When you are considering going back to/are already in graduate school...

[kalogrias]

This was inspired by the "When your husband is in grad school" thread :) I am thinking about going back to Law School, and DH and I have had some interesting conversations about it. I think it would be good to have a support group for those of us who are in grad school (with or without DH/FH/BF being there as well), and those of us considering going back.

With me, it took my DH a while to warm up to the idea of Law School. Both he and I already have our Masters, so his attitude trajectory went like this: 1. You already have an advanced degree. Why do you want another one? (Mind you, law and what I studied have very little in common) 2. It's expensive, and I might want to go back to school, too (to which my response was, "Why do you get to go back again if I don't?" He got that and quietened down) 3. You won't have time for me anymore. Relationships in law school almost always break up (never seen convincing stats for this, but I guess it could be true) 4. Will you let me sit with you while you do your homework? 5. I think that if it's what you want, you should do it. 6. It's an interesting idea, go for it.

It took us about 6 months to get to #6, most of which really frustrated me. In time, though, I started to realize that he was just feeling threatened by two things -- 1. that he felt that he wouldn't be able to do what he wanted to eventually do because I was going to do what I wanted to do (not that this was fair to me), and 2. he was afraid of somehow losing me to school (again, since both of us are work-a-holics generally). Once I saw that, I was able to tell him that I wasn't going to leave him over school, and that though it was probably going to be really tough (assuming I even get in), I would still make the time for him that he needed -- as I always have and always did.

It still frustrates me from time to time that he is being basically selfish about this whole thing without discussing compromise -- if I weren't with him, this is what I would be doing now, a justification that he understands and that makes sense to him (maybe the only one). Now at least he's accepted this as a reality and is willing to be supportive, and, I hope, will step up to the plate in the future. My guess is that he will -- he's just a little tentative about things he doesn't instantly "get".

Is anyone else in a similar situation?

[greenbunny]

I am only one class into my master's, and it is hard. DH is a teacher working on his master's also. His attitude is that his degree is a necessity (teachers need X credits every few years to stay certified) and that mine is not, so he should get to go first.

My degree is being paid for by my job, and the company is on thin ice right now with the bad economy. I don't want to wait for him to be done, only to be laid off and then have to quit the program. I could pay for it myself, I guess, but I won't. While it will help my resume, I only started the degree because it was free.

Both of us going at once wasn't working. It was total chaos, we never had any food in the house and neither of us had time to do laundry, so some days there wasn't any clean underwear. It was that bad.

He finished a few classes a few weeks ago, and I hadn't signed up for summer classes because of the hardship of both of us going. I wanted to take a fall class but now he's saying again that his classes should come first. I really resent it.

[keska]

I just finished law school in May and have been getting my MA at the same time (I have one extra semester to finish it in the fall). DH and I have been married since 2 months before I started. We're fine. Our relationship is stronger than ever. Law school is like running a marathon. It takes a long period of sustained energy. As long as you both have realistic expectations for what it will be like, then your relationship will be OK.

That's not to say that being in school didn't cause some issues. My advice to you both to talk it all out because resentments do come up. DH and I had a difficult time dealing with the issue that I wasn't making any money for 3 years. He'd constantly bring that up whenever we were fighting. Also, he likes to pull the attitude that because he "gave up" three years to do what I want, I owe him a lot. Both these things are legitimate points, but can sometimes lead to guilt and anger. So, if you decide to go, make sure you talk through all the angles first.

ETA - Definitely discuss the debt issue! I'd love to do public interest law, but with 110K of debt hanging over my head and not having worked for 3 years, DH has basically refused. If I was single, I could live on a low salary for a few years and be happy, but being married, there's someone else to consider.

[onomatopoeia]

I'm starting my master's in the fall and we've had disagreements about me going back to school, too.

I got my bachelor's in Creative writing w/ an emphasis on Poetry. I applied for the master's program to get my MFA (Master's in Fine Arts) in Poetry and was accepted.

Dh is worried about me finding a job once my schooling is all done. With an MFA I will be able to teach at a college level. I have always wanted to teach poetry since I can remember. I've always known, since I was 5-6 that I wanted to be a writer. Dh basically told me that he thought my schooling was going to be a waste. It broke my heart. Finally, like you, we got to the point where he agreed with me, but it was a complete headache and it's hard to do something like going back to school when you feel like you're not supported by the man who is supposed to love you.

I like this idea of having a support group for us going thru our master's. It's a great concept.

My program is low residency. So each semester I have to go to a city (about an hour away) and stay for 10 days. Dh of course is a little upset about that since he will be stuck w/ our son but his mom and my mom said they'd help us out during that time.

The rest of the semester work is done by internet and phone so I am hoping it's not too stressful.

[kalogrias]

Greenbunny -- I hear you with the resentment. That's pretty much the way I felt my DH was being -- telling me that his education was more important than mine, and that I'd basically better get in line behind him. Never mind that he still has something like 2-3 year left to go in the military, and couldn't start a program if he wanted to! I think he was just scared of change, but we'll see.

Keska -- thank you for the advice. I will definitely open up talks with him when he gets home about the whole subject. Just so we can get everything out in the open.

Onomatopoeia -- The husband of one of my closest friends just got accepted to an MFA program for poetry :) He starts in the fall. CONGRATS! THe whole program sounds like alot of fun. It is hard to try to go back to school without the support of the man that you love -- and the man that is supposed to support you no matter what! And very frustrating. It just sort of makes me feel sometimes that while I adore my husband, I should have stayed single until I was done with all that I wanted to finish academically. And that's not a good feeling...the layout of your program looks good -- it looks really conduscive to good family time and good "Onomatopoeia time".

[Asha]

i totally understand what you are going through with dh that don't quite understand the advanced degree thing. he is finally ok with it bc he feels that it will be monetarily beneficial in the long run. i just resigned as a school teacher, so holding a phd will enable me to get a job that pays more money. he also likes the idea of me getting a job as a full-time professor bc our future children would have the opportunity to get free tuition.

in the beginning, it was all about him getting his advanced degrees, but in the end he decided he didn't want to continue past a masters degree. this gave me room to pursue mine. my dh also told me that he didn't want me to go for my phd unless i got a scholarship. luckily, i got a scholarship that will cover my tuition costs.

i am worried a little bit about him thinking that i will have an easy work load. he is of the idea that every job is much easier than his. he has clearly stated that he expects that i continue doing almost all of the cooking and cleaning bc he thinks i won't have that much work to do. we will see how that goes. luckily, i won't be working at the same time, and my commute will be less than it was to work, so i may have more time. though, i can see how around midterms and finals, he will have to pitch in with some of that stuff.

i am glad to see that some other husbands are having feelings that my dh is having. i guess its normal.

[bluberry]

I will be going back to school this fall for an MBA. I will be working full-time and pursuing my studies part-time. DH is worried about what little, if any, free time I will have left. Plus there's that whole jealousy issue of "well I wanna do it right now too!" even though he only mentioned this about a month ago whereas I have been researching this for over a year.

The good news is that although I'm at work for 40 hours a week, I probably only work about 20 of those. Which basically leaves the other 20 for studying instead of surfing the internet as I've been doing.

In my area, MBAs are ridiculously expensive but luckily my company will be footing half the bill. So this seems like a great time to jump on this opportunitiy. BTW, I really like the idea of a support group!

[oceaneast]

Jeff and I have gone rounds over whether I should pursue a law degree. It is such a difficult decision. I'm not 100% but I think what were really debating is what rolls we are to fulfill in this marriage and whether we can have it "all" while I go back to school. I empathize with the difficult choices that need to be made.

[boilermaker]

I already have my master's degree but I wanted to come in and give you all some support. I did mine at night after work and it took me 3.5 years (and I did not have to do a thesis for my degree). It is hard. Your social life will suffer. Your husband may actually have to do his own laundry and eat cereal for dinner. But it is doable and I hope that all of you who want to take this next step get the support that you need! Good Luck!

[kalogrias]

I love having this support group :) I just wanted to say that.

[MrsSmith]

Hey ladies,

I'm in grad school right now. I'll be done in December. It is difficult. I've worked most of the time, full time at that. It's a challenge, but the key for me has been communicating with hubby. If I'm swamped with homework and stressed out about life in general, no I'm not going to fix your plate and the laundry might pile up a little more than usual. But if I don't tell you ahead of time that I'm having a bad day, it's not fair to expect you to know it. My hubby has been supportive in that way. He understands that this is something that I really want, and it's temporary. So, he cooks sometimes and helps out however he can because he knows that mentally, I just can't take too much more.

Hope I helped!

[strwbrygirl]

Right now I'm anxiously awaiting my responses from two graduate schools... a positive response from either one of them will mean that we'll be moving across the country in August. My DH has been incredibly supportive so far, but over this past weekend we hit a possible snag. It's possible that I won't hear from either school until after August 1st (the deadline for one is actually August 1st, so I'm not holding my breath) even though all of my stuff was submitted back in May. My DH is a teacher, and if we don't hear from one of the schools soon, may not be able to find a job in a new city for fall 2005 (and we're still trying to find out about getting out of his contract here as well). If he can't get a job in either of the two cities where I applied, well, he may not go with me. We've done long distance before, during undergrad, and it was NOT fun, and I'm in no hurry to do it again. However, DH's point was that if he can't find a teaching job in either Washington DC or Boston (the two cities), it won't make financial sense for him to leave his (stable) job here (a city with much lower cost of living) to go to either of those high-priced places and sub. He's right, but I am so worried... and it might not even happen.

[Ummm]

i'm working f/t, and thinking going to school p/t (company will cover most fees), while having a side photography biz!!

luckily tho FH is very supportive. i just hope i'll be able to balance life and work/study/biz!!

[neatgrlie]

I'm just about ready to begin my third year in grad school. At the end of (hopefully) 5 years I'll have my PhD in Industrial & Org. Psychology. My husband starts an MFA program for creative non-fiction in the fall.

While grad school in and of its self can be a very trying experience, equally difficult for us is the fact that we'll be apart for the full 5 years that I'm here. We both ended up getting into top ranked programs with full-funding and felt that we couldn't pass up the opportunity to get educations that will have such an impact on our future. While we've delt with some pretty serious issues since being apart, neither of us regrets the decision, and we look forward to what our eventual life together will hold.

Now we just have to both find jobs that are in the same time zone....

[strwbrygirl]

I'm hoping that one of you has a good suggestion here, because this is stressing me out. I was just notified by one of the schools where I applied that they haven't received my third letter of recommendation. So, I called the other school where I applied- and nope, they haven't received the third letter either. I've emailed the professor, with no response yet... but I also emailed her about 1.5 weeks ago, with a gentle nudge (ie: "do you need anything else from me to complete the letters?") with no reply. What should I do? This prof has written letters for me previously, and has been great about communication, so I'm pretty worried because now the deadline for school #1 has passed (it was July 1st) and the deadline for school #2 is Aug. 1st. All of my other letters, application, statement of intent, etc has been received by both schools.

Thoughts??

ETA: Cross-posting on Chit-chat, where more people will hopefully see this.

[Aimee]

I just want to echo the suggestion that if you're not 100% sure about being a lawyer to think long and hard about law school.

Being a 1L is an awful thing. You're working all the time. And if you're not working, you're thinking about working. It's extremely stressful. And, socially, it's like being in 7th grade again - you're with the same people all day, every day. I can't imagine what it would be like to be married through that and have "grownup" responsibilities.

I got married between my second and third year of laws school. It wasn't so bad because I wasn't working and had time to do stuff at home. But when finals came around, DH was the one taking out the trash, doing the dishes, the laundry, cooking dinner...he took over while I was a study-robot.

Right now, I'm studying for the bar exam (less than 2 weeks! Yikes :eek: ) and DH has taken over everything in the house for the most part. I'm very lucky that my guy is extremely domestic and doesn't mind doing this at all. But I feel enormous guilt of abdicating my duties around the house. And it's been stressful to be on one income. Even when I'm working part-time, it's not that much money.

And when it all comes down to it, you have to decide if being a lawyer is worth it. Law is boring. It's long hours. There is the potential to make lots of money, but there will invariably be a quality of life tradeoff.

I don't regret getting the degree, but I haven't been happy with law. But, now, I'm kind of stuck with it. I'm lucky I have next to no student loans, so I can afford to take something lower stress, but I couldn't imagine getting out with 100K+ in debt AND hating my career.

Just my .02 and experiences. Good luck with whatever you decide

[kalogrias]

Strwbrygirl -- Can you call/go see your prof? Is there someone at the school that you know and trust who could go and track her/him down for you? Maybe there's something going on in your profs. personal life and things aren't getting done right now -- if so, you should know (well, s/he should have told you).

Yay for our support group!

I've been reading with great interest all the responses about law school and actual law. I don't think that I want to be a lawyer; I just want the education. Does that make any sense? Right now, in my work in the Civil Rights field, there have been countless times that I wished I had a law background, just so that I knew what I was talking about when I was answering discrimination complaints or hate crime filings. I'm thinking that I'd like to work for the government or for an NGO...of course, I have no idea how I'll re-pay my debt, but thats another matter altogether...am I crazy to do this? I'm starting to think I might be...

[paiger]

However, DH's point was that if he can't find a teaching job in either Washington DC or Boston (the two cities), it won't make financial sense for him to leave his (stable) job here (a city with much lower cost of living) to go to either of those high-priced places and sub. He's right, but I am so worried... and it might not even happen.
strwbrygirl i just wanted to let you know that the people that moved in across from us are in the EXACT same situation except reverse. she is currently still living in PA until she can get a job down here. i think long distance when you are married is different (we were LD for a long time pre-marriage). they are doing okay, and they have been married 7 years. i know it isn't the same, but i wanted to offer some encouragement.

has he started applying in both places? i did that when we were trying to decide where DH was going to grad school. i didn't know where i was going, so i applied for jobs in like 5 different cities!!

[laurenc]

I'm sort of in a similar situation, sort of not...

I'm in a clinical psychology PhD program and my husband is an electrical engineer. As college seniors, we both applied to grad schools, but he also applied to for various engineering jobs. He wasn't satisfied with his job offers and decided to go to grad school at the same school I'd picked... until an eleventh-hour job offer came through that was too good to be true. He turned down grad school, took the job, and sure enough, three months later the company tanked (think dot-com bust). The school year had already started so it wasn't like he could try and weasel his way back into his grad program... so he picked up another job and has been working with them for the past 5 years.

I'm now in my 6th year of my grad work and I've had a very difficult time getting through the program for a variety of reasons. I have to finish my dissertation and go on an internship, and I should be done in June of 2007. Some of Tom's coworkers have left the company to pursue PhD programs, and Tom has entertained thoughts about going through the application process again. Problem is, we now own a home and would like to have children soon. Once I'm done and have a job, I'll be lucky to have an income that's 50% of what he currently makes! We can't afford for him to just... not work. Not right now, not where we live...

And, even more of a problem, Tom doesn't really know what he wants to DO with a PhD. He doesn't want to go into academia, and he doesn't know if it would really make him a more attractive candidate for an industry job. It's more of a peer pressure sort of thing. And because he's so directionless with this urge, I could totally see him going into some basement lab and tinkering around for a decade... I've suggested for him to go to business school (there are programs that are designed for engineers) because I feel it's a time-limited program, and so what if we have to pay (all but one year of my education has been covered by scholarships, so we've not had to put out much cash for my program). But he says no, not interested...

My grad school experience has been very very stressful for the both of us. I don't understand how he could watch me go through my program, see me cry myself to sleep so many nights because of my academic woes, and then decide that he'd like to do the same thing. Plus I feel like he had his chance to pursue a PhD five and a half years ago, but instead opted to chase the big bucks. For him to go back to grad school -- for a degree that he's not even sure he really wants -- would mean we'd have to sell our house and put off plans to have kids. Selling the house would be hard, but I could do it -- delaying having a family would be far more crushing.

So right now I've been very vocal about him staying put with his job. I feel bad, but I also feel it's the responsible thing for him to do. I've sacrificed a lot to get through my program and I am almost done, and I feel like my reward is to get to have the two of us lead normal non-student lives for awhile. It's a bit selfish, but it's like... until he is more certain about what he wants to do, then I need to be selfish.

So yeah... that's my two cents, don't spend it all in one place ;)

[Brandles]

I am thinking about going into the field of aquatic biology.

[linekelei]

kalogrias- If you don't want to practice law, I highly recommend you don't go to law school. Most law schools are all theoretical-they don't teach you how to be a lawyer-that's what you learn on the job. Rather, it's all a bunch of case reading and summarizing, day in and day out, with one big hypotethical case for your final. Some law schools are slightly more practical, but most of them are just hypothetical. And specific courses for your area of interest might be lacking in good information, as the course tends to depend on whatever the professor wants to teach. Or at least that was my experience. And like someone else said, law school is a huge investment, both financially and emotionally. If I weren't going to practice law I never would have dreamed about going to law school. Anyway, just my two cents. I posted in your other thread about how much I hate my job, so I'm sure you saw that. ;) So take this all with a grain of salt, as I am seriously disgruntled with my position, though stuck with it thanks to my $100,000 in law school loans. Yes, I'm one of those. Good luck in your decision, regardless of what you decide.

[MrsSmith]

Ladies...I'm at it again...Today was one of those days when I want to be a professor. I mean, today I knew definitely that was what I wanted to pursue. Part of me does not want to go back to school when I finish this degree. I also have so many personal goals that will have to be put on hold because of the continued lack of income on my part. Being a full time professor would be so wonderful. I love learning and information and sharing it with others. I think that I would be good at it also. I gave a presentation in my class tonight. The professor pulled me aside after class and said that I have the best presentation skills he's ever seen. He said I have a way of commanding an audience, yet making things clear and easy to understand. But this trip to grad school has not been easy for me. It's been a challenge, mainly because I was working most of the time and couldn't commit fully, like I wanted to. If I went for the Ph.D., it'd have to be full time and I would probably work for a professor part time for funding and research purposes. I'm not even sure why I'm rattling on. I'm just confused and it's late and I don't know what my next step is. I graduate in December. So, if I want to be considered for a Ph.D. program what should I do in the mean time? I haven't been published, because I haven't been thinking about it. I don't know what to do. I'm also not able to relocate because of hubby's job. he makes the money, so we stay here. Plus, we love it here and just bought a house. This is where I'd want to end up anyway. I just don't know what to do...

[Asha]

mrssmith - i don't know if it differs depending on the program, but i have never heard of having to be published to get into a phd program. i am sure that would give you an extra edge, but is not necessary. i got into a phd program,and i am not published. like you, we could not relocate, so i only applied to programs in my area only 3. luckily, i got into one of them. btw, if you have not taken your gre's yet, i reccomend you start studying for them.

[Asha]

laurenc - i completely understand you. my husband had just about a year left until he could finish up with his phd. well, he decided he would rather make more money like your husband. now, he is saying that he wants to go back to school. i told him i wasn't happy bc he constantly is changing what he wants. he does not have the time to do this, and we cannot afford the expense since i quit my job to pursue a phd full time. i feel like he gave up his chance for now. right now, it is my turn to pursue what i have consistently wanted, and he can consider more schooling once i am fully employed again.

[MrsSmith]

I'm not sure if I HAVE to be published. I just know that it helps your chances. So, that's why I'm thinking that I would like to. I'll apply to the schools around here and see what happens. I haven't taken the GRE. I had to take the GMAT to get into my current program though. So, I'm ready for the studying.

[Reenie]

I am taking the GRE on August 24, and I am super nervous. I think that I am reasonably intelligent, but I do not test very well. When I went to take my state certification tests for teaching, I vomited. :(

Anyway, provided that I do well on the GRE and get accepted to grad school...
I am pretty sure that I want to get an M.A. in literature. I know that a lot of people think that I should go for the M.Ed., but I don't feel that strongly about it, and I really feel that I could learn and grow much more in the M.A. programs.

Regarding school and marriage, my DH is in school for his undergrad now (math & physics), and his anticipated graduation is May 2007. He plans on going straight through for a one-year accelerated master's program, MBA, with projected graduation date of May 2008. If I get into my program, I would start Fall 2006, and I could hopefully finished May 2008 as well. We know that it will be stressful, but we have agreed that this is something that we should do before having children and although we really want children now, we think that it would be an entirely different ballpark regarding stress if we were trying to complete these degrees and raise children.

[greenbunny]

We just found out that DH did not get accepted for the state grant for ESOL teachers. We are dumbfounded because it is supposedly decided based on percentages, and his district has the second-highest amount of native Spanish speakers in the state. He is looking into it, but it seems that they gave priority to English teachers rather than math and science teachers.

We cannot afford to pay for this program ourselves, and he was only doing it because the school is basically forcing him to teach ESOL classes. It isn't what he loves to do. It would be a set back of a couple years to start over with a new type of degree. At this point he's not sure what his options are, but nothing is looking all that promising.

[Vishenka69]

I've been thinking about going back to grad school a lot in the past 5 years (since finishing undergrad) but with DH in med school and now residency, and me not really knowing what I want, I'm still thinking. The most logical choice for me would be MBA but I really don't want to. I'm pretty sure I'd be happy being a college professor and has been toying with an idea of doing Ph.D. in Russian Lit (one of my undergrad majors). Right now I'm waiting for DH to finish his training. Partly because it will be much easier financially and partly because we may have to move and we may not live close enough to a major university that offers that program. I think if we stay close to my alma mater I have pretty good chances of getting in but we'll see.