Flight 93 - the movie

[sake]

I'm curious - Does anyone have interest or plans to go see this movie? I can't imagine anyone wanting to go see it, but I guess there must be a market for it. I saw the commercials playing a lot this weekend, and had to change to channel every time.

[jesseybell]

no freaking way. I think I will be pretty upset if I even see a preview of it in a movie theatre. I change the channel whenever an ad comes on. I think it is very very wrong to have it as a movie. The 2-3 tv movies that came out was bad enough, but to think that they are asking people to pay money to see it disturbs me.

[solongtogo]

I won't go to the theatre to see it, but will likely rent it. I had originally thought it was too soon but not so sure. I read an article that said most of the victims families are in support of the movie.

FTR, there is a movie called World Trade Center coming to theatres in August..or so I've heard.

[meatpie]

Absolutely not. It sickens me a bit to think they made a movie so soon about it. Unfortunately I lived 9/11 (I was there) so I don't need to watch a movie to know what happened.

I'll be curious to see how the movie does...and yes I heard about the WTC movie. Oliver Stone directed I think with Nicholas Cage starring...

[Chimichanga]

I don't think I'd want to see this movie right now. Being PG my hormones are all out of whack. But, if done correctly, I think this movie could be really moving.

It's sort of like Passion of the Christ. It's not a "feel good" movie by any means, but it could potentially offer some insight into what those people experienced. I went to see the Passion and am really glad I did. Will I ever see it again? Probably not because it was so heart wrenching for me. But, I'm glad I experienced the movie.

I think this movie might be the same for me.

[bethnjim]

I saw the previews for this movie while waiting for another to start and I flipped out. It was horrible re-living/re-watching the planes fly into the towers. I screamed when it happened and actually felt drained by the time the movie clip was over. I started crying in the theatre. I know the movie is supposed to honor the heros, but it seems like people are getting wealthy on one of the most tragic things to ever happen in the US. I WILL NOT be seeing it and every movie theatre that plays the preview will be getting an ear full from me.:mad:

[Raven_Girl]

I'm sorry but i'm not ready for that movie.
I know some people are and want to get an idea what happened to them but its too raw for me:( . i would cry before it starts because I know how it ends.
Does that make sense?:confused:

[KK812]

I read an article that said most of the victims families are in support of the movie.



DH and I might go see it. To me it's in the same league of Black Hawk Down- yes, it's a terrible event, but it is part of our history. I was completely against it until I saw a thing on tv about it with interviews of many of the victim's families. It said that the director/producer would not go through with the film until he got permission from ALL of the victims familes-husbands, wives, children, brothers and sisters-all of the immediate family. We'll see though.

[miaclear]

I was at the theater a few weeks ago and saw a preview for this. It didn't start out like a normal preview though, it was an interview with the director and some of the family members. The director said that he asked (and I believe he said EVERY) family about doing this movie and they all felt like it was time. They showed interviews with some of the family members and they all said they wanted this done so that their loved ones on that flight could be remembered and I guess personalized. Having lost my brother in an accident I can relate to this, as much pain as remembering his death brings it also brings me back to that time when he was here. Talking about it for me, his life, his death, any aspect of it helps heal. But I know different peple grieve differently.

As far as myself thinking it's time for this movie, I'm not sure, but I can watch it whenever I'm ready. If the families were ready for it to be made and it sounds like they are, I'm all for it. I will likely not see it in the theater because I know it'll be an emotional experience but I will see it.

[diam124]

I will not be seeing it, but I also heard that they got permission from family members of every victim on Flight 93, so to me, that says that the families actually want people to see it. Knowing that the family members approve makes me more likely to see it (although I won't see it in a theater).

[JBB]

I have so many mixed feelings about the movie. However, my husband went to school with one of the passengers on the plane so he feels he should see it. It will be a hard movie to see, but I could not let my husband go alone to see it.

[msnicolea]

I won't go see it--I was overwhlemed just seeing the previews last weekend. As long as the families support it, though, I don't have a problem with it. I'm just personally not ready to watch it.

[Mrs. M.]

I don't know if I will see it, probably not.

I still upsets me that the crews on these flights are so often not mentioned, considering they were they first to die while on duty that day.

[Rose]

I am not ready to see it right now. I can't imagine how it must have been for the people recreating the moving. What an horrible feeling.

[jimmysgirl424]

DH and I just watched a preview for it yesterday. Are there different previews out there for this movie? Because the one I saw showed no scenes whatsoever; just recordings from the cockpit and cell phone calls made by the passengers, all on a blank screen with occasional "tag lines". Thats the best I can describe it.

Anyway. DH and I will watch it, but not in the theatre. I know it will upset me terribly and I don't want to be in public when I see it. For me, personally, I feel like I owe it to the people who gave their lives that day. They died trying to protect our country from further attacks. By watching it, I am honoring their memory and what they went through during that flight.

[bethnjim]

DH and I just watched a preview for it yesterday. Are there different previews out there for this movie? Because the one I saw showed no scenes whatsoever; just recordings from the cockpit and cell phone calls made by the passengers, all on a blank screen with occasional "tag lines". Thats the best I can describe it.

The preview I saw in the theatre went something like this:

Telephone call...hear voice explaining that the plane was taken by terrorist. Screaming. Smoke billowing from the first tower hit. (Live...exactly what you saw that horrible day all over every single news channel!!) Another voice sounding like an operator saying that planes are being crashed into different buildings. More screaming and crying. Live footage of the second plane flying into the second tower. Pieces of plane and twisted medal in a field. Pieces of charred plane in a field. A red and white object in a field (which I presume was a piece of the plane). Other various scenes from the actual movie.

It was horrible to watch!!

[Dally]

I think it's too soon for this (maybe the 10- or 20-year anniversary would be better?). I have mixed feelings about it: weird that people will make money, but glad the victims' families are supportive. I'm not ready to see it, though. When they released the cockpit recordings from flight 93 last week, I heard a few, but I couldn't listen anymore. It's still too fresh. I did think the documentary that was done a couple of years ago about Flight 93 was appropriate.

I definitely do not want to see a movie about WTC. Again, a documentary would be better.

ETA: A friend of mine who sees a lot of movies said the trailer for Flight 93 is being met with gasps and then boos. I guess a lot of people aren't ready for this movie yet.

[Rose]

There was a regular preview and then people complained so it was taken out of certain theaters. It was replaced by commentary from the director and other people involved with the movie I believe.

[msnicolea]

I saw the full preview which included seing Mark Bingham running for the plane--it was rough.

[MLA]

I think it's still too early for me. My first reaction to the idea was outrage, but knowing that the victims' families approve has changed that. I think, though, that any money being made from it should go to charity. No individual person or company should be profiting from such horror.

[MLA]

I saw the full preview which included seing Mark Bingham running for the plane--it was rough.

Just reading that made me want to cry. I'm definitely not ready for this movie.

[keska]

I don't think it's too soon to make a movie. Every individual can decide whether or not they want to see it. I will watch it even though I know it will make me cry, but like several others said, I will wait to see it at home. I don't want to deal with those kinds of emotions in a public theater.

[alootikki]

I can't see this movie - still hits too close. I couldn't listen to the 911 tapes that were recently released - I'm choking up just thinking about how family members have to live with knowing that their loved one was scared and trapped in their final moments.

[kedzieb]

Having lived through 9/11 in NYC, I think it time for this movie. The people on that flight were amazing and I think their story should be heard. If the families of those heroes are ready for the movie to be made, who am I to say different?

Before 9/11 became so politicized, it was a story of the incredible courage of people to fight against the terrorists and the police/firefighters who saved so many of the people a the WTC and Pentagon.

I recently saw the preview (complete with clips from the movie) at a theater in Times Square - there were no boo's in my theater. I think living through 9/11 actually makes me feel more ready for the movie, as well as the WTC movie this Fall. It's certainly not going to be as emotionally exhausting as what I already went through that day.

[jimmysgirl424]

I think, though, that any money being made from it should go to charity. No individual person or company should be profiting from such horror.


I agree, and I love the idea of donating the profits of this movie to charity. Very appropriate.

bethnjim Thanks for posting that description. That's definitely not the one we saw yesterday. The one you saw gave me goosebumps just reading about it.

[BridalLace]

i have found that i prefer watching documentaries about the cleanup and the rebuilding of the WTC site - i don't like to watch recaps of that horrible day - i prefer to think of more positive things. that must mean i am not ready to watch Flight 93, even though i think people like Todd Beamer should definitely be remembered as heros - if people like him become part of folklore, that's fine with me. but i don't want to watch the things i've heard were part of the Flight 93 - like innocent flight attendants being stabbed to death - i just can't imagine that, i can't stand to watch it, even though i would be cheering on the others who rebelled later on. some parts are just too painful to think about.

[claribella]

No I won't see it and now I'm afraid to go see ANY movie for fear that the preview might show up.

[looch]

Well, I was living in NYC at the time, and actually saw the first tower fall from my office across the hudson river. I will never forget the sounds when that building fell, nor will I ever be able to get the smell out of my nose.
It is, however, part of who I am now, and wo we are as americans. I hope that we never forget any of those courageous people. A movie is just what we need, before we forget.

[ducgal]

Saw a preview for it. Didn't like sitting through it. No way I want to see this movie - too horrible, too soon.

I do have a problem with airplane tragedies in general though because my mother and step father died in a plane crash. Watching the preview almost made me feel naseous, but I do think that it was the combination of my personal history and 9/11.

I turned afterwards and asked my DH how anyone could put themselves through that.

[solongtogo]

It's interesting to note that so far the people in this thread who actually lived through the events of 9/11 personally are for the movie, but those of us who were not physically in the areas that the events happened in are against...

[KaliLily]

Once I heard that the families of the Flight 93 passengers were all behind the movie, I felt much better about its release. I was initially concerned this was a case of Hollywood exploitation.

That being said, I don't know if I'm ready to watch it yet. At least not this week with DH flying on business.

[miaclear]

It's interesting to note that so far the people in this thread who actually lived through the events of 9/11 personally are for the movie, but those of us who were not physically in the areas that the events happened in are against...

I have no personal conections to 911 but am for the movie.

Last night on Extra or one of those shows they did a piece on this and showed the actors meeting with the families of the ones they played int he movie. Really heartbreaking.

[charliezangel]

Does anyone know where i can see the trailer online?

[charliezangel]

OK, i just found the trailer. UMMM, i dunno. I guess if i can make myself think that it's just another Harrison Ford in "Air Force One" I might be able to get through it. But knowing the death and devistation it truly cause the American people, i don't know. DH will probably want to see it, but i can't see myslef holding it together through the entire move. Just the little preview makes me sick.

[jimmysgirl424]

I have no personal conections to 911 but am for the movie.




Ditto me.

[KarenS]

It's interesting to note that so far the people in this thread who actually lived through the events of 9/11 personally are for the movie, but those of us who were not physically in the areas that the events happened in are against...I'm for it. I wasn't sure until I heard and read some of the interviews with the families and found out that they *all* agreed that the movie should be made. Once I heard that, I really couldn't find any objection to it. I probably will NOT see it in the theater. As others have mentioned - I don't think I'm ready to experience that in public.

Karen

[IrisHope]

I cried during the preview at the movies. I don't think I could watch it. :(

[MaineBelle]

I won't be going to see this movie. It is still too soon for me. I can't even watch replays of the news footage without getting choked up. The phone calls and the transcripts that they released from the Moussaoui trial were too much for me.

[tinkerbelljenny]

I won't go see the movie, it is too soon for me. I almost lost my Dh(boyfriend at the time) in the attack. He was working in Tower 2 at the time for Morgan Stanley but wasn't at work that day. I recently visited the WTC site and couldn't stop crying. I also have so much anger still from the attack.

[Dally]

This is true; it is part of who we are:It is, however, part of who I am now, and wo we are as americans. I hope that we never forget any of those courageous people. A movie is just what we need, before we forget.
But I don't think people are forgetting. Just looking at this thread, you can see people are not only not forgetting, the events still feel very fresh.

I still think documentaries are more appropriate than a commercial movie. Documentaries both honor those that died that day and help us remember as a nation, but they don't have the "entertainment" feel that commercial movies seem to have.

I do think the director's heart is in the right place with this movie, judging by what people have said. But I still think it's not the right time.

[IrisHope]

Dally, I believe it is a documentary. What is the different if it's shown on TV or a movie theater? Is it that you have pay to see it in a movie?

[LDS Angel 19]

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I agree that it seems awful soon. But I have to admit I am slightly intrigued for some reason.

[kedzieb]

It's interesting to note that so far the people in this thread who actually lived through the events of 9/11 personally are for the movie, but those of us who were not physically in the areas that the events happened in are against...

I've noticed this time and again on the boards, so it's not surprising to me. The people who lived through 9/11 also are the ones most opposed to war in Iraq (since Iraq had nothing to do with it) and Bush. I'm always confused about this.

[KarenS]

The people who lived through 9/11 also are the ones most opposed to war in Iraq (since Iraq had nothing to do with it)I'm really not happy with gross generalizations like this. Honestly I don't find them to be true.

And not to be pedantic - we ALL lived through 9/11. Just because I didn't happen to be in the City that day or on one of the planes doesn't mean I didn't live through it. I watched it happen live on TV. I knew a photographer who was killed when the second building came down. I know someone whose mom died in the first tower. And my husband's entire family is or was Military and many of them reinlisted because of 9/11. My husband almost became a Federal Air Marshall except his bad knee caused him to fail the physical.

So let's not talk about a dividing line between who "lived though" it and who didn't. Anyone who was in America during that time lived through it. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wasn't touched in some way by the events of that day or the aftermath.

Karen

[jimmysgirl424]

Well said, KarenS! :)

I couldn't agree more. I'm not a New Yorker, but my brother-in-law was doing work in DC on 9/11. Our family went almost 9 hours without hearing from him or being able to reach him via his cell phone.

[kedzieb]

I'm really not happy with gross generalizations like this. Honestly I don't find them to be true.

And not to be pedantic - we ALL lived through 9/11. Just because I didn't happen to be in the City that day or on one of the planes doesn't mean I didn't live through it. I watched it happen live on TV. I knew a photographer who was killed when the second building came down. I know someone whose mom died in the first tower. And my husband's entire family is or was Military and many of them reinlisted because of 9/11. My husband almost became a Federal Air Marshall except his bad knee caused him to fail the physical.

So let's not talk about a dividing line between who "lived though" it and who didn't. Anyone who was in America during that time lived through it. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wasn't touched in some way by the events of that day or the aftermath.

Karen

The only reason I said that I lived through it was to make my point that seeing the preview or even the movie isn't going to be anywhere near as upseting as seeing in person what happened that day. I'm sure it was upsetting to watch on TV and I'm not interested in a contest of horror here.

But I do think that 'living through it' - to me - actually means being there. The smells, sounds, panic, camaraderie, kindness, danger, anger, fear, and sadness would have been very hard to understand without being there. I felt terrible about Hurricane Katrina and devestated by the lack of response, but I'd never say I lived through it. And I certainly wouldn't wish for anyone lucky enough not to be in NYC or at the Pentagon on 9/11 that they had to live through it.

[KarenS]

I felt terrible about Hurricane Katrina and devestated by the lack of response, but I'd never say I lived through it.I think you're comparing apples and oranges.

Hurricane Katrina was awful and DH's parents did, in fact experience it first hand. But Hurricane Katrina was an act of nature. It affected a part of our country and many other people were simply not affected by it at all.

9/11 was an inentional attack on our country and our people and affected ALL Americans. It has profoundly changed how we feel about our country, about other countries, how other countries feel about us. It has caused fear becuase it could happen again and it could happen to anyone anywhere. A hurricane is not going to hit Chicago, or DC, or Atlanta, or LA. But a terrorist flying a plane into a building or blowing up a building or putting poison in our drinking water .. that could happen anywhere in the US at any time to any one of us.

They're two totally different things. And I readily acknolwedge that being there in person is a different level of "living through it" than seeing it on TV or being affected via the people we know. But to differentiate between those who "lived through it" and "didn't live through it" because they weren't there on that day is wrong and disrespectful of those of us who lost friends and family ... and our feelings of safety and security in our country and our lives. We all lived through it.

Karen

[KaliLily]

Very well said, Karen.

[meatpie]

It's interesting to note that so far the people in this thread who actually lived through the events of 9/11 personally are for the movie, but those of us who were not physically in the areas that the events happened in are against...

I lived it. Saw the second plane hit from two blocks away on my way to work. I won't see it - never will.

[laura]

Dally, I believe it is a documentary. What is the different if it's shown on TV or a movie theater? Is it that you have pay to see it in a movie?

This film is not a documentary. It is essentially the "gist" of what happened as far as we know (including images/film/audio clips already mentioned) with some hollywood thrown in to fill in the rest. And particularly for THIS plane, I think that could go well - or very, very wrong. A documentary, to me, would be more factual - ie. Discovery Channel vs. HBO, I guess.

That said, I don't think there would ever be a "good time" for a film like this, so maybe now is the time. I still think it's too soon to me, but when I originally heard about it, I was shocked and instantly said of course it was too soon, they shouldn't do that, etc, etc. But every time I hear something about it or see a clip or read about it, I become a little less shocked and a little more curious - so I'm not really sure how I feel now.

What I do know is that I agree with kedzieb re: 'living through it', however I think the disagreement is more semantics than anything else. When she says 'living through it', I get the impression she means physically living through it - as in those who were stranded and walked for miles to get home with soot all over their clothes, those who smelled the burning, heard the sounds, etc, etc. I don't think she means we didn't all 'experience' the terrorist attack on some level, I think she just meant it was different for a New Yorker living in NYC at the time. I don't think it trivializes the experience of 9/11 for people who didn't live in NYC at the time - we were all affected in some way, undoubtedly. But I don't think it is the same, either. I would venture to say that the experience is/was different for someone living/working in NYC at that time than it even would be for someone who lived away but lost a friend/family member in the WTC. We all suffered loss, whether loss of life or just loss of innocence or naivety - but that doesn't mean the actual personal/physical experience wasn't different.

And I personally thought the Hurricane Katrina response issue was a pretty good comparison. Yes the hurricane itself was a natural disaster, but the reaction/experiences in the aftermath were a different thing all together. I sat in my living room in horror looking at what people were living in / going through / dealing with while also reading about what little was being done to help them. Pretty similar to my feelings of horror after 9/11. Same feelings of helplessness, same feelings of despair, same feelings of how could/why did this happen, same feelings of what can I do to help. Of course they are completely different tragedies, but I do 'get' the comparison she was trying to make, and I do think it was a valid one.

[kedzieb]

They're two totally different things. And I readily acknolwedge that being there in person is a different level of "living through it" than seeing it on TV or being affected via the people we know. But to differentiate between those who "lived through it" and "didn't live through it" because they weren't there on that day is wrong and disrespectful of those of us who lost friends and family ... and our feelings of safety and security in our country and our lives. We all lived through it.


I believe that the people who lost relatives in Flight 93 are the best judge of when it is appropriate for a movie about their loved ones to be released. I believe that the closer you are to an issue the better you understand the whole picture. If anything, this is more respectful to those who lost relatives than the opinion that all Americans share the same amount of pain and sadness after 9/11. I'm insulted that you imply I've been anything less than respectful of their loss. This is not true.

[KarenS]

than the opinion that all Americans share the same amount of pain and sadness after 9/11.I NEVER said that. Ever.

You are the one who is drawing hte line between those who "lived through it" and "didn't live through it" as being people who were in NYC at the time vs. those who weren't. And you are the one making the hugely incorrect generalization about those who "lived through 9/11 also are the ones most opposed to war in Iraq".

I'm sorry if you are insulted. I was insulted at your implication that I didn't "live through it" because I wasn't in NYC. My photographer friend is just as dead. My friend's mother is just as dead. And several of my family members are still in Iraq getting shot at. That doesn't mean I suffered the exact same trauma as someone who saw it or lost a spouse or a child ... but that doesn't mean that I didn't "live through it" either.

Karen

[laura]

Perhaps changing the phrase "lived through it" to something less ... I don't know, inflammatory, would help? I actually think 'lived through it' is pretty accurate as a differential between someone who physically lived there at the time and not, but you seem abnormally hung up on that one phrase being used in a broader sense than I think it was originally implied. Semantics, semantics.

[lawyerlee]

It's too soon for me. Even the previews make me very sad. I'm not sure when I'll feel like seeing this movie, if ever. :(

[kris97]

As someone who lived 4 blocks from the world trade center, even reading this thread makes me cry. Since they received permission from the family members, I'm not made that they made it, but there's no way I can see it. Maybe ever.

I will say this, though -- if you weren't there or lost someone close to you, your experience is going to be different that those who did. I once had a relative of my husband's tell me "We were all attacked, honey" when I tried to explain that people who weren't in New York (or DC, or on the plane) _don't_ know what it was like. We can try to tell you, but there, there just are no words.

[isobel]

.... even though i think people like Todd Beamer should definitely be remembered as heros - if people like him become part of folklore, that's fine with me. but i don't want to watch the things i've heard were part of the Flight 93 - like innocent flight attendants being stabbed to death

This is part of the reason I don't want to see the movie. It really pains me that individuals (i.e.: white, christian good looking Todd Beemer) are glorified from this flight. Yes, Todd Beemer was brave and amazing, but so was every other person that stood up with him on that flight and all the others we will never hear about on the other flights. And all the people who died in the towers. We hear so much about "let's roll" but what about the guy who refused to leave the WTC because his wheelchair bound friend could not make it down? WHat about the pilots and flight attendants who were the first to be killed?

There are hundreds of stories from that day.
Not one is more important than the others.

[KarenS]

if you weren't there or lost someone close to you, your experience is going to be different
I tried to explain that people who weren't in New York (or DC, or on the plane) _don't_ know what it was like. We can try to tell you, but there, there just are no words.

I agree totally that (a) the experience is different and (b) no one who wasn't in NY can ever know what is was like for those who were.

But by equal token, those who weren't in NYC don't know what it was like for those of us who weren't there but who watched it and who lost friends and who have since lost friends or family in the "War on Terror" (whatever that is). And to say that we didn't "live through it" is hurtful. Just because I wasn't there doesnt' mean it didn't profoundly affect me and my family. And that's my problem. Defining someone who wasn't in NYC as someone who "didn't live through it" is hurtful and wrong, IMO.

All Americans lived through it. We may have all experienced it in different ways and we may have all suffered various degrees of loss. But we all lived through it.

Karen

[KarenS]

It really pains me that individuals (i.e.: white, christian good looking Todd Beemer) Wow. I'm just floored by this comment. I don't even know how to respond except to say that if you really think that's the only reson that Todd Beemer is sort of singled out, I feel very sorry for you.

karen

[isobel]

Wow. I'm just floored by this comment. I don't even know how to respond except to say that if you really think that's the only reson that Todd Beemer is sort of singled out, I feel very sorry for you.

karen
Of course I don't think it is the only readon he was singled out but the fact that he was all the above and had a good looking wife who was able to talk clearly and openly about the tradgedy certainly was part of the myth that was built about him. And if you don't realize that then you're pretty damn naive.

The fact is that he was one of two people mentioned by name in this thread in spite of the fact that there were many people on that flight that chose to stand up. We live in a world where everything needs to be summed up into a soundbite that can run on the five o'clock news. That's something I find hard to take. Every single person that dies that day was a hero to someone, whether or not that had a catchphrase.

[lawyerlee]

Wow. I'm just floored by this comment. I don't even know how to respond except to say that if you really think that's the only reson that Todd Beemer is sort of singled out, I feel very sorry for you.

karen
Oh, christ. You're just trying to be pissy.

[KarenS]

Oh, christ. You're just trying to be pissy.Oh? And what's this response, Saint Di? *eyeroll*

I'm so sick of you and your personal attacks on me when you don't agree with me. If you disagree, then disagree, but quit being such a bitch to me.

And by the way, I wasn't "trying to be pissy". The comment genuinely bothered me and I said so.

Karen

[KaliLily]

I will say this, though -- if you weren't there or lost someone close to you, your experience is going to be different that those who did.

You bring up a good point here. We all lived through it, but not everyone had the same experience. For me, it was being glued to the TV in my Washington State home and worrying about my DH who was stranded in London (he was due to fly home 9/12 but didn't come home for another week). For others it was worrying about friends and family in NYC, DC/VA, and in many cases learning they had been killed. And for others, it was being right there watching it live - without the option to turn off the radio/tv.

I would agrue the entire International community lived through the events of 9/11, but to paraphrase Kris97, everyone's experience was not the same.

[kris97]

I agree totally that (a) the experience is different and (b) no one who wasn't in NY can ever know what is was like for those who were.

But by equal token, those who weren't in NYC don't know what it was like for those of us who weren't there but who watched it and who lost friends and who have since lost friends or family in the "War on Terror" (whatever that is). And to say that we didn't "live through it" is hurtful. Just because I wasn't there doesnt' mean it didn't profoundly affect me and my family. And that's my problem. Defining someone who wasn't in NYC as someone who "didn't live through it" is hurtful and wrong, IMO.

All Americans lived through it. We may have all experienced it in different ways and we may have all suffered various degrees of loss. But we all lived through it.

Karen

I know what you're trying to say, and I respect your opinion, but I think there is a real, fundamental difference between being immediately affected -- either by being there or by losing someone -- and experiencing it indirectly, by watching it on television. You'll see I worded it carefully in my description - I count those who lost someone, even if they did not live in New York, as having "lived through it," so these remarks may not be applicable to you. But saying we all, no matter where lived or how directly we were affected, "lived through it" is just not accurate. While everyone may have felt incredibly sad, or scared, or traumatized, if you lived in Iowa, and knew no victims personally, you simply cannot know what it was like to live in Manhattan when this happened -- just as I simply cannot know what it is like for a soldier fighting in Iraq, or a refugee in Darfur. I just urge us not to conflate the experiences of someone who fled Seven World Trade and someone who watched the towers fall from a safe house two thousand miles away.

[KarenS]

Kris - I appreciate your explanation. I totally agree with you that the experiences are not the same ... but I think we're just going to have to disagree on the use of "lived through it". The experiences may be different, but we all experienced it in some way, shape, or form. And dust becuase the experiences were different doesn't mean that they weren't valid. I don't like the idea that anyone's experience of fear or loss or grief should be marginalized just becuase that person didn't happen to be in NYC on 9/11/2001.

And the whole point of my reaction to the phrase was the original quote which implied that if you didn't "live through it" (i.e. were in NYC when it happened) then your opinions on our political situation were in some way "wrong" or irrelevant and unimportant.

Anyway ... that's how I feel about it. :)

Karen

[ginadc]

I know what you're trying to say, and I respect your opinion, but I think there is a real, fundamental difference between being immediately affected -- either by being there or by losing someone -- and experiencing it indirectly, by watching it on television.

Absolutely agree with that. I had a hellacious experience on 9/11--I was in Tunisia on a business trip, my then-fiance and now-DH worked in the World Financial Center and I didn't know if he was alive or dead for about 8 hours. I then lived in DC, so both the place I lived and the place where my fiance lived were hit, and I had no way of getting in touch with a number of people I loved, again for hours. I was stuck thousands of miles away, obviously couldn't get home for some time, and felt totally freaked out and lost and isolated.

BUT...even with all that, my experience on 9/11 just wasn't like what my DH went through--on the ferry from Hoboken when plane #1 hit and standing at the dock looking up at the towers when plane #2 hit--or what our friends who were physically there in the midst of that day, either in DC/VA or in the NY area, went through. It was just a completely different thing. Today, I can stand to watch 9/11 coverage (not a lot, but I can stand to watch it); DH can't. He never used to be a nervous flier; now, he clutches my hand every time we take off or land. I just think the visceral experience of having actually been there, or having lost a loved one (not like "my best friend's brother's girlfriend," but really a loved one) was all kinds of more intense.

I just urge us not to conflate the experiences of someone who fled Seven World Trade and someone who watched the towers fall from a safe house two thousand miles away.

Amen. I saw bodies fall on television from a hotel room in Tunis. My DH, and his best friend who was in Tower 2 (Oppenheimer) saw and heard them fall. It's just not the same thing.

[KarenS]

Ok, I think this is being way way way way way way blwon out of proportion to what I originally said.

Please let me emphasise again: I am not saying we experienced it all the same way. (Bold for emphasis, not becuase I am yelling.)

However, everyone in America *did* experience it. That's all I'm saying. We all lived through it. We all lived through it differently, but we all did live through it. Some experiences were more intense, some were more personal, some were more traumatic. But we *all* experienced it in a way that we don't all experience natural disasters or goverment screwups or whatever.

So to make comments about how people who "didn't experience it" have a certain political view is marginalizing the experiences and the opinions of people who disagree with you (you referring to those who feel this way).

That was my whole point. Not that we were all equally touched, but that we all were touched in some way,

Ok?

Karen

[vjel]

At first I couldn't believe this movie was coming out. It does make me feel better knowing that ALL the families had to ok this movie before making it. I agree with whoever said that the money made from this movie should go to charity.

I won't see this movie. I just can't deal. I don't think anyone who remembers that day is ever going to forget any of the images that were shown over and over and over or their loved ones who died. I know I won't. And for me personally, I don't want to keep reliving it (I live in the DC suburbs). It was just so traumatic. I guess I don't see why this movie had to be made. I understand the people on this flight are heroes, but there were MANY heroes that day and I don't see any movies being made about them.


ITA with this:
Originally Posted by KarenS

However, everyone in America *did* experience it. That's all I'm saying. We all lived through it. We all lived through it differently, but we all did live through it. Some experiences were more intense, some were more personal, some were more traumatic. But we *all* experienced it in a way that we don't all experience natural disasters or goverment screwups or whatever.

So to make comments about how people who "didn't experience it" have a certain political view is marginalizing the experiences and the opinions of people who disagree with you (you referring to those who feel this way).

That was my whole point. Not that we were all equally touched, but that we all were touched in some way,

[kedzieb]

Ok, I think this is being way way way way way way blwon out of proportion to what I originally said.

Please let me emphasise again: I am not saying we experienced it all the same way. (Bold for emphasis, not becuase I am yelling.)

However, everyone in America *did* experience it. That's all I'm saying. We all lived through it. We all lived through it differently, but we all did live through it. Some experiences were more intense, some were more personal, some were more traumatic. But we *all* experienced it in a way that we don't all experience natural disasters or goverment screwups or whatever.

So to make comments about how people who "didn't experience it" have a certain political view is marginalizing the experiences and the opinions of people who disagree with you (you referring to those who feel this way).

That was my whole point. Not that we were all equally touched, but that we all were touched in some way,

Ok?

Karen

If you're trying to make it seem like I, or anyone else posting here who experienced 9/11 firsthand, have said they have ownership of that day or should be the only ones making political decisions based on the attack is untrue. You can try to twist my words all you like. I never said that.

I did say that it surprises me that the same people who were in NYC on 9/11 are very vocally anti-war/anti-patriot act/anti-bush. You'd think the opposite would be true.

I'm not sure why you'd want to take on more of the trauma that you were lucky enough to have avoided. I wish wholeheartedly that I'd been somewhere else - somewhere safe and quiet and peaceful.

I will say I'm proud of having been here and helped out and made it through OK. Somehow I was able to still trust people, not stereotype Arabs as evil, and resist fear-mongering politics. I know now a little more about how I react to fear, what my response is in a crisis and how quickly life can change. I think you can get those lessons out of 9/11 if you didn't experience it firsthand, but I'm not sure I would have.

I wouldn't have wished my worst enemy to have to go through what I did that day and I'm certainly not saying that I have some sort of ownership of it. There are people who lost closer loved ones, who went to more funerals, who lived closer, who died that day. And I'd hope they wouldn't want me to go through as much pain as they did just to keep up.

Everyone in the WORLD experienced 9/11. There was such a huge outpouring of support from countries all around the world. NYC is such an international city and many of those who died left family in other countries too. I hope this movie or the WTC movie that comes out this Fall don't forget that too.

[LyLMyssChaos]

This is such a sensitive, personal topic because it did affect so many people. I watched the movie that A&E had about this flight and I cried throughout so much of it because of the memories it rekindled. The biggest reason that I think I want to see this movie is because the family members were involved, so I am thinking it will be as accurate as we can get. It most definitely is not a date movie, or a grab some popcorn and Milk Duds, while slurping an Icee kind of movie, but I feel it needed to be made. Is it too early? I think that is a question that can only be answered by each person going to see it. I think it could be good for some people to see it, to fully get a grasp on what happened. I mean, if you think about it? Yes, we all remember very vividly what happened that day, but someone like my brother who was 17 or my sister who was 10 when it all happened, and didn't really understand the events of that day could learn a lot from seeing this movie now at an age where they are old enough to start understanding what happened. I think as long as people don't go into it expecting to be entertained, then it's okay.

[KaliLily]

I agree with whoever said that the money made from this movie should go to charity.

Katie Couric interviewed 2 family members and the movie director on the Today show yesterday, and it was said that 10% of the profits from the 1st three days will go to a 9/11 Fund.

[KarenS]

f you're trying to make it seem like I, or anyone else posting here who experienced 9/11 firsthand, have said they have ownership of that day or should be the only ones making political decisions based on the attack is untrue.Uh ... that's not at all what I said. My whole discussion here is based on the use of the word "lived through it". AS though only people who were actually in NYC "lived through" what happened that day.

I did say that it surprises me that the same people who were in NYC on 9/11 are very vocally anti-war/anti-patriot act/anti-bush. You'd think the opposite would be true.Uh, maybe because the war has nothing to do with what happened on 9/11? And maybe because some people feel that Bush has *used* 9/11 to forward his own agenda which has nothign to do with fighting terrorism. And maybe because some people feel that the Patriot Act is *using* 9/11 as a scare tactic seriously violate of Americans' civil rights? And one doesn't have had to be in NYC or out of NYC to feel that way.

I'm not sure why you'd want to take on more of the trauma that you were lucky enough to have avoided. I never said that either, and I have no idea where you're getting that from my words.

You can try to twist my words all you like.
You are the one twisting *my* words and then getting hostile and attacking about it. All I've done is tried to explain how I feel to the people who have said that if you weren't in NYC you didn't "live through it". Your interpretations above bear no resemblence whatsoever to anything I've said.

Karen

[kiddo]

When I first saw the preview for the movie I was horrified and angry. It was probably the same one bethnjim saw. I was sitting there waiting for a light-hearted comedy to start and BAM, smacked in the face with images of the towers.

Honestly, there has been so much co-opting of 9/11 by the current administration that I gut reaction was that this was an attempt by someone on the right to booster support for the Iraq war. I was reminded of a post on WC back on the start of the Iraq war that was titled something like 'For those of you against the war' and had a link to a 9/11 tribute website.

Since I have heard more about the movie and now know the families are supportive, I feel differently. If the families are ok with this and it does not in any way push any political agenda, I see nothing wrong with it. I still won't be seeing it in the theaters, but maybe someday I will on video.

[Lisa]

Having lived through 9/11 in NYC, I think it time for this movie. The people on that flight were amazing and I think their story should be heard. If the families of those heroes are ready for the movie to be made, who am I to say different?

Before 9/11 became so politicized, it was a story of the incredible courage of people to fight against the terrorists and the police/firefighters who saved so many of the people a the WTC and Pentagon.

I recently saw the preview (complete with clips from the movie) at a theater in Times Square - there were no boo's in my theater. I think living through 9/11 actually makes me feel more ready for the movie, as well as the WTC movie this Fall. It's certainly not going to be as emotionally exhausting as what I already went through that day.


I totally agree. These people were heros and if their families want us to hear there story I'm all for it. They gave their lives to save others. That in itself is amazing to me.

[kedzieb]

I totally agree. These people were heros and if their families want us to hear there story I'm all for it. They gave their lives to save others. That in itself is amazing to me.

Thank you for understanding what I was trying to say. I didn't intend for there to be all this confusion.

[looch]

Holy cannoli, what happened in here?

As I was reading along, I was hoping that the discussion could be kept to the movie and whether people were ready for it, not whether people who were physically present or lost a person close to them were more affected than people who weren't in the areas.

I agree with the PP who said that bit about Katrina...that probably sums my feelings up the best.

[tgray99]

Let's look at the concern of "it's too soon" and "it's horrific an event to even make a movie about it" from a historical context.

This is certainly not the first attack by a foreign entity on US soil. For the sake of argument let's limit it to the last 60 years...and we have Pearl Harbor.

Less than 2 years after the attack on Pearl Harbor a movie was made about it called "December 7, 1941" which won an Academy Award. There have been numerous other movies made regarding the event which until 9/11 was the worst attack on US soil.

For those of you who think we won't forget 9/11, ask a regular schmo, born a generation or more after Pearl Harbor, what happened December 7, 1941, and I bet you that they won't be able to answer correctly. Sadly, incredibly sadly, things like this fade from the national consciousness, and a generation from now, kids might learn about 9/11 in schools but probably not (NYC and DC kids more likely than anyone).

I believe this movie was made to remind the general public of the pain we felt and to help them remember how much our nation came together immediately after. There were no party lines, nothing like that...we were all proud to be Americans. Now it's all become so politicized that I think that a movie like this is just what we need to jolt us back to the fact that we CANNOT become lazy or indifferent or arrogant. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

[KarenS]

ask a regular schmo, born a generation or more after Pearl Harbor, what happened December 7, 1941, and I bet you that they won't be able to answer correctly. Yes and no. You're probably right that a lot of people who are ... let's say under 30 ... couldn't identify the event by the exact date. But I'll bet if you asked them more generally about WWII and Pearl Harbor, they could tell you what happened. Just as if you asked someone 70 years from now what happened in NYC at the beginning of the century, they'd probably be able to tell you the events ... if not the exact date.

Karen

[kari]

Haven't seen it yet, don't know if I am going to. Anyone see it?

[Lisa]

there's actually a huge thread on this, I'll try to find it;)

[kari]

oh thanks, I did a search and it mostly came up with Journals

[Lisa]

Bump!

[Rosebud]

My DH saw the movie this weekend and thought it was very, very good. He came home saying that he thought it'd be a Best Picture nominee. I just wasn't ready to relive that day, so I didn't go see it with him. DH said it was completely non-political, just about what supposedly happened on that plane and not at all overwrought. He said he was suprised that it wasn't more "emotional" somehow-- that he didn't cry.

I saw this really interesting interview on Ain't It Cool News today about United 93. The interview is with Andrew Bernstein, whose uncle died on the flight. He also happens to work in Hollywood and gave a really thoughtful interview about what he thinks of the finished movie and how the whole experience was for him, emotionally. Very interesting perspective, as a family member.

Andrew Bernstein interview about United 93 (http://aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=23185)

I'm actually kind of glad someone made a movie about this (and someone as talented as director Paul Greengrass-- his movie "Bloody Sunday," about another horrifying, real life event was mesmerizing). I think a movie is something our kids and grandkids will be able to watch and gain a little insight as to what happened that day, much like we've watched Pearl Harbor/World War II movies and seen that time in a more personal light. I think it'll always be hard for most of us who actually lived through it to watch, though.

[JBB]

My husband and I went to see the movie this weekend. It is reall well done! It makes you think and makes you understand as much as one can what happened on that plane. It also makes you feel proud of every single one of the passengers and crew on that flight.

What we liked best was that no one person was singled out as a hero-they were all heros.

I understand people not being ready to see it, but for people who are I think they will agree that it was well done, and a great movie to make sure we never forget what happened on that day and also what else could have happened had the passengers on United 93 not fought back!

[kari]

There was a couple from I believe Santa Rosa who had gotten off a cruise ship in NY on Sept 10, had flights booked to San Francisco on United 93 for Sept 11. They instead found and booked themselves on a flight the evening of Sept 10.

I won't see this movie in the theatre, I did see the preview 2 weeks ago and teared up and thought to myself "I don't want to see it".