Charting-to-Avoid Volume 3 -- No babies right now!

[stevesbabygirl]

According to my Ovusoft, you take your temp 20 minutes earlier on the day before DST goes into effect. Then on DST day, you take it 20 minutes later (though if there was no DST, you'd actually be taking it another 20 minutes earlier, make sense?), and then the day after, you take it at your normal time. So every day, you're taking it 20 minutes earlier.

[SQ2]

I guess I'm being lazy. I just let Ovusoft adjust my temp. (So for example I get up at 6:30 every morning during the week but on the weekend I sleep in until 7:30 or 8. So, i just let it adjust the temp for me. I did the same thing this weekend and I figured it would adjust it to whatever time it wants, so this morning would be 6:10. Not sure if this is right, but I'm not going to worry about it since we're not UDD anyways. I haven't O'd yet so hopefully my temps won't be affected too much.

[sarahburns]

Question: I'm thinking of TTA. How longer after charting did you feel comfortable DTD without a condom? I would imagine one of the suggested books tells me that but I haven't bought one yet.

Also, has anyone ever used a spermicide/foam as a form of BC?

[EmilyBronte]

Question: I'm thinking of TTA. How longer after charting did you feel comfortable DTD without a condom? I would imagine one of the suggested books tells me that but I haven't bought one yet.

Also, has anyone ever used a spermicide/foam as a form of BC?

When I was TTA before I got pg, we were TTA for 4 months and never DTD without a condom. This time around, we only waited about 3 months or so. We are super-conservative, though, and use a condom more than not (not because I don't trust FAM, but more because my DH is leary of it). I think it really depends on how long it takes you to feel like you've mastered the rules.

[Janey]

sarahburns, we just talked about this. :) If you scroll back a couple of pages to about 3 days ago and start reading, you'd be covered. I think it was SQ2 who asked the question originally.

[tlew12778]

Tiffany, I love the song story. Can't wait to see the two of you cutting a rug together. :D I hope you fare better than I did in the last minute fox-trot-lesson crunch. B got irritated with me for having a bad attitude (they started doing more advanced stuff right at the end of a 2-hour lesson 2 weeks before our wedding, my brain was fried, and I just started flopping around instead of dancing), and when he gave me the I'm-irritated-with-you look, I burst into tears. :rolleyes: Oh well actually, we have yet to take a group lesson. We are doing a group foxtrot lesson for the first time tomorrow (Monday). All our lessons so far have been private. We got this wedding package at Arthur Murray that includes 6 private lessons, 2 group, and 2 practice sessions. So far, we've done 4 privates.

Clatter - Had you just checked your CM internally? BC I have scratched my cervox before while checking CM. I didn't feel it, but when I went to my last annual, the dr mentioned it was scratched and she could tell which direction I had swept my fingers in.

[sarahburns]

Thanks Mrs.Hill!

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies,

AF arrived yesterday morning around 6am. Bright red flow and some clotting too. Should I consider yesterday as CD1? Not sure how to tell the difference between AF, breakthrough bleeding, and anovulatory bleeding.

-Sam

[Clattercote]

tlew - I don't check internally - it's never felt very good to me, and maybe it's exactly because of this - my cervix gets easily irritated? How interesting that the doc can tell these things though -

[ADSigMel]

Sam, CONGRATULATIONS! Yes, I believe you do count yesterday as CD1, since, as far as I know, you'll never really be able to tell if what you're having now is breakthrough bleeding or what. The cycle does look pretty annovulatory, though. Maybe this cycle will be better for you.

[Clattercote]

Sam - This is good - there is movement - but I still don't think this is a true AF... the best thing to do right now is keep charting on the same chart and in a few days we'll know whether it was annov or btb.

There is actually a way to tell if this is annov or not if you keep charting on the same chart through the end of this AF-type thing, and keep a close watch on whether you see some fertile looking CM, especially toward the end of A. If you see fertile CM, this is probably BTB (breakthrough bleeding) and you'll see a temp shift in the next 5-7 days. If you see dry up, then the cycle was annov and you can shift the data to a new chart. But
I'm HIGHLY suspicious that that this is breakthrough bleeding you're seeing, because your temps were so low for so many days before "AF" appeared. Many peoples' temps dive a day or so before AF, but not 5 days before AF, which suggests that your body is gearing up for an O soon. (BTW, this is where a lot of people who don't chart get pg, because they think it's AF but it's actually a BTB which signals the BEGINNING of a fertile period, rather than the beginning of an infertile period. So one of the benefits of charting is noticing this kind of thing)

If the cycle is annov, you won't notice CM, and you'll dry up after AF. In this case, you'll probably see O signs in 14-16 days - so this is a possibility for your last cycle - but your temps most likely would also have been less stable on CDs 46-50. If, after about a week, you notice dry up and no temp stuff going on, then you can transfer the data to a new chart and assume that this cycle was annov.

[sarahburns]

OK - I'm going to do this! Thanks for all the information thus far.


screen name/chart link (if applicable/wanting link) Post both WC & LJ names if different
Real name: Sarah Burns, 25
DH's/FH's/BF's name: Jon
Occupation: non-profit MKTG/PR
Married (date of or date planned): June 4, 2005
Started charting (date, if known): April 2, 2006
TTC: unknown

[southerner]

welcome sarahburns!

Sammy, It will be interesting to see what happens the next few days.

[raven077]

sarah, welcome!

[raven077]

How long did all of you chart before UDD?

Heh.. um... three weeks? :o But I've had an obvious shift so I am assuming (though I should never assume, right?) that this is definitely my infertile time even though I've been getting some sticky/creamy CF.

It was funny.. immediately afterwards, he looked at me and said, "Was that it?" I was like, "Was what it?" Him: "Did we just make our little girl?" Me (laughing but giddy): "Wow... no.. I mean, technically it shouldn't be able to happen.." But it was still cute. Later, I showed him the Ovusoft chart since it's full color and very descriptive in the fertile/nonfertile stages so he could REALLY begin to understand what it is I'm/we're doing. :)

[kemaji]

Welcome Sarah!

Updated to here.

[Clattercote]

Raven - If you have a noticeable shift and you're following the rules for when you can begin UDD after a temp shift (at least 3 days of confirmed shift, combined with 4 days of dry up from what counts as fertile CM for you), then I think you're fine to assume you're in your infertile phase. The reason that TCOYF and others recommend waiting three cycles is because, as a beginner, it can be difficult to detect temp shifts and fertile-quality CM. You seem to have done that just fine, so I wouldn't worry about it!

BTW, the creamy/sticky CM may be part of your BIP (basic infertile pattern) but we can't say that for sure till you've charted for a while longer.

[Janey]

Welcome, Sarahburns. Definitely buy Taking Charge of Your Fertility (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060937645/qid=1144078341/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-1862122-3676160?s=books&v=glance&n=283155), or borrow it from the library. It will be an eye-opening experience.


I think I'm having my first annovulatory cycle. My EWCM has dried up without the temp jump I usually see. Of course, I did not do the Daylight Savings Time Polka, which could be part of the issue -- we shall see what happens over the next few days. But, I'm pretty sure that I'm in a bad spot.

I think I've told you all this before, but I lost a significant amount of weight after I was diagnosed with PCOS. On the way down the scale, I started ovulating on my own again (I think -- I wasn't charting, but I had severe o-pains one month) around 170 lbs. Well, I'm nearing that marker again going the other way, and I think it's screwing with my cycles. The last two cycles I've had pretty long periods of EWCM. Right there on page 170 of TCOYF, it states (emphasis mine):

In order to ovulate, most women probably need at least 20% body fat. But just as being underweight can prevent ovulation altogether, being overweight can also alter your cycles by causing excessive production of estrogen, which interferes with the nrmal feedback system of the hormonal cycle. Some of the signs of excessive estrogen are prolonged periods of fertile cervical fluid buildup, delayed ovulation, and irregular cycles.

Well, there you have it. I have Excessive Estrogen. I knew I wasn't 'just reeeeally fertile.' That'd be too good to be true. She goes on to say:

To eliminate hormonal imbalances due to being under or overweight, you should try to attain a normal weight through wholesome foods and exercise.
... thanks for the tip, Toni.

[ADSigMel]

Thanks for the BTB vs. annov info, Clatter. That's good to know. It actually makes me wonder of some of my AF's over the past year have been real AF at all. In fact, my 3rd and 4th cycles might actually have just been one super-long (like, 154 days :eek: ) cycle. I did have fertile CM pretty much throughout both of those cycles.

Welcome to the thread, Sarah!

Raven, that's a cute story! My husband let me explain the temp shift stuff to him, but he covers his ears when I start talking about CM. :rolleyes:

[Clattercote]

MrsHill - It's interesting what you mention about weight, because one of the other boards I frequent discussed how their PCOS symptoms (for SOME people) were alleviated or exacerbated at certain weight thresholds. That didn't hold true for all of them, but for quite a few -

I think I have excessive estrogen too (which can play a role in low progesterone), and I've also gained a lot of weight this year, which is exactly when I started seeing issues in my cycles. So I've been thinking there's a correlation in my weight, but I'm so unable to lose it. I've switched to a nearly-all whole grain/fruits and veggies diet in the past 3 months, and I exercise everyday - and no weight loss. Argh. :rolleyes:


ADSigMel - It sounds like it might have been btb - if you want to post those particular charts we could look and see...

[raven077]

Clattercote, thank you! :D

[Janey]

ADSigMel, have you been checked for PCOS? Cause this: "I did have fertile CM pretty much throughout both of those cycles." sounds very much like what I went through, along with loooong annovulatory cycles.

Clattercote, I feel your pain. I've been trying to lose weight since February, and have only succeeded in gaining 2 pounds. B and I are going "back in the box" (AKA Back on our strict diet program that we used to lose the weight in the first place) very soon. TTC time is coming up in June -- only 3 months away!! -- and I am worried about the future. I am also more than a little disappointed with myself for letting my weight get this far out of control. I mean - I did the whole weight loss thing so I could theoretically have kids sometime in the future. That was my incentive! And I can't keep it under control - not even for my babies. It makes me feel like a crappy mom, and I'm not even pregnant yet.

[dana92504]

[QUOTE=Clattercote]Sam -
There is actually a way to tell if this is annov or not if you keep charting on the same chart through the end of this AF-type thing, and keep a close watch on whether you see some fertile looking CM, especially toward the end of A. If you see fertile CM, this is probably BTB (breakthrough bleeding) and you'll see a temp shift in the next 5-7 days. If you see dry up, then the cycle was annov and you can shift the data to a new chart. But
I'm HIGHLY suspicious that that this is breakthrough bleeding you're seeing, because your temps were so low for so many days before "AF" appeared. Many peoples' temps dive a day or so before AF, but not 5 days before AF, which suggests that your body is gearing up for an O soon. (BTW, this is where a lot of people who don't chart get pg, because they think it's AF but it's actually a BTB which signals the BEGINNING of a fertile period, rather than the beginning of an infertile period. So one of the benefits of charting is noticing this kind of thing)
QUOTE]

clattercote - from what you wrote to sam, do you think this may be the case for me? i had no idea what to do with my chart(s) for the past couple of months; i didn't know you could tell btwn btb and annov....

[dana92504]

sarah - welcome! :D

clattercote - i did some searches to try to find causes of this prolonged period i seem to be having and i found an article on webmd that said this could be due to an under/over active thyroid. so that could also be what's causing issues with your weight too.

[Clattercote]

Dana - Something's definitely going on with your chart, and I think it probably is BTB. But whereas in a lot of cases, BTB is followed by a fairly quick O, your body didn't, in the end, decide to O, after all and it looks like you're continuing to have some BTB along with some fertile CM. I think it the bleeding you saw starting around 3/11 and the later bleeding is BTB because there's no clear temp shift in the cycle before and you immediately see very fertile CM. But it looks like your body is still gearing up to O and hasn't yet and so wants to keep getting rid of excess uterine lining. By contrast, in the other charts listed on your home page in FF, you can see really clear thermal shifts, so there, it's not BTB.

Thanks for the suggestion about thyroid. I have had my thyroid checked numerous times, especially becuase my sister and grandmother have had thyroid issues, and because my basal body temps are fairly low (range from 96.4 to 97.1 pre-O) - but the tests always came out normal. I keep wondering, though, if there isn't something wacky going on with the thyroid, even IF the tests are normal.

[Clattercote]

MrsHill - NK! I keep thinking that pg would be better for me and baby if I were a few pounds lighter - and I keep thinking, "So, I have X number of months to lose the weight" (We'll be TTC in early 2007 I think). But as each month goes by, I feel more and more discouraged.

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. AF is still here. Today is day 3 of AF and its pretty light. Just glad my cramps are all gone!

Clattercote thank you for the info on the BTB. I will definitely keep charting on my current chart and see what CM I have after AF is gone.

Just wanted to check in.

Sam

[dana92504]

thanks clatter - i'm going to the doc fri so i'll see what they say then :(

isn't kinda weird to *hope* you have thyroid issues? i've been steadily gaining weight the past year or two and it'd be kinda nice to have something else to blame other than my own lazy self :p

[ADSigMel]

MrsHill, I'm not good at ready Ovusoft charts at all, and I'm not entirely sure what that thumb means (I read Art of NFP, not TCOYF, so I don't know the rule of thumb), but it looks to me like you may have had a temp shift. If you shave the 97.7 on CD16 down to 97.5, you have peak day on CD19, with three days of higher temps on CD19, 20, and 21. I diagnosed myself with PCOS a good 7 years ago, and my gyn at the time concurred, but she never tested me and told me that as long as I didn't have painful symptoms and I wasn't trying to get pregnant, to just be glad that my period only came a few times a year. :rolleyes: It's time for my annual, so as soon as I get everything sorted out so I can be on my husband's insurance, I'm going to see about getting tested. I definitely have the weight issues, too...I have found it pretty close to impossible to lose weight all my life. It has only gotten worse the older I've gotten. Every time I lose 10 pounds, I gain another 20.

Clattercote, I posted the two cycles I mentioned on my FF home page. Would you mind taking a look? Now that I look at them again, it doesn't seem possible that my "AF" was BTB, because it was almost three months before I finally O'd. What do you think? Oh, and about the thyroid stuff, I've been tested, too, and my levels were sort of low, but in the normal range. But I don't think I trust that, since my average LTL for the past six months or so has been terribly low, my weight is impossible to control, and my cycle lengths are just ridiculous. Fertility Cycles and Nutrition says that the standard tests are not always adequate for detecting low thyroid function.

Dana, LOL, I hope with all my heart that I have thyroid issues. It would make me feel so much better!

[Janey]

Since I have the book out, I looked up Rule of Thumb:

If you have an occasional temperature that is artificially high due to reasons such as fever, a restless night's sleep, or alcohol consumption the night before, you may cover the outlying temperature with your thumb when you are determining your coverline. Circle the outlying temperature as you would any other, but then draw dotted lines between the temperatures on either side, so that it doesn't interfere with your ability to interpret your chart. You essentially ignore the abnormal temperature, and thus still must count back the required six days not including the day eliminated, to determine your coverline.

You should also be aware that temperatures tend to rise about two-tenths of a degree for every hour you sleep in, but gain, you simply follow the guidelines above. See the box on page 80 for how to handle special circumstances such as Daylight Savings and night shifts, as well as page 312 in Appendix A for how to deal with fevers.

All of that being said, today, Ovusoft has decided that I O'ed on CD19. This could be correct or could not be correct. I think it would be clearer if our country decided not to believe in DST. I did not do anything for Daylight Savings Time. I went to bed and woke at the same time each day, depending on what my clock told me to do. If I was to shave .2 off of of the post-DST temps, they're right in there with Pre-O temps. So who the heck knows.

But, perhaps I shouldn't feel like a 'terrible mom before I even get pregnant' because I did not do the DST Boogie, and there's not yet information enough to tell me whether or not I am not, for sure, ovulating.

[ADSigMel]

MrsHill, thanks for the Rule of Thumb info. That's about like what I thought it was (like the open circles on FF, yes?). Anyway, I tend to agree with Ovusoft about your O date. Even if you didn't do anything special to your temp time for DST, if you just went by the clock, you were waking up an hour *before* your regular time, not an hour later, so, if anything, your temps would have been even higher had the time not changed. So, Sunday, Monday, and today, if time hadn't changed your temps would have been about 98.2, 98.0, and 98.2 if you adjusted them. Does that sound about right?

[Clattercote]

ADSigMel - I think in long cycles like the ones here, it's really hard to say. Using the definitions of BTB in the Art of NFP, though, I'd say that your second guess is probably right - this isn't techically BTB because you don't see any fertile CM in the second cycle till several days after AF ends. I think BTB is characterized by Art of NFP as almost covering up fertile signs in a long cycle. The spotting that you see in the middle of the first cycle followed by some more fertile stuff 2-3 days later almost counts, except that the temps are all over the place - so I'd go with annov.

Did your doc prescribe ALL of the possible tests for thyroid? Because sometimes you can have low thyroid function because your body is low in copper (I think that's the mineral) or some other minerals that the body needs in order to use the hormones properly. So your body might be making enough hormone but is unable to use it - - and when they screen for that, they pick it up readily enough?

I think I've been screened for everything darn it. I do test low, but not low enough for any intervention.

[ADSigMel]

I have no idea what she tested me for. But she only did one test, as far as I know (for thyroid at least - she also tested my FSH/LH and said it was also low, but ok). I don't think I'm low on any vitamins or minerals. I take a multivitamin, calcium and magnesium supplements, and a super-charged B-complex supplement. I use the guidelines in Fertilty Cycles and Nutrition, so what I take is like Optivite, only a LOT cheaper. But when I go to my next annual, I'll ask about that.

This cycle seems to be going pretty normally. I had a tiny, tiny amount of EWCM when I checked internally last night. I wish I had more CM. I've only had any noticeable external CM at all a couple of times since I started charting last year. I thought green tea was supposed to help with scant CM, but it sure hasn't been helping me. *shrug* Anyway, temps have been pretty regular, so maybe I'll actually O sometime this cycle. *fingers crossed*

[motray36]

Hi everyone!
Well, AF showed up today...which is nice since I was not charting very well this cycle (too many late nights/stress/etc.). So, I am on a quest to be responsible this cycle :)

[angelraven]

CD82, cramping and irratibility went away. No sign of AF in sight again. ARGH!!! My pap results came back normal, so I'm going in for some bloodwork to check hormone levels again to see if they're even worse.

Suckage!

[TheMarieke]

Hello!! New Member here!

Someone referred me to this thread from another board when I posted a question about FAM and I am SO GLAD!! I don't know anyone else who regularly uses FAM to TTA (although I do know a few who use it to TTC and have used it temporarily to TTA, though they wouldn't really care if they got pregnant, so it's not quite the same).

Here's some background on my charting:

FH and I are waiting till we're married to DTD, so I'm very familiar with my CM without the effects of SR. Since I haven't had to worry about actually TTAing, I've TAB from charting for a full cycle and for parts of cycles previously.

My cycles are generally short (average 25 days, shortest 24, highest 27-once), and AF usually lasts about 5-6 days with a day of spotting, so I think that's why I have a "sticky BIP". Over the next few cycles, I want to get back into checking my CM and CP internally. I have mainly been temping and noting CM "as I see it" on my undies or TP. Also, I temp vaginally since I have allergies and am a mouth-breather.

I use FF as a guide/tool for charting since it's free and I can use it at home or enter in my info at work (I usually am rushing out the door and don't note my temps till I get to the office :rolleyes: )

I just had my annual OBGYN visit today and I have to say I'm a little disappointed that my Dr. didn't hear me out a little more in regards to my charts and FAM. I was hoping he might take a look at my charts, but even though he was really good about answering my questions about everything else, I didn't feel he didn't really listen to me very well when I asked him for advice about FAM/NFP.

He told me that from looking at one of my charts, it's obvious that I'm ovulating, but it's not clear when. I think my charts are pretty clear (unless I don't note everything or don't take my temp) and my cycle is very regular, so using FAM works well. He also said that the "infertile phase" I listed is longer than necessary because "sperm live a couple days". It is my understanding that sperm can live up to 5-7 days in fertile CM! I have my fertile phase starting 3 days after AF arrives and ending according to FAM rules. I figure better safe than sorry!

He wasn't against our choice and didn't try to get me to use the Pill, but I just left with a wierd feeling. Anyone else have an experience like that? I just don't know what to think...

Thanks!!

Here's my info:

TheMarieke
Real name: Marieke (22)
FH's name: Nathan (21)
Occupation: Insurance Agent/Broker
To be Married: 8/26/06
Started charting: May 25, 2005 (First full cycle)
TTC: 2009-2010 (unless God decides otherwise!)

[honeygirl]

TheMarieke- Welcome! My dr wasn't very interested in charting either, she didn't believe that I was ovulating even though my temp shifts were clear! She wanted to put me on clomid, fortunately my progesterone test was high enough that she didn't (of course I would have refused anyway). I honestly think that most Dr's aren't trained in charting and so they don't trust it. Silly.

[FSUSammy]

TheMarieke - Welcome. I've heard that a lot of docs are ignorant to FAM/NFP. I agree with honeygirl in that I think docs are just not trained in how CM and temps play into determining O.

As for you temping vaginally. I have severe allergies and am a mouth breather too and temp orally. I assume you tried temping orally at one time or another, what kind of problems did you have with that??? I'm only a few cycles into FAM so I'm still learning a lot.

Sam

[motray36]

TheMarieke - Welcome! I applaud your decision to wait to DTD :) As for docs, my experience has been similar to what others have said and to what you've expressed...they generally (I am generalizing...kudos to all great, understanding OB's) just don't "get it" or they think its all the rhythm method. One doc actually tried to push a perscription for the morning after pill on me, "just in case." I'm not on the pill, but yes, I would like an insanely high dose just in case. Don't be discouraged...you will learn to take it with a grain of salt! And the wonderful women on this site will be able to help you tremendously!

ADSigMel What is the supplement that you take that is similar to Optivite? My cycles are screwy and I've been wanting to try Optivite, but I feel like I'd have to take out a second mortgage to do so.

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

Welcome TheMarieke!

[dana92504]

welcom TheMarieke :D

[Clattercote]

Welcome, TheMarieke! Sounds like your doc really has no clue and was trying to cover up some general ignorance. I've experienecd this before too and I figure you can either try to educate him/her, or just go with your own knowledge of this. I mean, if the doc didn't really say anything outrightly nasty, you've actually probably found a pretty good doc.

If you're really concerned about your charts (like you think there's a medical problem or something going on that your charts tell you) you might try to find an NFP/FAM only doc - these websites list a few: http://www.omsoul.com/nfp-only.php
http://www.ovusoft.com/protcoyf/search.asp

[TheMarieke]

Thank you all for the warm welcome!! I am so glad to have found this place :D

Sam, My charts were really "rocky" when I temped orally. I had temps all over the place. Here is a comparison between my first fully charted cycle (temped orally) compared to a more recent vaginally temped cycle. There is a HUGE difference! Sometimes my charts aren't quite that definite (usually because of something I do - ie: taking temp at a different time), but it's definitely a lot more clear and you can see the temp shift much more clearly.

Orally temped: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a32/Marieke1983/Cycle%20Chart%20Pics/Cycle1Pic.jpg

Vaginally temped: http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a32/Marieke1983/Cycle%20Chart%20Pics/Cycle1806Pic.jpg

PS: Can I post pics in a thread? I am not sure what the rules are...

[FSUSammy]

TheMarieke - Thanks for sharing. There is a definite difference. I'll definitely keep an eye on my charting and maybe try out a cycle where I temp vaginally to see what happens.

I noticed the charts were on fertility friend. You can post a link to your chart if you want. If I remember correctly there is info on how to do it on the first page of this thread.

Sam

[TheMarieke]

There is a link to my homepage in my sig, however I can't choose which charts it will show since I don't have VIP membership. I have saved all my charts in PDF format (I've done it each time I get the free VIP trial) so I just took a screen shot, saved it as a jpeg and cropped it. I think I might do that for all my charts and put them up in Photobucket. Works pretty well!

I just took a look at your charts and I'd definitely suggest trying to temp vaginally. You might see your charts even out like mine did. It's not all that hard to get used to either.

I haven't seen an Ovusoft chart before I saw yours. I REALLY like how it's laid out and that it does the TTA chart. I might have to get it!!

[ADSigMel]

What is the supplement that you take that is similar to Optivite? My cycles are screwy and I've been wanting to try Optivite, but I feel like I'd have to take out a second mortgage to do so.

I take a standard one-a-day multivitamin (Equate brand Complete Multivitamin), and I supplement it with magnesium with chelated zinc (Spring Valley brand, available at Wal-Mart), calcium with added Vitamin D and Zinc (Spring Valley brand), and GNC Big 100, which is a B-Complex with several thousand times the RDA of the B vitamins. It costs me about one-third as much as an equal amount of Optivite.

Welcome to the thread, Marieke!

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies. Got a question. Is spotting normally more brown than red??? I had some brown gunk today and not much of it either.

Still waiting to see if I need to move onto another chart or continue my current chart.

Sam

[TheMarieke]

Sam, If it's not red, I consider it spotting, especially if there's not much. I usually don't spot prior to AF, but I know some women do.

I generally spot at the end of AF and if there no red or pink, I chart it as spotting, not AF.

[SQ2]

So, I'm thinking the travel, anxiety, and daylight savings time definitely delayed my O. Ovusoft kept moving my coverline down in the past week or so. Why is that? If I have another high temp tomorrow morning does that mean I will have O'd?

Hey, one good thing about cycles being longer - AF comes less often. :D

ETA ~ My past post-O temps have been above 98 degrees I believe. I'm not sure why this cycles my temps seem lower.

[Janey]

SQ2, My "post-o" temps are lower this cycle as well. If they even are post-o temps -- I'm still not totally convinced I O'ed this cycle. Maybe this lower-temp stuff has something to do with Daylight Savings Time??

(For chart peekers - Yesterday's temp was 98.2, but today's was 97.9. We ordered a new cord for the monitor yesterday. Hopefully it'll be here early in the week!)

[FSUSammy]

Ok ladies. Today is the first day without AF or spotting. My temps have remained low and I've been rather dry. So....is it safe yet to say that I'm onto a new chart??? Haven't updated my temps online because I know the SW is going to consider it a new chart immediately as soon as I enter in my first day of AF.

Sam

[TheMarieke]

Sam So you had AF and spotting? Your chart should start the first day of obvious AF. If you've had AF, then yeah, start a new chart!

[ADSigMel]

Sam, based on Clatter's explanation of the difference between AF and BTB, the fact that you are dry now sounds to me like you can count it as a true AF and start a new chart. Clatter, does that sound right?

MrsHill, I still think you O'd right where OS says you did. If you shave the temp on CD16 down to 97.5, even if you were down at 97.9 this AM, that's still .4 above your LTL. Since it coincides so well with your peak day, I don't see anything to make me think it wasn't an O. It's not quite as much of a spike as you usually have, but it still looks pretty significant to me.

[FSUSammy]

TheMarieke - Yeah had AF then a day of spotting. The only reason why I asked is because my last cycle looked possibly anovulatory and it could have been break through bleeding so I just wanted to make sure before I started a new chart.

[TheMarieke]

Oooh, I see. I don't think I've charted an anovulatory cycle, so I'm not familiar with them.

[Janey]

Ya know, I think you're right, ADSigMel. I don't know why it's so hard for me to believe I O'ed this cycle. :rolleyes: I just looked through all my previous cycles (I suppose this is where charting for a length of time is helpful!!). My post-o temps are pretty right in line with my usual post-o temps... and my pre-o temps are just a little higher than normal.


And - Welcome TheMarieke! What a lovely name. Are you Dutch?

[TheMarieke]

MrsHillMy Mom's side of the family is Dutch, so I am partly Dutch. The only odd thing is that my family has always pronounced my name like Marijke for some reason (I found out that this is *technically* incorrect - although I guess they didn't standardize spelling till more recently).

How did you guess? Most people have to ask me!

[Clattercote]

FSUSammy - Yup, it looks to me like the last cycle was truly annov and starting a new chart is a fine idea (just like AdSigMel said! :) )

MrsHill - I went back and looked at Cycle 4 for you, and the CL then was 1/10 degree lower than the one for this cycle. So even though some of the temps that begin the temp rise are lower than the last cycle, the general shift is in the same general area, kwim? So I agree with AdSigMel, I think there's a temp shift for you, especially given the dry up!

[clzj]

subscribing

[Reenie]

Please remove me from the list.

Not really sure if we'll stick to our original plan, but moving more to a SWH stance for now and I don't want to mess up the stats. :)

[Janey]

Congrats, Reenie! I hope you'll come back and let us know when you get the BFP. :)

[FSUSammy]

Reenie - Good Luck and definitely come back and tell us when it happens.

Sam

[ADSigMel]

Good luck, Reenie. I hope you get a BFP soon!

[southerner]

bye Reenie! Keep in touch ;)

welcome TheMarieke

I'm still here :o

[kemaji]

Updated to here. Congrats, Reenie! Be sure to keep us updated!

TheMarieke -- I was wondering the same thing, because of your name. I was named after my Dutch great-grandma.

[stevesbabygirl]

Ack, my cycle is totally bugging me this month! I've had like 6 days of what appears to be EWCM. I thought I would be done by today, but I had a slippery, watery CM with no stretch, so I don't know what to call it. Plus, my temps have been in the high 97's for the past few days, but my coverline is really high because of some odd temps I've had. Can someone look at my chart and see if it needs to be adjusted anywhere? I'm thinking of using the Rule of Thumb on CD14.

[Clattercote]

stevesbabygirl - I don't see a definite temp shift yet - let's wait till the CM dries up and then we can look back at the pattern and use the rule of thumb, etc., where we need to. But at the moment, there just aren't the required three temps above 6 temps. From looking at your previous charts, it does look like you have a tendency to have stair step rises (meaning that the temp rises then falls back then rises again, leading to a gradual rise) - these can be tricky for figuring out the CL, but that's why it's best to wait till you've had a couple of definite dry up days.

[stevesbabygirl]

Thanks Clattercote! I just checked my CM again, and it's thick and white, with some stretch to it. Not sure what to call it, but I guess I'll stick with EW.

[kemaji]

stevesbabygirl -- I frequently get lots of days of EWCM before I O, and the quality/consistency changes throughout the time that I have it. It can range anywhere from clear/slippery/stretchy to white/stretchy to yellow tinged/clumpy to what looks like half dried rubber cement. Because it is clearly not creamy or sticky CM and we're TTA, I lump all of those under EW for safety's sake.

[TheMarieke]

Anyone done the Couples-to-Couples League NFP classes? Or home study course? I only have TCOYF, and have been thinking about taking the CCL home study course (possibly go to a class also, but the closest one is an hour and a half away).

Is it helpful, or not necessary?

[motray36]

I did the home study course; it's basically reading the Art of NFP, plus submitting your charts for 3 cycles to their experts to make sure you are doing it right. The membership includes the book, a thermometer, 12 cycles worth of charts, and a years subscription to their magazine. The magazine is a Catholic-focused magazine that deals with NFP issues. The course was helpful for me because I hadn't found this group yet - but in hindsite, I wish I would have saved the cash and just gotten a book and found this group! I'm also not Catholic, and while I appreciate the no birth-control thing, I don't follow it, so alot of what the book/magazine talked about was irrelevent to me. I went to your wedding website, and in turn your church website (very cool looking church as a side note)...so, I am editing to add:
As a Christian, I find a lot of the CLC magazine stuff to be pretty interesting, because I'm generally conservative..it is a pretty religious focused magazine and NFP is a pretty religious book. Just putting that out there!

[Clattercote]

CCLI - I took the course but honestly found that reading the book worked just aswell for me since I was already familiary with TCOYF. However, I would recommend getting the book (if you get the home study course, you do get the national experts to give you some guidance on reading the charts) - but do be aware that Art of NFP has a different temperature analysis scale - one that I find quite helpful, actually, and one that is more finely tuned than TCOYF because it's helpful for seeing ambiguous temp rises. But it can be a bit confusing at first, and a bit frustrating - so if you want to have some people there to help you out, go ahead and take the course.

[TheMarieke]

I think I definitely want to get the Art of NFP so I can fine tune my knowledge and understanding. I might be able to get some help from a teaching couple even if I don't do the full course.

[FSUSammy]

Got a question for those of you that have charted for awhile. My annual is coming up in July and I have to schedule it soon. Problem is I have no idea WHEN in July I won't be having AF since my cycles have been unpredictable. The last thing I want to do is schedule something now and then in June figure out that the appointment I made won't work and then have to reschedule and not be able to get in until August/September.

Anyone have any recommendations on what to do?

Thanks!
Sam

[kemaji]

Sam -- I would make a best guess. My cycles are fairly regular and I just had to reschedule my annual because I misjudged things by 1 day. I know I'm not much help....

[SQ2]

So can you not have an annual exam during AF? My annual appt is coming up in May. Although there's no way I can predict if I'll have AF then or not. This cycle is the longest yet at CD41! (I think it was to do with travel and time change and stress.) It seems like I may have O'd but I can't confirm that yet. I thought my temp was on the rise and then it went a bit lower this morning. I feel like I'm cheering my body on. You can do it, you can ovulate!

[FSUSammy]

SQ2 - I'm pretty sure the doc wouldn't appreciate you having AF, I know I wouldn't as a doc. I think TCOYF mentions it somewhere I'll have to look it up tonight when I get home.

[SQ2]

Yeah, that's what I figured. I know it wouldn't be preferable but I didn't know if it actually messed up test results (i.e. a pap smear). I figure doctors are used to blood. So far off the pill I've only had 2, maybe three days of "heavy" flow. I say that in quotes because I think it's fairly light compared to most people. At least to my sisters - they hate me for my light periods. LOL.

[HisSpicy]

I'm in college, and in the spring there is the annual national college health survey. Really long, asks about all health-related issues, about yourself and your view of your campus. During the section about sex it was asking if you used condoms during this type or that type of sex, the last time, during the last 30 days, when you were drunk, etc. I was thinking how it would be reflecting kind of innacurately when I was saying no, don't use condoms, because the results could look like I was having "risky behavior sex"- but I knew we weren't. BUT, at the end of the sex section it asks about what type of contraceptives you use, and to my happy surprise, Fertility Awareness was on there! And it even had in parenthesis "cervix, mucous, basal body temperature" so it was accurately labeled and not grouped in with Rythm. May be a silly thing to make a girl's day, but I thought you guys would understand! :)

[southerner]

HisSpicy, thanks for sharing, that's cool!

[tlew12778]

It can skew the results of your PAP. Most drs prefer not to do it then bc it you get abnormal results, they just have to do another when you are not having AF.

[dana92504]

hisspicy - that's really cool!!! :cool:

[stephie61706]

So I think I may be going back on BC for a few months. My wedding is coming up and the way it looks now, I will be getting AF for the wedding and honeymoon, not my idea of a very fun honeymoon. Grrrr and I was just starting to get the hang of this stuff :(

[tlew12778]

You could try the instead cups. They will send you a sample if you ask. Fortunately I will not have AF but I will be pre-O for most of the HM, esp. if O is delayed due to travel or stress. So basically condoms the whole HM. Great.

[stephie61706]

I have never heard of instead cups, what are they?

[Janey]

Tiffany... you must be getting close to your wedding... how many days now??

Stephie, I'm not sure I would mess up my body by going back on BC to avoid period during HM. I've never tried the Instead Cups, but they are worth a look. here's a link (http://www.softcup.com/).


The "No Christmas Babies" mantra worked; I am CD1 today. :)

[tlew12778]

7 days! So... I sort of had to leave the dance floor last night at practice bc I was ready to cry. Thought of you again... I was just really frustrated with FH's total lack of concentration and the fact that he kept having to ask me what came next. WTF? We have one private lesson and one practice left before the wedding. He needs to get on the ball and start practicing his half while walking down the hospital corridors. It doesn't help that I am totally stressed out bc I am sick. Must.Get.Better.Before.The.Wedding.

Steph - There is another thing called the keeper but I don't know if you can DTD with that in.

[stephie61706]

Thanks, I'll have to check them out. I really didn't want to go back on BC, but we've been abstaining for over a year so I am really looking forward to the HM!

[Janey]

RIGHT ON! 7 days! How exciting! :D Good luck. Can't wait to hear a full report upon your return.

About the dancing... believe me, I understand how stressed and frustrated you are/were. Just think about it this way: You know the basic step, the rock turn, the box turn, and an under-arm turn. That's WAY MORE than anybody else in your 'audience' will know, and they'll be blown away that you know how to dance, just because you know those few simple things. Anything you do on top of those things will be gravy. :)

B and I knew a few moves that we didn't do for The Big Dance because we were too nervous about doing them during in front of people because we thought we might screw 'em up. But you know ... I will never, ever forget the way they cheered at the end! It will be so worth it. You're going to love it. :D

[tlew12778]

Yeah I know... I keep telling myself that no one will be able to tell if we mess up bc they don't know the whole program. Plus, they can't see my feet just in case he messes up a turn (like, he likes to turn halfway through the basic step, not at the beginning so my feet end up wide apart and I have to quickly step to get them back together...). Our teacher is making us bow at the end. How cheesy is that? Everyone else kisses, but we have to bow/curtsy.

[Janey]

Ohhh I don't know, I think it's sort of sweet. A little 'thank you' courtesy thing to your guests. Heck -- just bow/curtsy, and then kiss. :D Our instructor taught us a dip, and then as he brought me up from the dip I think he kissed me. Basically the same thing.

[Clattercote]

tlew - Oh, man, I was sick before my wedding too - fingers crossed that you get better!

Stephie - I agree with what others have said - why not try Instead, especially since you're just getting in the swing of things with charting?

The Keeper - I use this and cannot imagine DTD with it in - it works with suction action and once it's in it fits closely to the vag walls - I just think there'd be no room in there for anything else ;)

[tlew12778]

Ah yes, that's exactly what the dance instructor said -- that it was a thank you to all the guests for coming :).

Oh look I found a pic of the instead vs the keeper:
http://www.mum.org/KeeperInsteadpic.htm

I definitely cannot imagine DTD with the keeper.

[TheMarieke]

I might have/get my period at some point during our HM, too, so this is REALLY helpful info!!

I just ordered the instead starter kit and I am looking forward to seeing how well it works...

[ADSigMel]

Despite my high hopes for this cycle, it would appear that my plumbing is still all jacked up. I've been spotting for days, and although it looks like I've had a significant temp shift, I think I might have just been running a fever for the past few days. I don't want to discard the temps in case they actually did indicate O, but I can't tell yet since I'm still pretty sick. The funky temps thing doesn't bother me nearly as much as the mid-cycles spotting, though.

I check CM internally, and while I've been spotting, it's been, like, brown clumpy EWCM. I'm not sure how to chart that. I've been calling it just spotting, but I'm wondering if it shouldn't be EWCM as well. Suggestions?

[FSUSammy]

ADSigMel - Is the EWCM stretchy? If so then even though its brown and clumpy I'd still consider it EWCM.

[honeygirl]

Hello ladies, I'm back after a week of moving. :)

I'm on CD26 and 4DPO. My O was only a couple days late, which is surprising considering the stress I've been under the last couple of weeks. I started my progesterone suppositories yesterday (had to wait to confirm O) and I'm crossing my fingers that "spot" stays away.

Regarding your annual, I had mine this year during AF. It was hard to pick a date b/c of my weird cycles. My dr was able to do everything but the pap smear, I came back the next week for that part. The DR also said not to worry about the blood, it doesn't bother her since she is very used to it.

[TheMarieke]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that for my very first annual, I thought I had timed it right, but AF arrived WHILE I WAS IN THE OFFICE!! I was sitting there in the waiting room when I feel it and I'm like "Oh crap!" :lol:

It didn't really affect my visit at all since I don't actually need a PAP since I'm not sexually active yet, so I didn't need to come back for it.

[ADSigMel]

ADSigMel - Is the EWCM stretchy? If so then even though its brown and clumpy I'd still consider it EWCM.



It's about as stretchy as my EW ever is. But really, unless it's SR, mine is more clumpy than stretchy, and never really like egg-white. So I should count it as EWCM then, you think?

[FSUSammy]

ADSigMel - I would say if it stretches more than an inch then for safety sake consider it EWCM. If it doesn't consider it creamy. Regardless I'd definitely make note of exactly what you are seeing on your chart just in case it happens again.

[ADSigMel]

Well, last night, I read the Art of NFP chapter on irregular bleeding, and I'm hoping it's BTB. Although, in my case, this happens just about every cycle, not rarely. I assume it's because my cycles are so ridiculously long that some mid-cycle shedding has to occur just because my endometrial lining can't support so much build-up. Plus, this cycle I only had one day of true menstrual flow, followed by several days of spotting, so there was probably a good bit of lining left after my most recent AF.

Yesterday, my CM was creamy, but I'm assuming it will become fertile again and I will ovulate within a week or so. At least that's what I'm hoping will happen. And hopefully it will happen later rather than sooner so I can make sure that my thermal shift is an actual thermal shift and not just illness-induced fever. Because, at this point, for all I know I might have ovulated during the spotting, which I understand may also happen.

Speaking of which, does anyone know how to tell the difference (other than by hindsight) between a fever and a thermal shift? I ask because my temps are never high enough to really be considered "fever" by normal standards, even when I *know* I'm running a fever. The highest temperature I ever recall having in my entire life was around 99.1 degrees. Is there any way to tell for sure that my recent high temps were fever and not thermal shift?

[stevesbabygirl]

I've been MIA for a couple of weeks (sorry!) and I return bearing a question!

I'm 6DPO right now, but after DH and I DTD, the next day, my CM looks kinda like EW, though the other days have been sticky. We used condoms, so it wasn't semen obscured. Is this normal?

[southerner]

steve'sbabygirl, Yes, alot of people (including myself) get fertile CM post O.

ADSigMel, I'm still waiting for you to ask a question I can answer ;)

[SQ2]

stevesbabygirl ~ Hey, ovulation buddy! ;) (Looks like we O'd the same day. Tee hee. I'm a dork. Sorry.)

[stevesbabygirl]

Cool :D!

[honeygirl]

hey wait, I'm your O buddy too! ;) Ah, it's the little things in this thread that count.

http://www.tcoyf.com/forum/chart.asp?id=honeygirl

BTW - I'm still spot free, I think the progesterone suppositories are working!!

[Janey]

BTW - I'm still spot free, I think the progesterone suppositories are working!!
HOORAY! Now that is great news. :D

[CindyM]

screen name: Cindym
Real name: Cindy (26)
DH's name: Louie (31)
Occupation: paralegal
Married : January 17, 2004
Started charting : Will start April, 2006
TTC: don't know yet

[CindyM]

I am planning on getting off of the pill after the pack that I am currently on finishes which is on Sunday. I have read TCOYF and what I understand is that your chart begins on the first day of AF and that it is ok to DTD for the first five days. I think that we should use extra protection for the first month but I don't know if I am right. Also, I take zyrtec for my allergies does anyone know if this will affect anything with charting. Sorry for so many questions right off the bat but I want to make sure that I do this right.

The main reason for going off the pill right now is no sex drive and I have noticed that I am growing more facial hair which is blond but still it is pretty gross. I spoke with a friend that is a RN and she said that getting off the pill would be a good start to see if that is the root of the problem. Can't wait to start this journey with all of you!

[stephie61706]

Welcome Cindy!

[raven077]

CindyM, I'm only on my second cycle off BCP, so I'll let the other ladies confirm and really tackle your questions, but with regards to DTD the first five days of your cycle.. You should wait and see what your normal cycle is. TCOYF says that especially coming right off the Pill, if your cycle is less than 25 days, you're only safe the first THREE days of AF, since ovulation could happen earlier and the start of CF could be masked by AF or spotting.

Personally, we're waiting thru several cycles before DTD unprotected during Phase I. We'll consider ourselves safe after the thermal shift in Phase III. ESPECIALLY this cycle since my first one was only 22 days long.

Oh, and welcome! :D

[ADSigMel]

Hey, Cinday, welcome to the thread!

My temps are still high, and my CM is still dry, so, for lack of a better idea, I'm going to go with FF's O date. *Fingers crossed* that AF shows up this weekend and proves me right.

[CindyM]

Thank all of you ladies for your warm welcome. Raven077 can you tell a difference now that you are off the pill and now are hormone free?

[Clattercote]

ADSigMel - Sinec the temps are staying high, I'm assuming O. If I were you I would be a bit cautious though, because I have seen one chart where there was an apparent shift, but continued fertile CM - a more striking shift appeared a few days later. So if you see some VERY fertile CM, I'd consider that a question mark day.

Stevesbabygirl - Yes, you can see fertile CM post O - if you see it a few days past a temp shift, but with still a few days to go before AF, the conservative, truly TTA thing to do is to treat that day as a question mark, with no UDD. If the CM dries up immediately the next day, so there's no extended patch of it, then assume it was just a quirk. Otherwise, abstain through the length of it, to be on the safe side. (See example above in my reply to ADSigMel) Also, people (such as me) see very fertile quality CM the day just before AF - if that's a pattern, you can pretty safely ignore that.

Cindy - Welcome! I'd go ahead and use protection for the first couple months, just so you get to know your cycle. After you get a bit familiar with charting, then UDD whenever it's safe.

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

Welcome, CindyM!

[TheMarieke]

Welcome CindyM!!

[FSUSammy]

CindyM - Welcome Cindy! I'd use protection for at least 3 cycles until your body regulates itself from the BCPs. I also take zyrtec for my allergies and really haven't noticed any problems with it. I thought it would dry up my CM but it hasn't at all. I also went off because of no sex drive and also horrible migraines due to the pill. For me my sex drive has come back AND migraines have been gone!

[CindyM]

Thanks FSUSammy for the answers! I know my DH will be very pleased if my drive would come back to normal. I am very glad to be here and excited about starting this new chapter! Thanks again to everyone else who has welcomed me.

[kissmary]

I haven't posted here in awhile. Welcome to all the newbies to charting!

I am curently enjoying a random FF VIP trial! :D My chart, for those interested (http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/112767). It's neat to see the chart overlay.

I hate it when I forget my thermometer when I go out of town, like this past weekend.

[raven077]

Cindy, I'm trying to pay close attention to that. I haven't noticed anything definite yet. Though I AM thinking about sex more often and have been the one to initiate. Not sure if it's just wishful thinking or a slow, gradual return to a normal libido. I'm hoping it's the latter. :D

Oh, and my first cycle AF came about 4 days earlier than forecasted and was crazy heavy for 1 day. Ungodly heavy, actually. A little frightening. But then it lightened up for the rest. I'm hoping that it will return to a "normal" flow for good.

[Janey]

CindyM - Welcome! Lack of sex drive was the #1 reason I wanted off the stupid pill (err, Ring ... I did Nuvaring). Another thing, though... at the same time I went off the ring, a lot of stress decreased in my life... so I'm not sure which was the thing that did the trick. They probably both helped! In any case - I hope it works for you.

[motray36]

HI everyone :)

Welcome, CindyM! I echo what the others are saying about using protection the first 3 months...you may see that these first cycles are wacky (to say the least!)

I, too, did not temp this weekend because I was away... and I said I was going to be good this cycle :o . Oh well, I'm still well pre-O so it shouldnt make a difference!

[fsb2005]

Hi ladies - you miss me? ;) I'm back with a question...

So first, big time TMI alert. I'm asking a detailed AF question.

I've posted before about having short, light periods since coming off the pill. This is now my fourth period off the pill.

I guess I don't really remember what "normal" periods were like for me before the pill. On the pill, I'd have 3-4 days of red flow, with a day or so of mild spotting afterwards.

Now, I have one day of medium red flow, and then the red flow seems to stop. However, I have a number of days afterwards (maybe 3-5) of brown spotting. It's almost not spotting though - there is a fair amount of it on the pantiliner (though it hasn't really overflowed it), but it is DARK brown - almost black - and kind of a thick consistency.

I've been recording this as "spotting" since it doesn't require a tampon.

But anyway, I guess since I can't remember back to a "normal" period, I'm wondering whether anyone else's period progresses like this? Do most people have more days of red flow before they move to brown? Is it strange to have multiple days of this almost black thick stuff after only one day of red?

Sorry if I'm grossing anyone else out around lunchtime. :D

--------------------------------
ETA
CindyM - my sex drive did a 180 after coming off the pill. I couldn't believe what a difference it made! I hope it works the same way for you!

[JubileeDawning]

After a long time coming, I'm finally throwing the pills in the trash and picking up charting. I just finished my last pill pack Saturday, so AF should be here todayish, and the journey begins! I just wanted to post a quick hello for now, and to let you all know I'll be joining you. I'm super excited to start, but also a little scared! I know I'll get the hang of it!

Here's my stats:

Real name: Melissa (21)
DH's name: Ryan (24)
Occupation: Grad Student and Waitress
Married: May 28, 2005
Started charting: April 18, 2006
TTC: Someday in the distant future

I, too, like many have said had migraines and decreased sex drive from the pill. I went to my gyno in February and expressed my concerns, and told her I was looking to FAM/NFP and she was totally supportive. Since I wasn't sure, she gave me samples of different pills and the NuvaRing to try in the meantime, so I didn't have to pay for a prescription to end up throwing them away. And that's exactly what I'm doing with the samples. YAY!

Both my DH and I are in Seminary working towards our Masters of Divinity- it's basically a practical theology degree. We eventually want to do mission work somewhere. The morality of the pill was also an issue we struggled with- I had no idea that it could act as an abortive agent- I just took what my old doctor prescribed without question. It's crazy how little information you get sometimes, and that's part of the reason I'm so excited to start charting. We're also nervous since we've relied on the Pill our whole marriage with no mistakes- it's a little scary to take this leap!

I just wanted to give a little introduction- I look forward to getting to know you all!

Melissa

[raven077]

Welcome Jubilee!

[southerner]

welcome aboard CindyM & JubileeDawning!!

ADSigMel, Hoping you stay high and dry and your girl comes soon. Then, you'll have a "normal" cycle.

fsb2005, I get that same brownish thick stuff, a day after AF and sometimes the night before AF arrives. OTOH, my AF is pretty consistently 3-4 days long.

[honeygirl]

Welcome CindyM and Jubilee!

CindyM - I too had my sex drive return after going off the pill. :)

Jubilee - My DH and I had some of the same reservations about the pill's abortive effects as well. I had heard a few years back from my SIL about them, but didn't believe her. I thought she was just being zealous. Anyway, then I did some reading and learned that she was right (whoops). Anyway, welcome to CC and good luck with charting!

[CindyM]

Ok so I am going to start this when my AF comes but I am wondering if I can just check my CM on the toilet paper when I wipe. I know it might be a silly question. Maybe I should just read TCOYF again. Thanks!

[kissmary]

Oh, I forgot, kemaji, can you change my info, I turned 27 last month, and my DH is now 29. Thanks!

[Janey]

CindyM ... it's not a silly question. :) You can check the TP, but it might not be as accurate. I don't check all the way to my cervix, but I do check internally, and found that it has made a big difference in the way I record my CM. For an example... look at my charts 1&2 for external checking, and the rest for internal -- all of a sudden I was recording a lot more EWCM/Creamy CM that either I wasn't seeing or never got to the TP.

[southerner]

CindyM, No such thing as a silly question. We've all asked questions like this and are still asking them. That's what this thread is for. People are not shy here ;) Plus, I guarantee you that someone reading wondered the same thing.

I second what MrsHill said about tp. You'll get more accurate results by checking internally.

[CindyM]

Thanks you guys! I guess I need to get over my modesty and check that way - well since ya'll answered that to check internally how far in do you have to go? Thanks again!

[Janey]

Definitely get over the modesty... this is your body, and it's okay for you to touch it. :) I always figure - I'm going to be dealing with poop, pee, and vomit coming out of other people for about 5 years straight... a little CM coming out of my own body is nothing. :p

As for how far in... I guess... until I get something. Usually 1-2 knuckles.

[raven077]

I'm checking cervix position as well so I get the CF while I'm at it. I think that whole factor is interesting and I like having another sign to check against. (Even if I'm not that adept at telling the difference yet). And I definitely get more that way. Some days I'm Sticky or Creamy, but I don't always notice it on the TP. Heck, today I had a very tiny bit of EW, but I would've chalked it up to Sticky on TP since I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference.

And if you DO decide to check CP, then you go as far as you can until you feel something. That's your cervix. It's the only thing up there. I think kemaji said that in the intro on page 1 as well. :)

[FSUSammy]

CindyM - I tried checking my CM with TP when I first started but I found that it was harder to see it that way. What I do is before I "go" I kinda wipe with my finger to see what I see first if I don't see much I'll check internally to see if some is "hidden". You'll figure out what works best for you.

Welcome JubileeDawning!

[FSUSammy]

CindyM - As for how far you need to go, I go as far as I can. I swear that I can't find my cervix. Sometimes its really just really close so I don't have to go too far to check.

[Clattercote]

CindyM - I don't like checking internally - I just check using folding TP - like others said, you eventually learn what works for you. Hopefully you figure out what works way before I did (It took me 8 months...)

fsb - I dunno - AF can be weird some times and if it's not enough for a tampon, I wouldn't be TOO concerned. The color of it doesn't worry me too much - I think that still fits with "normal" - but if you're worried, it never hurts to ask the gyno the next time you're there.

ETA: Jubilee - Welcome! I've found this board to be quite helpful over the year and a half I've been charting. (And, btw, I did an MDiv myself, and a doctorate in theology as well - so I'm familiar with being fascinated by theology...)

[TheMarieke]

welcome jubilee!

fsb2005, I get pretty dark spotting for a few days after red flow stops. Usually I have red flow the first 3-4 days, then it gets brown and I'll usually have a day where it's a bit clumpy. (from first red flow to end of true spotting is usually 7 days for me) However, I have a short cycle (usually 25-26 days), and I think it's sometimes fertile CM mixing in. I need to start checking CM internally so I can tell better.

[CindyM]

Thanks for all of your replies. My DH doesn't really know the concept that much he just knows that our friends did it and it works so he is willing to try anything so that I don't have to stay on the pill. I did let him know last night that it is extra protection for a few months until I figure out exactly how to do this and to gt the pill out of my system. I am just still so excited - I bought my thermometer last night and will start temping tonight just to get in the habit of it - shouldn't be to hard since I am used to taking a pill.

I think I am correct in this but do I have to wear the exact same pjs every night. I hope not because I like to switch what I wear up. Now I need to start from the beginning to see if I can get any good tips from you ladies. Thanks!:)

[kemaji]

Updated to here.

Welcome, Jubilee!

fsb2005 -- I get very dark spotting after AF, usually about 2 days worth. Red flow is around 4 days long, one day is usually very heavy and the rest are moderate to light. My cycle is short also, usually around 26 days long, but it is my LP that is short. Before I was on BC, I remember my AF being longer and heavy, somewhere in the neighborhood of 6 days plus some spotting at the end.

[kemaji]

Cindy -- Once you get the hang of things, I wouldn't worry too much about what you wear to bed. You'll figure out what affects your temp and what doesn't. In the winter I usually have a ton of layers and in the summer I don't wear much of anything to bed and I've found that my choice of pajamas (or lack thereof) don't really make a difference to my temp.

[TheMarieke]

Cindy, I've never really noticed much as far as different pajamas go either.

While we're on the subject of CM, How often do you check internally? When do you start checking (first day of no red flow?). How often do you check CP & CM? Same time of day for CP?

I want to start getting in the habit of checking my CP and CM again so I can get used to it the next few months before we get married so my chart is even more accurate. I haven't really gotten into the swing of things.

The couple charts I did check CP and CM, I checked my CP and CM internally in the morning and occasionally checked CM throughout the day (usually just once or twice when I had to pee).

I want to make sure I am as accurate as possible!

On a different subject, when/if you have baby fever, what do you do? I've been getting BAD off and on lately. Everyone around me is getting preggers! But there is no way (unless God makes it VERY clear we're supposed to sooner) that we'd TTC till at least late 2007, probably not till mid-late 2008, though. I don't know how I'm gonna last! Hopefully the wedding, setting up our new place, then moving to LA and getting settled there, finding a job, etc will keep me occupied enough to keep me from going insane from baby fever!!!

[FSUSammy]

TheMarieke - I check internally about once or twice a day, usually later in the day because it gives gravity some time to work that stuff down. I haven't mastered checking CP yet, can't seem to ever find my cervix!!

I have BAD baby fever. Granted for a few months I've already "planned" when we'd start trying. On our anniversary last Sept we told each other we wouldn't discuss having a baby until we've been in our house for a year (which is this July). Only reason is because last year we did a HUGE move to be closer to family and sold our old home after being there for a little over a year so we wanted to be stable in a way. Well regardless two weekends ago we happend on the topic and I told DH my plan and he was like WOAH!!! But he wasn't opposed to it. Here's my plan, start trying in September. If we get lucky on the first try then the baby would be due around June of next year, which would put us in our house for almost 2 years (good sign) and we'd almost have been married for 3 years (also another good sign). There really is no reason why we need to wait till then but I'd just feel better. Who knows I may bump it up a month to August, ya never know!

Sorry to make this so lengthy. I think if you have your priorities you will be busy with that. Granted if God says its your time, its your time! Don't let the pressure of others getting PG make you want to get PG too.

Sam

[TheMarieke]

Yeah, I don't feel pressured by anyone but myself! It's my dream more than anything to be a mom (hopefully SAHM). My logic tells me that it doesn't make sense to start trying anyway. I do want to have a few years of marriage under our belts before we start trying. I feel like God has some things He wants to do before we start TTC! Reminding myself of that always makes me feel a little better :D

ETA: I mean start trying right after we get married in August. To give a little background, we're getting married in August, moving to Los Angeles/Hollywood Jan/Feb 2007 so DF can do a recording arts program and get into the post-production field (editing movies, TV shows, video games - primarily for sound). he'll finish the program in the Fall and focus on interning with whatever company he wants to work with. Meanwhile, I'll be working to support us and possibly taking some night classes myself (might wait till DF can support us to go back to school).

[TheMarieke]

Oh, and FSUSammy, I have found that if I check my CP earlier in the morning and use my middle finger (longest one!) I can usually find my cervix. It took me a little while, especially since my fingers are short, but I found it!!

[raven077]

TheMarieke, you should check CP the same time every day, since it does shift during the day. I find after my morning shower works best for me.

Question: Vaginal Sensation. It IS what I feel during the day and NOT what I feel from a wipe, correct? Or should I be using a combination?

Baby Fever: Yeah, I go back and forth. Some days it's really bad (we also have a lot of friends who are just having babies or are pregnant, along with coworkers) and I want to say "F-it! We have enough money saved!" Then to snap myself out of it, I think of how my back isn't fixed yet and how much stress a pregnancy would cause it and that grounds me for a bit.

[FSUSammy]

Hey ladies, Quick question. I heard that Vitex can help regulate your cycle. Any of you guys take it??? If so has it helped?

Thanks!
Sam

[stevesbabygirl]

I had a 12 day LP last cycle and I O'd on CD19 this cycle, but I'm only 9DPO, and I'm spotting, so I guess I have a 28 day cycle regardless. Woo hoo, that means that tomorrow starts our first cycle of TTC :D!

[Clattercote]

Baby fever - Yeah, I have that issue occasionally. I think DH has it more than I do, and it may be a bit more pronounced for us because we abstain during fertile periods, so sometimes there's a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG wait. But we feel we've got pretty good reasons to avoid - and yes, in my experience, moving and getting adjusted to a new life and a new person in it (DH) and starting a new job definitely pushed those feelings to the back burner. They are starting to come back again, but now, the fact that we know TTA is not indefinite helps us out -

ETA: Raven - I think of vag sensation as what it feels like when I'm walking around, plus what the feeling is when I use TP. The focus is on how it feels, without touching with hands. So, if it's difficult to wipe, feels scratchy, I call that "dry". If it's neither really dry nor really wet, as in not hard to wipe but not really wet either, I call that "smooth" - If it's feeling really slippery, really wet, TP goes ridiculously easily, you feel like the vagina is swimming, that's wet.

[JubileeDawning]

Am I normal? While I've been on the Pill, AF has been getting lighter and lighter, until it's almost like I just spotted a couple of days, I didn't even need to use a tampon. I started my first day of charting based on the first day of spotting (brownish and clumpy, like the other posts), because that's all I've done in the past few months in way of AF... is this ok?! Thanks!!

[Janey]

I'm so impressed by those of you who abstain during fertile times (and Marieke - yay for waiting until marriage!!). I just get soooo crabby if I go 4 days. A lot of times I don't even realize that's what's going on, but then all of a sudden I start comparing the jaw ache/crabbiness days with the little heart on the Ovusoft chart and I go, "Ohhhhhhh." :rolleyes: I realize it is for religious reasons, and I think that's wonderful. BTW - I am loving this influx of so many smart religious women in this thread. I don't think I ever said welcome to Jubilee - so welcome! And Clattercote, I didn't know that you had a doctorate in theology! That's awesome. :D


Well, I have an update. Last night, B and I talked about "pulling the goalie" again. A friend of ours is getting married on May 20th in FL, and I am a bridesmaid. I joked, "Well, I won't bring condoms if you won't!" And he made a face like this :D, and said, "Wow... that's like... making a commitment!!" It would be so romantic to make a baby on our little mini vacation to the other side of the country, but it looks like i'm going to be too far pre-o for that to happen. Since we're getting so close to our TTC date, I can pretty closely predict where I will be ovulating over the next two months. It looks like, assuming I ovulate on CD18/19, which has been the pattern the past few months, that I will ovulate at approximately May 1/2, and then again on about May 31/June 1.

We've decided to go for it the May 31/June 1 o-date. That's only 6 weeks away. Anybody mind if I make this face for a minute? :eek:

(We need some FLOORING upstairs!!)


ETA - Jubilee, I'd think that is okay, if that's what's normal for you. But, I'm interested to hear from the Experts in this thread. :)

[Clattercote]

MrsHill - That's really great! I'm looking forward to nine (ack) months from now when we'll hopefully be saying the same thing... I'll be looking forward to hearing what happens - About the mini-vaca, sounds romantic, and you never know, your body might actually not do its "normal" thing ;)

Jubilee - Like MrsHill said, yes that's normal - and if that's been normal AF for you for the past several months then go ahead and count it as CD 1 on this chart. After a while, it'll be the bright red flow you're looking for, but for at least this cycle and possibly the next one or two (since we don't know how your body will react specifically), count the brown stuff -

[SQ2]

This morning I woke up and realized I'd been sleeping with my mouth wide open. I don't think I usually do that. I'm wondering if that can have an affect on temps. Do you think my temp would be lower than usual because of the air going in my mouth?

* * *

So, I'm 10DPO. My past two cycles charting AF has arrived at 11DPO. We'll see what happens tomorrow I guess. That would be cool if it stayed consistent like that. Although it would be nice if my LP would lengthen a bit. Is 10 days too short?

[kemaji]

Sam -- I've used Vitex in the past and it has helped regulate my LP somewhat. I haven't used it as regularly as I should to lengthen my LP, but when I do use it, I notice a difference.

With regards to baby fever, while I want them someday, I'm not itching to get started immediately. I'm actually probably leaning the other way, having my life change that much that quickly seems so overwhelming, that I joke about waiting longer. That might change as our planned TTC date approaches, though. We're planning on TTC the summer of 2007.

[raven077]

Clattercote, Thank you.. that's pretty much what I was going on, but confirmation is always good for newbies. ;)

[TheMarieke]

SQ2, my temps were all over the place when I temped orally because I'm a mouth-breather. It can DEFINITELY affect your charts!!

[honeygirl]

SQ2 - I have allergies and sometimes I sleep w/my mouth open, sometimes not. What I do: after my alarm goes off I close my mouth and wait a couple minutes before temping. Or I temp once, then again right away. Usually the temp jumps up the 2nd time, b/c my mouth has been closed for a while by that time. :)

[FSUSammy]

honeygirl - Do you usually temp twice?? I have allergies too and have noticed that I sleep with my mouth open too and the times I've taken my temp twice its gone up a lot the second time but I didn't know which temp to trust. Do you find that the second temp works for you??

[SQ2]

honeygirl That's actually what I did this morning. :) I took my temp again after a few minutes. It went from 97.8 to 97.87. So I kept the higher temp.

[honeygirl]

honeygirl - Do you usually temp twice?? I have allergies too and have noticed that I sleep with my mouth open too and the times I've taken my temp twice its gone up a lot the second time but I didn't know which temp to trust. Do you find that the second temp works for you??

FSUSammy - I temp twice only if I know my mouth hasn't been shut. :) I'd say about 25% of the time. And yes, I find that the second temp is more in line with what I'd expect (ie - the previous day temp).

SQ2 - Glad it worked for you.

Update: I'm 10DPO and I spotted a bit yesterday and today. I'm guessing that the progesterone level isn't high enough at this point in my cycle (the med is only 25mg). I see a new doctor next week (YAY) and am hoping that she'll up my dose for the next cycle. Maybe she'll even know something about spotting. ;) Wouldn't that be a nice change?

[southerner]

MrsHill, I'm happy for you, but I'll miss seeing you in here :(

I have no idea if I sleep w/ my mouth open or shut :o

[FEIrider]

Hi ladies! I've been charting to avoid for a bit over a year now. I'm a lurker in this thread, mainly b/c most of you give such great advice that I never have anything to add! :) I wanted to share this, though.

I recently switched to a new gyno. I had my annual pelvic this morning & she totally impressed me b/c she is pro-charting! When she asked about bc, I told her condoms b/c I was afraid of the possible lecture if I said charting to avoid. (I know...I'm a wimp. But I hate discussing personal stuff like that w/ a stranger even if she is a dr. And when I tried discussing it w/ my old gyno, he freaked out about me using the "rythm method".) Then, we started talking about my cycles which are erratic at best (that's why I chart..to avoid having to buy EPTs in bulk). She told me b/c of my crazy cycles DH & I need to be extra vigilant about the condoms if we wanted to avoid an unplanned pg. This was the point where she told me to read TCOYF while handing me a leaflet on temping & recommended that I consider it, especially if DH & I didn't want to be extra vigilant! ;) In addition, she wants to make sure I'm actually ovulating & an idea of what my LP is before we start TTC. I didn't have the heart to tell her I already chart (nor did I want to appear a liar:o ), but it made me feel comfortable & more trusting of her as a dr, since I know she sees the value in it.

Maybe you gals all have great gynos & this post is totally lame. However, this doc was so pro-charting & such a stark contrast to my old one, that I thought it was impressive. I feel lucky b/c I just plucked her from my insurance's website..no referal. And I wanted to share w/ someone other than DH b/c he just can't appreciate this!:p :D

[SQ2]

I'm 10DPO and I spotted a bit yesterday and today. I'm guessing that the progesterone level isn't high enough at this point in my cycle What is a healthy length for the LP?

[Clattercote]

Progesterone/LP length - Good length varies depending on the doctor - I'd say many see 10 days and up as good. If you're spotting on 10 DPO, though, that may well indicate progesterone deficiency and you could ask about getting tested.

FEIrider Yay for good gyns! I'd say there's far more out there who pooh pooh the charting thing... so anytime there's a good one, that's fabulous. I think it's really neat she was SUGGESTING charting - I mean, not only does she understand it, but she probably uses it.

[TheMarieke]

FEIrider, I am SO jealous! My dr is wierd about charting (though he's great in every other regard so far) and I think a lot of them are! I hope I find a good one when we move.

About breathing with your mouth open, I posted this a few pages back, but I have allergies and usually sleep with my mouth open and I noticed a HUGE difference in the clarity of my charts when I started temping vaginally. I find it to be incredibly more reliable. It was suggested to me by one of the FF VIP people (when I first started with the VIP trial) to temp vaginally since my charts were so rocky.

Here's one of my rockiest orally temped charts
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a32/Marieke1983/Cycle%20Chart%20Pics/Cycle1Pic.jpg

Compared to a vaginally temped chart
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a32/Marieke1983/Cycle%20Chart%20Pics/Cycle1806Pic.jpg

It's like night and day! And it's not as wierd to temp vaginally as you might think.

(by the way, does anyone else temp vaginally? or am I the only freak who does? :D)

PS: I don't know if I can post pics or not. If I'm not supposed to, I'll take out the image code and just leave the link.

[Janey]

Marieke - posting pics is fine! :) I think the board limits you to like six per post, and they include smileys in that though, so if you ever get the error, you'll know what that is!

Re: LP Length - I've read/heard 10+ days is good, too.

Southerner - for some reason, I don't want to move to the TTC with Charting thread. I don't know why...? I'll be here for another month, in any case.

[southerner]

Southerner - for some reason, I don't want to move to the TTC with Charting thread. I don't know why...? I'll be here for another month, in any case.
Maybe b/c you've established a bond with some of the ladies in here. Everyone is supportive and always quick to help in this thread. Not that it wouldn't be like that in TTC thread, but it's the unknown/next step type of anxiety that might be making you feel that way. I'm just now starting to not feel like a rookie anymore in here and that took awhile ;)

[SQ2]

Okay, gals. I'm confused. :confused: Now it may just be that this is only my 4th cycle of BCPs (3rd charting online) so my cycles are still whacky. But..the past 2 cycles I've had 10 day LPs and AF arrives on 11DPO. The other thing that has happened both times is my temp drops a little at 10DPO and definitely drops more at 11 DPO. This morning it shot up from 97.9 to 98.26 and I'm at 11DPO... ????

[Clattercote]

sq2- LPs are difficult to tell sometimes(whether post BCP or not), because the count is done by temp and sometimes when there's a slow rise or an ambiguous rise, it's difficult to know when the LP began... I think that's possibly the case with this cycle; there's some ambiguous temps that make it a bit more difficult to count the LP. The other possibility is that indeed, your body is lengthening its LPs following BCP use, so you may begin having longer LPs.

I'd probably have used the rule of thumb (or an Art of NFP shaving rule) on the 97.7 temp on CD 40, and started the LP count on CD 42 (the first day at or above the CL) - so by that count you're 9 DPO today. I wouldn't worry about it too much unless you go beyond 14-16 DPO.

[SQ2]

Thanks, clattercote. Ovusoft called my temp shift a "fall-back thermal shift". I wonder how the program decides when it should use the rule of thumb or not? (i.e. it did on CD35).

[JubileeDawning]

I know there's a comparison post on the first page of the software, but I want personal opinions. I'm sure it's already been asked before, but I can't find it either!! :D So, I'm just going to ask.

As far as software goes- I've started with FF, and it's ok. I don't mind it. I keep a paper chart with all the little details on it. However, I like the look of OvuSoft, and it looks like you can do a whole lot more on it. For you gals who use OvuSoft- would you reccommend it? Should I keep with the free stuff? Is it worth the money? Or is it just a fun toy to play with? I'd really appreciate your thoughts! Thanks!

-Melissa

[southerner]

JubileeDawning,This thread (http://www.constantchatter.com/showthread.php?t=6229) has some good info in it. The free FF is sufficent for me, but it's not alot of money if you want and/or need the extra features.

[FSUSammy]

JubileeDawning - I use both, as you can see by my sig. I do like Ovusoft because you can easily go from one chart to the next and it will adjust your temp if you were to wake up later. It also gives you a cool reminder when daylight savings happens so that you have the least effect on your temp. I saw it this way. For the amount that Ovusoft costs it was like buying a pack of BCPs so really it was worth it for me. Regardless I still stick with my paper charts because I don't trust FF OR Ovusoft to tell me exactly what's up with my body.

Sam

[TheMarieke]

I am thinking I'm going to buy Ovusoft, because I like some of the features and the additional stuff that the free version of FF has isn't really that important to me. I will probably use both.

[JubileeDawning]

Southerner- thanks for the link to the thread! I've got a lot to think about! I know it's not that expensive to go ahead and get OvuSoft... but we're some poor grad students! i just want to make the best decision.

TheMarieke- if you get it, let me know how you like it! :D

I'll hopefully make up my mind soon. Thanks again for the help.

[raven077]

I just went ahead and bought the version of OvuSoft. With the disc (and probably with the free download) you get a discount so it was only $30/yr. I liked the look of it.. IMO it's design is more advanced than FF, and less expensive. What i DON'T like is that it's not web-based and I have to go to DH's PC to use it. They need a Mac version. :rolleyes: But I like the reinforcement of the Programs to see if they back up what I'm thinking/seeing on my paper chart.

[JubileeDawning]

I did all the things youre not supposed to do to get an accurate temperature last night.. I got up about 5 AM feeling sickish, and stayed up for a while, and then the alarm went off, but i slept through it, and when i realized it was going off, i got up, turned it off, reset it for a little later (I worked 12 hours yesterday waiting tables non stop... I was TIRED!) and took a drink of water, and took my temp when the alarm went off 30 minutes later. So, I didn't sleep 3 hours, I got up and drank water before.. all this to say that my temp was only .1 degree more than normal... so for some people i guess it doesnt really matter! I was amazed, just wanted to share. :D

[ADSigMel]

I think FF may have lied about my O after all. Maybe those high temps really were a fever, and the spotting was just random spotting, and the CM dry-up was just because I'm weird and my reproductive system wishes it had been assigned to someone else.

Or maybe AF will arrive later today or tomorrow, and then I will be happy and smile a lot.

I'm just worried because, although my temps haven't dropped below the CL, they've gotten pretty close, and they're not as much above my pre-O temps as usual (when I do actually ovulate).

[honeygirl]

Sorry AdSigMel, I hope that your cycle ends soon!

I am on CD2 and for the most part my last cycle was predictable and uneventful! Yay. I see my new gyn this week. Does anyone have any advice of things I should ask? I plan on bringing in my charts and asking about taking progesterone at a higher dose. I think that my LP may be short on the short side, as the last two cycles were only 10/11 days.

http://www.tcoyf.com/forum/chart.asp?id=honeygirl

http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/ee424

We were supposed to start TTC this cycle, but DH is having cold feet. For now I will hang around here until we (he) figures out what we're doing.

[Clattercote]

AdSigMel - Hmmm - it's difficult to say because this is a pretty ambiguous chart -

By CM, spotting, and temp shift you could say you did O around when FF said (I'd put you at 12 DPO if we go with this hypothesis; a bit later than FF) Lower temps are sometimes possible, especially if there are progesterone issues - if the temps don't go below the CL you're generally considered fine, but in this scenario, there would probably be more high temps than you're seeing now.

But another way to read the temperatures is to say you haven't O'd yet and the temp shift was a fluke caused by fever, as you've suggested - and I think you could interpret the chart that way. In fact, that may be the better way to interpret the chart, given the lower temps you've had lately. Like I said in an earlier post, I think it would be VERY rare to see prolonged low temps just before AF - low temps for several days with no confirmed shift (even if some spike temps) would indicate impending O, even if there's a bleed in the middle of the low temps (breakthrough bleeding, not AF). So with the lower temps here, I'd go with this second option.

I hate to say it, but this is a wait'n'see thing and at the moment, I'm voting for waiting for O, rather than waiting for AF. But I do think it could be either one. Hope the cycle ends soon! :confused:

Honeygirl - If you noticed spotting on the 10th or 11th days of the LP, definitely ask about increased dosage of the progesterone.

[JubileeDawning]

My temps are doing weird things- or so it seems to me. I'm on CD7- and my first 4 temps were 97.1-97.2... but for the past 3 days, my temp has been slowly rising.. from 97.3 to 97.5 to this morning 97.6. Since this is my first cycle charting, I don't know if this is normal...

I had a scare in church on Sunday- we have been interviewing to be the youth ministers and we had an hour long Q&A time infront of the whole church, and I passed out at the end. Not sure why- I'm a theatre major so I wasn't nervous, didn't lock my knees- I just got hot I think without much on my stomach. Anyways- everyone at the church kept asking if I was pregnant, and the the temperature rise... it's got me a little (probably with no cause for concern) worried.

Thanks for the input, let me know what you think.

[Janey]

Jubilee - I don't think you're pregnant. 97.6 is a very normal pre-o temp, and CD7 is really early to O. You were probably low blood sugar & hot. I think anything over 98 is a normal post-o temp.

[Clattercote]

jubilee - The question I ask in relation to pg is: Have you seen sustained higher temps for 16 days or more? That's the only time I usually suspect pg - fainting, especially if it's hot, or you haven't had much to eat, does not necessarily make me think pg.

There should be a range (unique to each woman) that counts as pre O temps and post O temps. My pre O is anything from 96.5-97.2 and my post O is 97.4 to 97.9. So it just really depends - once you've charted for a while, you'll get a sense. It doesn't sound like you're seeing higher temps for a sustained amount of time yet.

[JubileeDawning]

MrsHill and Clattercote- Thanks for the replies... I don't mean to sound like an idiot... Sorry! I know in my head all the things you said, it's just when irrational fears strike, they're hard to shake. Thanks for the reassurance!

[Janey]

Jubilee - We have no idiots here! You're doing great. :)

[motray36]

jubilee I echo what MrsHill says - there are no idiots here! Believe me, if you counted the number of times I had "oh my gosh....my boob hurts/I have a cramp/I'm dizzy/ my pants don't fit.....I might be pregnant!" moments, you'd be astounded! My only advice is to not freak out to the point where you waste money on HPT's until you have 16 high temps :)

[Janey]

Oh yes - I was nervous all last month because (TMI incoming) we waited a little too long for the raincoat twice during my fertile time. Not that we finished without a barrier, but you know... there's still leakage... so of course it was down to the wire and my LP was 12 days last month (I vary between 11/12) and I turned to B and said, "If I don't get my period tomorrow, I think we might be in trouble."

Course, the next morning, I took my temperature and it had plummetted and I made this face: :D No Christmas Babies for me! My due date would've been 12/23... poor kid.

Anyway, Jubilee, it happens to all of us. No idiots here!!

[akacharlotte]

Question for all:

How long do the batteries last in your thermometers? I'm asking because I've had a steady temp of 96.8 since the 16th with only 3 days of a varying temp. I CD 21 and no sign of O.

[motray36]

I had my first thermometer for about a year and a half, and just got a new one because when I was sick, my temperature was reading 95.5....which could not be right. I would have just replaced the battery, but I found one that doesn't beep every second, so I just got a new one.

[FSUSammy]

JubileeDawning - Ditto what the other girls said!! Last month I had a PG scare too. AF was taking forever to show up yet my temps were too low, turns out I was anovulatory that cycle.

akacharlotte - Have you tested your therm by temping at night just to make sure its giving you another temp???

Sam

[ADSigMel]

LOL, I have a pg scare just about every cycle, since my cycles are so long and I always talk myself into thinking that I had an O but I didn't recognize it.

I'm about ready to talk myself into having another one right about now, since (according to FF) I'm 15 DPO, which is just way too long for me (I'm usually 12/13 days), and there's no sign of AF. But I'm pretty sure I just haven't ovulated yet and I'm having another cycle like the last one, where I had all the signs of O, but AF never showed up, the temps dropped, and the cycle lasted for another two months and ended up being annoulatory. *sigh* NFP is not really being a very good friend of mine. We haven't really been scheduling our baby-dancing around my fertile times, since, if we did, we would only have about two weeks of DTD time every few months. :rolleyes: If I ever do O, I'll probably be an anti-grad, since we never really know when to expect it.

[raven077]

Batteries: I had an issue already. I bought mine in the beginning of March, and just last week saw the little empty battery symbol. I pulled out my regular BD thermometer to verify the temp. But since that day, my temps with the BD Basal have seemed right on target, and it's still plugging away. But it makes me wonder what happened/what's going on.

Edit to say that I DO turn it off after each use.

[Clattercote]

Jubilee There are no idiots here! We're all learning this together! I've definitely had my share of confusion/might I be pg moments. Like others have said, I do try to just wait till I've seen at least 16 high temps before freaking out - it's never happened (the 16 temps that is; I freak out about all kinds of things ;) )

batteries I think they're supposed to last three years at least - but it's always possible that you get a thermy with a low battery from the get go. You can check by taking the temp during the day as well.

[Clattercote]

AdSigMel - Yeah, I don't think there's an O there - the temps are just pretty darned low and staying low.

Remind me again if you've had your charts checked by a doc? Or if you're taking vitamins or similar? It might be time for that kind of thing...

[SQ2]

Well, after a