Charting-to-Avoid Volume 3 -- No babies right now!

[kemaji]

If you're just curious about charting, looking for answers about your chart, or if you are interested in joining our ranks or joining our discussion, we welcome you. (We welcome lurkers, too!) Feel free to browse through the wonderful information our resident charting "gurus" have prepared on this page and don't be afraid to ask questions!

What We Do
We are a group of women who are using charting, whether on paper and/or through a software program (Fertility Friend, Ovusoft, Babymed, etc.) to PREVENT pregnancy. Many of us have been on some form of hormonal birth control and for whatever reason, decided to stop in favor of charting our cycles. Some women here are just charting for a bit before moving to TTC in the next few months while others are using charting to avoid pregnancy longer term.

How We Learned
Aside from this thread, most of us have read the book Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Wechsler to learn about our cycles and how to chart. Others of us have taken classes and read the book The Art of Natural Family Planning by John and Sheila Kippley. Many of us have also read Fertility, Cycles and Nutrition by Marilyn Shannon, to learn a little more how food and vitamins affect and can improve our cycles. We encourage you to read one or more of the books about charting to enhance your understanding of how you can use your body's signs for safe, effective, and relatively low cost birth control.

TTA Masters : Members, past members, and grads from WC who have successfully charted to avoid for one year or more:

Amy_Awesome ~ ADSigMel ~ Ani ~ bijouparvin ~ Camdynlyn ~ chinadoll ~ christie1979 ~ Clattercote ~ eagleswings ~ elizabeth&doug ~ EmilyBronte ~ flygirl ~ Heather 8> (five years) ~ Hammie ~ Ivansbabe ~ Jess12/09 ~ jobride ~ JulAmber ~ JulesHK ~ JulesWed1025 ~ kanga1622 (2 years) ~ kemaji ~ Leilynne ~ Lege ~ LeslieandPaul ~ LIZNKEITH ~ Mamacita ~ meagle (3 years) ~ mistytsim ~ mmeblue ~ motray36 ~ MrsKinnison ~ myhoni ~ Mystikal ~ PalmBch2002 ~ quartercentury (2 years) ~ Rach_in_Oz (2 years)~ Sabriel748 ~ sensibility ~ Sevilla (2 years) ~ sfaugustbride ~ Sheartm7 ~ tippyanddennis ~ tlew12778 ~ TStanek

[kemaji]

Charting can seem overwhelming at first--so much information, confusing body signs, and worries about whether getting up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom will affect your temps.

We've all been there--it's normal to feel concerned that you're not going to be able to interpret your body. We all felt the same way the first cycle or two. But as you go you will gain confidence in your ability to interpret your fertility signs, and you'll find yourself knowing the answer to people's questions on this thread.

You may also be surprised at how excited you get about the project of charting because of how much you learn about your body. As I like to say, "It's so interesting isn't it? Like this science experiment you constantly have with you to monitor!"

These next few posts are full of important information about charting. If the explanations seem confusing or overwhelming at first, don't let that scare you away from the thread. They are here for those of us in the thread to refer back to when we have questions or are explaining something.

Just because there's a brief explanation of checking CM or how to find your cervix does not mean that you shouldn't post questions about it. Please feel free to ask us if you're trying to figure something out (like whether the CM you're having is considered 'fertile') and we'll be happy to help you. The ladies on this thread are super-friendly and love answering questions.

This thread can seem intimidating once it gets to a few hundred posts. But please don't let that stop you from joining! You don't have to catch up on the whole thread, just read the first page and then post to introduce yourself, whether it be page 5 or page 35.

Special thanks to Sevilla, Heather8^), meagle and myhoni for their assistance in developing these information posts.

[kemaji]

To start charting you will need a basal body thermometer (available at your local drugstore and Drugstore.com BBT for $12.79)

http://a1468.g.akamai.net/f/1468/580/1d/pics.drugstore.com/prodimg/40512/300.jpg

Internet Resources:

Printable charts
NFP and TCOYF charts are available online for on-demand printing. You need Adobe Reader to access them:
NFP chart (http://www.ccli.org/images/ccchrt1.pdf)
TCOYF (http://tcoyf.com/library/chartpdf.asp)

Family Planning Abbreviations and Acronyms (http://boards.weddingcha nnel.com/showthread.php?s=& ;threadid=364548&highlight =abbreviations)

Charting Software:
Discussion of various charting programs
DISCLAIMER: These programs should not be relied upon to interpret your chart for you. Very often they miscalculate the day of ovulation and the coverline. You need to learn the method well enough to calculate your coverline and ovulation days because ultimately YOU are responsible for taking charge of your fertility.
www.fertilityfriend.com
www.tcoyf.com
www.babymed.com

Message boards, chart galleries, and other resources:
TCOYF Message Boards (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/)
www.fertilityfriend.com
www.ccli.org NFP~Natural Family Planning. The Couple to Couple League website - includes links to charting classes in your area

Search for Charting-Friendly Healthcare Providers
TCOYF (http://tcoyf.com/protcoyf/search.asp)
NFP (http://www.omsoul.com/)

Explanations of Charting
Helping identify the Changes in CM (http://www.fertilityuk.org/nfps401.html)
Different CF/CM Types (http://www.webwomb.com/cervical_mucus_page.htm)
Charting 'cliff notes' site (http://www.fertilityuk.org/nfps25.html)
Garden of Fertility (http://www.gardenoffertility.com/)

[kemaji]

You will want to purchase one (or both) of these books to help you learn the method of charting. If possible, you may find that taking classes from the Couple to Couple League or other organizations that teach charting (listed in the appendixes of TCOYF) is very helpful. Taking classes can help you to learn to chart more effectively, plus you have expert instructors to advise you about your charts and answer your questions.

Reviews of NFP/TCOYF Books by Sevilla
Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Weschler (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=EY7nd3rBoX&isbn=0060937645&itm=1)

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/5400000/5401941.gif

Pro's:
* Very comprehensive book that focuses not just on charting but on female health in general, including fertility problems, pregnancy, understanding the menstrual cycle, and overall gynecological health.
* Written in layman's terms for good reader comprehension
* The explanation of how to expel semen through Kegels was very helpful
* Excellent list of resources and nutritional considerations to aid in cycle regularity and pregnancy
* Chapter on medications that can interfere with fertility signs
* How to adjust temps (+/-.1 degrees F per half hour) is very helpful
* Color photos of different types of CM help to interpret it

Cons:
* The rules for determining pre-o safe days are too limited-Not every woman can use the Dry Day Rule unless she gets at least 5 days of fertile mucus. If you're one of the people who only get 1-2 days of fertile mucus, then you could potentially have sex just a day or two before ovulation--and get pregnant.
* The explanation of the rules for determining post-o infertility is not specific enough and readers of the book could misunderstand it. I have had cycles in which I was at Peak Day +4/5 when I had a temp rise, and following her rules I could have gotten pregnant. It should more strongly emphasize that you need both the drying up and 3 days of temp rise to be safe (it does say this, but I thought it was a bit ambiguous).
* Not enough explanation of method effectiveness depending on which rule is used


The Art of Natural Family Planning by John & Sheila Kippley (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=EY7nd3rBoX&isbn=0926412132&itm=1)

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/1720000/1727057.gif

Pro's:
* This is the more technical manual about charting, it's is very specifically focused on teaching the method with scientific language
* It devotes 150 pages just to the basics of charting, not including the additional 200 pages on special situations, pregnancy, and cycle irregularity.
* Very specific rules and methods: 4 different rules to determine your last safe day for unprotected sex pre-o, and 4 different rules to determine your post-o infertility (this lets you choose which rules work best with your body)
* 24 "practice" charts (actual examples of women's charts) with complete explanations and interpretations that cover the whole range of situations encountered
* Detailed explanation of the Last Dry Day Rule (see below for the entire explanation)
* 20 page explanation of effectiveness rates for each individual rule (there's a higher pregnancy rate with using the Last Dry Day rule than using the 5 day rule)
* Excellent list of resources and nutritional considerations to aid in cycle regularity and pregnancy
* Chapter on medications that can interfere with fertility signs

Cons:
* Doesn't address disorders like Endometriosis or PCOS.
* Very dogmatic in its discussion of the "immorality of contraception" and sexual morality from a Catholic perspective
* Information presented in a very technical manner-may be daunting to someone just learning the method

Fertility, Cycles & Nutrition (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=EY7nd3rBoX&isbn=0926412094&itm=1)

http://images.barnesandnoble.com/images/5020000/5021060.gif

This book examines the ways that nutrition and vitamins affect the fertility cycle. Many women on this thread have helped to regulate their hormones and cycles by following the suggestions in this book and it is very insightful into how our everyday decisions about what to eat affects our fertility and cycles.

[kemaji]

Figuring out your Cervical Mucus/Fluid

Dry:
1. Stick a finger in your mouth. Now look at it--this is what it means to be "dry." Your vagina always produces fluid that keeps it clean, this is different from the cervical mucus described below.
2. On dry days you will not have any CM in your undies.

Less-fertile mucus (can be part of BIP-Basic Infertile Pattern or can indicate that you are fertile):
1. Sticky/Tacky CM: Stretches 1/2" or less before breaking. The strands that stretch are very thin.
2. Globby CM (this is my special name for it ): White globs that form little peaks when i stretch my fingers apart. Varies in quantity from almost none to a good amount. Always visible dried in my undies in rectangular/lines like described in TCOYF.

Fertile Mucus: Once you have any type in this category consider yourself fertile until your after your temperature rises--even if your fertile CM dries up for a few days. Stretchiness is very important in determining fertile CM. If in doubt, ask us and we'll help you with your chart!
1. Stretchy Mucus: Stretches 1" or more.
2. EWCM Mucus: Stretches a LOT (up to several inches) and is also very wide when I separate my fingers. Very similar to egg white.
3. Watery: I only see this in my underwear when I’m fertile. It looks like I've "leaked" but I know it's CM. It makes wet circles just like TCOYF describes.
4. Creamy: Looks like runny hand lotion. I get this in my underwear and it forms white spots or patches in my undies and they are sometimes in the middle of watery CM in my undies.

Peak Day: Peak Day is what lets you use your mucus sign to figure out your infertile period after ovulating. Your peak day is your last day of more-fertile mucus before you start drying up. It is NOT necessarily the day with the greatest quantity or quality of mucus, just your last day before you start drying up (meaning you may still have mucus, it will just be tacky instead of EWCM). You only know your Peak Day in hindsight, for obvious reasons. The reason it's useful is that you crosscheck your thermal shift with your peak-day to make sure you're past your fertile stage so you can have unprotected sex.

Figuring out your cervix
Some women find it helpful to use their cervical position (CP) as a third sign in addition to CM and temperatures. If you do not find it helpful or your cervix does not seem to follow a pattern, don't worry about it. You don't have to use your CP and you will still be able to chart effectively.

For those who are interested in charting their CP...here's some advice for common questions:

1. I can't find my cervix!: Just like putting in a tampon for the first time, finding your cervix takes a few tries. Here are some tips:
* Your cervix is the only thing "up there" so if your fingers are touching something, congratulate yourself on finding your cervix.
* Angle is very important-Aim back at an angle for your tailbone instead of straight up and you will find it much more quickly. After charting for 7 months, I still sometimes I feel like I have to search around for it for a few seconds--but that's only when i put my fingers in at the wrong angle.
* Check it during the afternoon or evening (it may be difficult to find in the morning because lying flat while sleeping makes it higher until gravity brings it back down)
* During certain parts of your cycle it may be too high to reach so if you can't find it, try again in a few days.

2. So I've found it, now what? It will take a few cycles to learn your cervix pattern. There are three different changes a cervix undergoes (find which changes are most obvious in your cervix and disregard those that don't seem to correspond):
* Firm to Soft: A firm cervix feels like the tip of your nose, a soft cervix feels like your lips. When your cervix softens this may mean that you are fertile or soon to be fertile. Your cervix may also feel soft right after AF.
* Low to High: Around the time of ovulation the cervix gets higher and after ovulation it drops down to a lower position.
* Closed to Open: If you have not delivered a baby, then you might not be able to feel the difference between closed and open. The cervix opens slightly right around ovulation and closes very tight after ovulation.

[kemaji]

TCOYF Rules for determining safe days for sex Pre-Ovulation

Rule 1: You are safe the first 5 days of your menstrual cycle if you had a thermal shift 12-16 days before (this is so that you don't confuse menstruation with spotting or other non-menstrual bleeding)

Rule 2: Before Ovulation you are safe the evening of every dry day.

In order to use this rule, you need to have at least a 5-day patch of fertile cervical mucus (or if you have mucus all the time like me, at least a 5 day patch of more FERTILE mucus). It is better if you have a 6 or more day patch, but 5 is the bare minimum. (you need at least 6 charts to tell if you get this much fertile CM as a warning-many women only get 2 or 3 days, which is normal but not enough warning for this rule).

The Last Dry Day rule says that you can consider yourself infertile as long as you don't have any mucus (or fertile mucus). Checking your mucus is very important, because the sperm lives less than 24 hours in a non-fertile environment but in fertile mucus they live for up to 5 days-some super-swimmers for even longer. This rule works best if you do your cervical mucus checks INTERNALLY.

If you are going to use the Last Dry Day rule, there are some particular rules to follow so that you don't misread your signs:
1. Don't have sex 2 days in a row-just every other day. This is so your CM sign isn't obscured by semen residue (SR). (Unless you expel the semen like Toni says in TCOYF and there's no residue the next day to obscure your CM sign)
2. Don't have unprotected sex in the mornings. The reason for this is that your mucus flow may start that day, and you wouldn't have been able to tell it in the morning, and thus the sperm could still have a chance of surviving and catching the egg.

NFP Rules for determining safe days for sex Pre-Ovulation
1. 6 Day Rule: Almost all women can use this unless you have cycles 25 days or shorter (in which case you go to only CD5). It says that you can have unprotected sex the first 6 days of the cycle (CD1 starts with the 1st day of AF).
***You can use the 6-day rule right away. However, you should not go beyond it until you have a few charts to reference. Be especially careful not to take chances your first cycle off of BCP, as many women are extra-fertile in that cycle.***

2. 20 Day rule (requires at least 6-12 charts for accuracy): Take your shortest cycle and subtract 20, the answer is your last "safe day." Example: If my cycles range from 30-36 days. 30-20=10. Thus, CD10 is my last day to have unprotected sex.

3. The Doering Rule = earliest day of thermal shift -7. (Requires 6 regular(!) charts, ideally 12 charts) Using your chart history, locate the earliest day of thermal shift. Subtract 7 from the day and that is your last fertile day.
Example: If you have 32-36 day cycles and your thermal shift has been between cycle days 20-24, CD20 is your earliest day of thermal shift. 20-7 is 13. Thus, CD13 would be considered your last infertile day (Last day of Phase I in NFP book).

All the rules for determining "safe sex" times pre-O are subordinate to the Last Dry Day rule. You are still supposed to start checking CM by CD6 (according to the NFP book) while you rely on the other rules. If you get fertile CM super-early it takes precedence over everything else because sometimes our bodies do randomly ovulate earlier than normal.

4. Last Dry Day Rule (most popular rule b/c it makes the fertile window a lot shorter. BUT it also has a higher pregnancy rate than the other rules).

In order to use this rule, you need to have at least a 5-day mucus patch (or if you have mucus all the time like me, at least a 5 day patch of more FERTILE mucus). It is better if you have a 6 or more day patch, but 5 is the bare minimum. (you need at least 6 charts to tell if you get this much fertile CM as a warning-many women only get 2 or 3 days, which is normal but not enough warning for this rule).

The Last Dry Day rule says that you can consider yourself infertile as long as you don't have any mucus (or fertile mucus). Checking your mucus is very important, because the sperm lives less than 24 hours in a non-fertile environment but in fertile mucus they live for up to 5 days. This rule works best if you do your cervical mucus checks INTERNALLY.

If you are going to use the Last Dry Day rule, there are some particular rules to follow so that you don't misread your signs:
1. Don't have sex 2 days in a row-just every other day. This is so your CM sign isn't obscured by semen residue (SR). (Unless you expel the semen like Toni says in TCOYF and there's no residue the next day to obscure your CM sign)
2. Don't have unprotected sex in the mornings. The reason for this is that your mucus flow may start that day, and you wouldn't have been able to tell it in the morning, and thus the sperm could still have a chance of surviving and catching the egg.

TCOYF Rules for Post-Ovulation

Rule 3: You are safe the evening of the third day your temperature is above the coverline.

Rule 4: You are safe the evening of the 4th consecutive day after your Peak day.

**Both rules have to be met to be considered 'safe,' if you're going to go by temps alone you should have 4-5 days of thermal shift (according to the NFP book)**

NFP rules for Post-Ovulation (Phase III)

Each rule involves a combination of temp rises and CM dry up. Also, these rules presuppose determining your coverline by NFP rules instead of TCOYF rules.

These rules (except the most conservative Rule C) are based on the principle that the stronger the thermal shift, the fewer days of drying up required. Conversely, the weaker the thermal shift, the more days of drying up required.

Because each woman has a different CM and temp pattern, these rules allow you to choose the one that fits YOUR pattern. (For me, I use Rule B because I dry up 2-4 days before my thermal shift and have a gradual rise)

Rule C (most conservative): The 3rd day or more of Full Thermal Shift cross-checked by 4 or more days of drying-up, whichever comes later.

Rule K (more emphasis on full thermal shift): The 3rd day of Full Thermal Shift cross-checked by 2-3 days of drying up past Peak Day.

Rule R: The 3rd day of drying up past Peak Day cross-checked by 3 consecutive days of strong thermal shift past Peak Day.

Rule B (more emphasis on the drying up): The 4th day (or more) of drying up past Peak Day cross-checked by 3 (or more) days of Overall (or Strong) Thermal Shift past Peak Day.

Definitions:
1. Full Thermal Shift: Three or more consecutive days of temps which are at least .4 degrees above your lower temp level (pre-O temps)
2. Strong Thermal Shift: Temperatures on three consecutive days are at least .2 degrees above your lower temp level and the last temp is at or above .4 degrees over your lower temp level
3. Overall Thermal Shift (Gradual): Three or more temps are at least .1 degrees above the lower temp level, they are in a rising or elevated pattern, and at least one of them reaches at or above .4 degrees over your lower temp level.

Temperature Only Rule ("Coming off the Pill" rule): You can safely have sex on the evening of the 5th day of thermal shift when the last three temperatures are on consecutive days and are at least .3 degrees above your pre-O temperature level.

Coverlines

How to draw a coverline according to NFP:

1. Look at the six temps that you had before your temp rise, take the highest of those temps and draw a line across your chart - this is your low temperature level (LTL). (For me, my low temp level is always 98.0. My pre-shift 6 could be 98.0, 97.7, 97.8, 98.0, 97.9, and 97.7 and then i would draw the line at 98.0). Your pre-o temps should mostly fall at or below this low temp level, though there are exceptions like high temps during AF and a pre-shift spike
2. To determine your high temp level (HTL), and thus your thermal shift, draw a line .4 degree above your low temp level (For me, my low temp level of 98.0 gives me a high temp level of 98.4)
**A gradual thermal rise is one that doesn't reach to the high temp level right away, but the temps are above your low temp level

This is how I calculate my coverline, though my NFP book refers only to low temp level and high temp level. I have no idea how FF calculates my coverline but it doesn't make sense to me because it's always really low, like this month it says its 97.7, although my low temp level is 98.0 using the method described above.

How to draw a coverline according to TCOYF

1. Identify the first day your temp rises at least two-tenths of a degree higher than it had been the previous six days.
2. Highlight the last six temps before the rise.
3. Locate the highest of those six highlighted temps.
4. Draw the coverline one-tenth of a degree above the highest of that cluster of six days preceding the rise.

[kemaji]

What to expect when charting after taking the pill

Your body may hold on to some of the hormones from the pill, so it is generally accepted that the first three cycles post-pill may be slightly wacky because of these remaining hormones. After the 3-month mark, it is assumed that these hormones are gone, and any chart wackiness that remains is au natural.

Seriously speaking, some of the things that you may see include inconsistent CM observations or observations that don't make much sense (e.g., continuous creamy CM, patches of EWCM at different parts of your cycle, mid-cycle spotting, etc.). Also, you may ovulate right on schedule; however, several women also experience short, long, or anovulatory cycles right off the pill.

If you see these things happen in your first few charts, pay them no attention. Don't think that the pill has permanently damaged you (in 99% of cases of anovulatory cycles post-pill, the pill is NOT to blame), and don't worry that you may be observing your signs incorrectly. You could be 100% correct, but your body may be giving you a pretty hard exam! If these symptoms continue after charting for a while, then you may want to talk to us, do your own research, and talk to your doctor if they concern you because they may be symptoms of other things such as PCOS, etc.

There are other things that you may notice once you're off the pill that are relatively common. Many women experience some random spotting, weight loss, heavier or longer-lasting periods; more painful cramps; increased severity of other PMS symptoms such as bloating, irritability, sore breasts; changed skin characteristics (more/less acne or natural oils), etc. However, you'll also learn more about your body and your fertility and have a much clearer idea of what is going on at every step than you ever knew before!

Also, realize that the pill really has not permanently changed your body, and the cycle characteristics that you had BEFORE the pill are most likely going to return. That's why many women experience the aforementioned symptoms (because the hormones in the pill lessened the symptoms you had before). Also, if you had irregular cycles before, they will probably come back; but this time, through charting, you will know what is going on!

If there's one thing you will learn in this thread, it is that everybody and every body is different. Try not to compare your charts too much to others, especially in the first months after the pill because those charts are not entirely reliable. Use this time as an opportunity to practice checking the fertility signs and to learn as much as you can, and then use charts 4-6 to get a strong handle on your individual signs, what they mean, and how to use them to avoid pregnancy.

[kemaji]

What to do with irregular sleeping schedules

Do you always get up at 4:00am to go to the bathroom? Does your DH wake up before you and interrupt your sleep? Is the dog full of energy and very LOUD for 1/2 hour before the alarm goes off?

Worry not! The general consensus around here is that these things are bound to happen. Yes, TCOYF recommends that you take your temperature at the exact same time every morning, before getting out of bed, after at least 3 hours of uninterrupted sleep, and under the same sleeping conditions every night. This helps you get the most accurate temperatures, and can make your chart much easier to read.

Here in the real world, we realize this isn't always possible. So, our advice is as follows:

Whatever you do, try your hardest to be consistent. Do make a big effort to temp at the same time every day, and mark your chart if you temp early or later than usual. If the goodbye kiss from your DH wakes you up 1/2 hour before your alarm does (and you temp after the alarm), just make sure he kisses you every day!

Also, do temp before getting out of bed. Most of us have noticed that our temps do NOT change that much by an emergency potty break, but it's best to get it done before you get out of bed to eliminate the risk of noise and of accidentally forgetting!

Do use a basal body thermometer, and use the same thermometer every time, even when traveling. This reduces any "noise" that you may get from thermometers with slightly different calibrations.

Mark your chart with anything out of the norm. If it was extra cold out and you used an additional blanket, note that on your chart. If your pajamas were in the wash and you slept nude, note that on your chart. Did you go out to party and went to bed super late last night? Write it down. Did you have any drinks yesterday at that party? Definitely write that down! Some of these things make a BIG difference on your chart, and you'll rest easier and we'll be better able to interpret that chart knowing what was going on.

Lastly, don't worry if you forget one temp or sleep in late once or twice. It happens, and it rarely makes your chart totally useless. But remember that the most and best info that you can get really helps avoid stress later. (And if we're talking about the different between a BFN and a BFP, the LAST thing we need is more stress!)

[kemaji]

Software analysis
based on meagle's use of each for several months

Fertility Friend
Pros
*Basic service is free and you can access it from any computer
*In recording the cervix sign, there are separate options for high/medium/low and soft/medium/firm (this can be more accurate and also help beginners who can only ascertain one of the two parts of the cervix sign)
*It is easy to override
*There are more options for other factors/symptoms – you can record alcohol use, exercise, headaches, cramps, etc.
*There is a choice for “watery” CM, which is a fertile type that is kind of creamy, kind of EW

Cons
*It is designed for women seeking pregnancy
*Only two charts can be posted at one time for those choosing the free service
*VIP service is more expensive than Ovusoft (but VIP is not necessary or recommended for TTAers)

Ovusoft
Pros
*It is for women who are avoiding or seeking pregnancy – you can set it to show when your fertile time starts (based on last dry day rule, first five day rule, your typical CM pattern, etc. – however, remember not to totally trust the software for post-O fertility/infertility!)
*You can show whether intercourse was protected or unprotected
*There are features to calculate future fertility (cycle forecasting) and best time to conceive based upon a preferred due date (delivery planner)
*The graphics are cool
*The rules the software follows are more closely linked to TCOYF, since the software was developed for this purpose
*There are reports you can print for your doctor, etc.
*All of your charts can be posted at once
*There is a pop-up box each day that details what is happening (hormonally) in your body depending upon where you are in your cycle
*There is a pop-up reminder to do a monthly breast self-exam
*You record your CM and your vaginal sensation (dry, moist, wet, lubricative)

Cons
*It costs about $40
*You have to find it on the internet on CD-ROM or download it
*The program runs from your hard drive and you “publish” your charts – if you are away from home and don’t have a laptop, there is no way to update your charts until you get back to YOUR computer with YOUR database
*The cervix sign combines both aspects, that is low=firm, medium=medium, high=soft
*It is not compatible with Macintosh/Apple
*It is more difficult to override calculations
*Your database could be wiped out (like any document on your HD) so you need to back it up frequently
*There are fewer choices for other factors affecting one’s chart – no choice for headache, cramps, etc.
*You must have Java scripts enabled to view others' web-based charts

Summary reviewWhat finally made me switch was the recent update in Ovusoft’s software which made it possible to publish protected intercourse versus unprotected intercourse, some pressure I got from ladies on the Ovusoft boards (they’re a different bunch than the WC crowd), and the fact that I’m in this charting thing for the long haul – I will be TTA for at least two more years and then I will use charting to TTC. It seemed like a worthwhile investment, especially since it was only a bit less than two months of BCP copays. Fertility Friend is a good service for sharing one’s charts with others on the thread, but it you’re enticed by cool graphics, reports, features, etc. – then you’ll get tired of it pretty quickly.
04.2004

If you choose not to chart online, here are a couple links to places where you can download printable charts:

http://www.fertilitynetwork.com/ovulation/ovulation-calendars.htm
http://www.babycentre.co.uk/general/7069.html
http://www.babycenter.com/general/preconception/gettingpregnant/7069.html

[kemaji]

The manager for this thread is kemaji.

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Please post updates in red so they are visible to the thread managers.

If you have previously been a member and you do not see your stats on this list just repost them in the current thread and you’ll be added again.

How to share your TTA chart with the rest of us

That is, if you don’t mind potential chart stalkers

How To Link Ovusoft Charts
From the software, go to File --> Publish Charts to Web --> WebCharts Publishing Wizard

Follow instructions to set up online account (username and password), then when complete, you will see a screen that gives the location of your web charts (for if you want to put it in your signature, etc.).

Every time you update your chart (or once a day or once a week) from now on, just go to File --> Publish Charts to Web --> Quickie! and it will update your web chart with the new information.

You may link your chart in your siggy, and/or ask to have it linked through your name on the roll call on page 1 of this thread.

How to upload Fertility Friend
Login to FF, you should be in "My Chart". Click on the "Sharing” button (4th button on the top). From there, click on the "Home Page/Ticker Setup" button. Scroll down to the bottom of the page, there will be a box on the right hand side that says "Available Charts". Double click on your current chart, then hit the button that says "Add Chart". Page should refresh automatically, and your chart should now be in a box on the left side (on the bottom of the page). At the top of the page, you'll see a red URL. That's the link to your home page, with your pretty chart on it. It's yours for the copying. Make sure that you click "Save Settings" if you make any changes to the settings.

Also in the home page, you can change any settings, like to publish DTD or not. If you want to let everyone see when you've made a note in your chart (where a circle becomes a square) click on the “My Settings" tab.

What do all those letters mean?

Most commonly used abbreviations in here:

Anti-grad: Is a person who was TTA and became pregnant. In the history of this group (started Fall 2002) we have never had someone become pregnant when following the rules. Every one of our antigrads can point to the rule(s) they broke when they conceived their bundles of joy and they're the first to say that charting does work!
AF: Aunt Flow, your period. Lovely monthly (or nearly monthly) visitor, at least if you are TTA.
BC: Birth Control
BD: Baby-Dancing (sex). You'll see this term in the older threads... now we use DTD since we don't wanna be making no babies in the TTA thread!!
CM: Cervical Mucus or fluid, also used for Creamy cervical mucus
CP: Cervical Position
DPO: Days Past Ovulation, or days into the luteal phase.
DTD: Doing The Deed! (sex for fun, not baby-making)
EWCM: Egg-White Cervical Mucus, the most fertile type
HPT: Home Pregnancy Test
FAM: Fertility Awareness Method, charting and using BC during the fertile period
FF: Fertility Friend (www.fertilityfriend.com), which is a free on-line charting service. You can also have VIP privileges for a fee.**
Graduate: A person who successfully TTAs and then moves on to TTC.
LP: luteal phase, or the time after ovulation. This is usually determined by the time between the beginning of your thermal shift through the arrival of your period.
NFP: Natural Family Planning, same as FAM but involves abstaining during the fertile period
O: Ovulation
pg: Pregnant
POAS: Pee On A Stick (that is, take an HPT)
TCOYF: Taking Charge of Your Fertility
TTA: Trying To Avoid (makin' babies or getting pregnant)
TTC: Trying To Conceive
UDD: Unprotected Deed-Doing. That is, sex with no other form of birth control other than FAM. A true sign of a confident TTAer! ONLY DURING THE INFERTILE TIME (unless you want to be an antigrad)

[kemaji]

Who We Are


abear (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/cde5c)
Real name: Alyssa (25)
DH's name: Paul (26)
Occupation: creative manager
Married: July 10, 2004
Started charting: July 2005
TTC: Late 2007-2008

ADSigMel (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/9fd5e) (melodymarie83 on WC)
Name: Melody (22)
FH's name: Ali (25)
Occupation: Law Student
Married : November 19, 2005!
Started charting March 2005
TTC: 2007

AHammer (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ahammer)
Real name: amy (23)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: michael (22)
Occupation: teacher
Married (date of or date planned): july 30, 2005
Started charting (date, if known): october 4, 2005
TTC: summer of 2008

akacharlotte (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/dd10b)
Real name: Stacey(33)
BF's name: Jason (30)
Occupation: CSR
Married (date of or date planned): Not married but going ring shopping this weekend
Started charting (date, if known): 01/06
TTC: after we get married

angelpalgt (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/105b00)
Real name: Kendra (25)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Josh (25)
Occupation: User Experience Developer/Project Liaison
Married (date of or date planned): 05/17/2003
Started charting (date, if known):12/12/2005
TTC: someday

angelraven (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/c822b)
Real name: Heather (22)
FH's name: Matt (22)
Occupation: Network Administrator (me) Programmer (him)
Married: July 31st, 2004
Started Charting: July 2005
TTC: End of 2006?

boilermaker (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/eb589)
Real name: Carrie (29)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: John (30)
Occupation: Marketing
Married (date of or date planned): 03.02.02
Started charting (date, if known): 10.02.05
TTC: next summer

candy corn (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/108b75)
Real name: Diane (26)
DH's name: TJ (26)
Occupation: cancer researcher
Married: October 22, 2005
Started charting: December 21, 2005
TTC: 2011

chinadoll (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/7e2e1)
Ovusoft Chart (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=china%5Fdoll)
Name: Rachel (26)
DH: Graham (26)
occupation: part-time grad student, part-time librarian
married: October 16, 2004
started charted: December 2004
TTC: undecided

Cindym
Real name: Cindy (26)
DH's name: Louie (31)
Occupation: paralegal
Married : January 17, 2004
Started charting : Will start April, 2006
TTC: don't know yet

Clattercote (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/81249) (Clatter on WC)
Name: Jana (29)
DH: Andrew (30)
Occupation: Professor at a sm. liberal arts college
Married: 5/21/05
Started Charting: August 2004
TTC: Uhhh... sometime 2006

clzj (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/53585)
Real name: Lynn 31
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Charles 31
Occupation: desktop admin
Married (date of or date planned): Married 6/8/02
Started charting (date, if known): First time 4/04 Got a BFP 3/05, Second Time 12/05
TTC: Sometime 2006
Children: DS (Isaiah) 4/24/03, Angel Baby 10/26/05

dana92504 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/DanaFFChart)
Real name: Dana (24)
DH: Chad (25)
Occupation: Chemical Engineer
Married: 9.25.04
Started charting: August 2005
TTC: probably nevah!

dpangel33 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1177de)
Name: Danea - 23
DH's name: Patrick - 25
Occupation: Admin Asst / Student again in Fall '06
Married : Oct 16, 2005
Started charting: Jan 2006
TTC: 2010

EmilyBronte (also EmilyBronte on LJ)
Age: 29
DH: 37
DS: JFK, born 1/5/05
Occupation: SAHM for now
Married: June 12, 2004
Started charting: Feb 2004 with break for TTC and baby, began again March 2005
TTC: Sometime in 2006

eagleswings (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/44e46)
Name: Erin (21)
DH name: Luke (20)
Married on: June 5, 2005
Charting since: February, 2004
TTC: summer 2006 at the earliest, probably 2007 or later

EmilyZA (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/emilyza)
Real name: Emily (27)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Dan (28)
Occupation: Marketing Support Rep
Married (date of or date planned): Married 9/18/04
Started charting (date, if known): 2/16/06
TTC: Possibly Fall of 2006, we're waiting to buy a house
Children: Just a furbaby-- Vinny, our chocolate lab

filmgirl7
ME: Carrie (28)
DH: Jer (33)
Occupation: teacher
Married (date of or date planned): 1/7/06
Started charting (date, if known): 6/11/06
TTC: hopefully later this year (2006)

FSUSammy
Real name: Sam 26
DH's name: Gary 29
Occupation: Programmer
Married: Married 9/18/04
Started charting (date, if known): Will start 12/05
TTC: ???

granada (umwhee on WC) (30)
DH: DH (35)
Married: August 2004
Started charting: January 2005
TTC: ???

Harmony96 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/d1b58)
Name - Andrea (27)
DH name - Tim (24)
Occupation - waitressing
Married - April 17, 2004
Off pill and charting as of - August, 2005
TTC - January 2006

HisSpicy (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/e2063)
Real name: Natalie (20)
FH's name: Rodney (22)
Occupation: Student
FH's Occupation: Student and Auto Detailer
Married: date not set
Started charting: 9/4/05
TTC: Long time from now!

JubileeDawning
Real name: Melissa (21)
DH's name: Ryan (24)
Occupation: Grad Student and Waitress
Married: May 28, 2005
Started charting: April 18, 2006
TTC: Someday in the distant future

katiej (http://www.tcoyf.com/forum/chart.asp?id=knadikj)
Real name: Katie (23)
DH: Pedro (20)
Occupation: teacher
Married: 22 December 2005
Started charting: 11 September 2005
TTC: hmm...whenever insurance covers it...!

kemaji (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=kemaji)
Name: M (28)
DH's name: B (31)
Occupation: Marketing
Married: July 3, 2005
Started charting (date, if known): September 2004
TTC: 2007?

kissmary (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/112767)
Real name: Mary (27)
DH's name: John (29)
Occupation: Librarian
Married : June 26, 2004
Started charting: July 2005
TTC: ??

KRL626
Real name: Kate (27)
DH's name: Ricardo (27)
Occupation: Teacher
Married 6/26/04
Started Charting: Nov. 04
TTC: Aug/Sept. 07

ktina0803
Real name: Kristina(25)
DH's name: Cory (25)
Occupation: Accountant
Married: 08/09/03
Started charting: 11/17/05
TTC: not for a long time

ladybug1196 (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=ladybug1196)
Real name: Lesley(23)
DH's name: Mike (24)
DD: Lily Janette, 5/9/05
Occupation: SAHM
Married: July 10, 2004
Started charting (date, if known): 11/28/05
TTC: not really sure...maybe late 2007, early 2008

Leilynne
Name: Leilynne (23)
DH: Jon
Occupation: Dietary Aide
Married: May 12 2001
Started charting : March 1, 2004
TTC Date: Never

LeslieandPaul (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/977c7)
me: Leslie, 22, receptionist
FH: Paul, 28, technologist
married: August 20, 2005
started charting: March 2005
TTC: unknown

[kemaji]

Who we are, continued

magrat ( http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/70df2)

mamacita (27)
DH: 25
Kids: 2 dds born August '01 and April '05
Started charting: March 2003
TTC: I think we're done.

meggers (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/9577d)
Real name: Meghan (27)
DH'sname: Jeff (26)
Occupation: Engineer
Married: 6/15/2002
Started charting: 2/2005 (originally), 6/14/2006 (after baby)
TTC: late 2007-2008

meagle (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=martese)
Me = 29
DH = 30
Occupation - Non-profit/manager
Married - May 2000
Started charting - July 2003
TTC date = Late 2006 or early 2007

motray36
Real name: Tracy (26)
Married: June, 2004
Started charting: Oct, 2004
TTC: July 2007

Natrat80 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/ttc2/index.php)
Name: Natalie 26
DH's name: Keri 27
Occupation: SAHM
Married : May 25, 2002
Started Charting: March 2004 (took a break to get pg) & June 2006
TTC: 2007

Pookie Princess (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=pookie%20princess)
Kristi: 27
Sean: 29
Teacher
Married : 10/29/05
Last BCP: 6/2/06
Started charting: 6/5/06
TTC: Summer 2007

raven077 (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=raven077)
Real name: Karen (28)
DH's name: Kyle (29)
Occupation: Graphic Designer
Married: October 29, 2005
Started charting: (mid) March 2006
TTC: October-ish 2006

RobynScott
Real name: Robyn (29)
DH's name: Scott (31)
Occupation: Attorney
Married: August 29, 2004
Started charting (date): January 2006
TTC: Spring 2006

ryansgirl
Me: 24
FH: 28
Occupation: theater/talent mgmt
Will Marry: October 6th, 2006
Off bcp since: never really on it
Started charting: Feb 2006
TTC: 2008

Saathei/pleiades829 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/4a9b2)
Real name: Elizabeth (23)
DH's name: Orion (25)
DDs: Thalia & Michaya, 11 months
Occupation: Student/SAHM
Married (date of or date planned): August 29, 2003
Started charting (date, if known): April '04 (but stopped after getting pg [ON PURPOSE] in September '04)
TTC: 2008 at the earliest, probably 2010

sarahburns
Real name: Sarah Burns, 25
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Jon
Occupation: non-profit MKTG/PR
Married (date of or date planned): June 4, 2005
Started charting (date, if known): April 2, 2006
TTC: unknown

sdauer21 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/6adf9) (spedtchr on LJ)
Real name: Sonya (32)
DH's: Will (31)
Occupation: Teacher
Married: August 31, 2002
DD's: Tallia (1/14/03), Abigail (7/26/05)
Started charting: November 2005 (charted from Aug - Nov. '04, too)
TTC: Earliest would be August '06, if I can talk DH into a third!

southerner (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1078f2)
Name: 30 (in January)
DH: 31
Married:August 2003
Started Charting: January 2006
TTC: Fall/Winter 2006

SQ2 (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=sq2)
Real name: (27)
DH's age: 27
Married: 8/15/04
Started charting: 11/23/05
TTC: September 2006

Stevesbabygirl (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=stevesbabygirl)
Real name: Heather, 26
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Steve, 28
Occupation: Surgical technologist, receptionist for car dealership
Married: August 31, 2003
Started charting: February 2006
TTC: July 2006

stephie61706 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/11ed58)
Real name: Stephanie (24)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Jason (25)
Occupation: Athletic Trainer
Married (date of or date planned): Planned June 17 2006
Started charting (date, if known): Feb. 2006
TTC: 2008 or 2009

Sue
Sue: 34
DH: 36
Occupation: Inside Sales
Married:8/10/02
Started charting: 5/16/06
TTC: Oct/Nov 2006 maybe...

tashaw6 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/11d1cf)
Real name: Natasha (27)
DH's name: Neil (26)
Occupation: Accountant
Married: 25th September 2004
Started charting (date, if known): 20 February 2006
TTC: 2007

tbell
Tacy: 31
Tim: 35
Occupation: Child Support Enforcement for county gov't
Married : 5/21/05
Last BCP: 6/17/06
Started charting: 6/18/06
TTC: October 2006

tgr68 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1e632)
Name: Naamah (25)
FH's name: Cordell (26)
Occupation: SAHM
Married : June 1, 2002
Started Charting: January 2003 & July 2005
TTC: 2007

TheMarieke
Real name: Marieke (22)
FH's name: Nathan (21)
Occupation: Insurance Agent/Broker
To be Married: 8/26/06
Started charting: May 25, 2005 (First full cycle)
TTC: 2009-2010 (unless God decides otherwise!)

tippy (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/48927) (tippyanddennis on WC)
Real Name: Tiffany (25)
DH: Dennis (24)
Occupation: Engineer
Married: June 26, 2004
Started Charting: March 30, 2004
TTC: 2010ish

tlew12778 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/7381b)
Real name: Tiffany (28)
FH's name: Carlo (31)
Occupation: job-hunting (me), MD (him)
Married: April 21, 2006
Started charting (date, if known): October 2004
TTC: 2007?

Wagsgirl
Me: Tonya (29)
DH: Ryan (29)
Occupation: SAHM
Wedding date: 11/10/01
Children: Briley 10/28/02 Greydon 2/18/05
Charting: charted to conceive DS 12/03-6/04, none since
TTC: Octoberish 2006

wonderpup262
Carrie: 30
DH: 30
Occupation: full time product manager, part time MBA student
Married: Oct. 03
Started charting: Jan. 06
TTC: We should wait til 2008... but can we hold out that long?

yanekie25
Real name: Kalshelia (27)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Malcolm (26)
Occupation: Finance
Married (date of or date planned): October 21, 2006
Started charting (date, if known): Gonna to start this cycle.
TTC: Probably not until 2009

[kemaji]

When we're moving on to TTC by Year


2006
angelraven
boilermaker
clzj
EmilyBronte
EmilyZA
filmgirl7
Harmony96
raven077
RobynScott
sdauer21
stevesbabygirl
southerner
SQ2
Sue
tbell
Wagsgirl

2006 - 2007
eagleswings
meagle

2007
ADSigMel
Clattercote
kemaji
KRL626
motray36
Natrat80
Pookie Princess
tashaw6
tgr68
tlew12778

2007 - 2008
abear
ladybug1196
meggers

2008
AHammer
ryansgirl
wonderpup262

2008 - 2009
stephie61706

2009
yanekie25

2009 - 2010
TheMarieke

2010
dpangel33
tippy

2011
candy corn

Someday/Undecided
Angelpalgt
chinadoll
Cindym
FSUSammy
granada
HisSpicy
JubileeDawning
katiej
kissmary
ktina0803
Leigh0918
LeslieandPaul
Saathei
sarahburns

No more for me/Don't want children
dana92504
Leilynne
mamacita

Moved on to TTC/SWH
Mystikal (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/RaeK622) ~ May 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due June 27, 2006
flygirl (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/flygirl) ~ June 2005
polkadot (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/b9a0d) ~ July 2005
heather 8^) ~ July 2005 ~ Baby girl born July 2006!
cat_loverpq (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/da20b) ~ August 2005
Leigh0918 ~ August 2005
Sabriel (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/4431c) ~ August 2005 ~Pregnant! Due August 2006
Sevilla (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/1b18e) (rae_anna46 on LJ) ~ Baby boy born March 2006!
pickle ~ August 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due October 2006
ABirney (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=mrsabirney) ~ September 2005
ajlanden (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/2fdee) (ShyAnn on WC) ~ October 2005 - Pregnant! Due August 2006
Aletheia (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/a0c60) ~ November 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due September 2006
quartercentury (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/3313f) ~ December 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due October 2006
lawgirl4 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/a6770) ~ December 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due October 2006
M&M614 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/df46b) ~ December 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due October 2006
giry76 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/781ab) ~ December 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due December 2006
berry ~ December 2005
MrsKinnison (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/89c6c) ~ December 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due MArch 2007
BethIrish ~ December 2005 ~ Pregnant! Due November 2006
bijouparvin ~ January 2006 ~ Pregnant! Due November 2006
phillytiger (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?id=lege) ~ January 2006
Kanga1622 (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/28596) ~ February 2006
fsb2005 (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/10ac41) ~ April 2006 ~ Pregnant! Due February 2007
Reenie (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/1002c9) ~ April 2006
honeygirl (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424) (Ovusoft (http://www.tcoyf.com/forum/chart.asp?id=honeygirl)) ~ May 2006
MrsHill (http://www.tcoyf.com/chart.asp?id=mrshill) ~ May 2006 ~ Pregnant! Due February 2007
juliemag (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/9c636) ~ June 2006

Anti-grads
Graffy (http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/9fab4) ~ Pregnant! Due June 2006
Daniel's Kitty ~ Pregnant! Due February 2007 ~ Broken Rule: BD'd when fertile CM was present

[tlew12778]

Oh yay! New thread. Is it open for posting yet? I can delete this post if there are more info posts still being added.

[kemaji]

Charting-to-Avoid Volume 3 is now open!

I have updated the current roster, so if you don't see your stats included, that is because you haven't posted for a whole thread. If you would like for them to be added back, just let me know by posting in red.

As a further reminder, please post any updates in red!

[FSUSammy]

Clattercote - Posted this on the last thread and then noticed that the new one was started.

thanks for the suggestion. I'll definitely do that. I'm still not comfortable with UDD so I'm basically only judging the temp shift more for being able to draw my coverline than to UDD. Yesterday my CM was more sticky than it was creamy so I "think" my body is trying to dry up. We'll see. Thank again!!!

[Clattercote]

Yay, new thread! It's kind of fun to look through all the lists and see who's pg and to see how many people are part of this thread, and to remember "old" friends who were in this forum until (it feels like) just a couple months ago - Can't believe Sevilla's almost DUE, for instance!

Thanks for the nice new thread, threadmistress! And speaking of which, DH and I are moving TTC to early 2007.

[raven077]

chinadoll, FSUSammy, and Clattercote:

Thanks so much for all your input (and so quickly at that)! Since it's my first chart, I will wait to see all red, and I'll definitely just keep an eye on my temps to see what develops.

Oh, and I think I got another convert to FAM. I had told my friend about it, then showed her the book when she came over. Let's see if I can get her hooked on here too! :p

[honeygirl]

Thanks for starting the new thread Kamaji! My stats are right, but I'm not on the TTC year by year (for 2006).

I'm on CD28, pretty sure I ovulated on CD23. I'm planning on taking the 7 day test tomorrow.

http://www.tcoyf.com/forum/chart.asp?id=honeygirl

raven077 I wanted to echo what the other ladies said, but to add that if you're like me the "first red" won't work. I usually start spotting (sometimes red, sometimes brown) MANY days before my actual period starts. So I wait till the flow starts before calling it CD1.

[southerner]

reporting for duty.....

kemaji, as always, thanks for being such a great thread mistress :D


southerner
Name: 30
DH: 31
Married:August 2003
Started Charting: January 2006
TTC: Fall/Winter 2006

[raven077]

honeygirl

Thanks as well. Until I looked into this whole thing, I always thought that spotting was the start of my period. Have to rearrange my thinking all over the place.

[Janey]

Since the last thread, I had a birthday, and became 33 (ouch). You don't need to update it if you don't want to. I'll stay 32 a while longer. I don't feel 33...

I expect to get my period today or tomorrow. On to TTA Cycle 5! Only two more after that, and I will be changing that third initial. YIKES! Where does the time go??

[LeslieandPaul]

Checking in. I looked at my stats and realized I've been charting for 1 year! (I'm on cycle 13)

[motray36]

Hi Ladies,
Just checking in. I have been BIG TIME slacking off this cycle...between working conflicts, illness, traveling, and drinking too much :o, there has been little reason to even attempt to chart. I'll pick back up next cycle I think.

Also, lovely threadmistress, could you update my TTC to 2007, we decided to wait a year. Thanks!

[kemaji]

Thanks for the love.... you all make being threadmistress easy! :)

Updated to here.

[stevesbabygirl]

Yay, Ovusoft told me that I O'd on CD16, woo hoo :D!

Threadmistress, our TTC date is now July or August 2006. Thanks!

[candy corn]

Hi all!

Also just checking in - very excited to be part of the new thread! :D

just some minor updates:

DH just had a birthday yesterday, so he's now 26 too...

...and we decided to push up our TTC by two whole years (crazy, I know!) so now I only have to wait 5 years!! (TTC in 2011)

thanks!!!!

candy corn

[EmilyZA]

Updating my stats!


Real name: Emily (27)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Dan (28)
Occupation: Marketing Support Rep
Married (date of or date planned): Married 9/18/04
Started charting (date, if known): 2/16/06
TTC: Possibly Fall of 2006, we're waiting to buy a house
Children: Just a furbaby-- Vinny, our chocolate lab

My chart is here: http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/emilyza

[chinadoll]

raven077 I wanted to echo what the other ladies said, but to add that if you're like me the "first red" won't work. I usually start spotting (sometimes red, sometimes brown) MANY days before my actual period starts. So I wait till the flow starts before calling it CD1.
That's why I said I wouldn't count reddish-brown as CD1 -- I also have spotting for a day or two before the real flow starts.

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. I've got proof to pretty much never rely on FF or Ovusoft to tell you when you O. Both have very different O dates for my current cycle. I'm starting to think that I haven't O'd yet despite what the softwares are telling me.

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

[abear]

Hi Ladies,

It's been awhile since I've been on, so I hope everyone is doing well. Did I miss anything exciting? As far as my info, DH had a birthday, so he's now 26. Everything else is the same.

I'm hoping you guys can provide me with some interpretation. My cycles have gotten somewhat consistent, in that they're long and I tend to O around day 30, and get AF around day 44ish. With that in mind, this current cycle, I didn't chart real well at the beginning and then I was out of town for a few days (CD 18-21), so I didn't take my temp., thinking I wouldn't need to worry about it yet anyway.

Well, I got EWCF on CD 22 and 23 and then my temp spiked. FF won't tell me I O'ed (I think because I don't have enough info?), but I think (and really hope) I did O early. Does it look like I did O early?

I'm kinda freaked because I wasn't so careful on CD 16 or yesterday, and I'm really hoping I didn't screw myself.

Thanks!!!

[Clattercote]

About when to count periods - I agree - "red" definitely means bright red (fresh), and not semi-red (or brown) spotting. But if you've got bright red but light flow, that still counts as CD 1, I think. It's just a light day as opposed to a spotting day. And I usually count bright red flow as CD 1 anytime up till about 7 in the evening. After that, CD 1 is counted the next day.

ETA: Abear - Nice to see you around again! Since there's not much data to go on temp wise, I looked at the supposed temp shift and compared the temps with previous post-shift temps - and they're in the same range, which suggests to me that it is likely you DID O back when you had some EWCM. I won't say it's totally conclusive, but it is likely.

[dana92504]

woohoo! new thread! thanks kemaji :D

abear - i'd ditto clattercote. your temps seem in the right range, but there's not a temp shift from pre 'O', so i'd be leary and keep an eye on your chart

i've never had an annovulatory cycle but i think that's what i'm having now. can ya'll look at my chart(s)? do i need to combine 2/14 and the chart so far for 3/11 and not consider this a new cycle that i'm starting right now (it's really light - mostly spotting)? or do you think that i possibly o'd somewhere on my 2/14 chart? tia! :)

[granada]

Hi! Checking in. I haven't posted much, but I'm still around. Thanks, kemaji, for the new thread.

I'm now 30 and DH is 35! :eek:

[tlew12778]

abear - I agree with the others. But I wouldn't worry tooooo much about the UDD on CD16 as that was 6-7 days before possible O.

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

abear -- I agree with everyone else. I wouldn't worry too much about your UDD.

Dana -- I don't see an O in your last cycle.

[fsb2005]

So, I know others have had this happen before...but what is with 6 identical temperatures in a row???

I've been at 97.3 for 6 days in a row since I got AF. Weird.

I've tested the thermometer at other times, and I get other readings. I guess I'm just strangely consistent right now.

The other thing is that for some reason my temps this cycle stayed low during my period instead of starting higher and heading down.

I guess I should add more stats for myself - I see there is only my user name in there:

My age: 28
DH's age: 29
Occupation: Attorney
Married (date of or date planned): Married 6/14/03
Started charting (date, if known): 12/10/05
TTC: April 2006
Children: None so far - just two beagles!

[kissmary]

woo! New thread! :)

I realized that my info has changed...well my husband is now 29.

Thanks, kemaji!!

fsb, I get consistent temps sometimes, too, though never 6 in a row. Seems like your thermometer is working, so nothing to worry about. :)

[tlew12778]

I get lots of flat temps. As long as you check your therm, you can just chalk it up to steady hormones :).

[dana92504]

fsb - i've had that happen before too. if your thermometer is working like you said, i'd be happy that you're that consistent! :D

[Janey]

I'm having weird temps as well... though not flat. I got my period (and yes, it is full-on AF with heavy bleeding and cramps), but my temps still haven't dropped below last cycle's coverline. Pre-O, I usually hover down around 97.3, but yesterday and today I was 97.9, and 97.7. 97.7 was last month's coverline.

I'm not freaking out about it, but it does make me wrinkle my eyebrows a little.

[fsb2005]

Thanks everyone who replied re: my strange flat temps. :)

MrsHill - normally, my temps are high like that at the start of AF (and TCOYF definitely says that it is normal to have high temps at the start of your period). But, this month MINE are at 97.3 (and not budging). So maybe we just traded temp patterns. ;)

[FSUSammy]

hey ladies. Can you guys look at my charts and let me know whether you think I've O'd or not. I don't think so but then again I'm still a newbie and need help.

FYI, haven't posted today's temp yet but it was 97.

I have a feeling I'm having another anovulatory cycle.

Thanks!

[abear]

Thanks Ladies for your feedback. I kinda thought the same thing, but It's nicer to have reassurance. I think I was more concerned about CD 27 than 16, but I think I'm OK on that front too.

Thanks again!

[southerner]

Sammy, Let's see what your temp tomorrow is. How many annovulatory cycles have you had? How many have you charted. Did you see my thread (http://www.constantchatter.com/showthread.php?t=17031) re: annovulatory cycles? There's some good info in there. Not that you were looking for any though :o

[FSUSammy]

southerner - this is my 3rd cycle off of BCPs and the 1st was anovulatory. I've been charting since the first cycle. Not sure if I entered in cycle 1 in Ovusoft though. I'm going to read up on your thread right now. Thanks!

[Clattercote]

Sammy - Your intuition is right, I think - there isn't an O yet. I don't think we can call an annov cycle yet either - I'd say the continued low temps might actually suggest your body will eventually O, but who knows.

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. Not sure which temp to chart for today.

When I originally temped it came out to 96.6. I decided to temp again because maybe my therm was cold or whatever and it went up to 97. What do you all think?

[dana92504]

fsu - i'd use the 96.6

[kemaji]

Sam -- I'd use the first temp, especially since that isn't out of the realm of pre-O temps for you.

Updated to here.

[Clattercote]

Sam - Ditto what everyone else has said - use the first temp.

[FSUSammy]

Thanks ladies. Will do!

[fsb2005]

So, I remember a while back people were talking about whether they were concerned about anything for TTC based on their charting knowledge while TTA.

Since I've been off the pill (this is my fourth cycle off), I've had really short periods. I really only have one day of strong flow, and even that is not incredibly strong - I'd say medium flow. The next day is usually really light, and then I'll have maybe 2 days following of spotting (i.e. no tampon needed, just a light pantyliner that wouldn't ever overflow).

I've searched the boards, and while it appears that people have asked about this a couple of times, I didn't really find any answers about this.

Does anyone know if a short/light period means anything?

I'm worried that it means that I'm not building up enough of a lining. I'm trying not to worry about it too much, because I haven't even started TTC yet and otherwise my cycles look good, but I just thought I'd throw it out there and ask...

[Janey]

FSB2005, you may be right -- we just switched places. Today brought 97.5, so apparently I'm just having a "slow drop" this month. 97.5 is definitely in my range of pre-O temps.

Here's hoping today brought some change for you. :)

[saathei]

screen name/chart link (if applicable/wanting link): Saathei/pleiades829
http://www2.fertilityfriend.com/home/4a9b2
Real name: Elizabeth (23)
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Orion (25)
DDs: Thalia & Michaya, 11 months
Occupation: Student/SAHM
Married (date of or date planned): August 29, 2003
Started charting (date, if known): April '04 (but stopped after getting pg [ON PURPOSE] in September '04)
TTC: 2008 at the earliest, probably 2010


So, after nearly 11 months of blissful avoidance, here I am at CD2. :( It had to happen sometime, right? So, I'd like to hop back on board, assuming I can find my thermometer and remember my FF password. :p

My doctors are pushing me to have some other kind of birth control, but I had a good experience with FAM before. Besides, I'm not too keen on putting more hormones in my body when the ones I've already got are so whacked out.:rolleyes:

[LeslieandPaul]

fsb2005-my periods changed after I went off the pill (it didn't happen right away, but it did eventually). When I was on BCP, I would have 5 days of bleeding, followed by 2 days of spotting and now I have 2-3 days of spotting, 2-3 days of bleeding, and 1-2 days of spotting.
I don't know if it means anything, but I wanted to let you know you're not alone.

[kemaji]

saathei -- Welcome back! I remember you from when I was just starting charting/lurking in the old charting threads.

Updated to here.

[honeygirl]

fsb2005- I've also had short periods since going off BCP (last august), usually only 1-3 days of flow, plus spotting before and after. I figure that my post-o spotting minimizes the actual AF (I only have 2 days of AF), but even before all of that I had short periods. As long as you have a decent LP I wouldn't worry about it. Of course you could ask your doctor at the next visit.

Update: I took the blood test (for progesterone) on tuesday afternoon. I would have been 6-7DPO at that time. I'm waiting for the DR to call with the results, I'll call her tomorrow if I don't hear anything. I'm not sure what a decent result is, I read somewhere that it should be between 5-10. Does anyone know?

I'm UNHAPPY with my current pre AF symptoms. I'm breaking out like CRAZY about 5x worse than usual. I've also been nauseous and TIRED. I'm guessing that the stress of moving is making my symptoms worse. Darn hormones. Oh, and of course I'm still spotting, this time I started at 4DPO I think. :(

[FSUSammy]

I've Got EWCM!!!!

I noticed some late yesterday afternoon but thought it was a fluke. I still marked it on my chart though. I just checked and I found some more again and its soooo strechy!!! I can't believe I'm excited about it. Maybe I will O this cycle afterall.

Just wanted to share.

[Clattercote]

honeygirl - Determining what a "normal" level of prog is a really fluctuating thing, and depends, to large extent, which tables and charts your doc uses. Sometimes women test as normal, but if they were under the care of another doctor, they'd test as low progesterone. This happened to a friend of mine who went through several miscarriages before a doctor just decided, let's put you on progesterone and see if that helps - and it did. But she always tested normal according to that particular lab's guidelines.

One of the people who's done the most intensive studies on progesterone levels is also one who's developed a form of NFP (not the method that we all use, sympto-thermal, but the Creighton Method, which is a CM plus doctor method). Dr. Hilgers has done many studies on progesterone levels in both pg and non-pg women and on his view, many labs use standards for progesterone that are too low - he would say that lower than 14 is too low, where others would say that anywhere between 5 and 10 or above is normal.

I think my level was 7.4 when I did the test, and the doctor determined that was too low; - progesterone supplements did the trick, lengthened my LPs and helped with other pre-AF symptoms.

[FSUSammy]

Finally this board is back up and running! What happened???!? Just wanted to check in so you all know that the site is back up and running.

Sam

[dana92504]

honeygirl - my last two periods have both been extremely short (last month was just 2 days of spotting/light!) and i've never really been on bcp. i think sometimes our bodies are just cranky :p ....if mine don't straighten up by next month, i'm going to call the doc, but i'm not too worried.

oh, and i thought i was the only one who got nauseous before AF!!! it sucks :(

[honeygirl]

I heard back from my doctor's office today. My 6/7DPO progesterone level was 15.1. This means that I ovulated (which I already know thanks to charting). From what I've heard (thanks Clattercotte) that is a fine, maybe even high score. Which would make me think it wasn't a progesterone problem, but I'm not sure. The doctor went ahead and gave me a perscription for progesterone supposetories (sp?) to use on my next cycle (after O until AF, or BFP if we're TTC). I'll have to do some research on them, hopefully they aren't too uncomfortable.

I'm hoping that they do the trick, this spotting stuff SUCKS!

[southerner]

I *think* I remember reading this here. I got stretchy (so I'm going to call it EW) CM today (7 DPO). I've *think* that's normal. When I put it into FF, they made my red crosshairs dotted. What does that mean?

honey, good luck with those :o

Sammy, that happened to me (saw temp jump w/ EW, then temps crashed). CD 15 on myfirst cycle, if you want to see. Crossing my fingers for an ovulatory cycle for you. I spoke too soon. Now, I've had one annov. and one ov. cycle.

[Clattercote]

honeygirl - I'm surprised by your high count, myself. I'll be interested in seeing what happens when you use the prog suppositories.

It might indeed be something else going on - some lack of a mineral or vitamin, or some other imbalance.

[fsb2005]

Thanks LeslieandPaul and honeygirl for your comments re short periods.

I guess I'll just hope that they don't mean much. I don't remember having really short periods before the pill, so they eventually should go back to being longer.

New Question: We're going to be TTC next month (:eek: ), and we're thinking about trying the Shettles method for a girl. Where do you think is the best place to post for advice on that (for questions like, given my past charts, what should I be looking for to time BD 3 days before O)? In this thread? In the TTC w/charting thread? Just in a new thread on the Family Planning boards?

Thanks!

[southerner]

fsb, I'd say a new thread. Your questions might get lost in here and there will be others here on CC who can help, but don't check this thread. Also, you could try the FF message boards. Good luck!

[FSUSammy]

fsb2005 - Regarding your question, let me know what you come up with. We won't be trying until probably this fall but would love to have our first be a girl.

[stevesbabygirl]

My temp took a huge dive this morning. Is there a reason for this? I sleep in the same pajamas, under the same covers, and took my temp at the same time. It's been hovering around 98.8 for the past few days, but this morning, it was 98.1. What's up with that :confused:?

[Clattercote]

stevesbabygirl - This is known, in the Art of NFP book, as a post-shift dip, because it happens after an established temperature shift - and according to the book, it happens for no apparent reason. The authors suggest waiting a day (consider this one day to be a brief fertile phase and either abstain or use protection) and seeing if the temps rise back to normal levels in the next couple days. If the temps do rise back to post-shift levels (low 98s for you), then you can again consider yourself in the infertile phase.

Keep an eye out for this as you chart - it may be a pattern that is unique to your body (every cycle you always have a temp dip) -

[stevesbabygirl]

Thanks :D!

ETA: Nevermind, I was a dork this morning and entered my temp as 97.1, not 98.1 :rolleyes:. At least I'll know that for the future if I ever take a huge dive again.

[Clattercote]

Well, at least that's more explainable than the post-shift dips (which apparently have no rhyme or reason to them...) - 98.1 is good then! :)

[stevesbabygirl]

Hello ladies :D! After my brief stint with you all, I'm now moving to the TTC thread :D! DH is finally ready, so as soon as CD1 hits, we're gettin' busy! Thank you all for your wonderful support, and I wish you all the best of luck in the future :).

[honeygirl]

Hello ladies :D! After my brief stint with you all, I'm now moving to the TTC thread :D! DH is finally ready, so as soon as CD1 hits, we're gettin' busy! Thank you all for your wonderful support, and I wish you all the best of luck in the future :).

Wow Heather, that Dr Phil show did quite a number on Steve! I can't believe that he changed his mind so quickly. You'd better send a thank-you to Dr Phil. :) Best wishes on TTC, I'll see you over there in May (unless you get pregnant right away).

[stevesbabygirl]

Thanks honeygirl :D!

[Clattercote]

Good luck, stevesbabygirl! That's great news, and I hope you don't have to have too many 2WW before you're pg.

[EmilyZA]

Best wishes to you and your DH, stevesbabygirl! :D

[SQ2]

That is great news, Heather! :D I'm so happy for you!

* * *

Well, I was wondering why I wasn't getting any updates for this thread. I went away on spring break and a new thread was started. So here I am checking in! Went to the west coast for break so shifting over two time zones. I don't remember the rules for time zones so I just temped at 6:30am like I normally do (but for the time zone I was in - Pacific). It was interested to see how my temps were lower than usual. Our bodies are so smart! Missed a temp on the way home because of my redeye flight. I'm wondering if my trip is going to delay my O. We'll see!

[tippy]

Just subbing - I am always late to the party :( ;)

Congrats, Heather!!! Very exciting news!!

[Dizzy]

Congratulalations Heather!!

We are all so excited for you and hope your TTC journey is short and sweet =)

Enjoy the Baby Dancin'!

[Janey]

Congratulations, Heather!! :D You'll have to come back and let us know when you get that BFP.

[stevesbabygirl]

Thank you ladies :D!

[FSUSammy]

Good Luck Heather!! Definitely stop by and fill us in on your progress with TTC.

[kemaji]

Congratulations stevesbabygirl! Good luck with TTC!!!

Updated to here.

[AHammer]

OK, I need some people to yell at me for my awful awful charting this month! It's full of gaps!

By my best guess, I think I ovulated Friday or Saturday, but I don't know when because I forgot to take my temps. They've been elevated the past two mornings, though. It's weird because I had what I was sure was ovulation pain about a week ago, but my temps stayed low after that. who knows! I just know I need to do much much better next month!

Amy

[Clattercote]

Ahammer - I won't yell at you - I think you've already done that yourself ;) - and I'll just say, you can still use the TCOYF rules of 3 above 6 - just count the next high temp as evidence of O - and next time, if you chart better, UDD can be even more days!

[raven077]

Is it normal, coming off AF, to go straight into Sticky days, skipping over Dry? Or is this just a product of coming off the BCP? I went straight from AF to Spotting to Sticky in my first week of charting.

[stevesbabygirl]

Thanks :D!

[stevesbabygirl]

raven, I pretty much did that same. I believe it's quite normal to have a sticky BIP.

[AHammer]

Ahammer - I won't yell at you - I think you've already done that yourself ;) - and I'll just say, you can still use the TCOYF rules of 3 above 6 - just count the next high temp as evidence of O - and next time, if you chart better, UDD can be even more days!

Thanks for the reminder about that rule -- I didn't remember exactly how many days I needed to wait and get high readings. I definitely need to use that last sentence as motivation to do better next time!

[bijouparvin]

Hi, gals! Just wanted to pop in with an update. We switched to SWH in January and we got a BFP a week ago. After charting a year and change, we're going to be parents in November!

Happy charting, all!

[stevesbabygirl]

Congrats :D!

[honeygirl]

bijouparvin - Congrats again! :)

raven077 - Yup, it can be normal for some women. From what I've read some women always have some sort of CM. For them sticky is their dry (for rule purposes). However, you'll need a few cycles to pass before you can figure out what is "normal" for you.

AHammer - Time will tell if you O'd, it is about the right time for you though, right? I almost wish I could skip taking my temps sometimes, I'm obsessed!


Well I'm feeling kind of down right now about charting and my resistant-to-being-normal-girl parts. I just wish I could have a nice typical 30 day cycle with a average LP and no weird spotting. Is that too much to ask? I picked up my progesterone suppositories today, they are only 25mg. That's not a lot (the average dose is 100-200mg). I figure she's starting with a low dose to be on the safe side, but I kind of wonder if it will even work. :( And to add insult to injury, AF came 2 days early (sun) or so I thought. I'm confused b/c my temps are still high and so far today I'm just spotting again. AGGG!!! I'd like to skip temping for a while, but with the new perscription and us TTC in another month it's probably a bad idea.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[LeslieandPaul]

Is it normal, coming off AF, to go straight into Sticky days, skipping over Dry? Or is this just a product of coming off the BCP? I went straight from AF to Spotting to Sticky in my first week of charting.

Yup, it's possible. In TCOYF, it's referred to as your Basic Infertile Pattern (BIP). I have either sticky CM or fertile CM, no dry days. It's kind of annoying, but it's normal.

[raven077]

Thanks ladies.. And I actually was looking through TCOYF.. I thought I remembered seeing something about that, but couldn't find the chapter, and all of the sample charts shown seemed to have dry days immediately after.

[Clattercote]

bijouparvin - Thanks for the update! H&H 9 mo.

[stevesbabygirl]

Looks like I'll be around another month :rolleyes:. DH wants to wait for the next cycle after this upcoming one to TTC because of some financial stuff. Still close, but I had totally gotten my hopes up to start trying now.

[tlew12778]

bijouparvin CONGRATS! H&H 9 months to you and DH!

[kemaji]

bijou -- yay! congrats again!

[kemaji]

stevesbabygirl -- Do you want me to re-post your stats? If so, can you post them here for me? TIA!

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. Was looking at my chart this morning and I think I might have ovulated. Ovusoft and FF seem to concur too and put it on the same day that I'd put it at. What do you all think?? I do have the sore BB's to concur too.

[kemaji]

Sam -- I agree with your O date. If you use the rule of thumb on CD32, then your post-O temps are higher than the six previous days.

[Clattercote]

honeygirl - I totally understand about not wanting to temp anymore and about wanting bodies to do their normal thing - it just gets really frustrating, especially when you're observing your body day after day,and especially when you're trying to help it out, but see no results. Hugs and sympathy -

[akacharlotte]

I'm having a weird cycle and i think it may be because I got sick Friday. I had three days of the same temp, 97.0. I was beginning to think my thermometer needed a new battery but temp went up to 97.1 yesterday and 97.4 today. I'm on cycle day 21 with no sign of O.

Has anyone ever experienced this when they were ill? I only had a 24 hour bug.

[Clattercote]

akacharlotte- It's definitely possible for O to be delayed by even a 24 hour bug - and my cycle gets delayed for all sorts of other things too, especially stress. I don't see any CM notations - do you check CM too? How does that look? I ask because it looks to me like the 97.4 temp could conceivably be the start of a rise, especially if it goes up in the 97.6 and higher in the next couple days. (I'm basing that on where your low and high temps ranged last cycle - so it's admittedly not a for sure thing) - but if you're still seeing fertile CM, then yeah, I would agree that there's not a definite sign of O yet.

[AHammer]

Well, I've had an elevated temp for three days at least, and looking at my past charts I'm almost positive i've ovulated, I just don't know when precisely. This sends me way back to pre-charting and pre-pill when I'd have no idea when AF was coming... my LP was consistent enough that I can usually predict a 2-day window when she'll come, but I guess not this time!

[fsb2005]

I don't know if this is more appropriate for another thread, but...

I asked before about what it meant to have really short periods...apparently no one really knows, but I'm worried that is has to do with not having enough of a uterine lining.

I've read that baby aspirin can thicken the lining (by increasing blood flow).

Does anyone know anything about this? Does it have any other effects?

Since I'm going to try Shettles next month, I'd rather not take something that would interfere with other parts of my cycle (like CM pattern), because I'm using that to try to predict when I'm going to O.

But, if baby aspirin is supposed to help and shouldn't affect much else, I might try it if it is supposed to help w/uterine lining.

Thanks for any help!! Should I ask this question somewhere else?

[Janey]

FSB - There is a "TTC Rookie Questions" thread in the Family Planning section that has some SUPER smart ladies answering questions just like this one. Not that you shouldn't ask it here... but just that you may get additional informations from those Encyclopediladies. ;)

GOOD LUCK with the Shettles method! You'll have to come back and let us know how it worked out for you.

[tlew12778]

WTF? This server being busy crap sucks. I get it ALL.THE.TIME. And it eats your posts.

OK I was saying...

I know that moms with blood clotting problems take baby aspirin. I know that Phen took it along with heparin. I would not take a blood thinner, an minimal as it may sound, without first asking your dr. I am not one for self-diagnosis and I do not take meds unless I know that I am treating something definite. That said, you can do hormonal blood tests to see if your lining is sufficient. But if you are having any period at all, I bet you it is. Insufficient lining is usually indicated by amenorhea and it's part of the progesterone withdrawal challenge if your dr does it (which I doubt he will since you have periods). IIRC insufficient lining is caused by lack of estrogen. If you do not have enough estrogen, you will not O or get your period.

FWIW, my periods are like 1.5 days of red flow then the rest are spotting.

[fsb2005]

MrsHill - thanks for the suggestion. I might try posting it there...

tlew12778 - thank you so much for posting that. I am also not one to take meds w/out advice. The problem is that I just moved to NYC, and I have my first appt with my ob/gyn at the end of April, and we are starting TTC in April. So I don't really have someone to ask before then.

I guess I should just wait and if I don't get pregnant the first cycle, oh well. I will be able to ask before my second cycle. Sometimes it take me a little while to step back and see the big picture when I get obsessive about something. :)

I've been Oing regularly (at least according to my charts), so hopefully that means the lining is ok too.

My periods have really only been 1 day of red flow, and the second day I think requires a tampon (at least I've been using one), but it's not really heavy and I think mostly brown, not red.

My periods were longer pre-Pill (and on the Pill), so probably my body is still regulating (though this is now my fourth cycle off). But I'd like to get pregnant in the first 6 months of trying if possible (for job reasons), so I'm just trying to do everything possible to get pregnant as quickly as we can.

Anyway, thanks for the replies!

[LeslieandPaul]

Ok, I looked this up in TCOYF and apparently it's normal, but it's never happened to me. Oh, and sorry if this is TMI. I'm on cycle day 32 (o'd on day 21) and last night I went to the bathroom before I went to bed, and on my underwear was A LOT of creamy/watery CM. I checked internally and it was super watery. I don't have this much CM during my fertile period. Why would this happen now, if it's never happened before?

[fsb2005]

LeslieandPaul - I usually have watery CM a day or two before AF. The first time it happened I thought AF had started, but it turned out it was just watery CM. I think it's fairly common.

(edited bc I can't type)

[Clattercote]

Leslieandpaul - This sort of thing happens to me sometimes to - I never ever get ovulation spotting, and then there'll be the one month I do. Or I usually see EWCM, and then there'll be the one month I don't, but I clearly O'd. Stuff like that. I chalk it all up to the fact that my body is not a machine - it works in a regular way but it's responding to all sorts of stimuli and so it's really fine tuned to the environment and my emotions, etc. So I figure all kinds of things that throw our bodies slightly (but not abnormally) out of whack, like having EWCM for a day or two at the end of a cycle. :)

[stevesbabygirl]

kemaji,

That's okay, I'll just hang out :).

[akacharlotte]

Clattercote- I'm still learning my CM. :eek: I think I have EWCM now but I haven't physically checked. I just noticed when I went to the bathroom that I had avery wet feeling when I wiped but I didn't want to touch the toilet paper since I had just used the bathroom, kwim? Anyway, I'll check when I get home. My temp was 97.5 this morning so if I have a jump in the next few days and I still have EWCM I'll know that being ill really threw off my cycle.

Thanks for your input. :)

[stevesbabygirl]

Woo hoo, I'm spotting red today, which means tomorrow will be CD1 :D! Normally, I wouldn't be excited, but after 7 years on the Pill, I'm thrilled that my cycles appear completely normal!

[raven077]

stevesbabygirl, you're excited? I'm excited! I just had EWCM (and a lot at that...even though it's early, still fresh off the pill). I'm just psyched b/c I recognized it for what it was instead of sitting there, noticing it going, "Huh.. wonder what that is?" So yay for you and yay for me. :D

(Man, I'm a dork).

[angelraven]

Hello everyone! Been a LONG time since I've been here! I'm plugging right along though. Things were going great up 'til the last couple cycles. Now they're getting longer and longer again. STUPID PCOS. Then today I got news. I have a cyst. :(

Copied from my journal:

Well, I can longer be in denial. I have PCOS. For real. Today I found out that I have my first cyst. This sucks. I had convinced myself that deskpite all that I'd been told and all that I'd read, it couldn't be real if I didn't have the cysts. After all, the term cystic is in the name of the syndrome itself.

I went to the doctor for my yearly pap. As she was doing the exam, she noticed my left ovary was a little enlarged. Being that I've not had a period in 67 days thus far and my PCOS diagnosis, she sent me over to the hospital to have a sonogram of my girly parts. There is was, starting us all in the face. Tiny, but still, it was there.

So far, it's just one, and it's very small. I'm not having any pain, which is good. They said there's a chance it could grow larger, and if it gets too painful or too large, I'll have to get it removed. Or it could go away on it's own or just never do anything. I'm hoping for the second option.

I've heard it's normal for women to get cysts on their ovaries sometimes, so I COULD continue to try to act like nothing is wrong, but I don't think it's safe anymore. I've got to keep a watchful eye on everything.

This sucks.

[stevesbabygirl]

raven, yay for us :D! I'm excited because the sooner AF gets here, the sooner the next AF will get here, and the sooner I get to TTC :D!

angel, I'm really sorry to hear about your PCOS.

[ADSigMel]

After a super-long absence, I'm finally back. My last cycle was 99 days long and annovulatory, which made me sort of depressed, since that cycle started out looking like it would finally be a "normal" one. I'm hoping this one will be better.

[honeygirl]

Sorry about your last cycle ADSigMel, sending good vibes your way for the next cycle!!!

angelraven - Bummer about the cyst. At least now they can do something about it though.

stevesbabygirl - Is this your first complete cycle off BCP? I hope you continue to be "completely normal", especially with your TTC plans only 1 cycle away!!! :)

fsb2005 - I've been taking a baby aspirin each day from O to AF. I heard from a fellow "spotter" that it could help. I'm only 2 cycles into taking it, but so far it has helped a little (I think b/c my spotting starts 1-2 days later now, but then again, my spotting/AF is still wacky so who knows). I bought chewables at Target.

Clattercote - Thanks for being supportive of my whining. I know that things could be a lot worse cycle/fertility wise, so I shouldn't complain. I'll just keep doing what I can, doctors/tests and otherwise and not worry for now. Who knows, maybe we'll somehow get pregnant right away in May and everything will sort out post-baby. I've got to hope! In the meantime I should be thankful that TTA is working. ;)

[Clattercote]

adsigmel - I hope this cycle is shorter too!

angelraven - I'm sorry about the cyst, too - here's hoping that you're able to get the PCOS under some semblance of control - sounds like you have a good gyn.

honeygirl - Anytime - ;)

[stevesbabygirl]

honeygirl,

Yep, it's my first complete cycle off BCP, and I'm so thrilled it went so well! I've known people to go 3 months with no AF, and I was happy to realize that wouldn't be me :).

[southerner]

adsigmel, That's why I've never seen you here, I haven't even been charting for 99 days yet :o I'm pulling for you (trust me!)

angelraven, What kind of follow up do you have scheduled to check your cyst? When is the appointment?

[tlew12778]

God... I hope I O soon. I started taking the vitamins again so it's back to watery CM which is indicative of nothing while I take them apparently. If I don't O soon, that means I will be pre-O on our wedding day... the upside to that means that I will be post-O most of our HM and not have to deal with AF while in Africa. I don't like the temps I am seeing though... I had some high temps that are normally post-O for me and that never happens... I am wondering if the PCOS is rearing its ugly head.

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies, I'm on CD 42 (or possibly 1) not sure yet because this morning when I temped it was 96.9 which would be below my coverline and I have felt some minor cramps. I temped again immediately after and it was 97.4. I wrote down 2 temps and went to work prepared just in case AF arrives today. If she does the LP for this cycle would have been only 6 days. I guess its a wait and see.

[angelraven]

southerner: As of now, it's just a wait and see type of thing. If I feel any pain, I have to go back and make sure it's not growing. Have you experienced this? Does it seem that I'm not being proactive enough? I'm new to this and basically feeling like I'm in a fog right now. :(

[ADSigMel]

stevesbabygirl, congrats on the good first cycle! I hope it stays that way for you! Were you pretty regular before BCP, too?

tlew, I hope everything works out okay with your temps. Here's hoping you see an O very, very soon, and don't have to worry about any of this stuff during you wedding OR your honeymoon! A delayed O this cycle could, I'm sure, be attributed to wedding stress.

FSUSammy, you might have just had an off first temp this morning (cold spot under the tongue or something), especially since it shot back up immediately afterward. I wouldn't worry about it unless you have another low temp tomorrow.

angelraven, I don't know anything about cysts or have any advice, but I'm sending good thoughts for you. Times sure have changed since the late 90's. My gyn said she thought I probably had PCOS because of my super-long cycles and frequent annov cycles, so she put me on BCP, just to make me have a period so I would feel better, but said not to worry about the ramifications of the disorder until I was ready to have children, since it wouldn't be a problem for me until then anyway. Of course, I wasn't having sex then, so it wasn't a CTA issue or anything, but still, I don't think doctors now would just let a thing like that ride. Best wishes!

honeygirl, Clattercote, southerner, thanks so much for the good wishes. I think I can probably use them, since I appear already to be having yet another jacked up cycle.



Yesterday, AF was super-heavy (as one might expect after a 99 day cycle). Today, it disappeared completely. I was spotting this morning, and now it appears to be gone (although I haven't checked my cervical os yet, so I'm not positive). Has anyone else experienced anything like this?

[stevesbabygirl]

I've been on the Pill for 7 years, so I barely remember what it was like before :p! I wasn't 28-days regular, but more like 30-32 days.

[honeygirl]

ADSigMel - Yes, just this cycle I had the mystery of the disappearing AF. I had it one day (heavy), then only spotting the next 2 days, then 1 more day of AF. Weird. I'm starting to think that abnormal is the new normal. :)

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. Yesterday's first temp was a fluke. Turned out the second higher temp was right. No AF showed up. This morning's temp is still above the coverline so I don't expect her today either.

[tashaw6]

I am hoping I have a good first cycle off BCP...so far so good! I must start FF I think so that I have something to show you girls so I can get confirmation on stuff! :D

[southerner]

southerner: As of now, it's just a wait and see type of thing. If I feel any pain, I have to go back and make sure it's not growing. Have you experienced this? Does it seem that I'm not being proactive enough? I'm new to this and basically feeling like I'm in a fog right now. :(
I don't know you're whole backstory, so pardon all the questions. Not all cysts are painful, so waiting to feel pain is not a good idea, IMO. Is that what the doctor told you? Mine was not painful. They found mine by accident when I was having an annual Pap done, they discovered I had an enlarged right ovary. Right away they scheduled me for an ultrasound and measured it. When I went back for a second ultrasound, they discovered that it had grown (quickly, I might add). Now, I know this might be a rare occurrence and your cyst is hopefully real small and won't be an issue. I don't know much about non-cancerous cysts, to be honest. Just food for thought. Hope I haven't freaked you out more than you already are :o

eta: maybe you can make an appointment to go back? What did your doc recommend you do? I am also new to this all, so take my story and suggestion for what it's worth.

[ADSigMel]

Southerner, can PCOS cysts be cancerous?! I had no idea...my old gyn told me they weren't a problem except to the extent that they keep you from getting pg. Should I ask my new gyn to do an ultrasound, just in case, or is it the kind of thing that would show up during the standard annual exam if there were complications?

My spotting is about done, it would seem. No sign of AF's return. Am I definitely on a new cycle now, or might I have had one day of extreme breakthrough bleeding? Breakthrough bleeding in an annovulatory cycle is never heavy and bright red, is it?

[tlew12778]

There is no obvious causal link between polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS) and ovarian cancer. Although it’s not known for sure whether benign ovarian cysts or polycystic ovaries develop into ovarian cancer, the vast majority of ovarian cysts appear to be unrelated.

Women who have polycystic ovaries or ovarian cancer seldom have obvious symptoms early on. However, in both disorders, symptoms are noticed as the condition progresses. Because the ovaries are affected on both disorders, the some of the symptoms can be similar. from http://www.ovarian-cysts-pcos.com

[southerner]

ADS, According to this info, (http://www.ovarian-cysts-pcos.com/ovarian-cancer.html) there is "no obvious causal link between PCOS and ovarian cancer". However, if there were complications, they might not show up in a standard pelvic exam. The size of my enlarged ovary is what concerned them and prompted them to do an ultrasound. I'm hoping if your doc has any reason to be concerned (ie family history, extended use of fertility drugs, age, etc.) about your PCOS, then they'd do what is necessary. If it will ease your mind though, I guess it doesn't hurt to ask, right?

Above info is from http://www.ovarian-cysts-pcos.com. There's alot of other good info there.

ETA: tlew12778 "PCOS" AND "cancer" on yahoo? ;)

[tlew12778]

ETA: tlew12778 "PCOS" AND "cancer" on yahoo? ;) Google actually ;)

But I also have PCOS so I have done tons of research on it and have most of the sites bookmarked.

[Janey]

Glad to know there's no PCOS/Cancer link. :)

I am having the flattest month ever. Every single day has been 97.5 except for 2 days, and those two days I temped at a time other than my regular 7:00 AM. We ended up staying the night at MIL's house in Wenatchee last night and I forgot my thermometer, so I have no temp for today. I saw the EWCM though and we had to tell each other: "No Christmas Babies!!" If I got pregnant this month, the due date would be right about December 23.

[ADSigMel]

tlew and southerner, thanks so much for the info. I had never heard of any connection between PCOS and cancer before, but a PP made me a little nervous. I'm sure if there were a serious problem, I'd have found out about it during an annual by now.

MrsHill, that's pretty cool that you have had flat temperatures. Mine are so all over the place that I usually have to shave temperatures just to see a post-O rise. Yay for "no Christmas babies!!" LOL at that. :)

[honeygirl]

MrsHill - I hear you on the "no Christmas babies". If we got pregnant this cycle we'd be due the 31st. We looked at each other and said we'd be EXTRA careful this month. I don't want a holiday baby, I'd much rather wait till the next cycle!

[Janey]

ADSigMel & Honeygirl, I'm so glad you all are with me on the No Christmas Babies thing. :p There are birthdays about every 3 weeks between the end of October and the beginning of February -- my dad is Dec 27, even. That is how B and I came up with June to start trying... we'd have a March baby, which is perfect. Gotta spread the celebrations out a little.

(B is hoping for March, but not April... he does not want to buy an April birthstone ring for my right hand!! June would be nice, I like pearls... ;))

[tashaw6]

Hi girls,

A quick question, I don't know what to record as CD1...last night out of the ordinary I got up at around 11 to use the loo and I saw light spotting and then obviously when I got up this morning AF was in full force...so, do I back track on my chart and say yesterday was CD1 or do I just leave it as today?

Thanks! :)

P.S. Ditto on the Christmas baby! ;)

[honeygirl]

tashaw - I'd just say today was CD1. It's a preference I believe, some women say anything past bedtime is the next day. Personally since I spot pre-AF I wait till the flow is starting to do CD1.

MrsHill - I'd love a March, April or May baby. But hey, what's wrong with a diamond on your right hand?

[tashaw6]

Thanks Anne, I was thinking of going with CD1 for today...I was thinking of doing that cause I feel more comfortable with it that way...just wanted to get confirmation ;)

Thanks!

[tlew12778]

Miracle of all miracle -- FF gave me a free trial of the VIP benefits right at O (well at least should be O time anyway). I wonder why they changed their pollicies.

[FSUSammy]

tlew12778 - FF gave me a free trial this past cycle too. It was only for a few days. I think they are trying to hook us free members into paying. LOL

[dana92504]

can anyone help me figure out what's up with my cycles???

last month appears to be annovulatory with a very odd (very short/light) AF that started it off. then this month also started off with a very odd AF (mostly light/spotting but a couple heavy days in there and lasted 10 days). and after only 5 days of not having a period i started yesterday! but for some reason FF didn't start a new chart. was my 'last' cycle 15 days with 10 of them being my period? or am i still on the same cycle? and if so, what's up with this heavy flow in the middle? and needless to say my temps are all wacky....:confused: :( :mad: :( :confused:

[tlew12778]

Oh well I have gotten lots of free trials of FF. But they are notorious for giving them when it doesn't count (like way into your LP or at CD1... always for 4-5 days too).

[ADSigMel]

tashaw, I'm with honeygirl, I would count today (or I guess it was yesterday for you by now) as CD1. I usually spot before AF, too.

Dana, I don't think I've ever seen a chart quite like that before. The only thing I can think of is that maybe you're still on your last cycle and what you thought was AF was actually breakthrough bleeding. I've never seen breakthrough bleeding last that long or actually be heavy, though. Whenever I've had it, it was just spotting. Sorry I can't be more help!

[Janey]

MrsHill - I'd love a March, April or May baby. But hey, what's wrong with a diamond on your right hand?
Nothing, as far as I'm concerned! B, on the other hand, feels like he just did that. He'd like a less expensive gem this time. ;)

[honeygirl]

Nothing, as far as I'm concerned! B, on the other hand, feels like he just did that. He'd like a less expensive gem this time. ;)

Oh I get it. :) I'm a April baby myself, so I'm all for diamonds!!!! I also like aquamarine, what month is that? Anyway, I'm not sure my DH will buy into the "jewelry for giving birth" plan. I'll have to start laying hints around.

dana92504 - I'm not sure what to say about your cycle either. It does seem a bit unusual. Perhaps FF is looking at the AF you have now as mid-cycle bleeding so they're ignoring it. Maybe wait and see how much longer this current bleeding lasts. Has this ever happened before? You may want to make an appt with your Ob-gyn to review what is going on with your cycle. Good luck!!!

[Janey]

Oh I get it. :) I'm a April baby myself, so I'm all for diamonds!!!! I also like aquamarine, what month is that? Anyway, I'm not sure my DH will buy into the "jewelry for giving birth" plan. I'll have to start laying hints around.
March = Aquamarine. Aquamarines are my favorites, so that's why I'm hopin' and prayin' for a March baby. :) Here's a list of birthstones (http://www.jewelrycentral.com/BirthstonesChartInfo.html), in case you were curious. I have seen rings I love for $500 and less, so I'm not wanting a hugely expensive piece of jewelry.

[stevesbabygirl]

I love aquamarine as well! I'd love a baby anytime later than Christmas, but March would be pretty cool.

[dana92504]

i'm so glad to see that people actually plan for the birthstones of their kids. my parents obviously didn't think about that so now i'm stuck with the ugliest one - peridot (august). i hated getting birthstone jewelry as a kid - it's so ugly. *sigh* how i wish i was a diamond or an aquamarine ;)

well thanks for making me feel like a freak, girls ;) (kidding!).....i think i will give my ob a call - i've never seen anything like this. usually my cycles are pretty regular in length, only irregular in my ovulation (not worried) and my LP (still not worried). but something like what's going on now is too freaky even for me to ignore. i thought at first it may just be break through bleeding b/c of the timing, but it is waaaay too heavy to be that - it's full on "super duper, biggest tampon ever" kind ;)

[ADSigMel]

Hey, Dana, I'm a peridot girl, too (August 17th)! We can lament our ugly birthstone together!

[Janey]

I don't mind the peridot! I think it has more to do with the style of the piece than the color of the gem itself. I've seen some ugly, ugly birthstone rings in any stone, and some great ones in each of them, too.

Soooo just so's I can post something that does not qualify as hijacking the thread ;) ... I had a temp that was something other than 97.5 this morning: 97.3, my body's other favorite pre-o temperature.

[angelraven]

Hey don't knock the peridot! :) August 3rd baby here! I actually kind of like it. I think MrsHill is right- it depends more on the style of the piece. But I wouldn't mind having the diamond or the aquamarine either! ;)

I'm thinking spring or fall baby. I would really rather not be hugely preggo in the heat of summer or worrying about bad weather in our midwestern winters.

[southerner]

I'll add to the birthstone conversations and say that I hope I'm one of the lucky ones and have the opportunity to plan when to get pg. With irregular cycles, it's impossible to do that.

[tlew12778]

Ha! I told FH that I just want diamonds whenever any baby is born :p. I've been drooling over a pavé eternity band (can you imagine? we aren't even married yet!) and we got the band he would have gotten for me for a baby as my wedding band instead so he's stuck now! Right hand ring here I come!

Still no O... so sad... I had the worst backache y-day too. And I even had EWCM this cycle which I don't normally get... I toyed with the idea of SWH on our wedding night but then I realised we cannot as we need to start anti-malarials the next day for our HM. Boo!

[tlew12778]

Oh yeah and old-timers, Sevilla is welcoming her little one into the world (if s/he hasn't joined us all already!). I'm sure she'll come and post when she is able to.

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. Looks like I missed some fun with the birthstones. LOL Today I think AF will arrive. Yesterday's temp was right on my coverline and today it has gone under. Plus I feel like utter crap!!! So we'll see. I hope this new cycle will be more normal since we aren't traveling.

[tashaw6]

Well I am a pearl baby...still waiting for my string of jewels...lol!

Thanks MrsHill for the list of stones! I wanted to have a look...I may send it to DH! haha!

[tashaw6]

Oh, I wanted to ask...my last cycle (which was also my first...lol) I just temped...I did check CM etc but I was lazy and didn't write much down (like I will this cycle :D)...so my question:

FF has predicted my O date and my cover line etc just using my temps Is this accurate? Can I say truly that I O'd

[FSUSammy]

tashaw6 - I'm sure others will agree with me, but try not to rely so much on what FF tells you regarding O. Sometimes its dead on and others its not. When in doubt ask us to look over your chart to verify whether or not its correct. If you post a link to your chart then we can help you verify whether or not you truly O'd when FF said you did.

[kemaji]

tashaw6 -- You never want to rely on any charting software to call your O. They're software programs and can't take into account human nature. Also, FF is geared more towards TTC and that can affect how it calculates cycles. You can really only call O after you have had 3 high temps over the previous 6. If you post a link we would be more than happy to help interpret.

My cycle is coming along just fine. If everything goes according to past cycles, I should be Oing at the end of this week.

I'm another August baby and I actually love peridots, especially when they are faceted. I really like light green and when you have good quality stones, they're beautiful. As far as planning for our eventual baby, DH is a teacher and coaches wrestling which is over at the beginning of March. I would love to have a late March/April baby so my maternity leave would run right into his summer break and we wouldn't have to deal with daycare until our future baby is 5 - 6 months old.

[SQ2]

Hi, ladies. Just checkin' in. :) After inputing my temp this morning I got the second vertical line on my chart. I think this cycle has been thrown a bit since I was traveling for a week and then I got a cold. Maybe the Sudafed I took last week affected my CM. The most fertile I've seen is sticky and in the past I've gotten EW. My temp jumped up this morning but not above the coverline.

[Clattercote]

sq2 - Ovusoft is clearly relying too much on that temp dip you saw yesterday - I don't think there's yet definite evidence of O, which is supported by the fact that you say your cycle is a bit thrown off, so you may see a late O. But I wouldn't say it's happened yet -

Birthdays - Well, I'm a December birthday - 2 weeks before Christmas. And it's not all that great to have a b'day then, because it's always overshadowed by Christmas. However, originally, I was supposed to be born in March (yes, I was 3 months premature - born at the beginning of 27 weeks) - which just goes to show, it's always possible that a baby won't be born in the month we want ;)

ETA: I can't wait to hear about Sevilla's little one!

[Janey]

Clattercote, that's quite a story!! And very true that babies aren't always born when we want them to be. My cousin had a C-section 10 days before my wedding day, and she and her hubby still drove to Seattle from Montana to be my MOH. What a trooper. I'll never forget that!! (they got some really cool pro pics of the hubby and 10 day old baby (in a tux!) together)

Tasha - glad you liked the birthstone list. :) It's fun to see what the different months are. The only ones I don't really like are emeralds and rubies, but again I think that's only because I haven't found a piece I like in those gems.

Tiffany - How far out are you guys from TTC? I assume not too far, since you were willing to SWH on the wedding night... ;) It would be fun to TTC with some of you all after TTA'ing together.

Southerner - I can empathize with you about the irregular cycles, certainly. It must be very frustrating. :(


I got myself a sort-of job on Thursdays. My 2nd cousin has four children, and is very sick. She has had terrible terrible migraines (like the kind where on bad days, you couldn't even touch her because it would cause her to have huge pains) for years, and they can't figure out how to fix her... and now she is addicted to the pain medications. It's just a huge mess. :( She had two teenagers coming in to be 'mother's helpers' but now the teens can't do it any more, so she and her mother, who is taking care of her and her own mother who is 90, are just in a panic that she is not going to have help. So each of us (her aunt, my mother, and myself) are giving them one day/week. My day is Thursday.

The older two are in school, but the younger two are back-to-back-pregnancy babies, and are about 10 months and 19 months old. My mom went over there yesterday and said they were the easiest kids in the world to take care of. She then said, "This will be good experience for you!" I don't mind doing it -- I know they would do the same for me.

I hope they have a double stroller so we can go outside for walks.

[tashaw6]

Here is my link:

My Chart (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/11d1cf)

What do you guys think?

[FSUSammy]

It does look like you did O on CD15.

[fsb2005]

tashaw6 - I'm interested to see what others think of your chart. You do seem to have had a thermal shift, so you probably did O. Also, your temp dropped from your post-O temps on the same day you got your period.

The things that look a little odd to me - your pre-O temps are really low, from what I've seen. And some of your post-O temps (at least post-O according to FF) aren't that high - like 97.1. Finally, you had a 17 day LP, according to the O-date FF picked. I'm sure that's possible, it's just long.

Anyway, I'm wondering whether you didn't actually O somewhere in the early CD 20s. You had sort of a slow temp climb then, and some women have that. That would make your post-O temps more in the normal range, and it would put your LP into a more normal range too.

Hard to tell without the CM info too - next cycle you should try checking that too. It's not hard and you get the hang of it quickly.

Anyway, it's entirely possible that you did O where FF says you did. Although your LP and temps aren't smack dab in the middle of normal, they're not incredibly far outside of the normal range.

[Janey]

Tasha - I would say that you probably O'ed ... perhaps on CD12 with a Slow Rise after that. Without CM to confirm, however, it's really hard to say. I agree with FSB - try it next month. It's not difficult, and it'll really help with the interpretation.


An Aside - In the charts I peek at, FF seems to always pick the strangest O-dates. For those of you who use it, is it easy to override that and put in your own O date?

[ADSigMel]

tlew, how would the anti-malarials affect your SWH the night before? :eek: I can't believe Sevilla is having her baby already...it seems like just last month that she got pg!

tasha, it certainly looks like there was an O in there somewhere, but I can't really tell exactly where because of the gradual rise. I like it right where FF has it, but it could also be at CD18 or CD20. Once you start recording the CM signs this cycle, it should get a lot easier for you to tell exactly where your O is.

MrsHill, I'm so sorry to hear about your cousin. I can sympathize, since I've suffered from debilitating migraines for most of my life, too. It's really good of you to help her out with the kids.

[tashaw6]

Thanks FSUSammy and fsb2005! This was my first full cycle off the pill..do you think maybe that is why my LP is so long?

Yeah, I did check CM on some days but forgot to write it down :rolleyes: I will DEFINITELY check and wirte it down this cycle...was so excited to see the info that came out of just temping so now I am keen to see results of CM and temps!

[tashaw6]

Tasha - I would say that you probably O'ed ... perhaps on CD12 with a Slow Rise after that. Without CM to confirm, however, it's really hard to say. I agree with FSB - try it next month. It's not difficult, and it'll really help with the interpretation.

Wouldn't that make my LP mega long (i.e. abnormally long?) I know we are all different butis there something like an abnormally long LP...forgive my ignorance Istill haven't had time to finish reading TCOYF... :rolleyes: lol!

[tashaw6]

tasha, it certainly looks like there was an O in there somewhere, but I can't really tell exactly where because of the gradual rise. I like it right where FF has it, but it could also be at CD18 or CD20. Once you start recording the CM signs this cycle, it should get a lot easier for you to tell exactly where your O is.


Thanks! :)

[fsb2005]

tashaw6

First, I have a feeling Mrs. Hill meant to say CD 21 - otherwise her slow rise comment doesn't seem to fit.

Second, your first cycle off the Pill often can affect your LP length. From what I've seen, it normally makes it shorter, not longer. However, the overriding effect of the Pill seems to be to make cycles wacky. So it's entirely possible that it could have affected you by making your LP longer.

You'll have to see what your temps are like next month too (I know, a pain to wait). Again, with the really low post-O temps and the long LP, I'm inclined to think it actually happened closer to CD 20. But, we can't really know for sure!

[FSUSammy]

tasha - I have low temps like you so I wouldn't dwell on that fact. Since this is your first cycle off it is possible that your LP was long because of coming off the pill. Everyone reacts differently coming off of them. My first cycle off was anovulatory.

[kemaji]

Second, your first cycle off the Pill often can affect your LP length. From what I've seen, it normally makes it shorter, not longer. However, the overriding effect of the Pill seems to be to make cycles wacky. So it's entirely possible that it could have affected you by making your LP longer.

On my first cycle off the pill, my LP was longer than it eventually settled to. Until your cycles settle down, pretty much anything goes. :)

Also, with regards to your O date, all of the dates previously mentioned *could* work, it is really hard to say without any other corroborating information. My inclination would be to put your O at CD18 or in the early 20s, just so that your pre/post O temps would be closer to a normal range for each. We won't be able to tell for sure though until you have a couple of additional cycles charted.

Do you mind if I add your chart to your stats in the info posts?

[ADSigMel]

My temps have been abnormally low too, for the past several months. I haven't had a temp above 97.7 since October, and I've been averaging more like 97.2. Of course, my last for sure ovulation was in October, too, so that may have something to do with it. Anyway, it's been cold recently, so maybe that's why your temps are low, although I've read that low temps can also come from having low thyroid function.

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies, need help interpreting my charts. I was convinced that I O'd on CD 35 but after entering in more of my temps now FF is saying I didn't O and Ovusoft is saying I did but on CD 36. Granted 1 day isn't much of a difference but I had my coverline originally drawn at 97.1 and today I dipped below it and am having major cramps but no AF. Anyone have a clue??

this has been a CRAZY cycle.

Sam

[tashaw6]

tashaw6

First, I have a feeling Mrs. Hill meant to say CD 21 - otherwise her slow rise comment doesn't seem to fit.

Second, your first cycle off the Pill often can affect your LP length. From what I've seen, it normally makes it shorter, not longer. However, the overriding effect of the Pill seems to be to make cycles wacky. So it's entirely possible that it could have affected you by making your LP longer.

You'll have to see what your temps are like next month too (I know, a pain to wait). Again, with the really low post-O temps and the long LP, I'm inclined to think it actually happened closer to CD 20. But, we can't really know for sure!

Thanks! I suppose I have to wait for a few more cycles to tell how my body works...and yes, a total pain to wait! haha! But I must admit this month went quicker than I expected so we will see with this cycle! I guess I am happy that my first cycle off the pill was at least not anovulatory...so at least even though I don't know when I exactly O'd at least I did :)

[tashaw6]

tasha - I have low temps like you so I wouldn't dwell on that fact. Since this is your first cycle off it is possible that your LP was long because of coming off the pill. Everyone reacts differently coming off of them. My first cycle off was anovulatory.

Thanks FSUSammy! Least I am not the only one! :) I am happy and blessed that at least I know that I O'd! Thanks again for the info! I have soooo much to learn! :D

[Janey]

Yes, sorry! I meant CD18/March 12.

[kemaji]

Sam -- At this point, I'm still inclined to keep your O on CD35 for now. How long does it usually take for you to get AF once your temps dip below your coverline? The issue I have with putting your O date on CD36 is that then your coverline would be drawn at 97.3, which mean you would have been below it for two days now with no AF. Hopefully you'll get AF tonight....

[tlew12778]

MrsHill - Er well at least a year basically. We want babies when I am 30 and I am 28 now. I also want to take a trip to Thailand which I am going to shoot for in August 2007, so maybe we can try around our first anniversay or in Thailand. Not really sure. But it wouldn't be the end of the world if it happened now (but not the best idea either since I am unemployed).

I don't remember who asked about anti-malariala... was it ADSMel? Anyway I was told very vehemently that I cannot get pregnant within I think 4 months of taking them as they can cause grave birth defects.

[tashaw6]

On my first cycle off the pill, my LP was longer than it eventually settled to. Until your cycles settle down, pretty much anything goes. :)

Also, with regards to your O date, all of the dates previously mentioned *could* work, it is really hard to say without any other corroborating information. My inclination would be to put your O at CD18 or in the early 20s, just so that your pre/post O temps would be closer to a normal range for each. We won't be able to tell for sure though until you have a couple of additional cycles charted.

Do you mind if I add your chart to your stats in the info posts?

Can't wait to see mine settle! :) But I suppose that takes time! And a few charts later to really interpret properly...all worth the wait I know. Just from this one chart I already feel so much more in the know of how long my cycles are etc! It is cool! :D

Yip, I do not mind, please add my chart to my stats! Thx! :)

[FSUSammy]

kemaji - Last Cycle the first day my temp dipped below my coverline I got AF and she arrived early in the morning. Granted I only have 1 other cycle to base this off of since my first cycle was anovulatory. Thanks!!!

[ADSigMel]

Sam, I like your O on CD36 with an LTL at 97.2 and an HTL at 97.6. Granted, you didn't have a huge temp spike this month, but it does look like there was a rise coinciding with your fertile CM. Based on your LP last cycle, I would be surprised if you didn't see AF tonight or tomorrow.

tlew, yes, that was me asking about the anti-malarials, and holy moly, that's a good reason to be extra careful for a few months. I never would have guessed that anti-malaria medicine could cause birth defects!

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. Another day into my LP and still no sign of freaking AF. I swear I'm soooo unhappy with my body this cycle!!! I have cramps like crazy yet she's decided to not show up. Maybe I'm worrying too much about it and that stress is delaying it? Is that even possible? I really hope she comes today because honestly I'm tired of having cramps. My temp this morning was back at 97.1 so I'm not really going to hold my breath on her to come today either. I'll keep you all updated on my progress.

[tlew12778]

What LP would you be talking about Sam? Are you using the rule of thumb on CD32?

Stress cannot delay AF. The only thing that will delay AF is pregnancy or a cyst.

ETA: I went back and read the other comments so I know you are considering CD35 now. I sort of agree... it's just not perfectly clear. You do have the CM though to sustain that... but you also have some high temps before that. I dunno... I am not entirely convinced you have O'ed for sure mainly bc your temps are back down again with no AF.

[dana92504]

sam - based on your temps it does look like you possibly o'd on 35/36, but the temp spike/high temps from 29-32 and then no AF yet would make me leary that you might not have....

i'm going into the doc next week to see if there's anything wrong to explain these past couple of odd cycles - they didn't seem concerned with anything until i said i started back with my period after not having it for 5 days once my 10 day period stopped (which followed my annovulatory cycle). blah. hope it's just something wacky and nothing's wrong :(

[kemaji]

Sam -- I don't know what to say...since you haven't gotten AF yet, I am more inclined to agree with the others and think that you haven't O'd yet. I hope it gets resolved one way or the other...

[FSUSammy]

tlew12778 - My temps this cycle have been wacky partly due to the trip that we took right before my body was gearing up to O so it threw it off completely. I just figured that with the horrible pms cramps I'm having that AF MUST be on its way. Let alone I ALWAYS get extra clumsy right before she arrives and last night I noticed that I was super clumsy.

dana92504 - Yeah I agree with you. I'm starting to feel kinda leary that I even O'd. I just want AF to come already so that I can start a new clean cycle. I now know that for the most part my body DOES react to the stress of travel so in the future if I want to travel I should do it after I O! LOL

[FSUSammy]

kemaji - Yeah I'm speechless too! Thanks for your input.

[SQ2]

sq2 - Ovusoft is clearly relying too much on that temp dip you saw yesterday - ...and now my temp took another dip this morning after a jump yesterday. :rolleyes: *sigh*. I'm not very patient. ;)

[angelraven]

Yee haw, AF might actually come soon. I'm SO incredibly irritable today and I've been kinda crampy. Let's hope it means AF is coming. Today's only CD75. :rolleyes: Never did O though. :(

[Janey]

angelraven, keeping my fingers crossed for you!

Well, I'm an Ovusoft user and have discovered the biggest drawback: I can't update my chart today, because it's on my computer and my monitor is on the fritz. The darn thing won't turn on! It did this last weekend, too, and I was sure (or at least I was hoping :o ) that I would have to get a new monitor (and maybe a new computer to go with it? that'd be great!). But no, my hero B plugged and unplugged some cords while I was in the shower dreaming of 21" goodness, and fixed it. Well, I got up this morning and same deal - the darn thing won't turn on. I have plugged and unplugged cords but apparently I do not have the magic touch.

In any case, this is a reminder of what I need to input when B comes home and works his magic: 97.7 @ 7:08, EWCM, cold, I took my Prenatal, and I went to Aerobics.

Darnit.

[AHammer]

Like so many others it seems, I'm just sittin around waiting for AF to arrive. I think it's very clear that I O'd on CD29 or 30, but FF never detected it so I had to do an override and I randomly picked CD30. Either way, that puts me at 11+ DPO which is high since mine have always been 9 or 10 day LP. I had cramps two mornings ago and figured it was AF time, but nothing ever happened. so, here's hoping she comes soon.

[stephie61706]

I think we all must be having weird cycles, my temps have been all over the place and my CM hasn't been helpful either. FF was getting ready to have me O but then my temps dropped and have stayed down. I think I was spoiled last cycle (my first off the pill) and now my body is laughing at me!

[FSUSammy]

AHammer - I totally know what you are talking about! Join the AF Wait-n-See boat!!! Hope she comes soon for the both of us. I'm on 12+ DPO and have had awful cramps for 3 days in a row.

stephie61706 - Maybe there is a bug going around this board that is causing us all to have messed up cycles!!! Just hang in there.

P.S. Still no sign of AF for me today! Man I'll surely be doing an AF dance when she does finally arrive!!!


Sam

[raven077]

Wow.. lots of us first timers (first month off BCP). :D Pretty cool!

I would imagine I O'd due to the raise in temps, but I'm having a hard time with my CF. I mean, I know it can be crazy right after BCP, I just have no idea really when to calculate my peak day. Or if I should be starting the counts over and over again. Right now I have it at CD12 (since I still felt Lube), but I'm still getting Creamy CF and wet/damp sensations off and on. I guess I'll just let this chart be a free-for-all just to see what happens.

I also picked up Art of NFP to give some extra insight. From what I've read so far, I'm really glad I picked up TCOYF first. The former reads like a car repair manual!

[FSUSammy]

raven077 - Make sure on your chart to note EVERYTHING. When classifying CM always consider it to be the most fertile of what you've seen that day. My first cycle off was really crazy and I didn't notice any real CM but I made note of what I thought I had.

[Clattercote]

Sam - I'm going to go with what a lot of people have already said - it's not that conclusive to me that you've O'd - the temp shift, if it is there, is very weak, and I don't like the fact that it dips below the conceivable CL several times. Even if AF shows up in the next couple days, I'd probably be more inclined to suspect that it is breakthrough bleeding than an actual period. My 2 c

Raven - Yes - TCOYF is definitely the one to pick up first, imho, if for nothing else than the pictures. On the other hand, I think that Art of NFP is MUCH better for determining temp shifts, because it suggests that there are three basic types of temperature patterns - and even though it takes some doing to get through that section an understand it, it does take a lot of guesswork out of interpreting temp shifts once you've got it down.

[AHammer]

*does a little dance*

AF came!

Here's sending AF-hurrying-vibes to everyone else who's been waiting!

Amy

PS -- looks like I guessed right on assuming I O'd on CD30. I originally had it on CD29, but when I got an 11 day LP I changed it cause I knew that was too long for me, so I was expecting AF today and she finally came. So that makes it a 10-day LP, very normal for me.

[tlew12778]

OMG OMG. I think I o'ed. My eyes popped wide open at 8.30 (the good graces of being unemployed) when I saw my therm. I layed there counting out days of the month figuring I will be CD10 and still in my BIP on the wedding day! Woohoo! Granted, that means using condoms all throughout the HM basically which sucks. I actually thought about making an emergency visit to my gyno to get measured for a diaphragm, but I guess that's too late now. Maybe I should try the Last Dry Day rule although I tend to start having fertile CM around CD10-11 anyway.

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. Still no AF for me, still cramping though. I decided to do some research on my coverline-hovering temps. Today's was at 97 so back below CL. The only thing I found was a site that said that if your post-O temps hover around cover or dip below you may be looking at a low-progesterone situation.

Ladies, is there even the slightest chance that I might be PG??? I don't think so because my temps aren't high enough to substain it but just wanted someone else to confirm with me that its not possible because of my low temps.

Ugh!! This is so frustrating!

Sam

[ADSigMel]

Sam, it doesn't look like a pg chart to me. Since your temps are back down so low now, it doesn't even look like you've O'd yet. Back to wait and see, I guess...sorry!

Amy, congrats on your AF, LOL

[tlew12778]

I think they would stay consistantly high if you were PG.

[kemaji]

Sam, I agree with the other, your temps seem too low for a pg chart.

tlew, congrats on Oing. When is your wedding date? Soon, right? I read somewhere that you were going to Africa on your honeymoon...I'm so jealous!

[tlew12778]

Yeah, April 21... 3 weeks from tomorrow.

And yup, we're off to S. Africa and Mozambique for the HM. Our original plan was Thailand but we cancelled it do to the bird flu. At the time the flu hadn't yet arrived in Italy, but now that it has, I sort of feel like a fool for cancelling since it was half the price of Africa but oh well... can't cry over spilled milk. I'm sure the safari will make up for it :p.

[FSUSammy]

Thanks ladies for easing my mind on my PG question.

[kemaji]

tlew -- Wow, you're going to have such an awesome time. Have fun!

OK, I have a CM question for you all. I don't normally get mid-cycle spotting and this morning I had very dark brown EWCM. I'm trying to decide if I should mark it as spotting, even though it isn't red blood and when I check, there isn't anything on my underwear. My other option would be to not call it spotting and make and extra note in my chart. What would you do?

[EmilyBronte]

OK, I have a CM question for you all. I don't normally get mid-cycle spotting and this morning I had very dark brown EWCM. I'm trying to decide if I should mark it as spotting, even though it isn't red blood and when I check, there isn't anything on my underwear. My other option would be to not call it spotting and make and extra note in my chart. What would you do?

I think I would just make a note on your chart. I've never had mid-cycle spotting that isn't red, and since it's abnormal for you, too, I think a note in your chart would be sufficient. If it keeps happening around the same time, I would probably start adding it to your chart as spotting, though.

BTW - I'm on my 14th TTA chart - so I'm officially over a year!

[SQ2]

I always thought any reddish color CM (brown to bright red, anything other than white/clear) counted as spotting. :confused:

I was just thinking about something. I'm not actually charting to avoid, I'm just charting. We've been using condoms all the time since I went off the pill in November and DH doesn't feel comfortable stopping until we're ready to TTC in September. While I'd *like* to chart to avoid, I'm still a bit nervous about getting pregnant before Sept. I don't finish my grad program until May so it wouldn't be good if I had to deliver a baby before then. :p (Ok, it's really my DH who's the most against it. I trust charting more than he does, but I'm still not sure of all the rules enough that I'd feel confident to go without another form of protection.)

How long did all of you chart before UDD?

In any case, if we do continue to use protection all the time, when we TTC this fall I guess I won't really be a true graduate of this thread.

[honeygirl]

SQ2 - It took us a few months to feel comfortable to UDD. Who knows, maybe in the future you both will feel comfortable enough to go without condoms. But if not that's okay, this is a great thread for information on charting. Sometimes I think it should be called: "Charting-to-figure-out-what-the-heck-is-happening-with-our-cycles". Because that's what most of us post around here. :)

EmilyBronte - Congrats on a year. Now you're a chart master right?

tlew12778 - You must be so excited and a little overwhelmed with your wedding planning. Only 3 more weeks! A honeymoon in Africa sounds like an adventure, we only went to the Bahamas (hated it, rained the whole time).

FSUSammy - Sorry about your long cycle. It looks like it's probably another anovulatory one. :( I agree with the other ladies that your low temps mean no pregnancy.

AHammer - Congrats on AF, LOL. Isn't it funny what gets us excited in this thread?

Update: Not much going on with me. I'm on CD12, having my usual pre-o low temps. I've been sick the last few days and with the moving stress (we move next week) I'm not sure if O will be on time.

[Janey]

How long did all of you chart before UDD?
Six days (http://www.ovusoft.com/forum/chart.asp?cycle=1&id=mrshill&tc=0&p=). :o

It's sort of funny to look back on it now. There were two days right in a row... and then once I started getting fertile CM I kept putting it off and putting it off because I did not want to use the darn condom. It was very weird, emotionally (I blogged (http://stfunfw.blogspot.com/2005/12/baby-bug.html) about it at the time). But I saw the EWCM for the first time, and I had two thoughts right together. The first one was, "I have EWCM; I'm fertile. We have to use a condom." Then the next thought came right after the last. It was, "I have EWCM; I'm fertile. We could make a baby." Dangit I did not want to use that condom!! I almost cried.

We were pretty risky UDDing on CD18, but B was having stomach surgery the next day and we knew it would be a looooong time before we would be ready again, so the condom went by the wayside.


In any case, if we do continue to use protection all the time, when we TTC this fall I guess I won't really be a true graduate of this thread.
Maybe not for BC purposes, but you will certainly be a graduate for knowledge purposes!

EmilyBronte - congrats on your Master Charter status!

Kemaji - I think I would mark it as spotting, since that is the most 'severe' and make a note of what happened.

Tiffany - I am sooooo jealous of your african safari!! My folks went ot Madagascar a couple of years back and my mom rode a camel. She said it was the most fun she had all trip. So, if you get a chance to ride a camel, do it. :D

Honeygirl - good luck in your move!! I hope we see you back here Very Very soon!


My monitor really is on the fritz. B could not work his magic touch last night. I will have to Paper Chart :eek: for a while. It feels so stone-age. Perhaps that's when I know I'm way too chained to my computer.

[tlew12778]

How long did all of you chart before UDD?
3 months. But I we used the strict 6 day rule in the beginning. After about 9 charts or so, I realised that my earliest O was CD17 and so now we use the Doerhring rule and UDD until CD10. I am thinking about switching to the Last Dry Day rule though... just bc it seems like my Oes are getting later. I will see how I O after the wedding bc I am sure the stress is effecting me.

[tlew12778]

MrsHill - I don't think there will be camels where we are going :). Mainly bc camels are native to dessert areas. We saw a bunch when we were on the Canary Islands a few years ago. I've ridden them at the zoo though - does that count? :P

I always think of you when we go to dance lessons bc you put your video in the wedding section. We're also dancing to Frank Sinatra although to a different song. And we're doing a foxtrot as well :).

[ADSigMel]

tlew, wow, your wedding is so CLOSE! That's awesome! I'm sure your honeymoon in Africa will be absolutely magical.

kemaji, I usually spot brown when I check for CM the night before AF arrives. I would count it as spotting for now, and just see what happens.

EmilyBronte, congrats on the one-year mark! 14 charts, huh? Sounds like you're an expert! I've been charting for just over a year, too, but I've only had 6 charts...stupid uber-long cycles :mad:

SQ2, we started UDD before we started charting, actually. *Pull and pray* was our condom for almost a year. But that's just because it's really hard to get pregnant when you don't ovulate, and I assumed I wasn't ovulating because I hadn't had my period for 8 months. :rolleyes: Anyway, I'll still count you as a graduate when you move on to TTC, because you'll have learned enough to get a degree in charting!

honeygirl, ick, I hate moving. Good luck with that!

MrsHill, that's funny that you feel weird about paper charting. I HATE putting my info into FF, I sometimes go days or even weeks without doing it! The only reason I have mine online is for help from you girls.

[FSUSammy]

SQ2 - We just did UDD for the first time this past Sunday. LOL I'm on cycle #3 and based on my temps it appeared that I had O'd so I figured I was safe.

[Janey]

Tiffany - Aww you are making me blush. :) That's so great that you are taking dance lessons! You'll be really glad you did it. Every time I think about our wedding, our dance is what I think about - no joke. It's actually Harry Connick, that we're dancing to... which Sinatra song are you using? Are you having someone video it? If so, I hope you'll add to the thread. :D That'd be so much fun to have a collection of dances to watch!

ADSigMel, It just goes to show what a GEEK I am. I can leap tall spreadsheets in a single bound. I built my own computer back in 1995 because I was poor and wanted a screamin' gaming rig, and could build one cheaper than I could buy one. That computer is the same box I have right now, 11 years later, but every single part has been upgraded at least once since I got it (well, except the sound card). My avatar is a gamer geek thing too... it is Juliet in "Tales for the Leet," which I find excruciatingly funny but nobody else would unless they were a geek like me. :p

Annnyway. I have a question about paper charting. I printed out the .pdf chart from tcoyf.com. The temperature range in this paper chart goes from 97-99. What do you do when you get a 96-range temp?

Maybe I should just use FF until I get myself back in business.

[kemaji]

SQ2 -- My DH was not comfortable with the concept of charting for a while, so we didn't really UDD until at least 6 - 7 months into charting. The only exceptions would have been at the tail end of AF or literally the day before it was supposed to start. Now DH can't wait until condom free days.

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

[SQ2]

Thanks, gals. I've been lax about really learning the TTA rules. I've just been focusing on temping and recording CM since I started charting 4 months ago. I think once school is over this semester is over I'll study up some more and maybe convince DH that we should try UDD this summer. :D

[EmilyBronte]

honeygirl and MrsHill~
Thank you!

ADSigMel
Thank you! I hardly feel like an expert. I'm fairly "regular" but every once in a while something comes up to make me feel like a newbie!

Looks like I was the lone dissenter on whether to count brown ewcm as spotting. So much for knowing anything. HaHa! :)

[Clattercote]

MrsHill - I just switch the numbers to 96s and 97s, since all of my temps are in the 96s and low 97s pre-O, and none of them are above 97.8 post-O. Someday, when I have time (hah) I will make my own excel spreadsheet, but until then I just rewrite the numbers on one side. ;)

Charting before UDD - We abstain during my fertile phase, so it was pretty much UDD from the beginning. DH considers himself a natural man and won't use condoms - I hate diaphragms, so there you go!

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. Still no AF today. I talked to my mom and she wants me to take a PG test but I told her that I would if still nothing happened in 4 more days. I'm pretty sure it will come back negative though. I wanted to get your opinions on this though:

If you were in my situation where you are having this extra long cycle when would you call your gyn??? I was thinking that if in 4 days if I test for PG and its negative then I'll call the doc, but not sure what they would do if anything. I heard that they can give me a progesterone pill to force AF, but should I force AF to come???

Thanks ladies you guys are the best!

Sam

[Clattercote]

FSUSammy - If it were me, I wouldn't waste money on a pg test - in addtion to the fact that I don't see good evidence for an O on your chart, your temps are too low for this to be pg, imho.

There's a couple options here, and I think each option has pros and cons - one is just to wait it out, especially since this is only your 3rd cycle of BCP and it often takes 6-8 cycles to really get the body regulated. I mean - a typical thing for people coming off BCP is to have a couple of fairly short cycles with O's relatively early, and then to have a long cycle or two (and I think this is probably residual of the hormones from BCP). Lots of people routinely have long cycles, and especially if they know there's a cause (like coming off BCP), waiting might make sense.

The other option is the one you bring up, about seeing a gyn and "forcing" a bleed (which would not be a true AF, by the way, since it's not preceeded by an O). But this *could* help regulate/jump start your body to recognize that it needs to O, and begin cycling again. Plus maybe there are other health issues going on that need to be resolved. So it could make good sense to visit a gyn.

No matter which way you go, I think you'd be making a reasoned decision.

[raven077]

Sammy, yeah, I'm definitely writing down everything on my chart regarding CF daily. Days have been going by so quickly lately that it's hard to remember what happened which day without the written reminder!

Clattercote, I think I just need to sit down in the quiet of my house on Sunday morning, in my PJs, with some coffee and that book to try and digest the info. :)

All, don't forget that Sunday starts Daylight Savings time.. Don't know how many people that tends to affect, but I was just rereading that part in the books and they suggest setting alarms differently for Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

[southerner]

sammy, nothing to add, just wanted you to know I'm following along :)

emilybronte, I've never seen you in here. Cool post to catch my eye ;)

mrshill, Hope B is feeling okay, I didn't know :o

[EmilyBronte]

emilybronte, I've never seen you in here. Cool post to catch my eye ;)

Howdy! Yes, I have been charting since February of 2004, although I TTC'd for about 1 day before getting pg (we moved on to TTC on our wedding day and got pg either then or the honeymoon) and since James was born I've been charting since March of last year. However, I have a really hard time keeping up on group threads so I only post every once in a while. I have dial-up, too, which only adds to my troubles. :) I'm at my parents' house right now, though, so I'm catching up due to high-speed!

[Janey]

mrshill, Hope B is feeling okay, I didn't know :o
He's doin' great, thanks Southerner! The surgery was December 6. We're back to business as usual now. ;)

Clattercote is talking my language re: Excel Spreadsheets. (where's the 'evil grin' smiley??) Maybe that's something I could cook up tomorrow. Doesn't seem like it'd be that hard.

FSUSammy, I think Clattercote gave you way better advice than I could... Though I will say if it was me, I'd probably make the Dr's appointment and see what they have to say. I'm not known to be a patient person, however, so take that with a grain of salt. :)

[tlew12778]

Tiffany - Aww you are making me blush. :) That's so great that you are taking dance lessons! You'll be really glad you did it. Every time I think about our wedding, our dance is what I think about - no joke. It's actually Harry Connick, that we're dancing to... which Sinatra song are you using? Are you having someone video it? If so, I hope you'll add to the thread. :D That'd be so much fun to have a collection of dances to watch! We're using "I've got you under my skin". It's sort of our song, although we don't really have one per se. Basically, many years ago, FH bought be a stereo for Christmas. He hooked it all up, dimmed the lights, and left that song playing on repeat while he left the apartment to go hide out in the city. So I got home from school and walked into this eerily spooky apartment (you know, sort of like how in a movie you see this seen and know there was a dead body somewhere). So that's how it became our song :rolleyes:. Yes, we're having someone video it but I am not sure it will all make it into the final cut. But he is giving us the raw footage so I plan on asking a friend to convert to .avi or .swf and putting it online. Then I can add it to the thread! Next week we actually have 3 lessons :eek:. We're really trying to get as much practice in as possible before the wedding and our apartment just isn't big enough to accomodate the whole program.

[tlew12778]

I found some excel sheets on the net ready to download:
http://www.fertilitynetwork.com/ovulation/ovulation-calendars.htm
http://www.babycentre.co.uk/general/7069.html
http://www.babycenter.com/general/preconception/gettingpregnant/7069.html

[tlew12778]

If you were in my situation where you are having this extra long cycle when would you call your gyn??? I was thinking that if in 4 days if I test for PG and its negative then I'll call the doc, but not sure what they would do if anything. I heard that they can give me a progesterone pill to force AF, but should I force AF to come??? I was in that situation once but my temps were flatter than yours have been. On CD25 I think, I broke out in insane acne and went to the regular dr bc I thought it was some infectious disease (not joking... I thought mumps or rubella). She asked if I had ever been tested for ovarian cysts and I said no, that I had just been to the gyno a couple months back for my annual and everything was fine. So she said to call my gyno and talk to her about it. So I did, and the gyno was very skeptical but ordered some bloodwork anyway. I went for that and they discovered that my testosterone levels were quite high, so my GP/gyno sent me for a transvaginal U/S when they dx'ed PCOS. I think the whole process took a month bc around CD50 something I started progesterone to bring on an AF to start an anti-androgen BCP. I tried those for 2 months and decided I couldn't tolerate them anymore so I just went off and back to charting.

Anyway that was a longer answer than you wanted. I think in the US, a lot of drs prefer you wait up to 3 calendar months with no sign of AF before they do anything. It has something to do with insurance I think. The tests aren't really cheap.

[fsb2005]

FSUSammy - First, I have a feeling there is nothing wrong, as your body could totally just be regulating from coming off BCP. But, if I were to be perfectly honest, if I were in your situation I would want to see a doctor. That's mostly because I am over-anxious and neurotic, and I easily imagine the worst of everything. Also, I'm impatient and would want to see if the dr would induce the period so that I could start over and try to have a more "normal" cycle...So, I guess I'd say that if you are staying rational about this and not over worried, then maybe you don't need to go. But if it's upsetting you, then you should go just for the peace of mind.

---------------------
Question:

FF is calling my O on CD 19. What you can't see on my chart is that I still had other signs of O on CD 20 - increased sex drive and the sort of crampy/achy feeling I get right around O.

I'm pretty sure my CM was only creamy though. And even if I change it to watery, FF keeps the O date at CD 19.

So - is it possible that I would still have strong secondary signs of O a day after FF says I O'd, or is it more likely that I actually O'd CD 20? By CD 21 my CM dried right up and all of the secondary signs were gone. And this morning I got the big temp jump that puts my temp in my normal post-O range....

Thanks for the help!

[fsb2005]

Also, we've been planning to start TTC next cycle. Now that I've O'd should I move to the TTC w/Charting thread??? That is scary - a big move! ;) Technically I kind of am "waiting to O," even though I'm in the luteal phase...

Maybe I'll hang out in both for a little while...also I've been having second thoughts about starting next cycle. I realized my due date would probably be Jan. 18 or so if I got pregnant that cycle - if it came two weeks early, we'd have a holiday baby...we may try to do a really conservative Shettles attempt for a girl or something.

[tlew12778]

fsb - it could be a double O. That's why we wait 3 days before UDD :). Or... after looking at your chart, you could have o'ed one day later. Temp-wise, and considering you said it might have been watery, I would play it safe and call it on CD20 (due to the temp on CD14). If you use the rule of thumb on CD14, then CD19.

[tlew12778]

I think I o'ed on CD25 but FF is saying CD24. I think bc of the 6 previous low temps? But I had very visible EWCM on CD25... think I should change it? Not like it really makes a huge difference as I will just consider C25 for UDD purposes, but I am anal like that.

[ADSigMel]

MrsHill, LOL, I only very recently learned what "Leet" means, and I still can't read it. Guess that just goes to show that I'm not l33t, huh? :)
BTW, I use the booklets you get from the CCL, and they do the same thing. I used to only have temps in the 97.0-98.5 range, so I would just mark the occassional 96-point-something below the line and write in what the temp was. But now most of my temps have been below 97 for the past several months, so I'm considering switching my numbers to the 96.0-98.0 range instead, and just writing it in that way on my charts.

Sam, I think it depends on what your cycles were like pre-BCP. I know that right when I went off of it, I had about 3 or 4 fairly normal cycles, far more normal than they ever were before I went on BC. Then, I had NO period for 8 months, then about 3 more normal cycles (which is when I started charting). And now I've been having super-long and/or annovulatory cycles ever since, just like before I went on the Pill. All of that is to say that whether you have anything to worry about might depend on whether you were regular before you went on the Pill. I personally would wait before going to the gyn, just because your cycle hasn't really been that long yet (at least not in my admittedly biased opinion) and because it looked like you tried to O around CD35, but your body just couldn't quite pull it off for whatever reason, so maybe it will try again later this cycle.

raven, thanks for the time change reminder. Luckily I haven't been anywhere near O during any time change since I started charting, so it hasn't made much of a difference to me. But I'm sure that sooner or later, it will make a big difference, and I dread it, because the rules for adjusting to a time change look REALLY complicated!

fsb, I can't really tell yet just from looking at your chart, but I'm inclined to agree with FF, just from looking at your peak day and shaving/using-the-rule-of-thumb at CD14. I'd still give it another day or two before attempting any UDD, just to be on the safe side, unless it's not a life-or-death matter to you, which I assume it's not since you were planning on moving to TTC next cycle anyway.

Tiffany, I like CD25 better, too. It's just so much prettier than CD24! :D But I hate overriding charts on FF, because it makes the colors different from one chart to the next (and I'm anal like that). :p

[FSUSammy]

Thanks everyone. You guys are so informative and its great to know that if I have a question about all this I can easily come here. Still no sign of AF. Cramps have subsided a bit and today's temp is back up at coverline. Every morning when I get up I'm like please be a significant drop, please please please and then when the therm goes off, NOPE!

ADSigMel - My cycles before the pill were very normal. I almost want to say that they came every 28 days because I remember marking on my calendar when AF should arrive and she would arrive on time. So I'm not sure what's up now. What was the longest cycle that you've ever had I know that you've had some LONG ones, and was just curious.

Sam

[angelraven]

No AF for me yet either. Cramps went away, too, and I've had a lot of watery CM. SO CONFUSED! Maybe it's time to buy a new thermometer. Temps are all over the place. I should plug everything in to FF and see what it says. My online chart is WAY old. lol

Today is CD77. HMPH!

[Janey]

Tiffany, I love the song story. Can't wait to see the two of you cutting a rug together. :D I hope you fare better than I did in the last minute fox-trot-lesson crunch. B got irritated with me for having a bad attitude (they started doing more advanced stuff right at the end of a 2-hour lesson 2 weeks before our wedding, my brain was fried, and I just started flopping around instead of dancing), and when he gave me the I'm-irritated-with-you look, I burst into tears. :rolleyes:

ADSigMel, not understanding leet is part of its charm! (For the record, leet-speek drives me bonkers for precisely that reason)

FSB, I don't think you're "officially" TTC until CD1 of your first TTC cycle, so stick around a while longer!


I think I'm O-ing today, CD18. I've had EWCM for the last week (I wonder if this is PCOS rearing its head) and low, flat temperatures. And today, I am crampy. I suspect I will see a temp jump tomorrow or Sunday... right smack dab in the middle of Daylight Savings Time.

[Clattercote]

Tiffany - I like CD 25 better too - the temp shift on 26 just coincides so nicely with CM dry up.

fsb - The thing about charting is that we don't know the exact day of O, even when doing CM or temping - we only have a general sense of when it probably was (the only sure O detector is u/s). So I think that both CD 19 and 20 are probable; like others said it's also possible you had a double O. I'd probably go with CD 20 just to be extra sure.

Random cervix/gyn question - I went to the gyn today for a pap and she noticed that my cervix was irritated - and in fact was bleeding by the end of the exam so that they gave me a pad to wear home. (Bleh, I hate the way disposable pads feel.) Anyway, this has happened to me before, but not every time and I'm wondering if this is a normal, but little known thing about gyn exams, or if I just have an irritable cervix generally :eek: ? Or any other thoughts on this?

[EmilyBronte]

Random cervix/gyn question - I went to the gyn today for a pap and she noticed that my cervix was irritated - and in fact was bleeding by the end of the exam so that they gave me a pad to wear home. (Bleh, I hate the way disposable pads feel.) Anyway, this has happened to me before, but not every time and I'm wondering if this is a normal, but little known thing about gyn exams, or if I just have an irritable cervix generally :eek: ? Or any other thoughts on this?

I don't have any medical facts, but personal experience. I have a "sensitive" cervix, as I've been told by my Drs. I get irritated very easily both during some gyn appts and during sex. I was told by my Dr. that it isn't anything to worry about - it's just sensitive.

[ADSigMel]

Sam, my longest cycle since I started charting was my most recent one, which was 99 days. However, in 2004, I went off the Pill in late March or early April (I don't remember exactly), and I had long-ish, but normal cycles until July. I believe I had my period on July 17th or 18th. Then I didn't have another one until March 12th of the next year! If I recall correctly, that was the longest cycle I have ever had. But before I went on the Pill (actually, the reason I went on the Pill), it was not uncommon for me to go 4 months between periods. This is, of course, highly abnormal, but from everything I've been told, it won't be any particular problem until I start TTC next year. I don't experience cramps or pains or heavy periods or anything, so I just don't worry about it.

angelraven, yeah, update FF and let's see what you've got going on. Maybe your long-awaited O is around the corner!

MrsHill, that sucks that you expect to O right around the time change. At least it happens on the weekend, so you can sleep in until your regular time without being late for work or anything.

[stephie61706]

Daylight Savings Question:Should I just keep taking my temp an hour later until I start a new cycle, I work afternoons so I have that option. I think I'm O'ing so I really don't want to mess with my temps right now.

[ADSigMel]

Stephie, I think it would be a great idea for you to temp an hour later until you start a new cycle, since you can. It would just make life easier for you, I think.