good except I can't envision your Eddie. I can't see either of them as him but I'll try to come up with some other suggestions. I have an actor in mind for Flagg fbut I can't think of his name right now. At first I was thinking Wilem Dafoe but Flagg has to be a bit over the top since he's so impressed with himself.

[charliezangel]

Ya know, I'd love to know how they can take these large, successful books and make good, successful movies out of them, but that all of SK's recent movie adaptations stink. If someone faithfully followed the DT story and started with a well done Gunslinger, it would be awesome.

That's the biggest problem we've seen. I don't know who comes up with some of the ideas they bring into the movies, but the adaptations are really terrible. I just recently caught the ending of Desperation..aside from the terrible acting (as ussual) I couldnlt believe how close everything was to how i saw it in my head. It was kinda spooky. Like, the layout of the whole town was EXACTLY what I had pictured, weird.

I haven't seen many of the movies based on his books. I've seen "The Shining", "The Stand", "Storm of the Century" and part of "Desperation". I refused to buy the "Tommyknockers". The book was so out of this world (no pun intended) that I can't imagine a decent film coing out of it.

Let me tell you, had i gone on with my original decision to be a film major, i would LOVE to direct DT. I have so many ideas for "The Gunslinger" and how I would put it into film.

[MsPeachy]

just recently caught the ending of Desperation..aside from the terrible acting (as ussual) I couldnlt believe how close everything was to how i saw it in my head. It was kinda spooky. Like, the layout of the whole town was EXACTLY what I had pictured, weird. I totally missed this movie but was worried about it ALOT. I mean, that is easily one of SKs most violent and bloody books. It's very dark and very creepy.

What I heard was that of all the SK books that were considered "bad" movies, SK was a primary screenwriter/adapter. And all those that were good, he wasn't involved with the adaptation. So he can write the great stories, but shouldn't have anything to do except maybe consult with the screen adaptation.

For example - The original "The Shining" with JAck Nicholson which is a well known and well liked movie, SK hated. He didn't like the way his book was adapted. He was much more heavily involved with the recent made-for-TV remake of "The Shining" which, while alright, wasn't as good.

Back to DT and how so many threads run through his other books, did you read "Black House"? I loved the DT references in that one.

[charliezangel]

I totally missed this movie but was worried about it ALOT. I mean, that is easily one of SKs most violent and bloody books. It's very dark and very creepy.

What I heard was that of all the SK books that were considered "bad" movies, SK was a primary screenwriter/adapter. And all those that were good, he wasn't involved with the adaptation. So he can write the great stories, but shouldn't have anything to do except maybe consult with the screen adaptation.

For example - The original "The Shining" with JAck Nicholson which is a well known and well liked movie, SK hated. He didn't like the way his book was adapted. He was much more heavily involved with the recent made-for-TV remake of "The Shining" which, while alright, wasn't as good.

Back to DT and how so many threads run through his other books, did you read "Black House"? I loved the DT references in that one.

It was....interesting to say the least. I was not impressed (except by the fact that i fealt like i was having deja vu). They comletely botched the ending. I'd probably have to watch it all the way through to ge tthe full effect. I understand what you are saying though. I'll admit, there were several times i had to put that book down because i either felt sick to my stomach, or started crying. It was a really sickening/emotional story.

I didn't know that about SK being involved in the adaptations. So i guess he should stick to his day job, lol. I woud love to see the same director from LOTR do the DT. I think it would be amazing. I'm being serious when i say i think it about it daily. I'm obsessed.

I did not read "Black House", I will have to pick that up at Barnes & Noble this weekend.


ETA: now that they did a screen adaptation of Desperation, do you think The Regulators is on the way? i can't imagine that one on screen.

[MsPeachy]

ETA: now that they did a screen adaptation of Desperation, do you think The Regulators is on the way? i can't imagine that one on screen.It's really funny you mention this because I was thinking about that as I was typing my earlier post. I think it's really cool to read Desperation and The Regulators back to back because of the overlaps/similarities - I don't even know what you would call what he did with those two books. And I'm with you - I have an even harder time imagining that on screen.

Funny enough - I do think Cell would make a good movie though. As long as it wasn't too "zombified" I did not read "Black House", I will have to pick that up at Barnes & Noble this weekend. Oh - you really must. It's a sequel to his earlier novel, The Talisman (Which I have not read) but I had to stop for a moment halfway through because I was like "wait. Is this a part of the DT series? " I mean, some references were subtle and some weren't but as an avid reader of the DT series, I definitely "got" them. There are also tie-ins to DT references made in Insomnia (one of my fave SK books evah!)

Let me know if you pick that one up. Oh - in case you didn't know, he co-wrote that with Peter Straub so that may change how it's listed in a book store.

[charliezangel]

It's really funny you mention this because I was thinking about that as I was typing my earlier post. I think it's really cool to read Desperation and The Regulators back to back because of the overlaps/similarities - I don't even know what you would call what he did with those two books. And I'm with you - I have an even harder time imagining that on screen.

One of the most amazng things about those 2 books is the way your brain runs everything together. I remember how i still envisioned the characters the same, even though the names were flipped around. I believe regulators was the last book he wrote un der the pen name Richard Bachman. I still can't figure out if he wrote them at the same time, or alternated weeks, or what. It's very interesting.

I haven't read "cell" "insomnia" or "Talisman"...in fact, i am a fairly new SK fan. I started with "Skeleton Crew" wich is a compalation of his earlier short stories that he entered in magazines and the like. Then i went straight to DT. I read "Tommy Knockers" in between the last 2 books of the DT series. Then I finally saw "The Shinning" but never read the book. I also saw"The Stand". DH wants me to read "Salem's Lot" "Insomnia" and "Talisman". He said those are the big DT refences. And I guess "Cell" is his most recent work. I will pick up that and "Black House" this week.

[MsPeachy]

I believe regulators was the last book he wrote un der the pen name Richard Bachman.That is correct. I don't know how or in which order he actually wrote them, but I do know they were released almost simultaneously. Also, the cover art on the hardback covers are strikingly similar.

I do not think The Talisman has much DT reference, but if you're getting both, you should probably read it before Black House. However, I would recommend reading Insomnia prior to Black House b/c you will get some stuff better I think.

Since you are a new fan, I also then have to recommend you put IT and the short story anthology Everything's Eventual on your list. IT has very subtle DT references and EE has a short story in it called The Little Sisters of Eluria which is about an adventure of Roland's and also has some tie-ins to Black House.

Sorry for packing your reading list even more! :p

[jimmysgirl424]

I totally missed this movie but was worried about it ALOT. I mean, that is easily one of SKs most violent and bloody books. It's very dark and very creepy.

What I heard was that of all the SK books that were considered "bad" movies, SK was a primary screenwriter/adapter. And all those that were good, he wasn't involved with the adaptation. So he can write the great stories, but shouldn't have anything to do except maybe consult with the screen adaptation.


Desperation definitely ranks up there on the SK most violent and bloody books list. However; the SK book that wins the prize (for me, anyway) for most violent, most bloody, AND most mentally and emotionally disturbing is: Geralds Game. Honestly. I have read and re-read all of SK's books multiple times. With the exception of this one; which I literally had to force myself to finish. I swear, there were moments in that book where I really felt like I was going to be sick.

Oh...and Pet Sematary ranks up there as well.

I also wanted to say that SK was intimately involved with every single aspect of the adaption of The Stand. He was with the making of that movie every step of the way from day one and later said in interviews that he knew his fans would never forgive him if the story was butchered or altered in major ways for its movie adaption. As a rabid fan of The Stand; I thought it was the best adaption of any SK book ever done and remains so today.

Chiming in with another recommendation for charlizeangel: Bag of Bones is an absolutely phenomenal story. It made me cry. :o

I agree that done right; Cell could be a great movie.

[charliezangel]

That is correct. I don't know how or in which order he actually wrote them, but I do know they were released almost simultaneously. Also, the cover art on the hardback covers are strikingly similar.

I do not think The Talisman has much DT reference, but if you're getting both, you should probably read it before Black House. However, I would recommend reading Insomnia prior to Black House b/c you will get some stuff better I think.

Since you are a new fan, I also then have to recommend you put IT and the short story anthology Everything's Eventual on your list. IT has very subtle DT references and EE has a short story in it called The Little Sisters of Eluria which is about an adventure of Roland's and also has some tie-ins to Black House.

Sorry for packing your reading list even more! :p


LOL, keep the list coming. I want to read as many SK books as I can. I think he is an amazing writer and i can't wait to dive deeper into his world.

jimmysgirl424- i appreciate your "reviews" on Geralds Game. There are some books of his that I cannot read because I have an issue with night terrors when i am stressed or sick. (apparently, it goes back to my childhood...my dad says i was struck by lightning and have had them ever since...who knows.). Some of his books have caused thses to be worse as they create images in my mind right before bed. Most of the boks i have read (aside from DT) i have read during the dylight hours with a "chick flick" chaser to make me happy, lol.

[jimmysgirl424]

I know it will sound stupid, but another SK book that I can't bring myself to re-read is Salems Lot. That book haunted me for a long time after I read it and I don't know why, really.

My biggest recommendation to you, Charliezangel has got to be The Stand. I have literally read that book in its un-cut version at least 10 times, maybe more. IMO, it is one of the most engaging stories he has written. I make it a point to read it at least once a year and no matter how many times I have read it; I never fail to be completely sucked in by the story. It is an awesome book.

[MsPeachy]

I love The Stand but will admit to finding it a bit hard to get into at first. I am proud to say that I have the unabridged version in hardback. Boy is that one thick book! :)

[jimmysgirl424]

I am proud to say that I have the unabridged version in hardback. Boy is that one thick book! :)

Thats the version that I have too. I read the cut version first (years ago) and after reading the unabridged, I can't imagine wanting to read the other one now.

[MsPeachy]

I've never understood abridging - but then I like long books. I can't imagine wanting to read the other one now.Me neither - I have that one in paperback but never read it even though the other one makes my arms hurt.

[jimmysgirl424]

I've never understood abridging - but then I like long books. Me neither - I have that one in paperback but never read it even though the other one makes my arms hurt.

I adore long books! :D Even though I collect my books in hardback, so I always end up with aching arms too! For The Stand, I actually own the unabridged version in hardback and paperback and usually read the paperback because of the weight issue. The paperback is pretty much read to tatters at this point.

Two other books that I have read multiple times by SK are IT and The Tommyknockers. I was seriously pi$$ed at how bad the tv movie version of The Tommyknockers was butchered. That was just plain awful. :mad:

[charliezangel]

Originally Posted by MsPeachy
I've never understood abridging - but then I like long books. Me neither - I have that one in paperback but never read it even though the other one makes my arms hurt.

Yeah, it confuses me a bit. Why make an abridged version...I would think it was insult...like people don't have time to read your WHOLE work, so you break it down for them...lol.

I've read "The Stand". My list to take with me to the book store tomorrow is "Salem's Lot", "Insomnia" and "Black House".

I'll go for that right now....lol, don't wanna overload

ETA: I'm in the middle of my second run of "Wolves of the Calla" from DT. I'm probably gonna finish that first.

[MsPeachy]

The paperback is pretty much read to tatters at this point.Hee! I know! My most tattered SK paperback is my copy of Insomnia! Second to that would be DT: Drawing of the Three. :)

charlizeangel - I hope you have fun at the bookstore and can find everything on your list!! :D I would think it was insultI would think so too.

[MsPeachy]

Hey ladies - I just had to come back in here and tell you that I'm eating my words. DH & I rented Desperation and watched it this weekend. I thought they did a really good job. Plus, Ron Perlman is in it! Hell, he's good in everything and was quite believable as Collie Entragen. I thought the cast was good overall and the story was handled pretty well. IT should have been more bloody but since it was made for TV I can see why it wasn't. I also think had I tried to watch it on TV, it would have ruined the suspense. Seeing it commerical-free was much better!

[jimmysgirl424]

Yeah, it confuses me a bit. Why make an abridged version...I would think it was insult...like people don't have time to read your WHOLE work, so you break it down for them...lol.


When SK wrote The Stand, he wrote it in its full-glory, unabridged version. Basically, when the book got to the publishing house, they broke down printing cost v/s what they thought the market (buying public) could spare and came up with a set price for the book. Unfortunately, they couldn't publish the book as it was originally written by SK for that price so it had to be cut. They gave SK the option of doing the cuts [butchery] himself or having someone from the house staff do it. SK decided to do the cuts himself so as to better protect the integrity of the story.

If you own the unabridged version of The Stand, SK tells the above-story in the foreword so that his readers understand how the abridged and unabridged versions came to be. Personally, I can't picture the story without several of the more memorable characters that were cut from the abridged version. (among them the very...ummmmm.....happy The Kid. "Do you believe that happy crappy?!!" :D ;) )